The Kevin Sheehan Show - Will Washington Draft WR?

Episode Date: April 3, 2024

Kevin opened the show with some Commanders' sound from the first day of the offseason workout program. You'll hear Sam Cosmi and Terry McLaurin on the show and you'll hear Kevin discuss whether or not Washington will draft a WR in the first three rounds of the draft later this month. Kevin also had some help in solving the "did Brian Kelly let something slip on Jayden Daniels" last week case. John Ourand/Puck News jumped on to talk about the incredible ratings for the Iowa-LSU game on Monday night and how big of a TV ratings needle-mover Caitlin Clark has become.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey guys, I'm really pleased to have a new sponsor to the podcast. Prize picks is the largest daily fantasy sports platform in North America. They're the easiest and the most exciting way to play DFS. It's just you against the numbers rather than you battling thousands of other players, including pros and sharks. Football season's over, but Hoops Action is heating up, whether it's tournament season right through the end of this month or the fight for playoff home court advantage heading. into the postseason, there's no shortage of high-stakes basketball moments this time of year. Get in on the excitement with prize picks, America's number one fantasy sports app where you can turn your hoops knowledge into serious cash. Download the app today and use code Sheehan, S-H-E-E-H-A-N for a first deposit match of up to $100. You don't want it. You don't need it, but you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin She and Joe, here's Kevin. You know, it's kind of like some people would say it's like you kind of went to a new team.

That's the, that's the feel right now. You knew everything. I mean, we just had our new owner last year and a new head coach. Half the locker room is basically new. It's like you, like I said, it's like you went to a new team. That was Sam Cosmy earlier today out in Ashburn. Washington began their off-season workout program. He wasn't the only one to speak.

There were others as well. Duran Payne spoke. Tressway spoke. So did Terry McLaren. And I'm going to have a couple of things that Terry McLaren said. One about number two overall quarterback. And also he had some thoughts on Sam Howells trade to Seattle. But all of them talked about it feeling like a new team when they showed up today in Ashburn.

Yeah, it feels like a new day, I think, for all of us. You know, this is the first real Josh Harris ownership era team with a new general manager, a new coach, new coaching staff, new players, and less than a month from today, three weeks from tomorrow, a new quarterback, more likely than not. The show's presenting sponsor, as always, is Windonation. Call them at 86690 Nation, or head to Windonation.com. for a free no obligation in-home estimate.

One guest on the show today, John Orand is one of the best when it comes to sports and business, sports and TV. He will jump on with us to talk about the biggest needle mover in sports right now, Caitlin Clark, 12.3 million people watched the game Monday night between Iowa and LSU. It was the most watched college basketball game ever on a, ESPN. Men's or women's. Amazing. John Orand coming up on the show today. I wanted to start with the big trade in the

NFL today. Stefan Diggs got dealt to Houston. Man, Houston is putting together a team for C.J. Stroud. The benefit of the rookie quarterback contract. Remember when Philadelphia with Jalen Hertz traded for A.J. Brown, somewhat similar here. Big contract for Stefan Diggs. Doesn't matter. CJ Strouds on his rookie deal at quarterback. You can afford to make that trade. What was a bit surprising, I think, to many, was what Houston had to give up to get Stefan Diggs. A second round pick next year, not this year. And with Diggs, they got back a fifth and a sixth round pick from Buffalo. There's another aspect to this trade that is really quite remarkable, and that is this.

Buffalo traded Stefan Diggs today, and they are going to take a $31 million salary cap hit to do it, with right now a wide receiver group in Buffalo that will be led by Curtis Samuel. Remember, Gabe Davis left during free agency. Now Diggs is gone. Certainly Buffalo will be drafting a wide receiver. They don't select until late in the first round. They have number 28 in the first round. But this is a big-time wide receiver draft,

and there are going to be some wide receivers available. You know, a Brian Thomas Jr. from LSU, although that might be a bit too late for him. And a Donnie Mitchell from Texas, a Xavier Worthy from Texas. There will be a receiver selected. that I would imagine by the Buffalo Bills at 28. But imagine Stefan Diggs getting traded with Buffalo taking the sixth largest salary cap penalty hit in NFL history.

We've seen some big ones recently, right? Russell Wilson, you know, in the trade to Pittsburgh, the big salary cap hit that Denver decided to take. You know, a couple of years ago when Carson Wentz got dealt by Philadelphia to Indianapolis, It was at that time the largest salary cap hit ever. I think it was $33 million. This is now the sixth largest. And it just goes to show you that eventually even great players can wear out their welcome. And Stefan Diggs, I can't speak to a level of specific expertise here.

But as a fan like all of you are, he wore out his welcome in Minnesota, got traded after two highly productive. seasons. Well, he had five in total with Minnesota, but the most productive seasons came when Kirk Cousins got there, where he had his first thousand-yard reception seasons. And then four years with Josh Allen, where he had monster seasons. All four seasons, well over 100 catches. All four seasons, well over a thousand yards. Great receivers. Stefan Diggs has been, you know, right there. pushing the elite of the elite. I wouldn't put him in the tier ones, you know, the entire career that he's had, which is now nine seasons in the NFL, but he's been at the top of tier two, and he's probably been in

tier one at various points of his career. But Stefan Diggs has been one of those receivers that probably fits into that diva category and may have a short shelf life. I mean, the fact that Buffalo has nothing. right now at wide receiver and was going to take a $31 million and will take a $31 million salary cap penalty or salary cap dead cap hit to get back basically the equivalent when you add up all of the draft compensation of like a third or a fourth round pick probably like a mid third round pick it's amazing remember in 2022 just two years ago they signed him to a $96 million deal

deal. He's made, according to Warren Sharp, the third most money of any wide receiver in the NFL in NFL history, he's made over $78 million. That was with Buffalo, excuse me, just with Buffalo. The bills paid him over $78 million. Last spring, they gave him $16 million in bonus money before he missed out on his mandatory minicamp appearance. They're getting rid of Stefan Diggs. They are moving on from him because they have had it with him. And who knows, there may be another story or two behind the scenes there. But a big trade in the NFL, man, you look at Houston's roster now, right?

With Diggs, with Mixen added to the backfield. defensively they added DeNeil Hunter in free agency. So imagine next year you got Will Anderson rushing from one side, DeNeil Hunter from the other. They added DeNico Autry from Indianapolis. They added Okuda, Ocuda part of that 2020 draft with Chase Young at the top right after Burrow. Neither one of them turned out to be worth where they were picked. But Houston will be the favorite in the AFC South, no doubt about that.

Jacksonville was kind of the big favorite last year. Jacksonville still has a lot there, and they do have Trevor Lawrence. But Houston, getting the value of being able to move for that big-time trade and big-time contract because they are on a rookie deal with their quarterback. But digs will join, excuse me, Nico Collins, who had a huge year last year, Tank Dell. They've got some ballers. They got the kid Dalton Schultz at tight end. Houston made the playoffs last year, won a playoff game last year before losing in Baltimore. All right, so I wanted to play some Terry McClure for you. This was Terry McClorn. He was asked by Chick Hernandez from Channel 9.

He was asked about, you know, being the veteran, being the wide receiver, team needs a quarterback, has number two overall. Has he added, you know, any of his input to the quarterback decision? Here's what Terry said. Yeah, I haven't really looked at them too closely. I think where we're at in the draft, obviously we'll get the chance if they choose quarterback. We'll get one of the elite guys. So I'm just looking forward to whoever they bring in, kind of help bringing them along. Being going into my six-year, I kind of know the lay of the land and everything

and anything that I can do to help them become acclimated and be a part of our team. I'm going to try to do that. So obviously I don't know. They don't ask me, but my job is when they get here to kind of help bring them along as much as I can because, you know, we'll go as far as the quarterback goes. Terry McLaren, not asked about number two and not willing to advise Adam Peters on what to do at number two. That is not surprising. That is not Terry's style. He is not a member of the diva wide receiver fraternity.

He's the opposite of that. I actually watched his 17-minute presser today. He's so impressive. He's just an impressive young person. And he's a really good wide receiver. But I think they're going to draft a wide receiver. I do. I think they're going to draft a wide receiver in that top 100,

where they have six picks currently. Field Yates thinks so, too. He put out his two-round mock draft today, had them taking Jaden Daniels number two overall. But at number 40 in the second round, he had Washington selecting Keon Coleman, wide receiver Florida State. If you don't know anything about Keon Coleman, he's the best big receiver in the draft. He's 6-4, 6.4 and a half. He is a big contested catch, throw it up to give him an opportunity to come down guy. I don't even know if that's the right kind of receiver.

They don't have a lot of size. I hope they, like Jahan Dotson, by the way. I hope they see in Jahan Dotson what we saw when he was healthy in his rookie year. But Diami Brown's the biggest receiver they have, six one and a half. Mitchell Tinsley's on the roster. Dax Milne is on the roster. Zichias and Crowder are really the slot guys that they have kept and then added in free agency. But I think they're going to draft a receiver. I agree with Field Yates. I think receiver is going to be on the list. I don't know if it'll come early in the second. I think offensive line obviously is going to be a priority, a tackle in particular.

I think they're probably still looking for offensive linemen and perhaps even, you know, some dbs. But I think receiver will be on the list, and I'd be surprised if they get through the first two nights of the draft and haven't added a receiver that's got the potential, you know, and this is a deep wide receiver draft, of stepping in and playing right away. Keon Coleman would be interesting, but it wouldn't surprise me if they take a guy that's even got bigger upside, a guy that they could see becoming their true number one.

Terry McCorn is their true number one right now. I'm not debating that, and he is a true NFL number one. But every year we see these receivers coming to the league, and every year there are a couple of more that are big-time elite potential wide receivers. Terry is very, very, good. He is not elite.

He did say something, though, about Sam Howl. Remember, this time last year, guys like Terry McClorn were raving about Sam Howe. So he was asked by Ben Standing about his reaction to Sam Hal being traded. This is what he said. Yeah, you never,

well, I don't know to say never, but it's always tough seeing, like, someone you build a really good relationship with, go on, and move on in their career, and especially your quarterback, because as a receiver, you want to continue to try to build that chemistry. You know what I mean? That was only our first year playing with one another, and I feel like him and I had our, we made some great plays,

and we had some, you know, room for growth, and I think that comes with any new quarterback receiver relationship. And so, but to see him go in a situation where we'll have a chance to compete and play under a really good quarterback in Gino, and I think he'll really like playing with receivers like, well, throwing the receivers like Lockett and Jackson Smith and Jigba and DK, you know what I mean. So I think he's going in a situation where he have a chance to continue to show that he can play quarterback at a high level in this league, which I still truly believe. And we know this is a business.

And, you know, I think hopefully things work out for both sides. But I always have a lot of respect for Sam how he handled things good and bad last year. And, you know, I think he took a really big step in his career to continue to prove that he can play at a high level. Terry McClurens, still a believer in Sam Howell's future in the NFL. And look, he's right about Seattle's roster. Metcalf, Lockett, Smith Najigba, the running backs, Kenneth Walker the third, Zach Charbonnet. And look, Gino Smith, he got hurt last year a couple times, Drew Lockhart opportunities. Sam Hal may get some opportunities in Seattle.

Remember, it was only a year ago where what we were hearing was Sam Howell's arm strength. That was the big difference maker. And there's no doubt Sam Hal had a bigger arm than Taylor Heineke. But remember, receivers are coming out of their brakes. The ball's right there. D.Bs turn around. The ball's already there. They can't believe it.

You know, there's some comparative environment there with Sam Howell to Taylor Heineke. Taylor Heineke's strength was an arm strength. Sam Hal does have a big arm. Taylor had other strengths, though. It turns out that Taylor's processing speed and his ability to kind of see things. Now, he was a more advanced quarterback, obviously, had been in the league and had been familiar with the systems that Washington was running, having been with Ron and Scott Turner before that at Carolina. maybe Sam will develop better processing speed, develop the ability to kind of see it a little bit faster. But I don't know, I see Sam Hal as a backup quarterback, a good backup quarterback primarily.

I think that his size, the way he plays with his size, is an impact, a negative impact. And one of the reasons he took a lot of sacks at Carolina and one of the reasons he took a lot of sacks in the NFL last year. but, you know, a good offensive line, a good coordinator, a different scheme, lots of quick game. Sam Howe can certainly have some success in the NFL. I just think it'll be more as a backup quarterback primarily. All right. Up next, remember when Brian Kelly said Washington for Washington in talking about Jaden Daniels? Well, there's some context around that.

I'll get to that when we come back right after these words from a few of our sponsors. Hey guys, most of us are interested in our mental and physical well-being to a certain degree. And with that in mind, I'd like to welcome and introduce a new sponsor to the podcast. The new sponsor is Unified Healing, Unified spelled, Uni-F-Y-D- Healing. It doesn't matter if you're a big-time world-class athlete or just a somewhat athletic podcaster like me. We all understand the importance of mental and physical well-being. and proper recovery for top-notch performance. That's why I'm excited that Unified Healing is sponsoring the podcast now.

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Brian Kelly, the head coach of LSU, talked about Jaden Daniels' frame, and he said for Washington at the end of it, as if he knew something or might know something, here's what it sounded like when almost everybody, including yours truly, played the soundbite last week from Brian Kelly. He is going to be so committed to taking care of himself that you're going to have to worry about size or he doesn't weigh enough.

Lamar's done a pretty good job with his size. I think Mahomes I wouldn't consider him a giant because he's going to get the ball out to the playmakers and make plays for Washington. So that's what I heard last week, and that's what I played on the show last week. Many others did as well, and we were all left to wonder,

what does Brian Kelly know? Did he slip? Did he leak out information that he's got that Washington's going to take Jaden Daniels in the draft? Well, you know, context is always important. And many times when you hear a sound bite and you don't hear the question leading into it, the answer may not be what you think it is. And in this case, the answer is not left open for interpretation because Brian Kelly was not leaking or slipping Washington. And how do I know that?

Well, I have to thank Jeremy. Jeremy sent me a link to Chick Hernandez's segment on Channel 9 last night. Chick is the Channel 9 Sportscaster at WUSA TV 9. Chick was the one who asked Brian Kelly the question last week at Jaden Daniels Press Day. Not Presday. Pro Day. So I'm going to let you hear the Chick Hernandez questions, plural. and you'll hear one answer from Brian Kelly.

You'll hear the answer that I just played from Brian Kelly, but it's the initial question from Chick that is the important context in all of this. Here's how it sounded on WUSA Channel 9 last week. There's obviously the very real possibility that your guy could be a Washington commander. If that's the case, and in the NFL, what are they getting? A guy that wins.

I mean, first of all, he's going to put in the time. he's going to be the first one in. He'll be the last to leave. He'll be involved in the community. He's a guy that will be the face of the commanders. When people start talking about him and say, well, it might be slight of size, but you've coached him. Is that an issue at all when he comes to the NFL? Well, look, I think Lamar's done a pretty good job with his size.

I think Mahomes I wouldn't consider him a giant. This is a guy that is a pro this past year in the way he took him. of himself, you're not going to have to worry about him. He is going to be so committed to taking care of himself that you're going to have to worry about size or he doesn't weigh enough because he's going to get the ball out to the playmakers and make plays for Washington. So Chick Hernandez sets up the question by saying there's a real possibility that your guy, Brian Kelly, your guy, Jaden Daniels, could be picked number two by Washington. If he is, what will Washington be getting in Jaden Daniels?

And then Brian Kelly answers the first question and the subsequent question with essentially what Washington will be getting in Jaden Daniels is dot dot dot. Case solved. Thank you, Chick. And sorry, Chick, for not seeing this when it was out there last week. Thank you to Jeremy for sending me that. that is helpful. Context is everything. Look, in today's media, with so many clips out there, often with major national outlets, you kind of assume that the context has been vetted out to a certain degree,

but that can be dangerous. One more thing before we get to John Orand. Washington announced some of the New Jersey numbers for the upcoming season. Marcus Mariotta is going to wear zero. Has any been eight pretty much his entire career. I think he has. Frankie Louvre is going to wear four. Dante Fowler Jr. 6. Jeremy Chin 11. Olamidi, Zekees, 14. I'm not going to go through all of these because they have a lot of new players. Austin Eccler, 30, which has been his number throughout his career. I hope Brian Mitchell is okay with that. What else is important here? Bobby Wagner, 54.

Tyler Beattish, 63, Dorrance Armstrong 92. Anyway, new numbers for a lot of the new players. I got this from Ted earlier this morning. What will Tressway do if they draft your guy, Jaden Daniels? Will he give up number five? Ooh, Tressway's been number five for 10 years, right? I think a decade. Jaden Daniels has only worn number five.

at LSU and at Arizona State. Honestly, I would hope that Jaden Daniels would just say, give me the options that I have available to me. I don't want to take, you know, Tressway's number. He's been here for 10 years, and I'll pick one of the other numbers. I would hope that that would happen. You know, in Atlanta, Kirk Cousins was looking at number eight.

It was, it's being worn by Kyle Pitts in Atlanta. Kyle Pitts offered it up and actually offered it up free of charge, but Kirk was going to pay for a charitable donation. But the NFL has rules where you have to buy up all of the existing jerseys that are out there. So there was like a half million to three quarters of a million dollars worth of Kyle Pitts jerseys that had been manufactured. So Kirk would have had to pay that off to get eight. And he said, nope, you keep eight. I'm going to wear 18. Now, Tressway doesn't have that much I don't think, in jerseys out there in circulation that Jaden Daniels would have to buy up or he'd have to pay him also to give up the number.

I would hope that he would come in and take one of the available numbers. You know, Dwayne Haskins, I think, it wasn't his fault. It was Dan Snyder's fault, you know, and Dwayne, God rest his soul, was a young kid at the time. He had worn number seven. He wanted number seven. And Dan Snyder should have said, I'm sorry, number seven is one of our protected jerseys, Joe Thysman wore it, and he's a Super Bowl champion and one of the greatest quarterbacks to ever play for the franchise. But that's not, you know, Dan Snyder, obviously. And he, you know, gave Dwayne the jersey. I don't think Joe was happy about that. But Dwayne being, you know, young and immature took it. Well, he shouldn't have taken it, you know. He shouldn't have been offered it, but he shouldn't have taken it. Now, if Jaden Daniels comes in and Tressaway offers it up and offers it up for a reasonable price, and Jaden Daniels says, okay, I'm not going to hold it against him, but I don't think he should come in and ask for it.

Tressaway, it's not like the number five has been worn by a guy that hasn't been very good and has only been here for a year or two. By the way, why am I doing this? They haven't drafted him yet. I'm just, I was curious with the tweet that Ted sent me, and I was considering what the best course of action for Jaden Daniels would be, but he may not even be a Washington commander. Brian Kelly certainly isn't sure that he's going to be a Washington commander. All right. John Oran next, right after these words, from a few of our sponsors. Hey guys, the elite eights are over and the final fours are set in both the men's and the women's tournament.

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bonus on your initial deposit. MyBooky.ag promo code, Kevin D.C. for all of your March betting needs. All right now is our friend, John Oran, John, one of the preeminent sports business writers in America. He's now with Puck.

You can read all of John's stuff by going to Puck. dot news. And of course, you can follow John on Twitter at Orand, O-U-R-A-N-D-D-U-R-A-N-D-U-U-R-A-N-D-U-U-U-R-A-N-D-U-U-N-U-U-N-U-N-U-N-N-U-W. But I, you know, often before I have a guest on, I'll just check to see what they've tweeted about recently. And I came across something that you tweeted about yesterday that I had not seen. Now, this is going to be very much for the next five minutes or so.

A College Park University of Maryland discussion, not about sports, not about sports, but Town Hall closed down? You tweeted that out. Can we believe it, Kevin? Unbelievable. The last vestige, the last vestige of 1980s college park. us about. Bentley's is still there, but the Voo's gone, Santa Fe's gone, the cellar's gone. Tick-Tock

Lickers, they're gone too. I mean, and now they took town all from us. I guess we've got to go to Loonies or whatever they call the Voo now, Cornerstone, I guess. Cornerstone pub, yeah. I mean, Bentley's is still there. John Brown still has Bentley's there, and that is for those of us that were there in the 80s. I mean, yeah, no Voo. That went away. No Santa Fe. I worked at the 94th. their squadron. That went away, I don't know, 10, 15 years ago. Not that that was a big hangout, but it was a restaurant. I actually worked for John at Bentley's briefly as well. But yeah, Town Hall, one of those college park, you know, landmarks closes after 65 years. I think for those of us that were there in the 80s, Town Hall wouldn't have been number one. There were a lot of locals

at Town Hall. The Voo, when the Vue became cornerstone That was a big hit to many of us who spent many an hour, if not, in days, months, and years in that place when it was all added up. Kevin, do you remember where you went after the boo closed and you had to leave? Yes. It was the one spot, purple pizza was a dollar slice. Terrible, though. Going down the block at like 1.30 in the morning. That are hungry Hermans.

But purple pizza was terrible pizza. You know, I mean, the only choices were purple and then Domino's, of course, but Domino's was only really delivery. And Lidos at that point wasn't where it is now, which is, you know, just off of Route 1. It was down University Boulevard, and nobody went down in that direction from campus. I'm sure they did many years previous to the 80s, but not starting in the 80s, all of the activity was on Route 1. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, and I guess Ratsies would have closed by then. It was still open, but I'm talking about sort of the late-night slice that you would get. You said Ratsies, yeah, Ratsies was right there on the corner. I forget what that is now. But no, Ratsies was there. Ratsies was there because you'd walk out, you know, if Santa Fe take the quick left and it was right next door. And to be honest with you, that pizza wasn't very good either.

You know, all of the guys from New York and New York, Jersey would always say, man, God, you guys have shitty food and shitty pizza. And we didn't know any better, you know, but they were right. Of course, they were. Back then I would argue with them. Now I know better, Kevin. Back then I would totally argue the purple's great. It's only a dollar. Yeah, right. By the way, did you watch the McDonald's high school game last night with Dair Queen? I'm trying to temper. We're going to to talk about this a little bit when we talk about the women's game. But you're a Terp Van. I'm a turp fan. And it's becoming increasingly more difficult for me to just be a fan of this team.

Because next year, all but two players are going to have moved on. And we have to relearn an entirely new roster. And I know you want to talk about their group queen. And I'm getting so excited about him coming. But it's just, it's not like, you know, I was going to go back to Lumbias, but even like our championship team 20 years ago, sort of they, you saw them grow from freshman to sophomore to junior to senior. And you don't see any of that anymore. And I think that's really hurting the men's game, whereas it's really helping the women's game. Because you have like Caitlin Clark and, you know, Angel Reese. I know she wasn't at LSU for a long time, but she was a star in women's college basketball. People got to see these

players sort of grow and develop rivalries. And, you know, that's the sort of main reason that that game, the LSU Iowa game, got so many viewers to me that it went off the courts. The casual fans knew exactly who was playing, what was, you know, what the history was there. And, you know, it's a television series. There was an interest in the game. And you sit down, and watch it. And it's really difficult for the men's game to, develop that. I mean, it's coming, I guess, from the coaches, you know, with Danny Hurley and stuff like that, but even that is

sort of overtaken by, you know, the LSU coach, women's coach, Kim Mulkey, and, you know, some of the other big personalities that the women's game seems as right now. It's so true. It's so funny, with respect to Derek Queen, and let me just tell everybody, Derek Queen, Maryland's five-star

recruit, Kevin Willard has coming in next year, played at Mont Verde with Cooper Flagg and, you know, one of the teams in America, five-star kid, you know, played in Baltimore before transferring to Montverde. He's coming, and he was the MVP of the game last night, 23 points, I think eight rebounds, three steals, had an outstanding game. I was told that, you know, he's not going to physically or athletically jump off the screen, and that is 100% true. But man, is he a skilled basketball,

player for somebody's 610. I'm excited to. Here's the other thing real quickly. We're getting sidetracked here. That's not, this isn't the reason I called you. But last night during the broadcast, they said, wow, Derek Queen, Maryland's second highest commit in program history

to Diamond Stone, that's just not true. It may be in the era of players getting stars attached to their names, but as you know, in the 1970s, Tom McMillan was the number one player in America. Moses Malone was the number one player in America. Albert King was the

number one player in America. Reggie Jackson, the point guard from Roman Catholic, was the number one player. Maryland got four number ones overall in like a nine-year period with Lefty in the 70s. So it's just the era of, I guess, more or less the stars being attached rather than just a long. ranking, I guess. But that's underselling Maryland's history. I don't know when they started doing the star system, but John Lucas was highly recruited. Adrian Branch out at

the Mapa and the 80s was highly recruited. So we certainly had a bunch of really highly recruited stars. I would say that Diamond Stone oh my God, why am I blanking on it? Their queen, it does have the same sort of

press coming in that Diamondstone had. Diamondstone, of course, was somewhat of a disappointment at the college park, but I'm very high on Derek Quinn. Yeah. I was very impressed last night. These All-Star games obviously can be a bit of a head fake. All right, let's talk about why I wanted you on today. So what were you expecting the number to be?

12.3 million was the average number of people that watched the LSU Iowa game. I'll have John put it in perspective as it relates to other sporting events. But what were you expecting before you saw the number? So I was expecting, I was off by a full 50%. I put in a guess of 8.3 million viewers, which by far would have been the biggest non-final four in women's tournament history. I made that prediction based on last year's championship game got, let's say, 10 million viewers. It was on ABC.

It was the championship game. And it was on a, you know, being on ABC, be on broadcast television, of course, is really helpful in bringing in more viewers than the game this week, which was just on ESPN. Boy, was I wrong. 14.3 million people tuned into it. And it's just, just on ESPN. And it just speaks as, as we move. Wait, it was 12.3 million, wasn't it? Wasn't it 12.3 million?

Did I say 12.14? Yeah, 12.3 million. Yeah, 12.3 million. Which is a number that is higher than every single World Series game last year. It's higher than all but one of the NBA finals games. It's a number that five years ago, if you told me five years ago, that there's going to be a women's sport that's going, that's going, to get the type of viewership that this got, I just wouldn't have believed you. It just shows this crazy growth of women's sports and its popularity as a TV sport, which is

really kind of cool to watch. I will tell you that a couple years ago, I went up to New York and I visited a bunch of different, you know, big money guys, people that are always looking to invest into sports. and I remember asking them what's the next big thing what are you looking to invest in and every single one of them said at the time they were like well

there's a lot of growth ahead for women's sports so that's where we're going to put our investment men sports are sort of oversaturated and I didn't make much of it I thought they were just sort of talking you know politically correct about where to put the money but it ended up

turning true and it is true and there is still a ton of room for growth with it. And you're seeing Fox put women's volleyball on broadcast television. You're seeing the women's softball world series got like really good time slots on the SPN. You're just seeing these networks. And they're not doing this altruistically. They're doing this because they know that there are viewers that are out there to watch and they're giving women's sports better time slots and sure enough they're attracting a lot of viewers. It's a total see change in the way that the TV networks are viewing how they offer sports. Okay, so that is a surprising answer for me and I'll tell you why. because my next question was going to be, is this just this shooting star, Tiger Woods

phenomena, pop culture phenomena, moment in time that Caitlin Clark is captured, but it won't have significant legs. It might attract an incremental, you know, bump of college basketball fans for the women's game. But this time next year, it's going to be right back to the numbers that it had before maybe a slightly higher. And you're suggesting or implying that this is part of a trend more than anything else rather than just one incredible, you know, story in Caitlin Clark. All right. So the storylines that I'm looking for over the next, the two main storylines that I'm looking at over the next couple of years is whether or not Caitlin Clark and Angel Rees can take their rivalry to the WNBA and really help the WNBA.

And that's an open question. I don't think anybody really has an answer to that yet. The other question is whether or not there are going to be, if you're watching the women's college game, there are a lot of really good players on the Yukon's, you know, Paige Beckers, South Carolina, excuse me, Southern California has, you know, Juju, just a freshman, there's a freshman at Notre Dame who's like really good South Carolina is stocked. They have really good players. The question is whether any of them are going to be able to to a breakout, not like Caitlin

Clark, she's sort of a wanton generation, but break out to where casual fans will start to watch. Almost certainly you're going to see TV viewership for the women's game come back a little bit next year. It has to drop. Caitlin Clark is a massive phenomenon right now. But I would suspect that it's going to be still up from two years ago, and there's going to be a nice – if you look at the graph and you take the graph, there's going to be a nice uptick, and that we're on – if not the beginning stages, sort of the middle stages of women's sports taking off.

And the one thing that you can look at to prove that point is how TV networks are viewing it, because TV networks aren't going to put women's sports in prime time. They're not going to put women's volleyball on broadcast television unless they're pretty sure it's going to drive an audience. And the TV network executives truly believe that their audiences are out there to come and watch these sports. That's interesting, too, to me. I mean, basketball is basketball, right?

I mean, everybody loves basketball. And even though the two games are very different, you're still watching basketball. The idea that women's volleyball could end up becoming some sort of high growth, you know, it can be high growth, it can be significant growth and percentage, and it could still fall well short of the sports that are mainstream. But are you suggesting that some of these women's sports that aren't sports that we typically watch, like volleyball, could become mainstream popular?

It depends on what mainstream is. So let's take a look. You know, look, you have the NFL and you have college football. So certainly nothing is going to become that, men or women. So take those away. The numbers that Caitlin Clark showed in an elite eight game, not a championship game, but an elite eight game that beat out the World Series and beat out most of the NBA finals, there's something there.

It's more than just sort of this rocket star phenomenon. Again, like, when I talk to TV executives, they are big on women's basketball. They're big on volleyball. You know what else they're really big on is gymnastics. Well, that's always strong. Figure skating in gymnastics as Olympic sports have always been the big draws. Right, and every four years. But they're saying, like, if you go to a college meet and, you're saying,

you watch college and gymnastics, it's a full crowd. It's an engaged crowd, and they can't believe that it's, they think it would be a good TV sport. I'm more skeptical of that one, to be honest, Kevin. But this is how a lot of the TV network executives are thinking now. What about the demographic, you know, differences? Like, advertisers have always liked men 25 to 54. they've liked younger men, you know, the 18 plus or, you know, the 18 to 30, certain advertisers. Like, how big of a deal is the 12.3 million that watched on Monday night? What are the demographics of the audience, first of all? Do you know? You know, I didn't dive into the demographics, so I don't know about the demographics.

but what I can tell you, Kevin, is that, again, we're at the beginning stages of this sort of, it feels like revolution. I don't want to overstate it, but, you know, the growth of women's sports. And the network executives and the networks are slowly sort of taking to it, and that's why we're seeing a lot more women's sports on the air. And it's taking the advertising base a lot longer to sort of get comfortable with investing money here. but we're slowly seeing that start to happen. There's, you know, one advert, in New York, you have advertising agencies that buy ads for a bunch of, like, big products.

And there's just one, one of the biggest advertising agents. I just wrote about it last week. Group M said that they were going to double the amount of spend that they were going to put into women's sports. Still well behind what they spend in men's sports, but it's significant. They're seeing, like, the advertisers also are seeing. a lot of growth there. All the business metrics suggest that this is that while Caitlin Clark is a meteorite, and one of the reasons that the numbers are up so high, that there's going to be a trend of bigger ratings and more programming devoted to women's sports over the next,

you know, how long, the next several years, I would guess. Interesting. All right. So you mentioned the WNBA and what Caitlin Clark and Angel Reese going to the WNBA might mean. I think it's really a fascinating question because, like, the college atmosphere, the fact that she had been there in that Iowa uniform for four years, I mean, we know that the WNBA hasn't drawn flies for a long period of time. I was also, and I learned this earlier today, like the Indiana fever who would pick her, number one, like the draft is like a week after the final on Sunday night or, you know,

10 days or something after the final. And the first game that she would play in would be a month later. I think that's a huge benefit, so you're not waiting three or four months before she plays again. Like the first game she plays, I think, is May 14th with Indiana at Yukon. Not Yukon. I said Yukon. At Connecticut. I don't know what the Connecticut's team name is.

I apologize. I do know it's the Indiana. I believe there's a Connecticut sun, I believe. Okay, the sun and the Indiana fever. So what do you think? Will the WNBA all of the sudden become much more popular because Caitlin Clark's in it? I'm not willing to give a prediction on this. And this is why. Will Iowa basketball fans immediately follow Caitlin Clark to the WNBA?

I'm not so certain that they think they will do that. will Caitlin Clark be as dominant in the because people love to watch the fact that she's making, you know, logo threes and the fact that she can't, you can't cover her in college. There's a lot better players in the WNBA than there are women's college basketball right now. Will she, will she be as dominant in the WNBA? And if she's not as dominant, if they keep her in check, is that going to dampen enthusiasm for watching it? can she develop some of these on court rivalries that sort of go off the court to draw in the casual fans? Those are like really big questions that I don't think it's, I think you'll see a pretty big bump because of the curiosity factor. And basically how she plays and how the other players sort of take to her or battle her will determine,

whether those viewers will stick around, I think. Yeah, I wonder whether or not the same thing applies professional basketball, college basketball, on the women's side, meaning, you know, the March interest in the tournament is always the biggest basketball audience of the year. I mean, this Duke, you know, the Duke state game on Sunday out drew any of the NBA finals games from last year. And I think it might, be the same with women's sports. Like with basketball specifically is that the college game, there's something different. By the way, just in general, March is just the perfect month for college basketball.

It's been a great. I don't think there's another month on the calendar where they would get the same attention. Not only from the NCAA tournament and now the NCAA women's tournament on top of it. But if you're a fan of, like, Maryland that didn't even make the tournament, there's the off-field signings that Maryland's getting, you know, from the transfer portal that's adding excitement to teams that aren't even playing in the tournament right now. I couldn't agree more with that. One area that I do want to push back on you a little bit is that the Caitlin Clark phenomenon is,

of course, regular season games don't rate nearly as high as a tournament. Of course, you're right about that. this season, Caitlin Clark set viewership records on, I think it was five different networks. She said a stewardship record on Fox, on ESPN,

on Big Ten network, on Peacock, and on NBC. They all posted a highest ever viewership for women's college basketball regular season games, all with Caitlin Clark games.

So she's been doing this all season. It's just that she hasn't gotten near the 12.3 number that she got the other day. No, I mean, look, I've watched a lot of those games. Would have never watched it without her. I mean, in sports right now, couldn't you make the case that she's the biggest eyeball grabber in sports? I mean, if we take the NFL and Patrick Mahomes, if we take the NFL out of the equation, right, I think we have to take the NFL in its brightest. stars out of the conversation. But everything else, is there a bigger star right now than Caitlin Clark in sports? I mean, you could certainly make an argument for one, like a LeBron

James here and there or something like that, but she certainly is within that conversation, which is, again, if you had told me this three years ago, a woman's college basketball player would be, we'd be talking about her like this. I just wouldn't have believed you. I mean, this is such a leap from where things were just a couple of years ago. Amazing. All right. The men's tournament it's really done well, hasn't it? I'm a little bit surprised by that, but I shouldn't be with

betting and the proliferation of legalized betting, et cetera. But talk about the men's tournament and how well it's doing. Yeah, this is why the men's tournament is doing so well. We had a couple of really big upsets, you know, like Kentucky, Kansas, this sort of went down.

But a lot of the blue blood stuck around, and we're going to have Yukon as a defending champion. Again, if you look at this as a TV series, people know Danny Hurley, they know Yukon. You know, they're there. I think they had been a blue blood of the sport and appear to be back in that race again. Purdue with how long has Jackie been there?

Yeah, long time. years, I think. But again, you have people that, a player that people know well. I mean, if Duke had gotten in, but the NC State with, who's our star, what's their big guy's name again? Burns, Jr. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I mean, I mean, who is just, you know, the TV just loves him. And so, you know, it works. they are able to get stars and well-known programs

in the Final Four. If you're Turner, which is one of Brothers Discovery, and I guess the Final Four is going to be on TNTTBS and True TV this weekend. You couldn't have asked for a better

for a better March Madness. Upsets and big name teams and big brand teams moving through. Yeah. That seems, that's a good point. I mean, people, networks love the drama of the first round and the upsets, but they really like when we get to the Sweet 16 and Elite 8,

a lot of the Blue Bloods to be left. And you've got Yukon there. I mean, I saw the Duke NC State number was massive. And it's funny because no coach K, most casual sports fans couldn't have named one Duke player. Because, you know, you don't watch a lot of regular season college hoops anymore. but man, that Duke brand still carries today, doesn't it? Yeah, the Duke brand carries.

I also think NC State and the run that NC State has made is, the deeper they go, the more people are sort of tuning in to see what's going on there. Yeah, here we are some, you know, 41 years later after the Valvano run. All right, last one, NFL draft, end of this month, four quarterbacks potentially in the top five picks, which we've never seen four straight to start a draft. Will the quarterback heavy nature of this draft draw a lot more to the three-day broadcast?

I was looking at up at something just over six million watched on average over the three days of the draft last year. Will there be a bigger audience for this year's draft? Oh, without question. If you talk to any TV executive about the draft, if you have a lot of quarterbacks that go early, that's great. And it's not just a quarterback that are going early. It's a bunch of skilled position players that are also sort of in there as well.

Quarterbacks and receivers running back are, you know, take up, what, seven or eight spots of the top ten. So people will tune into that. One other aspect that really helps is that one player that everybody thinks is going to go high and is sitting there in the green room and keeps dropping. It just adds to a lot of drama, and people stick around to watch that. So if they're able to get that as well, they'll be fine. But the amount of quarterbacks, the amount of high-level quarterbacks and when they're going to be taken.

And frankly, the teams that are going to be drafting, I mean, Chicago is a, when the bears do well, NFL ratings are up. The commanders are a, you know, I know it's been a rough quarter century thanks to Dan Snyder, but the commanders are still a, you know, a storied NFL franchise that, you know, have fans across the country. So there are a lot of big teams drafting well-known quarterbacks

and you should expect the ratings to be through the roof. Great job. Always enjoy our conversations. Hope you're well. Thanks, man. always happy to come. John Orand, everybody, always enjoy my conversations with John. All right, we're done for the day back tomorrow with Tommy.