The Kevin Trudeau Show LIMITLESS - How to Start a Small Business or Side Hustle in 2025 Mark Kohler's Secrets! | Ep 107

Episode Date: July 2, 2025

Want to escape the 9-5?  Learn how to start a side hustle or small business so you can make MORE money and  KEEP MORE of it. Mark Kohler is America's #1 Tax & Legal expert, with 25+ years of experience helping entrepreneurs build lasting wealth!  In this must-watch Limitless episode, he shares the proven INSIDER WEALTH strategies to make more money, PAY LESS in taxes (legally), and avoid the most common mistakes that cost new business owners thousands. There are the real "secrets" of how the elite play the system- and you can, too! Don't just hustle. HUSTLE SMART!  WATCH NOW AND SUBSCRIBE FOR MORE.  Timestamps:00:00 Meet Mark Kohler03:48 The 4 Phases of Business08:59 Should You Start a Side Hustle?12:34 How to Save on Taxes for your Small Business19:10 Tax Rates vs. ‘Effective’ Tax Rates 21:56 Recommendations for a Small Business Owner24:19 Working with your accountant26:15 The Best Small Business Ideas29:58 The Magic of a Roth IRA34:02 Where to Find Mark Kohler*******************************************************************************"How To Stay Young & Fit Forever: No B.S. Biohacking From A Fitness Rebel" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7n-ZOnnRf4"How To Beat Depression NOW!" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mbmrX4NWoU*******************************************************************************1.) Remove the invisible barriers to wealth with the money processes: https://www.buymoneyprocesses.com/spotify 2.) Learn how to become a “Prosperity and Luck Attractor Field with “The Ultimate Success Course:” https://www.claimyourwish.com*******************************************************************************FREE TRAINING:[https://gurukev.com][https://nuggetsofgold.com][https://t.me/TheKevinTrudeauFanClubChannel]#KevinTrudeau #KevinTrudeauShow #TheKevinTrudeauShow #TheKevinTrudeauShowLimitless #SideHustle2025 #SideHustleTips  #SmallBusinessTips  #MarkKohler #SmallBusinessTax #Entrepreneur2025 #MakeMoney #TaxStrategy #WealthBuilding #BusinessHacks

If somebody's watching and they're a small business owner, they have a side hustle, what is one recommendation that you would tell them? Here it is. Mega backdoor Roth. Peter Thiel has now a $5 billion Roth IRA. He started with $5 grand in 1999. And I called the Backdoor because you can make a million dollars a year and still do a Roth. Don't let your financial advisor tell you, oh, you make too much money.

You can't do a Roth. This isn't about $100 billion businesses either. This is farmers. farmers do this. And there's no one else in the country doing a strategy like this. My guest is Mark Kohler, small business expert, tax expert, entrepreneur expert. Mark, it's so great to have you on the show. Well, thank you. I know you stayed away from the L word because you're like, oh, do I have to see a lawyer? He's a lawyer. I didn't want to say that. I didn't want people to turn the show off. Lawyer. Well, I'm one of the good guys. You know, I'm a tax lawyer, which means I fight for you, everybody, and

You know, win, win, win, IRS lose. So I love to save taxes, build business. The number one cost in our lives, let's freaking tackle it. Okay, so you're a lawyer, tax lawyer, but business expert, entrepreneur expert, here's the problem. Lawyers, as you know, you probably heard, are deal killers. They don't know any. Look, every time I sit down with lawyers, God bless we have lawyers, and I have a lot of experience there. But at the end of the day, running a business, building a business is really not what a lawyer is trained in.

And so how is it that you have that bridge, you bridge that gap to help so many people take their business to the next level, income-wise and growth-wise? How did you do that? Well, that's a great question. I didn't expect you to ask that. And I'll tell you, I had to hire a lawyer last month on a real estate deal I was doing, and they were local to that area. And within two days, they were trying to kill the deal.

And I'm like, holy grap, I want to pay you. work for me. Let's get this done. And no, it just drives you crazy. I think the law school education is built to find problems and debate and argue and whatever. I don't know. But I wanted to go, I started out as an entrepreneur. I was a kid with the lemonade stand. I loved entrepreneurship. I loved small business. I had a small business all through undergrad. I got my master's in taxation. I felt the lifeblood of businesses is the numbers. If you know the numbers, you're going to be far more successful as a business owner. Marketing, sales, whatever.

I mean, no one's, again, I'm always learning, but that came more naturally to me. I was like the B student hiring the A students to work for me. But then I wanted to go to law school to learn how to write better, to think smarter, to be more analytic. And luckily, I didn't let it ruin me. So I just love making deals come together because when you can find a tax lawyer that can bring the deal together, oh my gosh, you're like you're a unicorn. And so I've built team members around me and trained an incredible little boutique law firm for business owners. And we just grow 20, 30 percent a year every year and haven't looked at it. Now, you work with business owners around the U.S., helping them take their business and grow their business.

Or if they have a side hustle, that's a business, take that. take that and actually grow it and increase profits, right? Yeah, yeah. In fact, I just gave a speech last week in Anaheim, California. Yeah, we helped clients all over the country, absolutely. And the beauty of Zoom and the Internet now has just made it so helpful for business owners to find the right advisor rather than their only choice for you and me 20 years ago as you just went down the street and hope you got lucky.

But so I gave a speech last week in Anaheim on what I believe these four phases of business are. You're going to go through startup. And then you're going to go through this optimization, systemization phase, and then scaling and saving some money. I'm finally making money now. What do I do? And then exit. And it's interesting.

Clients can be young in an exit phase or they can be old age-wise in a startup phase. So the phases of the business are very different than the phases of our life. And so as a tax lawyer, as an accountant, you're going to have different tax strategies based on whether you're in a startup or an exit, or you're going to have a different legal issue if you're trying to systemize and optimize rather than scale. And so I've really tried to train my lawyers

and be the tax advisor that clients need in those different phases to help them go to the next level. What are some of the common mistakes that you see that small business owners or people with side hustles make? Well, let's go with phase one. I'll go phase one. I think way too many side household small business owners rely on their business to support them prematurely.

It freaks me out every time I have someone call up or make an appointment and go, Mark, I just quit my job. I started a business. I'm like, oh my gosh, no, don't do that. You need that safety net. You need that steady income so you can let your business grow and materialize and get through adolescence. It's a toddler. And people are like, when they have their business support them too quickly, then they make short-term

decisions. I got to pay the bills next month. So instead of investing in the business or making a smarter long-term decision, you're sucking out profit so fast. And then the business fails and you're like, yeah, my business sucked. No, it was great. You just forced it to support you too quickly. Let it grow.

Let it mature a little bit. And then it can support you. And then you'll be able to scale it later. We just, they suffocate their business too quickly sometimes. So the first mistake is people take too much money out of their company too soon instead of putting that money back in and reinvesting it in their company and letting their company grow. Mm-hmm. Oh, now it's funny the way you said that because I didn't even present this way last week in Anaheim

is the opposite of that is a problem in phase three. See, in phase three, we want to scale. We're like, okay, I'm making money. I'm systemized. And we've learned that it's about the people I'm hiring now. So I'm hiring good people. You're playing more of a managerial role. You've learned how to duplicate yourself.

That's what you're doing in phase two is I'm going to duplicate myself. I'm not leaving, but I need to not be the bottleneck on making money. So I've got all these little mini marks in my business now. I'm making money. I'm ready to scale. And you're probably like this, Kevin, too. What's your best bet? You.

And so what business owners do is then put too much. money back into their business. They're not peeling out profit and diversifying, taking some of that money and placing it in real estate or some other investments. Because who knows? A market change, a problem with staffing, business, customers, vendors, the business fails, and the business owner is business rich, cash poor. I've seen that happen with a lot of my friends, even though I've given that exact same advice, they didn't heat it. One particular guy had a $200 million dollar your business started from zero, started from zero. He was flipping pizzas and he was living in his mother-in-law's basement, started the business, and the business exploded. He built this

huge, enormous building, had hundreds and hundreds, I think, 450 employees. And he kept just hiring more people, hiring more people, building more buildings. And I'm going, calm down. This is not going to last forever. You're making a lot of money. Stop spending it and putting it in your business. take some money out, put it off to the side and some other ventures, because at a certain point, your company, it's not going to go up constantly. It's going to come back, and now you're going to have to make sure that you're covered. And, of course, it went back a little bit. He should have been covered, but his fixed overhead was so high.

It was over. And, you know, bankruptcy. And, of course, the problem was he never took any money out. He was, he was penniless when he left. And it's so sad because there's no cushion there. and sometimes you need some reserves to scale in the proper way. And I made this mistake for at least five to ten years in my career where I just drove every dollar back into my business.

I felt I was my best bet. And it just blew up on me. And for anybody out there, this isn't about $100 million businesses either. This is farmers. Farmers do this. Have you heard the phrase land rich, catch, poor people? It's because farmers go out and buy more equipment, more tractors, and more this, rather than peeling out a little bit of money and not buying the next track of land that comes for sale.

And we need that balance in our lives financially because that balance is what lets your business grow. Now let's talk about taxes. If a person has a regular W-2 job, they're paying taxes, is it advantageous for them to start, we'll call it a side hustle, which is really a small part-time business? Does that give them any tax advantage in addition to the potential of making some money? Yeah. No, it's funny the way you say, is there any advantage to starting a side hustle? Some would say, please do not ruin my hobby. I don't want to make money at my hobby.

I'm just going to go to my day job. Let me enjoy my boat in, you know, on the, in the Puget Sound. I don't want to like just, you know, start doing tours. But, no, from a tax perspective, and there's so many incredibly talented. talented people making great money in corporate America with the W-2. Love it. Tax planning? None.

There's so few tax strategies that make sense and it's tough and you're, and you're getting killed and I get it. We want that side hustle to start taking some, because just like a business owner that's putting money back in their business, where are you deploying your profits from corporate America? Why deploy them right back into Wall Street? Why don't you deploy some in some side businesses that don't require full-time material participation? You're getting creative, maybe some industry knowledge you have.

So that side hustle doesn't have to be freaking drive an Uber. You know, people should be a lot of cool things. But that side hustle gives me tax planning opportunities. And guess what? Rental real estate is a form of a side hustle. Real estate is a business. And when you have producing rental income, that gives me. even more opportunity for tax planning.

So let's peel that money out and create these structures where I can lower your overall effective tax rate because I'm creating more income for you and I'm bringing to bear tax strategies you can't have when you're in corporate America. I can't write off your home office. I can't write off your auto, your travel, your dining, your events and your conferences. But with a small business, I can. Now, what that really means is, remember the old phrase, a penny saved, is a penny earned? Okay, so, and so when you save a penny, you've earned a penny.

So if you save money by reducing how much money you're giving away to the government and taxes, it's like you've earned that money without doing anything. Yes? Yes. And it was funny, you'd say that. I remember almost where I was sitting when I learned that. I was already a lawyer with my own law firm, probably been in business. three to five years. And because I had worked for other law firms, you don't care about the paper

clips. You don't care about the pencils, the pens, the paper, the copy machine. When you work for someone else, you don't think of that stuff. And there was this one day where it was like, I had to buy, maybe it was a copy machine. I can't remember. It was a piece of equipment in the office. And I was about to buy it. And I thought, hold it. If I save a thousand on this, I actually make a thousand more this month. And it was just, just like this epiphany that I think every business owner goes through at some point where they start to be careful with what they spend. And also here's the point, Kevin. Oh my gosh, people, it is easier to save money than make money. Oh, I would rather teach a client how to go save a thousand

than I have to teach them how to go sell something, some $1,000. Now, let's talk about taxes for a second and stay on this subject. If a person makes $100 grand a year in a W-2, they're paying, in state and federal taxes, depending on their situation and where they are, what, around 30,000 a year? Sure. Let's go 30% fed and state so we can say 25 fed, five state. Let's just use that. I'm going to pull up my little whiteboard here that I'm working on, and let's do it. So 100 grand of W2, they're paying 30,000 in fed and state, so they're in a 30% effective tax rate. Okay? Right.

So if they just start a LLC or corporation or some, entity to run a side hustle, they immediately start getting business tax deductions, correct? No. No. Okay, several points. I don't have to have a freaking entity. You take that off for a minute, Zach. Yeah.

I do not have to have a business entity to get write-offs, nor does me setting up an LLC or corporation give me write-offs. Everybody, an entity is a form of doing business. I could have 10 businesses in that one entity. I could go open up the business tomorrow and screw having an LLC or corporation. Does that mean I don't get a ride off my auto or my employees or my marketing cost or the,

no. So the first thing, I don't mean to be root camp, I'm just going to let everybody know. You don't have to have a freaking LLC or corporation to start that equation. That's number one. You can do it as a sole proprietor just as yourself. Exactly.

Without forming a different entity. That's right. But when you drive to have a meeting, some of the gas is deductible. And the meal with the guy is deductible. Yeah, well, so let's come to this. So number one, I just want to tell everybody, now do I want you to have an entity?

Sure, but it has nothing to do with the tax strategy. That's an important point. Now, if it's an S corporation, you start making money, we're in another level of conversation. But the first point is, okay, we got our $100,000 W-2 wage earner. They're paying 30% an effective tax rate, and they go, I'm going to form an entity. I don't give it.

No, I don't care about forming an entity. You don't need to. I'm going to start writing off auto. Nope, don't care about that. Tell me your business idea. I need to have you making money doing something. And you say, well, I'm in an engineer. I'm making $100 grand a year.

And I've got some industry knowledge. I'm going to go on Upwork and offer consulting services for $200 to $300 an hour on the weekends and nights to people around the world, whatever. And I'm going to make an extra 10 to $15,000. Okay. Do I need an entity? No, but I have to have a business purpose and generate income doing it. So we go back to our math.

Now I'm up 115 grand. So I'm off to the races and get my pen over here. I'm up. Oh, my word, sorry everybody. I chose the wrong pen. There we go. So I've now got my $100,000 W2 and I've added $15,000 to the mix as a side hustle. By doing the Upwork consulting online or something like that.

Okay. Now here's the beauty in Kevin. This is where you nailed. And this person didn't form any entity. They just did this. Yep. We're good. Not that we shouldn't have, but we don't need to. So now here's the cool part. And Kevin, you nailed it. Now I'm going to write off 15 grand. I'm going to write off the auto you just talked about. Some dining. My laptop. My home office. My cell phone. I can go through a whole laundry list. I'm going to have a little board. meeting with my family that's going to serve on my board to help me with my bill. Oh, all of a sudden on that other additional income, I have zero taxable income. So now I have 115,000 of income, but I'm still only paying $30,000 in tax. So my effective tax rate here, and we'll have some fun here, now went from, let's do the math, $30,000 to buy $1.15, boom, I'm down to 26%. So my effective tax rate went down and my income went up and I just put $15,000 freaking dollars tax free in my pocket.

And if you had to pay 30% on the $15,000, that's $4,500. That's right. So instead of really making $15,000, you made $19,500. effectively. I love your girl math. That's great. That's girl math. Kevin. And then if you go out and buy and you got a deal on something that costs you. You know how much money I saved you today? That's right. Oh, I love it. So no, no, it's so cool. And so that's what's cool about having that side hustle because we have so many, what I call them personal conversion expenses. And what would happen though if that side hustle I made 15,000. But because I'm just starting off,

I actually wrote off 25,000. Now, that's right, we could drive it down. So we can have some startup costs. Now you're not paying 30,000 in tax at all. You made $115,000 in income, but now you're not paying $30,000. You're actually paying less. Yep, yep.

So we could go, we say we brought in, $15,000 of income. Right. But now you get $25,000 in,000. deductions because you're just starting your business. Yep. We could have 25 in expenses. So we have a loss of 10. And so now that 10,000 comes in onto my main return. And so now I'm down to a 90,000. Now we've got AGI and taxable income and everything people. I get that. We're just trying in concept here. The point is we're driving down our taxable income with the start of a business. And that business is going to,

sorry, I was clean that up here. That business is going to allow us to make more money and pay less tax. So now I'm paying on $90,000. My tax rate goes down, I mean, my taxable income goes to $27,000, but $27,000 of tax, and then I divide that by my $115, and now my effective tax rate is dropped to 23%. So instead of paying 30% tax rate, or effective tax rate, I'm now down to 23,

and I made $15,000 of more income tax-free. Boom, but a bang. And this is kind of the magic of confusing the public with these tax bills that talk about, yes, we're going to tax the rich. We're going to tax some 50%. We're going to tax some 60%. People don't know in America that at one point

there was a 90% tax rate on people that made over a million dollars a year. but because virtually everything was deductible, the effective tax rate, what the people actually paid, was closer to 10%. So it really almost doesn't matter what the top tax rate is. It's if you're doing the deductions, you use that word, what's the effective tax rate, or what is the real tax rate you're paying on your money? So if you make $100,000 a year and you're only paying $27,000 in taxes, that's 27%. If you're paying 20,000 in taxes, it's 20%. Regardless of whether the government is saying that the tax rate for that amount of money is 30, 35, or 40,

it's what you're paying on your income, right? Yeah, I, I'm, I don't know, you're, you may have to reiterate your point about rates, because if the rates are 70, dirty Ronald Reagan, the federal rate was 50%. Correct. So that's not, that's pretty recent, everybody. So the rate was 50%. Now, but did they get extra tax writeoffs back then that we don't have now? No, we're all getting generally the same tax writeoffs. That hasn't changed. And so, yeah, we want lower rates. I mean, gosh, Secretary Bissent was on in front of the Senate this last week.

And they were drilling them on billionaire saving taxes. And Bernie Sanders was going ballistic. And I wish I could have jumped in and said something. But here's the point. Trying to watch what's going on in Congress and the big, beautiful bill, hey, I can tell you, I think there's going to be some cool things that are going to come out of it. We already saw the House's version. That's funny. The reality is we have to look at our own economy.

What's going on in my life? What's in my household? What is my current tax rate? What's my effective tax rate? What are my sources of income? What could I do in my life to save more and build more wealth? and it's so many people get hung up, and I know this isn't you. This is why you're talking about the hysteria that people start to have with who's paying what.

Don't worry about it. Worry about what you're a freaking paying. And let's worry about what you can do to change your American dream and make it more of a reality. Of all the people that you've talked to, and again, you've helped so many people increase the amount of money they're actually putting in their pocket at the end of the year. We talked about the mistakes or a big mistake that people might. make. What should somebody be doing? If somebody's watching and they're a small business owner

or they have a side hustle or if they want to start a small business or want to start a side hustle, what is one recommendation that you would tell them? Oh my gosh. There's so many. All right. Give me one, two, or three. Yeah, okay, okay, all right. Okay, because there's so many people with different scenarios, different income levels, different situations.

for one person I'd say this and definitely not tell them to do that, but tell someone else to do that. So let me throw out a few. If you're just starting to build that side hustle, that side business, maybe it's become a main hustle for you. Some of you out there listening, have that small business that you're relying on for your livelihood. Let's talk about being efficient, optimizing, systemization, being effective with every possible tax deduction I can take. Do you have a plan? Are you regularly listening to a little bit of tax strategy? I have a podcast where I make it so easy for the small business owner to understand tax strategies. Accountants can be terrible at teaching tax strategy.

And so we as our captain of our own ship have to understand and take the bull by the horn sometimes and understand how am I going to put my kids on payroll? How am I going to ride off auto and dining in the RV or the home office or the new equipment? or I'm in real estate. Can I use bonus depreciation? Can I know? What's a 1031? How's it work? What's an opportunity zone? See, these little things I'm throwing out, you should go, yeah, I know enough to be dangerous with that. And then I'm going to go tell my accountant what to do. We're going to collaborate. That's how it's supposed to work. So for the person out there that's really worked, you're fighting that you feel this uphill battle of trying to make the business

profitable and your professionals aren't helping you, you have a path. You have a path. you can take control. And I want to give you the tools of some basic tax and legal principles where you're in control and these jerk lawyers or jerk accountants are not telling you no, you're putting them on the same side of the table with you and you're working it out together. And that's possible. I want to let you know it's possible. Now, of the people that you talk to that succeed, is mindset or attitude an important element,

in your opinion? Oh, of course. I teach, and you may see that if I was watching on video, I've got one of my logos here behind me, the Main Street Tax Pro program. I stepped away from my accounting firm of 15 years, approximately three years ago, to launch a training system for other accountants because I had a four-year weight of people that needed to use, needed a good accountant, and we couldn't serve them. So I said, I'm going to go on a mission to train an army of accountants. that have strategies that make sense on Main Street America, and there's no one else in the country doing a strategy like this. And if you're an accountant out there, an enrolled agent, a CPA, you want to learn street smart tax strategies and how to operate as a tax advisor. And Kevin, you may not know that the accounting industry is on fire. The accountants are just as frustrated as the business owners.

They've got this cyclical cash flow problem. The tax season beats the crap out of them. They hate it. Enrollment at accounting schools is down almost in every university across the country. I'm running into the building saying we can be tax advisors and there's business owners out there that'll pay for it. Let's learn how to do it. And so to answer your question is those accountants can really make the difference and

move the needle for their clients if they just have that conversation. And it's a mindset thing because accountants aren't taught to communicate. It's drop your crap off, fill out the form, look in the rearview mirror. No, bring the client in. And let's have a strategy session and know that you don't have to give away your services. Know that a client is willing to pay for it. And the mindset of belief is not just the business owner. You've got to find that accountant that believes in the process too.

And when you two come together and you believe in the future and what it can do, you're unstoppable. What are some of the successful businesses? Obviously, again, you deal with a lot of small business owners. You must see a vast variety of different businesses that people are involved with, not just a florist or a dry cleaner or a restaurant. What is some businesses that are out there so that people that are watching maybe stimulate their imagination a little bit of some of the type of small businesses that people can engage in? Is there anything out there that you can think of that kind of resonates with maybe, oh, this is a, I've seen people get involved in this type of business and it's very profitable and it's very good. You bet. And that probably will bring me, I'll twist that into a recommendation for business owners that are starting to make money too. Like what are some things they should be doing that would be different from someone in startup? So one of the best, anybody out there listening, one of the easiest businesses to start is a service-based business. It's very low overhead. You've already got some industry knowledge and something. You may be in corporate America with some knowledge that the average small business owner doesn't have. And again, there may be hobbies that you love that you would like to make

money doing. And if you're passionate about something, you never do a day's work, right? If you're like, I love this, I want to go make money doing this. And so now we've got to, I like to bring together three things, something you love to do, something that you're good at and something you want that makes money. So you've got to, you may be good at something and you love doing it, but you don't make money at it. So you might make money of something and you're good at it, but you hate doing it. So when you say the service, you're talking about consulting primarily, right? Well, it could be, uh, it could be doing tours.

It could be, uh, okay, a tour guy. So somebody loves their city. They know it really well. I've seen people downtown in Chicago set up a little side hustle where it's like restaurant tours. I'm going to take it to the best restaurants in Chicago. And it's just, you know, it's Joe Smith just said, you know, basically going on online on Facebook and saying, hey, if you're visiting Chicago, I'm a native Chicago and I'm going

to show you the best restaurants. Yeah. And I'm talking about hamburger joints and the ones that you'll never find. Yeah. No. And so many landscaping, janitorial, consulting, window cleaning, construction cleanup. If you just go ask Grock or chat, GBT, for the top 50 service-based businesses out there, everybody, find one that you love doing and you can probably charge three times what your salary is

at your day job. Because as a business owner, you should be three-xing whatever your hourly rate is. You'd pay someone else to do it. So if you're getting paid $25 over $30 an hour in your job and you find a service-based business that speaks to you, you should be charging $75 to $100 an hour to do it. So now you've just tripled your revenue per hour and then you start systemizing, building a brand, Getting it going and then what do you do? Face two, you duplicate yourself. So now you hire someone at $30 an hour to do what you're charging, $75 an hour to do. And so service-based businesses are great.

And it's a great, go franchise. Look at, there's a conference every weekend somewhere. If you want to franchise something, take some capital. And again, I just love real estate. I think, I was telling Kevin before the show started, I'm maybe looking at a couple more Airbnbs this year. I love rehabbing a little real estate. I involve my kids, my family.

Rental property is just kick-ass and love it. It's a great tax strategy. What about a person who's out there that has a business right now? He's making some money. What would you recommend that he or she do? You bet. Here it is. Mega backdoor Roth.

The Roth IRA strategy is where I really want you, as a business owner, when you're scaling and you're starting to make money, I want you to deploy it into, to those solo 401ks, even if you have a Safe Harbor Group 401K because you have other full-time employees, you still can always do a Roth IRA. What are you doing with your health savings account? Are you feeding and building the Roth IRAs of your kids? Peter Thiel has now a $5 billion Roth IRA. He started with $5 grand in 1999. All of you can, we've got so many clients in our trust company, the directed IRA trust company, directed IRA.com. that have $100 million Roth IRAs.

What is a Roth IRA? You're so nice to your viewers because I already know you know. The Roth IRA, you have to know, Kevin, that you just throw me a softball. The Roth IRA is like a 401k at work or an IRA, an individual retirement account that typically you put money in and it comes off your paycheck. You don't pay checks. You don't pay tax. Or you put it in your IRA and you get a tax deduction.

That's level one. It's great. Put money in. You get a tax write off. It grows tax deferred in dodo do do do snowballs. And then someday when you retire, 59 and a half or older, you take it out, you pay tax, whatever the rate is then. Level two is you go, yeah, screw that. I'm going to take after tax money, put it into this Roth 401k or Roth IRA rate, and I can stack it.

So I can get a big Roth account going. And I called the back door because you can make a million dollars a year and still do a run. Don't let your financial advisor tell you, oh, you made too much money. You can't do a Roth. Your accountant is working in 1982. So let's make sure you're funding your Roth every year, no matter what your income level is, and you're investing in what you know. This is the trick, is if I'm going to go out and invest in something and you're like,

Mark, how do I save tax on that? I'll say, don't invest in it. Let your Roth IRA invest in it. It could be private equity, a small business. It could be real estate notes. And now all of a sudden your Roth is making money tax-free. You put after-tax money in it. It grows tax-free.

And when you're ready to pull it out at 59.5, it's a tax-free ATM. All right, hold on a second. So if a person puts money into a Roth IRA that's into an account, they don't have to use that money to buy stocks or bonds, equities. They can actually use that money to invest in their buddy's startup business. Does anybody know that who's listening? Probably not. That's right. Yeah. It's called self-directing. I have another podcast with now over a million downloads

called the Directed IRA Podcast. Many of you can go listen to it. Just go to your favorite platform. It's the number one podcast in the directed IRA space. And that's for HSAs and 401Ks. I have a little single-family home rental in my health savings account. It paid for my kids' braces, tax-free. I've got cattle. I've got it. I just bought 20 in that ranch up in Utah. I was telling you about Kevin. I just bought 20 Black Angus Steers in my health savings account. I have a ranch, a John Dutton ranch in my health savings account. I have Roth holding XRP and crypto in Bitcoin. I have my IRA that owns a rental property in South Chicago, Elgin, you know where it's at.

Well, that's not South Chicago. Elgin is west of Chicago. It's right down the road. I'm in Schaumburg. Yeah, I've got the cutest little single family home meth lab. It's adorable. and it's in my IRA, cash flows every month, and you don't pay taxes. The reason it's in the IRA is when it makes money, you don't pay tax on.

It's tax deferred. You don't pay tax on until you pull it out sometime in the future, right? Unless it's a Roth, and I never pay tax. Mark, I know you have a hard stop because I'm going to leave it right there and let everybody want to know more. You have a podcast, correct? Yes, sir. We have two, one for business owners, one for those self-directing. Good. I recommend everybody check out Mark's, Mark Kohler's podcast. We're going to have you on

more because people want to know more. You are right spot on 100%. And I loved you having on your show and I know people are going to get really motivated. At the end of the day, if you can pay less taxes 100% legally without getting into any gray areas, it's money earned. It's critical. and do you be able to make money on your money and not pay taxes on it because of some of these strategies, which is what the government laws say you can do and is what the rich people in America do, this is one of the ways you can build wealth

and build financial freedom and independence. Mark Kohler, you've been a great guest. Any final words? Well, I was just going to say, it's not a loophole, people. The government wants you to do this. The tax code is built for you to do this. You think we're going to take care of America

with Social Security? the government is saying, please take these tax deferred and tax-free accounts and go out and invest in alternative assets and build America. Build Main Street America. Do it with your retirement account. Don't pay tax. The code is built for you to do this. They want you to do this. And it's such an honor to be here, Kevin. I can't wait to come back. Your listeners, I know they'd love this stuff and you're doing the Lord's work getting out there telling everybody about it. Thanks very much, Mark. Mark, you have a super day. Check out Mark's podcast. Mark Kolo podcast. Make sure you subscribe to this channel. Like the show. Leave a comment. Share it with as many

people as you know. I'm Kevin Trudeau. This is Limitless, the Kevin Trudeau show. Until next time, we'll see you at the top.