The Kristian Harloff Show - Is Ant-Man and The Wasp Quantumania the best or worst Ant-Man film? (SPOILERS)

Episode Date: February 27, 2023

Ant-Man and the Wasp has hit the theaters and what a major conversation starter it is! Scott Lang and Kang battle it out in the Quantum realm. Is this movie the best or worst Ant-man or something in between. has the MCU got off to a good start for Phase 5 or does it need to turn around? Kristian Harloff, Winston Marsll and coy Jandreau discuss on this special episode of The Big Thing! mcu #marvel #antmanandthewaspquantumania Thanks to Carbon Health: http://www.carbonhealth.com ATHLETIC GREENS: http://www.athleticgreens.com/bigthing GREEN CHEF: http://www.greenchef.com/thing60 MAGIC MIND: http://www.magicmind.co/Kristian CODE: KRISTIAN20 WATCH THE COWBOY AND THE SAMURAI: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P95e0DMy2Ww&t=309s Become a Patron!: https://www.patreon.com/TheBigThingShow OUR MERCH STORE IS LIVE: https://www.teepublic.com/stores/the-big-thing-kh-channel?ref_id=27393 FOLLOW KRISTIAN + FIND HIM ON CAMEO https://cameo.com/kristianharloff https://twitter.com/kristianharloff https://facebook.com/harloff https://instagram.com/kristianharloff AMAZON WISHLIST: https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/1KPH42T0TP0PG?ref=cm_sw_em_r_un_un_djbxgIW5ZQMMg SCHMOEDOWN ARCHIVE CHANNEL: https://www.youtube.com/c/TheMovieTriviaSchmoedownArchives Ask Kristian questions for next time! https://facebook.com/harloff OTHER GREAT CONTENT: REVIEWS https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLSJdE28YyUT368qY7sfE0nKE4c04CqGvu TV REVIEWS https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLSJdE28YyUT1LU-t2Z9AD5UJDiWW4pS_E STAR WARS SHOW https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLSJdE28YyUT0XmfpbblkF9PY7uO2qhbN6 THE BIG THING PODCAST https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLSJdE28YyUT3KAwbzDsv6mdR-gwUiydQg

Hey there, it's Wayfair here, where delivery and setup are as easy as a few taps on your phone. You're relaxing in an old hammock, scrolling Wayfair's app, when you spot it, a brand new patio set. Next thing you know, Wayfair delivers it right to your patio and sets it up. Oh, you need a new grill, too? All right, Wayfair's got you covered. With Wayfair's room of choice delivery and fast experts set up on qualifying orders, life gets a little easier. Visit Wayfair.com or the Wayfair app. going on, everybody. Before we even get started on today's show, I wanted to let you guys know, you guys know my buddy Jamie Costa. He's one of the most talented people that I know, a very talented

actor, but just an overall really good dude, Star Wars Fanatic, everything. And Jamie and another guy has become a close friend of mine is Jake Lewis, who's put me on a lot of his stand-up comedy shows, and he's been in Big Big Thing Show before singing a few songs, and I'm just a really talented guy. They did a movie, a short film, called The Cowboy and the Samurai. And it is basically about an event that happened between John Belushi and Jack Nicholson in 1978. Jamie plays Jack Nicholson. Sandy Danto, who I've known from the Comedy Store, plays John Belushi. And they put this short up.

I'm going to put a link in the description. I want you guys check it out. Jake Lewis is also, the Lewis brothers, him and his brother, another talented guy, are also the minds behind the Jamie Costa, Robin Williams short that went viral. And so this is one that they put a lot of time in effort. into it. So I hope you take a look. The link is in the description here. So enjoy it. And let's talk about Ant Man, Man, Man. Let's up Ant Man Man Man. What's going on everybody? Happy Monday. Thanks for joining us on the episode of The Big Thing. This is a full on spoiler conversation of Ant Man and the

Wasquantamia, the 727th film in the MCU. Paul Rudd, Evangeline Lily, Ant Man and the Wasquantamania. And we're going to get into it. We did a non-sponsored. Spoiler conversation on this past week's Big Thing, Caps and Cows. But Winston and Coy are back for this spoiler-heavy review on the film. It's very divisive movies so far, man. People have been, you know, it's split. And I don't even know. It might be, it may be under 51% by the time this comes out.

It is the second rotten tomatoes, excuse me, second rotten, rotten tomato score in the MCU only under the Eternals. So we'll get into it. We'll dive into it deep. But before we do any of that, I need you guys to show just a little bit of class and subscribe. It doesn't cost you shit to do. Pretty easy. We've got a lot of different things.

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It helps support the show. And you can come on over and we do Q&As and a bunch of other things that we'd love to have. you over there as well. Apple Podcasts, Spotify, we're on video on Spotify. You can come over there and you can watch the video. We're in the top charts now. That's been great. And you can get yourself a shirt. You want to get the big thing shirt. You want to get capes and cows, anything, special designs, and they're on sale at the moment. So head on over there. All right. As I mentioned, Coy and Winston are here. So let's do it, everybody. Let's get into the big thing. I can't wait to talk about this at depth. Here we go, everybody. It's the big thing. Let's do it.

What's going on, everybody. Welcome back. Big thing with me. Coy. Winston A. Marshall. Back. Back, baby. Almost. Almost got the whole thing cleared.

But not this time. Today is just a big thing. So, let's get into it, guys. We're going to talk about this movie in depth. I think all three of us are kind of the same with me. I mentioned, I like the sci-fi elements of this show, or this movie for sure. but I understand where it's not going to be for everybody. And it's certainly even more so.

You and I talked about it. It has like this kind of Eternals feel where people are just not on board with it for sure. But I think to set this up and throw it to you guys on the court and you take it where you want to take it. It starts off. I love the fact that they got right into the quantum realm. I like that they started off with Scott and he's walking around. They had that ant man feel where he's like, this is what I did in that voiceover where he kind of served the purpose of Luis. I did miss the regular crew.

I did. I think that I thought that they would at least appear there or at the end at least. They're not even anywhere near the movie. And I would have liked to see Michael Peña and the guys there. I would have personally preferred to see Michael Peña over the Baskin Robbins guy. I mean, it was a nice callback because the guy, you know, really shone on him. And he was funny, but he's not. But Michael Payne deserved to come back.

Absolutely. And I know that TI was pulled for some behavioral drama. But I, I, um, I did miss them. And like, even if we had gotten to see them, and I know one of the crew did get to voice a character. Desk Mashion, yeah. Exactly.

I would have loved to have had them just be careful. If not them, maybe Scott meets a version of them in the quantum realm. Or like, oh, my God, you guys remind me of some people, like, for real. That would have been, like, a fun little nod. I feel like one of the things that makes the Ant Man franchise unique in the MCU is that they do feel all very cohesive to each other. like the first Avenger and Winter Soldier feel very different, very intentionally,

but like all three of those films feel different, and this is the first time one director has done a whole trilogy. Like Peyton Reed's the first trilogy director in the MCU. To release, I guess. Yeah, because Guardian's not yet. And he'll be the second. But like Peyton Reed's the first one to complete his trilogy, so it would have been nice to have those characters

who are so formative kind of complete their journey. John Watts? John Watts. Sony asterisk, but I'll take it. You're right. But Peyton Reed, like I feel like that, that uniting force is those characters. So you could have had Luis catch up

on what happened in those five years. It would have been really funny to have Luis survived the blip and then have him narrate to Paul Rudd what happened. It would have been fun to have Dasmalsh and maybe do a book reading because like that guy's Russian accent's delightful.

It would have been, any of those things would have worked for me just to tie it all in, but I miss them too. Yeah, so they weren't, again, it didn't necessarily take away from the movie, but it was just,

they were really making it seem like this is all this big connected thing. And even Jimmy Wu was in it, you know? Yeah. So like he, for that quick scene, Cameo because I don't even think he said anything.

No, but they were just showing that it all connected. So it was weird. It was a little, it was as noticeable to me that they weren't in it, the same way it was very noticeable to me like Stallone wasn't in Creek. Right. So it was because they just had such a big part in the other ones. And I didn't necessarily think that we needed them in it for the quantum realm. I think for that.

But anyway, the point is they start out, you have this whole thing. It's a nice moment. And then it's like, okay, when they have Cassie in jail, I'm like, oh no is they gonna just her personality is so radically different she was never like this but then we see she's got her father's tendencies but it was more that she was at a protest and that's why

she got arrested and find herself in trouble she's not like a I mean like a real criminal you know she's got that kind of same type thing with her dad same same thing with her dad the same way that and then you know the idea that she's been working with the

PIMS the whole time it was cute where is it At first I was like, oh, she's like figured out like slight a hand like her dad with the magic stuff. And it was like, oh, she's like a car. Oh, no. And I really like the family dynamic stuff a lot. Like that dinner table scene was on my favorite scenes in the movie. I really liked that they enhanced and they leaned into like, I think this is maybe my favorite Michael Douglas performance in a long time.

I feel like nobody's talking about how great Michael Douglas is. But like the family element really worked for me in this. And it didn't even start though with that, as I said, it didn't even start with that scene of Paul Rudd doing his walk down the thing. it started with Michelle Pfeiffer in the quantum realm and meeting Kang for the first time and popping in it. And that was a good, I think, intro. Like, that's why a lot of the movie in the very beginning,

I thought was very well-paced and really moved at a steady speed. And then when they got right into the quantum realm, like I was like, how long is it going to take them before they get there? And it's like, they're in. And like they're setting the signal out. And we ultimately find out that it was Modoc. That was the one who was kind of putting out there. And I'd love.

liked the backstory of Janet of saying, you get that, Modoc was the one that sent the signal out. I didn't, remember, Modoc said when he looked at, when he looked at, when he looked at Casey,

he said, thanks for doing that, by the way, Cassie. Oh, I guess I must have missed that. When they're in the jail. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But either way, you know, they go there and, and then it sets it up,

and it was almost, it was built out because of, that whole realm was built out because of Janet and Kang. Yeah. That was, I like that stuff. That, to me, was the science fiction stuff

that really, I thought, worked well. The first two acts of this film, And this is spoiler, so I'm just going to say when it changed for me. The first two acts I was so in, and Greg had seen it before me, and he was like, I don't know what you're going to think, but I want you to go in and hopefully you've got more out of it than I do. And he's right. The third act is, it's so.

I see. It's also like it makes the rest of the phase concerning, but they're literally. How so? Because Kang got taken out by ants. Like, okay, so literally, and I made a whole video about this on my YouTube that you can go, if you want to see my deeper discussion of it, this is just in brief. Three changes elevate this. them from a D plus C minus to an A from it.

Three changes, three. One, if at the end, the post-credit scene, the Kangs go, ah, the exiled one, our weakest, instead of our strongest, then it makes sense that Ant-Man could fight him. You literally make Kang a bigger bad for all of Phase 5, and you eliminate a lot of my problems with Kang being able to be taken up by ants, even for a moment, much less be taken out by Ant-Man of the team. Two, the only Avenger that deals with time, that doesn't deal with time travel, is Ant-Man. The size relativity of Ant Man means that his sense of time is different than everybody else is when he's big, when he's small.

They didn't even address the fact that I would have Kang not be able to fight Ant Man and his family because he doesn't know how to deal with time relativity. So use the family element, use them all uniting, use the fact that she doesn't think that he cares enough and actually tie that plot line together with Kang as opposed to having them be at odds for no reason. Kang fighting Ant Man doesn't make sense unless it's about time relativity, about when he changes size, Kang doesn't know what to do with it. And three, Kang never wields time offensively. And there's a point where he could have done that, like, to show his power.

And when he's got them in the prison, instead of using a weird telekinesis thing, why isn't he aging up, Cassie and aging down Paul Rudd? Or welcoming them by having, like, I'll reward you with that time back. But isn't he not able to do that because he's... When he's in the suit, he's got his power back. She says, like, now he's got, you know, so, like, I would have that... I know, but him losing the core, it's... sounded like he has like his beams, his telekines, but the point was that without that core,

he didn't have the mastery of time like he normally does, because you're right. He'll essentially do what cable will do sometimes and almost like body shift. Right, right, right, using time. Like, so I get that. Where my problem is, and you're talking about power, we were talking about power scaling and the non-spoiler, the ants, I'll give you that because Michael Douglas set that up. No, no, no, they built this crazy advanced society. Fine.

Let's give you that for half a second, right? We watched Kang come out of his palace pissed off, and he's just like, bam, he is literally incinerating people. Like, did he disintegrate? It seems like they just come apart Adams wise. How is it that then when he shoots Scott one time, Scott doesn't just disintegrate. There's nothing about that suit that has ever been like,

there are like energy shields or there's something in here that counteracts his things. And if there is, explain it. Explain it. Otherwise, he took a shot to the chest and he was just like, oh, man, that kind of hurt. Right. What? And that's why the line,

But when Felks said everything is like the weakest of us, we exiled him for being weak. Like you could have actually made it so like that Kang isn't. And that makes them more intimidating for all of Phase 5 as opposed to an hour. I'm like, man, Jonathan Major's performance, and I said this in my spoiler free. His performance is Kang,

but the writing wasn't Kang. So I kept feeling like I love that Kang is so grandiose, but he earns it. Kang is very verbose in his speech. But like, and like Majors was, but like then by the time he's got minions and he's not fighting his own battles and then he's not doing anything.

That was the problem for me. He's hiding. Because you look at like Kang, right? and the thing is he's supposed to come out, and this is, again, to reiterate what I said on Caps and Cows on Friday, I had mentioned they're setting him up. They need to set him up to be more powerful than Thanos and more intimidating. People are like, no, he's not better than Thanos. I never said that. What I'm telling you is that that's what they were setting up. Because Thanos, as you mentioned on Friday, I thought really well was that they gave Thanos the time to breathe to be so menacing, right? And with this is that he shows up, and it was my concern that I told to you guys that like if he gets kind of taken out easily,

and then you had mentioned, which essentially what happened, if he gets taken out easily, you're like, well, there's going to be so many other kings that come back. It's going to be scary. And that is scary, but the problem was, as you mentioned, like, Modoc started to become more of the eye focus of villain for a little bit, and you're like, you know, and his redemption story and all this things that Corey Stoll does with Modoc,

that started to become more interesting. And Kang at some point, you're like, that shouldn't be a thing. And I loved what Corey Stoll, Modoc did, but that shouldn't be at the cost of Kang, which it was. And I also felt like Jonathan Majors was delivering such a performance that he had to outact some of the choices they had plot-wise, Kang making. And that was really frustrating to see an actor being like, I get this guy. And then the writing would be like, we're going to go over here for Deiasex Machina performance.

And also it felt like it was Marvel episode 32 instead of Ant Man. Like it felt like it had to serve phase five, which I get it has to, but it shouldn't feel like it has to. Yeah, I mean, look, the science fiction part of it is. what I really liked about. I loved the feel and like the setup. I agree. I think that the first, the more and more I talk about the movie, the first two acts of the movie really worked for me and set it up. And I think largely because not only what Jonathan Majors is doing, obviously, but it's really what Michelle Pfeiffer is doing. Michelle Pfeiffer and Janet have the biggest arc in the movie because she's been holding this in. Yeah. And she's been holding in the fact that like,

I'm not telling anybody about this guy. he's staying there. I ain't going down there. He's staying there. And it sucks for them, but I ain't letting him come out. Yeah. And then she's pulled back into it.

And I believe, because I started thinking about a couple of times, like, well, why didn't, was that ever really there in the other movies when she was in, in Ant Man in the Wasp? Do you see any of that kind of stuff that even hinted at?

I'm like, no, because she buried it. She buried it and she didn't want it. And I believed it. Well, so you are bringing me directly to my actual problem with the movie. And I spoke about it a little bit on Friday. It's that how is the movie called Ant Man and the Wasp?

And the Wasp, or at least the one that's currently carrying the mantle, not really a part of this movie. She does the end. She comes in at the end and saves him out of nowhere. Which, to me, wasn't earned. It would have made sense if Janet came back and made some big sacrifice again. You know that was. That was them in the room, basically,

going, I didn't do shit with him. We don't know. What does she has the big moment? So what are we going to do with her? Well, we don't know what to do with her right now. And we, she really hasn't, she had a couple of things here and there. She scooped them up in the probability. Yeah, she came back and helped him out in the field. She made, she had a couple moments with her parents, you know, and that thing. But like, we need to have a big moment. What if she's the one who saved Scott? Okay. Cool. Because, because you thought it was going to be his daughter. Right. And like, now, I can't be, you can't be Cassie because she's done too much.

Cassie has way more to do. Yeah. But she doesn't. Right. Why call it A man in the was. And so this was my, this, I know it feels weird to take a step backwards, but you just call it Ant Man quantum man. I agree. And, but, but the other way that you could have dealt with this, honestly, I love Michael Douglas. He does do an incredible job with this. Have Michael Douglas almost, I know you don't like Les Jedi,

but you know how Chewy's kind of on his own and has his own little, let Michael Douglas get lost in the quantum realm. They're freaking out about it, and it's like, we got other stuff to worry about. We will find your dad. And he's out here chilling with the ants. Right, they did that, but they just did it late. Yeah, they put it on that. The whole walk-up.

But leave him alone with Janet and Hope. Let them have a mother-daughter thing because she has her beef with her mom about what are you not telling me? I've been trying to get. Right. Well, because they would have more time together if they did that for sure. Because I think. At a sea plot with Douglas. Yeah, because you put him there because instead they did this thing.

Huh? Yeah. And then they shoot. Then they had that forced flashback where we were like, we were there. It was 10 minutes ago. Right. Thanks. You have that.

You have the fact with him with the ship, which is still kind of like funny or whatever, but like. When he puts his arms in the ship thing? Right. you let Janet and be with her, like there's all these talks, and you've seen a lot of movies now in TV shows where like moms and daughters are being more honest with themselves and daughters learned that the mom, you know, back in college,

she used to get, let Janet be there with her mom. Had that weird moment with her. Or hope be with her mom and be like, that guy? Yeah. Like, mom, are you kidding? And let that be between them. Leave Hank out of it. And Hank doesn't need to know about it. And because of that.

Although it's great to see Michael Douglas in. Oh, absolutely. That was a moment. Absolutely. You can get lost after that. Yeah, right. Find another way that maybe he shows up later. He's like, then he could have that moment.

But I think the problem is, is that for her to be second build, for her to have such a major element of the first two films and to then be non-existent. Oh, I don't think anybody describes you. I think that was one of my biggest things, even the non-spoor. It's called Amman the Wasp. You don't really see much. They could have had her do more for sure. But I will also say that I think one of the things on the positive side is that what I really liked inside of the, the science fiction element, they did it twice,

was when everybody's talking like the quantum alien language, and they're like, I don't understand anything you're saying. They're like, drink the ooze. So good. And when they, then you start, it was like, it was reminded me of like the, a different device, but in like Avatar,

yeah, yeah, and Avatar, one of the things I loved was when Jake tells us, yeah, after a while you just start hearing. It sounds like English. Like, okay, cool. Then that's similar to what you were just saying before. Just explain it. Like how is everyone talking?

Because if you get down there and everybody's just talking English, like, oh, everyone just talks English down here. But they're like, no, it's gibberish. Quantum talk. My God, if you had even said with Kang shooting those blasts, man, the constant exposure to pin particles must have been preventing me from disintegrating. Like I said, there's single lines fix this film.

But I bet you if I keep shooting your ass, I can get around that, like anything. Now you think because this movie was a little over two hours, right? Like two 10. Two 10. I thought it was just under two. I think by the time, But it plays in that realm.

Yeah. So do you think because Black Panther 2 was like seven hours long? And Eternal was like 10 hours long. And like all these movies, I mean, I think Dr. Strange was like 220 or something. Maybe he's a little, that one was, I think it was a little shorter. I don't know how long Thor was. But do you think because the runtimes have been a little too long lately and because those movies haven't been, I mean, Black Panther out of all those were received probably the best out of all of them?

but do you think they were like, okay, let's trim it down. Sure. But in doing that, you lose stuff. I don't know if they ever thought about these, like, problems. It doesn't feel like the third act was very well rewritten. Like, to me, the first two acts are all about creativity. They're all about introducing cool characters. They're getting a lot of sci-fi.

The entire first two acts is ripe with creativity. So the reason I, the reason I was more positive in my non-spoiler and more negative in my spoiler is I do think it's worth people to go experience the first two acts. I don't want people to not see this film because those first two acts. two acts. When I rewatched it a second time, I was like, was I too hard on this because I was so happy the first two acts. I love the way the world is set up. But then the third act literally becomes the

every single action movie trope where you've got freedom fighters storming a city that is overrun by And I don't think that was earned. And that's also not Kang. Yeah. Like I don't feel like Kang conquering is him like having lackeys that go out and it also isn't the creativity anymore. What the problem is, is they

took too long for him to get in the mix because he does, but the thing is the minute it starts to look like some things he's like nah nah I have a lot of fun killing people I'm gonna go do it yeah he doesn't wait until the entire army is practically dead he's like fine I'll do it now he goes

oh we lost one tower I'm going out there and he'll just like Kang and the moment he said Kang like the moment Jonathan Major's finally said his name I was like that's the guy I haven't waiting for and I like that it was a slow build you earned it but by that point I was like yeah but bro you've been talking to these Power Ranger minions like

I don't really am not invested in the choices you yeah his soldiers aren't do it really do it for me I'll tell you what, though, what did was that, as you guys mentioned, I loved that scene, the understanding of the relationship between Kang and Janet. And when she realizes right as she helps him get that ship working again, and she sees everything that he did. And that whole thing was he's still like, yeah, I'm going to keep my promise to you. You're going to go back and see your daughter and everything's going to be cool.

Come on. Yeah. And she's like, no, I see what you did. He's like, yeah, but your world's going to be fine. Yeah. Let's go. That's how we'd see it. I love that.

And she's like, no, I wanted to be. more of that. And like, that's why I saw this movie and I saw it and then I was sitting next to Ellis and I said to Ellis at the end of it. I was like, man, I was pretty chaotic at the end. He's like, and Ellis loved it. It was like, no, I dug it. And I was like, I had they just ended the movie like that though in as chaotic as it was, he leaves and then it's over and not wrapped it up the way that they did. I think it would have had way more of an issue with it, but I like the way it wrapped and I like the idea of him going, yeah, I think we took that guy out, right?

See, I love the dread, but I wish we had more of that in the film. It felt like Scott Lang was like consequence. And the movie feels consequence free. The movie itself, other than that moment of the end, there's no big pain. Nothing happened. That's going to affect anyone else. There's no big pain moment. Like we thought, we thought Hank would go.

We thought Janet would go. We thought Scott might go. We thought Scott might go. We thought something. There's no big, no, there's no major thing of loss to where Kang comes out going, well, that guy caused havoc. He didn't. He just was a prison guy that couldn't get out and tried to fight our heroes and it didn't work out for him. I got a question, too, because this was confusing me with the probability thing.

Like, I thought it was like, oh, this is kind of funny at first. Then I was like, this is also very chaotic. How is it that hopes ass was just able to, like, even though all these things are spawning off her, she doesn't think about it. She doesn't get phased by it. She's just like straight up going straight to Scott. That's it. That's the only thing that matters.

Like, and it's not even like a, like Matthew McConaughey, like, what's the fourth dimension? It's love, mom. Right, right. They could have said, like, you know, my focus, like, but that would have taken his focus line away. So it's like. Well, that was the whole point of him. Like they say, because Modoc says to him, you're going to lose your mind in that spot. And she just comes in and goes, no, that's cool.

No, no, I'm fine. I'm totally fine. Oh, what? There's like 50 of me? Yeah, it's good point. Yeah. Yeah, she wouldn't have any knowledge of why that was happening. Well, so look, so this is another reason why I always talk about TV, right?

And I've talked about it so many times over and I use whether it's Last of Us or Mandalorian or any of these shows as an example of why I think TV is so much more relevant of storytelling than movies. And I know people go and they go to movies and they, and not all movies. A lot of movies, especially movies like this. because the problem is this is what you run into when it comes to big blockbuster movies. What you have to do and what Ant Man needs to do in order to be successful is what? Make money. And it's got to make money in that first weekend to really become a hit.

So in order to do that and you want people to go see a movie, you got to, well, what's our, and Peyton Reed's been marketing office going. This is the big epic one. This is the big one. So when you have that set piece at the end, when they're all, and Scott's a million feet tall and fighting everybody and all these moments. and even Modos, like, well, that's big. Like, all that stuff, like that's a, that, that is a moment that you need for this big blockbuster, but it takes away from all that stuff we're talking about here that could have made the movie better with certain character developments and other things that would have added time to it, that in a TV show, and I'm not telling you they should have made this a TV show.

I'm just saying, though, that what you're able to do inside of a TV show is every week start to build off a character is that you have so much more depth that this movie suffered from. But I feel like what phase one through three did was be a TV show. Like phase one through three was able to build. Like look at Infinity War and Endgame. They're able to beautifully bow up all those arcs because it had been a TV show. That led to that. But I feel like what I'm concerned about phase four and I hope I'm wrong is that the way they grew out. No, no, like look.

I was about saying phase four, I'm hoping what like phase four is all of that intentionally go. That way in phase six it comes back and then retroactively phase four. great. That's my dream. I just don't know if I have faith in that anymore. I've always said like hey, let's wait for phase five and six to see if phase four is as messy as it feels because Figey's got a plan because there's something going on here. I think the reason I'm the most affected by

this movie is because up until this movie, I was like, I have faith in the plan. And then I watched this movie and I was like, this undermined the entire point of Kang. And now I'm like, is there a plan? Is it going to be okay in phase six? Because like I said at the top, the only villain that

would accidentally work with Ant Man, is Kang because of the time disparity and they didn't even acknowledge it when there's a hundred lines of dialogue of I've lost time this is time. You make a good point though. I was I was being big is still tiny I wanted to show him he's still like size of a quark he wouldn't need the lime wedges he's still infinitely small their own rules are broken

I would want to see I kind of wanted to him to show Scott like what he could have gotten back yeah like I wanted to see him show like show Scott and somewhere like hey this is what you could have and it's before it's before the jail time. He's the only one with a child in the snap.

Yeah, and he gets to spend all. I lost his kids. He lost his time. Like, it was beautifully unique. Right. They didn't spend enough time in there because when we all discussed this, it was like, well, Scott's got something

to gain back because he's had no time with his daughter. He lost the time in jail from the first one. He lost time when, from in-house arrest. He lost time when he was in the quantum room the first time. He's lost all this time. And they kind of mentioned it a little, but I thought that was going to be the drive.

force of the story. And it opens with her doing time. There's a joke you could make there and they like the jokes. She did time. That's time lost. There's so much there. I think that that was, there's a part of me that I don't necessarily have a problem with that.

I think it would have been kind of messy to try and go back and rewrite some of that. Not rewrite it. I'm just saying, no, no, no. But like letting Kang use that as the dangling carrot of like, I can give you all those years you lost. I can walk you right backwards. Because the truth is, even though they've kind of. moved on with life, they technically could have done that anyway.

They had already figured out how to use the quantum room to time travel. So if that was something that you wanted to do, he could have done that. But that's the butterfly effect that does cause your education. I know. So like the same thing would have applied if Kang had been like, I'll walk you back there myself. So that to me was never a good reason to get him to go forward. I like that they decided to use this is a moment for him and Cassie to truly start to bond, that she was kind of keeping from him, that I'm trying to be more like,

you than you are and even checking him and being like you became a pseudo-celebrity now you don't give a damn about the little guy like you always talk about so that didn't bother me personally um it is just genuinely from the they they found a way to both build up and nerf kang at the same time which is so counterintuitive i think that's what koi said though too i think that's because of the brilliance of the acting ability yeah i think it was jonathan majors you made him because the first two acts are kang and it's building but by the time he actually says kang which is the moment i was waiting for, he'd already given me emotionally that, but the story hadn't. If you actually look at King's story, the first two acts, it's all like, what's you

going to do? What's you going to do? By the time he starts doing it, you're like, this is what he's going to do. So, like, it's two acts of like, the, it's the jaws thing. They did such a good jaws thing, even while showing Jonathan Majors. And then once they have the shark, would you, you're talking about that new Geico commercial where it's like, to have an epic sci-fi horror, you need a really good monster. And then they cut the camera. They're like, oh my God, it's tedious. And it's just this nerdy-ass dude to green screen. Right, right, right.

So by the time we got to Jonathan Majors, he's kind of that. And so he does a good job being the shark, and he does a good job delaying. Like, one of my favorite things Jonathan Nger said in all the press was, I chose to have him speak like a man that could speak every language. And I was like, that's Kang. And then by the time we got to the point where he was revealing more than that, like, interesting allusion to power, the power itself was like,

oh, he's got a little, pew, pew, pibu. So, all right, before we get into, We'll get into a lot more. I want to get into Modoc. I want to get into a little bit more. And even, I think, transitioning also to what you guys said about how they set up Kang so well. And then Modoc kind of takes over in the third act. And it was more about him.

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So you have them in the prison cells. You're using the telekinesis to literally shrink their outfits around them and like crush them, right? How is it then when it's time to actually fight? You can't just instantly go, bitch, we did this before. Where does power go? Where did it go? I'm very confused. Was it because they were inside of a jail cell? Fine. In this jail cell, I control. everything inside this jail cell.

Yeah. And I didn't understand. He had a thing about his arm that looked like when the suit broke, he had less power. But it didn't really like, but I was post-Ans. Well, but that was the other thing was, yeah, stuff like that. I wanted to see, like you said, I wanted to see him use time more and just be more of that, you just aging up, Cassie, just making it so like you've already lost time with your daughter, how about more?

That's way more threatening than like, what if I, uh, Gene Gray a little bit? And it's like, if you're the time conqueror, I get that you can do your little portal thing, But also let me play with time. Like, it's literally a time. You know, the deadliest Kang found outside of when he was using the telekinesis on them was, once he didn't have his powers, I was like, bro, this dude clearly beat the breaks off of creed. Dude. You think Scott Lang is about to go hands with Kang? And he's, like, come on, bro.

I love that, like, they even tied in. I love that Jonathan Majors himself, I think, tied in. Okay, the suit is top heavy. This is right here. How would he fight? And it's all legs because he's got his little flappy dressy thing on. So he's, like, leaning in. the kicks and then once his sleeves off, he literally fought like a man that's fought in a hundred

styles. It was genius. And that's what I wanted to say. So like when he says in the thing that they showed it like D-23 and I guess you said, a guy saw at a Comic-Con where he goes, oh, you're an Avenger. I've I killed you before. Like that's kind of like mentioned, but like they didn't really show that kind of stuff. You know, it would have been great if they like showed a moment.

Like one of the things I did like about Dr. Strange in the multiverse of madness was that opening scene when he's, you know, it looked really Sam Ramey-ish. but like the idea of here's another, here's another version of him running around and this is what happens and he dies. And maybe because they did that, they didn't want to do it, but what a version of where, you know,

you see one of the Avengers fighting Kang, and you've seen this like this is, he was scary because of the performance and I love that they didn't make him jockey. He wasn't joking. He didn't need to be, but I would have liked the scene a little bit more to make him so terrifying to understand

what he's able to do with those powers. Didn't he say at one point that he had killed Thor And so, so how is it that you're out here being like, I'm murdered four? Right. So Ant Man's punching me is going to be enough to stop. Like you, again, you have built him up to this level of just like malicious malevolence. Now, is he less powerful in the quantum realm? Because if it was, I don't know if it was explaining it more.

If they said he's the weakest Kang, like I said at the very top, if you give one line of dialogue that he's the weakest Kang, you can't even play with the idea that he's taking. other Kang credit. You can even play with the idea of like, he's a jealous Kang that just wanted to be like the other like variants. Like you can make it so he's trying to be the guy and he's not the guy. That's more interesting. It also makes Fave 5 bigger. It also makes the next Kang you meet scarier.

It also makes the post credit scene work more. But instead they made it like, we had to exile the crazy one. And the crazy one's like, I did some stuff, but I can't fight Ant Man. And then they didn't even make the time element of Ant Man against him. They just made it so like he's got overwhelmed by ants.

And then he fights while hurt, which is way more stereotypical and warring. But even the end of it, like you said, like it was, as he's fighting them and they're getting this fight, and by the way, totally ruined, totally ruined in that stupid trailer when they show, I don't have to win. Yeah.

We just both have to lose. I was like, okay, so that's coming up, so we know that's going to happen. That was a terrible choice to put, like the worst choice of a trailer moment since the first Avengers when they showed the Hulk rescue Iron Man. Yeah. That is, that in the trailer?

Yeah. I don't remember that. Yeah, yeah. That was, that was the, Absolutely. Those are the two worst reveals in Marvel trailers ever. And this was the second one ever. It was such a bad reveal because I was waiting for it.

Yeah. I was waiting for that to come. And I was hoping it was a cutout scene. That didn't even happen. But so the one thing, though, even though I didn't want it to happen, they're fighting. And I go, okay, well, the big loss moment here is going to be Scott. Scott's going to die.

Right. It's what I didn't want to happen. But it looks like it's going to happen because the thing gets shut out. And he's either going to be caught in the quantum realm again like forever or going to be running the thing. And then when they, when they show her, like we said, they give the was something to do and she comes in,

but it's just not as impactful. Bro. Because you're like, you're like, oh. Put, said Janet and Hank, make the original Ant Man and Wasca. But even if they save him,

the point of that is that, well, he saved and he made, he made it out anyway. There's no consequence to Kang's introduction. Right. We literally met Kang in this movie. King didn't do anything.

The big bad of phase five. Kill a bunch of extras. And yeah, he killed a bunch of extras. And then he got, got trapped against a machine and blift into it, which is also like every 80s and 90s action movie. And they didn't even make it.

So like, Modoc turns and you have Scott realize he can't like let him get out. Why don't you let Modoc's tech, which was clearly made by Kang. He has Kang's hand like the colors and everything else. Why not have the turn be with Modoc's technology, machine design only for killing, plus Pym particles shrink Kang down so he's trapped in an infinite loop of time where he is already in the quantum realm. He has no power because he's stuck in time. They say out of time and place.

Use Modoc's powers plus Pim particles. Have that be the T-N-Up. Actually, have Kang have a consequence. Yeah, well, it's right there. Yeah, it's true. You mentioned Modok, though. We're talking about him. Corey stole.

Corey Stoll coming back. Because a lot of people, I didn't mind Corey Stoll as Yellow Jacket. I liked the character, but a lot of people feel he's one of the weakest villains. I think he's one of the weeks. A lot of people do. This redeemed him. And that was the point.

The point was that it seemed like this kind of redeemed what he was doing and when he was down there because I didn't know. All I knew from Modoc was, from what I heard, I knew nothing about him, the character at all. And then I just remember being a big goofy head or something like that and the personality. And they played into that, but they changed the mythology.

And the mythology was that in the comic books, he was like this assassin, that the same type of thing happened to him. But, you know, he became this weapon. It was, it was AIM. So they already covered AIM with Iron Man 3.

And so what it was is an AIM scientist signed up to be an experiment. And they were going to make him this ultimate killing machine. But originally he was supposed to, supposed to be for computing. Yeah. But then once he gets that power, especially because he tried to back out of it, they're like, screw you, dude, you're going to do it. He kind of snapped, and he's like, a machine only designed for computing.

I'm about to kill, and he just starts murking people. Well, and so, you're right. And so, and he says ridiculous things and stuff like that, too, inside the comics and all that, right? So I didn't have an issue that to change your origin. But I was watching it. I'm going, I wonder if people who were expecting that Modoc are going to be upset with it, But the way that they played it and the idea that he's just,

and it was another way to kind of show you Kang's power, was he could just throw Modoc who was mowing people down and just toss him like a little garbage can. And I was like, okay, that moment works. And then the turn, as, this is what I mentioned on the non-spoiler, the turn I thought was abrupt. I thought I liked it, but I thought it came out of nowhere. I thought of just the idea of Cassie going, don't be a dick.

And he's like, oh, you're right, you know what? I don't want to be a dick anymore. This is a guy that like, you look at what he did in that first movie, and he's, and he, there was no change. And you would have said to Darren Cross in the first movie, don't be a dick. Don't be a dick. He would have turned you into goo. Right.

And now he's even more angry because he's a, he's a garbage can with little arms. Yeah, he's literally. With those little ass hanging out. Right. Because the other thing about it that's interesting, if you remember in the first one, we were doing the rewatch, Hank warns him, you have to be careful if you're not, if you don't have the controlled pin particles, it drives you insane.

Right. So now he's not insane. He's just a dick. Well, no, because I mean, he's just, he's a complete mess, right? Yeah, the whole time is emotional. Right. And he's, and so when it's just this one turn, that's what I'm saying like there, where sometimes Guardians, Ant Man, are the two movies that are the most,

or the most guilty of it, sacrificing the actual moment for a joke to work, even if it's a very funny joke. And I thought that the joke of don't be a dick was hilarious. And it got the biggest laugh in the theater. That's the one you're talking. I'm there. The Avenger line was the best. I think the Avenger line is the best one of the movie.

Because the Avenger line worked well because here's the difference between the two. The two of those lines, as much as I think, again, the don't be a dick line got a big laugh in the theater. And him going on, I didn't want to be a dick anymore. And that's why he turned. It was funny. But when you look at the overall, that's how they turned him just because of that, like you can really dive deep and go. That doesn't really make a lot of sense of why he did it, but fine. That's why.

That's why he turned the heel turn from baby face term. The Avengers line is him dying and it doesn't change his personality. It's his personality is the same. It's the same way he's like, oh, now I'm an Avenger. And like, well, and he's spitting up blood or whatever he's doing. And it's like, that to me, that worked better than the dick line because it was, the dick line was like, oh, what if he says, you can see him in the writer's room and like, oh, that'd be hilarious if he said that.

And that's how he turns. I don't want to be a ticket. Right, right. And it's just like that's, I mean, this. I did like the one extra beat that allowed for a moment of, of, of, self-inspection of like what else am I, who am I? I kind of like the idea that he's been pushed around by Kang and he doesn't want to be a guy that's just a lackey,

but I would have loved at least a scene of that. That would rationalize. Like, what else do I have down here? Oh, I'll be the good guy. But we needed a moment of like him even like maybe not working for Kang anymore. I don't like how he's treating me beyond the flick. Right. They just show him like he just kind of treats him like a garbage can the whole time

and he just like... But the colleague of him outweighed that for me. Like I know there's issues with... But like the, I was the only one that laughed both showings, but for some reason, I don't know why. When he comes up and he like, and there's like a really dramatic Michael Douglas shot, and he goes, hey, Hank, it's so funny to me.

Like, I just, it was like peak humor. And so Modoc, to me, worked with the new invented backstory. Do you know what I loved what it was, a good bit that worked relevant? Because every single person who saw him after he'd been introduced, the same reaction. What happened? Yeah, yeah. That's amazing.

That was brilliant. That works because a lot of times you wouldn't do that again. He was like, oh, we did that already. But you see that. That's what you do. And it's like, even, like, and they'd done it with, and, and, um, hope had already reacted to him. And we all got new ones.

I loved everyone. And then when, when Hank sees me, he's like, Aaron? Dary. Bro, I also, I, costume design wise, I love that they kept the original modoc grimace as being the front of his helmet. Yeah.

And then pulling it up to see his, yeah. Yeah. So you can actually emote and whatnot. I thought that was a really nice touch. Also, like, what else is he got? People are saying it's like the worst CGI they've seen. Like what else does a giant spread-out face close-up look like?

I thought it was incredible. Well, I'll tell you why. One of the main things also is he was, I think that Modoc could have been, he was a little big in the ass. And I think that's because he hasn't been eating well. And I'll tell you why. Got to tell you about Green Chef. Love Green Chef.

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I've been making these rice bowls with them, too, the peppers that they send, put a little hot sauce in it too. Oh, man, I've been making some really great stuff with Green Chef. So you guys go ahead and try it. Again, use that code and help yourself out. And let me know what you do. Tell me what you think about Green Chef. Okay, jumping back into it. Now, I think that for a third movie,

do we think we're going to see a fourth Ant Man film? I don't think so. I don't think so either. I think we see Ant Man again. Yeah. He's around. You have to. Yeah.

And Cassie, too, because again, I have never been more sure that a young Avengers, maybe that's the one reveal that isn't much of a secret because you put out too many of these. It was a weird quote by a producer recently that was saying, like, we have no plans for a Young Avengers film. And I was like, is this A, a mislead because they can obviously lie like everyone always has? Or B, them looking at phase four and being like, we're not going to the plan we originally had. Or C, is it, we're not going to do it because we don't have time before these kids get too old because we have to change our plan for phase five.

But I was an interesting moment where I was like, I thought so as well. I wouldn't be surprised if the way they said that because we, do we have details on the Thunderbolts yet? In what way? They changed some stuff up about it. I know, I mean... I would not be surprised since the Thunderbolts are kind of anti-hero slash villains,

if maybe the people they end up, like, kind of fighting at the end. That's what I always thought would be Young Avengers. Might be the Young Avengers. I don't know, though, because I'll tell you why. I think that one of the things that she was... I should stand punching kids. To me, Miss Marvel, I mean, who... Wait, we got Miss Marvel, right?

Who would be the Young Avengers? We'd be Miss Marvel, the two, the two boys, so Speed and Wicken. From One of the kids. Oh, okay. You would have, Kate Bishop, Cassie Lang, Elijah Bradley. So, no, no, no, no.

His name's Elijah. Yeah, yeah. I think all those, all those kids are really good in what they do. And, you know, I mean, Haley Stenfeld is not really a kid anymore. She's a young woman. But like, but either, either way, though, I just think that's one of the things that's, that's, yeah, an Ironheart. I think that's one of the things that, I think that the problem is sometimes that they try to push you into this thing. where they're like, okay, here are all the new stars coming at you.

The problem I always have with, like Joel, not Joel, Edgerton. Sam Worthington when he first came out, I like Sam Worthington now, even more so. And that with Joe Keniman and Guy Courtney as well. Joe Courtney, absolutely. Those are the three that I was going to use. Literally those three because it's, and it takes nothing away from all three of them as actors. Sure. They're all good actors, but when you look at roles that they have, they shine in the supporting roles, right?

These roles that we're talking about for Young Avengers is like, well, we want to, to do it and these are going to be your new stars. I don't think any of them are superstars yet, and I don't think any of them should be leading in a movie yet. I think the only one that I will tell you right now, yes, from Ms. Marvel, because she's going to be the standout of the, of the Marvel. So here's how I think this plays out. Haley Stainfield. Haley Stainfield is a star in her own right. There's no doubt about it. But Kate Bishop to me right now is not, Haley Stainfeld I love. I like her better in Bumblebee than I did in Hawkeye. I loved I love Bumblebee. I liked her way better. and like Hawkeye was like I had a lot of problems with how Kate Bishop was just you know kind of like

people argue with me all the time but she's just it's not that she does well she I know she trained I understand that she was doing mixed martial arts for since she was younger I get all that too doesn't mean she was a normal kid just going to school and then she's flipping off the cars fighting assassins like I know people who are very funny that don't just jump up and start becoming stand-up comedians they're like they they have anxiety going into her right now she just right away I know how to fight so I can fight people on cars and fight the same way that I would. If I had all this training in, you know, ops and all this. It's like, no, it's like that type of stuff wasn't earned for me and all that.

But I think she's great. You know, and I thought Florence Pugh, she's going to be in. I think Thunderbolts. So this is why I think it's Thunderbolts. Because you have a, one, most of these villains have a direct tie to the adult counterparts to this. And the main connection you already have with Yelena being, I guess, the leader of it based off of where they positioned her in the photo. One of the things Sebastian Stan is apparently leading, according to Fige's most recent thing, just so you have that awareness. He's doing what?

He's the one leading. So that being said, think about all the connections. So you have both U.S. agent and Sebastian Stan directly for Eli. You have the fact that Kate and Yelena have their relationship and how that's already going in that regard. You already have those kind of elements Laced in for them to kind of be those opposites to each other And whether it's the Young Avengers Young Avengers

Trying to stop the Thunderbolts because they're like You guys are all kind of evil And then the Thunderbolts go the Suicide Squad route Where they're the unlikely heroes and things kind of change on it That seems to be a way that you could kind of bring that in And then those kids maybe get re-in looked at again during secret I don't think if Young Avengers happens I don't think it happens until

way after phase I don't think they get their own movie I think that team comes I think the team comes together but I don't think they get their own movie like that See I think Thunderbolts is going to be the government using what we already got started in Miss Marvel as a way to

hey we have to have regulated heroes as like a soft civil war kind of regulation issue and then the Young Avengers are unregulated so maybe there's someone the Thunderbolt shut down in the first act as a way to be like hey look at how powerful they are it's kind of like a warm up villain and the warm-up villain happens to be the Young Avengers,

and then you have a big bad for the Thunderballs. That could work great. Look, there's a lot that kind of, there's so much of, that's happening in the MCU that leads into that it's a lot to work with in your mind. It can be overwhelming. Yeah.

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Man, you talk about, it's great for people with ADD. I'll tell you that much. So check it out of the links in the description. All right, let's, before we get out of here, let's dive into these post-credit scenes because there's two of them, right? And you mentioned it briefly with the... Council of Cangs, right?

So the only thing, I thought it was a terrifying scene and I thought it really worked well, but if you're going to make any comment about the CGI being lacklustre, it was in that scene. Which is really difficult already because... You seem like he was wearing a lot of Halloween costumes. Yeah, if you take that scene out of context, it looks like an SNL skit. He does.

And that's not, it's like, Jonathan Majors is hosting this week. Like, it's just, it's dangerous. Yeah, it's true. And, like, it's feeding a lot of the naysayers, like, fire. And so I was really like, I love the concept, but the execution's like, okay, was this directed by the digital shorts guy? Good, Mike T. Emma, much love. But my concern is if that is how they're going to set up the Kang Dynasty, it can't feel trivialized. That should have been a little more serious.

Yeah. Like, I also didn't love that the three. of them were like very invested and then they cut to the room and they were like, why were they bros? Why were they frat bros? Why were they frat bros? Why were they like cheering in a Coliseum? And I love that Majors what I think Jonathan Majors does better than anyone

is he takes the acting a warm up style of like do it in a different voice. Yeah. And he is sincere in every one of them. So to see him do three different ridiculous voices and land it with such pathos and then the final post-credit scene, B.A.

dramatically paused choice and still buy it. I will buy all of his cans. But they took that strength away from him by having it be three caricatures that then or a bunch of people yelling. So then like you don't get the majors thing. Like you, you took away

his major asset, which is Ravitas. Yeah. I mean, I mean, also, I think it was more so to show you how much. Maybe rushed, but also I think that the impact of that scene was more so to show you how many that there are. But that's what I mean, that's the SNL skit. I know. I know, I get it. But I think it's for the, you got

remember on the casual viewer side of it too it's also you're talking to the audience that says you know the guy who walks in who's never seen a lot of stuff going oh so there's like a ton of them with that visual alone you get sure and then the scene with loki that that's clearly a scene to the same way that i gave the criticism to like ironheart that is clearly just a scene to set up season two of loki which i am a big fan of that show so that i was like okay that's what they're really going to be doing here because remember when we left loki um and um is it more not morbius but what's it mobius mobius when they left mobius and mobius didn't know who loki was right so clearly they get back on the same page whether or not his memories or they have just work into together again and have to

do the whole thing over again um they're investigating kang now and they're doing it now does that mean did we get a confirmation that jonathan majors has a big role in loki season two it seems like he does Yeah. That gets me to want to tune in even more. Right. And I think it's smart that they're finally doing the cohesion and post credits to the shows as well as the movies. Of course, yeah. Because they needed to make it as important as it actually is.

Because saying you don't have to watch the stuff is like, that's not true. Well, and it's also the interestingly they did with the Council of Kang's is the three that we get the conversation with. They're like, they've started to figure out time travel. They've started to figure it like. So it also lends, to be honest with you, that Kang all of a sudden is just going to start appearing all over the place. Well, the rules are going to be different in the show now because the rules are so different in Loki season one because it was the TVA holding everything together. There's no TVA anymore. They're there, but they don't have the same type of importance that they did beforehand because their leader is dead.

I don't think we get Kang in Guardians, but I think we get Kang in the Marbles. I think we get Kang in whatever's next. I think Kang is ever. Can was supposed to be rumored to be in Agatha. Oh. And if that's the case. That's interesting. Yeah.

I think Kang's going to be in literally everything but Guardians. Like I feel like that post-credit scene, either in a post-credit scene or in the movie, I think we're going to get, because what they said- I'm in cameos too, meaning something along the lines, even if it's something, if you watch, it's one of my favorite things to do when I watch, um, far from home, right? It's the second one, right? If you go up and a lot of people still don't. All the Jake's?

Which, all the Jake's? Yeah, Jake Gyllenhauls in a ton of scenes in Far From Home. He's in ton of there's in one. He's in four? He's in four? Yeah. That's my point. I only remember me in one.

Like when he like, so when, when they first get there in, like, Italy and whatever, or Venice, wherever they're at. And he's about to meet with Zendaya and she tells him that Tom Holland, she tells Tom Holland that, what's that word that? Black Delilah? No, no, no, no, no, no. There's a word that she learns in, in Italian, whatever, whatever it is that she says, like that you can say.

But in the background, Jill Moll is on the phone. Yeah. And, yeah, and he looks, and he just goes, and he just kind of looks up. And I didn't realize he was in more than one. He doesn't walk by before the fire and water, a hydra man thing. Like, there's a, there's a scene where, like, he's like a tourist. Yeah. Well, anyway, he's, that was, that was, but that's the one, that's the one I'm talking about.

Yeah, the big one. All right. Well, either way, he's in the background at some point. I want to see, even if it's not a big moment, I want to just feel like, you know, you can pick out, like, Kang wasn't in it. It's like, the hell he wasn't. Go back and look at, look at, you know, that movie and that scene, he's in the back drinking a cup of coffee. Yeah, it's just something like a purple shirt. Yeah, just like something like that.

It was a show like how many. That's my point with that first scene is that there's just an infinite amount of them, like everywhere. And he who shall not, he who remain and said, good luck. I'll see you soon. You just do it if you want, but this is a poor choice. And that's why the Ant Man epilogue with Scott was genius, but that was the only time I felt like Kang was as foreboding as the first act. And that was not the way the movie shouldn't have no ramifications. Like the movie shouldn't end with like when we go to Guardians, I get that's removed.

It was an easy, it was an easy win for our heroes. Right. But that's why to me, especially knowing that Hank had been essentially the Obi-Wan in the situation, that is where Hank and Janet should have been the ones that come back, save Scott, you need to be with your daughter, you need to be with our daughter. Janet fucked up. Yeah. The quantum realm.

Her punishment should be and then, but now she has her husband with her. They live in the quantum realm now and they make sure that nothing else. Bad assy can monitor them. And you could have a really cool thing where the title is Ant Man and the Wask Quantumania and it's about Hank and Janet. She's in the suit and then the last shot of Hank, Hank walking out and then you do the credits and you show that Hank and Wasp were represented the original.

And it's hiding all the comic continuity. And they just have one conversation of like Ant Man and the Wasp. Right. Yeah. Because she's in the suit and the flashback with Kang. And he literally is wearing that badass Western outfit walking in front of ants. And that's the first time I've been like, that's Hank Pim in a while.

Because I love him as the crazy scientist mentor, but it didn't feel like the 60s Avengers Hank Pim until this movie. So you do the post credit and you say, Ant Man of the Wasp, and you show them two trapped. Did we like the... So, and then, yeah, I guess we were not talking about the rebels.

That's the problem with the third act. They got less interesting. They did get less interesting because they set them up in the beginning, which yeah, and that was even for the bit, which is funny. Good bit. Yeah, it was a good bit. Yeah, there's a lot of, like, that's sort of... Every time I've had a problem,

with the over humor sometimes minus like Thor, but like in Guardians 2 and in Ant Man 2, I've never had a problem with the jokes. Like a lot of the times, like both the Guardians 2 jokes and the Ant Man 2 jokes were funny. It was just a matter of was it the right time? Yeah. And that hit a couple of times in this movie,

but not as much to make it like an overall thing that I had the biggest concern with. There was just a few times. I was like, the whole thing was funny. You got to laugh and they needed it because Ant Man is the biggest comedy out of all of the MCU. It is the one that you expect. That's why you cast a Paul Rudd in the first place.

But yeah, I don't know. I mean, there's the rebels to me. I didn't necessarily, I don't know, I didn't love the, who was the woman who played the, I don't even remember. Katie O'Brien. She had nothing to do really except like scowl. She had mad.

She was like mad. And then like, you know, for some reason Cassie really looks up to her. Right. And then like, I don't understand why. traditional almost Ray Winstone voice guy for the for the beam guy and then like what was David was that much he was the he was the same he was the holes he was he was he was yeah and I thought it was worked because of the set up with the voice the you know the the use of him was funny yeah I thought she didn't have enough to do neither did William Jackson harper

no he was set up my home he's a telepath and he's got a funny little setup and it was only to pay off one more took I'll never tell 1895 damn yeah like that's he had Harper And everybody was thinking he was going to read Richards or something to. He had, he is another day. He was great. Yeah. Nothing to do. Except set up like the camp, the camp of the, of the rebels really, they, just, it's like

you said, it's the cliche thing at the very end where they go. We need, we need these resistance fighters to show up because here they come. We need help. Well, here's your help. Bro, I don't even like it. I don't, I'm not trying to see another brother die. Have him be like, how do we beat him? Yo, your PIM particles tend to be...

That's it! Let him use his power for some other. That's the drawbridge code. He didn't do anything. Your daughter's disappointed in you. Like, the jokes were funny, but also, like, that's what the character was. And he's bigger than that. I read that this is the first movie, though, that Paul Rudd did not have a writing credit on. Interesting.

Oh, wow. I mean, it was funny still, but it definitely was different. Yeah, but who knows if... Look, a lot of funny people sometimes... times don't write the funny stuff. A lot of times funny people can also write the story stuff too. I wonder, but like I said, I still stand by the fact this was a movie that I enjoyed watching a lot because of the idea of this

science fiction thing. Everything that was said on this panel, I agree with. I think that everything that Coy and Winston both said, I agree with tremendously. I agree with a lot of the criticisms that come with this movie. But there's just sometimes that there are movies that I have that I can go, oh yeah, there's issues there. There's holes in that story that I enjoy watching because the genre that it was in and the genre for me that gets me is science fiction, right?

So, like, when the genre is, like, horror for some people, they're like, you know, it's a horror movie, so I give it a bit of a pass because even though they didn't have this, I like the horror touch on it. Like, people really loved a lot of the Dr. Strange stuff

because it was the one, like, the zombie stuff and everything was very horror elementy for them. So even though they maybe didn't love the movie as much, it had that horror feel. Buddy-com stuff for me. I'll watch anybody else. And that's like,

so Hawkeye for you, right? So, like, for me, like, this was why, I am probably a little bit more forgiving of the movie because it came from like, I just liked playing in a new science fiction realm and I thought they executed that very well. Actually, Falcon, I take it back. Falcon Winter Soldier, I gave more of a pass

because the buddy cop. Because the Hawkeye, I was more judgmental because I'm like, don't almost be Shane Black. Be Shane Black. All right, so that's it, everybody. That's the spoiler, heavy review of Ant Man. Quantumania. What did you guys think of the movie?

Did you like it? Please have a full-on discussion here in the comments and let us know exactly what you think. But before we get gone and want Koi and Winston to tell you where you can find them, Winston, what you got? Yeah, what's up? I'm the Swaggy Blurred. You see it right below my name. Come follow me over on my YouTube channel.

Got some great content over there. And over on TikTok as well, got some fun, like sketches and just little moments and whatnot. So, yeah, that's what's up. You can find me on YouTube at this name, and I'm going to be doing a deep dive into the things I would fix with Ant-Man. And I think that's my big problem is that if fixes are like, so visibly obvious that it hurts my experience more. But I do think the first two acts are worth watching. So hopefully you see it or have because you watch this whole spoiler review.

And TikTok, Twitter, Instagram, all of this name. All right, guys, so that's it. Make sure, once again, comment. If you haven't already, go ahead and show a little class, hit that subscribe button. Help us get the 70,000. We're almost there. Show a little. Doesn't cost you shit to do.

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