The Kevin Sheehan Show - Wizards In Full Tank + Early Commanders' 53

Episode Date: June 27, 2024

Kevin opened with the Wizards' draft night which included a big trade and three first-round picks as they continue to look way down the road. Ben Standig/The Athletic jumped on with his thoughts on the Wizards' draft night plus he stuck around to talk Commanders which included his take on the latest front-office moves and his just-released "all-too-early" 53-man offensive roster projection. Download the PrizePicks app today and use code Sheehan for a first deposit match up to $100! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it, but you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheon Show. Here's Kevin. With the second pick in the 2024 NBA draft, the Washington Wizards select Alex Tsar from Toulouse, France, overtime in lead, and Australia's Perth Wildcaps of the NBL.

Yes, the Wizards took the guy that everybody said they would take Alex Tsar, the French seven-foot big man at number two overall. They also made a big trade last night and took two more players in the first round for a total of three first round picks on night one of the NBA draft. A night that emphasized just how much the Wizards want to stink next year, the year after that, and maybe the year after that. Yeah, they're not going to be good for a long time. They are in full tank mode. Last night, certainly was another reminder of where they are as a franchise. Not that I'm against it. I'm actually for it. Much more on that coming up in a few minutes. The show's presenting sponsor is, as always, Wind Donation. Give them a call at 86690 Nation or head to

windonation.com. Mention my name for a free, no obligation in-home estimate. Ben Standing will be on the show with me today. We'll talk wizards. He covered the Wizards for years before taking the job he has now, which is to cover the football team for the athletic. We will talk commanders with Ben as well. We'll talk front office changes. And Ben also has put out a 53-man projection on the roster,

all too early, I would suggest. But he's put it out for the offensive side of the ball. We'll talk about that with Ben as well. A couple of emails and tweets to start the show. This from Jeff. Jeff writes, hi, Kevin. I'm from central Pennsylvania, and I attended the card show Cooley had last weekend to see Chris and get an autograph.

I was one of the people that asked Chris if you were there. I actually was walking around the show looking for you before Chris's appearance. I listened to your podcast most every day while getting my five-mile walk-in. Good for you. Jeff. Chris's line was one of the longer lines of the day. Hope to meet you someday. Although we don't always agree, I do respect your opinions. Thank you for that. Yeah, I took Cooley last weekend out to the card show in Chantilly. That's why he was in town. And I did not go in. I actually almost decided to go in. I hung out in the parking lot for a little while, and I was on my phone answering messages

and reading emails. And I think I actually told him, yeah, I might come in. I'm just going to get caught up on a few things first because he went into the Dallas Expo Center, I think, like an hour before the card show started. And then I just decided to bail. I'm not a big card person. I'm not a big jersey person. I'm not a big autograph person when it comes to, you know, players and, you know,

players that I really like and admire. I can't remember the last time I owned a jersey. It's been a long, long time. I've never owned a jersey as an adult. I know I had jerseys when I was a kid. Those were the ones that came in the box with the helmet, the shoulder pads. They weren't exactly replicas. I think the first jersey I ever had was a number 9 or a number 43

and maybe even number 55. That would be Handberger, Larry Brown, Sunny Jurgensen. I did have cards as a kid. I had a baseball card collection and I had a football card collection. And without going into much detail, I do not have those cards anymore. The reason I don't have those cards anymore involves a garage sale, and my mother. I'll leave it at that. Needless to say that at 17 or 18 years old, whenever those cards were no longer available to me, where I could no longer find them when I was looking for them

one day, I was not happy. I can only imagine what some of those cards would be worth. This from Ancour. Ancourt writes, Kevin, yes, Cooley was sitting next to. to Trevor Lawrence. Ryan Carrigan was there too. Orioles Rick Dempsey and Raphael Palmero were there as well. You can see the entire lineup at cSA shows.com. The next show is October 18th through the 20th. Yeah, Cooley just casually mentioned on the show Monday that he thought he was at a table next to Trevor Lawrence. And I said, well, what do you mean? You thought. And he said, well, I think it was. Trevor Lawrence. And I said, well, don't you know what Trevor Lawrence looks like? Like, Trevor Lawrence is really not mistaken for anybody else. He certainly has a unique look and

Trevor Lawrence is a recognizable face for pretty much any sports fan. And then he did admit, yeah, I'm pretty sure it was Trevor Lawrence. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was Trevor Lawrence. He did not mention that Ryan Carrigan was there as well. They played together, obviously. for many years. This from Deepak. Deepak writes, Kevin, you always talk about how no NBA team in the last 20 to 25 years, it's 20 actually,

has won a title without having a top five player on their roster, except for the 2003 Pistons. I think it was actually the 2004 Pistons. Do you think the Celtics have a top five player? And if so, who is it? We had this conversation when they, closed Dallas out. I don't consider Jason Tatum or Jalen Brown a top five player, but Jason Tatum is a debatable top five player. He has been an all-NBA first team selection three years in a row. Now, what's

interesting about that is he has not been even close to an MVP. I think the best he's finished. We went through this the other day. If my memory serves me, it was fourth was his best finish. I personally don't view Jason Tatum as a top five guy. He's not far outside of the top five, but in terms of keeping up with this run since the 2004 Pistons of having a debatable top five player on your roster, you could debate, you know, and you could make a good case

that Jason Tatum is top five. I don't think he is, but I understand the case that can be made. And you start with it's three consecutive years of him being a first team all NBA selection. That means he's been one of the top five players the last three seasons per that vote. This from Linwood. Linwood writes, Kevin, the time has come for you to apologize to those of us who you call called idiotic, dumb, stupid, etc. For not wanting the commanders to trade for either Aaron Rogers, Russell Wilson, or Deshawn Watson.

By the way, I would remind you, Linwood, that it was not the commanders that I advocated trade for Aaron Rogers, Russell Wilson, or Deshawn Watson. It would have been the Redskins and or the Washington football team. Anyway, Linwood continues. and you can't call the results going in our favor blind luck. It's actually played out exactly the way guys like myself said it would. Aaron's too old, brings tons of baggage with him. Russell Wilson is washed and not worth the money. To get Watson, you'll have to mortgage your future, and we don't have the roster for that.

Tell me which part of that is wrong now. Not only did we dodge three bullets, but we would not have had the draft capital or the cap flexibility we had going into this off-season, and we definitely wouldn't have been in position to draft the guy you and I wanted. That would be Jaden Daniels. I'll fall short of returning the idiot label and just say it's time for an apology. I apologize. But Linwood, that's fine, okay?

But I hope it's okay that you and many others apologize for me wanting Kirk Cousins to get paid when the team had a chance, or trying harder to trade for a guy like Matt Stafford, or, you know, ridiculing me for my takes on Taylor Heineke, Carson Wentz, Sam Howe, Eric Beennamy, just recently. We could play this game, Linwood, all day long. We all have opinions. We're right on some, we're wrong on others.

and it will continue to be that way. By the way, to be like accurate here, the Russell Wilson thing would have been a disaster for sure, but just to point out, they went after Russell Wilson. Their offer, it was reported, was actually bigger and better than the Denver offer, but Schneider didn't want to trade him in the conference. and Wilson and his wife wanted to stay closer to the West Coast. Now he's back east or, you know, somewhat a lot further east.

But Washington tried very hard. To me, the jury is still way out on Aaron Rogers. It's not so much out on Deshawn Watson. I have to, you know, concede that, whatever, what it would have cost. And remember, I wasn't advocating for it once all of the personal. stuff happened because I thought this would have been the absolute disaster organization for Deshawn Watson to come to. It was long before Deshawn Watson had all the personal problems and we found out, you know, what kind of person he was, or at least then. And, you know, the truth of all of this

is that anybody that came into this organization with any star power or name recognition with the last owner here would have never worked, you know, because that owner would have been, as he was, with previous players, more interested in having a new best friend than having a great quarterback lead his team. So we were always going to be sunk. You know, we were always suspending reality to have the conversations. But yeah, no, you're right. Russell Wilson, really out of those would have been a disaster. I still think Aaron Rogers, if he's stays healthy. I think the Jets are going to be really good. The bottom line is all of the conversation about quarterbacks over the years have, you know, really centered on the fact that this franchise

hasn't had one since they let you know who, as Galdi would say, Kirk Cousins leave. I would have traded Kirk Cousins once I decided I wasn't going to make him a legitimate offer. You know that as well. But I wanted them to aggressively pursue and pay Kirk Cousins. And since then, And, you know, they've been so bad. And with this owner, the only way to even have a chance was to somehow land on a big-time quarterback. But thank you, Linwood, for the email. Don't forget to rate us and review us if you get an opportunity, especially on Apple and Spotify. We're super high on the Apple charts because of so many of your reviews and reviews.

ratings, and it's really big for us, especially over the summer, when, you know, listening isn't as intense. And I appreciate that. I understand that this show focuses, you know, much more on football and football season or off-season football more than it does anything else, although we're going to talk a lot about the Wizards on the show today. But it really helps us as we're heading into football season if you rate us and review us on Apple. They allow you to give us five stars and write a quick one to two sentence review. Spotify allows you to rate us up to five stars as well. Both platforms allow you to follow the podcast, which is really important for us as well. Subscribing to the show is also a big, big help. All of these things just allow us to go out and

generate the advertising support to continue to do this. So if you get a moment, you can even pause the podcast right now, and you haven't rated or reviewed us. Just do it on Apple or Spotify if you want to. It helps us. So the Wizards last night. Man, you know, the draft night for the Washington Wizards was an active one. A big trade, another trade in terms of.

of moving up a couple of spots. Three first round selections. They've never made as a franchise three first round selections before. Let me describe last night in two words. There are many ways to describe last night, but I'm going to describe last night in these two words. Cooper Flagg. Cooper Flagg is a 6-9-inch, 205-pound high.

skilled, versatile player who is headed to Duke next year for one season of college basketball. He was named by multiple outlets this past season as the high school player of the year. He played at Montverde Academy in Florida. He actually is from Maine. He is the consensus number one pick in next year's NBA draft as a. of now in a draft that is much more loaded, at least the perception of it, the analysis of it, than the one last night. He's a player that is thought to have and possess the talent to be a major franchise altering player, a franchise changer. And the Wizards made it very clear last night

that they are doing their best to be in position to take him next June. In the lead up to next year's draft, they are loading up on super young players, high risk, high reward players. They've been in the process of doing that for a while now. And in the process of doing that last night, there was a big surprise. They parted ways with Denny Avdia. They traded him to Portland. I was very surprised about that.

More on that in a moment. But that move kicked off a night that landed the Wizards three players in the first round, including Alex Saar, and a bunch of future draft picks. Last night was about the way-out future. It was an understanding that they are, you know, two years. years away from maybe being two years away. You know, I think that's the saying. Whatever the saying is, it adds up to four years of some bad basketball ahead of us

before we begin to find out whether or not the moves they're making now actually paid off. Let's go through what they did last night. So, first thing they did is they traded Dennyov Diyadhia to Portland. I've been a big Denny Avdia fan. If you've been listening to the show, you know that. I think even before this year, which was a breakout year, I've been talking about him the last couple of years as a guy that I really like, in part because, yeah, he defended, yeah, he had some skill as a big ball handler,

struggled sometimes to score and to shoot it. But one of the things about Avdia, the moment he arrived as a rookie, is he just was one of those guys that when he was on the floor, you could tell that he felt like he belonged. Even at 19 years old, like he felt like he was good enough and deserved to be there. There's always been a confidence level with him, and then he had this skill set that you could see if he was a worker,

and it paid off. And he ended up having some big games, had a 43-point game against New Orleans, where he was 6 of 10 from behind. New York. He just, I think, and I've said this many times, and there's been a lot of pushback to this, I've said recently, I think there's a chance that he will push an All-Star game appearance at some point in his career, not as the elite star top five player, and maybe not even as a number two, but as a major contributor to a good team down the road as a number three guy, yeah, I

see that with him. So they traded him last night. That was a shocker. They traded him to Portland. They got back Malcolm Brogden, who played pretty well for Portland last year. Most of you probably remember him from his days as a Celtic and before that in college at UVA. And they traded Abdea for Brogden, Portland's 14th pick last night, the first round pick that they had last night at number 14. A future 2029 first round. pick and future second round picks as well. So that was the first thing they did. They took a guy that had value, had years left on a contract that they just extended last year, had just come off his best season as a pro, 23 years old, and they probably said, look, by the time we're

actually ready to win 45 games, he's going to be 28, 29, and we will have had to pay him again. And he might only be the third or fourth best player on that team at the time. that point. We can strike now, add some assets, pick a player that we really like, and I'll get to him in a moment. Did I like the trade? No, I didn't like that Denny Avdia isn't going to be playing for my favorite team anymore, but I get it. I totally get it. He had a lot of value, and they're looking not in the two to three year realm of future discussion, but more like the four, five, six year down the road. which will ultimately lead to something being done at some point with Kyle Kuzma.

You would certainly expect that. I don't know if they could get a ham sandwich for Jordan Poole. But Kuzma will bring back value to the organization at some point as well. So after that, they took Alex Sarr number two overall when the draft got underway. I talked about him yesterday. I like Sarr. He's a seven-foot center, tall, long, skilled. You know, just turned 19 years old, has a big upside.

I said in kind of previewing the likelihood that they would take him that I think he's more skilled offensively than many of the NBA draft analysts sort of wrote and described. I get it on defense. He's a rim protector. He's athletic enough to guard as a four or a five in the pick and roll game. It's not drop coverage. It's not allowing guys to basically go underneath the screen over and over again. He can certainly hedge.

He can move his feet. He can switch. He's got a lot of potential. I like the player. I mean, as much as you can like a 19-year-old that hasn't played, you know, against the kind of competition he's about to face. But I see why people, you know, view him as having major. potential. Then with Portland's 14th pick overall, they took Bob Carrington, a 6-foot-4,

190-pound 18-year-old who played at St. Francis and Baltimore. That place has produced a lot of players in recent years, including Juju Reese at Maryland, including his sister, Angel Reese, who's in the WNBA. Baltimore kid played at Pitt. game for Jeff Capel at Pitt this year. He had a triple double. Only the second player in ACCC history to have a triple double in his very first game. The first one was Dennis Scott. How do I know that? Well, Jeff Capel told me that. Jeff Capel, the head coach at the University of Pittsburgh, was on the radio show to talk about Bob Carrington with me this morning. And man, was he complimentary? Of course, Bob Carrington played for him. But he really had

a lot of specific stuff to talk about. And so Carrington, you know, I spent a lot of time late last night and early this morning watching a lot of Carrington. This dude's got real potential. The Wizards clearly wanted this player. They traded, you know, Denny Avdia for that pick at number 14 overall for this specific player. They got, you know, draft choices as well. But Carrington, by the way, grew like eight inches from high school until college. And what I saw is I saw a kid who's, you know, clearly physically not filled out. Like he's got a long way to go physically with his build. You know, actually Jeff Capel said he

thinks he's still growing. You know, he's 6-4-190-195 now. But one of the things that Capel said, he said, He's super high IQ. He's super competitive, like a lot of these Baltimore kids, always seem to be tough. I loved the way he got separation with the dribble. I loved his shooting motion. He shot 32% for the season. That is super misleading. You know, you'll get people that don't watch the tape or don't watch the games that will just

look at the stat lines and say, yeah, he's not that good of a thing. three-point shooter. Oh, he's got a very, very good stroke. And by the way, can shoot it from distance. And I talked to Jeff Cable about that. He said, oh, yeah, no, this guy's going to be a big-time three-point shooter. And I, you could see that. And he shot it much better late in the year than he did early in his one season, his freshman year. I like the player a lot. I like the potential. it's a projection. He's 18, but he had really good feel in the pick and roll game. He had really kind of clever finishes and good feel around the rim with, you know, sort of a mid-range,

you know, jumper. He had a floater. He was clever around the rim. The one thing that I would say at this point, watching him, it's not like he is an explosive athlete, but I loved the way. he played. And again, 18, who knows. The next thing the Wizards did is they gave up their number 26 pick and their second round pick, which was number 51 tonight, to the Knicks to move up two spots to take Kaishon George, who played at Miami for Laranaga this past season. He's a 6-7, 210-pound wing.

Carrington's a point guard, okay? He is, I'm sure the reason they traded into that spot is the people in the Wizards front office, Winger, Dawkins, etc., believe that Carrington's got a chance to be their point guard, you know, four, five years from now when he's 22, 23 years old and playing at a really high level with other high level players. I mean, they drafted him to be a point guard. I mean, I guess there's a chance. chance they drafted him to be something else. But to me, he handled the ball a ton for Pitt and was very, very effective in that pick and roll game. Could he be an off guard? He could. Could he play with another guy that could handle? Look, there's not even really true point guards anymore. I mean, LeBron's a point guard. I mean, Shea Gilgis Alexander is a point guard. I mean, you know, there are big, it's the way the NBA game is. You search out the matchups, you put the ball in the hands of the guy that you think can score. As far as Kaishan George goes, look, he's another guy that has really good shooting ability.

He's got a big-time stroke. Really looks good when it leaves his fingertips. He's a guy that they also clearly wanted because they traded up two spots to take this player. There was some thought that he slid a bit down the line. board in this draft. But I think, you know, when you take these three players and what they did with Avdia, you add it to what they took last year in Balal Kulibali. What they're doing is they are taking big swings right now on their future. You know, they are taking a swing on Sarr. They're taking a swing on Carington, a swing on George. These guys are young. George's just turned 20. They're

long armed in most cases. I mean, that seems to be a physical trait that they like. They're skilled. You know, two of the three players they took last night are shooters. I actually think SAR is going to be a guy that can space the floor and extend out and shoot it. They are taking big swings. They are stacking the cupboard with draft picks, future draft picks. And bottom line is they are tanking for Cooper Flag in 2025, and they will probably be tanking in 2025 for a guy like Cameron Boozer in the 2026 draft. And that's where I will wrap it up and then we will move on to Ben. The Wizards, in terms of their future draft picks, their 2025 first round pick is protected top 10. If not it goes to the Knicks if it's outside of the top 10. There's no chance the Wizards

are going to end up outside of the top 10 of next year's draft and have to give that pick to the Knicks. That was part of the big trade back when they dealt John Wall to the Rockets. They brought in Russell Westbrook. The Knicks were involved with picks. And the Knicks have the Wizards' 25 first rounder if it's outside of the top 10. And they've got the Wizards 2026 first rounder if it's outside of the top eight. The Wizards are not planning as an organization to have a pick outside of the top 10 next year or outside of the top eight in 2026. They are planning to stink. This is a tank.

Okay, this is what they did last year and this is what they are going to do for the next two seasons because the next two seasons have drafts that have franchise-changing talent at the top of the drafts, at least the way it's perceived. As we know, this draft is the biggest role of the dice in terms of drafts. But Cooper Flagg, who will play at Duke, Ace Bailey, who's part of that incredible Rutgers recruiting class for the upcoming season, Dylan Harper, Ron Harper's other son that's going to Rutgers as well, Nolan Traori, France. These are all guys that are expected to go in the top two to four and be big-time prospects led by flag.

We'll get to watch flag all next year. Unlike the players in this year's drafted the top, the French players, we'll get to watch flag. We'll get to watch Ace Bailey and Dylan Harper next year in college basketball. And then in 2026, Carlos Boozer's son, who will probably, I'm assuming, go to Duke for the 2025, 2025, 2006 season. He's entering his senior year in high school this upcoming year, played on the number

one high school team in America for a while. He and his twin brother are very good players. And Cameron, at 6.9 and 220 right now, is, along with this guy, A.J. DiBanza from California, are thought to be franchise changers. as well. And they'll be at the top of the 2026 draft. Remember that, you know, you have to finish in the bottom three record-wise, and then you are in the highest percentage of odds to snag the number one overall pick. So expect that. Expect them to win again between 15 and 20 games this year and probably next year as well as they try to position themselves for a Cooper flag or a Cameron

Boozer the next two years. And all the while hoping that these big swings that they took last year with Kulibali and they took in three rand and three picks in the first round last night, that, you know, one or two of them hit as well. It's going to be a long time before the Wizards are competing for like a legitimate playoff seat. A long time. All right, Ben Standing next after these words from a few of our sponsors. All right, guys, the NBA finals are over, but we've got a summer of baseball ahead of us.

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I'm a subscriber. He's got his own podcast called Standing Room Only, and he can be followed on Twitter, on X at Ben Standing. So we're going to do two segments with Ben. We're going to talk hoops because Ben covered the Wizards for many, many years, for various publications. And then we'll talk, and then we'll talk, Washington football team, the commanders,

and get Ben's thoughts on some of the recent changes in the front office. And he did a recent 53-man early projection on the roster that we can talk about as well. But I just spent some time talking about what I thought last night was about with the Wizards making three first round selections, trading Denny Avdia. What did you think of the Wizards' night? last night. First off, thanks for having me as always. You know, obviously it's so funny, right?

We have Josh Harrison Town who, you know, greenlit the process for the 76ers, which was a very controversial ploy in which they, you know, really kind of, you know, overtly tanked as much as anybody has ever done so to get, you know, put themselves in position to get as many, to get the best picks possible and then to get other assets and in other ways. And people got upset with that because, you know, how dare you overtly, you know, try not to win games? And they explained it.

That's why it's called the process while we know it, because Sam Hinky, the GM really, you know, disgusted at length. Here's why we're doing this exactly. They weren't hiding it. The wizards are doing the process. If you think they're not is nuts. They are 100% doing the process. They're just not advertising it in that way because I think everybody learned

their lessons from what the Sixers did and that where the criticism came. But what I think last night really said to me, it's not even just that they're doing it in short term. They may not be good for five years. And by that, and I'm not saying that they're doing anything wrong, but the Denny Avvia trade to me was the indicator for that. Because first I was like, wait a minute. Why are you trading him for the 14th pick and what everybody's saying is a really

poor draft, you know, meaning you just don't know who's going to be good. good. And then they get three other draft picks that are not until, you know, 28, 29, and 30, right? That's what, he's only going to be 25 years old in two years. He's on a really good contract, 13 million average annual salary for the NBA. That's a very good deal. He's coming off a year we average, like, I think like 14, 7 and 4, shot over 50% from the field, 37% from 3, is a really good defense. Why are they doing this? And then when you watch the draft, they take a 19-year-old in Alex Sar, an 18-year-old in

Bob Carrington, and then a 20-year-old in Kishan George, plus they have Boral-Kul-Bali, who's 20, and they're positioning themselves to get as high as pick as possible in next year's draft when Cooper flagged who's going to be a freshman to Duke this year and is really viewed as, like, you know,

the guy in next year's draft, along with a few other players are interesting. Like, they're going to be positioned high there, and maybe even the year after that. They are not looking at being good in three years. They're looking good at being in six years. That's why I think they traded Deni Abdiya,

because by the time they see himself being good, he will have to be paid again, basically. And I think this is going to be a long road ahead. Now, it doesn't mean it's, again, I think it's an interesting road. Obviously, we'll see Sarr, in particular, how he develops. You know, he was the number two pick.

I think a lot of the draft insiders thought he could have been, you know, the number one. guy on the board, you know, what is he, 610, very athletic. You know, he's got to put on some weight, and he's very young, but, you know, you can see the athleticism, his ability to not just, you know, rebound and defend the rim, but he can take the ball and dribble up the court and make a play. He can switch and guard the guy's on the perimeter. He has a lot of the traits that everybody wants from that position.

How he develops, you know, that's the big question, of course, but they are not. I'm like arguing, like, I'm like arguing with people on Twitter. Yes, I'm an idiot for arguing with people on Twitter. It's like telling me they're not trying to tank. I'm like, oh, my God, this is as overt as anything I've seen, including the Sixers. And like I said, they're just not calling it anything. And that's why people aren't going to say that. But this is the process verbatim.

And there's no other way about it. Yeah. And I talked about in the open that their 2025 first round, pick is top 10 protected. Their 2026 is top 8 protected as part of the deal that involved the Knicks in the John Wall, Russell, Westbrook deals. So they can't even risk being even marginally good next year or the year

after. No, I'm in complete agreement with you. I said that you know, this is like one of the, I think the saying is we're We're two years away from maybe being two years away. And that math means that there are four more years. There are four more years of some pretty awful basketball ahead for Wizards fans. With all of that said, do you think they're doing it the right way? Oh, yeah, for sure. Look, I mean, it was painful the other day to see, I'm doing my best to get past.

what happened prior to this, you know, Winger and Will Dawkins group getting in here, but like when you see what the Nets were able to get from McHale Bridges, you know, by what, five first round picks, another second and a bunch of stuff, and then you realize how little the

Wither's got for Bradley Biel and how much they screwed this up by not trading him a year or two before they did. Forget, I'm not even mentioning like the no trade cause, it just shows how far behind they are. And that's the real that's the real rub. I mean, Winger has had to, and Dawkins have had to come in and start from under, not just like from scratch,

they'll start from like underground. Like they are so far behind because it's not just the talent, it's the assets. You know, this draft is the, you know, cool body last year for sure, but now this year where they get these three first round picks, they acquire another first round pick from Portland, or we'll see what team is. It depends which they get the second best of Portland. I think they have three for whatever, whatever that number of picks after year. But it's forever everywhere.

But anyway, they have to accumulate more assets. They got a bunch of second-round picks and deals last year. Now they get a little bit more. Now, that's what they need to do because they were given nothing to start with. And that's the route. They were so far behind. So, yeah, they're doing what they need to do. And like I said, for me, I had to sort of get over the surprise of moving Denny.

And, like I said, I don't think it's, only, like, only what, what, what, 15 games last year? Yeah. They weren't going to be winning. Then he wasn't going to be taken under the playoffs with this team, and not to mention who, you know, I'm not even saying he's a top three or four guy on a really good team, but it's like, wait, why would you trade this guy? But that, I think is why.

So I don't really have an issue with what they're doing. It's just settling. And, you know, again, we've, if you've been a fan of this team, you haven't seen consistently good winning basketball for 40 years. years or so. And other than a couple of pockets with Chris Weber, Gilbert Arenas, and the John Walt Bradley Biel area, it's been really bleak. This is going to be that as well.

The difference you hope is it's now intriguing to watch these younger guys develop, right? I mean, in five years, Alex Sar will be 24. Bob Carrington will be 23. You know, Kula Bali, you know, about the same 24. So these guys will still be very young five years from now at a point. where, you know, hey, they get lucky and they get a Cooper flag or at least another top two or three player next year. You know, now this is how what we've seen like with the Oklahoma City Thunder, how they've started to turn things around, going from a perennial lottery.

You know, they lose Durant, Westbrook Hardin, they had to start over, they trade Paul George, they get a bunch of picks. And from that, they are now a team that was the one seed last year in the West and has an insane amount of draft picks and assets moving forward with a really young roster, but it took a while. And that is where this is. So at least, though, again, it's not like playing for the 8th seed as the they did for so long under Leontas. Now it's, all right, let's see. How much improvement does Alex Starr make over the next few years and these other guys as well?

So it is a – I'm fine with the way they're doing it. Obviously, the players have to turn out. But like I said, just get ready to – get ready to be patient. Yeah. How do you think Ted's dealing with this? I mean, because, you know, we criticize Ted a lot for his ownership of this team. I mean, you reminded me, and I didn't even mention it, just how long and how absolutely awful it was that they waited that long to trade Bradley Beale. They really missed out on a huge opportunity, and they would have had many more assets moving forward.

But, you know, Ted had to sign off on this. He's hiring, you know, he hired all these guys, Winger and Dawkins. and recently Troy Weaver, et cetera, do you give him some credit for, you know, sitting back and saying, yeah, 2029? Because you just laid it out. You know, five years from now, the guys that they just drafted in Kulibali will be, you know, between 23 and 25 years old.

And then you hope that Cooper Flagg, and or, you know, Cameron Boozer, or, you know, somebody else that potentially they're able to pick, you know, the Ace Bailey kid that's going to Rutgers, that they land on a franchise changer, who at that point is also like just 22. And now it's 2029. We're ready to roll.

We're ready to compete. I mean, because it's going to take that long. It'll take that long if one of the players they have selected already these last two years isn't the next Janus or the next Yokic. You know, if you're, counting on the franchise changer to come out of next year's draft or 2026. But go ahead. Right. And ultimately, somebody here has to turn into something. And look, they can make, it doesn't just have to be the draft picks. You know, Shea Gildes-A Alexander is the best player

on OKC with an MVP candidate this year. He came over and it's trade with the clippers, right, for Paul George. So, you know, that's the thing I, you know, they're not done yet this off season, and write a free agency's coming up. What I would like to see is, you know, can they find ways to take on somebody's bad contract, which they kind of did with Malcolm Brogden yesterday, sort of. But take on somebody's bad contract, get them out more at that's for it, or shift things around and, you know, acquire more picks to then send it out somewhere to get, you know, a younger, up-and-comer or maybe even a quasi-veteran who's, you know, can grow with the team.

all those things are in play. So, you know, in terms of Ted, like I said, if I do my best to have a Serenity Now moment and just put the past is the past, they're here now. I would love to know what finally said to him, and up was enough about the insanity that he was doing for so many years. But, yes, they are now heading in this direction. I mean, look, he's already won in the sense that, you know,

he got that money from D.C. to refer rubbish cap one. He thought, you know, the, I think the thing that was never said, and this is my interpretation, when he was trying to go to Virginia, that state he wasn't going to be built for a few years. So it was a perfect time to start over, right? Have the team rebuilding while you're in the bad, in the old arena, get to the new arena, and now it's light camera action for this younger group. Now, it didn't happen that way, but he's already gotten the money to rebuild cap one, to it will be, you know, quasi as the same thing. once they can say, hey, here's Cap One, looking great,

now come watch our young guys. You know, I think he's already won, so, you know, sure, it's going to take some time. And plus, I think also the thing about a rebuild is, if you do it the right way and you have young pieces, people will want to go see that, right? I mean, you know, I don't know how many season tickets are people buying to go watch Alex Saar and Bub Carrington today,

but, you know, everybody would rather watch that then, you know, what's been going on here for the last few years? Because at least it's interesting. There's hope, and hope is a good thing. We're seeing this with the commanders right now. I don't know how many wins they're going to have this here. But Jayden Daniels brings hope. They have a fun young class, et cetera.

They're doing things, I would say, the right way. The results will see. So, you know, he should be fine. I don't want to hear anything else from him if he's not. But, you know, yes, I have no real issue with what they're doing. And, you know, for him to have signed off it finally, finally, you know, it was needed. No, I actually think, like, unlike this past season when we knew that they were terrible

and we knew that they would end up with a very high draft choice, but there weren't players, you know, Rissachet and Saar, et cetera, that were potential franchise changers. Next year, you're going to be able to watch Cooper Flag at Duke all season long and hope that Washington ends up with the number one pick. They got to finish in the bottom three to be in that equal. odds opportunity to get the top pick overall when we get to draft lottery night. But there are other players. I mean, there's a lot of thought that a guy like Ace Bailey from Rutgers or even Dylan Harper from Rutgers, I'm mentioning Rutgers, and I talked about this in the open, but

they just had an outrageous recruiting year, obviously came up with some NIL money. But, you know, you'll be able to see Cooper Flag. We didn't get to see Rissachay or Sarr, and there wasn't as much publicity. Going into 2026, we're going to have a chance to see, you know, potentially Cameron Boozer, who I'm guessing will go to Duke next year. I mean, I'm assuming in 2020, in 2025, 2026 season he'll be at Duke. So yeah, and all the while, seeing if maybe they struck gold with Sarr or Carrington or George or Kulibali from last year. Yeah, I mean, but Ben's 100% right. Like if you're a Wizards fan, a Lifelong Bullets Wizards fan,

they're going to suck again this year and next year. And it's going to be every bit of four to five years before you can come up for air and say, all right, this team's got a chance to make the postseason, you know, and then maybe a year or two after that a legitimate chance to contend. I mean, we're talking about 2030 and, you know, maybe a year earlier, maybe a year later, and there's no guarantee that this will work out. But we're not going to know for four years whether or not their strategy is working out or not. And here's the other thing. We're talking about the assets that we know, we know.

right now, these draft picks that they just made the ones they have in the bank. You know, they have Malcolm Brogden. I presume he's either going to get traded in the next few weeks or by the trade deadline last year. He was actually fairly good for Portland. And, you know, some veteran team could probably use him if they want to make a playoff push. But, you know, the Wizards also need some adults in the room. They can't just have all the kids who aren't even of legal drinking age yet out there.

They have to, you know, help learn from somebody, somebody to tell you, the pressure off them. So somebody will be around it. But, so Brogden is something, but then you have Kyle Kuzma. Now, that's a real value. He could easily get, but if they're really going to take this thing to the extreme, you know, you should probably look to trade him here in the next few days when the free agency starts.

So, I don't know, you know, I don't really want to speculate on what he could bring because NBA trades are so insane. Who knows? But, yeah, that's another deal where you could get a few picks, potentially, or a young player. Kuzma's good. He could score, but he's not. He definitely doesn't meet the timeline for where they're at.

But, you know, they have time. They don't have to move them this year, but I'm just saying that's another asset to do. So, Jordan Poole, he'll be here. I don't believe they're moving his contract anytime soon. So, yeah, I mean, there's more assets to move, and, you know, that only helps them going forward, you know, which is, again, the more assets, the better. But, yeah, this is, you know, this is definitely going to be a minute before, before they get this thing turned around.

Yeah, it's a good point. You can't end up with a bunch of 18 and 19-year-olds on a team. And Kyle Kuzma, by all accounts, is very, very well-liked and highly respected in that organization, which is one of the reasons they didn't deal them at the trade deadline last year. Yeah, there could certainly be some desperation at the trade deadline in 2025. when we get there next year. But yeah, it'll be interesting to see what they do with the rest of the roster. Anything else on the Wizards or the draft in general before we turn the conversation to the football team?

I mean, what a – it's just, you know, I hope they don't have a draft like this in a while where just nobody knows what's going to happen. I also just think the NBA is just out of control right now with all these trades. I mean, that Knicks trade, like I get it from the next. next perspective as to what they're seeing, but, you know, to move all these picks and all these teams are just going all over the place and, you know, the haves and have not, golf is extreme. I don't know. The league has gotten out of hand.

I don't know what they can do about it, but when we talk about, because I think you and I are the same, we're both big NBA guys, but watching the regular season at this point is kind of sure, and for there's a lot of reasons for that, but one of them is, I don't even know who's on what team anymore. they all get moved around. I don't even, you know, when you're talking about these potential trades, you have to be an accountant to understand how an NBA trade works these days with all the salary cap ramifications and one apron and two aprons.

And I think that's the part that it kind of loses the fun. I just want to say, this team needs a center, this team needs young pieces, make a trade. Now it's just stuff. The ramifications are crazy. That's the only part that I get frustrated with. Well, not to mention, they just screw up the presentation of the draft anyway with the trades and not being able to talk about the trades. And, you know, Portland actually picked, you know, Bub Carrington last night, but we knew it was the Wizards pick. It's just the dumbest thing I've ever seen from a, from a, you know, keep it simple, stupid theory standpoint. They just don't keep anything simple.

And to your point, like in the last few years, my God, with the picks that are out there in 2030 and 2029, I mean, last night, Minnesota, San Antonio essentially got an 11-year-old for Rob Dillingham. You know, they got a 2030 first round unprotected. 2031 is protected or it's a swap. It's like they traded a kid who's 11 today for Rob. Rob Dillingham. I'm sorry, the Timberwolves traded an 11-year-old for Rob Dillingham, which, by the way, was my favorite deal of the night because I love the player and I see a potential star in the player, especially just the idea of him and Anthony Edwards in the back court together. But no, you're right. This sport, it'll never turn into what college basketball has turned into.

because college basketball's biggest problem is that it is really masked by the NFL. You really don't know any of the players year to year. You don't know where they are. The NBA still has big-time stars that continue to push it. But, man, there is a massive difference between the regular season product and the postseason product. And then, yeah, they don't make anything really easy to kind of follow with the the roster movement and salary cap and all of the future trades. Like I had to look up just to see specifically what the wizards have in the future.

And that's when I discovered because I had forgotten that their 2025 first rounder next year is protected, top 10 protected, and they're not going to be picking out of the top 10 next year. And 2026 is top 8 protected. So there is a mindset that I'm sure they have, which is, please don't, you know, surprise us in win 36 games. We don't want to do that. Yeah, by the way, like the other, you know, because, you know, you and I are, you know, of the after year when the players that were coming into the draft were guys that had been in

college for multiple years, if not their entire four-year career. Now, when you draft a 19-year-old Alex Carr, and we're saying 2029, that's the point. He'll have a new contract by then. He won't even have necessarily done anything. And same with Kulobali. They're going to have to already make decisions on to extend these guys or not before anything probably even happened. They'll have a sense.

Maybe. I mean, sure, it would be great if they turn into a janitor or, you know, you're seeing that level of development. But they're going to have to already make choices. And that's what's so crazy about this sport of having to pay these guys before they've even done anything. Look, you know, David Falk was on with me a week and a half ago or something like that, and he echoed something that I've said for a long time, which is the value equation of college

athletics for the athlete, which people have pushed, you know, they should be paid and paid big salaries forever. That has never really been quantified is what college sports are as a marketing platform for the players. And by the way, for the sport that they're about to enter. you know, you can make the case that it's worth millions of dollars to players from just an endorsement standpoint to play big-time college basketball, big-time college football, because they are a brand when they enter the NFL or the NBA. I went through, just as you were talking, through the first round last night, the 30 picks. They're basically, I'm a college basketball and an NBA fan. I'm a

college basketball fan and have been a big one forever. I think the average college basketball fan could name seven out of the 30 players that were picked in the first round last night. Seven. I'm going to give them to you right now. Reed Shepard. I think a college basketball fan probably saw Reed Shepard at Kentucky, even though they lost in the first round of the tournament to Oakland.

Castle at Yukon, because they won the national championship. That's two. Klingin at Yukon. They won the national championship. Of course, Zach Eady. So that gets us to four. The next one on the list would be Dalton Connect, who was one of the leading scores in the country at Tennessee. I think people know Tristan DeSilve at Colorado, if you were a college basketball fan. He's been a good player for a couple of years and been in that Tad Boyle program for a while. That's six. and then seven was Terrence Shannon from Illinois. I mean, after that, the college players are limited for starters, and really they were not big names.

I mean, I guarantee you, nine out of ten college basketball fans didn't know who Bub Carrington was and didn't watch him at Pitt last year. Even though Pitt wasn't bad, they finished fourth in the ACC, but they didn't go to the NCAA tournament. Anyway, far different. than what it was, you know, I don't know, maybe 10 years. Maybe we've got to go back 10 years to find drafts with, you know, a lot of recognizable players, maybe even more than that. But, yeah, the NBA, I think, loses by having players that don't have brands when they come into the league. The NFL's going to have that because college football continues to be the feeder.

and college basketball isn't necessarily the feeder to the NBA anymore. Where does Brony go tonight? Do the Lakers take him or does somebody hold Brony hostage before the Lakers pick at 55? I mean, that would be amazing if they did that. And then even like, look, I love the fact that people still pretend that LeBron has no sway and what the Lakers or any team he's ever been on due. They don't think he hiding to do with J.J. Reddick,

the guy he started a podcast with a few months ago that he was the head coach. So, yeah, it would be amazing if the other team says, you know, I remember this story when Steve Spurrier got hired here as the head coach that Charlie Cash really went out and signed Danny Worfell as a free agent off the street knowing that Spurrier wouldn't be able to resist. And then they traded, I think it was like a seventh round pick or something. But they got something knowing that Spurrier couldn't take it and had to get Danny Warful.

So, yeah, it would have the same thing could apply. The Lakers, I just can't believe. I will imagine Hilly on the Lakers one way or the other. That's fine. Wait, you're saying Charlie Casserly did that in Houston? Yeah, sorry. When Catherley was the GM of the Texans, yeah. He purposely signed Wharfill knowing that Spurter wouldn't be able to persist.

I did not know that story. That's interesting. I had no idea. And then I forget, you're saying that Washington traded for Worfell? Yeah, well, I mean, it was like, you know, whatever, a seventh round page or something. Yeah, but still. But, you know. Yeah.

That's funny. Yeah, you're right. Look at this. I didn't know that story. Danny Whirfel was acquired by Houston prior to the 2002 season and then was traded. Hold on. Where is it? It was here a second ago.

I think I have that right. Yeah. They draft. Wait. Okay, Werfel was drafted by Houston in the 2002 expansion draft because they were an expansion team, only to be traded to Washington a week later, reuniting him with college coach Steve Spurrier. It doesn't say, it should say. It was the, how about this? It was the first ever Houston Texans franchise trade, the first one ever.

But for whatever reason, it doesn't say what he was traded for. But I would assume it was, you know, a late, super late round pick. Yeah. I mean, that's, uh, yeah. Oh, he wanted his gators. That's for sure. All right. Let's talk some football with Ben right after these words from a few of our sponsors.

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regarding a medical condition or treatment and before undertaking a new health care regimen, including EE system. This segment of the show brought to you by Window Nation. Window Nation has a few days left with their extended semi-annual sale. That means you've got until June 30th to get 50% off all windows and 0% interest for 5 years. If you schedule your estimate today and mention my name, they'll give you a bonus 10% off. So you'd actually get 60% off your window purchase. If you're tired of paying high air conditioning bills during this heat, it's because you've got older inefficient windows. Trust Wind Donation. Give them the first chance. Call them at 86690

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But before we get to talking some depth chart on June 27th, I haven't talked to you. I think we may have texted back and forth, but just your reaction to some of the front office changes. But the big one, which was Eugene Shen, as they described, transitioning out of the organization. It looks like the Harris Blitzer group will give him a job in their group, but he's no longer going to be part of the group here after they hired Sonsa. What did you make of that? Yeah, you know, obviously first reaction is sort of, whoa, wait a minute,

you only have been here for eight months. You know, when they brought in Rick Spielman to help out with the coaching and the GM search, it was said specifically he's hired the consultant for this. That's it. the relationship will end there. This was not that. So, you know, if this was happening under the previous owner, we'd be going, oh, boy. Oh, yeah.

Yeah, what does this mean? Yeah. But I actually looking at this as a real positive in this regard. Go back to last year. Josh Harris is a first-time NFL owner. He's been an owner, but, you know, to know the mechanics of the NFL, there's a trade deadline coming up, he probably has a feel already. He's going to move on from Ron Rivera and that whole,

group, but, you know, there is a trade deadline coming up. You spoke, you know, the league doesn't stop. So what do you do? I think he wanted fresh perspective, somebody who wasn't already on the staff. And Josh Harris being an analytics guy, landed on an analytics guy to give him some of that. The Shen hire was announced just before they traded Chase Young and Montess sweat. I would imagine that was not coincidental, but these things happened at the same time. And Josh Harris felt he needed that.

So that's good, right? I don't want to the owner who's not done this before, or even if he has done this before, to be the one determining who to trade, you know, et cetera. But then you get, but the thing that was weird was, well, wait, Adam, whoever the new GM is going to be, you know, I guess they're going to be okay with this person, you know, we don't know. So fast forward, Adam Peters gets the job.

He then has his fingerprint over everything. The roster, you can probably even say the coaching staff, certainly the front office and not the front office. broadly. There's a whole new leadership for the pro personnel department. There's new scouts. There's new senior executives with him. He's got a new, you know, eventually get the new cap guy in Brandon Sossna. So the only thing wasn't really touched was the analytics department, except that when Sossna was hired, it said that that's one of the groups he'd be overseeing. Okay, but what does that mean? I mean, is he overseeing it overseeing or is he just, you know,

that something else for him to do. I think, though, that clearly Adam Peters, for whatever the reason, decided, hey, I wanted to do something different here. And so they hired Sossna, and the fact that Josh Harris allowed Shen to move on, let's just say, rather than digging his heels and say, no, this is a guy I hired, I want him to stay. Again, I think that shows a lot of promise for the owner that he didn't pick a fight on this and that

he's letting Adam Peters make his choices. And, you know, that's it. Beyond that, as to why they didn't move on, it moved on from Shen, there could be a lot of different reasons, whether that's philosophy, personality, what have you, but they, you know, did it. So I think it's a positive that Harris needed somebody to help him then, but he wasn't like, you know, digging his heels

as I said now because he made that call and it's his guy and he's his eyes and ears and maybe you know we're looking, giving him a load down on what's going on. They're still in the Kumbai off page for sure. So I took it as a positive. Yeah, I think you just said something there about philosophy, personality. It would not surprise me if some of that was part of this. Look, he was not working in the league when the team. hired him in, you know, in October. He was a derivatives analyst for a global investment firm. It had

been, you know, almost two years since he had been in the league. He was with Jacksonville. They didn't keep them for that long. The dolphins didn't keep them for that long prior to that. It was a very short stint year and a half, two years, tops with both of those groups. And he was with the Ravens for the longest run, but that was kind of in the beginning of teams trying to figure out, you know, what does analytics even mean in this sport, you know? And the Ravens were, you know, kind of ahead of it. But it would not shock me if it was more than just, you know, Adam Peters wanted his guy. But I agree with you. And I said this on yesterday, show or the day before, what's really clear just, I think, in general, from my standpoint. And it's

things we see and then things we also kind of hear is that, This is Adam Peters football operation. You know, he doesn't own the organization. Josh Harris and Mitch Rails and Magic Johnson and, you know, 19 other people do. But they, this is a traditional, you got a football guy running the football operation, and he makes all of the decisions and the big decisions. You know, he doesn't coach the team. Dan Quinn does that.

He doesn't hire the coaching staff. Dan Quinn did that. But he hired Dan Quinn. Quinn. And I'm not saying that Josh Harris isn't involved in these decisions, and they haven't had, you know, their consulting group, the Spielmans and the Bob Myers, et cetera, involved in it. But I'm not concerned about this at all. Eight months, they just hired a guy that was out there and available that they thought might be able to provide them with some help, but clearly he's not Adam Peters's guy. And I love the fact that there's no.

you know, he'll dug in from ownership. And I think that that's one of the things we've learned so far is he's going to let football people run the football organization. Yeah, and I think that to tie that it, it's not just like that it's not his guy, right? I mean, that that, that is a real thing. Especially like we talked about draft. No, right. Adam Peters.

No, it's just that he didn't draft Sam Howe so he's not as wedded to him. But to that point, though, Martin Mayhew, who he had a relationship with, of course, with the 49ers. He stayed. Rob Rogers, that was one of the other announcements the other day, he stayed with a lesser role. I imagine that it's

it just all ties together that Sassna probably will have now even, you know, need to look at the analytics world even more, and now Rob Rogers is still around to help with sort of the day-to-day operational stuff and Sasa can come in and handle when, you know, the bigger picture contract and cap issues, that would be my guess,

why that happened. And Rob Rogers was somebody who, you know, was, I believe Peters did like his work throughout the offseason when they signed over 20 free agents and things like that. So, you know, it's not just that Peters was like, no, it's not my guy get out. It's, hey, does it work? Cool. Let's figure this out. If it doesn't, hey, appreciate your efforts, but we got to go. I know I haven't talked to you about this. I don't think we did it on the radio show either. But what was your reaction to the report that Jason Wright, was a finalist for the Green Bay president's CEO position that went to Ed Policy, the son of Carmen policy.

Well, go ahead. I'll say this. So first off, Green Bay is the definition of a mom and pop organization. I mean, they've been very successful, right? But they don't have an ownership group. They have this, I don't know, what he called? Board of directors. It's, you know, the fed.

It's a publicly held company. A team, yes. Right, right, right. Right. So they're not doing the same way everybody else's, but just like they do with the quarterback, where they're patient, they wait, you know, they are, they have a family,

and it seems, of course, logically they would hire somebody from within. So I'm not surprised that they didn't land somebody from the outside. If they want to ask questions of other people, sure. Why, you know, why not? I imagine they spoke to several people. Jason Wright wouldn't have been just one. But, you know, look, it was one report that came

Matt on this. And it says to me that Jason Wright, look, he's still the president of this team, but his role has obviously been greatly diminished. We don't see him out as much nearly as much. There's now a clear division between the football side and the business side. He doesn't, he's no longer last year, even right, he was supposedly instrumental in helping Eric the enemy come on board. He's not involved in anything over there anymore. So I imagine he's probably thinking, hey, I like, maybe I like my job, but what else is there?

But the fact that it got it out, I don't know. I would get somebody in Jason Wright's universe wanted to let people know that he's had he had an opportunity to talk with somebody else. Who knows what a finalist means? You know, was Glenn Cook a finalist for the GM job here? I mean, I don't know.

I don't think so. So, good for him. But, yeah, I don't put too much into it in terms of, like, you don't look at that job or anything. All right. Well, I mean, I'll just say what I said the other day. I think that there's certainly, you know, a chance that one of the reasons he interviewed for the job, well, one of the reasons is it was a job that technically was a step up.

I mean, it would have been a president's CEO job of an entire organization without an actual owner reporting to a board of directors. And so, you know, that kind of opportunity, I think anybody could appreciate why he might be interested in it. So that is certainly one possibility as to why he interviewed for the job. But the possibility also exists that he senses or knows that the opportunity here isn't forever. Anyway, we move on to your offensive projected depth chart. Give everybody like the hardest part of putting this together. Was there a hard part? Well, first of all, it's insanely too early to do it, but, you know, I got to write something for, you know,

got to keep the people who subscribe, we appreciate that to the athletic, got to give them something. So I went with it. Look, the hard part is I really don't know how much we've learned, frankly, during this last OTA minicam period, because it's so much new and they're keeping so much under wraps and there's no pads and all that. I can't sit here and say for sure that this offensive lineman looks better than that one. This was just a get-to-know-ish-other phase, basically, for the team. So I think that to me was the trickiest part. Beyond that, look, I think that there are particular receiver, tight end, and offensive line.

I think there's questions about what happens at the back end of the depth chart. And I wasn't focused so much on the starting lineups here, but obviously you have to think about that. But I think those were some of the tougher calls. And I just will say broadly without getting into the defense either. We just talked about this with Adam Peters in terms of if it's not your guy, you didn't draft him, and sign them, the allegiance is not there as much. I think we're going to see some familiar names that we would have just written and down in pen that would have made a team if Ron Rivera was still here,

that I suspect may very well not be here for a variety of reasons, including like it's a new regime and they're not tied to these people the same way that the last group was. So give examples of the names that we would have just penciled in had Ron Rivera been here, because I agree with you, and you see this with every regime change. You see, you know, when you cut from 90 to 53, and that's how it works now, at the end of August or the first day of September, or whenever it is, I have said all along, we don't know what they think of a lot of these people. And there are some names that are going to be on that final cut list that might be surprising. So to fans, so give me one or two of those.

Yeah. So on offense, you know, so like I had Diombi Brown and Ricky Stromberg on the 53, but that was basically by default because I don't know yet what to make of some of these younger receivers. Or again, you know, the offense, until they put pads on, we can't really see the line. So I'm looking at it as, okay, both of these guys were third round picks, Stromberg just a year ago, but he was unfortunately his rookie year was marred by injuries. But, you know, again, you look at the situation, you know, at receiver, they draft Luke McCaffrey.

You know, they sign Zakias to be a guy. They still have a lot of younger pieces. You know, your Bryce and Tremains, your Casimir Allen, you know, we'll see what those guys do. And we don't even know also how many receivers they're going to keep. If you keep the top four, which includes to me McAfrey and Keats, and then does this far as you take James and Cratter as the Palmer Turner, that might be it.

I don't know that they're definitely keeping. being six or seven. I mean, they may just go five. I would imagine they keep six because of just Kingberry's offense. But, you know, I don't know, is the Army Brown that guy? He only has one year left on his contract at this point. So it's not, you know, it's not necessarily a long-term play to keep him. I mentioned Ricky Stromberg. Look, they obviously signed, you know, what a terrible break for this kid. Last year they bring him in, or they draft him in the third around, but after signing Nick Gates, which meant he was kind of blocked to play there. Then he only gets to play a few reps at guard.

Now Gates has gone, but they signed Tyler Beattish. So again, there's no room for him to play the position he was brought into play. They also signed a veteran in Michael Dieter, who's played center. If you're going to view Stromberg now with a guard, well, I mean, you know, say whatever you want about Chris Paul, who's, you know, been here and started eight games in two years, but he's an actual guard. And, you know, again, we'll have to see what some of these other players do and how many of the keep a spot.

So it would be insane to think that Ricky Stromberg, a third-round pick from last year would be gone. But I think it's, to me, it was a 50-50 call between him and Paul, and I just went for Stromberg simply because of where he was picked in their draft, but I don't feel great about that. And by the way, I didn't even mention Braden Daniels the fourth-round pick last year who didn't play because they found an injury to put him on IR after a disaster of a training camp. I mean, I'm not even really factoring him in at all at this point until we see, unless we

see a lot more from him. I mean, Cole Turner, Armani Rogers, there's really not room for both of them to stay because you already have. Yeah, that was one I, done. Yeah, that was one that caught me. Like, I think if Cole Turner wasn't on the team, that would be a surprise to some people. But, look, it's the math of the position. You're not going to keep more than four tight ends, and they've got Ertz, they've got Bates, and they've got Senate. Bates is staying because he's their block, he's their true blocking tight end, and Armani Rogers, there are a lot of possibilities for him. Maybe, at least that's what the last regime thought. Right, exactly. And then, you know, look, are they keeping three quarterbacks? Well, based on the signing bonus they gave

Sam Hartman, I would think so, but if they don't, they only go two, which obviously a lot of teams go with, then that opens up a spot and maybe that changes something. I'm not even sure what to make of Chris Rodriguez, to be honest. He obviously looked very good last year, but look, they brought in, you know, this kid Austin Jones from USC, which is where Cliff Kingsbury was last year. They have another undrafted free agent, Michael Wiley out of Arizona, who I think is pretty interesting. And again, they didn't draft Rodriguez.

And I think Chris came in maybe a little bit heavier than maybe they would have liked. thought he was saying you're saying this off season for OTAs and in minicamp he came in overweight yeah I mean you know it's all relative I'm not you know okay he's not like me where he's drop a lot of weight but uh you know for for football team and I did I thought he was like to me would have been like a leading candidate to be the kick returner but they didn't really use him in OTAs and mini camp when they when they practice that so I don't know what that means for him but I'm just saying again he's a fifth round pick from a year ago, not drafted by this group.

I'm not assuming anything with anybody sort of of that profile, even if we think he's good, that's a new set of eyes. So, yeah, and I think, you know, we don't have to get into the defense now, but same thing's going to apply on defense of pretty much all the levels. Don't assume that people that you're familiar with

are automatically staying just because they've been around. Yeah, I actually think there are more potential surprises on defense than there are on offense. Chris Rodriguez would surprise me. I actually think he's a really good runner with really terrific vision and a combination of power and speed. I mean, I liked what I saw last year from him, but we'll see. All right.

I appreciate you doing this, as always. I will talk to you soon, unless you have anything else to add to the conversation. No, I know you. Well, look, I mean, I know you've already. hit on Georgetown Maryland. You had Ed Cooley on. Yeah. It's not, you know, it feels like it's one of these things where it's like a

day late, the dollar short because of where the nature of college basketball is. It does feel a little bit that way. But I also think, you know, the national college basketball is just so diminished. Your only real hope, I think, to some degree, is, you know, conference play, but really maybe even more local play. So, Georgia's got to get all way better. Maryland's got to get a lot better for this thing to be interesting. but hey, at least they finally did it.

But at the point of course, and even Maryland last year as well, it was like, oh, boy, these programs are so far away from where they were. But, you know, I hope it's better, you know, suit better than nothing. Yeah, I think, I think that's a really good point, you know, that the interest level in this sport

has, you know, diminished significantly over the last 10 to 15 years. And these are the kinds of things that it can, at least provide a temporary bump. Now, these teams need to be much better than they've been. Put it this way. If they didn't get this done, and let's just say in three years, you know, Georgetown's ranked 17th, Maryland's in the top 10.

They're both, you know, legitimate kind of deep into the tournament teams. We'd want that game. So I'm glad they got it done. And I think by the time we get to some of these games, both of these teams will likely be better than they've been here recently. All right, thanks. I'll talk to you later. See you. Ben Standing, everybody.

We are done for the day. I'll be back tomorrow with Tommy. The Redskins looking to throw, spreading out the giant defense. Warful getting a lot of time, but he can't do it forever, and he's finally stopped from behind by Cornelius Griffin, who returns to the giant lineup after being inactive for two weeks. A loss of seven yards forces the Redskins to kick it away.