The Kevin Sheehan Show - Would Kevin Give Thom A Kidney?

Episode Date: July 11, 2019

Kevin and Thom opened with Josh Norman's running with bulls in Pamplona. They talked Skins' playoff chances in 2019 and Albert Haynesworth's plea for a kidney. Kevin tripled down on Russell Westbrook and Thom talked about Jim Bouton's passing and his legendary book, "Ball Four". <p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices">podcastchoices.com/adchoices</a></p> Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You want it. You need it. It's what everyone's talking about. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Now here's Kevin. You're listening to The Sports Fix. Yep, Tommy's here. Aaron's here. This show's presented by Window Nation. If you're in the market for Windows, call 86690 Nation or go to Window Nation.com and tell them that we told you to call. Josh Norman ran with the Bulls in Pamplona, Spain, Tommy, earlier this week. Apparently there's video of him. leaping a bull inside a bull ring during this event. We have not found the video. The ESPN story says there is video of it. Five people so far have been gored during this event. Josh Norman's not one of them.

I mean, some Redskin fans, well, I won't go there. No, let's not go there. But he did say that there were a couple of close calls during it. He said it was crazy, quote, I had to face the bull straight on. It was fun. It was worth it. It was really worth it.

Closed quote. So he should be in pretty good shape for training camp then. I guess so. If he was training from running from Bulls. He's an interesting guy. He's a very eclectic guy. Yes. For professional athletes based on what we typically deal with.

Well, I think that's part of it. He travels a ton. He experiences a lot. And this, by the way, I would imagine that this was not something that if he had gotten hurt, that he would have ever collected another scent from the rest of. Redskins. The Redskins would have been able to get themselves out of the contract, I'm sure, for a running with the Bulls and Pamplona. You would think so. You would think that they would have to pay for that. But you never know. You never know with the Redskins.

You never know. I like him, though. I've always liked him. I don't love him as a player, but every single time I've had a chance to sit down and interview him, he came on with Kooley and I at least four or five times, usually in studio. And he's one of these guys. He's one of these guys that's just interesting, he's smart, he's got a lot of charisma, Josh Norman does. I just think that, you know, the fit here hasn't been great. He hasn't had a great season yet here. No, no, he hasn't. He's been okay. He's been okay. He's been okay. How are you? Are you okay? I'm better than okay, baby. Yeah, I'm Superman. You are? Bullets bounce off me. You're, uh, you're busy this week. Yes, I am. You're writing columns, you're working four-hour

radio shows in the afternoon for Chad, who's on vacation, you and Andy, this week on 1067 The Fan. I did a segment yesterday, Tommy, without you. I thought it would be best to do this without you. It was more of a let's try to be optimistic day. And I came up with five reasons why the Redskins could make the playoffs in 2019. What was really interesting is you and I both get so much feedback from people. I can't take it anymore.

I can't take the negativity. anymore, you know, from the people that have really been drinking the Kool-Aid for years. And yesterday, after doing that segment, I got a ton of tweets that said, dude, are you serious? Playoffs, you're out of your mind. Stick to the reality stuff you've been doing, which was kind of funny. Now, you know what's interesting. I mean, I did think about this after you had that yesterday. And, you know, look, I think what I think is going to happen and what I think could happen, there's really, if things broke right for them, there's no reason why they could start off just like they did last year. I know they have a rough schedule, but I looked back at their schedule last year,

and while it wasn't exactly the same, it wasn't a cakewalk. Their six and three record was not necessarily a cakewalk. I mean, they played some good teams. They played a Packers. They played the Saints. Packers was the most impressive win during that stretch. So, I mean, they have the same blueprint to do the same thing. They have a quarterback in Case Keenham who can probably manage the game well if they go with him.

Alex Smith style. Yeah. The defense is probably at least as good, if not better. We hope. You know, we hope. So, I mean, and they have Adrian Peterson back and, you know, recovered Darius guys. So it's possible if they use the same formula, they could wind up being a playoff team. I can buy into that.

You just came up with like three of my five reasons. I mean, the number one is they do have to avoid what's happened in the last two years. They can't get decimated by injuries. This is a team without a lot of depth and without elite starters to begin with. So you can't have a team that finishes for a third straight season and the top three of man games lost. and expect them to make the post season. And you've got to have Trent Williams. I had that in others receiving votes in terms of my top five,

but health is one. And then two, Tommy, I said, Case Keenham's got to start all of your games. That's the only way you make the postseason next year. And it wasn't an anti-Dwayne Haskins thing. It was an anti-Rookie quarterback thing. If you're going to make the post-season in 2019, it's going to be with Case Keenum,

making the majority, the significant majority of starts, if not all 16 of the starts, because he's the quarterback that has shown that with a good defense and a good running game, actually an excellent running game and an excellent defense in 2017, he can make a few plays, manage games, and get you to the postseason. And so I think that that's critical, and I don't know that that's the best path for the Redskins to take long term. It still may be better to not go to the playoffs, but start Dwayne Haskin. 12 games anyway or 11 games. But I think that if you are saying how could the Redskins make the playoffs,

you're not making the playoffs more likely than not with Dwayne Haskins starting the majority of games. And in my view, not yours, I'm sure. Colt McCoy is starting the majority of games. I think if Colt McCoy is healthy, they have just as good a chance to make the playoffs as they do with Case Keenham. And I'm sure Jay Gruden does too. I'm sure Jay Gruden does also. I think it's a blind spot for him and for you. I think he sees very well.

Really, all of a sudden, he sees well. But, but look, we know there's going to, I mean, we know that there's things that are going to get in the way. I mean, you've got Jake Gruden arguably, you know, as a lame duck, perception-wise. We're staying away from the things that'll get in the way. Okay, okay. This is about how it could happen. It could, it could happen. Yeah, because we know what could get in the way.

We've spent the better part of seven or eight years. So you're right. Talking about what can get in the way. The same formula that got them the six and three last year, they can do the same thing. That was my fifth reason is, you know, they have to, Jay Gruden, I would not call a coach that has a disciplined football team during his, you know, five years. But the one, the one stretch of discipline football was last year over the first half of the season. They won the turnover battle. They won the penalty yardage battle.

They won the field position. And all of this stuff that tends to be a result of a disciplined football team they had going in the first half of that season. Now, again, I thought as we were going through it, there certainly were some red flags about whether or not it could continue. as in the good offensive teams they faced, their defense got shredded. Yes. You know, New Orleans and Atlanta in particular. And even Tampa shredded them, even though not points-wise. 500 yards and three points.

And offensively, they were very limited last year at times. And so I thought eventually that would catch up with them. But they had the formula, the NFL tried and true formula, for having a chance to win close games, which they did. Yes, they did. You know, they won a lot of close games, the Carolina game, the Dallas game. You know, the giant game was a one-score game, even though they really dominated the Giants early on.

The first Giants game. Yeah, the first Giants game. So anyway, it's the NFL. This is always possible in the NFL. And at the end of doing this, I essentially stated, there's a one in five chance this could happen. There's about a 20% chance that this could happen, that they could make the postseason. and if they make it, it would be this way. It would be shocking if they made it because Dwayne Haskins came out and lit the league on fire as a rookie.

Or they ended up having the 85 Bears defense, which it's not. But I do agree with you. That's a key here and was one of the things that I mentioned. It has to make another marked improvement. You know, the 2017 to 2018 season, big improvement. And now 2018 to 2019 got to be a big improvement. Now, that could be a little bit, on paper it looks like that could happen, but let's not forget that Greg Minusky may have been the problem as to why it regressed so much last year,

which is why I think they tried to replace him, is they got easy to figure out at some point during the season. The other part of it, Tommy, is just that Case Keenum, he really does, like Alex Smith did and did in Kansas City, Case Canem has to have a supporting cast. In particular, he's got to have a running game. Without a running game, you get no shot. But the Redskins could potentially have a decent running game. Yes, they could. Look, I mean, we're going to operate on the assumption that if Darius Geis is healthy,

he'll be an effective running back at the very minimum. And we saw what Adrian Peterson can do. So, yeah, I think it's safe to assume that he'll have the support of a good running game. to fall back on so he wouldn't have to throw the ball 25, 30 times a game. Right. Yeah. Yeah, you got to have that with Case Keenum. See, I mean, we, there you go.

There you go. I don't know how much more positive you can get than that. Now, you know, in 2017, a team that I actually thought was pretty good until the injuries kicked in. If you recall, you know, they destroyed the Raiders, they beat the Rams. We didn't even know the Rams are good at that time. They went to Arrowhead and had a legit shot to beat the Chiefs on Monday Night Football. Jay Gruden sort of stepped all over his, you know what, at the end of that game.

And then all the injuries kicked in. And even with the injuries, they went to Seattle and won. They should have beat in New Orleans, you know, had a two-square 15-point lead late and blew that one. That 2017 team, you know, had a legit chance to win, you know, nine, ten games. The problem with that particular season is somebody reminded me yesterday on Twitter is that he's, you know, I forget who it was. He said, remember, Kevin, the Redskins were decent that year and could have potentially gone 9 and 7 or 10 and 6, but that was the year that you had to go 10 and 6 or 11 and 5 just to make

it as a wild card in the NFC, and that's true. That particular year, the Panthers and the Falcons were the two wild cards. The Panthers were 11 and 5, and the Falcons were 10 and 6, and you never know. That could be the case this year. It may take more than nine wins to get into the postseason. And last year, Philadelphia got in as the final wild card with a 9-and-7 record. I think they were the final wild card. I think Seattle was the first one.

And, you know, the Redskins, let's face it, they don't win more than 10 games ever. No. So when we're talking about hitting an inside straight for this organization, it means winning 10. Winning 9 or 10 is an inside straight for them. And in some seasons, that's not good enough for the postseason. Anyway, there was a – we'll stick with the Redskirts. here for a little bit since we started with them. My guy, Bill Barnwell, who writes, you know, the Warren Peace stories, the guy that you

don't read and you didn't even know. Bill Barnwell, you know who he is. Who's he right for? The ESPN.com. Bill Barnwell writes these very lengthy pieces on ESPN.com, and he wrote a piece that came out early this morning, ranking the NFL's offensive arsenals, 32 worst all the way to number one. And basically, you know, he's considering how the players that the teams have will perform in 2019. He's not necessarily just basing it off of recent performance. He's, he's guessing on what,

you know, it will be in 2019. And he says also that the, as he prefaces it with a lengthy preview before he starts ranking them. Of course. He's in love with his words. That the arsenals are weighted the Arsenal rankings are weighted more towards receivers than tight ends or running backs. And he says also that the top elite level talent wins out over depth. Anyway, the rankings start with the 32nd ranked offensive Arsenal, Jacksonville. Then it's Denver, Miami, Seattle, and then the Redskins. So the Redskins have the fifth worst offensive arsenal in the NFL, according to Bill Barnwell. And he writes,

is made at wide receiver haven't worked out. Former Seahawks wide-out Paul Richardson signed to a five-year $40 million deal wasn't healthy in Seattle and caught just 20 passes in seven games last season. Former first rounder Josh Doxon hasn't developed, and Washington just declined the fifth-year option on Doxon. James and Crowder left for the Jets. Mr. Irrelevant, Trey Quinn, will be his replacement. Jay Gruden drafted Terry McClorn in the third round, but is there any reason to think

Washington is going to start developing wide outs effectively. This is likely the league's worst group of starting wide receivers. Wow. That's the kind of tools you want to put around a rookie quarterback, aren't they? I know. And you know, the funny thing is, according to Warren Sharp, this is the most expensive offense in the NFL. This is the most costly offense that will take the field in the NFL. Because of the investment in Alex Smith.

Yeah. And, you know, that is not going to. to pay off. Yeah. So, I mean, again, another reason why you want to put this limited offense in hands of a quarterback who understands limitations. And that's Case Keenham. It's Colt McCoy, too, but I'm going to operate on the assumption that Colt just isn't going to stay healthy.

So that's Case Keenum. You don't want to experiment and test out a rookie. with these kind of weapons, especially if you're Jay Gruden and you have the expectation or the hope, and we're assuming he does, of having a team good enough for him to remain as head coach. You know what's interesting? I was thinking about this as I was reading this early this morning, that the Redskins, according to Barnwell, look, I mean, I don't know if it's the worst. It's certainly among the five or six worst, you know, starting wide receiver groups in the NFL. And we know that, you know, in terms of offensive weapons, they don't have much.

I mean, you have to pray that Jordan Reed comes back, plays 13 games, and is Jordan Reed again. You've got to hope that Chris Thompson is a weapon out of the backfield, that Darius Geis pays off as a second round pick and turns into a guy that with Adrian Peterson is a big time back. That Vernon Davis continues to be effective and that somebody, whether it's Richardson or Doxon or Harmon or. or McCorn, somebody steps up. This is a big reach here to expect the supporting cast to be good enough for them offensively. But you know what Jay Gruden has said twice or did say twice over the course of OTAs in minicamp? I really like our receivers. I think we're a little bit underrated there.

And a couple of the guys who, John Allen, what did he say to us, Aaron? I asked him, give me the player that you think will surprise more than any other player on the roster. And he said, Cam Sims. Yeah. Right? Yes. The big wide receiver that we haven't seen that much, but the 6-5, 220-pound wide receiver that they signed last year as an undrafted free agent. I mean, Gruden knows offensive players.

He also, you know, I'm sure he's also very positive. And usually lists all of them when he's naming them. if you've noticed in the past. But it's a reach to think that the Redskins are going to be dynamic offensively with their talent, with their players. You've got to hope Jordan Reed is still their most talented and gifted offensive receiver or pass catcher. But we've seen what Jordan Reed produces. Yeah.

And I think that is inconsistent because of injury. While Reed is their best pass catcher, I think their best offensive weapon when healthy is Chris Thompson. I think that's the guy that's the guy to. keeps defenses on their heels. I think that's the guy that helps you get, when it's first and 10, that helps you get first down on first and second down with a pass out of the backfield.

You know, a 10-yard pass turns into a 25-yard pass with Chris Thompson running the ball, but he has not proven to stay healthy. He was so effective early in 2017 with Kirk Cousins. So good. Well, I mean, the bottom line is he's played 10 games each in the last two season. 10 in 2017 before he got injured in 10 games last year. He's got to play more games too.

I mean, I agree with you. You know, despite the addition of new players in excitement, you know, over guys like Geis and McLaurin and Harmon, whatever, name any player that we really haven't seen, including Richardson, play that much as a Redskin. The two players that really, actually three, that can really make a difference. But they have to be on the field are Jordan Reed, Chris Thompson, and Adrian Peterson. Yes. Those are the three that you know you can count on if, oh, I say count on. You can count on to produce if they're in the game and healthy. Yes.

Anyway. So that's not that much of a reach. That's a 20% reach, right? A 20% reach? Yeah, a 20% chance that they make the postseason, which, by the way, you could pretty much put on any of the perceived. bad teams, you know, the perceived bad rosters, you could put a one in five. I mean, I'd put a one in five chance on Arizona. It's the NFL. Anything can happen. The one other quick thing that I wanted to say about Barnwell's rankings, which I did find interesting, and I actually like his work,

I think he does pretty good work, is that the three other NFC East teams, when ranking their offensive arsenals, are all in the top ten. The Giants? The Giants he has as the eighth best offensive arsenal in the NFL. And I mentioned this the other day. Of course, they lose OBJ. But, you know, they added Golden Tate. Sterling Shepard can play. Evan Ingram may not be a blocking tight end, but is a pass-catching tight end?

And is there a better back than Saquan Barkley? I mean, he's certainly in the top three in backs. The Cowboys ranked sixth among offensive arsenals with, you know, Elliott and Cooper Witten's back. I actually think in some ways the giant look is equal to the Cowboys

and then Philadelphia is fourth overall. The Eagles have some changes offensively. They got Jackson back. They still have they've got Aguilar. They added Miles Sanders, the running back from Penn State, who I like a lot. They added that big kid from Stanford.

Aaron, what's that kid? name, the big kid from, with the hyphenated name, White Side, Arsego White Side. Yeah. They added him. Still have Ertz, right? This is a really good offensive arsenal. By the way, somebody, it's changing subjects real quickly. Somebody texted me yesterday, the opening week one line between the Eagles and the Redskins.

The Eagles are eight and a half, nine point favorites in week one. They're the biggest favorite right now in week one. on the board as an eight and a half nine point favorite over the Redskins. And he said, do you think this is fair and do you think it'll change? And I said, it seems fair to me. And the only reason it will change significantly is if Carson Wentz doesn't play. Right. The Redskins quarterback situation is already factored into the price.

And Wentz starting is factored into the price as well. But whether it's Keenham or Haskins or Colt McCoy isn't going to make that much a difference. Preseason performances aren't going to make that much of a difference. If Carson Wentz can't play the opener, then the line will be Philadelphia minus three or minus four. That's the only thing that will change that point spread significantly between now and then. It's funny to go back and look in recent years, the very early week one lines. They change, but they don't change a lot. Because you really don't learn anything about NFL teams. In preseason football. In Pre-season.

The only thing that changes them are significant injuries in terms of the points. Now, you mention the Eagles if they don't have Carson Wentz. I mean, consider the real possibility. We haven't had to blowback that the Redskins probably deserve for this. But you could if Carson Wentz is hurt and Nate Sudfeld gets in the game. The Eagles obviously think very highly of Nate Sudfield. Right. They've kept three quarterbacks on the roster for two years just so they could keep Nate Sudfeld around.

Something the Redskins refused to do. And now he's the backup. You know, and what, I mean, if Nate Sudfeld comes in and proves to be a quality NFL quarterback, I mean, that would just be just another, another slap on the head, another smashing with a hammer on the head. This is what keeps you going. just the thought of Nate Sudfeld coming in for Carson Wentz and doing what Nick Foles did. Well, because Redskins should pay for that mistake. It was a ridiculous mistake. He was a sixth round pick.

But they liked him. They liked him. They liked him. They liked him. And they gave him away. And they gave him away to a team much better than them that scarfed them up and did everything they could protect to protect him. They should pay for that mistake. You think it's more likely that Nate Sudfeld could lead Philadelphia to the playoffs or Kirk Cousins can lead Minnesota to a championship game. Oh, I think it's more likely that Nate Sudfeld could lead the Eagles to the playoffs. I think he could.

Really? But look, I can't say, I can't really say that. I've barely seen Nate Sudfeld play. How could I possibly say that? Right. I'm going to, that was a stupid thing to say. Erase that. Okay.

I'm just kidding. You can keep it in there. The other thing that I just wanted to mention is that, you know, going through all the NFL stories, I'm sick of the NBA, although I'm going to, to triple down on something today in today's show about the NBA, about Russell Westbrook. That's coming up shortly. But there was a ranking of the offensive lines, the projected starting offensive lines in the NFL and where they ranked. And this is something that, for whatever reason, Redskinned fans have been hung up on and adamant about for, I don't

know, two or three years. Ever since it became obvious that Brandon's sheriff was really good, and Morgan Moses, you know, was a legitimate right tackle to go with Trent Williams. A lot of Redskins fans have thought that this is a top five offensive line. And I've been saying it's not even, it's not top five. It's barely top ten the Redskins offensive line when you go through the list of offensive lines in the league. And it's the third best in the division. Now, the giants have had an awful offensive line. But the Cowboys and Eagles offensive lines have been better. So CBSports.com, I think it was. Maybe courtesy of pro football focus. I don't know. Had a ranking, you know, one through 32 of the offensive lines, and the Redskins were 14th. That seems right to me.

And by the way, it includes the projection of Trent Williams starting at left tackle with Eric Flowers starting at left guard, and you know the rest of it, Rueh, at Center, Sheriff and Moses. You know, when it's really healthy, and it hasn't been the last two years, it's a really good offensive line. It's just not an elite offensive line, but it is somewhere in that, you know, I would put it in the 10 to 15 range. somewhere in that range when it's really healthy. But you've seen much better offensive lines. I mean, the Ravens have had a good offensive line.

The Panthers have had a good offensive line. It's an offensive line you can live with. Cowboys, absolutely. You can win with. Oh, it's been one of the strengths of their team when healthy because it hasn't been the last two years. But projecting all of those guys playing 15 or 16 games healthy, which by the way, Trent Williams doesn't play,

he plays a lot of games hurt, which I can give him credit for. he also will miss a couple of games here and there. And I'm not just talking about the suspensions from years ago. But, you know, when you start with Sheriff and Trent Williams, you're starting with arguably top five players at each of those positions. So that puts you, you know, already in a good position. And I think Chase Rue has been a good center for them. That's a sixth round pick that they hit on.

I mean, he's a legitimate starting center in the NFL. One other Redskins-related story is the story of, of Albert Hainsworth. Yes. Who is in dire need of a kidney. Are you willing to donate yours? No, I'm not. Really?

Are you willing to donate yours? I mean, I would think that there be some... Why, we shouldn't... This shouldn't be something. I'm not making fun of it. Yes, you are. No, I'm not. I'm asking you a question.

Well, what was your expectation on my answer? Did you think my answer might be yes? Well, I never know. I don't know how deep your roots go when it comes to the Redskins fandom. What percentage chance did you think that I would say yes, seriously? I don't know. I'd say, I'd say about 0%. Yeah, so you're trying to have fun with it.

No, I'm not trying to have fun with it. The man is suffering from kidney failure, and he may die if he doesn't get a transplant at 38 years old. That's very sad. Well, I just asked, very sad. Do you think there's a Redskins fan out there that would give him a kidney? Huh? Yes. I bet there is.

I bet there is. Absolutely. He certainly is at. He said, this is hard for me to say, but my doctor said I should reach out to my family, friends, and fans. Haynesworth wrote yesterday on Instagram. Some of you may have known I've been battling kidney disease for a few years. Now the time has come family, friends, and fans. I'm in dire need of a kidney.

Mine have finally failed me on July 7, 2019. It's hard to believe from being a professional athlete to only eight seasons in retirement that my body has taken another. major blow. First with the brain aneurysm three seasons out of the NFL, remember that, to now my kidneys failing me. But the bright side of this latest ordeal, I can ask for help by asking for someone to generously donate a kidney. I hope he gets one. I think he will. I mean, don't most people who need kidneys these days get them because, I mean, look, and if people care about him, you can live with just one kidney. Like if it's someone that you care about, You know, you can donate your kidney and still live with the one you've got.

I hope he gets a kidney. I think he will. I hope he does. There's nothing else to say on this. I know you would like to take it in a mocking direction. No, no, I would. This is a serious thing. I mean, you could probably say something about the picture of him laying down in the hospital bed.

Similarly. That never occurred to me. It crossed your mind, apparently. but it never occurred to me. Albert Hainsworth, I'm praying for you. I hope you get that kidney. You're certainly not a favorite redskin for most Redskin fans of all time, but this is a human thing.

And I have human empathy. There are Redskins fans out there who think he was a victim of Mike Shannahan. So those fans out there, if you think that Albert Hainsworth was wronged by Mike Shattahan, here you have a chance to step up and help him. Do you remember that? Of course. I mean, that was so outrageous that fans were taking his side. He had zero interest in playing for the team or doing what anything,

doing anything the coaches asked him to do. Now, you know, one of the defenses of Haynesworth is he signed the big, you know, all-time contract with the Redskins that made him the highest paid defensive player in the history of the game with the expectation of, you know, playing in a in a four-three defense. Right. And when Shanahan got here, and went to a 3-4 and wanted him to, you know, potentially be a nose-tackle. That's not what he wanted to do.

But, you know, these things happen. It's not, I don't think it's built into your contract when you sign the biggest deal in NFL history that the team can't switch to a 4-3, or 3-4, and switch your position. These things too happen. These things happen. We're praying for you. Hopefully you'll get that kidney, Albert Hainsworth. Quick word about stamps.com.

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It's no wonder that over 700,000 small businesses like mine already use stamps.com. Now, right now, our listeners get a special offer that includes a four-week trial plus free postage and a digital scale. without any long-term commitment. Just go to Stamps.com, click on the microphone at the top of the home page, and use my code, Kevin, D.C. That's Stamps.com. Click on the microphone at the top of the homepage and type in my code, K-E-V-I-N-D-C, Kevin D-C. I wanted to do just literally five minutes, no more on the NBA, because I know people are getting

sick of the NBA, and I'm sort of getting sick of the NBA as well. But before you do that, I was sitting here thinking of something when we were talking about Albert Hainsworth and his need for a kidney. If I needed a kidney, would you give me one of yours? If you needed one? Yeah. To be honest with you, I don't know the process, but if it was something that I could give you and continue to live my life and not put myself in jeopardy of dying, yes, I would.

Okay. I would. I just wondered. Do you need one? No, I don't need one. Are you about to need one? No, my kidneys work fine. They do?

Yes, they do. In fact, my kidneys have been battle tested. Yeah, your kidneys have certainly been battle tested. Your liver as well, more likely than not. Would you give me one of yours? Of course. Really? Absolutely.

Okay. I don't really, the medical stuff, when it comes to a lot of the medical stuff, I don't like delving into the details. No, you don't. In great depth because then I start to think that maybe some of that's going to happen to me. Right. I bet you the worst thing that you probably do when you get one little symptom is go to the internet and start reading WebMD.

I used to do that. That's a bad thing. I used to do that. I would recommend against that for all of you. You know, WebMD might be a good resource, but it really creates more anxiety than anything else. Yes. But the, do you know, I'm pretty sure I've told you this, do you know who is, I've said this to his face, so I don't have a problem saying it behind his back.

But a major hypochondriac is John Riggins. Is he really? Oh my God. Really? A guy who, who, the baddest ass of all time. I mean, a guy who, like me, for years, probably treated his body like a $20 hooker. Yes. But, you know, he's also, I haven't actually talked to John in a while.

Maybe I'll give him a call, see if he'll come on the podcast before the season starts. Although I think he told me last year that 980 didn't want him doing anything but 980. Or Redske. Where was he? Was he doing stuff for 980 last year? He was, right? You know, I don't know, Kevin. I don't know if you remember, but I didn't work at 980 last year.

It doesn't mean that you don't know who works for them. Well, when we worked at 980, we knew who worked at one of the first of you. 6-7. Yes. Okay. Aaron, did Rigo do the pre-game show last year or not? For 9-80. Did he do anything for 9-80?

Did he go on with Galdi? He might have been, but just because he was on the pre-game show, I don't remember him doing stuff outside of the pre-game show, if he did. I don't know the answer to that. I know that he was doing a podcast for the Redskins. Okay. I just remember I asked him to come on one time last year, he said, they won't let me. So I didn't know if that was the Redskins or 9-80, whatever.

But Rigo used to, you know, if he got a little bit of a, you know, sharp pain somewhere. Yeah. He'd think the worst. He would think the worst. Worst case scenario. And end up potentially in an emergency room just to be sent home 20 minutes later. Hey, you're fine.

Anyway, how did we get sidetracked on that? I would give you a kidney. I would give you a kidney too. Okay, good. So back to the NBA for a moment. I know I'm sick of it too. I'm sick of all of this stuff. I guess the last, you know, big.

Ubre, by the way, signed a deal yesterday to stay in Phoenix. Let me mention something about Kelly Ubre. Yes. That I've found out. He was the source of a lot of friction in the front office. A lot of friction. There were a lot of people who worked in the organization. That didn't want him to go.

No, that didn't want him. Oh, I know. And others that wanted him. Yeah. Yeah. But I think the group that didn't want him around was a lot bigger. And he has become in a way a symbol within the front office of how not to do business anymore. signed a two-year $30 million deal to stay with the Sons.

He actually played very well after getting traded to the Sons. I liked Kelly Ubre. I don't know what kind of guy he was in the locker room. He was an odd guy. There's no doubt. Remember the story of him working out in some gym on a road trip, and there were guys there that he booted off the court just to shoot on one end of the court.

Remember that story? Well, this is a guy who one time wore a jacket to Capitol One Arena, before the game that basically said, F you on the back of you. Yeah. You know, I mean, if you're, if you're transparent, Ted, what did you think of that? Right. Here are the two NBA things that I wanted to mention. First of all, the news that came out yesterday about Kauai Leonard's deal with the Clippers,

I found to be very interesting. He signed a two years? He essentially signed a three-year deal, but it's a two-year deal guaranteed with his option for a third. He left a lot of money on the table to become a free agent potentially, in two years. And in no more than three years. It's a $103.1 million deal for three years. He could have signed a four-year deal with the Clippers for a lot more money

and a five-year deal in Toronto for a hell of a lot more money. I don't know. I guess when you're a player who's had some injuries like Kauai Leonard has, and you are, you know, you're approaching that portion of your career where you're going to turn 30 before your next. contract, I don't know, that's a lot of birds in hand for a few more in the bush. But whatever, he's controlling, he's got the chance to be a free agent after two years. And by the way, I think his contract now syncs up with the Paul George contract.

Okay, here's what else it does. Apparently, I only know this because I've learned this in the past 24 hours. Players with 10 plus years experience, and that'll be his 10th year. Yeah. can earn a max contract worth 35% of the salary cap. Yep. So that may be why he did the two-year cutoff because that'll be the 10th year

where he is eligible for something like that. I'm sure there are a lot of reasons why that happened, and that's probably the biggest. It's just you're talking about somewhere in the neighborhood of $50-something million potentially he left on the table. But all these players are doing that. I know. All these players are doing that.

And the NBA thought that, you know, the provisions they put in their contracts that gave the team that the players with, the opportunity to pay them more money to keep them would have kept these players. Right. And it hasn't. And here's the other part of this, too, really, is that these players have all earned so much money already. Anyway, they're just going for the kill. You know, it doesn't matter. Like, leaving that much money on the table is not a big deal, potentially.

Like risking that much in the event that he got hurt is not that much because they already have enough money for themselves and multiple future generations in their family. But the irony is that some of them will be bankrupt when they're done. That's true. You know, I doubt if Kauai Leonard will be because I've heard he's a frugal kind of guy. Right. You know, but some of these guys, no matter how much they think they make that they don't need the money, they'll need the money 10 years after they're done playing. The other quick thing, because I do want to keep five minutes, is I want to double, well, it's not doubling down anymore. It's probably tripling or quadrupling down on Russell Westbrook.

So you're going to repeat yourself. Yeah. Russell Westbrook, if he goes to Miami and the heat have him and Jimmy Butler, I think they can get to a championship. I am not giving up on Russell Westbrook. He's been one of my favorite players forever, as you know. And you have not been a fan of Russell Westbrook. I mean, you've essentially said never going to win a championship. He's uncoachable.

with Russell Westbrook, and he's uncoachable, and he's hard to play with. And you know what? I think all of those things are probably have a lot of truth to him. But he and Jimmy Butler together, that's what I'm rooting for now. Now, apparently what Miami, what Oklahoma City is asking for may be too much for Miami to give up. But I would love to see Jimmy Butler and Russell Westbrook together in Miami. I think that that team would be, they might not be the favorite, and they certainly wouldn't, you know, in Vegas. but I would make a future's bet on Miami to make the NBA finals with the two of them.

I don't believe in Philadelphia next year. And Milwaukee, you know, Janice is going to have to prove to me that he can do it in the postseason. You know, that's going to get in the way of the Wizards making the playoffs, Kevin. Yeah, it might. I mean, if Miami's better, I don't know why you would be rooting for Miami to be better. Because that's contrary to rooting for the whole team, rooting for the Wizards. I have a, actually, I have one NBA question to ask you. Really?

A serious question. Yes, for you. Is it practical anymore for a team's front office to say no to a player in elite player, a superstar player who's under contract who asks to be traded? is it practical anymore for that front office to say nope you sign the deal you got two years three years left on the deal you're staying anthony davis or you're staying paul george okay let's put it this way if you're in a marriage and your spouse comes to you and says i want out is it practical for you to sit there and say no i don't want you to go i because once they make that statement

once they've reached that conclusion whether it's the wife or the player they're gone well they can go I mean, they're not contractual bound to me. But the point is, once that player has approached you on that, he's already gone in his mind. I know. So I don't think it's not practical. I don't think it is. I can't say no anymore. I think you've got to maximize the impact of the loss as best as you can.

That should be your goal after that. I think you're right about that. I don't know how I feel about that. I know you feel that you're sort of pleased that this league, the players basically dictate everything. I'm curious about it because we haven't seen that before and I'm willing to give the players a try and let's see how they do it. I just, I think ultimately, Tommy, a lot of that will hurt and impact some of your

fan base or potential fan base. I do think that fans want more stability, even though this, you know, has been, you know, an entertaining portion of the NBA calendar. but I think, you know, an Oklahoma City fan, when Paul George signed that contract last year and said, I want to stay in Oklahoma City, they think he should stay for more than one more year. Yeah, but how long can you justify being a dope? And you've got to be a dope. As a fan?

Yeah, if you've lived through what's happened since the LeBron to Miami began. I guess what I'm saying is you don't have to be a dope, which is the risk to the league, is you can tune out and you can say this isn't for me. I don't want this kind of instability. I don't want this kind of movement. I don't want players teaming up with other players and, you know, and basically making it a league. And it's always been this way. This is the irony of what I'm about to say, or the contradiction to what I'm going to say, because it's always been a league where only two or three teams could win, but for different reasons. But it is still a league, even though next year looks a little bit more wide open, we're only a

handful of teams can win the whole thing. Okay, let me do my psychological profile here of the fan base now and moving forward. And this is, you know, I use this as a joke with baseball, but it's only half joking. The NBA obviously appeals to a younger crowd, millennials. And the whole, the whole persona of millennials now is, what are we going to do today, you know, not what we're going to do tomorrow? What are we going to do today? You know, non-commitment. We're, what are we going to do today? You know, non-commitment. That's the whole social media millennial thing. So this plays right into that. The problem is, as you and I know, when you get older, you seek out stability. It becomes part of the attraction to you. And that's not going to be the case in the NBA. On the other hand,

baseball, which is so stable, it's considered a dinosaur, is going to wind up being the sport left when the American population is old and aging, and there's only a couple of kids left around. Yeah, I mean, the NFL has great stability. The NFL is a league in which the teams, the uniforms, are more important and sort of supersede individual players. Now, the NBA's never been a league about the teams. I mean, you know, you can go back and say,

the great Celtics teams, the great Lakers teams. But they were great because of Larry Bird, Kevin McHale, and Robert Parrish, and DJ, and Magic and Kareem, and Worthy. I mean, it's, I just think the league, you know, Silver said something the other day. I didn't read his comments in great detail, but he did say that we need to look at this free agency system

and the way things are working. I think there should be some recognition from front office, the NBA league office anyway, that this is not exciting and entertaining for all of their fans. It's not. And by the way, adding challenges for the coaches for replay is stupid. I haven't weighed in on that, but that's dumb. You can't delay these games. You can't interrupt these games many times they do it in the final two minutes of these games.

But look, the NBA is relatively healthy right now. Yeah. It is. Yeah, I mean, the value of an NBA franchise. franchises through the roof. It is. It's gone through the roof. It's still nowhere near the NFL franchises, but.

But it really has gone through the roof. And this whole idea of, what does Silver say exactly? What did he say? Here it is. I've got it right here. He acknowledged that the league has worked to do in order to enforce free agency rules and said trade demands are disheartening. So trade demands are disheartening.

and is something that needs to be addressed. Continuing his quote, my sense in the room today was, especially when it comes to free agency and the rules around it that we've got work to do. As I've said, it's still the same principles of fair balance of power in a sense that it's a level playing field. I think that's what teams want to know, close quote.

By the way, he also addressed the ridiculous draft night situation where players are putting on hats of teams that they'll never play for. But, you know, the quote where he says, trade demands are disheartening. Well, here's the thing with the NBA. The owners lost their chance to keep control of the players in this league when they caved in in the 2011 lockout and let the players back in. That was an opportunity because the players were not making the kind of money that they are now, obviously.

They were, and where you could have pressured those players into pretty much accepting demands that would have been much more favorable for the owners in terms of control of player movement and salary. Now, if you're the, if you're the governors, I shouldn't use the word owners because they're governors. That's right. If you're the governors of the NBA, you've lost that power. I mean, you know, the players are going to look at you.

like you've got two heads if you say you're going to lock them out. For one thing, they have a lot more money to be able to live on during a lockout. The second thing is, what we've seen from LeBron, James, who is arguably

the most powerful person in the league and what we've seen with the big three, I know it's a novelty act, but I think the reality is, and the players have done this before, tried this before it failed, that the players could say, okay,

we'll start our own league. I mean, I think you've got enough money out there and you've got enough influence with guys like LeBron James that I think they'd have a better chance of pulling it off now than they ever would. Because you don't need, in the NFL, to pluck a few stars, a league is not made. Right. In the NBA, to pluck a few stars, you've got a good shot at creating a league.

And the owners don't want that because, you know what? You don't want to get in that kind of war, so they lost their chance. I mean, they just have to be happy that they've got court side seats at this point, if you're a governor. Well, in one particular governor's case, he's got bench seats. That's true. He sits on his team's bench, and nobody seems to ever mention anything about it. But we do on this podcast. He's the only owner in sports, the only one in sports who sits on his team's bench.

We've mentioned the others. Arthur Blank is on the sidelines some of the time in Atlanta. Jerry Jones some of the time. Cuban sits behind the bench a couple of rows. Ted sits, Governor Ted, sits on his team's bench. On his bench. All right, so that's much longer on the NBA that I wanted to go. I know you want to talk about Ball 4 and the passing of Jim Bouton.

Before we get to that, can I just mention the Federer and Nadal rivalry, which will continue tomorrow at the Wimbledon in the Wimbledon semifinals. I used to love tennis, Tommy. I don't know if you were ever really into it or not. I used to love it. Wimbledon used to be a big deal. I would sit there and watch McEnroe play a three-and-a-half-hour match, start to finish, if that's what it took.

You know, Agassiz and Samper's the same thing. I used to play tennis in the 70s like everybody else did. Everybody played. So, you know, it's not as popular in the U.S. anymore. I think everybody can acknowledge that. it's a super popular sport, especially in Europe and South America. Yes, internationally.

It's still very popular. Very popular. And Federer and Nadal tomorrow are going to face off for the 40th time. For the 14th time in a major, this rivalry is really one of the most underrated sports rivalries. Maybe it's not underrated. Oh, it is underrated. This is one of the great rivalries in the history of sports.

And by the way, is now easily. You know, in terms of matches played and important matches head-to-head played, the number one rivalry in the history of men's tennis. Martina Navratilova and Chris Everett is probably the number one rivalry in the history of women's tennis. But remember, the women's field was narrow back in the day. They were two of the best three or four. They were guaranteed to face each other year after year.

And I guess you could say the men's field, even though it's deeper than it's ever been, at the top, you know, with Federer Nadal and Djokovic, it's been pretty top-heavy as well. But they're going to play tomorrow in a, for the 40th time, head-to-head, for the 14th time in a Grand Slam. And what's interesting is Federer, you know, owns the, he's got the most Grand Slam titles. He's got 20. Nadal is second. He's got 18. But head-to-head, Nadal has really owned Federer.

He's won 24 of the previous 39 matches. His record is 24 and 15 head to head. 10 in 3 against Federer in Grand Slams. Wow. 10 and 3, Nadal over Federer. I bring this up because at some point when both of their incredible careers are over, people are going to debate the greatest player in the history of tennis. And Federer may end up with more Grand Slam titles.

I get the impression that Federer is generally acknowledged, that's the greatest player in tennis. I think he is, but Nadal has been a better player with Federer head-to-head. That's interesting. I don't think most people, I don't think the average fan who doesn't pay attention much to tennis, except just peripherally. I don't think they realize that. I don't think they do either. Now, you know, again, it's not just their overall record, 24 and 15 Nadal's record against Federer head-to-head. He's 10 and 3 in the 13 grand slams. Now, Nadal has been a much better player on clay than any player in the history of the sport. He's the greatest clay quarter of all time. In fact, that's the one thing that will never get debated. Like in a tennis discussion about the greatest ever, the one thing now that is an absolute fact

is that Nadal's the greatest clay court player in the history of the game. Many of his wins over Federer in Grand Slams have come at the French. Open. His first grand slam head-to-head with Federer was in the 2005. Tommy, the first time they played each other was 15 years ago. This is a rivalry that's 15 years old. And Nadal won as the 34th ranked player in the world. He beat Federer at the Miami Open in 2004. But in 2005, they played at the French and Nadal won that match. The next time they played at a major was also the French and Nadal won that one. Then they played at Wimbledon and Federer won. And their 2008 Wimbledon final is, you know, argued as the greatest men's match in history. And that was the match that Nadal beat Federer at Wimbledon

9-7 in the fifth set and a match that took four hours and 48 minutes. Interestingly, in recent years, now, Nadal just beat Federer at the French in the spring in straight sets in the semifinals. But Fedder at one point was trailing in this rivalry, 23 to 10. But he won five straight matches against Nadal between 2015 and early 2019. He had won five in a row, actually six in a row. One of them was a walkover. Nadal had to default because of an injury. But Nadal won the last one. But this is really an incredible sports rivalry. You know, you're right. I can't tell you how many times I've walked into a bar and heard people arguing, who's better? Federer or Nadal?

Yeah. And most of the time, most people will say it's Federer because he's got the 20 grand slams, by the way, at 37 years old too. This is a sport that's fascinating in that it used to be a young person sport, Tommy. Actually, if you go way back, Lever and Ash played well into their 30s and won Billy Jean King well into her, you know, mid to late 30s. 30s and one. But then there was that stretch where, you know, Bjorn Borg retired at 25 years old. McEnroe's best years came in his mid-20s and then he essentially was done after that.

You know, Agassi and Sampras and Courier and Chang in that era wasn't a late into your, you know, deep into your 30s sport. Now, you know, you've got Serena well into her 30s, Venus well under her 30s. Now, she hasn't won majors recently, but Serena winning majors into her mid-30s. Federer competing and winning majors into his late 30s. I don't know how much longer Federer can play, but every time you watch him, he looks to be the fittest person, fittest athlete in the world. But it's really, you know, it's an incredible rivalry that resumes tomorrow. And then, by the way, you know, if it's Federer Djokovic in the final,

that's a rivalry that has had a significant number of matches overall. If Federer faces Djokovic Tommy in the final, they have faced each other 47 times, Jokovic and Federer 15 times in Grand Slams. So it's actually, in terms of the numbers of matches and the number of grand slams, it's even more, they've faced each other more than Federer Nadal. Federer and Nadal, though, I think, is the rivalry.

But Federer Djokovic, Jokovic leads head-to-head 25-22, and 9-6 over Federer in Grand Slams. Yet, with all this, it's a game that doesn't interest most Americans anymore. I know. I mean, you could argue that you're watching the greatest era of tennis ever, and it's a novelty here in America now.

I mean, because this, look, we have this. We'll watch Serena on Saturday morning, but they won't care much about the men's final on Sunday morning. I mean, we're seeing this in some levels in boxing. I mean, boxing has fallen on hard times here in the United States while overseas. It's still a huge sport. I mean, they get 60, 70,000 people in Europe, in arenas and stadiums for boxing matches. I mean, so, I mean, you know, we tend to think that our world. world stops at the Atlantic and the Pacific Ocean.

That's the way Americans operate. And I understand why. We like what we like and we don't care what the rest of the world likes. And plus. But I think the soccer thing, the World Cup thing, has been interesting over, I don't know, maybe the last 20 years. I think if you go past 20 years ago, Americans couldn't have cared less about the World Cup. It just didn't mean anything.

Maybe it's beyond 20 years. The one that was here in the U.S. was what, 94? Was that the one that was in the U.S.? I think it was 94. So that was maybe the first one that people got interested in. But Tommy, I do think the World Cup has become, well, it's become popular in the U.S.

I mean, it's not NFL popular, but it's become NBA popular. We saw that with some of the ratings in the Women's World Cup. By the way, just one other thing because I wanted to extend it because I just pulled this up and I was just curious.

The Djokovic Nadal rivalry, they played each other 54 times. 54 times the two of them have played. So really these three players and the number of, you know, if you think about men's tennis, the top three major winners are Federer with 20, Nadal with 18, and Djokovic with 15. When Sampress got his 14th or 13th to pass, I think it was Labor, or maybe it was Roy Emerson, people didn't think it would ever be touched. It's been touched in one era by three different people.

players exceeded. Federer's got 20, Nadal's got 18. Jokovic has 15 major championships. And more likely than not, one of the three is going to win this weekend, because the fourth player is like the 25th ranked player in the world. Anyway, I thought I'd do a little bit of tennis today with you, and I'm glad you participated. Did I? Yes, you did. Okay. You wanted to talk about Jim Bouton, the ball four author, and we will get to that in a moment, but real quickly on Window Nation. The intense summer heat is back causing your old leaky windows to produce unnecessary high energy bills, allowing damaging UV rays to fade your valuables, Tommy, and making your windows even less effective. Listen up. The kids are at camp, families are taking vacation,

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one free window for every window you buy, plus no down payment, no payments of any kind, and no interest for two full years. Call soon. This sale ends July 31st. All right, tell me about Ball 4. It's a book that it's one of my areas that I have a blind spot for. I never read it. Sorry. You know, that's, that's amazing. I know. It's one of the great books. It's, it's, I think it's the best sports book of the 20th century. I mean, it really is that. I mean, what it did was changed the whole way. We looked not just at baseball, but all sports.

And it was the perfect book for the time. It came out in 1970 when you had a generation of people growing up that were disillusioned by, you know, the things that had come to define America, including baseball. And then Jim Bouten wrote this great book that was criticized by people in the people. the in the in the in the game but it actually what it did and i called it in a column in the washington times uh later today i called it a love story because basically he shared what goes on inside baseball that he loves so much with everybody else before the saying always was what happens in the clubhouse stays in the clubhouse but he turned around and you know made these players

human you know showed their flaws show that that you know they have had the same anxieties that everybody else did. And it was something that had never been written before. And I read it before every baseball season. Do you really? Oh, yeah, absolutely. So you've read it for, I've read it for 40 and 50 times?

I probably read at least for 20, 25 years straight. Yeah, I mean, because it gets me excited. The characters in the book, Lou Pinella as a rookie, the 1969 Seattle Pilots, the one year that the pilots existed. And, you know, the commissioner of baseball called Bouton into his office and demanded that he signed a statement saying that he made stuff up, which Bouton refused to do. It's a great book. And the New York Public Library called it one of the greatest books of the 20th century as well.

Yeah. No, I know how acclaim this book is. And I just... I mean, here's a story that has to do with Washington from the book, which I quoted in my column. Apparently, the Shoreham Hotel in the district was considered one of the best places for players to do peeping Tom excursions. This is what they used to do. I mean, they basically, they called it Spotting Beaver, you know? And the Shoreham Hotel was perfect for it, apparently.

This is what he wrote. And this is when he was a rookie with the end. Yankees, where he won 20 games, by the way, with the Yankees. One's a heck of a pitcher. The Yankees would go up there in squads of 15 or more on the roof, often led by Mickey Mantle himself. You needed a lot of guys to do the spotting. One of the first big thrills I had with the Yankees was joining about half the club

on the roof of the shore at 2.30 in the morning. I remember saying to myself, so this is the big leagues. You know, there's a lot of stuff like that. How were they, so when you say peeping Tom, were they looking into other hotel room windows? They were looking into other windows. With binoculars? I would assume so. I mean, this was considered, you know.

Voyeurism. Yeah. I mean, he wrote, here's another passage he wrote. This is startling when you think in 1970. We've been running short of Greenies. We don't get them from the trainer because Greenies are against clothes. policy, greenies being speed. Yeah. So we get them from other

players on other teams who have friends who are doctors or friends who know where to get greenies. One of our lads is going to have a bunch of greenies mailed to him by some guys on the Red Sox. And to think you can spend five years in jail for giving your friend a marijuana cigarette.

You know, so there's stuff like that. And, you know, I point out in the column that it was the perfect book for the Times like four years later. everyone in the White House would go to jail and the president would resign. So, I mean, you couldn't get away with fairy tales anymore. That wasn't going to fly.

People wanted, you know, their heroes, they're already been disillusioned by a lot of things in the country at that time. Was he like Woodward and Bernstein essentially disclosing and revealing things that people were... He just kept the diary. He wasn't a reporter, but I'm just saying this was shocking to... Oh, again, like I said, he was kind of

banned from Yankee Stadium for years. You know, they do the Old Timers Day game every, every year there. And he was banned until about 1990, until 1990, until 1999, when they brought him back. And he received a standing ovation when he came back. So, yeah, it caused a lot of bad feelings for a lot of people who just didn't understand that this was something great for baseball. I mean, this was, this was opening up the clubhouse and showing that these guys, you know, are human. I mean, and I think it was fabulous.

What did his teammates think? Oh, they hated it. Everybody hated it for the most part. There were a handful of teammates who understood, but I mean, you know. When it was released in 1970, did it become a New York Times bestseller right out of the gate? Bestseller. And it's funny, like a lot of times. And remember, baseball at that point is number one in this country.

The commissioner helped make it a best seller. seller by making a big deal about how, how negative it was to baseball, which is how things go. You know, so, I mean. Music to his ears. Now, what's interesting, not this past spring, but the spring before that, when I was at spring training, I went around and I asked some Washington Nationals if they had ever read it. I think I remember this. And not only had they not read it, they had never heard of it.

I mean, and I just, I found that hard to believe that a generation of baseball. players had never heard of. There's no argument about this, the greatest baseball book ever written in ball four. And I'm half tempted to buy a copy for Sean Doolittle, who said he never heard of it and didn't read it, you know, obviously didn't read it, because he's a Bouten kindred spirit. You know, he's the kind of guy who Jim Boughton would have loved. Boughton was a counterculture guy for baseball at the time. You know, he was against the Vietnam War.

He had books in his locker when no one had books in their locker in a major league baseball clubhouse. And I think Sean Doolittle would really appreciate Ball 4. I think I'm going to try to buy a copy and give it to him. I read in his obit that he and a former teammate actually developed Big League Chew, the gum. Rob Nelson, who I had on my podcast, Cigars and Curveballs. I interviewed him, and they were playing for a legendary independent league team called the Portland Mavericks. You ever want to see a great documentary called The Battered Bastards of Baseball? It was about the Portland Mavericks.

And Boughton played for them for a while, like 77, 78. And Rob Nelson was kind of like a pitching coach relief pitcher, did everything there. And Rob Nelson threw out this idea. wouldn't it be great if you could, you know, instead of chewing tobacco, had something like bubble gum that would look like tobacco, shredded bubble gum, and Bouten thought it was a great idea. So the two of them came up with something, you know, created the prototype and were partners for years in Big League True, which turned out to be a huge success.

Yeah, why I was going to say, probably a much bigger success than even the book. Oh, yeah. Oh, no, Big League Chew. How much money did he make off that, do you know? I don't know. Eventually, I mean, he got bought out. Eventually. And, you know, I talked to Rob Nelson on the podcast, and he said, I mean, basically, they made the deal on a handshake. And they were partners for years.

And again, if you go to Dix or a sporting goods store, you're waiting in line at the cash register, there it is. Big League chew, you know, ready to buy. I used to chew it when I was younger. I thought it was a cool thing. You know, it comes in this pouch that looks like chewing tobacco. Over 800 million pouches of Big League Chew have been sold since 1980. So, yeah, it's funny. I know Rob Nelson, the guy who was his partner and did interview him.

So, and he loved Jim Bouton. I had a chance to interview Bouton a couple of times over the years. By the way, Rob Nelson was the actual founder of the company. Yeah, but his partner was Bounden. He put up the money, $10,000 in the beginning of his money that he, put up. I interviewed Bouten a couple of times over the years. He was always very gracious and very fun to interview. I was always very honored for that chance. I know this isn't the first time that you've told me. It's not like I didn't know about Balthor and Jim Bouton, but it's not the first

time that you've, you know, gone on about how great this book is. And I think every single time you've done it before, I've always said, you know what, I'm going to go read the book and then I don't. But I actually, I think I really do want to read this book now, finally. Yeah, I mean, I would recommend to anybody. Do you have a copy on you? I do have a copy in my car. I brought it with me. Okay.

Is it super old? Oh, it's super old. Oh, it's got milk and food and food and all kinds of stuff. Peanut butter and cheese. Absolutely. It's got my footprints all over it. I'd recommend if you've read Ball 4, if you do read Ball 4, then read the sequel he wrote to it, which was, I'm glad you didn't take it personally.

That was the name of the book And a lot of it was the reaction To the book You know, Jim Bouten went into Television, Sports TV Also, while he was still playing In New York And he had a lot of encounters

With Howard Cocell He's got some great Howard Cocell stories In there as well But a really smart guy Who I think gave a great gift to baseball In this book And it took people a few years To recognize that

but it helps it helps prepare me for every baseball season. Very good. Very good. I think that that's, I mean, there's been so much written since his passing. And so many people like you feel the same way. I mean,

it sounds like, by the way, you know, I don't know if it's just do little, but it's shocking to me that players haven't heard of the book. I know. I was stunned by that. As lifelong baseball players.

And I'm sure fans. The Nationals, by the way, just real quickly, you won't be here for, you know, to talk about the series that opens up the, you know, not technically the second half, but the post all-star break. Against the Phillies up in Philadelphia. They got three against the Phillies. Strasbourg and Scher will both pitch. This is a huge series to start off. And then they've got, you know, a couple with the Orioles.

And then it's, you know, four with the Braves on the road. Yeah. It's a big time for the Phillies. The Phillies are reeling. Yeah. The Phillies are in a lot. trouble. This is a bigger series. This is a big series for the Phillies as much

as the Nationals. Did you watch the All-Star game? I, bits and pieces of it, not the whole thing. It's a good game. It was fun. I mean, I like the idea that they miced up a lot of these players. That's what I talked to with Aaron about yesterday. And look, if you're going to do it, this is the game to do it.

Of course. And what was unique, I think you can correct me if I'm wrong. We've had the players miced up in the outfield before, but you had Freddie Freeman and others that were batting. That was amazing. That was really Eddie Freeman was great. That was cool. Yeah, that was the best part of the night.

This is the time to do that in an exhibition game like this. I thought it was really fun to watch. So I really enjoyed that. And you know what else I enjoyed through the broadcast? What? All the times that they mentioned the Washington Nationals in the broadcast. You know, they kept talking about the NL East and the race, and they mentioned the Braves, and then they mentioned the Phillies,

and then they mentioned the Braves. And then they mentioned the Phillies. And there was no Washington Nationals. Well, the Nationals are the second place team right now. I know. I don't think anybody realized that. Well, they got rather hot there right before the break to get back into it. Speaking of All-Star Games, Tom, did you see that they did the robot umpire for the Atlantic League All-Star game this week?

Yes, I did. Yes, I did. Electronic balls and strikes. I don't. I would prefer an umpire. Really? Yeah, I like the human element to this. I think this is coming. Probably.

I think it's coming. I think there's a few more changes that they're talking about, that more disturbing to me, like moving the mound back by two feet. I'm not crazy about that. But if you want to, look, if you want to go see the electronic balls and strikes in these changes right down in Waldorf, the Southern Maryland Blue Crops, Atlantic League Baseball. I got my tickets. I got tickets to do a game.

I got them from your auction. But you didn't get them yet. I think, you handed me something. No, I didn't. In an envelope. Are the tickets not in there? No. I don't think so.

Is it just a promise to give me tickets for one of the games? No, I think it was a, I think it was porn. Well, then I'll open it up when I get home. All right. Do you have anything else? I got nothing else. All right. You know what I got?

I got a kidney for you, buddy. I got one for you too. Listen to Tommy today on JFK. with Andy later on this afternoon. I'm back tomorrow. We missed Scott today. Maybe I know he's at the beach this week. He had a hole in one at the Midway Part 3 course.

Yeah, I saw. He posted that. Oh, he did? He just, he called me and he said, I bet you haven't had a hole in one today. And I said, what are you talking about? He goes, I'm at Midway Part 3. And I just had a hole in one on like a 90-yard hole. Anyway, maybe he'll call in tomorrow,

but we'll be back tomorrow. Tommy back next week. Don't forget to rate us on iTunes, review us on iTunes. Subscribe if you haven't. It doesn't cost you anything and tell people who haven't listened. It's available also on the internet at the Kevin Sheehan Show.com. Have a great day.