The Kevin Sheehan Show - Will Washington Spend Big?

Episode Date: March 6, 2024

Kevin opened the show discussing Washington's league-leading salary cap space while wondering whether or not the team will spend freely. Kevin talked about Justin Fields as an alternative plan if the team doesn't fall in love with any of the quarterbacks in the draft. Phil Mackey/Purple Daily Podcast jumped on to talk about Kirk Cousins' next move and if Washington could be a surprise destination. Kevin finished up the show talking about the release of Russell Wilson and the Wizards' approaching a franchise record.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it, but you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheon Show. Here's Kevin. This show's presenting sponsor is Window Nation, as always. Call them at 86690 Nation or head towindonation.com. Mention my name. You'll get a free in-home estimate,

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You can shop it if you want. I've been endorsing Wind Donation for 14 plus years. You're not going to work with a better company that's got a better product or for a better deal. Windonation, 86690 Nation and WindowNation.com. One guest on the show today, Phil Mackey is the lead host of a very successful Minnesota Vikings podcast called Purple Daily. Phil has been on with us previously, maybe a year and a half ago, two years ago. He will be on with us in the next segment. to discuss, you know who, as Galdi refers to Kirk Cousins.

You know who is the number one free agent in free agency, which begins a week from tomorrow. And you know who has been mentioned in the same sentence with Washington in various reports over the last few days. So Phil Mackey will join us in the next segment of the show today. The franchise tag deadline just came and went. eight NFL players got the tag. None of them are Washington players. So Cameron Curl will become an unrestricted free agent a week from tomorrow. The eight NFL players that got tagged, some of these happened previous to today. T. Higgins, the wide receiver in Cincinnati. Ligerius Sneed, the Chiefs Outstanding Corner on what was an outstanding defense for the Super Bowl

champion chiefs. Brian Burns, the edge pass rusher in Carolina. Justin Matabouquet, the outstanding defensive tackle in Baltimore. Antoine Winfield, the safety in Tampa, that would be an indication that they feel like they can get Baker Mayfield signed because they tagged Winfield. They signed Evans yesterday to a two-year extension. I would guess that Baker Mayfield resigns in Tampa. Josh Allen, outstanding edge rusher in Jacksonville tagged. Jalen Johnson, the really improved in outstanding corner in Chicago tagged. And Michael Pittman Jr. in Indianapolis, the receiver, tagged. So those are the eight players that received a non-exclusive franchise tag. Kyle Dugger in New England, the safety,

got a transition tag. So that is it for franchise tags. Now we sit, we wait, we see if anybody signs any of their existing players to long-term deals. And if not, we are often running with free agency. Tampering period begins Monday. and then free agency begins in earnest with the beginning of the NFL calendar on March 11th, a week from, March 13th, excuse me, a week from tomorrow. March 11th is a week from yesterday, which is the beginning of the tampering period. So that's where I want to start today. I want to start with this. Washington's ability in free agency to go hog wild.

I think most of you know this, but Washington has the most cap space. of any team in the NFL this year. They've got, according to overthecap.com, 91.5 million of available cap space. That's 3 million more than the Patriots have per spot rack.com. They've got $96 million in available cap space, 16 million more than the Titans have. The question here, and maybe there are two questions here,

which is what I really want to get to, is will they be a big spender in free agency? But maybe more importantly, can they be a big spender in free agency? Well, obviously, Kevin, the answer is yes. They've got the most cap space in the league. That's true. But Josh Harris, less than a year ago, paid $6 billion for the franchise, needed to take on debt and 20 plus limited partners,

investors to be able to pull it off. When you start spending big in free agency and you start guaranteeing big dollars to contracts, you know what the NFLPA and the NFL require you to do? Now, it's a little bit vague around this particular rule, but in most cases, that money has to be put into escrow. So if they were to go on a big spending spree in free agency and, you know, they were to use, let's just say, 95% of the cap, and you're talking about hundreds of millions of dollars over the next four or five years in guaranteed money. You got to put that into escrow.

Will he have the ability? Will he have the desire to do that? I don't know the answer to that question. I'm not here reporting anything. It's something that occurred to me when I was just considering that free agency starts a week from tomorrow, and my God, Washington's got the most money to spend and a lot of holes to fill. I mean, Josh Harris paid $6 billion, and in the first full-off season of his ownership,

there is this golden opportunity of cap space, draft picks as well. And by the way, the number one overall pick, or the number two overall pick, which they have, could be an outlay of about $40 million. There is a rookie wage scale, but still, when you're picking in the first round that high, You know, Bryce Young got 37 million in aggregate contract value from the Panthers last year at number one overall. So roughly 40 million for that quarterback that they take at number two, if that's the direction they go in. But to put a lot of, you know, money into players where you've got to put a lot of money into escrow, maybe a tough pill for Josh Harris to swallow.

I'm not saying he can't do it. The question is, will he want to do it? And that leads to this. There is a minimum spend on salary cap. You know, you got to get to about 89% over a three-year period, I believe it is, in spending of the actual salary cap. So there are two things to watch here. The first is what I just described. Will they be big spenders when they might have to put big money into escrow to sign players? I mean, might they look at shorter-term deals with players because it would require less long-term money into escrow. The other thing, though, is this.

Because they have a minimum to get to, watch closely to see what they do with the existing contracts that are back-end loaded. There's an example that I'm going to give you, and there are a few of them on the team. But John Allen was signed to his four-year $72 million contract in 20,000. They back end loaded from a salary cap standpoint his deal because they couldn't front end load it. They didn't have the space in 2021 and 2022. The biggest cap hit on John's contract is the last year of his deal, 2025 at $23 million. We've been talking about the possibility of John Allen being on the trade market. Is it possible that they go to John and say, we'll give you two more years, but we want to front load the last

years of your deal, 2024 and 2025, as well as 26 and 27, because we need more and we want to move more of our salary requirements into 2024. So actually, the cap space in 2024 could be taken up by restructured deals of existing players as much as it might be about the new players they sign. Again, I don't know anything. It's just the simple, thought of, man, he needed a lot of help to get this deal done. He's got a lot of money heading into stadium improvements, et cetera. Now, it may not be their style anyway. They've talked about the draft and building through the draft. It may not be their style anyway to go out and go on a big spending spree. But they've got a lot of holes to fill, and there's big opportunity with

the available cap space that they have. So something to keep an eye. on here over the next few weeks ahead. One other thing I wanted to get to here before we get to Phil Mackey. So I got this tweet from John. John tweeted me and I did this on the radio show this morning and took a bunch of calls, but I wanted to discuss it briefly here on the podcast as well. John wrote me, quote, Why the Kirk Cousins talk?

Oh, John, just wait for Phil Mackey in the next segment. John wrote, why the Kirk Cousins talk. For the reasons you've mentioned, he's not coming here. And I have mentioned that. I think that it's just not the right fit for cousins here. I don't think it's the right fit for the team at all. They've talked about mobility in a quarterback. You've got to have a lot around Kirk to make.

I just don't think it makes sense for either side. And so I don't think it's going to happen. It's not going to stop me from talking about him. But John writes, why the Kirk Cousins talk, for the reasons you've mentioned he's not coming here. I think we should be talking about Justin Fields. He can be had for next to nothing, and why not build around a guy that has proven to be high character

and still has an upside? Remember what he did to Washington last year? John, thank you for that. You can tweet me at Kevin Sheehan, D.C. You can email me by going to the Kevin Sheeonshow.com podcast homepage. I do remember what he did to Washington last year. He shredded Washington's defense, as did almost every other team. Washington's defense faced last year.

It was the second worst defense per the DVOA metric. It was one of the worst defenses we've ever seen in franchise history. They allowed quarterbacks the highest QBR and passer rating of any of the 32 teams. So Justin Fields played well in some games. He did. Washington was one of those games he played well in. but I do think this is an interesting question. Now, it's only a question for me if they are unconvinced about any of the

quarterbacks they can take at number two. Number two, Jaden Daniels for me, would be the way I think they should go. But if they're not convinced about Daniels or May or Pennix Jr. or McCarthy, then what direction do they go in at quarterback? I don't think it's Sam Hal. I don't think Sam Hal gets another chance and another year. I don't. I don't think it's Kirk Cousins for the reasons I've mentioned.

Justin Fields is sitting out there right now, and the conversation has centered in recent days around a softening market for Justin Fields. And John mentioned in his email, and I read something recently about Justin Fields. He said, he can be had for now. to nothing, and why not build around a guy that has proven to be high character? For those of you who have not followed Justin Fields' career in Chicago,

he is so respected by the players, by coaches, by the organization, by media people, by the fans. The fans in Chicago are torn. They are torn between this Caleb Williams potential and a player that they've actually fallen in love with. And you say, well, why? Because he is super, super high character, super classy. All of the, look, he came, they've had multiple offensive coordinators. They have put nothing around him in his first three years. And he has taken the high road in almost every conversation. Now, I do know that there was some sort of Instagram unfollow or something. There was something recently. But even he just,

joked about it. They love him in Chicago. I've liked Justin Fields all along. He was one of those players I advocated trading up for in that draft. I think there's a big upside still with Justin Fields. There are a couple of things that bother you when you watch Justin Fields. Sometimes he doesn't process and he gets late to things, but he is a lethal playmaker as a runner. And I think he's got a huge upside. Would I take him over Jaden Daniels or even a Drake May? No. If the team believes that the swing on one of those quarterbacks is a swing worth taking because of, first of all, having five years of control, and secondly, maybe having a higher ceiling than Fields, you do that. This is not, you know, I'm not saying not pick a quarterback at two, take Justin Fields. I'm saying

if they don't like any of the quarterbacks, this would be an option for them. Justin Fields also would signal a different approach to the upcoming season, because if you go ahead and trade, let's say, a third rounder, and that may be all it would take for Justin Fields, you're talking about trying to contend for something much sooner rather than later. Like you put a new coaching staff and a really good offensive coordinator and plan and some pieces in place with the draft and maybe, fewer pieces than they could get in free agency, but enough to upgrade the O line and add another

receiver to the mix and add an edge rusher and a couple of defensive players and coach them up better. You're talking about a team that could turn it around quickly. Like, Justin Fields with better players and better coaching, that's a team next year that could win a lot more games than they did in 23. And in a weak NFC, as it stands now, could actually contend for a playoff spot. I don't know. I've liked Justin Fields. I think he still has a big upside. And he is a really, really high character player in your locker room. I put that out on a poll on X on Twitter. How do you feel about a third rounder for Justin Fields and then use the draft and free agency to be? build around him. As of now, you know, 3,500 votes in. 66.3% say, no, no thanks on that. 33.7%

said, yes, they would do it. But again, for me, it comes down to, I'd be in favor of it, only if we knew that they just didn't like any of the quarterbacks, that they had not fallen in love with any of the quarterbacks. I think they will fall in love with at least one of them. I don't know which one it'll be, but I think they'll fall in love with either May or Daniels and select that player at number two. But Justin Fields, to me, would be a great ad for a couple of teams that don't end up getting, you know, the opportunity to draft their answer. Or in the case of perhaps Minnesota or Atlanta, don't end up with Kirk Cousins. All right. Speaking of Kirk, you know who, let's get to him next with our next guest.

right after these words from a few of our sponsors. If you have a moment and can rate us and review us on Apple and Spotify, that would be much appreciated. Follow us as well and subscribe to the podcast. That is always helpful. All right. Jumping on with me right now is Phil Mackey. Phil is the lead host on Purple Daily, Score North in Minnesota, a very successful podcast in YouTube. show covering Minnesota sports, but most of their stuff, a lot of it is on the Vikings.

I had Phil on this show a few years ago to talk about Phil. We actually refer to him, my good friend Al Galdi, who is a former radio friend of mine and does a podcast. We've decided that we will refer to Kirk as you know who, because when we mention his name, it's so triggering to so many people around here. as it is in Minnesota now. But Phil was on with me. Phil is definitely, you know, a skeptic and a critic of Kirk, but in a very reasonable way. But I'm having Phil on just because Cousin's name has come up. You know whose name has come up here recently with some of the reports that Washington isn't out of the question for a free agent possibility for Minnesota's quarterback. So let's start there.

where is you know who going to sign? I think he signs with the Atlanta Falcons. But I also find it fascinating how much this story moves from hour to hour since the start of the combine. I mean, we've literally gone from Kirk putting out the first day of the combine, putting out that video of him on a tennis court. You know, hey, look at me. My Achilles is feeling great. Look at me dropping back, throwing passes. And then from there, it was just one report, one rumor after another.

The latest one, and maybe I'm missing one here in the last couple hours, but the Mike Floreo stuff from last night is just glorious reckless speculation. We call this on Purple Daily reckless speculation. Yeah. Because it does anything fair game. And Floreo wrote on Pro Football Talk, I can't get into the specifics for now, but we're getting very credible indications that Cousins is seriously considering moving his

family to Atlanta. But I can't get into the specifics. Well, enough people push Floreo. Like, what do you? You can't just float that. You know, what are you talking about? And his ego starts to blow up. And so he goes on his talk show this morning,

and he went on the Pat Mackey show and said, okay, fine. When we had Kirk Cousins on at the Combine on PFT Live, my wife and Julie Cousins had a conversation, and I joined it for a while off air. And, you know, the bye-bye got, they're looking at houses. They're kind of wondering why the Vikings haven't stepped up with an offer here.

You know, Kirk is talking about getting number eight from Kyle Pitt. So I think that's where we're headed right now, Atlanta, but there's still plenty of time for this thing to change. I saw the first part of that with Florio, who, let's be honest, doesn't get it right a lot of the time and engages in what you called reckless speculation all the time. But I missed the second part. But I guess my question to you is,

do you think any of what Floreo is discussing, if you want to call it reporting, we can call it reporting, do you think it's true? Yes, but I also think the Kirk Cousins Camp, and that could mean any number of people, right? I could mean Kirk himself, his agent Mike McCartney,

who is one of the brilliant agents He is. And his wife, Julie, who kind of, I think, runs the show more than people even think behind the scene. I think it's one of the most strategic camps of any player in the NFL. You know, Kirk going up on stage at the NFL honors awards, the eve of the Super Bowl and dancing, showing the world that his leg is fine, right? The video that I mentioned. And now, hey, the Vikings haven't budged.

The Vikings have drawn a line in the sand over the past 12 months. We want you back, but it's got to be on our terms. It's not going to be for $45, $50 million. We're not budging. Okay, well, how do we get the Vikings to budge? Let's start floating stuff out to Mike Schufter's not going to report this stuff, but Floreo will. Let's start floating to Mike Floreo.

Hey, we're looking at houses within a 10-mile radius of the Falcons practice facility. Oh, we got family down there. Oh, I don't know. It's like the fact that this stuff is getting out, to me, feels like one last ditch pitch to the Vikings to make your best offer, or we have a couple other places, Atlanta being the first one. But the commander thing is really interesting because all of the key players that Kirk would have had an issue with six years ago from Daniel Snyder all the way down to Jay Gruden,

are all long gone, right? Oh, yeah. So if they like the area and they like the fan base and everyone that, you know, that spurned Kirk six years ago is gone. I don't think they're the favorite, but I could see that being a legitimate destination here starting on Monday. So you mentioned, you know, how good they've been at this, and it is true.

And, you know, the origin of him becoming one of the great business stories in the history of the NFL is Washington's, you know, moronic group here. They had a chance in 2015 to lock them up in like a five-year deal, maybe 45 to 50 guaranteed 20 or something a year. And they low-balled them beyond description. And it started that path towards the franchise tag. Because without that first franchise tag and that second franchise tag, I don't know if we get this incredible Kirk $240 million or whatever the career earnings are runs. So you've got Washington to blame for it.

Because if they had locked him up and Kirk was willing at the time, I think a lot of us knew that if they'd come to him with a market value or maybe a slightly better than market value deal, I think he would have signed it after 2015. That was his first year. And look what's happened. And not only that, Phil, every single time he comes up for free agency, it's like the perfect time.

You know, that's not something he can necessarily control. But it's like the Jets offered 90 plus million the year that Minnesota got them. You know, this year you've got the Falcons with a made-for, I think a made-for-contention team. Other teams, lots of teams need quarterbacks this year. But you think Atlanta, answering the question, regardless of the reporting, you think he will end up signing in Atlanta? You know, I do. And we actually, we floated this when the Vikings started one in four, this would have been, or maybe it was one in three, and then they lost their next game.

This was like late September, early October. And we went on our podcast, my co-host, Judge Zulgat, I said, hey, a couple of listeners have floated. Because at the time, we thought the season was over, and this is just, it's clearly coming to an end, cousins as a free agent, the Vikings are one and four, they're going nowhere. It's time to just trade off a couple pieces. And we were looking around, like, okay, who are the teams? that might, this is, this was trade deadline fodder at the time.

Yeah. Okay, Aaron Rodgers is done with an Achilles. Could the Jets make a play for Kirk Cus? Well, I don't know. Are they going to want to take on that salary? And then he's going to want to because he has a no trade clause. Would he waived for the jet? Where would he waive his no trade clause to go?

And we had a listener float in anonymous, hey, you got to check out where him and his wife got married, where his wife's family still lives. And so we did an episode and said, all right, hear us out on this. The Atlanta Falcons could make some sense. And it's funny to go back and look at the comments now. People laughed and clowned us. You guys are just making stuff up, right? But it makes all the sense in the world.

People talk about whether the Vikings are going to give, or whether Kirk's going to give the Vikings a hometown discount, right? Well, Minnesota is not his hometown. He was brought to Minnesota as a mercenary in 2018 to push an NFC championship team over the top to a Super Bowl. and we could debate whether they didn't accomplish anything close to that, and we could debate whose fault it is. But at the end of the day, like, this is not his hometown.

His family likes it here. His kids have grown up here to some extent, but his family is in Michigan, Florida, and Georgia. Right. Those are the places where his main family is from. So from a family perspective, it makes sense. Weapons all over the place that just need to be unlocked makes total sense. Offensive coordinator comes from the same shot.

John McVeigh-Omband, Kevin O'Connell, the Vikings coach, yep. And quite frankly, they're probably in a better spot to give him like three guaranteed years than the Vikings are right now. So I think it makes independent of the reporting, I think the Falcons probably make the most sense of any of these teams. Yeah, I actually all along since the season ended, I have thought that he would end up in Minnesota. I know how much Kevin really likes Kirk and wants Kirk back. You know, Kevin was here as the offensive coordinator before going out to L.A. with Sean and then getting the job in Minnesota. And I just figured that he would end up in Minnesota.

Atlanta is actually a better fit for him for the next couple of years. And probably, as you described, it's probably a better contractual fit. but I still think if he stays in Minnesota, it's a chance to win there. Let's come back to what's next in a moment. I want to ask you a couple of things about the situation there. What do you think that Vikings brass wants? You know, ownership, Quasi, the GM. I know Kevin wants Kirk back, but what's the general sense you get of the hierarchy there and what they want?

I think I do believe Kevin wants him back. I mean, he's been pretty steadfast in his comments all throughout the season at the NFL Combine doing three or four different high profile. I don't think he's lying when he says, I want Kirk back. It's a great safety blanket. If you run a timing passing offense and you need somebody to sit back and make accurate throws and go through reads and be an extension of me, Kevin O'Connell, I think, has the brain of a high-end NFL quarterback, but just accuracy, all the other things.

He was the third-round pick, you know, out of San Diego. Like, I think he views Kirk as almost like a physical extension of his football brain, and Kirk has been a perfect partner through two years for that. So I do think Kevin O'Connell wants him back. I think Quasi Adolphamenta, the Vikings general manager, looks at this and says, okay, if you look at the last two decades of Super Bowl teams, overwhelmingly, the quarterbacks for those teams fall into one of two categories. Either number one, it's a goat, right?

It's the greatest of all-time caliber guy, like a Tom Brady, a Patrick Mahom, the Peyton Manning, that caliber quarterback. Or the second main category is quarterbacks on rookie scale contracts that allow you to build up a monster roster around them. There's only a small handful of examples, the last 24, 26 Super Bowl teams where you can find highly paid non-elite quarterback that lead Matthew Stafford's probably an example, although he was a former first overall pick that I think is better than most people give him credit for. Matt Ryan got through the Super Bowl, didn't win it, but had a 28 to 3 lead. And there's like Eli Manning at one point was highly paid and not necessarily.

one of the top five or six quarterback. Can you really build a Super Bowl team with Kirk Cousins, 36 coming out for the Achilles, making $45 million the next couple years? I don't think so, and I think if you're Quasi and you're an analytically driven general manager in front office, as much as you like Kirk as a quarterback and a human, I don't know how you can justify paying him again for a seventh and eight year if your goal is to win a Super Bowl right now. What is the locker room one? that's another great question I think the locker room

wants Kirkback I think they like Kirk they got Kirkgo chains rocking the gold chains after wins on the plane in 2020 you know he's kind of the

he's the football dad of the locker and players on both sides of the ball kind of rave about him they just like he's kind of this nerdy goofy cold cash carrying

football dad and he's helped Justin Jefferson get to the point with the statistics he's put up, he's going to make the most money of any wide receiver in NFL history. Right. But at the same time, nobody in that locker room has gone past the second round of the playoffs. So you could like a guy and think a guy as talented. The other argument that I love to is, well, he's a top 10 quarterback.

Well, that's great. Let's say he's the 10th or 11th best quarterback. Would we brag about, hey, you know, my son or daughter is in the 67th, percentile of his or her class. That's how smart. Right. Sometimes we overblow the top 10 quarterback thing. Okay.

Yeah. I mean, I don't consider the top 10 in NFL quarterbacks to be bragging about essentially a C-minus student. But anyway, continue. But my point is, it's great to have the 10th best quarterback. But if the 10th best quarterback is consistently putting you in a spot, or he has a top three or four cap hit, and his contract length is inflexible to the point where you can't spread it out over six, seven, eight years like the Joe Burrow contract or the Patrick Mahomes contract.

It just makes it so much harder to build a Super Bowl-ready roster, and that's the position the Vikings right. Kirk Cousins will get a seven-win team to 11 wins. I think that's what's going to happen with the Atlanta Falcons. I don't know that he gets a 10-win team to the Super Bowl because he's never done it in his career. So that leads me into this, because this is where Vikings fans and Skins fans, commanders fans,

Washington football team fans, have a very shared experience, and it is this polarizing view of cousins. I think it's always been about the contract that has created this incredibly polarizing quarterback in the league that is not elite and hasn't won big, but it gets talked about as much as sometimes the elite quarterbacks in the league. Where are Vikings fans right now after these years with Kirk? Are they split like they were in D.C.?

Or is it weighted one way or the other? it's very split and in the in the conversations that you and i have had it feels very similar to the way that washington fans felt which is you watch this guy put up 4,000 yards and 28 30 touchdowns and and you watch your team compete against some of the better teams but come up just short in big moments right maybe you get to that ninth win that 10th win and you lose a close playoff game or whatever it is. And it always feels like you're right on the verge of competing at another level, but you just need another piece or two to really help Kirk. And I think that's what kind of bothers me about it. If he was making $10 or $15 million or was on a rookie scale contract,

count me in 10 times out of 10. But the fact that he's been a top three cap hit with the Vikings, I think, in four out of the six years. This last year, they moved $28.5 million of his contract into a void year for 2004, which means they're on the hook for that money, even if he played for the Falcons. So they kind of moved funny money around last year. But the problem is when you pay him that much money, and then you complain about the deficiencies around him, boy, if only Kirk had a better offensive line and one more edge rusher and another weapon, right?

But you don't get that luxury. Patrick Mahomes signs the big contract, and they say, hey, it's great, we're going to have you around for 10 years, but we have to take about a Tyree Kill, and we need you to make up for it. And he says, okay, sounds good, we're just going to win back-to-back Super Bowls about Tyree Kill. You know, that's like Kirk isn't on that level. And so we sit here and figure out, well, how can we bend the roster and make it a little bit more perfect, and the reality is you really can't.

It's almost impossible to draft perfectly and hit on every free agent signing. and also pay Kirk Cousins, you know, top three, top five cap. I think that that is the best argument against Kirk and has been for the last several years, and that is the contract, certainly in Minnesota. It wasn't necessarily the case with the franchise tag for two straight years here. It just gives, it takes away some of that roster flexibility, the ability to sort of build around him. And he's always been a quarterback. And this is, you know, you're more of a skeptic.

I've been more of a fan. But I've always conceded that he's not going to carry a team, an average team, to Super Bowl contention. He's got to have a really solid group around him. And one of the reasons I think they haven't done better in Minnesota in terms of wins and playoff wins is they've been horrific defensively. They've been horrific along the offensive line, in part because of Kirk's deal. Now, this past year, his deal was, like his cap number was kind of top 10 to 15-ish, right? It wasn't still in the top 10, was it? I think it was, I think it was

outside the top 10 because of what they did. I mean, they literally, they basically cut his contract in half. I mean, he got the money. They cut the accounting in half. The cap hit. and half and shoved half of it into 2024 into a void year just to make it. But here's the interesting thing. I think he's a lot better as a quarterback today than he was when he left Washington and signed with the Vikings six years ago.

I think he's better late in games. I think he understands I think he understands how to win close games more than he did six years ago. He's obviously processed hundreds and thousands more scenarios than when he was 29 years old. This is the wild card and all this. If his body, if he can come back healthy and his body can hold up for another three to four years,

as his mind continues to slow the game down, could he be a guy that late in his 30s, you know, 36, 37, 38, almost like Rich Gannon did 20 years ago. Carson Palmer's best season came at age 36 after a torn ACL with the Cardinals. We saw Kurt Warner with a. run late, right? Sometimes these guys, you've processed so much football and your body is still at a point where you can throw the ball and stay healthy. Maybe there is one or two more years of the highest end play that we've seen from him. And that would be my only regret on behalf of the

Vikings is, are you, is he going to get better before his body completely gives out and the Falcons are going to be the team or Washington again is going to be the team that bears the fruit? That's interesting because I was going to ask you if you thought that he was playing his best football of his career before his injury because I do. I think that he had finally, first of all, there was some consistency, you know, in terms of the offensive. The match was good with Kevin. There was consistency. It wasn't, you know, Di Felipe to Kubiak to Stefansky. I mean, it was, you know, it was changing all the time.

and we've seen this with quarterbacks. You mentioned a couple of them, but it's not that he's entering his prime. That's not true. But the prime for quarterbacks now, look at Gino Smith later in his career. There may be another example of that or two coming, where at 30, 31 and then older, they start to put it all together. And I actually, and I'm curious as to what you think, let me just say this real quickly. I don't want him in Washington. I think it's a bad fit in Washington.

I think that Kingsbury wants mobility at the position. I think what they want to run. They don't have a team that would be supportive around cousins. I don't think Washington wants them. And as much as Kirk and Julie loved living in D.C., I know that to be true. I don't think, I think it's a McCartney ginning up the market thing in terms of the D.C. stuff.

But I thought he was on the verge of playing the best football of his career. and I thought that their season was about to turn around in a big way. What did you think? Yeah, which is, by the way, that's another hallmark of Kirk Cousin's career. Contract year? Well, I was going to say he's the ultimate sort of, he's the ultimate series, and that every step of the way you could say, man, if he didn't blow his Achilles, they won three games in a row,

they beat the Packers, man, if he just didn't have John D. Lippo as his offensive coordinator that one year, or if, man, if the defense in 2022 was just a little bit better, it's the ifs, and butts of Kirk Cousin's career. And they're not, I mean, they're not necessarily wrong in a vacuum. But, yeah, I agree, man, like the 49ers game in prime time, I think it was a Monday night game, and now in fairness, the 49ers were down their Hall of Fame left tackle. Yeah, but Jefferson did. But Jefferson was out.

And Jefferson was out, too. But Kirk, yeah, Kirk, I mean, the game after that against, basically the first three quarters of the game against the Packers at Lambo, with no Jefferson, this is right before he tore the Achilles. That was some of the most surgical passing, Jordan making Jordan Addison into a star. So, yeah, I don't know that they would have made the run all the way to the playoffs, digging out of the one and four hole.

But they were four, and he dug them out to get to four and four. and then it was kind of game on from there, but we'll never know. Yeah, it's funny the way you describe that, because I do think there are a lot of people listening that are like, see, that's what it is. It's always something with you, Sheehan. It's always the O-Line. It's the defense. And I do think that the 2022 team, if it had been a little bit better defensively,

that they wouldn't have gotten Daniel Jones paid the way they did. I mean, because really Daniel Jones got paid because of how bad the Minnesota defense was in 2022. But then again, it's fourth down and he checks it down to Hawkinson, which is not really what he's ever been about checkdown, but it was a terrible moment for those of us that wanted him to succeed. I really have always felt, and you're right, you just can't explain the ultimate results away.

But man, there have been ifs and buts that. have been bad luck ifs and butts for him. It happened here in Washington. They were terrible defensively in his three years starting. I mean horrific defensively. They didn't have a run game at all, something that they at least had in Minnesota when Dalvin Cook was there. And it's just, it's an interesting career. And I don't know that here's what I could say to you is that I felt in the moment they were making

a big mistake not being aggressive in signing Kirk to a long-term deal. This franchise hadn't had anything at quarterback in forever, minus the RG3 rookie season. And since he's left, you know, they're 27 games under 500. They've started 10 different quarterbacks. I think everybody understands how much worse it can be when you don't have a top 10, top 12 quarterback, and that's the risk there. But to your point, too, the goal is to win a Super Bowl, and it's hard to win a Super Bowl if you're paying number 10 or number 11, you know, top five money. It's hard.

Yeah. Well, he needs to be, if he's going to make big money, he needs to be the final piece on a team that has enough cap space because they've managed their roster well, but also has enough weapons where you can drive the car to a new level. I mean, San Francisco has been the most tantalizing what if example. And of course, now that he's available as a free agent, well, Brock Purdy led the league in like six different meaningful categories, and they're not going to move out Brock Purdy. But I think that's why the Falcons are like the Vikings aren't in a position where they can just bring Kirk back for $45 billion as the final piece to a Super Bowl team.

They have too many needs on defense. They've got offensive line problems. I mean, they're a good team, and they're going to compete for a playoff. spot. The Falcons are in a winnable division. They've got $35 million in cap space. They've got weapons everywhere, and they've got a top 10 pick. Super interesting. Like, if you plop a healthy Kirk Cousins down and then draft a badass wide receiver next to Drake London, Kyle Pitts, or one of these top edge rushers, are you winning 11 games winning that division in a wide open NFC? I mean, it's fascinating.

Yeah, and you mentioned it. It's the perfect offensive coordinator. It's the Kyle scheme with Zach Robinson, who was with Sean in L.A. And it's Raheim who knew Kirk and everybody loves Rahim. You know, the 49er thing, I think you probably know this and you guys have probably talked about it. I mean, Kyle offered number two overall in 2017, and Washington said no. I mean, at least you've had a normal organization during the Kirk experience. We had the most dysfunctional organization. Jay Suarez, Jay Gruden says it was more than number two overall.

He thinks it was multiple ones. And Snyder and Bruce Allen at the time would not trade Kirk to Kyle Shanahan. They did not want to see Kyle and Mike. And so they, you know, they cut off their nose to spite their face, which they did all the time here. And I think, you know, that would have been the best fit, ultimately, for him anyway. But, all right, so netting it out, fan base split after all of these years of Kirk, just like ours. It sounds to me like you wouldn't, I mean, there's a little trepidation,

but for the most part, you'd like to see the Vikings start over at that position, and you think he ends up in Atlanta. Yeah, unless he wants to sign for like $15 million, for all the reasons I just said. Boy, he's not going to do that. Which is clearly not going to happen because this is, you know, some guys like Patrick Mahomes shine the first two weeks in February. Kirk Cousin shines the first two weeks in March, baby.

This is his Super Bowl right now, but he's going to go get his bag of cash. And I do think it winds up being in Atlanta, and I think his time with, it's going to be crazy because his time with the Vikings is going to be two things rolled into one. On one hand, he's probably, I know I sometimes I troll Vikings fans and keep him outside my top five all-time Vikings quarterbacks. I'll put like 2009 Brett Farrve on the list at 1990s, Randall Cunningham. But he probably is based on statistics, the second best quarterback in Viking history. Behind Tarkington?

And, by the way, it's not a murderer's role list. It's a lot of stopgap guys like I just mentioned. But I think he might be this. You could say he's the second best quarterback in Viking history and that his time with the Vikings was a failure based on what the mission was when they signed him in 2018. I think those two things can sort of both hold a space of truth in the same thought bubble above Kirk Cousins of the Viking.

Wow. That's, you know what? Totally understood. It's hard to watch. It's correct. It's hard to watch. It's Kirk Cousins, right? Like, that's the conflict of Kirk Cousins right there.

It is. And yet, I mean, for those of us, and you've been a part of this, too, following him, there have been moments where I thought he was going to get over the hump or the team that he played for was going to get over the hump. And, you know, the Monday nighter against San Francisco this year, without Jefferson out there. And he was brilliant. And you mentioned the Green Bay game,

the next week. I think that they would have been, I actually think they would have been back in the postseason and they would have been playing huge games against the Lions late in the season for a division potentially. But like you said, there's always the what if with him. All right, this was great. I really appreciate it. It's going to be interesting to see if somebody had said to any NFL fan, at some point pretty soon, Kirk Cousins is going to be the most desirable free agent on the market with Russell Wilson out there. And by the way, apparently more attractive than even Justin Fields to the Falcons, because I thought Justin Fields to Atlanta would have made sense.

Yeah, I mean, go back two years, two or three years, and try to explain to someone, hey, not too far into the future. There's going to be a genuine debate over whether you'd rather have Russell Wilson for $1.2 million or Kirk Cousins for 40. Yeah, exactly. Right. And clearly teams would take Kirk for 40 right now instead of Russ. I think you're right.

Hey, thanks for doing this. Good catching up. I appreciate it. I'm excited for us to do this episode where it's you, me, and whoever the Falcons Media guy is in like three years. We can have a therapy session. Well, the good news is in three years, there won't be a fourth team. likely than not. It'll just be the three of us at that point as he turns 40 or approaches 40 years old.

Thanks, Phil. Appreciate it, as always. Thanks, Kevin. Perhaps a bit too much you know who talk for some of you, but Phil Mackey was great with us. At Phil Mackey on X on Twitter, the lead host of a very successful Vikings podcast called Purple Daily and another one called Score North. They do a great job with that. Look, bottom line is, I think he's right at this point. I think it's probably going to be Atlanta. It's, you know, something that I don't think Minnesota is going to be able to come close to in terms of the deal and probably the guaranteed dollars with the deal that Atlanta will offer. I still wouldn't give up hope if I were a Vikings fan that wanted him to stay in Minnesota, but it's not going to be Washington for all of the reasons we've talked about over the

last two days. And it sounds like Phil kind of understands what's been going on as well. The cousins team, they thrive in this situation this time of year, and his agent has done a phenomenal job for him throughout his NFL career. All right, we'll finish up with a few things when we come back right after these words from a few of our sponsors. This segment of the show brought to you by MyBooky. Go to MyBooky.orgie. Use my promo code, Kevin D.C., and they'll give you a cash bonus on your initial deposit. March is here.

March Madness right around the corner. They'll have everything you need for both the men's tournament and the women's tournament. Contests as well. It starts next week. It actually starts this weekend with some of the smaller conference tournaments, and then you get into the big conference tournaments next weekend. Selection Sunday is a week from this coming Sunday. All your March basketball betting needs can be served by MyBooky.

Fair numbers across the board, fair pricing, and everything that you need from point spreads to money lines to totals to prop bets on all of these games. Go to mybooky.ag, use my promo code, Kevin, D.C. So two things to finish up the show with today. One of which we could have gotten to at the end of yesterday's show, but Tommy and I were knee-deep in a conversation about contingency plans in the event of disaster for all of the four pro sports leagues. If you missed the last 15 minutes or so of the show yesterday, I think it was pretty informational.

Many of you thought the same, although Stephen tweeted, whatever that was at the end of the show, don't ever do it again. He did add a smiling and a winking emoji to that. But yeah, we talked about, I can't even remember, because it's been a whole day now, how we got into it,

but we talked about the league's contingency, plans in the event of a major disaster, like a plane going down. Knock on wood, you know, no, pray God. But if it were to happen, what are the plans for each of the pro sports leagues? They all have contingency plans for a disaster. So if you want to listen to that, go listen to that. In the meantime, I will move on to Russell Wilson. So I may have a slightly different take on Russ than some of you, but maybe not. And I'll start with the part that I think might be a little bit different. If I were a team that couldn't draft a quarterback because of where I'm picking or, you know, wasn't interested in paying big money for cousins or trading for Justin Fields, but I had a decent

team and I couldn't do something else, I would sign Russell Wilson. You know, league minimum, a million bucks. Denver's paying the freight. I think he played well last. year. I touted Denver during the course of the season. Remember, they started one and five in Sean Payton's first year, and then they went on a run. They won five games in a row, and they went five wins in a row against Green Bay, Kansas City, Buffalo on the Road, Minnesota, and Cleveland to get to six and five, and then they had a huge game, playoff ramifications game in early December at Houston that went down to the very end that they lost 22 to 17. But I thought Russ was playing good football.

I thought he was playing clutch football. Go look at that end of the Buffalo game, the fourth quarter of the Buffalo game. They needed points, drove them long distances in that environment on the road. They did a great job against Green Bay. I thought he was playing clutch football. I thought he was playing good football. He was starting to become a more willing runner. they were starting to incorporate more option and design runs into the mix,

which I think has always made him a better quarterback. If I were Pittsburgh or the Raiders and I couldn't get up in the draft or didn't make a move for cousins or fields, I would sign Russell Wilson. I would. Those two teams are good enough to contend. I mean, the Steelers weren't the playoffs. I just think that he's got some football left in him. I may be completely off on that.

I'm not, by the way, suggesting that Russell Wilson's like a top 10 quarterback. He's probably not even a top half of the league starter, but he was playing at that level during that stretch last year. He ended up with a season in which he threw for 26 touchdowns, eight interceptions, had a 66.4.4. completion percentage, second highest of his career, had a pastor rating that was like the fifth highest of his career, sixth highest of his career, something like that. Was he playing like he was back in Seattle when they had all the weapons around him? No. But, you know, he got to Denver

and they gave him a first time head coach and Nathaniel Hackett. They had a first time general manager and patent. They didn't have, they had a decent, you know, supporting around him. But look, I would sign him if I had a need for a quarterback and I thought I was decent quarterback play away from being a playoff team. And I think the Raiders and the Steelers can say that. You know, he'd compete with Kenny Pickett. I wouldn't hand him the job in Pittsburgh, but he will cost nothing. I think somebody will sign Russell Wilson. I thought he played well last year. I thought at times he looked like Russell Wilson playing quarterback, whereas in 2022, with Nathaniel Hackett, it was as bad as we've ever seen Russell Wilson. Now, with that said,

you got to deal with what comes with Russell Wilson. And who knows if he's learned anything about himself, if he's become a little bit more self-aware. But it's very obvious that you don't trade what Denver traded for him two years ago, give him a five-year extension, which was one of the largest extensions we've ever seen, and then cut him two years later at the greatest expense deadcap money wise in the history of the league if you don't despise this person. And we have read the stories about how aloof he was in Seattle. Remember, it was reported after the Denver trade about John Schneider offering Russell Wilson in 2016 to Cleveland for the number one overall pick in the draft. I mean, in 2016, this was heyday Russell Wilson.

I mean, they're contending for Super Bowls, and he wanted to get rid of him because he was such a divider, I guess. He was just so aloof. And the stories came out after he got traded to Denver. and then the stories came out about his first year in Denver. He's got his own office. He's being treated like, you know, royalty. Sean Payton came in and said, you know, we're not doing this with Russ. He's either going to be a part of us.

We're not doing separate offices. We're not doing separate parking spaces. We're not doing this with him anymore. He can only blame himself for the position that he's in. you know, because if the football were all that this was about, they wouldn't have done this. Russell Wilson is clearly difficult. And so when I advocated that somebody should sign them, I'm talking about the football player and then talking about a situation like an Antonio Pierce or like a Mike Tomlin

where maybe the situation could be managed differently. Sean Payton had no patience for it, none. even though he was playing better football and they were playing better as a team. I mean, that team was terrible to start the year. I mean, the first two games, remember, was a one-point loss to the Raiders where they missed an extra point,

and then they lost to Washington by two. Russ through the Hail Mary, they missed on the two-point conversion, may have been past interference on that two-point conversion, which would have forced overtime. And then they got beat by Miami 70 to 20, I think it was. by 50, and then they turned it around.

It was a good football team for that stretch of games. And I thought he was playing good football, you know, not top 10 football, not top half of the league or somewhere around there. I don't know what you're getting with him at this point, but if you get what you got last year and you utilize him as a dual threat at times, I think it's better than Mason Rudolph. It might not be better than Kenny Pickett. I think it's better than whatever the Raiders.

I mean, Aiden O'Connell was their starter at the end of last year. Garoppolo is suspended right for a couple of games. I would do it. I thought he played well last year. The other thing that I wanted to get to real quickly was the Wizards are one game away. The Wizards are one game away from setting the franchise, tying the franchise mark for losses in a row. They lost their 15th in a row last night when they lost to Utah, 127, 115.

They did not make a shot from the field in the final five minutes in 10 seconds of the game. And they are now 9 and 52 overall, worst record in the league by a half game over the Pistons. They play Orlando. Orlando's been playing well. They should lose that game at home. And then to set the franchise mark, which would be. be 17 losses in a row. They've got Charlotte on Friday night. Charlotte's terrible too. This is good news for those of us that care even a little bit about one day perhaps having a real

NBA team to get excited about. They have a couple of young players. I've talked about them. Balal Kulabali, their first round pick looks like a player. It looks like they got it right there. I think Denny Avdia is a future NBA All-Star. I said it. He's just getting better and better. And I think Kyle Kuzma is really good. And, you know, if they have the ability to add a couple of big pieces in the draft in the next couple of years, Kuzma could be 30, 31, 32 years old and be the veteran on a team that has a chance to contend.

or win 45 or 50 games. You know, right now, if the season ended, they'd have the best odds of having the number one overall pick. This draft, the 2024 draft in June, doesn't have a consensus number one. You know, they've got, there are a couple of French players, there are a couple of Kentucky players, there's the kid from Colorado,

but there's no consensus number one. The draft that they want to have number one in is the 2025 draft, which right now is consensus Cooper Flag, who's going to Duke next year, or 2026, where one of the Boozer sons, Carlos Boozer sons, is projected to be the number one overall in that draft. You know, these next three drafts for the Wizards, they've got to land that top five potential player in the league. And then the supporting cast is coming together a little bit. They're not a good team. They're a terrible team.

They're awful on defense at times. But there actually, there's some talent there with Avdia and Kulibali. I'm talking about for a future that has a star on it, maybe a young star. We'll see. But one game away from tying the franchise, lost mark, two away from setting it. They scored 75 points in the first half last night and 40 in the second half. They can actually really score. They play fast.

But they didn't score in the second half. All right, that's it. Back tomorrow with Tommy.