The Kristian Harloff Show - INTERESTING! Is Sam Raimi the right choice to direct the next two Avengers films for Marvel?

Episode Date: November 29, 2023

Become a Patron!: https://www.patreon.com/TheBigThingShow Is Sam Raimi close to directing both Avengers Secret Wars and Kang Dynasty for Marvel? If so, is this the right move? Dave Filoni and crew talk about the Ashoka Anakin story. Taika Waititi talks about not wanting to do a Marvel film but took Thor to make money. He also discusses his new Star Wars film. Christopher Nolan weighs in on the big blockbuster debates. Disney has had a rough year as far as box office return. We discuss the slate of 2023. Aquaman 2 could be the last hope for the weak box office. This and more on today's Big Thing with Kristian Harloff and Mike Kalinowski #mcu #marvel #avengers #dc #aquaman #starwars #christophernolan 

There you go. What's going on, everybody? Welcome back. It is Wednesday. And it's the big thing. Myself and Mike Kalinowski here today, Steph's sick. So do me a favor. Tweet out to Steph and say, we hope that you get better.

So we'll be back next week. And you know who also might be back? For better or for worse. Sam Ramey directing both Avengers movies? How do we feel about that? I think it's going to be split. That's what I feel. I don't know about it in the room,

but I feel like the majority of the audience is going to be split. So we'll discuss that. Tycoe-Oatiti said he didn't get. a crap about Marvel movies. Wanted the paycheck. And some people, of course, you're director. Yeah, but is that the smartest thing

to say right now? Especially right before he's going to do a Star Wars movie? What's that going to be like? So we'll talk about that. And speaking of Star Wars, Dave Faloni had some things to say about Asoka and a few other things. And Skeleton Crew, apparently now is coming out

at the end of 2024. So in Christmas time. So how is that going to work as far as timelines and whatnot? Shifting away from Marvel and Star Wars. we're talking about Aquaman and how they are absolutely all theaters and everybody hoping that this movie does well and they needed to because the blockbuster

has not done very well thus far and we're also talking about blockbusters Christopher Nolan who had almost a billion dollar hit with Oppenheimer he speaks about the blockbuster controversy of what's going on in the big debate rather so we'll discuss that and more if you're brand new to the channel you see that swirling thing flying around up there.

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Apple Podcasts, Spotify, anywhere podcasts are found. You can do it. We hope that you do it. All right. It's myself. It's Mike Kalanowski. It's the big thing. Let's do it.

Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen. Big thing. Wednesday. to myself, Christian Harlow, Mike Kalanowski. Yeah. Yeah. Steph had enough of us. She's like, I'm out.

One week. One week. I'm bummed that she. I'm done with you clowns. She wasn't feeling good. And she's like, and she always recovers pretty quick. She never gets sick, though. I know.

Never. She's got an ace kicked. So we're hoping that she is better by next week so we can, you know, bust some chops, if you will. Bust the nuts off. I guess bust your nuts off. Sure. That's what they say in the world. there's a lot to talk about Mike

and you were listing it off there I'm like Jesus tons I mean that's strikes over tons of news coming out every day we always have stuff to talk about it to me the story that I really wanted and I don't really know where you stand on this so I'm very curious let's start with the Sam Ramey thing

sure Sam Ramey director of most recently for Marvel Dr. Strange in the Multiverse of Madness he is again rumored to direct Avengers Secret War this past September reported on a rumor that I had heard that Sam Ramey was being eyed to direct Avengers' secret wars, and he was actually Marvel's top choice. Daniel Rickman is now echoing my original intel by reporting that Ramey is indeed one of the top contenders to Helms Secret Wars,

and that he might actually be directing both, set for 2026 and 27. This is from World of Freel.com. Last week, director Destin Daniel Cretton dropped out of Avengers Kang Dynasty, so it looks as though it might be Ramees for the taking. My message to Sam Ramey is don't take the offer. Marvel's turning toxic. You turn 64. You don't need this headache.

Okay, great. I don't need a penion piece of here. Rami should stick to his current plan of shooting. Yeah, yada, yada, yada. Ramey is not the only director in contention to direct these movies from what I've heard. I've also been hearing that Ryan Coogler and John Watts are in the running. Whoever gets the job would be succeeding Joe and Anthony Russo, directors of the previous two Avengers.

Okay, so my thought on this is, I don't like it at all. Okay. At all. I like Sam Ramey when it's his movies in the same way that I feel like Tyka, you know, which we'll talk about in a second. It's like it felt that movie, there was a lot of great creative visual things about Dr. Strange 2, but it was a full-on Sam Ramey movie.

They ignored a lot of the stuff with the script with Wanda Vision, these other things. I think they need someone who's connected to the MCU and get both Ryan Cougar and John John Watts, great choices. Would much rather have them over Sam Ramey. I think that this is Kevin Feige, who is a major fan of Sam Ramey, and that's why this is happening. I think this is a colossal error, really bad. You do. Well, I have two different minds of it.

One, the first one is, I was just talking to someone the other morning, Shannon McClung of geek buddies. We talk about mouth of madness. Is that what a movie versus madness? Something like that. Whatever. Like, I don't blame that movie. on him because he came into it. Derekson was like, I don't want to do this.

I want to do my own thing and you got to have me tie this multiverse stuff and I don't want any of that. I'm out. So he came in, made it his own and it's a Ramey film. That's what I'm saying. He was a Ramey film. Like I just watched Darkman recently, which I love. Me too. But it's a Ramey film. But the Spider-Man's are more traditional.

They are. They got Ramey flares, but it's a more traditional superhero film. Sure. I wonder if it's one of those cases where like, you know, Batman is a Tim Burton film, but Batman Returns is a real Tim Burton film. The studio lets him go. My other thought is this.

At this point with Marvel, why are you even talking about these movies? You don't know what the hell's going to happen with which characters are going to be in it because audiences are not... If the Marvels, if Photon and Marie Rambo and all them are going to be the leads of Secret War, you're in trouble. Right. Because audiences did not want to see these people.

So you are in trouble. If you're thinking of... about that movie and you are not shoring up and knocking out what's going to come like DC right now. They're not talking about Justice League, the new James Gun Justice League. They're going, we're going to knock Superman out and fix this and get this ship back on the water. But they have to do that though because they don't have anything. Right. But Marvel needs to too too.

They can't reset like DC can anymore. That option is they cannot do that. Right. So they're in a- But they've got to fix what's going on. But I do think that it is smart to lock down your director because it is, it's If you're still planning on having this thing. But Cretton was locked down.

And he's like, nope, I'm out. And what was funny, though, is with that report was that, you know, they were going to have the reason why, last, I think last week we talked about it was that the reason why they were moving away from it because they weren't doing Kang anymore. But now the report is that they are doing Kang. Well, isn't it like Michael Waldron was fired from Kang? I mean, I think that's a thing of like, hey, we don't have this script so we're not going to keep paying you for.

It's a bad thing to say. He was let go because I think the Kang. Not Waldron. It was the other guy, but Waldron is actually writing this now. Waldron is writing this. Right, but wasn't Waldron fired off Kang? No, no, he's right. Who was fired off Kang?

I can't, uh, what's this? They just mentioned, I mentioned the article, but the, I can't remember the guy's name, but he, but he was fired off of it. Or not fired off of it, taken off of it. Taken off. And then he was, but he's still in the Marvel family. He's working on other things inside. Yeah.

But Waldron did Loki and he did strange. That's also why the rumors are starting to point more towards Ramey because they're like, oh, Waldron's already worked with him. And I don't. care for that because I remember back during the talk for this, he's like, yeah, I put the Illuminati in there because someone else is going to do it, I wanted to do it first. Right, that's your reason. That's not the way, yeah. And you could tell you, that whole sequence is like, this makes no effing sense. It's stupid. Well, and no, and, but that's when you said before you,

well, you can't necessarily blame Rami. Of course you can. As a director, you say, well, what, what the hell is this? What does this mean? Like, oh, it'll make sense. And, and, fine, if you let's throw it in there. He was brought in so late, I think. He wasn't brought as late as you think, man. Like, he was brought in. They can't restart over and Ramey go, I don't like script at all. We're going to, because they were like, you got to put it in Wanda, you got to tie it to Wanda, but we're going to throw away everything it was in Wanda Vision. And didn't Rydden's say, I didn't watch Wanda Visions? Well, the one point is that they didn't, it wasn't finished yet.

Wanda Vizabeth wasn't finished yet. But the scripts were. Yeah. The scripts were, the scripts were, the footage, the dailies were done? Yeah. They didn't want it. That was, that's what it came down there. They didn't want it. They didn't want it incorporated. And they put it, because that made a lot of, they mean no sense. And then Kevin Feigie said that one thing where he's like, oh, you don't need to watch Juan Division. What are you talking about? What are you talking about? It makes no sense. And then the other thing with Ramey, like this is the thing. This is why, and I guarantee you in the comments, but I guarantee, I like Ramey also. He's a legend. He's a legend. And he's accomplished

some incredible stuff. But he's just not the right choice for this. Because of what you're talking about, the Marvel needs like an ultimate win for all the fans to be like, the way that the Rousseau did it. Everybody was on board with those movies for the majority of it. But here's, but here's the difference. You know who's going to love this movie? Who? Rameyheads. Ramey heads love his movies.

I took my buddy. That's a small crowd, though. In the grand scheme of audiences. 100%. I'm a great, same page. But the Rameyheads, Kevin Feingy, being one of them,

are going to love the fact that he's doing it. And I took my friend Derek to see that movie. Multiple Samantha Madness? Yes. And I'm looking on, it's just, this is such a Ramey movie. And like everything, I'm like, I'm just,

it's not what I was hoping for with this story that they're trying to put together after coming off of what they did with No Way Home. And I said to him, I said, Derek, what you think? I loved it. This is a great way. Is he a Rameyhead? The Ramey Head, huge Remy hit.

So, like, the Ramey fans are going to love this movie. Are a good buddy Patrick Campbell. Multiverse Madison is his favorite MCU film. Right. And I can't fault him because he loves Ramey. So, hey, love what you love, man. But I think even for someone like Patrick Campbell,

I think that the error would be, he'd probably tweet out that he loves this choice, thinks it would be great and can't wait to see it for him. But if you look at it as an over, I don't think for a Marvel choice. Yeah, it's a real course. I don't think it's a good choice for Marvel

because you've got to get everyone on board and you're going to get people that feel the same way that we do. And it's not a matter of like not liking it. I do. But I want to, that's why I say Coogler or Watts, they can play ball within Marvel to say, okay, I know what I want to do.

I know them. They both have strong choices as directors, but their style doesn't, doesn't overpower the movie. Yeah. I think it's like when I hear Guillermo Dutoro is going to do Justice League Dark, I'm on board. Right. 100%.

Right. Now, would I want him to direct a Justice League film? No. Probably not. No. Because he, you know, but what he brings to it and like, like, Ramey is, when Ramey was announced as Dr. Strange, I was like, that's awesome. Perfect.

I did like Derrickson, though, beforehand because of what he did with it. But Ramey, but I love, I, I just talked about this the other day. I still love his Spider-Man went into. I think they hold up so. well, I love those two films. Still, 20 some odd years later. We did a rewatch for them for Caves and Cowls, and they're definitely enjoyable films.

Yeah. But there's a lot of camp to it. There's a lot of camp. He brought a comic book feel to New York City, like elevated trains, the bank that has gold coins. It doesn't happen, but it's a comic book feel, and I love that. Yeah, I agree with that. Yeah, so...

It's one and two and two is beloved. Like, if you don't say that's the... the best Spider-Man movie ever. People come after you, which I don't think it is the best Spider-Man movie ever, but people love it. People love that movie. What do you think is?

I would probably say, well, if we're not including, what's the first? Anything with Spider-Man. No, well, then... Into the Spider-Verse. Into the Spider-Verse. I think is the best Spider-Rever.

Yeah, I'm not, I can't disagree with that. I think that's the... I think Spider-Man 2 is a close second. See, I would put one of the... Get out of here. One of the Holland movies in it. Get out of here. Sorry, buddy.

Yeah, I'm just not. I've always thought the movies were enjoyable. But they just, the camp, the camp always kind of took me out of it. Sometimes. I like some camp in my superhero films. Which is fair. And if you do, that's probably why. Because as you said, when you, when Ramey was announced.

I was on board because I know what Ramey is. I had the same take that I have now for this. When Ramey was announced, I was like, my worry is it's going to become a Ramey movie and this is exactly what it became. Dr. Strange kind of would, I think if he was not beholden to any, if he was to have directed the first Dr. Strange. I don't know, dude, like the feel of it, like even like creatively, is that piano scene,

like, is it, like, really wonderful to look at and is it absolutely, like, genius creativity of, yes. Is it, does it feel out of place? Like, it just kind of thrown in there. Like, watch this cool thing. My friend said that the other day, too, we were talking about that scene.

He's like, I love that scene. He's just like, it just didn't make any sense. It just didn't make any sense. It looks cool, but it's about as ramy as you get. It's about as ramy as you get. And you're like, there's not a lot of filmmakers that could pull that off. Wasn't it Bonnie Somerville?

She's in number two. Doing the whole, ah, that's a Ramey thing. She's part of a ramey thing. Of course she is. And look, it's, I think it's a poor choice. I just do. I think that you're getting to a place where it's the same type of thing where, and it'll go into our next story where I think it's a,

especially now after this comments that Tycho Wattiti keeps making, to have him do a Star Wars movie right now is a bad move. Do you hear what the one thing he said about it? Oh, well, there's two different things. Let me say this is the first thing he said about this. Are we going to talk about what he said about Marvel films? Yeah, let's move into it. Okay, because then it's going to dovetown to the Star Wars thing.

All right, Tycho Wattiti's talking a lot. Someone's upset. Recently, he had no interest in, he said, he had no interest in joining the Marvel Cinematic Universe before directing Thor Ragnarok. Appearing on the Smartless podcast recently, he said he only accepted writing a Thor film because he was poor and he needed to feed his kids.

You know what? I had no interest in. doing one of those films. It wasn't on my plan for my career as an uteur, but I was poor, and I just had a second child, and I thought, you know what, this would be a great opportunity to feed these children. And Thor, let's face it, it was probably the least popular franchise. I never read Thor comics as a kid. That was the comic I'd pick up and be like, and then I did some research on it, and I read one Thor comic on eight, or around 18 pages or however long they are.

Well, T. T.D. added that it was Marvel reaching out to him that he realized that they had creatively run dry with the character. I think there was no place left for them to go with that. but, well, they've called me in. This is really the bottom of the barrel. The candidness likely stems from Latiti a few weeks back, indicating that he will not be involved in a fifth Thor movie, even as he said in the same interview with Insider. I love Marvel.

I love working with them. I love Chris Hemsworth and compares it to being in an open relationship and that he might still get back into bed with them one day. He also appeared on the Kelly Clarkson show this week and was asked about his Star Wars project. Once again, he confirms a project is proceeding ultra slowly, but he has a tone in mind. He says, I've been developing the Star Wars show.

Wars film for a few years, but I think with any film, that one in particular, it's something I'd really like to get right, and I don't want to rush it. It's going to bubble along on the side. I want to capture that joy and entertainment of the early ones like Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi and all those, so I'm trying to figure that out. It'll happen. Both the three newly announced Star Wars films and a fourth one from filmmaker Sean Levy seem more likely to arrive on screens prior to Attee's movie, it seems. Okay, so I'm actually going to start with the positive here. All right? Because I do think that social media in general looks, and not I think, I know that social media in general likes to cause a stir and get people talking and go, oh, look what he said.

And the main thing that was going around, yeah, the main thing that was going around with him with the Star Wars thing was like, my Star Wars movie is going to piss people off. He said that, right? I don't know if I just glance at somewhere, but I was like, I thought he said that. He said that somewhere. And so right away, that's the comment that everybody was, was, and whether or not PR or somebody said, dude, Come on. We want you, people, we want, right now, it's like back and forth that people are worried because after seeing that last movie, say something else. This comment that he said, that he wants to make it more like the original trilogy and he's taking his time.

That's the kind of stuff you want a director to say. That's the kind of stuff you want someone who's writing it to go, okay, look, I want to get it more in that vibe. That's my tone. That's the first time out of any Tycho Batiti mentioning at all that I'm going, okay. I mean, if you actually do that, it's the same way. way where I've said it about Tycho Watiti. He's a really funny dude. One of the funniest people have ever met, by the way.

He was, like, just naturally funny. And you can tell inside of these comments, again, people are spinning. He was on Smartless, which is the Jason Bateman show and everything, too. And, like, he's cracking jokes here and there. So, but one of the things, though, the first time that he would, him, him being mentioned doing this, that I'm going, okay, this could make sense because his other movies have been really good. In the same way like Ryan Johnson, right?

Breaking Bad, Looper, these other movies. I'm not a Last Jedi guy. Yeah. But it doesn't mean that you can't turn things around and do something that even if you didn't like that last movie, you can like their next one. So the Mandalorian that he did, the episode was great, the season finale of whatever it was, Thor Ragnarok, I like a lot. If he can make a tone like that, if he does love and thunder, he's going to get roasted. for Star Wars.

Roasted. What do you think about these comments? My first thing when I read the comments was like I went the other way going Oh, he's fucking around. It seemed like that, yeah. Of course he wanted to do Marvel film. Of course.

But the way it seems everyone's taking it is like, dude, you know you shut your mouth. Read the room. I think that's it. I think that's it. But I took it as he's messing around. But I think it's all. Dude, I think it's all of it.

I think he absolutely is messing around, but he's also being honest in the fact that, like, look, I was, I needed a gig, and they called me, but he's not saying, like, oh, I didn't want to do those movies, even when they brought it up to me. What he said was, I didn't have an interest in doing it. I was, but I needed a job, and it was Marvel, and it paid a lot of money, which again is fair, and he's like, and then I read it, and they wanted to do a new spin, and then he took kind of self-loathing crack in himself, and he's like, they're coming after me, they're really scraping the bottom of the barrel. Of course he's messing around.

And then what they don't really finish with is that, but then I got into it. I found a take that made it work, and I did it, and I crushed it. What's interesting to me is I look back to when he came in with Ragnarok and did something completely different. Everyone, Hemsworth was like revitalized. He loved it. He loved working on it. The fans loved it.

They couldn't wait to see Thor again. And then the Rousseau's, they loved him in Endgame, or it was in Infinity War. He shows up first. They loved him in Infinity War. And it kind of took back a little bit what Tyca did, a little bit. and then To me, Tyca between Ragnarok and Love and Thunder

is Burton between Batman and Batman Returns. The studio just went, we love what you did. Hemsworth's like, I love what you did with this character. And now Hemsworth, you see him talking,

he's got to get back in serious again. You got to be serious again. Because the take that... Like they show clips like him doing the split and then being stripped naked and he's got a kid and you're just like...

But these comments are telling about that because I think... Yeah, because I think... he was done too. I think Tyka was done. I think Tyka said, you know, you want me to do another one? Then I'm going to do my, I'm going to do, because like I said, a billion times over, people are exhausted about it. Fikey said,

this is a Tycoe-a-a-titi movie. That's a mistake. That's a mistake. And Tyka even knows it. I think he did his own movie. Like with anything, I think they needed to have a little more rain on him and Love and Thunder. Yeah. And they didn't. And they didn't. But they didn't need to. But it's what scares me about the writing side of it is because

when he's directing it and he adds his spin inside of it, you get stuff like the Mandalorian finale, you get Ragnarok. When he's writing the full thing, you get love and thunder. He can't help but be funny and goofy. It's who he is. Who he is. And I didn't see his new movie. The soccer movie.

One shot, goal. One score, one last shot, one last, I don't know, whatever the fuck it's called. Kick these balls. These balls, but the Michael Fastbender one, it's got mixed reviews, but what I saw the majority from the reviews is that it was fairly generic with sports movie, feel good movie, and that

it looked like the same trope that you see. like a guy going to deal with losers and they bond together in love and they have the big game and they win. So he's on this right now. He was up here and now he's like he's right here. Remember Thorpe, Love and Thunder as much as I would put it in my lower

three Marvel movies. I mean, it might even land to the last. It still made money. It made a lot of money. It made a lot of money. So he's still coming off of a win there even though maybe not critically or at least fan-wise.

But I'm telling you, I think that these comments that he made, and I still stand by, I don't really want to see him do a Star Wars movie, but I liked these comments about Star Wars anyway. Yeah. And even though my story, because I tweeted it out where a gif of,

oh shit. Well, just of Jeff Goldblum going to the comments, you know, about the Marvel stuff. I saw that, yeah. But when it comes down to it, it's like when you read it at it, of context, you could look at it like, he was like, I don't want to do that stupid movie. That's not what you were saying. What he was saying was that at the time, he didn't have a gig,

he didn't give a shit about Thor. He looked into it, and he did it, and it worked. But that said, I think it helps, because we, you know, Alan Taylor did Dark World and people would say it's a snooze fest. I know a lot of people that do like it. I do like it. I don't mind it. I watched it recently. I still, people rank it in like their top three. I think the top three lowest. Okay. And I would... No, I wouldn't put it there at all. I would push back against that.

Yeah. I think there's a few movies that came out in the last three years that are way worse. I think the Marvels is worse. I can watch it and enjoy it, but I think having a guy coming in that doesn't have an attachment to Thor that's like they can mess with it. I mean, it's like what I want to say what Gilroy did with Andor, like didn't have to go, I'm not beholden to that. I don't care. I'm going to make the movie that's going to tell this story. But the difference is...

I love Ragnarok. Yeah. And I didn't like it at first. I did not like it at all at first. But I remember. bringing up and or the difference with Gilroy is Gilroy doesn't do the thing like from what I heard, how true it is, I don't know, but JJ,

JJ, Jay didn't wanna hear anybody, Jay didn't wanna hear from anybody. Yeah, Jay didn't wanna hear from anybody. Story group, nobody wanted to do his own thing. And Gilroy, he's like, look, I don't know about all this stuff. So, because if you look at there's one scene when they have like the ancient artifacts in the back, you think Gilroy's gonna be the one going, oh hey, put a Sith relic back there.

He's not gonna, who knows what should be back there? Well, that's why I'm sure Ty could listen to Fige and go, I don't know this, just like, yeah, do this, say this, you can do this. A couple things to throw this in there. The birth and the same daughter. And he seemed like he did that more in Ragnar. Sure. Because I'm telling you, it seems like a full-on, like, it's like if they were like, hey, now we want you to spoof Thor for a little bit.

Yeah. And we'll put it like as like a special. That's what, that's what Love and Thunder feels like for the most part. There's like 20 minutes of serious stuff. Now thinking about it, you know what it was felt tykish in the first one, Ragnarck, but it felt within this context of story, that whole thing of them doing the play of Asgard. Yeah, of course. Like that, but it worked. You're making fun of the material, but you're still respecting it.

Dude, there's a lot of stuff that he's got inside of that first one that feels Tyca, but it just doesn't, the same way we were talking about Ramey before you, it just doesn't overpower it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Doesn't overpowering. Speaking overpowering, yep, sometimes your day can overpower you, but you want to have energy man, and I'm telling you, that's why AG1, that's the way to go.

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Visit Wayfair.com or the Wayfair app. Wayfair, every style, every home. All right, let's get to the next one. Mike, I want to switch it up a little bit. Okay. Actually, let's stick with Star Wars. Let's stick with Star Wars for a second. Let's talk about some Flonny stuff.

This is from an interview with Vanity Fares, Anthony Bresnikin. Dave Flonie and the main cast of Asoka talked about Vader, their characters, Bailen's skull, and whether or not they think there's going to be in Asoka season two. One of the first things addressed is the Darth Vader-Vidal. Why bring him back? Was that really him in the world between worlds? And how did Hayden Christensen approach the character at this point in the Star Wars timeline? Zerio Dawson talks about what it means for Asoka now that she's finally been able to reckon with Anakin's legacy and what that means for her now that she's moved past that trauma.

She said, she had a very particular idea of him, the Jedi Order and who she was and all of that for a very long time until that image was shattered. The point we graduate to here is yet. He did some terrible things, and he also did some really great things. And it's always up to you how you choose the direction. She can look back at her own life. She's gone through some hardships that could have been the moment that turned her dark. She didn't go there, so I think she's starting to trust herself.

Maybe he's also a warning of what still can happen, but that's still significant in a positive way if you want it to be. We were able to take a little bit more time to go. What does this feel like? What does that mean? the choices that come from that kind of reckoning. We've seen that when she decided to leave the Jedi order. We saw that when she walked away from Anakin. There have been pivotal moments, and this felt like that seminal moment again.

This is a different rite of passage. We had so many moments of literal tears when we filmed episode five. I have a video, some of us, with the crew, just watching when Darth was walking up. We just wanted to be on the edge, just off camera, so we could watch him, encumbered with our own eyes and just take it. Are we really seeing what we're seeing right now? This is unbelievable. One of the things Dave Filoni wanted to do,

in Osoka was addressed the fallout of the Osoka versus Vader of conflict in Rebels. He says, while I had introduced in rebels the idea that she came to understand that Anakin had become Darth Vader, I never really dealt with the fallout from that. How does that affect somebody when a person that they really admire and looked up to turned out to not be the

person they thought they were? Are we all just capable of a fall from grace? And what is forgiveness? What shape does that look like? Did I take the good part of this person with me as well, or the bad, or the good? I thought there was a lot of interesting challenges for her. Anyone wondering if Anakin that we see in the world between worlds was real or just a figment

of her imagination, they're going to be left guessing? Lame. I knew that was going to be the answer. I don't know. I have to find out. As Hayden Christensen deliberately played it vague. However, he displayed a great level of insight that comes from playing the character across different eras.

That's the beauty of how the episode is constructed, in my opinion. Inevitably, the audience has to question is what they're watching. Come on. Is this really world between worlds? What is the world between worlds? Is this actually the spirit of Anakin Skywalker? Or is this all in her subconscious? And we're just going down the yellow brick road

as she's drowning and fighting for her life. I think that episode... Then why is Harry hearing lightsabers? Did you hear it, though? Or why's Jason hearing light savers? Come on. That doesn't make any sense. There's a lot to unpack potentially.

I was getting to play with a version of this character that I hadn't before, and that was the all-knowing, all-powerful Jedi master who could wield both sides of the force, light and dark at will and maybe the power to save Osok's life, which also is interesting

because it's the power that was trying to achieve when she pledged himself to the dark side. I hated that answer. Unsurprisingly, Filoni also prefers to leave it open to interpretation, stating that he's reluctant to touch Anakin, post-returned on a Jedi to not spoil George Lucas's story and his intentions for the character. The stuff that we talked about first was Rosario Dawson's comments, I loved, right? It's like getting back in that, of course, you see them in the suit, you see all these

things happening. This is what I told you last week. One of the things I'm worried about with Flonie taken over. It's like this, this subtle, quiet JJ Abrams' box. and all these things, you gotta figure it out. The mystery box, yeah. What are you talking about? You set up world between worlds

of this thing that was clearly a thing that they were able to access because the emperor was getting into it, and Ezra was able to figure out how to go through and they had this whole big, amazing episode on the Clone Wars and Rebels. How they could access to world between worlds. It was the thing that they were able to do.

And then you're like, well, you have to guess whether it was real or not, because someone like you doesn't even know, wait a minute. I don't know if that's really about. It's not, it wasn't, The writing was terrible then. If that was the case of what he just explained, he wrote that awfully.

If that's what he's explaining. And because why is Jason hearing the lightsaber? Do you think the World Between Worlds is going to play in his movie? Well, who knows with an answer like this. Because you need to explain the shit out of this to the audience, the general audience. But that's my point. He doesn't think so. He thinks, well, I want them to guess whether or not it's the World Between Worlds.

Someone like you doesn't even know what the hell the World Between Worlds is. That's a massive mistake. And that's why I was so nervous. Like why I told you, the nervousness of having Flonny run it is because it's like, dude, I watched all the rebels. I watched all the Clone Wars.

Not everybody did. You've got it. You can't. It's like, well, if somebody doesn't know what the world between worlds is in the first place, they're not going to be thinking, well, maybe is that the world between worlds?

Is it not? They're going to go, what the hell it is? They don't know if she drowned. And then the kids hearing lightsabers, of course they're going to hear it, think of it's real. And then for some reason, Hera hears it too.

It's like, that's a terrible, terrible comment. It hurts my brain. Yeah, it's like... So hearing the lightsabers, that was him hearing the world between worlds.

But she was in it. So how can it be a dream of other people planets aware are hearing it? I don't know. That's what I'm saying. It's like it's... It's as a...

Again, mentioning, like, my concern is that his writing is not as fleshed out as he thinks it is. And when it comes to like, you know, certain things of, well, I don't want, want it to to disrupt George's thing.

Well, what about Obi-Wan? That series completely shattered everything that George had set up for, like, Leia and all that stuff, but nobody gave a shit about that. So it's like, what are you talking about? That's true. What are you talking about that entire series, like completely unwinding tons of Georgia's stuff, and nobody cared. It's like, who cares?

What, flea in there? What? Why is flea in there? Benny Hill music. And it's like, it's so, so. stupid. But like it's stuff like that. That's why when people were asking me last way, they're like, what do you tell is a lot of speculation? It's right in front

of you. It's right in front of you. When you're reading comments like that, and there'll be tons of comments in here tonight going, no, you're misreading of what he's saying. No. That sounds pretty clear. That's pretty clear. I want him to guess. You're not David Chase. You're not David Chase. Like David Chase

had earned the kind of writing where you're going, and that pissed a lot of people, too, over the Sopranos. At the end, it's like, well, you got to... His death and stuff. Yeah, but it's, but it's, but When you look at that episode of The Sopranos where you're going to have to kind of guess what it is. First of all, he's earned it in the writing. Second of all, when you really look at all the kind of hidden kind of Easter eggs throughout it, it's brilliant in how it's set up, whether you like it or not.

This is just, well, even if you don't know what World Between Worlds is, you have to guess what it is. What? Just tell us, is it time travel? Is it not time travel? Are you going to use it again? If he uses it again down the road, like you said, he's got to make sure that he explains it. I don't know. Time travel is world between worlds could be time travel?

Well, exactly. The fact that you don't even, and some people say, well, it's not time travel. And we've gotten that, I've gotten that comment before. And how, so in Rebels, the end of season two, Asoka's fighting Vader. They have this big battle. And then this, Asoka pushes Ezra out of the way. It looks like this whole thing collapses. Every thought, Asoka could be dead, right?

And Vader gets out, you see Vader at the end of it, he's kind of like, it's a great scene. It's a really brilliant scene. and he's walking out, he's kind of breathing, but he survived. And you don't know what happened, Assook. You finally find out how Osoku was saved is that Ezra, when he's in the world between worlds, he pulls her out of that scene.

So essentially he's reaching into time and grabbing around people. Philoni says it's not time travel. Again, a comment that makes no sense. Of course it's time travel. He's reaching back into time and he's traveling through time to grab her and put her out.

Say, well, time's not literally. The world between worlds, a DSX Machina, where it's like a fix all whenever we have a problem, we can throw this in there and it's going to pull them out, we can pull this out. I think that it's not time travel, but it's dreaming, but if someone gets in a bind

where we really need them to not be in a bind and it's a story thing we did, we can... But that's why when people say it's not time travels, well, the whole point, he goes, he walks over with Assoca right afterwards and he's about to save Canaan who winds up, you know, sacrificing himself and goes to go

get Canaan and Assoc goes, don't because it's going to affect things. That's time travel. If you're going to, if you're going to, if you're going to, if they're saying it's not time travel because it's Star Wars and they don't want to put that connotation. So it's something else. It's, yeah, it's, space warping. It was the thing that.

Distance traveling. Someone kept sending me this article. Someone kept sending me an article going, well, no, he says it's not time travel. I don't care what he says. It's time travel. And it's the same way people were like, well, because last week we said that I, I'd said, I just don't feel that Flonny's a big fan of Andrew. I was like, no, no, no, no, he's talked about it. Here's, here's the one clip at celebration when he's mentioned.

They mentioned like a whole slate of shows. And he said, well, what Tony's doing with Empire Strikes Back? And he mentioned it once. So, fine, you got me. He brought it up once. You got me. He brought it up once. And I kept writing back.

And I said to people, I was like, look, and I appreciate it. And like I said, it's me speculating on it. And if you feel that he loves it, I'm happy. They kept trying to convince me, oh, what you're saying is, it's pure speculation. It is. But it's my speculation. Yeah. And I'm going to say, I'm not telling you that, hey, you know what, guys, you got

if you think that he likes it, you're wrong. So don't tell me that if I think that he doesn't, I'm wrong. You don't know that. Just the feeling. Just because he's talked about it once on stage when he was talking about all his projects, because again, he's going to be the guy that he's got to kind of, oh, yeah, yeah, and he did that well. I just haven't heard him rave about it. And it doesn't mean shit.

You guys can be 100% right. It just in my gut is the way that I feel. And the same way that I feel like. And he's never going to come on and say he doesn't like it. Never. No, no, no shitty. That would be silly. But like when I was listening, these comments, though, that he made about,

the world between worlds it's like that's that's the stuff that makes me nervous because he's as he's super knowledgeable and he knows star wars so well and he really is a guy that you want to be in the room and but it's certain things like this sometimes where it's just like we get I like everybody respects what he's done but when it's like well I want you to kind of guess it's like no don't start doing that don't start doing that just it's just it's not well written enough to be able to do that, in my opinion. People are going to lose their fucking minds on that, but whatever. I want to finish the article. I don't know anything to say. I really

don't much to say on that. I know. Who knows? I'm an outside spectator on that kind of stuff going into it. So this is the conversation continuing on. He said, my feeling about Anakin is that George resolved everything about Anakin, which I'm assuming, you know, he's talking about Return of the Jedi. But Vader dies. Yeah. I don't think I have anything to do there. I'm not trying to add anything

to that. And that's fair. Everything Anakin's involved with is about her. It's about her point of view on Anakin's about what Anakin taught her. He's there in more of an Obi-1 role than we saw in the old movies, which is, I love that episode and I agree. And that, okay,

so as much as I was giving him crap on that last comment, this, I agree with 100%. I thought he did that excellent. So, like, so giving, you know, when I thought that what he did well is, and we said this while watching it, it was the best version

of Anakin live action that we've seen by far. He was able to capture what he did in the Clone Wars and he gave us that feel and this is again as I was just kind of criticizing the comment that he just made before, I agree with him 100% here. This is a beautiful

version of Anakin and what he did there, the relationship of how he kind of set as Obi-Wan I think he accomplished really well. So I just wanted to make sure that I said that home team. Meaning what happens after Jedi involving Anakin will be in the focus of another character not him discovering. He's just talking

story. He's just talking about inside of there when it's it's about her, Asoka's point of view on her. And Anakin, of course, he's there with her. He's been there, but she couldn't see it. She couldn't feel it. She didn't know. She had herself isolated and made herself alone because she was afraid. He had done a great deal to alleviate that fear in her. And so there's a moment. I think he's proud of her in the end. He sees that she's going to be a better mentor. I debate force ghosts with people all the time. To me, what they are mainly is inspiration. You have people in your life that I'm sure. sure have inspired you and you feel that all the time. You feel that when you need it. I understand all that. And then Natasha Lou Bordizo spoke a little about Anakin's final appearance in the season finale and her excitement at sharing the stage with one of Star Wars legacy characters. She says, I was geeking out at that scene. We were on stage outside. That was not the volume for that scene. We shot it basically exactly as it is. He was standing there for real and it somehow makes it feel even more epic to me to bring those original characters into the fold of our story. That's pretty

cool. That's pretty awesome. Like if you're you're a Star Wars fan in general and even if you're on stage with these legacy characters and you look up and there's Hayden Christensen, you know, but it does, if he's there as a force ghost at the end of that series right? Well, is that connected

to the fact that he was there and this kind of wow, you're going to have to figure that for yourself? It's like, come on, what are you talking about? It's like, is that, like, that should all make sense. And so I don't know. I mean, I, do you think Here's another question.

Do you think Philoni actually really knows the answer to the question whether or not, which one world's was real or not? Or do you think he made it up for himself to go, I don't even know what the hell this is? I don't know. Right? What was I just watching where someone's just like, someone's going to ask me about this and I don't have an answer? I forgot what it was. But there's a filmmaker talking about something that happened in his movie.

He's like, I don't have the answer for it. Fair. All right. Okay. All right. Continuing on here. But the line of descendants is full of non-traditional Jedi and the Jedi who have turned. So it's not necessarily a very steady solid line.

to be trusted. Part of the reason Osoka originally had issues trusting Sabine was because I reminded her so much of her master in some ways in terms of the internal struggle that she was going through. Filoni also spoke about the surprising decision to put Ezra and Thrawn in a different galaxy. Most of all, he wanted it to be believable that they were somewhere, that they really couldn't be contacted by conventional means, but attack of the clones was a source of inspiration. He said if they were in the Star Wars galaxy, the old Star Wars galaxy that we know, I think somebody would have found them. There's too many starships. There's too many people traveling. You got a signal out, and I think you'd have found them if they wanted to be found.

I had to really throw them far afield. I think it's in attack of the clones. If you look, there's an image of the galaxy, and then there's actually these smaller galaxies near it. So I'm like, oh, that's interesting. I like that. I mean, that's the kind of detail that I... Well, hold on a second here.

Go ahead. So in Rebels, when he gets out, thrown away with Thron, they don't say where they went? They just left it nebulous? No, no, no. I think that they actually did say something along those. Because they mentioned something about the outer... Okay.

Yeah, because Rebels fans were talking about this for a bit, so I'm pretty sure that they did set this up because I actually, again, throwing more compliments than anything else too. That's the kind of stuff. As I mentioned last week, by the way, I said that there were positives and negatives of it. I didn't say that I was completely, you know, hated the idea,

but I said they were positives and negatives. One of the positives is, in that comment, Filoni's attention to detail. Yeah. And, like, his attention to detail, the understanding of the fact that he could be looking at and go, oh, wait a minute, You know what? I could use that.

He's creative as hell, man. And the way that he's able to kind of say, well, what if I do that? What if I do that? And that's kind of what the brilliance of George Lucas was, too, is that George Lucas is one of the best storytellers all time. It's okay if he's not able to, he wasn't the best writer, right? Well, he might have to say the same thing.

I don't think he's going to want to say that, but he might have to say the same thing. He's not the best writer, but he's a phenomenal storyteller. He's a great person for detail and understanding of the Star Wars lore. Do you think that that just comes from the fact that he kind of idolizes George Lucas and wants to be, and people look at him as the heir to Lucas. Maybe that's why everyone's seen that because they're so similar in the fact that their story, the grasp of story is incredible, whereas the dialogue, and I hate people.

I cannot stand what people say this. Like, well, just space wizards and laser swords. I hate that. Go watch the Empire Strikes Back. With a. passion because it speaks One it speaks down to kids like you're just like oh it's just for kids like kids today are so

fucking smart and the stuff that they love and can watch into the spider versus for kids is a cartoon too. It's brilliant. So when you say that you look like an idiot I'm sorry, it's true, it's true and it's also You look like if and I also want to clarify something I guess that I said a couple of it was last week too when I said that

because I had said something along the lines of that Osoka seemed a little bit more like animated writing people like what the hell does that mean? And they're right for saying what they're saying because like, look at Arcane was animated and it was brilliantly written and detailed writing. I think what I meant more so. I mean, I know what you meant.

But I came to like Rebels writing, right? And Rebels, people are like, well, Rebels was written wonderfully as an animated show. Like if you watch that, and it was also meant for Disney Jr. when it came out. So if you put the, if you transfer over the Rebels episodes from animated and put them on live action,

it doesn't play the same way. I'll tell you that right now. It's a different medium. Yes. It just is. And your pacing is different. Did you watch Arcane? No, I did not. Dude, Arcane is awesome.

You could transfer over Arcane and put that in a live action like that. Really? Yeah. Then what's the difference? Again, as I mentioned, written for Disney Jr. Which it needed to be. You have to balance that particular show to be good for children and adults. Arcane is written for adults.

So that's the difference in the same way that, you know, there's a lot of different shows that are. but it doesn't mean that there's necessary and I wasn't saying it was bad writing I was just saying it was a particular style of writing because I would never infer that the animated right all animated writing is for children that's that that that is ignorant I'll say this one of the best interpretations of Batman is Batman the animated series but if you took the script as it's written for an animated show Batman any episode and just filmed that as live action you'd laugh at it yeah you would because it's it's done with the voice actors in mind and they can like Kevin Conroy's

famous I am the night I am Batman famous line you say that in live action you get laughed at right but on cartoon it's phenomenal and chilling and every time he says it's great but you film Kevin Christian Bale saying that and you're just like now this is ridiculous it's just it's a certain medium yeah all right what do you guys think

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All right. Let's move on past this and let's get to what. Some comments that Christopher Nolan made about the blockbuster debate. All right. All right. Christopher Nolan weighs in on the blockbuster debate. There's been a lot. All this seems like the autours, if you will, have been ganging up and going after the blockbusters recently.

Well, filmmaker Christopher Nolan is in a fairly unique position in that aside from his earlier work like following and Memento, he's always been known for being a director of big studio films. On the other hand, he's very much an aunt and the kind of director. You don't hire to anonymously churn out a sequel to a beloved franchise. The one time he did dabble in franchises, namely the Dark Night trilogy, they were all done very much in his own voice. In a recent interview with the Associated Press, the Oppenheimer and prestige director, was asked to weigh in on the debate of how Hollywood has become over-reliant

on superhero films and blockbusters based on existing IP. Nolan stands up for the big films, calling them a crucial part of the film industry, which needs a variety of projects to keep the ecosystem healthy. He says there's always a balance in Hollywood between established titles that can assure a return audience and give people more of what they want. That's always been a big part of the economics of Hollywood,

and it pays for a lot of other types of films to be made and distributed. But there also always has to be respect for the audience's desire for something new. That's one of the big thrills of going to the movies, frankly, seeing a trailer for a movie you've never heard of, or a type of movie you haven't seen or haven't seen in a long time, something new, something fresh. A healthy ecosystem in Hollywood

is about a balance between the two things and always has been. The comments follow on from fellow author Martin Scraisezzi, saying there is a danger with these blockbusters are doing to our culture and how a whole generation thinks movies are only safe blockbuster thrill rides

can't be transgressive or experimental. I absolutely love Christopher Nolan's comments. I love them. Yeah, I don't. He's as much of a businessman as he is a brilliant, brilliant director. And like, I'm a Scorsese guy. I love Scorsese guy. I mean, and I really enjoy Killers of the Flower Moon.

I like the Irishman. I mean, Wolf of Wall Street's one of my favorite movies of all time. Is it? Love that movie. I do, too, but I didn't know it's one of your favorites. $26,000 on sides? On fucking sides? With the sides kill cancer?

Get the lutes. It's the best. But in general. and Goodfellas and everything. I mean, you know. I do feel, and he's earned the right to be a 76-year-old grandpa on the porch going, turn the superhero

movies off. I got some art. I want to watch. Let him. Let him. Let him. Christopher Nolan is in his prime. He's in his prime, and he understands the way the business works today in the way that Scores says he really understood the way that the business worked

back when he was in his prime. There was a different business back then. But he knew the way the business work because he was involved in the business. Scorsesey and he was like, I'm going to do a movie. What are you going to do? Whatever I want. I'm going to make a seven-hour movie and put it in theaters.

It lost the studio, $150 million. Who cares? What does he care? You know, it doesn't matter. He's like, I ruin his reputation. And his film, whether you love it or not, is going to be around for 30, 40 years and people are still going to be talking about it. They just are.

It's brilliantly made. But people aren't talking about it also. I mean, the movie also costs $200 plus million dollars to make. it lost money a ton but i watched that movie and i i i don't see how a dump movie that cost that i know it's a historic i know it's an epic almost four hours and i know it's a period piece and that adds cost but i'm just like i just don't think if think of what would you say that that movie would you say that that movie could cost 125 million dollars yeah right if it was if it was about an hour and 50 minutes cost about a hundred twenty five million dollars you're still using

the same sets you're still using the same costumes dude it's it's it's it's it's time Time is money and you got actors on there. Did he shoot on film or digital? I think he shot on film, I think. Well, then there's cost to that. Digital, there's no cost to that. But, dude, you're still, it's... You're renting the equipment, I know.

For extra days. I understand how the movie industry works. I think so. You do, but I'm saying building sets and all that stuff. I get it. I get it. And you're essentially a four-hour movie, close to it. That's two movies.

So you basically spent $120. I mean, also, you got De Niro and Cabrio. And that's... Of course. $50 million right there. That's what I'm saying. So you can see where, if you're going to make a movie that long, that movie was an hour and 45 minutes, it wouldn't have cost that much.

It's just different. You tell me a movie like Dead Reckoning cost $210 million. Oh, right. I'm not talking to $300 million because the COVID thing. $210 million. I 100% see where that went. You're taking over a mountain for three months to shoot a guy jumping six times a day. I see where it's $200 million.

Yeah. Safety, 100%. This movie, it's, I mean, I know this visual. effects in it. I know there are. A lot of locations. I know there are. A lot of locations. I know that. But you're building sets and yeah. It's just different. It's different. But then you look at the creator, $85 million and that thing looks

like a $2 million dollar movie. That's such an underrated I mean, whatever you want to feel about the movie. I actually really like that movie a lot. Yeah. But no one, even people who don't like the movie. You can't. It is deny.

Gorgeous and it looked, 85 million, whatever cost, and it looked like it cost $400 million. And it better CGI than a lot of big blockbuster movies. What is he being talked to to to direct? Oh, there was someone that... Oh, is it a Star Wars or a Marvel film? No. It's not Star Wars, but it's a Marvel? It was something...

Yeah, I saw something... Hold on me check. I'll transition into that one, too. That's a good... That's a good throw here. Yeah. Gareth Edwards is now being rumored for Thor 5. Marvel fans want to know if Rogue won a Star Wars story, the creator in 2014's Godzilla, Gareth Edwards, is directing Thor 5 for the MCU,

or if not him, who else could be doing it? Does Thor 5 have a director yet? No, Thor 5 does not have a director. At the time of this publishing, Thor 5 has not officially been confirmed by Marvel Studios and Kevin Feige, let alone a director. However, in industry insider, Daniel RPK, who is semi-reliable when it comes to Marvel Rumors, has revealed that Marvel Studios was not only reportedly planning a fifth Thor,

but they were also eyeing Gareth Edwards to take the gate. Moreover, he has also... revealed that Marvel's reported reasoning for considering, which is supposedly wanting the film to have more of a dark and mature tone compared to the last two films directed by Tyca, which were intentionally lighthearted, humorous, and over the top. Edwards is considered for Thor five fans also. While Edwards is reportedly considered for Thorpe five, fans have also thrown in other names like Furios' George Miller.

I mean, that'd be tough, but it'd be, I mean, holy moly. The Russo Brothers and Zach Snyder for the directing day. However, fans should take this information with a grand assault. with all rumors and wait for confirmation. Okay. So, and this is the funny thing about it. We've talked about this, and I think you even said this with the Marvels, right?

The, not the Marvels, Captain Marvel. The directors, you haven't heard from them at all. Now, eventually, and they did a billion-dollar movie. Now, eventually, maybe they'll have the same kind of thing that Edwards. Edwards goes and he's able, all right, well, I'm going to go do something else. And this one I will do, and you'll know that it's me. Totally me and watch what I do. Regardless of what it did box office,

like to me, that movie can get you a job. Like, it's a well-directed movie. It is, as we mentioned, he did what for, he did that for how much? Yeah, that's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. Especially now as Marvel wants to cut money down. 85 million and you did that? Yes, and you can also get a tone.

That's why this business is such a bitch and it's also forgiving, right? Yeah. If you can do something like that, and this is a very smart move by Edwards to go, I'm going to make this movie and it's kind of like, look what I can do, and check this out. And then he gets another big job. And this time, if I'm him, when I'm making this deal, it's like, let me make my movie, though.

Don't bring in other people to do my thing, whether you like it or not. It's interesting because, you know, Godzilla, the first one, that's really good. I enjoyed it. I think it takes a little too long to show the monsters. Yeah, same. But here we are, what, four or five movies,

a TV show based off that monsterverse. I'm like, hey, it's going strong. I think he's kind of like Ryan Johnson. And like after, you know, Last Jedi, whether you love or hate, and went and it's like, like, Rogue One. No, Rain Johnson. Oh, Ryan Johnson. Yeah, I said like him.

Okay. Last Jedi. And then whether you love it or hate it, whatever device, but then went and created, you know, knives out. Yeah, right. That's what I'm saying. Like he's, I mean. And so Garrett Edwards and now, and now Ryan Johnson is like, you know, he's got the juice. He's doing what he loves.

And he's like, if you want me again. Yeah. But Ryan Johnson's different, though, because Ryan Johnson, for a lot, even as much as divisive as that movie is, last Jedi. There are a lot of people who love that movie, right? Oh, 100%. Rogue 1 is loved, and most people, and I put a poll on this recently, most people, when you put, what is the best Star Wars movie that has come out in the Disney era? Yeah. It's Rogue 1. I saw. No one gives them credit for it because they know he didn't direct it. I saw one person, some people, they put it as their least favorite Star Wars film of all time.

Rogue 1? Yeah. Who? I don't want to say. Oh, I know. I know who it is. I can't with that. I can't with that. Love what you love, but it's a phenomenal movie. It's a great story. But let me ask you this. You just said about directing and you directed. Well, I shouldn't say, let me, let me

Rehate it. He didn't direct the whole movie. He certainly directed a lot of it. In our circle of film Twitter, we know that. We're aware of that. We don't know what the thing is, but to general audiences they don't. They don't know. And like in that article, the director of Rogue One. That's his first

like, boom. He should get the credit. it for it? Absolutely. Because he also played ball, right? He played ball and he never spoke out about it and everything he did what he had to do. It's just the fact that like you got, you have to be able to put the pieces together. He played ball. But yeah, he played ball. But like it's, it's the worst kept secret ever. I mean, you haven't watched the boys. But they actually, they crack kind of like a joke inside of it at one point. You're like, oh, like everybody knows it. And, and, but he's, you know, paid for it, did his thing and was able, like years later, finally does a movie. And this is a good, I like Gareth Edwards a lot.

I really do. And I loved what he did with the creator. I really did. And I was bummed that it didn't make more. But it's a great calling card. It's a great, it's a great resume thing. I don't think it not doing well was his fault, a fault of the film.

No, no, no, no. I don't think it's like one of those things where three, four years from now, you know, or when it gets a life, you know, when it's more available, people are going to be like, how did this movie not do well? It's fantastic.

I'm discovering it on Netflix and this and that. I saw it at the time. And again, cost is, I saw a big argument recently been happening a lot about just movie theaters and the cost. And it's with the Disney thing and everything. Sure.

Sure. Well, it's this whole thing that Nolan and everybody's talking about. It's the idea of, you know, the reason why it's like a catch-22 because there's a part of it going, yeah, you want new movies, you want these new things,

but the problem is that people don't want to spend money on stuff. They don't know what it is. It's like it reminds me of, My wife, like when I go to, if there's a new restaurant, and I'm like, hey, let's try this new, let's try this new Thai place. And she's like, I don't know how that is. Is it anything good?

And I'm like, I don't want to be adventurous tonight. I don't know if it's, what if we get the stomach problems from it. The stomach problems. I'll shit myself tonight. I'm going to shit myself. If I have bad food, I haven't heard enough about it. And it's like, well, do we want to go to an old faithful to where we know, we're going to go. And it's very similar to movies to where you're going to go to the movies and you're going to say,

okay, look. But we're getting to the problem. now where the old faithfuls are giving you the shits. You have 100%. And it's like, and that's why people, and that's why they're not doing as well. Because it's just like, oh,

well, they're just kind of, it's like when a restaurant becomes like chain restaurant. And it's just like, you don't have the original chefs kind of doing the same, you know what I mean? It's like the same recipe. And you're like, oh, this is just, oh, this is like, it's like when John McDonald's. It's like, after a while, it's like,

it tastes good in the airport every once in a while. But yeah, man. So it, and that's why the budgets come down. and you do something like, if you can make a Thor movie for like $120 million, you're gonna make money on it. It's like...

Sure. The goal has to be, because the studios got greedy. And like they always do, but they got really greedy when you had that burst of these movies making a billion dollars left and right.

Someone said, Mario of Disney, this is the first year it hasn't happened. They made a billion dollars for the past seven years, at least one film. And like, I think,

I forgot what year they listed in the past couple years. Seven of their films made a billion. $1,000. Seven films. It doesn't even a billion dollars in one year. So you can understand the kind of the greed side of it. But to see their year this year.

But they're like, oh, well, we can do it again. We can keep doing that. And they go, put $200 million in there. Oh, you need some reshoots fine. It balloons to $300. And then it barely even makes $400. I mean, you look at the box office of, let's look at the box office for some of these movies that they've done. Okay. I'm going to start with their most recent one,

and that's wish. Now, I didn't mind. this movie. It's not, it is, it is, it's generic. It's, it is, it is, you know, if, it's fine. My kids liked it. So, there you go. That's, and that's really what, what counts. It hit, it hit the target audience. However, you know, I made $48 million. What's the budget on it? How? How? It's a 200, like, again, $200 million to make that movie. So this is going to be a loss. How can an animated film with men and women sitting at a computer cost $200 million?

Animation is expensive. How? It's expensive. It's like the amount of, like, you know, the stuff you've got to put into it and the amount of... What are you putting into it? I mean, look. Fingers on a keyboard. And a mouse. Nah, that's, nah. You're being silly there. You're being silly there's a lot. There's a lot that goes into.

Adam Lavick right now is twitching. But like... Hold on. To make an animated film. Yeah. Now, are you using motion capture? Is it actors on a stage with motion capture? That's a whole different ball. They do a lot of different things with it. Either way, I'm not going to pretend that I know a lot.

Because I have no clue. What I will say is that a lot of these budgets kind of balloon up, but to make this movie for $200 million was a mistake for, that's a mistake. And I do think it was during that time of the overspending. It goes back to what we said. So that's, first one, $200 million budget, not including marketing, makes $48 million so far. It's spent out for a week. Worldwide has made $48 million. So what kind of legs it's going to have? I don't know. All right. Next one, the Marvels. All right. The Marvels.

around 250 worldwide. It's made 188 and it's on its way out of the theater probably in like another week or two. So that's a-250- Yeah, and that's not a gluing marketing. Billion bust. So second bust there already. Let's jump to Indiana Jones.

I know there's some other ones probably that came out. Now that one I could, I think I remember what the budget was, but I would understand where it would go. Indiana Jones and dialess, I don't. $300 million budget, not including market, is a is a is a is a crime three and say it's right three hundred eighty three million worldwide bust um what's another one uh ant man ant man in the lost quantumania budget 200 million dollars

so with marketing 300 plus so made 476 um so probably just about broke even losing a little money uh what else to be guardians guardians is probably their winner yeah i think that did like seven something guardians three budgets Guardians 3 budget was 250 Okay And it made a total of 845 million So that was a big winner

That was your closest one And it wasn't Was Dr. Changer's in this year Was last year? That was last year So what else came out this year? Is there another animated? Yeah, Elementals

Elemental, yeah See what that is Because that kind of got a second life It did but I still think you'd lost money Hold on Elemental Right elemental $200 million budget Okay

And it made a total of 500. So probably same thing, probably close to... Probably got about $50 million in the black. Maybe. Maybe, depending on, you know, a lot of money goes to theaters and stuff, too. So maybe right around that. But again, 200, when you're spending $200 million on it. And isn't this Disney's 100th year or two?

Yeah. As opposed to WB. Haunted Mansion. True. The Haunted Mansion goes for $150, smaller budget, smaller budget, makes $117 bombs. And then you also got us a Little Mermaid, right? Yeah. That had a lot of buzz to it, too, as opposed to Haunted Mansion.

Well, first of all, Haunted Mansion, didn't they come out like July? Like, what were you doing? Well, because it took the Marvel spot. Well, why didn't you put it in October? I don't remember. Come on now. The Little Mermaid. All right.

So, Little Mermaid budget, $250. Yeah. Makes just around $5.69. Not including marketing. What do you think? Breaks even? Barely breaks even. So this is, they've got like one.

winner. One winner. I mean, what, you... If you want to told me four years ago that that's the slate, one winner. What you'd have one... Indiana Jones, haunted mansion, Ant Man, Quantumania, Elemental, Little Mermaid, Marvel's,

Guardians 3. Wow. I mean... Yeah, it's... That's a tough investor's call. Yeah, brutal. Absolutely. I mean, this is a... This is a... This is like, I've got to be one of their worst years ever. It's like, it's like,

all those movies lost money except that one. Couple of them composed of breaking even. It's amazing how cyclical, not cyclical roller coaster it is because I would have never thought a million years Disney would be in this position. And again,

this is a lot of it's chappick, but a lot of it's IGRA now. Yeah, I mean. Because IGR controls, you know, marketing and this and that and that's all this. I mean, you can only market what you have, but like you also, now the question is, because of all that,

going back to that, Gareth Edwards conversation. Because of this now, if you've lost all this money, Iger has to put the iron fist and say, do not go over this budget. If you do, you are fired. Do not go over this budget.

You will not get any more. This is how you have to make this movie. But okay. Yeah. But then we're looking at it, and I'm not talking to Star Wars, what's going on, because I just wait with three movies, then plus two extras. And now Skeleton Crew is not coming out for another year. I'm not getting into that.

like the Marvel stuff, and that's where you're sitting there going, it seems like Marvel films, they have a budget, but then another film is being made at the same time. Oh, but we've got to add this to incorporate that. So then we're going to do some reshoots to add this. Like, reshoots are a part of every single film. Sure. But Marvel seems like it's put in because we know we're going to change stuff.

And that's why every time a costume comes up, they're in a gray suit so that they can digitally put the costume that they want. And that is money. Captain America is going to be the new one. It's going to be another. We're going to have another conversation about this. That movie's going to wind up costing about $250,000, $300 million. Well, they're reshooting the whole thing.

Because they're reshooting the whole freaking thing. But why? Because it's crap? Maybe. We don't know. Maybe. But I'm just saying, like, you green lit the script. And you are this.

Look how much money in reshoots in general. I mean, look at Daredevil. Oh, half the season is gone. We're doing the whole thing. They're redoing the whole thing because they probably, I mean, look, it's probably a good reason that they're doing it. Yeah, it probably is. But again, if you're eager, you're going, oh, my God, it's just this funny.

It's like, look at your, this is why when people say, by the way, oh, look at this stuff Disney's making, Disney isn't the one who is, is approving the scripts and stuff to these things. Like, right, when it comes to Lucas film, like Disney Star Wars, like, they'll never do that. It's like, Lucasfilm still calls the shots on what gets made. Yeah. Disney hands them the money to make in the same way that Marvel does. Because for people who are going, well, it's, since Disney took over,

it's been crap. All the stuff that sucks for Disney for Marvel, they blame on Disney. But they don't give the credit to Disney for Endgame. They still own them during Endgame. And they shouldn't get the credit for Endgame. As in the same reason, they shouldn't get the credit for the thing sucking,

but they are giving the money. They're giving the money, and you got... I think because for... The writing sucking. Marvel was a cash cow, and it was just like it's our Golden Goose. And the Golden Goose is not lending the gold anymore. I think they just, again, they just, because of, that is the Chepeg thing, where Cheapac's like, what you said, Golden Goose, give us more of it.

And Fragge is like, I can only, I don't, I'm not Kang. We got this Disney Plus series. This Disney, you got to give us some shows for this. Give us to shows. We want two shows out, and we want three movies. And he's like, holy shit. And there's only so much you could do. So I'm very curious.

This is why, like, the last part of the Sheapek thing was the Marvels. It was. Was that his last time? It was like the last one. It was already coming out. and they're, so Deadpool starts, it is to me, as important as Superman to DC. Really? Yeah.

But I guess, I was talking to someone. I don't think that, but for me, and again, again, I can't speak for general audiences. I don't view Deadpool as part of the MCU. I know he's being manipulated into it and it's going to become into it. But to me, I still, it's still Fox. And I know there's no Fox. I know. I get it, but it's going to, but it is.

going to be part of their narrative going forward to lead into as you said before focus in on your other stories to get us to those big movies then that's my point my point is if it drops the ball and it doesn't deliver it and it's just like that just feels like a Fox movie and it didn't do anything yeah or worse than that it's bad which again I don't think any of that I think actually is gonna play I think it's gonna deliver but if it doesn't and it turns out that it's another disappointment and it loses money it's it they're and they're They're on the verge of...

I think the good thing for Deadpool, aside from the film, as how long there's not going to be anything until we see... Like, there's not going to... Super Hill film. Right. There's Aquaman, but...

Well, you get the TV show. Echo. That doesn't matter. Yeah. I'm just saying, for general audiences, because we will all show up for Deadpool. We will all be their opening weekend. Will the general audiences,

or are they done with superheroes? Because I'll tell you this. And they could segue into our final story about Aquaman, or I don't know if it's the final story, but about Aquaman. And we needing a hit, it's not going to be it. It's not going to do well.

I'll show for it. I hope it does. The only reason it's got a shot, the only reason it's got a shot is because there's nothing else out to see. People like to go to the movies during Christmas. I know, man. I know.

And I still, I'd say this, I still say this. Aquamanus top five DC EU for me. I love it. Because I had no preconceptions going in and it just gave us everything. I had fun.

And this seems more like that. Let's hit this and then we will call it a day. Aquaman and the Lost Kingdom. This is from comicbook movie.com. Theater owners are worried that Christmas box office hinges on the DCEU sequel. This is a damning report about the state of the movie-going experience. Theater owners admit they're concerned that the Christmas box office currently hinges on the final DCU movie, and that's Aquaman and the Lost Kingdom.

This time last year, no one would have predicted the runaway successes of movies like Barbie and Taylor Swift, the ERISTor. Similarly, we are betting. None of you expected to see such dismal box office. halls for the Flash and the Marvels. Heading into the holiday season, there's no Spider-Man, No Way Home, or Avatar the Way of the Water to save the day. Instead, we're getting movies like Wonka and Migration, along with the final DC-EU movie,

Aquaman, and The Lost Kingdom. Variety has spoken with a number of theater owners, and they all have one thing in common. They're worried. You can't look at the release schedule between now and the end of the year and find one movie that stands out like Avatar as the big film. Phoenix Theater's owner, Cory Jacobson, tells the trade. Exhibitor relations analyst Jeff Bach adds,

The holiday season is on the shoulders of Aquaman, and that's not a good shoulder to put anything on it. That's a good... That's a great quote. The main concern is that if Aquaman and the Lost Kingdom doesn't take off, theater owners will find themselves with a lot of empty screens. Jeff Logan, the owner of Logan Luxury Theater, seems disillusioned.

Studios have IP, and I think they think it's a golden ticket, but it's oversaturated. We've seen it all before multiple times. Those things aren't events anymore. They aren't rare. It's just this month's superhero movie. It's a great quote. It's a great quote.

The first Aquaman's movie overperformed, opening to a so-so $67 million before later grossing $335 million in North America and $1.15 billion worldwide. The hope now is the sequel can replicate that runaway success, but after three DC-EU flops in 2023, doesn't seem likely. James Wan and Jason Mamoa,

along with Patrick Wilson, Amber Hurd, Yaya Abdul Mateen and Nicole Kimman returned in the sequel to the highest grossing DC film of all time. Having failed, all right. That's still insane. I hear that,

read it. It's the highest one. It's insane to me. Over Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman. Over the Trinity. Over the DC, you, right? Is it over DC? No, no.

I think Dark Night. Is it dark night? Yeah. It's got to be. Darking rises. Yeah, and I think the DCU of this era. But it's insane. But you look at it, though,

and I think they echo your sentiment, And I don't think anybody thinks this movie's going to save it. It's certainly not going to have like avatar numbers. You just, it's like, and I know people have talked about this. Like, oh, they don't understand what James Gunn and the reset. I will forever think that that was a terrible time to announce James Gung when he came on TV and had that thing about we're doing this. It's like you, the slate was gone at that point. Anything that came after that.

It's just going to hurt. It's going to hurt. Like you just can't like. And again, Shazam wasn't good. But it's a catch 22. too because you had to do it. You had to do it. Because you were in planning.

Your stuff was good casting. You had to. Because what are you going to do? He was behind the eight ball. Because here's the thing. Looking about all the news that has come out about it so far and the casting and Superman and all that. If you.

Yeah, you're right. Plan it out. And by the end of December, Aquaman comes out and then you announced James Gunn in January. And you're like, oh yeah, by the way, now we're going to do a movie in a year from now. And you're like, good luck. Yeah. Yeah. And he was, he's captaining in a ship in just incredibly ridiculous waters that had to navigate.

But that's why. But the audiences, I know people on Twitter, like, only us at film Twitter, we know about the resetting. No, it's out there in the world. They know that there's going to be a, it's kind of. I don't, I'm actually with the, I'm with the people you're, I'm part of the people that you're mocking because I, they're. Really? Yeah, because the casual audience doesn't know about this James Gunn stuff. Like my friend, again, my friend.

So they just think to, so then why? They don't know what it is. they don't care because it's what that dude said, the theater guy. It's the superhero movie of the month. But the Flash had all this buzz of this is going to be the game changer. It didn't matter. No one showed up. Right. Inside of our business. Inside

of our business, the general audience said, sure. They don't care. By your thinking then, this movie should make a billion dollars. No. Because it's not, because of what that guy just said. It is now it's not special anymore. And so the audience is like, oh, here's another one. It's like, there's the, there's the

But don't you feel like back in the 2000s, like every three, four months is a superhero film? No. I felt like it was always like, oh, we got Hellboy, we got Fantastic Four. We got Hancock. We got... 2005. Iron Man. We got Batman.

It's different. You're spreading it in within years, not in the same year. 2008 was a huge year. 2008 was... That's when it started. That's when it started, but it started to become a little bit more special because D.C. was doing the stuff with the Dark, with the Dark Night trilogy, right? And then you had the MCU was star. So it was special because there was this new thing.

Now it's just like, okay, well, it's, like you said before, it worked. So now do another one. And we're still in that plan. Disney Plus and Marvel movies at the same time. It's a lot. You've got seven projects in a year. There's just tons of it. And subpar stuff.

Subpar stuff. It's a reason why Guardians hit. It was a good movie. And it was a third movie of a popular franchise. And I'd say that because I was like, I had said that of this year, I was like, Guardians is going to be bulletproof because it's the final, everyone's saying this is the last time we're seeing this cast together. It's James going out with the characters.

Yeah. This one's going to be bulletproof. We can't judge superhero fatigue off of the Guardians. You can't. And that prove true. You can't, you can't prove it. You can't judge the MCU off of it because it doesn't even connect to any of this stuff they're doing. It's the end of their trilogy.

There's no. No. So, oh, I'm saying, I don't think Aquaman is going to do well at all. But I... It's going to hurt theaters. I think it's going to be... But I just found out about migration. I work Universal and we've got the billboards up

like a week ago. I was like, what? Is that right? Huh? That's the name? Migration. Do you know how I found out about it? My six-year-old. Yeah. My six-year-old was just like, I want to see migration. I was like, what the hell is that? And I see the doctor-in. You want to talk about marketing. I know. And I saw, I mean, I saw it when we were watched the Thanksgiving parade. What does that do with Christmas? Nothing. I don't know. I didn't see the movie. Not that anything has met, but like, you

always felt like, oh, it's the holidays. What does Aquaman have to do with Christmas? I know. But for me, there was always a Bond movie at the holidays. Always a bond movie I mean, yeah, there's certain things. They need to, they definitely, look, the theater experience right now is in a very different situation. And streaming has done that to it, too. So they've got to find a way to get the audience into the theater again because the audience now, the general audience, casual audience, is flocking to the audience for things that they really want to see Taylor Swift, right? Sure, that's a. For sure, the concert film.

The Beyonce film will do well, too, by the way. The Beyonce concert film will do well. Barbie did very well. That was a, yeah, the Barb and Oppenheimer, that was an event. Yeah, that was a, they couldn't plan that in there, thank you their lucky stars that that happened. I think both movies do well on their own. But in the way that. If there was no Oppenheimer with Barbie, I think Barbie would have done very well.

I don't know if it would have hit a billion. Same with Oppenheimer. I think it would have done maybe five, six, $700. All right, it's a supersized episode. I hope you guys enjoyed it. We talked about a lot. So make sure that you guys, uh, Comment, let your voices be known.

Anything we talked about here today, please let us know. Do you think that Aquaman's going to be able to save theaters? Or 2024 really has to be the year that everybody tries to catch up. What say you? Again, comment. Mike, where can they find you? At Michael Inoski. That's it.

It's pretty easy. All right. For me, guys, right there. See that thing's swirling around? Hit the button. Get us to 200,000 faster than we got to 100. I appreciate it. Thank you so much for joining us here today.

If you're able to help out the show and you can check out one of our wonders, please do it. And if you're going to be in the Burbank area, guys, we're going to be at Flappers Comedy Club this Saturday night, 930, get tickets at Flappers. Come and join us. We're excited. We want to see you guys. Want to sell this thing out. It's going to be probably the last live show we do in a very long time. So we hope that you can join us.

All right. For myself and Mike Kalanowski, thanks. We'll see you next time.