The Kevin Sheehan Show - Would You Trade Terry?

Episode Date: March 24, 2022

Kevin and Thom today with lots of Washington Commanders conversation including a discussion about Terry McLaurin and whether or not Washington should participate in the windfall of compensation being tossed around for #1 wide receivers? They talked JD McKissic, the Sweet 16, and The Team 980 not being the future radio home for Washington games.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Chean Show. Here's Kevin. Don't forget to subscribe to the show. It doesn't cost you a thing. Rate us and review us.

We'll continue occasionally to read some of those reviews that are coming in. Really important on Spotify and Apple. It really helps us. Tommy is with me on back-to-back days. We are starting the podcast a little bit late today. because literally everybody in my house now, Tommy, has what I had. And I had to make runs to pharmacies to pick up prescriptions and bring them home and make soup and grilled cheese sandwiches for everybody.

I'm just a caretaker today. And I may not... I'm sorry. I'm sorry, because there's nothing worse. Well, there's nothing worse than feeling sick. I may not sound great, but I actually... But I actually, that's worse. We're struggling to breathe. I may sound awful, but I actually feel great today.

I didn't feel great yesterday or the day before, but I actually feel great today. So I think I'm on the backside of whatever this was. But that's why we're starting it a little bit late today. But it's a good thing we did because the news about Cornelius Lucas came out, two-year deal. so Washington's adding to the depth of their offensive line, which I think is a priority. And one of the conversations we're going to have on the show today is about what the next thing they should do. And also, we're going to talk about Terry McLaurin because somebody, a good friend, Kevin McClinton, Harold McClinton's son, Darren McClinton's brother, both of whom listened to the podcast and listen to the radio show, long time, great athletes in the area, great college basketball players. and great guys. Kevin suggested something to me via a text message that I want to read to you

here in a little bit about the football team that made me think about something. So we will do that. It deals with Terry McCorn. So we will deal with that. I did want to start with just yesterday, and we didn't talk about this on the podcast yesterday, because it was just so good to be back and be doing a show. But yesterday morning on the radio show, I read a statement on behalf of the station that the station was not getting or not keeping the Washington commanders games anymore on radio. You know, we've had the games on the station since 2008. I've been a part. I was a part of the game day broadcast from 2006 until 2018. 13 years doing the pregame show, the official pregame show, which by the way, I always loved. You were a contributor to the pregame show. Remember when you used to, you did like this pre-recorded thing each week, and then you stopped doing it for some reason.

What was that thing that you used to do? Well, yeah, it was like an audio column. It was like an audio column, yeah. And I'm sure I stopped doing it because I was told to stop doing it at some point. So it wasn't because you said, I don't want to do this anymore. No, I'm sure at some point I was told, you know, don't do that anymore. Well, I always thought it was really good, and it was. Because it was always like a quick, look, your columns can be read in 30 seconds,

and this radio column you did was like a 20-second piece. It wasn't very hard, but it was always very good. But anyway, for years being on the station that had, the rights to the games and being the flagship station. You know, we both, all of us at the station, were participants, and I was the pregame show host for 13 years. The first two years, I also did post-game show with Joe Jacoby, which was actually one of my favorite things to ever do.

Working with Jake was such a pleasure. But I loved doing that show. You know I did, because I thought it was really good exposure for our show, which, by the way, I always felt like Tony's show and being a part of Tony's show was always a good way to sort of promote the show that you and I did together on middays because those were two high profile spots. And so I always felt like it was really good to do it. And by the way, it was like it was a big deal to do it there for a while.

I mean, God, working with, I mean, my favorite thing to do of all time on that pregame show now that I'm thinking about it was my conversations. with Sonny Jorgensen every week. You know, for somebody like me who grew up, you know, as a lifelong fan and who remembers Sunny at the end of his career in the sunny Billy Days to sit there every Sunday for like 12, 13 years and do, you know, what would always turn out to be 20 minutes and it was supposed to be eight with Sonny Jurgensen before a game was really one of the pleasures. and honors of doing this job over the years.

And then every week having Doc on and doing the Doc thing was certainly as entertaining as anything. And remember, I would have Sam Huff on the show every week. And nothing was more unpredictable than the discussions with Sam Huff. You didn't know what you were going to get from Sam there. And sometimes the in-between commercial, break stuff with Sam would have been just, I mean, I would love to go back and listen to some of that stuff. With Sam yelling down the line on road games or if I was out in the tent outside the

stadium for home games, what is Kevin, what are we going to talk about? And then he'd be screaming and F bombs dropping left and right. And then Sam was always great. And then, you know, getting to work with all the people that we got to work with, you know, and Galdi and, you know, Bram and I co-hosted the show, you know, Russell was a part of it and lots of different people. It was always fun. Anyway, you know, the pregame and the post game show, the post game show was always a big deal. It's always a big deal in any market. And Galdi did it so well. Jackson's done it so well. You know, Andy did it for so long. But anyway, it was the booth, you know, of Frank, Sam, and Sonny. That's the iconic booth of all time.

No disrespect to Buck and Phil. I would say on the radio slash television sports broadcast booths in the history of this town, Frank, Sonny and Sam are number one, buck and fill number two, and Joe and, Joe and Locker number three. What do you think? I would agree with that. I would agree with that. You know what? You know what? You know what?

I think I put Joe in locker number two. Ahead of Buck and Phil? Yeah. I mean, they called Stanley Cup season. I can't do that just because I'm more of a wizard's guy. I mean, Bucket Phil. Buck and Phil bless their heart. You know, God, I wish they were still doing the games.

I might listen to them while I was driving around at night if they were. and they called a lot of bad basketball. They did. But let me just say this. Joe Beninati and Craig Lachlan are phenomenal together. And I'm not, as you know, and I don't think it's your thing either, even though you follow it probably more closely than I do. I'm not a hockey guy, but those guys are great.

Joe, by the way, is great at everything he does, calling a football game, calling a lacrosse game. You know, he calls some big-time lacrosse games. He's just, he is just an absolute top-tier play-by-play guy. Buck is the same to me. But Buck and Phil, just because I'm a Wizards fan and because Buck is one of my longtime friends, is number two. By the way, I don't want to discount Johnny and Chris Nakke doing Maryland. basketball games. Wait a minute. Wait a minute.

The next one, if we're going to do a next one, is Charlie and Dave on the radio. Charlie and Dave are great. By the way, I'm a big, big Dave fan. I think Dave Jagger is phenomenal. They've been doing it since 2007. I know. Okay? And they call the World Series season.

Yeah. I mean, I would put Charlie and Dave right behind Buck and Phil. Johnny Holliday has been calling Maryland football and Maryland basketball games since 1979. I believe my math would put that at 43 years. And he has called a national championship game himself. Yes. Well, that would put him at the top of the solo list. Well, he did games with Greg Manning and then Chris Knocky.

Yeah. I know that. I know that. I mean, if you were doing a solo list, Johnny Holliday would be at the top. Why don't we just keep it to the pro list? That'll make it, that'll separate it a little bit more easily. The pro list is Frank Sam Sonny number one. I don't think Buck Phil, Joe and Locker, Charlie and Dave, I don't think any of them would argue with that, right? None of them would. Okay, but again, if we're going to separate it, you know, Sunny, Sam, and Frank were radio. Okay? Yeah. Buck and Phil and Joe and Locker are TV. I understand that.

I mean, those guys would tell you there's two different ways to call on those things. Yeah, but you're not, I mean, look, Dave Johnson is one of the all-time hardest working people in our business. And by the way, I love Glenn too. And I think they do a great job. But if we're just going to do it to radio now, we now have to consider Dave. Well, no. Because if we're going to talk about all-time radio booths in this town, well, then Frank doing Bullets games solo is right there with Mel Proctor a close second.

Tommy, Mel Proctor was unbelievably good on radio. Unbelievably good calling Bullets games. Because he's the one that replaced Herzog on radio. Herzog left after the championship in 78, and Proctor took over for him. And I don't know how long he did Bullets games because he immediately started to do those games on television before Buck did and did the Orioles games on television.

Did you know him at all? I knew Mel very well when he was doing Orioles games. Great guy, great announcer. Great announcer. And he did the NAS games on Masson in 2005 when nobody was watching them because they weren't on cable. They weren't on Comcast at the time because of the dispute. So it was Mel and Ron Darling and nobody watching.

You know what? I remember that first year, and I remember them doing that. I remember listening to Charlie, too, because that first year having baseball back was so exciting. And there were nights where I was up listening to those games late into the night. Especially remember with Alfonso Soriano and company when they started 50 and 39. They were 11 games. No, no, 50 and 31. They were 19 games. You get your years mixed up, buddy. What do you mean? mixed up. Soriano was not 2005. That's a 2005 season. Soriano didn't come along until 2006. Wasn't it their first season that they were 50 and

31 at the break? Yes, they were, but Soriano was not on the team. Okay, so the 2005 season didn't include Soriano, so it was just it was the Christian Guzman team because I'm looking at the the bobblehead doll that you brought in for me. It was Brad Wilkinson.

It was Brad Wilkerson. Wilkerson, it was Jose Gien. Yeah. It was Nick Johnson. It was Vinnie Castilla. Brian Schneider. It was that group. Yes, that group.

And the pitchers, so LeVon Hernandez was their number one. And they had, they had, what's his face in the bullpen? Chad Cordero. Chad Cordero. Yeah. They had Chad Cordero, and they had a young pitcher named John Patterson. Yes. Who was very promising.

Right. And it's very outstanding. They're top, they're three pitchers. Top three pitchers in 2005. Really did a great job. The third one was Esteban Loiza, and he pitched well for them as well. And then he went to jail, as I recall. Not too long ago, let me see if I could find it for some kind of serious drug case.

I just pulled up. But he was their third starter. I just pulled up the team, all right? Brian Schneider catcher, Nick Johnson, first base, Jose Vedro second base. Jose Vigrero second base. Christian Guzman short, Vinnie Castilla third, Marlon Byrd, Brad Wilkerson, and Jose Gien in the outfield. Gian was really God, man, he had some swag to him.

I remember a series, Tommy, correct me if I'm wrong, but it was like a series against the Angels and didn't he get into it with the Angels manager at the time, Socia? I think there was like a... Frank, yeah. No, Jose Gian did. And then Frank probably came out too.

Oh, yeah, because Gian played for the Angels before. Guillain, listen, Gian was a loser cannon, man. and that's pretty kindly. You know, he could be very nice to you. I mean, really nice to you. And then he could be the scariest guy you'd encounter that year. Levan Hernandez, Esteban Loiza, John Patterson,

Tony Armos, and Ryan Dries were the starting pitchers. Cordero was the closer. They had Carrasco, Iala, and Joey Aysian. Yes, Jelly Ishen, a fan favorite. Right. Very quotable guy. Very quotable guy. There's like a famous quote with him that's not coming to my mind.

But I just pulled up the schedule that year, 50 and 31. They were 50 and 31 in their first year in Washington in first place, 19 games above 500 at the halfway mark on Sunday, July 3rd, 2005. Of course, they didn't finish in a favorable spot. They finished 81 and 81, $500 in that first year, and in fifth place in the division. God, was the division that clear? There was no losing team in the NLE that year. You're right. There it is. The natural at the bottom, and they went 500, and that's who they were.

You know, people bitched and moaned about how they blew the leave they had. But this is why there's 162 game season. They pretty much honestly even out who you are. And they were lucky to be a 500 team. So that's pretty much who they were. Esteban Loiza was arrested in February 2018 with 44 pounds of cocaine, according to San Diego County Sheriff's Department. He wound up pleading guilty and was sentenced to three years in prison in 2019,

and he was released at 2021 and deported to Mexico. All right. So Soriano wasn't that first year. Soriano was the second year, but I think I was still staying up late and listening to games that second year because I was still really excited to have baseball back. But they sucked the next year.

But Soriano, tell me right now, was it that season that he was at one point, like a legit MVP candidate? Well, yeah, I mean, he was, he, uh, I mean, the home runs he was hitting. Right. Uh, were, we're just remarkable. Uh, and in fact, they started batten him lead off near the end of the year, so he'd have a chance to hit more home runs. Right.

You know? And the thing was when he first, you know, he was a second baseman when they got him from Texas. Yeah. Uh, and he was a butcher at second base. Okay. And, uh, you know, uh, uh, you know, uh, uh, The Nats and Jim Bowden were going to force him to play left field. That Soriano refused to first and didn't report the spring training.

And this was a big drama. He didn't first come. The spring training was refusing to come because he didn't want to play the outfield. But he had 46 home runs that year. Yeah, I'm looking at it right now. 46. And drove in 96 runs, I think. 95 runs.

And stole 41 bases. 40-40 guy. That's unbelievable. He was, yeah, he was the star of the team, no doubt. And it was a bad team. And it continued to be a bad team until we got to 2012. And it came a little bit early, but they made the playoffs that year. And game five against St. Louis didn't go really well.

Anyway, you know what? every time I think about talking about like the radio business, it's such kind of inside baseball stuff. But I was surprised yesterday at how many people cared about this. I did not expect, you know, you and I finished recording the podcast. I got done. I looked at my phone. There were like 50 text messages.

Many of them were like from reporters wanting a quote from me about this. I'm like, what? But, you know, the net of it is, for anybody that followed the drama, we don't have the games anymore on 980. They're going to go to another station. I can't tell you who the other station is, because I don't know for sure. I've heard rumors as to who it's going to be,

but I was asked by the station to put out a statement on the radio show yesterday, which I did, and then all hell broke loose. And, you know, the bottom line is, is that people took the statement and just assumed because everybody's been dumping Washington as a partner that 980 dumped Washington. But that's actually not true. We were very interested in keeping the games. We bid on the games. We submitted multiple proposals for the games.

But there was a threshold in which the company was not going to go over. to keeping the games and someone else apparently was willing to go much beyond that. And that's just business. It's the way it went. And so there were headlines out there that 9-80, the latest to dump, you know, the Washington football team is a relationship. I mean, they've earned that over the years, clearly. You know, they've...

That's the problem. The problem is people want to believe the worst. About them. Because they've earned that reputation. Yes. I mean, this is the baggage that comes for doing bad business. Right. You know, people are going to believe that you're capable,

that you're on the wrong side of everything. And is that fair? Well, you know, then you should have been on the right side a little bit more. Then maybe people wouldn't believe the worst of you. Yeah, like I think that there's some truth in that. Now, it's unfair what happened yesterday. And I did want to point to something because part of the statement that I read yesterday that I was asked to read included a part where, hold on for a second, it's here. You know, it was the team in our company disagreed on the value of the broadcast.

It was also important for us to continue to be able to provide honest objective information and analysis about the team. and several people concluded from that particular statement, oh, well, the team wanted editorial control over the radio station. Well, that's not necessarily true. But I will tell you that if you thought that part of the statement implied that they've had an issue with the way the stations discussed them, you know, certainly recently with the Sean Taylor debacle, with the rollout of the new name, with the crest, etc., if you believe that that was an indication that the team isn't very happy and wasn't very happy

with the way we handled that, you're not wrong to think that. Was it an issue for them as to why they didn't pick us to continue to be their radio partner? I doubt that that was it. I think it was probably more about somebody wanting to pay more. But anyway, it's funny because I, on one hand, it's weird. that we're not going to have the games on the station anymore because for as long as I've been on the station, we've had the games, pretty much. But at the same time, radio play-by-play broadcasting is not the same beast that it used to be. There are lots of reasons for that, but it's not what it used to be. I mean,

you can do the simple math on this. you know, when they're out and about, can still watch games on their phone. You know, if somebody has the choice of watching a game or listening to a game, they're going to watch the game, clearly. Well, you know, the radio broadcasts have always been, you know, especially with winning teams, with, you know, iconic broadcast groups, they've always been, you know, you're out in your car, you're out and about, you're going to listen to the games that way. For many people, for many years, especially with Frank Sonny and Sam, and I'll tell you this,

with Cooley and Doc there for a few years, we're always trying to sync up, you know, the audio with the TV. But that's really kind of been a dying fat. I think there's some people out there that are older than 65 years old that might be trying to do that. It's actually hard to do now, almost impossible to do. But the bottom line is it's not as important anymore.

but at the same time, it'll be weird not to have the games on the station. But the station's not going to change any because we're not carrying the games. You know, when I was out that one year, as you very well know, when we had put together a group to try to buy a local radio station, we weren't going to have the games. And to be honest with you, I had no interest in paying for the games because it's not necessarily a profitable venture. Most radio stations that are the flagship home for an NFL team as an example,

they pay rights fees and sometimes they pencil out as marginally profitable and sometimes they pencil out as a loss, but they feel like there's another benefit to that. And in the past, that was true. I think many would argue that that incremental additional benefit, if you will, is less than it used to be. But still, again, it'll be weird not to be on the station with the games. And the station's going to have lots of game day coverage. Remember, when 980 had the games, 1067, the other sports talk station in town,

was still doing a pregame show, was still doing a post-game show. And when 980 didn't have the games, they were still doing a pre-game show and not doing a post-game show years ago. people still love, by the way, the post-game shows and the pre-game shows, post-game shows in particular, because it's like this, you know, it's like this community of, you know, either celebrating a win or wallowing in a loss together. And also, also, that's one of the times where radio works because you're usually in your car driving home. Right.

You know, not for a road game, but yeah, exactly. But 980 is going to have lots of coverage, four hours of pregame in the fall, a new show that will happen during the game, which will feature kind of analysis and fan reaction of the game. And then we'll, you know, in-game betting stuff, full post-game show. So it's still going to be a place where, you know, during the course of the day, you're going to be able to tune in for game day coverage. But anyway, whatever. You know, I don't know the economics of it.

Everything you said about sports radio, live broadcasts, how it's diminished in an impact compared to what it was 20, 30 years ago is all true. But I still think it has an impact in baseball. Oh, no doubt, because it's 162 games. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I still think has an impact in baseball.

Tommy, I will tell you this right now. Having play-by-play rights for baseball especially, you know, every town is different, but I'll just tell you in this town, for baseball and then even for basketball and hockey where there are, you know, 82 dates. And by the way, 41 home dates and 81 home dates in baseball, the in stadium marketing alone is worth. the relationship. You know, when you're watching a Nats game and you see 106-7 the fan out in left field, night in and night out, over and over again, it is a, the marketing benefits to being so exposed for so many dates out of the year is a huge win.

And yet, the rights fees for baseball and basketball and hockey aren't anywhere near what they are for football. And football only has 16 games or 17 games a year and only 8 to 9 home games a year. Which, by the way, I'll just add real quickly, you know, the relationship as you and I have talked about over the years between the team and the station, even though we were the flagship partner, I use that term loosely, was never, never beneficial from a marketing standpoint. They hated the station. They absolutely was an antagonistic relationship. And when you went to FedEx Field, you barely knew 9-80 was actually the partner. But anyway, whatever.

I wanted to read something to you from, as I mentioned, Kevin McClinton, because it sparked a thought that I think we can have a conversation with. We'll get to the Sweet 16 games, which start tonight as well. And we'll start doing all of that right after these words from a few of our sponsors. So on the radio show this morning, I had Stephen Specter on the show, Tommy. Stephen, of course, was a longtime producer at 980. Steven's the guy that was on the air with me when you were off the day of the earthquake in August of 2011, which we played that audio before.

We're not going to play it right now. But anyway, Stephen, I had them on to talk about the Tarik Hill trade to Miami, which really is an unbelievable trade. You know, it's consistent now in this offseason of receivers getting dealt. Amari Cooper, Devante Adams, you know, et cetera. And now the Hill deal. And Kevin McClinton, Kevin was a great athlete at Springbrook in Silver Spring, was Gary Williams' starting point guard at Maryland during the probation years.

Darren, his brother is a friend of mine. Darren interned at the station. Darren coached one of my boys, trained one of the boys, trained one of the, the others. He's a big-time trainer, a basketball trainer in the area. And Darren, by the way, had one of the more successful international professional basketball careers. And I think he is either the all-time leading score at James Madison or maybe he's second on the list. I forget. But he played for lefty. You met Darren when he was interning for us, didn't you? Or not? Yes. Yes, I did. Darren was just great guy. So Darren and Kevin are brothers. I've had Kevin on the show before. I've had

Darren on the show before. Kevin sent me a text earlier today. What's up, buddy? Hope you're doing well. This offseason's been nuts. Consider this. Any chance you would trade Terry, as in Terry McLorne, this Taree Kill situation really has me thinking, you can get a really good receiver in this draft and you can get picks. I'm thinking a first and a third for McLorne, what are your thoughts? Hmm. Well, my first reaction was they're not going to trade Terry McLorne. They're going to try to sign him to a long-term extension. But we've been surprised here. The Devante Adams thing was a shocker. The Tarique Hill thing was a stunner yesterday. And let me be clear about this. I love Terry McLorn. He's not in the class of Devante Adams or Tarique Hill.

these are elite number ones. You could basically say they're the two best in the game. I mean, D'Andre Hopkins is obviously in the conversation. But I sent him, this is what I texted back to Kevin. I said, I said, I don't think a first and a third for Terry McClorn. I think a second and a third for McClorn, as good as we think he is, he's still more likely than not perceived more. in the top 12 to top 15 range.

You know, not in the Tariq Hill, Devante Adams, DeAndre Hopkins, Stefan Diggs, et cetera, range. He's perceived as a really strong number one with a big upside, but nobody at this point, and maybe it's because of the quarterbacks he's played for, but nobody's going to call Terry McCorn elite at this point.

They're just going to say, wow, what a great young receiver. He's clearly a big time number one. Washington's got themselves a guy. But what has the talk been here in the offseason? It's been you've got to get another guy opposite Terry McClorn. Look, guys, he only had 77 catches last year for just barely over 1,000 yards and five touchdowns. Those are not elite numbers.

But the other part, too, with Terry McClorn, just to be clear, is the team that trades form would have to know that they're going to be able to sign him. to a long-term contract extension. You're not trading for Terry McClorn, even just a second and a third, without knowing that he's going to sign long-term with you. That's where Washington is right now. Washington is in the,

we've got to sign Terry long-term, but Terry and his agent might be thinking, I got to see if Carson Wentz is going to be a good quarterback. You know, at some point, at some point, if you're really going to be, a good team. You got to keep your good players. I mean, you got to start keeping your good players. You know, you can't always, you can't always think, well, I'm going to trade one of my good players and get a better player. You know, you can't be thinking like that. You have to keep your good player.

You have to keep Jonathan Allen. You have to keep Terry McLaurin. You got to keep a handful of good players you've got. I don't disagree with you, but you also can't let Terry McClorn walk a year from now for a compensatory pick? No, you can't. No, absolutely not. If you're convinced you can't sign him, then you deal them. You don't do that. You don't just let it play out. You mean, you've got to get him under contract. I mean, the whole idea, supposedly isn't the idea, was the cutting of Matt Ionitis because of the Carson Went steel or a combination of the Carson Wentz-Dill and their desire to sign Terry McLaurin.

Well, I think it's a desire to do a lot of things. They had to create more space with flowers. They had Norwell ready to go to replace flowers for a lot less money. So that actually is a pretty damn good move by them. If they consider Norwell to be flowers equal, Norwell is not Brandon Sheriff's sequel. West Schweitzer is not an apples-to-apples replacement for, Brandon Sheriff. But yeah, the $28 million for Wentz means that they were going to have to do some of

those things that maybe they weren't planning on doing. And part of that calculus is to resign not only guys like Bobby McCain and J.D. McKissick and, you know, Cam Sims and, you know, they resigned today, Cornelius Lucas. They signed another defensive end. By the way, the defensive end that they signed, oh, God, the guy's name, I'll come up with it here in a moment. it's a guy that originally played for Carolina. He actually looks like a pretty good deal, like a pretty decent backup defensive end. But whatever.

We'll get to that in a moment. Yes, part of it would be to kind of clear some room so that they can really make a run, not only for Terry McLorn, but I would think at this point since Settle and Ionitis are gone, Duran Payne as well. Yes. you know and okay would it be a disappointment if the season started without one of those guys signed to a long-term deal

it would be risky it would be risky would you be disappointed uh i don't get disappointed a lot anymore about this stuff i know i know the minute i ask you about what do you think no i'm putting myself back in my old shoes but also my My analysis shoes. I think, yeah, I think you want Terry McLaren signed to a long-term deal now. And yet I understand if I'm Terry McLaren's agent, I would say, you know, you might have even more leverage a year from now with a better quarterback, because they do have a better quarterback, no matter what you think of Wentz.

And oh, by the way, you might have Curtis Samuel back, And you might have a healthy J.D. McKissick and Logan Thomas, and the field might open up for you where it kind of closed down, which is true when you started to lose some of those players. And next year you might be at, you know, 106 catches and 1,300 yards and 13 touchdowns. And now they're going to have to pay up or we hit free agency and it's, you know, back a Brink's truck up. Or they'll have to franchise tag.

you. Yeah. Now, no matter what J.D. McKissick thinks and bless them, you know, that in the end he felt he had, quote, unfinished business here in Washington. But I would think that most players, if they're reasonable, intelligent people who are drafted by this team, and then when they have the opportunity to decide where to play, would look to get out. Yeah.

I mean, you know, keeping with the theme. Keeping with our theme. Yeah, I mean, I don't know what Terry thinks. What I've heard is that Terry really likes it here. You know, Tommy, JD... Well, that may be, but I mean, but stuff, if you're advising him, what would you tell him? If I'm advising him, it would have to be one MFing killer deal from Washington for me to sign a long-term extension here.

Yes. It has to be a godfather offer you can't refuse deal. And you know what? Washington has a player who's really good, who's a clear number one in this league. You know, even if you think like I do that you could name 10 guys that are better, you can't name 15 that are better. and more importantly, Terry McClurene is part of what Ron Rivera has preached a lot about since he got here, which is a culture change. This is a first-rate person that you want in your organization, you want on your team, you want in your locker room. Now, let me just mention, because Kevin McClinton mentioned this to me, and I did read this earlier, that Ron Rivera is at the Ohio State, and I think he's also at the same.

Cincinnati, Desmond Ritter, hello, also sauce gardener. I understand that too as a possibility. But he was at the Ohio State Pro Day and Ohio State's got, you know, some receivers again coming out in his draft. You know, Garrett Wilson, Chris Olivae, you know, so these are guys that are potentially going to be there at 11. And he said, do you think Rivera's there because maybe they'll trade McLaren? No, I don't. I think that they are there probably to look at those receivers, definitely, but because they'd like to line up a number two receiver that's really good, that by the way, also played with Terry McLoran. Maybe, I don't know if they did or not,

and give him even more room and give Wents even more, you know, options offensively. Yeah, let's remember. Let's remember. Terry McLaren was a third-round draft pick. Maybe there's another third-round draft pick. out there for them. Yeah. Yeah.

I want to just add to this. I personally, I know many of you feel differently about this, I would be surprised if they took a receiver at 11. And I think one of the reasons I would be surprised, I don't know what they're thinking, but I would be surprised because I think that they think, I don't know this, but I think they, they think if they're healthy, they're all good on the playmaker front offensively.

You may disagree with that. But with McClearn, with Curtis Samuel back, you know, if he's healthy, which they want him, you know, hopefully year two, if not, then it's really truly a disaster in terms of last year's free agent signing, with Logan Thomas back, with J.D. McKissick and Antonio Gibson back. And I'm telling you, they really have high hopes. for Diami Brown. You might not. They do.

I would be surprised if, and they re-signed Cam Sims, let's not forget about that, I would be really surprised if they took a receiver at 11. And I know many of you listening are like they've got to add, you know, if Garrett Wilson is there, you know, they've got at them. If Traylon Burks or if Chris Olive, any of these big time receivers, they got to get another receiver. They got to, James and Williams, they got to get another receiver.

for Wenson to make it easier on Terry. I think that they believe, again, I don't know this, but we've heard him talk favorably about, I asked Ron Rivera at one point last year, who have you missed the most of the players that haven't played? And he said, well, Curtis would be the obvious answer, but it's Logan Thomas. And I think he really felt like Taylor Heineke really relied on Logan Thomas. Well, Carson- I think that makes a lot of sense. Well, guess who loves thrown to a tight end. Guess who loves throwing to the tight end? Carson Wentz. Just ask Zach Hertz. So it would surprise me if A, they traded Terry McLorne and B, if they drafted a receiver, and then C, if they didn't make an aggressive run to re-sign McLaren. Now, if they don't make an

aggressive run to resign McLaren, then they should be thinking about trading them right now. They should. but I'm with you. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I just, if I'm advising him, I'm telling him, look, there are better places to be in business than here in Washington, and they'll want you. And I think if you're Washington, you've got to give Terry McLaurin a reason to stay besides the way you do business, and that would mean money, lots of it.

So, by the way, can I say something? Yeah. As a brief aside, you know, you mentioned Zach Hertz. Okay. I know you're going to edit this out of the podcast, okay? Because it's so childish. Okay. Okay.

But every time you say, every time I hear Zach Hertz's name, and I know it's spelled differently, I always think of back in high school when we had a substitute teacher. and, you know, she didn't know who was supposed to be in a class, so she would hand out a sign-up form for everyone to sign their names to take attendance. And then she would read the names out loud. Is this going to end up with Dick Hurtz? Yes. Of course.

It's so predictable. Well, but Zach Hurt, I always think of that. I never not think of Dick Hurt. Why would I edit this out of the podcast? Even though that's not spell his name that way. No. It's ERTZ. We would write in,

we would write in Richard Hertz. That's what we would write in. And then Richard Hertz and we'd say, no, Dick isn't here. Oh, Dick Hertz isn't here. Anyway, now let's get back to Terry McClure. Okay, please. What you said initially is what I would think they're thinking, which is you've got a really good point.

player and a really good locker room guy, you got to keep those guys. You know, so you've got to figure out a way to make him want to be here and then offer him a deal that makes him want to sign to stay here. And I think, you know, again, if I'm, if I think part of, part of what the Went Steele could have been about, too, is we got to give Terry McClorn somebody, that can get him the ball, and we can't rely on Heineke while a young guy we draft is developing because Terry might be gone. So, I don't know. Here's the other thing that I wanted to talk about.

So I saw, J.D. McKissick apparently spoke today to the media, and J.P. Finley tweeted this out. J.D. McKissick says that everything that happened during free agency is business, and that's just how things go. he believes that without the injuries late last year, the commanders were a playoff team. Well, last year, by the way, let me just correct, JP, the Washington football team would have been a playoff team if they had made the playoffs. I don't agree with J.D. McKissick on that at all. I don't think they would have been a playoff team at all. But this is exactly the way the staff feels. The loss of not just the last. J.D. McKissick. But, you know, Logan Thomas and not having Curtis Samuel, but that had been going on for a while. During that four-game win streak, they had J.D. McKissick before he got hurt in the Oakland game,

right? I think it was the Oakland game, which was the last of the four wins. When they lost McKissick and COVID hit, and they had the COVID outbreak, they do believe that that derailed what would have been a second consecutive playoff season. Do you agree with them, Tommy? No. No, I don't agree with that. I think they were far more, they're more limited than they think they were in that case. And I think that, I don't, I don't even know if that puts them ahead of the Eagles, you know, let alone ahead of the Cowboys in the NFCE. So, no, I don't agree with that. But look, look, I mean, McKissick and Logan Thomas, were very important parts of that offense.

I think, like we said before, I think Hineke really missed Logan Thomas a lot. But, no, I don't agree with that assessment. But then, look, here's part of the problem is, I mean, and this is not unusual to Washington. You know, lots of teams have sometimes misguided views of what they've seen, mirror for themselves. I mean, that's not, that's typical probably more than not. Okay. But getting back to Terry McCloran one more time. Yeah. Okay. If you are the one guy in the commander's front office who is smart and perceptive enough to know exactly what this organization is and what it always will be as long as your boss, Dan Snyder,

owns the team. And you know that. Okay? Then you know your best chance to compete and have players is to have hostages. So it's players who can't leave, you know, which means constantly. Now you can't leave. Right. Which means constantly drafting players, which means trading the chlorine and getting the draft picks and bringing in other people. And how long are they, they can play? for, even if they put the franchise tag on them, you know, about five years or so. I mean, so if you're smart enough to know that, you know, most people aren't going to think

they have unfinished business in Washington, then maybe you think, well, he may be good and I love him, but he's not going to stay here and we got to trade him so we can get some other guys who can't leave. Tommy, in Bronx tale, who, why am I blankie? on not De Niro, but the other star. Chas Palmetary. Chas Palmitara. Yeah. Sorry.

Now you can't leave. One of a great scene. Now you can't leave as they close the doors of the bar with the bikers in there. So back to the question that I asked you. No, I don't think they would have been a playoff team. Had they been, had Jady McKissick and they hadn't had the COVID outbreak. And hell, I'll even throw in if they, you know, had Logan Thomas. back and Curtis Samuel healthy.

You know, I think there's a little bit of, you know, it's kind of like the 2018 revisionist history, in my opinion. This team was very, very close to being an 0 and 8 football team, people. They were 2 and 6 after the loss in Denver, and the two wins were because a guy jumped off sides for the Giants on a missed field goal where they would have lost the game and a miracle kind of throw to Terry McClorn for a touchdown and then one to J.D. McKissick at the end to beat Atlanta when they were down

by double digits in the second half. I mean, they were very close to being 0-8. Like, none of the other losses were like games they should have won. They could have lost and maybe should have lost both of the others. Don't tell me the San Diego game or the L.A. Charger game was a game they should have won. I know they had the lead. They were dominated in the game. The score was not reflective of how they were outplayed. Did they play well during that four-game win streak? They did. They really did. But during that four-game win streak, they were lucky that Russell Wilson on that

final drive that they didn't get the two-point conversion. They were also very lucky in the Raider game that Trayvon Morrig, the safety for the Raiders, just dropped the interception that was right in his hands that would have ended the game. I mean, they got beat by, before, the COVID outbreak. They got beat by the Cowboys in a game where they miraculously had a chance at the end, but they were down 27 to 8 with six minutes to go in the game. This wasn't a good football team last year. They weren't a terrible football team without COVID and with better health, but they weren't a playoff football team. They were what we thought they were before the season started and pretty much where they ended. Not for the same reasons we gave at the beginning of

the year, but they were like a seven and ten, eight and nine kind of a team. You know, if everything broke right. And that was with Ryan Fitzpatrick and Chase Young and the defense being a beast. No, I don't think that they were better than Philadelphia and Dallas for sure. I don't. I don't think they would have been a playoff team. But they would have been more competitive. I mean, they got the shit kicked out of them in Dallas on a Sunday night, which was almost unfair because they had to play the Tuesday game with Garrett Gilbert with all the COVID players and had to turn it around on short notice and, you know, they got absolutely blown out there. And, you know, they lost to Philly twice and I don't know, maybe they would have split with Philly and finished eight and nine.

You know, I'll give you that. I'll give you one more game over that, you know, final stretch. They beat the Giants in the season finale. The four-game losing streak, I'll give you that they would have won one of them. That wouldn't have been good enough for the playoffs. Let's talk about the Sweet 16. Or do you have anything else on this? No, I got nothing else on this. All right. Let's get to the Sweet 16 when we come back

right after these words from a few of our sponsors. Sweet 16 tonight, guys, if you want to bet it, go to MyBooky, use my promo code, Kevin D.C. They'll take good care of you, I promise. MyBooky.ag, mybooky.com. Use my promo code. You're going to get your first deposit match, dollar for dollar, all the way.

up to a thousand bucks. They've got everything you need on the games tonight, not just the point spreads, totals, money lines, but they've got lots of prop bets on each game as well. Go to mybooky.com or my bookie.ag and use my promo code, Kevin D.C. So a couple of things real quickly about the games for the next two nights. I know, I think I mentioned some of this yesterday, but I saw that my good friend Tim Murray just tweeted this out a little while ago. Tim said, you know, I heard Kevin Sheehan talking about this on his podcast, six players, I think it's six. I mean, I just went down the list of six. There may be more. Six from the Washington Post 2018 All-Met team are playing in the Sweet 16. Jeremy Roach from Duke, Justin Moore from Nova,

Brandon Slater from Nova, Moors-Dematha, Roach's P-VI, Slater. is PBI. Hunter Dickinson, DeMath, Terrence Williams, Gonzaga. And then Jared Bynum, who played at Georgetown Prep, the team that my son was on in 2018, finished number two in the city. Jared is the point guard for Providence. That's where I will be dialed in tonight, rooting for Jared and Providence to do well. Although they've got a tomorrow night. They play tomorrow night. They've got a tough matchup. but Tim Murray tweeting that out reminded me of something that Tim and I always talk about. And I'm going to call out somebody by name, but he's a good friend, and I love him very much.

And that's Nick Aschew. You know Nick very well. You've worked with Nick a lot over the years. Yeah. Well, Tim, you know, I don't know, maybe a year ago, told me the story that I've got this kind of little theory. It's kind of the same, you know, as the smell test. theory. I call it the neighbor Nick theory. It's when your neighbor Nick comes, you know, to the fence and says, hey, what's going on? Hey, not much. And he says, man, that's St. Peters. They beat

Kentucky, right? Yeah, they beat Kentucky. They knocked off to Kentucky. They're in the sweet 16. And then neighbor Nick says, and they're getting 12 and a half points against Purdue. And they beat Kentucky? Give me St. Peters. And that's when Tim says, thanks neighbor Nick for the information. It's very valuable and then gets to the window and bets Purdue and lays the 12 and a half.

Well, that neighbor Nick that he refers to is our good friend Nick Aschew, who does a lot of gambling-related talk. And we're just picking on him because Nick does know gambling. But Nick does seem to occasionally fall for some of these things that the general public better tends to fall for.

And I'll give you one tonight. Although the line's moving in a direction that tells me that sharp money might be against my overall theory. But I think everybody, I think a lot of college basketball fans are either rooting for Coach K or are not rooting for Coach K. He's a very polarizing figure. But there are a lot of people that think that Duke is going to make a run here. They're the two-seed.

They've gotten through to the Sweet 16, and they're playing Texas Tech. Well, just a little while ago, Texas Tech was still favored over Duke. They were a one-point favorite. Game is now down to pick them, and the public is all over Duke tonight. They were all over Duke at plus one, and they're all over Duke at a pick. That also tells me that there's some sharp money on Duke tonight as well. I like Texas Tech. They're one of the best defensive teams I've watched.

all year long. And I think Duke at times has been a little bit, I don't know, a little bit out of control, a little bit disorganized. I like Texas Tech tonight in that game, Tommy. Gonzaga's laying a huge number against Arkansas. The public loves Arkansas. I like Gonzaga there. And Villanova's late laying a pretty short number to Michigan, who's the 11 seed. I'm not rooting for Joanne Howard here, but I kind of like Michigan plus the five. The other game tonight is my favorite coach tonight of all of them, and that is Kelvin Sampson at Houston. They're getting a point in a half against Arizona. Are you going to watch any of these games? Yeah. I'll watch the Gonzaga game. Absolutely. I'll watch these games.

Okay. Absolutely. I like Gonzaga, Villanova, Texas Tech, and Houston. I like Houston, too. I like Houston also. God, you know, every time I talk about Houston, They made the final four last year. And that was huge for Kelvin Sampson. You know, Gary Williams and I were talking about Kelvin Sampson the other day when he came on the radio show to talk about Kevin Willard. You know, when Maryland won the national championship 20 years ago, they played Indiana in the final.

Well, they played Indiana in the final because Indiana upset Duke in the Sweet 16 because most people thought we were going to get a Maryland Duke NCAA tournament final. Like if you, that year, went through all the brackets, it was probably Maryland Duke in the fine. You know, people either had Maryland or Duke to win the whole thing. Maryland got Kansas in one semifinal, and Indiana played Kelvin Sampson's Oklahoma team in the other semifinal. Oklahoma was favored, and Oklahoma had beaten Maryland earlier in the year. And Gary talked about that game. He said it was a very poorly scheduled a game that particular year because they had scheduled Oklahoma off of a long break because of final exams.

And they went out to Norman and they got smoked. You know, it was one of the games that Maryland lost that year was to Oklahoma during the regular season. And he said they were a really good team. and that Kelvin Sampson was an excellent coach, and that would have been probably a much more difficult championship matchup for them than Indiana was. You know, Indiana provided a pretty stiff test when all was said and done. Maryland won by 12, you know, ultimately. But, you know, Oklahoma had beaten them by 16 in December out in Norman, Oklahoma.

Boy, Gary did schedule. Do you know, like the national championship year? the non-conference. They played Arizona, Temple. Both of those games were early in the year at Madison Square Garden. They played Illinois. They played Yukon. And they played Oklahoma, all in the non-conference before they got to the ACC schedule. But they would have faced Kelvin Samson. But Kelvin Samson, Tommy, if what happened to him at Indiana, which by the way would be totally legal now, you know, sending all those text messages or whatever, you know, at the time. And I'm not even sure he really knew what text messages were. And they ran him after two years. By the way, he went

43 and 15 in his first two years at Indiana, 21 and 8 in the Big Ten. If he hadn't gotten run, Indiana for the last decade plus would have been an absolute juggernaut powerhouse under Kelvin Samson. I guarantee you, you ask any Indiana fan, that's their best. They're biggest regret of the last 15 years. And Indiana remembers coming off the Bob night years. They couldn't, you know, with the controversy, they couldn't carry the baggage at that point. It's kind of minor baggage when you think about it. He's a hell of a coach, you know.

Unbelievable coach. Yeah, no, he's a hell of a coach. No one has ever questions as coaching. No. That's for sure. I mean, his record, listen to this. Like, his total overall record is 697 and 340. But in good leagues, okay?

He was in the PAC 12 with Washington State, went to the tournament and won 20 games twice there. Then Oklahoma obviously made it to a final four in elite eight and multiple sweet 16s at Oklahoma, where he, you know, in the big, in the Big 12, it was the Big 12 at that point, he went, he won 68% of his games in the Big 12. Indiana, he won 72% of his games in, you know, a year and a half, basically. And at Houston, you know, in the AAC, which has been a decent league, he is 143 in league play, basically a 700 winning percentage overall. unbelievable coach, unbelievable defensive coach, too. I just love watching Kelvin Samson's teams.

So I'm looking forward. Tonight's going to be one of those nights. I might have to do some sort of quick 30-minute nap before all these games start because they won't be over until 1 a.m. Or something approaching that. But I'm looking forward to the games tonight. I really am. I'm glad you're going to watch them.

I'm actually a little bit surprised because I don't know that you've been paying attention to the tournament. I watched a couple games. I watched Kansas and Creighton that I recall. I watched that game. That was a good game. Creight had them on the ropes until the end. So, yeah, I've been watching it.

Yeah. Okay, so do we have anything else on the Sweet 16? I got nothing else. Look, the countdown on K is, you know, is big time here. I mean, they play, you know, in their, first two games of the tournament, they were able to knock off Michigan State after trailing by five with about four minutes to go, winning by nine. That was a bad beat, by the way, if you had Michigan State plus seven, which I did. And Texas Tech, you know, beat Notre Dame,

crushed Montana State. This should be a great game tonight, and could be the final game that Shoshchevsky coaches. And then you got Villanova, man. A lot of people now think Villanova's got a chance to make the run and finish it off. I don't know. I think Michigan's going to be tough tonight. I like three dogs. Well, I like a pick-em game in Texas Tech.

Houston, Michigan, and I like Gonzagelang the number only because it's kind of high. And I think people are going to be on Arkansas. Arkansas also super well-coached by Eric Musselman. tomorrow I have some, you know, general ideas or picks. I can tell you Purdue, courtesy of the neighbor Nick theory, will be one of those picks tomorrow night. Okay, do you have anything else? Oh, you do have something else.

You do have something else. The Deshawn Watson News. Oh, yeah, okay. That's right. I forgot about that. According to a report that Deshaun Watson is facing another grand jury investigation into one of the sexual harassment complaints. Basically, a Harris County grand jury had rejected the nine criminal cases against Watson earlier this year.

But a tent complaint filed with the Houston police described an incident that took place in a different county. So that county has convened a grand jury and has presented this case before a grand jury. In this case, a woman is charged that Watson ejaculated on her in November 2020 massage. And this guy just got $240 million. $230 million. But so much of it guaranteed. guaranteed.

Yes. I told you yesterday that the risk here is if, you know, one of these civil lawsuits generates something that, you know, then leads to another criminal, you know, grand jury review. This could be devastating to a franchise. Devastating. It wasn't the trade. It was the money.

And guaranteeing it. And I told you that they, I told you. that they did not do their due diligence on this thing. From all the reports I read that you know, the lawyer representing all the women said they never got a call

or from the Browns or any franchise about what they should be worried about. It says... Or at least inquire. It says that this second grand jury in Texas is right now just considering evidence related to another accusation. Yes. Yeah, they're investigating

it. Right. Yeah. I didn't say they charged them. Right. No, no, no. But what they're considering the evidence, it's not a given yet that it'll go in front of a grand jury to consider for indictment yet. So we'll see.

But still, it's a big story right now, trending, lead story on ESPN.com. Okay. We're done. We're done for the day. I'll be back tomorrow. Have a good one. Take a nap. buddy.