The Kristian Harloff Show - 2023 Best and Anticipating 2024 with William Bibbiani!

Episode Date: December 30, 2023

On the Patreon, we do monthly bonus Big Thing livestreams with special guests!  For the video of this episode, check out the patreon at https://www.patreon.com/TheBigThingShow Initially a Patreon exclusive, we decided to make this conversation public!  Kristian welcomes on noted critic and former Movie Trivia Schmoedown champion, William Bibbiani!  GROWL GROWL!  Alongside PLD, they talk some of their favorites of 2023 and also discuss what they are looking forward to in 2024!

Hello, patrons. This is one of the last shows we'll be doing of 2024. Well, that's not true because it's not 2024 yet. But it's one of the last shows we're doing leading into 2024. So there you go. And what a show it's going to be. Not only you're going to get me in PLD. And you guys know, patrons know.

It always get me and PLD in the back and forth. Like Han and Chewy. And you can try to guess who's who. You heard me in the bathroom. You'd say, Chewy. Oh, what did Bibbs walk into it? Speaking of Bibbs, Bibbs is back. That's right.

The Beast, one of the best teams in Shmodown history. Bibbs, he was part of it, and he was one of the greatest champions we've ever seen. And I'm glad to have him on the show. One of the main reasons also as we were going through it, and PLD was like, let's get a guest for a big thing live for patrons. Who do you want? I said, let's get Bibbs. I haven't talked movies with Bibbs in so long. Every time I talked to Bibbs for the last three or four years, we were talking about Shmodown.

We didn't really even talk about movies. So we're going to do that. And what's so funny is normally I would have conversations to whoever I was on the panel with. And if we saw an article or review from Bibbs, I'd be like, you know, and I said this, and I said this to his face. I think he's one of the greatest critics out there right now. And I don't always agree with him. I'm usually, I was for a long time on the opposite page of Bibbs.

but I said I always respected how much he put into words of why he liked or dislike something. But I tell you, this year, I've been on the same page of Bibbs a lot for a lot of things that he said, whether he's liked the movie, dislike the movie, and his reasoning why. So we'll talk about that. And I'm sure, after saying all of that, will be on the opposite of most on our list for the year. Maybe, maybe not. Without any further ado, let's bring in both P-L-D and Bibbs. What's up, guys?

guys. Bibs is muted. Oh, no. I got good. I'm just good. How are you guys? Bips, how are you? I've talked to PLDD all the time. How are you? I'm okay. I'm okay. It's been a very long year. We moved. I just got laid off yesterday from one of my regular gigs. So it's a whole, it's a whole thing.

Two days after Christmas? A bunch of bullshit. Two days after Christmas. That's right. But you know what? Better than on Christmas. Right. They're probably waiting. It's a low bar, but it was clear. Yeah. Yeah. I'm sorry. That's okay. It's okay. It's okay. It'll figure itself out somehow.

Of course, I'm not here to bum everybody out. Well, that's how we're going to. No, we're not here. We're here to celebrate your. Compliments. Please. Yeah. I meant every word of it. P.L.D. Are there any questions or anything leading into this or no? Not yet. This is all for you. This is all of your guys. If they want to have chat, it's right, check and throw in questions anytime in late.

Yeah. Normally for Q&A is different, but this is more so like just a little extra big thing for everybody, too. And I think we just, I was editing, we did the, well, myself, Merle and Roka did the best of movies and TV where essentially what we do is we don't do like a top 10. I do that on my own. But we do like, we take this big long list and we just kind of bounce back and forth and talk about which movies we liked and, you know, whether it was like, let's say Dan's like, oh, Maestro. And all three of us talk about Maestro. So we did that today for comic book movies and TV shows, but we couldn't call it best of because there hasn't really been a lot of best of.

So we just kind of did like- In that realm, no. No, we did like year in review. So, yeah. And Bibbs, one of the things that, speaking of which that I had said, you and I have been on the same page of a lot of things is that what did you say? I was trying to quote you the day. And I stopped because I didn't want to misquote you terribly.

It was about Aquaman. You said it's not how bad it is. It's how hilariously bad it is. Like, what was it? the quote that you said because it was great oh um honestly don't know was it on twitter or was it in my review i think it was in your review he says like it's not how it's not just how bad it is it's a hilarious bad or how it how it how it succeeds at being so bad

it's like it's a really astoundingly awful motion picture it's kind of bad like you know there are movies that don't turn out good and then there are movies where you're just like what the fuck did you do this this wrong and we know some of it. We know there were a lot of reshoots. One thing that's abundantly clear is that they carved as much Amber Heard out of the movie as possible. And boy, does the movie suffer for it just because it's really obvious. There's a lot of stuff on the cutting room floor and scenes don't play right.

And that's just all really, really terrible. But like, it's just, you get the impression that at some point they gave up. Yeah. It's just like, screw it. And the last shot of that movie, I will say this right now, the very last shot of that movie, which I won't ruin for anyone I hasn't seen it yet. The post credit, the very last image of the DCEU kind of says it all. It really does. At some point, they were just like, you know what? Fuck them.

Yeah. They were done. Thank you. It's so true. It was funny, as I said, in my out of the theater reaction, I said, when I got home, I grounded my six-year-old because I found out of wrote it. It was, it was just written. It was just written so badly. It was just written. so badly. The same movie is the original.

It stepped instead of traveling around the world doing fetch quests with Amber Hurd and griping until they like each other, it's him doing that with Patrick Wilson this time. And Amber Hurd's been awkwardly cut out. And now instead of Patrick Wilson, we just get Black Manta. It's the same movie. It is just for some reason.

And I didn't love the first one by any means, but it just seemed even more dumbed down. Like, and I didn't even try to make sense of it. Like, there's just one particular scene. where the baby's like pissing in Aquaman's face and

Mara's right there cooking in the, or whatever she's doing. She's in the, she's doing laundry. That's all she's allowed to do now. She's allowed to have babies, do laundry, and sit next to his side quietly. That's her job in this movie. So she's there. Not only is she doing that.

It's like the next scene. He's toasting with his father. Here's the single parenthood. Like, what are you talking about? She was right there. Yeah. What are you talking about? It makes him look.

look like an asshole. That's what it does. It makes it look like a sexist dick. The whole thing's just a mess. So that we're on the same page there. I don't think we're on the same page on the marvels. I like it okay. I didn't like that one I felt it was was just as poorly written and it had better chemistry though than that's okay. But that chemistry, but that chemistry, the lady's chemistry was fantastic. The thing with Patrick Wilson's chemistry is that like, okay, great. So we gave Aquaman a lot of chemistry with the villain from the last movie and now at the end of the movie he's

basically forgiving him he was a genocidal maniac. He wanted to kill all of the humans. Like that's the thing and at the end he's like it's now that I'm cool with you and we spent a couple of days together I don't care. You've changed your political movie, you know? What is that where you're supposed to go? It's wild. But like in the

Marvels at the very least those are distinctly written characters they had really big chemistry together and even though overall I liked kind of the theme of the movie in terms of actually like taking heroes to task when they screw up. It's, yeah, it's rushed, it's clunky, whatever. But whenever those characters just hung out, that's what I liked.

And a lot of my favorite comics as a kid were not the Bam-Pow beat-em-ups. They were the X-Men hanging out at the mansion talking about their feelings playing baseball. Like that kind of life is really fun. Yeah, the Avengers used to do that too. There used to be whole issues of the Avengers. Who were you going to let into the club?

That was the whole issue. Well, that's what I think about Blue Beetle. Like Blue Beetle to me was the family issue. I couldn't give a shit about the superhero stuff because I've seen it. It's so paint by numbers I've seen it a million times over. Susan Saranin was forgettable as a villain, but it was the family dynamic that really worked.

But pivoting outside of the superhero and comicry genre of bibs, what are some of the movies this year that, like, did you make your top 10 yet? Can you say what? I did. I did. Well, I posted it on Twitter. And, you know, it's always subject to change a little bit,

depending on my mood. But I will be doing a podcast on my, on the critically acclaimed network. delving into it in a lot of death. But I have done my top 10. It's been a really good year. I was looking at some of the films that didn't make my top 10. And I was like, those are great movies. Like, just like, I couldn't find room for Spider-Man across the Spider-Verse.

Oh, you know, hit me number 10. It was my number 10. Yeah, like, it's an exceptional film. It's half a movie. So, like, theoretically, the next one could retroactively hurt it. Sure. But it's still incredibly well-made and excitingly animated and a lot of great character work. All that stuff was really, really great.

but yeah I do have my time I don't know I'm going to tell you what I love to hear I love to hear it because what was Penn Well here's the deal I had to rank it for another thing But I actually don't like rankings for me It's like there's number one I think it matters that you declare a number one

And all of the others they're in my top 10 I want you to see all of them It doesn't matter So let's do that Why don't you tell us your number one And then you can just go through your list And talk about something I'm curious My number one is a film that had an Oscar qualifying

release and is going to go wide in like a month. Yeah. So it's a French film called The Taste of Things. Okay. And it is one of the great food movies. Oh, okay. Which, you know, it's a subgenre, but the thing is everyone I think has their favorite, like that movie that makes you really, really hungry. And it is about

a French gourmet, and he's in love with his chef, and they make these incredible meals, and then she gets sick. Sick? And they don't know how sick she is. Oh, no. And he decides that for the first time, he's just going to cook for her. And it's incredibly romantic. The food that they craft is really astounding.

Got wonderful characters in it. And it's just it's just delicious. It's just the kind of movie. Like I can't imagine anyone watching this movie and going, that sucks. Like, no, it's a really sweet, romantic, beautifully filmed movie. And it's the kind of movie I think I would have loved even when I was a

kid, even though it was a French movie. It's really good. All right. I'll put that in a list. Yeah. Some other films have made my list. Go like one by one so we can talk, we can discuss them a little. Bottoms.

So I've heard, so I have not seen it yet. I have the screener. I have not watched it yet. I hear mixed things. I hear from, I'm not, I don't know who's, I'm curious who is saying it's bad

because I think it's the funniest comedy in here. Bottoms is, if you, if you haven't heard of it, it did quite well in the indie film circuit. Okay, I haven't heard of it. Breakout, break out. Yeah.

But if anyone's listening, it doesn't know about it. It's a teen comedy about a couple of, of lesbians who decide in order to be girls, they're going to start their own fight club. Okay. And so they do.

And it's got this kind of surreal energy that used to see in 80s movies like Better Off Dead, where like the world is really, really heightened and bizarre. But it all feels like it comes from like, this is how high school felt. You know, it all feels very real, even though it's very absurd.

The cast is impeccable. I lost track of how many times I laughed so hard. I miss jokes. Okay. And it has a really glorious ending. And it somehow manages to do all that while still tackling some legitimate, like, subjects, like things that matter. Sure.

And being kind of respectful of that while also being absolutely nonsensical. All right. It's really wonderful. All right. I want to check it out. Because like I said, I've heard somebody else say it was okay. But then I've seen, I've seen your point of view from a bunch of different people, too, and saying that they loved it.

So I might, well, I will check it. out. I have it. I'm gonna make sure. Well, I will. I'd like to definitely check that one out. I'm curious if there's so, so far, you've had, so I didn't see your first one. It sounds good. That one I didn't see, so it's not on my list yet. I'm curious if there's any of the ones that are in your list or in my list. So what's your, what else you got?

Let's see. All of Us Strangers. Have you seen that yet? That's next, that's queued up. That's the one. Okay. All of Us Strangers made me cry harder than any movie in years. Is that the World War II one? No. All of a Strangers is the one. starring Andrew Scott from Fleabag and he he's a middle-aged queer man and his parents died when he was a kid. And he's looking back on his life. He's trying to write something about his life.

And he goes back to his childhood home and his parents are just there. And they haven't aged since they died. And he gets to tell them what his life was like. And he finally gets to come out to them and find out what they would have responded. It's basically about I never really lived my life. because I was kind of living in the past, and it's a way to actually push through in this kind of magical realism kind of way.

The performances are unbelievably astounding, and it's incredibly honest and very romantic as well. He's got a great love story with Paul Muskell. And, yeah, it's just, it's a great. Okay, that sounds good, too. Well, let's switch for a second. I want to come back to your list because PLDM, did you make yours that?

Yes, I have made mine as well. But I have a lot I haven't seen in this like month, Matt, past one. So it's going to change quite a bit. That's what I always say. And I, and inside of these lists, and it's the first thing I say every time I make my top ten, it's like, look, I don't make your top ten list. I make mine. And I make my, and I make my, and I don't necessarily, like my number one, my favorite movie of the year isn't necessarily the movie I thought was the best film. I thought the best film for me was Oppenheimer.

That was the one that I enjoyed the most. That was my, that was the one I thought was. But that was my number two. My favorite movie of the entire year was Godzilla minus 1. That was the one that I just really enjoyed watching that movie. And I think that that's where how blockbusters should be made moving forward, but they won't think. There's a general misconception that critics are supposed to have your opinions. They're not.

Right. It's not about that. It's about sharing their opinions and you sharing them as well. It's about creating a conversation, not about like finishing it and not just about validating the audience. You can't do that for everybody. There will always be different opinions. And not everybody has the access to like. Certain films that you're able to see bibbs, people are not,

if I see someone in their comments right now, I said, like, I've seen two movies in the theater this year. So they have a very different list than you're going to have. So PLD, what do you, what do you have? I'll say real quick, my theme has basically been surprised of what a movie would be, like, in terms of, like, one of the ones I, like, a lot this year was talk to me because I didn't expect anything from it. I went and watched talk to me, I kind of found this solid horror thing.

I kind of expected to be at any run-of-the-mill thing, but I really found myself thinking about a lot afterwards. I want to see more in this world. very solid horror film. That's one of my favorite ones. Godzilla minus one was one of my favorite ones as well. I said that's my number one because I went in my brother is a Godzilla fanatic and I'm going to all the Godzilla stuff with them all the popcorn ones. And I expected another kind of popcorn throw them up kind of thing with Godzilla. And it was totally not bad. Like I cared more about the humans in the story that I've ever cared about any humans and any Godzilla story

so far. So that's my, it's my top two. Yeah. Bibs, what did you think of poor things? It's okay. I fucking loved it. It's good. Listen, the production designs great. The concept is weird and maybe don't think about it too much. And it's an interesting companion piece to Barbie in that they are both films that are extremely didactic about feminism. Yeah. In which people who are living outside the world are introduced to the world, discovering that it is strange, and discovering feminism in a very overt way that upsets all the men. I think it's a good movie. I didn't make my top 10. Didn't even make my top. 20 because it's just that good a year but it's a good movie it was it was my number four and the reason and the reason why was because it surprised me i've only liked the favorite um i didn't love the lobster

i didn't like i didn't like i just didn't love those movies so and i and when i started watching this movie i was like oh here's a edward scissor hands kind of rip-off film and yorgas is really good at filming the you know these particular shots and the the way that like there's beautiful shots in the way that he would move up the stairs and the usage of black and white. Really, it worked. But then everything that you just said about how Emma Stone was portraying this character, Bella, was working for me. And then Ruffalo shows up and how she's able to combat him with innocence and purity.

And he's making it as if it's not that. And it is, I don't know. He equates innocence with sort of a religious conservatism. He doesn't realize that if in the, absence of that, innocence is just confidence. Innocence is just accepting things in the way that they are. And he doesn't know how to handle it. He doesn't know how to control that.

He killed me because he's so good at being a douche in this movie. And I think this is his best role. So I was actually, because I think it shocked me so help because I shut it off after the first 10 minutes. I'm not going back to this. And then I was like, I got to finish it because everyone's talking about Emma Stone's performing. You always got to finish it.

You never know what you're going to mess. I know. And it was also because I'm going to, because I'm part of the BFCA and I've got to vote on it. So I'm like, I'm like, you know, I can't not watch it. I got to finish it. So I then I wanted to make sure that I did. And I'm so glad that I did because I was just so surprised. But what else you got in your list, boobs?

Well, I'll say this right now. It's brought up a lot. Godzilla minus one is on that list. Yeah, good. It's incredibly well crafted. Of the like three Godzilla movies that are like deadly serious, it's like the only one that's actually kind of hopeful. Yeah.

Which I think is something we really need right now. like, Nodzilla's always represented this very existential threat. We're getting a threat at the bomb or whatever. And this is the one where it's just like, you, maybe we can actually succeed. Maybe we won't all be doomed. And that's something I think we desperately needed right now. And it's so wonderfully crap that. That's a great movie.

Nimoa made my list. It was the animated film to make my list. It's a film that Disney, like, tried to kill. And they refused. And they took it away from Disney because Disney. Disney wanted them to take out all the queerness. It's literally about a gay hero who is disgraced and turned into like a public cry.

Yeah, my brother. My daughter watched it. Yeah, and it's about this trans character who like helps them like basically take over. Okay. And it's really, really, really emotionally powerful while also being just incredibly funny and energetic and creative. And I loved it to pieces. Skinnamarink for me was the horror movie of the year.

Okay. just taking that whole backrooms, you know, slow horror cinema movement that's going on online and transforming that into a really exceptional and distinct horror movie. That scared the crap out of me. I was just outside my top town, actually. I had a lot of experience. I wouldn't want to watch it again, to be honest with you,

but it was very... The other, like, horror-ish movie that made my list, and it really flown to the radar. It came out on Shutter is a thriller called Influencer. Okay. Influencer is about a young woman. Is that coy at a Marvel premiere? Chouche.

No, it's a thriller about a young woman. She's an online. She's an Instagram influencer and she's traveling abroad. And she meets another woman. And the other woman says, hey, let can show you around this area. I can show you all the cool places that nobody knows about. And I'm not going to tell you what happens other than she takes her to somewhere she was not expecting. and it turns into this

a really incredible Hitchcockian suspenseful thriller from there. It's really, really great. Noah was little about it going in. I thought it was fantastic. So I love that movie of the piece. Yeah, I'm trying. So that's one of the reasons I also wanted to,

I knew you were going to have some movies on there that I, A, found intriguing, B, haven't heard of. And for me, horror movies, I'm always going to be like, wait, what's that? Because I didn't, everyone's talking about, talk to me, and I haven't seen it. That's one of the ones. but I, my top 10, like I said, I had, I did have across the Spider-Verse in there.

Sure. I had, yeah, Bibbs, where do you stand? Because I walked out and I saw Christy and Alonzo talking about how much they loved it, and I loved it too. It was my number nine. But what did you think about Killers of the Flower Moon? Did you like it or hate it? It's a very good movie.

It's a very good movie. I think it is, I really do think it's incredible. I do think that the most interesting conversation about it is the fact that is this really Martin Scorsese's story to tell, and he did tell it largely from the perspective of the white murderers. And that is an interesting choice. And that doesn't make it a bad movie, but it does mean it's a best one we need to have long conversations about. But I thought Lily Gladstone is really phenomenal. And I actually think Leonardo DiCaprio gives a really fantastic performance. He's just unafraid to be seen as just a piece of shit. Just a terrible, terrible human being and not

afraid to display this easily tricked, like, just, and that's something that's really hard, I think, for some actors to do is to play. Yeah, well, especially, especially if he was supposed to play the Jesse Plyman's role. Yeah. And then he was like, no, I want to play this one because more to do, but like, and you couldn't, no matter, no matter what happens, you can't make that guy redeemable and even, and it was, no matter what happens to him, you're just like, now you are, you're atrocious, but. He's a monster. Yeah. So that was, that was on there for me. American fiction was on there for me. Did you like American fiction?

I like the performances more than maybe the whole movie because I think that movie is kind of trying to be this like very excellently, you know, thorough, in-depth kind of character study. Yeah. But it's also got this kind of broad comedy dynamic where like a mistaken identity thing. And I don't think they always come together well. And for me, didn't hit. I thought the ending, I thought it could, the ending could have saved it.

And then at the end, it just felt like they took like the clever way out. but I don't think they took the emotionally honest. I think that's fair. It's still good, it's not a bad movie. I love that. I thought Jeffrey Wright was great, but I do understand that criticism,

but I also, because one of the things that I said about is it almost felt like a really long pilot episode for a television show I kept wanting to watch, you know, and it's, so, yeah, that works. But PLD,

what else you got on your list? My favorite, I'm a big Indian Jones guy, Indiana Jones hit for me. So I love Jim Jones. I go, me and DJ Campbell will talk to you about that all the time. We have a little podcast where we went,

how it was like one of the best film, of the year easily for us and it fit the franchise well for us. We thought as a different, different tape. Then again, we also like Christmas go, so that shows you something about us. I'm on the bibbs, huh, point of view. It's not the worst thing I've ever seen or anything like that. For me, the worst part is that I left to the theater not going, yeah, or, oh, man, but I went going, huh, yeah.

I kind of felt like that fit the vibe of it. There was an older, eight-year-old version movie. this one yes i kind of felt like the older harrison ford like he's 80 years old doing nana jones and like it's it's not the adventure used to be it's a different kind of adventure and it doesn't give you a good one though and it is and the and them overspending show that that's a different yeah also the the digital de-aging look like crap yeah it makes me out of it every time i've very rarely seen that done convincingly and right disney is honestly mostly uniquely bad at it It wasn't neat.

There's a couple times they hit it, but I agree with you mostly. And it did start. There are certain times they were trying to overdo it that it just looked so bad. It's like you'll do it in moments where you know you can perfect it. But, you know, one of the things I've said kind of almost an exhaustion to the audience, but I want to see if you agree or disagree with the, I think one of the main things with Indiana Jones for me was that by the time you get to that ending and it's so, I mean, that ending alone probably cost $50 to $60 million. It's an expensive sequence.

It's super expensive. And that takes away from the essence of really what the Indiana Jones movies did. Now, granted, back in 1989, things were expensive for the practical effects, and probably for 1990, the last crusade was probably an expensive movie. However, the most effective scene is Indiana Jones walking into a cave with an old man in the cave, and then it's just this, the only thing that is the practical effects is Donovan, like, melting or whatever, turning into bones. And even that they repeated from Raiders.

Right. But it was simple. It's a simple. Because it's about the characters. Yes. It is. It's about the, you know, the thing with Indiana Jones is that everyone always thinks of these big spectacle movies, but they're actually just really well thought out

movie. Like the opening sequence of Raiders of Lost Ark. It's this incredible action sequence, not because he runs from a Boulder, but because they take it real slow. He avoids every trap. We understand the mechanism of every trap. Right. One after another.

after another. And then that moment where you realize, oh, we just sprung a trap. And we're really, really screwed. And then he has to run through all the things that he went through really slowly to avoid dying. It's like pulling an elastic band and then snapping it.

That's that entire sequence. Yep. There isn't that level of thought and care that goes into most adventure movies, period. Well, it's the same thing to, just to repeat myself, why I think Godzilla minus one is my top because that is a big blockbuster action movie

that relies on character and when you get to Godzilla, you earn it. And these movies and not just Indiana Jones because I didn't hate, I liked it way more than Crystal Skull for God'sxx, but I definitely, but still it's just so much. I watched it recently again with my wife

and I was like, yeah, it's just forgettable. And it just doesn't have that. You don't care. And the moment that you did care was at the very, very end, him and Marion like you're like okay like I that was a great where's that where was that the entire time and like because feebola bridge who I think is great not in the movie per se but in general and they just made her character kind of an asshole a lot of the times with no she leaves her to die

like three different times they did um Indiana Jones and um the last crusade except they made indiana jones Sean Connery but they made Sean Connery the main character and they made Indiana Jones have less of a relationship with Sean Connery. That isn't dramatically effective. It's hard to get invested in that. Like, the older I get, the more I actually think the Last Crusade is kind of the best movie in the series for that emotional connection that we have.

I understand that. And Raiders has a few minor problems, things that I think undermine it. But like, it's mostly great. But like Last Crusade is just an absolute delight of a movie because it has that cornerstone. And I just felt this movie like, it came close. Like they kept brushing up against cool stuff. And then they were like, no, let's not make it cool.

Yeah, it just, but sorry for shitting all over your pick. It's all good. I get it. It worked for me as the older. That's totally fair. So, and then, all right, so Bibbs, what else is on your list? Let's see, Barbie. I thought Barbie was great.

It's, um, it's a movie that I think has been, you know, there have been legit criticisms about it for the way that it tackles a lot of its subject. but the fact that Barbie tried to tackle as much as it did, the fact that it tried to take a movie that was clearly intended to appeal to all audiences and kids and tried to use that as an opportunity to incredibly entertainingly discuss big ideas that are really important to impart. I'm really impressed at the way that they managed it. I think they overall did an excellent job.

I think the music was just astounding. Ryan Gosling is really, really funny. in that movie. And I think it's weirdly, like, impressively subversive. Like, it's a story about, like, a non-binary asexual utopia that is then, like, undermined by performative heteronormativity. And I'm like, that's really weird. Like, that made a billion dollars.

Right. All the rules need to be thrown out because there's no way any AI machine would have done that to a Barbie movie. there's no conceivable way so I think it's a really exciting film on a lot of levels it makes a few swings it doesn't hit but I'm just impressed by how much it actually knocked out of that part so it didn't hit for me I didn't really love it

but I understand why it did as well as it did and I understand why people do love it like and I understand the connection and everything you said about it I understand how you perceive it that way and how others do but just didn't work for me and what you were talking we were talking about before with poor things and this I like the way poor things handled all of those subjects better than Barbie did, but also because it's a little bit more warped and you can't do that in a fucking Barbie movie.

But what they did in Barbie, and I think that Greta Gerwig is just a very, very talented filmmaker. And I like what she does. I like her approach to it. I like their approach in general what they did. But I did think it was a bit all over the place sometimes in tone. I thought there were sometimes. And it was like, as you were talking about beforehand with what the hell,

the movie we were just talking about fibs and you said that it was indian jones no no uh um the american fiction how you said that sometimes they so it's kind of broad comedy at times and then it was then there's a speech that's like you're supposed to be locked into what's going on here and the speech of all series full drama and it just it it it didn't work for me but then i look around and i'm seeing people dressed it it was a phenomenon it wasn't because of that that's good for movies and that's why i rooted for this movie because when I went to see and my daughter and my wife absolutely adored it. They loved it. And when I was walking through the theater for seeing something else, I think it was like the meg or something. And my daughter saw everybody dressed in pink and she

wanted to take pictures and in the, I mean, this is something that happened like when we were kids, like the E.T lines across the thing. Like yeah, that's good for cinema. So I applaud the movie for that. It's just on an on an actual enjoyment level, it just just wasn't for me. Yeah, that's fair. That's totally fine. Did you want bibs? I mean, bibs. You said that already. I did see the other thing. I did. I loved that.

Everything was. My wife and I saw it together, and I thought it was, I was subversively, like, it was all big and loud and obnoxiously out there. But, but, but it is right. What the story is trying to tell is impressive. Like, they used, like, this big loud noise to tell just a great, met, have a great message, of a great story that you don't see anywhere else. Right. The fact that it was made and put out and made a billion dollars is more, even more important, impressive to me than the actual movie itself.

But I did love Gosling. in it. I love the cast. Shootie got what was phenomenal in it. They all were just wonderfully done. I'm a big fan. I mentioned it earlier, so I'll get into it, too, and I'm watching it again with my wife right now, and that's my number two was Oppenheimer. And it's, to me, one of Nolan's best,

and just re-watching it again. It's just, it's so gorgeous to look at this. As far as, and the filmmaking, and even watching it on my big screen at home, the way that it's shot for like iMacs you can tell obviously when it's when it's switching and it just looks it's i can't take my eyes off it it's like it's like a you know a person you're attracted to you're like whoa you just can't i shouldn't be staring this long and it's it's it's so it's just such a well-done film of performances kelyan murphy and this will kind of talk about next as i'm curious bibbson your thoughts on who you think are the kind of the front-runners

in the Academy Awards. I would say that he's probably the frontrunner for Best Actor. Honestly, I haven't really thought much about the Academy Awards, specifically in terms of like who is a front run. I'm sure he'll be nominated.

I'd be surprised if he wasn't nominated. That would be a very weird snub. Regarding Oppenheimer, I'm glad you liked it that much. You didn't love it? I didn't love it. I think it's mostly well-crafted film. I think the entire black and white, Robert Danny Jr. sequence strikes me as a really desperate attempt to give this movie some

sense of heroic closure when in reality there was none. And it never feels like it really connects to anything properly. It feels really, really thin. But honestly, the performances are excellent. It is very well filmed. It's not a bad movie. It's a good movie. It just didn't come close to my top 20. It's right there for me. I've got to say, I hope this gets more for Killian Murphy. I've been a big time killing Murphy fan for a long time so I want to see more and more from him and I'm glad he's getting his due for this and hope he's at least said more things for him yeah yeah I know that he was rumored for um fantastic four and as much as I love killing him Murphy I think that's a terrible

choice um yeah for who for real I think dr. no dr. doom dr. doom dr. Jim yeah it's kind of kind of on the nose yeah I I I kind of hate I kind of hate the choice to be honest with you um I think it should be my my choices are i still think henry cabble would be such a good switch to take that would be a fun that would be a fun yeah to go for superman and dr doom from dc to marvel and it's a character you have to like remove his handsome face from the yeah yeah you have to so you get that gone and he gets to just actually focus on his incredible presence um that could that that could be really cool i would be totally down for them yeah the other person that's been rumored for a while is ryan gosling Which would be interesting, especially coming out.

For Dr. Doom. For Doom. Which could work. I mean, I think he kind of need a movie. I think it's interesting that none of the people were talking about are Romani. Or what? Very specific. Dr. Doom was a Romani character.

Oh, okay. He's actually, like, from, like, historically oppressed people, and it's kind of, like, really important to his character. And that's not part of that conversation at all. I think that's interesting. But he's a great character. He's my favorite, one of my favorite comic book characters. period. And it's frustrating that

the best version we've had of him in like outside of comics has been the Corman movie, which say what you will. At least they understood that character is gravitas. They understood like those Tim story movies.

Julian McMan was not at that story. No, they tried really, really hard to write that ship in the second one. They tried to fix Dr. Doom in the second one. It was not, they did not have the material. It didn't work. It was a real shame. No, and then they're going to need a movie star, though, for that role because they just

from if, if you believe the cast that has been heavily rumored because Vanessa Kirby, great actress. Is she a big household movie star? She's not. Well, the kid from Stranger Things. What's his name, Campbell? I know what you're talking about. They were up on that show a long time ago. Okay. Jamie bout, Jamie. No, it's Joseph Quinn.

Joseph Quinn. So Joseph Quinn is Johnny Storm and he's so again I think it's interesting that we're even having the movie star conversation when literally Marvel built itself on making movie stars. Yeah, but but a lot of the superhero movies you look at me because even Iron Man, Iron Man had the first one had Jeff Bridges in it. Yeah, he wasn't exactly packing him in though. He was a, he was the respectable actor. That's kind of what I mean though. I was like, even so, I mean, because Henry, Henry Cavill ain't packing him in either. He's just a very notable.

I've just been someone more recognizable. Because Vanessa Kirby, you're like, oh, that's the woman from the crown or that's the woman from Mission Impossible. Well, the irony is that no one will be recognizable as Dr. Doom except for the flashback sequence. So that one's kind of irrelevant. It might as well get Andy Circus back or something. Yeah, I know. Well, speaking of it, it's not an circus, but how about apes? How are we feeling about apes coming on?

I'm pumped for that. I mean, I felt like this new Apes series has gone downhill successfully since the first one. I thought the first one was really, really great. I thought the second one was pretty good. It didn't fully appreciate how fundamentally ridiculous a lot of its imagery was, but it was mostly good. I watched War of the Planet of the Apes.

I thought it was one of the worst movies of the year. I rewatched it after everyone said it was great, and I confirmed it was one of the worst movies in the year. It doesn't have an original idea in its body. It's just literally copied and paste. from war movies and attempt to make you think it's like a serious war movie. So you're excited about the next one? I actually, I hope it's okay because I actually think West Ball is a really good filmmaker.

I thought, you know, the Mazurner movies didn't have great material, but I think that's great one is a real good. They were better than people give them credit. And I think that guy potentially has the within him to like make a truly epic, interesting movie. But I don't know. I don't know what the story is with this one. You know, the other eight movies, they were like,

stealth remakes of other films in the series, but they were all out of order. And so I don't, is this, it doesn't seem like it's going to be Planet of the Apes. So which are you doing beneath the planet of the age? I'm not sure. No, right. I think they did reveal it's something. I think it's like 300 years after the last, which is where the first planet of the apes took place.

Like it was a long time after the fall of man. Right. So, because I think he started with, they started with conquest of the planet of the apes. That was when Rise was. And then they. moved basically to, I think, battle of the planet of the apes, like, pretty much

like a straight line. And then, yeah, and then I just, weird choices all around. But they set up in that first movie that the spaceship went up. Yeah. Theoretically, we'll get to that someday. I don't know. Maybe that's where the big surprise ending of this movie or whatever. I don't know. Listen, you give

everything a shot, but I'm not as high on this new eight movie. The visual effects notwithstanding. They're incredible, but like, okay. Yeah, it's going to hit my, And I think that's kind of our transition. Unless there's any other movies that you guys definitely want to talk about in the... I mean, it's one of the bleakest movies you're ever going to see, but the zone of interest is fantastic. Yeah, that's the one I was talking about before.

That's the World War II movie, right? That is a World War II movie. It is about the day-to-day normal lives of the Nazis living right next door to Auschwitz. They do not care. They are completely apathetic to everything happening on the other side of that wall. They just care about, like, doing their dishes and, like, Like it's absolutely bleak and it feels weirdly topical, this whole thing about how this is what people did when there was a genocide.

They just went about their business. And it's really hard not to like look around with the audience and go, they're talking about us, aren't they? Really, really messed up. But it's great. It's incredible motion picture. But boy, is it a downer. I don't know if I can do it.

I get it. I totally get it. It's one of those movies where I'm going to tell you it's great. I'm also going to tell you it is not for. it's not the movie you slap on at any time. Right. Everyone, everyone,

you have to decide to watch this movie, I think. But I think you'll get a great move. Yeah, the thing is I know that it's going to wind up getting. I like to always see every movie that's nominated because, I mean, not only for the voting aspect of it,

but also because when I don't like to be a hypocrite when it comes down to, because I've been sitting in the living room with my mother-in-law, she's like, that movie doesn't deserve to win. I'm like, well, did you see it? No. I'm like, how do you know? I don't want to do that.

So I always like to watch all them, but I just don't know if I, if I want to, because I know, I know how I'm going to feel just from hearing you talk about it. I understand. I get it. I really, really get it. And I do that too. You know, I'm trying to watch every single movie that comes out. But man, there's sometimes where I'm like, yeah, it's tough. I'm not in the mental headspace right now to not hate this experience.

Not this like the movie, but understand that not every movie is trying to make you feel good. and I'm not always in the mood to enter into that contract right now. I think that's what it is, is that I just want to like, because I've watched this, and that's why I kind of want to shift into the anticipated because there are some, as we get into, to me, the one that, what's hilarious about it is I forgot to put it on my list for anticipated this year. And then, no shodomis me, he got moved to next year. And that's Dune, too.

I got moved and that got moved to, oh, I mean, this year. I'm not saying you got moved to 2025. No, it was very difficult for this year. And around, I think the beginning of November, and I had put on my list, everyone was like, where is it? Where is it? You love Dune 1 so much. How come it's Dune 2's not on your list?

I was like, because I'm a stupid asshole and I forgot it. And then I guess I didn't forget it. I just, I knew it was being moved. And so it was moved and it is absolutely on the top of my list. I cannot wait for that film. might just, yeah, I'm pretty excited for it. Did you like the first one, Bibbs? Not really.

I actually think that first movie, that first movie, it's an impressive scale of production. Don't get me wrong. Yeah. But I think in an attempt to take this very impenetrable text that historically, like David Lynch's version is a deeply confusing movie in a lot of ways because they tried to cram so much in. And an attempt to make that clear so that every. everyone can understand it, I thought they stripped out all the personality, all the character, all the philosophy. It's just a bunch of stuff that happens in a row now.

And I really didn't like it. Damn. I think the David Lynch version for all its flaws is an infinitely superior cinematic experience because at least it's interesting and not, yeah, we build a bunch of like gray buildings in a desert. I respect you, but I hate that. David Lynch movie. I hate that movie. Far enough. I respect that David Lynch movie. I like them both. You like them both. There you go. David Lynch hates that movie. That's not the point. I just think it's

Yeah, I know. That's fair. So PLD, what do you have on your list? My anticipated ones, I have two ones I want to talk about real quick. Well, first, Nosferatu next December. I love, I love what I love what Aggers can do. I don't I love the Northman. I really enjoyed it. The Northman was last year, right? Yeah. Yeah, it wasn't this year It was last year Yeah, but I love that guy I'm a big fan of Bill Scarsgarard

I think he's going to handle this role very, very well And I like to discuss real quick as you know me, it's Love Lives Bleeding because I can see frequently... Is Ed Harris in it? Ed Harris has the critique group pretty much at this point But no, it looks really good. Roche Glass did a St. Maud last year

which is a very interesting film to me and this looks very interesting as well seeing Christian Stewart and what's her name, Kitty O'Brien is in it as well. Oh, right, right, right, right, right. It looks like a very creepy, look like a very creepy take on things. They found like very visualized energy,

energetic kind of like had a very synth-like score kind of thing, kind of got this very gauzy, seedy kind of look. I thought it was really cool. Bibbs, do you approach, when you get, you know, the screenings for the Marvel movies now and the DC movies,

do you feel the way that I do when like generic horror movies pop up now? They just kind of, ugh. No, I mean, it's, here's the thing with these like anticipation conversations what are the most anticipated movies in the year I have complicated feelings about that

because I actually think anticipation is kind of seriously damage the industry and audiences in a lot of ways. I think we spend so much time whether it's on YouTube or whether it's writing articles or podcasts or whatever talking about speculating about what's going to come out and forming ideas in their head about what those films are

going to be. And getting people excited about it as though we're unpaid or extremely poorly paid publicists is, I think it's really dangerous. And I think it's really hard for a lot of those movies to actually compete with the made up movie. The audience sometimes builds up in their head. So I try not to get too anticipatory. And I just try to say, listen, I'm going to be seeing everything anyway. I'm a film critic. But also, they could. suck. Like what, at some point, I think it's more important. My podcast co-host Whitney Seibold has a great line. He says, the time to get excited about a movie is after you've seen it. Because then you know if it's good. Because there's this thing that we've had for so long, and the Marvel movies are

especially guilty of this, where people get really excited to go see this movie. And then when they leave the movie, all they're talking about is the post-credit sequence. What about the movie part of the movie? Not the trailer part of the movie. And I've been seeing a lot less of that this year. I've been seeing a lot of people actually just get excited about the movie they just watched and less about the anticipation of what's to come. That being said, I'm not completely immune to this.

And there are a couple of movies where I'm just like, I will be first in line. I'm very, very curious. They just announced that the people's Joker got distribution. People thought that would never happen. That's really exciting. I mean, there's a new George Miller post-apocalyptic car chase movie coming. There's no way I'm going to miss that.

You know, like there's, There's never been a bad one. So, you know, this would be the first. So that's exciting to me. Yeah. But, yeah, I'm saying, I'm looking right now. I'm trying to, like, I was, as you were mentioning, it's like, oh, I didn't know we're going to talk about this.

I'm just looking at what's to come. And I'm thinking myself, yeah, okay, that might be good. Right. Well, but I need a juice coming out. That might be good. I don't know. I do, again, respect your opinion on it. But I, and I've heard you say this before, and I've talked to you better before, on air, off

air, off air. I don't disagree with the notion. I mean, I disagree with the notion that you can't get excited for movies because it, because you're going to either ruin it for yourself or ruin it for other people who you're building up this particular movie. It's, it's the, it's the cliche saying of, you know, speculate responsibly, right? And not everybody can do that. And it's the same way that.

What's that? Speculate responsibly? Yeah. Yeah. I haven't heard that. A lot of people, yeah, a lot of people. But either way, it's the same way in like, if I get excited to go to a, you know, or a restaurant, I'm like, oh, I'm so pumped.

waiting to get to go to this Mediterranean restaurant for the last three weeks. I know I'm going to love. I'm going to get the fricking dish that I want. I'm going to get the hummus. I'm going to get this. I'm going to get it. And then the chef has an off day and it sucks. Well, yeah, I psyched myself out.

And I thought the same type of thing. You can absolutely do that. And you can do it with Star Wars. You can do it with Marvel. You can do it. Yes, you can have an idea in your head. But I think there's two, there's two ways also that I always talk about this in Star Wars. If you're like, okay, well, I would love to see, hopefully in this

movie, they revisit this and they revisit that and they do this and they go back to the old republic and they don't do any of that. It's and but they make a good movie. Yeah. And I don't like it because it didn't make my movie. Then I agree with you. Then I completely. I think and I think we see that a lot. I think people do that. But I think that's something that is we sometimes in the industry. I don't mean you. I just mean in the generally in the industry. We're guilty of stoking that. It's not just like I'm excited to go to this restaurant tonight. It's like, no, we've been speculating on this for three years. Sure.

And we've been making money off of that speculation. And we have been attempting to build an audience off of that speculation. And there's something a little parasitic about that. Because ultimately, what we're giving people is nothing. After the movie comes out, all of that speculation, if it was wrong, is meaningless. Well, you can argue that speculation is fun. You can argue that speculation is fun and exciting. You get to have the shared experience to speculate.

but I would argue that it's what we're really doing here is romanticizing gambling. You're gambling, aren't you? Do you have any control over the outcome? I mean, listen, no, but it's also, listen, you're also trying, it's, it's, the question is it authentic. Is it authentic excitement? Is it authentic, you know, the fact that you've been waiting for this movie and you saw a trailer and you're like, oh, I saw that one particular scene and I wonder if that means this and then you portray that to your friend off camera or your friend on camera and you're legitimately really talking about it and then it delivers for you because there's a lot of movies that you can speculate

about and then it does deliver and then you still talk about it look at and whether you're like it or not and said it was a successful movie that a lot of people did like and that was endgame there's a lot of things about end game that you that people got wrong and they speculated too but then they loved it they love a lot of stuff that came out like oh Thanos didn't do this he did that you can you can't speculate as much as you can i don't disagree with you that it has become a thing we're like, oh, I'm going to make this video just because I know I'm going to get the hits on it. I can say this. I can say this. People do that shit all the time for sure. But it's a matter of having excitement for a film or a television show and discussing it and like, oh, guys, I'm waiting

for this one for a while. I wonder if this is going to happen. I wonder if this. I don't think that's damaging. I don't agree with that. I think that. I'm going to, I'm going to clarify something here just so that we're clear. I'm not saying that anticipation is disingenuous, or least that it can't be. And I'm not saying that sharing that is necessary a problem. What I think is that in the industry that we are in, this not necessarily what people consider the industry proper to people who comment on that, whether you're doing so in an official capacity as a critic or, you know, as a pundit or whatever, or talk to, however you choose to define yourself. I think we have a certain responsibility collectively to, regardless of what is,

we may think it's innocent. I think we do need to consider the impact that we have. And I think that is something that we should seriously consider and debate and sometimes say to ourselves, you know, this may be, you know, something I'm genuinely excited about. But is my excitement warranted? Is my excitement something that I should be, it is, it is responsible to impart on literally everyone? And that I'm not saying there's a yes, no answer to that. I think it's a conversation we should be having more. because I think what we're seeing now with the gradual demise in public interest

over a lot of the movies and the TV shows that were driving our side of the industry for the better part of 20 years, especially the last 10, but the better part of 20 years, with the demise of general mainstream interest in that, but it's not gone,

it will always do okay, but it won't be as huge as it was for a while. Sure, sure. We need to figure out what else we can do. We need to figure out what else the conversation is because it's not going to be figuring out, like, oh, we're going to spend like hours and hours and years and years speculating about what's going to be in a superhero movie

that makes $30 million opening weekend. That's, the people are going to see that that's not where the industry should be. I think we start talking about what that needs to transform into, and I think moving away from the late great James Rocky called the Marvel Industrial, the Marvel Anticipation Industrial Complex. He called the Marvel Industrial Complex. I call it the anticipation industrial complex. But I think the whole industry is changing from the top down.

And I think we are part of that. And I want to be part of that conversation and rather than just wait for it to happen and then awkwardly adjust. I agree. Look, I agree that the conversation needs to be had more and end of business depth than is changing in our own. But the most important thing out of all this to end out is where do you stand on UFOs? Yes. The government says they're real now.

I mean, come up. The X-Files, they keep talking about we're going to reboot the X-Files. Why? What could be more useless than the X-Files now? The only way you could reboot the X-Files and make it work is if, like, he said it in the 70s. They don't need. It's the only thing you could do. You are not wrong.

They don't, they, what they should really do is take some of these stories about the, the guy, the, the, the, the Harvard professor that went to Zimbabwe that had the, that the entire school of children saw this thing come down and like, make that movie. Let's, make that television show. And then that guy died. There's so many real stories that they could actually make that I would be fascinated by. Yeah.

All right, look, we had a fun Patreon, big thing show here, man. I was excited to have bibs on with us talking some movies and same with PLD.

And thanks for joining us. If you watched us live, thank you. If you're watching us on the replay, thank you as well. We've got a lot of fun things coming out with the Patreon in 2024. I think,

Maybe we'll extract the audio for this one and put it up on the podcast feed. Sure. I think this is a good one to have on the podcast feed. I don't say anything too embarrassing. No, you did not. As always, Pipes, it was a pleasure to see. I was running into it screenings, and it was nice to see you here. So thanks for joining us today.

Oh, yeah, so there was a question that came in for you, Pips, from one of our great patrons, Mark J. Ali, who says, growl, growl, and how are the soap? doing bibs. Growl growl to you as well. And the soaps are good. If you head on over to patreon.com slash sulkat soap, you can join the Saltcat Soap of the Month Club.

We still make and sell soaps. We're in the process of working out a new online store since the way Etsy worked was no longer cost effective. It was kind of predatory and crap. So we're in the process of working on that. And if you follow me on social media, I'm at William to Beani everywhere. or if you follow Salt Kat Soap on social media at Salt Katsoap,

be on the lookout for updates that's going on too. And hey, you know, I got a Patreon as well. So if anyone's like, hey, I don't spend enough money on Patreon. You can head on over to patreon.com slash critically acclaimed network. And we have a lot of exclusive shows there. And yeah, and also if everyone who likes Godzilla, you know, we have a Godzilla podcast now on our main feed called Thank Godzilla. It's Friday.

It's where we've been reviewing every Godzilla. and Godzilla adjacent movie. Nice. And it's been a real trip. I got to tell you. I'm sure that. How many are there, total? Well, if, okay, if you only count the Godzilla movies, it's like in the 30s,

but if you count all the, like the spin-offs. Yeah. Like, Mothra and all the ones that, like, it's a monster. Inside the franchise. It's like, it's over 50. Jeez. Yeah. And it's been really, really great because we got to explore, like, someone like the weird ones

that no one ever talks about. Yeah. And you get to realize that, like, oh, shit, like, Jordan Peel saw this before he made, nope. like this is incredible so um it's been really really cool and for all the ones that are famous there's a whole bunch that aren't that are really fascinating so that's been really good good go and check that out guys so once again great to have bibs on great to have you guys with us today pld as always thank you my friend and yeah we'll see you guys very very soon and

let's hope 2004 is an amazing year thanks for joining us and we'll see you next time bye and we'll go