The Kristian Harloff Show - Dr. Strange in the Multiverse of Madness SPOILER Discussion

Episode Date: May 9, 2022

Follow on Twitter Kristian Harloff https://bit.ly/31PePMD Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Progressive is America's number one motorcycle insurer, so we understand motorcycles. No, really, we have a bike translator. Okay, so this bike says she is struggling with her place in the motorcycle community. Well, she says she hasn't peaked yet, but she's having a little epiphany, okay? Oh, that maybe life itself is the peak. Interesting. In my experience, I found that. So I just translate. Not allowed to have opinions. Got it. Quote with Progressive and see if you could save with America's number one motorcycle insurer.

Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliator. What's going on, everybody? We're live. You're live. Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. Live. I think we're live.

We're going to find out soon if we're live. Anyway, let's get this going. Let's get this started. It's the big thing. And we're going to do a big spoiler heavy review here today on the big thing. And it's me. Yeah, that's right. It's me.

Who else you expect? Two finger toots? Nope. We got a lot to talk about. because here's what happened and why we're doing this live today. Coy came in. We had a really good conversation. We talked about an hour and 15, hour and 20 minutes.

And we just kept on talking about stuff with Dr. Strange. And we did a good job. And then I wanted to get some stuff on my computer. I wanted to clear it all up. And I deleted the file. I'm not going to lie to you. And I deleted the file. But the good news in all this was two things.

One, at the time we shot that spoiler review, Winston hadn't seen it, and we couldn't figure out how to get us all in a room together in last week to do it. So we said, all right, we get Winston back. So that's big A plus number one. And part two is like, well, hell with it. Let's just do a live show. We'll do a live show. And yes, to prove it, senior nerd, it is live.

Look at that. We're live. We're doing a live show. We haven't done it. So here's how it's going to work. We're going to talk about Dr. Strange. We're going to break down everything we can. And then throughout the duration of the show, we're not doing stream labs and we're not going to do robots, but we are going to do super chat.

So if you send in super chats, I will collect them throughout the show. And at the end of the show, the end of the show, I will, I will put the, I will read them all off and we'll end the show that way. Yes, Felix, it is long. just to prove to people so let's do it it's the big thing it's me it's winston it's koi let's do it oh that's the wrong theme song but that's fine you know what works for me no it doesn't welcome back what's up everybody welcome back it's live it's coy it's winston what's going oh man good intro right winson bro tell it can tell it's live by the chaos they don't see this side all the time that we experience.

If they, they get, they get the friendly one that has the least amount of chaos. Whatever we normally do this. Over under 75,000 times someone says, is this live? We just got another one from Bryce Turner. Wait, is this live? This is not. We're doing, we're doing live today.

Now, how long we continue to do live? We'll continue to, what we're going to see. I think that we're going to try a new structure here. And maybe we fell into something, gentlemen. Maybe we fell into something that if we, if this turns out to be a really fun show that we, we decide we like to do live, then maybe we'll do live. I don't know, but we got to see.

I'm like, I'm going to do a, um, we'll do our discussion. And at the end of it, like I said, I'm going to collect all the super chats. And if we have enough of them that makes sense to continue to do live, then we'll do life. Um, all right. So let's talk about this movie. Winston, I, I, even though the audience doesn't know what coy and I together think, I know what coy and I together think. I have not really spoken to you about this movie thus far.

So, um, thoughts. Um, same page as us. It sounds like it. I, it is, I will say what Koi told me I agree with. It is a mid-MCU movie for me. I think that there were some cool things that they went for there and story elements that opened up that are cool there. But it was too Sam Ramey for me. It was, it was, it was moments like doing.

the essential star wipe where you zoom in on someone's head and they walk off screen and they did green screen wipes the next set piece. It's the, I'll see you in hell and then firing like fire bolts and yeah. I mean, well, that's that's the thing is that what what I've noticed about this film and boy, even though it's been almost like a week since we did our thing, like you've talked about this movie a lot. I think you've seen it again. So I'm curious to see if your score had changed. I talked about it on my my spoiler review and I talked about about it. I'll talk about again. My my rating of this movie when I initially saw it in non-spoiler was 3.5. It's down to about 3-1-3-2 right now. For the same reasons, I think that it is an

absolute, it's a movie you should see in the theater. I think it is an in-the-the-the-tear experience. I think if you're a same Ramey fan, you're going to love this movie. I think this is made for Sam Ramey fans. I think that the style, I think that Sam Ramey style overpowers the movie sometimes, but I think as you're a same Ramey fan, that's what you want. And I think that, yes, is different. This movie does have horror elements. This movie, like, for example, like when Scarlet Witch is is contorting her body ring style through the, there's some terrifying shit going on. There's a lot in this movie that I did enjoy. It was just some of the stuff emotionally character-driven, Koi, that, that we've talked about where I, and I've had this,

I've had this debate with, in my spoiler review where people, people think that Wanda had earned her heel turn. I don't. I think that, well, at the end of it, like, well, she got the book in Wanda division. So yeah, but you didn't really show us and you had a great point about what phase we actually saw. You know what I mean? I feel like we got through like a one through six of her arc and then this movie was nine and ten of her arc and I really was missing seven and eight. So I, what I, what I struggle with is we've had this incredible pace, especially with Wanda. I would argue of anyone in the MCU other than the big three who've gotten their own movies, Iron Man, Thor, Captain America. She has the best.

arc, the best journey of an arc, and the best unheeled turn, best face turn, because she had been introduced as a villain. And then we really got the empathy, we really got the understanding of the character. So to have her go back because of something like a McGuffin, like a book,

I get what the Dark Cold is. I love the concept of the Dark Cold. I read comic books. I get what Scarlet Witch is. But if you're going to have a character that we've lived with for so long, suddenly do a heel turn on camera with a visual representation from white to red that feels as rushed as that visual representation that doesn't re-get justified later on, that's going to hurt the character and

that's going to hurt the film. My thing with this movie is that, and we agree, we're about, we're about the same where it's like, it's a B minus. It's in the lower, it's below half and it's a little lower. But I love what it represents for Marvel as a concept in that it is so director-driven. I think that is a net positive. So I think we like you just said, Sam Ramey fans are going to love this. Marvel fans are going to like this. MCU fans might not. And that is an important distinction. Those are three very different things. And I do think that the comic books are represented here, but the MCU doesn't have what the MC usually has as far as progression of tone and arcing 34 installment story. It's a lot of pushing you forward into these big moments like right away. Even the beginning

with America Chavez and all that, like when when you start out inside with ponytail strange. And all of that stuff, when, when you're there, it's like you're just kind of thrust it into it. But to jump back to the Wanda stuff, by the way, and this is to be something because we're going to talk about these post-credit scenes. And as we both agree that, and I don't know where Winston stands in this, but the, as fun as the Bruce Campbell scene is for, because for Ramey fans and everything, too, it was kind of to me, it was kind of a wasted post-credit scene. And it also makes me realize that in Shung Chi or Eternals or any of these movies, show me a dark old Wanda scene. Show me a dark old Wanda scene in a post credit scene because then I'm like, oh, well, wait a minute. If you saw that movie or post-credit inside of one of the TV shows, if you saw the movie,

that's where Wanda has been leading up to. So you probably had to go back and watch that, but at least you knew like one little scene. But Winston anyway, so just playing off of this more so with the Ramey right in the beginning, it starts off in the multiverse with America Chavez showing these doctors strange. what was your thought of the opening scene? I mean, I know you guys were like, man, like you mentioned to me, you're like, that opening scene is long. I actually did not mind all of that leading into it.

Not that. Not seeing the eyeball scene. No, no, I was considering that all part of it just because you go, you kind of go from her, them in that dimension, ponytail strange gets killed. She immediately ends up running in the middle of the city. And our strange is like, oh, I'm at a wedding. I should probably go stop this. So I kind of in my brain put it all together

But if you're talking just I'm just talking about from the second that eyeball shows up When he jumps off the thing like Superman moment That was a cool scene But then the eyeball was so rainy That it's just going on for so long The death of the eyeball was fantastic Yeah, yeah

But it just went off a bit I didn't mind that fight I actually really enjoyed that I enjoyed the beginning part too Like none of that really threw me off I think one of the things that immediately stuck out to me too is that Ramey does, and I forgot about this, he plays with color a lot.

So this was like a much brighter-toned MCU film and darker at the same time when you get to some of those darker scenes. So it put me in the mood right away. And I was like, all right, I'm here for it. Like I got really excited at the beginning of that. Coy, so we talked a lot about, I mean, we're not just talking about the negative stuff too.

We're going to talk about the positive, obviously, too. In America, China. Yeah, and she was great. She was great. And I think that what they did with her and the way that they were able to, I like that they kept her as like a child. You know what I mean? I kept her as a kid and with the pizza stuff and all that.

So what did you think about her as a character overall? So I think, you know, the casting show she at 14 is genius because you want these kids, if they're going to be young Avengers, to still be young when you make them Avengers. So I really enjoyed that she felt like a kid thrown into chaotic circumstances. And I do think she had a very, very, she had a lot of her shoulders. She was all the exposition about her entire world.

I do think that there were a lot of things that she was able to maneuver that a lesser actor wouldn't have. But at the same time, they didn't give her a lot of time to be a person. They gave her a lot of time to further the plot. One of my least favorite moments is they kind of use the barf technology in a really weird, like, on the nose, DSX Machina way when it's like, your memories for a discounted rate, blah, blah, blah. And also, they never had money. Where did that money come from? Why did they keep talking about money when they did it?

I just little things like that drive me insane. Anyway, that is the most, I think, in like four or five movies, we've seen them go like, plot. And that really drove me insane when they're like, we just met America Chavez. We were thrown into a world of enjoying her. I'm immediately endured to her because of the actress. But then you give me scenes like that where it's like,

you've got not one, but two people who can read minds. Why didn't Scarlet Witch look into America Chavez's mind to show us that memory? Why didn't Professor Xavier go, who is this girl, what is her story? Why didn't that happen with Dr. Strange? Instead, you've got some weird like blade runner cheesiness. And I love Blade Runner, but like the bad sign of that. I know what you mean, like when they showed up.

And that was one I think are a lot of people's big complaints, um, was this movie is called the multiverse of madness. And there's very little multiverse in this overall, like from the way that it was set up. And I, and I push back against people because I saw one, one guy who was like, well, you know, I think it's our expectations of, of what you expect from to be in a movie. and I think you just because you guys might have just made this movie what you wanted it to be in your head. But I'm like that you can very well say that that happens on a lot of movies and I'm not going to argue with you. But when you call your movie the multiverse of madness and your trailers are about the multiverse and playing into the multiverse and you're coming off of no way home that had a lot to do with the multiverse, you're going to have the it's inevitable that people are going to be expecting multiverse.

This movie is I think a full letter grade higher, which is substantial with. two changes. One, the marketing focuses and lets us know that it's Wanda because we all, we all kind of, like, they hid a lot of Wanda from the trailers. Instead, they showed us all the things that were supposed to be surprises. Swap that. Make it up, make the story that we're not even worried about the multiverse and you can even still call it that, but make it about the Wanda versus Strange Conflict because that's not as big of a reveal and you've got way more footage and don't show the multiversal stuff. That way those moments do feel special. And two, all you really needed to do

was give us one, and I'm not even saying for the cameos, I'm saying for the concept of the multivers, lay him somewhere else, and have the ramifications of Dr. Strange meeting of the Dr. Strange's actually hit him in the heart. Throughout the film,

I love the idea of I love you in every universe. I love the idea of the Rachel McAdams Dr. Strange thing being consistent. I love those concepts. But instead of letting us worry about what Strange would have psychologically finding out that he is not as good a guy in every universe. Instead, the movie

just sends to me in like, guess I got to figure out how to be an event. Like, it doesn't, the arc doesn't land. And that negates the whole scene where they should have had Scarlet Witch stand before the Illuminati. The Illuminati should have been concerned about the Scarlet Witch as a nexus level being. Instead, you've got Dr. Strange being tried.

And then that would have worked if there were any consequences to that. At no point do we feel like Dr. Strange actually thinks about himself, except for the brief mention of his sister when he talks about his sister dying and we realize that this Dr. Strange has more heart. But that is one scene.

You're right. And it's also a matter of Reed Richard is supposed to be the smartest guy out there. And they're like, don't worry. We can handle the witch. Yeah. I get maybe she's smaller powered in that universe, but it didn't translate.

Sorry, Winston. No, no, no. I mean, that was the whole thing. I think that that threw me off. The Illuminati, I'm not saying that they can't be short-sighted on things. But the whole point of the Illuminati, and I think that that was what was kind of missed,

they genuinely do have a tendency to be super on top of these omega level events that are going to rock things. And yes, they tend to make mistakes on how they handle them, but they wouldn't be that short-sighted. They were technically right, if you look at the books when they shoot Hulk off into space, they were technically right that if you go too out of control, you're going to destroy the world. Because what happens? He gets sent off to Sikar. He comes back and destroys the world. So kind of the same thing here.

if you're like you just said coy if you're worried about nexus level event be like nexus beings that can just destroy everything how would and you know about the dark hold and he's like yo wanda got the dark hold and she can shit up how is your first thought not to be oh all right look we do we do we do we do like that should have been the immediate response and this and this and this and this luminani have also dealt with phanos and they know what phanos you know so it's like and they knew what dr change was going to do so they should take every threat as even if it is Dr. Strange that's saying it's like, okay, well, they should know enough about the multiverse is to say, especially Professor X, to say there is a, he, I mean, essentially he does, because he's the one that lets, that lets him go. So he, he does know. So to be fair with that, but even jumping back with the Illuminati, it's first of, and I think that Kevin Feige was even upset about this, massive, massive mistake by revealing any of them in any trailers. You shouldn't have, you shouldn't have had. And because Krasinski was leaked. That, you can't, there's nothing you really. I didn't hear about that. I actually got surprised by that one.

Great. But that one was leaked. So there's really nothing you can do about that when someone's ruined it for other people. But when it's in your marketing of all these different things, it was unnecessary because you're in enough films here that you're going to get the audience in that you don't need that because it doesn't play

except for that. It almost feels like just like a bit. You know, and I think that even even though the scene itself is pretty rad when they're fighting Wanda and you see how brutal where she's like it's not like she's not just going to knock people over to the side she's killing like forkhead goes right away like he it's like the thing straps into and i it's so funny i was like yeah she blew his head up like no no she didn't blow his head up he he spoke he spoke he blew

his own head up she was the one that said hey i know what i'm gonna i know what's going to happen here watch this i'm going to strap up your mouth he blows his head up she blew his head up she was the one who did it. She was the one who said, okay, I know what is going to happen here. So she does that, wipes him out because nobody cares about that guy, except the people who watch that show. So he's dead. And then Reed Richards comes in and you care more about it, not because it's Richards, because it's Krasinski, because a lot of people, he wasn't set up enough. We haven't had a Reed Richards yet that besides in the comic books and on the show that you really care about. But then it comes down to both Captain Marvel, who's now Rambo and Peggy, who's now Captain America. And this

these fights are great and they both eat it brutal um and it shows there's no coming back from wanda at that point like i don't care like oh well like she killed other people in a different universe she killed four people right then and there so it's brutal that to me all i would do is swap out like dr strange is who they bring in first but even you have him in the containment room try wanda you get him in there you trap her and you have the same conversation you're having and that way those characters not only get to be on the panel but they also get entrances so you feel more you know, it's more powerful, and you don't show it in the trailer. And then that sets up Wanda as the villain that we,

the scene still serves the same purpose, but it also doesn't negate the stuff that they tried to set up a Doctor Strange that didn't quite land. And it's just one character swap. Obviously, it's different blocking, it's different and everything else. But, like, it also allows for the movie to feel bigger instead of like, it's like, to, to, to, to, to contain. And I do feel like, I understand that the Illuminati are supposed to represent

a different universe and they're supposed to be more arrogant, and they're supposed to have lived through more things, and they're supposed to be more like entitled. I get all that. But what didn't work is that we haven't met a Reed Richards in our universe. So now our first introduction to a major character in the MCU is the X-Force joke, where they kill them off. So like it doesn't quite work as well for the narrative of, it works for the Dr. Strange 2 narrative. It doesn't work for the 34 film saga we're in.

Well, the stuff that did work though was that, I mean, that horror element was there. It was present, the imagery. There was some great moments. And I think that even though we all agree that maybe Wanda could have had a little bit more of a lead in to get to that villain status, when she became the villain, she was a great villain. Absolutely. When she shows up and she's floating in front of all the sorcerers and there's that moment where she looks and she sees the guy and she's like, right. You know, it's like that whole thing played out brilliantly, that lead up inside of the inside of, to try to capture them in the first place. and try to get the girl.

I thought all that worked really well. There's a lot of moments that really were. And even the thing at the end, when Strange jumps into dead ponytail and... Love that sequence. I was nervous at one point when he's talking through his mouth as a sky. I'm like, this is going to get really evil dead and it's going to throw me out of it. And it did for a second, but then I snapped right out of it.

But Ramey did that to me a few times in this movie. And one of the big scenes that we can talk about is that music scene, which the way that I feel about that scene, when he's throwing the things as weapons at first I'm like all right that's pretty cool and then it starts going on for a while and then it's like dong don't and I'm like in my head I'm like visually this is very creative and pretty awesome but it's but it's a bit and it's it's it's like not it's not furthering the story it's just going to look at cool stuff sam ramy can do now that he has even more money and now he's working with marble I think the thing for that scene because I agree with you I think the first throwing in volley I was like that's What would have been dope to see after that is what other weird, strange, if you will, shit can they do to each other from that? Does the music all of a sudden turn to lyrics? Is it a situation where now he's pulling other types of things that are manifesting themselves? I think those are the cool things we enjoy seeing about strange because his powers really are kind of infinite.

And so I agree with you. We lingered in that type of fighting for too long to not go into something different. So I think that's what I mean, and we all mean that by like it being such a Ramey film in that moment is instead of focusing up, you're focusing on your kind of style, if that makes sense. And I don't want that to be a negative in the, and I think it doing well this weekend makes me happy. I'm so glad this is succeeding in the box office. I haven't said any of my positives yet, but there's plenty I love. But what I love is that the MCU now sees the success of half a big. billion dollar weekend with a director making bold choices. I just hope that the next time they have

a director making bold choices, the writing allows for the story to work in the MCU and then the directing style to make it unique. Because I would argue this is one of the most visually appealing MCU films. I would argue this is one of the most interesting style choices. Like there's a sequence in this where Wanda is about to do the walking. And basically you've got this awesome like 90s montage overlap fade with this really cool. sinister music that's like somehow intimidating but sexy at the same time, which is Scarlet Witch. And all of this is happening. And I'm like, this vibe is so unique and so special. And I'm so in. And then later in the film, there's that whole sequence for Dr. Strange

like pulls in the candles and he like levitates up and then it's about to start into the cloak of the damned. All of that stuff. Incredible. And you can argue you can't argue how visually it is a stunning visually movie. And so I want those lessons like those lessons I think are important for directors to get their freedom. After James Gunn, after Taika, after Sam Rani, I want that to continue. But I think the composer Supreme is a perfect example. The scene with the music, the composer's supreme scene. I think that's a perfect example of how weird it is that we have so many moments that are that creative, but also others that are kind of short-sighted because Scarlet Witch is now a nexus level being that can do literally anything. We saw utmost creativity

with this music fight, but then Scarlet Witch's powers are basically reduced down to like a gun. She shoots little like pew-pues. And like, that's, that's, if you can do anything, why are you pu-pooing with your red laser beams? Well, I mean, to that point, Coy, like some of the best moments that she was doing is, like you said, contorting out of events and the whisper, the witch. That like that Christian mentioned earlier, why you're exactly right. You know I don't like horror, but I actually was finding myself thrilled in those moments because I was like, dude, she's fucking. terrifying. I wanted to get more into that. Well, that's the horror stuff, right? Winston, like that's stuff, that and I'm,

and I'm interested to talk to you about that too, because you're not a horror guy, but like there was some pretty terrifying stuff here and showed you his producer, the producer, director. I thought that was very, very effective. A thousand percent. And there, and there is still some horror to be said of Blackbolt blowing his head off, of Reed getting turned into Big League chew, like that kind of stuff. does feel like you're getting that ridiculous kind of horror element to it. But I guess that's the whole thing. I would have loved to continue to have seen that because like the cloak of the damn

with those spirits kind of attacking him, that wasn't really horrid, kind of felt campy. You know what I'm saying? Like if I had really been terrified of these things like they were the mentors or something like that, you know what I mean? Then I probably would have been like, oh, Jesus. And I guess that's the thing. There's not a balance in the scary. if that makes sense.

Also, I always talk about how movies work best when you feel the punch twice. When you're watching Daredevil and you've got Vincent's and Opria that you care about and you care about Charlie Cox, you feel everything twice. My biggest issue with this entire film is that not only did it open with a brand new Doctor Strange we hadn't met yet and a brand new character we hadn't met yet, but that when we met met our Doctor Strange, it's at a wedding that they rushed through that should be very important with a character we have met and know, and then they live with characters we don't know. And then at the end of the day, we never get the emotional grounding to care about Wanda's heel turn, to care about Dr. Strange's arc into the whole metaphor of the knife is beautiful.

The writing of let go of the knife and he has to let go of the knife and let America Chavez wield the knife. He has to be the one through the tragedy of sharing his trauma, be the one to let go. That's a beautiful story. But that should have resonated emotionally and intellectually. and I never found myself rooting for anyone enough to overcome the individualized elements.

Like it didn't feel like an emotional landing for me. What just happened? Spotional landing. Emotional fucking bird just flew in here. What? Dude guys, the studio is crazy. It's live.

Bro, it's Wanda. Be careful. Birds, squirrels, pugs. All right, listen, before we keep going on here, so to let people know, we are doing a live show here too. I'm gathering all the super chats. We are, once we get to around 45 minutes, we're going to start taking the super chats. So we will shut them off after that. So make sure if you have questions for us and you want us to read, throwing your super chats now and we will start reading them off.

So just a reminder. Okay. So the other thing, let's talk about the Bruce Campbell stuff, right? Because I love Bruce Campbell. Love them. And I think that if you're a Sam Ramy fan and Bruce Campbell shows up, you mark out. You go nuts. You get super excited. it. I thought that the pizza stuff that he did was great. The idea that I thought maybe he would even be Dr. Strange instead of the cameo because Andrew Garfield didn't look like, you know, Holland and that type of thing. But every single strange looked like Benedict Cumberbatch apparently. So. Yeah. And that scene, again, showing the ramy side of it, it set it up really well of who do you think you're Dr. Strange and sets it up like, okay, well,

We know we're in some kind of weird multiverse. What's the multiverse? And then it turns into a Ramey and Campbell bit. He's punching himself in the face for a long time. It's funny because it's Bruce Campbell and it's Ramey. And then that ultimately leads to the worthless post-credit scene at the very end. But like that's where I think the big divide is if you're a Ramey head, you're going to love that scene. You're really going to, you're going to appreciate it.

And you're going to go, that was great to see Bruce Campbell. I love seeing Bruce Campbell. I just thought the story was sacrificed because of it. I don't know. It was such a short little moment. Like for me, it just felt like a fun, like, kind of cameo Easter egg. I thought that was, it was like kind of charming in that regard. But I agree that, like, for example, I don't love that we only get like two seconds of like who America is. If we could have sacrificed that Bruce Campbell seemed to get a deeper in depth about America and where like her life, I get, she told her backstory about her parents. And her parents are in return. Show don't tell. You know what I'm saying? Or a single mention of vision. That was the other thing I was going to get to.

The one mention of vision is I shot the man I love through the head and I felt nothing. And that doesn't. Viz talked about the multiverse. I know you care about your kids, but you literally made both your kids and your husband. And not one. And that line either implies one, she's too cold now to feel or two, she never felt. Neither of which line up to the character. So what is that line supposed to tell us?

Well, and speaking to which, when you play into the kids, right? Like this is a big debate with a lot of people that have seen this movie. I think you have to see Wanda Vision in order to really be not necessarily know what's going on. I think that someone said, I didn't see Wanda Vision. I'm smart enough to tell what's going on. It's not the point. The point is not to tell whether or not you know what's going on. The point is you will be more emotionally attached to this for a lot of different reasons

because any time you're spending more time with a character. and you are with them more to learn more about their who they are, their essence, all of that, you're going to be more attached. But this even more so, because you wouldn't know how those kids were created. You wouldn't know what was happening with those kids at all. I thought the relationship with her kids was because you had more time to deal with it in the series. It was way more effective than it was in this. So that's why I think Wanda Vision was, it's imperative to have watch it.

So when Kevin Feigy's like, now you don't have to watch a show. I don't agree with them on that one. I think you have to watch it. It's interesting because I feel like there's two reasons people watch these movies. And one of them is for the grain sweeping story with the characters. And the other is for the action. And I think that people that wanted action got it. And I'm really glad it's doing well.

And I really think it is some of the best action. But I think that people that want an emotional furthering of a saga, we're going to feel let down. And I think we all wanted, you know, I think we're seeing this as a piece of the TV show that is the Marvel Cinematic Universe. and we're feeling like, hey, I could have used another 20, 30 minutes, and I could have gotten my cake and eating it too, which is what you do with cake. I got to ask you all a question real quick. I got to ask you all a question just about how things were handled. We were talking about the Illuminati earlier.

What did y'all think about Professor X and how that whole thing played out? In the sense of the reveal or how they oft them? How they often? Because I have a funny story about that. Winston, you feel like he went out like a bitch. but see I actually enjoyed that because there is this really funny video that I will share with y'all it's about 90 seconds of professor x trying to do things and getting his ass whipped and screaming so it was like hi professor charles xavia bind you with the power of like it's just nonstop of how he got bitched around in the animated series so for me I don't know if ravey saw that but i thought that that was some sort of little cameo said it was the giant It's the X-Men series music that plays when he walks out. I love that.

That was one of my favorite needle drops ever. So that's, I mean, so who knows? Maybe it was, but it's, let's not, as much as we can say that it's Ramy style, Ramey, Ramey, is a comic book fan. Ramy, Ramey understands all these things. He's not just making movies to put superheroes on. He's doing it because he loves these things also. And you got to give, like, whether you like his style or not.

And so those types of things that he puts in there, he does it for a reason. And that scene on the, alternate Thanos death scene that is straight out of a comic book. That was so cool to see when they pull back and it's all the heroes. And Reed is holding the other cloak of levitation, which they later used to patch our cloak of levitation when they've got like black bolt over here. And like that whole setup,

that felt like purely, and like I felt like I flipped a page open. And I got to, I got to give love to Sam and Michael Waldron for giving out those moments. I just wish we'd had a few moments in between those moments where we could have gotten to appreciate the characters in those moments. Right. And I feel the same about Spider-Man sometimes,

you know, like, you know, we rewatched all the Spider-Man movies. I think a lot of the issues we all had with the portrayal of Tobin Mublyer's Spider-Man are now kind of some of the things that are coming through with this Doctor Strange in that it doesn't quite translate for the story. It doesn't quite translate to the character. It doesn't like, it's almost. And that almost is a big difference between characterizations,

especially with Wanda and here. And that's a big change. You Winston? No, I mean, I think that's the other. thing that's so interesting. I saw somebody just post a comment that I, I wish they had brought in Jacques Schaefer from Wanda vision to consult. And if they did, I don't feel like they maybe did. He got to consult as much as need be to kind of keep that consistency. It's a short for Jacqueline. Oh, oh, my apologies. I thought I was like French Jacques. Like, you know, something like that.

I said he for years, then that never. Oh, well, then there you go. So I think bringing, I think bringing her in and I'm sure, I'm sure that she probably was at some point because like, Fagie makes it pretty clear that they do, but I do that kind of crossover. But I wish that there had been more, I guess, just to make sure that we had like kind of organically gone into this. But, um, I don't know. That's, that's, yeah. Yeah. Apparently they also like, like, Sam didn't even watch all of Wanda Vision. Like, they gave him notes. And like that to me is really. Yeah. And like, and like, and you guys know I love Sam. Like you, this isn't coming from a place of Scorn. It's coming from a place of like, this is a continuing story.

This is a bigger thing. And Sam's used to making a trilogy of his movies. Sam's used to making. So I just feel like it's old school. And he's old school. How important is the TV? Right. So those conversations maybe should have been different conversations.

Agreed. And yeah, but there's also the stuff that we haven't talked about yet, like with Wong. Wong was great. It was always great. Always. And when I think that the character stuff that maybe was missing and other things,

it's certainly been there for so long because of the context that we've had. with Wong and Strange and their, and just their dynamic in this and that he's sorcerer supreme by default in Strange's mind, you know, and then they have these, you got, you should bow. I don't need to bow, but he doesn't give him a hard time for really doing it except like kind of breaking balls. And then by the end of it, they set this moment up. I thought Wong was great. But what did you think at overall Winston on, on Wong in this one?

I thought Long was, was awesome. I think I was really contemplating. how the hell he survived that fall because he definitely fell like a few like stories onto that rock bed and you know so I was just very curious I was like not you just wake up and you good dog like I he fell conveniently

yeah he really did he threw a pillow spell out right at the very at the very last second he hit a what's it called featherfall in Dungeons and Dragons but I think the thing that you bring up long that that kind of reminds me. I hated that the guardians of Wondegor went out like bitches in two seconds was like, they were waiting like these evil ass dudes.

Like they're going to, I'm like, oh shit, this is going to be a fight. And then it's one to the jaw and then just the cloak knocking the rest of them. And I was like, that's it? Like, come on. So I don't know. Thinking about Wong brought me back to that.

But he's, you know, Benedict Wong is a fantastic actor. And every time he steps into that character's shoes, he kills it. Yeah, it's great. And so the other thing that it's funny, because it's back and forth in this longer conversation is I was shocked how little what if had to do with anything. The zombie Wanda that was teased is a different character. And I love that the oil catches a zombie. That was clever. But Zombie Strange, we just met brand new character. The Supreme Strange wasn't the one in the house. It was just another strange that caused an incursion.

They gave us all those teasies. It's different strange. That's what I was. I was. I was, I was like, I am pretty sure because some people tried to be like, no, that's the what if one. I'm like, nah, because remember, the last thing he was charged to do by the watcher was to keep an eye on a goddamn killmonger and Zola. And he's in a fucking dimension. Like it's a separate, yeah, right. And they could have had that be a moment.

And it was really interesting how they chose not to with all three of those characters. And well, someone brought up, what about the Peggy Carter thing? I mean, we just, we just know many multiverses that Peggy Carter became. Agent Carter. And it's a different costume. it's slightly different and in the comics she's got a slightly different costume which implies that there's just multiversal options of captain carter right so that was uh and even the ultron bots and all that i thought was gonna play so much more into it and it just it just didn't it didn't really relate at all and i thought out of all at loki didn't tie in yeah wasn't at all and what's interesting is i there this movie is is so many i feel like i'm just crashing but i'm the movie is so many great scenes there are a lot and i gave it a b like a b is fairly high if this was a not Marvel film, a B would be high on the overall scale of film.

Like, if you look at movies, a B is good. But in the MCU, it's so consistent. It does feel lower. That being said, the scenes don't feel like it adds up to a complete quilt. I feel like I've got a lot of patches of a quilt. And the total tapestry that is the quilt is missing some pieces. So that blanket's useless because my feet are going to be cold. And like that's really hard because I feel like I love some of the ornate line work.

And I love some of the color choices. And I love some of the running out of quit metaphors. But like it doesn't add up to something that feels as cohesive as one would assume after this many rewrites, after this much editing, after the six weeks of reshoots. And then that's really hard to justify. Agreed. All right. So let everybody know that we got 10 minutes before we're going to shut the super chats off and start reading them. So you have 10 more minutes to send in any questions of maybe things that we didn't cover that you want us to cover that you want us to kind of dive deep into.

You got 10 minutes before we shut the super chats off and then start asking the questions that everybody. he's been asking thus far leading up to it. But the post-credit scenes, I really like the first one because the Charlize Theron one. It's funny, I really like it. But at the same time, I'm like, well, they shouldn't have ended the movie the way they did. They undermined the last moment of that was so cool. Like that was such an intense.

Like, what's going to happen? Oh, he's going to blink. Yeah. Because he, this whole movie is about how every other strange had to answer for their consequence months and had to figure like tried to cheat the system and do it he cheated the system but to do it for good our version but he still had to pay he still had to pay and then so when he drops down in this horrific moment in the eye you're like oh my god how they're gonna how is he going to handle this like oh don't worry he handles it pretty quick how do i know oh watch this scene and in the in the comics

the weight of the cost of magic is so high that at one point there's a storyline where he's got a bunch of sentient beings chained up in his basement and he's basically got people that he's distributing his cost to and it's like terrifying and tragic you need that cost to make the magic work and they allude to it and then he's like oh I just I just now like that's it like that's I'm good

this out I know how to do this I this is a parlor trick that now check this out and it's like oh no but that scene itself was really good I enjoyed because I had to ask Koi like who the hell is that besides being Charlie Sneran like and she's with her mama's

sister or something? It's sometimes knees sometimes daughter it's uh clea who's who's a fellow sorcerer and she's very powerful and there it's a lot of interest right and jumping back and forth which i liked and i think that makes sense and to get her involved um i dug that and that plays into dr strange three i assume i assume and also like maybe more galaxy jumping maybe more multiversal stuff because it opened the door to jormammu but what i'm curious about is is how they tie in the tva split with the multiverse split with the no way home like there's a lot of multiversal kind of confusing right now do you think I think I'll be honest with you.

I think the fact that you aren't already trying to connect those dots with these multiversal splits is what is making this confusing as fuck right now. Like this is this this reminds me of Christian, even your concerns not to not to dive into that, but like why you ultimately didn't always love like you didn't love Last Jedi and things got really sloppy is it definitely felt like we're not all on the same page here. And so it is very possible that there's something that we're not seeing. And there are definitely cookie crumbs that they've already left as to what's coming. Now America training at Kermitage with Wong and all that, it's very clear. That's another member of the Young Avengers that's coming. We're going to get a Young Avengers. They have not hidden it.

They put it as plain as day that that's going to happen at this point. But yeah, you have explained too many different ways that the multiverse exists without finding the through line for all of them. And that's what's kind of bothering me right now. And did you hear Faggy at the red carpet? He said that the moment with Kang was the reason like some of these spells didn't work. And he was verbally explaining things. But we need a movie to retroactively show all this. And I think it needs to be sooner than later because I like that right now, everything feels so different.

I love that Eternals feels different than this feels different than Shanchi. I love that. But if you're leading to something, it needs to like have a middle ground. We need a movie that gives us kind of like, here's a little bow so we can build this your or. We just need to put it together. You're going to get me on board when it comes to multiverse stuff and all that. As I mentioned, I'm way into multiverse things in parallel universes and all that way before Marvel was doing it, way before all these things were doing it, right?

So the beginning of this movie, when he has, when Ponytail Strange in America are going through their thing, and then he wakes up in the dream many times over. I've talked about dreams, maybe being parallel universes and reading theories about and all that. So I love the explanation of it. And I thought they were going to dive deeper into that. And I liked the, and that's something, again, another positive is this idea of dream walking, be able to take your consciousness from here and transfer it into a consciousness into that parallel universe was great. I just thought it just kind of lost sight after a little bit.

And that would have been a really cool moment with any of those multiversal Illuminati, too. One of them waking up and realizing that another version of them had been killed. and like you have an Illuminati reveal. You have another moment. Right. That's true. I think that would have been dope. I also, as you were mentioning the dream walking,

I would have loved to have seen, other than scaring the boys, obviously, I would have loved to have seen Wanda realize the damage she was doing to herself. Like to see when she does, like obviously strange does it to a corpse. So like, you know, if maybe he had like lost a hand or something, like maybe like all of a sudden he starts to,

a robot, like imagine you've possessed. Wanda multiple times and like there's no way that you sort of feel some of the backlash or you're feeling some sort of emotional resonance of the same way that she tortured all those people in Westview you know what I'm saying it would have been cool to see that that's affecting her too but the question also is how long was that was that was ponytail strange rotting for because it's it seemed like they weren't gone that long he's really like a yeah skeleton corpse I mean he wasn't embalmed he was pretty much just rotting I think you go quick when you're just under some rocks I don't know I'm not I'm not a scientist yeah let that one go um that's

I'm one of the scientists myself. I did love the transformation, the first Wanda dream walking scene where she's walking to the house and she breaks the fourth wall slightly. That horror stuff. Again, all the stuff I didn't expect to like, I love. The horror stuff for me. Yeah, the carry moment, which has got the Ultron bod oil on her face and she's walking through all that. I mean, because that was the imagery alone of that kind of carry moment. Works great.

The Illamani stuff as an isolated event works great. Yeah. Like visually, I love seeing those powers. I love seeing those characters as an isolated moment. Yeah. What about Chilatollager for? We haven't really talked about him, you know? Like, so like all of that, I think that it's funny because Strange mentions how he wants to, he's

like, you know, in my, in my universe, you wanted to, you've always wanted to kill me. And it's like, I never really picked that up in the first Dr. Strange that he always wanted to kill him. Post credits. It was, it was after. Yeah. Even then, he was never really strange. He was, but he was, his beef was with the ancient one. Yeah.

His beef was never with Strange. And it definitely felt like the comic book character got mixed with the movie character without really describing it. Like as far as Dr. Strange's relationship. Well, especially because we didn't see Mordo again to see where that, because that was, it felt like a big jump to me. Like it genuinely felt like a large jump from Strange. You be doing stuff a little weird man to man. I hate the ancient one to like, I did want to whip your ass. Like I, you know what I mean?

Like it just, there was no. That's what I would have loved. Yeah. You land this movie. and you have it be revealed that the Dr. Strange, the one we thought was ours, we've been following this whole time, isn't, and that erases all of our problems.

He goes back to his earth, and there's one slight difference, like, water is purple, and we're like, oh, that's not been our earth. And then we, then our Dr. Strange wakes up and, like, realizes there's multiverses. Boom, we have no continuity issues.

We have no problem with the characterization. We have no problem with tie-ins. Wanda makes sense. Everything's fine. Well, the last thing we're going to get in, the last thing we'll get into before we start taking the questions, and so this will be the last opportunity

to throw in superchats. before we get into it, is Rachel McAdams, right, in general. So the character of Christine, who in the first movie, we all agree, great actress who was underused in the first movie. However, I think that that character served the purpose she was supposed to serve in that first movie. It's just, it's a strange, it's a strange thing that you have Rachel McAdams in there because it's like, there's only so much you can use Christine because of, I think they covered everything that they needed to cover in that first movie to set him up. but it doesn't change the fact just like, well, you just got a really great actress and she really isn't doing much. She does a lot in this movie, except it's not our Christine that's doing it. It's the other Christine that's doing it because the Christine that we've met gets married.

We see her in that scene. That's it. We find out once again, it didn't really work out in all these different universes. They don't work out. but she becomes a very strong character in this this other multiverse and she helps him out and she travels with them and she does that night I loved their dynamic and I loved that angle and I'm glad she had more to do

the last scene they have together that relationship that's formed where they're both not each other's other and they still love each other because their love is transcending multiverses I love that like I think that scene of dialogue and the scene where he talks about his sister are the two closest things we got to emotional arcs And so, like, those are highlights. And I also love that Rachel McHadams got to be the first one to say Baxter, like the Baxter Foundation.

Like, I love that she got a big comic book moment as well as a lot of really good emotional residents. So, yeah, I enjoyed her here. No, no, real quick. I mean, I enjoyed it too. I enjoyed seeing that even with him loving Christine over across the multiverse, that like there are problems with the two of them across the board and a lot of it having to do with strange as eagles, Like someone some things don't change in that regard. So I thought I thought that that was super, super cool.

I had one other thought that has completely slipped. So if it comes back. Yeah. All right. So don't put any more super chats in there, guys, because we're not going to be able to get to them. I'm just going to read the ones that we got now. There's a lot of them.

And we thank you. And we're going to talk about, maybe there's some things that we didn't talk about. So Galaxy Geeks, was it strange to you that they had characters basically from what if and not be the character? I'll cover that. Also love the show and live is fun. So we did cover that.

Yeah, it was weird to me, and I wish that they would have done a little bit more with what if. Any moment of cohesive tie-in that made it feel like is that important as they implied it was would have been nice. And also just like the multiversal feel or like I said, end it where none of it's included because it's a different strange than ours. And then you got the option to do both. But yeah, I noticed.

All right. So Chips, Bewick. Thank you, Chips, for the 99-super chat. Do you think enough time was spent developing Wanda and Vision? 's romance it's been hollow too short grief was hard to take but movie was good to winston's cameo look it's like candy what does that mean do i know oh i'm not sure what that means uh but that's okay so it when it comes to it's the the vision yeah i think vision and wandas romance was set up pretty well especially in wanda vision i thought i thought that all the stuff that they played in there

i thought worked really well i thought that it was um pretty pretty heartbreaking that he didn't really realized that he was not alive anymore. And there was a, and by the way, there was a horror element in Wanda vision a few different times, like some creepy imagery, a couple different times in Wanda vision that carried over that I thought was pretty relevant to all this. So, but I thought, yeah, I thought so. I think what they're talking about, you're talking about the moment where like she's talking a vision, all of a sudden she looks and he's like, ah, like, because he's the corpse.

Yeah. No, I agree. The only thing that I get kind of what they're saying, I know they kind of did it a little bit over the movies, but the most you really got of them is them making the food in Civil War and then them in Infinity War right before they get attacked by Corvus Glave and approximately midnight. I wish we had maybe, I agree, flush it out just a maybe a bit more, but we were already at the end of phase three. Like, what are you going to do? You know what I mean? You kind of had to go or go as quickly as you can. All right. Here's the next one here. This is from Famous, I think

I might have missed this one, but I like the movie. I feel like they did Professor X dirty. I didn't like the way they just often with the next snap. What did you guys think? Yeah, we talked about that one also. He I don't know, he went out a little a little fast for me and like he didn't I mean, I get it showed how it was supposed to show how powerful Wanda

has become that she can take out all of these people. But I would have liked to seen Professor X put up a little bit more of a fight. Just like with the multiverse, I could have used one more in minds I've seen. Like you've got infinite mind and like he's stronger than that. No matter what if Wanda stronger, he still have that. Also, it

would have been a really good time to hint at in my universe we know each other in my universe like you know you're a mutant like you don't need that dialogue but something it's it's also it's also the fact coy that when we see him dealing with her in like house of m like wanda's still doing wanda things but professor ex is holding his own and like actually helping regulate her from time to time it's like a heavyweight fighting a feather weight they should have both been welter weights there should have been like an actual fight yep all right let's see so the next one here's mavith the rapewander's my favorite comic character and the MCU, but they made her so OP, overpowered.

At the expense of the other characters, how does Reed give up you guys, a lot of abbreviations here, BB ability. How do how did this group take? That's, well, that's a great point. I mean, Wanda's powerful. Wanda's powerful, but like they didn't,

but how do they all take out that? Because they had strange with them also. Yeah, but Strange can't take out Wanda. Like, Wanda takes out herself. At the end of the movie, nobody beats Wanda. Wanda beats Wanda. Wanda decided she'd gone too far. America was sort of doing it.

Well, she mentally stopped. I'm talking about what this guy's saying, what Mabith is saying is that the Luminati didn't put up hardly any fight. Maybe Captain America and Captain Marvel a little bit. But they didn't put up any fight, and this is the team that took out Thanos.

And they didn't really hurt Wanda at all. So, I don't know. Yeah, that definitely is a thing because we didn't see. Obviously, the moment was cool because it's a comic book image, but we didn't really get to see how they worked as a team because all we really got was the arrogance, which is important to distinguish, but I didn't feel that cohesive team dynamic.

Good point. Sorry, my thing was muted. Just for a mind, I see people still putting in super chats. As much as they appreciate it, don't do it. Oh, I also realize what they're talking about. I thought people were talking about cameo, like the web servers. They're talking about cameo, the band, like the funk band. They're saying that my mustache.

Oh, okay. you go there you go so perfect uh yeah don't put any more super jets because we can't get to him and i don't want you guys to to not get your questions and that it'll be that'll be crappy um d j p y bk if 616 dr strange creates the scarlet witch accords who will be in the superhero council who would be your 616 version of illuminati post end game all right that was specifically for coy and winston i'm gonna i'm gonna lead into coy on this one man i'm a lead into coy on this one yeah uh so basically you're saying our universe is illuminati i would include the upcoming Namor from Black Panther.

I think that'd be a good way to bring in some arrogant intelligence while also bring in new character. I think you're going to need Xavier to make the mutins represented, which we haven't met yet, so you can't do the Illuminati yet in the 616. I would include,

you know, I kind of like the idea of our tactician being rowdy. I think an Ironman represented, but having it be rowdy because he's so military-minded and tactical. I would then include, as as far as a, because they're all mentally powerful. So Xavier, Dr. Strange, I feel like he's,

he's kind of a staple, Namor, we haven't met yet. And then we always need like a fifth and sixth. He got Winston, who we finish him off with. I am still probably putting cap in there. If Chris Evans wants to make little cameos like that, because you remember. But he did. No, remember he didn't die.

He just was like, I'm old now. I'm not a superhero. I don't fight battles. He just was like, take the shield. I'll see you later. Your thing is like 97 doing just fine somewhere? I genuinely feel it's just a situation where he would totally talk and be on that council to be like, let's figure shit out.

But he wouldn't be in the field anymore. You know what I mean? Yeah, I like that. And then we'll say Bruce Banner. Bruce Banner, there you go. All right, let's get to the next one here. This is from Haskell 420, our buddy head. Hey, gang, I saw it twice.

First in Dolby, which was amazing, as was the top gun Maverick clip and Avatar teaser. I liked it overall, even with its issues. Well, thank you, Ed. Yeah, a lot of people are kind of saying that. I liked it. Yeah, a lot of the same thing for me, too. I think what's, I was just to say, Christian, I think the thing that's so funny is that people hear someone giving critique or being negative about something and they just assume that they're like, fuck all this. I don't think any of the three of us have said, yo, this movie is trash.

I think we've said, we got some problems, but we enjoyed it. And I stand by that this should be seen in the theaters. It's a movie. I also think this is the first time the three of us have all felt, um, the, um, the, the B range on a movie because we're usually, we usually talk about movies we love. It's rare we get to talk about a movie that we have critique of. So I think we leaned a little heavier just because it's new.

Agreed. All right. Back to Haskell. All of us have liked, loved, and cared about these characters over the years, but in a way they felt like hollow characters. If you know what I mean. I do know what you mean. I just think that they weren't, it was that, and that was where my big issue with the substance, style over

substance comes from. It's that you cannot deny that there's a lot of like, wow. I saw it with a, I brought a buddy of mine to see it and he was he's a ramey head and he was like this is like peak ramy agreed this is some of ramy's best stuff um but with and very telling what coy just said when it kind of he didn't even watch um wanda so and that and that's and that i think to me is pretty crucial to get all the character stuff and i know a lot of people have have mentioned you know this was kind of shooting simultaneously but again why wouldn't you have then had a sit not just here's some notes

have a sit down with Jack with Jacques or I don't know how to pronounce her name. I know Jacqueline. Like sit down and know where it's going. Or even see a rough cut of the beginning. You know what I'm saying? Like that doesn't make sense.

Yeah, it doesn't. All right. Let's carry on. Senior nerd, once again, very generous super chat. Thank you. Charlie Sterron. Finally be a superhero

would be a dream come true. She was a superhero if you look at Hancock. But the instruction should have been better. She didn't even introduce herself as Clebe. Clea or Clea? Clea. I mean, I've never heard it. I've only read it, but I think it's got it. Charlie Stner-R-on-N-N-C-was a big win. Yeah, it's a massive win. She's great, and she has just become cooler over the years. So it's great to have her in. And then she's been in, she's doing,

she's got such a interesting career because she could be in these movies, whether it's like a monster or, I mean, the first thing I ever saw her and was Devil's Advocate. That's where I first remember. She can be in these movies like this. Yeah, same. And she can do that. And then she can jump into a fast and furious movie or she can do something like Atomic Blonde. And she's very versatile. Do you see that Seth Rogen rom-com she did?

It's incredible. Great and that too. She's so strong. Long shot. Yeah. And like Mad Max Fury Road. Like he's such a boss, man. And like her career's only gotten better and that is not always the case once you were

that successful in the 90s. No, it's not easy. It's not easy to do that. And she's continuously finding new ways to do it. So I'm excited to see her in the MCU as well. Russell Amador kind of bummed the way the Illuminani somehow handled Thanos but one we have exactly but Wanda wiped the floor with him I get it more powerful being but John is fantastic was used to show how powerful Wanda was yeah he he he was he should he'll have somebody else because you're gonna be said she was she was she was she was she's become so corrupted because when he it's pretty chilling when he's talking about his family and and she's a good she'll she'll let they'll have somebody else because you're gonna be such a good line There's so many great, like, Zingers from Wanda.

Not even Zingers, but like, fuck, that's cold. And that was definitely one of them. That was a big one. So, all right, keep moving on here from Ismail Montoya. I hope I said that right. If Wanda had to obtain her power from America's Sea in order to travel the multiverse, how the hell did she destroy all the dark holes of the universes? Coy?

Theoretically, they are connected because as she's a nexus being, it's a nexus item. It's something that connects the universes. It's something that's universal since, you know, the universes have them and I imagined it kind of like the the book of Ashanti was in that world between worlds. I think the dark holds are all connected outside in the world so destroying

one to the level that she did probably atomically destroyed all of them. I also think that red flash you see right as the mountain crushes is her leaving. So she might have just like bamfed out of there not she's not dead. But like I think when she left she made sure that you don't think she's dead. No, I don't think she's dead.

Is Elizabeth Olson I thought was over it? I think Elizabeth Olson is script to script now. I think she's got that Oscar Isaac contract where it's like let me read this first. She's like John Cena or song cold. You bring him in at WrestleMania. You let me know. You let me know how this. Yeah. And then like she gets to the side, which I think is great

because she's more than earned the right to be like, let me check this first. Just the whole series. Maybe it does it. Yeah. All right. A fall. $20 shipwitcher. Thank you so very much. What's up from Utah? How many more movies do you guys think we will have until the big storyline starts picking up? I'm enjoying the multiverse stuff. But I'm more, but I'm also worried

the momentum might start to slow down. I understand that concern. And that is the big question. What is the big storyline right now? Because I thought the big storyline would combine with what we learned in Loki to this. And what if and eternals, but none of it is meshing so far yet. Am I wrong? I think the big story is Kang.

Yeah, but why not bring him in? Yet, for the same reason that if you remember, you don't even really get an inkling of Thanos until the end of Avengers. Yeah. And we haven't hit an Avengers level threat yet. We haven't had that combined effort yet. And that's why I'm saying I genuinely think that that moment is the Young Avengers. I don't know when we're going to make that turn.

But again, you introduce Kate Bishop, you introduce both of Wanda's boys. You introduce America Chavez, who's now training herself. You introduced Elijah Bradley. Like you have introduced all these young offenders and it's coming. I just again. Yeah, everything's in Secret Wars is what there is. I mean, I think Secret Wars is going to be kind of the, I think Midway is young Avengers leading to secret wars. I think we're a ways out from Secret Wars, but I think that's going to be the giant Infinity War endgame culmination.

But I do think on the way there, we're going to get Young Avengers. And I do think we need a big enough event to introduce Kang to that scale because we've also not met King. we've only met the one who remains, which is a version of Kang. So when we get to Kang, it's got to feel scopy. I want to watch Loki again, because now after all the stuff that was set up with multiverse, all the stuff that was set up with the different versions and the different, like, it makes a lot more sense. Anyway, Mike Joyce with, again, 1999 Superchat, thank you so much, Mike.

I think Elizabeth Olson gave a fantastic performance. I agree. Where would you rank her among the Marvel villains, both performance-wise, as a villain overall? Okay, so this is an interesting question because performance-wise, up there in the top, development-wise, not in the top because she just, it was kind of, like, if you tell a great actress or actor-actress and say, hey, we need you to do this, but why that doesn't make sense? I don't care.

You need to do it. And then that person just nails it. That's the performance of the actor, right? I just don't like the way that it was just thrust upon us that she's now the villain. Even someone like, I still think Kilmonger and Thanos are the two best. Yeah, I agree.

I think we've kind of got the opposite of Loki with Wanda, where it's like we went from villain to hero, hero to villain, but like with Loki we had the time, whereas Wanda, we had a whole show, but then they skipped some steps. Sorry, Winston Minna to cut you. You're fine. I think the only other thing that brings it down for me is

we don't know, ultimately what universe she would have picked, but the fact that she then kind of fixates on the one where she keeps possessing Wanda, why is it that you're not more focused on finding some of your boys that don't have a mom? You know what I'm saying? That like that, that Wanda's the one that died and visions survived and then you just plug yourself into that way. You know what I mean? I don't know. So the performance I'm all about, you know, she's right. She's up there in the conversation with Thanos, Kilmonger, Michael Keaton's vulture, like the greats. but as far as

the rationale behind it, it's a little harder without those steps seven and eight that I'm talking about. This is why I don't do live. What do you got? Christian is just a movie. Really?

I thought people were really running around in space going to the multi-front. I've been trying to meet Reed Richards this whole time for nothing. Wait, I can't find Dr. Wade Richards in our reality?

This guy just saved me so much time. I know. So much time. Nanos didn't do anything for 10 years. I, Yeah, I know. All right.

Yeah, don't read the regular live. I started to and I was like these people. I got it. Signor nerd, over under 20%. John Cuisinski is returning as Reed Richards as well as directing and Fantastic Force. See, that's a tricky question. I'm going to give you the over 20% that he's directing.

I'm going to give you the under 20 that he's going to be in it. So over under 20% that he's going to be directing and starring in Fantastic Four. I think if he stars, he directs because I think, yeah, I think he wants to play in a bigger wheelhouse. I think when he talks about directing, he's often been, like, he loves his quiet place and the things he's done, but I think he wants to go scope. And I think that's the only way he'd get the freedom that he'd want, because you've got to entice someone of that caliber. So I think they might, might make it a thing. And then, like, I don't know if that Emily Blunt's been very outspoken that she doesn't want to do it. But I think the only way she's due storm is if she gets to work with her, I'll be on.

set for a year. Here's why, because he's what, 41, 42, something like that in that range? They want Fantastic Four to be a staple of this universe for a long time. I think you start with a younger Fantastic Four. I don't think you start with a 42 year old. They tried that and it was bad. Like, I mean, look at Fan Force. Yeah, but Fox tried that. Yeah, but the characterizations don't work young. I don't think. I think it's one of the family. It's Marvel's first family. Like they already have kids. 30, 32 years old, young. You're just shaking. in a decade got you 32 years old it because he's if you look at his first movie if his first movie comes out in two or three years from now say two years right and and how old is he i don't know

i think you let's see hey sir i definitely think they're doing 2024 let's say hey syri how old is john krasinski thanks for ignoring me stupid asshole so uh zanzki is 42 42 all right so let's say that he's 45 but but 44 45 by the time the first movie comes out and then by the next movie he's close to 50 if they do a second one or they start doing these it's a lot of time to be to plus the fact he wants to direct more do more things i i don't think he does but he doesn't have to do any physicality because his power set is so cg i have it's like ryan reynolds like he's 50 but you still got to but you still got to keep the physique like you got it yeah it's different i'm not telling you he can't be 50 years old and do super movie movie of course you can't but i'm saying

is to start the fantastic four off where they're going to like kevin figgis and wanted to bring the fantastic for and for a long time and to be able to bring in a fantastic four as is brand new as the new like if they set it up right and they hit it the way that they want to hit it and they can have them around for 10 you know look at look at what they did for like tony stark tony stark was around for a long time yeah so they had him around for like 2009 until 2019 10 years whatever it was so they do the same thing i mean sure you could do you could you could you could have him be 55 56 by the time it it ends his run but i think I don't know. Do you think they go a decade younger and play that way?

Yeah, I think you go younger. I like Rahul Kohle from all the Mike Flanagan stuff for reading. He's about like mid-30s. I think that would work. The only thing that's interesting, and this is the part where I don't love that they don't bring Loki into this, we didn't get any like people variance. You know what I'm saying?

We maybe got that they went on a different path, but you had the same actor that played back to Blackholder. Yeah, I said that earlier, because they did that with with Toby Moble. McGuire and Andrew Garfield, but everybody else was, was, it was just been at a Cumberbatch every time. Well, and so, so, but that, I guess that's my, where I almost feel like they are nodding to us that they're probably going to use Cresinsky because again, Lashana Lynch just replayed like got the powers instead of Carter, Larson, like, you know what I'm

saying? Yeah, maybe. Well, well, even the in humans universe that no one acknowledged until yeah. All right. And I'm in Idris, how excited to you for the future prospect for Franklin Richards in the MCU now that we have confirmation needs in the multiverse? Is that Reed, That's Reed's kid. And he is, he is an omega-level mutant that literally can warp reality however the fuck he wants. Oh, really? Yeah. So he basically would be a Wanda-level villain.

I mean, hero, like to compete with that. And what's interesting about him is he's kind of the inverse of onslaught. So you got some really fun X-Men stuff to play with. You got some universe creation. And in the comics right now, he's actually depowered because it's finite. Like he overused his powers. And now he's a regular person in a family of people with powers. and it's this really cool, like, existential crises of my whole family is O.P., and I'm just a kid.

We got a couple more here. Let's, we're going to go. Ben Ellett, I think the mid-credit scene should have been the final scene of the movie. The mid-credit should have been strange finding the 616, 616 Fantastic 4 and X-Men. Yeah. That could work. I would have liked that dream thing to, you know, show the characters again. And I think that any of that would have worked.

But I also feel like the credit scenes just weren't for me because I'm not a same rainy guy as much as other. I think the one thing that's driving me crazy is how the hell you're going to introduce the king of the inhumans and essentially the master, not really, but like the master of mutants. And strange doesn't go, wait a minute. What's an inhuman and what's a mutant? Like that never like for half a second crosses his mind. Well, I mean, that's why I think that we're going to get the, I think we're getting Fantastic Four in Ant and three because Kang's in it. And I think we're going to find out that the Fantastic Four are trapped in that little city in the quantum realm. I think in Quantumania, we get the fantastic four.

fantastic for i think as soon as antman i think that's actually the reason they moved it up is because it ties into loki so i think that's all coming real soon and i think they want the first time mutants is uttered to be like such a thing they didn't want it as a moment but it definitely like as a fan went like right right uh king dingling all right that's a great that's a great the movie as obvious flaws but that captain carter death was amazing and one of staring at camera legit scared me it was pretty great i'll uh legit be pissed if krasinski is a one-office movie is the Last Jedi of MC. I don't know. I'm not going to go that far. Say it because I don't know how it's not, I don't think it negates as much as Last Jedi did in my, in my opinion, but, but I don't think it's

still, I haven't seen the vitriol come out for this movie. I've seen people not like it, but I haven't seen it. It's not as polarizing. I don't think. Last Jedi spit up, split up families. And it almost made, and me and Christian's friendship because I think Last Jedi is way better. You're out of your mind. Um, here's, well, Les Jedi is way better than this movie. I mean, I don't know. It's a different. It's a long conversation. Next week, I'm a big thing. Colin Christian debate. That's right. This was supposed to be a Dr. Strange movie, not a Wanda movie. This was a movie where he was supposed to shine and he didn't all about Wanda.

I mean, I think that what they could have done is called this movie because I do think that he had a lot to do in this movie. And I think that his relationship with Christine and him trying to figure out of not being the same type of Dr. Strange as everything else. So all of that, I think that that is there, but I do think because of as I mentioned before with the multiverse, how it wasn't really focused, I think he could have called this the Darkhold. I think you could have called this. I just made it a Wanda movie. Like Wanda Doctor Strange movie. Also, this could have been a Wanda Maximoff movie. It could have been like how civil war was between. Even though Captain America is civil war, when you think it's civil war, you do think about Tony and and. You know, so it's like, because it was called Civil War, it's between the both of them. Yeah. But you get, but you get a, you get a pass, though, just because I obviously, the focus of that story was on, on Cap and Bucky still.

And that final piece of him trying to get his friend back and all that kind of. But I, but I agree with you. I think Scarlet Witch and the Dark Hold would have probably been a better title than, then Dr. Strange than the Multiverse of Madness, because it really didn't focus on Dr. Strange. And it really didn't focus on the multiverse. It focused on Wanda. Yeah, I just thought it was a little more relevant. All right, Chris, Retzlap, should this have been called a couple verse or a few verse of madness,

how is many multi more than one, just busting people's pizza balls of the show, quite relax. I don't know how, Anonymous Stranger, I don't have that button. Darrell Stokes at Blurred Lions Entertainment, anyone lost in the difference between timelines versus universes. Based on the rules set up and end game versus the rules in this, wouldn't cap have caused an incursion. Yeah, I know it's, that's what I meant when I said it comes out to be a little confusing. So they've got it, they've got to set up some more, some more rules and, and, and understanding for sure. Chris, let's laugh. Corey, you nailed that 616 wasn't our universe.

Mysteria was the only reference and that was a made up story. Yeah. Okay, let's see. Oh, I have a question. I finally remember that thought I couldn't. Yeah. The one thing that threw me off, remember we talked about in the rewatch, they were like, yeah, use the sling ring to travel throughout the multiverses,

and that's how you'd go through all that and blah, blah, blah, and then for them to have America show up and then be kind of confused about the multi. So wait, you're telling me there's actually a multi- like, I was like, hold on. We were so excited that we were actually, like, they thought this one out, and then all of a sudden it felt like they were red-running or forgot.

Right. And I did not love that. Right, that they've been setting it up since Dr. Strange one. Yeah. Also, yeah, she stole a sling ring because she couldn't use her powers. I thought that was clever. But then when they were like, what's the multiverse? I was like, six years ago, we discussed your knowledge of the multiverse.

And you're a nerd. Despite the many flaws, I had tons of fun watching Dr. Strange, too. You can tell Sam Ramey had a ball making the movie and I hope he comes back for three. I don't disagree with that. I think you could absolutely tell that he was having fun making this movie. There's no doubt. And I'm happy. He's happy.

Yes, AJ Bristol with the last one here. So we all know Secret Wars is coming out, and that's when we're going to get Fantastic Four in X-Men, or will they come somewhere else? Coy, what do you think? I think Fantastic Four gets teased or even shown in the upcoming Ant Man in the Lost, thanks to Kang and the Quantum Mania. I do think they're trapped in the Quantum Realm.

I do think they might even be set in the 60s. I can see them being a fish out of water story. And then as far as X-Men, I think they need to come before Secret War, because Secret Or needs to use them. And if you're introducing them and using them in Secret War, that's going to be a real mess. So I think what you do is you have a few solo movies as well as a few shows. And you have X-Men kind of take the Avengers spot as the frontline team of the universe.

And then by the time you get to Civil War, I mean, sorry, Secret War, they've already had like five different properties. So you're invested in them. So I would use them before Secret War, but then have their big moment, much like Avengers Infinity War, be in Secret War, F4 as soon as that in. This is actually the last one here. Jonathan Peck, over under 50% that Sam Ramie will come to do Dr. Strange 3. I'm going to go under. I think he's going to be doing other things, and I wouldn't be surprised if he winds up doing Spider-Man 4.

I'm going to go under, and I think Spider-Man 4 is more likely. Yeah. I think Spider-Man 4, yeah. Well, that's it. Look, guys, we did it. We did a live show. We did a live show, and I want to thank everybody who was involved

and everybody who watched and everybody who listened. If you're watching this, by the way, on the replay, please comment, like, subscribe, do all that. And if you didn't know this already, I'm going to be smashing myself in the face with a pile, lemon pie. That's only if we get to 50,000 subscribers by June 1st. But you got to subscribe, you got to hit that notification button, and that's how that will happen. I want to thank both Winston and Coy. Gentlemen, thank you so much. It was fun doing a live show with you. Maybe we'll

do it again. But that's it. We'll see you guys on Friday as we do Jurassic World. It is, what's the, what's it called? Allen King. I haven't watched it yet. I'm scared. Oh, I can't wait to hear. So thank you guys to both you, we'll check you out and then check out all the stuff that we have going on in this channel. Our Top Gun Review is coming out soon. So all right, thanks, guys. Peace out.