The Kevin Sheehan Show - Wishing For A Colossal Collapse

Episode Date: November 19, 2019

Kevin and Thom opened with the brawl and spit in the Caps-Ducks game last night. Then it was a conversation about how many Redskin fans are rooting for an epic failure this year. The boys talked Haskins, Kapernick, and Philip Rivers as well. <p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices">podcastchoices.com/adchoices</a></p> Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You want it. You need it. It's what everyone's talking about. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Now here's Kevin. You're listening to The Sports Fix. Tommy's here. Aaron's here.

I am here. Tommy went to the Caps game last night. Look at you out and about last night. Were you working or was it just the fun? No, I was working. I was my first time getting a look at the Caps. Yeah. It was a game that fit my personal schedule.

And it turned out to be pretty lucky because for a November game on a Monday night against a Western Conference opponent, it was pretty wild. It was pretty wild. There was a melee at the end of the second period last night. Most of you may know this at this point. It's actually been a national story today. And the Caps actually had one of their players,

one of their new tough guys, by the way. This was something that Joe Beninotti told me a few weeks ago when we started to talk about the Caps start. And he said that this guy, Garnett, Hathaway is one of the one or two new tough guys they've added to the roster to go with Tom Wilson, and he got ejected for spitting on Eric Goodbranson, an Anaheim defenseman last night. He's probably going to get suspended for that. I would imagine that he gets at least a game or two, right?

I had your guy on Adam Zalanka on the radio show this morning. He does a good job, by the way. Yeah, he does. I just wish that both of you could somehow. impress upon your superiors at the Washington Times that the website is not easy. It really is very difficult to read your stories. Well, you know, it's not easy for me either. I don't have any kind of magic formula.

I think you should, I mean, if things are popping up constantly, if you just scroll down a tiny bit, things are popping up all over and then you just get completely, look. I know that. I know the same, look, you know what's popping up? Money. That's what's popping up. All right, so you were there last night. What did you make of all of it?

I mean, you know, the caps are a tough team. They're a physical team. They're dominating teams, Tommy. This is an incredible start they're off to. I have no idea what it means to the postseason. But you were there last night. Tell me about it. Well, you could tell in the post-game press conference that Todd Reardon kind of liked what he saw.

I mean, basically, he was smile when he said, we can beat you any way you want to play. If you want to go physical now, We can beat you that way, too. There's all kinds of ways we can play this game and beat you. You know, this in a way, I mean, without the physical part, was sort of like the Caps team I expected last year. And I shouldn't have done that given the Stanley Cup hangover,

and little did I know maybe their best offensive player had an addiction problem. You know, we didn't know that. This time last year you said this is a better team than the championship team. Well, I heard Craig Loughlin say on the broadcast last night, even though I was at the game, I caught this. He said he thinks this is the best caps team he's ever seen talent-wise on the roster from top to bottom. And they certainly are playing that way. You know, but I mean, the chippy play started, you know, when, I mean, it started pretty much the whole game.

The caps were forechecking a lot. You know, there were a lot of hard hits. And then No beef between these teams either No, there's no history Right No history What was great though

I mean Brendan Leipzig Who is this you know Leipzig I think it's pronounced Leipzig Yeah This like little Like squat guy Comes flying off a tough guy too

He was not happy With some of the hits That he was getting behind the Anaheim net So at one point Like a couple of seconds later He's in front of the net And then all of a sudden, he launches himself into the air and just, like, just slams Derek Grant for the ducks to the ground.

And that's really when everything started escalating. And these are the fourth lines, too, for these teams. You know, this is where the chipping has started. Yes. And then, you know, you started all, everybody's trying to get in a punch. And somebody, you know, punched Hathaway. He called it a sucker punch. and then I love Hathaway's explanation of it.

Look, I give him credit for, you know, standing up and talking to reporters last night after the game. But this is the second Magic Lugie in history. Okay? He says, I reacted. The bottom line is, here's the second part of his comments. I reacted a little emotionally. And unfortunately, spit came out of my mouth after I got sucker punched

and it went on to him. It went on to him. So in other words, this magical lugi, you know, not as magical as the one inside felt. I smell a column coming. Not as magical as the one that hit Kramer.

And, and, what's his name? But basically, he said, you know, somebody hit me, the spit came out of my mouth,

and somehow it wound up on him. So it was a wild night. But these cats, They're good. They are really good. Not only are they really good. So I'm going to hit you with some things that I'm sure you know already because you are big into hockey. Yes.

You know, John Carlson starts to this season. He had two more assists last night. He is now third in the league in points. He's having a career year, but he's having more than that. He's putting together right now one of in recent years the best offensive seasons for defensemen. in several years. Now, Brent Burns, a couple of years ago, a San Jose's defenseman, ended up ninth in the league in points. Carlson's third right now. He is, I mean, I think we've known how great he is, and they did the right thing, you know, by paying him. Yes, they did. And,

you know, great guy, the whole thing, great teammate. He is putting together a career year, and we are just seeing maybe the beginning of John Carlson's prime. Yeah. It's very possible that we're seeing the very beginning of his prime, and they are a team. Now, they've played more games than anybody else. I know you know this. A lot of people listening, see the point total. They're 36.7 better than the next best team in the league. Boston's got 29. The defending champion, blues have 29. Edmonton's got 29. The caps have also played more games than anybody in the NHL. They've played three more games than any of the other leading teams in the East. In fact, they've played five more games at this point than the Islanders.

Which I was looking at that. I'm like, how can you at this point have played five more games than someone else in your league? Like what kind of scheduling quirk is that? But anyway, they are, they're killing it. I have no idea what this means to the postseason. We know from years past that the hockey regular season doesn't mean squat other than qualifying you to participate in the postseason. We rarely see like all of the top seeds hold up.

Last year, Tampa went down in the first round as a one seed. The Caps went down as a one seed. Nashville went down as a one seed. And I think Calgary went down as a one seed. It was like the top four seeds all went down in the first round. I might be wrong about Calgary. But I know I'm right about Tampa and Washington. I don't know what it means to the postseason,

but they are putting together a regular season, maybe one of those President's trophy regular seasons. You know, I think you're right. Since Stanley Cup playoffs are so random, it's tough to predict what will happen. But I would like this Caps team going into the postseason, especially if you got a healthy and clean Eugene Kuznetsoff. I mean, we remember coming off the Stanley Cup finals last year. Yeah, you're Jenny, whatever.

Jenny, maybe? Yeah. Well, Eugene, maybe his friends call him Eugene. Gene. I think his friends called him something else at some point. Yeah, well, no doubt. about that. They may have called him for something else.

I don't know about that. But, I mean, my point is, we expected him to take a big step last year coming off his Stanley Cup playoff performance. And a lot of people thought he was ready to emerge as the best player on the team. But he never did that last year. And then disappeared in the postseason. In the postseason in their opening round loss to Carolina. And, you know, now he's playing.

well. You mentioned Carlson is having a career year. Ovechkin is still I mean, it's still a dangerous score, one of the best scorers in the league. And Holby, hope he almost had to shut out until

near the end of the third period last night when Anaheim was able to manage two goals. But Holpe is playing great as well. The formula's all there for a deep run into the Stanley Cup playoffs for this team

if they can all stay healthy. Yeah, you hope these saved percentage is not very good. Well, he started out, he started out Rocky, but he's really played well of late. Yeah, as of late. He's gotten it together. All right, that's our cap segment

for the podcast. Tommy was there, and it was an entertaining brawl. I'm sure some were offended by it, and some probably referred to it as the worst thing they've ever seen on a ice rink. I don't like it. I do.

I mean, when you think about, look, how many times have you read or have you ever seen one guy get permanently damaged with one punch? It happens. Yeah, I know it does. It happens all over the world every day. Yes, it does. You know, and they're just lucky in the NHL that it doesn't happen more. You're right. It doesn't happen more often.

You're right. So, no, I'm not a big fan of it, but it was a pretty wild night. All right. By the way, here's what I am a big fan of. Recycling. that newspaper that's in your garbage can. You're going to leave it there or are you going to recycle it? No, I take it from the garbage can.

They've got a recycling area, trash area out here, and I take the newspaper out and I put it in a recycling thing. Okay. And I take the other trash and put it in the... I mean, I understand why I would assume since you put it in a trash can. Well, yes. I mean, I could have just left it on my desk and carried it out there, but I like to keep the desk relatively neat and clean, as you can tell.

Yeah. As you can tell. And, you know, what it takes me time is after you come in, on Tuesdays and Thursdays after you leave, typically I've got to bring a vacuum cleaner in and wipe down the table in which you sat in front of and whatever's underneath your chair

because usually there's a lot of crumbs everywhere. That was on call for. But it's true. That was on call for. Not today because you don't have any food with you. But yes, there have been days where you've left Aaron also where I've had to go out, get the vacuum cleaner from right

down the hall, and come in here, and it's the two of you that have crumbs lying on the floor all around your chair. Me? Not so much. Do you vacuum at home? Yeah, when I need to. Do you really? Yeah.

You're a vacuum cleaner guy? I am definitely a neat freak. So you are Felix Unger. I'm not Felix Unger. I'm not. I mean, I can live in a sloppy situation and have before, but I am more of like a minimalist, I would say. Oh, you definitely are.

I don't like a lot of clutter. I don't save a lot of things. I like things to be neat and clean. Yes, I would say that that's me, but not to the point where I have OCD over it. Okay. So when we start our club, are you going to be vacuuming all the time?

There will be a vacuum in the one-bedroom efficiency. Will there be rules? Will there be rules about crumbs? No, no rules. Okay. No rules. But I'm not going to, you know, if we have this big pad that we're going to invite all of our friends to

and watch games and get drunk, and, you know, order pizza with a bunch of large screens, you know, couches and refrigerators in there, I am probably going to have a vacuum cleaner because when everybody leaves, I'm not going to want, you know, bugs to be on the floor the next time we come in. Okay. You know, and you won't even notice, you'll say,

wow, this place is pretty neat. Did you have somebody, and I'll say, yeah, I just had somebody come in and clean. I won't even admit that it was me. I don't need all the credit. You'll take a cleaning fee out of your share. I want to get to the Redskins here. in a moment. You know, we can talk about the game Sunday because you haven't had a chance to talk about

the game. But I also have a question for you. But I did want to just real quickly mention the Monday night football game last night because I have been for a long period of time. I've been a Philip Rivers fan, and I still am. And I don't think there's any doubt that Philip Rivers is going to be a Hall of Fame quarterback. People have tried to debate me on that. Debate me all you want. Philip Rivers, to me, you know, I don't even need the numbers which are there to tell me, you know, watching him over the years that he's played at a Hall of Fame level, even though his teams haven't, you know, performed in the postseason and don't get to the postseason a lot. Galby gave this stat out, though, earlier this morning on the morning Blitz of 980 that really blew me away. And it's because it's, it feels, it felt so right, too, when I heard it, that Philip Rivers has lost. 61 games in which he's been the starting quarterback by seven or less points. It's the most by

far of any starting quarterback during the Super Bowl era. And it really, and I went back to find out how many games his teams have lost period during his starting era. He's, he's sat for the first two years when Drew Brees was in San Diego. He has started now for 14 years. His teams are 122 up, 97 down and 61 of the 97, basically two-thirds of his losses have been by seven points or less. And it really does ring true. And I don't have the number on the following thing that I'm going to say and add to that. But it would seem to me that half of those losses by seven points or less are, in part, they were close because of him. And then at the very end, when they had a chance to win it, he did what he did last night.

you know, through a back-breaking pick. You know, I guarantee you you can find three games in Philip Rivers' career. We're in overtime, he threw an interception that led to a loss. In fact, I know that you can find three. I haven't gone to look at it, but I remember a few years ago, I think it was Kiko Alonzo when he was playing in Miami, maybe. There's a game in overtime. It could have been late fourth quarter, and he throws a pick six at the end

in like, you know, a tie game or they're up three. but he the reason he has sort of had these incredible highs and incredible lows is he's a risk taker you know that's the way he's Phil Mickelson if you're a golf fan as a quarterback he throws it into every tight window he gives his receivers 50-50 balls all the time and he does make some knucklehead throws as well and last night in their loss to Kansas City in Mexico City he threw four interceptions. And he threw an interception at the end that was a backbreaker for Aaron and I, and others that had the Chargers plus four and a half because they had a chance at the end. Did you play the Chargers? You did, right?

I did not. Oh, you didn't. The Mexico City, I avoid everything about that. Well, the field, by the way, they talked about how it was in such great shape. The very first play of the game, Rivers has Hunter Henry wide open. He's a good tight end, too. He catches it. He's got nothing but green in front of him. And he falls. down. Like the turf comes up underneath. He goes down hard. It's a 15-yard gain instead of like a 45-yard gain. And he's got a slab of turf on the top of his helmet. And you're like, oh, this is going to be a disaster. First field goal ever missed in a Mexico City game last night by this guy Badgley, who has already, I think, trademarked the Money Badger. Really? As a kicker.

Oh, my God. But back to Rivers for a moment. It was a terrible picky through at the end. They're going in with a chance to tie. They may have gone for two. They did it last year at Arrowhead, if you recall, in that late season game that was so important to them getting into the postseason. And it's second down, and the ball's at the 14-yard line. Kansas City's 14, 24 to 17, 18 seconds left. And he throws a horrible pass to Austin Echler, who's such a good player. And this guy Sorensen's just sitting there waiting for it. grabs it, touchback, knee, game over. And so Rivers has always been a risk taker, which is why his interceptions. He's thrown, by the way, 389 touchdowns during the course of his career, nearly 58,000 yards.

And he's had 192 interceptions. He's sixth in all-time touchdowns. Tommy, he's a Hall of Fame. There's no chance that Philip Rivers doesn't end up in the Hall of Fame in my view. But he's thrown 192 interceptions. You know, he's had years where he's thrown 18, 19, 21 interceptions. And this year he's already thrown 14 through 11 games. You know, there's a good chance he's going to throw 20 this year.

But one of the things I did notice about him last night, and I've noticed this about Brady this year. Aaron, maybe you and I had this conversation on the podcast yesterday. Philip Rivers has lost some arm strength. He's lost some of that zip that he used to have. He's always had an odd throwing motion, but, you know, it's short, compact. It's different because it comes from a very low angle. But he's always gotten it there, regardless of what it looks like.

He's lost some arm strength. There were incompletions he threw last night to people who were wide open that he underthrew. I think Brady has some of that this year. But magically, when you get to December and January, Brady always all of a sudden gets more arm strength. Yes. You know, right in time for the Super Bowl run. I really like Philip Rivers. I've always liked him. But the numbers are the numbers. 61 losses for his team by seven or less. And I don't know exactly how many he's been

responsible for, but my gut is a lot of them with backbreaking late game mistakes. Anyway, that was an interesting game. By the way, Kansas City, Aaron, something's missing there. They're not good defensively, which they weren't last year. Maybe it's going to take a couple of games from Mahomes to get back into a routine. God, he's so good off-schedule. You know, him, Russell, Wilson, Aaron Rogers, and Lamar Jackson, that's the list right now. They are so head and shoulders above anybody else as off-scheduled quarterbacks. And if you have one of those, it's such a difference maker.

Your big play potential is exponentially higher than on a team where you, don't have a quarterback that's able to, you know, extend the play and give receivers much more time to get open. But something looks wrong with the Chiefs. Yeah, something looks wrong. And just like we were talking about the Rams and I brought up that, you know, Gurley's not Gurley anymore. And we might have kind of underestimated just how important he was. We might be saying the same thing about Kareem Hunt. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I like Damien Williams. They lost Hill. They lost Hill early in the game. They didn't lose hill, but even with Hill, they've looked a little bit, you know, since the first few weeks of the season, they've looked a little bit off. And I think part of it is

that they don't have that explosive guy in the running game. Tommy, here's one for you, looking, you know, at all of the NFL schedule as we, you know, veer away from the Redskins on Sundays because they're playing meaningless games. But you'll love this one, because the NFL put this out yesterday, that the game on December 1st at Arrowhead between the Chiefs and the Raiders, which will be a first-down, a first-place showdown, has been moved into that 425 CBS double-header spot. This was, when I first started loving the NFL and watching football, Redskins, Cowboys, Chiefs Raiders.

Oh, yeah. Those were the two biggest rivalries in football. Yeah, at the beginning of the 70s, let's remember, the Chiefs won a Super Bowl to start the decade. And they had a defense that included Buck Buchanan, Curley Culp, Bobby Bell, who may have been the greatest athlete in the history of the NFL, Johnny Robinson, who just got in the Hall of Fame, and the Raiders, early in the decade before Madden came along, had guys like Ben Davidson and guys like that.

And then you had, you know, you had Ted Hendricks later on, John Matusat. Did you mention, like, you know, Emmett Thomas, who was in this organization for everyone, you were talking about the Chiefs? I didn't. You're right. Willie Lanier, did you mention Lanier? No, I didn't. I mean, they had their defense just Hall of Famers all over.

Yeah, I know. But those were, like, it's been a long time, a long time since Chiefs Raiders has meant anything. That is one of those dormant NFL rivalries that have never had, like, just a couple of brief moments since its heyday. The Redskins and Cowboys, you know, is not the same as it was, but there have been a couple of moments here and there. You know, in 2012, we had a season-ending game for the division. I can't remember the last time the Chiefs and Raiders were both good at the same time. Neither did I. And played in a meaningful late-season game.

But you're going to have that in two weeks. The Chiefs have a buy. The Raiders, so they're 7 and 4. The Raiders are 6 and 4, and the Raiders, I think, have an easy game this week at the Jets to get to 7 and 4. So it's a true first place showdown at Arrowhead. You mean against the Jets, the mighty Jets, you score 34 points against the Redskins? Yeah, maybe it may. I don't know.

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Were you there Sunday? Yes, I was. So... Were you there Sunday? I was not. Oh, okay. You're not going to get me to go to those games. You get much better games on television.

I watched. watched a lot of red zone, you know, during breaks in the fourth quarter. I did, and I don't know that I said this yesterday. In the beginning of the fourth quarter, when it got to 34 to 3, I hit the record button in case I missed anything, and I was watching the Red Zone from that point forward, in part because Kirk Cousins was engineering an epic comeback. A comeback for the ages.

But there were other, you know, interesting games going on. Have we hit another one of these? You know, I think the first rock bottom. that we did together. You know, we've done a lot of these rock bottoms together. Yes. I think the first one we did together was probably that Jim Zorn 2009 season, the Kansas City game in October, where basically the stadium emptied for the second half. It was only half full to begin with, and there was a malaise. And that's when we both started talking about how apathy and indifference is much more dangerous to Dan Snyder than anger, like a true emotion. But we've done several of

these together. We did the Shanahan end of 2013 together. We've shared these rock bottoms together. They've all been unique in their own way, but here's the thing about rock bottom moments. When you say or you describe it as a rock bottom moment, you believe that this is the worst it's ever been. Or you wouldn't describe it that way. Yes. Is it the worst

it's ever been? It's really hard to say. I mean, it's the worst it's ever been. I mean, under George Preston Marshall, like Neil and Rockville pointed this out, and he's right. The redskins wouldn't have a black player on their team and they went one and 12

one year. So, so I mean, that's pretty bad. Yeah. Okay. But in the Dan Snyder era, there are plenty of rock bottoms over the last 20 years. And each one feels like a rock bottom, but, and I don't have a problem

criticizing, you know, naming it as such. But here's the problem. It's the cumulative effect. That's why, like, like when you say this is rock bottom, you know, 30,000 people in the stands and at least one third of them, Jets fans. I heard half. I thought it was more like. So we're talking about 15 to 20,000 max of Redskins fans.

20,000, I'd say. Redskins fans. I mean, in November. Yeah. In the middle of November. Yeah. So, I mean, you still got seven games or six games left to play. Three more home games.

Yeah. So that would seem like Rock Bottom. But, you know, having Jim Zorn have to employ a bingo caller as an offensive coordinator. Pretty bad. That's Rock Bottom. Yeah. You know, having Steve Spurrier resign while he's playing golf, that's pretty much Rock Bottom. You know, almost having Pepper Johnson as your interim head coach.

Oh, God. That was close to being Rock Bottom. Rigo's college coach. Yeah. So it's the cumulative effect. And it's when I talk about the fatigue, the fatigue that has done the damage. It's like you can say, oh, this isn't the worst, or you can, or, you know, I mean, this other one was the worst. It doesn't matter.

I mean, when you have to deal with the burden of decades of futility and embarrassment, paper cuts seem like deep wounds. I mean, everything seems magnified because everything has been so bad. Yeah. So the worst, bad seems like the worst because you've lived with bad for so long. Yeah, I mean, you know, it really, to your point, your first point, I don't even know if it really matters the way you describe it anymore because it's just rock bottom all the time with this organization. You know, Sunday was one of those moments because you lost. and lost so badly to another horrible team and horrible franchise.

The Jets seemed like they were trying to do everything they could to lose the game. Yeah, and that, you know, it led to, and I mentioned this, you know, first of all, there's another one to come. I mean, that's almost a lot. Like there's another one of these moments this year, next year, two years from now, more likely than not that's coming because of who owns the team and who's running the team. But I guess the one thing that is becoming clear is that this season, from a record standpoint, is going to be the worst ever. They've never been one in 15 before.

They've never been 2 and 14 before. They've been 3 and 13 twice. Yes. 3 and 13 would be a miracle for them to win two more games. This is a horrible football team and horribly coached football team, which is so ironic because this guy Callahan is just insufferable with the shots that he takes in Jay Gruden. And these Warren Peace-length press conferences. I like Bill Callahan. Yeah, I know you do.

I like him. And I like his press conferences. It doesn't surprise me. He's a very nice man. He's a nice man. And in case you didn't hear him, he's very positive. He's very positive. You know, that's good to be very positive.

So I like Bill Callahan. Yeah, it doesn't surprise me that Bill Callahan's your type. He's insufferable to listen to. These press conferences, I think yesterday's, by the way, was the shortest he's had, It was 12 minutes. And my sense of it... There must have been one question. It was like three questions, four or five.

My sense of it is that everybody looked at each other and said, please, no more. No more questions. We got to get out of here. What can you ask? Exactly. At this point, this is like on Sunday, I wrote a column that had very little to do with the actual game. And had to do... Why would you write out the game?

I mean, you're at the point now. What are you going to write about, you know, the bright spot, Darius Geis or... Haskin. I mean, really. I mean, I wrote about the thing we just talked about, the bigger picture, I mean, where this franchise is, you know, at the box office and the minds of fans at this point, I mean, writing about the game seemed like such a waste of time because the game itself seemed like such a waste of time. That said, there were things to talk about during that game that are very interesting.

Well, let's save that for a moment, because let me just finish a couple of thoughts here. I do want to ask you about Monta Nicholson playing as well. I thought the coach's answer to that, the interim coach's answer to that yesterday was interesting. But the point I guess I was getting to is that, and I did a call segment this morning on this, is that, and I wouldn't say Sunday was like the point in which this sort of revealed itself. I think it's been coming for a year, year and a half, maybe even two years. but Sunday was just ugly. I mean, it was the ugliest loss of the year,

and there have been plenty to choose from, but you got run out of the building by a terrible football team, and you thought that this guy that you made the interim coach was going to lead you to a 9-and-7 season, and he's worse than the guy that preceded him, much worse than the guy that preceded him. And the guy that preceded him was pretty bad, too. But the question I asked today on the phone lines

was one that I sort of brought up, yesterday on the show, and I wanted to see what you thought based on the people that you talked to in your social media interaction. But I made the point, Tommy, that this is, the, no one's, there are few fans that are rooting for them to win, you know, that actually have a genuine interest in them trying to win the game. And then you have other fans that are like, just keep losing to get better draft positioning. But now, and it's not Sunday, but over the last two years you have something else. You have a significant, in my opinion,

I can't quantify this, but it's just a guess based on a lot of anecdotal, a lot of conversations. You have a significant percentage of fans that want them to lose epically because they dislike these people so much. They hate them. You know, it's one thing to chase away a fan base in 20 years, which is what Snyder's done.

He's ruined it for everybody. You know, this sacred trust, thing that so many of us were so emotionally attached to, you know, and it became part of our, you know, September through January routine. And it was a pleasure and it was a diversion and it was a pleasant thing in all of our lives. And he's ruined it. He's completely ruined it. Yes, he has. And so because of this, you now have people that are rooting for them to lose and lose big because they want him and Bruce and anybody else that's participated in this to feel the pain that they do. They can't stand this group of people so much. They hate, they've turned,

they've chased people away and they've made these people hate the team. This is unique. I don't know if it's totally unique. There may be other organizations. Maybe Nick fans feel that way about the Knicks. Maybe Oriole fans. You know, with Angeloos and what he's done to them over the years. Maybe there's a significant percentage of people that feel that way. But this is different than most losers. There's nothing lovable about them. They are incompetent. They're arrogant. And most people think they are just bad people. And so you have now the conversation, I hope he moves the team and we get an expansion team. Or I would give up the name for a new owner. You know, that's all seeped into the conversation.

And that's, again, Sunday didn't all of a sudden reveal that as part of the reaction. I have felt that way and have had a lot of people, you know, share that with me over the last year, year and a half. It's no longer a, you know, he's got to sell the team or Bruce Allen's got to go or maybe they hire the right coach. It's they want them to lose, not for draft positioning, so that these people can be clowns. at a level that they've never been clowned at. They're rooting for 1 in 15. Somebody called in this morning. It was a woman, and she said,

if they have a high draft choice, I'm just going to feel sorry for the person that they draft that high. That's an intelligent position. It's a sentencing. Yes. The best thing, one of my all-time favorite Tom Levero lines, is when they cut DJ Swaranger, you said if they really wanted to punish DJ,

they would have made him stay, which is, It's so true. Because look at this team. Look at the players. These people don't want to be here. Their best player of the last 10 years essentially paid them not to play for them. Yes.

I mean, it's remarkable. Yeah. And you know what? I think part of it, not all of it. But part of it is a resentment that Redskins fans don't feel like they're being heard. And they're being insulted. Yes. Their intelligence continues to be insulted by people they deem to be dumb.

Every time Bruce Allen opens his mouth. It's another insult to a fan base. They need somebody to stand up there in that microphone and say, we have stunk. We have stunk for a long time. We're just as tired of it as you are, and we're going to do everything we can to do that. That's what I've said.

To do that. And they can't do that. They can't. And that's what Angers fans, as much as anything at this point, is, I mean, they can't, they can't be heard. I mean, they're like, they're like, you know, out there screaming in an empty room saying, why doesn't, why aren't you listening to us? I mean, we're renting banners to fly over, over stadiums. Why aren't you paying attention?

Did you see the t-shirt that they printed for the game? No. That they had being sold in the whatever, you know, outlets in the stadium. No. A t-shirt that said the Redskins versus the Jets with the date of the game on it. Like it was some significant game. Oh my God. I mean, this goes hand in hand with a London Flector.

Yes. You know, and all of the little things that they always, it's really amazing. as big of a business as it is, how completely detached from their customer base they are. And you and I both know this, and I mentioned this this morning, that there is, and I've had conversations with them over the years. They don't listen to me anymore.

There's not really a relationship there anymore. But I've told some of the people in that organization over the years, you cannot be fooled by this Harvest Fest group. They are a tiny fraction of your fan base. They are not representative of the way people feel about you. They don't like you. They're stopping. They're not paying.

They're not coming. They're not even watching on television that much anymore. I'm not saying that a winning team won't turn it around quickly, but you get fooled by these, you know, Virginia beach outings and these, you know, road rallies before road games. This is not representative of the majority, the significant majority of your fan base. They've been fooled by that over the years. But anyway, um, It seems like somebody said to me the other day, this is on repeat, Kevin.

This is like, you know, whenever you have these moments, it's just, we keep doing the same thing. We keep having the same rant. Nothing's going to change this. No. This is why I always, I refer to the Surgeon General's warning. And I had this argument with somebody the other day when I said, I said, this is not an NFL franchise. And they said, what do you mean? They're in the league.

I said they're in the NFL, but they're not an NFL franchise. It's like Frank Robinson said about Gary Carter, the late Gary Carter, God rest his soul, when he was elected to the Hall of Fame and somebody asked him, what did he think about Gary Carter being a Hall of Famer? And Frank said Gary Carter's in the Hall of Fame. I'm a Hall of Fame. The Redskins are in the NFL. They're not an NFL franchise.

What do you, do you feel the same way that I do? do, that there is a growing percentage and maybe a real significant percentage of people that aren't just, forget, few are actually really caring about whether or not they win or lose these games. Yeah, I think that's, that's the majority. Others are, you know, keep losing so we get the number one pick and have a chance to pick Joe Burrow, who by the way now is the consensus number one pick. It's not even close. Every single mock draft I've looked at, Aaron, in the last two days, three days, Joe Burroughs the number one pick. A lot of that. has to do with the two injury. And apparently he's going to be fine. It's not a Bo Jackson type of injury.

But Tommy, I talk to these people all the time. A lot of them are my friends who were diehards. They can't stand these people. Can't stand these people. And they want them to fail epically. They want one in 15. And if that doesn't change and Dan Snyder doesn't have the epiphany that I talked about in the past and then make an admission and an apology for the last 20 years, you know, that that they want him to continue to fail until somehow the NFL says you are deemed to be not competent enough to run an NFL franchise. You're going to have to sell the team, which isn't going to happen unless there's an event that you have, you know.

Right, a scandal of some sort of scandal that you've sort of wished for. Well, I haven't wished for. I know. I've just said that's what's going to make change. And I've got to tell you, to be honest with you, I'm surprised somebody hasn't come forward with some kind of scandal. I'm not surprised by that. Really?

Yep, I'm not. I mean, maybe you've heard different things. I know professionally I've heard some bad stories, but nothing personally that would be scandalous. Well, not in the way that the Carolina owner was ousted. I don't think that there's in... Somebody asked me, referred to Rigo when he referred to Dan as having a dark heart. When you hear somebody describe somebody as having a dark heart,

what do you think of? what does that mean to you i think of a guy who who's who's evil yeah yeah i don't know that he's that personally no one's who knows him and few know him have ever described him in that way and i know that you know you can say well maybe the charitable side of him and his wife and all that stuff is done because they're self-absorbed i don't and i don't know that to be the truth i've never heard anybody that knows him and we don't know him um say that he's evil personally He may be evil professionally, and we know some stories like the vanilla ice cream on Mike Nolan's desk. That's a pretty bad thing to do as a boss.

He may be a terrible boss, and clearly he's incompetent when it comes to running a football operation. Kevin, people could not look him in the eye. Low-level people who work for him were not allowed to look him in the eye. I mean, that's really all you need. Is that dark-hearted? Is that evil? That's evil. Or is that just arrogance at the highest level?

That's evil. Okay. I mean, that basically says you aren't good enough. There are people who work for me who aren't even good enough to look at me. Yeah. I don't know if I'd describe it as evil, but I would describe it as pretty bad. Yeah. Yeah.

No doubt. So I wanted to real quickly talk about Montae Nicholson who played on Sunday. Why? Because this is another. Maybe you didn't pick up on this. Oh, I know. I know how, you know, how, you know, he was involved with the woman. You know, they took a woman who had a drug overdose to the hospital emergency room and left.

And then she died. And there's an investigation going on into it. I'm familiar with all that. So would you, if it had been your franchise, would he have played Sunday? Well, it depends on what I knew. Right. What I know now still. if I was running a franchise

and I'd be running it better than these bozos. Maybe. You know, if I was running a franchise, I probably would let a player play. Would the Patriots? You would or would? I would. At 1 in 8.

Yeah, with the Patriots? Yeah. Would the Patriots? I don't know. You're talking about a different organization in a different situation. If you were the Patriots and you were, you know, you had 35 Lombardi trophies

and you were in the Super Bowl every year, you were eight and one, people would automatically trust that they were doing the right thing and that they knew everything. Okay. Not with this organization. No. Right? I guess not.

Okay. But you asked me what I would do. Okay. So I wouldn't have this organization. I understand that. So I don't know anything about this situation other than what we read. This was his girlfriend. She OD'd.

She passed away. He and somebody else dropped her off or took her to the emergency room. They didn't call 911. one. They felt they were close enough that they should take her themselves and that they got her to the emergency emergency room. She OD'd. You know, there's a couple of reports out there that he hasn't even called the family. I don't know anything about the relationship. I don't know anything about this event. But this is what I wanted to get to because it really doesn't have anything to do with whether or not he played on Sunday. Because I would assume that they've got much more information

than I do and that the information came back. You know what? This is, you know, there's no fault here. The investigation is going to reveal nothing. You know, remember, they figured out the Ruben Foster thing pretty quickly, as it turned out, maybe they got lucky there. I think we both think that they got lucky there. But anyway, when Callahan was asked about this yesterday, he was asked about, you know, the decision to play him after a tragedy. And all of his answers were about his physical condition to play in the game.

He said, I don't think there was a huge decision relative to his health. I think that the plan all along was to play Monte. He was being prepared throughout the week, rehabilitating throughout the week, and it was going to come down to a game day decision. We had worked him out prior to the game, and he was okay to go. And we monitor that pretty closely and felt pretty positive about inserting him and starting him in the game. You know, I didn't get into all of that with respect to that.

He spoke to a lot of other people in the organization relative to that situation. From my perspective, in terms of playing him and the decision of playing him, was strictly based on coaching gathered with all the other information. information that I had. And then he went on and he said the following. He was prepared to play. Those questions were put forth and it was ultimately his decision to play. That's why when you work out a player before a game and when you go out and you take them through any type of pregame conditioning, pregame test or standard drill for that matter, it's always a player's decision whether they're ready to play or not. He was physically ready to play and wanted to play. So that was

strictly his decision and he had the freedom to make that decision. closed quote. He talked around this answer. He did say that was for somebody else in the organization to find out. And he's right. I understand that. But this is a sensitive situation. They were trying to get an answer that had nothing to do with his physical fitness. By the way, it's not the player's decision to play or not. The organization, the coaching staff, has the final decision on whether or not. He does not have the freedom to make that decision to play or not. given this context of there was an incident last week. There was an incident. I don't know how all the details. And you know what? I would bet that they don't even know all of the details at this point. They know more than I do.

But in that particular situation, last week on a 1-8 football team, I'm probably not going to play him unless the following happens. He comes to me and says, she would have wanted me to play. This is really important to me. It's cathartic. she would have wanted me to play. This is something I have to do. You know, this is, and I'm expecting an answer more in the lines of matching his play up to what happened, that there was this incident. And all he talked about was he was physically ready to play.

I don't know why you're harping on this. And it was his decision to play. I mean, of course. Hold on for one second. I admit right now, I concede to you that I could be completely. missing something here. Because when I talked about it on radio, I also had the sound, and we didn't play the sound there, but I read to you the transcript of what he played.

I heard him when he answered it. Yeah. Yeah. But again, that was a Belichickian kind of answer. Yeah. He knew what you were asking. He was going to give you a smart-ass answer. Why?

Because. There was a tragedy. There was an incident with one of his players. He didn't like you ask him. Oh, he didn't? No. I did not get that from the tone. Oh, that was no, not from the tone.

Look, this is not a dummy. He's not, he's not stupid. Really? No, he's not. He may be a little bit absent-minded professor-like, but he's still a professor. I mean, he's not a dummy. So he knew very well what his answer was and what, you know, the question was. And he was going to make you work for it if you really wanted.

He was going to make you come out and say, this is a guy that doesn't make you work for anything in his answers. I know. The answers are three. Do you know he had on Sunday after a loss? The longest press conference of any losing coach in the NFL this year. I was there. I may be exaggerating that.

I watch and listen to a lot of them. No one has a 17-minute press conference after a loss. Come on. This guy was not trying to make you work for an answer. Yes, he was. Oh, God. I think he was just being absent-minded. No, I don't think he's stupid.

I don't think he's brilliant. I think he was absent-minded. I think he purpose. gave you an answer to say, if you're going to ask me the question about should I have played a guy whose girlfriend OD on drugs, you better ask me that question. Right. Well, the question was asked, how did the decision to play him after this tragedy come about? Right.

And that's when he started to get into a lot of the physical fitness stuff. He was physically ready to play. It was him that made the decision. Our players make the decisions on whether or not they're ready to play. Really? They do? I mean, not to diminish what happened, but in the scheme of things, Monta Nicholson playing for this team. I didn't say it was in the scheme of things that it was, I was curious because to be honest with you, my gut feel is that if I'm the owner of this team and I'm not, and the one that is isn't, you know, a very good one, in this particular season with that kind of incident, and by the way, he's been hurt recently and missed games,

not going to play him unless again he comes to me and makes you know a personal plea this is important to me she would have wanted to meet or something having to do with this is really important it would be cathartic i want to be with my brothers i want to be with my teammates i want to play for her you know i don't know what the relationship was for all we know it wasn't even his girlfriend and maybe it's just been reported incorrectly i just think why play him on sunday and the coach if he's going to get asked the question he could see say something like that. I know what you're asking. I do. And there's a lot of information here. I can't even speak to. But we thought and he thought that it was the right thing for him to play.

Not that, you know, he's physically fit. And we tested him and his physical fitness before the game was really good. And he went through the drills, the standard drills, to see if he was ready to play physically or not. And you know, in those situations, the physical health situations, it's always a player's decision as to whether or not they're ready to play. Now you know why him and Bruce are buddies. Exactly. Now you know why him and Bruce Allen are close. Well, the two of them, you know, talk as if they're hedge fund managers in Silicon and in New York or investors in Silicon Valley.

They speak the same language. And they're not nearly as bright as most of those people. But they think they are. I think Callahan is smarter than Bruce Allen. I don't think either one of them is brilliant. But I don't think either one of them's stupid either. I'm not suggesting that. I think Callahan, these press conferences and these subtle shots at Jay Gruden,

you know, he was asked, I played this yesterday on the show, Tommy. The very last question of that epic press conference after the jet loss on Sunday was what I pointed out last week. I think with you, if not it was on another podcast. I said he keeps talking about uncharacteristic play. And everything about all these mental errors and these mistakes is totally characteristic. It's the norm. Yeah. And I don't know who it was at the end.

The very final question, you know, asked him, you keep referring to these situations as uncharacteristic. When it's actually the norm, why are you doing that? It was hysterical. The way the question was presented. He mentioned penalties. And then, of course, he went right after Jay with the penalties. He mentioned penalties. And then talked about the improvement in penalties.

But what if he's right when he says those things? He wasn't. But what if he's right when he takes the shots at Jay? What if they're deserved shots? I mean, you just said that Jay wasn't very good either. No, no, he wasn't. This guy's worse. He's worse.

He is worse. Okay, I mean, Jay Gruden is not a good football coach, head football coach. He is a, he does, I guarantee you, if you talk to football people, they'll say, yeah, give me Jay. I'll think Jay and his passing schemes and the whole thing. But the things that Callahan points out are true about Jay. And they're true about him, too, because the first two games without. Jay when he said, you know, when he, and I know this for, I've gotten it's from multiple sources. I told you this last week after the first practice after Jay got fired, he got the team around

him and he said, gentlemen, that's how you conduct an NFL practice, okay? And then they went on this streak of not scoring a touchdown for a month and a half or whatever it was. I mean, they're bad football team. They were bad to begin with. They're worse now. They should, I mean, and his schedule was a little bit easier than Jay's. Jay may have beaten the Jets. Now you mentioned they're a bad football team. You've said that before. They are. This is a horrible roster.

And it's a horrible coaching staff. Horrible coaching staff. Absolutely terrible. The roster is better than the coaching staff. Terrible coaching. Terrible roster. Let's get into this. How can you possibly judge anything about Dwayne Haskins

based on a roster of players around him like this and a coaching staff that he's got to deal with. How can you make any kind of judgment about this quarterback at this point? So I would say that it's really hard to, and you need many more games, but it would be the same way that you would view sort of him in the preseason. There are things that are not, you know, sort of contingent upon the talent around you or even the coaching staff, things that you see, you know, in a quarterback. I'm not going to act like, you know, a big time film break.

guy, but I'm a big football fan, and I consider, you know, all of us to a certain degree to have, you know, an informed opinion on this stuff. You're going to see a guy that, you know, can he throw it or not? Is he accurate or not? You're going to see a guy that has, does he have the natural anticipation throwing the football? Does he have natural feel in the pocket? These are all the things that have been encouraging to me, including Sunday. You know, he was not good, but most of his not good was pre-snap. You could see that Greg Williams was confusing. the hell out of him, which by the way, he does to a lot of quarterbacks. And I pointed out yesterday, for those that don't remember this, as the defensive coordinator in 2005 here,

Alex Smith's second start as an NFL professional quarterback in San Francisco was against Greg Williams. Just like Haskins, second start was against Greg Williams. Alex Smith threw for 92 yards and they lost the game 52 to 17, got sacked five times. So Greg Williams does not make it easy for you. But some of the things I have been impressed with are encouraged by, which I didn't think I would be when I did not like him coming out of the draft. He was not a big fan of Haskins as a first round guy. Still would not have drafted him in the first round. But he has natural feel in the pocket.

He's got good, you know, off schedule, extend the play inside and outside the pocket. He's more mobile than I thought. And maybe it's just because at Ohio State with all that talent, he didn't have to show his mobility. you know, and he can throw it. He definitely can throw it, and you can see that he throws with anticipation. You can see that in the Buffalo game. There are things there that I think are encouraging. Do I think he's going to be an elite quarterback?

No. Do I think he's got a chance to be a starting quarterback in the NFL? 50-50, you know, in terms of a long-term starter. But he does have some natural things that as a football fan, you can recognize are things that if he didn't have, I'd already, I would have written him off already. Now, what we don't know is, you know, his work ethic and is he going to improve? Is he going to learn? Is he going to progress when it comes to, for most quarterbacks, the most important part of the game,

which is, what are you looking at when you walk up to the line of scrimmage? Right. You know, and most young quarterbacks don't have it right away. Take some time. And the one thing, and I've mentioned this to you before, I don't hear about him from the people that I know out there that would know. I don't hear that he's a bad guy or he's immature or he's dumb. I've heard that he's a good kid and he's smart. So, you know, I do think we have to give it time.

And I do, and by the way, to answer your question, sorry, roundabout way of getting to, yeah, you do have to consider what he has around him. And would it be a better fit with a better coaching staff and with better players around him? Sure, you have to consider that. But most of these young quarterbacks don't get drafted in the top half of the first round. But they usually have, you know, you would hope sometimes they have good coaching. Like when Mike, look, I know this is going to be sacrilegious for some people. I know.

I know what's coming. But when Mike Shanahan took over here, you had a feeling that whoever they brought in as quarterback would be well coached. Yes. And well prepared, even though they were a losing team and they weren't very good. So a lot of these situations, you have a new coach taking over a losing team who you know is much better prepared to coach a staff than anybody here over at Redskins Park. I mean, of course I got the typical reaction, which you know I got when I said yesterday on radio or podcast, maybe both. Imagine Kyle Shanahan as the head coach with Kirk Cousins as the quarterback. Do you think they'd be one in nine?

You're a moron if you do. Now, would they be nine and one like they are in San Francisco? You're John Lynch and they've got, you know, a decent supporting structure around Kyle? Probably not because Dan would still be here. You know, Bruce might even still be here. But, you know, this is the problem. You know, the big picture problem is they're unable to identify talent when it's right there in front of them because they're not sharp enough football-wise to identify the talent.

And then if that talent has an edge to it, Tommy, an arrogance to it, which Kyle does, well, we can't have people just like us. We've got to get rid of them. We've got to get rid of them. Now, you mentioned Dwayne Haskins and all the positive things you've heard about him. There have been some negatives, too. Okay. Now let me just point out, let's get into the next thing about Haskins.

The sideline conversation with his offensive line. I watched him. I was at the game. So being at the game, I had a chance to see this. Yeah, well, I think we saw it better on television and on social media where NBC four filmed it. I'm talking about before that conversation. He, when he got sacked before that conversation. Right.

And it was probably the worst sack of the game. Jamal Adams, big one. He took a while getting up. Yes. And he looked like he was in discomfort a little bit. He looked injured. Yes. Yeah.

So he came off the field and I watched, I followed him the whole time, and he walked the length of the, he didn't talk to anybody. He walked the length of the bench back and forth and back and forth about six times. Without talking to anybody. He didn't sit down with Kevin O'Connell. He didn't sit down with Colt McCoy or Case Keatom. He didn't do it. He just paced the length of the bench about a half dozen times.

clearly angry and frustrated. Then he went to his offensive lineman. And he had been working that up in his mind that he was going to say something to him in that conversation. That provides really interesting context. I think that it wasn't, then it wasn't purely an emotional reaction to just getting sacked. He thought about it.

No, he wanted to say something. Good. Yeah, so he did that. So what's your point? My point is, what do you realize? in the reaction that we can from afar of the lineman? I think it's really hard to really react, but we'll do it anyway. Let's deal with possibilities.

Not what we know, but possibility. First of all, let's describe it for those that haven't seen it. There was not much of a reaction other than from Morgan Moses, who seemed to engage him at the very ending conversation. The other offensive lineman seemed to be nearly ignoring him to a certain degree. as he pled, what do you need me to do? What can I do to make this better? Possibility number one is they're blowing them off because they don't respect them.

Like, get out of here. You're the one that's causing all these sacks. You know, you're not, and Morgan Moses did describe, you know, there's seven coming, we've only got five blocking. And by the way, I went back and looked at some of these sacks. Not completely true in some of those situations. Mist blocks up front. I don't think all of those sacks were on Haskins, you know, and so maybe the offensive line is like,

you know, dude, get out of here. You're the reason you're getting sacked because you can't figure out where the mic is. You can't figure out where Jamal Adams is coming from. You don't even recognize zone versus man. So there's that. There is the one in nine football team getting their ass kicked and they've checked out on the season. Like they're thinking about where they going to be for Thanksgiving. Thank God they don't have to play on Thanksgiving this year. Yes. It's been three years in a row. Yes, I know. Thank goodness for that. And what you typically get at the end of the season with a horrible football team, it's guys thinking about the offseason. Like, where am I going to be next year? Who would I like? How can I get out of here?

Yes. So there was some of that. What are the other possibilities? The other possibilities were, you know, they were listening and they just didn't have a response. I don't know. I've got one for you. Give it to me. Okay. And let's tie this in. to the narrative that we've heard that has cropped up at times throughout the season about Dwayne Haskins. We've heard enough to believe that he wasn't staying up at night, reading, studying the playbook. When he was a backup. Was he on the team? He was on the team.

No, I'm not, I'm not excusing it. Okay. I'm just saying during those weeks where he was the back. Right. So he wasn't a diligent student. He wasn't doing. we heard about body language, practice habits, study habits. What we heard was a rookie quarterback who was not doing everything he could to be prepared

and to win the respect of his teammates. So if I'm an offensive lineman and I'm sitting here and I watch this go on throughout the season, I watched this kid, you know, maybe mope sometimes in practice, maybe not know the plays that they were running in practice, you know, maybe gave me a little bit of body language and attitude along the way. And I'm sitting here and all of a sudden, this guy's going to be going to be Bert Jones and screaming at me, you know, where were you five weeks ago?

That was a good when Burke Jones used to get fired up with his receivers. Yeah, five weeks ago, six weeks ago, what were you doing? and now you're yelling at me? Right. I mean, I think... I don't know that he was yelling at them. I think one possibility was that they looked at this kid and said, you?

Where was this when you were the backup? Where was this, you know, the fire and desire the whole time you've been here? You know, because as much as RG3 may have been a disaster as it turned out, initially he engaged his teammates they loved him because he was willing to do everything well they also realized that it paid to love him yes i know because it pays to love this guy too yeah it does because this this is their only hope right now yeah i think i think part of it too is just the or another possibility and i guess it's sort of your possibility but it's it's a little bit different is that, you know, the organization has made the decision to move on to try to develop this guy,

to get a sense of what he is by playing him. And I think everybody realizes, the players on the team realize, that they would have a much better chance to look more competent offensively with Case or Colt. Yes. They probably believe that. They probably do. But that's, you know what, sorry about that. This is an organizational decision.

I know. I get that. You know, if you wanted your guys to play, then you should have played better in the competitive. portion of our season. Yes. So we would have been playing for stakes. I agree with that. I agree with that.

I just raised in this possibility that the narrative we heard about about Dwayne Haskins earlier this season, you know, could have been in play in the offensive lineman's reaction to all of a sudden this guy is going to be screaming at me about what can I do, you know? I mean, I just think, I just think it's possible. he has not built up a level of respect among his teammates oh i think that that's more than possible i think it's likely but uh but that's a problem but i would wonder how many young rookie quarterbacks get it right away oh i think i think i think on effort desire and work i think

if you're a rookie quarterback and those are things within your control knowledge may not be within your control. Experience may not be within your control, but work ethic and attitude, they're definitely within your control. I think those things are important for other veteran players on the team. I'm not discounting that, but I think the worst case would be if you're that

and then on top of it, you're not a good guy, you know, and on top of it, you're an a-hole. And on top of that, you're entitled. Okay, that would be worse. Much worse.

That would be worse. Yeah, because it's a personal thing that makes that person, not likable. That would be Jeff George. Yeah. Or, you know, towards the end of that year, and certainly the following year, RG3. Yes. You know, who was going into, you know, weight, you know, workouts and weight rooms and turning the music that was off and putting his own music on. Right. And telling coaches, you know,

on the team, I'm going to put a good word in for you with the boss. Yeah. You know, so there was a lot of that. I want to, so anyway, are we done with Haskins? Because I got one more Redskins thing. Where else do you want to go with Haskins? Do I have control over this moment? Sure, absolutely. You always do. Okay, we're done with Haskins.

I mean, to your first question, I don't know what we're going to know at the end of the year. Yeah. I have no idea what we're going to know at the end of the year, but I'd much rather have a chance to evaluate him starting in games than no games. I have no problem with him starting for this team now at this point. I'm okay with that. Be fine.

So one of the things, one last Redskins thing real quickly, Doc yesterday on his show with Galdi said that the players were mad about Callahan holding practice on the Wednesday of the by week, which is perfectly acceptable and allowable under the CBA rules. Players were really upset that he made him come in and practice, and then they had back-to-back padded practices last week. in preparation for the Jets, and they didn't like that either. And so I was thinking about this, because I've been thinking about, you know, what Snyder's next move.

First of all, I'm going to emphasize this again, as I did on the podcast and with you, I think last week. I, this isn't a report. I don't think Bruce is going to be here. I know I said the same thing last year. Probably be wrong again. I know you don't agree with me, and most people in the media don't agree with me. I don't think Bruce is going to be here next when this season.

Well, sooner or later, you're probably going to be right. Yeah, sooner or later, I'll probably be right. But I think it's going to be this year. Okay. I don't see him coming back. There are things that I have a hunch on based on information, but I don't know it for fact. But I would lean heavily that Bruce Allen's not going to be back, which means a third idiot will be sought. Yes, exactly.

So Snyder's going to be in that position of being by himself again and having to find somebody. And this complaint about the practices that Doc reported, you know, remember last year, you know, in December, there were complaints about the practices. And then DJ Swaranger was the guy that said, you guys don't practice hard enough around here. You know, so. And they got right of him quick. So one of the reasons that they moved on from Gruden, you know, this year and gave Callahan the gig is that, you know, Callahan convinced them that he was, you know, not the go-along get-along guy that Jay was, that he's a command. of discipline and accountability. He told you that in that first press conference.

We're not going to have, we're bringing referees into these practices. You know, we're going to do things differently after the first practice. That's how you do a practice, an NFL practice. And so what I do think that the owner has, and I think Bruce is the same way. I think they're on the same wavelength with respect to this. I think it's instructive as far as what they're going to search for. They're going to search for a tough guy. That's what they want.

The go-along get-along guy that Jay was. that personality. It made it, they finally figured it out. It made it too easy for players to have influence over the way they got coached. You know, and a guy, an old school guy like Callahan, sat there and witnessed it first row and didn't like it and knew and convince Bruce, you give this thing to me and you get rid of that guy and it's all going to change. You know, and it hasn't changed. They're getting 11 penalties, the worst penalty penalty game of the year with two weeks to prepare for the worst team in the NFL not named them or the Bengals. And, you know, they hadn't scored a touchdown in a month and a half.

And, you know, all of it. I mean, it's been a terrific disaster. I'm not sure Zorn isn't better than Callahan as a head coach. But anyway, I think it's instructive as far as what they're going to look for. And that's why I would keep a very close eye on Greg Williams. I think Greg Williams is a guy that, you know, according to reports, still has a relationship with Snyder or has a better relationship than he did in 2008, when he had four interviews with Snyder, four different interviews, and finally Dan said, you want too much control and you're really a pain in the ass, you know? And Vinny, you know, Vinny was like, oh, we can't give Greg. Greg's going to impede on my, my area of responsibility. And they probably made a big mistake there. They should have hired

and then, you know, when Joe Gibbs retired. But now, after the five and a half years of go-along, get along, Jay, and players basically being able to dictate, you know, and the inmates running the asylum for the lack of a better description, they want to go the opposite of that, and Dan's going to want to go the opposite of that. Now, I mentioned Marvin Lewis this morning, and then it occurred to me,

was there a team that lacked more discipline than the Bengals? Yeah. You know, with Vantes Burrfect and company. But Lewis is a respected guy as a coach, a really good defensive mind. It's that kind of person that, first of all, those are the guys that can't get gigs anywhere else, so they'll be available. You know, Greg Williams should have been the coach in Cleveland last year. But I think that that's going to be the direction in which Dan will turn when this season ends.

is somebody like Greg Williams, and he'll have to give up some power. He's going to have to give Greg some power. Yeah, but that's irrelevant. I know. That means nothing. But you know, Greg Williams is no dummy. Greg Williams isn't a head coach and hasn't taken opportunities because he wasn't given what he wanted.

And nobody knows this situation better than Greg Williams. And Greg Williams is not going to take the gig unless he's got the proper amount of say-so. Because he knows what the owner is. He knows the meddling possibility. He knows all of that. So if Greg Williams ends up getting this gig, I think it's because he got a big say-so, maybe even a contractual say-so, like Marty did. And maybe Kyle Smith gets elevated as the GM title,

but if it's Greg Williams, he comes as head coach and VP of Football Ops, that kind of title and power. I can't believe. That I'm getting duped into it. I'm not. No, no, that we are talking as a move, a change for the better, hiring the guy who almost got drummed out of the league for Bounty Game. And just think, if they had hired Greg Williams in 2008,

then you could add Bounty Gate to the Redsons. You could. Yeah. But, you know, they wouldn't have had, Greg Williams can coach defense. Oh, yeah, I know that. You know, he can really. I know. And I, but I think that whether it's Greg Williams or somebody like him,

I mean, I think that's why we've heard the Tomlin, you know, stuff. And I don't think Tomlin's going to end up here. He's doing a hell of a job this year in Pittsburgh. Yes. But that's why you've heard some of the Tomlin stuff, is that Dan's now in that mindset of, I can't have the guy that everybody likes anymore. I've got to have a guy that, you know, lays down the law,

and we've got real practices. And they actually, Bruce really convinced Dan that old Bill was going to be the guy. When Bill took over, Tommy, they looked at the schedule. They thought they had a chance to go nine and seven. They did. They really did. This was going to be, you'll see, we're about to prove it to you now that Jay's gone. And that's been their nature all along.

It's always someone else's fault. Don't you think that one of his confidants he would rely on would be Joe Gibbs for making this decision? I would think so. Now, Joe Gibbs, by the way, who just won another NASCAR title. I know. God. Five of them. He's just a winner. I mean, it's just really amazing.

You know, I think it would be totally, you know, something that would fall on deaf ears with the fan base if he tried to make Joe out to be like Joe's handling all of it. It just would reek of one of those nostalgic moves that have failed also. No, I'm saying privately. Yeah. Well, I mean, if he does it privately, he's going to try to make it public. I mean, he's going to, if Joe's involved, Dan understands that people like Joe and like Joe a lot. And he's going to look for the bump that'll come with it.

All I'm suggesting is it won't be the bump that it's been in the past. No, it won't. No, what about Todd Bulls? I do like Todd Bulls. You think that he's still a possibility? And his defense is terrible right now, Tampa. I know. I know. Do I think it's, I don't know.

I mean, again, I think the, you know, anybody that doesn't have any other opportunity to be a head coach is going to listen. That's going to be the pool in which they're, they're searching from. It's going to, it's the pool where they can't find a head gig. No one else is going to give them a head gig. They're not in position to go out and get the best. No, they're not. So Urban Myers. not going to come here?

No. Urban Meyer. Can you imagine? Lincoln, Riley? No. No. No. No.

No chance. No chance on either one of them. Although I did read, somebody sent me this the other day. Urban Meyer talked about the differences between Borough and Haskins. Did you read that? I had heard people talking about it. Aaron, did you see that? Urban Meyer weighed in on some.

And I think he had Haskins above Borough. Yeah, he said Haskins is more talented than Burrow, but Burrough's got more natural leadership, yeah. You know, ability. You know, that was also Joe Burrow from a couple of years ago. Joe Burrow, to me, looks like Aaron Rogers. He looks like the real deal. But, you know, it's so hard to project on these guys. Quick word about mybooky.ag, guys, if you're looking for a place to bet and don't take my picks right now, they are not, they have failed you here over the last month. MyBooky.orgie.ag is one of those places you can rely on. quality lines, fast payouts. And when I say fast payouts, once you've played to the level that you have to play to,

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You play you win. You get paid. Kaepernick. Quick thoughts on Kaepernick from you. I spent 15 minutes on it yesterday. You know, I thought Mike Jones had a good article in USA Today. Excellent. Did a great job with it.

You really did a great job and really brought home what was going on here. It's still very confusing because, I mean, the language of the waiver that they wanted him to sign is an issue. but Kaepernick obviously turned it into you know a publicity event for his for his own agenda and you know what's interesting

you know it was like you remember you saw Braveheart you've seen Braveheart where where Mel Gibson as William Wallace sends you know burns down the cast burns down a fort and then tells those English soldiers to go back home and tell them Scotland's sons and daughters are theirs no longer.

Tell them Scotland is free. That was Colin Kaepernick when he told reporters, tell NFL owners to stop running. He was William Wallace on the battlefield saying, you know, tell them to stop running. He was William Wallace, but not really interested in the fight necessarily. No. So, look, and it's ironic that the Redskins of all teams would have sent them, because it would be the worst marriage in history

because the Redskins can't afford to sign him and alienate their military and defense corporate sponsorship base. And Kaepernick, there's no way he could come play for a team that has a name that's supposedly so offensive. So, I mean, I don't understand why the Redskins of all teams were there. But if you're going to sign Colin Kaepernick, it's never going to be as a backup quarterback. Oh, God, no.

He could only be the starter. He absolutely etched that one in stone on Saturday with that fiasco. If anybody was even thinking about it. You can't have your backup holding press conferences every week, which is what it would be. So, you know, he's going to go on to be an important person, at least in some people's minds, in terms of social justice among athletes,

but he's never going to play in the NFL. No, I think that that was, Absolutely the way the day was handled. I mentioned Tommy yesterday that, first of all, from the league's perspective, this was so dumb to do in hindsight. It's one of those situations, you know, I said, you know, all of us have been in there where you've made a decision to do something and it didn't work out and you're like, I didn't even have to do that. Like, I didn't need to do this. And I brought it on myself. They brought it all on themselves.

Yes. They didn't need to do this. Ratings are up. Nobody's talking about Kaepernick. It was really stupid to do, and I'm sure they regretted it. Now, some people, I'm sure, felt like it really exposed Kaepernick and maybe lifted the league's position a little bit, but no Kaepernick supporter changed their mind at all.

But bottom line is, you know, it was revealing from this perspective, in my view, is that, you know, if you really, really, really wanted back in, you don't call them up 30 minutes before your interview and workout and change the venue by 60 miles and the time. You know, if you really, really want back in and you've really been begging for this opportunity, no matter how it was thrown together, you take advantage of the opportunity

to go work out in front of 25 teams instead of six or seven. And, you know, ultimately, I don't know that he's stupid, so I think that, you know, he had to know what the result of this would be, which is now he's never going to play in the league. The way where they wanted him to sign was a problem. No, it was, well, it was a problem for him. Yes. But it would not have been a problem for anybody that really, really wanted to be in the league.

Unless they didn't trust the people who were running it in the first place. Yeah, at some point, trust. I mean, there is. At some point, if you really want something badly enough, trust doesn't have anything to do with it. But there is a school of thought that says it would have precluded him from another possible lawsuit down the line if he felt it needed to. And I think that that's reasonable for him to be concerned about. The waiver, according to Mike Jones's column and multiple columns that have come out have essentially said, look, it was one of those deals where maybe there was a different, that it was a typical waiver for any free agent with one exception. And that is, perhaps they went to one extra length to make sure that he didn't come back after them if nobody signed him after this workout.

Which, by the way, is totally justifiable if you're the league. You've already settled one collusion grievance with him. Why would you want, if there's a possibility, come back after you again? And that's why I say, well, if his goal was to play in the league again, and most people have written this over the last 24 hours, this was not a waiver. If you really wanted back in, that you wouldn't have signed. And at the same time, I say, if I'm the league, I would have just let the media in.

Because the media was the other thing, this transparency thing. I would have just said, sure, have them come in. What was the big downside to the media being in there for the league? I don't know. You know, other than it's not the way we do it except for our rookies, Indy Combine. We don't do this on Tuesdays when a free agent comes into workout. The media doesn't come in and document it. But there was, you know, he wanted his own people.

He wanted his own people to throw. I mean, how about Hugh Jackson? More on this, you know, came out yesterday. He was really P-Oed. And, you know, he flew in to run this workout. Yeah. And when Kaepernick changed it, he got on the plane and said, this was a total waste of my time, and he's wasting everybody's time.

But, you know, what does Hugh Jackson, though? He went 0-N-32 or whatever as a head coach. You've got to be pretty smart to have that kind of record and keep your job. Yeah, yeah. Somehow, some way. All right, anything else? That's it, boss. I think that's it for me, too.

James Hardin's amazing to watch. Too bad the NBA isn't. I know. Maryland plays tonight. Aaron and I will be into that. They're up to number six in the country. They've got a chance here over the next couple of weeks to run out. You're going to run out to like a 9-0, 10-0 start.

You know, they've never been ranked number one, never in the regular season. But they've been ranked two more times than any program in the history of college basketball without being ranked number one. So they may, you know, there's a chance they could get with their schedule. they could get off to 10 and 0, 9 and 0, 10 and 0 start. And if there's some upsets elsewhere, they could maybe be the number one team in the country at some point. Of course, now they'll go out and lose to Fairfield tonight. No, they won't.

They're 27-point favorites. All right, thanks. See you on Thursday. Thanks to Aaron. Thanks to all of you. Rate us, review us, subscribe. If you're on any platform that allows you to do that, doesn't cost you a thing.

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