The Kristian Harloff Show - Eternals SPOILER Review | The Big Thing

Episode Date: November 8, 2021

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Hey, everybody, welcome to the big thing. It's Monday. And Eternals, it came out. And this is for people who have seen the movie. We're doing a spoiler. Spoiler? We're doing a spoil. A spoiler-heavy review of the Eternals.

Hence, that's why it says it on the thumbnail. Hence, that is why I have Coyce Andrew with me. And I hope you are going to enjoy this episode. Spoiler-heavy review, conversation, talk, thoughts on. The Eternals. It's the big thing. It's myself, Christian Harlow from Koi Janja, coming at you. Let's do it. Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen.

Big thing. Monday. November. Wow. It's November. Movie industry is starting to move. Get this movie coming out. Internals.

Get our non-spoiler for it. Let's find out on the channel. It's a heavy reminder that this is a spoiler-heavy review once again. and who better than this character. What's up, boy? You're the person I know that love this as much as me, so I've been really looking forward to this today. Yeah, this is it, the two people on the internet.

I've been so looking forward to this conversation because I've talked to a lot of people that are casually enjoying it and a lot of people that disliked it, but I have no one else that's like, go team eternals. Yeah, it's weird, you know, it's like one of those things where I just, I had a conversation, I think, actually Ellis made a point that I don't necessarily disagree with,

but I still didn't mind it. And his point was that there are a lot of times in this film that the same beat is kind of repeated. Like when they're meaning as far as conversation goes of humanity, we've got to save humanity, damned humanity, and they bring it up a bunch of different times. When he said it, I was like, you know, you're right. That is something, but I didn't mind it. I felt, and he said a lot of the stuff, he said some of it seemed kind of rehashed. I thought it was just very fresh.

To me, I thought, yeah, someone said it's the Marvel formula a bit bigger. I was like, this does not have the formula at all. Like, there's not a single beat that feels familiar to me. And what you're speaking to Mark saying, I feel like they're talking about that from different perspectives every time. Of course you need to rehash a conversation if you've got a new perspective on it. Yeah, I stand by what I said as far as it's beautifully shot. There's a lot to it.

I mean, I had not seen Dune before I saw this. I saw this one first. No, it's intricate, I'll say the word is, as this movie is, Dune is intricate times a thousand. And integrate. And I say that in a, no. wonderful way. Like, if I, if you ask me what I like better, I like doing better.

That's not, I gave them both like the same score, but I think that if you're like, I gave you a very hard question on Friday's episode of the rewatch where I said, would you take the Matrix or Spider-Man? And if you asked me that question with Eternal's in June, I would take June. I'd want to see a second one. This is where I think there's enough going on in the MCU that if you took the Eternals out of it wouldn't ruin it for me. Sure.

But that being said, I enjoyed this movie more so than I have in a Marvel movie in quite some time because it was very different to me. It was very thinky or, you know, heady to me. And I liked what they were doing. I will still say that I think that is Gemma Chan, right? Yep. I thought she had the least to do even though she was the main character. And I wish I would have developed her more because she's just there in the beginning,

like, you know, to establish she is an eternal. She's got the great relationship with Sprite, who I think has a lot to do. Yeah. Sprite's got a lot to do. And then obviously the romantic relationship that she's having with both Kid Harrington and and both the Starks, which I thought was great. Good little stunt casting. It's fun.

I also really liked how they played with that. I liked how they closed out, did that when there was that first meeting between the two of them and our audience that we saw it audibly like carefully. And I laughed because it was like such a release of all. A sweet moment of the two of them kind of coming together, meeting each other. Yeah.

Yeah. I really liked that the film has 10 different perspectives. And a lot of people were saying, like, you don't know how they got from A to B with those perspectives. but I think that since you have this foundation of knowing and trusting each of their arcs, by the time they explain how each of the 10 feel about their decision-making towards humanity,

it all worked for me. I think these are some of the most fleshed-out characters in the MCU, which is saying a lot because you're introducing 10 characters of the MCU, you've got the amazing, amazing, amazing dichotomy of Iron Man and Captain America in the OG Avengers films that leads to end game where you've got Captain America going from selfless to selfish by choosing to finally stop fighting his fight

and being his own man and dancing. You've got Iron Man that goes from a selfish character, literally making warfare to sacrificing himself. And then all in the middle, you've got Thor going on an existential crisis of who he is, what's a god, all those things. That took eight movies, minimum.

It actually took 23, but it took eight minimum movies. This movie doesn't quite do that because it can't. But what it does do is it gives us 10 ensemble characters that all go through giant arcs that by the time you're making this extremely heady, introspective decision, you know where they're coming

from you understand the perspective of gods i don't understand why people don't like this movie yeah well so there is a lot what i what i totally agree with you there is that i thought it was a a feat to be able to take all of these characters and like each one of them now we can't talk about that we couldn't talk about non-spoiler right it's like so here's this character that if you asked me about the character i thought they gave you enough like we were just talking about amazing spider-man too right and that that you've you've got harry osborne and you've got electro but But there's just not enough time to develop the two of them. Yeah.

This movie develops all of these characters in a short amount of time. And I thought the one thing is, and I said this in a non-spoena, I told you afterwards, you ruined part of the movie for me without me to ruin it. And I didn't know. I thought, I guessed. You had said at one point when you were watching you, like, I have a funny feeling they're going to make Icarus the bad guy here. He's going to be the one.

And I was so right. And I was looking for it right away. And they didn't do that in the comics. They don't do it in the comics, right? And so he's like, they pretty much went like anti-superman with him. Yeah. Is what they did. Like he's the Superman character.

He's got all the Superman powers. He does. He's got, he's got, he's got, that's everything. Yeah. But he's the one that's been working to make sure that the eternal is protected. He reminded me a little bit in the same vein of what, um, the peacemaker was in the suicides. Yeah. Where he's got this mission.

He believes in it. He's not doing it for evil causes. He's doing it because he believes in it. Yeah. And so much so that he turned on, um, on, um, on some. Elma Hayek in order to do so. And she's like, that, that was, there was like a moment of, I don't know, there's a quigon or whatever it might be, but there was a moment of pure disappointment.

Yeah. In which she's like, oh, I, I failed you. Yeah. And that's what I loved is every one of those conversations. A lot of people are like, they just talk a lot. I'm like, yeah, but they're giving you so much with these dialogue. And you have, you have these actors that are at the top of their game. Everyone's performance in this, I think, are exceptional.

We talked a little bit about Angelina and Joe Lee, not distracting. But she's in every scene. riveting while not pulling you, pulling focus. So I love for me that we believe Icarus's betrayal and I love how they land it with the metaphor of Icarus. I love that we've got these beautiful moments where

you feel the betrayal from every character in a different way because Sprite loves him and because Gemma loves him and Gemma also loves our other Stark and we've got all these different things. But at the same time, the beating heart of the film is about whether or not humanity is worth saving. And at the end of the day, that's a question I personally ask all the time.

Like, I'm an optimist that doesn't like a lot of people in 2021. Right, right. So, like, I love that the question this film asks, isn't about a space portal or about these, like, gray minions, like so many movies are in comic book space. This is about whether or not people as an entity are worthwhile. Right. And I don't know. And I love that.

Right. Yeah. I mean, they do bring that up for sure. The things that have happened inside of this and in general. And the fact that this, what are they, this, I'm not going to, I don't, if you're finding this show for the first time and you want me to be the guy that knows all the names and You've come to the wrong show. That's why Coy is here.

The Sentinels. Is that with the... Celestials. Celestials. Thank you. Yep. The Celestials are the ones that this big kind of massive beings that are not necessarily good or bad.

They just are. And they just, you know, and here's this one that's been basically blowing up worlds from time after time after time. It's happened many times over in different multiverses, right? That's what I picked up out of it. Basically, what they do is they create. So in order to create, they need fuel. And what I loved about this is in the time.

trailer, they go, hey, why weren't you guys here for this war or for Thanos and all these things? And this is the biggest spoiler I can give. So please, if you've somehow lived through these spoilers, leave. See the movie. The thing they're saying is that we are fuel. We are the thing that allows this to exist. So because of the snap, we depleted, because of everyone

coming back, that was a surge of energy that allowed a celestial to be born. They need a catalyst. All we are humans, all we are is energy to these cosmic beings. So the question you get to ask is, are we selfishly as people more worthy of creation than potentially billions of other entities

because without the celestial, there will not have these other planets. And the internals feel that we are. Because they selfishly have survived with us. Right. And that's what's interesting is, these aren't necessarily good characters. Right.

Well, they have. They could have chosen wrong. They could have. That's true. And it's funny because it just depends on, it's like a certain point of view. Yeah. Because you look at like the character

of Angelina Jolie, who is Thina. And she, what's the, the thing called that she has, that they think that she has, the sickness, whatever? Mind weave, mind, mind, where, mind where she's got mind wearing. So that's right when I went to the restroom. So right as I said, boy, I'm like, fill me in. He's giving me the mind wary thing.

And I come back and she's, and she's kind of flipping out. And it's not because she's bad. It's the opposite. It's that she's actually remembering. Yeah. And that she's playing into this thing. She's going against the Eternals who are to a lot of people, especially the beings, the, what's the main

ghost dogs that are running around the thing? The main, the reason why they're... Oh, the devians. So the deviants are... Ghost dogs is great. Right, so they look at Ghostbusters dogs. So, and they're running around the joint, which I thought they, they developed pretty well, too.

I liked what they did with them, because I was worried they were just going to be like these mindless beasts. Exact same. What in the comics? They know that they grew them so genius because they almost were the heroes too. Right.

The devians are kind of humans dealing with aliens. Like, they're dealing with something that's more evolved from them. Like, if aliens invaded the plane, planet tomorrow, they clearly got here somehow. We don't have interstellar travel, which it means we're the dumb ones. To me, I love that the devians kind of represented how we would encounter aliens, these god creatures, and they're just trying to keep up.

Deviants didn't do anything wrong. They're just trying to do their job. And that's, and that was, it's just a matter of who was lied to what was there. What's the reason? It's the overall mission. Yeah. And so that's what continues to happen throughout this entire thing and how time just moves. And then our boy, Irish guy.

A druid man. This guy is fantastic. Barry Keone. I always remember Barry Keone from Dunkirk is where he's. stands out and he's in other, he's in some other things too, but that's the one that he stands out to me though. But he's so good in this movie because his character, when he sees the mind-wary thing happen, he's just like, no. Yeah. What do you, what? You're going to erase her memories? Yeah. No, you're not going to do that to her. And then, and he's like, I could stop all

this fighting and nonsense. Like, I have the power to do that and you're not letting me do it. Yeah. Like, no. And you know, and you see the manipulation after you find out why. You see why they need that manipulation, why you need these wars to keep going, why the Celestials, which just adds more subtext to each and every character. I also love that the character that controls others' minds is paradoxically the one that doesn't want her mind lost. There's little choices like that where anyone could have said, no, no, we got to save Angie, but it's him. And he also, and he has this relationship, who's the Flash in this one, the girl? Oh, the girl, that's one of the names I don't actually know, Macari, Macari. She, and so she's really, like,

and she's another one, she's got this relationship with him. They set that up really well. Yeah. Olden times. And I love the Flash. dashbacks into the different Babylonian era. And how they're just kind of walking around doing their thing. And they keep it quiet. And they're able to, you know, that whole scene where he's basically, they start fighting and manipulates him to stop fighting. And they said, don't get involved in that.

Don't do it. There's some really like moments in there that stand out that show you a lot of who they are. And then you get the inventor. Yeah. I love. Oh, dude, I love that scene of fastos when he's going, when he's like, I have this thing that they can do and bring it up now. And they're like, if you introduced to this.

to them now. They're going to lose. They're not ready for this. He's like, fine. How about a plow? Yeah, give them the plow. So we see the evolution of mankind through a comedic joke that actually feels totally appropriate. Yes. It's, like, I don't understand how this movie is rotten. I'm, I'm so personally, this is my hill to die on 2021. I'm personally invested in this doing well. From critics wise, I don't know. I'm curious how the audience is going to, this is, this is, this is, I'm wondering how, you think audience scores 40? You don't think they're going to like it as much. I was on that page, but I also think that you might get a buck the system because the, a lot of times when the critics are this, the rebellious. Yeah, I could, I hope is, because this isn't a movie, to me,

like Halloween kills should be at a two. Yeah. It's at 35 or something. Yeah. I, that is, that is super high. These shouldn't be in the same conversation. No. As far as like 30% away. So what is that 40 now? This one, this one is at 68. 68. I'm saying the audience is going to be lower than the critics because critics have read like, I don't think so. Really? No, I don't think. so. I did before. Okay. I think it's the opposite now. I think I think audiences are going to like this. I just don't know if audiences are going to be down for conversations because a lot of people complain about Loki. People think Loki's not good and I think that's the best thing that's done on TV. That's why I'm wondering what this conversation is like even in the comments of this of this or even

because you're the first person I've talked to that loved it as much as I did. I know people that have liked it but no one except and it's ironic because you and I saw it together and we walked out like changing cinema and now I've been like oh no. No people we were with Roka was behind us right and Roka's set out for a second time because he took it, he took Shannon. He hated it. Did he hate it? The first time he said he just liked it and then they came out like Vitrol. He came out, like he came out. He caught a promo on it.

Yeah, he went Roka outlaw. Like now he's outlaw against it. Oh, see, I, maybe that's, you know, a lot of times people will, once it comes a little bit more common and stuff they see like there, there's more people on kind of his side too, right? You get the energy from them. For sure. Whereas I talked to Campi after and we had a great talk about how much he loved it. He was in between you and I.

Like, I think this for me is in my top 10 Marvel. And for him, it was like in the 15 range. And I feel like you're at like 12, 13. I don't know yet. I want to see it again. Okay. I'll tell you, like, there's certain movies, like, I don't want to ever see again in the Marvel.

If I never have to see Guardians of Galaxy 2 ever again, I'd be okay with it. Yeah, you know, there's a specific thing against that one. I remember that coming up. Don't like that movie. But this movie I loved. Yeah. I thought her style worked really good for it. I loved the characters.

I like the ending scene when they have Icarus and they're all banning against him Right? And then you have and then you have like this whole And you feel it. You care about them hurting about hurting him Because he doesn't really I mean they have to all come together even with him Yeah. In order to do it he finally snaps out of it You know and he and he does and that's so human and it's great through gods we see humanity Like how often are we just following rules? Like I mean maybe it's because I'm a burner

Maybe it's because I like hallucinogens but often I look at the world and I go like how are we so in line with yes and to all of these horrible atrocities we do? We so often commit these things like one example on the way here. I looked at gas prices and I was like, oh God. But at the end of the day, we're using the planet's blood to fuel our cars to do stuff we don't actually need to do. And it's insane to me that we're like, that's normal because of how long it's been going on.

We're just the same as Icarus here. We're just following someone else's credo. Gas should be $20 a gallon. It's insane that we don't have things fixed by now. So to me, it's crazy that we're all looking at these characters, and I understand each of their arcs. And then for people to say the movie is bloated, you couldn't cut anything from this film to me. I don't think it's bloated at all. No, no, no, no. I would have loved another 30 minutes.

Something that someone said, and I don't know who said it. And it's the same own thing that I think people get tired of hearing me say. But I do feel like, Dune, love Dune as a two-part movie. I'm all for having it as a series, but in where they're going with it. But that movie as it was, love it as a movie. Sure. I could have seen this as a series. Well, loved it.

I would have loved it. I think the Eternals might have suffered from the same thing that many Saints and Newark suffered from. That there's so much going on. And I thought it was developed very well, Eternals, right? That they had some good characters in it. But I think that if you turn that two hour and 40 minute movie into an eight episode mini series of the Eternals, I think you accomplish more and I think you get more people on your side. But again, we haven't seen what the audience says.

Maybe the audience, maybe the audience feels like us. Maybe we are, maybe we represent the audience. Maybe we just two idiots to love the move. You know, it's like, It's tracking well opening weekend. I'm curious about the drop off and I'm curious about the fan immediate reaction. I'm wondering, because I still, I remember after watching it going, I was confused. And I was definitely wrong.

I thought, well, this is the critics movie, maybe not the audience's movie. Maybe it was wrong. Maybe it's, there's either two things I'm wrong about. Either it's a, the audience's movie, not the critics movie, or it's just our movie. Yeah, maybe it's just you and I be like, I'm glad they made that for us. Thanks, Chloe.

That's it. I appreciate this film. It is for us. It could be. Well, but 68% is still 68%. You know, it's still, it's not, it's not great. I think it'll land in the low 70s by the time at least 300 critics of scenics. Right now it's at like 150 or something.

So it's only half the critics. So normally a lot of times I'm in the, I'm in the majority of critics. Yeah. I'm so in the opposite. Yeah. So in the opposite. Like I really love this one. It's one of the more.

enjoyable Marvel movies. I wonder if my, if my wife would like it. I feel like she would like this one. I mean, it's long. We'd watch it over a couple, you know,

we'd watch it over a couple of days, but I feel like she would. I really love the fact that I can't wait to have conversations about each dynamic. I can't wait to talk about fastos and Thina. So one of the things I love most is that... That's why we're here,

you guys, you're right. One of the things I love most is that every single supporting character is actually a leading character of their own movie and it feels like it. Hence why I think the series would have worked. I would have loved an episode of Macari.

I wanted to know Macari more. But what I really love is that everyone's power suits their personality, but it doesn't feel like it's cheesy. So, like, Druig is my favorite character in the movie. And his manipulation of people feels so justified to his arrogance, but his arrogance doesn't feel short-sighted because he's a literal God. But as soon as he needs to be good, he is. Then you've got Fasdos who creates. He's a genius inventor. So what does he do?

He creates a family. So this man who's literally a God, what would his subconscious, want to feel connected to create. Then you've got Selma Hayek who's connected to the Celestials. She's someone that receives. She's someone that births ideas. She's our maternal one. She's the one that feels the most like Mother Nature.

Every single character. Those are three of ten. Athena. Who's Tina's guardian again? Fastos. No, no. Sorry, Gilgamesh. Gilgamesh.

So Gilgamesh to me is probably right there with me. My favorite characters are Druig, um, Gilgamesh. And then Thina. Yeah. Which is so crazy because I would have like Because the male do not and Johnny's in this And that's like very much like he's he serves the purpose of the Marvel character

Sure he's the Marvel character 100%. Um he's the one that tells the jokes. I was very nervous that it was going to turn into Guardians 2 with everybody gets a joke. He didn't. Him and his buddy from the films worked for me. Sure. Thought it was funny. Thought it was definitely a Marvel moment but I was like but it's a moral movie.

Yeah. So it works. It's not it wasn't it wasn't it wasn't placed in wrong way. And I liked him also because what I really liked about his character, he was all aboard and understood Icarus's message. Yeah. He just didn't fight. He just didn't, he just wasn't going to fight with him. Exactly. How many times did you like, fight? He was, he fight against them because he didn't want to turn. Right. But he understood the message. And it made sense to make him our eyeline. We need to feel torn so they give us the Marvel character that we're the most comfortable with.

We're going to be comfortable with the character that makes quips because that's what Marvel does. But he also. They make him the one that's the one that's. Yeah, and also it's so specific to like politics today. Yeah. Because if you're on whatever side you're on and it's like it's, it's embedded that you're not allowed to agree with the other side's opinion on anything. Yeah, you can't agree with some of their message. You've got to be 100% on anything. Yeah.

So him, he's going, I understand what he's saying. Yeah. I get it. I'm not going to fight against you guys. because we're family, but I share his politics. It's basically what he was saying. And I love that about that

because he's like, but you guys are my family. I'm not going to fight you. Right. I'm not going to fight against you, but I ain't going to do what you want to do. And then you've got a character who feels wronged by humanity,

but still loves them in Sprite, who also loves the person that's doing the wrong. So she's on board with him. And all he's doing wrong is following the orders that he's been for generations. So she's going to do for him

because she's following her heart. Exactly. So there was, I don't understand when people are saying there's not depth. And there's so much. There's more depth than this than most movies. So much with the characters and everything about them.

Like when you look at, again, with Joey, but Gilgamesh to me, in that storyline with Thina is like, I'm going to protect her. Yeah. And he's the one that's got, he's like, hear me out. You know, listen to me. Again, power subtext. He's the protector. He's the one that's got defense.

So he's going to defend his love. And I felt the most when he died. Yeah. When he died, I was like, I felt myself, no. Yeah. Like, and I don't do that a lot in the movies. Sure. Like, I'm fine.

Go. This one, I'm like, no, he was good. And then her pain, because she's such a great actress, you know, stuff that she did. You and I talked to last on our, I think that we were talking so fast about it. Like we both said, we think this is her best performance. We forget about girl interrupted and there's a lot of other movies. The rest, modern performance.

Best recent performance. What she's done in the last couple of years, I think, for sure. Yeah. Because this is, uh, there, because it is not easy for actors. It's, and I don't say easy this is the word, but it is for really great actors and actresses that go into, dramas and when they tune into it, you can get that performance out. It is very hard to bring out solid performances in these big budget action movies.

Yeah. It's getting a little better for people now because of the technology that they have. You look at like the void that they have it for like Star Wars. You can actually use that thing. And like that's helping, but like green screen and the day of green screen it's hard for actors to do that. You're acting off as a tennis ball. Like you're literally emoting off of this. Right.

So when you, that's, that's more or less what we're saying for what she's able to do and what she's able to bring to this role. of Thina. Like I understood her. I got her and I love the relationship between the two of them. And I like, I love that Angelina Jolie took a backseat. And then she didn't need to be. No,

I need this to be the Angelina Jolie movie. Not once does it feel like an Angelina Jolie movie. And I think that had a lot to do with Chloe Jow. Yeah, I was going to say I also love that Chloe was able to balance this many different personalities and this many powers and make it feel plausible. Yeah. I also love that she was able to incorporate her style in a way that didn't ever feel like

the studio was like, no, it feels like Chloe Jowley. It does. And I didn't love Nomad Land. I love this. Like this is making... Did you see the writer?

I haven't yet, which is ironic because I have cousins in it. It's John... That leads are Johnros. Oh, okay. And there's no other genres in the... Like, on IMDB, there's three of us.

Two of them are in that movie. I didn't know. That's fine. But I need to see her movie now because I'm actually glad I haven't seen it because I loved Eternal so much. It's making me want to revisit Nomad Land, which doesn't often happen with a Marvel movie where I'm like, let me go see this director I don't enjoy.

Right. Like I really am excited by the world she built here. I like that how she did it because it doesn't just feel like her movie though, too. Sometimes, sometimes I get... Like, we've talked about Sam Ramey or Tim Burton. Yeah. When they just make a Tim Burton movie, when they just make a Sam Ramey movie, it takes away from the movie itself. I don't feel like that happened here.

I feel like you, this is her style. Yeah. Like she used her style, but she used her style to tell this movie inside. And she didn't just say, well, I'm making the movie the way I want to make this movie. Did you like Guardians one? I did. Okay. So to me, that's the perfect example of James Gunn in a Marvel film.

Yes. Because it still feels like the tone and pace of a Marvel movie. but it's so James Gunn. And now because of James Gunn and Tyka, Infinity War is juicier for it. Well, I'll use the suicide squad for James Gunn. The suicide squad to me is the perfect. Like, to me, I think that Guardians is the first movie is great.

But he still had the PG-13 handcuffs on him. Sure. The Suicide Squad, to me, is one of James Gunn's best movies. I agree. Way better than any of the Gardens movies. I'm only using Guardians because the piece of the puzzle of Avengers. I understand, but I'm just mean that from your example as far as the director on the style, right? James Guns.

style and writing and humor and all of it plays in so well to the suicide squad because it tells the story all the way through and the people who are telling the jokes and the reason why because there's a lot of jokes in it. Oh, yeah. But the jokes hit inside of the character and the tone that's always set up and it doesn't seem like the Oprah, you get a joke, you get a joke, you get a joke, you get a joke. You get a joke. It didn't seem like that, right?

I agree. So that's why I think that worked for him. For this, for close out, like she, like those big sweeping long shots that she does in her movie. Like, yeah, you know that's her movie. but it's also because she's continuously telling the story. Like I didn't want to take my eyes off of this movie because it's gorgeous to look at. But the things that I think that didn't maybe play as well,

I don't know how much I really bought Gemma Chan and Icarus's relationship. That is my weakest link. Yeah. Personally. Yeah. I don't know if it's just actor chemistry. I bought her and Kit Harrington. In a second.

I didn't buy them or why she was in love with him as much. Yeah. I don't know if the actors put up too. too many walls because it was supposed to be so long ago. They kept mentioning like, you know, thousands of years. But their relationship in every other dynamic was so tight knit, even though they hadn't seen each other. I'm like, I wanted a little bit more friction between the two of them.

Yeah, and they just kind of get together because it almost is like, well, there's not, there's really nobody else. Where the two leads, I guess. What are you doing? All right, come here. Yeah. And, you know, because then it does play into that pain that Sprite has. It's like, why am I a kid?

Yeah. Why can I grow up? It's like, come on. And then she, like, her angle at the end when she wants to actually go out and become a kid. Yeah. Again, I thought that was great. I mean,

actually be a human. And I love Gemma when she was getting to be, I like her solo scenes. Like, I liked her at the school. I liked her when we're, and like it was as soon as there was a dynamic where I was like,

why is this a little distant? Why does this feel like it's over here? Right. Because I wanted her to feel like the family. Yeah, because they set it up with her where she was trying to hide this thing from him, from, from, who is Kid Herring?

Let's get into that also. Oh, dude, the Dane Whitman of it all. So tell me, so tell me, because I, one of my biggest gripes until, I asked you at the end

and the ending. One of my biggest scribes was like, oh, well, they kind of just downplayed him the whole movie because he's just sitting there, he's just a normal dude.

Yeah. Who does like, he's just kind of waiting on the phone. He's such a major thing to come. So that, that's when that, that criticism went away from me because I'm like,

oh, well, they're setting different things up for him. Yeah. So explain to me. So Dane Whitman is a character named Black Knight, and basically his, his sword is the anti-Meolnier.

In comic books, to wield meal near you have to be worthy. Yes. In this world, the Ebony Blade makes you worse. So you need to be bad and it makes you worse and worse. You make a bad decision.

He's a good dude that has to be bad to wield the power. So he's conflicted the whole time. It's fascinating character. It's kind of like the symbiate. You've got to be like, Venom wants to eat brains. It's not a bad thing. He's trying to protect people, but you have these nefarious urges. So it's almost a psychosis where he's like, I'm drawn to this bad decision, but I'm a good guy.

Take the ring. Exactly. So the whole like post credit scene is we get to see the Ebony Blade kind of already affecting him negatively, but he wants to go save. He wants to do something good and selfless. But that's going to inspire him. to make bad decisions. So someone says something to him off camera, right?

Is that Blade? Yes, Blade. I'm so excited. Like, that was our first confirmed Blade in the MC. So he works with Blade? Not generally, but the tone of the comics fit it. Like, Blade pops up and all sorts of stuff. What's tricky about Blade is Blade gets canceled constantly.

Blade comics, like start, stop in mid run. So Blade's more of a like pop-in character. Yeah, he didn't say it on Twitter. Yeah. Not, yeah, he didn't mess up. Blade Maharshal Ali did not say. Vampires aren't that bad. Hey, you get to sit.

No, bro. But Maharshal Ali, gets the chance to really invent a canon like Wesley Snipes did. Wesley Snipes wasn't following a comic run really. That's why it felt like such a good movie. With this they can do that while putting it in Midnight Sun's kind of characters like Black Knight. Midnight Suns

are like Daredevil type characters, Punisher, like anti-heroes. Right. So wait, so there's that scene where Black Knight will call him then. So when he's going to have that, he's having that conversation with Circe, which is also hysterical that's, yeah, the Starks are fighting over Circe. But he's

having that conversation where he's like, well, I got something I got to tell you. Yeah. About my bloodline or whatever to it, right? So it's genetic. So basically that sword's been in his family for generations. So since like the 1700s, that's been passed down and passed down, which is fun Game of Thrones. Yeah. Because that's like a, it's like a genetic thing. So his character, I think they're going to tie into the more

cosmic guardiansy side of things, but they could also make him like a street level anti-hero. They could go either direction. Because like, he's literally an all-powerful night that is he getting his own movie? Probably. I mean, you don't hire Kit Harrington to like. That's what you thought, right? I mean, because it was crazy that, you know, he didn't, when I saw it, I'm like, that's, I mean, he's a side character? They've been downplaying.

You knew right away who he was. Just the second. As soon as they, I mean, as soon as they cast him, I knew. But as soon as they said, Dane, I was like, oh, they're leaning all the way in. Because I was afraid he'd be like going by an alias because, like, the name Dane Whitman is, is only the Black Knight. So they then, so basically what they did there was, they said, comic book, people will understand.

And then casual people will not, and it'll go over their head and then they'll have to ask their friend sitting there. And then I'm sitting there as Wikipedia for you. That's exactly what it was. Because I was like, okay, so, all right, the second I saw him have that scene and he said about the bloodline, oh, they're doing more with him. Yes.

Because he's my favorite character from Game of Thrones. He's probably the Black Knight character is a bigger character than anyone Eternal in the comic books. So they're setting him up to be a giant character in the scope of things. How so? Because the Black Knight is such a wild card because you never know if he's going to be a good decision or a bad decision. But he's not a mortal. But he shows up in more things because of that. You can't have the immortals playing in small affairs.

The Eternals. can't do much. They can't do. They can only do celestial. But do they stick by that rule now that they've gone against? Basically, everything with Eternals, I imagine, is going to be deep space from now on. Okay. Because they've made this decision, and I think that Black Knight's going to go hunt and help. But I think he can come back and mess with Avengers, whereas Eternals can't. But couldn't the celestial, that's what is the celestial?

Yeah, Celestials. Couldn't the Celestial then just say, hey, you guys, you messed with my plan. And now, yeah. Totally. But that's what they have to defend now. Because in the comics, we have to fight Celestials all the time. In the comics, there's actual, like, You make deals with cosmic entities like the Living Tribunal, you make deals with time itself,

you make deals with... This is a crazy thing. It gets heady, man. But this is the thing that I'm so curious on how this phase of Marvel, and maybe we're seeing this with the critics, right? This could be the shift. Maybe you're losing people. Yeah.

Like the multiverses and all that kind of stuff. And maybe that's why I think that, like, the really... I'm very curious to hear the comments on how this plays, Like the really geeky people like us. We love Matrix and multiverses and stuff. There are other people that just like, yeah, just give me the, you know, this is the superhero, he does this, he does that.

That's why you do four movies a year. You do one of these for us. You do three mainstream. I know, but you still got to have good box office because you don't have a good box office. You can't do it. But the whole studio supports the indie choices, I think. It's like Pixar.

But you also look at, this is why Loki, right, when they went without series. Yeah. Because like, well, the multiverse could be a lot for people. And they did the series for it. did very well for them. So I think you play into those series. Oh, the TV side's going to be really wonky.

It's going to be a lot weirder than the TV and movies. So I'm wondering how they're going to. So who's going to, who's going to, do you think that's another question, all right? Because this movie, let's see how it does opening weekend. Yep. Because from what they're saying as far as the critics go, if you're right and the audience doesn't like it either. And it doesn't do very well week two.

And it turns out to be the, let's say the biggest disappointment since, Well, Thor, what was the Thor? Thor Dark World did pretty rough. But how did it do? Opening weekend was solid. It's solid, right? Okay, but so Thor Dark, Ultron, I know it did well, but people don't love it as much. What are the, and Hulk, right?

Yeah. I really like Hulk a lot. But those are the movies. They haven't really had a movie that has been very disappointing in a while. Right. In a long while. So if this one turns out to be, let's say the most disappointing, not for you and I. Sure.

For everybody else. Do they make an internals too? I think Kevin Faggy knows the way to keep every fan happy is to do a support, like the whole thing. I think a rising tide lifts all boats. So I think for every billion dollars an Avenger makes, you can take a little bit of a loss on an internals. Yeah. Like, I mean, I know they want to make money. I know it's a business.

I know all those things. But I don't think it's going to be such a major loss that it prevents the other movies from supporting this kind of thing existing. Because you can't tell these stories in an Avengers movie. You can't tell, you can't move your universe forward without these. So I think the cost of these movies at a loss is to allow bigger things in the future. Well, if you want bigger things in your future, then shave your balls. You have to do it. Excellent pivot.

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Chris was shaving his balls, it wouldn't have lost Gemma Chan. That's true. That would have been more friction there. Yeah. That guy's been around too long. He's probably got a bushel down there. Oh, you're doing.

Scottman. There's a lot going on in this movie, man. And it's on the music. Stunney. Oh, so good. Like, that music I want to, I'm looking forward for when it finally, I think it's out now. I got to check. I got to get it.

Because the music works, same composer for Game of Thrones. But I like that feel, like that epic kind of sword and sandals feel. There's great fights that they have, you know, in the village. Throughout. Like, there's a great first act, second, third act fight. And the third act fight is the most Marvel one, which was really funny for me because I'm a devout Marvel guy. and I found myself in the Marvel fight being like, I kind of want to talk some more.

Like I was enjoying the depth of conversation so much that I knew why they needed the fight they did. But the stakes were so beautifully well rendered. I wanted to like decide morality more. Yeah. Like I was so invested in the morality of mortality. That's what I liked about it also. You know, and I did.

And even with like, so the thing with Thanos is that when like you don't, you shouldn't agree with what he wants to do. Sometimes you get it. But you believe in why he believes it. Sure. That's the thing. Is he a bad dude?

Yeah, he is. Right? But he's bad because he's convinced himself that he's helping while he's mass murdering people. Icarus is different. Even though he's, you know, he's definitely not helping,

but I don't believe he's got an evil purpose. No. He's just doing it. He's just a loyal soldier who's supposed to be doing his job. And arguably he's the one that would have helped billions of other lives. Right. Arguably, Icarus is a hero to any other planet.

To any other planet. We're the problem. Right. He feels that. way, right? So that's a confliction of it all in the way that they work. Because it's also pretty heartbreaking that I found myself seeing. Well, there's a great moment between Fasos and Icarus when they're at his house and he's like, ah, this isn't even real. He breaks the thing. But there's like a sweet moment of them. They're friends. Yeah, they know each other. They're family. The whole thing,

all 10 of them feel like family's family. And in fact that they got to fight each other, like legit fight each other. And they know that this ain't going to be easy to do. And then for reminding them, because by the time I, we were recording this, I had to have. had probably been seen the movie in like three weeks or been like a month. About, yeah, about a month. So, Icris winds up helping. Yep.

And ultimately why they're all able to work together because otherwise it. He was the last piece of the family. Yeah, because she gets stabbed by Sprite. Yeah. Which she's pretty forgiving about at the end of the movie. Yeah. Yeah, you know what?

It's cool. You know, you want to be human? All right. Here's some powers. Here's some powers. It's like, yeah,

you know, there's a couple. I'm not going to tell you this movie. It wraps pretty quick. It wraps quick. That was a moment I struggled with. Hey, we're at 240. Rav it up.

All right. She's a kid now. You're blown the light by 20 minutes. Yeah, exactly. That's when, like I said, this movie's not perfect. There's definitely, like, you know, even at the end of it, even when they're all fighting together, they seem to band together pretty quick. That's what I mean.

And I would have loved another 20 minutes. I'd say five in the fight, two as a day new ma and about 10 more of like Macari and Gilgamesh. Like a two more characters, I would have liked to josh up. Me too. But you don't get that. But you do, you know, because they were still, I was a little unclear even what their plan was. At the end?

Yeah. How they're going to take it out? Yeah. Some of that I took as they were too. Yeah. But I don't know if that was me giving it too much grace. I think you might have been. And I've only seen it the ones.

I think I might have been like, I get it. They're confused. Because it did seem like they were like, like there was here. They all came. All these great minds. Because Fasto should have come up with some kind of plan. And same thing with, with, with our, I could just said his name. True.

Yeah. He figured his plan, and then the flash thinks he's dead. Yeah. He's not. He's just walking away. He's on the other side of the beach. Right. There was no, there was nothing there.

Yeah. I was like, oh, why does she think he's dead? We know he's not dead. We see him. We see him. Look at him. So like, oh, don't worry. It should be all right in a second because we know.

Because there's no, normally they set you up. They hide that character. Yeah. We know he's, we know he's not dead. You'll see him the second. He'd be all right. Yeah. Yeah.

He's good. So I thought that the end was a bit messy. Yeah. The third act is my least favorite, which is interesting because that's usually my favorite for this type of film. Like the big epics, I usually love the third act. The second act is my favorite act. And that's, I don't think I've ever said that about a blockbuster film. Because that's when you have the conflict have a lot of debate instead of stupid fighting.

Like, I love the second act of this film. It's, it's good. Also, the Celestials, the first time you see a celestial on screen. The moment you have that, like, sound design and you feel like you're in space with them. There's that, like, I fully leaned back and made like a sound. And I felt like I was in that. Yeah, I liked it too. I like the way that they set that up because it's pretty, it's crazy because you're like,

I wonder if they're really out there. I'll tell you what, Icarus though. Okay. He is in shape. I bet you he uses FitBod. Richard Madden. There he is. Fit Bodden along.

Richard Madden has been working out a lot. Well, actually, they're all jacked up in this movie. They're comic characters. Yes. But they don't. they don't repeat the same exercises because if you did you lose sight of your progress and it just kill their motivation so they don't do that the eternals don't do that they don't get stuck doing the same workouts they make progress towards the future and in order to do that you got to

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That's 25% off at FitBod. Dot me slash S-E-N-Live. All right. So, yeah, man, you got a, you got to, you're a health guy. Jim, dude. And muscle confusion is key. We talk about, like, plateauing sometimes your body adjusts to, even if you're not bored with the workout, sometimes your body is.

So you don't even realize which things are overworking and it's a better, like, a well-rounded approach. It is. So you just checked it out. We've just been with them for a little bit, and it's been fantastic for me. It should be fantastic for you. You're curious at this movie, man, how it's going to play.

I mean, we haven't talked to post-credit scene, the second one. Just, wait, what was the first one? First one was the Black Knight? Second one was the second one. Wait, was that the, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. The other one we haven't talked about. Oh, right.

Right, okay, this one. This is the one everyone was talking about. Yeah. And to me, all I knew was I said, is that Harry Stiles? That's all it. Like, you're like, oh, that's Thanos's brother. I'm like, they're not even per. He's not purple.

Yeah. So it's, explain all of this. So Eros is Thanos's brother, who is a very self-serving, uh, malicious character that often is like puckish. Yeah. Which is ironic as he's with Pip the troll who's modeled after puck. Uh, so, so you have a character that basically, from MTV, uh, puck from like Shakespeare.

Oh, okay. Like the Shakespearean content, but also MTV. So you've got a character who basically serves his own goals. We'll literally throw anyone under the bus, and he's a deviant in that way. But he's also a very powerful cosmic entity. But instead of Thanos, who literally looks monstrous, he's got this, like, debonair charm. Like, I would have cast. He's a bad guy.

He's a bad guy. I would have cast Leo as him in the 90s. Harry Styles is perfect. Harry Styles looks good in this. Hair styles is perfect. Like, I'm just saying like that archetype. So he shows up to the Eternals. Is that what happens?

Remind me of the scene. because all I remember is him and the troll. So they're in the ship and you see the troll first. If the troll walks up, Pat and Oswald killing it. It is Pat and he walks up and he's basically saying, your greatness, blah, blah, blah, and he's pimping out Aros who's about to walk up. And then Aros is like, well, if you guys are going to go try to save them, you need my help. So we're going to find out in whatever that is, like what that cost is, how he's trying to trick them.

He wants ultimate power. He might be on the team Celestial or there's something he gets out of killing a celestial. He's so self-serving. He's like the worst prince. So how are him in Thanos brothers? So I think they have one different parent. Like either a mom or dad, because that's the different parent.

So I don't remember which one it is. But he's not purple in the comics either. He's super handsome. And he's got the same creator. Actually, Pip the Troll, Thanos, and Eros are all Jim Starling characters. So they were all created by the same dude. So his real parents are the same.

So he's a very anticipated character? Huge. Well, to us. Yeah, yeah. To my people. But deep cut. Like, this isn't something even people that read comics in the 90s would know.

This is a 70s, 80s, cosmic thing. Interesting. Like he hasn't been around. He hasn't been utilized that much in the last 20 years. Donnie Cates uses him a lot. Yeah. So, well, he set up Thanos in the first Avengers.

Yeah. He's there for like a split second. So at that point, they didn't know what they knew what they wanted to do. Wasn't Brolin. It was my buddy Damien. It was it okay. Well, they didn't even know what they wanted to do with him at that point.

They just knew that you wanted introduce him. Right. They didn't have the whole. I think that eventually they had the idea of Infinity War or whatever, too, but they didn't know how they were going to get there. I think they got there to like phase two. Right. I think they were like, oh, right, we got this.

Is this the same thing? I think this time they think further ahead. I think back then they used to have a five-year plan. I think now they have a 10 to 15. I think there's too many moving parts to only go like, now, because people like, people saw Thanos and 5% of people got excited. 5% of people might get excited for arrows,

but now those people are going to Google and it's going to become 20. Like now there's more anticipation inherently. So you're not going to only appeal to this. You're going to have the people that discover him through this appearance and you've got to have Harry Stiles fans. So I think he's a good actor of this kid. He's also like so talented.

Like his music is great. I've been, I've been fucking with Harry Styles Independent shit. I just found out he was in one direction last week. I didn't know. It was the first time I felt like an old man. He's really, there's a boy band I didn't know about it.

He's really good. I'm a, I'm a fan. And I think he was really, he's this. I just was, I didn't know who he was. Yeah.

You told me because you were, you were geeking out next to me. And I'm like, I'm like, what's happening? Why are you excited? I'm like, you know what? Tell me afterwards. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. Because not telling you shouldn't be excited. I was just like, going to be it's going to mean a lot but I also wonder again what I'm so curious for the people that are watching this please be as active as you ever have you've never written a comment in your life in in watching any of these videos or anything write your thoughts on this film I got to know what the people think I want to know I want to I'm so curious to see if people thought it was too wordy if they wish that there was a little bit more action if the action worked if they did see like all

the the moments that we're talking about they didn't connect to it the same way I, you are going to, the way that we are established this right now is you feel at the moment, and I've changed my opinion from originally, but you feel critics didn't really get it too much, hence the 68%. You feel audiences are also, it's going to be lower. I thought originally walking out of the theater, this would be the first Marvel movie of the modern era in the like 75 to 78 range. And then I thought audience would give it 50 to 60.

Now that critics are at 60, I'm dropping my audience down to 40 to 50. Like I'm keeping that 20% proportion. I think it's going to be rough. I think that the audience score is going to be higher. I hope so. It deserves higher in both. I think so. But we'll find out.

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S-H-U-D-D-E-R. Do it. You got to go check out Shutter. You'll thank me for it. All right, Koi. We did it. We did it again. I feel like three to four weeks ago,

whenever we saw it, I've only liked this movie more. Me too. I want to see it again. Yeah, I'm really excited for round two. I don't feel that every time. I want to try to watch this in Dune back to back. Dude, I watched it.

I saw this on Monday and Dune on Tuesday. You did that. I want to do, I'm talking about it. Same day. Seven hours. Right afterwards and just lock the door and anybody in. So I had a really interesting thing where I was watching Dune and I was, and so I was watching Internals, I was like, I've never seen anything like this in

modern cinema. And then I watched Dune and I was like, I've only seen one thing like this in modern cinema. And now I want, yeah, it's just the feel. And I want to talk with people about what worked and what didn't with either because there's going to be things people don't like about doing. They might like an internal. It's the filmmaking. You put a different director on this and I don't think you feel the same way. Right.

Yeah. Anyway, go check it up. Please, please be active in the comments. And if you did not know already, Apple Podcast, Spotify, it is so important. That's why we have the great sponsors that we have today is because you guys have been downloading the podcast. You have been rating it. Follow us on Spotify, wherever podcasts are found. you guys are the best.

Thank you for joining us. Thank you to Corey Gendrew. Check us out on Wednesday. We're just going to be really good. I got Corey Coleman coming on. I'm double-toasted. That's going to be a fun show. All right, guys.

Thank you for joining us. Peace.