The Koerner Office - Business Ideas and Deep Dives with Chris Koerner - AI Is Replacing Content Creators (Here’s How to Profit) w/ Sam | Ep. #172

Episode Date: May 21, 2025

Check out my newsletter at TKOPOD.com and join my new community at TKOwners.com.I sat down with Sam Thompson again and we talked about some crazy ways people are making money with AI voice cloning, plus how he's building a full AI ad pipeline that actually converts. We also got into the weird world of viral AI videos showing up online and whether billboards are better than Facebook ads for growing a podcast. If you're into automation, ads, or just want smarter ways to scale, this one's for you.You can find Sam on X/Twitter (https://x.com/ImSamThompson) and check out what he’s building at https://www.unlimitedcontent.com/Timestamps below. Enjoy!---Watch this on YouTube instead here: tkopod.co/p-ytAsk me a question on or off the show here: http://tkopod.co/p-askLearn more about me: http://tkopod.co/p-cjkLearn about my company: http://tkopod.co/p-cofFollow me on Twitter here: http://tkopod.co/p-xFree weekly business ideas newsletter: http://tkopod.co/p-nlShare this podcast: http://tkopod.co/p-allScrape small business data: http://tkopod.co/p-os---00:00 Monetizing AI Voice Cloning03:04 The Future of Content Creation05:52 AI in Advertising: The New Frontier09:11 Testing AI-Generated Ads12:06 Billboard Marketing vs. Facebook Ads15:02 Understanding Metrics in Marketing17:56 The Role of AI in E-commerce20:44 The Impact of AI on Content Consumption23:55 Exploring New Marketing Strategies26:50 The Future of AI in Business

Did you know that people are making money with 11 labs pretty passively? I have zero doubt. Tell me about it. I have videos right now that are indistinguishable from human. You might as well monetize it. Facebook is probably paying them six figures. I need an AI army of faces that I trust to like actually go and say exactly what I need them to say when I need them to say it so I can go make these ads. Generating leads without my face or without a real human needing to shoot content.

It's a no-brainer. Listen. get rich. We all want silver bullet. Yeah, everyone wants to get rich, dude. Let's get rich together. Welcome to the Kerner office. I'm back with Sam today, my good friend. He's been on about 12 or 15 times. And we caught up today about this hummingbird nectar e-commerce business that he launched in public. He's got thousands of dollars in sales the first few weeks. We didn't get to that to the end, but it's really, really interesting. We talked about video generation. We talked about Hey Jen, content creation, making money by having your voice cloned with 11 labs and then licensing out your voice to others.

Of course, we talked about Facebook ads, billboard marketing, comparing the two, lots of gold nuggets in here. It's going to be a two-parter. So come back a week from today for part two and share with a friend. Did you know that people are making money with 11 labs pretty passively? I have zero doubt. Tell me about it. They're like basically licensing out the rights to their voice. Sick. They're like uploading their voice and saying, this can be one of the voices that 11 labs.

users choose from, they pay out like a proportional revs share. That's awesome. Isn't that cool? Yeah. So I actually noticed when I was picking voices yesterday. I was like these feel user generated. Like they didn't all follow like the 11 labs default voice vibe. It was like it felt like actual everyday people that were like I didn't know they had a monetization model on the back. Yeah. That's awesome. Honestly, like, and you don't have to have a killer voice to do that. I spend so much time on 11 labs trying to find non-professional sounding voices. Because like I don't always want studio quality like deep, I don't want Morgan Freeman reading my ads. Like I want Sally from North Carolina in there like to run.

One of the commenters was saying like I have a really stupid voice or I have a thick accent. Like I'm an Indian American with a thick accent. It wouldn't work for me. And the original poster was like, this is the best for you. Like you have like an outlier voice. Yeah, a unique voice. Like that's people want it. It's a no brainer.

So for those listening, you want to make a few hundred bucks a month, go clone your voice on 11 labs. I might do that. I'm like, get this voice all over the internet. I want to do it, but I'm kind of scared. Like are people going to copy my content even more perfectly? True. They have my voice. True.

I would. I'd be over here with an AI version of you in two minutes, dude. to be honest it's not going to stop them do they just download all your podcast to upload them all into 11 labs and clone your voice anyways you might just make a few hundred bucks right yeah you know what i mean that's the frustrating thing about that guy on instagram that copies me is i can't file any copyright strikes because it's a different language like the algorithm doesn't care it doesn't see it as the same thing at all yeah that's fair but if you post it first in that language then you can absolutely oh oh i see it

see what you're going. That's easy. Have you heard of Kling AI, K-L-I-N-G? That's the back end video engine, the 2.0 version. Most expensive takes the longest, but by far the best. You can get similar results from 1.6, but you have to be way better at prompting. Versus 2.0, you can just like let it ride, dude. It's so nice.

Okay. So like I still want to get to hummingbirds, but there's like three things I want to talk about before that. That's fine. Dude, it's fine. It's all about YouTube retention, baby. It's cool. We're going to talk about hummingbirds to be in.

Everyone's dying to hear about him. They're like, dude, what are they saying, dude? It's the weakest retention hack ever. It's this Facebook account that posts 100% AI generated videos. They post like 5 to 10 a day. And it's, I swear it's just some click farm out of China. You could tell they're trying to look westernized. All right, Jacob and friends, this popped up in my feed.

And I'm not trying to offend any of our older. listeners, but this is boomer bait. I'm calling this boomer bait. Okay. So look at these, look at these videos. You can tell before you've been clicking that they're- I know what's good. Yep.

Millions of views. I'm going to click on this one that has, okay, here's one. Oh, jeez. The tiger guy hit in the face by the chainsaw like four times. But it's totally fine. Oh my gosh. Like, okay, it's AI, right?

It is AI, but like, it's so really. realistic is it or am i just there's another one oh he's got one with the snow leper which underneath the log dude right here yeah yeah yeah too oh that one too oh this one has blood on its mouth too that guy looks real his movements look real like this right here this looks 100% real to me i know it does and then there's the one that that popped up in my feed it's always babies there's always a baby in danger because they know that no one's going to swipe look at this look at all these tree on animal videos.

The tree on animal videos work, dude. They're in. Tree on lion. Helicopter picking up giant turtle. Oh my gosh. Okay. Here we go. This is a baby floating in the water in a flood and a German shepherd is in a car pulling

the baby up out of the water. Okay. So here's how this works. I make you free videos. I actually know what I'm talking about. I have no greasy sales pitch at the end. And if you implement what I talk about, you'll make a lot more money and have a better life. And all I ask for in return is that you hit the subscribe button and maybe even the notification

bell just like that. Thank you. What do we do with it? Is this just interesting? Can this be monetized? Like these guys are monetized. Facebook is probably paying them six years. And that's what it is. It's it's it's I think that you're you're limited in your monetization. Right. Because you're just getting paid for impressions really like at the end of the day. But like that's not a bad business model. Like if you can get to the scale of content, like let it ride. Do you know how to make videos like these that are this long? Because. Yeah, you just you put multiple scenes.

Yeah, scenes together. Okay. You just keep adding on to it. Yeah. I just love that they found a format like, oh, yeah, a tiger under a tree is going to work. So let's do a lion under tree. Oh, a baby. A flood's going to work.

Let's do a baby in a house fire. You know. Yeah. It's just wild. Yeah. It works, dude. There's a bunch of people that are doing. similar like micro movies. I'm trying to get to that spot with ads as well. Yeah, it's an

interesting use case. Like these just look like they're like impression farming, right? Like, they're just trying to get as many views as humanly possible. All of these boomers are sending it to their friend like, oh my gosh, look at how real this AI looks, right? Like, yeah, the whole thing. And they're getting paid for that. And that's sick. Yeah. That's awesome. You see the comments. Oh, amazing. Wow. Thank you, dog, for saving the baby. Great work. Well done. Yeah. Seriously, someone stood by and filmed this. Oh, gosh. It's so funny, dude. So what is this cloning business? How are you cloning people? Basically, the problem that we've been running into is at scale content creation,

specifically for ads. Because like, when I'm testing ads, I want 15 variations of, hooks of headlines of all of these different pieces which gets hard when you're dealing with real human beings people are busy and it's just not on their priority list and it slows me down from being able to generate ad crews and the ones that perform the best like we use statics don't get me wrong but like the ones that perform the best generally have some degree of a video element going on and so I was like all right like I need a I need an AI army of faces that I trust to like actually go and say exactly what I need them to say when I need them to say it so I can go make these ads.

And so this week, I just decided that I'm just going to solve it. I was like, I'm just going to figure this thing out. And when you say solve it, you mean get it from good to great. Yeah. Like actually where the hit rate, because that's the issue. When you go on a Hagen out of the box and you like type in your script and whatever. your hit rate on i don't have a term for it but it's like there's like when you watch an a i generated video there's things that like show you that it's

a i generated right like there's little tell yeah like there's little pieces of it yeah that just like they don't get the inflection on on sentences right or like one sentence doesn't flow into the next in the same way because it's all this AI stuff and so it was just like unreliable and I decided that we're going to make it reliable at this point. And so we're getting pretty close. The stack is chat GPT to generate the image asset that you're going to automate. It also can do like the script writing and stuff. Like that's its own piece. But like we generate the image that we're going to use. We take that image. We pop it into Photoshop because chat GPT likes to for the for the for the YouTube crowd that can see my face chat GPT likes to give you like this much

of the frame but on on an ad creative you want to be able to layer in text and and other elements and so you go to Photoshop and use generative AI expand to fill in the gaps to create framing yeah so that you have way more space I found this other tool that does AI face swapping I could take a photo of you and put it in a chat GPT and say hey you know describe this person well enough so that you can replicate them in a photo, but they never get the face right. Like it'll get close enough. Then you go into an AI face swapping tool that actually like mimics your face directly on that image.

And it's just, it's way better. We're just talking about still images right now. Yeah. We'll get to the video part. So then you face swap. And so now you have an expanded frame with their face. of them in we've been doing a lot of like podcast style and so it's very much like them sitting in front of a microphone because all of the AI voices are studio quality and so like when you're listening

to like what is a fake it has a match selfie video and it's podcast quality audio it's a tell it's one of those tells and I'm like all we can't mess with that so it's all podcast right now I'm going to get to the spot where it's better and I can do the the other one I know how to do it I just haven't gotten it yet So when you take all of that, you go to one of our favorites, 11 labs. And what I realized is everybody's just being lazy with 11 labs because they are doing text to speech. Everyone's doing text to speech. They're typing in their prompt or copy and pacing from chat GPT and they're going text to speech, which is what causes those weird inflections and the unsmere. smooth dialogue.

And so what I'm doing is the voice cloning feature in 11 labs. I record myself saying the script. Do you have to record yourself or can you just upload like a podcast if you talk? You could upload a podcast for sure. But for something as specific as an ad where I have specific pauses and like how I want that, right? Like you want your hook to be like very emphasized. And so like when you record that,

you can control that better than an AI. Uploading the podcast and stuff is going to be the voice cloning of myself, right? And so I'll have whoever is going to be the face of each of the things, give me as much audio as possible so I can create the voice clone. But then I'll still pop in there and record what I want them to say. So then I take the voice clone, which matches my inflection. So it's voice to voice. take that output, then you put that image, the face swapped expanded image into Hey, Jen, with their new Avatar 4 model, which is.

Oh, is a big leap? Oh, it is way better. Give me a scale. If 100% is a human talking, Avatar 3, what percentage was that? What percentage of Avatar 4? I relate that very much to like hit rate, right? And so like on Avatar 3, maybe 60%, 60%. So 6 out of 10.

Avatar 4, I have videos right now that are indistinguishable from human. Okay. What are we doing? Show me. Come on. Okay. You think I can wait for this? Dude, I'm so down, bro.

I'm so down. So this is Ethan, our head of sales. Okay. At service scalers. But I'm going to show you this one. Unlimited content, writes and publishes daily SEO blog posts for your business, 100% done for you and optimized to rank. For only $399 a month, we'll handle everything from keywords to publishing so you can

grow traffic, get more leads, and build authority without lifting a finger. I don't know if I'm being too critical. It feels like it went from not opening your mouth enough to opening the mouth too much. That one, though, I've sent to people and they were like, wait, is this real? This one, and this is like we're getting there. This is the Ethan one. Are you tired of sitting by the phone waiting for leads that never come? You work hard, you deliver a great service, but if no one's calling, your business can't grow.

And referrals alone don't come up anymore. That's where we come in. And this is of a real person. Like, that's about Ethan. This is a fake human that just chat GPT came up with. I feel like Ethan's better. Is it because it's a real person? or is it just a...

I don't know. Yours get consistent. His messes up on this piece right here where it says high quality. Yeah. It's like yours, get consistent, high quality leads. It's every single week. It opens really wide. Really wide.

But it's like I actually started running these ones as ads. Okay. One of them, actually this one specifically, because I do a bunch of headline testing, right? And so I'm testing all of them. This one specifically is getting me a $10 booked calls, which is... Wow. And what's the show rate?

I launched them yesterday, so I don't know yet. But generally our show rate's been like 60% across all of the ads that are both of me and others. Crazy. And like this is 100% AI. This is a fake human being. The voice is fake. Like the video is like the whole system. I wonder if if you had something.

I can't tell if I'm staring at the mouth because that's where the tell is or if I normally do that. So yeah, the other piece on this one, which might be helping is the subtitles because it pulls your, it pulls your attention away from the mouth a little bit. I found that to work even on Avatar 3. And so like that generally helps. It's getting there. Here's my barometer. They are converting on ads, right? Like are they good enough to actually support the use case that I want to, which is generating leads without my face or.

without a real human needing to shoot content. And that answer is yes. And so like that's what's exciting to me. There's going to be more iterations of it for sure. But yeah, it's getting super close. That's exciting. Like, oh, geez, it's frightening. It's exciting.

I want to share my screen. There's like five or six guys that copy me on Instagram. Yeah, I remember you telling me about it. Yeah, one of them is like, like not good at all. One of them is. I'm going to show, let's see. I'm just going to pick one at random. Yeah. Your spot in Dubai. A lot of mini burgers in stylish little boxes with different sauces. It's convenient, delicious, and visually striking. This idea can easily be implemented in existing food businesses, cafes, delivery services, food trucks, or food court stalls. What do you think? Is that obvious to

you? Yeah. I think the other piece of it though is like we stare at AI generate content all day trying to. And so we pay attention to it. But I don't think obviously like it's working. Sure. You can nitpick it all we want. And like, yeah, it will always continue to get better. But like if people are liking it and commenting on it as if it's real, then I think it's possible. Dude.

This freaking guy right here. He takes. I'm just going to show you. You know what? Do it. Hold on one second. Let me show you this. I go here.

Let me show you this. There it is. All right. you spend half a million bucks on an ugly house that looks like this when you can spend half a million bucks on a 3D printer that prints houses that look like this and then build all your neighbor's houses as well the future belongs to the owners all right so there's that and then this dude he's in canada but he speaks in hindi he takes 100% of my videos translates them verbatim to hindi changes not a word and recycles all of them wow that's sick I hate it so much. Well, then you need to go launch. So you can do that in 11 labs, the overdub. You should just launch.

So Mr. Beast does that. That's where I'm going with this. Just to wrap it up. There's this guy that's copying me in Hindi, and I'm going to beat him to the bunch and publish everything in Hindi before he can't. Yeah, using 11 labs. I'm going to be big in Delhi, dude. That's going to be my next t-shirt.

It's going to say the current office, big in Hiderabed. Big in Hyderabad. It's like that, you know, that meme of the guy standing in, like, the corner of the room. And he's like, none of these people know that I'm big on Twitter. It's like none of these people know I'm famous in Hindi, dude. I felt like that in Nashville. We went to Nashville as a family. And this guy in a random boot shop was like, oh, my gosh, I follow you on Instagram.

And I was like, super embarrassed but flattered at the same time. And then for the rest of the trip, I was like, you guys don't even know. This guy recognized me in a boot shop, whatever. If you had any idea. That's so funny, dude. The whole dream is to use this to just more video ads at scale. Yeah, yeah. And I think there'll be a world where I'm using it specifically for the Facebook ads use case.

Right. I think that there's a world where I can go and get to like AI influencer level in a very real way. I think a lot of people talk about it. I'm, dude, I'm saying like I've been. deep this week in like 15 different discords with all these nerds using all these different tools to achieve all sorts of stuff. I mean, there's there's even a few like I know we want to talk ecom a little bit. I'm getting there on UGC creatives as well. User generated content. Yeah, for physical products. I'm getting there. And so very similar flow, but using a different tool.

So video is cool, but you know what's better? Long form audio via podcast and my newsletter. TKOPod.com. Go there to subscribe for free to my newsletter. It's one email a week, very tactical. And then go to my audio podcast, three episodes a week, stuff like this. You're going to love it. All free.

No sleazy sales bitch. TKO pod.com. Did you see what icon, the company icon that launched? They're all over Twitter. icon.com. Yeah. What do you think about that? So for those listening, icon.com is this new startup.

They raised $24 million. They spent half of it on the domain name, icon.com. Half of people say their landing pages ugly and terrible and poorly optimized. The other half people say it's genius. The point of the matter is people are talking about them. Anyway, what ICON does is they're just putting AI in the meta ads library. So you basically let AI run all of your ad campaigns. So you can A, B, test thousands of times.

You can iterate the moment that it sees something that needs to be iterated. What do you think about all this? It's very interesting. I mean, obviously, like with creative OS, like I'm in that world. I haven't played with them as much lately just because I've been trying to figure out like more of the back end. It to me comes down to hit rate again, right? Like that, like when I think about AI generated content, that is the metric that I'm paying attention to. It's like you create 10 versions of something.

What percentage of them is good enough where like you trust that that output on. a consistent basis is going to work. A lot of the out-of-the-box tools, there's a bunch of them. Like, I think make-UGC.aI, there's like a handful of people that are stepping into this space and trying to move it. And I think that the hit rate is the piece that causes pause for me on a bunch of those out-of-the-box tools, which is why I've stayed away from them and gone to trying to build my own. I think that I need more control over it to limit the F-ups. But for people that aren't as

technical or just like want to move faster and are okay with spending the money for 10 videos, knowing only two of them are going to be good and knowing that you're getting charged a premium on all the models that they're using. All 90% of, you know, these tools are using the same video generation models on the back. And so for me, I just kind of decided to go straight to the source. And I was like, I just trust it direct, which is the tool that I've actually been using more is called Flora Fana AI. Oh. Yeah, very interesting. More control. Really like what they're doing following a very similar flow that what I was doing for the podcast clips. Let me show you one more thing. So did I tell you my, my billboard test to grow the podcast in Houston?

So I spent like all morning trying to see if that has actually been working or not because it's been one month to the day that my billboard has been there. And so I'm going to share my screen and I'm going to show you these numbers. And I want you to break it down for me. So all right. Okay. So what you're looking at here is basically my last 30 episodes, not on a per day basis, but on a per episode basis. So episode 140, 141, yada, yada. The blue line, this is basically when the billboard started.

Okay. Now, these yellow rows is when I was running Facebook ads with pictures of 30 different variations of the billboard to find the winning one in the same Houston area to people that did not follow me. Because the people that drive by aren't going to follow me, right? Right. And so here's what's very interesting about this. This number right here in column I. This is the percentage of people in the Houston area, the greater Houston area, the greater Houston. an area that listen to my podcast.

Before any Facebook ads, before anything, it was consistently one and a half percent. Right. While I was running Facebook ads, it was about two and a half percent. Yeah. Okay. But here's the kicker. I only ran ads for two days, the 27th, which was like right here and the 28th. And so most of the downloads came after those two days because people subscribe, but then

they started listening and then saw the next ones. Yeah. Right. And so here's the thing. I spent 200. $160 a day for two days to get these downloads. So basically I increased my downloads. These are the raw numbers.

An average of 74 per episode. I was going to say you almost doubled. Not quite, but. Yeah. Oh, average was 74. I got you. I mean, that 3.7 was if you take out the outlier on 3.7. Yep.

So call it like 50% growth in the Houston area by spending $250. a day. Yeah. Okay. Now for the billboard in the Houston, it's just one billboard in like kind of rural outskirts of Houston, but it gets 20,000 cars driving by a day. My averages. Now granted, my podcast as a whole has grown 30% and my podcast in the area have grown 60%.

So basically I can double the growth rate. Double the growth rate. And so here I'm spending $20 a day for the billboard and getting almost as many new downloads. That's sick. So on one hand, like a lot of the people on Twitter when I posted about this were like, dude, just just use Facebook ads. And it's like people don't use Facebook ads or grow podcasts. Either that's because no one's ever tried, which I doubt it, or because they don't work. And so I used them.

Like I had a link to the podcast. So I wasn't just getting data for the billboard, but I was leading people to the podcast. And it worked, but it worked 10x worse than the billboard does. Right. What do you think about that? Break it down for me. Yeah, I vibe on it. I think the big piece on it like on the, even the comment where like Facebook ads don't work for growing podcasts.

I think that's more of like a cash conversion cycle issue for most podcast creators than it is a like it doesn't work. I hear that all the time. People love to say Facebook ads don't work. And it's like no, no, like your cash conversion cycle on that media spend is actually what's making it not work. You can't afford to have a thousand dollars a day of cash sitting out there for 30 days. since you don't have direct monetization on that subscriber,

like you're paying like KAC to LTV payback period game. Two, I think that that's awesome. The most interesting to me is like, okay, how do you scale that? How do you identify where those billboards need to be? Have you ever looked at blip billboards.com? Yeah. Yep. Yeah.

Like that piece of it. Like a day or like six minutes for every hour. Yeah. It's all the digital billboards. I haven't had a use case for it. But it's one of those like, you know me. I'm a big fan of obviously Facebook ads, but like non-traditional marketing. Yeah, like non-traditional advertising, which like hilarious that we're saying that about

billboards. That was like historically one of the most traditional ways to advertise. I think that most people in the digital age like aren't thinking about it like that. And it again just comes down to like potentially slower growth. But also like your lift per dollar spend is significant. better because you went through all of the steps to go and do that. Here's what's really interesting is the billboard actually went live on the 14th right here. This is kind of an outlier right here, this green, but really no bump for the first month.

Then my account manager slash friend, David, he drove by it in person. He lived like an hour away. And he's like, we actually have a billboard 300 yards away, same side of the street, same street but like your billboard it appears like as you come around a corner and this other one you've got like a full front to love it for like 30 seconds as you approach it he's like this one's a little more expensive but if you know we'll move it for free and i'll keep the price the same because i think you're going to have a better experience and i was like right do have anything to lose he's like not really like this is objectively a better billboard yeah i was like okay so on the 21st right here

is when he is when they switch to that one and then look at that it can so for those just listening like It went from the ratio, which higher is better in this case, went from 65% to 95% to 120% after moving at 300 yards down the road. Same side of the road. Do you think that that tapers off in terms of performance? And I think it depends on placement, right? Like there's a nuance there of like, you said 20,000 cars a day. Sick. What percentage of those cars are the same cars?

Because when I think about it from a Facebook ads perspective, right, just because there's like very quantifiable metrics across Facebook ads. Your repeat rate, right? Yeah, frequency, right? Like, okay, cool. Does that taper off over time where you kind of max out that audience? If it, let's just say that it's like a major commuting highway with 20,000 cars going. Do you only spend that money for three months? that's how long my contract is.

It's funny you would say three months. Yeah. So the three month piece to me, I go like you probably hit kind of your max on people that are actually going to download it. Right. Yeah. I think there's two things at play. I think with any marketing,

you would agree you need repetition. You've got to see that thing five to 20 times before you click, right? No doubt. So that works in my favor. Yep. The longer it's there, the more people are likely to click. Another thing that works in my favor is the fact.

that every day a unique person will drive by that will never drive by again, right? That will never change. Maybe it's 1% of the drivers, maybe 50%. I don't know. But then what works against me is the fact that probably 70 to 80% of those drivers are going to see that thing hundreds of times. And if they didn't click at time 10 or 20, they're never going to click. And it's wasting ad spend on them.

Which you're also dealing with finite amount of ad spend. So it's like, it's okay. It all comes back to like, what's the math of it all, right? where it's like you sat there and you were like 20,000 people, X percentage of them are probably interested in business. Cool. Three months, they probably drive by at X number of times with this conversion rate. It's a little less.

The reason I always talk about Facebook ads is because you get such quantifiable data from it to help you like make decisions. Something like that, you know, you had to go and build all these spreadsheets and do a bunch of back-end math to like work your way into that. But like the math is still the same. It's impressions. times viewers, times unique, times conversion rate, right? Like it's all the same metrics, the same stuff.

Can you see that? Yeah, that's awesome. That's the billboard. So that one out of 20 different, really all of the pictures look the same, but the phrase, and for those listening, it was get rich. That one, one, like, and I tested it a number of different ways. So it just speaks to what we all want, which is like a silver bullet. Yeah.

Everyone wants to get rich, dude. Yeah. That's why they listen to us right now. That's why we listen to each other. I know, dude. We're no different, right? No, I just want to get rich. I think the billboard accounts for like 30 extra downloads per episode.

The question is, what is that going to look like once the billboards down? How many like loyal lifetime listeners am I going to get? That's all I hear about. That's CACT LTV, like, you know, all of those pieces. It's probably a little bit more challenging to track. that with that channel. But it doesn't mean that that channel doesn't work. It's similar.

I mean, when we run ads, it's the same. Like there's downriver stuff of LTV. We close a client. What's the close rate? How long are they a client? What's their average spend per month? What's our like all of the numbers behind it all? I've just been telling people a lot more.

Like entrepreneurship is two things to build like a very solid business. You have to have a really good understanding of people. Like you have to be super. super empathetic both to like your customers, your employees, right? Like your vendors. Like you need to understand people really well.

And you have to understand math. Tracking metrics, tracking the right metrics, understanding what levers you can pull to create results. Like it's been the thing that I've been super focused on this year is like, all right, this is a math. Like business is a math equation at the end of the day.

Like how do we get the equation to work the way? we need it to. It'll be interesting on that to see like how many loyal people come out of it for what price point, how you monetize them on an average of like was that ROI positives at the end of the day. Not to mention, I've noticed this too. Like you get because of the media side, you get secondary ROI from doing that because your tweet about doing that also attracting people on. It's true. It's a flywheel. Yeah. And so, it's like for some people, I think it can happen very much in a vacuum. But like, I've noticed that, like even with the community. Like me tweeting about hummingbirds like has caused people to join the

community, which I'm monetizing. And so it's like, even though hummingbirds isn't necessarily like super profitable, I'm still picking up secondary benefit on the other side. And so it's like, it's interesting when you play that game, especially with the media piece of like the personal brand is like just do interesting things because you'll get the secondary benefit, even if the thing independently isn't profitable. Yeah, agreed. All right. What'd you think? Come back a week from today for part two conversation with Sam, and we'll see you next time.