The Koerner Office - Business Ideas and Deep Dives with Chris Koerner - $532K in One Month Selling Land They Didn't Own - Ep. #308

Episode Date: June 12, 2026

beehiiv is the newsletter platform I’ve used for over a year and a half because their data shows you exactly what’s working. Get 30% off three months at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠���⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠beehiiv.com/chris⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠━Check out my newsletter at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://TKOPOD.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and join my community at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://TKOwners.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠━I sat down with Carson and Jackson and we talked about how they built a land flipping business by helping home builders find off-market lots. They broke down how they get a builder’s buy box first, then go find landowners willing to sell for less, keeping the difference as profit without usually buying the land themselves. We also talked about why they prefer land over houses, how they find sellers through cold calls, direct mail, Zillow, and referrals, and the risks to watch out for like wetlands, slope, utilities, and protected wildlife. Finally, they shared how they’ve scaled the business, what their team looks like, and why consistency matters more than any fancy tool. You can learn more about Carson and Jackson at https://www.carsonandjackson.com/Enjoy!---Watch this on YouTube instead here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠tkopod.co/p-yt⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Ask me a question on or off the show here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://tkopod.co/p-ask⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Learn more about me: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://tkopod.co/p-cjk⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Learn about my company: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://tkopod.co/p-cof⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Follow me on Twitter here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://tkopod.co/p-x⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Free weekly business ideas newsletter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://tkopod.co/p-nl⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Share this podcast: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://tkopod.co/p-all⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Scrape small business data: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://tkopod.co/p-os⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠---

Our best month that we ever did was 37 deals and $532,000 in profit. Right. In one month? One month, single month. We've done over $100,000 a month for the last 40 months straight. We'd go down to the mailbox and every other day almost, we would have a signed contract that was a deal just in there and never spoke to the seller or nothing. They just received the contract from us.

They would just sign it, return it back, and deals done. If you can do one deal a month and one deal for us takes 30 minutes to an hour, you're making over $100,000 a year. Yeah. I have not seen another business model where I can make a call to someone I've never spoken to, and with no degree, no experience, no real estate license, nothing, like a quarter million dollars. We were pin and paper, whiteboard for the longest time. Can people start this with nothing?

100%. iPhone, internet connection. We had somebody that just did when he got a property and he got it for a million dollars and he had a builder at 1.1. 30 days later, it was his first lander. We got a $110,000 wire. The beauty of it is even if you're starting out for free, you have the opportunity to his six-figure deal. If you're making 10% on $750,000, that's $75,000 and profit.

You're just middlemanning the transaction essentially. I love being in that. Yeah, it's the best. Him or I say this all the time. We joke about it. If we lost everything, if we went bankrupt today, we could go into a public library completely for free, go on Zillow and make 20K a month wholesaling land in the high acres.

Yeah, with a flip phone. We've never seen these lots, right? So we do it all virtually. Is it nationwide or Florida? Nationwide. So we've done 25, 30 states now. I feel like this is so much better than wholesaling homes. We were 19 and 21 years old.

And we had our first big deal per se that came in. And it was, we were getting four lots for $37,000. And we're about six months into it. The seller actually reached out to me. She called me and she said, hey, listen, my husband and I, we got these properties 10, 20 years ago. They paid like literally probably $800 for each of them. She was like, listen, I want $40,000 for all of them, right? And that deal ended up making us about $140,000.

And that was kind of like the breakthrough for us. Every other day, these 23 and 26-year-old brothers go down and check the mail and find a signed contract to buy a piece of raw land. But that's the whole secret. they're not even buying this land themselves. They went to a builder beforehand and say, hey, how much do you pay for spots of land to build homes on? They tell them, then these guys go out and find people willing to sell. They take a 10% profit margin. But that 10% is about $8,600 bucks.

Their best month, they did over $500,000 in profit. So today we're going to learn about flipping land. How can you flip land without any money? All you need is a phone, an internet connection, and a willingness to talk to people, and you can make a lot of money flipping land. Let's dive right in. Okay, Jackson, Carson, welcome. Thank you.

Thank you. Welcome to Texas. Why don't you tell me who you guys are and what you do? Awesome. So we're brothers. My name's Jackson. This is Carson. So a little over four years ago, now like four years in a couple months,

we started a business and we kind of found out about it on accident, where we are getting paid finder's fees to bring home builders or land. Right. So we're essentially selling other people's properties without owning it ourselves. Right. So for an example, just 90 seconds, what the business model is we'll reach out to a home builder that's just building homes to resell them. And we'll say, hey, I see you built nine homes in the past month, right? Are you looking for more land to build on?

Right? And they'll say, yes, I'll pay $50,000 for anything in this specific neighborhood. So then we'll go through that neighborhood. And if we find someone to agree at $40,000, we make $10,000 without putting up any money. Right. So we have different systems and stuff we've developed to be able to do more of these deals and reach more sellers and stuff like that. But that's the full business model is we are selling other people's land without owning it ourselves. And then we keep the difference as our Is this wholesaling? Is that another word for it? Yes, essentially.

Okay. Let's break down exactly what wholesaling is. I've done wholesaling. Okay. So here's what I understand it to be. Tell me when I'm wrong. So you will primarily find properties off market, right? Postcards, yellow letters, cold calling, whatever, looking at the MLS and you will try to get

them under contract. Yep. And that contract has a clause in it that says, I can sell this contract. Yes. I have the right to do that. Right. You will find, let's say, a one-acre lot for 100 grand. You know the market price is 170.

Yep. So you will buy it and either just list it on the MLS for 170 or you will sell the contract to another investor for 150 or whatever and it never hits the MLS. But the key point is you're never buying the property. Right. You're putting in some earnest money and you've got like a 30, 60, 90, 120 day window to find a buyer for that property or you lose your earnest money. Kind of. So, so yes, as far as what wholesaling is, right? Exactly. So it's, you can do this with houses. You could probably do this with an MBA contract, right? You're trying paper. Yes, assignable. So if it says assignable, it means I can sell this person's property without ever buying it myself, right? And then, yes, sell this person, the right to buy the property. The right. Yes, yes. So if I get someone to agree to sell their house for 200,000 and then I find a fix and flipper to pay 210, right? If I have that assignable contract, I send the two contracts to something called a title company. So, yeah. So if I get someone to agree to sell their house for 200, and then I find a fix and

And then the buyer since 210,000, the buyer gets the house, the seller gets 200,000, you would make 10 grand without putting up any money, right? So that's customary wholesaling. Have you ever bought a land deal yourself or have you wholesaled everything? We prefer to wholesale everything, right? But like we've bought them ourselves, I'd say probably 5% of the time, right, for different circumstances, right? So for an example, if we have a lot that's worth more than we're getting offered, right?

Like now we have the ability to be able to purchase it ourselves. In the beginning, we didn't have any money, so we couldn't buy the lots ourselves. But for our first 80, 100 deals, we were just strict assigning wholesale. Right. Because I imagine every now and then you come across something that's just a screaming hot deal. Right. Yeah. And you're like, this is just too good for us to sell.

100%. Right. And in the early days, you couldn't do that if you wanted. You didn't have the money. Yeah. Well, now it's like, hmm. And sometimes it's started to go off. Sometimes it's scary to put a big assignment fee on a HUD on the HUD statement where it's

the settlement statement for those you watch and I don't know what that is. So for example, we had one that we got at $165,000. We sold it for $2.75 and we had $110,000 assignment beyond the HUD. And that's a little scary having that sitting there, God forbid, you know, thinking something could go wrong, you know. Yeah. So just to tell like a quick story back to your point. Like one of our, so it was our first ever big deal that we ever did. And we did some deals.

We made some money. We made some poor investments because we were 19 and 21 years old. And we had our first big deal per se that came in and it was, we were getting four lots for $37,000. And we were about six months into it. We didn't have $37,000 at the time, but we were investing in stocks since we were young and even making $100 a week, like since we were, we just put it away, stock, stock, stocks. And I remember selling all my stocks so we could actually purchase this one. And it was the first one we ever purchased. And then that deal ended up making us about $140,000. And that was kind of like the breakthrough for us. But that was the first one we ever purchased or so. Yeah. So four lots for $37,000 in Jacksonville, Florida. Okay. Was that in like an established neighborhood? Not really actually. So like you would be really surprised. is the seller actually reached out to me. So we'd send like postcards. Hey, reach out if you're interested. And she called me and she said, hey, listen, my husband and I, we got these properties 10, 20 years ago. They paid like literally probably $800 for each of them. And she just reached out. She was like, listen, I want $40,000 for all of them. Right. And we didn't really, I had no idea

how to value them. Like us having a 10 minute conversation before this, you knew more about me or more than I did about land flipping than I knew at this time. Right. So me and Carson were like, sure, we'll see what happens here, I put them under contract for 37,000 for the four. And then I just called a realtor that built, he was listing a newly built house. Right. So he was working with a builder that built homes. And he was like, well, this one's worth 80,000. This one's worth 70,000. This one's worth 30,000. And this one's unbuildable, but it's still worth like 15. Right. So at that point, I called another agent. So I'm like, there's no way this is true. Right. And like at this time, like, we were basically deal by deal to pay for our lifestyle in Miami. Like we were working off

of like the 45th floor lobby in our building because we didn't have furniture yet in our room, right? Like we were sitting there. It was two days before his birthday, his 20th birthday, and we were kind of freaking out. So I called a couple more agents. They confirmed everything. So then I called the title company and I was basically like, how quickly can we get this done, liquidated all the funds I had in the stock market. We closed on it. And then that was kind of our first breakthrough month per se. Yeah. So, hey, please just take half a second and hit subscribe on Apple Podcast or Spotify or wherever you're listening to this right now. It would really mean a lot. So you sold them all for 140 or you know it was a 140 profit. We sold them a little over

180. So it was like 185, 190. Then you have your closing costs, your agent that you pay in the back end. But again, this is not a customary deal because 90 to 95% of the deals we're doing, we're not purchasing ourselves, right? Because we kind of switched our model to where like before we were like, let's go find a deal and then find a builder. Then we switch it to builder first where we're going to reach out to the builder first, right? They're going to tell us exactly what they want. Then we're basically just going to go shopping for them and just take 5, 10 grand off the price, right? So if a builder says they want to pay 50,000, we're going to go find it at 40 because we already know we don't have to work on selling it. It's just straight flip to the builder one email. So I'm going to use my local area as an example

because I know it super well. I live in a small Dallas Fort Worth suburb. Right. It's about 8,000 people here. It's quite rural, two acre minimum lot sizes. Okay. And there's like a half a dozen like small custom home builders here. And I know that lots in this area, two acre lots are selling for like 750. Okay. So if I were doing your business model, I would reach out to these six home builders. And I'm sure you're doing on a much bigger scale. Yeah, yeah. But I would say, what do you need to buy a lot for to ensure that you make a profit? Are these like spec home builders? Yeah, exactly. So it's called scattered lock campaigns, right? So we don't target. So there's two types of builders that will do these homes, right? Is there's one that's going to buy a 40 acre

parcel. They're going to subdivide it. They're going to put in roads and they're going to build 100 houses. We don't touch that. But we will do the spec home builders, will those. do 10, 20, 100 lots a year, and they're just like, you'll be driving down your neighborhood and you'll see house, house, house, house. And they'll just buy that lot. They'll build on it. Right. So we'll reach out to the builder and we'll say, hey, listen, I see you've built seven homes in the past month, right? I see you've paid about 50 to 60 grand for all of them. The lowest listing on the market that you would pay on the MLS is 60,000. What would you pay if I brought you a deal right now? As we get them all off market, right? We're going to bring the deals to

to you. We're going to match the terms up. What do you need to be at on these lots? How many And then in your example, it's called the buy box. So the first thing, the way we do it with the builder first method is you get the builder's buy box. So in your example, we'd reach out to those six home builders and say, okay, what is your buy box meaning what are you looking to pay and what zip codes and what size lots? So they would say I'm paying 750K for two to three acre lots in this exact area of Dallas, Texas or right outside of Dallas, Texas. And then we would reverse engineer it, go find sellers, go pull a list of owners that are off market properties. So not listed that the owners have owned it for a long period of time and that they paid cheap for these properties. And then we would reach out to them and offer them 650 to 700,000. And then every single person we get to say yes would be a 50 to $100,000 deal depending on, you know, the negotiation. Okay. So are like spec home builders, custom home builders that build 10 to 30 a year? Is that like your bread and butter? A little bit all over the place, right?

So one of our biggest ones is actually the biggest home builder in the country, D.R. Or Deerhorn? Those are like the big two. Linar's. Yep. Yep, exactly. And then we also just do like, we have some that will just do one, one build a year, a couple builds a year. Like I have one guy in my phone in Lehigh Acres, Florida.

He buys three lots a year, and I typically bring him two to three of those every single year. Yeah. So it's kind of all over the spectrum. We also will work with investors and land bankers because a lot of people don't realize this, but when the house values go up, so if a house value went up maybe 20% in Florida and went from $400,000 to $500,000, that doesn't mean a lot goes from $10,000 to $12,000. Sometimes that lock can go from $10,000 to $100,000 in a span of six months a year or two years. So a lot of people will just buy these as investments.

So we work with investors, stuff like that. But it's great that the lots go up like that because so many people purchased it for cheap. And if they haven't built on it for five years, they essentially have no use for it. So not only are they making a ton of money on it, but also in the price. So if someone got a lot for $8,000, now it's worth $100,000, right? Great. We offer them $80,000. They get to make a bunch of money, but they actually want to sell it because their property

taxes might have been $13 a month when it was worth $8, $8. Now they're paying $2,000 a year for a property they don't even use. Right? So it's actually helping them get out of the taxes, everything like that. Wholesaling usually involves lowballing a bunch of people and their best bet is to rip somebody off, for lack of a better word, right? So we take a different approach, right? So we'll go and we'll reach out to the builders first.

You start with the buyer. Right. And we just go 10, 20 percent lower than what they'll pay, right? And we're helping these sellers because the good agents won't work with the sellers, right? So if a buyer says they're going to pay $100,000, we're just going to mass off for $90,000 to everybody that owns that piece of property. And then the seller avoids the realtor fees. And sometimes on land, it's 8 to 10 percent because, like you said, good agents don't want

a list of $40, $50,000 property, it's going to take six months to sell. They don't have much commission in it for them. They want to list a $2, $3, $4, $5 million house. So a lot of these land agents will take $8 to 10 percent and then, you know, $2,000 in closing costs. So even just taking those commissions out of the equation and guaranteeing the seller, we're going to close in 30 days. That's our fee right there. If we take out that $5 to $6,000 that would have been there with realtors and closing costs and you're not going to get a good agent that knows the market, we can make our margin in between right there. We're not ripping anybody off. The seller's getting a fair deal. The buyer's getting a property that they're going to

make money on and then we make our margin in between. Yeah. But like exactly, right, it's signable contract, $90,000 to the seller, home builder, $100,000, you as the middle man get a $10,000 or wire. Yeah. So it seems like when you start with the buyer, you avoid a lot of the awkwardness. Yes. But there is still some awkwardness. How much do you disclose to the seller? Obviously the buyer knows what you're doing, but to the seller, like we're a wholesaler. We're not going to build a house on this or not. That's one One thing I will say is wholesaling gets a bad rep and it has a bad stigma behind it because there's so many people that just because they're behind the telephone and don't meet these people, they can some people that don't know what they're doing. They'll call. They'll say whatever they want.

They'll make up lies. They'll say, oh, I'm the actual flipper. I'm the actual builder. I'm this on this. We have always taken an honest approach. Anybody we've thought to do this, we tell them to be honest and say, hey, I work with 20, 30 builders throughout this area. I'm going to get this property. We're going to clear the trees.

We're going to make sure there's no wildlife on this property. We're going to potentially get surveys. And I look to pass this off to my builder within four to six weeks. and I look to make 8 to 10% between it. And we're transparent. We tell them that and we're honest. And that's the truth. And we guarantee them that, look, I know what I'm doing in this market.

I'm very familiar with land. I work with all these different connections. And if I guarantee you $40,000, you're going to walk with your $40,000 that we agreed upon. And then every seller, obviously, if they agree with your price, they're cool with that and you're honest with them and telling them the truth rather than wholesale. Because people will say all these things that they're just saying. Most they just lie, right? So it's the more transparent you are with the sellers, the more they were. respect it. And I'm going to try to flip it off. And you'll get better dealings when

you're... But I'm like, here's what you can do is you can, yes, you have your real estate agent barking in your ear because that's their job that says list it for $50,000. You're going to list it for 50. You're going to drop it in six months so you don't get an offer to 44-9. You're going to get an offer for 40. You're going to pay your agent 3% on both sides. You're going to pay two grand in closing costs. You're going to walk with $37 in nine months. Or I can give you $39,000 in close in three weeks, right? Right. Because I have someone lined up at 42 right now. Right. And When you explain it like that, like they actually are benefiting from it. You already have somebody lined up and you're not really messing with them, right?

Like we don't we don't give offers that we can't follow through on because we already have the builder lined up. So unless the survey comes back and it's kind of funny, one of the main things that kills a deal on basically the only thing that kills deals in Florida at least is going to be wildlife. They have these protected turtles and owls. And that's like the only thing that basically a builder will kill the deal with because you can't build if there's these protected turtles on them. They're very expensive to remove it's a nightmare. What turtles? Gofer. Gofer. Gofer. Oh, like the big boxy ones? It's like six, eight grand per turtle. And they nest in the dirt and they're very protected out in Florida. Oh, man. Yeah. Do you go looking for turtles? Like, is that part of your job? So we don't used to be. We've never seen these lots, right? So we do it all virtually. Is it nationwide or Florida? Nationwide. Right. So we've done 25, 30 states now. You can do it in like 44. I think there's like six states. And typically your hotter markets are going to be the states that are, you know, typical hot real estate markets. And the reason being. You know, you know, is, you know, low state income tax. So Florida, obviously, no state income tax. Low state income tax

like Arizona, 2.5 percent. Any of those areas are obviously going to be a hotter market's because more recently the values went up, like Jackson was explaining. At the house, the value of house goes up. That means the value of lot went up and somebody paid cheap. You can go make your deals. Yeah. So you hear in DFW, land just went absolutely crazy these last six years, but these last two years, it's dipped. I'm actually buying a ranch right now. So I've been like looking at land all day, every day recently. What do you do in markets like that? that are kind of like... So this is actually the only thing that makes a market tough is when it's stagnant.

So when the market goes down, sellers panic sell, builders still buy. When the market goes up, the builders don't care what they pay because they outbid each other. So actually when the market goes down, it's super easy. When the market goes up, it's super easy. When the market doesn't change for six months and the buyers and sellers kind of catch up to each other is when you kind of run into a tough market, right? So if it's going up, it's going down, it's super simple to do because you're either

getting the deals at a great price. Because we've been in both those markets and nothing's really changed, like you said, you know, the sellers really need to sell when it's going down and they're scared that it's going to keep dipping or if the market's good, you're going to sell it for a little bit more. So either way, we're in and out in two to three weeks. We make our margin and then we're good to move on to the next. Yeah. Right. How do you protect your earnest money? We don't put earnest money up. We don't put earnest money up until the closing date, right? And then our earnest money is actually never due with our contract. So we'll put 100, 250 bucks, right? Like if the seller asked for

it, I'll put it to the title company, but it actually is not due to the closing date. And we have a feasibility study, that means we can back out to the day of the closing date with no risk. And then what we do is we put on the builder's assignment contract, we make sure they have a due date with the earnest money. So they deposit the earnest money that is on the seller contract. And there's typically even, because let's say we do a 30, 45 day close. I already have my builder beforehand. I know in I'll say 24 hours, it's usually two hours, whether or not the builder's taking it.

So it's never like I'm going to wait 30 days and then back out. It's like, okay, builder Joe by the property. There's a bad slope on it. I have to back out. I'm sorry, within two hours, right? It's not like 30 days. You're going to get the, so we've never lost an earnest money deposit. Yeah.

Because it's just, it's, you're either in and out or the builder's going to put up their own earnest money deposit. So you're trying to be in and out within two or three weeks on these? Sometimes as quick as we've done 72 hours on their closing, but typically it's going to be two to three weeks. Are you doing much in DFW, like greater DFW? We actually have never done a ton of Texas. And there's a, there's a couple reasons for it.

First is there are mass texting laws out here. So we do a lot of mass texting. Texas is one of those states where it's a little strict. So we've avoided it for that reason. Also, we've had so much volume elsewhere that we just actually haven't really dug too much into this market. We've done a lot of Florida, Nevada, Georgia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Washington, Hawaii are going to be kind of like our state. Hawaii is actually a really hot market. Yeah, but like Texas is, there's a lot of deals running through here.

And the thing is, is you don't do, this is a very major thing, right? because you're not going to do Miami. It's built out already. You're going to be like 45 minutes away from a metro city. So you wouldn't do Dallas. You would do Fort Worth, right? You want to do Austin. You would do 30 minutes outside of Austin, right?

So that's kind of the thing with all these markets is there's so many of these markets in Texas as well, where there's so many new builds going up and everything like that where they're all cookie cutter lots, right? Yeah. That's the only two requirements for this is you need more than five newly built homes in the zip code. And then you need all of the plots of land to look the same, right? So like you don't want one parcel to be nine acres and then one to be one acre. If they're all nine acres perfect and if they're all one acre perfect, because we're sending out mass offers.

So I want to send a thousand offers at once. I can't do that if every lot's different. What do you mean mass offers? So for an example, if I have a builder in... You says example of 750K. Yeah. So if your builder's going to say I'll pay 750K for any two acre parcel out here, right? I'll go get a list of, let's say, 500 people. And those 500 people paid less than 300 grand more than five years ago for a property, right? Who has equity in their properties? So typically they're all cash, most of these lots that we're dealing with.

Okay. I mean, same thing, right? Like what sellers probably have a lot of equity in their properties? They might just have a note on it. It might be paid off either way. They've got room to work with. And we'll get this list of people, right? And then we'll get their phone numbers.

And then you can either send them a mass text that says, hey, I'll give you $650,000. My favorite is actually direct mail. So we'll send them a one-page introduction letter. And then we'll send them a contract. and on that contract, I'll put our offer on it. So I'll send out everybody to their front door, introduction to ourself, our website, and then we can give you $650,000.

We can close in three weeks. If you're interested, give me a call back, shoot me an email. What's crazy about mailing the contracts is when we are living in Miami, they'd mail it back to our condo. That was our return address. So we'd go down to the mailbox, and every other day almost,

we would have a signed contract that was a deal just in there and never spoke to the seller and nothing. They just received the contract from us, had a one-page description about our company. They would just sign it, return it back, and it's done. Right.

Because every, so our average deal sizes, we've talked about big deals and we've done deals and stuff like that. But across the board, our average deals is about $8,600 per deal, right? So in like gross profit? Yeah, just profit. Like there's, we're in 90, 95% margins, right? So what, what is like the average lot size then? 50 grand, 70 grand?

Give or take, probably 50. Yeah, that's right. So we've done, we've done lots up to $3 million. We've done lots as cheap as $4,000. Okay. But mostly there are like mid five figure lots that you're making like 30, 10 to 15, 30 to 100 grand is. Yeah, like a typical deal would be like get it for 42, sell it for 50.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So you have this average profit of 8,000 you're going to make on a deal, right? And like at our peak and we were sending a ton of marketing to do this. And this is just kind of to break down how simple it can be with the right systems and stuff is we were sending about 50,000 texts a month. We had nine cold callers overseas making thousands and thousands of dials a day.

And then we were sending about 40,000 mailers per month. Right. So if you're making 90,000 offers between text and mail and you have. have all these dialers making offers and you get 10 people to say yes per month, you're making a million dollars a year. Yeah. Right? So like that's kind of the metrics behind it.

Yeah. Right. And that amount of marketing in a real example, our best month that we ever did was 37 deals in $532,000 in profit. Right. In one month? Yeah. Now TCPA, how do you, how do you work with that?

And for those watching, like that's, those are SMS texting laws. So I will say, first of all, I am absolutely not an attorney and not account. is just we work with the texting platforms. We talk to them. So first things, first is, and these is ever changing. If you're watching this a month from now, I don't know the laws. We actually personally, we wanted to limit our own liability. So we do not text anymore. But like I do know a lot about the texting and stuff like that. So we would remove Texas from our lists. You obviously have to do it in certain hours. Right. So if someone lives in Hawaii, I'm not sending a text at 9 Eastern. You have to do it in certain hours. And then you can't offer

to solicit or sell something. Right. So we're seeing if we can purchase. And then we're only doing it to certain states where it's legal. We're limiting how many we're sending out. We're doing everything correctly. There's A2P verification. So there's a lot of stuff to make sure that you're doing that correctly. But you don't have to send the mass text, right? You can do the mail.

You can just personally reach out one by one, right? So there's a bunch of different ways to do it. But like, again, definitely not an attorney. Just do your own research for anybody else. Well, my experience, there's a direct correlation between your response rate and how much effort or money you put into the outreach method. Right? Like if I'm sending, they call it lumpy mail, right?

Like an actual package with like a fake mailbox in it or something. Yeah. Like you might spend six bucks per. Yeah. But your conversion rate, your clothes rate on that might be half a percent. Whereas on a postcard, it might be 0.000.05%. Yeah. You know what I'm saying?

So like there is a direct correlation. So everyone out there wants to, they want to send like ringless voicemails. They want a mass text. They want a cold call, cold email. Because it's easy and it's low effort. But low effort often means usually. means low results. Right. Yeah. So it's a follow up on that. So the return on SMS compared to direct mail. So we've probably made slightly more off of direct mail than SMS. However, our SMS is a

higher return because it's a lot cheaper to send. So to send 50,000 messages a month, it's about $1,200 a month to send. But all time on our texting, we have 37 times return on investment. But we would typically only spend $1,200 bucks a month. So we'd make back, you know, $45 grand on that, 50 grand on that, whereas we could send $20,000, $30,000 in direct mail and we could make back, you know, $100, $150,000 and we're making more, even though our ROI is slightly less. Right. And I also, I don't want people to get the misconception. Like, keep in mind, we are running a, we are running a big business with marketing spending stuff like that. If you're just wanting to get started out in this, this is what to tell people when they ask me, right, is you don't have to

spend a bunch of money on marketing because you could literally just go get a builder that says they'll pay $700,000, or $700,000 expensive, right? Like the sellers will be very, you'll be very educated, get a builder that'll pay 50 grand for a quarter acre lot in Florida, right? And just go for free on true people search, look up one by one, the people's numbers, and you can make a hundred calls a day, right? Which is, what, 36,000 calls a year? You can't get 10 people to say yes, right? That's 100 grand over the course of a year. Yeah, and that's the thing that we always like to break down is if we talk about our profit there, is if you can do one deal a month, and one deal for us takes 30 minutes to an hour. If you can do one deal a month, you're making

over $100,000 a year. Yeah. Right. Well, and oftentimes, I like to say the harder way is the better way. Right. What you just described, looking up everyone, like you're going to learn inside and out that whole process. You're going to learn inside and out how to talk to people. Right. Whereas if you just hire a VA and India to call, right. A, the accent is going to turn off the vast majority of people. B, you're not going to get all the nuances. You're not going to sit there and listen to every call. And if you are, then why aren't you just calling yourself? Yeah. You're going to miss the nuances. You're going to miss common objections because the person calling for you doesn't care about you. They're just clocking in and clocking out, right? So if you do the unscalable,

unsexy thing and literally pick up your phone and dial that's, you know, seven-digit number to everyone, your conversion rate or response rate or pickup rate, whatever it is, is going to be so much higher. Right. And would it be if you did the scale up. That's what helped us scale our business a lot is when someone would call in from a mailer or a direct mail, all these other bigger companies or all these other companies would have a virtual assistant answer to reticle as a deal. When they talk to a virtual assistant overseas that doesn't know what's going on compared to they talk to him and I, who do you think is going to get the

deal? You know what I mean? So that helped us close so many more deals. Whereas like you said, people don't want to get into the nitty gritty first before hiring people, they hire out before they've actually done it. And that leads to them messing up before they ever see success because they don't know how to actually do the processes. Right. Yeah. Something just happened with Beehive that I think you might have missed. You can now connect your Beehive account directly to Claude, Chat, JupT, Gemini, or whatever AI tool that you use through something called MCP. So last week, I connected my newsletter to Claude. And now I can sit in Claude and say, look at my open rates from the last 30 days and tell me which subject lines perform best or draft next week's newsletter based on the topics my audience clicked on

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What markets right now are you having the most success in? There's a lot of them. So I would say the biggest deals and stuff has been kind of when we've niched down to unique markets, right? So we would do like multifamily lots in a certain area or we would do commercial lots on a main road or like freshwater lots with sea walls, right? So things that not many people would think of. This is where you're hitting your 30, 40,000-hour deals. But like a lot of the markets, anything Florida is going to be easy.

There's a market in Arkansas that's really hot right now. Benville, northwest? Yeah. Yeah. Very, very hot up there. A couple in Tennessee, North Carolina, South Carolina. More specifically, like Wilmington's always been a great market for us. The southwest Florida area, Cape Coral, Leah Acres, Benita Springs.

Which is like the strong economy areas. 100%. Just where all the buildings going, right? And like, it's crazy if you could go on chat CBT or Google and say, where are the most new construction homes at? And it's 90% of them are going to be your hottest markets, right? It just makes sense. It's the lots have went up a lot in value.

All the lots are cookie cutter. They look the same. I can make the same offers to everybody. Yeah. And there's quite literally thousands of houses. Like D.R. Horton alone, I think just scattered lots is building about 25,000 to 30,000 lots per year and 212 different divisions. Right.

Throughout the country. Divisions? Like, they have a division for each specific area and region. throughout the country. So they'll have like their Southwest division and they're Southwest Florida and they'll have Texas divisions and North Carolina divisions and they'll have a land acquisition for each one of these divisions. So we're tight with one of the land acquisition managers.

So I just email the lots to him. He goes to the approval process with them and they will purchase the property. Yeah. Man, you guys would kill it in Houston. I live in Houston and they have like hundreds of mega neighborhoods. When we're talking like two to 10,000 homes per neighborhood, crystal lagoons, lakes, like, I lived in a Houston neighborhood that had 6,000 homes, three community pools of water park, 32, like, individual parks.

And it's like cookie cutter. Yep. You know, it's like very standardized. Yeah, I'll be looking at that on Zillow on the car right home. Another reason why a lot of people stay outside of Texas is, I'm sure you know, it's a non-disclosure state. So when you look on Ziller or when you're looking at sold comparables, it doesn't show you what it's sold for it.

But you can kind of get around that. If you go on Zillow, you scroll down, you can see the price history. That also means there's alpha. Exactly. That means that nobody else is in the market. That's an edge against your competitor. If you're willing to do that. That's a reason why a lot of people stay out, which doesn't mean there's not deals.

Which is also another point or like some game I can give here is when we are like going to give our offer to a seller if we don't have a builder already, we don't go off of what things sold for. We go off of what things are listed for. Right. Because if you're a home builder and the lot next door is listed for $100,000, what a lot of people mess up is they're going to say, well, you can buy this lot for me at $120 and you can build for $300 and you can make $80. Right. And I can't tell you how often people send us deals like that, right? But it's like if I'm a builder, why wouldn't I just buy the lot next. store for 100. It's the same property, right? So you always want to bring them the deal cheaper than

they could ever find on Zelo on the market. So if the lowest listing is 100, and I call the builder and I say, hey, I'll give you this lot for 90,000. Other cheapest you get to $100,000 right now, right? They're usually going to say yes, right? And it doesn't even matter what things they're selling for because the cheapest they could currently get is going to be $100,000. And that's the thing with anybody that has a problem selling their deals or struggling to sell a deal. It's almost every single time. It's because they locked it up too high and they're way too high in price because if you got an asset which is real estate which is the most valuable asset probably in the country for below market value you can sell it for slightly below or at market value all day long so if somebody's struggling

to sell a deal and they have it locked up a 70,000 well maybe it's worth 65 if you had it locked up at 50 I guarantee you wouldn't have a hard time making money on it right yeah do you guys work at all in like rural areas like I'm thinking like Tifton Georgia or like I don't I don't I don't I don't love it because it's cheaper a lot of the times. We found a couple. And it's slow moving. It's slow moving. So it's harder to sell.

We want to be in and out quickly. Like most of the markets we're in again, so there's five newly built, five new builders over there. So I can call all five builders in a day. I know it's going to close in two or three weeks or I'm terminating the contract. Right. If it's rural, you have to either buy it yourself and list it. Like there's a lot more that goes into it. So we've never really done it.

We've 95% of what we've done has been just residential. and then we'll throw in a commercial. Like when we got more experience, we've done a couple hundred deals, like we started doing a little bit of the commercial work, which is not easy to get into as a beginner. But it definitely is very profitable if you can learn that side of things.

But it's mostly just residential straight to a home builder. Yeah. So I think one thing that makes this podcast different is I've launched so many different businesses that oftentimes I just happen to interview people that are doing something that I've done. Right. You're doing it better than I did and way more at scale.

Like I just dip in and out of things, right? So I don't have a lot of deep experience in one niche, but I have a very broad experience in a lot of niches. So one publicly traded company that's doing this with homes, which I'm sure you've heard of is open door. Right. Have you heard of them? I actually haven't.

No. So obviously Zillow tried this a few years ago. Not with land with real estate. And Zillow's model was, all right, this home's fair market value is 500,000. We're going to pay for $450. We're going to like take care of the closing fees and all that. And we're going to sell it for $480, you know, like slightly under. market, we buy a slightly more under market and sell it for a slight profit. And they lost their

shirts. They completely lost their shirts. They shut it down after a couple of years. Their stock price tank and they were like, we're not going to be in the home buying and selling business anymore. We're going to stay a technology company. Open Door has been around for a while. And I could be misquoting this. So no one quote me. But like they've struggled. Their stock price has gone up recently because they have a new CEO that's very loud and flashy. But from what I understand, it's not reflected in their actual financials. And what they're trying to do is home buying and selling scale, not wholesaling, but they're actually buying the homes and selling them at scale. It's like e-buying, right?

But that's kind of what me and a business partner did like five years ago. What we would do is every morning we would scrape Zillow listings, nationwide. And we would take the Zestimate and then we would take the list price and we'd take days on market and we would just like cut it in half and we'd say which homes, you know, are way under the Zestimate. We all know it's not accurate, but I think usually it's pretty accurate. Yeah, yeah. A lot of times it's not, right?

And we would just send out mass text, math offers, and we ended up locking up a bunch of properties in the contract in like the most random places. And what do we do? We lost our shirts, right? And I'm getting, I think what you're doing is smart. So I'll get to it. Yeah, yeah. But my point was, and my learning here and why I won't invest in Open Door as a company and

why Zillow failed at this is because there are so many little local nuances. This, like, the school district isn't even that little. That's pretty public, but like little nuances like this employer moving into town or the smell from this cattle lot right down the road. Charmites. That a guy in Florida would never know about. Like, the clay is expansive and the foundation has issues where the locals know all about it. That home's been on the market for two years.

And from two states away, it's like, this is such a deal. Right. But the guy next door is like, no crap. It's very overpriced because X, Y, and Z is true that no. else knows about. So what you're doing, I think, is really smart because of the fact that it's land. Right. Your variables are cut down by like 90%. So everything you'll need to know is going to either be on a county website or the aerial view, right? So like, or sorry to tell you what you're looking at a comparable for a house. There's so many different things I can go into it, right? One could have another

bedroom. One could be 20 years newer than the one right next door. One could have a pool, right? There's so many things that can go that can be different. But if you're looking at a quarter acre lot that has no trees on it and it's just a flat, empty lot in Florida. No flood zone. No flood zone. No flood. No flood zone and you see one three lots over. No turtles. This one just sold for 40,000 and you get this one at 30. You can most likely sell yours for 40,000 because the other one is exactly the same. There's no extra bathrooms.

There's no extra bedrooms. There's no pool. It's all exactly the same. And a lot of people compare house flipping and house wholesaling and all that stuff to what we're doing. And I don't think it's even in the same ballpark as a business model. I think we're more similar to like a drop shipping store where you get someone to buy a t-shirt for $20 and you get it for $10 and you make $10 and you make $10. middle, right? Like, that's more of what we're doing than house flipping itself, right? And there's so many different variables like you mentioned. And you could get a property and it has termites in it.

And it has, uh, the, the roof didn't come back as good as you thought. And even though the inspection report didn't have this electrical issue, the foundation's wrong. And a lot of people lose money on houses and stuff like that. So I, I completely agree. And we don't, we don't touch houses. We won't even. And we've done one or two just because it fell on our lap and we're good at wholesaling. But it was a nightmare compared to land. And then another beautiful thing about land, which I love and why we got into this business partner to begin with is when you're selling a wholesale house, right? When you have a property undercontinent, you're selling, you're selling to a flipper that's buying what you had some experience buying two to four houses a year, typically a flipper. They're cash strapped because they have to invest themselves.

When you're selling to a D.R. Horton, they're a multi, multi billion dollar company buying 30,000 lots a year. You can rents and repeat and sell these deals over and over again and do 10, 20 deals a month with one builder, rents and repeat in the same areas compared to with a house. You know, it's one and done. You're not going to repeatedly sell to that builder. Someone lives there. So like if we're getting a deal and I send a deal to a builder on email right now, he might say, okay, I'm going to go drive the lot. I'll let you know in 15 minutes. If I was selling a house to somebody and I'm in Texas and they're in Florida and I have a seller at 200K and a buyer at 250, they're going to meet in the house.

Where do the odds they go and meet at the house and don't talk about the price and cut you out in two seconds? Yeah. Or get upset or something goes wrong. Then someone has to move out of the house. So then you're making someone move out of the house, get movers. Then they're going to do inspections and try to talk you down. It's just a model. that I completely avoid. The one thing I will do is, which is luxury, which is something we've

gone into a little more recently, is tear downs, right? Because when I'm looking at a teardown, which a teardown to explain that is if it's a beautiful property that you could build a $10, $20 million house on the water and a metric. It's like a low supply neighborhood. Right. Right. Like a, you could build a $15 million house on this lock, but the house that's on it right now was built 70 years ago and it's a thousand square feet. Right. So when you buy the house from that person, that might have paid $100,000 for it, you can give them. $3 million because you're just going to bulldoze the house and build a luxury home. Right.

So, but again, when you're doing that, you're just looking at it as land value. You're not looking at it as a home. Yeah. Now, even though there are a lot fewer variables on land versus homes, surely there's been some times when he locks up under contract and then you realize, oh crap. Oh, it happens often. Like, we didn't realize X, Y, and Z. Like, this thing's coming into town.

Tell me some stories about that happening. Yeah. So we've never lost, necessarily if we could just back out. Because of how your model. Yeah, so we can just send a termination email the way that our contract is structured and then back out. So what are some things to look out for? Wetlands. Wetlands.

So, like, you can see this on the aerial. It's not a flood zone, but wetlands? Wetlands. So, like, it would mean so, and you can see this from the aerial is the trees on it will look gray on Zillow. And if the trees are green, it's fine. If the trees are gray, it means that it's flooded. The trees are dead because there's water there. So it might cost literally a couple hundred grand to fill in the dirt, right?

So Benita Springs, this is where we got the law for 165. Wetlands report came back 40 percent clean. If it came back 100% clean, so we sold it for 275. We would have sold it for 600 if it was 100% clean. The lot next store, I got under contract for 145. We couldn't sell that lot because it was 100% wetlands. So the lots range from $135,000 or $90,000 to $600,000 based on a simple survey because of the, like side by side it could be, right?

Just based on how much water is on this property. And then like some of the properties in Arkansas have slope. So you can only build if they're, you know, 10 foot setback on the slope or if it's 100 foot setback, whatever it is. The slope can differ a lot and it can range from being worth $5,000 up to $25,000 in that area. Utilities, right? So you could either build well septic if there's no utilities or if there's utilities or water sewer connection, then it's going to be worth a lot more. You can check this on the county appraisers. If there's a seawall, it's worth about $20,000 to $30,000 more.

Seawall if it's on the water. What else kind of affects value? Trees, but it's only a couple grand. Basically about water rights or mineral rights. We've never done too much with that, to be honest. Or like well depth. Yeah. Never a huge perk test is a big one.

Yeah. And North Carolina, it's a big one. Yeah, to like see if it's buildable. And it's state by state dependent, right? And like everybody watching this, like we're, it probably sounds like a foreign language. Some of these words we're saying, we have no idea. Like if I did a new state tomorrow, I would learn new words like like, like, but we got into a market the other day and like scrub jays, right?

What's a scrub jay? It's a protected bird in this area. Yeah. So you learn all this as you go and you just basically just call the city and say, what does this mean? How do I get a report for it? So it's all very simple stuff. Yeah.

But that's, and this is also very seldom. Right, like maybe 5% of the properties have an issue with it or a power line running through it. A big thing else that builders don't want is main roads. Right. Like nobody wants to live on a street that's on a highway. Right. So like they don't want main roads. Of course, wildlife, slope, wetlands, utilities help.

Yeah. But again, the beauty of it is because we talked to the builder first. They tell you a lot of these things beforehand. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'm looking at land right now. And I wanted to research if I could put in a well.

And there's a public directory, state mandate of all the wells in Texas. Is it an oil well? Is it a wastewater, you know, whatever? And I noticed in my area there were no wells. And in asking Claude and everything, it was like the aquifer was a thousand feet down. But then five miles south, everyone had a well. Really? Because the aquifer was 40 feet down, you know? So it's like little nuances like that that there actually are tools for most of the time, but you have to know about them and like which tools to look for. I like your like gray and green tree example. What other kind of hacks or tricks like that do you look for that doesn't require like sophisticated tools here's a big one is so there's a website called true people search and you can put in an address and I'll show you who the other pages

yeah exactly so if we get a deal even if I have a builder the first thing I do is I call the neighboring houses right because the most annoying thing is a homeowner you're driving over nailed you do not want new construction next door and so I always call the next door neighbor hey I just want to give you the courtesy I am planning on selling this to a home builder the lot right next door to you right a lot of time this person lives out of the state, they've never been able to reach them. They just know there's a lot next door, right? I always like to call the neighbor as a courtesy in case you want to extend your yard, put a pool back there. See if they're an interested buyer. Exactly. And they pay over market value. And the thing about the neighbors is it depends if they have the cash or not, but they will

always make an offer. Sometimes it's way below what you have it out, but it's always worth. Because you don't want, it's new construction is loud. You're driving over nails. Like a lot of times they like the yard there for parking, whatever it may be. Right. So in like if the land is relatively cheap, like they'll take a second mortgage out. Like, it actually has real value to them. Yeah, yeah. So we sell a lot of deals to the next. It's interesting. You say that they'll pay more because I'm living proof of this. So I, I live on two acres and there's a one acre lot behind me. And I live on a road and then there's a road behind me on that one acre lot. And so that lot faces that road south, my lot faces north. Right. And I always wanted to put a road through the entire property that connected, like my road that connected

the road in front of me to the road behind me. And finally, the guy behind me puts up his one acre lot for sale, that had a warehouse on it for $470 grand. And it sat for over a year because this were like 400 max. And I had a mobile home on it. Yeah. There was just a lot of hair on it. And it sat and sat and sat and sat. And I talked to him and he wouldn't budge at all because he wasn't motivated.

He's like he just wanted to see. And finally I was like, 470. Wow. Like I overpaid and I knew overpaid, but I don't regret it at all. I knew what I was doing. I own it now. I own the whole strip. I have my own road.

Yeah, because you have real value for it, right? Like you're not just putting a spec on like. No one else would pay him. I am that of me. So that's like we every single time. Every single time neighbor. And then when the deal closes, we try to go ahead and get referrals. Is anyone else you need?

So we made a lot of money off of this, which it's technically free. So what we would do is when we had a deal close, we would have our executive assistant. She would handwrite a thank you letter to them and say, hey, if you had a good experience with us, if you refer a family member or a friend to sell their property with us and we get a deal done, we'll send you a thousand dollars in cash. As like a joint venture deal with them. So we did about 28 or 29 deals like that last year just off their referral deals. See, that's what people get wrong about referrals is they're stingy with it.

Right. It's like, I'll give you a $50 Amazon gift card. Right. But you just said the value of your deal is $8,600. Exactly. So a thousand bucks is like, it still gives you enough meat on the bone. And the way we look at it too is that's just $7,600 in profit. That doesn't come out of our pocket.

When the deal closes, we pay them $1,000. We didn't actually have to pay that. Right, right. What other kind of hacks like that, like tools or ways of looking at Google Maps or? The biggest hand can say is just to be consistent, really. Like there's not, it is really, it really is simple, right? Like it's, it's just, you're finding a builder and then you're finding someone to sell it for less and you're connecting the two with the contracts. I would just say the biggest thing is being consistent with it every single day.

And the majority of people that are sick to it and they are consistent and they get the experience. Once you get to that first deal, it's the same process every single time over and over again, right? So that that's basically it, right? It's just staying consistent with it. It's the same thing as everything, right? Like, you're able to grow this podcast so big because you're doing multiple podcasts a week. You're doing it. Like you get better as you go, right?

It's the same thing with this, right? And a lot of people are just scared to start because they're scared to make cold calls or they don't want to put themselves out there or start to do it. But that's the reason why they'll fail. If they just started doing it, think of if you made 50 cold calls a day for a year, how much better you would be at it a year later. And then all of a sudden you're an expert and you can talk to these sellers and you know what you're doing and you know what price to offer and you know what to talk about in the area.

And it's like you didn't just learn that or nothing magic happening. You're not using a magic website. You just put yourself in this situation for a year and now you're an expert. But it just is from doing it. Right. You know, as far as cold calls go, like, I'm introverted. I hate cold calls. When I started one of my bigger businesses, we sold wholesale iPhone parts.

Okay. And we did millions of dollars, and I never made one cold call. I outsource it to three virtual assistants in the Philippines. And it worked. I'm sure it would have worked better if I did it myself, but I didn't want to. Yeah. But in the, you know, I've done real estate for a long time and I spent three years doing it full time. And I made a lot of cold calls during those years.

And I noticed that those cold calls were a lot less intimidating. because you're not actually like you're selling them on the idea of selling their home or to the builder of buying a lot from you. But literally you're not selling to them. Yeah. You're trying to give them money. 100%. And a lot of people have a misconception of because with wholesale houses, I know you've got to build rapport and you have a 20, 30 minute conversation. Our conversations with these sellers are no longer than 90 to 120 seconds.

Typically we get on the phone. It's a numbers game. We're just in and out. If they want the price, great. We're going to have a quick conversation, make an offer, move on to the next. Like how a call would go is if I'm calling you right now. I would say, hey, Chris, this is Carson. You just spoke to my assistant.

I'm interested in purchasing your property, one, two, three, Southwest Street. You're going to say, oh, you know, like how much do you want to pay? I saw you wanted 20,000. I can actually give you $16,500, and I'll cover out the closing fees. They're going to say, oh, come on, can you do 18? Can you do 19? Are they going to say, no, that's too much.

I say, all right, no worries. Save my number. Write it down. If you're ever interested in selling, that's where I'm at, have a good day. That's the whole call. Like, he's had calls. He likes to get him to sign on the phone, Jackson.

I typically let him wait for the night or I get him to sign the next day. He likes to get him to sign around on the phone. He will have a call where he calls a seller for the first time, speaks to them for the first time, and has a contract signed within five minutes. First touch point. First touch point to contract signed. That is the one thing that's...

So these conversations are not as hard as people think. That's one more piece of game. I will say that this has made us, at this point, probably over a million dollars, is every call from the beginning. If we did not agree on price, I would say, you know what? Say my name, Jackson Land Guy. And if you need to sell for whatever reason, if you need cash, I will be able to close in two weeks whenever I go.

My price, tomorrow's price might not be today's price. But I'm always buying land. Save my number is Jackson Land guy. I did a hundred cold calls a day for three years. Right. Like that's 100,000, whatever it may be. Like there's a trickle in. It's just like every single day you're just cast an efficient line out.

And eventually you're going to start to catch fish, right? We have made so many deals from that. And when they come back six months later, it's not the price you offer them. It's name your price because they're calling for a reason. Yeah. Right. So that's one piece and that's free to do. Right. No one really does that. It's just like they get upset if they don't accept their offer. They hang out. Yeah. Or like I said, they go at that other approach and piss the person off. It's like you're not going to have a connection and they're not going to come back and want to work with you if you're not being polite to them. Right. We do a lot of videos about AI stuff because I firmly believe that selling AI services to small, the medium sized business owners is the best opportunity on the planet right now. That's why I built a community of people doing just that. There's over 300 of us by now. We're at playmakers.a.com. Come check us out. So will you not budge on your price then? Like, in that, I have to 16 to 5 is 16 5?

We don't, we don't low ball at all. So I come in with a very strong offer. And my thing is I'll always go up to the next thousand, but I won't live negotiate. So like, I learned early that like if you try to, if it's, so if I offer 165 and a seller is like, I'll sign 17 right now. If I say yes, they don't end up signing. But if they say, well, really? But for whatever reason. No, I can see.

It's huge. But if they say, can you do 17? All right, I'm going to put you on hold for two minutes. I'm going to run into my partner's office. I'll be right back. Don't hang up. Hey, Carson, can we do 17? Yes.

Cool. Wait, 90 seconds. Awesome. We're good to go. Right. And just that. Or you've got a hem and ha. Or even on a text message back where we'll send a message out, we get a response.

Let's say we're going to sell it for $25,000. If they text back and say I want 20 plus closing costs, we're not going to say yes. Because then they're going to think about it. They're going to go shop it around. So we'll say, I'll do $19,000 plus closing costs. Again, not because we want to get greeting and get the extra thousand. to help us get the deal signed a lot more than disagreeing. Yeah.

Man, I'm just thinking of how smart that is. This is just like, you're not trying to extract every penny out of this little. Wait, you don't try to get greedy with it. This is the price. Yeah, it's just like if I have a builder at 60,000, right? Like, I'll see okay, they paid nine grand. Like, I'll explain everything to them. I'm like, when you listen on the market, be like, right now I can get you, I said 50,000.

Right now I can get you 44,000 plus all closing costs and I can close in 21 days. And I'm just, I'm literally taking the exact conversation I have with the builder, attracting six grand. Yeah. And you can tell them. the truth, the lowest listing on the market right now is 55,000. It's been sitting there for 92 days. If they pay out realtor fees, they're going to lose $4,000 off the bat. If they pay out closing costs, they're going to lose $2,200. They're going to lose $2,200. They're not going to get

full price. If they get an offer for 90% of market value, which is typical for real estate, they're getting an offer for $45,000. They already lost the other $6,200. They're walking away with $39,000 plus closing costs. I'm offering you $39,000 plus closing costs. We're going to close in 30 days, and I do this all the time. It's going to be a smooth process. And then they say yes, you sell it for 45, you make six grand, everybody wins. Yeah. How much do you try to, like, I'm sure it's completely different working with the builders. Do they try to strong arm you? Or like, if their actual price is 60, they're like, I need to pay 45. Again, so we're going in markets with more than five builders, right? So like, if they're low ball, I mean, I'll call them

out for it. Right. And they already gave me their price beforehand and I told them, yeah or nay. The builders are like, they're actually a lot better to work with when you think. They're, they're amazing to work with because they're making six figures on these builds, right? Like, They're competing with each other. So to have someone that can bring them 30 deals a month, like they're not going to risk us going to work with somebody else because we're bringing them a lot of volume. And that's the thing too. People ask me this question all the time. I was talking with somebody yesterday about it is how do I build a good connection with a builder?

I'm trying to reach out to these builders. I've never done a deal before. And I can't get them to really be really interested in when I'm bringing them. And the only way to build a good connection with a builder is by bringing them a good deal. When we would bring builders good deals, they would text us every single morning. Hey Carson, hey, Carson, hey Jackson, you got more deals. You got more lots. You got more lots.

I want to buy more lots. They want more. To the opposite of that is you can actually push them up and they're like, they would respect that. Right. So I was bringing this one builder. I was bringing 10, 12 deals a month. And after running the same campaign for a little while, we kind of rinse the campaign out.

And I'm like, listen, I can't, I can't get these to you at 40 anymore. If you bump your price to 45, I'm good to go. Otherwise, like, I'm not going to be able to bring you these deals at 40 anymore. Right. And it's, okay, fine, 425 works. Right. And you can actually bump their price, bump their price. And I'll tell them what I'm making.

Like, they don't, they don't care, right? And then if you get a good deal, right, like if they're paying $42.5 and I get one at 17, hey, I appreciate the work. Take this one at 38. Right. And they really appreciate that, stuff like that. But some of the, honestly, the investors are bad the builders aren't. So the investors that are land banking and stuff, they will try to low ball you. Right. And like, we're investors. We buy lots from assigners all the time. So, but I'm like, I'm the last person you want to sell to because if I'm buying a lot to invest in it, I'm at 60, 70% of market value. So if you exhausted all your resources and you really can't sell it, I'll take an asset at 60% of

market value, but I'm not the buyer that you want to work with. And that's how most investors are. Do you ever buy stuff on the market? So here's the only way to do on market and how to flip on market, in my opinion with land, is you have to get it early, right? So anything that's been there for a while, there's usually something wrong with the lot, wildlife, whatever, because land at good prices moves quickly. But if I was trying to, if I had a builder, right, in hot market, right, like a Bella Vista, Lehigh Acres, like there's dozens of listings a day. If I just go and I have notifications on and first thing in the morning and as the new ones come in, if I'm the first person to make an offer, if they listed at 40 and I offer them 20 grand, 10-day close,

they might say yes. But if they're in it for three months, they probably already have another 40 offers. But if you're the first one to make the offer, you got a good chance at it. Otherwise, you don't really have a shot. Is that a viable model to just do that? Yeah, it works. To babysit those listings, set up notifications. It works. We had somebody that just did when he got a property that was, I believe it was listed and he got it for a million dollars. Yeah. And he had a builder at 1.1.31. 30 days later, it was his first lander. He got a $110,000 dollar wire. Just straight market. Got it for a million, sort of for $1.1 million to a builder in Orlando. A lot of people do bad business in the whole wholesaling game and stuff,

and we've always just taken the approach of just do the right thing, like build relationships with everybody. And because we've always done it, that way, people will bring us deals. Everything always works out. Like, there's an endless amount of deals, right? Yeah, that's a million. It's not worth wasting your time or spending your time focusing on a deal that's not going to happen or a deal that some real sales in our contract.

And so many people waste so much time on leads they shouldn't be continuing to follow up with and deals they shouldn't be focusing on because there are so many deals out there. are endless. Yeah. You don't need to be spending three weeks on a lead that's not going to sell to you. You know, I feel like this is so much better than wholesaling homes. I remember distinctly, I was following some guy back when I was doing that. And he was like, if you're in a house, if you're doing a walkthrough of a home, you're trying to wholesale and there's really nothing wrong with it. Always just tell them that, oh, the layout's bad. The layout's bad. And it's like, that's always the, and I'm like, that's just so scuzzy. Right.

And it's, and you would be shocked at some of the things that I hear. I'm wing in the industry. Like, and that's what, like, we've always take. taken this is like, this is why we do the builder method because I, like, I can't sit there in low ball all day. Like, I just don't have it in me to do it. Like, the best case scenario for household sailors to lowball them, right? And they will sit there and make stuff up, even with the land sometimes. Like, I've heard of people making up that there's wildlife on the property when there's not wildlife. Yeah. It's like they're never going to build a real business like that. You're never going to build real relationships. You're going to be able to scale like that

essentially, right? And it's, we've always taken the approach of the base hits, right? And like, we'll do 35K deals in a month. Right. And it's very, very successful. But then, Then, like, our big month, for an example, we got two big deals that also come in that month, right? So, which just happens based on volume. But yeah, it's, it's definitely a tough industry. And anyone that's looking to get into this whatsoever, like, just do good business, right? Like, I promise the carm is not worth it. Yeah, yeah. What are your monthly and yearly numbers look like right now? So we're doing anywhere from like 100 to 300,000 a month. Sometimes we have big deals come in, right? And this is 90% margins. We've done, we've had a couple months where, like, we've had deals fall through.

done like 70, but outside of that, we've done over 100,000 a month for the last 40 months straight overtake. And growing. Yeah. So this is kind of why it's an interesting model, right? Like it's lumpy. Two of our three biggest months ever or in 2023,000 when we had little experience because there is 150,000 already or 220,000. You know what I mean? So like big deals skew everything. Yeah. But the actual knowledge and our business itself has grown if that makes sense. Right. So like they compound. Right. But like you can't, I never track these on like a month by month. You have to look at a kind of quarterly measure you're growing. You get disheartened unnecessarily.

If we have $190,000 or a deal and then we have two more $40,000 our deals that we're supposed to close in May get pushed to June 1st. Like then June is $400,000 a month and then July a deal gets pushed into August. So we did $100,000. We might have had a better month in July, but the numbers don't reflect it. Right. So it's kind of a hard business model with metrics. Our biggest year was $2.1 million in assignments, 1.7 in profit. Right.

That was with the team and stuff like that. But the craziest thing about that year is we did 230. land deals that year, almost the deal every single business day. I think there's 255 business days. So we were almost the deal a day every single day. What does your team look like? So we have one assistant that sends transaction coordinator, right, sends our contracts. Yeah, United States, contracts, title work keeps the sellers happy, right? Because you're doing 30 deals a month, right? Here's what you have to. And guys, 30 deals a month is significant numbers. Like anything over like 10 deals a month, you're looking at about a million bucks a year.

So with this is we are dealing with So 30 deals a month Where you have 30 closings 30 new ones going into escrow Which means you just got to buy your seller 31's going into your inventory 30 more contracts going out right So I'm dealing with 120 sellers

90 buyers Probably 50 title companies 10 states every single month Right So their job is to just keep everyone happy Right Every seven days you're calling every seller You're getting all the contracts out

You're making sure the title work goes smoothly Things of that nature acquisition managers, so two acquisition managers. And their job is to just call sellers, agree on price, get an email, right? And when they get that email, transaction coordinator sends a contract, right? And then Carson and I are sending the campaigns. We're focusing on big deals. We're doing things of that nature.

And that's it, right? And then we have, and then VA is overseas as well. Goal callers overseas. How many VAs? We've been up to nine. We've been up to managing a lot. But I would say on average probably about five. Yeah.

Where do you find them? Philippines. Yeah. And online upwork or online jobs at Ph. Like what we'll do, honestly, and we usually hire in bulk when we're like scaling our VAs and we'll get 10 of them on a Zoom call. We'll ask them their experience, stuff like that. And a lot of the times you can actually find really good talent with this, right? So it's actually, in my opinion, it's harder to find talent in the States versus the Philippines because in the States.

Like, if they don't have a job, it's usually a reason. And the Philippines, like a wholesale company could go under and a talented VA loses their co-calling role because that company went under, not because they're poor. Right. So you get on a Zoom call with all of them. You ask them their questions. You want to find someone with experience. And just someone, the biggest thing is it hasn't been accident, it hasn't been how smart they are. It's how friendly they are.

And their attitude, that's been it. And the difference in their attitude is a difference in one that brings in three leads a day and 12. Right? Just because people enjoy talking them. They're not going to hang up early. So we just look for attitude. We would mass interview on Zoom. So we would get, you know, 50 people to come show up to a meeting.

It would be a very simple interview. It would say, hey, here's my, what I do. Here's my vision. Here's what we're doing with the company. Here's the position we're looking for. I want you to tell me your name. I want you to tell me your experience, who you are. quick little story about yourself and then we'll go one by one by one and then from that you can kind of

get a gauge on somebody's personality how they contrasts each other like how they would speak to you and that's what we hired a lot of them we got up to over 20 cold callers at one time so well filipinos naturally have two things going for them they're very friendly by nature yep and their accent is pretty solid yeah have you seen seen what theo vaughan says about philippines no no he he loves them they're also one thing i'll mention too very very loyal yeah very low we've had some with us now for over four years, right? Like amazing. I've worked with the same Filipinos for like 13 years.

Yeah. And also apart to the people that give a bad rap in wholesale, a lot of people are rude and disrespectful of virtual assistance. So if you treat them nicely, they are so loyal and so hard working and work so hard for you. If you were just nice to them and treat them like a normal person because most people don't, which I don't understand. What tools are in your tool about?

Like what tech, what's your tech stack? Tech stack. So, yeah, Firebridge is a big one, right? So we actually developed this software over a couple of years. and this is going to be what it is, and we're watching V2 in the next couple of weeks so excited about that, but it has,

it's a full-blown CRM for, like it was built, like nothing in the past was ever built for land flipping. It wasn't a thing, right? So this is strictly built. It's your CRM. It's your title work.

It's your contracts. And then it has 12,000 buyers right now, has about 6,000 buy boxes. So what they're looking for, contact information, networks, you can partner with other people and stuff like that. So that is one that,

transparently I developed for myself, and then it just happened to be able to be a cool software. Land Portal. There's a good one. Land portal prop stream. So what those two do is so like I now have my buyer, right? And they want to prop in a certain zip code. Right.

So then with Land Portal PropStream, you can pull a list of that. All the, the owners, their mailing address, their first last name, their property address, right? So that's where you get your lead list from. Then you go to we use kind skip tracing, which is how you get their phone numbers, right? And then if you want to send mass texting, you can use reply smart. You could use smarter contact. So many. Yeah.

There's a lot of those. Those are the main ones, though. We use pretty much three software. So a list pulling software. We use buyer bridge for CRM and buyers and contracts. And then, you know, SMS, if you're just standard operation, most people just start with SMS. Direct mail, REI print mail. Yeah.

So they're a big one. They've always been good to us. They always help us out with the legality and stuff. And then as far as managing the dialers with the cold callers, we've used ready mode and batch dialer. Right. Do you use triple line dialers? Yes.

Yeah. Do you use Mojo? Never. No. No. No. No. No.

No. But I've heard a lot about it. Yeah. We were on ready mode for a long time, and then about six months ago, we moved over to batch dial. But all of these tools, like, again, this is to run a very high, 100 deals, hundreds of deals. Like, you can start with nothing. Like, we did, we were pin and paper, whiteboard and just cold calling herself for the longest time. Can people start this with nothing?

Oh, 100%. 100%. iPhone, internet connection. Yeah, 100. Like, I wish you, like, for an example, I wish you wouldn't have told me you just bought that lot next door because I would have said, hey, would you like your neighbor? And then I would have found their number on my phone, called them and made them an offer. just like, like that's how, it's as simple as that, though, you know what I mean? Like you're at your, you're at your, your buddy's house and you ask their dad, like, hey, I see

there's a lot next to her. How much, how much is that worth to you? Yeah. Cool call them, right? Or just go look up builders, right? Go in Zillow and this is the free way to find your builders is you go in Zillow and Zillow.com free website, everybody. And you filter it by houses built in 2025 or 2026, right? For sale. Because what this means is if they built a house in 2026 and it's for sale, they're building houses to resell them. So they need more land to build more houses. These respect homes. They're not. Exactly. Custom, like build on your own lot.

Because if I built my own home, I'm not going to list it for sale, right? So it's someone that's building homes to resell them. And it'll literally say their name and their phone number on Zillow. Yeah. Call them, hey, you just built this house. One, two, three, main street, do you want more land? They say yes. Now you have your little buy box.

Then you just click on the lots and you can either go on market or off market, find their phone numbers for free and just call them and offer them five to $10,000 is less than the building. Okay. That's it. Right. And that's the beauty of knowing this skill now is him or I say this all the time. We joke about it.

If we lost everything, if we went bankrupt today, we could go into a public library completely for free. Go on Zillow and make 20K a month wholesaling land in Lehigh Acres. Yeah, with a flip phone. Like, it would specifically. Lee High acres. It's just such a hot. That would probably be the first. It's easy.

It's the easy. It's the easiest for us, I would say. But is it big enough? Oh, there's 75,000 lots off market right now. Oh, my gosh. I think there's nine. There were nine hundred and nine sales in the last 90 days. Yeah.

Like a couple thousand a year easily. Like, holy crap. We've probably done over 300 deals there at least. So, all right. So that's how you find the builder. Zillow. Right. What's the best,

most efficient way to find sellers if you don't have access to sophisticated software or a bunch of money? Honestly. Yeah. You feel like,

where do you find the locks? You could literally go. Zillow again. You could find them Zillow. You can click on Zillow, right? So like, they say they want a lot. You can just click on the lot. Look the address up on true people search.

Okay. We'll give you their number. Just call the seller, right? And then, uh, you can, I mean, you could find this very, very easily or you could just chat CBT. Write me a signable contract legal in all 50 states for vacant land.

Yeah. Put it, send in on a free contract service and you got your seller contract, do the same thing with the buyer contract, do it to your buyer, and then you just send it both to the title company with all the contact information. So the seller information, the buyer information, your information, the two contracts, you wait two to three weeks, you get your wire for the difference. Two people were recently showed did it for free.

One person made $5,200 in their first 14 days, which was kind of the quickest we should see someone start to get paid, which was crazy. And then somebody else did three deals for $9,500 in assignments completely for free, marketing for free. He didn't even have an LLC set up yet. Yeah. What's like the downside of this industry? Like every industry has tradeoffs.

Every industry has downsides. The one, and this is why, as of recently, we've started some new business ventures, is it's not something you're going to exit, right? So like we've done over the past four years now, we've done a little over $6 million in profit. And if we shut down our business tomorrow and we fired our employees and we stopped working on it, it's not a business I could sell, right? So like if I started an insurance company, for example, and it did $6 million in profit over three years, I'm probably selling that for 20 million bucks.

Right? So that's the one thing is like I haven't seen really someone get a big exit from it. Other than... Why I think it's one of the best ways to get into real estate is because, A, you can make a lot of cash flow, you know, which is hard in real estate because you typically have to have a bunch of money to put into if you want to make any sort of cash flow or build any equity or get any money in long term. And then the other thing is that you get a lot of experience and connections.

So you're dealing with sellers. You're dealing with interesting people that own land. You're dealing with realtors. You're dealing with agents. You're dealing with the biggest home builders throughout the country is you're dealing with all different sorts of people in the real estate world where you're dealing with land, you're dealing with houses, you're dealing with builders. It's a great introduction to real estate. And especially if you ever thought about building or if you ever want to do development

later on, it's a great first step to get capital, make connections and learn the ins and outs of actually what goes into it. I will say the biggest downside that we experienced with it is being new to business when we started and making a lot of money, but it's having to pay Uncle Sam at the end of the year. It's very high profit margins. There's not many write-offs. It's like, you guys get started in this and you make a lot of money, you're writing a big check to the IRS at the end of the year, right? So that was, that's been our biggest downside, I would say. So the playbook is generate a contract on Chazupti, and you probably want a lawyer to look over that. Right. You can find one on YouTube, you can get one. Sure. An assignable contract. I would start with my local area just because I feel

comfortable there. And I think it's easier to buy and sell to people that feel an affinity towards you because you're local, right? And you just literally go to Zillow. You find your builders, get their price, put them in a Google sheet. Right. You go back to Zillow. find your lots. Go find a neighborhood that you're familiar with. Put it on the Google Earth mode. Oh, that one's that one's blank. There's no home there who owns it. Give them a call, true people search and just do that over and over and over. 100%. If like realistically, if you're okay at making these calls and you make a thousand, like let's say you talk to 100 people, not just 100 calls, but you have 100 conversations with people I did that own these lots. Total. Are you going to get a sale

from that or do you need more volume? I mean, some people will get a sale on their first call. Some people could take too, like, I can't give a good metric for this because everybody, like, there's also people that are way more aggressive, right? So if I have a buyer at 100,000, if you offer them all 98, you'd make probably six sales. If you offered them all 40, it might take you a thousand calls, right? So it depends what your offers look like. I will say, though, which is not impossible, right? So like people want to hustle, I'll do anything, whatever. Like, you could talk to 100 people a day. Yeah. And I can guarantee anybody that does that that's making 36, $36,500 offers, 10K less than a builder will pay, we'll make money doing this. Yeah.

Right. Listen, I need more people like this to interview on my podcast. So if you know of someone with a side hustle or a business that's unique and cool and super profitable, email Molly, M-O-L-L-L-Y at co-founders.com. That's one word co-founders.com. Molly at co-founders.com, tell her your story and we'll give you $100 if we end up interviewing them. But a lot of people just don't want to work in today's day and age, right? And they'll make 11 calls and then they'll go and be like, oh, I did this for a week and it didn't work, this business model doesn't work, right? But anybody that truly works hard in this, like, eventually, like, you cannot fail if you don't quit at it, right?

But, like, to answer your question, I would imagine, like, if you talk to 100 people, you're going to have leads for sure. Oh, 100%. You're going to be doing some research. You're going to be chasing down some leads. And the beauty of it is even if you're starting out for free and if you're making those dials and you don't have the paid software, you have the opportunity to hit a six-figure deal. You could hit 150,000 other profit deal.

That's something else to say. That's the, that's the craziest thing about this business model, which we experience young, is I've never seen like in let me know like made because I know you know a bunch of business models but I have not seen another business model where I can make a call to someone I've never spoken to and with no degree no experience no real estate license nothing in the 30 minute phone call make a quarter million dollars yeah I've never you know what like with just yeah zero money it's a dynamic of the call you're offering to give them money right but it's not your money it's the builder's money right right right but he's happy it's like everyone's happy right I think a lot of land owners don't realize until it's too late that land can sit for years. on the market. And so if I'm, you're probably already saying this, but if I'm you, I'm like, listen, go look at Zillow. Go search for like on Zillow for over a year. Most of it is land.

Exactly. And because it went up, again, you're paying $2,000 a month in property tax. They're like, oh, I'll just sit on it until it's worth $50 grand. And I offer them $40. It's like in five years, you just lost $10,000. Like what's the difference? So when they start to understand that, because again, if they've owned it for more than five years and they haven't built yet,

they're probably not going to. And a lot of people don't. Right. They're just sitting on property taxes, right? A lot of people haven't even been out to these properties, though. A lot of them have been passed down. The big ones is also going to be like out-of-state owners, right? Because they purchased a lot in Florida with plans to one-day build, then change of plans, right?

They never built there. Another thing, too, that we got a lot of deals off of is this is kind of game, too, is if you get a deal with someone and they're at a good price, a fair price that you already sold to a builder, you can check their linked properties on one of those websites like PropStream or Land Portal. You can see the linked properties there, and then you can obviously make a deal probably on the other price. So many people bought two lots, 10 lots. Like we've done a 27 package of lots, right? Because a lot of times they don't just buy one.

They buy them with their brother, their family, whatever. And they just have all these packages of lots. And most people don't just own one lot. What is the biggest deal you guys have ever done? We've done two over 200 profit. We've done one that was a 191,191. We've done 180. We've done a 165.

We've done 110. 90, 85. Yeah. Yeah. We have someone that we are working with. now that's doing he's deciding on if it's going to be for it's a 22 package of lots in Arizona it's either going to be four hundred sixty eight thousand dollars on a two-year note or three hundred thirty thousand dollars and thirty days so he's been on his

decision right now profit no none of his own yeah he was texting him that yes for a contract but there's a lot of people think because this land it's small like there are very very big deal opportunities with yeah and that's the thing that I find interesting and you probably will too because a lot of people think because it's land like he said that it's going to be smaller spreads or that it's going to be cheaper. But keep in mind when people are wholesaling houses, they're dealing with, you know, crappier houses, properties that are with 80, 90, $100,000, you can deal with land that's worth $900,000, a million dollars. Like you said, these properties around here are with $750,000.

If you're making $750,000, that's $75,000, that's $75,000. Yeah. Yeah. And a lot of people around here, like, their heads are still stuck in these lots being worth $5.50. Right. Because they were like two years ago. Right. That's the thing. For $6.57, it's like, shoot, this guy's an idiot. Yeah, and then exactly, you just connect it to. And it's like, you're just middlemaning the transaction is essentially right. I love being a middleman. Yeah, it's the best. And it's cool.

Carson, I were talking about this the other day is like the amount of people that are being helped from this ecosystem that we're doing, right? So we're, nothing would have happened to this law otherwise. We're reaching out to them. And because this happens, right, a title company is getting paid on the front end, right? Then the builder has all the contractors that are getting paid. Then a real estate agent's getting paid. Another title company to do the sale on the back end.

We're housing all these people. And we're housing, you know what I mean? It all stems from that one transaction, right? And that's the value that we bring with this. And that's why you make a lot of money doing so, right? Because you're actually bringing so much value to society and the economy when you really look at the branches of the everyone that it actually helps to get this deal to the builder. Yeah.

So you cold call me. I own a lot. Yep. How does that call go? Hey. So it depends where it came from. Right. So if I'm just straight cold calling you on Zillow, right?

Let's say like this is what someone watching this might do, knowing nothing, but what they've seen here. How should that call sound for them? I'm the homeowner. You're the caller. Hey, Chris, is this the owner of 1,2, 3 Main Street? Awesome. I was reaching out with any chance

would you be open to selling this property if I came in at the right price? Oh, I don't know. I bought that to build on it, and I still might one day. So I don't know. What are you thinking? Awesome.

Yeah. Well, what we're going to do here is we're going to come with a full cash offer. You're going to avoid all realtor fees. You're not going to pay any closing cost, right? So what I offer you is going to be net cash to you. What I can do is, again, I'm going to be able to close two, three weeks right now

and get you a contract today at $28,000 plus all closing costs. I mean, this one just around the corner sold for 38 just a couple weeks ago. So I think I'll hold out. Awesome. So if I were to be able to do what that one sold for, is that something that you would be interested in? Yeah. I mean, if you're legit and you can close fast, you actually have cash, yeah. Okay.

So one thing I will mention here is I saw that that property actually did get listed in January, right? So that closed last week, right? So that six months that it would take to get that money. I know it said it closed at 38,000, but a lot of time with land, they're going to pay 8% to agents, and then they're going to pay about 1,500 in closing costs, right? So I know it looks like 38,000, but then you take the agent commission out and you take out the closing costs. You're really walking with 33, $34,000 here.

I'm going to be very transparent here as I work with a ton of builders in the area. I have someone ready to go on this deal. I'm not going to make a ton of money on this deal. I want to keep this tight, right? Like, I am going to make a little bit, and I'll tell you exactly where my builder's at. I have a builder that will pay $35,000 plus closing costs tomorrow, right? So what I can give you is I can give you 33-5, right? It's the same you would have got if you were the one around the corner,

but instead of six months, it'll be done in three weeks. Let's go. Right? So that's like how some of the conversations go. Like we wouldn't typically like to do a $1,500 deal. But like it's too. And the beginning, we did a couple hundred-dollar deals. We were just pumping as many deals as possible.

We didn't care how much it was. Yeah. Just for the volume, like momentum. Right, right. But like, that's essentially how a lot of the calls go. Yeah. Anything else that people should know about this business that we might not have covered? The biggest thing, if you're going to get into this and you are a beginner, until you know what to offer people, don't start doing this business because that's the one thing that makes it tough is when people will mass text offers to 10,000 people and they offer them $30,000 on a lot that's worth $20,000, you will never be able to go through with that deal.

But in that person's head, there are lots worth 30 grand for the rest of time. So when people- You ruin it for guys like you. You ruin it for everybody. Don't ruin it for me. Yeah. Yeah. So they just don't mass sit high offers, which so many people do. I've gotten that a lot.

Right. I turned down $9 million for this. Yeah. But the good thing is, is you can at least reason with the sellers and say, well, you had a conversation with that person. Did they seem like they actually had $90,000 cash to give you? And they said, well, no, they didn't seem legit. They weren't actually going to close.

It was a $20 in his money deposit. And you can talk them out of it, but it does make that conversation very harder. Right. Yeah. Okay. Well, that's good feedback. Anything else? That's pretty much it.

I mean, do your own due diligence, right? Like, don't, there's four or five states where you can't do this in, right? Like, if you're going to do texting, make sure you look into laws. If you're going to be doing legal. contracts, consult. I would just say educate yourself first before jumping into it and then the world is your oyster, right? You can jump in full force, make as many calls as possible, make as many offers as possible, but make sure you know what to offer, make sure you're in a good market, make sure you have a builder ready to go, make sure you have the proper contracts,

and then you're off to the races. Right. Well, if people want more help or to learn more, where can they find you guys? They can go on carson and jackson.com. So www.carsonandjackson.com. And we have free communities. We teach people how to do this because we have a lot of other incentives at this point where we now build houses and we have our software. So we have a lot of incentives for other people to be successful in this industry. So yeah, you can find us on Carson &Jackson.com. Awesome. Thanks, guys.

Yeah. Appreciate it. Thank you. Hey, guys. If you're still listening to this, it's probably because you haven't had a chance to take your AirPods out. You're still mulling the lawn. You're still driving. What have you.

If you're still here with me, I would really, really love and appreciate a five-star review. on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcast. It would mean a lot. If you want to go the extra mile, share this episode with a friend that might have an interest in starting a business. It would mean a ton. Hope you have the best day of your life today.