The Kristian Harloff Show - Ant-Man And The Wasp: Quantumania becomes second rotten MCU film on Rotten Tomatoes

Episode Date: February 27, 2023

Become a Patron!: https://www.patreon.com/TheBigThingShow Ant-Man And The Wasp Quatumania is the second MCU film to hit rotten on Rotten Tomatoes just over The Eternals. What did the crew think? Justified? We give our NON SPOiLER review of the film. Kevin Feige gives updates on the upcoming plans for Marvel. We talk about The Flash trailer and we also discuss the lowest ranked MCU films by Rotten Tomatoes. This week's Big Thing Capes and Cowls with Kristian Harloff, Winston A. Marshall and Coy Jandreau! antmanandthewaspquantumania #marvel #MCU #rotten ATHLETIC GREENS: http://www.athleticgreens.com/bigthing MANSCAPED: http://www.manscaped.com/bigthing OUR MERCH STORE IS LIVE: https://www.teepublic.com/stores/the-big-thing-kh-channel?ref_id=27393 FOLLOW KRISTIAN + FIND HIM ON CAMEO https://cameo.com/kristianharloff https://twitter.com/kristianharloff https://facebook.com/harloff https://instagram.com/kristianharloff AMAZON WISHLIST: https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/1KPH42T0TP0PG?ref=cm_sw_em_r_un_un_djbxgIW5ZQMMg SCHMOEDOWN ARCHIVE CHANNEL: https://www.youtube.com/c/TheMovieTriviaSchmoedownArchives Ask Kristian questions for next time! https://facebook.com/harloff OTHER GREAT CONTENT: REVIEWS https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLSJdE28YyUT368qY7sfE0nKE4c04CqGvu TV REVIEWS https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLSJdE28YyUT1LU-t2Z9AD5UJDiWW4pS_E STAR WARS SHOW https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLSJdE28YyUT0XmfpbblkF9PY7uO2qhbN6 THE BIG THING PODCAST https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLSJdE28YyUT3KAwbzDsv6mdR-gwUiydQg

Getting angry with Twitter Running in the street And screaming at people That's what we don't do Well I guess some of us do Just not on this show Hi everybody Oh is the cameras on this thing on

Nice to see everybody Or listen to me I guess that's what you're doing You're listening to me Some of you on Spotify or Apple Tunes Apple Tunes? Apple Tunes? Have you been on the Apple Tunes? Good for you. Good for me.

All right. I guess this is recording. It's nice to hear everybody. I can't hear any of you. You can hear me. That's what we're talking about here. It's capes and cows. It's the big thing.

And we're going to talk about Ant Man, quantumania. Oh man. This is Eternals all over again, as I thought. A lot of people don't like this movie, man. And I knew it coming out of that theater. I don't think a lot of people like this movie.

I liked it. I don't give a shit. So whether you liked it or not, That's up to you. But subscribe to the channel, will you? Hit that button. Show a little class, just an ounce. We'll talk about, this is not a spoiler.

We've got this full spoiler with me and Winston Koi coming out on Monday. We'll get into that. But we're going to talk about some of these other stories as well. I mean, we'll definitely talk about Ant Man because there's a big story. It's the only other, it's the only, it's the, for some reason. Oh, it's, Amman 3 is a second rotten Marvel film, that in Eternals on Rotten Tomatoes. Comic movie did a worst ranked MCU. We'll see if we get into that.

There's a big shuffle with Marvel stuff, and Kevin Feige addressed a lot of the stuff, but they also said they're going to scale back on some of the amount of stuff coming out right now, and I think that's why right now they're saying that Secret Invasion and Loki are really the only guaranteed shows that are coming out in 2023. Is that the right move?

And then there's a rumor, man. Ian McKellen, Magneto. Is he going to be in Deadpool 3? We'll talk about that and more on the show today. So as I mentioned, Spotify, hit the, get on over there and follow us on Spotify

because we've been in the top charts, which has been great. And if you guys, you know, first time we did it. So if you guys head over there and you follow us, it helps tremendously.

It really does. Patreon.com slash the big thing show. I got some announcements going on with what we're going to be doing. We're starting a website soon. So I'll talk to you about that in a minute. But get yourself a shirt. Get yourself a shirt, man. Whether it's the black,

night or it could be a whole bunch of other things we have going on black night we've got the capes and cows big thing that and more but you got to go over there and check it out all right it's me it is coy john dro and winston a marshal it's capes and cows everybody you ready to do it yeah me too let's do it what up everybody capes and cows again it's me some of you before Boy is there Winston's there And there's the three of us I love

I was trying to get out of shot That's all good I tell you I probably appreciate that You know you know after last week I mean I Bro I've been coming up with some white people Burners like I feel like every show now

I have a reason to just make How fun it is See how fun it is? That's completely That's what you love That's completely I have been making white people uncomfortable since middle school

And that's what you love Absolutely Okay Well it's it's very simple It's very simple. I grew up as the black kids around about white people, and just by being the solo, dolo, or one of very few, it became very normal for me to feel like another.

So there's nothing more fun than watching a white person say something so innocent. All you got to do, you're not even necessarily, you don't even have to say that. All you got to do from now on is just do this. Oh, shoot. Interesting. Absolutely. I've done that before. That's one of my favorites.

I was like the sheer knowledge of my camera and the fear that brings this this whole aura of knowing I've done something horribly wrong Oh, you do that every week on this show every week every week just the sheer fear you find something and the funny thing is these trolls that keep coming for you If they need a cannon fodder I feel bad that I'm arming them But like you shit there's that night Colonizing my screen I mean in fairness the colonizer one is funny because like you know I celebrate the queen's death more than And like I appreciate the fact that she caused a lot of problems for both of our people. Like she is the potato famed one away. You really, you really have a Sith Lord living in your soul.

I got a lot of hate in me. You really do. I do. Because I only get to fight anymore because I get used my face. They're not even on the show right now. They're not even on the, no, I don't even have them sponsor, but better help. You got to really check out. Oh, no. I'm in therapy.

I mean, I value therapy. I'd be way worse without it. Use the discount. I just, I just think, I just think people are the worst. Here's what you need to do, Coy. What you need to do is you go. Get a nap. Somebody made me get up.

Not back to early today. First of them, no more of this. No, no, that's key. I'm caffeine in my water now. The Roadrunner. Go watch the last season of Atlanta, the second episode. There's a whole thing about therapy and being petty that I think you will learn so much. You know what I want to do is I want to get the, every time I just want to read one of his tweets,

I just want that sound bite of that dude, Daddy, chill. I love your description when I came in. I'm sure Daniel Radcliffe in that movie with the guns in his hands, like in the, in the bathrobe, it's like wandering with the... Yeah, I just said,

I said every time I see, every time I see Koi tweeting out, I just feel like he's in a, in his bathrobe and, and underwear in the middle of, middle of the street in a bad neighborhood, just like this. So he,

so you're calling him, uh, the, that one artist that got really popular in the pandemic, which it's like Mark Riblet. Oh, Mark Rivet. Yeah, everybody get the fuck up.

Let's go. It's him just fucking tweeting and shit. Dude, he's incredible. Incredible. I love that man. I'm going to feed the hell out of this show already. A lot of editing.

We're into it. But yeah, no. I just, I think it's an important thing to stand up with a little guy, even when you're the little guy. And sometimes trolls delete their accounts, and I feel better for it. Okay, Paul Rudd.

I'm just saying. I'll tell you. You can always be bigger. You can also. You say that now. I think you'll wake up when they and go the same way. I hope so, because it's fun and exhausting.

All right. It's in between sets of the gym. The pumpkin's so much better when you're angry. It's right there. They're fueling my gains. Play a video game. You can bet. Seriously. I'm down 4% body fat, down 6 pounds.

You know what? Trolls. Jerk off in the woods or something. We're in Los Angeles. I got to go to big bear. Anyway, listen. Hey, hey, kids. What a show today.

Oh, my God. I don't even know how much this is going to make the beginning of the show. All right, look, we got things to talk about. We got things to talk about. It's one of those. was one of those mornings, so who knows? Maybe sometimes you're going to get a really clean show, and sometimes you have today.

There's so much that we can really dive into, and I think that the first thing that we should dive into, to be honest, is this, the news, it's the first rotten movie. It's our second rotten movie next to Eternals. And as I mentioned to you guys, we're going to get into our full kind of spoiler discussions, and even, like Greg Alba, myself and Campia

will be at flappers at a sold-out show. so that'll be fun. This Sunday will be there talking about all this, which will make interesting conversation, I'm sure. But Ant Man in the Wasp, Chronomania becomes a second MCU movie to drop to rotten status on Rotten Tomatoes. This is, of course, from comic book movie. It's probably fair to say that Phase 5 hasn't got off to the best of starts.

Well, critically, we don't know yet for as far as financially. The review embargo for Marvel Studios, Ant Man and the Wasp lifted earlier today, while the first wave of verdicts were mixed positive, the most part, the critical consensus soon turned to the negative. Peyton Reed's sci-fi adventure is currently sitting at 54%, 51 now, with 121 reviews counted. Antman and LaMas, Quantably most lacks the spark of fun that elevated earlier ventures, but Jonathan Majors Kang is a thrilling villain posted to the, excuse me, poised, to alter the course of the MCU.

While the score will likely fluctuate over the next few days, as things stand, this makes quantum media only a second-ever Marvel Studios films to drop to rotten, at those internals at 47. disappointing, but the MCU has proven to be a critic proof to a large extent as A&MENT 3 is projected taken as close to 280 million worldwide this weekend. Do you guys plan on catching Amin? Yada, yada, yada, yada. All right.

So we can, again, we'll do non-spoiler kind of thoughts and things. We all have our non-spoiler reviews up and have talked about it on other shows and people know. So when I came out of this movie, I my out of the theater reaction was like, look, this is about as science fiction as you get. It's chaotic at times. It's loud

at times. It gets and it kind of gets unraveled, but to me I felt like it kind of pulled itself back together at the end and ended itself with a nice bow. I enjoyed it because I like seeing different kind of science fiction. This is the most science fiction out of all the Marvel movies, even more so than Guardians. Yeah, because you don't, with Guardians,

you don't really explore the worlds as much. Yeah, I mean, but it's still, it's like a science, I mean, they're both kind of science fiction fantasy for sure, but there's, someone had commented on my thing, well, I don't know if this is science fiction. I was like, well, all the quantum physics, stuff they talk about. This is science fiction. And the creatures and the character designs. Yeah.

But it's also, but it's, I can also see what someone would, would say that it's science fiction fantasy as well. That's why you see what I was telling you guys, there was elements of Star Wars, and there's elements of Dune and Strange World and Blade Runner and all these different things and John Carter from Mars. There's like all these different things that they incorporated. But I will say that all of the criticisms, like the real criticisms that I have seen from this movie, I agree with. I agree with. There's nothing. There's, there's, Sometimes you see a movie and you go, I don't know what movie these people were watching. There's a turn to us, I felt.

Like most of the criticisms of the journals, I didn't agree with it. Right, but right. I mean, there's some that's a little too long or something. It's not perfect, but there were like more logic-based critiques here. I would watch this movie a thousand times in a row than to ever watch Thor Love and Thunder again. It is definitely better than Thor Love and Thunder. I thought so, too. And I also feel like the issues I have with this, for me personally, and this is going to stay non-spoiler,

but the issues for me aren't until the third act. and I enjoyed the first two acts enough that I'd want people to see it. And that's what I was trying to get across to people is that you can think something doesn't work, but you can think it has merit. And you can think that there is enough in the beginning to justify the end while still being like,

this doesn't land enough for me to say it's good. Like I consider this in that C, C minus, may I C minus C minus range? C minus, I mean, that's a, that's a, that's a, yeah, so you're in the rotten. I saw it, I saw it a second time. And the solutions are so obvious to me that it dropped actually because of me going like,

that would fix this, which I'll discuss. But I definitely found that it is below average. So to me, the bell curve is a C is an average film, C plus slightly above average, B is good, A is exceptional. So it's just below average. So it'd be like a 70, 69 thereabouts. So that's the other thing, by the way, that people don't realize.

We always try to reiterate how rotten tomatoes works, right? Rotten Tomatoes is, it's just a whole bunch of people who give their scores. And if you have, let's say you think it's okay. You don't think it's terrible. You think it's okay and you give it a, whatever it is, a 2.9 instead of three, right? That is a rotten score now. Even if you think it's okay.

So it includes into the rotten score. So if you, some people, this is horrible. That includes into rotten score. It's fine. I'm not going to give it. I don't think it's, I don't think it's terrible. So I'll go three. That adds to the fresh where you don't think it is like, like when you see all these

fresh reviews, like if someone, a lot of times, if something's like at 99%, you're like, oh, everybody loved it. There were probably a couple of reviews in there that said, it was good. Yeah. And so that's how it all works. So there's a lot of people who may think that in this rotten that think it stinks. And there's a lot of rotten that maybe just couldn't, like you said, C minus or so you can yeah.

But Winston, because you came out of it, it's kind of like I did thinking it was just kind of a crazy science fiction ride. Yeah. I initially came out of the film just being like, I really enjoyed this as far as what's going like I took a buddy of mine to the screener and he did not but that's because he doesn't keep up

with everything so he remembers the other two Ant-Man films but he doesn't and he's seen all of the MCU but it's not something he visits a lot and he doesn't know anything about the comic so like the post-credit scenes he saw them and he was like what does that mean and what does that mean?

So for him he spent a lot of time being like he's a writer he was like there was too much Inside baseball Yeah Yeah And I get it And I was like

That's the problem That's the problem That they're at right now And without getting into any Spoiler stuff I didn't love How Hope felt like She got regulated

To the back of the bus Like that seemed weird For her to be the second name In the movie Roxy and I talked about that On the show yesterday It's called Ant Man and the Was She's barely in the movie

She's got something to finally do And when she does it's significant in. But Roxy made a great point. She goes, well, if they called Michelle Fifer the Wasp, then it's accurate. Absolutely. And Michelle Fiver's great in this movie. Exactly.

She was the MVP for me. Yeah. Jonathan from me, but I, but, but it was it was so off-putting. You head out of his shot, will you? I just saw it. I'm going to, hold on, go to the line. Go to the line. Go to the line. Go to the line.

You want to see how immediately got my bottom position, this is where I'm at now. Oh, this is. Yeah, you see this? I pivoted. That's Winston's penis. It's just like reaching over. Just a little mind the balls.

You see that? All the way to the other side of the screen. It's why I'm going to the wad. Snake the toilets, with it. I'm getting the wad. This is for him. So, so.

I love that it's bouncing. That makes sure that it's a whole motion. I know, right? Go ahead. There you go. Anyway, so, so honestly, for Evangeline and Lily on top of that,

to make a comment about, I think it's time to have a wasp movie. And I was like, how? When you literally weren't really in this last one, that to me was the only thing that when I came out of it, because I have this tendency to just shut my brain off whenever I watch a movie and I just try and take everything in. So I'm sure watching it a second time, I will feel less about it. But that was the one glaring thing that I think was so upsetting that there's a big moment in act three with her

where I was like, this was not earned. No, I agree. And, well, here's the funny thing is that out of the three of us, I probably seem like, you know, for me, because science fiction is always, like you lean into the science fiction, you're going to catch my attention, right? And I think of the three of us, maybe I enjoyed it the most. However, I have no need or intent. I talked to Koi on the front of the day. I was supposed to go to that same screening he did. And I'm like, I don't, I don't, yeah, it's not like I'm not rushing out to see this movie again.

It's like, I enjoyed it. I like seeing the science fiction side of it. There were some moments I really duck. I thought Jonathan Majors was fantastic. I'm glad I want to see more of him, and I'm glad that he's the guy that they're leaning on. And people really don't listen, though. I can see where you tweet as much as you do.

But what I was saying inside of my review is that they're certainly setting him up to try to topple Thanos. He's not better than Thanos, man, shit up. And I'm like, we haven't any time to spend with him there. I was just telling you that they're setting him up to do that. Thanos is the goat, for sure, at least in my opinion. Yeah. I think him and Vader are like cinema.

I'm talking about it in MCU. But I'm saying in cinema, like, I would put him in the same work, not saying he's better than Vader, but he's in the category of greatest villains of all time. Yeah, because, I mean, he had to do, there's, yeah, what he did for sure. You're not touching Thanos any time soon. But there's stuff that they set up in this. And I thought it was, I thought it was a good kickoff to phase five,

because what it did well is I thought it set the stakes of who this guy is. And what they're going, now, you might not like this particular movie, but when he shows up again after this movie, you're going to go, oh, wait a minute. that's wow there he is again this guy and so that's that to me that they succeeded there and I think that the I'm very curious what the audience is going to say though because now the audience because the critics didn't love Eternals and the audience was on the board on the same board as the critics because we I get a lot of times when we the three of us all liked Eternals

and I get comments all the time I thought I was the only one who liked Eternals yeah there's like a quiet little and then we live on our own island yeah we live on our own island yeah we live on our own island that I understand that for sure but now I'm wondering if this is going to be one of those ones that because sometimes the critics are on the different island than the audience now I I do think this is going to be more of eternal thing I think there's going to be a ton of people who don't like this movie at all um science fiction wise though man you got me there's yeah no for sure I think I think the only other critique that really got me but then I think the rest of it I vibed with pretty well I didn't really understand some of the power scaling we'll get more into that with the yeah I think this is a movie

that's really tricky to non-spoiler quantify the issues of because most of my issues are in the third act, therefore, like, but that is what I had, and I also think that there is a certain element of, um, how to quantify this, of tonal issues in the third act that undermine the first two, because I really enjoyed the first two having a lot of,

a strong creativity, the character design, the sci-fi elements, the visuals, all of that was really stunning, but then the third act was like, we're going to keep that, but we're going to do a very linear thing with it.

And I was like, oh, so good at being weird and you just kept the weird imagery but then it got very not weird. Yeah, and I know again, I'm going to be in my own island here. I like this better than the second one. Oh, wow. Yeah, only because it's, and I think I, and I know that I'm going to be the only one saying that because the reason why is that I just felt like it had the same issue that I initially had with Guardians and I watched it again recently felt the same way. It's good, but the problem is that it's just like everybody, it's, it's on my lower tier Marvel movies

because it's like everybody has a joke. It's just a full-on comedy. This had comedy in it, but it was at the right moments. I really liked the comedy in this more than I expected to be honest. It was at the right moments. And then there's the character. People, and again, spoiler is going to be coming on Monday,

but what I will say is in the trailer, and you've seen it, they show Modoc in the trailer and without getting into it. What I'm very curious about is I don't have any attachment to Modoc. I didn't know, from the comics. I didn't know anything about them. So, and I mentioned this to you when we spoke, I am just very curious

how people are going to respond because his backstory is different than it is here. But it also is significant to the trilogy itself. But what I will say is this. There was a particular moment that I felt it was the only time

and it was with Modoc and it was towards the end. You guys know it's a very funny line and it got the biggest laugh in the theater. But I said, was that the time to do it? because I know it's funny.

I think I know what you're talking about. And I, and I, I, I, I, I, I, I thought it was funny. Everybody did. I thought it was the time to do it. Actually, that's one of my favorite. Wait, that might be my favorite. Wait, we'll, we'll talk about the, but I, Modoc was the MVP, uh, surprise MVP for me.

Like, I knew I love Jonathan Majors. I knew I'd love, uh, Michelle Pfeiffer because I heard she did a lot, but I didn't think I'd love Modoc. And like, Modoc totally worked for me as, as, as the surprise of the film. Like, and I think that's maybe the most polarizing character. Like, I've seen like, like, like, Perry, hated mowedoc. I love moda. But he, but the funny thing about that is I will give Peyton Reed and and are we allowed to say the actor since he's on on like I'd leave it alone for now.

I leave it alone for now. Okay. So the actor and Peyton read I think really nailed it because from every source that I've seen of modoc, whether it be animated or in the books or video games, he is both simultaneously extremely smart and deadly, but kind of a putts. Yeah. And so they'd really nailed that. Yeah, from what I read, I read up on it afterwards, too. And from what I read, the actual, the actual character seemed, they seem to stay true to what the character was. It's just the actual backstory and origin of that character is significantly different.

Now, I, as a, I, but what I'm saying is I don't care because, like, I didn't read it. But I do know that if there are certain things that I do read and certain things, I'm like, I don't know why they change that. I don't know why they did that. But I don't know, but we'll get into all that. But otherwise, look, this is a. they said it in the article here. This will not be a reflection on the box office, though.

The box, and what I do think, I actually think it's going to be one of those things where people are not going to go, all of the critics, it's mixed here. I don't, I'm not going to see this movie now.

I think this is going to be like, I want to judge for myself. I'm curious why they don't, yeah. I think it's going to be, I want to judge from myself, but I don't necessarily think that means, well, the critics are wrong. I think there's going to be a lot of people

who don't like this movie. And I, and I really do. I think that, and as I was saying, like I, there were two movies, by the way, that Perry and I both saw, and that is this and Creed 2. Three. Creed 3. And reading and reading those, well, she saw Creed 2 too. Shut up.

Years ago. We disagreed. Yeah. No. She tweeted out her thoughts on it. And I liked both movies more than her, but I agreed with her criticisms on both of them. understood the criticisms. Sometimes I've been on a different page of Perry. I'm like, I don't know what she's talking about with that particular thing. Her criticisms on both those inside of her tweets

were extremely accurate, but it's just a matter of how you perceive them. And how much you weigh those particular things. Because I had the same thing with Roxy with her loving quantum media. I agree with everything she had to say. But the things she loved, I didn't think outweighed the things I didn't like. So I'm, I can go like that. I agree with, but still feel how I feel. And I think that's what people don't understand about the movie going experience. Like a movie is you interpreting the art that someone else's positioning. You watch things differently. And that's because your life has been different. So like you can't go, ah, my 30 years of existing, this equals this, and then expect that critic to feel the same. So people getting mad at Rotten Tomatoes is is patently

ridiculous just because of the concept of experience. Right. Well, it's interesting that you mentioned that because I think, and this is not to say that this is some sort of stoner comedy, but there are, because there's obviously very psychedelic drama, but this, this, this, this, this definitely because of the color palette, because of the world and the way that it's built out, like I wouldn't go watch Star Wars Stones. Like, I mean, I would now, because I've seen it a million.

Sure, sure, but I have the jump. But like this, on a first or second watch, this is a movie that feeds into that purely because there are a lot of trippy moments. Yeah, of course. Because of what the quantum verse is. I definitely think that people that have done psychedelic training get more out of it.

Like, I definitely enjoyed elements of it more because I like mushrooms and acid and things. So I think there's definitely an element where creativity and the set, and all those things that fuel the comic book psychedelic movement are going to enhance the movie and then back to the audience that have done that. Gouch, by the way, I really loved, again,

with not getting into specifics, but there is a canteena scene in a very Star Wars. People forget, someone wrote to me the other day, and they go, do you think you obviously see Peyton Reed do Star Wars? I'm like, he did. He directed the Luke Skywalker episode. I didn't realize that. Oh, that's cool.

Yeah, people don't realize that. Peyton Reed directed Mandalorian. So he took some of that with him into quantum room. I thought as a science fiction movie, he did a good job. But yeah, I'm very curious to how it's going to play in the box office,

but now I throw it to you guys. Let me ask you the question. You know, if you were planning to see quantum mania, has this mixed review from everybody changed your opinion on wanting to go see it? Are you now saying yourself, you know what, I don't know if I want to see it anymore or is it like we said?

No, I want to judge it for myself and I want to check it out. Put it in the comments. Let me know exactly what you think. You know what I liked it more than. I liked it more than multiverse of madness. Me too. I had a very similar issue with it as multiverse of madness, which is really interesting.

I'm excited to talk about that. Here's the thing, though, with that movie is that, as we've mentioned before, now, any Ramey head right now listening to what you just said is throw bows and going nuts, right? And I understand that. If you're a Sam Ramee fan, of course.

Sam Ramey delivered on a Sam Ramey movie. If you're not a big same room, you feel like we do. And it's like, another movie I don't necessarily need to see. I don't necessarily need to see quantum mania again, but it's more in that science fiction Star Wars thing. I told you, my 11-year-old, when we went to see it, I took her to see the movie. She turned to me at one point.

She was, hey, Dad, this is a Marvel movie or Star Wars movie? And I was like, okay, that's, but you feel that. I mean, that's like the Batman with a more whimsical Batman. I think they're about to get it with, you know, the Brave and the Bowl. but everybody was like, why did they always have to be so dark and gloomy and all these things? And like, as a Fincher fan, I think Matt Reeves made that love letter very clear. And that's what I wanted, but I understand also people that don't like The Batman, because I'd rather an artist be specific.

I'd rather the art we get be charged in a certain way. And I also think that maybe not everything being for everybody is the way we keep it fresh. Yeah, well, you got a new Batman movie coming out. And by the way, it's called The Flash. We didn't, we didn't. Yeah, we haven't talked about it since. We should actually, we'll transition to that. We'll talk about the flash because that wasn't on my news stories,

but I realized that as we're talking about, like the three of us have about it. I haven't even talked about it yet. And the Guardians trailer, too. So we'll talk about both those trailers in a minute, but I also wanted to tell you guys, by the way, let's talk a little bit about Athletic Greens, man. I love it. I love Athletic Greens.

I've been talking about it forever. And it is just so amazing because I've been using it every day. You guys know we have, I mean, it's literally is one of the only things sponsors we have on the show. Sorry, Manscape, but they're in my bathroom. It's, I love it, and it's so good. I just, I take it, I shake it up on my, in a water bottle, and I got it. I was talking about the other day when I did a set at flappers, and I needed a little boost.

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I love Athletic Greens. I always put, and I pin now, our sponsors on our first comment. So if you're always wondering, well, how do I help out the show? How can I help out the show? Not only can help out the show. You can help out yourself and make your life better here by getting athletic greens do it let the english see you do it all right Vincent still doesn't get that reference um no go watch it pretty far will you heathen one day look man i was about to go watch a rocket movies you told me not to because reasons i don't remember it was something about you wanted to film me watching it in my reactions or something i can't remember anything um it's only eight of them it's fine yeah i was on with roxy yesterday my

my mind was mush because my, it's the first day today was, my daughter today, my father, the little one woke up at 640, thank God. No, no,

no, that's late. Oh, she's been weekend about 5.30, the last, oh, yeah. So my mind was mush.

So, so Roxy was talking about Valentine's Day. It was, when we taped it? It was the day before. And she, and I was like, when was Valentine's Day?

What was that? She was yesterday. And I go, really? I said, checks out. And, but my mind,

just completely. We taped Sith counsel at the same time. Mike's like, what's what's going on with you words today? It was bad. What did you guys do? Do anything? I mean, we don't have to talk about it. We just did kind of a chill thing. My wife and I, I was talking about I got her the AirPods

because she had washed them in the laundry. Yeah, so she's been bummed that. So we just did that. We just kind of hung out at the house and had a little meal. I was going to take her to lunch, but she was just she needed some rest. Yeah, but Other than that.

All right, let's get into the, what I'll do here is bring up the Batman, again, the Batman trailer, Flash trailer. Flash trailer, man, it hit on Sunday, and it was, it stole the Internet, man. We thought we were going to get all these trailers. Some people thought you didn't get all these. Yeah, we talked that night. We were like, I guess we're done. I guess that's all right.

That was it. And you really only got two big comic book movie trailers. and that was The Flash and Guardians. I guess we can talk about Guardians first because, I mean, there's really not too much to talk about with Guardians. Kind of built on what we had already. Yeah, they didn't give, like, I think that I like, one of the things, and we'll talk about this in the spoiler review for Ant Man,

the trailers were bad for Ant Man. They gave away too much. Oh, yeah. Way too much. And Guardians is doing the opposite. I think James Gunn has a lot more control. That's my point. Yeah.

Is that the trailers so far have given me just about an emotional level. There's a couple things that I'm like, I hope that isn't what I think it is. Like there's certain people crying over things and things. And I think this is what it is. But I hope that I'm wrong. But the trailers, good. I loved the, like, it was a perfect blend of the Guardian's humor with the mix of the story. Like the Nebula, by the way, you talk about somebody with a 180 for me.

I did not like that character and did not like what Karen Gillen was doing in the beginning. And I love her now. I think she's one of the MVP's the entire MCU. Between Infinity War and in game And what she's able to do in the Guardians films Which is a very different type of humor Than even the broader endgame in Infinity War And keeping the character that if played incorrectly

Is stoic in a boring way Instead, she's able to bring so much life To being drool. And like I think Karen Gillen is one of the best actors In the whole thing. She's been great lately. She's been absolutely phenomenal. I mean, I think both, I highly suggest

If you did not watch the holiday special You need to. Oh, I love this one. No, no, I know you have. I'm talking about anybody that's watching this. Because even with, she maybe has three lines in the whole thing. She kills it. Her last line.

Well, there's a particular line that she has that gun road. That's such gun humor. But her, how stoic she is when she nails this humor. And she does it in this trailer. This trailer at the end with him. It's the comment about potentially Star Lord and her dating. Hilarious. It's so funny.

And that's, I agree with you because she can on a dime go to full blue. lone assassin. Yeah. And, but then also deal with this, like there's a lot underneath the surface, which is what's really

drawing to her. And what I like about her characters, her character has had a great arc thus far, right? When you look at everything that she's done, that character has done, and just kind of be in this, mm,

mm, the whole time to actually being able to nail this humor and being part of the girl, and being loyal to it and having that moment in end game where she is the kind of the savior and has to take herself out in order to,

you know, really had this relationship with her sister i think she's had the her that character has had the most growth so they she's allowed to be like this comic relief now because we've gotten a lot of the arc should probably have a little bit more now to do with gomora and everything else too but but i i don't know and like i love the idea that gomora he what does he say he hasn't does he call her a dick what does he says something about about he's like you were yeah she's like that's that's that's not quite accurate because yeah something like that he kind of calls her an a hole or something and which is that that relationship is going to be fun to explore too.

So I liked this trailer. I thought it was, I saw a couple people said that they thought it was underwhelming, but I don't agree. I thought it was a pretty, that was a pretty good trailer. Trailers just need to remind you to go see the movie. They shouldn't give you the movie.

This is reminding you why you love these characters, giving you just a little bit of new stuff. Yeah. But I don't want to know the third act. And I feel like we are getting, Marvel does this thing where they give you the announcement trailer, a trailer with story,

and then the full, the second full trailer is like the third act. And then the week of the movie, it's like here's every scene in different orders. So I hope they change that as they're changing everything. One of our news stories is how they're changing everything. Change the trailer. I was going to say, man, like I, the only way doing something like that works is if everyone in your movies is three hours.

Yeah. And so like you could get away with it with Wakanda forever because it really was very surface. But a lot of these, you're right. They've been just giving the whole farm away. And that's not. The TV spots are the worst for it. Because they'll give you like moments. I don't either.

Yeah, I wait until after I've seen. the movie, then I go back and go like, geez, I'm glad I missed that. So I didn't watch a lot of TV spots for the Super Bowl, by the way. I didn't watch a lot of them. I didn't watch the indie one because I want to go in fresh. Yeah, I mean, that was really one of the only ones I did watch. Was it good? Yeah, it's good.

But I didn't do any reactions or anything to them because it was like this 35, 40 seconds. It's not worth it. It's not really, I like to review it afterwards. I don't want to just do, no, no shade to anybody who just does the reactions, but I wanted to do like a full review afterwards. And 45 seconds is what am I going to say? Oh, he's jumping out of a plane. He's younger.

Yeah, right. And that was barely. But it was the only two full trailers was that. Yeah. And then the Flash. Ooh. Oh, man. Listen, this Flash trailer, we've been talking about this movie, the three of us on this show for months.

And we've talked about what we have heard and how good it, people have seen it, how great it's been. I talked to my friend again who had seen it last year and he talked about how great it was. And he said that Keaton stole the show. Well, Keaton steals the show in the trailer. Yeah. And what was so great about this trailer was when I thought it was a really good job of building up the anticipation to Keaton, but also showing you exactly what the story is. Because I didn't, I mean, I don't think that Ezra Miller should continue as the flash after this. I think that, as I've mentioned, many times over, I think that they should get the work that they need.

I think that I don't believe that the career should be canceled. I mean, they should do an absolute investigation to find out everything that's true and everything that's false. That's all, but I just think too much baggage. Close this movie out. I think that they set up in the trailer that they can do that because they go, why do you, Keaton says it, what do you want to be in here for? And he's like, because I want my mom. Yeah.

She's alive here. Keep him. Pocket universe that can run parallel to James Guns. You can dip back into it at any point you want. If you need to. The way you can have that story land. Keeping the door open. Exactly.

The else world is available. And that means cavil. That means Ezra. That means whoever you want can pop. then later. But even even from the standpoint of the way that they're the route that they've decided to go with Flashpoint, because we saw Ben Affleck in the trailer as well, is that Bruce, it's not, I had that one theory that maybe they're bringing back Michael Keaton, but they're making him Thomas Wayne. Now, we still don't have proof of it one way or the other, but it seems pretty

clear that they're keeping him exactly as he was as Bruce Wayne. So if that's the case, you have literally set up that different people that are just the same character and look completely different. Yeah. You have set that up. So there is nothing that says that by the time you finish this adventure, he makes, they make,

Flash makes the ultimate sacrifice. And then all of a sudden, they're not caring Eric, but that's the first person. I know she means. There's a different, there's a different flash and, and all that.

But my point in all that to lead up to it was that they set up Barry, finding the other Barry, getting into this adventure and the, the introduction of just really laying it on God's in this movie. Here's Michael Shannon. Yeah. Oh, where you would assume that Barry must alter something and Superman doesn't interfere and Zod and the rest take over the world

and meta humans are gone or whatever might happen. It causes some garbage. I actually think that the scene with, and it is Kara, by the way, we thought it was going to be, we thought it was going to be, um, Kelle's daughter. It is not. Right, right. Yeah. Definitely the cousin. That was the that was, that was the rumor that it was, yeah. Yeah, there was, uh, Kello's daughter and not Kara. And they, they confirmed it is Kara. But I think that that, that scene. That was the thing. That was the scene in the beginning when he goes there and ship, I think Kara is there. I think that that world is not Kyle L. I think that Zod comes in with Kara because she says to him, she goes, what did you do? I think that's the beginning of the movie. Oh, interesting. I think that's the

beginning. So you think that Zod brings Kara to Earth? I think something along those lines. I think Kara is there fighting and then he sees it or whatever it might be. That's the first time they kind of meet each other. And again, this is just me guessing. But I would say that that's where he sees all this kind of, what do I do? And then, you need some help. And then that Danny Elfman music, when everything from the TV spot, and then just the way it was delivered, he's going to have a massive part in his role. Absolutely. I mean, you got the old school Batmobile.

Yeah. I thought that they would do some sort of update. And I wonder how Michael Keaton feels about it. I thought they would do some sort of update to the neck. He is right back to him. He's just back to shoulder turns. A whole body turn. 100%.

But yet somehow kicking more ass. which is what's confusing. It's like, you can't move your neck. How are you doing? That's one of my favorite things about the trailers is that it looks like Andy Mushietti did something that even with all of our different crossovers, I haven't seen any other director do,

Marvel DC anything, and that when you got teams combining, it's generally the director's vision. Like the Russo brothers direct the same in Winter Soldier as they do in Infinity War. They don't go, okay, this is a Guardian's frame. I'm going to shoot this like James Gunn. Mushietti did something I've always wanted to see someone do,

which is more like a jazz artist splash page when you've got like Jim Lee drawing Spider-Man and like Arthur Adams drawing Batman and there's different artists in a splash page. Mushietti directed the Tim Burton shots like Tim Burton. Like the Batman looked like Tim Burton framing. And when Zod came in Snyder, but then when it was Flash, it looked like Muscietti styled in it and all those things. So I loved the framing looking like an actual collaboration of universes.

So I'm really excited to see those movies meld in a new way and also blend that with the Flashpoint comic, which they're not directly adapting clearly because I think Supergirl is going to be. So in the comic book, he lands, there's no meta humans, and he discovers that Superman has been trapped in a facility. The government got him. And he basically is scrawny and emaciated because he doesn't have the yellow sun. So I'm curious if she's going to be tortured or if she comes in and she was tortured in Krypton.

Like they can still play with those elements. But we don't know if Thomas Wayne is involved because he's, that'd be cool to have Jeffrey Dean Morgan or Ben Affleck play him. But we don't know what element the darker Batman is going to play. And if that's Keaton or Affleck. Yeah, well, and then there was the one when I was reacting to it. There was the bat cycle, and I was like, is that bail? That's what I kept thinking.

Two wheels. Which is hilarious. Out of all the people, guess who pointed that out? He said, well, actually it's two wheels. So someone I was doing a show and someone goes, well, you know, actually it's two wheels, so it's probably Ben Affleck. Who said it? Say you guess. Somebody on the show?

Somebody that we, that we. Oh, my God. Was it Brett? It was Brett. Wow. Wow. You wouldn't have posed that question if it wasn't somebody off the world. Brett was the one who goes.

And I was like, yeah, it's true. That it was absolutely, it was probably Ben Affleck. Yeah. Which is true. There's that gray and blue suit looks gorgeous. But yeah, I'm excited to see this one, man. And it's the end of June. And that's going to be right where we are going to be in New York.

We'll be in New York. And then Stanford, 23rd and 24th. We're going to be in Manhattan. And then we'll be in Stanford on the 24th. The tickets aren't on sale yet. but we'll probably be doing a flash podcast, at least for myself and Winston and Coy, for the Manhattan show.

We'll probably be talking about the flash in depth that night. So once we get the tickets on sale, I'll let you guys know, and we'll probably be doing it through a new website that I'm setting up, and we're going to start to move tiers off of the Patreon onto the website, the exclusives, you know, the watch-alongs, the one-on-ones, things gradually, gradually, but I just wanted to give everybody a heads up.

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I don't know what else I can tell you. If you're going to the grocery store and you're getting those razors, whether it's on your face or on your ball bag, you're doing it wrong. I've been giving you tips for a long time on Manscape. Go to the links comment there. Help yourself out and get yourself some Manscape. All right. We'll throw it to Winston here.

Winston, I'm assuming you're going to want to do the one that we just kind of mentioned. I'll leave it to you. Let's see. We already did that one. I'm curious about the MCU worst ranked. All right. So comic book movie did a thing. Last week, it's hilarious.

They did a list. And after we talked about, we all were talking about like Jensen Eccles. And there was this whole big thing about how the potential of Vincent Nichols actually being Batman. They said with Ant Man in the Waspornamania, the latest Marvel Studios deemed rotten by critics, they are taking a closer look at the 10 worst-reviewed Marvel Cinematic Blockbusters.

Now, this is the bad ones that have ranked. Number 10 is actually the first, this shows you, this shows you how solid this franchise is. How solid a lot of the franchises have been. Number 10 is Captain America, the first Avenger, at 80%. So that's the lowest at 10. And then you got number nine and that probably, what, 77% is Thor, the first Thor, interesting. A B minus and a C plus or 10 and 9.

So far. And then number eight, age of Ultron at 76. That one I would have guessed. If you had told me which ones are in the top 10, I would have guessed that one. The other two I wouldn't have guessed. Number seven, Dr. Strange, multiversal madness is at 74%. Okay. It's number six, Iron Man 2 at 71%.

I'm surprised that that's as high as it is, be honest. I like it. But there are people that usually say that month's the worst. All right, number five is The Incredible Hulk. This is stupid. This is stupid. 67% this movie is one of my favorite ones. I love this movie, The Incredible Hulk.

67% sniff my farts. Again, I like this movie a lot. Before we get into the top five, or top four, rather, let's ask you guys. Well, let's see. So we know Eternal. is number one. Then Ant-Man. And that's foolish.

So the other two. I'm going to say three is Dark World. Yeah. And I'm going to say Four is... Ant-Man, Two? I don't think it was that. How did Guardians-Wan? Guardians-one.

Guardians-two are pretty good. Four will probably be... I just had it. Oh, man. Love and Thunder, maybe. Oh, Love and Thunder. Yeah. It might be Love and Thunder.

Yeah, it might be... It is Love and Thunder. So Dark World Love and Thunder, I think. Yeah. I think Love and Thunder, when I checked last was at 64. She said... So three of the four Thor films. What is Captain Marvel?

How does Captain Marvel not? Captain Marvel did pretty well critically. Over 80%. I made a billion dollars. That doesn't mean. No, but like I think both critically and financial. That's what I'm saying. It's not greater than Captain America?

Yeah. The first one? Yeah, yeah. That's Salai. It's not correct, but I think that is the way it is. That's a lie. That's in my bottom four Marvel films. And it does not.

It's one I also don't rewatch, which is true. So we're predicting that Forrest is, is Thor, Love and Thunder. Three is Dark World. Two is Ant-Man, Quantomania, and one is Eternal. All right, so coming in. Number four? Thor, the Dark World is 66.

Oh, all right. So what's three? Three probably is Love and Thunder, I would assume. So at three, Love and Thunder, they're both at 64%. Okay, so there's a really subjective. They're tied. Yeah, they're tied. It just depends on who has more reviews.

Two is Ant-Man, Quantumania, at 51%. And then, yeah, And then Eternals is really good for you. That is rough. Yeah, man. I mean, look, I, now I need to look up Captain Marvel.

Yeah, and while you're doing that, like I got into, I think the beginning of my, my Twitter thing, which has been discussed at length in the show, was I was saying that

celebrating failure is different than actually having criticism, critique, and celebrating failure are different. An article like this is looking at just the math of it. The thing I took issue with was people going,

something has failed, we should celebrate. Wait a minute. Hey, yeah, what is this? They were wrong. They were wrong. They were wrong. So Captain Marvel is the number 10.

So Captain Marvel is the number 10. And that brings me to my point in that I don't like that I didn't like Captain Marvel. I don't celebrate Captain Marvel not working because I like the actress. I like the pieces of it. But for me, this movie felt, you know, inexpensive and it wasn't. And it felt like the twist wasn't a twist. There was a lot of things wrong. But I would rather a movie do good. So I feel like people that are celebrating Ant Man's failure aren't. That's not criticism. And the funny thing is, I came to your defense about this because I agree with you. I don't think that there's anything wrong with critiquing something if something is bad. Right. So, like, I have been very, like, vocal about how I don't like the Medea movies. I personally think that they are, like, not good art. Has he gone to, has Medea gone to space yet?

She's been to jail twice. She's been to jail once. She's been into two different haunted scenarios. She did Christmas. But no space. No space. Come on. It's probably the day.

You've got to go to space. It's probably the next year. Yeah, come on. But there are people that like it, and that's fine. Yeah. There is nothing. I do not celebrate any losses in that camp. And in the same way, it doesn't help.

And then someone tried to kind of be like, do you see all the people that were celebrating when Snyder failed? I was like, no, no, no, no. I saw people say, this isn't good and we should stop doing it. And we should stop cowtowing to people. But I never saw people celebrate. And he was like, well, people were celebrating with things that happened with his daughter. I was like, then those people are going to hell.

That's so messed up. That's not. That's not. did not see any of that. And so this weird vitriol where people like to celebrate failures, especially knowing how much work goes into making a movie. It's one of the reasons that I stopped doing the top 10 worst list, to be honest with. I don't take it away from anybody who does them.

That's fine. A lot of people do the top 10 worstless, but I stopped doing those. I mean, I'll talk about a bad movie. See, I did one, but what I did was I did the 10 worst superhero films. And what I did was I said what worked,

what didn't, how I changed it to make it better. But I focused on this is what is very good about this film. This is where it didn't land. So I was still trying to be positive in the worst, but I know that worst gets clicks. And instead of not having people go over there, it was like, how do we reframe this to make it better?

Like I said, I'm not taking away from anybody who does those lists, but I think there's a way to present it, like you just said. But either way, so that's the ranking that they have. You can check out that list on comic book movie or the list, although no, that number 10 is actually not accurate. All right, Koi. All right, so we've got a few here that are really interesting, but I do want to stay with Marvel, I think,

and this Feigey update was way big, And I actually, like, did a, I did a one-minute speed around TikTok on it because there was way, it was very specific. So, tell us about it as you start to tell us about it, yeah. So we had Spider-Man, Deadpool, Daredevil, like a lot of my favorite characters are getting a rapid update, but it's all tied into kind of a slowdown. So I love that they're basically taking our notes in real time. Like, we're getting what we need. Yeah, just in real, that also in real time. But we're getting, like, basically Kevin Feige is, his fingers on the pulse.

He knows that the abundance of content hasn't been working. he knows that we need to slow down and basically addressing they are going to use the Fantastic 4 as the pillar of the MCU. They are going to be bringing in the X-Men and now they know how. There's just a ton of data in this small update. I have a prediction. What do you got? I think after all this, Kevin Feigey, you know,

this movie comes out of Quantum Mania. It's the second lowest. People have been kind of talking about this too much stuff right now. There is, you know, this phase four was arguably the, the worst out of all out of the phases thus far. There's a lot of it. I mean, I still, I'm not as excited.

I still like going to the Marvel movies and watching the two, but I'm not, like, excited the way I was for the first three, right? It's like, I'm waiting for like, no way home was the last one. I was like, yeah, it was great. I want to see that type of thing happen again. But my prediction is this. I think this is Fige's last run.

Five? Or six, I guess. He's got a map. I think he continues. I think he finishes out. I think he moves to Star Wars. I was wondering if that was what you're thinking. Interesting.

I think my prediction is because I had gone away from that. I had gone away and gone, nah, it ain't going to happen. I think Kevin Feige takes over for Star Wars. It is noted that he is, I think he's more of a Star Wars fan than he is even a Marvel fan. And I think, I think when you listen to him, the things that he said, he's been a big Star Wars guy. But I think this is his swan song. I think five and six are his swan song. I think he walks away and I think he takes over Star Wars.

I think I agree is a big part of a lot. allowing that. Because Iger's been very clear about like, hey, less shows, hey, quality over quantity, hey, blah, blah, blah. But in doing that, he also sees the void in his Marvel's versus Star Wars situation. He was very vocal, like, we need theatrical Star Wars. We need all this things. Someone has to run it. And if things are transitioning lower for Marvel, Star Wars is going to pick up, like it's right there. The only thing about that, and that, that's totally fine, because once five and six are over, I mean, I think the smart thing to do to kind of soft reboot everything and not to try and continue. Oh, I don't know. They're going to cover X-Men and Fantastic Four are going to probably take you into seven and eight.

Which is what, which is why what I was concerned about, if this is kind of the end after these two phases and we move into a new era, whether it's figulus or whatever's going on. I was about to get real upset that we're about to get the X-Men, just have the X-Men ripped right out for money. They got to have a 10-year plan with them, too. I feel like. And he even says in this quote that basically they've wanted to make sure they bring in the X-Men right. They've worked at it for years, and now they know how. So to me, that's a long journey, not just the origin, but the whole question. Let me read this article and we'll kind of discuss it.

But after I hit and miss phase four, the hope is that Marvel Studios will rebound. This is a comic movie again. We'll rebound with phase five. If the critical response to A man and the was quantum mania is any indication, the multiverse saga is going to continue delivering mixed results. But Figey is definitely excited about MCU's future. During a recent interview with Entertainment Weekly, the executive shared the project he's most excited about, and that's 2025's Fantastic Four.

we sort of talked about mutants in that whole aspect to the Marvel world, but Fantastic Four is the foundation for everything that came after in the comics. There's certainly been versions of it, but never in having the story of the MCU, and that's something that is exciting for us. People will start to hear more about that soon, he said, hopefully hinting at casting news. We plan on that being big pillar of the MCU going forward, just the way that they have been in the comics for 50 or 60 years.

Marvel's first family is clearly going to be front and center in the next era of MCU storytelling, something we're sure many of you will welcome. Fagie was also asked where things stand with Blade, the movie starring Maharsha Ali, and it sounds like work is progressing. It's going well. Our director, Jan Damage, is now in Atlanta. Cameras roll in like 10 weeks or so. He finished by Daredevil Born Again, a place in the MCU,

suggesting that the 18-episode Disney Plus series will be another experiment for Marvel Studios as they continue balancing stories on the big screen and small. It's Charlie Cox and Vincent Dinafrio, and they're amazing actors and storytellers in their own right. That's sort of what I was talking about with the fun of episodic television. That's really what we're experimenting with. That's Daredevil in particular. All right, there's more to it. Yeah, there was more.

He also mentioned the Marvels, when the three of them united. It was like the Avengers moment for him, like seeing them three on screen. He mentioned that Born Again is, being episodic has the power to have more individual villains, so you'll have more villains in that show. He mentioned Spider-Man 4 is locked and that they just cracked the stories. There's actually pen to paper on Spider-Man 4. he mentioned that, oh, there was one more thing. Deadpool 3.

He's really proud to a few Jackman to come back and that for the 53rd time it will be R-rated was a big little announcement. Yeah, I mean, it's, you're relying on, you know, there's a lot of stuff that he's putting out there, Winston. So what, I mean... It's like a many D-23. He was just like, I'm going to just spit out these eight things.

Yeah, I think so. And I think it's also probably the direction of it and letting where it's going to go. But I tell you, though, after what I will say, and once I want to get your thoughts on everything that was kind of announced what we talked, what I just mentioned. But if you look at from face four, even with Ant Man,

he can't be happy right now. I mean, he really, I mean, I'm not talking money. I'm not talking money. Because money, money, they make money. Because people can always say that. And I've said that as well, too. Yeah, but they're making money. Yeah, but the difference with the MCU is doing for so long,

as we just mentioned, like the lowest, the number 10 was in that list, let's say 79%. Right. It's still a high number. Oh, huge for a franchise. That's a high number for all the movies that they've done so far. Also, if you think it's just about money, number 10 being $1.3 billion. Right.

Like, if you think that's what it's about, it's not. No, but look at the, but in that list that we just mentioned, right? Thor, Love and Thunder, Dr. Strange multiverse of madness, Eternals and Quantumania were all in the top five or six. Yeah. Within the last like two each years. So they're doing something wrong with the way that they're putting together. Right.

They're not doing what they used to do. And maybe is it storytelling? Is it cast? I don't know what it is, but it's not working the way that it used to. I think what they're doing is they are, they forgot what made the magic in the first place. And I think part of that was because they stumbled into this. There was a plan. There was this idea.

But they figured it out as they went. I think what the trap that they've fallen into is the similar trap that the DCEU had, actually, is this idea of like, and then we're going to have Sicker Wars. and King's going to fight all the Avengers at the same time. You built up to Thanos coming up. That wasn't an idea you had, you maybe had it a little bit because you had Thanos kind of turn around

at the end of Avengers, but you figured that out slowly, but surely you had a plan, but it was a short plan, followed by another short plan, all by another short plan. In this case, you said, and now here is our 15-year plan,

and it was all equally important, and it's all going to come at once, and so you, as was my name, mentioned spread too thin too many ideas it feels like you lost that hunger that focus it's it's like a team that was on the drive to get that first championship and it is so much harder to get the second because you don't have the same kind of pinpoint focus no at the first time after cabeed man it's that lack of drive it was it's well that's part of it I think but there's also the idea too that I think that one of the reasons that they're scaling back like one of the

stories and we'll talk about it now including this is that Loki and Secret Invasion are the only two shows now that are going to be coming out as opposed to the four that we thought we were getting that reported that Echo was getting pushed back certainly true Armour's is a movie now. Now by

the way they said that the two guaranteed to come out this year are those two Agatha was confirmed for this year. Yes they're pushing that back. Oh wow that's a really good point so that's not like Agatha and Daredevil right? No daredevil was supposed to come back for like another year or two. Because they're still being it for like eight months.

Okay. So then, so then that pushes back what if, because that was season. Yeah. But I think it's a good move. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Because that's another thing. There's a lot of it. And you said about your friend before, right? There's a lot you have to keep up to. And like the once, I mean, and I usually am on, when,

when Fikey says certain things, well, yeah, that makes sense. The one thing he said that I was like, what are you talking about, guy? When he was, when he said that,

oh, I don't think you need to watch Wanda Vision in order to know what's going on in Dr. Strange multiverse of madness, you're crazy. Like, you'd be so confused about, like, why is she bad now? Well, I think the team that made it should have watched Rwanda Vision a little bit more. I agree.

It should have been more. I mean, the funny thing about it is you technically don't have to, but it's, it genuinely is. It enhances it. A thousand percent. Yeah, and that's the thing, though, is that, like, where it is, and this has been one of the criticisms by a lot of people after watching Quantummania was that this is a,

full-on TV show now. Like everything, like even the post-credit scenes are setting up things that continue to happen. As much as they like to say that, no, I was always planned. Setting up Ironheart in Black Panther, Wakana Forever was setting up another TV show. So that character was,

my opinion, thrown in there to set up this ongoing things. Oh, yeah, that's, I remember her from the movie. Did you see her screen test with Chadwick? No.

It just came out. It was so beautiful. I got, because we never got to see Chadwick. Oh, not Letitia. You're talking about with Dominic. Dominic, yeah. So Dominic Thorne, like, did a screen test with Chadwick. And, like, I don't know why, but I never thought my, in my brain, I never thought they got to meet. Right. Because we didn't see them together. So it was this really beautiful moment where I got to see the characters that I know connected a very special way.

It was it was a really beautiful screen test. There's cool. There's something like therapeutic about a last moment with them. Well, there was, and the other thing I just saw was when Mushietti had hired. It was probably came out a while ago. Oh, dude. So cool. When he hired Sasha for the role of, uh, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, and the. Supergirl. And he gives her the role and he asks for you. He says, he said, he's a question I have. You know, I got to ask you another question. I'm just been thinking about the whole time. And he goes, can you fly? And she's like, what do you mean? Like, can I get there? And she said, no, can you physically fly? She's like, I will if you need me to? And she's like, well, what are you? Like, no, of course not. He goes, well, will you wear this? And he plays up the Supergirl.

And then in this video that I saw, they put like the Superman music behind it. And she was like, it was pretty great. So, yeah, like moments like that. It's pretty awesome. all this like worth it and that's what I don't think is lost. A lot of people are complaining about fatigue, which admittedly I'm feeling for the first time. But there is those moments. Like in Ant Man, for example, when we finally see Jonathan Majors in the suit,

it is such a moment. And I don't think if we have a moment a month, that's healthy. I think it is better to have two shows this year. The movies that are already coming out, spread a lot a little bit. Yeah, I like that they're pulling back. I think that you pull back,

I think it'll have more impact for it too because I think that having that much if you're going to have that many movies, also that's I mean it's it's a lot to keep because it could because of the idea that you have to keep up with it all yeah I don't I do not I mean yes you're right you can watch these movies and say you know like okay I understand that too but it enhances it if you watch everything and it's like I'm my daughter right before we saw quantum media I had her watch Loki like she wasn't all caught up with everything because there's no chance we could catch up with everything right because we we got we she watched we finished end game we finished um WandaVizio right and then it was there was a couple other ones that were coming up and she's like well which one should I watch before and I was like you should watch Loki because you don't necessarily have to like because he who remains is significantly different from Kang however if you do watch that you understand the significance of what happens at the end of that show they they brought so much

from Loki into quantum mania as far as like there's a very pretty pretty There's plenty. There's plenty there. There's a discussion that he, who remains has that's important about Kang, which is, that's not a spoiler because we know Kang is in this movie. So there's plenty said about Kang. Yep.

There's plenty said about timelines. There's a lot there that is important. And it does, you don't need it to see quantum media, but God doesn't make it so much better. It enhances it. Technically you can watch Empire without new hope, technically. But like you should watch that.

Yes, but what? But here's the thing, though. Who's that Vader guy? But this is also one of the reasons why the scale back works, because for the casual viewer, for the John Pinto's of the world, it is very hard for people to watch all this stuff. Yeah. We do it.

We watch all this stuff, not only because we enjoy watching it, but because it's work. Right. Right. And it's like, it's a lot. It's a lot.

And so by pulling back, you allow yourself to kind of set up. But this is why my prediction goes to, he gone after five and six. He gone. I don't disagree. Here's the other thing that I think is really important. So I know both of you guys know this about Disney.

Disney is infamous. They're up there with HBO that if it does not meet their standards, it's the axe. It doesn't matter if they spent years working on something. They'll just kind of ice it. That's the one thing that's actually been really interesting about the MCU. It felt that way pre-Infinity War and Endgame. It felt like that TLC, even though the movies were coming out pretty rapidly, there was a lot of like eyes on to make sure certain things were under there.

I don't get that feeling right now. And a lot of that I think is because we've had too much. There's too much to kind of keep an eye on. I just also feel for Kevin Feigey. He's the guy overseeing the shows and overseeing the movies. Too much. There's just an amount of hours in the day. Like he's doing more than the rock.

Like there's just so many things. It's crazy. How much stuff he's worth. At once. And it's because. And it's because of the like he's got to have his. I mean, he can't be more than 501, 52 years old. The only reason why I ask is because, like, I know you said after this he's moving on to Star Wars.

After this, I would retire, bro. He's made so much money. I know he does, but you've made 49. Okay. You just made so much money. And like you said, this man is stressed. I know he loves it, but this man has to be stressed. But this is, this goes back to my sports analogy, right?

Is that the thing is, like, you look at, I'll use Boston, you know, you're not a big baseball guy, but like Theo Epstein is what I want to use all the time. Theo Epstein became the GM of the Boston Red Sox and took them to their first title in 80-some odd years, whatever it was. And then he left. They won a couple titles. And then he went to Chicago. And they won their first World Series in however many years it was.

Now, Star Wars has a bunch of championships. When you look at monetarily, there's no doubt about it. But as far as that kind of, I don't know, overall love and connectivity and community that the Marvel cinematic universe have for those first three phases, Star Wars hasn't had that in a long time. So if Fige can jump to it because the difference is this too, and I said this about Star Wars Celebration the other day on Sith Council,

the problem is that when you get Kathleen Kennedy up there making an announcement at D23 or Celebration, it feels like a suit reading the prompter and say, well, this is what we came up with the boardroom, this is what they wrote for me and this is my announcement. When Fagie gets up there and he's telling everything, It's just like, this is him geeking out with it going, oh, my God. What if we do this? And guys, we've got this coming out. And ladies and gentlemen, Charlie Cox and Vincent Navarre.

He gets, like, all jazzed up about it. And, like, if you get him to do that, guys, I came over, and he would give props to Kathleen Kennedy, as he should, be like, what Kathy did and everything too. But now I get to come over and I get to play in the Star Wars sandbox. And I got a chance to do what we did over at Marvel over at Star Wars. And here's the plan that we kind of all grade with with the great minds over there. And he just, he knows how to present it. The reason I think he doesn't retire is, and this is a shameless name drop, it's coming, and you're going to give me crap.

But whenever I've talked to Kevin Feige, he cares about the fan. Oh, my God. At Comic Con's and World's time. No, no, this is relevant, is that he cares so much about the fan experience that he asks about what I've heard from the fans. He doesn't just go, like, what did you think of this? You individually, like, when I introduced him to Greg and John, he asked what the comments were about the Hawkeye reactions. So not only does he care about the fan experience that's from us, he cares about, like, the minutia, but knows better than to read it himself.

Whatever like that barrier is. So I think the reason he stays is, I don't know that he's going to find, even in retirement and rest, that connectivity that he clearly goes for. Like, he likes the actual connecting. And he's 49. I mean, look, again, speaking of Kathleen Kennedy, Kathleen Kennedy's got to be 68. And maybe that's not true. Maybe she's 65.

Let me see. Maybe I'm wrong. Let's see how old Kathleen Kennedy is. I think if I was a guess, I'd say six. She's almost 79. She's almost 70 years old. Okay. Now, if someone's going to retire,

it could potentially, and I don't think she's retiring any time. So not necessarily from Lucasville. I think she's, what I think she's going to do, I think she does, I mean, people are saying that the rumors

are that she's going to retire after Indiana Jones, but not retire, excuse me, leave Star Wars after Indiana Jones, that she, that they already decided this with Disney. I don't know how true that is.

What I think's going to happen is I think that in starts, and this is all relevant to what we're talking about with Fikey. But I think that what happens is I think she's going to announce the, they said today that they're going to announce the movies or the report is they're going to have some new movies and the plan at celebration. Yeah. She's going to have her name and her stamp on those movies, on Lindeloff and all that too. She'll be a producer on it, even if she leaves. She'll be a producer on it, right? So what will happen is I think she's going to announce those movies. They're going to go into play.

her contract ends in 2025. I think the Indiana Jones comes out. It's a massive hit. These other shows come out. They're big hits for Disney Plus. She's got that movie with Linda Lof with her name on it. Walks away. That's right around the same time.

2025. We're also going to get, you know, Fantastic Four and Secret Awards and all that ends in 2025, right? The last one is that maybe the adventure. I think the last one comes out in 2026. But same thing. Fige goes, 2025. has his name on the on the credits it's like what guns doing with guardians he's got one more thing he's got to do and then he takes over when when she leaves that's my that's my prediction and that way he gets

his his fingerprints on ex-man and fantastic for like he wants sets up everything and walks away and she sets up everything and walks away should clip this out and if that happens then be a genius well not just that that someone needs to pay you they need to they they they you get to come back here like three years from now and go I told you who is the king of that was rest in peace the the sweaty man Yeah, man. John Schnepp would do that all the time. People, I can't even tell you how many times to this day, a week ago. Someone's like, he knew.

He predicted the future. And there was things that he would talk about. He talked about Kang and all that stuff. Oh, he's the biggest Modoc fan of the world. Yeah, yeah. He and Payton Reed talks about Modoc years ago. Yeah, so. Me and, the only conversations I ever had about Modoc were with Schnep

and then, like, other people telling me about Modoc's thing with Shep, to the point with that Shep had a Modoc Ice Cube Trace. So, Schnepp's ice was Modoc. So like this dude was so ahead of the curve with what was going to be popular. It's insane. But like so many people I talk to like David DeMalchon, who's I think maybe the MVP of this movie's not the surprise cast. They had a lot of MVPs,

but his work here being so different from his other work in Atlanta is delightful. That dude loved Modoc and like him and Schnepp would talk about it. So when I was watching the movie, I was still thinking of your wedding. Got it. Yeah. So I mean, so anyway, there's a lot coming, guys. A lot of very, very in depth episode of Big Thing Caps and Cowes here to. out of the stuff that we talked about, guys, what stood out?

Is it the fact that, you know, was that list? Do you believe, do you agree with us that the MCU right now, it needs a boost, need to get themselves back on track? Can they? Or is it just time, you know, hey, like all good things come to an end? How do you feel about it in general? We're going to find out as far as the box office goes. I don't think we're ending anytime soon.

But I do think that they need to get their, the quality back for sure. Um, Coy, where can I find you? Uh, I'm finding on YouTube trying to grow that beast. Made a really fun video yesterday about Kevin Feigy and Superman and how Superman pretty much informed the MCU. I'm trying to build that more over there.

Find me on Twitter, Instagram, TikTok, all at Coy Jondro. My name spelled like my name. Winston. Yo, yo, yo, at the Swaggy Blur. Do you see me right there underneath my name. Uh, got stuff over on my YouTube channel as far as like reviews and comedy stuff. We're doing a, uh, a podcast, uh, about Bel Air season two called Watch the Throne. definitely come and check that out

as well as a new comedy podcast I haven't announced quite yet but that is coming very soon as well so yeah come find me what's up all right and as I mentioned you guys earlier we're going to be doing some stuff live events we're looking to do one in L.A hopefully in April and then

we will be moving to doing some stuff in New York June 23rd June 24th Manhattan on the 23rd Stanford on the 24th once I have those tickets on sale I'll let you know ASAP All right guys thank you so much and to the great wicked art for doing this intro and outro, I guess it is.

It's capes and cows, everybody. We'll see you in the flip side. Peace.