The Kevin Sheehan Show - Wizards' Draft + Keim On Commanders

Episode Date: June 23, 2023

Kevin opened with a recap of the Wizards' busy week including last night's draft. Then it was John Keim and Kevin talking about John's career in DC before getting to everything Commanders.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it, but you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Here's Kevin. With the seventh pick in the 2003 NBA draft, the Indiana Pacers select Bilal Kula Bali from Corbewa, France. With the eighth pick in the 2003 NBA draft, the Washington Wizard select Jarus Walker from the University of Houston. Jaris Walker, man.

I was excited about that pick last night. Wizards picking Jaris Walker from Houston at number eight overall. No, they didn't. They actually did not. They drafted Bilal Kulabali because they traded up one spot and selected Kulabali with the number seven selection, which was held by the Indiana Pacers. But they made a trade. You know, in the NFL draft, when we watched the draft show and the trades,

are made. You get Roger Goodell who will come to the podium and he'll say the Philadelphia Eagles have traded the number 12 pick in the first round of the Chicago Bears. And with that selection, the Chicago Bears select.

Boom. That's the way it's done. Real-time announcement of trades. I don't know why the NBA continues to get this so wrong and make it so confusing for everybody. If you are watching this draft without sound, if you are watching this draft in a bar, if you go to

ESPN.com right now, it still doesn't reflect the players drafted by the correct teams. It's crazy. It makes no sense at all. John Kime is coming up on the show. I recorded with John earlier today. And we spent roughly an hour together getting into a lot of things that we didn't anticipate getting into, including John Kimes' career. You know, where John's from, how he got here, who we worked for when he got to D.C. His favorite Washington Redskins slash football team slash commanders season that he covered, we both agreed on the season that was the most exciting to cover. And we talked about that season for a while. And then we got into a lot of, we talked about the name for a bit. And then we got into a lot of stuff involving the actual team this year and what's going on. So John Kime coming up shortly. The show today presented by MyBooky, use my promo code at mybooky.com or mybooky.ag for a chance at a first deposit bonus of up to a thousand. Just use my promo code, Kevin D.C., to claim your bonus.

The wizard's over-under number, by the way, on wins, is eight and a half at my bookie. No, I'm kidding. But I would bet you it's not going to be much higher than 24 or 25 for next season. But they won't post the over-unders on NBA seasons until we get closer to the season because we haven't even had free agency. That starts a week from tomorrow, I believe. But anyway, mybooky.com, mybooky.ag. Kevin, D.C. is the promo code you need to use. There is some breaking news as we are recording the podcast.

It came out a little while ago. Mark Maskey from the Washington Post, along with Nikki Javala, reporting that the owners have scheduled a special meeting for July 20th. So July 20th will be the date that they vote. Not August 8th, remember, I think it was Mark and Nikki, who last week reported that there were two dates that owners were asked to set aside. But they're now, they've now nailed it down to July 8th is going, July 20th, excuse me, July 20th, is going to be the date for expected ratification.

So July 20th, 2023 will be a day of celebration. I feel like we've already celebrated a few times, but that will be the official date that the owners vote and ratify Josh Harris and his group as the new owners of the team. There's a quote in here, by the way, in their story. First of all, the eight-owner finance committee is ready to move this. to a vote on July 20th. They seem to be comfortable. There's a quote that says everything's on track. The team in the league and the Harris group all want to get it done. I don't see any real problems there. There's every reason to believe it should get done by then. The Finance Committee continues to

view Harris's deal favorably according to a person on the condition of anonymity. And then there's another quote that I thought was interesting because I've talked a lot about how I don't know why they're waiting. Why are we waiting now? It's June 23rd. Why can't they vote this weekend via Zoom and let Harris take over next week and get rolling on all the things that they need to get rolling on? There's a quote here that says, the sooner the Harris Group can get in control, the better a person with knowledge of the NFL's deliberations said. Everyone wants them to be able to get in there as soon as they can.

They want to get something done sooner rather than later. It just makes sense that it gets done. I would expect unanimous approval. Close quote. It's just that we're not going to get that unanimous approval, expected unanimous approval, until July 20th, a month from now, a little bit less than a month from now. But apparently the owners don't vote by Zoom.

They will vote in person in a special meeting on July 20th. It's too bad they can't do it another. way. But whatever. We're not going to look back, you know, five, ten years from now and say, oh, my God, they should have ratified it in, you know, in mid to late June. They lost so much. No, we won't say that. But they are losing time with respect to some important things that they'd like to start to address that they can't address until they take control of the team, like New Stadium, all of the talks. Apparently Magic Johnson got into a bit of trouble when he met with Maryland governor, Wes Moore.

So they aren't allowed to do anything right now. So that was the breaking news this morning. You may have seen the news yesterday from Sportico on the Cutter Investment Fund, Qatar Investment Fund. Novi Williams, who writes for Sportico, wrote it. He was on with me on radio this morning and, you know, described what the investment is. It's the first sovereign money investment into a major pro sports team. So Ted and monumental sports and entertainment are taking $200 million for a 5% stake, which means that their whole entity, which includes the four teams they own, the Wizards, the Caps, the Mystics and the Go-Go, and then, you know, the Capital One Arena and the

monumental sports network, which used to be NBC Sports Washington, and other real estate holdings and other technology plays, including, by the way, their e-sports teams, that that whole conglomerate, you know, has a $4 billion valuation on it. The $200 million comes in at a good time. because the Wizards are probably going to drop in revenue the next couple of years, but it also may be a part of, you know, the purchase of the nationals maybe down the road. All right. Let's get to some thoughts on the Wizards, not only the draft last night, but what turned out to be the announcement yesterday of all of the detail involving the three trades that they made.

week. And I'm going to start with that. I'm going to take you through kind of the flow chart, if you will, of everything that the Wizards got back for the players they traded, because we now have it, if not officially announced by the teams. We have it reported with great detail by people like Adrian Wojnerowski, Eddie SPN, and others. So let's start with Bradley Beal. The Bradley Beal trade to Phoenix, all right, which also included, included Jordan Goodwin and Isaiah Todd. They got back for Bradley Beal officially. Chris Paul, Landry Shamet,

six second round picks in 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, and 2030, and four pick swaps in 24, 26, 28, and 2030. Pick swaps, for those of you who don't know, are essentially options that the way Wizards have in the first round of the draft those years to swap selections with the Phoenix Suns. So if Phoenix has a higher pick, the Wizards would swap with them. If they don't have a higher pick, that option essentially expires. So these four pick swaps could amount to nothing. If Phoenix has a later first round pick in all four of those drafts, then the Wizards do. I would

certainly expect in 2024 and maybe even in 2026, the Wizards do have better positioned first-round picks than Phoenix. But who knows by the time you get to 2028 and 2030. And there's always the chance that you end up with a Phoenix team that's decimated by injuries and ends up winning 25 games instead of contending for the Western Conference finals. And the Wizards benefit from that. But those pick swaps can be worth something or they may not be. They are options for the Wizards.

So that's what came back for Bradley Beal. Jordan Goodwin and Isaiah Todd as well. Paul, Shamet, 6-6-rounders, and four-pick swaps. And then the three-way trade, which really was a trade between the Wizards and the Celtics, and then the Celtics and the Grizzlies, Christop's Porzingis brought back Tyos Jones, a second round pick last night, which was number 35 overall, Danilo Gallinari and Mike Muscala. That's what came back for Porzingis.

And then Chris Paul, who was acquired in the Beal trade with Phoenix, was traded yesterday, along with the wizard's number 57 pick, which was a second rounder last night. that was sent to Golden State for Jordan Poole, Ryan Rollins, a 2030 first round pick. There's your first round pick. It is top 20 protected, according to reports. And a 2027 second rounder. Now, the Wizards traded that number 57 pick along with Chris Paul, the Golden State,

for Patrick Baldwin, Jr. He was picked in the first round last year by Golden State at number 28 overall. So, in summary, Bradley Beale, Jordan Goodwin, Isaiah Todd, but really Bradley Beal, Christops Porzingis, and Chris Paul for Landry Shammett, Tyos Jones, Gallinari, Muscala, Jordan Poole, Ryan Rollins, Patrick Baldwin, Patrick Baldwin, 1 Jr., seven second round picks, one protected first round pick in 2030, and four pick swaps. Hopefully you followed along. That's the trades. Then last night in the draft, they were set to select at number 8. They traded with Indiana, moved up to number 7.

They gave up two second rounders. their second rounder in the year 2028, and one of these second rounders they acquired from Phoenix in 2028, and they selected Bilal Kulabali from France. More on him in a second. They also traded in the second round that number 35 pick that they had acquired as part of the Porzingis trade. They traded that to Chicago for multiple second round picks. Number 42 last night, they selected Tristan Vukovic, whether or not he'll come over or not, we don't know. And then at number 57, again, that was part of the Chris Paul deal. They traded that as part of that deal to Golden State for Patrick Baldwin, Jr.

So I'll get into the draft and the players here in a moment. Let me just talk about the trades. I love the philosophical approach. Like I said, yesterday and the day before, they are tearing this thing down to the stud. A caller said, actually, it's the foundation. They're replacing the foundation. I had Will Dawkins, the general manager on the radio show. You can listen to that at the team 980.com.

He referred to it as kind of a reshaping. He also talked about, you know, the challenges with the, you know, the first two trades and the contracts that they inherited on Beale and Porzingis. But anyway, I love what they're doing. I think they have to do it this way. They're not a franchise that, you know, a great player like Kevin Durant is going to team up with two other players and come to D.C. to immediately contend for an NBA championship.

It's just not the place that players want to do it for some reason. So they've got to do it the way in which Philadelphia has tried to do it. Oklahoma City's tried to do it. They've got to essentially go the route of a process of accumulating a lot of a lot of accumulating a lot of draft. a lot of young players with some talent. A lot of young players that are under contract for a while that could become good trade chips. They had to clear the decks from a salary cap standpoint so that they could have this blank canvas to build a roster over the next few years. I love what they're doing from that standpoint. I think it makes total sense. With respect to what they got back

for Beal, Porzingis, and Paul. I like it. I don't love it because I, like many of you, would have preferred to have seen multiple first round picks as part of all of this. But I understand why they didn't get multiple first round picks. They had Bradley Beale in total control over his future with a massive contract and a no trade clause. That's on Ted Leonis. That's not on this new group. That's on the old group. they had a one-year player option. Christopps Porzingis did. That gave him the leverage.

Now, what they got back for Chris Paul, I'm thrilled with because there was actually reporting the other day that they may work out a buyout. And I said on the show either yesterday or the day before, I don't want to buy out for Chris Paul. I don't care about doing the right thing for a legendary player. The Wizards don't owe him anything. It's now got to be about what's best for them, not what's best for their reputation in the way they deal with players. Both things are important, but winning and doing the right thing for your franchise is the most important thing.

And they got back, you know, Jordan Poole, we talked about it at the end of the podcast yesterday because that news broke. Look, Jordan Poole is probably other than the overall philosophical approach, the big story this week, is Jordan Poole. Jordan Poole is going to average, you know, 25 plus a game for this team next year. Now, maybe they're just going to team up to trade them, you know, at the deadline next year for a lot of future picks. I don't know. They could possibly do the same thing with Tyos Jones. But if Jones and Poole are in the back court together, Poole is going to average a lot of points. He's a big-time score.

I did not love the way he behaved during the postseason with Golden State. He's sulked. he didn't play well but he can flat out shoot it and score his range is ridiculous and he's going to have maybe a green light to get 30 you know to get 25 plus shot attempts up a night minimum would not be surprised if Jordan Poole ends up

you know as a top three to five score in the NBA next year he's kind of the biggest you know story in terms of the transactions. But the big picture is the wizards are all in right now on a total rebuild. And they're going to suck for a few years. You know, what they have left roster-wise, you know, assume it's Jones, Pool, Abdea, Kisper, Gafford. They've still got Dilanwright-Mawrott, and Monty Morris on the team. I like Dilan Wright a lot. They'll have Baldwin Jr. They'll have sham it. They'll have Gallinari coming off a knee injury, Johnny Day.

Davis, Gill they've got on the roster. We'll see whether or not Kulobali's ready more on him in a moment. I actually think like a backcourt of Jones and Poole, you know, I hope that they don't threaten 25 to 30 wins. Like you really want, you know, you want to see this thing bottom out. You want to see, you know, what San Antonio ended up winning, you know, 22 games. You want to see Detroit's 17 wins next year. You want to see a chance for the next two years at selections in the top two to three of the draft. Now, on the player that they drafted, the players that they drafted, the G-League, overtime elite international players, I'm not going to lie to you. I didn't watch those games. I watched a lot of highlights of Balal Kulabali. I read a lot about him. And I think

you've got a player who grew recently from like 6-3 to 6-8. He's got a 7-2 wingspan. What you see on, you know, sort of the film is he is a defender. He is a willing defender and with his length. And because he was a guard and a smaller player at one point, he moves his feet very well. And at that level, playing for the Metropolitan 92s with Victor Wemba Njama in France, he was on his team, he really could defend. And Will Dawkins backed that up with me on radio. Will Dawkins said he's a willing and very capable defender right now. Offensively, he's got a ways to go.

And you don't see it in his ball handling. He handles it well. He's got very good vision and appears to be a good passer with good basketball IQ. He wasn't a big time score, but I didn't think that the stroke looked bad. I think he could develop into a good offensive player. But what they drafted was an 18-year-old player, okay? The third youngest in last night's draft with massive upside. And that's the right thing to do, considering where they are.

You don't want a Johnny Davis type of selection. You want the guy with a massive ceiling. And at that point in the draft, they viewed him to have the biggest ceiling. It's a big boomer bust, according to a lot of the draft experts. But that goes hand in hand with their philosophy right now of long-term approach. And we're going to accumulate as much as we can. We're going to keep our salary caps straight so that we can move. when we want to move, and we're going to take players with big time upside.

And that's what they did in this kid, Bilal Kulibali. And then in the second round, what they ended up getting is they got Tristan Vukovic, you know, a kid who's 610, 611, can stretch the floor and looks like one of those prototypical Eurobigs who can shoot it, who can put it on the floor. And we'll see because it's very possible that he's not even going to come over right away. So that's the draft last night for the Wizards. And with number 57, they ended up getting Patrick Baldwin Jr. I'm actually excited about the pick because, you know,

in watching him play a couple of times this year, and he did not get a lot of playing time in Golden State. He was their first round pick a year ago at 28 overall. But man, he can stroke it from, you know, long range. You know, I was going through, you know, some of the box scores and looking for some of the bigger games he had. And look, he didn't play in a lot of games. But he had a game in December where they got run by Brooklyn. In fact, it was that stretch with Brooklyn where they had that kid off the bench.

It was scoring a lot of points. his name now. Anyway, in that particular game, Baldwin Jr. had 17 points in 23 minutes, five of eight from behind the arc, six of ten overall. The next night in a win over Utah, he had 11 off the bench in 13 minutes. He was three for five from behind the arc. So they gave him some minutes in back-to-back games, and he ended up shooting, you know, 10 of 17 from the floor, 8 of 13 from behind the arc. There were a couple of other games. He had back-to-back games in February, where he played just 10 and 16 minutes,

but he had 11 points in both of those games, where he was 3 for 5 from behind the arc in both of those games. So he shot 60% in back-to-back games. He can really stroke it. And I'm actually, and he's 6'9, by the way. And he's not super, super skinny. You know, he's not physically built out. I'm looking for his weight right now.

Because I'm going to guess that he's 200 pounds, 210, something like that. Which, you know, he looks kind of thin and skinny, but I don't think he is necessarily. He's 220. He's 6-9-2-20. So that's essentially part of what they got back in last night's draft as well, trading number 57 overall as part of the Paul deal for. Patrick Baldwin, Jr. But overall, you know, man, what a busy week for the Washington Wizards.

I can't remember a busier week for the Wizards than this past week. With them being in the news, almost every major trade was a trade they were involved in. I love what they're doing. I like the return. And there's no guarantee that the outcome we all want as Wizards fans, which would be to be a contender somewhere down the road. That's not guaranteed. But it was pretty much a guarantee that they would never contend

doing it the way they were doing it. So there you go. All right. Let's get to John Kime next, right after these words from a few of our sponsors. Don't forget to rate us and follow us on Apple and Spotify and any other platform that allows you to do it. it's very helpful for us. John Kime jumps on with us right now at John underscore Kime. I don't have to introduce John, really. Everybody that is listening knows who John is. He's only

covered the football team for about 25 years. Actually, how many years exactly have you been on the beat? How many years have you been on the beat? I've zip past 25. I think, I think, I have to go back and add it up, but it's since 94. So I believe this would be, what, my 30th season? Good God. So you have not covered one good football team in 30 years. So it was 1994, and if you had like a young John Tom in my time, you can picture me in my living room and tell my wife,

yeah, yeah, honey, one Super Bowl run and I'm out of here. And here we are. But, you know, I joke because it's almost a little bit like Morgan Freeman at Shawshank. Yeah, I know. Well, you've been institutionalized for sure. But I will say, listen, if the worst thing in my life is covering a bad NFL or a mediocre to bad NFL franchise for 30 years, the worst thing, I've had it pretty good because it's football. So I enjoy it. But yeah, it's been a while. Well, when you said that to your wife, and you may have been, you know, joking, but in all serious, I know, but in all seriousness, had you covered a Super Bowl team or two, there would have been huge opportunities for you that perhaps. didn't materialize because you were covering poor teams.

Well, there's that, and there's like, for example, with Robert when he was here, and you see the way ESPN is with people who cover high-level athletes and players like that for an extended period. And not that it's not so much like, oh, could you have parlayed in something bigger, but what does it mean for your career? and, you know, what, you know, and so it just, it means more visibility or whatever it is. And, but yeah, I mean, you know, you think about that once in a while, but like I said, I mean, I like, I like covering a team. I've always enjoyed that because I like having the knowledge of one team and interacting with the fan base, you know, and all that good stuff. But, but, yes, you know, you've, like, I mean, Brian Winhorse parlayed LeBron into a massive,

profile for himself. And my goal wasn't to become some national guys. However, you just, you wonder, where does it go if you cover Robert? If he's at the level we thought he was going to be at for 10 years, then there's just, there's a lot more opportunities. And it could just even be within this market, but there's just a lot more opportunity. Yeah. I mean, you know, the opportunities for people like you would be books.

and, you know, advancing perhaps even with a much higher profile on television, on the network that you do work for occasionally and that you write for as your full-time gig, yeah, right? I know, like, I know my colleagues that have, you who cover high-profile teams what it's meant in many ways for themselves. And even if they're still covering those same teams, which I'd have been happy to keep doing that because I've done it. But, and there have been a couple opportunities where it's like, could I have gone somewhere else? yes. But, you know, I like this, I've always liked this market because it's very competitive and I like that. And I think it keeps you sharp and fresh. But, but yes, I mean, I've seen what some of my colleagues have done where they cover high profile teams and quarterbacks. And, you know,

it's worked out well for them. I know you're from Ohio and you're a big, you know, Ohio sports fan, Cleveland fan, Ohio State football fan. But where did you come from? prior to D.C. Were you working? Like, give me your, give me your entire chronological. College. College right? Yeah.

I came from college and, and so the story is, my wife grew up, she spent a lot of time growing up in the D.C. area. And she graduated from Ohio State about, I think it was six months before I did. I went four and a half years, partly because one year, for the school paper, I had to cover the, I covered the basketball team when Gary Williams was there. And I got to know Gary pretty well. You don't have to apologize for four and a half years of college. It was the best five of my life in College Park.

But the reason you'll appreciate this, though, because the reason I did it is because when I covered the basketball team, it was supposed to be part of a class, well, I wanted to devote myself to covering the basketball team. So I signed up for a few classes, and then once I got the beat, and once we started the semester, at the quarter, I dropped all the classes except that one, so I could just focus on that, and that was at every practice, and I was just always there because I didn't have any other classes. That's why I had to go on extra. But anyway, so she had looked, she was living up in Massachusetts with her mom. She wanted to, she was looking for a job, and we were looking, you know, Chicago was an area. We both had interested, but then she's like, I want to go back to D.C.

Because I like that area. I'm like, okay, I'll look there. The only place, that had an opening out of the 50 papers I sent to after college was the journal newspapers for people who remember that, Golden Daily, Fairfax, Montgomery, PG, Arlington, Alexandria. So they had an opening, and so I got a job here covering that. And so that was several months out of high school, excuse me, high school, out of college. And I was working at a paper part-time in Cleveland called The News Herald, which is at an internship at and they let me do some part-time work after college. So until I got this.

So that's where I came from and then covered high schools for them for five years before they decided they wanted to cover the Redskins. And they asked me to do it. And there you go. So I kind of showed up with no clue as to how to do this. And I was able to learn from other reporters on the beat how it needed to be done. Because honestly, you don't, yeah, I had no clue. So from the journals, you went to where?

Well, from the journals, then it, then it, they turned basically the Washington Examiner, or the examiner newspapers eventually bought them out and turned into the Washington Examiner. And then I was there. I freelance one year, which is full-time freelance covering this team for various outlets. Along the way, I started doing it for like the pro football weekly, the people remember that. sporting news. I did stuff for CBS Sports as side freelance gigs in addition to covering it for the first journal that the examiner and then was with the Washington Post for

very short time I was basically a contractor with the idea of going full time when they could get me there in full time and then in that interim ESPN called. So that's how it went. So, you know, like the papers that I was at, they took care of me enough to make it palable stay,

and my wife had a good situation here, so my kids were growing up here, so we wanted to make it here. Did you grow up in Cleveland? Yes, right directly west. Lakewood, my mom still is in the house I grew up in, 10, 15 minutes from Cleveland Stadium. So, yeah, that's, yeah.

I didn't intend to do this, but sometimes on the podcast. I do this with guests because we have a little bit longer, but just what's your favorite season ever in covering this football team in, you know, 30 or 20 years? 2012. Easily, easily, because I don't think anything can touch that because it was the arrival of Robert and the excitement that it generated in this area was unique for me covering this team. And then his charisma, everything with it, and then the seven-game winning streak, the style of play,

the coaching staff that had him, and the creativity they used. And I love, because you know I like to go back and re-watch the games. And I love doing that. I look forward to doing that. I mean, those, I would do that Mondays and Tuesdays, but, like, those days were extremely long for me. I mean, there are days where, like, you start early in the morning and then you're going until midnight because you're watching, like, I'm watching every play again, and then I'm watching it on the All-22, in addition to the TV version.

But what you, you know, then writing reports on it. But what you would see is just how much what he did, how much, what he did, how much, much it fooled the defense and then how the defense would adjust, how the offense would then adjust to what the defense was doing. And then the excitement of that seven-game win streak, the promise of the future at that point. And I remember going back to the earlier conversation, we had a member after they beat Dallas to win the division, leaving out of the locker room and walking back up, you're starting to leaving outside the locker room area and seeing a front office executive and, you know, his comment was, I can't remember what I told him, but like,

that kid's going to get a lot of people paid, meaning Robert. And so, like, there was all this hope for the future. So, like, that season was the most fun because, and, like, you go back and watch, like, clips from that year, especially, like, the Minnesota game, that touchdown run, watch the crowd react. Why? I would say, watch everybody react, but Kirk Cousins on that touchdown run. You know, who's just, everybody's going crazy. You've got a stone-faced cousin. But, like, so it was that level of excitement.

And when you're covering a team, like, you know, everybody always thinks that it's the negativity that sells. No, BS, it's that stuff. Yeah, definitely. You know, that's street, because that's sustainable. And, you know, the scandal stuff, it's all that. It's like eating the Snickers bar. It's going to feed you in the moment. You're going to be hungry in a little bit.

Like, that year was a meal. So that's why, like that year, I don't even know if it's, I don't know that any other year, there have been some other years worth like there have been a lot of good stories to tell. You know, I think shoot, even in Rivera's first year, you had the Alex Smith comeback. You had Rivera, the cancer situation. But nothing, nothing to me, I'd have to go back and look to see what really would come close to that year as far as a level of excitement around the franchise and, you know, how unique it was. Yeah, as you're saying that, I don't know that I've ever given it much thought for myself,

but in terms of, you know, being now in this business for nearly 20 years, which is amazing to me, and you've been doing it for 30. I think 2012 is the year. I think you're 100% right. I mean, I think I can't remember being more excited. to watch games, to talk about the games on radio, you know, all week long. There was so much that was cool about it, including him. And as you said, the style of play.

And then, you know, this is why it's going to make for a really, really entertaining and very interesting documentary, especially for all of us. You know, whenever somebody does something on RG3 in why. Washington because literally after that Dallas game, it's a week later that it all comes crashing down. And it comes crashing down in literally one game and everything starts to snowball in a very negative way for lots of different reasons. And at some point, that will be fascinating to watch.

And, you know, the people, as you know, the people they get to speak candidly on the record will be the best part of it. Because a lot of people probably will just decline to be a part of something like that. I think there are a couple people we know who would definitely speak on the record about that. No doubt. And then there are, yeah. One of them rhymes with Mike Mannerhead. Well, he's already spoken so much about it.

Yeah. He said what he said. It would be interesting. And I think it would be interesting to hear. more players' perspective on it, because I think we've heard from Robert on it, we've heard from Mike on it, and a couple other coaches, but yeah, or if a guy, you know, certain other coaches, what are they willing to say on the record? Would Matt LaFourre be willing to go on the record? He was a quarterback's coach who actually got along with Robert,

but he was also a coach. He knows what, you know what I mean? Yeah. You know, what would they be willing to say? And what would some of the other players be willing to say about it? And does Robert's perspective ever change over time? And I don't know that it does. I mean, you know, you can, listen, for all the issues we know existed, and there were some that were starting to grew before that injury, that led to, I think, Shanahan keeping him in the game. But, you know, what I can't say is if Robert doesn't get hurt,

does it go south the way it did? I don't know, you know, because, like, when he got hurt, it changed his game and it needed him to become a different quarterback in a hurry and he wasn't ready yet. And that's the part like, so we can see all that because there are other quarterbacks, like you hear things about other quarterbacks like a Russell Wilson even where they had their own issues in the locker room, whatever, but he was still effective. The guy stayed healthy, you know, and if Robert doesn't get hurt, does he, because of one

thing that changed with him from a on-field standpoint is he, he was. lost that burst around the edge. And he had the straight line speed, but I remember watching him get pursued before he turned the corner, and it's like, oh, last year or two years ago, he doesn't get caught. And then he's turning up field, and it's a little bit different. You defend them differently, et cetera. But once he had to play more from the pocket, it's just that way he wasn't there yet. And it's okay.

They knew it would take a little bit of time. So that's where I say, like, that's the part that's hard to answer is what would, what would have happened had he stayed healthy? Yeah, I mean, it's such a, it's a great what-if in franchise history, but there were major character flaws. And by the way, major flaws with respect to his game that were going to be hard to overcome, starting with, by the way, just the physical nature of how breakable he seemed to be as a player.

And the track sort of body that he had. playing that particular sport. Yeah. And that's, because like he always, the hard part, you know, I admired his style as a rookie, you know, but the hardest hits he took, because I remember going back, and this is one of the stories I wrote for the post that summer, and my little stint there was just the hits he took that year. And how, because I remember I went back, Kevin and charted every single play that he

for their offense. And like, and I marked down. I still haven't. I saw the notebook somewhere. how hard was to hit? What was it off? Was it off of scramble? Was it off his own reed?

And the hardest hits he usually took were when he scrambled and ran down field. And so, like, that was part of what they were trying to change is to get him to give up a little bit earlier to protect himself with that. You know, and so I think that's, like, does that mentality ever change? Because that was kind of his style. And so it's a hard question to answer. You're right. And that's why I say, I think it forced him to be. become a different quarterback that he wasn't quite ready to be. And again, that's not a, that's

just, you know, it's hard. And I remember talking to Kirk Cousins about this one time for his style versus like, and I think like guys like Colt McCoy, same way. You know, when you become, when you grow up and you're a running quarterback, it's hard to get out of that. I think we saw that with Carson Went. He could not play from the pocket at the pace he needed to, and he couldn't get out of jams the way he used to. And, you know, and so I remember talking to Kirk about that. He's like, hey, I was never the greatest athlete on the field. So I always had to play from the pocket. So, you know, you grow up that way and it's helped him, I think, survive in the NFL. Whereas, like, again, I go, it's not just Robert. It's cold. It's went. It's guys, you know, who run a lot who, you know, that if you get

hurt, then it certainly takes something away from your game. And then what's your counter to that? That's always the hard part. But it is an interesting question. Would it have been any different? We don't know. But I would be curious to hear how perspectives change over the years, the further you get from it. But all I know is, and I think in some cases it wouldn't,

but I think what I know is that year was a lot of fun. It was a lot of fun. I remember during that time, and certainly the few years that followed, saying that, you know, an older RG3 hopefully will end up having a different perspective, and he'll look back on this time and acknowledge, you know, his role in it. But, you know, the irony of all of this, it's not irony, it's just an interesting contradiction.

And that is that he had the best coaching staff that he would ever have here for the development of him into an NFL style of quarterback, and he had the worst owner. Yeah, I was just said that has to be the – that has to be discussed that part. Yeah, because that part really ended up trumping the, you know, wonderful coaches that he could have taken advantage of had he had a grown-up owner who said, no, you don't come to me, you listen to your coach. He's your coach.

Yeah, no, absolutely. And I think that's a key part of it. And, you know, and that was, yeah, I mean, and yeah, and it's funny how, because Robert on social media now with the sale has been very celebratory that Dan is going to be out of there. It's so crazy. But it was, during that period, it was an issue. And it's, it's a reason why, while an owner, you can develop relationships with players, you can't become their buddy.

you just have to keep things at a level to allow the coaches to perform, you know, to do what they need to do. But I just, you know, he wasn't the only player that he's gotten to know. No. He got to know very well with friendly with. But I don't think, I just think it's a, it's just not a good thing to have. I mean, again, be friendly, be human with them and, and all that, but you can't. Well, you can't empower them above the coach.

Right. And that's, and Dan never understood that, you know, with his star players. He just never did. And I think, you know, it's funny because when he took over as the owner, I remember talking to somebody here, it was like their biggest fear was, what do you know how to put together a team and treat it accordingly? And part of putting together a team is knowing, it's kind of that, right? Knowing who should be in charge of these players. And it's not, you know, now you're signing their checks.

you're in charge of the owner of the situation, but you've got to let coach's coach. And I don't think Jack Kent Cook was empowering players back in the day. He hired people and let him coach. And it sounds like with Josh Harris, that's what he does. So I think that's an important thing to have as an owner. And it's like that was the other thing. Like, again, the 30 for 30, like you would examine that aspect.

How did that play into it? And that's where a lot of other players would come into play. and how did they perceive it, and how do the coaches perceive it? And I know, I know for a fact, going into that 2013, but there were concerns about that relationship and how it would play out for them. And so, you know, it's just, it's unfortunate, because like I said, it was such a fun year, and Robert was such a charismatic personality that it was, you know,

you just thought that this is how it's going to go for 10 years. I remember even before that year, going on the radio at the time and just telling someone like, maybe in the junk, because I don't remember, but I don't see any way this kid fails based on what we've seen in practice. Like, this kid is really good. Oh, my God. I don't know how, like, we were all, we all bought in.

I mean, I have, it was accurate. It was accurate. He was really good. I have one good friend who said early on, he said, I can tell right now this is never, ever going to work. I don't believe him. He's way too charismatic. and two and two glibs. Something's not right there. And I'm like, what? I'm like, look at this dude.

I'm like, you're crazy. I was predicting MVP's plural, you know, during that 2012 season. But anyway, yeah, it was, it was, it was such a, it was such a great year. And it was such a great, um, sort of rebound from what I always believe was for me, the beginning of this thing really, has gotten awful and people are starting to walk away from this team and that was the end of the Zorn era in 2009. That was the first time for me, you know, as not only, you know, a member of the media, you know, but as a lifelong fan, I could feel it and I knew people that were starting to walk away and starting to say, I'm not paying for tickets anymore. I'm not going anymore. It was the Zorn ending And then all of a sudden in 2012, everybody was back again, which is why, you know, some people believe that an exciting winner will bring everybody back now.

And I still think it will because, listen, one thing, there may be some fans who don't come back. And, you know, that's too bad. And, you know, you feel bad for a generation that may have been, like, they're just getting pushed out for, whatever reason or they just lost their love. I get it. We've all seen what's going on here. But you can start to develop a different fan base because what would happen for a long time, like the street I lived on used to live on, all the kids would root for the teams of their fathers. And so they're, and everybody, because everybody comes from a different area, that's who they're

rooting for. This team did not give them a reason to latch on to them. You know, there was like you'd have that one year, like 2012, and then followed up with 3 and 13. You know, under Gibbs, you'd have a really good playoff run or make the playoffs, and then the next year wouldn't be as great, and so then the next year it would be good, then he's gone. And so like there was, there was never a thing to really kind of get that younger generation. So if you can start to build that, that's what they're going to have to do, is build that younger generation. But I think you can get that because I don't, I don't know why you couldn't.

This is still, it's still a good football area, and the NFL is still king, that if they give fans are reason to believe you may be a different fan base, but you can still get them, I think. I don't know. Maybe, you know, I don't know. I mean, you know a lot of fans, but I, you know how the NFL works. I think what's going to be really interesting is to see how they pursue, you know, fans and customers. Because I do think that the, you know, a big part of their strategy will be to go for, you know,

the independent voters. have called them, you know, the person who hasn't made up their mind, because I do think there are people that are gone forever. Now, the name is a big, the name is a major part of that, and it'll be interesting to see how that gets handled, because I do... I've heard you've been big on that one. Yeah, well, I'm clearly in the majority of this one. I mean, it's like overwhelmingly an issue. Yeah. It's not even, but it's not even like, it isn't, it's, I mean, I think everybody knows has their feeling to the name, my thing has been everything I've heard from this group is

it's never suggested that they're going to attack that, certainly not right away. Yeah. I've heard recently that it is something that they are going to look at. The issue is whether or not they can practically do anything about it because if they have to stick with it for a couple of years, then it may not, you know, be worth pursuing. But I don't think new ownership loves the current name. I will tell you that. Well, I've heard mixed on that, to be honest.

And so, and very mixed on that. But what I've heard is they know they have to build something first. And, you know, and so it's not something you're going to come in and do. What I've always said, it's not a top priority for them, and it's not. Because you have to find the new state and you have to do X, Y, and Z and build a good, if you don't build a good organization, I don't give a crap what you call them. They're not showing up. They were called the Redskins in 2018 when I'm walking around the mall with Josh Norman watching them hand out tickets to get people to go to a game against their people.

Cooley couldn't give them away down on the mall. Right. You know, exactly. So they had the name that they had the name of the line. Of course. People are going up. Look, I mean, yeah. Of course building a winner is the top priority.

I mean, even the biggest diehard of the old name would say they've got to build a winner. but I think that they can walk and chew gum at the same time. Well, here's the problem. Like, the money it takes to do that is quite high. And so, like I said, I've never gotten any indication from multiple people that's something that they would want to attack right away. It's just, I've never gotten that. Well, here's the thing, John, if they don't attack it right away,

then they shouldn't even attack it. You know, because ultimately you're letting this. this name and this branding, you know, linger, which eventually people will get used to. I think they know that. Yeah. I think they know that. Yeah. But one thing, because one thing I did here is like, well, you know, if it's something

that really becomes a stumbling block after the fact, then you have to look at it. And I don't think it's something that you would dismiss because we all know. But if you, let's say they win, let's say they win 10, 11 games this year. and they followed up with the good year next year. And Sam How is the guy? And, you know, then what is the appetite for it on any side? You know, and then here's my other problem with it is, I think people assume that there's an easy fix to this.

No, no, you're right about that. There's not an easy fix because it's not, it's not the old name that's coming back. Redskins is not coming back. So, yeah, no, there's, I mean, look, I think the easy fix is just to brand the team around Washington. But there are a lot of markets. and branding people will tell you that that isn't, you know, how you can ultimately leverage,

you know, a winning product anyway into the most amount of revenue. I don't know. I put it this way, John. If they don't look into this, if they don't address it, whether or not, you know, I'm not saying that if they come to the conclusion, hey, we looked into this and the bottom line is from an expense standpoint, from a mark standpoint, from just, you know, everything we've learned, it just doesn't make sense. that's fine. But not addressing it would be missing the mark with this fan base.

I think there's a lot of things. There's a lot of things they'll be addressing that we don't know about behind the scenes. Of course. You know, I think that would, you have to look at that because if you know they don't like it, if you know that an overwhelming majority has never warmed to it, then you have to look at it. And now, again, being from Cleveland, Indians fan grew up, now the Guardians. and one of the things that help them is people don't hate the franchise. They get frustrated because they think the owner doesn't spend enough, but they don't hate the franchise.

It's been a successful franchise. So while people disliked it and make no mistake, man, that name was there for almost 100 years. It was part of the fabric of the society in Cleveland, right? And everything that went with it. So it's not like one name. carried more weight in an area than the other. That's just not true. But I think it was easier to accept because of all the feelings around it.

You didn't have an owner who was being investigated all the time and who basically embarrassed a franchise that had once been a pillar of the NFL. So, you know, I think so those things kind of helped that. And I'm sure, like, listen, you go to an audience, a Guardians game now, and you're going to see half the people will be in Indian stuff. because, you know, they just, I'm sure there are a lot of people who don't like the name there, but they're, you know, but they're, it's just, it's a different situation because of the feelings about the franchise. Yeah, and not only that.

And it's not bleeding the family. It's just, I understand it's different. But my, but I understand, so my point is in all this is I understand very well the whole name change situation from different perspectives. And I do think that, like, if you're coming in and again, I did, there was someone who's like, well, you know, if it does. if they see once they get here, that's like, oh, this is a problem that really has to be addressed

because, you know, we're doing all this and nobody's showing up and all that. Then it's like, but is that alone going to get people back? Like, what is,

let's say you spend $27 million to change name and you change it to not a name that it's like, oh, that's the name. No, that's the challenge. That's the challenge. That is a challenge.

That is not an easy answer. Yeah. And there is a five-year, once you brand, you have to wait five years before another rebrand now. There's an exception for new ownership. So, like, they could go appeal to it, but if you're the NFL, it's like, dude, come on. You know, so I don't know.

But I do think, like, yes, I wouldn't look at it because if there's something like, and I know other people involved, you know, some of this probably would have looked at it too. Like, would you, should you look at it? Yeah, you should look at it? But should you attack it first? Hell no. You've got other, you've got much more important things to do to get this thing going and right. And, you know, it takes, it's not just like you can put one person on it and say,

hey, you go do this. It's not, you know what I mean? Now, if you look in, you know, you could have somebody looking into it, but then once you make, if you decide, you have to go down that road, now you're devoting an army, you know, a lot more people to it and resources, et cetera. So it's something you'd have to really, really want to attack. But again, I think, you know, and, you know, I would make, let me say this, I'm not defending the name. I'm just telling people, like what you hear from people in that group that there hasn't been, there certainly has not been the stomach to attack this as a top priority. Now, I've always said, like, down the road, you know, is it something, you know,

I can't say no because I don't know, you know. And if it becomes a problem, then I think, of course, you have to look at it. Of course, because you don't want that to be the reason. And I understand, like, the rationale from a lot of fans behind is that they want, if they're going to move on from Snyder, they want to move on completely. And this is a reminder to them of that era. I get that. I get that. And so that's why I say it's dramatically different than the guardians, the Indians going to the Guardians because of all those other side feelings that

as a Cleveland fan, I just don't, you know, someone the fan of the baseball team, I don't have to deal with. It's far different. I get that. Yeah, the Cleveland thing is, it's a good point that, you know, you had a team that wasn't despised and hadn't lost as many fans. And I would add to that, it's also not the number one team in town, you know, with a history like the Redskins had with respect to winning and an era and being such the dominant team in the market, you know, because when the bullets changed to Wizards, look, it was a deal, but it wasn't the deal that it was with the Redskins name being

lost. But anyway, we can spend... I have one more point. I had one more point on that, too. Another difference is the Redskins, I know a lot of people who did not grow up in this area who rooted for them because there's the Washington Redskins. And so whereas in Cleveland, you're growing up rooting for the Cleveland Indians versus the Washington Reds. You know what I mean? Like, so, you know, there are, I meet fans who didn't, you know, from the South.

And, like, it wasn't about Washington. So Cleveland, it's a lot more paternalistic, right? you're, you're, it's more about the city, whereas the Redskins is more about the team. It felt like, you know, obviously a lot of people here, the city embraced it, but there are a lot of fans outside of here who, you know, wasn't just about, oh. It's less parochial, like, yeah. I'm sorry, parochial right here. But, but yeah, so I think that's also part of it.

So I get all that. Like, I know all that. And I, you know, I mean, shoot, I grew up going to Brown games. They moved. So there are people who have not gone back to that. Yeah. Right. There are people who have not gone back to that because they move and so that, but, but, yet, they still sell out because they're, you know, I mean, you have a younger generation that

have continued to grow with them. So anyway, well, look, I didn't, I didn't want to, yeah, I mean, I will, I'll, I'll disagree slightly with what the mindset is within some of the ownership group with respect to the name. Now, whether or not they actually end up, some people in there, so it could be There are some of them that hate the name currently and would love to see something done. And last thing for me, I will continue to check that out because, you know, I mean, and I take that temperature every once in a while because I am curious. And I'm like everybody else. I'm curious.

Well, would they? And the last time I checked out was a few weeks ago or a month ago. And it's like, you know, it's like, you feel like someone's like, why do we keep getting asked about that? And they know. They better know. Well, they clearly, they definitely know. Yeah. But at that point, you know, unless it's changed, unless it changed with Josh Harris.

But, I mean, it could be that there's some in there because I've taught, like I said, I've heard mixed things about the name from people in that group. And it could be over time, the more they study it, the more they realize, oh, maybe there is something. But I know, like, it was not, it is not been. But, you know, people can change their minds. And we still haven't heard from Josh Harris directly. So that's sort of key in that.

Yeah, I mean, look, the net of it is this. It is a major priority for the majority and the significant majority of people that call themselves or called themselves fans of the team. So they would be, I think, you know, I think it would be overly dismissive to not address it somehow. Now, whether or not they can do something about it is a completely different subject. All right, let's move up. I agree with that.

And you have to respect all those feelings. I agree with that, yeah. But clearly the priority, but more than anything else, as it should be. And I think even the most ardent of name priority people would say, oh, please, no, first, give me something that, you know, looks like a real football franchise for the first time in a quarter of this century. All right. Let's talk some football. We'll do that right after these words from a few of our sponsors. All right, let's talk some actual Washington commanders football with John Kahn.

I know, I told Tommy yesterday, I'm like, I must have said for some reason I noticed myself saying commanders a lot on the show yesterday. And I said, God damn it, am I getting used to this? I don't want to get used to it. All right. Remember, when they, I'll never get used to it. I know. And when they change the name, I remember. Joe Seizman that day was telling everybody, you know, hey, if you just go around saying it after

why you get used to it. I'm like, Joe, I love him. I have just found it recently where I'm like, oh, am I actually getting used to it now? And so, you know, and my job, listen, whatever they're called, that's what I'm going to write and call them. Of course. Because that's their name. Yeah. But it is, it is, it's been very weird. And the hard part for me is that if I say, like, I can't say, you know, former Washington

Commander's Corner, Daryl Green, I will not say that because he's not. No, he's not. And you're so like, it's so like, I always. say like the franchise won in 91 or whatever. So anyways, you're going. Let's talk on the field. Let's talk commanders. Their view, as in the commander's view, the coaching staff, et cetera, right now of Sam Howell, more hopeful or more confident? I think both. I think I would say more hopeful at this point because until you see it on the field, it's really hard to be extremely confident because you just, in any player, it's like,

you don't know. But I definitely think they're hopeful. And I think they've been for a while. And I also think after the spring that there are probably things that they saw, like, where it's a developmental part of the game where they're very, I think they feel confident that he can be the guy, but hopeful that, you know, certain, but I would mean more probably, a little bit more toward hopeful. I guess I didn't.

It wasn't the right way to pitch you on this. Because to me, hopeful, what I meant to say is, are they more in the mode of just hoping that it turns out well, but they don't really know, but they're hoping? Or are they actually legitimately confident that this guy can be the guy? I would say I think they feel good about where he's going. Okay. And I have gotten that sense for the entire off season.

And so, yeah, I think they feel good. That's why I say, like, I think, I just think it's hard to be overly, you know, too confident when, you know, I think the hard part with here. When he's playing one game? Right, right, exactly. And then, like, we also know that how many quarterbacks come right in and don't have growing pains? I mean, and how many get put in the situation?

like Brady or Raffesberger, where those growing pains are offset by the talent around them, and they're not asked to do a lot. And I think that's going to be a big key. But I definitely think that they feel good about him and feel good about where he's going and what he can be. I definitely sense that. Just give everybody a sense of what you think stylistically the offense will look like with him at quarterback. So I think you'll see a lot. of you'll probably see a little bit more, maybe some quicker decisions, quicker throws. You know, because the West Coast, obviously, the West Coast is built around giving guys a chance to run and make plays after the catch. So I think you're going to definitely see some of that Dallas game, and you can go back and look what he did well on that game,

which is giving guys like Jahan a chance to run with the ball. And so I think that some of those slants, but I think what you're also going to see with that is, I don't know that necessarily more play action because they didn't run it. last year, but I think you may see more effective play action down the field with him because of the arm and I think the design of the offense. I think, but you know what's funny, Kevin, like really what I think you'll see is a more effective offense simply because I think the adherence to details is a huge deal here. And I think, you know, I think that's more important than stylistically, that's more important than the style

because the style last year could have worked if there's, I think, like, what would always be frustrating is that you'd watch some of the games again like, why are all these guys in the same area on this route? That did happen.

You know that, and it happened too often. Now, the play isn't going to be designed. I think it happened more the year before, but you're right. Yeah, it did. And it's like it's not like, you're not drawing up the play to have a clog like that. I mean, it's just, you're not. So why is that happening? And I think those are some of the things. I think you'll see a stronger screen game. I think you'll see, you know,

I think you'll see more varied drops and putting them in position where maybe more a little bit more three-step get-it-out situation. But again, I go back to the details of the offense or of people's jobs, and that's one thing you saw that jumped out with the enemy this spring is, is how you demanding he was with that, and shoot. I'm a fan, that's what I want to hear first and foremost, because the style of the offense matters to the, you have to have the talent to match. And I do think they have the talent to play the way I just said.

You have guys who are very good underneath and who can make plays after the catch. You also have receivers who can, while you're sending Jahan, McClorn, even Curtis on some shorter routes, you can send Diami over the top. Or you can send Kerry over the top. You know, so you have that ability to play that way, but I think it's that adherence to details that will ultimately matter more than style. Is the offensive line going to be a problem this year or not? I think to me that's a big wonder, right?

And what I, they have starters at four, they have four new starters. So I'm going to consider Sam Cosby, right guard, a new starter because he hasn't played that position before as a starter or an extended time. Now, I think that's actually where he can be very good, but we haven't seen it there yet. He's got to play it. And I like Nick Gates as a center. Will he stay healthy and you got Stromberg is a backup. What's going to happen at left guard? Are to tackle? You know, Wiley, is he better at guard or tackle? How good a tackle is he going to be? I think those are a lot of questions, you know, that you have to answer. Where's Charles Leno at with everything. And so like I think you have, those are all questions that have to get answered.

And so that, that to me is a big question. Now, what I don't know, Kevin, is how much does the change in the style, in the scheme, can that help them? And the play calling, does that help them? Do you sell the play action a little bit better than you had in the past couple years to give the quarterback a little bit more time? You know, do you, are you setting things up a little bit better? Are you accounting for the pressure and trying to do things, the screen game again, to lessen the pressure? So all that stuff we don't know, but I think it will be better, but it will be good enough? I don't know. And I don't think, I think like that line, if you're looking at like, I mean, you know, they're going to have to go out and get a tackle next draft,

right? Next off season, somehow. And so that's going to be. be those, there are definitely questions there. But I don't know how big a concern it is as much as there are definitely questions about it. And could it be a concern? Yeah. But I want to see how play calling, how everything affects the line as well. And, you know, we've seen lines here in the past where you don't have all these big name, you know, number one draft picture and all that that have done pretty well.

But you have to have the right situation to get that. and do they? And we'll see. But that's definitely the thing I'm watching. Because they're skill talent, very good. I like where the tight ends I think they can do. I think the running back group is solid. And then Howl's going to be tied to that line and play calling as well. So we'll see.

Kareem Hunt, the report last week, I think it was from Josina Anderson, if I'm remembering it correctly, that there was some interest from the team in him. Are you buying that or not? I haven't heard anything to corroborate that, but see or see, I think, put terms of like secretly looking into it. Well, if you're secretly looking into it, it's not getting public. But so I know what I was told like, and I said it on my podcast too, but what I was told is just they don't know where that's coming from. Is that a flat denial or is that just a, I don't know, you know, I don't, you know, I don't, but I haven't gotten that sense. Now, where it makes sense is that the enemy is close to hunt, but if you're checking them out,

this is the guy that's close to him. What are you checking out? And you can just put on the film and see if he can still play or not. But if the guy has a good relationship with them, you know, I also know that sometimes things get leaked because you're trying to help a guy's market. I don't know that I'm not saying that's the case here, but that certainly happened every year that I've been in covered the NFL. I also know that they like

Brian Robinson and they like Antonio Gibson and it was the enemy who wanted Chris Rodriguez but then you go that I keep going and say well I also know that that screen game is a big deal and who ran it well in Kansas City and who was a good player for them in Kansas City

but that's what five years ago so you know a lot has happened and if you look at like I would not So I don't know that I'm completely buying it. Where I would buy it is if it's like, hey, if something happens in training camp to one of these guys, then of course. That would make sense. I don't know that it would make sense.

I don't know that it would make sense for Kareem Hunt. Not that he's like, you know, I think, and I always say this too, you chase the, you don't chase the name. You chase the player where he's at right now. And fans here, Kareem Hunt, like, well, you know, I mean, again, you know where I'm from. I mean, I was able to watch them a little bit, and I hear from my family about the Browns or whatever. And so he wasn't as effective, certainly last year. And, you know, you look at Gibson's numbers and just were better. So, you know, but, again, would he be good insurance for them?

Of course. But if you're cream hunt, you're going to want to go somewhere where you're going to be more than just insurance, and could you guarantee that. So I don't, I'm not sure that I'm there yet based on what I've heard. heard, but I'm not going to knock it down 100%, but I just, I'm not there. Chase Young, what are their expectations? Are they optimistic? Are they pessimistic? Or is it a situation where they have no clue what they're going to get? That's a good question. And I don't, I don't know if I could term it exactly one way. I think they felt good about what they saw during

minicamp, you know, but you've got to go, like, he's got to prove it on the field. He's got to show during training camp. I think during the season, obviously, that he's willing to play within what they're asking to do. Sometimes you're going to allow for some freelance if the guys making big plays, right? I remember one time talking to Gerald Green about that with Wilbur Marshall.

They knew he was going to freelance, but they would build that, they would adjust to that within the scheme within the play because they knew what Wilbur might do, right? So you could accommodate his ability to do that. Can you do that with Chase? if he's making plays, yeah.

But I do think what they felt good about was that he looked more confident in the knee during practice. Now, it's shorts and a helmet, so we all understand that. But he looked more confident, and I think one of the big things that I would hear at the end of the year last year was they wanted him back on the field, so they didn't have to go through this adjustment period this summer. They knew the knee was fine, the doctors didn't clear it, but they wanted him to get past that mental hurdle at the end of last year,

so we didn't have to go through it this year. And so I think that's where they feel good. Now, he's got to go out and do it. And, you know, so that's the part where I don't know that you can say, like, oh, I think this guy's going to do it because we haven't seen enough. I don't know that. I don't know that. You know, I don't know that.

Well, again, shorts in the helmet, but he looked confident. He looked explosive. And I think you'd have to feel good that, like, hey, maybe this guy can come back and be the kind of guy that we thought he could. if you're thinking like them. I'm going to let you handle this answer because you brought it up that they wanted to see him at the end of last year. They wanted him to get over that mental hurdle.

What week do you think that they thought he was ready to play? Probably a couple weeks earlier than when he came back. So why didn't he play against Atlanta as an example? There were, boy, I'm trying to remember back to then because I know there were a couple times where I think he just didn't feel like he was ready, and they wanted him to feel like he was ready. I think they got to a point where they were just going to play him regardless because they knew that his knee was fine.

He just had to go through it. And so, but you know, you're testing my memory a little bit here. It's okay. It's all right. It's fine. You answered the question. I've talked about it before, that they were hoping that, they were hoping that, you're, that he would be and thought he was ready to get back out into the field several weeks earlier.

Correct. You know, and it ended up being in San Francisco that he returned. All right. The gap right now between Philadelphia and, you know, the projected last place team, Washington, how big is that gap? It's funny, because we just did this for ESPN.com. We had a little round table, and that was the first question. And my answer was, you know, between, I mean, there's a definite gap because it's the two things we talked about earlier,

offensive line and quarterback. It's Jalen Hertz net line because I think everywhere else you can say they're there, you know, but those are two pretty big areas. I mean, this defense, this defense should be really good. Agreed. And, you know, statistically, they were better than Philadelphia's last year. And definitely in several areas. of them because I think Philly had a really good defense, but certainly they were right there.

And, you know, again, skill guys, you know, I like what these guys have. Now, do they have Dallas Goddard? No, but I think Logan Thomas can be definitely effective again based on what we saw this spring. And so then it's like, well, where's Sam Howell compared to Jalen Hertz? And then that offensive line. That's a really good offensive line. The Eagles have done a good job building that up. There aren't questions about how good is that line going to be. You know it's good. Now, things change every year, but like, so that's

where the gap is. And so the gap is, and I think I even put in my answer in that question, you look at the total QBR for the teams, and it's a significant difference. And for I think the Eagles were like 64. Yeah, I just found, I just found what you were talking about. It was Washington's

QBR last year, 39.1, 26th in the league, and Philadelphia's was 63.4. in the league. And when you look at that QBR, the reason that is important, I think I have like the top 11 teams, of those top 11 teams in total QBR, 10 of them. All had a winning record. Ten made the playoff. So that's why that's that is important, whereas you look at the bottom, like 12 or 13, all had losing

record. So that's where the gap is. And can they close that? And it's going to have to be Philly coming back a little bit. And then, you know, Philly's going to have some questions of their defense. They replace a lot of guys. Are those guys ready to play? We'll see. You know, but Howell is going to have to produce for them to really close in it. I do think this team can move up in the division. I don't, you know, I definitely think they can move up. I think they can tend for a playoff spot. But can they, can they challenge, you know, are they ready to challenge Eagles? I think it'd be really hard to say that at

this point. Boy, you know, I just looked it up. That's a real, not that it's not intuitive to any football fan that, you know, the highest QBR numbers are teams that are going to end up with winning records and the playoffs. The top 11 quarterbacks finished with a winning record, 10 made the postseason, and the only team that didn't nearly made it, and that was Detroit, with Jared Goss. The 9 and 8. Yeah, and they were 9 and 8. Yeah.

So, yeah, so, yeah, and it's more than passer rating, because pass rating is going to be. No, no, the QBR number. We're looking at the QBR. Yeah, we're looking at QBR. Right, and that's why I'm just explaining to people, like, why I use that. Obviously, it's an ESPN staff, but it's also, to me, more indicative of success than, like, pass a rating. That's right. All right.

Last two for you, and I'm not holding you to this, okay? It's only June 23rd, but. And we'll do this again in late August or early September. But I want, first of all, I want you to pick the order of the NFC East. and then I want you to tell me how many wins for Washington. Well, I mean, I'm still, I'm sticking with Philly because there's no reason not to, even though there hasn't been. It was the last repeat winner was, what, 2005 or something like that?

2004, yeah. 2007, 2004. 2004. Yeah. So, like, but every year, you know, and I'm going to stick with them because I do think there's a gap with them. However, you know, I could certainly see somebody else. I like these guys over the Giants. I don't know.

Maybe I'm foolish on that. I think it's hard to put them ahead of Dallas right now. It's certainly hard to put them ahead of Dallas because we just don't know enough, Kevin. How good is How are going to be? So I'm going to put – I'll put them third right now going into camp. And maybe that's a little bit optimistic just because, you know, Daniel Jones, but where is Barclay is Barclay going to be back?

You know, what's going to happen there with that situation? Is that going to be an issue? I just, I'm not, I just not sold on the Giants completely. Okay. How many wins? For the third place commanders. It's so hard right now because there's so many questions that if it's, you know, I could see nine. But I just think that's like, I could see them winning nine or ten,

but if that's dependent on how being a good quarterback, not just developing into one, but being one, you know, and then how they use them. But I don't think you can understand the impact of the enemy. I just think he's going to have, I think he's good for this organization. So, you know, we can go there, I guess, but I don't know that I feel great yet because there's just too many questions right now. But I think, you know, listen, if Howell doesn't work out,

I think Percette could come in and be the kind of, kind of guy they need. He's not the big play guy, but I think with this defense and potential run game that he could be good for that. You know, good enough. But, you know, so I guess I'll go there. I don't know what I feel good about. That's good.

Third place, nine wins. And that would, you know, be an indication that the division's going to be very good again. Yeah. And I think it's hard to go. Because, like, I mean, obviously, you know, injuries play a factor in that. But I do think, like, just knowing what we know now, you know, I like this team's defense a lot. I think they played really fast this spring. And I like the new guys they've added.

Just that the questions are, again, you know, I like how. But when is, you know, when will he be good? Because there's always, like, you know, their thing is like, oh, you can be better than Heineke. But when? When? When. When will that happen? Will it happen?

Is it right now, or is it going to be that way? And then, you know, and then so what level can you get to? And then you look at that schedule and like, you better start off pretty strong. Otherwise, it's going to be difficult. And so that's where this thing can get tripped up is if you don't start off, you know, with three and three or four and two, you're going to have some, you could have some issues down the road. And that's where it could get off the rails a little.

Now, I say off the route, I think they're too good to get off the rail. I agree. I think they're too good defensively to win three games and get Caleb Williams. I don't see that happening. But you never know. Injuries could completely, that happens all the time. And it's funny because every time something happens with this team, I get text from people last year like, they're only going to win four games.

They're like, they just have too much for that. It's like just because Dan Snihanes is being investigated, doesn't mean the players in the field are going to be really bad. Like it's not going to change that, oh, now suddenly Duran Payne and John Allen aren't. any good? No, like, they're good. And, like, I like what they've built defensively, and that, and I do think that, I mean, I really, I can't understand. I have a story on the enemy going up, I think it's going up this weekend, about, like, just the impact he's made already. And, I mean, there's just a difference, man. And so, you know, but there's still questions. Again, I don't

care how much faith you have and how we don't know when it's going to happen for him. And there's always an adjustment when you have a new offense, a new coordinator, and a young quarterback. There just is. And so can you win while he's developing? That will be the key. Have they built enough around him to help him? Rarely does that happen, you know, even if Sam Hal turns out to be the guy. And it's clear this year that he's developing towards being the guy.

Most times in that first year starting, you don't end up with a winning record. How many wins would you put them out right now? If he starts all 17 games, I think it's probably like somewhere in the 6 to 8 range. They're not going to be a playoff team because, again, I mean, it doesn't happen that way unless you've got Patrick Mahomes, and I don't believe they have Patrick Mahomes. I'm not ready to go there. And I don't know if that's like, am I giving you the most optimistic? Because I don't know. I mean, I could see seven wins if it's like that, you know.

I could see feeling really good at the end of the year about six or seven wins because Sam Hal showed that there's a really good chance he's going to turn into the franchise quarterback. But I think if he shows that, I think it's going to be more than six or seven because the defense I think is good. Yeah, but he may not really show that until later in the year. It may be an evolving developing thing. And that's why I say we don't know when it will happen, but if it does, and so I think that's a, to me, a best case scenario for them would be nine or ten. No, you're at nine. You're at nine. You're at nine in third place, and I'm holding you to that.

No, no, no, no, no. I'm kidding. I think that's an option. We'll do. Yeah, we'll do this. We'll do this in September, although it's not like in September we'll have a better grip on things. Well, I think we will because we'll get that Baltimore scrimmage. That'll help a lot. Okay. The old Baltimore scrimmage is going to really tell us a lot. I'm glad they're scrimaging. Don't get me wrong. But I don't even think we know. five weeks into a season. No, we don't know. And who's really good and who's bad.

I think, you know, and so I could see in that seven to nine range. So who knows? I don't know. You're the best. Thanks for doing this. Thanks for spending so much time. John underscore Kime on Twitter. And don't forget, John's got a podcast too.

It's called The Kime Report. You can get that wherever you get your podcast. I will talk to you, I'm sure, soon and more likely than not, prior to the next time we do this on radio or on the podcast. Thanks. All right, Kevin. Thank you. John Kime, everybody. John is truly one of the really good people in the business here locally. A great guy and does a great job. All right, we are done for the day. I'll be back on Monday.