The Kevin Sheehan Show - Williams, Daniels, Or Maye?

Episode Date: February 7, 2024

Kevin and his guest Logan Paulsen gave their respective "Top 3 QB's in the NFL Draft" on the show today. Logan was also on to discuss his days in Atlanta with Dan Quinn and his thoughts on the kind of offense Kliff Kingsbury will lead. Kevin quickly recapped Maryland's disappointing loss at home to Rutgers as well.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheon Show is Kevin. One guest on the show today, Logan Paulson will be on with us. Logan played for Dan Quinn back in 2018. He was also in the 49ers organization briefly when Adam Peters was there. Always love having Logan on the show. I know many of you do as well. Logan Paulson coming up in the next seven. The show, as always, presented by Window Nation. Call them at 86690 Nation or head to Window Nation.com. Mention my name. You'll get a free estimate. Please rate us and review us if you get an opportunity on Apple and Spotify. It's very helpful.

This review made me laugh out loud. It came from Browski Bro. He gave us five stars. And he titled his review, love Dan Quinn or get out? Question mark exclamation point. Love the show, but very preachy on Dan Quinn. Feels very get on board with Dan Quinn or get out.

Smiley face. I see what you did there. Yes, I am not telling you to get on board with Dan Quinn or get out. I get the joke and I appreciate that. There was a lot of, for a few years here, the most recent years, was a lot of lecturing from a lot of the fans. Get on board with Taylor Heineke or get out. Get on board with Carson Wentz or get out. Get on board with EB or get out. No, I'm not telling you to get on board with Dan Quinn or get out. In fact, I will tell you, I have a good

feeling about Dan Quinn, but I have no idea what to expect. I do know that they like Dan Quinn a lot. And that's what I've been preachy about the last couple of days more than anything else. But anyway, Browski Bro continues. You keep talking about how successful he was in Atlanta. But at the time, you and Cooley had repeated discussions on if Atlanta should be the first team to swap slash fire the head coach to hire the OC, attributing most of the success to Kyle, as in Kyle Shanahan. I don't hate the hire, but also don't feel like I need to say the team got it right just because we are giving the crew the benefit of the doubt. So I absolutely remember Cooley's saying on the air that Sean McVeigh should be considered to be the head coach with Jay Gruden being demoted to the offensive coordinator spot.

I still to this day can't believe he said that. but that's how strongly he felt about Sean McVey. Cooley was the first person to say about Sean McVey. Sean was not the O.C. I think he was the tight ends coach. He said there's a guy in the building, Sean McVeigh, coach is tight ends. The minute he gets a head coaching interview, he will be hired immediately. I remember at the time Cooley's saying he will be a head coach within the next five years.

I don't even think it took him five years before he got the gig. But, you know, as Sean became the offensive coordinator, Cooley really, you know, pumped up Sean as a guy that he felt would make a good head coach and that they shouldn't let leave the building. I don't remember the Kyle Shanahan conversation, but I'm not disputing it because it's definitely a conversation that he would have had similar to the one that he had about McVeigh because he felt the same way about Convue. Kyle Shanahan. I don't remember feeling that way specifically, although I was a big Kyle and Mike

fan. And yeah, it's not about whether or not the team got it right. I think they got it right for them right now. Only time will tell as to whether or not it was the right higher. I mean, we've got to wait for results. We've got to wait for games and many games. But yes, of course, Once they start playing, once they start doing things that are more football oriented that we, as fans of football, can see with our own eyes versus like an assistant offensive coordinator, Willie or won't he be a great head coach, and Adam Peters, who's never been a general manager, will he or won't he? I am in benefit of the doubt mode. And that leads me to this. I got several people who didn't necessarily say it was preachy, but who have sensed from me over the last couple of days

that I'm kind of back on board. Let me just read this from Raymond. Raymond sent me on Twitter on X. Kevin, you love this team again. Heard it the last few days, especially in your arguing with Tom, who I think you started to turn around. Let's go!

Exclamation point. Having something to feel for is better than not feeling. That's deep. By the way, there's no chance I turned Tom around at all. I haven't turned Tom around on anything in years. He is stubborn to a fault, clearly. And even when he is clearly wrong, it's tough to get him to. admit it. It used to be a lot easier

to get him to admit it, but I think he's getting older now and even more curmudgently. No, Tom is very open-minded about a lot of things, but he's hell-bent on this, you know, process being more

of a for-show process than anything else. And then he's hung up now, excuse me, right now on they didn't get their guy. I mean, this is honestly the one thing over the last couple of days that has irritated me the most because I've even had follow-up conversations with some of the people that I talked to a few weeks ago.

John Kime was on the radio show today. Kime said, I just said, so do you feel that they, you know, how do you respond to the people who say that they settled for Dan Quinn? And he said, I say that they have not talked to anybody in the know about the, hiring process. I actually had somebody, you know, suggest to me that there are only a few people who have gotten this right, and I'm one of them. Yes, and Kime was the other, and I think there was somebody else nationally. Maybe it was Schaefter. That's the one thing with Tommy that I'm frustrated about, is that he just, for whatever reason, it's a better column to suggest that they botched it,

I guess, for him anyway. For me, it's always been, you know, Either way, if they get it right or botch it, you know, it's going to be good content. But they did not botch this. And anybody that suggests it really doesn't know what they're talking about and wasn't talking to anybody. As I've said to people who have pushed back, I've said, why would someone in a conversation, which I then confirmed, offer up how well Dan Quinn interviewed and how pumped up they were about Dan Quinn and how high he was. on their list when there was no concern at the time about the coaching search from anybody, media fans or anybody else. I mean, this was two and a half weeks ago.

Nobody was talking about how they were botching the coaching search. Nobody was trying to spin it from their direction. Anyway, Raymond, I, it's not, I'm not, I'm not all back in emotionally, but I've never been that far away from wanting them to be a functional or. organization. I mean, part of it is selfish. It's better for me. It's better for all of us that talk about this stuff if they are, you know, a well-functioning organization with a chance to win. But I did get others that felt the same way you did to a certain degree. This was from Steve, unless I don't know you as well as I think I do from listening to you over the years,

I'd say that you were the most optimistic you've been since, you know who was here. L-O-L. Am I right? you know who as in Kirk Cousins. That was an Al Galdi description. I always have to give Al some credit for that because that was funny because he was on the podcast, I don't know, maybe a year ago now. And he just said, well, we can't say his name. I refer to him as you know who. Yeah, I was optimistic when Kirk was here. But I also was not optimistic about organizationally them having the ability to have sustained success as long as Dan was.

in the organization running it as the owner. I guess, you know, I kind of felt like eventually they would mess up the cousin's situation, which they did. Completely messed it up in so many different ways. This from David, Shee and I hear it in your voice, you're back in. Surprise that it was Quinn that did it for you, but glad to have you back. It's not just Quinn that has me feeling, if true, more optimistic. and I am more optimistic.

That is true. I'm more optimistic because Dan's gone. They have a traditional NFL structure for the first time. Owner, GM, coach. And the owner, at least as we see it right now, isn't the last owner. A, B, he's not a meddling owner based on what we've heard about him in Philadelphia with the 76ers and with the devils.

in the NHL. And so it's nice to have a traditional NFL structure for the first time since Charlie Casserly was in the organization. And then, as I've said a few times already, if I told you three weeks ago, they're going to get the number one general manager this hiring cycle, Adam Peters. He's the most sought after guy for anybody that has a general manager front office opening. You're going to get him, and then you're going to get a coach that's near the top of the list of coaches that you desire, who, by the way, is the best leader of all of the people, or at least from a known standpoint,

the best leader of the people that you were interviewing. And you've said that's what you want. If I told you that three weeks ago, best GM and one of your top choices, if not your top choice, as a head coach, I mean, even if Dan Quinn was the second choice or the third choice, it's a successful last three weeks. I think they deserve an applause for what they got done. This is not the most desirable place still. It's not.

You know, yes, it's without Dan Snyder. Yes, they've got draft choices in cap space. But also, yes, they've got a shiddle. stadium. They have subpar facilities out in Ashburn. They're years away from a new stadium. They are chasing a fan base that pretty much departed over the last 10 years. And there's just been a lot of stench attached to this group in recent years. And a lot of the younger guys in particular that were up for jobs or up for GM openings. Remember, you know, they, somebody mentioned, well, it's just that they move so quickly on Peters and they didn't move so quickly on the coaching search. Okay, well,

it's not like Adam Peters was the only one they interviewed. We were told by our good friend Howard Gutman. Back in the summer, I remember Howard saying this specifically about Mitch Rails in particular and how he perceived this group would behave as owners. He said, they are going to be thorough. There isn't going to be anything impulsive about this group. They're going to be deliberative. They're going to be meticulous. They are going to be thorough. That's why they didn't fire Ron Rivera, you know, on July 31st or August 2nd. That's why they didn't fire him during the season. What was really the point? Who were you going to hire in the middle of the season? Everybody that you ended up interviewing was employed. You, I mean, you certainly could

and named somebody the interim coach, they didn't lose out because they didn't fire Ron Rivera in the middle of the season. They were never going to hire the coach first anyway. They were always going to hire the general manager first, which I also like about what they did. They didn't do anything ass backwards. But I don't know. I'm losing my train of thought. I just think that you know, from the moment that they took over, I knew that the beginning of their football ownership would begin at the end of the 20-23 season when Ron Rivera was fired, more likely than not, because those were the odds on, that was the odds on favorite when the season began. And, you know, hopefully they were going to hire a general manager and they were then going to

hire a coach and they were going to turn it over to these people and you were going to have owner, GM coach. And then here we are after that process started at the end, at the beginning of January, and you got the number one GM on the market and you got one of your top choices as a coach. And then the coordinators, I don't have any problem with the coordinators right now. but to David, it's not just Quinn that got me optimistic. It's everything that I just described. And with respect to Quinn and Peters and everybody else, I have no idea how it will turn out.

I was impressed with Quinn. That's true from the press conference. I really felt like he was, you know, genuine, that he was a guy that, wasn't into telling anybody what they wanted to hear, which is what we got for the last four years, a lot of it. And I also really liked what I saw in terms of the Peters-Quinn relationship or the potential for that relationship.

I think Peter's got the right guy for him. You know, he is more of the talent-evaluating type of GM. I don't think he's the front person. you know, in terms of the lead communicator, he will, and it'll have to be, you know, around the draft and around free agency. But I think for him, not only did they have this shared vision that they talked about, but in Dan Quinn, he's got a guy that's led before. He's got a guy that's been a primary communicator in the organization before. I just thought that fit seemed like a good one, especially for Peters.

Anyway, did you see this story? Eric B. Enemy, according to Andy Reed, sat in on meetings with the Chiefs prior to the AFC title game in Baltimore. Patrick Mahomes said, it's always great to have E.B. in the building, just being there and the energy that he brings and the mentality that he brings. He loves being there. He loves being a part of the team and being a part of the culture. So just having him back in the building was really cool. And listening to him talk and his energy, I think guys had a little bit of chill bumps. Like, hey, we got E.B. back here.

Hey, they went into Baltimore and won. Maybe Eric B. Enemy had something to do with it. He also said, obviously, he didn't get that head coaching opportunity, but I'm excited for him to continue to coach football and continue to make his impact on the game. I'm wondering, by the way, and it's not specified whether or not he was with them in Kansas City or he was with them in Baltimore when they arrived for the AFC title game. Not that it makes a massive difference, just curiosity.

Now, with respect to him going back to Kansas City, this is what Andy Reid said. I think his coaching future is great. I'm obviously a big fan of his, and I know the things that he can do. but he did not, as the ESPN story writes, sound optimistic about Bianami returning to the chiefs in some capacity, saying, quote, I have no spot right now, closed quote. Anyway, interesting that Bianami was with the chiefs. We shall see on Bianami's future.

I still think there's a really good chance. It ends up being back in college next year. if anywhere. I don't think he's going to be an offensive coordinator in the NFL. It's always possible, even though Andy Reid did not sound super optimistic about bringing him back, that if there's nowhere for BNME to go, that Reed might bring him back. Before we get to Logan Paulson, I wanted to give you, as of today, with the ability to change my mind.

between now and the draft. I wanted you to hear what my top three quarterbacks in order were for the NFL draft. Caleb Williams, Jaden Daniels, Drake May, those three are being discussed, obviously in the top three. And I had a chance just to watch more of Drake May recently. I feel like I've seen almost every snap of Jaden Daniels' career, certainly every snap or most snaps this year. I've seen a lot of Caleb Williams, as we all have. But I watched more of Drake May. And so I'm going to give you my quarterback order as of today and the reasons why.

I'll ask Logan for his, too, when we have him on because I know that he has been watching, I think, more college tape. We'll find out when we have him on. So number one for me is Caleb Williams. Now, let me just make sure and preface what I'm my top three with. I don't know anything about them personally. These are the things that will be very important to the evaluators. We talk about this all the time. We're not sitting in on the meetings.

We're not talking to coaches and players and friends and family members and all the, we're not running background checks on any of these guys. All the stuff that NFL teams have to do before they invest heavily into any player at any position. But in particular, a position that comes with so much importance and so much of it being based on character and the kind of person and the kind of work ethic, et cetera. So without knowing any of that, for me, Caleb Williams is number one. You just aren't going to get many quarterbacks coming out in the draft that can do the things that he can do. He's special, talent-wise. He can make every throw. He can make every throw from

every arm angle. He is a creator off-schedule. Maybe one of the best. He's special. He's a best of best we've seen in college football in recent years. There's nothing about this last year that I hold him accountable for. USC had a terrible defense in 2022, and they had an even worse defense in 2023. That team had no chance of being as good as they were in 2022, which was a season in which they went to the Pact 12 championship game, lost to Utah, big, and then lost, by the way, in the Cotton Bowl to Tulane, 46, 45. But they got to 11 and one overall with a one point lost to Utah in the regular season, and they thought they had a chance to make it up in that Pac-12 championship game, which would have put them into the playoff had they won that or given them a chance. But Williams was

brilliant that year. They had no chance without him. If you, just from, forget the fact that I know you probably watched a lot of Caleb Williams in 2022. I mean, they basically had to score 40 plus to win games. And they did. This year was even worse. I mean, they, you know, they won a game over Arizona, 4341 in overtime. They beat Cal 50 to 49. Their defense couldn't stop anybody.

They were right there with a chance to beat Washington, Washington, who ended up in the national championship game, 52-42 final. They couldn't get a stop to save their life. that game. They gave up nearly 600 yards. Caleb had 312 and three touchdowns in that game. He is special in every way, shape, and form. He isn't super tall. You know, you may, I don't know that he plays to his height. In fact, I'd say he plays a little bit bigger than his height. He's 6-1 and 220, 2-15 right around there. But the, the, the, the, the, the things he does are, to me, in terms of the players that play today, the comp is Mahomes.

The comp is Mahomes. He's got the big arm. He can make every throw. He can make it from, as I said, every angle. He can make it from one hash to the far hash. It doesn't matter. He throws with great touch. I think he's a good decision maker. I do think the one thing you could say about Caleb Williams is that on occasion, on occasion, he'll try to be too creative when there's a simple checkdown or a simple play that could end up being a big enough play. And he'll go full on. Let me just try to create a highlight reel play here. But he's the most gifted overall of the three. Number two for me is Jaden Daniels. And I know that I've talked about him all year later. probably driven some of you nuts all year long.

But I just think that Jaden Daniels has been the most electrifying player to watch in college football the last couple of years this year for sure. You know, if you want to say Caleb Williams in 2022, but there's a difference. Like Jaden Daniels, Caleb Williams can run. There's no doubt about it. And he can move around and create and extend and extend and then make plays with his arms. Daniels can too. Daniels chose to run more often than not. But I talked about them all season long and told you guys you should be watching this dude

because when he wasn't even listed as a first round possibility, even early in the season, you know, when they got beat by Florida State in that first Sunday night game Labor Day weekend, he was not a projected first round pick. And then the games against Mississippi State, I think it was Arkansas and Ole Miss, which they lost in a shootout, was when I said, there's just no way this guy isn't a first round pick. And then, you know, after the Missouri comeback, I think I came in here that week,

or it was with Denton on radio and I said, I think this guy's going to be in the top 10 or even higher by the time we get to the draft. And then after the first half, he played against Alabama before getting hurt, I thought there was a chance he could be the number one overall because it was in that game in the first half of the Alabama game in Tuscaloosa that I said, this guy's got to win the Heisman trophies, the best player in college football, period.

My concerns, I've expressed them all year. I have one more than any other, and that is he's thin. His frame is a skinny build. He's 6'4. He's towering. He runs 4344. He's got great open field vision. anybody that tells you that he's an RG3 type has not watched or not watched closely enough.

He has great feel, great peripheral vision as a runner, as in the pocket as well feel in the pocket. He can make every single throw. I do think there were times this year where he settled to run too quickly. I'm not sure that that wasn't a part of the offense. It may have been Brian Kelly saying progression. One, two, create. Three is create, get on the move. Make something happen.

Number three for me is Drake May. I think Drake May is really intriguing. I do. And I think his size and his arm strength, and by the way, his mobility, he's mobile too. And he's a tough-ass competitor. There's a lot that I like about Drake May. But man, not to make this about Sam Howell,

because they're two totally different physical specimens. All right. Drake May is 6-4-235. All right. Sam Howell, did you guys see the picture of the two of them at the Duke Carolina game that went around on the internet on Twitter? I mean, Drake May made Sam Howell look like a seventh grader. I mean, this is what I said all year long. I said, not only is Sam Howell short, he plays short. And I think that's one of the problems. But one of the things you see with Drake May, I think, at Carolina, and maybe it's just the system, I don't know. I mean, they have. a different offensive coordinator this year. Phil Longo left Chapel Hill went to Wisconsin. If you miss Phil yesterday talking about his friend Cliff Kingsbury, that's a good episode to go back,

a good interview to go back and listen to. Or that was from Monday Show, actually. Drake May sometimes holds it too long. Sometimes makes throws that you're just like, where are you throwing it? And it's late. And the decision making he'll make sometimes, even while he's creating. I don't think the accuracy is there all of the time. Now, I will confess to you, I've watched less games of Drake May than I have Caleb Williams and certainly less than Jaden Daniels.

You know, there's a game this year. They played UVA. Well, if you go to the end of the year, the game against NC State, he was not good in at all. That was not a great football game. overall other than the big run that he had for a touchdown in that game. He had a, well, he had a 50-some-odd-yard run that set up a touchdown in that game. But they got whooped by NC State.

They lost their last two, you know, Clemson beat him pretty handily, and NC State beat him. That NC State game was not a good game, and it was not a good decision game for him. He played a game against UVA this season. He was 24 or 48. 50% through a pick, could have had more. And it was a bad loss for a Carolina team that was at that moment ranked 10th in the country. Look, there are a lot of issues in that team the last few years, including the teams that Sam Hal played on. They just weren't very good defensively and haven't been for a while. I actually thought early in the year this year they were better.

I think his decision-making sometimes and his lack of consistency with accuracy is what would concern me about Drake May. But other than that, he can play. Don't get me wrong. And it could be system. And he could be just, you know, a flower that hasn't bloomed yet because physically he looks the part. So Caleb's one, Daniels is two, and Drake May is three for me. I didn't get into the others. My gut would tell me that I would probably have Bo Nix 4, Penix 5, and McCarthy 6.

I just don't get it with McCarthy. But on the top three, let me also emphasize something. I think Jaden Daniels is much closer to 1 to Caleb Williams than Drake May is to Jaden Daniels. I think there is a much tighter gap between 1 and 2. and much more distance between two and three. I definitely have Drake May as number three. Daniels is number two, but if they ended up with Daniels,

because let's just say all of the intangible stuff was in his favor more than it was in Caleb's, I would be so excited to see him. Concerned about his frame, for sure. I am concerned about that. You know, Anthony Richardson, who I loved coming out last year and looked really good in those games, he's a big Cam Newton type of body almost, and he got hurt. So that would be a concern, certainly, with Daniels.

And then you'd want to see him in a deeper progression offense as an in-the-pocket passer, because you didn't have a lot of that at LSU, and when you had it, it was just because he had so much time. and had great receivers, which he did have. Two first rounders more likely than not at LSU. All right, before we get to Logan Paulson, two more things. I wanted you to hear some sound from various people out in Las Vegas about Dan Quinn, Adam Peters, and Cliff Kingsbury.

The first person you're going to hear from is Kyle Shanahan, the head coach of the San Francisco 49ers, who knows Adam Peters very well, obviously, because Peters was in the organization with him the last several years in San Francisco and also knows Dan Quinn very well because he coached for Dan Quinn as the offensive coordinator for the 2016 NFC champion Atlanta Falcons. Kyle was asked about the hirings in Washington out in Vegas. Here's what he said.

I'm so pumped for Dan. I'm still pumped for Washington. Dan's a hell of a coach. They got a hell of a one. I know they've gone through a lot of stuff in his last 20 years. years but having AP and DQ is as good as the gifts. Like Dan taught me so much in Atlanta. I'm very grateful for how much he's helped my career and him and Stacy and just what he's going to do for their organization. No one Adam, no in Jen, like they're set up very well.

Pretty unusual for Kyle Shanahan to say anything nice about anything here in Washington, although there really hasn't been much to compliment over the years. But those were nice, kind words about Adam Peters and Dan Quinn and understanding, as he and his father certainly do, the plight of this franchise and its fan base over the last 20-plus years. This was actually the quarterback of those 2016 Falcons, Matt Ryan, weighing in on the hiring of Dan Quinn. It was, you know, my first time in the NFL when Dan came in going through a coaching change.

And with that, you know, it comes to shake up in your routine. And, you know, it's different people in the building. You got all these new people. So it was the most turnover that I had ever felt. There was also a lot of turnover on our roster. And so it was me being in the same building for a long time, but it was a lot of different people and learning a new culture, a new way of doing things. You know, but he made you comfortable really quickly. And I think that's one of his greatest strengths is that he makes guys comfortable, free to be themselves, and free to play the way that they're capable of.

I'm pumped for him and Stacy. You made Dallas the right time for him to get a second chance? Dan, Quinn? Yeah, absolutely. You know, I always, in my opinion, I always thought he would be a head coach again. And I thought he did a great job in Dallas. I know, you know, there was criticism of the last playoff game. But if you look at his time and what they did on the defensive side of the ball,

I mean, he showcased what kind of coach he is, right? And I'm not surprised at all that he's got another opportunity. I think we're going to be hard pressed to find anybody that's critical of the Dan Quinn hiring here in D.C. Certainly not from people in football, maybe media covering it, but not anybody in football. And yes, I know it was similar when Ron Rivera got hired. here in 2020. Lastly, I want you to hear from Patrick Mahomes. Patrick Mahomes played for Cliff Kingsbury at Texas Tech in 2014, 2015, and 2016. Here's what he said about his college coach. Yeah, just a great person, man. Someone that truly loves a game of football,

works his hell off every single day, and gets the best out of his guys, especially his quarterbacks. And so I'm excited for him to have another opportunity in the NFL. I thought he did a job in Arizona, especially with the offense. And so I think he'll do a great job in Washington, getting that offense going. 32 games, two and a half seasons for Patrick Mahomes playing under Cliff Kingsbury in Lubbock during those years, 11,252 yards passing, 93 touchdowns. They were awfully productive together in college. The problem was defense. Texas Tech couldn't stop anybody. a lot of the big 12 teams couldn't stop anybody. They still can't, even to this day, although there's better defense than there was during that era.

Anyway, nice things said by Kyle Shanahan, Matt Ryan, and Patrick Mahomes about Washington's recent hires. All right, one more thing, and then we will get to Logan Paulson. This is for all of us who are Maryland basketball fans. Last night, brutal loss. 5653 at home to Rutgers. Any faint long shot, hopes of making an at-large run to the NCAA tournament are pretty much on ice now.

They needed to win six or seven of their final nine, but in those you had to win at home when you were a big favorite, and they were an eight-point favorite last night. I knew they were in trouble when their defense, which has just been outstanding this year. They're one of the top 10 defensive teams in America. And they turned Rutgers over 12 times in the first half.

And they only led by two at halftime, 24 to 22. Their problem all season long hasn't been defense. Defensively, they are well-coached. They are tenacious. They have good individual defenders. They've got a rim protector. On offense, it's the opposite. They've got one player capable of being a consistent score.

and nobody else. And even last night, Jemir Young, who's been on a tear on the road, struggled at home against a Rutgers team that's pretty good defensively. Steve Pichael's teams have always been pretty good defensively. He was three of 17 from the floor, had five turnovers too, and scored 16 points. So they were two for 18 from behind the arc. They were lucky to have a chance. There was a technical foul called against a Rutgers' player when they were up nine. It was a stupid call. Not the brightest thing to do by the player, but it wasn't technical foul worthy. Maryland got a beneficial whistle down the stretch and still couldn't take advantage of it. So this is going to be a year in which Maryland is not going to be

a participant in March Madness. And yeah, last night that crowd was limited. It's 630 start Rutgers, not a good Maryland team. I understand all of those things. But Maryland has become, as much as I hate to say it, they've become one of those products in town, sports products in town, that are very much like the others, and that is bandwagon. When they're good, people are into it, people are at the games. It really doesn't matter if it's a 630 start or an 8 o'clock start, although the 630 starts are tough for Maryland basketball. Well fans. They are the only Big Ten school in a major metropolitan area with a traffic problem like we have. And Maryland sits right off the beltway. So it's not easy to get to a 630 game. And if they're playing Rutgers and they're not very good, you're just not going to get many people

to show up. But they've become a bandwagon team. And it wasn't always that way. I mean, I've said this many times over the years. There was certainly a time. And now it's getting very much in the rearview mirror like, you know, five, ten years ago where Maryland basketball was the hardest ticket other than a skins ticket in town. This was before the skins tickets became very easy to get. Not so much anymore. It is not feeling great. I give them all the credit in the world for playing really hard. This is not a team that is given up on anything. They play really hard. They are just so deficient and limited on offense. They need offensive players. They didn't keep Ian Martinez. A lot of you would probably roll your eyes at that, but he is tearing it up at Utah State,

who's ranked 24th in the country. He's having a big season, and that was a late NIL transfer portal bolt that caught Maryland off guard, and it's hurt him this year. Hakeem Hart, playing at Villanova, not at Maryland, has hurt them this year. But it doesn't matter. That's on the program to get players in. You can't be Maryland in the Big Ten and struggle to score 50 points on as many nights as they've struggled to score 50 points. I know the Big Ten is a grinded out league, but they were 17 of 54 from the field, two of 18 from behind the arc, and Julian Reese was three of nine from the free throw line. It was ugly, ugly offensive. basketball. A shame. I was kind of hoping they could make a small little run here over the next week

and have a couple of big games with a chance to legitimately get back into the hunt against Illinois and Wisconsin, but it's looking more and more like they will be playing out the string versus playing for anything significant this year. Anyway, all right, let me tell you real quickly about MyBooky. Go to MyBooky.ag. Use my promo code, Kevin D.C. They've got everything you need for the Super Bowl 300 plus prop bets. Current line on the game, San Francisco minus 2 at MyBooky, with the total remaining at 47.5. If you use my promo code, Kevin D.C., and put it in, just like I described it,

Kevin, D.C., you'll get a cash bonus on your initial deposit. MyBooky.ag promo code Kevin D.C. Logan Paulson right after these words from a few of our sponsors. This segment of the show with Logan Paulson, our guest, is brought to you by Window Nation. Call them at 86690 Nation or head to Windonation.com. Mention my name, Kevin Sheehan, and you'll get a free in-home estimate. You'll also get access to one of their best deals of the year, which features 50% off on all windows any style.

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when they make the window installations. I've been working with them for 14 years. They're the best. You're not going to find a better company to work with, nor will you find a better product or a better current offer. 86690 Nation, windownation.com. Paulson jumping on with us right now. Always a favorite for so many of you. Logan played tight end in the NFL for nine, ten seasons and played for Dan Quinn in Atlanta in the 2018 season, which is why we're having Logan on right now. Logan does great work on the Washington Commanders, you know, YouTube channel, the website. And, you know, look, I always love talking to coaches and Logan's a high school football coach.

He's continuing to stay in the game, and that's, I think, one of the reasons his insight is still so relevant and so good. So with that introduction, let's just start with that. That was very nice for you. Thank you, Kevin. Let's just start. Well, I mean it. Let's start with Dan Quinn.

You played for him. What are we getting in Dan Quinn here? Yeah, I don't know if everybody's watched the press conference, but I think you're getting that guy. I mean, that's authentically him. I think what that guy is is a guy that understands culture at the highest level. Like I've said this numerous places, but I never had more fun going to work every day than when I was Atlanta. You know, obviously from a head coaching position.

Like I really enjoyed my time with Kyle in San Francisco. I really enjoyed my time in Chicago because of the position coach I had there, but from a cultural perspective, a guy that just understood how to make it fun and relate to guys at the highest level. I think that's what you're getting. And I think the other thing about Dan that I've always appreciated, you know, in my year and a half interaction with him was that he was always a guy who was looking to get better and looking to improve

and I think you saw that in the press conference as well. I think he was a guy that said, you know, I did this really, you know, like an introspective analysis of my time in Atlanta and why it didn't go well. And I came up with some solutions and I wanted to make sure I to do that again. And I think it's so hard for, you know, head coaches, guys who are supposed to have all the answers all the time to say, man, I didn't have the right one here and get that corrected.

So I think there's a special person that can lead the way he leads, but also be humble enough to say, hey, I've got a mistake here, and let me get this corrected. So I think you're getting a very, very special coach, but also I think probably more importantly, like a very special human being. Average minds think alike, Logan,

because that's exactly the way I described the press conference yesterday, saying that it was authentic, it was genuine. I really thought the guy that I was watching was the guy that we will get here for the next few years, and I liked him. You said culture. Can you be more specific about what culture, good culture means in an NFL organization or, you know, on the football side of an NFL organization? Well, I think it depends on the organization and the situation.

But I think, you know, like one of the reasons I say Atlanta was a good culture is I felt like the guys cared about each other. They cared about winning. They cared about working hard. And the coaches cared about the players. And they brought a tremendous amount of energy each and every day. into that process and to the process of winning. So I think that, to me, defines a good culture. You know, Mike's culture here when I was in Washington was a little bit different.

You know, it was a little bit more hands-off, a little bit more mature in a sense. Like, and what I mean by that, it was just kind of like, I trust you to be adults. The locker room at the time was composed of older guys, and so that they were able to kind of handle that culture, set the standards, set the work standards, set the physical standard of practice. And it was a great culture to be a part of it. And obviously it's different. So I think, you know, one of the things that Dan pointed out was it's like, you know, I'm a piece of the culture. I help define the culture.

But ultimately, like, I have to empower the people, the players, the coaches in the building outside of myself to define and create their own culture. And I think that's the thing about this dynamic here with Dan that's so unique. It's like you always hear, oh, this guy's a culture builder. This guy's a – and, you know, Harbaugh has a culture – Bill Belichick has a culture very different. But I think a true culture happens organically, and it's created by the people you bring into the building. So I think that's why in the press conference I was so impressed that he kept referencing, you know, Adam Peters' involvement in the culture and bringing the right type of people into the building. You know, they want guys that love football, the tough guys, right? And I just think back to 2012, you know, that was the most success I ever had played in the NFL.

And we had tough leaders. We had guys that set a standard in practice. London Fletcher is one that comes to mind every single time I think about not wanting to do something. I'm like, London wouldn't let that slide. And so I think, like, that's a huge part. of it. So again, this is maybe not the answer you're looking for, but I think it's a flexible thing. I think it's defined by the people we have in the building. And I think I'm really glad that Dan understands that. Yeah, caring about each other, caring about winning, caring about

working hard. That all makes sense. And I was going to mention to you just the Adam Peters thing. One of my takeaways, and I want to get your take on it, and I thought it was a bit of a theme to the introductory press conference, was it's not about scheme, it's not about plays, it's about a player trait. It's about certain traits they want in players. He called it the secret sauce, Dan Quinn did. Adam Peters referred to the silent tape when you put it on. And as they were talking about it, both in the exact same way almost, multiple times. I just thought, of Debo Samuel and George Kittle, more than some of the Dallas players, to be honest with you. Just guys that in recent years, I've referred to the 49ers as someone who's watched the NFL's entire life. I don't think I've ever seen a team that's harder to tackle,

like they've had so many players that are just impossible to get to the ground with one or two people. And I thought of those guys. They want hard, physical, you know, and competitive as hell. And that stood out to me that they're on the same page in terms of what the actual roster should look like. Yeah, no, I think that's extremely important.

I'm really glad you brought up San Francisco because I think that's maybe the best example that I've seen in recent history of guys, of a staff, Adam Peters, John Lynch, Kyle Shannon, understanding that secret sauce, that silent tape. Because I know everybody looks for players, like that, but finding players

that they fit your offensive coach's vision, and that are actually that way, I think, is really challenging. So I don't know what their process was for finding those guys, but finding tough guys that love football. I mean, that's like the gold standard for any talent evaluation. I do my draft stuff every single year. I've gotten

through about 100 guys so far. And, you know, they're all good football players, but the ones that are going to be special in elevate your roster and take you the next level are the guys that are competitive, that are fighters that love the game, that are passionate, about getting better. You can see that on film,

and I think that's what San Francisco is. There are a whole roster of people built that way. I think there's a reason Detroit looks a certain way. I think there's a reason that Baltimore looks a certain way, right? Because they have a bunch of guys like that. I think it's interesting that they're able to find those pieces and make them fit within the schematic elements and schematic parameters of what they're defining.

So I love the fact that Dan Quinn and Adam Peters are on the same page with regard to that vision. Another thing I love about what Dan said was like, I want guys with special traits that fit that quality, I want the corner with 34-inch arms. I want the tall receiver. I want the lightning-fast guy. You can maybe touch the football,

and I want to find ways to maximize those skill sets. And I thought that's exactly what you want. You want guys that maybe aren't, you know, the top 50 picks in the draft, but a guy that's in that 75 range in terms of numerical draft order and say, this guy has a trait that we can maximize, and I know we can maximize it because he's a tough son of a gun, and he loves football.

And I just think that's a brilliant vision, and it's a great starting point. And again, execution is hard, but I think you've got a guy in Adam Peters who's done before and a guy and Dan Quinn who is an excellent football coach, like I mentioned, and understands how to maximize those players' unique abilities, much like Kyle Shanahan did with Devo Samuel. So they've described the kind of players they're looking for. You've described it even further.

So who on the current roster absolutely stands out as an Adam Peters, Dan Quinn guy? Yeah, I mean, I think that's going to be the million-dollar question because one of the things about Dan that I think is awesome is that he's able to impassioned people and help them love football in a way they didn't know they could. But guys that stick out from a play standpoint, I think especially the second half of this last year, Kwan Martin, Percy Buller, guys that play with a tremendous emotion and passion, which I love to watch. I think John and Duran, I think fit that vision in terms of guys that are tough guys and that are very physically gifted. I think Dan will do a good job, again, of putting them in the best positions to be successful. Offensively, I think Brian Robinson, you know, people talk about how to be fit in Cliff's offense.

I don't really care because I think he's a tough son of a gun who, again, when you talk to him about football, he just lights up in a way that is so unique. And so I think those types of guys are people that I think you want to build around. You want pieces around Sab Cosme, you know, even Andrew Wiley to a certain extent. Like you watch Andrew, like, and he is some physical limitations. but dude loves football. And so I think there are some pieces there on that offensive line. Terry McCloran, obviously, is a guy that, you know, it goes without saying.

He just is passionate. The way he plays speaks for it. So I think there are some pieces here that gets you excited if I'm Dan Quinn saying these dudes love football and they're tough. And we can always make that work. You know, we've got to maybe find the right role for them and the right usage pattern, but at least they've kind of checked the first two boxes and those are the most important. Yeah, the first two guys I thought of were Brian Robinson, Jr. and Kwan Martin.

and then I actually thought about Kaleek Hudson as well. I know he is tiny and undersized, but I don't know if anybody tries harder than he does on the team. I think that's a great point. And again, that's the thing that gets me excited is Dan understands. Like he's got a passion for talent evaluation. He's got a passion for coaching. And so he's going to say, this guy, Kaleek, is tough and he loves ball.

How do we maximize him? If he, you know, maybe our, you know, maybe he's our nickel guy or Buffalo nickel guy or maybe he's our special team ace, whatever that is. We're going to have a role for players like that here. And I think that's something that I find very encouraging. Yeah, I think the two young defensive ends too will have. Potentially, yeah. You know, in Henry and Jones Jr. So I do want to talk about Kingsbury, but real quickly, specific to scheme-wise defensively, the one thing that was interesting about Dallas this year, yeah, playmaking, tackling in

space, explosive, et cetera, and they had all those injuries, digs, et cetera. But they really weren't physical up front against the run this year. That was really their Achilles heel. I would imagine that's going to be an emphasis for Quinn here. What kind of defense do you see him playing schematically? Well, I think the thing that, again, get you fired up about a press conference is obviously there's a defensive skeleton there that he's run for a couple years, that Witt has run for a couple years in Dallas, but I think it's going to be the starting point. But the thing that I love to hear from a head coach, I love to hear from coaches in general is like, you know, what's this going to look like in three years, four years, five years, and how can we be ahead of the curve defensively? So I think Dallas does a lot of good stuff from a coverage disguise standpoint.

I think they understand how to tie pressure to coverage in a really nice way. I think they coach the heck. They coached the absolute heck out of that defensive backfield and they maximize those guys that gets to be excited. And again, to your point, like stop in the run. Like, there are elements of kind of being a little undersized, and that's a personnel choice, I think, a vision they decided to make. But if you look at the roster here, like, they're not going to be undersized or undermanned up front. They've got two of the best defensive players on the interior in the NFL.

So I think they can really rely and lean on those guys to do what they've done. They've got Big John Ridgway. They've got big fill. They've got different body types here. So I'm really curious to see, you know, obviously in Dallas, very specific. they kind of had all these undersized, hyper-athletic, pass-rush specialists. Now they've inherited something a little bit different. So how do you now maximize this group of playmakers?

And what shape does the defense take to kind of, again, improve and help kind of show the talents of this rush that you have as it exists? And obviously over the next couple years, that's going to change. But going into 2024, like, what does that look like? Is my big question? And that's something I'm excited to see. All right. Tell me about your reaction to Cliff Kingsbury being the offensive coordinator. You know what?

It kind of went in waves. Like, I'm sure I could do with everybody. At first I was kind of like, oh, you know, that's a big name, you know, kind of a college guy. Then I was like, Logan, like you're making all these judgments to watch some film. So I went back and watched, I want to say three or four games from 2021. And I was like, man, there is some really innovative and exciting stuff about this offense. I think he understands how to space the field in a nice way, how to create conflicts for defenders just based on formation.

I think he knows how to exploit matchups. I think he also understands how to manipulate space specifically in the passing game. And so I was like, man, like, you know, Dan, the way he described in the meeting, you know, like all the traits that Kyle has in his offense, you know, stressing defenses horizontally, putting guys in conflict, challenging rules. You see elements of that from Cliff. It just looks different in terms of presentation. I think the one thing that I'm still a little bit concerned about is like, obviously,

Cliff is a past game guy, and that shows up because his past game stuff is excellent. But how do you kind of handle your protections? How do you handle the run scheme? In 2021, I thought they did some really nice stuff innovating, but a lot of that was around the quarterback running the football. So, again, they ran some counters, some traps, some tight zone stuff, with a really explosive, innovative stuff was from Kyler Murray. So how do you do that here?

How do we kind of continue to push the envelope not only from a passing game standpoint, which, again, the air rate is always innovating from a past game standpoint. But now how do we apply that same level of hunger and detail orientation to the run game? So I think I come out of it thinking, wow, I think Cliff is a smart – after just watching four games, I haven't talked to him. I think Cliff's a smart guy. I think he's very innovative. I think he understands football at the NFL level. Check all those boxes.

I think he understands how to manipulate space and manipulate defenses and manipulate certain coverages. I love all that. I just want to know, like, can you apply that same level of detail to the run game? Or do you need to make sure you hire somebody? to kind of fill in that blind spot. Like is that the offensive coordinator, or the run game coordinator, like your offensive line coach? Do you need to bring in like a Bill Callahan, quote-unquote, just as an example,

to kind of offset some of that, to make sure you're productive in that other element of the game? I don't know. But I find myself today excited about the hire with a couple reservations that I think can still be resolved as long as the staff comes together in a nice way. I mean, you've done a nice job describing it, but I want you to simplify it because I I think everybody who watches football, who's listening to this, they understand the different offensive schemes that have worked in football

and the predominant one now, which we always refer to, obviously, is the Shanahan Tree scheme, which you see the quarterback under center more. We see, you know, a lot of zone inside, outside, a lot of marriage between that run game and bootleg quarterback keeper, play action, et cetera. This will look different, right? This is going to be a lot of shotgun with the quarterback, even. in the run game, and depending on who they draft, the quarterback potentially being a big part of the run game?

Yeah, 100%. It's definitely going to look probably more like the offense did last year than it would look like Kyle Shanahan. I think Cliff has the ability to do some of those things that you describe. But again, remember his background. It's this air raid background. Right. The basic kind of starting point is two-by-two drop-back passing.

And so like I said, Cliff has a really good understanding of that. I thought, like there's a couple of plays in the set. in the week 9 match from 2021, but I thought were great, right? They get to a 3-by-1. They got Christian Kirk as number 3. They run a jet motion with the back to kind of help with the protection.

They run the slide away from the jet action, and then they end up getting Christian Kirk running a deep cross on the backside post, on the backside safety, who's actually a hook player. It ends up being like a 70-yard bomb. Was that the Colt McCoy game or not? That is the Colt McCoy game.

Absolutely right. Because I watched some of that, too. were they different? Was he different with Colt than he was with Kyler? Yeah, he was different. I think, you know, the RPO stuff was still a part of it, but the execution's a little bit different, right? So you still get in those kind of unusual formations. There was one where they got a wide bunch, and, you know, they're reading the backside end, and they hand the ball off. But the thing about that that, that I want to just point out about that specific example, is they're able

to create positive numbers in the run game. And so if you're going to line up poorly to this this kind of unusual offensive formation, there are ways to exploit it, and I think that's the thing. It's like it might not be the most natural thing to my eye who comes from this much more kind of nuanced run game, but that works. That principle works.

It's just about consistently being able to execute that and consistently being able to innovate off of it. I think there's enough of those types of plays. Another great example is they're in this bubble screen. In a two-by-two, they shift, and they end up creating a four-by-one, but they've got Rondell more in the backfield. They swing them out to the left, and the San Francisco 49ers don't match it correctly

because they didn't get it communicated. So I think there's a good understanding of taking this air raid principle, putting a little window dressing on it, and continuing to evolve that system. So I'm excited about it. It's going to look different. And the other question I have is, you know, how are we going to consistently run the football if we're in gun all the time without a quarterback that can move a ton?

So those are the questions that need to be answered. And again, staff still, still needs to be filled out. A lot of personnel decisions still need to be made. So I'm reserving judgment on that. But I am more excited today than I was when I heard about the original hire. You know, it's funny, as you mentioned, Rondell Moore. I actually thought of Curtis Samuel. Now, he's, you know, they're going to have to re-sign him, and he's a bit older, but there are a lot of similarities between Moore and Samuel. Like Samuel would have, if they didn't have any other options in the draft, free agency, et cetera, he would play that

Rondell Moore role from the Arizona 21 offense anyway? Oh, yeah, I think 100%. I think the other thing, you know, like I said, I'm doing a lot of deep dive on the drafters. There's a lot of guys like that this year in the draft. Like, this is a very saturated receiver market from a draft standpoint. So you can find your Rondale Moore, quote, unquote, in this draft. Like a hyper-twitchy guy who can touch the football from the backfield.

So even if you don't resign Curtis Samuel, which would be great to have him back, who's a very productive player for the team this year, and a guy that, you know, I love watching play. But if that doesn't work out, I think there's opportunities to fill that type of role in the draft this year. You know, air raid for a lot of people has meant over the years, you know, five eligibles, no tight ends. But Ertz was productive in the Kingsbury offense. He was extremely productive.

And again, I just want to point that out. I think that's a great example of him finding matchups with a playmaker and then maximizing the playmaker. that's been a big criticism of the offensive coordinators over the last couple years here. It's like, how do you maximize Terry, how to maximize Jahan, how do you maximize Logan Thomas, all these different types, Curtis Samuel, name your guy, how do you maximize him? And I think with the Earth's example, as you see him, understanding what Earth does well and how to put him in good positions to be successful. So again, it's the innovation, the growth of that offense into the NFL system, the understanding

of playmakers, and how to exploit matchups. I think the thing that, yeah, so again, I'm really excited. I just wonder about the depth with which just goes, because again, when you're in kind of the same formations, same personnel's frequently, it becomes hard to be multiple and varied. But I think you see him be very successful early in the NFL season because he is doing some really exciting, innovative football stuff. One other comment on that particular team. I just think Kyler Murray was limited. I think the size really low. limited maybe what they could have been offensively, meaning I think in some ways he probably

got the most out of Kyler-Marie that he could get out of him. Yeah, I mean, I think one of the things about Kyler, when you watch them is you realize man, like Kyler is a dynamic playmaker. And again, like, this is the credit to Cliff, and I don't know if the credit deserves to go here, but I'm going to give it to them because he's the O-C, he's head coach, is they built an offense that maximize what Kyler does well, you know? And so is that limiting them or are they maximizing a quarterback? I couldn't speak to that. But I just wanted to put that out there is something that maybe consider when watching that film.

It's like, you know, maybe if they do get a guy like Drake May who's a little bit more traditional in terms of body type, I think the offense that Cliff is going to construct and the offense Cliff is going to emphasize will look different than the one they had with Kyler Murray. If they get Jayden Daniels, it'll look different than the one they had with Kyle Murray. You know, if they had Joe Milton, just as an example, they're not going to draft Joe Milton, but the offense would look different to kind of fit that skill set. And I think that's something, again, in addition to all these other things that I've mentioned, gets me excited because I think there's a flexibility and an understanding there that I think is very exciting. I mean, you coach, I would imagine that you think the best coaches are the ones that look at what they have

and then figure out how to make them work rather than saying, here's my system and forcing it to try to work. Yeah, no, I think it's 100% right. And you're describing him as that. All right, a couple more for Logan. So Adam Peters, you were in San Francisco briefly. Just give me an overarching theme of the Adam Peters hire since I haven't talked to you in a month or so. Yeah, I mean, I think Adam Peters is fantastic. Again, like all the same things I said about Dan, like just this tremendous human being that's very good and very smart at football, I think also apply to Adam.

Like he is the stories of his kindness and his understanding of the player's plight, while also being a tremendous talent evaluator are like they're very numerous you know and a lot of those conversations I've had are off the record but like my experience with him is he just was that guy like he'd come by you know and I'm again I'm like the third string blocking tight end in San Francisco like my role is not I'm not you know Pierre Garsohn or any of these big time for him but you were a UCLA guy you were a UCLA guy so maybe you had that connection yeah that is true but he'd come and say what's up and hey man has a family and all this stuff. And then, you know, when I bumped to them, you know, before he took the job here at the San Francisco game,

he said hi to me. He recognized me. Hey, Logan, what's going on, man? Great to see you. Like, oh, come, come back. Say it. And I just think there is a, that personality is so rare. And to get two of, like, literally the best people that I've met in the industry,

like Adam Peters and Dan Quinn together in the same building, like it's hard for me to imagine that this is going to be something tremendously special. And then also, I think I have to point this out, like, when you talk to people around the league, about Adam Peters. They say his ability to understand what they value in the schemes that they're running is incredibly high and his ability to find those pieces to fit that theme is incredibly high. So not only a great person, but just an incredibly gifted and talented evaluator of football players and understanding how they fit in the scheme, it just gets to be really excited. Because, again, it's not the Dan hire in isolation. It's not the Adam higher in isolation.

and it's both those guys together. I think it's going to make this pretty special. When they were here on New Year's Eve, I think it was. Did you pitch him on the opportunity here? I just said, hey, man, I kind of was joking. I was like, he's got two little girls. And I was like, you know, they've got really good youth soccer out here. I'm sure they'd love it.

You know, they play soccer and all. You know, and he was like, oh, I don't know about that. But, you know, look at him now. He's out here and looking for youth soccer league. All right. Let's get to quarterbacks, because I know you've watched a lot of tape. I want to hear what you think of Caleb Williams, Jaden Daniels, Drake May, etc. We'll do that with Logan Paulson right after these words from a few of our sponsors.

A little bit more with Logan Paulson. We'll find out what he thinks about the quarterbacks in the draft. But before we get to that, I want to tell you about Magnin Motors. Magdon Motors is a premier high-line exotic dealership new to the DMV. They specialize in clean, low-mise. unique spec vehicles, all of the big brands that people know like Porsche, Ferrari, Lamborghini, McLaren. Every car goes through a 110-point inspection and is backed by an extensive warranty. Financing and leasing available on all vehicles, and they've got an expert staff with an average of 20 years of experience.

To find out more about this new Premier Highline exotic vehicle dealership new to the DMV, go to magden motors.com. That's M-A-G-D-E-N-Moters.com. All right, we continue with Logan Paulson. So you've looked at a lot of these players that will be in the draft, the quarterbacks in particular. What does your board look like one through three with the presumed top three quarterbacks in the draft? So on my board it's Caleb Williams. As of right now, I reserve right to change that. at any moment, but he's pretty special, then Jayden Daniels, and then Drake May. So, and it's more of a, I think, probably more of a preference thing with, with Jayden Daniels, but I think

his 2020-23 campaign, obviously he won the Heisman, was dramatic. You know, his ability to run the football his accuracy, his deep ball accuracy, his ability to step up in big moments. Like, you're, you know, you're just watching game after game. I probably watched eight games of his. And I just was like, man, this guy is incredible.

Obviously, he had a couple hiccups, but, you know, in big moments, he's making big plays, and he's pulling his team back, like the Missouri game. He's pulling him out of this. Play and hurt. Playing hurt in that game. Yeah. And so it just was so impressive. And so, again, I'm sure if I, when I get to the 2022 stuff, I'll probably be saying the same thing about Drake May.

But as of right now, based on 2023, like Jane Daniels was just the more efficient, better football player. So he's my second guy. And Caleb Williams, I mean, I mean, people have been talking about him. you know, expousing his greatness for a while now. But he does stuff that, I mean, really probably only one other person on the face of the planet can do with the football. And as a coach, like, maybe this is also a downfall in my evaluation. I was like, I want that guy who can literally do anything he wants with the football. Again, he's off rhythm a lot, which gives me a lot of nervous energy about it.

But, gosh, his ability to just be a total master of the football and placement and different. arm angles, layering throws, deep throws is pretty spectacular. So at the beginning of this show today, I basically gave my top three as of today, subject to change, as you said as well. But Caleb would be, and just pure talent, not knowing anything about what due diligence on these guys, interviews and these guys will reveal. Caleb would be my number one, Daniels is two, and Drake May is three. But I said this.

I said, Daniels, for me, is much. closer to Caleb than Drake May is to Daniels. And I would agree with that. Okay. So what is it specifically about Drake May that concerns you? So for me, I guess it just was, again, it's the offense, that North Carolina offense is a tough eval because they don't do a lot of complicated stuff. He's under pressure a lot. But to me, it was the accuracy and just the inconsistency with the throws.

Like, obviously he's very talented. Like, he could make, you know, push the ball down the field. He had Devontes Walker there, the receiver that everyone was talking about from the Senior Bowl, who's this explosive kind of Mike Wallace clone getting down the field. And he had a couple great throws to him, some excellent throws in the red zone. But to me it was kind of the mundane stuff that got me a little bit concerned. Like he'd miss a 10-yard-in high. You'd miss a post short.

And you're kind of like, these are throws and plays that I'd like to, just be more consistent. And so from what I understand, that's how it was 2020 tape was more consistent. But when you look at Jane Daniels, like the consistency was there. Did he struggle in times? Absolutely.

Did he miss throws at times? Absolutely. Was he throwing to better football players? Absolutely. But I think the consistency of the ball placement, the accuracy, and the anticipation of a lot of his throws, I kind of said, wow, this is a little bit. This seems more transferable as of right now.

But again, I've got to watch more film. You know, I've had this conversation with various people who want to compare Daniels to RG3. I don't see that comparison at all from this standpoint. This guy's got phenomenal vision in the open field as a runner. RG3 to me was a straight line track guy that couldn't see anything in his peripheral. Do you agree with that? I do agree with that. I mean, I think the reason people say that is because he does take big hits.

like he does take unnecessary hits, but I always say, like, that's what college guys do. They don't take care of themselves very well. So hopefully that's something you can teach him, but I do think he's got a better feel for space, better feel for grass, and a better feel of, like, what to do with the scrambler. Like, he's not Lamar Jackson in terms of making people miss, but he does understand angles really well. I think he's just a better natural runner than Robert was. And I think the offense he's playing in is a little bit more complicated and a little bit more nuanced

to what Robert had to deal with. And he's been in multiple offenses. So, again, I kind of push back a little bit on the RG3 comparison as well. Again, I think there's more touch and more layering to his throws. So I think there's a lot of things there that are different. But as a runner, I definitely think he's a much more natural athlete than Robert was. So like you said, it was more of a track guy. I mean, if you can't tell, he's just, he was my favorite player in football period this year at any level watching.

And I kind of feel like he would be able to succeed. almost any offense. Like, I could see him in a Kyle Shanahan scheme, even though it's not necessarily what they did at LSU. He makes every throw. The one concern, and I've expressed this all year long, is he is skinny, you know, and he's 6'4, and he's towering, and he runs, I bet you he might run 4-3, but no worse than 4-4, and I think he can make every throw. I think he was as good a deep-ball thrower as Pennix was this year in college. But he, he, he's skinny. Like he's going to have to put on,

like Lamar's thick. He's thin. Yeah. No, I think that's exactly right, especially after seeing, you know, Bryce Young and obviously very different types of people, but that slight build gives you some concern because it's not prototypical.

And again, there's other things to his game that I think, you know, make you a little bit concerned. Like sometimes they'll turn stuff down, down the field in favor of running the football. He did have the lowest interception rate of any player in college. any of these players were discussing.

He's very fastidious with the football, protected very diligently, but at the NFL level, like, how does that transfer, right? So in addition to the frame, there are holes in his game. He's not the perfect prospect, but his film from this year is pretty dramatic, and it's hard to overstate how well he played this year, and that's one of the reasons why it's such a high evaluation on him.

Yeah. So back to Caleb, would you trade whatever it took to get up to number one to take him? Whatever it took, you know, I think he's a tremendous prospect, but I also understand, like, for the commanders, there's a lot of needs that need to be filled. So I'm always reluctant to trade up. And in some instances, I'm probably more likely to trade back, you know, because I think

there are a lot of good football players in this draft specifically between one and a hundred, you know, that can help you out right now. And so if I'm losing out an opportunity in a rebuild situation, or not rebuild, retooling situation. You know, I'm going to, I'm going to be very fastidious with my pick. So unless, unless, as I go through the evaluation process, I'm just like, man, there's no way I can live without this guy. I'm probably not trading up. And now he is very, very talented. He's the most talented guy of the bunch. But I also know that young quarterbacks need a scaffolding and a support system around them. And I want to make sure that with this, with this other draft

capital, we can accommodate that scaffolding and get him in a good position, whoever it is, to play the best football for the Washington commanders. Does Fields interest you at all? If I'm the ownership, if I'm the GM here, I definitely kick the tires on it just to see what they're asking for, what the opportunity looks like. I do think there are some limitations to field. I think last year was his best year, but it still was not a great year. I think you still see some of the issues in terms of him turning down stuff. But maybe if you're Cliff Kingsbury, you say, man, I love the way he runs the football.

I can simplify his reads. I can put him in better spots to be successful from a past game standpoint. I could be more selective about when he's pushing the football down the field. And we can take advantage of this tremendous skill set. And we can get it for a second round pick. I don't know. But I am reluctant because I do see a lot of issues with his game. I think people think, oh, he's improved.

And he has improved. His credit, he's got much better. But I think early on in this process, I was like, man, he was flat bad his first two years. and now he's kind of passable as a starting quarterback, I don't know how much I want to give up for a guy that is passable. You know, while being tremendously talented and having a very high upside still, it just makes me nervous in terms of what you see there. But if Cliff says, man, I love him.

Let's go make a move for him. I wouldn't put that past anybody because I think this system is very, very, very, would be very, very friendly to his skill set. I love having you on, Logan. Really appreciate it. You're always great. We'll talk soon. Thanks, Kevin.

Appreciate it, buddy. Logan Paulson, everybody. That's it for the show today. Back tomorrow with Tommy. Daniels now starts to run. Runs right past one, splits two more, gets the sideline special. And he dances his way to a gain of 38.