The Kevin Sheehan Show - Wiz End Isn't #1 + Thom on Taylor H.

Episode Date: May 12, 2026

Kevin and Thom today opened with NFL Schedule news, the retirement of a Jan Vesely, and Thom's thoughts on the Wizards' getting the #1 pick in next month's NBA Draft. Today was Thom's first chance to talk about Taylor Heinicke's retirement and he did. The boys talked LeBron James and whether or not last night was the last game of his career. Plenty of other items on today's menu of excellence as well.   For all your football betting needs: DCRELOAD at MyBookie for a 50% Deposit Match   Chime is not just smarter banking, it is the most rewarding way to bank. Head to www.Chime.com/SHEEHAN. It only takes a few minutes to sign up.   Get 20% off your first order at www.FastGrowingTrees.com with code [Sheehan].   Refresh your everyday with luxury you'll actually use. Head to www.quince.com/SHEEHAN for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada, too. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Here's Kevin. Tommy's here. I am here. The show's presenting sponsor, as always,

Window Nation, 86690 Nation. Window Nation.com. Either one works. Mention my name. They'll come out and take really good care of you. Of course, Tommy wants to weigh in on the Wizards, finally winning the lottery. But I start with this from Jason.

Jason writes, Kevin, you were right. No Thanksgiving, but if you are correct about the schedule makers finding JD5 appealing, maybe Christmas Day again? Question mark. First of all, Jason, they're not going to play Dallas on Thanksgiving. Philadelphia is. That game got announced yesterday afternoon, and they don't have Detroit on the schedule, but there is a Thanksgiving night game. which is a possibility. They hosted that back in 2017. So don't count Thanksgiving day or night out quite yet. I did not have it, Tommy, and my mock schedule.

I didn't have them playing on Thanksgiving or Christmas this year. It certainly seems like the odds have been reduced significantly that they would play on Thanksgiving Day. Remember, there is a Thanksgiving Eve game this year as well, so they could play in that. I'm going to guess that they're not playing Christmas Day two years in a row. This is not a preference for most NFL teams to play on Christmas Day. Some teams don't mind it, but giving teams back-to-back years on Christmas Day is probably something they've got to bounce off the teams to make sure they're okay with that.

I think there's going to be a Christmas Eve night game. but yeah, Thanksgiving, not dead yet, Jason. Christmas Day, I would say no, but we'll find out as the schedule comes out in its entirety Thursday night, but there have been more games that have been leaked since the podcast yesterday, including the week two Thursday night

Buffalo Detroit game to open up Buffalo's new stadium, and then the week one Monday night game, which is Kansas City and Denver, even though there's no location for it yet. This schedule, Tommy, has become massive for the league. You see every single day they're leaking something out to create headlines because there's that much interest. Yeah. I know, you know, I don't think there'll be a Thanksgiving day game for commanders

because it would seem to be unusual to have three, of the teams in the NFC East play on that day. Good, good, good point. Yeah, really good point. Although, I think it's happened before. I'd have to go check, but I think Philadelphia played one Thanksgiving night when Washington and Dallas played during the afternoon, but I'd have to go back and check on that, which I can. And I don't think Washington being a god-fearing team would want to play on Christmas two years in a row.

How god-fearing are they? How do you know that they're god-fearing? I'm just assuming they're God-fearing. Okay. A lot of teams are pretty god-fearing. The Joe Gibbs skins, they were God-fearing. That's for sure. They ran the altar.

Absolutely. I mean, they were looking for, Coach Joe was looking for a congregation. There's no doubt about it. I'm not saying that he excluded players who didn't believe in, that weren't believers, but he certainly embraced those that were, right? Is that a fair way to say it? I think the consensus was, it certainly, if you were looking for edges and you were a player to make the team, that's one you would embrace.

Yes. Yeah, that would be one that you'd want the coach to know, hey, coach, I know that we've got practice. I just want you to know I'll be getting there about two minutes before it starts to know earlier because I'll be coming from Mass. I'll be coming from church. I'm looking through these Thanksgiving Day games. I am pretty sure that Washington recently played in Philadelphia played at night.

Let me just find it Nope, it doesn't look like it Doesn't look like it So you might be right You might be right It might be just two NFC East teams That's enough for one holiday So Tommy

They have a small pool to pick from They have a large pool of teams That they can choose Right, yeah I've got some breaking news for you And it's really Yeah I think it'll be a good segue into getting your reaction to the Wizards winning the lottery on Sunday.

Jan Vesely is retiring from professional basketball. The Wizards' sixth pick in the 2011 draft announced he intends to retire at the end of this season. He's playing currently for FC Barcelona. and he said he'll call it a career when the Liga ACB season comes to an end. He put out this statement on social media, quote, After many unforgettable years,

the time has come to close the chapter of my basketball journey. From Belgrade to Istanbul to Barcelona, I was privileged with countless battles, outstanding teammates, coaches, most loyal fans, many victories and tough losses, a whirlwind of emotions and a collection of memories that will stay with me forever. I gave everything I had to this game, and it gave me even more in return.

I leave with gratitude and pride. We still have two months to fight in the ACB League, and my full focus remains there until the very last game. And as of September, see you from the stands, closed quote. So... So... No, I guess he didn't... He didn't include Washington in that journey.

No, no. Nor should he. Well, no. I mean, he barely played in the NBA. He had... Right, right. How many years he had four seasons in the NBA, he had three seasons, two and a half seasons in Washington, and a half season in Denver.

So it was basically three full seasons in the NBA where he averaged his best average was his rookie year in Washington. He averaged 4.7 points per game. You know, that draft will always remind me that you were adamant that the wizard should pick your guy, Kauai Leonard, in that draft. And he didn't go to number 12, right? 15, I think, was Kauai.

I think Janice, like in terms of like some of the all-time great, I think Janus was 12 and then I'm pretty sure Kauai was 15. But when I had John Wall on the show on Friday, I asked him about the last time that he had represented the team at the lottery, which was 2011, and they, you know, fell to six. And I said, you know, did you have a preference? I'm assuming it wasn't Jan Vesley. And he said, I did. He said, Clay Thompson. I really wanted us to draft Clay Thompson. And I said, well, did you tell Ernie? And he said, no, I was, you know, I just finished my rookie year. I wasn't in position to go in and tell Ernie who to draft, but he goes, can you imagine Clay Thompson and John Wall in the same back court? That would have been one hell of a combination.

Because Clay, I mean, let's face it, Clay was much better than Bradley Beal. Now, Bradley Beal. Clay benefited. Yeah. Clay benefited from playing with Steph. obviously. But Clay Thompson was a great defender during the course of his career. And he was an unbelievable shooter. And he would have been phenomenal next to John instead of Bradley Beal. And no offense to Brad. That could have changed history right there. Bessaly was the sixth pick in that draft. That's what I said. Yeah. Didn't I say that?

No, you said 12th. No, I said Janus was the, I said, when I think about the great players in the game, that didn't go like number one overall or top 10, Janice, I think, went 12, Kauai went 15, and then, of course, the Joker went in the second round. You know, in terms of, you know, the last 10 years, some of the true superstars of the game. I mean, you don't actually typically get them at number one overall, you know? I mean, number one, number one picks. When was SGA picked? SGA was, I'm going to, okay, I'm going to guess on this.

I think it was four or five. That would have been the 2018, 2018? Hold on, 2019. Hold on, I'll get it right. He was picked 11th. Oh, 11th? Yes. Which draft?

In a 2018 draft. 2018 draft. Yes. 11th. Okay, I thought he was higher. But still, yeah. Yeah. I mean, the number, the, you know, the all-time list of number ones. All right, let's get this up in front of us. Because I was going through this list actually yesterday before the show. It's unbelievable how often that number one pick didn't really turn out to be much. So Cooper flagged last year, Rissach the year before Atlanta doesn't look like a, very good pick. Wembenyama, obviously Wembenyama is, you know, going to be, I think, one of the greatest to ever do it. Bancaro is really good, Cunningham, really good, Anthony Edwards, really good. We've had a run here of pretty good. Zion Williamson, 2019, at this point, not worth number one overall. DeAndre 8 in the year before that, not worth number one overall. Fultz the year before that,

Simmons the year before that. So you had four straight years, and Zion was supposed to be one of those guys that was an absolute lock and, you know, to be a great player. Carl Anthony Towns in 2015, I think Katz are really good player. He's not a top five, top 10 player. No. But he's a really good player. And then you had Andrew Wiggins, Anthony Bennett in back-to-back years. Anthony Davis was 2012.

Kyrie was 2011. John Wall was 2010. And then before John in the 2000s, you had guys like Greg Oden, Barniani, Bogot, Quami Brown, Kenyon Martin. I mean, you know, more misses at number one overall this century than hits. Best case 50-50. Yeah, so Wall said in that 2011 draft, Clay Thompson would have been his guy. I'm trying to find, like, I didn't know that Jan Vesley was still playing. I had no idea.

I had heard. He was playing in Europe. He made the all-Euro League first team in 16, 18, 19, and was the MVP in 2019? I actually now think that I do remember that. I think I remember that. He's 36 years old. Man, time flies. Not Ernie's best.

Not Ernie's best. he didn't draft particularly well. A lot of good trades, but not a lot of good draft picks. But Clay Thompson would have been a good pick. John Wall, I think his path, and he told me this on Friday, you know, this Howard job may be the first step

on the way to potentially being a future GM. I think that's what he wants to do, you know, is be a general manager in the NBA at some point. You know, but don't generally, I mean, aren't general managers in all sports now, particularly baseball and somewhat basketball, they're not necessarily pick, they don't want guys who necessarily who were players. Let's face it. They want Ivy League geeks. Yes, there's a lot of that. Certainly in baseball.

Yes. Yeah. Yes. Okay, so let's get to it. I want to hear what you thought of the Wizards winning the lottery, and I know you wrote a column on it. I just read it before we started to record, so what did you think? Well, I thought it was great.

I thought it was great for the Wizards fans because they finally had something to cheer about other than cheering for losing, which they had become accustomed to. It's great for the organization because now they get to pick and choose the top talent in a very talented draft. You know, maybe somebody who could be a game-changing player to add in with what they've built over there, a core of good young players. But they didn't really accomplish anything. okay

I mean they got they got the luck of the lottery they didn't they could have done this two years ago or last year but they didn't

yeah because luck didn't go their way right what they did to do this was to lose enough games

to improve their odds this is what they accomplished okay so my point is now they are relevant and the column basically your theme of it is. But people should not accept

that that's enough. Just because they're relevant, it shouldn't be enough if you're a Wizards fan. You should demand more. Okay? And you should not forget that. You should enjoy the moment. You should support the team.

But, you know, I don't want to return to the John Wall era or the Gilbert Arena's era of the second round exits if I'm a team, I want a team that's going to break through that 50-win barrier, that Eastern Conference semifinals barrier. Only then, then you can come tell me that you've accomplished something.

Wow. I mean, thanks for listening to the show yesterday. I'm kidding, because I know you didn't. But I got this email, and I'm going to read it now. I wasn't planning on reading it, but it came from our guy Yale who wrote, Kevin, you were right. Tom and people like me were wrong. The ends justified the means. I wasn't on board with any of the tanking over the last few years. I thought it was just more Mayor Ted presiding over Luserville.

But congrats on number one, the team is finally worth some attention. And on the show yesterday, I pushed back against that. And I said, that's actually not the way I feel at all. all. There's no, you know, there's no end yet. This is phase one. Nothing's been accomplished yet. It would have been better for them to get number one last year than this year. You know, it was always about getting lucky, you know, in the lottery. Increasing your odds for sure, you know. There's no doubt that increasing your odds, you know, in making sure you're not picking 12th or 11th or 10th with 35 wins. You don't want to be that.

That would be the wrong place to be. I'm totally, as you know, in favor of what they've been doing. But this process hasn't created an end yet. So the means can't be justified if we're not at the end. The end isn't getting number one. There's no result. There's no result yet. No result, not even close to a result yet.

The result of what new management has done is lose 163. three games, I think, in three. No, I disagree with that. That's that, the losing of 196 games in three years, that's what it is, by the way, over 65 a year. What it's done is it has allowed them to be successful here in the first phase of trying to become, you know, a consistent winning upper echelon NBA team again, because during these three years, Tommy, on the roster, right? now. They have seven players picked in the first round of the last three drafts, all 24 and younger. Over the next seven drafts, they've got eight first rounders and 12 second round picks. They've used other picks and other players to acquire assets that turned into other assets,

like Anthony Davis and Trey Young. They've handled this first phase, I think, very well. but it doesn't create the end. It just creates maybe a better chance for a successful end. The end doesn't come until you find out whether or not, with all of this capital, they got the right players. And then, oh, by the way, they developed the players well and coached the players well. That doesn't come for another few years, minimum. We won't know the answer to that.

I found it interesting that Yale suggested that I take like a victory lap because they got number one. That's stupid. I mean, they could have gotten number one, as you pointed out, two years ago in 24. And, you know, and by the way, Sarr or Rissachet, it wouldn't have worked out well. I would have much, I'd love to swap last year's Cooper flag number one for this year's number one. you know? Absolutely. But, and by the way, maybe I'm not even going to be right about that.

Maybe A.J. DeBonce is going to be the next, you know, something. But yeah, no, I'm with you. Like, Sunday was a good thing, but it wasn't the end. I think the team's done a nice job with this first part of this. So, but this led to me talking about on the show, Tommy, yesterday. What would the definition of an, end that justified the means? What end would be, you know, justifiable? Let me be clear. Starting down this road to me was justifiable because they just were an organization that wasn't

going to be able to do it any other way. So I was in favorite from day one, even though the last three years have been painful. And really, I mean, I can't believe how much I've checked out. Somebody might say what I used to say about the skins way back in the day when I'd say things like, okay, well, Mike Shanahan's here. Things are going to get better. And if you can't handle, you know, a couple of tough years, you know, check back in. The men will stay here and man the boats. And the truth is over the last two years, I mean, I tune in occasionally, but I am not and have not been invested.

It's just hard to be invested in a team that's that bad. I've watched enough to get a sense of who I like and who I don't like. But they've done this part correctly, I think, and they've given themselves a lot of opportunities. I mean, keep in mind, I mean, there was the trade of Bradley Beale that was so hard when you think about it. I mean, that was such a big mistake by the organization to give him a no trade clause and not trade him the year before. But they did a nice job with that trade. They did a nice job with the Chris Paul trade. They've done, you know, there's been a lot of accumulated,

young first round talented players that have been added to this roster. I will say that I personally don't see a future MVP on the roster right now. I don't. Maybe that's coming in the form of. Bonser or Peterson or somebody else. But back to the question. I defined, from my standpoint, what success would look like and make the three years sort of justifiable based on the result.

I'm curious as to what you think it is. You sort of spelled it out, and it wasn't that far away from mine, but spell it out again. Three, four years from now, what does this franchise need to be? to say, see, it worked. You see, I'm not going to go ahead and demand an NBA championship. Right. I mean, that's kind of understood.

Every, you know, any team that's competing, that's what you should want. But a measure of that they've actually accomplished something to change the direction of the franchise, you know, not just another hill, you know, to get out of the valley. It's the 50 win mark. It's the Eastern, reaching Eastern Conference finals. Yeah, I mean, I went a little bit further, not specific to a season result, but I just said what will define, you know, an ending that you look back and say, wow, that was well worth it.

to your point, a championship, you know, demanding a championship in this sport is not realistic. I'm not saying that I don't want it to happen, but you have to, you have to land on one of these transcendent players to win the title in this league. You just do. But I said, I want the Wizards to become a team that is upper echelon in the NBA. To me, that means they win 45 to 50 plus a season for several seasons in a row. Of course, there could be the aberration injury season where you, you know, you throw that one away if they lose their best players and they win 28 games or 32 games. But, you know, with the roster that they are putting together, 45 to 50 plus win seasons regularly over a period of time. And I said, that's a minimum of five years.

and the playoffs, and I'm talking about top four, top five seed in the east, regularly. And then to have a run or two where they go deep, you know, a finals appearance would be phenomenal, a championship even better, but, you know, making it to the Eastern Conference finals, you know, once or twice. Being truly considered in late May a contender of sorts. but yeah, that would be it. You know, and... Now, here's the other thing. Yeah.

Look, I didn't quarrel with what they've done because I recognize that nothing had worked, and that was the way these guys, the new management team wanted to build the team, and Ted was desperate for anything, so he had to go along with it. uh... and it was a big step for ted because he

he swore on a stack of bible years ago he'll never tank you know and then he did it three years in a row so i understand i understand that i just again i've repeated this you know they shouldn't have been so arrogant about it

sometimes i didn't feel that they think they should have recognized like the pain that they inherited before they got here okay and it's okay for the kitties now you know who to to embrace this but the people who have been around 30 40 years me they've checked out for good i don't know about i mean people forget the john wall era i mean i remember i'm talking about it on the broadcast mike terrico they were stunned that there were empty seats they're in the playoffs at the arena i remember that

The Indiana series the first year. And that's 10 years ago. It's more than that. You know? 2013, 24-time, yeah. Right. So look, and look what's happened since then. So, I mean, I just, you know,

losing, losing while the past to winning, you pay a hell of a price. Yeah, but like we've talked about this before. I think that, you know, every fan is different. Every fan's different in their ability to kind of understand what's going on. Not everybody understands. I listened to Michael Winger speak on something earlier today before we started to record. I don't even know where it was from.

It could have been Scott Abraham from Channel 7, but I'm not entirely sure. But he talked about how he basically kind of apologized to the fans for the last three years. Yes, I have that in my column. I have that my call, and I give them credit for doing that. Yeah, but he assumes that everybody understood. I'm looking through your column right now so I can read the quote. Ultimately, it's our fans that have endured the most. To me, this number one pick is for them.

It's a reward for hanging in there with us. It's a reward for continuing to support us, despite sometimes really bad basketball. Yeah. It's the next line, though. They knew and they supported a multi-year tear down and a multi-year reinvention of the franchise. I think it's a moment to celebrate them. I mean, I think that's a really smart comment.

Yes. Yes, it is. But let me just say, number one is this number one pick is not a reward for me. The reward comes when this franchise is an upper echelon franchise, for five, six, seven straight years. And I can enjoy, as a lifelong fan of this team, this time of year, with a significant hometown rooting interest. And I haven't been able to...

That's the reward, not the number one pick. But you do recognize, at least on social media, you know, the people who speak out about the wizards, most of them considered as a reward. award. Look, not only that, and this is why I brought it up yesterday and again with you, many of them who supported this process believe it's the end. They believe they've arrived.

They did it. We did it. We got the number one pick. What? What? No. It's 196 losses in three years. we'll know whether or not all of this worked in three years, four years, five years.

You know, by the way, part of the definition for me is I don't want to wait any more than one more year before this team is participating in a Best of Seven series in the springtime. Now, I think there's a chance it could happen next year if Anthony Davis stays healthy. That's a big if. But it better start no later. He's on the team. I think he's going to be on the team. It better start no later than 2027, 2028.

But back to Winger's quote, when he said they knew and they supported, I don't think everybody knew that. You know, it takes some level of attention, A, and then, you know, the following of the league and what's happened with, you know, previous teams, Detroit and, you know, OKC and, you know, Philadelphia and the teams that have done it before to really understand. There are a lot of people, trust me, a lot of Wizards, Bullets fans

that just thought they sucked the last three years and were terrible. Not everybody understood what they were doing, but if you did understand what they were doing, don't act like this is the end. This is the beginning. You know, I've made this analogy before just because I kind of went through it

many, many years ago in a company that I was involved in. But when you see these companies, especially young companies, startup companies, early stage companies that maybe haven't turned a profit yet or are barely profitable and they go public, Tommy. And there's massive celebration. Like, we did it. We got, we arrived. And look, many times for the founders of that company and the early investors, that is it.

That's the culmination. But for the company, it's just the beginning. We just got an infusion of, you know, $100 million or $500 million through this IPO. Now we're under scrutiny. Now we've got the SEC coming in every quarter to audit to check on what we're doing. We now report to public investors. This is the beginning. I remember because I was a part of one of those days.

which was very celebratory, but I realized very quickly that, wait a minute, it's even more work now. Now this is where the grind begins. Now we actually have to prove it, you know, and it's analogous to this,

where if fans believe that getting the number one pick is the culmination and it's not the beginning, I can't help you. Like this is just the end. When they make this selection, assuming they do, they may trade it, who knows. This is the culmination of phase one. Phase two begins next year with trying to win games,

trying to identify the young players on their team that they can win a lot of games with in the years that follow next year. Look, there's still, you know, SGA was not drafted by OKC, but the process led them to be able to trade for Shea Gilgis Alexander. Maybe that's where the MVP comes from. It comes from, you know, maybe it comes in this draft where they decide they're going to trade number one

to a team that has a young ascending player that they believe can be a top five player. You know, there's been some talk about Ace Bailey in Utah. Utah apparently the owner has a relationship with Jay DeBanza and is a big fan of DeBonza. And Utah last year selected Ace Bailey. I was not a big fan of Ace Bailey. Now, he played pretty well as a rookie player this year.

I just didn't like, I watched him a lot at Rutgers in his one year at Rutgers. And what I saw was a guy that literally bailed on games. He bailed on a game in College Park. Literally took himself out because Derek Queen was dominating him. And he tapped out. He just tapped out. He had a very good rookie year. He's super young.

I don't even know if he's 19 yet. He might be 19. People did love him last year. He was the fifth pick in the first round. And, you know, many people thought that the wizards actually may have preferred Bailey. They ended up taking Trey Johnson because Bailey went the pick before. And so, who knows? Maybe they trade number one overall for Ace Bailey and number two, and they select the player that they really want.

If it's not A.J. DeBons, they take Darren Peterson or they take Caleb Wilson or somebody like that. You know, it's possible that, you know, that could be a part of this year or next year or the year after where they acquire their superstar player because they've put themselves into position. to acquire a player like that, which they never were in position to do before. Anyway, I don't know. I think we could go on and on about this. I just, my overall is they've done a really, really nice job here in phase one, giving themselves a chance. They haven't bungled the process.

But now we'll find out if they were really good at evaluating players, if they're really good at developing players, if they're really good at coaching players, you know, because Brian Keefe will have something to do with the next, you know, year or two at least. He's going to be the coach next year.

And I... Brian Keith, of the last two years, the worst coach in the NBA in the athletic. I know that, but we know, I mean, they were trying to lose.

I mean, you know, it's hard to, it's kind of, I, look, I'm not going to dispute people who are in the league from their feelings.

But as a fan, I don't know how you would evaluate Brian Keefe as a head coach. He hasn't been asked to go try to win games. Yeah, I know. You're right. But I look at their roster. I think Saar has real upside, like All-Star upside. Yes, I do. I think he does.

I think Keishon George has that. I think that's the only guarantee. Not guaranteed. I think that's the closest thing they have to an overall. all-star. I don't know. I really was impressed with Will Riley, but I want to see the, and I love Trey Johnson coming out, and he didn't disappoint in his rookie year, but I want to see these guys next year playing games that matter. I mean, you already see the difference between the regular season and the postseason. Nothing reveals these teams, these coaches, the players on these

teams more than the playoffs do. It's just totally different from the regular season. And comparing the regular season to a team that isn't trying to win in the regular season is really difficult to do. So I want to see Bub Carrington and Trey Johnson and Cam Whitmore and Will Riley and Alex Sar and Kishan George and Balal Kula Bali in games that they play in where the opponent actually comes in and takes them seriously. And that's what I think will begin next year. And I hope it begins with Anthony Davis and Tray Young on the floor together healthy. Because I think the one thing that you can't do is you just can't kind of build it with all young players and hope that in four years or five years it all comes together. You've got to mix in some really good veteran players in the process.

Speaking of the NBA, just real quickly, Donovan Mitchell, last night for the Cleveland Cavaliers, scored 39 points in the second half of their playoff win over Detroit. It tied Sleepy Floyd's record, Tommy, for points in a second half in a playoff game. He had four points at halftime. Yeah. He had four points at halftime, and the calves were down four, and he erupted for 39 in the second half.

He actually had a chance to break the record, and he missed a free throw late. but he he's always been able to he's always been able to score in bunches I'm really rooting for Detroit to win that series I just don't want to see James Harden anymore but that was an unbelievable performance and we'll get to LeBron who

I guess it's conceivable that he played his last game last night I don't think that that's true but a lot of people are talking about it today because the Lakers were eliminated last night All right, let's talk some football next. Tommy wants to go back to some news that broke shortly after we did the show on Thursday. We'll get to that and more after these words from a few of our sponsors. I'll be honest. At first, I was skeptical about ordering plants online, like, is this thing actually going to show up alive?

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So you, when we did the show on Thursday, it was later on Thursday afternoon or Thursday evening that the news came that Taylor Heineke retired. And you wanted to say something about that because you haven't had a chance to do it on this podcast. Well, I did catch some of your show when this was going on. and I enjoy the I enjoy the deification of Taylor Heineke you know Well, I don't I don't deify him

but a lot of fans do, right? Yes. Yeah. No, I enjoy, I kind of enjoy that and get a kick out of it because it just shows in a way how damaged this fan base is, although in today's age, fans are very quick to embrace, you know, the thing in front of them as the greatest thing they've ever seen.

So there's some of that at player, too. Now, Teore Heineke was the greatest player, maybe the most popular player in the history of the Washington football team. Yeah. Yeah, those two seasons, yes. Those two seasons. Now, that's not something to just fluff off, you know, because, his presence meant a lot. I mean, those years,

oh, we thought they were worse. We didn't know more worse was coming. But, I mean, how pathetic it must have felt to have been a Washington football fan. I mean, now you've lost your name. You know, now you've got a name that has no identity. I mean, and here's, here comes this guy out of nowhere, diving into the end zone,

almost delivering a playoff appearance in an empty stadium against Tom Brady that no one expected. And then in a few games following that, you know, playing the hero, bringing the team back to win in exciting victories. He meant a lot at a time where there was a, there was a need for somebody like him. But things were really low when Taylor Heineke was a hero. There were definitely some tweets and follow-up on my conversation about Taylor Heineke,

and I just found the one that I did see, and I haven't read yet, but I'll read now off of what you just said, comes from PJB and G. your sarcasm seeped through your fake kind words about Taylor Heineke. Disgusting! Exclamation point. Oh, my God. Stop it. Oh, the sensitivity around him and Sam Howl after that.

I know. I mean, my God, stop already. There are some of us of a certain age. that actually remember this franchise when it was a legitimate upper-tier franchise. And so all of these years during the Snyder years, whenever there was even the faintest of light at the end of the tunnel and people would get beside themselves with excitement, it was like, okay, just calm down.

Like, you know, we went to four Super Bowls in 10 years and won three. Heineke was a special kind. a hero. There were no expectations. Oh, it's a great story. I had a caller calling and say, this is a Disney movie. I'm like, no, it's not. Taylor He's not a Disney movie.

They didn't win the Super Bowl. I mean, it's not like it came off. Kurt Warner was a Disney movie. Kurt Warner is a Disney movie. Yes. I mean, his story, even for people around the league outside of this market, it's a cute story. You know?

Oh, boy. That's diminishing. That's not. Well, I say, I say cute because he's inspired. Because he literally is a little guy who went out there and absolutely competed his ass off and got much more out of less. Okay, that's gritty. It's inspiring. It's gritty.

It's gritty. He was gritty. I always said he's a gamer. He's a gamer. For everybody who wants to talk about how popular a player he was, if you haven't been at the stadium recently, or since he was there, when you could go to games, and even after that, here's what you're not going to see.

There are Heineke jerseys in the stands. They're just not going to be there. No. You know, there's still lots of RG3. uh, uh, uh, uh,

there's all kinds of other players' names from the past in the stands. But you're not going to see many, if any, Taylor Heineke, jerseys. I, I,

and I'm being serious, and I said this the other day, and I said it throughout his time when he was here and playing. I love stories like Taylor Heineckee. I usually really love stories like Taylor Heineke. I usually really love stories like, Taylor Heineke, what made it less fulfilling or less entertaining or less, you know,

had me embracing it less than I would have, was the unrealistic delusional reaction to him and what a lot of our fans, not the majority, I would say 25% of our fans during that time, legitimately thought he was the answer. What I love about Taylor Heineke and I love watching overachievers, you know, Kirk Cousins, one of the reasons I love him is he got everything out of what he has and more. And he had a lot more than Taylor Heineke. All due respect to Taylor Heineke, you know, in terms of talent. But I love the stories where you've got a guy that literally shouldn't be out there based on his talent, on his size, but is fearless, gritty, scrappy, a gamer? That was my description of him during all those years. Not to mention, the dude is apparently off the charts smart. He's

going to have a great post career, I would imagine. I mean, he was taking a derivatives course, living on his sister's couch when Scott Turner called him. So it was a really good story. He way out kicked his coverage in some of those games. But what made it difficult, I think for some of us, is that, you know, the reaction from some fans was like, we don't have to draft a quarterback. We don't need to look for a quarterback. We've got our quarterback.

We just need to build around this guy. No, that we can't do that. Like, that is not a possibility. And then, by the way, they did the same thing with Sam Howell for a season. You know, they, how many calls did I take before 2024? I don't want to take a quarterback at number two. Oh, the Sam Howell was worse because the coach came out and basically annoyed it him.

I know, but once we saw how average, you know, less than average he was. I know, but that was far worse than Taylor Heineke. I know, but after we saw a season of Sam Howell, there were fans that literally said, no, let's build around Sam Hal, get a good offensive coordinator, you know, with them, and he'll be fine. I'm like, you guys don't watch the rest of the league. Like, you got to watch football other than your team every Sunday. Because Taylor Heineke and Sam Howe are not starting NFL quarterbacks. They're just not.

You don't build around players like that. But there is no doubt there were moments during those. seasons. Like I got, I'm looking, I was looking when I found PJ, B, and G's tweet, I was looking for another one and I'll just paraphrase that I couldn't find it, but somebody just, you know, totally suggested that I diminished him by saying 2022 was a defensive lead season. You know, we're talking about these seasons, some of these people, as if these seasons were like Super Bowl runs. They didn't even make the playoffs in 2022, but they were in position in December to make the playoffs at 7 and 5.

And I'm sorry, but they were the number 7 DVOA defense in 2022. That's the best defense we've seen pretty much in the last decade plus for this franchise. John Allen, Duran Payne, they were having seasons. I mean, we had a good defensive football team that year. And the offense made, you know, had moments. Taylor had some moments in that season, but they wouldn't have been seven and five without their defense that particular year. You know, so, yeah, I don't know. And here's the thing that you should be happy for Taylor Heineke.

He made $19 million. Did he really good for him? His NFL career. Good for him. Yes. What did the Falcons pay him when they signed him as a free agent? Two years, $14 million. Yeah, but did he stay there two years and collect all of that or not?

Hang on a second. I don't think he did. I don't think he did. Yeah. But whatever. It's $10 million, probably, that he made, right? Oh, I think more than that. Okay.

Yeah. I mean, the final contract he signed was $6.2 million. And so he earned that And with the chargers It says here, this is AI It says that he A career earnings approximately $19.3 million

That's outstanding. Off the couch. Now some of that he made before But not a lot of it You know, when he was in the league before he went You know back to school. Right. Incredible.

Incredible. And really his only moment, the only moments he had were in Washington, because I don't, correct me if I'm wrong, I don't have his pro football reference up in front of me, but I don't think he did much in Atlanta or where else did he play the Chargers, right? I don't think he did much. And in fact, I think he played poorly in those two places when he got the opportunity. In Atlanta, I know he got the opportunity, you know, at least once or twice. But yeah, I mean, that playoff game that he played was a legitimate great game. There's no place for Taylor Heineke in the Ring of Honor, right? No, no.

You're kidding, right? Yes. Okay. Because there are some that thought, we'll think you were serious, and that me brushing it off so quickly was rude. I mean, come on. Do you know how many games he started here? 24 games.

A season and not even a half. I guess actually they were 16 game seasons. So a season and a half exactly. 24 games. And it looks like his record was 12 and 12 as a starter here. Yeah. and then he had the playoff game in which really that was that was probably the game of his you know his first game his first start was probably his best start but he had some good games he had some really good games where he you know did enough for them to win and sometimes they did or did enough for them to win and they didn't win and then there were other games where he cost them dearly you know chances to win games um Yeah. Okay. How old is Taylor Heineke?

I don't know. He is, he just turned 33 years old. So clearly he retired because there was no market for him right now. Right. You know, there was no market for him. I say clearly, I guess he could have told teams, I'm not interested, but then he would have retired right after the season rather than retire after this wave, you know, these multiple waves of free. agency where I'm sure he was hoping to maybe get one more big contract with somebody. I'm actually surprised, Tommy, that his backup quarterback career, which I always felt that that's what he was, didn't last even longer.

I'm surprised nobody picked him up. He's great in the locker room. He's smart. And the one benefit of having Taylor Heineke on your roster as a backup quarterback is he can come in in the middle of a game and he is unafraid. He is not going to, there's not going to be a warm up period necessary for him. He's ready to go.

But I guess there was no market for him. Sam Hal is somewhere. Is Sam Hal in Dallas? Do I have that right? He's bounced around. He's bounced around. Is he the bad? Minnesota, Philadelphia. He's in Dallas. Now, he was in Seattle last year. He's in, no, he wouldn't, he, he, he,

Was he out of the league last year, Sam, Al? No, he was somebody. I thought he was in Minnesota. I thought he was in Minnesota, too. Or Philadelphia. He was Philadelphia. You're right, Philadelphia. So after leaving here, Seattle and 24, he, oh my God, that was the game.

He had a game where he came in, and it was so bad. Didn't play in Philadelphia, and now he did sign a deal with Dallas. He's in Dallas. I'm trying to think of who the Cowboys have as the backup. I'm assuming he's not the backup, but the third stringer. Oh, yeah, they got the Tennessee kid, Joe Milton, who can basically throw the ball 90 yards. So Sam Howell's the third stringer there.

But he's making some, I'll tell you what, wouldn't be bad to bounce around the league Chase Daniels style for about 15 years, collecting backup quarterback checks and third string. quarterback checks. You know, Andrew Brandt, you know, who I have on the show every once in a while, you know, former VP of

football ops in Green Bay all those years. Now he's at Villanova. He's a teacher. He heads up their part of their business school. And I think he's put Chase Daniel in the all-time NFL Business Hall of Fame. 43 million dollars,

Chase Daniel earned over his career. And how many starts? like less than five, I'm pretty sure. Five games. Five starts? Yes. Over 14 years. Five games. 14 years, 43 million. He started five games.

You know what? Chase Daniel was doing a podcast with Diana. And by the way, he's good. I've tried to get him on the show. In fact, I asked Diana to help me to try to get him on the show. and reached out to him a couple of times and he just never got back. You know, I thought he'd be a great guest. But he's been doing, or was doing,

a podcast with Diana. I don't know what the name of. That's not happening anymore. It was called Scoop City. No, it's not happening anymore. No, it's not. All right. We got more show.

We'll get to it. Did you have anything else on Taylor Heineke? Or is that a wrap? I don't want to disrespect him. I wouldn't mind seeing the team welcome him back for a game and him being on the field to wave high to people at halftime. Okay, sure. Just like Babe Laufenberg, I'm sure we did it with Babe Laufenberg.

And, you know, it'd be nice to have Colt McCoy back to do the same kind of thing. Well, yes, it would. For you. Why did you, with Babe Lofenberg say, no, no, no, no. How many regular season starts did he have? In Washington, I don't think any. But in Dallas, he had several. I know, but he was a preseason hero.

Yeah, that's true. But he was on the roster for several years because it was several pre-seasons. You know, it was at least two pre-seasons. I'm looking it up right now to see how many years he played in Washington, and how many years he, you know, lit up the preseason for our team. It doesn't happen on pro football reference. I guess he was drafted in the sixth round of the 83 draft in Washington, 83, 84, 85 in Washington,

and then went to New Orleans in 86, out of the league, and then to Dallas in 89, where he started a game. He started six games. in San Diego, excuse me, in 88. But he found a home in Dallas. He became part of the media there, right? He's been, what do you mean? He's been calling games.

He's been calling games on radio for, you know, forever now. Yeah. He had a terrible... I think that's what I meant by media. Yeah, he had a terrible tragedy. He lost, I think he lost his son not that long ago. And it was very, very sad. Yeah, he's been...

You know, he's been calling games with what's his face, uh, uh, Brad sham for a long time now as the, uh, as the number one analyst on Cowboys Radio. Here it is. 2019 Lothenberg's son Luke died, 21 years old of lymphoma. Terrible. Sad. Nice guy. I've had him on the show several times over the years. Um, and just a really, really nice guy.

Yeah, it was here for 83 and 84 and parts of 85. So basically three seasons. Let's welcome Taylor Heineke back for a game, for sure. And I love the way he signed that note, Go Skins, the note that he left last week. Yes. Excited for this next chapter of my life and always, go Skins. More show after these words from a few of our sponsors. This time of the year always makes me rethink what's in my closet.

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Go to quince.com slash Sheen for free shipping and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada, too. Go to Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash Sheean for free shipping and 365-day returns. Quince.com slash Sheen. All right, Tommy, tell us about Shelly's. Well, Shelly's backroom at 1331 F Street Northwest. the district is always the place to go. I mean, whether you want to just relax, or you want to celebrate, or you want to get together with friends and family, or meet new friends along the way.

It is going to be the place to be Monday night, May the 18th, starting at 6 o'clock, because Shelly's is going to host the D.C. Graves Cigars and Curveballs Fundraiser. I think this is the 14th year that will be doing it at Shelly's, and it's always a great time. People who, here's what I hear from people who come for the first time. They tell me after, I can't believe what a great time I had. And it's nothing special. No, it's a great camaraderie. It's a great time.

There's always a very good vibe for your event, always. Yes. Yes, that's what it is. You know, it's not something we sell. We can't bottle it, although for three, for a donation of 100, dollars where you can buy tickets you go to dcgrays.com you get three cigars and you get some great appetizers from the app menu at shelley's back room and you get a chance to bid on things like sitting in on an episode of the kevin t's show podcast with me and with me and kevin

or courtney and john are courtney and john going to bid on it again and and be in here with us because they're a lovely couple. I don't know. Yes, they are. Yes, they are. A James Wood autographed bat. You know, a guy who's probably going to be a, I mean, a guy who's already a home run king in the National League

and looks like a legitimate All-Star and many other items that will be available. You can find out more by going to D.C.grays.com. You can learn more about Shelly's by going to Shelly's back. Crum.com. Warren Sharp put out his NFL 2026 strength of schedule data last week. I think I may have mentioned it. And it's not based on last year's records.

That's pretty dumb. It's always based on the projected win totals for the upcoming season. And, you know, Washington finished third, but it doesn't matter that much. Washington has the eighth toughest schedule based on projected win totals in the NFL. But he put out this tweet that I wanted to read because I thought it was perfect. Because again, like, you know, strength of schedule in advance of a season,

it's really dumb to do it based on last year's, you know, final record, you know, overall final records. And the way he does it is smarter, but then he tweeted out the other day. I guess he got a lot of pushback to what he put out. He said, look, using last year's records to calculate this year's strength of schedule is great. Assuming you don't care about, number one, free agency and all the players on new teams. Number two, the 10 new head coaches this year. Number three, the 38 new offensive coordinators and defensive coordinators this year. Number four, the NFL draft.

Number five, injuries last year that impacted teams. Number six, close game variants last year. Number seven, fumble luck, field goal luck, and other luck factors. Yeah. Trying to predict in advance of an NFL season, especially the team. without an elite quarterback is really tough to do. It's the hardest thing to do in any of the four major professional sports leagues because it's such a fine line between, you know, being good enough to win 10

and being good and being bad enough to lose 10. And much of it you can't predict year to year. I wanted to share something with you about LeBron James that I read this morning from this guy Tom Haberstro, he's a columnist with Yahoo Sports, who wrote a column titled, Why LeBron James' stint with the Lakers, with the Lakers, is Hall of Fame worthy on its own. So LeBron last night, 24 and 12 in game four, a loss to Oklahoma City, 115 to 110.

They lose the series in four straight. Oklahoma City is an absolute juggernaut at the day. this point, although a series against San Antonio would be very entertaining in the Western Conference Finals. LeBron averaged in the postseason 23-7-and-7. Didn't have Luca Donchich, didn't have Austin Reeves for a chunk of it, and didn't have those guys down the stretch in the regular season where their presence could have changed their seating, which would have meant avoiding Oklahoma City.

They beat Houston in the first round four games to two. They were a big underdog going into that series. So I guess, you know, this is the point in which, you know, we've done it the last several years, where it's possible that LeBron James played his last game. Now, let me just say, Tommy, and I'll let you weigh in. I don't think there's any chance that LeBron played his last game last night. LeBron is too drama-filled. He's too full of himself to not. not have a pomp and circumstance farewell tour through every single city in the NBA next year

or the year after or whenever he decides, that's it. He's not going out, you know, after a loss lightened that and saying, all right, that's a wrap. I don't see that with him. Do you? No, you're right. I think he's a guy who would want all the accolades because, and quite frankly, he's right in the way that among people, I mean, I know there's a whole segment of the population that thinks he's the greatest player to ever play the game. But he's not a mover. You know what I mean? He does not, I mean, people don't walk away from watching LeBron James and play, wow. What a privilege to see that guy play.

And he's very good. He's, what he's doing now is remarkable at his. age. Are you saying now? Are you saying for his career? I think for his career. I don't think he's ever truly been an emotionally exciting player. Emotionally exciting player. For fans.

I can, I know what you're getting at and I don't disagree with it, but I think it's a bit harsh that there's nothing emotionally exciting about watching LeBron. LeBron's been one of the true athletic physical freaks that was outrageous from an IQ standpoint basketball IQ. And I'll agree with you that high basketball IQ looks better on Magic Johnson than it does on LeBron James because of the way Magic Magic played with an incredible flair. So I know what you're saying. Okay, continue. Yeah. Continue. Okay. So again, and maybe it's because we've seen him too long.

I mean, what was it? This is 20th season? 23rd season, he just finished. 23rd season. You know, and I don't want him to retire. I respect the way he carries himself as a high-profile athlete. I respect what he's done as a business figure. And he is one of the great players in the history of the game.

but save Cleveland I don't think he moved anybody All right so the first part of this is you don't think he played his last game either No Me neither I mean by the way He has earned the right

Like this wouldn't be ceremonial He averaged 23-7 and 7 in the post season Yeah This is not a charity case No he's still one of the better players in the league. Now, he's not a number one on a championship contending team. You might even be able to argue he's not even a number two on a championship contending team, although I think you could argue that depending on the team, but he's still a top three player on a championship contending team.

That's saying a lot. So I wanted to get to this thing that I read this morning about LeBron written by this guy from Yahoo Sports, about how. his Laker career, stand-alone, is Hall of Fame worthy. I thought you would find this interesting. So LeBron, believe it or not, just finished his eighth season as a Laker. Eighth. I mean, that is flown by. It doesn't seem like that long ago that he was facing the Warriors in the title,

you know, in the championship series with Cleveland all of those years in a row. eight years in L.A. ages 34 through 41, eight All-Star appearances, eight NBA, you know, all-NBA teams, twice first-team all-NBA, twice second-team all-NBA,

and at this point, three NBA all-N-B-3 teams, and by the way, he might be on the All-NBA third team again this year, we'll see. a championship to Western Conference finals appearances. And he makes the case with some of the advanced numbers where he's finished in terms of he led the league in assists in 2020. He's been in the top 10 in assists three times with the Lakers.

He's been in the top 10 in scoring a couple of times. his career just as a Laker Tommy would put him in the Hall of Fame. It's a Hall of Fame resume that far exceeds several others that are already in the Hall of Fame. And per the basketball reference sort of Hall of Fame monitor, he'd be a lock based on just the eight years in L.A. I never thought of his career that way. It was the first time I thought about it. And I'm like, wow, that is pretty damn impressive. You say what?

This is Exhibit 1 for what I said before. He basically was amazing with the Lakers, and we barely noticed it. Well, I noticed it. The title came in the bubble in COVID. This wasn't Portland Trailblazers. This wasn't the Atlanta Hawks. This is the highest profile team, you could argue, in the league. Okay?

And he's on ESPN all the time. And an ESPN talking head can't go 10 seconds without saying LeBron James' name. Right. But yet, I didn't realize any of this. Now, I can understand I'm a disenfranchised NBA fan. But I also pay attention to the league. okay and what you said is it's amazing and maybe the most amazing part is that we didn't really notice how remarkable he was I think part of it is that the title that they won came in the

bubble during oh yeah that doesn't help season yeah and it's sort of a forgotten title for a lot of you know that that whole year is forgotten in many ways um by the way Anthony Davis was his teammate that year. Yes. But when I looked at what he's produced over eight years in LA, at

his age, remember a couple of years ago I said this to you, I said, are you watching LeBron James at all? He looks bigger, stronger, faster, more athletic. He's shooting the ball better than he's ever shot it in his career. He actually looks like he's getting better.

And you were suspicious, of course, and wondered whether or not there were performance enhancers involved. I don't think that that's true. But this guy then went on to essentially say, look, LeBron James in his four different situations, Cleveland to start, those first seven years in Cleveland are a standalone Hall of Fame career. He had two MVP's in Cleveland, even though they didn't win the title. They lost in the finals, remember, to San Antonio, in his career. The four years he spent in Miami, they won two titles. He won two more

MVPs. That is a Hall of Fame career. In Cleveland, the four years when he went back, they won a championship. He was all-NBA first team three times, all-NBA third team once, finished second, third, and fourth in the MVP balloting. That is likely a Hall of Fame standalone career. And then at an age when everybody starts to kind of deteriorate, you know, his eight years in L.A. is the longest run he's had anywhere, and it's standalone Hall of Fame worthy. I mean, it leads to the question of, would you consider LeBron James to be the goat? I would not. I still think it's Michael, then Magic, but I think LeBron's next after those two, but those two didn't do what he did in all of those different

places. Of course, going to different places back then wasn't the same. But, I mean, you can make the case with numbers, accolades, time, that he's the greatest of all time. You can. I know, but he's certainly not the greatest of all. all time in my book. Not in mine either. And the fact that he, you know, he doesn't generate a lot of passion, except for the kitties. The kitties. You mean the cute little kitties?

Yeah, the kids, the kids, all the kids love them. They love their LeBron, baby. They do. But here's the fact that he's known just as much for flopping as he is for clutch performances. Look, I've just never been a LeBron guy. I've never been a LeBron guy. It doesn't mean that I don't respect the hell out of him, and I haven't appreciated his game.

But for me, I'll still never get over the first third of his career. When he did things in big spots that Michael Jordan, Larry Bird, and Kobe Bryant, it wasn't even possible with the three of them. He literally hid from the basketball in the finals against Dallas, the year Dirk beat Miami, the first year Miami was in. He didn't want to have anything to do with the basketball, and his last series in Cleveland when they faced Boston. He was gun-shy, he was afraid in that first third of his career in the biggest moments.

There are examples. You can pull them, and I can pull them too, hit that shot to beat Orlando in game two. The year, Orlando, by the way, ultimately beat them and went on to the NBA finals and lost to the Lakers. But there are the early run that he had against the Pistons in the Eastern Conference finals when he scored 25 of the team's last 27 points to put him into the NBA finals. But I'm telling you, there was that three or four year stretch before. he had that game six in Boston when he was with the Miami Heat and year two, when people were

really like, oh my God, is he going to go out to the Celtics? Because wasn't he the guy that just two years told us not one, not two, not three, not four, not five? By the way, that's why he's not leaving after no pomp and circumstance.

He's the creator of the decision. It was, I mean, he needs that to go out. He needs the attention. But he just was never the killer that Michael was, never the killer the bird was, never the killer that Kobe was, never. He's never been that. And even though he's the all-time leading NBA score, that is more about the 23 years, because his comp always was magic more than it was Michael Jordan. Because of his ability to pass. Yeah, he was a phenomenal passer.

and a phenomenal facilitator as much as he was a great score. I mean, yeah, I, there were years, like the LeBron year in Cleveland when they lost love and they lost Kyrie and he took them to the finals

with Timothy Moskhov and Amon Shumpert and Matt Delavadova and J.R. Smith. I'm like, that performance, that particular year, that first Cleveland year, was so absurd. You know, he averaged... Wasn't Taylor Heineke on that team? I think cute little Taylor Heineke was on that team.

Yes. I think he was. He could have been. He could have been. By the way, he would have been the toughest badass, you know, MF or on the team. But there were moments in Cleveland the first go-round and the second go-round where it's like, are you kidding me? This dude is just insanely good.

But, yeah, he's not the goat. For me, it's Michael 1, Magic 2. I'm never going to put LeBron ahead of magic. Sorry. For me, it's Wilts 1, Russell 2, Michael 3. Got it. I mentioned this this morning. You said that LeBron's for the kitties.

do think that there is definitely a generational thing with LeBron, no doubt. That younger, like my son, Corbyn, loves LeBron and just laughs when we have these conversations about Michael and Magic and others. But it reminds me of that movie, Bad Teacher with Cameron Diaz and Jason Siegel. There's this really good line where Jason Segal, a PE teacher at a middle school is in the cafeteria, and he's arguing with one of the kids about Michael versus. is LeBron, and the kid says, are you going to hit me with six championships?

Six championships? Is that, is that all you got? And Jason Seagull said, that's all I need. Mike had six titles. And at that point when they made the movie, I bet LeBron only had like two. And now he's got four. And I do wonder, like, we both agree he's going to play again. I wonder if it'll be in L.A.

or I wonder if LeBron will say, I can't win with Luca, you know, because Luca needs the ball too much. I don't think ISO teams that revolve around a guy like, a guy like Luca will ever win four out of seven, four straight series. Could he go join the Knicks?

Could he do his, you know, farewell tour, like with Denver and Yokic? That would be fascinating. There are, there's some opportunities, you know, where he could jump on something as the second or third best player and win one more, he could. I'll tell you, you know where he would actually look really good?

Where? Here. I knew you were going to say that. I'm actually serious. Like, for next year? Like, if they weren't in the stage that they're in right now and they were legitimately trying to, like, contend for something. big because it's the east. Okay, it's not the West. You know, a healthy Anthony Davis, Trey Young, LeBron James,

these young pieces, maybe add A.J. DeBonsa to the mix. I'll tell you what, they could certainly be a 50-plus win team next year. LeBron James would laugh at your face. I know that. A healthy Anthony Davis. I understand that, but the last time he won a title, it was because of Anthony Davis. I know that.

Yeah. I mean, what did Anthony Davis? Had just an amazing finals series. I want to go back and look to see what he, when they beat the heat. Anthony Davis in the NBA finals in 2020, average 25, 10,

25 and 11, basically, and two block shots a game. In the Western Convin, conference finals when they beat Denver in five. He averaged 31.2, six rebounds, and a block shot. God, he was good in those playoffs, man. He was really, really good in that postseason. All right. Just one last thing on the show today. The Wizards actually spoke with A.J. DeBonsa today. More on that after these words from a few of our sponsors. segment of the show brought to you by MyBooky. MyBooky has its NBA draft first overall pick odds

available to wager on in the favorite, and he is a sizable favorite, A.J. DeBonsa, at minus 350, the favorite to go number one overall in the NBA draft next month. Now, that is not specific to the wizards picking A.J. DeBonsa. That is just the odds. That is just the odds that that A.J. DeBanza will be the first overall pick, whether the Wizards select number one or decide to trade the pick to say somebody like Utah. DeBanza is a heavy favorite to go number one at minus 350, followed by Darren Peterson at plus 390, and then Cameron Boozer at plus 950. So those are your top three, but A.J. DeBanza, a pretty sizable favorite right now to go number one overall. That's a bit of a surprise to me. I would have seen even money odds on

AJ DeBonsa with Darren Peterson at say plus 180 plus 200, something like that. But AJ DeBonsa minus 350. That means you have to wager $350 to win $100 or $35 to win $10. Go to mybooky.orgie.com. And when you get there, use my promo. code DC reload, DCR-E-L-O-A-D, and My Booky will give you a 50% cash bonus, whether you're a new customer or a returning customer. Whatever your deposit size is, take half of that amount and add it into your account. That's what My Booky will do. They'll add it into your account for you. So if you deposit $500, they'll add another $250 into your account, and your account balance will read $750.

You'll have that amount to wager with. MyBooky.com or mybooky.orgie.orgie.orgia promo code DC reload. Ben Standing just tweeted out a little while ago that GM Will Dawkins, Wizards GM

Will Dawkins, speaking on ESPN's NBA Combine coverage this afternoon, said that the Wizards interviewed A.J. DeBantza today, Dawkins said he's known DeBanza since he was 14 years old. He knew the family or has known the family as well since he was 14.

DeBonsa grew up in Boston, even though he went to BYU. And about DeBonsa, this is what Wizards GM Will Dawkins said. He said, quote, this guy has a charisma to him. He's got a confidence to him. He's been able to do it every level that he stepped at increases play. When you talk about basketball, he can score it, can defend. He's long, can make plays for others.

He's a high-level talent. We have the opportunity to. We'll take a look at him, get to know him a little bit more, a true talent at the top of the draft, closed quote. So some very, you know, favorable, kind, optimistic words about, AJ DeBanza. I mean, my first thought, Tommy is, you know, as Coach Thompson used to say, he's fattening frogs for snakes. Like, you know, there's no reason for him to talk about AJ DeBonsa this way. Now, he may talk about all the players this way, unless he feels like

Utah is interested in trading up a spot to select DeBonza. And he wants, you know, the rest of the league, including Utah to believe that DeBanza might be the guy for the Wizards at number one. That's the first thought that jumps into my mind. But, you know, he may say that about every player that they end up interviewing and get asked about. Yes. All right. You got anything else? I got nothing else for you today, boss.

You know, when we get together on Thursday, it'll be the day that the schedule comes out. Now, we'll record before the schedule comes out. because you're not going to want to record at 9 o'clock at night post schedule, although we can talk about that, but I would likely just do a schedule recap on my own on Friday show. We'll see how it goes. Everything's in play the rest of the week. Really?

I'm not going to plan the rest of your week, because I'm sure you have, what do you have Thursday night? Big plans? Cigar Bar? No. Shelly's? I have no big plans. Okay.

Yeah. All right. I'll talk to you Thursday. Back tomorrow, everybody. Okay, boss.