The Kristian Harloff Show - Is the MCU in serious trouble right now?

Episode Date: March 3, 2023

Marvel's MCU Phase 4 and into 5 have not been the big universal beloved properties they had in the past with 1-3. Is the run over? Is there a way back? Ant-Man and The Wasp Quantumania box office asks many questions. Should they rethink the strategy? Batman The Brave and The bOld might see former Batman Ben Affleck direct. Good movie? Bad move? And BOOM STUDIOS returns with Buffy and Magic the Gathering. Join Kristian, Winston and Coy on this weeks Big Thing Capes and Cowls! #BecomeMarvel #MCU #phase4 Phase5 #antmanandthewaspquantumania #DCU Become a Patron!: https://www.patreon.com/TheBigThingShow ATHLETIC GREENS: http://www.Athleticgreens.com/bigthing This episode is sponsored by Better Help: http://www.betterhelp.com/bigthing OUR MERCH STORE IS LIVE: https://www.teepublic.com/stores/the-big-thing-kh-channel?ref_id=27393 FOLLOW KRISTIAN + FIND HIM ON CAMEO https://cameo.com/kristianharloff https://twitter.com/kristianharloff https://facebook.com/harloff https://instagram.com/kristianharloff AMAZON WISHLIST: https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/1KPH42T0TP0PG?ref=cm_sw_em_r_un_un_djbxgIW5ZQMMg SCHMOEDOWN ARCHIVE CHANNEL: https://www.youtube.com/c/TheMovieTriviaSchmoedownArchives Ask Kristian questions for next time! https://facebook.com/harloff OTHER GREAT CONTENT: REVIEWS https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLSJdE28YyUT368qY7sfE0nKE4c04CqGvu TV REVIEWS https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLSJdE28YyUT1LU-t2Z9AD5UJDiWW4pS_E STAR WARS SHOW https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLSJdE28YyUT0XmfpbblkF9PY7uO2qhbN6 THE BIG THING PODCAST https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLSJdE28YyUT3KAwbzDsv6mdR-gwUiydQg

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While supplies last. Selection varies by location. Hey everybody, what's going on? Happy Friday. It's capes and cows, man. We're back. We are back, and I'm excited to have you guys back with us. We got some stuff to talk about. We got Batman, not the Batman, but I guess Batman,

Brave in the Bold, or someone's balls fell off. I don't know what it's called anymore. But either way, Ben Affleck apparently is rumored to be directing. And that was the thing that I think a lot of people were talking about in general, that if it was going to happen, I don't know. we didn't really have a chance to talk about the Ant Man box office yet. It still was number one last week, but pretty, I don't know if dismal is the word, but it's fair to say.

People have been talking about the luster kind of being off Marvel. Why is that? I think there'll be a lot of the majority of what we talk about here today is Marvel. Where do they go? Can they pick it back up? Can they get that excitement back? I think that's going to be the majority of it. And the Flash is coming out.

CinemaCon. and it's it was they're going to screen it the three of us might be there we're going to talk about that as well so that's the majority of the stuff we're really going to get into and we're glad that you guys are going to join us if you haven't already hit that button man look at us we're almost there we're close to 68,000 2,000 away to 70 and you guys can show a little class and help us get there Spotify we are on video and people have been checking out people get mad now and then I'll post it. on Spotify right now right away and I love it.

I love seeing those comments like, hey, why is this on Spotify? It gets me excited. I'm not going to lie to you. I'm not being a dick. I'm just saying it reminds me to go, oh, man, I've got to put up on Spotify because people are there Spotify listeners now. I love that. All right, guys, you see Sith Council there. Well, Capes and Cowes has our own stuff. Winston usually wears it every week, which is, I'm not going to give him crap for it this

week. He's not wearing it. Quay never wears it. So that's not true. Corey wears it also. But we do. Coy is showing a little class by you drinking out of the show some class mug. Winston's got the Big Thing mug. So you can get yourself all of that and more. Help out the show and do it. Show just an ounce of class.

And you want to show you more class? Patreon.com slash the Big Thing show. We're moving some stuff over to the website. But the other thing, I've talked to the guys about this. But what you never really see, you don't ever see me and Winston and Coy in the same room with Roxy and Steph and Mike and Brett and Kate. Well, you're going to see all that. It's going to be an exclusive event that we're going to do to kind of launch the announcements of the live tour and everything. It's going to be an exclusive event for when we launched a new website.

So keep an eye up for that. All right. Let's get into it, everybody. Let's talk about the Batman. I can't wait to talk about it. Let's do it. It's capes and cows. Me, Coy, Winston.

Let's do it. What's going on, everybody? Welcome back. Capes and Cows, big thing. Myself. Coy Jandrow. Winston A. Marshall. We are here.

This is us. Not the TV show. Lock this up. Great show. Get out of here, Mama. I ain't talking to you no more. He's one of my Batman's. Justin Hartley. This is us. Oh, yeah? He's got a green arrow look, but I think it'd be a good Batman, too. He's got a regal miss.

No, he's the actor kid in this is us. Justin Hartley? Oh, man's pretty. I know. I know. I'm pretty. Nah, dude. I don't see that. I'm not on board with that one. I'm sorry, Quote. I'm just pretty good. I'll tell you what.

It's not that I don't think he's a good actor. I don't think he's a great actor. He's voiced Batman a couple times. That's the inspiration. He's a little bit. On this show, right here. No, my bathroom. I am vengeance.

I have the night. Get out of there. Why did you say that name? Swear to me. Martha! It's amazing how many times... Sometimes they're big enough. You call Martha.

It's amazing how many times I poop and scream out Martha. It's a uniting force. We're back. everybody. Speaking of Batman, let's just do this. Let's get into it. Let's get right into Batman. It's Raven the Bulls, according to the intro.

Brave and the Bulls. That one's okay. That one's a lot. Is that okay? Brave and the Bulls? Yeah, Brave and the Bulls are. Who knows? If they do, then I don't want to do this show anymore.

What even are we? No, there's a lot of rumors going around, guys. All right, so this thing, when it comes to Batman, Brave in the Bowl, Comic and movie, basically said it's been rumored for a while, and that Affleck was talking to James Gunn. to do something, and now that the slate is out there, that people are saying, brave and the ball as possible,

the former Dark Knight actor could, he was supposed to do the Matt Reeves one that eventually never happened, and Matt Reeves obviously took it over, and then he had his fair share of things he had to deal with personal issues and whatnot, but he seems to be back on track, and now it looks like there's a potential that athlete could be doing this. And James Gunn was called out because there hasn't really been any, movement on it or anything too. And I guess some guy wrote not wanting to run DC and not wanting to

make a Superman film, I guess being a professional liar to which Gunn then said, neither of those were lies. I was offered Superman, but I did squad instead. A few years later, I wanted to tackle Superman. I took it on. I didn't want to be the sole CEO of DC, but when they came and offered it to me and Peter, I said yes, because I could focus more on the creative side. So a lot there that we can kind of dive into. And this is, I guess, not just on the Batman side. side of things, but also on just the DCU side of things? I think that James Gunquo is really interesting to start because it's kind of a testament to like the industry evolves and changes. I think it's really odd that people, I think that's why he deletes his tweets every six months.

Like it's so ridiculous that people will be like, well, you said no once, you should say no forever. You don't want to do this, your professional liar. The Superman thing has been really interesting to me because the timeline. Because we had talked about the idea of Superman already being cast and you guys thought it was crazy. and from what I had heard, the reason I thought that was the case is because the Superman's script was almost done, and then they scrapped it, and it looked like James Gunn brought another take, and they fast tracked it. So the slot was there. So Walter Hamada, not wanting Caval to come back, that's old, that's years old.

So it could have been a thing where he just, like, had a script, it was ready to get in, and then it evolved into the CEO. But if that's the case, that's really interesting. If you're already the writer, you've already got Saffron on, and now you're the CEO, how does that change, your duties how does that change your timing and responsibilities if he ends up directing this how does also change your balance on being on knock you and people going well he's clearly going to give himself the majority of the money toward marketing towards his film you know he's going to push the stuff that he really wants to the other stuff that maybe should get more marketing won't i'm just saying i'm not i'm not telling i'm not telling you know it's going to be said of course and my my it's not to say

that he couldn't manipulate it that way but you do realize there are checks and balances to prevent that he as a co-CEO for that exact reason. 100% of that doesn't change public opinion. No, no, I know. But people are stupid. And we know this. Internet. But I, look, man, I think it just, one,

the original topic as far as Ben Affleck, I would love to see him do it. I understand the idea of like, let him play in the sandbox he plays in, but he's proven that he's a good director. And what has made these films succeed in any form or fashion is when you bring

in talent and let them cook. Like, that's it. Like, I think of the Ryan Coogers, the Rousseau's, like the James Guns. Let them cook in your kitchen. Don't give them a new kitchen. Absolutely. Their own kitchen has started a whole business with your budget. Right.

That's what a lot. That's what Star Wars did. That's what a lot. That's what Marvel's been doing the last couple movies. And it ain't working. Stay inside of your own restaurant. And I think that that's what they're going to do with Affleck. And I think that they bring on someone like Affleck to say,

okay, look, what's your take? This is where we want to go with it. This is the story. Is this story something that you could do? Very similar to what they did with Cougler. With Marvel. And I think that that's because he's wanted to do something and maybe the take that he wanted to do

and other things he wanted to do. I think this is a really smart move for not only guns and Saffirn, but it's a smart move for Affleck because I think that out of all the move, the town is fantastic. Argo is fantastic. Gone baby Gun is my favorite. It's incredible. It's my favorite.

because it's not and I think he's great in the two movies that well the other one lived by night is that what it was called yeah saw once but he wasn't he he he wasn't this when he was going through his stuff yeah and it felt like it those those are he was going through stuff I give him a pass on that particular movie because it's it's just it's it's not a bad movie it's just dull it's also just very uh by the numbers and like he doesn't direct by the numbers normally it just it didn't have that affid I didn't have the flare but what I was to say though is that I think that by them doing this and him doing this he can step back and just be a director and direct this movie and direct you know and i think

that if you can get that kind of intensity from the town you put this in the brave and the bolt and do that i think that this could be a really really special movie if and and it also not all them because you know it's still going to be that that mentality of i'm never going to watch this if sniders aren't involved one way or another but there's other people who are going to be like okay i'm going to give it a shot but i'm not going to like it oh wait they got ben afflick all right maybe maybe I'll give it a shot. Because he does crime so well. Like if you look at, like, you know, him growing up in Boston.

He robbed the Dunkin' Donuts last. I mean, there's the guy. He broke in. He started serving coffee. When you look at what his filmography includes, there's a lot of intense crime. There's a lot of really good performances by already great actors. The town, I'm always so impressed by the caliber of work everyone puts in a new film. There's not a single weak link in that film.

So if you've got him doing like a crime drama, like a Batman, and you've got an entire family, if you've got the bat family, I want to see someone that can handle an ensemble. And all of his films have great ensembles. All of his films have. very specific tones except the one we both give him a pass for. But there's a style to Ben Affleck that he doesn't get enough credit for. I think that the town is honestly, and this is going to get a lot of people mad. I consider the town our generations like Godfather Goodfellow's crime drama.

Like, we don't have crime dramas today like that. It's a really good movie, but I would be part of those people like every few of some stuff. In the last 20 years, what other crime dramas are up to that scale? Heat. But heat, but he best from 95. Yeah, that's. I know. What crime dramas?

In the last 10, 15 years are as good as the town. I mean, deception. That's a sci-fi. That is a crime. It's got crime in it. That is, that they're stealing information. The winter soldier has crime in it. You can call most anything, and there's crime.

Ant Man, it's a crime drama. That's a crime comedy. When you think about interstellar, you go, man, that crime. I know, this is. Not interstellar inception. Oh, sorry, still. I'm sure. Yes.

You are having to pull a full ocean. It is a he's a high. It's a high film. But it's a crime in heist are different tones. I know what you're talking about. You're talking about full-on drama. You're talking like mob mentality. Exactly.

And I'm saying the town is between the conversation as far. I think you've got to take it easy with the Godfather and the last of too. But I think that I hear what you're saying. It's a great movie. I'll watch the town before I watch Godfather. Like I'll watch the town five times out of six. Like if you watch it's a good movie, but it's not. I only give you that because of.

You are. I will only give you that because the town isn't like three and a half hours. Oh, the director's cut is, though. It's dope as hell. Well, I haven't seen the director's cut. The director's cut's the godfather. That's what I'm saying. Like the full immersive cut. I just like, like, I love the godfather. It's in my top 10 films of all time. I have to really be in the mood because that's three and a half hours of my life.

But I want a three hours. Point out of all this is that this is a good person to have direct this movie. Yeah. Because I think that it does bring in a little bit more. And what's his face? What's the new Robin's name? Damien. Yeah, Damien Wayne.

So Damien Wayne is going to be a newer character that needs. needs to pop and it's going to be probably a newer actor. And what I always like about, whether it's Andy Circus or whoever's directing, I like when an actor, a good director was an actor who can work with other actors, especially newer actors because it's not just that technical thing. It's like listening and understanding and collaborating

with the actor's performance. And I think you're going to need that because I don't want to, and this will go into our conversation with Marvel. The problem with superhero movies that you're going to lose people with is when it starts to become style over substance. And when it comes to, like, again, and I have no qualms about it. I like, I enjoyed watching Ant Man. I enjoyed what?

Do I think it's a great movie? I don't. Do I think it's a good movie? I don't know. But I think it's, it was, I enjoyed watching it. But I can acknowledge that it's also a pure volume CGI spectacle that lost what Marvel was, it's special and DC cannot afford to do that.

They need to fire into the great characters that they've had in the past and really dive deep into it into the relationship between Damien and Bruce which it should be. And yeah, give me a big, that's what I told you guys with The Batman. I really love that movie.

It's a really good movie. I've watched it again. My biggest gripe with it is the ending because it's not because it's not good. It is, but it's like the whole movie is this David Fincher type movie that I'm so invest. in that the end, like, well, we have to have a Batman type of feel at the end.

And it's the most Batman out of the entire thing. He's fighting all of the... You're saying he was fighting all of the Riddler. It's a big, it's like in Penn Station, or it. It's like, it's that big piece, and it's a necessary piece to have. I get it. But I'm just saying it was the one thing that the spectacle is losing me. What they should have done, honestly, and I think it felt like he was leaning into that

a little bit, but it just didn't connect the dots quite as well. You should have had more of a dark night Batman. So like when he ends up invading the construction site, but while that's, happening, you're still having to kind of deal with, like, the boats deciding where they're going to blow each other up, et cetera, et cetera. Right, right, right, right. Stuff like, exactly. It went a little too.

Batman's going to beat up the bad guys now. And look, and I get it. And it worked for the movie. Yeah. It worked for the movie. I'm just telling you that I think that because there's been so many superhero movies and there's so much in the comic genre. They're enjoying the knots that part of them.

Yeah. Yeah, I get, like my favorite character in Amman was the Dismalchen because it felt outside of, like, the movies. It was fun and weird. It's the character development. And that's why I'm enjoying the TV shows for a lot of these things. TV to me in general, not just for Star Wars and Marvel. TV in general is better than movies for me as far as a storytelling device.

Dude, I just started shrinking and it's like the best stuff. It's really good. Yeah. I watched five in a day. I got obsessed. I'm like two episodes. It's incredible. Oh, I'd love it.

My teacher's in it. So that's why I was, she's the OCD patient. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah. So when she told us, I was like, I guess, oh, this show was amazing. But that's what we're living in is this golden age of TV has continued, but I feel like... So when the Golden Age of TV started with your Sopranos and you're breaking bad, I feel like film was still keeping up.

And I feel like something happened in the last five years that the Golden Age of TV has taken a lot of the talent. And now the movies don't feel the same because we've gotten into the state. They still get the talent, but the problem is that they still get the talent. The problem is they rely because they have to on spectacle in the theater. Because everything's watching TV if you're home. And it's not... Yeah, and because if you're paying money, because what they want to do is they, they, they expect, okay, we're paying $200 million to make a movie, which I think, first of all, stop with these big budgets.

But they go and they make these $200 million movies. And then you go and you're like, okay, well, if they're spending the money to see it, we've got to give them this big, huge spectacle to go. And it's not why everyone is going. And the problem is you can, you only have two hours to tell the story. Right. So you really only have, you got to have like two big, massive set pieces, right? Something that happens right in the middle and something that happens right around the end. And that's going to take in 45 minutes of the movie.

so you really have like an hour and 10 minutes to tell the whole story. Well, and that to me is the problem. If you're going to, one, because now with all the streaming services and they're doing their own movies, so God knows how many different Netflix movies have come out and everything else, you flood at the market. But then what studios need to do, and especially comic book movies,

but what studios need to do is they need to go and they need to look at the films that over the last few years, yes, I know the pandemic screwed a lot of stuff up, but you need to look at the stuff that has been ultra-successful. You need to look at the... June. Yeah. Great example.

You need to look at Spider-Man into the Spider-Verse. You need to look at, there was one other major one, everything everywhere all at once. You need to look at how those are, have your set pieces. But remember this, though, when you, even, June, the example I gave and everything everywhere all at once. They're success, they're successful because of the money that they all, they cost to make. The ratio. No, no. The ratio.

I agree with you. But you're also focusing on character. The last one I was going to give is get out. Like those are the major ones that I think of that like came out of what seems like obscurity, maybe not Dune, but the other three came out of obscurity, did it on shoe string budgets more or less. But they focused so much. On actually telling the story and focusing on those characters that it brought the rest of it out. I honestly think this Oscar season is the counter blockbuster fatigue Oscar season.

Like if you look at the movies that are nominated, there's a lot of stuff. Top Gun being the exception, but Top Gun's a course. great story. But the Oscars, they never get nominated. But I'm just saying, like, the things were drawn to. I've been more captivated by the Oscars this year than I've had in five, because I'm like, oh, counter-programming. Well, I can definitely say it was for my years with, you know, the reviews with Mark and the stuff. I always looked forward to the Oscar movies that came out. I didn't really, to be honest, I don't care about the Oscars themselves, but the movies themselves, because that's where you get the most quality as far as storytelling goes as far as

character building and development and great performances. You get it in that. And what I thought a movie like we just mentioned before, the Inception, what Inception did so well was that it combined all of that stuff in a very thinking blockbuster, which I think changed the game in a bit too. And then that's why I like the first three phases of Marvel. There's a lot of stuff

inside of Marvel that is like, Winter Soldier's a great character building piece and they've lost that. Marvel has lost that completely. It's gone and it can come back, but it's gone. And I think that Spider-Man Noe-Home had it. Yeah, I think now it's the exception not the rule and it used to be the rule.

Look at Shung Chi. I'm sorry. Shung Chi is an example of a movie to me. The stuff I love about Shung Chi is the stuff with him and his dad and his family. The stuff with the dragons and everything else, too, I'm like, I fast, I don't care about it. I'm like, it's boring. First two acts of that film are what Marvel Phase 1 was. And then the third act of that film was what Marvel Phase 4 was.

100%. And that brings the average down for me, right? So I consider the first two acts of Shung Chi like almost four and a half star, like up there. It's great. But because the third act felt like a three star, it drops it to that like B plus. It's forgettable. to me. The third, yeah. And what worries me is that in phase one through three,

the bold swings they were taking, they had the wiggle to. Now expectations are so high for the stuff in the third act. I don't know if they know how to balance the clearly they didn't in phase four, how to balance those scales anymore. Yeah. Because even the two we just mentioned, No Way Home, I think is the one that's done it. But that was like Sony Marvel having to juggle a hundred variables. The only one that I put in that same echelon is Shangchi, and that's two-thirds of it. Yeah. I don't think there's a single phase four film that's up to par.

No, I think what happens so. I think that what makes me nervous when I see, I saw a comment like this today because we just had Katie Sackoff on for Mandalorian, right? And I saw a comment talk because we had mentioned Andor inside of that episode. And I saw somebody write the comment that I see that I just kind of go, where it's like, Andor was boring to me, didn't have enough action. And I'm like, that's what the note is that the studio gets nervous about.

And they see those types of comments and they go, well, if we can't get people to follow along to it, and we just develop on actual storytelling and development, And then people are going to go, it's boring, there's not enough action, and they're not going to buy the ticket, and that's what happens. I can understand that, and I can understand that concern, but then I look back and I look at Game of Thrones and House of the Dragon. Sure, there is action in there, but that is 5% of that show.

Literally, I want to think of, like, the most action that really came out of House of the Dragon was the Dragon in mid-air Dragon fight. That's maybe the most that came out of that. It was amazing. And because of that, though, see, that's the thing. thing. When you lead up to a scene, just like the one you're just mentioning for House of the Dragon, the reason why that particular scene, without spoiling anything, is so impactful is because of all of the development leading up to it. If that just happens in episode one or two, instead, you go,

oh, that was a cool scene, but you don't have, I, it was when I had a reaction to it, that's one of the few ones that, normally when I react to stuff, I'm just, I, I don't overdo it, because I don't, it's not me. I just, I just kind of watch and go, okay, I make a couple cracks. I'm going, no, no, because I was invested. And like the problem, and that's why I always say, like, from people like, oh, don't you think Obi-1 should have been a movie? No, I think you should have better writing. Like, because I still think that you, the investment of it, because you cram everything together in two hours. That's also why I think Uncharted, even though I made a lot of money, terrible, terrible decision to not make that a series.

You could have made a Nathan Drake, especially all the games that you had, you could have made, especially look at what The Last of Us has done. But see, the funny thing is, that's actually the element of where I think they need to stop attempting to make video game movies. That's right. It's serialized like comic books. Comic books, they've made it work because they've made it the event thing. Exactly. And unless you're going to go straight Harry Potter with it, because it's the same thing where you just had, even that had to strip its content. Yeah, but at least made eight movies.

No, no. Right. But again, off of eight books, but then you even had to strip that down. 100%. It's the same thing with video games. What people don't realize is, video games tend to take somewhere between 40 to 80 hours to complete. That's a lot of content to try and smush into a two hour.

Again, that last of us is working. But I also think a thing we haven't brought up is the movies you gave examples of, and the movies, I think, including Winter Soldier that work in Marvel, are the action is storytelling. And I feel like that's what we've lost. It's like, now we have storytelling cut to the action. When you have storytelling, like, look at everything everywhere. That is a great example of, oh, my God, how did they make this insane cacophony of sight and sound storytelling? Look at the Matrix.

That's right. the best example. And it's the same example with everything everywhere. It's like because you're invested in it because you set her up and where she is in her life and how she feels kind of insignificant and all these things that are happening to her with her family and the relationship with her dad and her husband and her daughter and all of that. And then you combine it into this crazy spectacle and it has impact because you care about the characters. And then she's like, make butt plug jokes because they're right there. You're 100% right. You have to tell the same time. You don't get away. But you're, well, I was going to say you even brought up the winter soldier and

I think you want to talk about again, the act. action set piece is just further developing the character. I think specifically about like Bucky and the Knife Drop situation. That was a moment that when it happened, you would, oh, wait a, oh my God. Like, the action is, the action in action movies is very similar. I remember, I remember my college professor telling me this. The action and action movies or the action in plays is very similar to songs and musicals. The song is not why you're there.

It's what people remember when they walk out of it But the song is supposed to be an extension of I can't express my feelings anymore So I have to sing it Right yeah same thing needs to be true about action The action shouldn't just be there for action sake It should be like we can't settle this with words anymore So I gotta go with your face And there's a reason is like look at the raid right like the raid is a movie where like even every single action piece

Even though it's like this extraordinary crazy choreography There's emotion behind it there's a meaning for it like in this way in the raid too there's that whole prison scene of how he breaks out and the desperation to try to get out and, yes, you can do that and tell us something and what is exactly right. It's like a musical, but like that's the stuff that's been lost. And even like we use the example of the Winter Soldier,

it's because they treated the first three phases of Marvel like a full-on television show. Now, it's funny, that's the criticism it's getting today. It seems like a television show. Yeah, but they're not doing the same thing the way that they did. It doesn't feel like they have a third act mapped. No, because if you look at the example of Captain America.

If Bucky is set up in that first scene and as like the Big Brother type and all this. And then he's finally, they're reunited and then he winds up, you think dying. And you as if you know, if you don't know the comic books, you're going, oh, no, that's a terrible. That's terrible because Sebastian Sand at the time wasn't very known. So like, oh, man, that's emotionally. When he comes back, you're like, oh, my God, it's Bucky. And then when he gets involved with him and starts working with him, like, okay, these are episodes of a television show. That's the difference of what we're talking about where you're not necessarily cramming into two hours.

you're telling a longer story. Now in phase four, it's like, boom, boom, boom, boom, this is happening. Big explosion. What the hell is happening? There's 75 of those guys and there's 37 of those. And what is happening? It's a mess. You know part of the problem, too, is you're dealing, you don't want to, we still want to know

what's happening with these characters we've already met. But part of why phase one worked is this was a brand new story we were walking into. We're getting this weird blend right now of people that we've known for years and where they go next while also getting introduced to the new. folks. If we notice most of the ones that are like new new, like Shang-chi, we're actually sticking to. We're like, oh, I like that.

Miss Marvel, I know you have up and down, but for the most part, people can go, I like that, right? Man, I don't know if it's a number, it's, it's, it's the revisiting into, like, you know, Sam and Bucky where part of it obviously is going to be the writing, but part of it is like, okay, but we were kind of already, and I don't really, this feels like a weird void. Same thing with Ant Man, same thing with Thor. It's like this, but we kind of finished your story, but, like, you know, but,

like this doesn't really feel like a good start. Like we already know a lot about you. I think it's because we can compare it to when it was exceptional. Right. I think the issue with the characters that are legacy characters is we remember when we saw those characters and we felt this impossible drive. And when I don't feel that impossible drive, I'm judging it against it. Whereas a new character I go, I'm interested and I can live at a five.

Whereas if I felt a nine like I did with Winter Soldier and now I'm seeing Sebastian's stand and I don't feel that nine, it's like being in a bad relationship. It's also like I lost the love. Like it's also I'm a 96. I'm watching the 9th. 96 Yankees and they win it and then they win it again in 98, then they win it again in 99, then they win it again in 2000, and then they lose a couple tough ones. And then the team, I still love the team, but I'm like, they're not playing like they should be playing. Like you know they could be playing better.

It's the comparison. Yes. So like when the Red Sox, great parallel, when the Red Sox finally won, it was way bigger to me than you having won those series of them because suddenly it was new and different. And that's DC fans. Exactly. They're about to have the James Gunwin. DC fans right now are the Red Sox. from absolutely.

Like 99. Yeah. They're two years out. It's about to be a beautiful thing. Not 99. No, no. It was 2004. I'm just praying.

Well, they finally won in 2004. Yeah, but it's what, four years of the movies come out? Yeah, right. So I'm saying once they're going to swing. I'm just praying so hard that Marvel doesn't become the Dallas Cowboys. They're becoming them right now. They're on their, they're on a path where they still got the fight.

They're in the Tony Rombo years right now. Well, because they just fumbled up right on right on, right on the end zone. They just entered the. Tony Romo years where there's a lot of promise. Where there's a lot of promise. There is so much talent in what is happening because you just got your Jonathan Majors as Kang. And you're like, but that's the problem is this could be huge. I've never seen them squander talent like majors. Ever. Well, they haven't squander them yet. That's what worries me is an entire film didn't use majors in a way that worked too set. Yeah, but I'm going to throw the flip side.

And again, making my point with television, he was phenomenal in Loki. But that's the concern is we've seen how good he can be. So it's the Yankees thing. And now we got a win that doesn't feel like a win because we finally met the guy that we've been like, he will get scared. So I'll tell you what concerned me the most was when I sat here and I talked to Katie O'Brien from Ant Man. And I was listening to her and even before I interviewed her, Perry was talking to her.

Perry had her on for like 40 minutes for talking to her about. You can see both of those interviews, one of mine and one on Collider. And from, they were changing up pages like the day before. beforehand and like she had and like she was she came in at one point she was like she they her fight scene was unsupposed to happen at one point then she walked in like oh yeah your fight scene happens today and they were changing pages and changing scripts and at one point they were wondering if they they were going to tie up that whole because she met her character who mentions Michelle Pfeiffer and and Janet had Janet had this whole thing and they both Michelle Pfeiffer and her

were like are we going to tie this up and we don't have the time and it's like why didn't they have the time because of the freaking spectacle because they needed to bring in 75 extras and He needed to bring all these people in it to have this big fight and they had to use the CGI to blow up, you know, Ant Man at that side and they lost, they lost the magic of it. We've already talked about this. And I think truthfully, the real enemy of the MCU here is that they have fallen into the DCU trap of here.

Again, here is our slate for the next five years. I don't know that's the biggest problem. I think they're pivoting, though. And I think that's what D.C. didn't do. I like that Kevin Feigy came out and was like, hey, we've been listening to the fans. We see the problems. We're going to move this here.

We're going to move this here. We're going to only have two this year. And I don't think DC ever did that to scale. Listen, before we move on, I do want to keep, we can continue this conversation, too, because it's pretty fascinating. I like the idea that we can keep moving into the blending of both the Marvel cinematic universe where it is and the potential now of the new DCU. But before I do that, I also want to let you guys know about our friends over at BetterHelp. All right, everybody.

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I suggested better help talking to them. And it's been really helpful. So like I said, if you're able to do it, check them out, talk to them. It's always good to talk to somebody. So better help. All right, jumping back into it. Yeah, Winston, you were going to make a point. Yeah.

It's not to say that I'm not excited about other stuff, but part of the issue with putting that slate out there like that, if delays happen. If you need more time, if you look, Blade, for example, this idea of, you promise me I'm getting the Fantastic Four in 2026, if it doesn't happen in 2026 with riot. You have put yourself under the unnecessary gun. When you look at what phase one, two, and three all did,

you may have given some leeway for the next three or four films to be like, hey, so we're doing a Thor 2, and we're doing a Captain America 2, and we got this new thing, Guardian. But that's all we got. We didn't get 20 films, and I think by doing that, you've now put this unnecessary pressure where you've got to turn it, you got to turn it. I think there's the other side of it, too, with a fan entitlement,

and I'm using the word entitlement, is they want and expect the end of the movie to set up the next 10 things, and that is a problem where, If they don't know what those next 10 things are because they haven't announced this late, then they go like, I don't know, it doesn't feel the same. I want all these Easter eggs and connectivity, and how do I make 87 TikToks about it? I wanted to ask you.

So did you see the tweet from Sandberg about Shazam? Yeah. Because I wanted to bring that up today. And then Zach said rolling reboot. So tell them. Yeah, yeah. So essentially, Samberg, who's doing Shazam. Director of Shazam,

essentially somebody was like, well, if this isn't even connected to the DCU, why should I even bother going to see it? And he's like, because it's a movie and we worked hard on it and it's good? Like, what kind of question is that? Didn't they ask them a little different? They said, they asked him if it was going to, if there was going to be a second one. And he said, look, from my understanding, you're right.

He said there's potential, but people have to go. Right. And it was, the conversation went into the fact that we can no longer. And that is definitely a look at where we are as a society. But the fact that we can't look at what is directly in front of us. it's what you were just talking about. We have to already see what does it have to do with the future? What does it have to do with the next movie, the next TV show?

And that's the case in everything in life with social media right now. And I think social media has caused a different, and in fact, this ties into better help. I think that it's a really interesting thing that societally, we've gotten to the point of so much stimuli, that unless we're anticipating something, we're not living in the present even partway. Because like better help and any therapy meditation, things that are centering you, things that are helping you be present, things that bring you back to this or what we need to focus on. Ironically, that Marvel needs meditation.

It needs to find itself again and needs to be present in the movie, not in its next five movies. It needs to be in that movie. So a lot of that, I agree with a lot of that. But the other thing that people don't realize because we're so just accustomed to it at this point is that the idea of a shared universe when Marvel started doing it was something

that people kind of, I mean, Kevin Smith did it with clerks, but it was, you know, smaller and and it was not as, not as detailed, right? Like there was mentions of like Rick Terrace and things of that nature, but it wasn't really a thing that you ever thought you could do because of salaries and all these things that were just, how are they going to make that happen? And they made it happen. So by doing that and allowing and making that happen, what the audience, I think rightfully

so does start to expect things because the difference is because you're used to, you're not wrong in that we expect all this stuff. But the reason why we expect it is because it was set up this way by Marvel in a television, in a television aspect. Yes. Because that's never been done before because the same way that you expect from a TV show, you expect from a TV show when you're like, okay, well, look, you've told me now that this is happening, last of us. We know that we're getting two seasons, right? And then it's like, well, season two is not coming out now. What do you mean?

You told me season two's coming out because there was delays. But yeah, that's what you expect because that's how television works. And that is, unfortunately, the position they put Marvel in. I don't blame the fans for that particularly, but the DCU thing is different in how it's set up, but I don't know, it's tough. There's only one reason I slightly disagree because a good TV show, for example,

yes, I'm aware that you have a 20 episode order for the show. I'm not worried about the next episode until I have fully ingested the one I'm in. Right. That's why I think it's the binge model. The binge model of Netflix that we've talked about being a decent amount is now what the Marvel model is in a different way.

It's people expecting the next thing immediately and therefore not appreciating the thing they are in. And I think that's why I think Guardians is going to be really interesting because I think Guardians is going to be exceptional. I think Guardians is going to really do well. Everyone's going to go like Marvel problem solved. And then all the conversations we're having are, I'm going to be quiet for a minute. And then the Marvel's going to come out.

And the Marvels almost feels like the actual phase five kickoff of stakes because now everyone's in a deficit of expectation. Everyone's worried. And then Guardians is going to be its own separate animals. It's going to break us. And then we've got to come back in November. I hope so And I only say that because

There have been a number of those moments That it felt like that's what would happen With phase four and face five so far And there have been like letdown So I think I speak for all three of us That we really thought that love and thunder Was gonna be one thing

Yeah And then we got in there and it was something completely different And the same thing with multiverse of madness Where it's like Sam Ramey Like I mean there's maybe a little concerns about how he, his style of stuff, but it's Sam effing rainy. And, and again, I, I'm, I'm a fan of Tycho Watiti. I really am.

I think James Gunn cares more about Guardians of the Galaxy than Tyca cares about Thor. Okay. And I, and I think that, um, the emotional level of, uh, in general, what we're going to see in it. Because you saw stuff at Comic Con that I didn't see that apparently was really, really emotional. People would hear enough. That's what I heard. That's what I heard. And I think that this is, Toy Story 3 here?

I know. Oh, dude. Maybe more. Listen, but listen, the thing is that Gunn talks about Gun, Batista, Zoe Seldana, they all talk about this is the last ride, right? And I think that I do think it's going to deliver. And I think you're a thousand percent correct that in the overall, it does not mean, oh, okay, Marvel's all good now. It doesn't mean that because it is about as standalone as it's going to get. I think this is the Guardian sendoff.

I could not agree more. I think that all the spotlight is going to land on the Marvels. And I think it was a brilliant move for them to move it. I think it gives it time to be retooled, and it also gives it time to not live in the Guardian Shadow. We're going to go from May, which is, you know, two months from now, so that's a recovery from Ant Man. It's going to be like, okay, we'll make it good.

And then we've got four months to digest with a show, maybe in between. And then by the time that comes out, they could maybe have every, I think Secret Wars. Invasion. Oh, I was like, wait a second. I'm like, that's two years away. But secret invasion, I think is going to be. It's not the last time anyone's going to make that mistake on this show.

But I think that secret wars. is going to be the cleansing that a lot of people wanted from multiverse. But I think Secret Invasion, if they do it right, is going to be that winter soldier field that's going to make us go like, okay, maybe they've got it back. But it's brilliant timing. Well, I think the secret invasion is going to get that feeling of, oh, okay, Marvel's got their stuff back together when it comes to the TV shows.

Because after She-Hulks is like, come on. And that, what do you do? Like, that's, she-hulk to me is the epitome of phase four. Of the, like, I'm not saying, you enjoyed it, you enjoyed it. Great. it's, you can't deny that it's not, it wasn't that one thing we, you would watch Marvel. It wasn't one division. No.

No. What was the other show that this year, Secret Division and there's two? They were supposed to do. They were supposed to do. They were supposed to do. They were supposed to do. They were supposed to do. Oh, Loki.

Loki. So, but look, okay, so that's my point. Look at the two we're getting. Those are the ones that I think, I mean, Loki season one is my favorite phase four thing next to Spider-Man. I think we're getting the two strongest. And I think they move the ones we heard some issues with Echo. I think what if is like a love it or hate it, it's not.

And Iron Heart got to scale. And Iron Heart. So I think it was smart of them to be like, okay, we see that you see the cracks in the armor, Iron Heart intended. But you move the ones that are maybe like a B and you keep only the A's. I think that Marvel realized after Amman and they needed a year. And the only way they can do that is like, do less. Well, that plays into the conversation again with Ant Man was that we'll go, we'll get into,

we'll get into the box office of Ant Man and the drop because I think this, I think, but I think it, it justifies everything that we've been talking about. But before we do it, you want. You guys want to make sure you have enough energy to keep up with this conversation. Get yourself a little bit of the AG1, man. Athletic Greens. I love Athletic Greens so much. I love them.

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I'm telling you, we've been with them for a long time. I'm so glad they're with us. People ask all the time, how can you help out the show? Get yourself some athletic greens. I've been seeing it. I've been seeing the comments, but I tried it. For the people who just got it recently, let me know how you've been enjoying it.

And for people who've been on the fence about it, edit, try it, let me know. I have not heard complaints from people who have gotten it. I really haven't. I think one person said they had to poop a little bit. And then once they pooped it, they got out and that was, and they were ready to go. Sounds like it was helpful.

Yeah, that was it. Do you remember ice, like Winston, he had to try a second time with it. I changed the game. Cold water. Cold water, cold water, cold water, cold water. Yeah. Do not use warm water.

No. Cold water, it's delicious. It's amazing how good it tastes. It really does. Okay, so the box office on Ant Man. So let's, it lost to cocaine bear one day. People were like, oh, it lost to cocaine bear. No, lost to cocaine bear one day. I mean, that's still a revelatory thing. It's a second weekend Marvel movie losing to a movie called Cocaine Bear. In one day, 100%. You're not wrong. But it didn't lose the weekend. But still, it made 32 million massive drop. And then Cocaine Bear at 23. And now with, with Creed coming out and then John Wick and screen.

Also, nobody's talking about a second weekend Marvel movie. No, it's not. It's only made, it's made, and I should say, it's only made $367 million worldwide. Off of what budget? It's at least $200, and that's not including marketing. So, right, it's... Call it about $455. So it's still in the red.

We're going to get close to a Black Adams situation for this one. You're going to get, you're going to probably, I mean, and considering it's a third movie, this is a major disappointment. A major disappointment. This is up there at the BV. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Like, you know, you've got the two most marketable characters of all time, maybe. Like, I'll even say of all time, like Batman and Superman are maybe the most marketable characters. And you're introducing Warner Woman and you're about to kick off a universe.

And that dropped 67% if memory serves. This was 72. Yeah, it's a part. I was reading the, I was watching the Hollywood Reporter thing on it. But yes, it surpassed BVS for having over 100 million in its opening weekend release for the biggest drop off. It's a massive drop. And I think a lot of that is, you know, and, And it's funny because I think it's a travesty that it was this movie and not Thor Love and Thunder that did this.

Thor Love and Thunder should have been the one that ate it. And even Dr. Strange, I, out of the three of those movies, I like this one the best out of the three of them. I think I do too, actually. I'll tell you why it happened, though. Cumulative. Yeah. Yes. Yes.

It's because people are tired of it. People were like, oh, okay, that wasn't exactly what I thought this multiverse of madness thing would be. But, all right. Oh, that wasn't exactly what I thought Thor was going to be okay. Right. Oh, she's all. And so by the time you got to Ant Man, And all it took is one person to be like, it was, that I'm good.

It's losing its gusto, man. I kept saying phase five was going to turn things around. And I kept saying all through phase four. I'm like, I trust them. It's Marvel. I trust them. I think this was the moment of people who are like me. We're like, I don't know.

Like, maybe I put my faith too much. And at the end of the day, Marvel's still done 80% great. It's still a much stronger than not. Sure. The problem is all the recent stuff. It's hard to remember that feeling of Iron Man 1 at this point. Yeah. Like, it's hard to feel that.

So are we watching a kind of, of like superstar athlete in their decline. Blue out his knee. Like they went, they were in those peaks. They were absolutely crushing. And now you're watching a Kobe, a Jordan, a Drew Breeze where like we used to just synonymous with greatness. And now you're like, it's okay.

I think it's one of two things. I think it's either Brady once he left the Patriots and like, you know, he played and there were some great games and he had some chances or like, which is basically got a chip though. That's the thing. Well, that's what he's saying. That's what I'm saying. Like there'll be moments.

you'll see some great games. And like I think the Guardians will be like some great, like, oh my God, it's Brady's back. Or it's the eye of the hurricane and they had to recalibrate from basically a really rough lockdown. They had to recalibrate from the pandemic. They had to realize what they were again. And then we come back and it's back to be in this world. Yeah. It could be the eye of the hurricane.

I'm hoping. It's the same thing like we talked about. We can bring it back to D.C. now with when it comes to Swamp Thing, the conversation we had a little while ago, right? And it's the first question. And all the questions that people would ask James Gunn if they had him in an interview. The first thing that I would ask him is about Swamp Thing. not because it's my most anticipated

because I think it has the most potential to be like a Blumhouse type movie with a $40 million budget with an opportunity to make a real profit on it instead of throwing that superhero movie budget at it and then you know oh wait a minute it just made $300 million

and it lost money when if you make it at a $40 million and it makes $300 million then it makes a big profit like you look at what Black Adam did you look at what Ant Man did stop with these budgets. And it's also the simply, if you want to simplify,

and I've been talking about this forever with Terminator. If they, if, like, I, if they ever do another Terminator movie, because Terminator right now, it's one of those things. It's like,

it's beaten to death, and nobody wants to see it anymore, right? I still think that if they come back and they did a 1984 version of that movie with, and I don't mean setting it in 1984, I mean, actually like the type of budget and the type of low science fiction horror film,

you can make hand over fist, with the kind of profit that that movie would make and the same thing could be said if you start to switch it up and try it with the Marvel movies. Try it with the DC movies. Try it and see like, okay, let's lower the budgets a little bit.

And I know that stars have big price tags and everything too. Off them some of the budget. I mean, all from some of the points. I mean, that's how Downey made someone money. Exactly. It's like stop with these $200 million. It's one of the reasons why Spielberg pulls Tom Cruise to the side

and says you saved Hollywood's ass. people are he taking shots at Marvel and everything too. He's not. The point is that... That's so funny. I didn't even think of it that way. Yeah, but it's the only thing... When it's the only game in town,

you can't just assume that everyone loves comic movies. We do. We talk about it on the show all the time, but there are people who want to go to the movies, and what Steve Wilberg was telling Tom Cruise's, thank you for getting people who... Besides just comic book movie fans, getting people back into the theater.

That's what saved Hollywood's ass, not just the comic book. Yeah, but you know what's funny about that is who is really to blame. Like, because the more I think about it... It's not careful. No, no, no, no, no, I know. But at a certain point, I got to look at the studio heads

and the fact that they, yes, yes, it was a cash cow. Let's not pretend like it wasn't dominating. But any innovator, any coach, again, if you want to take this to sports, I don't care what kind of game plan you came into. At a certain point, the other team are going to figure it out. It's about adjustments. If you do not make the adjustments to be ready for the next step,

you're screwed. And that's something Kevin Faggie's doing right now. That's why I could be the eye of the hurricane. I think why Iger stepped in. A hundred percent agree. And I think that honestly, them being public about it is why I think it's the eye of the hurricane, not Brady. Because of them going like, hey, the movie's not even out yet. We're going to move the marvels.

We're going to get ahead of this. It didn't feel reactionary. It felt like they were like, we know we're not where we need to be. Let's solve the problem. And that's why I'm worried about the Guardians' conversation. That's why I'm worried about the comfort of how good that movie's going to be throwing things off. But since they moved the Marvels before Guardians, now I'm. I think we're in a better place.

Since they move the shows, all those things. They need to be because the thing is with, if Guardians doesn't deliver, which I think it will. But if it doesn't deliver, and that's just box office wise in general, right? If Guardians doesn't, they're approaching dangerous territory. Because if you look at all the drop-offs, I mean, we were talking about 72% for this, a lot of the biggest drop-offs have been in the phase four films. Right. Like if you look at the way the momentum is going, and it was funny, one of the biggest drop-offs is Spider-Man,

No Way Home, but that just made so much money. So that one always feels like an asterisk. Like when you look at them, though, it's the recent ones, it's also a Sony movie too. It's also a Sony movie. What's the last, you and I were talking about this, what's the last great Marvel MCU movie, endgame? The last great one. That's it. Shang Chi is two-thirds great.

Right. I'm talking of full package. Full package. Not a movie that's like, you know, like for me, Shang-chi had me for the first two. You're not counting Spider-Man. No, because it's a Sony movie. I mean, it's still an MCU movie, but I'm talking about last great Marvel Studios movie. I guess that was the part that I was always confused about.

I thought that that was a Marvel studio. Sony is just like in there helping out. It's a Sony film. It's a Sony movie Marvel. Marvel, well, because of the collaboration, they have the story that combines that fits the MCU, that that was the agreement there. But Sony's making the money.

And the Marvel tag, not in association with because of that story, but it's still a Sony film. That's why when you get the invite to the screenings, it's coming in from Sony. It's not coming in from Disney. But, yeah, I mean, so if the Guardians doesn't deliver, They're in major trouble. Yeah.

But we think it will. If Marvels doesn't deliver, and it's the same type of thing where it's like over CGI and it doesn't land with people, they're going to really have to maybe going back to Winston's point, is they're going to have to revamp the idea of these or all the movies that we have coming out now. It's like maybe you just focus in on Fantastic Four and X-Men now, and that's what you've got to do. I'm sorry that I'm on such a sports trip today,

but it reminds me of when LeBron went to Miami, not four rings, not five rings, not six, not six, not Sam. Focus on this season. Right. Yeah. Focus on right now. Right.

And it's very interesting how even with LeBron, there was a point where he stopped making that grandiose. That feels like a young guy move to be like, I'm a bring every championship ever to this place. Focus on the three movies coming out this year and make that your priority. Focus instead of on eight TV shows, focus on two. Well, and to be fair to them, I think a lot of that had to do with Chepec. I think Chepec. Chepig wanted every month a new show.

And I think I are coming back. I think there's two really, really good things about to happen. One, the next movie after Guardians is Nia Dacosta. And I think that she is a genius of visuals and low budget. Candyman is such. That's a Marvel? Yeah. Candyman shocked me with how much I loved it.

They should have done Kang in a $40 million movie, let Jonathan Majors play in Flex. And I think she will. Like, I think if they'd made a $40 million, if they'd use the budget of Ant Man won. But they're not going to have Jonathan Majors. That's the thing, though. Look at Eternals, man. And we like the. eternals, right?

Love. I think that Chloe Zow was making all these other movies that for like $17. And then they give her, and then they give her like $200 million. And it's like, you know that if you would have given her 40, it would have been a different animal. But it still, she would have done amazing work with it. But she gives you give her $200 million. She goes, she goes, of course.

I'm not even trying to restart beef, but I just see Brett sit over there. Now I'm just thinking about y'all going in a Rob Zombie and what he got a left. We said 40. Brett and I were talking about the other day. We went to that Mandalorian event and we were driving over and we're like, what are Rob zombies there? And I go, I guarantee it because he tweeted out, after we put that video out, and that video did pretty well.

He tweeted out, he goes, who's saying I had a $40 million budget? And we're going through it. And we're not the only ones who are saying it, but I was like, I'm guaranteeing you. That guy's like, he hates us. He hates, I don't blame him, but he hates us. So the other, so one was that, two is bring Rob Zominy the MCU. No, two is, if you look at the directors that DCU is bringing in, Ben Affleck is the rumor, James Mangold seems locked in, James Gunn. Look at those type of directors.

What Marvel hasn't announced is the X-Men directors. What they haven't announced is, so I think the stumble happening right now might be great. Because we're about to go into a new world of Marvel with X-Men and Fantastic Four and those things. it might be good for DC to be gaining power and Marvel to be stumbling when they're about to go into their next. True. Marvel needs, my opinion is this. I think you get to this multiverse thing and all through. Because the multiverse, as much as I love multiverse and everything to, it ain't working. It just not working.

And I think that you basically get to a point, you wrap it up, and then you just focus and you get as simple as possible, and you focus on Fantastic Four and you focus on X-Men, call it a day. I don't disagree with you in the sense that the one thing that, that, that, worked for them. Yes, you had the obscurity of, say, the Guardians, but that's because you, even though they were technically B-listers compared to, say, the X-Man, Fantastic for Spider-Man, Batman, and Superman, and all that, you came in with your quote-unquote A-listers for the MCU of the OG Avengers, so Iron Man, Polk, Captain America, Thor, you don't really kind of have that right now. You do that with the X-Men. They sort of are around.

Yeah, but you do that with the X-Men. Because they're already bankable. You don't have to invent a new Iron Man. Like Iron Man is a C-list character Downey-made great. Wolverine's Wolverine. Like, you know what I mean? Cyclops is the Cyclops and he's ever been done right. But look at what they did, what Fox did poorly. They were trying to do it. They just did it poorly because they didn't really get it. It's like, it's similar

to me in like the way that Kathleen Kennedy looks at Star Wars, the way that the Fox executives kind of looked at at X-Men, is that they would make these movies and then they put Deadpool in the movie, but they taped up his mouth. Like the stuff, stupid things that they go, but hold on, but the stuff that they did inside of that, they were trying to get these movies made and they were trying to do whether it was a gambit

movie they were trying which i think in theory was a good move but i remember gambit was going to be like 210 million dollars it was insane it was insane which is smartly they didn't do that but they tried to do these spin-off movies that's what marvel should do is essentially exactly what they did with the x-men i mean with the Avengers just start to make the standalone movies make it about the x-men get away from all these side character stuff right now because it's not working it's not working, focus on the X-Men, build that out, have the Fantastic Four in there. That's your movies from like 20-25 until like 2030. And the genius of it is X-Factor, X-Force, X-Men.

You can actually do all of these different things like Marvel wants, but it is canon in a way that it will tell a cohesive story as opposed to like, let's try to bring this over here. Like as much I loved their Daredevil She-Hulk episode because that works with those characters. Yeah. But I feel like a lot of other times they have team-ups now. It's because like this actor's popular and this actor's popular.

100%. And that's the first time I felt like Marvel. is is coutailing to pressure not to story. The pressure part of it, you could not be more right about. And I also said, and I brought this up many times over it. What are, you never heard, you never heard Fikey talk about like, this is a so-and-so movie, like the director, this is, this is, no, this is a genre. This is crime.

We brought this person in. I'll never forget, bro. You made a face. Yeah, we were at Love and Thunder. We went to this, love and that they made it, they had, and Kevin Feigy was doing an interview. Yeah. And they asked him it, and it was a right question to ask. They said, oh, every movie that you guys have done, you've done the crime heist movies, you've done the John Hughes type thing, you've done the science fiction opera.

What genre is this movie? It's a Tyca what a Tini movie. Oh, no. Nothing against Tyca. At that point, Christian was like, I think I want to leave me. I don't even see this. I'm good. And I loved Ragnarok.

Yeah. I loved Ragnarok, but that's not, it's not a, it has a Tyca flavor to it. But it's not a Tycho. It's a space fantasy. It is. And what's funny is, if you say a David Fincher movie, that doesn't necessarily mean it's not in a genre, though. No, yeah.

David Fincher almost has taken on his own genre. But Batman works as a David Fincher thing. But it's interesting that when you say Tyca, we both go, I don't know. Well, yeah. And if somebody said, like, look, this. And if he would have said the same type of thing, like, you know, we've got a little bit of a Tarantino vibe to this one.

I'd be like, oh, okay, I get what you're going for here. But it's like, it's different. It's like it's, it's the whole painting. It's like it's you need accent of Taika, not the whole. Or maybe I don't like the genre of what Taika has been for that particular movie. And that's, that was the other thing I was going to say is that I really do like Tyka in the work that he's put out. But I can also see knowing that the stuff that he is most famous for, you have Ragnarok, sure. But like, he didn't write that movie.

He, he, he added stuff to it. What we do in the shadows. Yeah. Jojo Rabbit, which I love Jojo Rabbit. But that is highly satirical. I wouldn't necessarily want Wes Anderson making an X-Men movie, but I love West Anderson movies. Like if you look at Tykes movies that I love, like Boy and Hunt for the Wilder People,

that's because they don't have to tie into this world. Let it be. That's why I'm excited for Rebel Moon, because I would love to see Zach Snyder not have to play with IP. He does his own thing, right? Make a Star Wars. That's Star Warsless. Right. And that's ultimately, I think, the smart move of why he did what he did.

But look, but I'll tell you what, right now, Marvel, they got they have their work cut out for them right DC they're established but they need to kind of have that move you know who's the the new kid on the block and kicking ass boom that's right boom studios and how about that announcement dude okay guys go ahead you tell us first

something is killing the children a book I have talked about since 2018 going into 2019 a book that I've been obsessed with a book that you can go back and watch an episode of comic book shopping me and Damon Lindelof and Damon Lindelof's an actual weekly Wednesday Warrior. The challenge of finding a book that man had read. This was so obscure. The great

Damon Lindelof didn't know it is now getting a Netflix show. A Netflix show from a team that is crushing it, that Christian loves particularly. He's talked about them on this show. And it is going to be, I mean, the book is called Something is killing the children. No, no, no. The name of the show is dark from Netflix.

And they're like, yeah, and 18, 1890, 18, I can't remember. I didn't watch it. So people came out and they were like, why would they work with Netflix again? And I think there's an issue of understanding the industry side, But when you have something and you have a deal with someone, it's good to work with people, you know. So clearly they have faith in this team,

and the show didn't work out in the way they wanted to. So I'm ever more excited because boom is, we talk about all the time, very studio-based. They're called Boom Studios. They seem to be playing in all sorts of mediums. They have, like, long-term goals. They know what the market is. And now they're tapping into the TV market

with an incredible team and an incredible book. And I literally, I was so overjoyed at this announcement. I think this is the perfect blend to take these guys to the next level. Boom is going to be. everywhere. I'm so excited. And that's not even what we're talking about with them. It's not. Did you hear that announcement? Yeah, I didn't hear that. No, no, that's why I wanted you to bring up for sure.

No, that's absolutely right. But how about this? You talk about other stuff that they do. It's amazing. So Buffy. Yeah, out this week. Boom Studios. The brand new story from the universe of Buffy, the last vampire slayer is the post-apocalyptic elseworlds-s setting established in the breakout hit minis series from 2001. And the standalone special,

what's that, 2021, excuse me. The standalone special reunites the creative team on the original book, writer Casey Gilley, and artist Joe Jaro, colorist Joanna La Fuente, and the letterer Ed Dukshire for another thrilling story that puts Buffy, Angel, and Thess

on a collision course with a mysterious new form of vampire. This is so cool that they were able to do Buffy. I absolutely love it. Fans of Buffy are not going to want to miss this. one. Buffy the Last Vampire Slayer Special, number one, it's out now at your local comic book store. And if you're late to the party on The Last Vampire Slaher universe, the original miniseries, is available as a collection now wherever books are sold. Also, out this week from Boom Studios is Magic number 24, the pen ultimate installment in the hit series based on the universe of Magic, the Gathering.

I know that Ellis right now is probably reading it. With just one issue to go before the epic finale of the War of fate and the entire series. Now is the perfect time to catch up on this multiverse of adventure. So, all right, you guys checked it out. Winston, what are your thoughts on some of this stuff? So I didn't even know about the last Slayer universe.

And so now it's similar. Right up your alley. A thousand percent. So now all of a sudden, I want to go run back and try and find what came before it. But we have connections. And no people. I mean, we'll let a brother know.

Because, you know, we broke right now, so I'll take anything for free. But I, I, one, the art is beautiful. It is, that is the one thing I have to give boom credit for across the board. It's not to say that, you know, other comic book studios and stuff like that don't have beautiful artwork consistently with every single title that we've seen, my mind has been blown by how. No filler artists, no people that don't feel like they fit the tone of the book.

No. It is, it, it by itself tells its own story. with the stylings that they're doing with this, but I just love very much in the beginning. You automatically get that Buffy, like, that angsty, in your face, attitude, feel right out of the gate. I am absolutely ecstatic for this. And like I said, I'm going to be looking up the previous stuff,

but even this opening, this opening fight sequence had to be laughing while it was happening. So, yeah. I love, going off your thing with the art, I love that the tones of the books always feel accurate to the world because I don't know magic as well. And I think that the Buffy tone is really hard to wall, because it's youthful but not sophomoric.

It's not immature, but it's fun. It's a really hard line to walk, especially all these years later, and they nail it with this book. And then the magic world, the art and the feel, it feels epic and scope, but I love that Boom chooses to kind of button their arcs.

Like, 25's a good amount to buy. Like, that's a good amount to consume. It doesn't feel overwhelming to dive into. And, like, Berserker's final issue of this arc is out on the 15th,

and I like that it's 12. That's a big trade, or it's two small trades. It's all really attainable for comic fans. People that don't know comics, it's hard to look at Spider-Man 762 and be like, okay. As opposed to like these worlds they make contained. So I just think they know the modern comic fan more than other studios might because there is a different thing because of these movies, because of these shows. You want to get people started in a comic store.

You don't want it to be oppressive. So I love that they are an approachable studio. Well, this is also, I've been getting, like, the second that story broke, they were teaming up with the team from Dark. it was because we were talking about that that that book you've been talking about that book forever forever and but it also is something that we've been talking about is they are making a move because they do so many different genres right they do so many different things they have IPs that you know whether it's buffy magic the gathering um teenage mutant ninja turtles power rangers like the stuff that they have yes but it's the original stuff also and it's other things that they have and playing in the science fiction and the horror and the thrillers this is not the last time we're going to hear you about their stuff. And you, like you said, with berserker and other things, you're going to keep hearing about them because they are doing what we just talked about. And that's hitting from the lower budget side. And not like, not like, you know, $3 million. They're putting money into it, but they don't need to spend $200, $300 million. And I hope that when they have the means that they,

you know, maybe, maybe they do right now. I don't know. But when they do, that they don't. Because it's stuff like this, these are the types of stories that they're making that if they continue to do this and make stuff like this. And, I mean, the magic, the gathering stuff, and putting that in there and taking it. I know that magic and both Buffy have already have stuff that they're working on. But I'm just talking about what Boom does in general. They're doing things the right way, the way the studio does.

And I would say that whether or not they were sponsoring this part of the show or not. It's, again, going back to the conversation I had with you guys the other day about other sponsors, right? We get people involved in this show that we believe in, that we want to, that we would tell you guys about. And that's why we're partnering up with Boom, because look at what they're doing. And I also think that there's nobody that's in the position of, they've learned from so many other comic companies.

And right now is this golden age of comic book adaptation. So in this unique, incredible spot where not only is everyone in-house a giant comic fan and make great comic books, but we're seeing adaptations happen in real time. Something is killing the children's only, I said, what, 2018, 2019, 2019, three, four years old. So the fact that in real time,

Like, that's not how things usually work. So we just talked about Spider-Man, how, like, you were like, is it Marvel or Sony? That is a thing that will never happen for them because they're all in. These are their books. This is their thing they can make. So I just love that we're living in a time to see something happen in real time. Like, Berserker is finishing in two weeks this arc, but the movie's making moves.

We're getting a show. We're getting all these things because they can make this stuff. All right. Listen, man. So we had a pretty, it was funny because we came in, we were like, okay, we have a couple things we want to talk about. But it's really, but it is. But it is really that time to talk about this right now.

And it's a question that goes to you guys. Is Marvel in trouble? Is the MCU in trouble? What do you guys think? Let us know in the comments for sure. Do you think, like Koi said, can they bounce back? Should they focus on Fantastic Four? Should they focus on X-Men?

And then bouncing into the Ben Affleck story as well, too. Do you think that Ben Affix should direct the Brave and the Bold? Is that going to be the movie that he does? And obviously, check out the stuff from Boom Studios. All right, Winston, A. Marshall, where can they find you? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You can find me at the Swaggy Blurton on all the platforms, man. It's Friday today, so that means that episode two of the Bel Air Review should be out. Watch The Throne Podcasts with me myself and Matt Thomas.

Definitely check that. And then go follow me over on TikTok, man. I got some fun content over there right now. You can find me at that name on TikTok, Instagram, YouTube. I'm trying to grow my YouTube, trying to do more out of the theater reviews. I enjoy just like walking out of the theater and talking about movies with you guys. And I'm going to start doing Wu-Tang and American Saga is back. and that is one of my favorite shows on TV that I don't feel like what people are talking about.

Yeah, dude. That's what I'm saying. Nobody's talking about it. It came back. Did you not know it was back or you just can't believe he won't? I didn't know that the core is watching Wu-Tang. Oh, dude, I, Wu-Tang is, Wu-Tang. Dude, what they've accomplished, what they've accomplished that show is literally the Avengers for TV.

If you watch that show, they've got like Method and Rizza and all these different superheroes that team up to make this show. It's perfect. Liquid swords. Stop. black-splaining the Wu-Tang in their Osaka to me, bro. I'm aware. I'm capes and cowl spaining the show to the people. You didn't know liquid swords?

You never heard of look at swords? No, but if you look at our audience, if you look at the capes and cow's audience and you parallel it to the Avengers, then they might watch Wooten an American saga on Hulu, which just came back for season three on February 15. That's a man and Wu-Tang ain't enough to happen. He's so good, dude. Dude, he did that at a Minion's party, and it was all like these seven-year-olds,

and he didn't censor it, and I was like, this is Wutang. It was incredible to see kids being like, yeah. and discover the power of woo. All right, listen. Thank you guys for joining us. Thank you guys for joining us. Make sure, again, comment, subscribe if you haven't done that already. Very, very important to do that.

Please hit that button. We're almost at 70,000. So do it. Spotify, man. Like I said, don't worry. I'm going to put this up on Spotify at the same time. I love people to get upset when you know, posting on Spotify right away.

And that's a good thing. Get yourself one of those shirts, whether it's Sith Council or Capes and Cowls or whatever it might be. Make sure you do that. And then Patreon, man, really help the show out if you join Patreon.com slash the Big Thing Show. We get a lot of benefits over there for you. So check it out, everybody. All right, for myself and Winston and Coy, it's Caps and Cal's, everybody.

We appreciate you. And thank you once again to the great art of Wicked Art. We're out. At Hyundai of Glendale, Lisa New, 2026 Hyundai Tucson SC Frontwheel Drive for 269 a month plus tax for 36 months, with owner's assurance in America's best warranty, 10-year, 100,000 miles. Hyundai of Glendale today or Hyundai ofglendale.net. 36-month lease, 4,499 to its signing. Tax title license and dock fees extra, plus government fees and taxes. 7,500 miles per year, expires 6126. Who available at this payment? PH 71529, PH7159.