The Koerner Office - Business Ideas and Deep Dives with Chris Koerner - Shannon returns! More high ticket flipping and deal making tips. Part 2 of 2. Ep. #041

Episode Date: July 19, 2024

You remember Shannon from 1 week ago, right? From episode 38? He's back! You can find Shannon here: https://tkopod.co/shannon Enjoy!---Watch this on YouTube instead here: tkopod.co/p-ytAsk me a question on or off the show here: tkopod.co/p-askLearn more about me: tkopod.co/p-cjkLearn about my company: tkopod.co/p-cofFollow me on Twitter here: tkopod.co/p-xFree weekly business ideas newsletter: tkopod.co/p-nlShare this podcast: tkopod.co/p-allScrape small business data: tkopod.co/p-os---00:37 Meet Shannon: Flipping Items and Entrepreneurial Insecurities00:59 Airbnb Insights and Unique Property Investments02:23 Unlocking Entrepreneurial Potential03:35 The Power of Small Wins and Revenue Stacking04:22 The Journey of Writing and Selling Books07:49 Exploring Facebook Marketplace Opportunities11:15 Storage Auctions and Unconventional Deals13:47 The Watch Business and High-Ticket Flips17:42 Leveraging Asymmetric Information for Business22:31 The Power of Reverse Storytelling23:13 Starting the Bucky's Business23:32 A Memorable Airport Adventure24:39 The River Property Deal26:05 Support from My Wife32:16 Overcoming Insecurities36:28 Connecting with People42:18 Final Thoughts and Where to Find Shannon

I run a trailer search every morning and it's like, oh, wow, like significantly less people are responding to me or significantly more people are saying that it already sold. Sounds like it's like there's more demand than supply here. There's room for me in this market, right? Or maybe you find the opposite. This is saturated. I'm going to look at appliances. I'm going to look at furniture.

I'm going to look at other big things that cause you to sweat in the 103 degree heat that most people don't want to do or most people don't have $5,000 to buy a trailer. They're trying to flip $500 things. I think there's a massive opportunity to do that. Okay, as promised, this is Shannon. This is the second part of our episode. On this one, we talk more specifically about how to flip items. And we talk about the insecurities that we do with as entrepreneurs.

And we talk about our wives and how supportive they are and basically structures that we have set up between us and our wives that help things go a little smoother. So enjoy this episode with Shannon and let me know if I should have him on again. I think you're on to something before you even really knew it with data and buying a six-bedroom house because I was looking at buying an Airbnb years ago. And I got on AirDNA and I did all the research. And we put our home that I'm sitting in right now on Airbnb when we had to move. And it's five-bedroom. And I learned that like, man, Airbnb, a lot of these short-term rental properties are getting crushed.

But the ones that are huge do really, really well because you can split that cost up amongst six families. Right. I'm sure that's what you've learned. Yeah, yeah, definitely. And or unique places where we did a 1031 exchange from that other river property into a new river property because I want to be on the water. And it's like, okay, now you've got a five acre place with two houses and basically your own private river that runs right through it that no one else can access. And so that's the difference, a unique part that people will rent and versus paying, you know, or just renting some average three bit or two, you know, two bath type. place. So what makes you different is what makes you wealthy. And to your point earlier,

it's harder when you're younger because you're taught that to go with everybody else and the crowd mentality and this is how you go. You get a good job and everything. But as you get older, you get more comfortable being different and leaning into it. It becomes a superpower. Yeah. Before I hit record, you were saying like, people just need to learn how to make a thousand a month, right? Do you think that is the big unlock to like rewiring your brain to seeing opportunity and everything? Or do you think even if some people do that, they're just like, meh, I prefer a job.

Because I'm like you. Like you said you see good deals and you're not really going to buy it. So you send it to all your friends. Like I have this toxic trait, you could say, where I have these W2 friends that I love them and I look up to them. And I just know that they're killers. Like I know they're in the top 5% at their. at their workplace. And like, I just want them to own a business. It's like this weird thing. And I'm just,

because I see their potential. And they don't really see it in themselves. And I understand that it's not for everyone. And I get all that. But I just know if they were to taste it. They would love it. And so I have this mental list of like five good friends that I just want to own a business. And so we'll have lunch. And I'm like, dude, I just came across the thing. And like, I can't do it because of X, Y or Z. But like, here's why you should do it. And yeah. And I can see in their eyes. Like, it's just not resonating. No, it just kind of plays over. Yeah, like it's a different, it's a different mentality.

I do think the thousand is just an easy round number. How would you do it? How would you make an extra hundred bucks, a thousand bucks, whatever it is? That's the big chasm that people, I think, struggle with. But if, and that's why I like starting with lower numbers because it's more approachable. it's not as sexy, but, you know, I'm a big believer in the revenue stack. And like we were talking about earlier, like our podcast, I've done that podcast for 10 years. Does it make money?

Absolutely. Does it make a ton of money? No. But it just adds up for a long time. It helped pay for my kid's school. It's bought me trucks. It's sent us on vacations all over the place. But it's a great rubric, but it's still a small number.

You just have to see it happen all of a sudden. Like, I never believed anybody would buy my book. And so I hired a coach. I spent like $3,500 and I hired this woman, which is terrific. And she wrote, she had written 30 books all around this same subject of like housewife, women at home, exercising at different stages of their life. It was great, really smart. And she's like, yeah, you know, I wrote these 30 books.

And she's like, some months, I make $1,000 per book. And she had her royalty. She showed us. It's like, oh, it's like 30 grand. So she didn't go straight these. She wrote these, like as herself. She wrote them. But they were like 200 pages.

It was pretty small. And well, once she had one that did okay, then she's like, let me tweak it. Let me do one for women that just had a baby. So she has a similar content, different demographic. Let me do for one that women over 50. And so she just kept expanding that niche. And she's like, you know, in some months, maybe I only make, you know, $5,000 on those 30 books. But she had it.

It clicked. And the same for me. Like when I published the first book and I started talking about, I had no audience. I didn't even know, you know, nothing. And I talked about, I had a couple hundred people that followed. But what I did with the book is now it sounds much smarter, but it was just not. I wrote the digital version. And I published that.

And that was cool, a Kindle and it sold. But then somebody at Amazon, a rep emailed me said, hey, you really should make a printed version. I was like, people still buy this? She said, yeah. So I converted it to a printed. But what happened was all my images were set for a digital version. They weren't high-res. And I didn't want to go through the whole book and change them.

So on the first page, I said, hey, if you're buying this printed and the images don't turn out, I'm an entrepreneur. I'm not a book author. So here's my email address. Just email me and I'll send you the digital version for free. And so. Then you get their email. Of course. And I didn't know this at the time.

You know what you're doing. Yeah, I tell that story. And people are like, brilliant. You know, it's like, well, you know, I really didn't know. But okay, I'll take it. So then printed version sold 10 times more than the digital version. I was shocked. And you can kind of tweet.

So it is that first little thing. Can you make it, you know, X sent me a message to say, hey, you qualify for subscribers now, right? People to pay you for your content. And I'm like, no, nobody's going to pay me. Okay. But go ahead. I'll turn it on. And so now I have seven people that pay five bucks a month on X for my.

stuff. And I posted about it. I was like, it's amazing. And I was like, well, I now I feel compelled to add some value to these people beyond what I normally do. But now I start to think, well, if I have seven, what if I had 700 that are paying 500 bucks a month? And okay, how do I just keep doing that? So I do think it's that you're building this bridge, you know, one, one board at a time. And I love how it, I like your phrasing that it does unlock different areas of your brain that you start to see opportunities. Yeah. And maybe the key is like earning that first $1,000 before you're 25 and your brain is

fully developed. Right? Because when I'm talking to my 37 year old friend, like they're already thinking like director, VP, but do. And so it's like it's almost like they don't want to hear it because like they feel very compelled to the track that they're already on. And I respect that. But if you're 25, I think that makes a lot more sense.

Let's talk about do you do much on Facebook marketplace? because as you're talking, I'm thinking like, all right, location, asymmetric opportunity, asymmetric information. I feel like there's a ton of opportunity on Facebook, like looking at no other platform, only buying and selling all within Facebook marketplace. Are you doing anything there at all? No, no, I don't do anything. But I agree with you.

If I was just getting into the auction space and I was buying like Costco auctions, I wrote a guide about this because every time I post about Costco, my account goes nuts, buying liquidations. People don't know that they sell their excess products and stuff. And if I was doing it now, I would buy and I would repalotize and I would sell the pallets to other resellers on Facebook marketplace. And I would go to my local swap meet and I'd walk around and I'd have my card and I'd say, hey, you want to buy pallets? I'm your guy. I'm going to go spend, I'm going to buy the truckloads so you don't have to because most people don't know how to manage that and or they don't have to.

have the capital to do it. So it's like, well, yeah, I'll buy a truckload of stuff for $60,000 and I'll sell $1,000 pallets or something like that. I think that's great because, and I think Facebook marketplace is amazing to do that. And I don't know, I don't, I can't say that there are not others doing it, but I'll bet you if the opportunity is ripe because you start, there's always people looking at to buy and resell and stuff. And I think it'd be interesting way to tap into it. Yeah, as we're talking about this, I'm thinking like, all right, how could I use Facebook marketplace to make money? So I love the idea back to your location example of finding like sister cities. So let's just say Dallas and Houston, even though they're probably way too big for what I'm about to say.

They're sister cities, right? Similar demographic, similar unemployment rate, similar everything. Same state, right, all that. So let's say I wanted to flip trailers. I would go to let's say I'm in Dallas. So let's say I'm going to do all my research in Houston to get a baseline. And I'm going to see, all right, every day I'm going to log in a Facebook marketplace. How many trailers were listed for sale yesterday?

I'm going to message all of them. How many of them have already sold? How many of them are not sold? How many of them are not responding? Put all that in a Google sheet. Let's find another sister city. Let's go to San Antonio. Do the same thing.

All right. What is a normal baseline of trailers selling in a sister city? And then I started doing the research in Dallas. And I, you know, I run a trailer search every morning. And it's like, oh, wow, like significantly less people are responding to me or significantly more people are saying that it already sold. Sounds like it's like there's more demand than supply here. There's room for me in this market, right? Or maybe you find the opposite.

This is saturated. I'm going to look at appliances. I'm going to look at furniture. I'm going to look at other big things that cause you to sweat in the 103 degree heat that most people don't want to do. Or most people don't have $5,000 to buy a trailer. They're trying to flip $500 things. I think there's a massive opportunity to do that. The research in comparable markets and then just copy and paste in your market.

Yeah, I agree. We're surrounded by opportunities. The key is a mindset. I know it sounds kind of cliche or cheesy, but it is that. Willing to put your time in to spend a little bit of money and then looking at these opportunities in maybe a different way, well, certainly a different way than other people would. That's huge. When I was in college, I was buying storage auctions.

This was way before storage wars. And they'd roll the door up and you could kind of look in. And one of the best deals I ever bought, there was like a woodworking business or something. And excuse me. And as I was sitting there, I was listening to people talk about, oh, you know, that saw is worth 500 bucks. And these tools are worth, you know, that's like $1,000. And so I sat there. And then the bidding started.

Nobody was bidding. It was a lot of stuff. And I was just, and it was my girlfriend at the time who's now my wife. I said, wife, I don't get it. I was like, well, okay, I'll bid $100 or whatever. And okay, then a couple people got going. And I bought the whole storage locker for like $500. And then I immediately was like, I don't think I had $500 at the time.

So I walked over to the guy that wanted to buy that saw for, you know, $3,400 bucks. He said, do you want to buy that saw? And he's like, yeah. And so he gave me the cash right then. And so before that we were even done, I had made money on the stupid thing. But because I was just delusional enough to think that I could fit all this stuff in my truck. And I had to make a bunch of trips.

It was a pain in the butt. It was sweating. And I didn't know what I was going to do. But that deal turned out amazing for a college kid, you know. Yeah. I don't know what I mean. But thousands of dollars. So don't take for granted that everyone's figured things out because they haven't.

Because most people ignore things. When I post about those stupid trailers, I get ripped apart in the comments about, Shannon, this will never, they're, they're so beat up, yada, yeah, of course. There's a reason why they're there. But that's the problem to solve. How do you solve that problem? And that's the fun part. Yeah, I like saying, only listen to the haters if they know more about that industry than you.

Otherwise, just let it be a chip on your shoulder. Right. So if you have that, quote, hater show up in your comments like, dude, okay, first of all, I assisted in the process of these FEMA trailers. They have significant black mold issues. The remediation costs per unit is $7,000. You got it. It's like, okay, you know what? Yeah.

That's really good information. You just save me. Thank you. But if it's like, oh, these would never sell like, yes. Shut up. Like, give me your evidence. Well, I love the phrase, you know, haters are just fans in denial. Yeah.

And they fuel your stuff. They fuel you as well. Excess is the best revenge and talking about this stuff. I love it because it's some cookie idea that you followed down the rabbit hole. And you're like, well, it's like the watch business. I don't know anything about watches. But I know about deals. And I have a good reputation.

And one day I got a call. I was like, hey, we lost this buyer. And this is a sensitive product for us. We're not this massive mega corp. They were really worried that these return product were going to wind up back at their stores. People would buy it and take it back and try to get a full refund or something like that. And so they wanted it handled a certain way. And it was problematic, but I was like, I looked at the spreadsheet.

I was like, all right, let's figure it out because I just felt there was an opportunity. And then you have to go to New York and you have to walk the jewelry district. And you have to, you're just like, meeting all these people that are looking at you like, oh, this is a scam, whatever is. And you have to make a bunch of phone calls until I finally met a couple of Russian guys that they looked at me and like, Well, let's fly out. They flew out to me to see this product. And I was like, here it is.

I've already spent a bunch of money on this. And I don't know what to do with it. I don't want to sell it. We tried to sell some consumer, but it's a tough business. And so, I mean, we were selling watches that some of them that would have all altimeters in them, you know? And people would get it, buy it, be happy. But then they'd go on a plane flight and they'd come back, say, hey, the altimeter's off. I want to return it.

And it's like, no, you went up 35,000 feet. Yeah, I don't know how to test for this. You know, so it was a very difficult problem to test or product to test for. But once I met this whole other guy, I figured, you know what? I'll let them make money on me. I just will take a very small percentage to manage logistics and finances and the relationship. And it's been an amazing business. And like I said, I posted on X, it's an $8 million side hustle.

And I've done a lot more than that. But we did it on a handshake. And I'm never, if I hadn't taken. that first back when I was in my 20s to figure out how I could do it and see that it worked and that reality is truly flexible, I never would have taken that $8 million deal because I'd be like, oh, what could go wrong? Like you said, what if it's the package gets lost or what ifs are just, you got to get rid of that stuff and get past it. Well, I'm glad you brought up the watch business because I think that's another big opportunity in just,

selling things is finding the happy medium between ticket size and like volume of buyers, right? Because if you sell T-shirts, there's 100 million buyers out there. But you got to sell 100 million T-shirts. Whereas if you sell golf carts, right, you could make $2,000 per golf cart, but there's only so many golf cart buyers. And so I also like the idea of doing what you did with the watches and doing the research to find that sweet spot.

It's like, okay, every sale will net me four figures. and there's actually, this actually has a bigger market than I thought. That's what we did with Bitcoin miners. We were selling these $15,000 miners, but because of the market conditions at the time, there was a lot more demand than supply, right? Yeah. So I like the idea of starting with $1,000, working your way up,

and then finding the higher ticket items, because once again, there's much less buyers at the higher ticket sizes, and then flipping those things with the exact same principles that you learned at the lower ticket size. It's training your brain. You know, one of the biggest iPhone deals I ever did that was like 95,000 iPhones. And it was just massive. And the logistics and the finance and the management and the security and finding buyers and dealing with, I mean, it's overwhelming if you really sit and try to think about it all.

But because I've done it for 20 years, it was just another deal. And when I was in college, there was a thing I went to Cal Poly in San Luis Obispo. And every Thursday, there would be this like, it was called the Easy Ad. I don't know. Some people, you may have one called the Penny Saver. Penny Saver. Yeah. Penny Saver.

Similar kind of people would put just text ads in there. This was pre-web, you know. And so every Thursday, they'd come out. Then they'd get distributed all over the county. I was living with a couple of guys that were into cars and trucks. And I said, well, I got a little bit of money. maybe we can buy and flip some trucks. And one guy had a painting set up.

So it was like, well, we could buy these trucks, paint them real quick and resell them. It's like, well, what's the angle? Well, it turned out the angle was the Easy ad got put in their office lobby a few hours before they went out everywhere else. And so we would just go sit in the Easy ad office Thursday at 9 a.m. Me and two other guys. We just hang out. And then they'd come out. They'd drop a big stack.

And we'd be like, oh, this person, that's a, that's a, that's a, deal. This person underpriced this. And then we get on the phone and we're like, hey, can we come over right now? We'll be there right now. Right now. We show up. You have cash. We would buy the truck. We would buy maybe one or two a week, but we never registered him in our name. It was like flip. We never, it was lots of risk, but you're young. It's stupid, stupid risk. I wouldn't do it now. But the mindset is where's the unfair advantage? The unfair advantage was we just figured out that they them there early just by randomly going, hey, what time do they come out? And they were like, well, most places get them at two o'clock. But if you come to our lobby, we bring them out usually

about 10 or 11. Yeah. I did that business for all during school. So your brain is really a muscle. We're moist robots. So you're that learning and learning. And I encourage you to do it as young as you can. But if you're older, you still can do it. Yeah. But you have, you should start small and do things that are not crazy until you build this foundation of stuff. And what's interesting about that example, which I freaking love. And like almost every business I've started, people ask me like, could you still do that today? Almost every time it's, yeah, actually.

Like you could still do that today. Like the easy at it, you might not be able to do that, but like I could go to chat GPT and tell them that story and say, what are 10 different examples of ways that I could use asymmetric information that are different than this? Like you could, I mean, you could pay. a VA $3 an hour to sit on Facebook marketplace all day and just hit refresh and say every time you see a trailer that's a box trailer in this zip code message them this. I will be there in 10 minutes. You could still do all these principles just in different ways or even the same ways.

Absolutely. There's guys that do the same concept with jewelry on Craigslist. And it's all automated and it's they it picks up these certain terms of people selling. stuff and it goes up and it does the whole thing. And they're like, hey, we'll send you a label. They email prepaid labels like instantly to these people to get them to send their gold to them. So I say, we're surrounded by opportunity. If you kind of look at it sideways. Yeah. You've got to be curious. Yeah. And you cannot be a consumer your entire life. You just can't. And you cannot pay retail. That's another training. You just kind of fine. And sometimes, yeah, it's more work. Like I wanted to shed for this river property.

I was like, oh, I go to Costco. It's like, yeah, that's, that shed's perfect, but it's $1,500. But I'm just like, I just can't do it. I can't pay $1,500. So I get in the, on the Costco auction site. And I just look, I look every day. It's part of my routine. And I, for big stuff, I only look that's near me, California and everything. So I look, sure enough, here comes an auction with two brand new sheds. I was like, I'm going to buy that. And I said, I can use both sheds or I'll sell one. And I bought both sheds for $1,500. Instead of buying one shed for $15.

You know, so yes, was it a pain? And I live on this house on a hill in California. You can't get a semi-trial. I don't have a warehouse anymore. I got rid of it. And so I have to drive down the hill and transfer to my truck and everything. But the whole time in my head, I'm just like, I saved, you know, $1,500. And this is sweet.

And I tell this story. It's part of my story. I'm a huge fan of coming up with the story. Your brand. Yeah. Yeah. It's fine. The deals.

And so I tell the story all the time to my friends. They're sick of hearing it, I'm sure. Oh, I got this. I picked that up here. I bought this here. I bought this house here. I did that, whatever. I love it.

It feels great. And it fuels me. And the story concept, I tell people to tell the story in reverse. Think about what story you want to. tell when you're older, and I visualize it, sitting around a campfire. I love sitting around the campfire. What stories do you want to tell? And how are they cool and different and unique and people kind of sets them back like, you did what? You bought this? Wait, how did that work? And da-da-da-da.

That's fun, man. That makes you the storyteller. So if you can figure out that, that reverse storytelling concept draws you to that end result that you want. Yeah. It's like visualization or whatever, but I just, you know. Yeah, when we started the Buckees business, my partner and I, I love that business, do you. Like, let's walk into Buckees. Let's buy one of everything. And then we'll email reporters. And he's like, well, what if they sue us? I'm like, if they sue us, we'll have a good story. If we fail, we have a good story. If it succeeds, we've got a great story. Like, I always think about that.

Like the other night, I went on, I picked up my mom from the airport in Salt Lake. We had an hour to kill. So my family, my mom and my sister, we always, we went on a walker in this trail and it was like on the airport property behind this barbed wire fence but it was an actual trail and there was a sign that said it closed at 10 and we long story short we got lost and I was really afraid the gate would lock us in and like planes were flying overhead and it was hectic but like my kids were loving it I was loving it and I ended up having to sprint full speed in my crocs back to this gate because I was afraid it would lock at 10 And I got there at 10 exactly.

And I wanted to prop the gate open so they could take their time to walk back. So I got there at 10 exactly. Six minutes later, they walked back. We were all laughing, having a great time. And then we went to leave. I closed the gate. And my wife was like, hey, check the gate. See if it ever locked.

And it did. And like, really? It was dark, Salt Lake. Yeah. No one would have known we were back there. And I was like, I even said, I was like, that would have been such a good story. Oh, man. I kind of was mad that we didn't get locked in there.

It is. It's amazing. When I bought that river property that was the problem and negotiated that deal, and my wife, I bought it, she'd never seen it other than pictures. And she gave me a, here, it has to meet all these requirements before I'm on board with it. I'm like, great, no problem. But I can remember sitting outside around the campfire when we closed escrow and I said, if this deal happens the way I'm thinking it might, I will never stop telling this story. it about it. Because I was, after I walked out of this, I had a meeting with the guy from the, it's like the department of the interior that wanted this house. And he gave me so much great information, what they were willing to pay for it, the whole nine yards. But it would just take a long time for them to buy it. And I walked out and had a contractor buddy with me. And the first thing I said was, doesn't that sound like a free house to you? I just need to tie up some money for a while. The government wants to buy it. Yeah. They're telling me, I've got to buy it. And nobody who, Listen to me. Everybody's like, it's not going to happen. Even my wife who's super supportive because I've done it a bunch of times.

And now, man, I tell that story all the time. I was like, let me tell you how to go buy. Find a property that's just a nightmare that has some weird thing. And da-da-da-da. So yeah, the story thing is powerful for me. It gives me energy. It makes me feel unique and different. And like we talked earlier, as you get older, that's a superpower. That's amazing. Well, let's wrap this up with two questions. I want to ask about your wife and like, is she the type and has she always been the type to just naturally, like, trust you and go along with you? Or is she still very hesitant or did you kind of have to get her there with all these crazy ventures? Yeah. So she worked, like we lived off her W2 when we first started.

I started the business and we didn't make any money and we put all the money back into the business. And it was 10 years into this entrepreneurial journey. before I was starting a new company and a partner that I had met years before. We always talked about starting a business. And he came up, he had met my wife several times. And he said, hey, okay, I'm all in. But the one requirement is I want Renee to handle the money, you know, my wife. And I was like, I'd never thought about working with my wife before like this. But, you know, we had this long discussion about it. She was going to be in charge of a completely different area. We wouldn't be interacting as like day to day. And she had seen enough success.

She was behind me. Now, before she started working, like I've made a ton of mistakes, right? I mean, I lost a million. I made a decision one day that cost me a million dollars. I got sued and you're talking about getting sued and all that kind of stuff. I got involved with the group of folks that it was just stupid. If you want to read it, just go on X, just Shannon Jean and you can read. I posted about it. And I had to go home. and tell my wife that I just lost a million bucks. And, you know, I remember she was because we had a little baby girl and she was giving her a bath and everything.

And she's in the bathroom. And I said this. And I can remember there were tears. But the comment she made that I just will never forget was she was like, all right, well, you better figure out how to pay that million bucks back. It wasn't screaming, yelling, you, this or that. So she's always been in my corner. And once I did figure out how to pay that million dollars back while I was still growing these

other companies, I think we both felt pretty empowered. So yeah, she's been, I mean, there's definitely, you know, when the letter from the IRS shows up, she always comes up and goes, these make me nervous. Yeah, you know. I get a lot of letters from the IRS. Of course, you do. And we've had our, the sales tax police are worse than the IRS. And before we had our, when I was young and I didn't understand business structure as much,

We had our account seized because I was late on sales tax or this kind of stuff. So, yeah, she got eased into it as well. Right. So, yeah, but she's always been in my corner. And it takes a unique person, male or female, to be behind you. But I always had a foundation that I always, she always said, I always know you can make money. And it was hard. And sometimes she'd be like, you know, you could be successful working for somebody else too.

And I was like, oh, that sounds like such a nightmare. I'll figure this out. I'll figure this out. And so making this step to being like this crazy entrepreneur starts with the foundation of, well, I have this business that generates this much money. It gives me a check. I don't want to be involved in it anymore once it's in maintenance mode. But now I can go take another swing at the fences because I know I've got a six-figure

income right here that pays our bills and going, that kind of thing. So if you come to her today with a hairbrained idea and whether it's a big risk or not, does she ask like, all right, well, let's talk about this. Let's walk through this. Or is she just like, sounds good. Let me know how I can help. Well, like, where is she on that spectrum? She asked lots of questions.

I mean, like when I brought her at the house on the river that the government, that every house on the street had burned down in a fire and our house was close to the river. And that was, it was, every house was gone. And so I was like, this would be great. because we're going to buy this and there's going to be a bunch of brand new houses and it's going to raise the value. So she, like I said, she came up with these 10 points. She's like, okay, if you do this, if you answer this, satisfied this, can you find somebody to a housekeeper to manage it, waiting for gone because they're going to run it out, this, this and this. So she's

very savvy. She's the one that, like, I like to play craps. I'm not a huge gambler, but if I go, I'm like, oh, let's play craps. She'll come by the crafts table and she'll look at my chips and she'll just take some. And in the beginning, when we were younger, I was like, she's going to go gamble with this. She's like, it's like putting your money in savings. Exactly. She's taking the money because she's like, okay, how much? She goes, how much does you start with?

I'm like, I don't know, 500 bucks, thousand bucks. Okay, great. And then she come by like another 10 minutes later, you know, oh, it's a, and then after. And then once she's gotten my money back, that 500 bucks, thousand bucks, whatever, she'll go, hey, go crazy. Do it everywhere because you're playing with the house money, right? But she's taking that money and gone and cashed it in and put that thousand bucks back in her pocket.

So she's, I always joke like, I know how to make money. My wife's much better at building wealth and taking money off the table and saying, hey, yeah,

you could take that invested in a new business, but let's go invest a bunch of money in Tesla. Or let's build a good portfolio in the market and get some financial advice. I'd be like,

that's boring. You know, I could make us. I could make 30X with that money this year. She's like, you could. But let's start

another path at the same time, which is played out remarkably well. Yeah, like you're over here trading options and she's buying bonds and it's a good balance. Yes, it's a balance. I like that. Having your spouse on board, whatever system works for you, and with my wife, I think it's the more information I can provide to her, the better. And I'm doing that right now. You know, I'm really building a business up on X and building a brand and trying to productize my knowledge. And I'm having to educate her about why it's awesome that I got 300,000 views of this post about the bat houses on the side of my house. She's like, well, that's not relevant. I'm like, it really is, you know, this kind of stuff. So it's good. It keeps us connected too, which is cool. Yeah. Okay. Last question.

So I have this like theory that basically everyone is driven by their insecurities for better or worse, right? Like someone who's homeless or they've just, they've had a really rough life. Like insecurities drive them to make bad decisions just like maybe Steve Jobs or Elon Musk. They're driven to make business decisions that build wealth because they've got data issues. Maybe their dad abandoned them. And it's an insecurity. And I feel like anyone's insecurity can drive them to do better or worse things. And the differentiator is do we have self-awareness of that insecurity? So my question to you is, what are your insecurities and like, either currently or in the past, like, what have you had to overcome? What are you, what's like in the back of your mind that kind of drives you with regards to an insecurity? I have a massive fear of

failure. Even though I failed frequently, I have fear of being seen as a failure by other people. I care what other people think. I don't, you know, it's not, it's not, we try to say that. And that's, oh, you should never care. I care. I care what my wife thinks. I care what my kids think. I what my neighbors think. I care. And I want to be perceived as successful. My insecurity, fear of failing has been the rock on my gas pedal forever. I also have a big insecurity about money in the sense that I'm super intimidated by people that have built wealth by working for other people. I've just, I don't know how they did it. And I'm just saying, wow, man, like, they may just be as interested in my crazy stories of building wealth, but I'm just like, dude,

I don't want to do it, but I don't want to wear a suit, but I'm intimidated by guys that wear suits. I don't know how to get around it. And like when I sit in a corporate conference room with people I'm trying to do a deals with, they're like a different animal to me. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm pretty good at pacing and leading with persuasion and connecting with people.

But inside, I am intimidated with these people because I'm a shorts and t-shirt guy, right? I mean, I put a collar shirt on for you today. Yeah, same. I like that. Right. So those are my insecurities and the things that caused me anxiety. But at some point, and I think it was when I was young, I learned to put those behind me to push me forward instead of having them in front of me to hold me back. And I think maybe it was because I talked about it, maybe the self-aware.

But I realized that I was not the only one that. feels this way. And a lot of young people today that talk about having anxiety, I always like, well, I have the same anxiety. Do you think I wasn't freaked out when I got up and had to, you know, I speak in front of the top 500 eBay executives? I'm totally freaked out. But I've got it, I'm managing it by, you know, pushing it, pushing it forward. So talking about those insecurities is powerful. Yeah. And I commend you for bringing that up. Thanks. Yeah. You say that about anxiety and speaking in front of people like I speak in front of people it freaks me out like when I'm done I'm glad that I did it and I even look forward to doing it while it also freaks me out and at church I

sometimes I have to ask people at church to to give a prayer from the pulpit or to speak from the pulpit and most people say yes a lot of people ghost me and some people are like I can't I just have too much anxiety yeah and I'm just like I respect that at the same time like we all do you just got to do it. It's funny because I directly contradicted myself in the same hour. Like, I don't care what people think. I care what people think. And it's like I do and I don't.

Like I care less in certain areas. But I think I care about what people think in an above average way. You know, it's like even if though it's less than it used to be, it's still probably more than average. Like even some random troll comment on a Twitter post I'll think about for the rest of the day. I totally think about it. Why do you care, Chris? Like, this guy doesn't care about you.

He doesn't even have a real profile, but it's like, I don't know. It's an insecurity and it's something I'm trying to overcome, but I think it's also good in a sense. Yeah, it can, if you use it the right way, I think it can fuel you. And I literally, like when my first employee quit when I was young, I mean, I broke down like in tears because I was like, man, this is a really big deal that this, I've lost this person and they're leaving. I can't help but feel a lot, you know, and to connect with people. And I've learned to use it as a superpower by using certain words a lot and connecting with people because it's different. And some of my suppliers, I mean, I've had people, you know, I would call every day that I'm buying from all the time. And they just be like, dude, when you call, we all get excited.

And it's like, really, that's cool, man. And then you're talking and you're uplifting them. And again, it sounds like a cliche. but when you lift the people up around you, it's amazing for your own sense of self-worth and helping to manage those, that anxiety and those insecurities that we all have. It's not an excuse. It does not make you special. It is just the way that's the human condition.

So learning to manage those insecurities, man, it can make you unstoppable. Do you think I didn't feel like an utter and complete failure? when I had to go home and tell my wife I'd lost a million dollars because I made a bad decision. I was ashamed deeply. But did you think that I didn't feel like a complete and utter badass when I finally paid it off? And even after I paid it back, it was probably five or six years before I could talk about it in a positive manner because I had this deep sense that I had failed and that I let so many people down. And by not doing this due diligence and not making poor decisions. So I don't know how to separate myself from this.

And I just don't do it. But I've tried to also, I just read the alter ego effect, the book. I forget the author's name, but you can look it up. And he talks a lot about being in the public and not taking those things personally. And he uses like the Kobe Bryant, the Black Mamba, his alter ego, Beyonce. say she's like, oh, that's not being the stage. That's Sasha Fierce, you know, this kind of stuff. And I'm just like, wow, that's great.

I'm going to do that. And so I think of myself as kind of this pirate, you know, Johnny Depp character and I'm swashbuckling, whatever. He's faking it. We're all faking it. And it helps. It helps me. Yeah. And it does.

This person doesn't know who I am. And it attracts people, I think, to your content. And I feel honored, truly, that people love to read my stuff and send me DMs and send me gifts in the mail. It's so weird. Yeah. Yeah. You know, and this kind of stuff. And yeah, it's awesome. I have it the time of my life, man. I agree. I think there's a correlation between guys like us. And it's kind of sounded like you said this. So correct me if I'm wrong. I feel like I feel deeply. Like I'm kind of above average sensitive as well. And maybe that comes from just like we put ourselves out there so much. Like all these businesses like we're just

So first of all, like one of my biggest pet peeves and fears is like being at a dinner party and someone's like, hey, Chris, tell us. And like all the eyes come on me. Like I hate that. And my wife knows it. So she won't like call me out. Even in a positive. Chris, tell him that Bucky story. And it's like, just guys, stop looking at me. Yeah. But at the same time, I go public on Twitter and I say this. And I put, I had a panic attack and I put that out there. And I just put myself out there so many times. Like I go up to bat. It's like you're being on a baseball team where the. coach is like, hey, Chris, you can go up to bad as many times as you want. Okay, how about every time? Like, I hate it when the crowd looks at me. I hate hitting a foul ball, but I'm just going to

keep going to. And it just like, you think that would harden you, but I'm also just like a big softie. Like, I don't know what it is. Yeah. I love people. I use that word love all the time because I'm just like, I really love this, you know, or I really, I love this piece of content that I read, that it resonates with me and the people that really share, because there's different ways to get attention, right, in negative attention, certain ways, you know, like a Hoover kind of guy that's and that's his model and that's great. But I don't want to do that. And I want to lift us all up. And I always say, you know, cheers to your success. It's just a heartfelt thing. I want you to succeed. I feel like when the people around me go up to, I feel better about it. And the stories,

you're right. At the same time I like telling the story, I'm very self-conscious about it. And especially like I had a conversation with the guy a couple years ago who's a billionaire, right? Just somebody in my circle of people that we know we're friends. We're at a party. Super great guy. Super successful. And I was telling the story about fishing in this cabin that I bought. And then I was talking about this and taking my dog to work.

And he was like, dude, you have such a great life. And I was just like, what? You're a billionaire. I was like, why don't you take your dog to work? He's like, man, it just doesn't work. you just that and the other thing. I'm just like, just stop. You know, go do something else and do this kind of thing. But he was on a whole other level of what he was achieving too. But maybe it's all of us don't recognize the great life we may already have, you know, and you're always thinking

of the grass is greener or the next thing. And my experience, like on X has been so positive and so the groups that I'm involved in, meeting people like you and your partner Nick and it's a whole new group of people I get to tell my stories too. Yeah. It's terrific. I love it. There's probably a correlation between people that you're intimidated by are likely intimidated by you as well, right?

It's like, oh, you're a billionaire. And he's like, do you have freedom? Yes, yes. You're like, oh, okay. You know, that's awesome. But I love talking about this stuff. I would be glad to help anybody come find me on X or listen to the business brain. Yeah, where can we find you?

Where are all the places? Yeah. And on X, it's just S-H. N-N-O-N-J-E-A-N is my X-S-T-T-T-T-T-T-E-A-N-E-N-G. Email me at Chan & Gene and listen to Business Brain. If you just Google Business Brain podcast, we have two episodes a week. I talk to a guy that I've been in business with for 20 years that we've done a lot of deals together. We just have conversations like this.

It's a lot of fun. I love talking about it. I feel really blessed. I've had all these experiences, and now that I can sit and talk for I've been talking for two hours. I mean, I could talk about this all day. Yeah, same. So fun.

Same. Yeah, please go listen to Shannon's podcast. He's a great guy. And I think I want to have you back on again, if you don't mind. Yeah, I love doing this stuff. It's fun riffing on ideas. It is. Thanks for.

It is. Thank you very much. I appreciate it. Yep.