The Kevin Sheehan Show - Wizards Head Coach Brian Keefe

Episode Date: May 13, 2026

Kevin opened with NFL Schedule reveals along with the Netflix announcement that Jayden Daniels will be one of the QBs featured in its "Quarterback" series this summer. Wizards Head Coach Brian Keefe joined Kevin on the show. He talked NBA Draft, what it's been like coaching during a re-build, what it will be like to coach a team that's trying to win next year, and a lot more. Mike Ginnitti/Spotrac was a guest of Kevin's to talk Brandon Aiyuk and what a contract for Stefon Diggs might look like.   For all your football betting needs: DCRELOAD at MyBookie for a 50% Deposit Match   Chime is not just smarter banking, it is the most rewarding way to bank. Head to www.Chime.com/SHEEHAN. It only takes a few minutes to sign up.   Get 20% off your first order at www.FastGrowingTrees.com with code [Sheehan].   Refresh your everyday with luxury you'll actually use. Head to www.quince.com/SHEEHAN for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada, too. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it, but you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Here's Kevin. I've got two guests on the show with me today. Brian Keith, the head coach of the Wizards, will join me in the next segment. And then following Brian, we will talk with Mike Genetti from SpotTrack. We'll find out from Mike what a Stefan Diggs contract might look like.

The show's presenting sponsor, as always, Window Nation 86690 Nation, windownation.com, if you need new windows. So, the international slate of NFL games was made official by the league this morning and Washington will play Indianapolis

on October 4th in London. Is there an echo in here? I think someone may have said that a week ago today. I can't believe I got that one right. Yeah, a week ago today, I delivered to you my annual mock schedule, and I had the Colts as Washington's opponent in London on Sunday, October 4th. My rationale for that, I think I talked about this a week ago.

My rationale for that was I thought they would have an early buy week week. this year. And buy weeks typically follow the international games. Teams get their by week coming back from Europe or wherever, especially Europe. And I thought that there was a good possibility that Washington's buy week would be early. And I knew the dates for the London games. They were October 4th, October 11th and October 18th. So one of those was likely going to be a Washington game, and I thought the earliest game would give them the earliest possible buy week. That was my rationale. The Colts was just a guess.

I mean, I put this out a week ago because I did not want to be influenced by leaks or actual official announcements from the league, which started to come out earlier this week. But it would not surprise me if I get the buy week correct as well, because the Eagles and the Jags are playing. on October 11th. Some of you thought maybe it's possible Washington could have back-to-back games in London. I considered that as a possibility. I didn't go with it. I'm glad I didn't because Washington is only going to play the one international game this year.

By the way, the other international games include we know about 49ers and Rams in Melbourne, Australia, to kick off the season. That's a Netflix game. That's a Netflix game that will take place Thursday night, September 10th, following the opener that Seattle will host on September 9th. And then the rest of the international games are as follows. Baltimore at Dallas, and we knew about that one, week three. Washington Colts, week four. Week five, Philly against Jacksonville, six, Houston against Jacksonville. Then week seven, we get the first ever game in France. Paris will host the Saints and the Steelers. Then week nine, this is now into November, November 9th. Madrid, it'll be Falcons Bengals, followed by on November 15th, the Lions and Patriots in Munich,

and then the final international game, nine of them this year, the Vikings and the 49ers in Mexico City on November 22nd. We have also learned today that the Thanksgiving Eve game, yes, Thanksgiving Eve, will feature Green Bay at the Rams. So Wednesday night, November 25th, 8 o'clock, kick Eastern Time on Netflix, Packers at Rams in the first ever Thanksgiving Eve game. And now we know what the early Thanksgiving Day game will be. We learned the other day that Eagles Cowboys will be the Thanksgiving Day game in Dallas at 430. The 1 o'clock Thanksgiving Day game

Bears at Lions. Now, is it possible Washington could play Thanksgiving night? It is, I did not mock Washington with a Thanksgiving Day game. I did not mock Washington with a Christmas Day game either. Remember, we also have a Black Friday game Thanksgiving week. How about Thanksgiving week? A Wednesday night Thanksgiving Eve game, then a triple header on Thanksgiving Day, then a Black Friday game. That is five standalone games before we ever get to the Week 12 Sunday slate. But Bears, Lions early on Thanksgiving Day, Eagles, Cowboys, and then we don't know the Thanksgiving night game. It could be Washington. I'm guessing it won't be, though. Minnesota and San Francisco both on Washington's schedule play the Mexico City game on the Sunday before the Thanksgiving week approaches. So they're probably not going to be an opponent. We know Indianapolis won't be an opponent. We know Philly and Dallas can't be. opponents for Washington in that Thanksgiving night game. I think the Thanksgiving night game goes elsewhere. Tommy pointed out, is it, you know, probably a non-starter for three of the four NFC East teams to be playing on Thanksgiving Day? Maybe. But anyway, we have those games that we've learned about today, the whole international slate as well. Yeah. So I got one right on my

mock schedule. And maybe two right with the by week, because I consider that to be a prediction that I could get right as well. I mean, the most I've ever gotten right is four. And four is pretty hard to do. So it would not surprise me if these are the only two I get right. At Philly, I had as the season opener. I've seen some rumors out there that Washington's going to open up with Atlanta at home. I don't know. A lot of these leaks are not true. true. So we'll see. I have them at Philly and then I have them at home against Houston and then a week three game on Thursday night football against the Giants. All right. So that's your schedule news. Of course, tomorrow night this schedule comes out in its entirety. And look, you're going to get

leaks all day long. And a lot of the leaks on the day that the schedule comes out officially, more often than not, a lot of them are right, especially when you see whole schedules leaked. I don't know why they do this this way. By the time we get to tomorrow night, in the last few years, anyway, it's seemed anti-climactic. But I will be here with Tommy tomorrow, probably prior to the official schedule, but there may be more leaks or even more official announcements from the league before the schedule goes. official and live tomorrow night at 8 o'clock. By the way, speaking of the schedule and the Netflix, you know, Thanksgiving Eve game, Netflix announced today that in conjunction with the games that they will have next year,

they are going to do their quarterback series again this summer. It'll start Tuesday, July 14th. and one of the four quarterbacks featured Jaden Daniels. Wow. Netflix's cameras were behind the scenes all year long with Jaden Daniels during this season. You know, I had not heard that from anybody. I'm going to ask Ben the next time I talk to him if he saw that or knew that. But, man, that will be must watch.

not because I'm expecting Jaden Daniels to be a dynamic personality and super entertaining. I'm not expecting that, but who knows? You know, the way people are publicly sometimes can be completely opposite of the way they are privately. And not that this is, you know, totally private, but the stuff we might get, the nuggets that may emerge. Like if this thing started before the season last year, you know, the Terry McClaren stuff was going on. Maybe we'll find out how Jaden felt about that contract negotiation. The Green Bay game where he got hurt and stayed in the game. The fumble at the end of the Bears game.

The Seattle game, the dislocated elbow, the Minnesota game, you know, the holding him out of the final four games and how he really felt. There have been some, you know, definite nuggets uncovered from this. series over the last few years. Looking forward to that, for sure. That will be interesting. Did you guys see what Stefan Diggs said the other day about Washington? This has gotten a lot of play in the media so much so that Pierre Garsohn commented on Stefan Diggs's comments. It's actually been reported in a way that I think is very much exaggerated. But on Mother's Day, he held an event, in town. You know he's from here. He played a good counsel, played at Maryland. He's a DMVer. And Wes Clark, who is a social media producer at the radio station, both radio stations,

1067, The Fan, and 980. He actually is a part-time producer as well. When my guy, Max, is out of town. Wes usually produces. He produced the other day for me. He attended this Stefan Diggs event and asked Stefan Digg, about, you know, whether or not he'd be interested in playing in Washington. And he said, Diggs did, quote, yeah, a little bit. You know, I'm familiar. Actually, let me rephrase. The question was, have you thought about playing in Washington?

And he said, quote, yeah, a little bit. I'm familiar with the city and I'm familiar with the people. So we're going to see down the pike over these next couple of months. what looks good, what makes sense. I definitely want to shed some light on them and might go check them out for a little bit. It's love, it's hometown, so it makes sense. But right now, I'm taking a breath. I've been training.

I've been doing everything I'm supposed to do, close quote. I think this was, for me, a nice way of Stefan Diggs not dissing his hometown. Like Kevin Durant wouldn't even take a meeting with Herney Grenfeld. Stefan Diggs is saying, I love D.C. I want to give him a chance if there's a fit there, but he's not expressing preference necessarily for Washington. Pierre Garsohn saw a site called NFL rumors put out Diggs's comments and say Diggs prefers to play with the commanders in 2026.

It's not what he said. It's very much exaggerated. But Pierre's response was, this would be really good for both sides. I believe it will happen, closed quote. I don't believe it'll happen. And the reason I don't believe it'll happen is because I think Brandon Ayuk is going to happen. And I think if Stefan Diggs knows that, he doesn't want to be a third wheel with Terry and Brandon Iyuk.

He'd rather be a one or a one A somewhere else. that's my guess. Look, Stefan Diggs, I said this the first time we started talking about Stefan Diggs as a possibility that, first of all, I'd welcome it. Like, I think he is an absolute dog on game days. He is one badass competitive dude. And in short doses, meaning for a year, I mean, he can really help you. And he played really well last year in New England, 85 catches over 1,000 yards.

He's still really good at 32 years old. He would be an unbelievable compliment to Terry. But what I mentioned about his past is he's always been the number one receiver. And the truth is he's never had a legitimate number two wherever he's been, except for Adam Thielen in Minnesota. And that's a long time ago now. I think it would be a great fit for the team, a great fit for him. I'd love both him and Iyuk.

I'd be up for that as long as the team checks all the boxes with both. players, you know, physical, you know, readiness, mental stability with IUC in particular. I like Stefan Diggs as a player, always have. And I don't want this year to get to like the midway point. And it's like, all right, the defense is improved. The kicking's not, you know, terrible. And the offense is really good, but it could be much better if they had another receiver. I mean, we're past the point of just focused on culture building. You know, Dan Quinn's done a phenomenal job with that. I don't want somebody coming into the locker room and being disruptive to what they're doing, but I want talent on the roster. And I think they've added a lot of it

on the defensive side of the ball, but I think there's more to go on offense. And again, neither player may be of interest to the team because of, you know, physical or mental, you know, due diligence items that they just aren't comfortable with. But as players, the Brandon I from 2023 and even the Stefan Diggs from last year would be, I think, helpful for sure. A couple of other quick things before we get to Brian Keefe. First of all, AJ DeBanza, he had a vertical leap of 42 inches at the NBA Combine, number one among all the prospects.

You know, there is some reporting out there that suggests that he's got a relationship with the Utah jazz owner, that he liked living in Utah playing at BYU. He's from Boston, and that Utah would be a preference for him. Look, my position is really simple on this. The Wizards at number one have the opportunity to take the player in this draft that has the best chance of becoming a a future superstar, not star, superstar, a future MVP or a future MVP candidate. If they don't think that player exists in this draft, then think about trading down a spot with Utah if they really want DeBonza, you know, and pick up, you know, Ace Bailey or, you know,

I wasn't the biggest fan of Ace Bailey this time last year, but pick up, you know, a player, a pick, and then you're still sitting there at number two. Look, if you've got two players, players dead even, you know, in terms of the best player in this draft. You know, if it's Peterson and DeBonsa, maybe, you know, you move back a spot. But if there's one player that represents to them an opportunity to have a superstar five, six, seven years down the road, you take that player, period. How about the NBA playoffs last night with Victor Wimbunyama? My God, he is an alien. I don't think I've ever seen a player alter more shots at the rim. He is an absolute defensive menace. You cannot shoot in the paint a normal way against him. And then offensively, his ability

to stretch the floor, shooting threes, put it on the floor. I mean, he's really something else. That game was intense. I thought it was one-sided. officiated. The numbers didn't necessarily say that, but I thought Minnesota got a poor whistle in the first half in particular. We'll see if they get a better whistle at home Friday night in game six and if they can force a seventh and deciding game. How about the Nats? Second highest scoring team in the bigs, 10 more runs in their 10 to 4 win against Cincinnati last night with six homers in the game. Another one for James Wood, that's 12 for him.

Wow, through 42 games, more than a quarter of the season, the Nats are exceeding preseason expectations at this point. Brian Keefe, the head coach of the Wizards, next. I'll be honest, at first I was skeptical about ordering plants online, like, is this thing actually going to show up alive? But that's what surprised me most about fast grass. growing trees. They don't just ship plants. They've built a whole system to protect them until they arrive at your door. Every plant is handpicked and carefully inspected, and the packaging is designed

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describe, in your words, what it's been like to be the head coach where the priority has been more about developing young players than actually trying to win games. What's that been like? I think the thing we've looked at as an organization is, and you kind of said at the beginning, is we want to build something that's going to be sustainable. So we can have many cracks at the championship as you can. And how do you going to do that? Well, we obviously, we're going to go through a little bit of a phase here where we were going to build the team through the draft. And the things that we thought were important is we were going to teach our guys the habits that go into winning. So that was always my focus is that we weren't going to skip any steps.

We were going to build it brick by brick, and we were going to establish in a way of how we worked and how we trained and how we prepared every day. And I think, obviously, we had, it was like nine guys who were 21 and under on our roster to start the year. Right. And we're teaching those guys how to do that. and you can see that that is starting to pay off and you can see that the jumps some of these guys have made pretty much all of them have but you can obviously see that with Alex

and Kishan and Bob and Bilal and Eddie and Trey Johnson and Will Riley. You saw the growth of them this year they were going to be opportunities with them because of where we were as a roster but they took advantage of those opportunities but it was really the work behind the scenes and learning how to be a professional. Those are the things

we focus on because we think that's and make us sustainable, and that was the goal all along. That seems from afar, from the outside looking in, to be a challenge. Because what you're describing, it seems intuitive. It seems like there are certain habits that go into winning and being a professional. But at the end of the day, ultimately, when you got into the games themselves, winning wasn't necessarily the priority. That seems like a bit of a conflict, no?

I disagree with that because there's a lot that goes into winning. No way this shows up and just wins. Even a veteran player just doesn't show up and wins. Every team starts every year, zero and zero years when we go into next year. You still have to build the proper habits. And what we wanted to see from our guys was we would get into these more competitive situations. I think you saw that this year, you know, the amount of more competitive. games were more of crunch time games where you're in.

And our record end up being very good in those. But these guys were developing, as we got into the mid-December, early January, into the All-Star break, you saw us playing a brand that was growing as a team. I think that was really important because, like, yeah, we're all competitors. We want to win. We all are like that. We have competitive guys in our locker room. But are we building it the right way?

Are we doing things the right way? or, you know, am I going to try to do something where we're just maybe I'd get a one-off win because maybe I would do something to trick the game to just get that one night. Now, we want to build something that's going to be lasting and can handle under pressure. But to me, that was like an exciting, challenging, all of it's challenging. This is, you know, professional sports, but I think we were built for that, and our organization's built for stuff like that. But to me it was really exciting to help shape these guys in terms of being a team that's going to be able to be growing and competing as we go down the line.

Will Dawkins told me, I don't know, maybe a month and a half ago when he was on the show. It was right after the Anthony Davis trades or two months ago or whenever that was. He said, you know, it's now time to develop players in kind of a new setting. One where the games, you know, he said, you know, for a lack of a better description, are more meaningful to the standings. Explain to me the difference between doing what you've been doing, developing players, developing habits, etc. In an environment where the standings didn't necessarily matter,

they mattered actually for the other side or the bottom of the standings versus what it will be next year when you are teaching these habits, developing these habits, but also you've got an eye on the standings hoping to continue to climb up them. I think obviously we make the additions of Trey and Anthony Davis to our group, and I think the way we look at it, they're going to help our group grow. They're going to help us put us in positions to be, you know, obviously ascending, I think is a good word in building towards where we want to go, but they're going to help our younger

players on the roster continue to develop. We know what Tray Young can do with his ability to pass, and we felt like that was going to be a thing that was going to help really our team growth tremendously. And then we obviously got we're very lucky to add Anthony after that trade, and

we all know what he can bring in terms of being a defensive anchor, and he'll do that with Alex, and then obviously his ability to score. I think it's just going to put our players in positions to make that next step. And that part is, you know, part of the learning curve is, you know, being in these games that are going to be, you know, matter and keep climbing

and learning from that. I think these two guys adding them to the roster gives us a really great opportunity to do that. What will we learn about you, Brian Keefe, when you start coaching games that matter more in terms of the standings that we don't know about you through these first two and a half years in a completely different environment? I think you're going to probably realize I'm just probably the same person. You know, I believe in the things I believe in, you know, creating an environment where our guys can improve every day, building consistent habits. I was very fortunate to start my career in San Antonio many years ago.

And, you know, that was kind of the things you learn there. I was around all these great players and obviously great coaches and a great organization that there are no skipping steps. Winning is very hard, but how you do it is by building consistent habits. habits. We're going to continue to do those things. Obviously, with the addition of some veteran players, and obviously we're very excited to add another great young player to our roster with the number one pick. I think you're going to see me coach the same way. We're going to continue to grow and get better, but you'll see an uptick and being more competitive next year.

But do you think that something that may be, and I watched enough over the last two and a half years, but I don't have a sense of the following as an example. What Brian Keefe is like in game planning to win a game, in game, in game X's and O's. I think there was a lot of that. You did a lot of that, obviously, during those first two and a half years. But is there anything that you really weren't emphasizing because it wasn't part of sort of the overall big plan that now will see more of?

I wouldn't say that I think obviously we all have to grow and get better and I'm just like the players that we're always growing and learning but I think I've been on a main teams have been very successful and I believe we and myself as an organization all know what it takes to win

and that's can you be efficient on both sides of the ball I think we've seen stretches where we've done that I think we had a good month and a half stretch where we were about 15th or 16th in defense and about the same offense, but that's what drives winning is can you be efficient on both sides. You know, obviously with additions I talked about, I think that's going to help our team grow and put ourselves

in more positions to do that. But the winning is every day is how you prepare and how you train. That stuff, I believe, we've done at a high level since I've been here. And that's the stuff that I think is where, you know, the cement is starting to dry. We're starting to build some continuity to how we do things and how we approach things. I think that's the stuff that's going to win day for us. So I probably should have opened with this, but congratulations. Getting number one on Sunday was a thrill for everybody. Will you take us into the behind the scenes of the lottery? I know you were there. It's true, correct, that when we see the unveiling of the picks, that you guys have already been told the result? True? No, not true. No, I saw it in real time like you

saw. Oh, you did. John did, but did, well, then did Winger or Dawkins know before? Yeah. Yeah, there's always someone in the back room representing your team this year with Michael Winger, our president was back there. So he was the only one who knew beforehand, but he has not been allowed out of that room. So the rest of the world is, you know, it's live on TV. I'm learning just like you do, what happened. So obviously a very surreal moment. So he's not texting you guys saying, we got it. They can't.

Yeah, they're taking their fault. They're taking their fault. Okay. He can't communicate with anybody. So he's not communicating with anybody. All right. So I know you've been coaching a basketball team. You haven't been scouting college basketball,

but you were a college basketball player. You're a fan of the sport. Do you have any thoughts on any of these players? I'll start with AJ DeBonso. Give me. give me a thought or two on DeBanza. The one thing I do know, I know this is a very deep draft

from when our scouts have said and Will Dawkins does a great job leading that group. Obviously, I am so immersed into our team and our season. I obviously know that the day was going to come and we were going to find out where we're selecting. I have not overly gone down to the, you know, which I will start doing now,

but we're still out here in Chicago. and interviewing people and stuff. But I, you know, my job is the coach team during the year, and we have scouts out there all year long watching, learning, studying these guys. I'm obviously trust what they do. As we go into this next part of, you know, leading up into draft and June, and this is where I get more involved, start watching more film, start having conversations with the front office.

But, you know, I really trust we've got a great group. you can see from our track record of the guys that we've drafted here in the last, since I've been here, starting with, I guess, with Ballal and, you know, the guys we've drafted in last three years. We've had seven guys playing the Rising Star Games, which I think is a record. That's never happened in the last two years. So I got great faith in our department, our scarring department, obviously, led by Will. So I probably don't have too much insight onto the players yet, but I do know it is a deep draft.

But you said that now's the time you see. start to begin kind of watching film. And perhaps are you taking part in these interviews as well? Yeah, we're all, yeah, we always do that as a group together. So, yeah, that's the process we're involved in this week. And then obviously we'll start having, you know, at this time of your draft workouts and that type of stuff happens. What's the top, you know, one, two, three things that you as a group are looking for

when you sit down with a prospect face-to-face for the first time? I think the one thing I can tell you is that I can just probably tell you from the guys that we have now, that we have guides that we've identified who really are committed to basketball, who love working on their craft, and love the game itself. I think those are the things that we really value people who really want to work to get better at their craft. We have a Our roster now is filled with guys like that Our guys right now are already back in the gym

Back in Washington, D.C. right now Working every day to get better So we're always trying to find people who have that Who have that love at the game And wanted to continue to improve I think those are the things that stand the test of the time for us The type of people that we would want in our organization This may be overly simplistic in terms of the way

I've seen the last three years. It's like as a longtime lifelong Bullets Wizards fan, I absolutely have been okay with what the franchise has been doing. I'm excited about the future for the first time in a long time. But ultimately, you know, you got to get the players right. And you've talked about a lot of the young players. You've got seven first round guys from the last three years on your roster. You'll add to that next month.

but if you go back and you look at basically all the way back to the 2004 Pistons, that was the last team. You could argue the 2014 Spurs, but pretty much you have had to have a top five superstar kind of a player on your team to win the title. There have been teams that have gotten to the finals without one, but to win the whole thing, you've got to have a top five player in the league.

and part of, from my standpoint, maybe it's simplistic, but it's like eventually if you get as many swings as possible, the idea is you land on a lot of really good players, but you also somehow end up with, and sometimes it's luck, because this is an inexact science, you know, this draft, but land on a top five player, you know, five, six, seven years down the road, that player is a legitimate MVP or MVP candidate. My question after all of that is two part. One, do you agree that that is part of the goal of these last three years is to get as many swings as possible with the idea that if you do, you could land on a top five player, you know, five, six, seven years into his career? I think, yeah, when you look at, it's great that you bring up the history of the game.

You know, I think there are many ways to, you know, build that. You know, obviously the path we chose and we think is the right path we've been building through our draft. And that gives you an opportunity to hopefully, you know, develop in draft one of those guys who can land in, like you said, being a high-level plan this league. But obviously, we've also added some talents for free agents for us, too. I mean, sorry, through trade, free agents. different ways to build it. We obviously added addition of some really high-level players to our team through

trades during the season. I think there are different ways to do. I think in the NBA now, I think depth is really important thing, you know, depth of your roster. But yes, you still need any team needs coaches, organizations. We all need really high-end talent to help push us over the top. And we believe this is one of the ways that you acquire that. Yeah, no, your point's a good one. Like, you know, SGA wasn't drafted by Oklahoma City.

They traded, you know, Paul George in a massive deal. But you have to have those assets and you have to be in position to pull out that trade. But the second part of my question was, you know, forget June for a moment and who was at the top of the draft. Are any of the players, any of the young players that you have on your roster right now, do you see that possibility with any of those players that a Will Riley or a Keishon George or a Tray Johnson is a potential MVP candidate down the road five, six, seven years from now when they're 25, 26, 27 years old? The one thing I've worked with a lot of great players through the years. The one thing I don't ever believe in is putting a feeling on anybody. what I do value about all the guys you talked about

and I talked about Bob and Alex and all these guys too is that there's room for them to continue to get better and better that's the key is that you don't always know how it's going to shape out probably when Shay was drafted probably no one would have thought he would have turned into that but obviously he has

so I think those things are the things that matter to me is that we're going to keep putting our guys and positions to grow as an organization. And I think a lot of these guys have the work ethic, the mental mindset, to accomplish some great things. So you never know. And I don't want to put ever stealing on any one of them because I believe in our guys and I believe in the character they're about.

Have you been watching the playoffs? I'm assuming you have been, right? I have, yeah. All right. So I think we played San Francisco. Antonio once this year and faced Wembe once, but you did the previous year as well. Have we ever seen anything like him, Brian, in the history of this league? Great question.

Probably not, I guess. Because of my first guess, obviously, a great player. I don't like to comment too much on other players and other teams, but obviously a generational player, just the impact that he can have on, you know, really both ends, which, you know, obviously is so important in our league that, you know, obviously a tremendous talent, tremendous player. How do you defend him? The presence defensively at the rim, I mean, it's just, it's so, it's so altering. You just, in this series, you just see it so clearly. But how do you defend him? Because Rudy Gobert can't guard him. And I was curious,

if there's maybe a creative way to defend him that you haven't seen yet. Well, I'm working. We're working on C-Saint now. I want to give away our scouting secrets yet, but, you know, he's obviously like any of these guys who are the better players in the league. You can't do it by yourself. It's a whole team effort to do this, to guard these guys in this league. And he's one of those guys. I thought the other night, DeSumo, actually was guarding him on a couple of possessions, and I wondered whether or not a smaller player actually might give him more of a problem, especially if he's not on the low block. But it's hard to put the ball on the floor as a

seven-foot-five guy against a six-three guy versus, you know, another seven-footer and go bear. Did you notice that? And I'm curious as to what you thought. Yeah, obviously, I'm not going to give it too much of that stuff. But I think, you know, But I think one thing in this league is that you need to be good, you need versatile players to be good offensively and defensively, too, is that can you have versatility to give, you know, teams different? That's probably an example of that. I'm not asking you to give away next year's finals secret, you know. I'm not asking you to, I would love it if you were holding back for next year and how you were going to have Anthony Davis or Balakulah,

Bolly or maybe Bob Guard Wemby in the finals. What's been the best part for you or what's been the most entertaining part of these playoffs so far for you? You know, obviously I'm a fan of the game and I can watch it from that lens, but I'm also

a coach at heart. So, you know, there's always stuff to learn stylistically, how people are playing. You know, offensive things are running, you know, defensive schemes, that type of stuff. So there's always, the playoffs is obviously the intensity level, the focus level goes up, the game planning.

You're playing a team, you know, night after night, pretty much. And you really can walk into stuff. So it's fun for me to see the strategic part and seeing how teams are doing things. You know, you just gave an example of something. So, like, it's always fun, and there's always something to learn. The playoffs are an amazing time. in our business, and that's a place that we want to grow and be into, but for me, there's a lot

to learn from by watching and studying it. Yeah, no, I can imagine. I mean, I think it's one of, I think it's the, I think it's such an underrated product. And I say that just because I, you know, I do a show and I provide content in a town where obviously the football team is number one and people obsess, you know, over, you know, the backup, you know, left guard. and yet this is so much fun to watch. And I've said often, and I wonder if you would agree with this or not,

I don't know that there's a bigger disparity in any of the four major sports between the regular season and the postseason like there is in the NBA. That's a good question. I'm a sports fan. I wouldn't know the answer to that. But yeah, the level of play and the focus level goes way up. up for sure. And it's a great time of year. I've obviously been involved in a lot of series and a lot of high-level games myself. So it's awesome to watch. Hopefully next year, we won't be talking

about any kind of lottery. We'll be talking about a second round playoff series. I look forward to those days and wish you the best of luck in the coming year. It'll be a much different year and one in which I think, you know, a lot of us will be anticipating it. Thanks so much for doing this and enjoy the next month plus. Yeah, I appreciate that. Nice chatting with you and we'll speak soon. Brian Keefe, everybody, the head coach of the Washington Wizards. Up next, Mike Genetti from Spot Track,

he'll tell us what a Stefan Diggs contract might look like and clear up some things about Brandon Ayuk's contract. That's next, after these are. words from a few of our sponsors. This time of the year always makes me rethink what's in my closet. I'm trying to keep fewer things, but better ones, pieces that are well made and easy to wear all the time. That's why I keep coming back to quince. The fabrics feel elevated, the fits are thoughtful, and the pricing actually makes sense. Quince makes high quality everyday essentials using premium materials

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nobody does it better than SpotTrack, not only for the NFL, which we reference a lot, but for the NBA, Major League Baseball, the NHL, the WNBA, and a lot of other leagues as well. At SpotTrack, and it's SPOTRAC on X. I would urge you to give Mike and Spot Track a follow. So I'm reaching out to you today. I texted you earlier.

when I was on radio, because I had a caller say to me, look, the narrative on Brandon Ayyuk that the reason that no one wants to trade for him is they don't want to inherit, you know, an onerous base salary contract seems to be a bit off because it looks like his actual base salary in 2026 is $1.2 something million. And I said, well, I'll reach out to Mike and see what he thinks. So that has been the narrative. It's essentially been something that everybody's been talking about, which is, if you're interested in IYuk, wait for the 49ers to release him. And that way, A, you don't give up any draft pick, you know, compensation.

And B, he's an undrafted, he's an unrestricted free agent, and you can deliver or negotiate, you know, a one-year prove-it deal with him. tell me what his contract says and what you think might happen with iuk. Yeah, so along with that $1.2 million base salary is about $26 million more in Roger bonuses, option bonuses, all those bells and whistles that come with NFL contracts, which are seemingly hard to understand at times. So it's a $27 million payout this year. However, none of that is guaranteed. None of nothing going forward because of his issues with the 49ers and eventual suspension

are guaranteed anymore. So while you are inheriting a contract that has, you know, finances to it, it is essentially an open book that you can, as long as the player in Asia or not on board, and maybe that's what the hang-up is with some of these scenarios, you can sort of move things around, start over from scratch, we'll see kind of where that lands. But I do think your first point is still the best-the-best point, which is there are 31 teams just waiting this situation out.

They want the 49ers to June 2nd after, you know, the cap split can come into fruition. They want the 49ers to outright release them so that they can set their market with this player because I do think it's a limited market and the teams that are interested want to come way down on where that cost currently is, which is about $3 for $85 million total remaining on this contract. Okay, so that's what's remaining on the contract. But what you're saying is that none of it is guaranteed. Absolutely, right? The suspension void, it all guaranteed.

So even the $27 million this year, the option bonus that has to be exercised by September 1st, all these things that you might be seeing or hearing, it's all kind of null and void because none of it, they could walk away from this thing right now, the new team that inherits this contract for $0. That's just the way this works. So I guess the only caveat is, and if I'm playing agent for a second here, if somebody's willing to trade for Brandon IUC, aren't they willing to pay Brandon IUke what the contract currently says?

Now, maybe that's, you know, wishful thinking from an agent's standpoint, but it is something I think some teams are considering, which is we don't want him at 27 this year because of the risk that might come with it. But I do think there are teams like Washington and New England specifically that are still in the market for this type of player and are considering some sort of acquisitions and then restructure along with it. All right. So one thing that I want to make sure I've got right is regardless of what the base salary says on your site for 2026, all of the other, like obviously if you claimed him, if you signed him, I'm sorry, if you traded for him and you inherited this contract, what you're saying is unless you restructure it and the player decides to do it and the agent decides to do it to turn it into something.

something that's more team friendly, you are on the hook if he ends up playing the 2026 season for 27 million for that year? As it stands, that's exactly right. Just wanted to make sure that. Initially, that's initially what you're saying out loud. Now, if you cut him because he became a pain in the ass in November, you'd be off the hook for whatever you hadn't paid him in base salary at that point. That's right.

And also just to be clear, if you did trade for him, the rest of his contract, which you are inheriting, if you don't restructure to something that's favorable for both parties, you are on the hook for the rest of the contract, but the rest of the contract isn't guaranteed, which means if you cut him loose before 2027, you wouldn't know him any money, even though he'd be due, you know, somewhere in the neighborhood of 27 million in base. salary. If he doesn't play, he doesn't get it. It's exactly right. Okay. So it's sort of a very low risk from a team standpoint. But, you know, you could also spin it the other way. If he comes in and works out, you got him for three years. And you sort of own the control and that that side of the business as well. So there is a little bit of a silver lining with acquiring a player with term in this regard.

Yeah, I think the reason that a lot of the NFL guys that cover the leagues say nobody's going a trade forum is that they don't, what you just said would obviously be the best case, but given his recent history of having somewhere in the neighborhood of 30 to 40 million dollars guaranteed dollars voided, which by the way, the last time I talked to you, I think we talked about this, without a fight, which is really unprecedented, right? Like, he isn't pushing for it. The NFLPA isn't pushing for it. like they've just accepted the voiding of somewhere between 30 and 40 million dollars of that

contract that he signed back in in 2024. It's somewhat unprecedented. We're talking single-digit scenarios where this is the case where it's gone sort of so bad on one side that both parties just have to throw their hands up and say, look, this is obviously not going to work. So we're taking every measure we can take, including some of that signing bonus back as well, which is probably in the work since we speak. So yeah, it's all been hashed out from that regard.

There's no further litigation on it. It's simply where do we go from here from a career standpoint. So the path that people have described is you wait for him to get released and then you negotiate a one-year prove-it deal. That that is the safest thing for the team. They don't give up any draft compensation. They're not taking on a $27 million number. if he ended up playing the entirety of 2026.

The upside that you described is an interesting way to look at it, that actually if you inherited the contract, he's under contract through the 2028 season, but that's assuming everything goes well, and it could go well. I mean, you're not bringing them on with the idea that it's not going to go well, but is it still your best guess that the path that a team is going to try to take with him, let's just say it's Washington, is to sign him as a free agent and create a one-year prove-it deal?

My guess. Yeah, that's still the top of the leader in the clubhouse in terms of how this all shakes out. And the reason that simply isn't happening yet is, like I said, San Francisco probably wants to wait until that June 1st date for their own cap purposes to move on from this contract. And then we'll see the situation unfold. but you know what happens risk-wise when that happens, which is what if there's 5-16s involved, you know?

Yes. And the price goes up a little bit. Generally speaking, we don't see bidding wars in June, July, in the NFL, even with players like this that have obviously big upside, but there's always that risk. But you're going to have to go a little bit north of where you want to be. I don't think it gets back to $27 million for $226. Well, I'll ask you what you think it looks like here in a moment,

but, you know, you brought up this June 1 number, and it's been reported that the 49ers literally don't have to cut him a check for anything until September 1st. And I would assume that's some sort of roster bonus or some sort of bonus that would be payable to him on September 1st if he's on the final roster. So therefore, the possibility does exist that they could hold on to him until August 31st and cut him then. Why would they want to do him or any of their competitors a favor? There's no question. That could be the case. I think I mentioned that last time we talked.

Yes, you did. There's probably some internal strife between the front office and the situation. And rather than see him go exactly where he wants to go seemingly at a good price, you can play the long game. That September 1st is a $25 million option bonus. So obviously they're not paying that. The 49ers aren't going to let it get to that point. they could let it run up pretty close, that's for sure.

What does a one-year prove-it deal look like? You know, it's really tough. I can tell you what the math says, and the math the cast kind of gets thrown out the window here because there's demand, there's teams that need this, and there's there's upset. This has been a player that has shown that he can be, you know, a fringe number one at times. I'm just going to cut this in half.

The math says about 12, 12-and-a-half, according to our model. I think at some point in time you just started about 13 to 14 with incentives to maybe get it all the way up to 20. And I know that sounds high for a June unrestricted free agent, but that's a third of the going rate of where his ceiling could be production-wise in 2026.

And I don't think you're breaking anybody's bank in terms of cap and cash by doing that. So I'm going to keep it in between, you know, around the 12 to 15 mark, which is where our math sort of says it should be. and I wouldn't be surprised if somebody comes in much, much higher because you tell me four to five teams are involved. Wow. Stefan Diggs, do you think there's a market form?

And if so, what does his next deal look like? Yeah, it's a bumpy road there. But this is one of those guys that sort of, whether it's self-induced or, you know, from injury perspective, has always sort of bounced back and been the exact player that said team that signed him is asking to be. There's a lot to that, despite his injury. age and what's going on around him right now. We've got him priced exactly with Iyuk here. You know, he's still a $13 to $15 million player,

even on a one-year luck on a one-year guarantee. It kind of feels like that Cooper Cup situation in Seattle where, you know, we know we're kind of overpaying a little bit for that whole, for what, you know, he's going to provide for us, but there's a moment in a season if things are going well that he's going to be the guy we're looking to. That's exactly what digs can be and has been for, multiple teams now. So again, in that 12 to 15 range on a one-year deal, and you throw some

incentives in there, which he's had tons of incentives throughout his career that have sort of self-motivated him through the dog days of the season. Do you think there's an active and, you know, sizable market for him in terms of number of teams? I'd probably put these two players pretty close together. I think the teams that need it are looking at these two players, specifically right now. Maybe there's a couple of names on the trade block that are in conjunction with it. But yeah, I'd say there's probably four to five teams monitoring both of these scenarios with IU having the slight favor because of age and maybe ability.

But yeah, I put this all into one big basket right now in terms of teams that are at least a fringe WR2 need right now. What will the Patriots give the Eagles for A.J. Brown? Yeah, I'm really hoping that some of the speculation I'm seeing comes to the forefront, which is they are not the only team involved. In fact, I'm not going to be surprised if after San Francisco does something with Brandon Ayuk, that they are not all of a sudden involved in the AJ Brown sweepstakes. So when that becomes the situation, maybe this is being agent-driven, you know, that's a big part of it,

but I do think they will get that first-round pick from somebody before it's all set. done. It may not be a 27 because those seem like gold right now. But if it's a 28 first-round pick, I don't think I'm overly surprised at the end of the day here. All right, let's finish up with this, Bies, I'm interested in your thoughts because I know how much you are following the NBA playoffs, and I want to project to July and talk about LeBron James. Where do you think, assuming LeBron plays, and I think he will next year, where do you think LeBron James lands and what kind of contract does he get as an unrestricted free agent? He's kind of got, you know, card blanche in front of him.

Honestly, he's going to be an unrestricted free agent, which, you know, he's allowed himself to be a few times now and has sort of played his cards properly. You know, I've got a lot of people smarter than me come on to my podcast or get into my face and basically say, you know, it's Cleveland or it's Golden State and sure, I understand the past. I just don't know why. I mean, I'm thinking personal, right? Maybe you can do.

as a 40-something-year-old, the last thing I want to do is uproot my life price. I can't imagine that whether, you know, they're certainly not for money reasons. I don't think it for family reasons. I just think, you know, you're probably walking back to the Lakers and saying, if 50 million sound good, let's do a one-year plus a one-year player option because I'm still, you know, kind of going out there doing my thing. I don't know that, you know, trying to dishevel another team and another roster right now to fit him in at around the $48 to $52 million mark is really the course of action for a player,

you know, heading towards his twilight here. So I think it's Lakers robust and I'd put the price point at around $50 for one year. Thanks for doing this, Mike. As always, really appreciate it. Mike Genetti from Spottrack, everybody. And just to summarize what he said about Brandon Ayuk and his contract, as a practical matter, anybody that trades for Brandon Ayyuk is going to pay him $27 plus million in 2026. Of course, there's a possibility that you could cut him at some point during the season and not owe him the difference between, say, the first eight weeks of the season and the final nine weeks of the season if you cut him at the midway point.

But more likely than not, if you trade for Brandon Ayuk, he's going to be on your roster, he's going to play for you, in 2026, and it's going to cost you 27 plus million dollars. And that's the reason, I think, teams are waiting for him to get released, because if he gets released, then he is an unrestricted free agent, and you negotiate on a completely new deal. Now, is it possible that if you traded for him, he and his agent would be open to renegotiating his current deal for something a lot less. I guess it's possible. But I don't know that teams want to take that risk. That's why they are waiting for him to get released versus giving up a pick and assuming his current contract, which would cost a team $27 million next year, even though the final two years of his deal wouldn't be

guaranteed and you could cut him loose after 2026 and not owe him anything. The dead cap money actually is absorbed by San Francisco. But if you do the math on this, so let's just say that you, that Mike Janetti is right, that his price is going to be somewhere between $12 and $15 million base salary with incentives that may push it to $20 million for a year. Well, if you trade for him and you're going to pay him $27 million, you know, that's a $7 million difference for not having to compete with anybody else when he becomes a free agent, if he becomes a free agent. You got to get up a, give up a seventh rounder, or maybe swap a sixth for a seventh or something like that. But the money difference, if Mike is right on what IUC might get, even though some of that would be through

incentives, maybe it is worth trading for him and getting him in sooner and not competing with other teams. There's a lot that's possible between now and the beginning of the season. I still think, like Mike thinks, the most likely possibility is he's released and then a team signs him, a team like maybe Washington. All right, that's it for the day, back tomorrow with Tommy.