The Kristian Harloff Show - HOUSE OF THE DRAGON SEASON 1 Spoiler Review! | Game of Thrones | Ice and Fire

Episode Date: October 25, 2022

House of the Dragon concluded its first season. The Game of Thrones prequel show really surprised everyone with how engaging and developed it turned out to be. The emotional finale set into place an incredible background for season two. How was the overall season? How did it compare to someone who never read the books and for someone who had? In this season one spoiler heavy review, Kristian Harloff is joined by Movie Trivia Schmoedown legend Rachel Cushing Levine and they discuss all things from House Targaryen and the Hightowers. Enjoy this video. Please comment and subscribe. #HouseOfTheDragon #GameOfThrones #Targaryen #Finale #television OUR MERCH STORE IS LIVE: https://www.teepublic.com/stores/the-big-thing-kh-channel?ref_id=27393 AMAZON WISHLIST: https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/1KPH42T0TP0PG?ref=cm_sw_em_r_un_un_djbxgIW5ZQMMg PATREON: http://www.patreon.com/thebigthingshow SCHMOEDOWN ARCHIVE CHANNEL: https://www.youtube.com/c/TheMovieTriviaSchmoedownArchives Ask Kristian questions for next time! https://facebook.com/harloff Become a Patreon of the Schmoedown: http://patreon.com/schmoedown OTHER GREAT CONTENT: REVIEWS https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLSJdE28YyUT368qY7sfE0nKE4c04CqGvu TV REVIEWS https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLSJdE28YyUT1LU-t2Z9AD5UJDiWW4pS_E STAR WARS SHOW https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLSJdE28YyUT0XmfpbblkF9PY7uO2qhbN6 THE BIG THING PODCAST https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLSJdE28YyUT3KAwbzDsv6mdR-gwUiydQg FOLLOW KRISTIAN + FIND HIM ON CAMEO https://cameo.com/kristianharloff https://twitter.com/kristianharloff https://facebook.com/harloff https://instagram.com/kristianharloff Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

During the Jeep Memorial Day sales event, you can start doing more Jeep things with great deals on Jeep Wrangler, with the legendary 4x4 capability you've come to know and love, or the luxurious Grand Cherokee, with available three-row seating and technology that turns every drive into an adventure. There's only one most awarded SUV brand, build for it all and for everyone. Hurry into your local dealer today for great deals at the Jeep Memorial Day sales event. Jeep has won more awards over its lifetime than any other SUV brand, Jeep and the Jeep Girl are registered trademarks of FCAUS MLC. What's going on, everybody? Welcome to this very special episode of The Big Thing Today.

This is a, we don't normally do shows on Tuesdays, but today we are. And why? Because House of the Dragon, arguably one of the best, arguably not, it's the best show on television at the moment this year for sure. But I think it's one of the best first seasons of any show. I've never been as invested in a show as I have been for the first season of anything. And I don't know if it's because of the investment I had in Game of Thrones beforehand or just a brilliant writing of the show, the great performances. We're going to dive into all of it.

And there's so many names and there's so many things. And I make a thousand percent, a lot of mistakes every single time I bring up any single name. And I'm going to make sure that that's not going to happen today. Well, it will happen. I'm just going to have somebody who's going to correct me. And who better than the former inner geekdom movie Trivichwiton champion of the world. Rachel Cushing Levine is here to join me. We're going to talk about so much of everything that went down.

So it's very spoiler-heavy. If you haven't watched this season, please, please do it. And if you haven't already, subscribe to this channel, please do it. We're on the road to 70,000. We're almost there, everybody, but we need you guys to help. So please go ahead and do that. Please check us out. Same thing with Patreon.

You're not joining a Patreon. Please do it. We'd love to have you on the Patreon. My full reaction to the finale is up there, the full one. I have the cut one here, but the full one's up there. And that's it, everyone. So let's get to it. It's me, and it's Rachel.

And we're going to be talking about, you got it. Game of Thrones, House of the Dragon. Let's do it. What's going on, everybody. How are you? Nice to see you. Thanks for joining us. And everybody wants to talk about this full season.

You know, I'm going to screwing up all the names. So how about Rachel? Rachel is back, everybody. Rachel is back. I guess the first time really ever on the big thing, but you've been on S-E-N a handful of time. Yeah, yeah, the old-school setup. I walked in today and saw a whole new thing,

And you're running the whole show. I love it. What's funny is that people who don't know this, I've mentioned it in the past, is that Rachel, when I went out on my own the first time for like two or three weeks, but I was like,

I need something to set up here. And Rachel's like, I got a coffee table. I got a dining room table. I got some chairs. And for the longest time, it was great. It was a great table.

It was great chairs. But uncomfortable to do two-hour shows with, obviously. Very true. So we finally, thanks to the great people who put an Amazon list up and people really help.

helped and came through and Brett's been building this thing out. I'm not going to pretend I had anything to do with it, except, you know, trying to get people in here to watch the freaking things. But anyway, it's nice to see you. You too. How are you? You're having me. I'm good.

I am still reeling after that finale, even having read the books and knowing what was happening, I was still on the edge of my seat, which I say is a really good sign. What a crazy episode. Uh-huh. What a crazy episode it was. And I was like, and for people who have seen my reaction, you know how crazy it was. because I'm on the school of I don't believe in over-hyping reactions and sometimes I've been accused of you didn't even say anything.

You just sat there and, huh, huh, that was not the case for this one. I was jumping out of my seat and I think, and again, for spoilers, for people if you're over here watching, I don't know what to tell you, you're going to get spoiled. She lost two kids in that finale in a course of what, 24 hours, 48 hours, whatever the hell it was? Yeah, that takes, between episode nine and this episode, it only took place over about two to maybe three days total. Yeah.

Like that's a lot of stuff. All these domino pieces coming down to get us to the dance, which is what this whole season has been doing. But yeah, I was just so impressed across the board. Directing, acting, the pacing. Shout out to the editors. I'm an editor, so I always notice that. But yeah, just the perfect way to end the season.

He really was. And I think I saw, and this isn't going after this person. It's their opinion. but they had said that the show was too rushed and it never built up to anything. I thought the whole show was a buildup. I thought from the beginning episode, I thought people were going to be complaining. But there was a lot of episodes that no action really happened. But it wasn't about the action.

It was about the political intrigue. And I was talking to Brett Sheridan about it. And he was like, you know what I love about this show is that it really just focuses on this one storyline. I mean, there are these mini storylines, but the story itself is this one contained storyline about the Civil War. war between the greens and the blacks and the fight for the power. And the original Game of Thrones series is 75,000 different things going on. So, but overall, you like the setup and the buildup and all that. Yeah, I would say I liked the season and loved a couple of episodes.

Episodes 8 and 10 were both from start to finish in my mind, perfect episodes. I did sort of miss that Game of Thrones aspect of seeing this world. it felt confined. And that was just something I wasn't used to. And so on rewatches of the episodes, I sort of got a little bit more on board with it. I think the time jumps were a little tough, and a few characters got short shrift because of that,

like Lena Valerian, Harwin Strong, characters that, you know, I do love and are interested in based on the books, but the show had to make choices. And I'm always understanding of that. And generally speaking, I get why, they did certain things. If a couple of specific nitpicks, we could go into later if we want to.

But generally speaking, that's what they needed to do with this season. They shouldn't have gotten to the war this season. I'm glad they did not. Because you needed to set all the dominoes in place, going all the way back to King Jaharis choosing the realm choosing Viseris Ova of Princess Rhenis. And that is the first domino,

and then everything else had to fall in a certain ways. And I'm glad they, covered all of that within 10 episodes. Yeah, because, correct, because you, that's why I love having you on here also, is because you read the book. So correct me if I'm wrong, but what they said was that that,

that portion of, the king beforehand of Vassaris, is that? Oh, Jeharis was his father, and then Beceras, yeah. So Jeharis is the, is, yeah, what he, they showed that whole prologue in the beginning. That was like a very snippet of the book, wasn't it?

Well, the book actually has an, so book, Fire and Blood is a history. Okay. And it's like, it's written such that it sounds like it's a historian writing it. So think about the history books that you read in, like, high school. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it covers actually close to 150 years.

So it starts with Egon the Conqueror, goes through multiple other kings. King Jeharis has a lot of chapters, but they're not important to the dance story. Right. The only thing that's important to the dance is that when he died after 60 years of rain, and really built up the Targaryen name in that time, both his sons died. And that put the question of the succession up in the air. How do they die?

He died of old age. Oh, but his sons, two different tragic, one in a battle and another one in a freak tourney type thing. I see, I see. So, yeah, so it was, and then so his oldest son had a daughter, and the younger son had a son. Right. So who deserves the throne?

That's why the great counsel. And the majority of the Lord's, not like a slim majority of the Lord said, no, we're going with the guy. So Viseris, who had a lesser claim, if you consider in line, he got to be king. And it's important to establish that because here we go again. We basically face the same problem. Who do you have? Viseris has an elder daughter.

And then by a second wife, kind of down the road, has a son. What are you doing that? You know, the realm made one decision years before, but Viseras made a different decision, and there we go. But that's what I loved about Vassaris. I mean, he got a lot of shit in the beginning about, and because was he the best king in the world? No.

Did he want to be king? Not really. But he stuck to his guns when it came to Runeira. He stuck to his guns. And he said, and he knew from what everything that A-gun said and how it all played out that this is how it's going to continue on. And this is how you keep it in by keeping her as the rightful successor.

And that I thought was, he, and he said that to the end. And the most kingly thing he did was when he showed up at the end when he was on his deathbed. And basically goes to the dinner and says, stop fighting with each other. He's like, that's going to, you're going to bring everybody down. So please. And then he goes off and dies and says the wrong thing. And Allison capitalizes on it. Yeah.

Not my favorite moment. No, why? So not the Fissarist in the throne room. No, no. The part where he just doesn't realize that. incredible. Yeah. So for me, a couple of characters in this season made decisions and the show decided to kind of let them off easy. So I wanted Allison to have more, she should have made the decision not because she misunderstood what her husband said. She should have made the decision

because she is a smart person who loves her children and is ruthless enough to say, nope, this is what we're going to do. Is that what happens in the book? Yeah. Okay. But the book is thinly written. The book is 75 pages in what's going to be five seasons of this show. But the book clearly makes it seem like she knows what she's doing and she's choosing to put

Agon over Renair. Yes. Okay. And I... That's been a big question. Exactly. And the show has given her way more layers, which great, she needed more layers. I love the idea that her and Reneira were so close and that that split is part of

the split overall. book. It's like hinted at. Like all it says is that Allison was like one of the ladies of the court and whatnot. They decided to expand, which they needed to. And I'm so glad that they did. But I wanted Allison to take more ownership and not make the decisions that she made in episode nine based on misunderstanding. I wanted her to take more ownership of it. And similarly in this finale with Amand, you know, he and I guess a lot of fans, even those that have read the book, like that it was the drag. that sort of make kind of the decisions. But I felt, and again in the books, like, Amund makes that decision to go after Luke.

Yeah, but to kill him? What else would he be doing? That's the thing like if they're flying. Well, because it seems like he's, he makes the choice to try to get him to cut his eye out. It's always stuck with him, and they even said it in the thing afterwards. It was this little boy that was still there,

that was still getting picked on, and that it finally comes out of him, and he wants to do it. just keep it on on Luke the whole entire time, just kind of bully him the entire time. And then what I loved about the dragons is the dragons like, hey, yeah, okay, guys, you guys are messing around. Enough of this shit.

Like, and the little ones like, the little dragons, like, okay, this, you know what, F this big guy. Stop bullying me. I'm going to fire. And I'm going to put some fire on your ass. And the big guys, like, okay, now I'm going to chew you up at each out. And then so, because they can't control them as much as they think that they can. And that's an important point because dragons are not.

slaves. Right. Dragons choose their riders. They have a bond with them, but we've seen. You have to train the dragon. The dragon has to accept you as its rider and your decisions, and you have to be forceful with it. And that point is good.

But the second Amund got on Vagar and chased after Jace and Erick's, he wasn't just going for his eye at that point. That was what he was going for in the hall. He wasn't going to kill him. He just wanted the eye for an eye, literally. But once you're up in the air, it's like, Like you're chasing him to what end? To kill him.

And then to say, oh, no, it was Vagar. Not my favorite. Okay. Again, agency and taking ownership of the decision you got on your dragon and you're chasing this little dragon and this guy. Nothing good can come of it. Exactly. For sure. For sure.

And I understand that. But I loved the moment. And I mean, well, I don't love the ending of the moment because the choice itself, storytelling-wise, loved it. Thought it worked. And it got a rise out of me. got out of rise, a lot of people, and it's certainly going to get a rise out of Renara. Which is the point.

Yeah, which is the point. And that's going to now turn her into basically that conversation that she had with Damon, where he's like, what are you doing? Let's go to war. She's like, I'm going to hold it together. Now it's not about holding it together anymore. Now you killed one of my kids, and you could even blame the unborn kid because of the stress that you put me up by just not giving me my throne. Absolutely. So the episode did a really good job of centering on the idea of nobody wants to make the first blow. Right. Because the people that are in charge, essentially Allison and Renera, are, I mean,

the show has gone to great lengths to differentiate how women would rule versus men. And there's been a lot of great stuff that it's not just like all the cliches of how a woman, like being super emotional or super forgiving or whatnot. That's not what they're doing. But they're more level-headed. Yeah. And so Rainey's didn't, you know, fire everybody at the end of episode nine, which I was kind of like, okay, but then she had the line in episode 10,

and it's not her war to start. And then Renira doesn't want the first blow either. And honestly, Allison doesn't either. It's her son who, you know, his inner rage boils over and we get what we get. But I loved the idea that, like, everybody's dancing around it in the sense of, don't want to plunge the realm into war. We don't. We know that if it's necessary, it will happen and we'll be ready for it.

But what can we possibly do to maybe get around? Because they offer, because they offer a really good deal. Even, even Damon at one point's going, huh, but then he gives the amazing line. Oh, my God. I was losing it. Like his line, Matt Smith, by the way, is just, everybody in the show, firing at different levels. But Matt Smith was my favorite when he came into it.

and when he first showed up, and I'm like, okay, because I've always been a fan of Matt Smith, but I just don't ever think he's had that really juicy role. He was great in the crown. He was great in his other. He's been great in Dr. Hu. He's been great in these things. But it just not that one to where it was like it just transferred over to everyone.

And then he shows up and you automatically think every, because of Game of Thrones before, everybody starts comparing everybody to everyone else. So, okay, so is he Joffrey? Is he, is he, is he Bolton? Who is he? and he's no one even, he's a brand new character that can be loyal, he can be crass, he can be brash, he can be,

there's just so much that Matt Smith brings to this character that is, he became my favorite right away, but that's before I knew anybody else either. Sure. And the, you know, the drawback to the season is so many actors having to play different roles. With at least Damon, we got Matt Smith all the way through. So there's a lot more to latch on to.

And you can see the progression with him, too, because we are covering like 16, 17 years over the course. But, yeah, he's magnificent. And the idea, like you said, is that it's a unique take on Targaryens. Because the saying is if Targaryen is born, you flip a coin. Are they going to be crazy because of all that inbreeding and crazy, you know, god complexes and dragons and everything? Or are you going to get somebody that is... Like for Saras.

Yeah, who's able to understand what's going on around them. and plan accordingly. Damon falls in the middle. He does. And I think that's great. I do as well. And I just, it's,

there's so many good characters. So what we're going to do is for this particular video, we're going to, I pulled a whole bunch of images from the season. Because then there's a lot of shows that will go through each episode and all the way through. But I wanted to do kind of a hodgepodge of things where we're going to bring up an image.

And I don't think we'll even get to all the images, but bring up an image and kind of just dive and see where it goes. That's the basis of this channel in general is like, just straight on conversation. The way I want to talk to Rachel about this show the way I would do if the cameras weren't on. So that's what we are going to do in just a moment here. But Rachel, I didn't want to ask you,

why do you think that they started with this storyline? If it's this big history book, right, of the Targaryans, why didn't they start with Aga? Because I think they wanted more dragons. Okay. I honestly think, like, if I, you know, I'm an HBO executive and I'm trying to think of what the audience would most want, I would think they'd go to the period

where they're the most dragons. one of the things Game of Thrones did so well was those dragons looked incredible and now they get to do there's going to be 17 dragons seen at some point over the course of this series and the idea of dragon on dragon we hadn't really seen that and then also what there's no better story than a family that implodes yeah you know like nobody can take down the targaryans except the targaryans they do it to themselves and I love the the idea of of exploring that. So to me,

Agon the Conqueror is, I honestly think that probably will be a series or maybe even a movie at some point, how it all started and everything else. Honestly, Jaharis's reign has a lot of stuff that's really great in it too. It's smaller, though.

And then you have the Blackfire Rebellion, which happens after the dance, but there's no dragons. So those are like the big pieces that happen in Targaryen history, that 300 long stretch before we get to what happens in the Game of Thrones. And I have to admit,

it did not surprise me, When they looked at that stretch and said, which is the contained story that we can tell that the audience would be most excited for. What was the Naomi Watts one going to be about? Do you remember? That was going to take place like 10,000 years prior to the events. There would be no dragons. It wouldn't be Targaryens. It would be all in the north.

It would be all about the original Night King and how it came to be. Interesting. And all of those. It would have been, this is the show about fire. That would have been the show about ice. Interesting. I think it was smart that they waited on that one because I think this is, what they did so far and building this up because I just,

I do think, I understand your points completely about the, when you get used to Game of Thrones where you want to see all those different things. I like the idea of the contained story because of what the story is called. It's called House of the Dragon. So to me, when they pitch that, I'm like, oh, this is just going to be about them and the Targaryens. And I'm interested,

that was one of the things I was always interested in with the Valerian Steel and the stuff that came through with John Snow and DeNaris and all that. So I was like, this is going to be very interesting for, me if they set it up the right way and they did and it it was just mesmerizing to me from start to finish but as i mentioned so let this right away the idea of where for people who are listening on audio i have a picture up of um when millie edcock playing rinerer um ranero had was courting people but she didn't want to be but the people are courting her excuse me and sarah's like you got to get married she's like fine she's going through and she's there with sir christin and that seems

alone was great, but it also, what I loved about it was it just showed you really who she was. Yeah. She, she, I like the development, because I think we meet her in the first episode. She's somewhere probably, it's nine years into Viserius's range. So she's like nine or ten years old. I mean, Millie Alcock didn't quite look that young, but the idea is we see her really young. And then Millie Alcock takes us through five episodes where she gets all the way to about 18, 19. Yeah. And there was a performance. progression there and I like that and I like that the show didn't hide behind like she's not she's a little warped a little warped and a little bitch and sometimes and she says it and she says it in the finale she

her her her son's like I want to be like you perfect she's like I'm far from perfect yeah absolutely she owned that I love that she's got to a place where she owned it when she's young she's just I'm the king's daughter I get whatever I want I can break the rules all this stuff and that's why she's so well contrasted to Allison and so you see all of that and I just liked the idea that by the time you get to her being courted by all these people, she's come to recognize that she has to do that, where she'd been kind of kicking and screaming for a while. But now, you know, she's learned about the song of ice and fire. She's starting to understand the importance of that and that she has to do her duty. But she's still going to do

it in the Rainier away, which is with a lot of eye rolling and a lot of like, I am not going to marry somebody who's twice my age. I'm not going to marry somebody who's, you know, half my age. And I'm not going to do this. I want to do this on my own terms. Right. And then there's the Kristen Cole of it all, too. Oh, man. And that alone, because talk about a character shift from him as well.

Like he's, he just reminds me, he's like about as conservative as it gets, right? When you look at what he, because there's a lot of stuff, when he shows up in the beginning and he fights Damon and beats him in that thing. You're like, okay, well, who's this guy? Is this the new John Snow? Who's this guy? Right. And you look at how tough he is. And then that that's kind of the first thing that she does to show the kind of ability that she has,

she makes him the head of the king's, was it the head of the king's guard? Not the head, but. Yeah, the commander, Lord Commander. Right, she means Lord Commander. And he's got no experience, really. He's got experience in war, but he's not like a noble. He's not, he comes from, he's like, a poor guy.

Yeah, exactly. His father was a steward to a noble house. Right. But you can raise people from humble origins to knighthood if in the fighting, they do something great. And he did in the Dornish marches. And so that's why he was raised to a knight. but he still didn't have like the lordship aspect of it.

And the actor's name is what, Fabian, what is it? Oh. Or whatever. But he looks like a Fabian, by the way, this guy. And he's so good in the role. He really is. But he was the only one that I said because they were, once they did the time jump, they recast everybody and they gave him like a few gray hairs.

Yeah. I mean, the time jumping was, it was necessary, but it wasn't the show's finest hours. Risky. It's, you know, and again, too, with Dana, I mean, Matt Smith doesn't look any different. He has various haircuts. It really, really is. The only person they did it well with was Viseris.

Right. He actually ages over the course of. And that's also because of his disease that he's got. But absolutely. And obviously, the aging with the changing of the actresses in both Olivia Cook and Emma Darcy, who I knew nothing about going into this. And Emma Darcy is a power house. when Emma Darcy shows up and I was like, okay, the way that they introduce Renara in that time jump from having the birth and then similar to what we have to then see in the finale, but this time just showing how powerful she is, Renera.

And that is a way to be thrown into an audience because the whole audience is going, well, why are you getting rid of Milliancock? She's amazing. And then Emma Darcy's like, hold my beer because watch what I'm about to do. And wow, from... Give Emma Darcy and Emmy, both Emma Darcy and Patty Adcock. I mean Patty Adcock. Patty Adcock. Paddy Konstadine tomorrow.

Give them both Emmys. Yeah, I agree. They are... They encompass all of the... All of the range that exists within Renier. She is such a fully fleshed out character. Yep. And Emma Darcy just encapsulates that.

And you go from the first time we see her, you know, having given birth to Joffrey and then Allison making her go to the Queen's Chamber. It's like a crazy scene all the way to the last shot of the finale where they just, they act from behind. They're acting. I was like, and then they turn. And Emma Darcy has the look on her face, the look that that's it. Yeah.

You struck the first blow. we're in. I'm going to war with you. It's perfect. Perfect. It really is. And the same thing, I mean, because you looked at, there really has not been a performance in this show. Sometimes I'll be like, I don't know. That wasn't the strongest performance by somebody in a very powerful show. I haven't seen a week performance. Do you have anyone that you go, I don't know. No. Everybody's so good. And what I will say is, and maybe you know better than I, Do you know the names of the two showrunners?

It's Miguel Spachnik. Oh, Miguel Sopachanick, who was involved with Game of Thrones. He directed most of the well-known episodes, Hard Home, Battle of Bastards, all of that. And then... Ryan something? Ryan Condal, thank you. So Miguel, it was pretty well-documented, walked away. Yes, he's no longer...

Because he was more of an executive producer, so he was taking on, like, the David and Dan Roll from before with Ryan Condal. And then he also directed several episodes of this season. And I have to assume that that was just a lot. And he has other ideas and a deal with HBO and everything else. They need him back. I mean, well, I won't say that until I see what episode two or season two is. See, I...

You want the guiding hand? Every interview you hear from directors and even in the last, something I picked up in the last thing of the finale when they were like, well, Miguel wanted this, mentioned Miguel wanted. Miguel wanted this, Miguel wanted. It was a theme. Yeah. And I'm not taking anything away from Ryan.

But it was interesting to me that they were never sitting together, ever. Right. That's true. And then there's rumors that didn't really get along with some of the people back there and didn't, and then conflicting and walked away. You got to get him back. If he wants to come back and you can get him to come back, you got to get him to come back.

I feel that if he, because I think a lot of times people don't pay attention to it and how much that helps. If he was as much of a creative guideline as I think he is, I think so, yeah. I think you need him back. I wonder if they could, I believe he will still be credited as an executive producer. Oh, sure, sure.

I wonder if maybe the deal could be he could executive produce, but in a hands-on creative way, but not direct anything. I hope so. All right. If we move on to some more of the stuff here, obviously, like I said, Hodgepric, I'm going to click on a random one. And we get, this is a great, great moment. What a moment this was, though.

So, again, people, audio listeners, right now we have Hightower talking to his daughter and making that move saying, hey, listen, Sarah, he's a widow. Go in there and go talk to him and see what happens. And I'll tell you, when you first have that moment, because you're so accustomed to Game of Thrones, you're thinking, oh, this creepy guy just wants his daughter to go bang the king, right? And it's like there's more to that than he's playing long.

I had this conversation the day. If you're going to compare characters to other Game of Thrones characters, to me, he's the most Little Finger out of all of them. Because someone said that they were talking about Laris being Littlefinger. He's more, well, Leris is more when it's Bolton. And he's, he's various too. Yes, yes.

But less, but less honorable. Right, right. I know what you mean. Like the kind of game that he plays. Yeah, absolutely. They come from the same school. They just play the game a lot different. He's like Little Finger in the, what's in it for me?

What is, every move I make, it's about my, what kind of power, influence, feed action I can get. Right. Like, it's all about that. Yes, yes. I get that. And I think, but I just, for me, the high tower of it all was that. It's that structure of how to do it and playing that long game from the beginning. Absolutely.

He is loyal hand, absolutely, and he's trying to tell his hers to make the moves and do everything that he needs to do for sure. But he's also always working for his self-interest, always from the beginning, for not having Damon in there. And Damon, what an interesting world it would be if Damon was said as hand of the king. Yeah. It would be crazy. It would be crazy, but what an interesting role. But they probably would have stuck together with the target. It probably would have been a lot more war.

Absolutely. But they would have probably stuck together. Which wouldn't necessarily benefit the realm. True. It's weird. Yeah. But that's the interesting thing about Otto is he manipulates Vassaris so easily to, for his own gains, but his own gains exist within the realm being at peace.

Right. Which is a good thing. I know. It's like he's trying to make, he's trying to make the right moves, but he doesn't. And it's, and now, but again, it's self-interest once he gets his daughter there and knows that that they're not. going to support the majority of the realm's not going to support a woman queen so he's like get in there give this guy a son and then once he does they're going to support it we'll get him the son and then

creepy pigeon boy is born and he's that he's come on he's tossing off on pigeons what's wrong with that i can't i don't think i should repeat what damon calls him in the in the finale episode but it is just well you can say remind me because i because you didn't write it no i didn't and i i won't be able to but it's like, it's alluding to like a cowardly idiot, cunt of a creep. Oh, yeah, right, right, right, right. I went nuts when he said that. Like, I laughed, yes. Oh, Damon, but also, that's kind of how he comes across.

He's out 100%. He's standing in the window doing disgusting things, and he doesn't even want to be the king. The only reason he's holding up the sort of the end because he's like, oh, I like this now. Right. They're actually cheering for me. Not realizing that the common people will cheer when basically they're told to. And as long as food is in their mouths and there's, you know, they're not in war. Oh, this is the guy we're supposed to root for now?

Yay. That's how it goes. 100%. Yeah. So, but Hightower knows, you got to put somebody, he's playing that move. And he creates Agon, really, from doing this, this move. And Alicent is hesitant, but she does it. And what I loved about it, too, and that's what I also, a lot of these times you're thinking,

okay, this is going to be pretty black and why she's going to use the king. She's pretty honorable to the king. Yeah, I wouldn't call it love, but I would say that she understands him, she likes him, she recognizes in him that he should never have been king. He doesn't have the makeup of somebody who understands how to rule. He is all, he's going to equivocate, he wants to hide, make decisions, push off decisions, take the middle line, he doesn't like all of it. Like the very first line you hear from him, he's telling a joke in the small council in the first episode,

because he's just a guy and he just loves his histories and his model and he's not equipped. Yeah, she says it as much to Rainis. She says if it was up to, he'd be living on a farm doing every, what he's doing it. He doesn't even want to be doing this. That's what he wanted. But it's not what fate had in store then, the realm. And so he's doing the best he can. And ultimately, he's not doing a super terrible job because the realm is at peace, which is a good thing.

Right, right. But it's very interesting to see his relationship with Allison because she's the first person to treat him like a human and not as either a king or potentially a pawn in some way. Not afraid to tell him. She's not acting like she wants anything for him. She's actually just saying, I'm here to support you. Like she says to him, when my mother died, nobody told me that they were sorry. And so I just came here to tell you I'm sorry if your wife died. That's empathetic.

That's understanding a person on a human level. And Viseras just needed that. And I thought that, so that's a genuine thing. But it's also tied up in Allison's upbringing, which is the contrast to Reneira. Alicent has been brought up the way women are supposed to be of Hannibal women in Westeros, which is obedience. You learn all the important things. Proper.

The proper, the needlework, the singing, all of that, like, the stuff that really, they don't care if you're super smart or you can, you know, rule or anything. like that, your role is going to be married off for an alliance somewhere down the line. And she's accepted that, and she's internalized that. And that's why she's like the one who's so shocked at sleeping with somebody before marriage. And, you know, all of the things that, Reneer of breaking the rules, Allison is upset by and angered by because I was never allowed to break the rules. Why do you get to? Exactly.

And even then with that whole thing, and they probably brought it back in the finale with the book, the page, and how that. that and and and where you go back to the finale where high tower offers her that page again and it's such like a conniving thing but yet it's genuine at the same time right right so it's like he knows that you're like yeah this a good move and it's legit coming from alison like please just offer this to her like i don't like because she's she wants her son there she whether or not you know in the in the series it's it's seen you can interpret it what she heard from vassar's two different ways right you can she's smart enough to that this guy's on his deathbed and is talking gibberish at this point,

that maybe he's not talking to me, but I'm going to pretend that he is. And I'm just going to say, that's exactly, I'm going to, because you want to believe something well enough, you'll believe it. That's when it happened, that's what I thought was happening, and that's what I was okay with.

But in episode nine, the Green Council, the way she, you know, says it to her father, and he, like, turns and looks, and he's like, she's like, no, really. And the way she tells her, son about that in the carriage the way she reacts badly in the council meeting when everybody else is like okay good let's put in motion all of our plans and she's like plans you were planning this even without me without this uh okay given to me by vassaris her reactions in episode nine made me think

it was less the i'm going to believe this because i want to believe this and because it actually helps me get to the goal which is i want my son on that throne i think you could probably make an argument for both too because even if even if she was like okay why are you making these plans without me because i'm the one that had whether or not she had she had to she needed that okay from viscera's whether it's not enough but she i don't care if even if this was the plan you don't make these plans without me you don't do that without me that's kind of how i read it in where she was just she said now that it's coming to fruition now that i've gotten the okay because that's what i'm telling myself anyway sure then let's put it to play because my husband

realized that his daughter shouldn't be doing it, but I still love her. We can't, like, and because he's... And that's when she splits with Otto. Right. That's what the whole episode nine is about, is them going about a different ways. Otto is like, no, you kill your rivals.

You kill anybody who could contest your decision and Aegon becoming a king. And in Game of Thrones politics, he's not wrong. No, he's absolutely not. We're about to get a whole freaking war. And if they had done that, we wouldn't have a show. And much like if Princess Rainey said, had roasted, then we wouldn't have a show.

So that's fine. But it's, I like it because Allison, I want her to be a little more ruthless, but all the hints of rudeness are there through the whole season. And even stuff like, she's kind of hypocritical, the way that like, she's like so about the faith at a certain point, but she's doing all these things that aren't at all, you know, religious or faithful. And so that's, I want to believe that.

And maybe on some rewatches, like I'll get more hints of that. episode nine. She can be a real asshole though. Oh, absolutely. And she should be. And that's what I wanted. I do not want these because they said at the beginning in the series, they wanted this show to be much more from a female perspective than Duma Thrones, which is fantastic. I

was here for it. And they did a great job of making them both fully fleshed out characters with faults, with good aspects, who struggle, who make wrong decisions, who make right decisions. You know, I loved all of that. But I just, I

we were talking before we started the Walter White of it all the Tony Soprano of it all let a character be ruthless let a character be complicated and calculating and whatnot and I kind of wanted

Allison to be more of that like let the female character be that well if I can if I can go to your point a little bit too Tony Soprano and Walter White had to fall into that and had to They weren't like that right away.

Tony was... Walter wasn't. I don't know about... Tony, they show it from... When you even look at from many saints. Oh, that's true. He was... He wanted to start off in a place where he didn't want to go down that path.

But it was hanging out with Maltesante and going down that path of what he did because he could have been a college... The big joke is he could have been a... Could have played varsity. And he could have played varsity. He could have played varsity. And he... So, yeah, but it's that bill.

up into it because that's the whole, I think what Tony is that there's always, he's so far down into the evil that maybe we get that with an Allison down the line in season one. Yeah, and having read the book, I won't say much more. Yeah, yeah, yeah, fair, fair. But just in the sense of getting there, but the decision to choose to usurp the throne by not following Vassaris's orders because he mumbled something on his deathbed to put her son on the throne, that is a calculating, ruthless move, which I applaud because that is what that person.

She reminds me of Searcy in a lot of ways. I was going to say, there's a lot of Sercy stuff in there for sure, but she's She's more thoughtful. And there is good in her. Yes. There's no good in Searcy. Not anymore.

If there ever was. If there ever was, we never saw it. She's about as evil as it as it gets. She was a good, I don't want to say she was a good mom, but she was a loving mom. Is I do everything I do for my children. She was a loving mom for sure. But to me, Alice,

has good in her. She decides, she said, well, she, Searcy ain't saying to anybody, oh, you know what, don't kill him. She's going, kill them all. Right. So, but I do see, there's, there's a lot of that, that ambition, all that, and Rana's even says to her, do you see, picture yourself on the throne? Right.

And she's like, oh, hey, maybe, I don't know. I mean, she's kind of, that's what she's kind of doing by putting him there. Right. And it's coming into her own moment because she's basically telling Rainies in, in that conversation like, you know, I get all of this. Like this whole thing is set up and the men do all of this. But what we do is we subtly manipulate the men. We do it from the background. That's what women have to do because you got to make the guy think it's his idea. Right. That kind of thing. And Rainies is like, step out of that. You know, it doesn't have to be that. Like,

and ironically, that would have been letting Rainier be queen. That would be the screw the way things are and do the right thing, the right decision. Right. But I think it goes back to your point before. And that is, Rinera has just done too much outside of the line. Yep. For Allison's taste,

especially with the stuff with Strong and the idea, like, she's calling her out every five minutes with it. She doesn't give a shit. She's telling everybody, she's like, come on. It looks anything like her husband. What are we talking about here? And she goes, that's what pisses her off.

So one time you really see her lose control is during that where she's just like, this guy, he knows. He knows it. not a Targaryen bloodline at all. He knows, or it is half. But he won't do anything. So that's when she snaps.

And that's why I love that conversation with her in Hightower, where she's like, I know what you're going to say. I messed up. I did this. And he goes, yeah, he did. But good for you. Right. Yeah.

It shows that you're in this. That you're willing to play the game of drones. Right. And that's when, I think that's when she really won him over, you know, even more so in this kind of warped bond. that they have. Yeah. That was when they really got on the same page because now she does call the shots.

She's like, you send out your thugs to go find my son. I'll send out my boys to go find whoever wins, basically. Essentially, yeah. At that point, she understands that he's going to take steps to get the same, they have the same goal. Yeah. But she believes that there's a different way to get there.

And she says the line, it's like, not being a murderer doesn't make me weak. There's other ways to approach this. And I love that. Me too. All right. Let's see where we jump to on our next one. Oh, there you go. Creepy Pigeon Boy is born.

This whole episode, though, was fantastic what they did with the, again, developing Reneara Moore and understanding that she had just come off of that conversation with Rainis, I guess, the previous episode where she thinks, I mean, I am going to be queen. I am going to take over. She's like, yeah, you know, they're not going to let that happen. You know, they're right. They'd rather put the realm to the torts than let a woman be a queen. Right.

And she's like, no, not with me. And then Agon's born, and then she's a lot of attention's getting thrown. And that whole scene with the stag or whatever it is in that particular, like, that was a great. I loved that episode, again, talking about the contained episode where we don't really go anywhere except that place. You know, the festival, and we meet the Lannisters at that point. And he looks like Dave Portnoy from Barstool. And it's like that whole thing that's going on there. and Lannister going and trying to court.

Yeah, this is when we start to realize that she's like 16, 17 at this point and is in want for a husband, or at least according to the rules, needs a husband. And she is pushing back against that because she's already feeling like she's been pushed aside. And so that is all sort of like boiling underneath for her. And then I just love that the episode leans into the symbolism with the stag, with the bore,

and then the relationship with Kristen. And, you know, she thinks he's somebody who would understand because he comes from a different background and has to work to get what he wants. And he's been able to do that in terms of becoming a Kingsguard Knight. And she's trying to figure out, like, am I even still the heir? Right. Right, a lot of doubt.

Or am I just being married off because I'm a pawn, I'm being used in this way. Right. Because she hasn't, she's been so unable to have real conversations with her father. Like, that's a lot of what episode two is about. conversations. They were so good. And that's why, like, when they do, they have that great one after she flies Syrax to get the egg back from Damon.

First or second episode, right? Yeah. And she comes back and at first, Viseras is really mad that she did it. And she's like, it wouldn't have worked out if I hadn't. Right, because High Tower went on his own. Right. And they would have been bloodshed and it would have been bad. Right.

So they have a real heart to heart. And that's when she says she understands that he has to get remarried. And you think they're in such a good place. and then Viseras goes and announces who he's going to marry, and it's Allison, and all that ground gained is just ripped right out from under them. And now going back in hindsight, when you look at it, at first you go, she's just mad because her dad's now sleeping with her best friend. I understand, I get it, but when you look at it, what really happened there,

Viseras got not tricked, but he was, you know. He was subtly, or not so subtly, maneuvering into that situation. He was maneuvered because, you know, Hightower would talk him out of because he could have, he could have. Married Lena. Which, again, Elena was so young at the time, like 12 or 13 even brings up the announcement of it too. But it's all of that and the way that play. But you know who was the biggest asshole in that festival episode who got exactly what they deserved? That pig.

They deserved it. They weren't even messing with them. They were just sitting by the fire and the stupid asshole comes out. At first I was like, oh, poor pig. Fuck that pig. He comes out and he's just like, oh, I'm going to. to Kristen and the right, but you just see, like you said,

the symbolism of just her just earning her, her right. And the triumphant coming back to camp with it, and the way she looks and everybody knows and whatnot. Oh, I love that. She's making a statement. And then her father doubles down on her. He says, no, this is what I'm going to do,

even while he's having conversations with Allison by the fire, saying, am I making the right decision? He is just a, a character who has some convictions, but is unable to really stick to them when there's outside forces pulling at him. Then he doesn't always understand. No, it's true. But he doesn't, and even the stuff with Crabface going to the war, and he's like, for the longest time, he just lets them go to finally he's like,

yeah, you know, let's go help Damon out. And Dave's like, fuck you. I'm going to do this on my own. And then he doesn't. Turns out, we didn't need it. Didn't need it. And that whole thing, and it also set up, they all, they all, Aegon, Vagon, is the one who gets his half face chopped off, right?

Oh, Vamond. Feynman. So that is such a great moment also because Vaman and Corliss are having this conversation. And Vamundas like, screw this guy. He's a little. He sucks. He's like, hey, watch your mouth, dude. Yeah.

He's like, this is going to get you in trouble. They got you in trouble. And it's a great foreshadow. Yeah, absolutely. Just the idea of so many people in this show and in Game of Thrones too in this world feel like they're owed. Yeah. feel like, and some of them are doing it out of a place of like, a lot of Valerian privilege.

But also, I've done everything right. Yeah. Like, we are from Valeria too. I have, I have, you know, done everything I'm supposed to all the way up to this point. And, you know, the idea is you side with who you side with and you support who you support

with the intention of, I will get a little more power out of this. I'll get a little more control over things. I'll get a little more money. whatever it is. But it just so rarely works out that way. And so the people who are, Allison is sort of the same way.

It's like, I did everything right. And so therefore, my son should be king. That's like one of her rationales. That's one of the ideas. I earned this. And the vehement thing is,

he's not wrong. He's not wrong. I know. Those are not Lenore's kids. Right. Like that is, like even though Reneera has tripled and quadrupled downed on it and is insistent

and everything else. I mean, eventually his, I guess, Luke's kid would have been Valerian blood. Yes, because he would have married. Right, right. But he, but he's, but he's still got. He's half, he's Targaryen. Right, but he doesn't, but he's not, but his, his, his, his, his, the line wouldn't have been over. It wouldn't have been over.

But by her arranging for that marriage, it would have come back around, which would have been a good thing. Right. Absolutely. And so why she did it. Right. And so Vaman was like, but not good enough. Not good enough and just decides. and just that whole scene where he's just like,

they're bostards. You're like, this guy. And then takes it a step forward and calls her a whore. It's like, oh, you didn't even just say that. You just went all the way. That was it. And that was one of my biggest gripes of the season. The CGI wasn't great with that.

Yeah. It's good on the floor. Right. But they actually, the face cut. Yeah, it's like, they could have used practical, I think, for that one. It might have been a little bit interesting. But again, it still did. It did.

It did its point. It did what it had to do. All right. So we jump from another one that's, that's, and okay, let's just talk about her in general. The Queen Who Never was. Oh, my God, I love her. So, and I keep saying Rainis.

How do you pronounce it? Rainis. Rainis. Okay, so Rainies is, now, again, I knew nothing about the character. I didn't know anything about Rainies coming into this. And even the fact that the Queen that ever was in the way that she took it. I didn't know she was going to be like Marjorie.

It's Marjorie was the character. Like Marjorie's mom? Oh, Queen of Thorns. I thought she was going to kind of be like a new Queen of Thorns, but again, this is why I've been happy to know that they're not modeling all these things off to other characters. They're all their own characters. Because Rainis has just this regalness about her in general. Absolutely.

And the decision is to me, she's better for sure, and she has every right to be. But she also was able to, she even said to the actress said it in the interview where for the longest time she blames Renera, but it's this episode, nine and ten, really, that she looks and she goes, no, I see what this girl's doing. She says it to Coralus. She says, this girl's holding the realm together. I was going to say she convinced Corlis to commit the Valarian fleet to Rainier's cause.

Absolutely. And that is a full circle moment for Rainies. And that's just a wonderful character. You know, she goes through so much because at the end of the day, she should have been queen. Everybody knows it at this point. Everybody. Right.

But she wasn't. and she probably would have been able to let it go sooner if Corlis hadn't been as power hungry as he's been the whole time. Right. I love how he owned that too. Yeah. And he has the arc that he owns it at the end. So like it's so well done in that respect.

But I liked Rainis's relationship to both Allison and Renera not having great opinions about either of them, but then having conversations or seeing moments. Getting respect for both of them. understand that like, you know, because at first you're like, when she says to Millie Alcock in episode two that like the men would rather see the realm burn, like, you're not going to be queen. I remember being like, no, B&LI, like women support women. Like that was my gut reaction to it. But then you see the layers. You understand where that's coming from. And then she has to

contemplate Rainier's retort, which is, no, they didn't not choose a woman. They didn't choose you. And so that is another layer. And so she's just dealing with all of this. And she doesn't kneel in that in that episode 10. And I was like, and I remember going, why are you kneeling? And then when you see why is because she needed to convince her husband first and then they come back over.

And she's like, not only am I going to support you, I'm going to fight with you. She needed to see Renera not be crowned a queen. She needed to see Renera act like a queen. And so when Renera was shouting, down all of her vassals who were insisting that, you know, she attack and use the dragons and all this stuff. And she's the level-headed one. That's why Rainey's kind of like smiles at her when David starts going off.

And I wasn't sure at first who she was smiling on. I was she, who she smiled at? Why she's smiling? And then as she said, because she's like, this is, everyone else is telling this girl to go to war. And she's standing firm. And she's saying no, because she is acting like Vassaris at that point. And she's got, in the, in the good way.

In the good way. We're trying to, because Harris wanted to hold the realm together. Yes. And that's what she's, that's what she's trying to do. That's going to be out the window in season two, obviously. But Reneas is so great.

And she has that moment in the last, in the penultimate episode where she could roast everybody. And I was one of those people saying, hey, wait, before you were saying, she could have done this. She could have done that.

I'm like, but we don't know what her reasoning is yet. Like, yes, she could have. But maybe she didn't want to do you. And when Damon brought it up, and so you could have. And this whole thing. She's like, yeah, but it's not my place.

It's not line to start. Yes. Yeah. I was really happy about that line too because. She didn't even, she didn't even, there was no allegiance to anybody yet. She just didn't want to be captive. She's, you can't fuck out of here. It's not, yeah, it's not her place.

She, they chose not to make her queen. She has been treated abominably by both sides in all honesty. Like she's lost her children. She's been incarcerated in the Red Keep. She wasn't on a team yet. She didn't want to be on a team because all of this is outside of her and it's only brought her hurt and sorrow. So it's all about a process for her. She didn't agree with it.

I don't think this little asshole should be king, but why do I have to do this? Yeah. Yeah. It's, but I watched that too and I was like, because you could stop a civil war from happening. You've already killed a bunch of people just by bursting through with the dragon and everything else. I was like, you've got blood on your hand. Screw the peasants. As always.

Didn't think about that. She's so true. Yeah. She doesn't burst your thing and just go a whole bunch of people. I'm just going to get milk. Right. So at first I was like, oh, this is just one of those annoying TV things

where they're giving her a moment. And Maly's, we finally see her dragon. And Maly's the Red Queen is one of my favorite dragons. And I was so glad to see her in all our glory. And so the writers wrote themselves into that moment. And then almost everybody watching would go, roast them. That will prevent everything. They're in the wrong. Their usurpers. Do it. And then then we don't have a show. So they can't do it. They can't do it. So I was like, oh, this is just like a plot,

you know, she won't do it because they can't have her do it. So they wrote themselves into this sort of dead end where she couldn't kill them. So she flies off and everybody's like, well, I didn't you burn them? But again, if you go back over the series and you see all the things from her point of view and the conversation she has with Allison, episode 9 and then the conversation she has with Corliss and her observing Rainira, it all makes more sense to me now. I totally agree. She's great.

I love Eve Best. Unreal. She is the best person for this role. She's so good. Introduced to a lot of these new actors and actresses that I had never really known before. I'm so glad that I did because they're just incredible. She's awesome. All right.

So let's see. We did creepy pigeon boy. Same thing. Is it another moment? Just when she went. Yeah. Okay. See, I'm going to get to another one here in a second.

I promise everybody. Oh, this is the start. Should we talk about Patty Considine? In the first episode? Well, in any of them. Sure. I mean, Patty Constadine to me was someone that I mean, that I was familiar with his face. Yeah.

I'd seen him in things and I'm sure if you brought up a couple of things that he was in like, oh yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. But nothing, again. He was never a leading man. No, and never a big standout. Yeah. Like, I mean, because Matt Smith different.

Matt Smith has had leading roles. Matt Smith's been and stuff, we're like, oh, that's Matt Smith. Patty Considine was pretty much like a character actor that would pop up in things. And he'd be like, oh, I know that guy's face. You cannot forget Patty Constadine now. Not now. Patty Constadine, this was the career role for him. And he took it and ran with it and owned it and went from taking everything from seeing Vassaris in that first episode and saying, well, what kind of king is this guy?

Let his wife die. when he tried Yeah, made the choice to kill his life. Made a lot of us really angry after the first episode. Oh, I know I saw it.

It's supposed to. It's supposed to. Right. And that was what, and so that was my, because Roxy and I talked about this at depth, right? And my point was,

I thought that that scene was very necessary. And I thought that scene was something that, especially now, when you've seen the Saras, that is a choice that he would make and did make

and did he love his wife? Of course he loved his wife. Did he think that he was supposed to have an air and he needed that that boy and he went through all costs to get it and it was the wrong decision yes on all of that because he was sitting there and he was like okay if you can save the kids and do do this and she's like I don't want to go I don't want to and it doesn't really even talk to her it's not her choice at this point from from and that was that was what pissed everybody off and that was the idea of it and that was exactly the point of it to show that she just didn't and she didn't even want to be

going through this this time right yeah she has that really heartbreaking conversation with him about how many miscarriages. Yeah, I don't know, man. And then so you get into that whole thing with, you know, how is this all going to play out? So you automatically have this thought of a Saris. And you don't necessarily, no matter if you thought it was a hard decision you had to make

or a ruthless decision, I thought it was a harder decision than anything else, wrong decision, but a hard decision. But you start to question this guy and go, well, what kind of king is this guy going to be? And then you start to see that he's trying to do the right thing. He's trying to, he loves his daughter,

He's trying to do all these things, but he's just, as you said before, he just doesn't want to be in that seat. Yeah, and he doesn't have the mindset. He doesn't have the personality. He doesn't have the temperament, the confidence in himself. Like all of the qualities, you know, not everybody makes a good ruler, not everybody makes a good leader. And he just doesn't exhibit any of the qualities that this particular,

at this particular time in West Rose, that they needed. And so he's easily maniputable, and that's what's happening with Otto and everybody else. And he's just staying on the compromise, whatever I don't have to actually make a decision, put it off, like he's just going to stay on that road because he doesn't know how to go off of it.

And that's just who he is. It is. And he finally does become a king in that last episode, right before he dies, and he just, makes these moves on when he shows up in the in the the room so good and what I love to and I mentioned this in my in my review um one of my favorite moments and again it's because I as you know I lost my brother not too long ago and that moment where he's walking up and at all the problems that he and

and Damon have had and he's telling everybody I got it and then he goes I told you I got it but he sees this Damon and Damon helps him and he doesn't say worry he just helps him up and and he's just like that's when he lets him do it because he loves Damon. He's always loved him. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, Damon has made it very hard for him. And he's done some pretty despicable things in which Veseris had to act and banish him and whatnot. Did you read that in that moment?

Improv. The drop the crown was not. I love that. I truly, truly love that. So people didn't know. I'm sorry. So, yeah, so there was the moment where Viseras's crown drops on the floor, that was, that did. it legit fell off his head.

And that's when Matt Smith stepped in and picked it up. And put it on, stating character, put it back on his head and helped him up to the Iron Throne. And yeah, that's just even more indicative. And I like that that also shows growth in Damon because now he's married to Reneer. They have two children. She's pregnant with their third. They are ruling on Dragonstone. And things are actually kind of going well for them until all of this succession of drift mark comes up and creates turmoil.

And they have to go back to King's Landing. but for him to place the crown on Vassaris' head with no irony, with no quip, with nothing, that's an acknowledgement. That is, you are the king. And I am no longer, you know, fighting tooth and nail to be your heir. Right, because you're making a move here. This is something I've always got. And it's something he always wanted to do it.

Wanted to do something like that. And then because you have all this beef with the two of them, because he comes back in after that big fight, he gets back on Viseras's side after he takes out Crabboy and does all this. stuff. He comes back in and then what is he true? He tries to fool around. He tries to have sex with Renair in in some room, even though that wasn't even about sex for Damon. It was about power. And to her it was, to her, she was, she was down, she was ready,

and that's why Sir Kristen gets all tangled up in the web. And what a mess, that whole situation was. What a great episode it was. And it throws it all, it's my favorite thing throughout it, I said it in one of the reviews. I was like, the idea behind everybody and what these, how messed up the Targaryens are. It's like, listen, listen, you can't, fuck your uncle, but you can bang your cousin. Yeah, yeah, apparently. That's what, I mean, he's like, yeah, yeah, oh, you know what? Better pitch.

That's a better pitch than going with your uncle. And then he's sitting around at the end and she is with her, his brother. He's like, that's fine now. They're okay. It's legit now. Right. It gets to the point because, like, he wasn't saying you can't fuck your uncle. He's saying you can't fuck that one.

Right. Like, it's about Damon. It's not about that it's your uncle. That's right. That's right. We're not, we're just talking about why, why him? Targaryens intermarry all the time. It was still a thing.

That's why you got all these crazy weirdos running around. That's why when you flip the coin, you do not know. I mean, there's a lot of them out there that it's just, it's like, it's so crazy. And even the kids, and we can't mean, because we only have so much time because Rachel's got it going a second. But how much more longer do I have you for? Because we get. I could probably go to 1.30. Okay.

So we'll talk for a little bit until you got to go. So the kids, the kids. the kids I mean we didn't even jump to a picture but I don't care the kids are I mean just from because of people not wanting Reneira in the throne the first of all and all these kids popping out of the woodwork and like so she's got all these kids with strong you know and then she's got to have all the kids then she's all these kids with

damon and then Allison also all these kids and like and it's crazy because Allison's kids are the real crazy ones like her kids because I guess it's strong half of the strong and it's not full. Might have helped out in that regard. Right. But like, because we don't know,

because you know better than I do, how do Damon and Reneeris kids turn out? Nuts? Or? Um, that's spoiling, I guess. Not,

I will say not in the super crazy category. Not the way that Amon and, and, yeah, I don't think so. Right. Well, Amund is Viseris and Allison's.

Right. That's what I mean. Yeah, but, but, um, Agon marries his sister, Helena, the one who,

always talking in riddles. Oh, really? That's his sister. And they get married. And they get married. And they have twins. Oh, my God. So they're in a couple of scenes.

They're just there just to show that they, so there's a further line. Oh, so this is already, this is already happened in the show. Okay, wow. So they didn't make a big storyline out of that. They, yeah, and they have it. And actually, there's another brother that they didn't bring in at all. Oh, wow. Who's going to be brought in?

The creators, because a lot of fans were like, where's Daron? Where's Daron? That's, um, Allison's and Viseras's third son. Okay. And the creators were like, we decided not to include him this season. He's often old town. But he exists. Okay.

He has to exist. He's going to be doing some stuff in the next couple of seasons. But yeah, they, I think they realized there's a lot of kids and that they couldn't really. And then you, again, you were changing actors by the week with them. Yeah. And that, you know, makes it hard to understand who is who and to connect with them. Yeah, that's true. When they finally got to this group, we had, I think, three episodes with this group.

And that's when you really are more clear about who is who and the temperaments of them and the crazy. Well, the setup of it, because they set you up really quickly. So, like, as I mentioned, joke about, they, they, Agon is on the window sole masturbating onto pigeons. When Agon is the one who really wants to be, he's bullied as a kid, he really wants to prove himself. He doesn't have a dragon. He can't find that. Amid, yes. Amen.

I keep saying, whatever I say. You know, that's why you're here. But Amon is, he wants the dragon for so long. And I'm torn. I mean, I can't stand him now because of what he did. But the actor's fantastic. But the character's fantastic. Because even though it was a slimy move to get that dragon when he did at the funeral, you get him when you get him, you made his move. And if Vagar accepted him.

The Vagar accepted him. He took the shot. The Vaguer could have eaten him. Yeah. And he took the shot and he did it. And I love that moment. And that was such a, again, the writing on the show is just so incredible because he goes up there. And I'm like, yeah, go, kid.

Yay. And he did it. He finally, good for him. He comes back and he's just an asshole. Yeah. He's just a pure asshole now. And he comes back and he's hitting people with rocks and he's doing and he loses an eye. And I thought he was going to be like screaming and he had like Joffery and all whining.

And he's just like, I got a dragon out of it. cool. Yeah. And you're like, whoa. Right. That told you who that kid's going to be. Yep, absolutely. Oh, I loved it. All right, let's see. We'll move on to another picture here. But yeah, then the relationship between High Tower and Vassaris, by the way, and how he gets outstead

as the hand of the king and then how his new hand. I love that new hand. Oh, strong. I love strong. Yeah. And then strong, freaking gets killed by his son. Bastard. What a scumbag. Oh, God. He's creepy. He's so creepy. him and his feet footage, but he's so good in the role.

He's really good in the role. All right, let's see. It's got another one here. There is. Perfect. I loved him. I loved him because I thought that when you first see him in the advice, remember, Viseras is all drunk and people giving him advice and all this stuff, too, and he's like, if I can give you some advice, my lord.

And he's like, what are you going to say? I should do this? Should she marry your son? Right. That's what every lord is coming up to me saying, yeah. Which is hilarious considering what's Harwin. But he's like, no, no, no. I'm going to suggest that.

Let me suggest this. And he's like, you, I like you. He's actually a loyal hand in that he has the realm in mind. It's not Otto who has himself first and foremost in his house first and foremost in mind. He's strong is much more interested in doing his job for the right reasons. Yeah. And it just happened. You know, his son gets into this relationship with, which is hilarious now.

You think it had he actually married them off. Yeah. You know, it would have been a, it would have been a. different story. Absolutely. It would have been a very different story. But the political move of Renira marrying Lanor had to happen because of Viseris's earlier choice not to marry Lena.

Like the political, like he set himself on that path. You can't lose that fleet. You can't dis basically. And they're the richest house. Not the Lannisters yet. The Lannisters will end up eventually being the richest house. But because they didn't give a lot of background on Corlis Valerian, they're actually considering doing a show about his.

voyages, is his, like he tells Damon in episode two, I built drift mark. I built high tide. I did this with my own back. That's because he built his own ship and he sailed to all the ports around the world, including the really, really far away ones, came back with riches and gold and jewels and stories, and he became this like swashbuckling. How about how he nonchalancho. I was like, by the way, we own that.

We control that now. Right. Even though I almost got killed, I won. Yeah. I got everything done. Because he's the sea snake. Right. Yes, absolutely.

He's great. Yeah, I love him. He's always, and on the page, he was one of my absolute favorite characters. Okay, see again, not familiar with it enough, right? So then that's, and I, that's what I loved about it. And I think you said it before we started filming is that they used so many different, they used very, they used great actors that were in stuff, but not superstars. Right.

Risa Fons, I think is the most well-known. Right. Maybe Graham McTavish to some people. Yeah, but still. I think that's within our circle, but like casual fans don't know. Yeah, no Graham. And he doesn't even, he didn't even do that much this season. No, he really hasn't.

I'm assuming he does a lot more. I'm curious. They're taking a few liberties with him, okay. So far, nothing major, but enough to make me go, well, like, has Graham McTavish. So I feel like they're leading to something. I hate that we have to wait two years for this thing to come back. Okay, so yeah, and this whole thing in the way that ultimately goes down with Strong, and I love what they did do with Strong.

And even, you know, we can actually go into a little bit more with strong in a second. We did the Lannister stuff already. Oh, those Lannisters, they never really change. No, they really don't. And the relationship that, you know, and he has that moment, obviously, from the finale that he says, Corliss says, listen. We pledge to you. That's it.

And that is huge for her, 100%. I love this. God, I love this moment. King of the Stepstone. When he shows back up after this big. I mean again Matt Smith and this is again to this I feel like this scene happened in the show like three different times but it all worked yeah they loved it they loved that little walkway it's like such a confined space where nobody can actually run away so what's gonna happen did you know that was the volume the volume yeah so the volume is what they use on the Mandalorian oh so that that space the volume space where you like that I didn't know that that scene with with in episode one that was all the volume oh wow yeah I I didn't know that either. I didn't know.

See, look, I taught Rachel Gushing something. I win. If I got anything in there, that's that. And look, it turns out I'm wrong. No, I actually, someone had told me that, and I was shocked. I read a whole article on it, but it was great the way that they played all that out. All right, let's see if there's anything else that we can jump to that we haven't really covered. Again, the young actresses who played.

They really set the stage, but then both Emma Darcy and Olivia. Yeah. Yeah, took it, took the baton and ran with it. These two. Yeah, go ahead. So I will say that the time jumps were necessary, and that was fine. But Lena Valerian and Harwin Strong were the two characters that I think kind of got the short shrift because of those time jumps. She was so good when she was in a time. She was great.

And she's such a great character on the page, too, because she's such a, she's a dragon rider first. She loves, and then she rides Vagar. We never actually get to see her ride Vagar because they wanted the Vagar review. to be more about Amund. Yeah. And I get it. I do. But like, she's a fantastic character.

And Harwin Strong is the only man Reneera loved. He's a good, too. And he was a good guy. And he was a good father. But we only basically saw them together in one episode because he dies at the end with his father, thanks to Laris. So I was a little bummed about that because both those characters are very rich

and could have really added to it. Like I would have liked to see a little more of Damon and Lena because they did have an interesting relationship. And actually, Lena and in the book, Reneira have a very good relationship. So, like, there were things that ultimately they needed to get people older because they had to get the kids. The kids had to start showing up because they are major players in the dance.

So let me ask you a question then because as we wrap this thing up here, so as we get through all this, and the setup because of all the kids and the things that they had to lose. Now, the question is, I feel, and I want you to tell me where your thoughts are on this, but I feel what's going to happen is season two is going to obviously about the war itself, and we're going to get all that. And I think season three will probably be the end of the war and how it all wraps up. And then I don't think you don't have to stop with House of the Dragon.

I think you can continue on in that history book now because you have, I want to see how the last dragon goes out. I want to see how this lead up. I want to see all the way up until like the Mad King. It's like to me, I was just saying I always try to one time throw everything into Star Wars. And the old Republic to me is something I was wanted to see them do because I think you could start with

either as the beginning of the Sith and the Jedi into Knights of the Old Republic, then furthering out that whole thing, a couple of seasons of that leading into Darth Bean, which ultimately leads into Plague which ultimately leads into episode one. And the same way they were going to do with Rome, remember when Rome came out,

because Rome was so ahead of its time. Yeah, it was the most expensive show ever made at the time. It was a $100 million budget, which is now what they do all the time. But it was ahead of its time. There was no streaming. Was HBO taking a shot? They're like, nobody's want, not enough people are watching this. Or talking about it.

So let's put everything that happened in Rome's history into season two. And you're like, whoa. Like it just blended in. So where do you think House of the Dragon will go? Will it be a two, three season? Then we're done with this storyline? Or will it continue on? Are they going to stretch it out like a Hobbit type thing?

I believe I read and I could be wrong that they were aiming for five. seasons with these characters. With these characters. So logistically, Fire and Blood, the book, the history book that this is all based on, ends not soon

like just a little bit after the end of the Dance of Dragons. There's going to be a volume two that covers the rest of the history. So we don't have that yet for them to potentially keep going. We know the bones of it and there's short stories he's written and he's the Dunkin' Egg novels and everything else. So that

We know, like, what happens afterwards. But they haven't written that history book yet. So it could be that they're waiting for that. I think you can do the dance over five seasons because I think that the war will take at least two seasons. I think it could even go into the fourth season. And then there is some aftermath. And I have an idea of the ending point.

But to your point, you could keep going because not too long after that, I mean, there's a couple of kings that do some interesting things, and then not too long after that was the Blackfire Rebellion, which is the other big set piece event that happens. Is that how the dragons will go out? They're gone by then. Okay.

Yeah. The dragons kind of go out with a whimper. I will say that. Like, after the dance, there's only so many of them left. And I don't want to say too much. Sure, sure, sure, sure. But, like, it's not like a big climactic out. It's just sort of a, it happens based on everything that goes.

down and the people that are involved, it makes sense that it goes down that way. So, and then you get another, you get the first Mad King. There was another one prior to Ares. And he, another civil war starts because he has two sons, one who's a legitimate, one who is a bastard that he legitimizes. What line does he come from? They're Targaryans. No, what I mean from like, from the characters.

This is why I'm so like fascinating. Oh, okay. What characters like. Again, I think I'd be spoiling things. Okay, don't, then don't. No, thank you. Thank you. So much.

But they could absolutely keep going. They could just take this all the way through. But I don't know, like, it could be that people, like, Dave and Dan say what you will about season eight, seemed very burnt out. It's hard to keep up this show because of the, you shoot all around the world. You need a year to shoot and then a year to do all the effects

and the editing and everything else. It's a lot. So I wouldn't be surprised. I mean, Hell, Miguel walked away after season one. Exactly. So I do feel like they will do. this in the five, I think five seasons, and then they'll probably be another break, or I know they've got stuff in development. They don't have that. They've got the sea snake younger things. They're developing

a story about Nymeria and the 10,000 ships. And then I don't know if eventually they'll go back to trying to rework a song of ice. Well, I think what they did that was so smart was this was, that's why we mentioned, I mean, Naomi Watts is Naomi Watts, right? But I think that if that, that's show, they said, it just wasn't working, right? So they shot the pilot, they said, no, we can't go with this. And it's, again, going back to Star Wars. My biggest concern with releasing this Taika-a-Tidi movie next, if they're going to do that, is you haven't had a movie

that has been accepted by all of the fan base together, right? You have the divisive, I know that, for a perfect example, you and I get along very well. You have a very different opinion on less Jedi than I do, right? But we haven't come together. Like Mandalorian, you're saying a manorraine. I was going to say, yeah, I've seen all the TV shows. I think the TV shows are doing a better job of uniting all of us.

Absolutely, they are. Absolutely. And I think that, but the movies haven't. So the mistake that I think that they would do is, well, here's the movie. And Thor, Love and Thunder was not well received by everybody. So it's like, so here you go. Here's a, here's the next Star Wars movie. And it's by Tycoa Titi, and it's a comedy.

It might not be, but it's a comedy. That's not going to help. And after a divisive Game of Thrones season of what the last, one where the fans like, ah, I don't know if I want to ever see Game of Thrones ever again. They're like, well, how about this? And now everybody loves Game of Thrones again. If he would have led with one, let's say the Naomi Watts one wasn't that good.

I'm done with Game of Thrones. And it honestly, it boils down to the information that we have, the stories that have already been written. The Song of Ice show with Naomi Watts, Martin has written a couple of pages about what might have happened at that. So the writers would have to be developing all new. stuff and it might not work. I think that's what I heard. I think that was actually one of the answers. And that's why the end of Game of Thrones didn't work is because we got past the

novels. George Martin started not being involved anymore and the stories got simpler and more typical and streamlined in such a way that we were all like. Did you not like the last season? I liked where it ended. Like I understood yes, she had to be the mad queen. Yes, John had to kill her. Yes, Brian was going to be coming. I like all of that. But they, They did not do enough work to get us there. It was rushed. Absolutely. It was rushed.

I liked the season. I differ with a lot of people on it. But I can't disagree with anyone that says that it was rushed because it was rushed. But this show is not rushed. This show is very, very well developed. And I think that's the lesson they learned. And the Dance of the Dragon is the Dance of the Dragon story is been written. Right.

Like I know all of the beats. I know where it ends. They just have to adapt it. They just have to adapt it and expand upon. And thus far, their expansions have worked. So I have trust in this. And I think that they are very well aware that they can't help but stick the landing on this one versus Game of Thrones. And so if they do with this one, then everything that comes after, maybe then they can start pushing the envelope again.

Well, thank you so much for joining me here today. What a fun conversation it was. We probably could have talked about this for like seven hours. Easily. And I want to thank you guys for joining this year for the entire ride that it was, man, on House of the Dragon. knew that I was going to like the show. I didn't realize how much I would love the show. It is such a great show.

It was such a great journey overall. I'm sure we missed some things that you wanted to talk about. So go ahead and comment in the comment section and let me know. What is it? Anything that we missed that you wanted to talk about? What did you enjoy the most? Please comment. Please and thank you.

Make sure you follow Rachel Cushing Levine over on our Twitter account. And make sure if you haven't already done that, make sure you subscribe. Get us to 70,000. We're almost there. All right, everybody. Thank you for joining. in this very special episode of

the big thing with Rachel and me. We'll see you next time. Peace. Progressive Insurance. Hey, Chief, we got a damaged RV on his way to the OR. Well, that sounds like a job for the new head of RV surgery. Wait, are you promoting me? Congrats, Martinez.

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