The Kristian Harloff Show - Is Thor: Love and Thunder the BEST Thor movie? SPOILERS! - The Big Thing

Episode Date: July 11, 2022

Thor: Love and Thunder is the latest Marvel Studios MCU film and the 4th Thor film starring Chris Hemsworth as the God of Thunder. It also stars Natalie Portman, Tessa Thompson, Christian Bale, Russel Crowe and is directed by Taika Waititi. This is the follow up to Thor Ragnarok and rejoins Thor and Jane in a new twist where Jane is now Lady Thor. Join Kristian Harloff, Winston A Marshall and Coy Jandreau as they discsuss the film and the conversation comes up, is this the BEST Thor movie? What say you? #Thor #Marvel #MCU ATHLETIC GREENS: https://www.athleticgreens.com/BIGTHING RUMPL: https://www.rumpl.com/BIGTHING. FIFTEEN PERCENT OFF! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What's going on, everybody? Welcome back. It's Monday, and it is the spoiler-heavy episode of Thor, Love, and Thunder. It is the brand-new film. And I know I already have my non-spoiler up. I've got my spoiler review up, but we've got to have the spoiler discussion with myself, Coy and Winston. We did the full rewatch of the Thor series.

You can watch that. It's on the channel right now, if you haven't checked it out, leading up to it. And we talked about the, I think, the progression of where these movies have gone, you know, how different Thor 1 is to where Thor 1 is to where Thor right. and I think how dramatically different Thor one is to Thor Love and Thunder. We'll get into all of that and all the conversations. Again, if you've watched my spoiler review, you know my thoughts on it, but I want to have a full-on conversation with both Winston and Coy about it.

And if you're brand new to the channel, subscribe. We are, I'm going to venture and say that we're over 50,000 at this point, which we're pre-tapping this. So at the time that recording it, we haven't been. So maybe we are. Maybe I'm excited. Stranger Things has come out already at this point. I'm talking to you from the future, but I'm in the past.

This is weird. This is like a multiverse. Anyway, subscribe, will you? Help us out. We got a really good show here today. I'm excited about it. I can't wait to talk about it with these guys. So let's get into it.

It's Thor, love and thunder. Move it. What's going on, everybody? Welcome back. Look at. We're back to the wide shot. Look at Kui's shirt. So nice.

People like that wide shot. Yeah, man. I dressed for the wide shot. It's just for the people. I believe it. That's why you went with black, huh? Sliming. I was going to say, because the funny thing is anybody that, like, has met Koi or just seen Koi Stan,

dude is like Thor jacked. But yet, that potato bag? Yet, for some reason. Come on. Your guns look bigger than Thor's. Yeah, I got to wrap it in like, in that other shot. Come on that. But that other shot last week.

Because it surprised me, the wide came out of nowhere. I come in here and I made you a fat came. You had to put your corset on today. Yeah. It's hilarious. There's a lot of people who've seen the wrath of Koi in the comments section. Wait, what? What did that comment for you?

No, no, no, no, no, just, have you, have you, have you, have you stopped it already with the language? He, he, um, if you know, have you not been on this show for the last year? If someone, if someone comments anything on Koi, he goes bananas in the comments, but, but the reason I bring that up is because he tried pulling that this morning on a phone, on a, on a, on a text exchange with us. And, and, and I'm like, so here, here's the deal. And now Koya's, as soon as, has accepted his, uh, his nonsense. And I'm home. So this morning, we had, we had all set up because I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm. At the time of this taping, I'm going, I'm going on vacation.

I've already gone, apparently, but I'm going on vacation. And I needed to get everything done in, we were going to pre-tape both this and Thor Ragnarok. So we had a window. We had, okay, 10 to 12 o'clock. So, Koi texts like, I'm going to be a little late today. And Koi is always late, so everybody knows. But 10 to 12 minutes or whatever he was going to be. And I was like, okay, you know, let's just do Love and Thunder and we'll push Ragnarok.

And so, so J-Lo writes back to me and says, this is what J-L writes. It was hilarious. Do I have your permission to read this? I love the receipts. Okay, which I need to. It was absolutely hilarious. Okay.

He starts talking about S.E.N. Live, which I haven't been on in almost four years. Okay, that's fine. Four years, by the way. I'm not going to let you get away with that. I was exaggerate. So the first thing is, by the way, and I also gave him a little more credit than he deserved because he came in here. He's like, oh, I said seven minutes.

First text, running a little behind, probably closer to 10.25 on my end. That is 25 minutes, Corey, learn math. So, and then he finished, and he followed it up with, maybe I'll get there by 10, 10, 10. Yeah, right. And I said, that's all right.

And very kindly with a big okay. That's okay. Let's just do love and thunder today. And then we can hit Ragged Rock next week. Does that work for everybody? And I sublimately didn't even mean to it, wrote, I work for everybody, which is true. And then,

Coy says, is this live show and Ragnar or just Ragnar at 11? Sorry, switch love and thunder with Rags. So my mother-in-law abbreviating everything. So he said, I should be there in 30 or 90. Perfect. 30 or 90. That is a- No, no, should I be there in 30 or 90?

Because I didn't know if I needed to be there at 10 or 11 now because I saw the live. It makes sense. All right. So kind of. And I said, let's just do love and thunder today because I don't know what the hell he's talking about at this point with the live. So we'll do Ragnar next week. Winston kindly writes back okay.

And that's all we hear from this. But that's because I would tell you right now, I'm sitting here, the Michael Jackson meme. Literally just. Yeah, right. So the saga, it continues. No worry. We will get into Love and Thundry, I promise.

This is, this is, this is as. This is real. Yeah. So again, Koy then writes with this freaking live show thing again. Are we doing live show starting in 20 minutes on YouTube? I just don't want to drive over there if we're W-E-R, not in the. the first show of the day for no reason. I was driving.

And I still, he writes back. Also, I would, this is the here comes the J-Lo part. Also, I wouldn't have stayed up until 3 a.m. watching that perfectly adequate movie had I known,

let a dude know next time. And at first, and I respond, huh? With live show. And then Winston kindly writes back S-E-N to let me know what's going. I'm a man of very few words, you know,

you can, you can respond. You can respond. Nope. That's not us. We're just doing one show today. We're going to do love and thunder. And then I said, well, you know, dude, I had to plan our 10 o'clock to 12 o'clock.

I'm going on vacation. And I'm shooting four shows today, so I got to be on time. Now, and this is where I throw in a little spice. If you can magically get here at 10 a.m., then we can do both shows. Or we can just try to crunch them both in, but I got to figure out all the sponsors and all that. And then, I think, realized he needed a Snickers bar. It writes back and says, I was driving and I saw the Sien and got confused.

I got it, I got it. I could have been there at 10.07, a little disheveled, but I'll be there. Next week it is, see you all at 11. So he pulled himself to get there. Okay, so from my side, from my side, I stay up until 3 a.m. watching a movie that I thought we were covering. And then while driving here, because it's pretty far from me, I see you tweet out as the headline.

I'm like, did you just, am I driving to a thing that I don't even know about? So I'm like a little uppity. So you thought I was just putting you on a live show. Yeah. And like, I felt like, have I ever done that to you? Just put you on a, put you on a, I mean, you. called and not told me I was live, but not physically. I've definitely,

no, you're making things up, I've never done that. But like, well, it was only once and it was before really knew a show. It was back in Clyder Live. I was way back. Well, that's, that's nothing to do with me. So I'm driving, so I'm driving here. And I think that suddenly we're doing a live show. And I also think we've been replaced the live show with not doing the movie I stayed up

till 3 a.m. to do. And I thought I'd communicated. It was only like, kind of be 10 minutes because I decided not to shower and to get here early. So to me, it was like, stayed up late. I'm going to come in to shovel. some live show that you didn't know you're prepared for. Because I like prepping.

Like if you, even if it's the movies, I prep. So I'm just like sitting in traffic raging against the machine. So funny. With SCN Live for sure, getting the publicity right now. Here we are, SCN Live. Check out of SCN Live. Because they did a public show. They did a live show.

And I hope it did well. Again, I know I know in the future. But anyway, um, that's been a morning, you guys. That's how we started. Yep. Happy Monday. We brought the love and thunder. Oh, God.

It was so funny. I was just sitting there. I was just like, okay, eating my food. Cutting people off in traffic. It would be in, I literally angry got coffee. I got here 10-17 because I needed 10 minutes to calm down and get coffee. Like I pulled over with the dunks, tucked myself in.

I'm not a morning person. I was like, what the hell is this guy talking? I love the gift sent, though. Like, there's a quality series of gifts. We sent some good ones. It was good one. It was good one. I am upset that I didn't send my Michael Jackson popcorn one to y'all.

I just. I was laughing my ass all. I really, I like the use of the. This is the one I said. That's when you responded to. Yeah. Yeah, it was really good. I was like, what are you off from me?

So good. All right. listen, let's get into this thing. So this is the fourth movie in the franchise. And so this is, and I've had obviously a lot of time to think about the movie in general. And I did my out of the theater reaction and I said, it's overly jokey for sure. And people are, well, so was Ragnarok. No doubt. It is. I thought there's a better balance of Ragnarok than I did in this movie. But the other thing that I think that it is very similar and hear me up before you. what to Iron Man 3

right and I don't mean the movies themselves on how they fit in tone I mean when people compare and go a lot of times and I've also said this and I stand by this for Iron Man 3 Iron Man 3 is a really great Shane Black movie it's in the overall scheme of an MCU film it doesn't

it's not as great as the other ones right this movie is a great Tycho Watiti film it's funny it is Tyco Watiti humor all over the place but at some points I felt like I was watching hot shots or top secret. It felt like there's that scene with Zeus and stuff. If it was,

they're not even trying to take themselves serious anymore. This movie does not take itself seriously at all. And people might love that. It wore on me a little bit. I mean, for me, um, I remember once I was jacked in pretty clearly because they set the tone very fast. Right away.

Right away. If you, if you look at Ragnarok, you have, uh, what, that opening scene with Sertr, where he's kind of like talking to the skeleton, but also talking to Sertor.

Yeah. But there's still like a serious tone because like Thor's in trouble. Right. Whereas in this case, I appreciate the cold open, so we already know that Gore is not going to be a joke at all. Gore.

Who was great, by the way. He was great. Christian Bell was incredible. But you start off with the Asgardians of the galaxy. Yeah. You know, trying to help this one thing. And Thor's throwing his robe on people.

He's doing the Van Dam like kick on the cars to like hold them off. from each other. And that whole fight scene, whereas in Ragnarok, it was him fighting all the fire demons and all that stuff to try and escape. There's a more serious tone to this. This whole fight is a joke.

It's just a giant joke, which I'm actually good with, to be honest with you, because again, now I already know this is what we're doing. And knowing that I immediately shifted from Ragnarok, which is funny, but a little bit serious, to this is going to be a full, rush hour type action comedy heavy on the comedy and then when the action needs to be serious we'll get there sure which we cover with jane's cancer which we cover with gore's realization of you know his

child and all that even the fact that like his big horror element with the kids was kind of funny right me laugh a little bit but it it wasn't because he was funny right it was just because he's inadvertently scaring children right and he's not necessarily comedically like they they knew what they were doing so i i i personally loved it and i understand where people are going to be similar to Christian. There might be more than me. I think more people are going to love this movie than not. Because it's a very funny movie and it's shot really well.

I saw your reaction too. I agree with you. It's gorgeous. Right. It looks really good. It's just I think that and it's weird because people were responding, well, Ragnarach was funny and Ty Gusill. You didn't expect it to be comedy.

I did. But I think what Winston said, this is the difference. And I think that he summed it up perfectly. In that opening scene, not the Gore stuff, as it starts as the stuff with the guardians, if you accept right away, oh, that's what this movie's going to be the whole way through. Yeah. And I'm cool with it. I'm here for the ride and let's just have some fun with the whole thing.

But if you were expecting it to balance out and because the stuff with Gore, there are moments. Like, and the stuff with Jane and I thought the Jane and Thor stuff was great. The chemistry is finally watching. Yes, 100%. But I just, and there were moments that I think the second half of the movie plays with more. more serious tones, but you've got to really lock in, because 45 minutes is just comedy. Real quick, quick, because I want to go, I think a better, instead of hot shots, Christian, I think a better metaphor would actually be the Jump Street movies.

I mean, that's in there, too, but that's, I was talking about specifically that scene with Zeus. Like, it's, it's so goofy when he picks up his, he picks up his, you know, his, is, is, his, you know, is, is, is, is, he walks down the thing. That was unnecessary. Nothing was, nothing was, but the rest of it, I didn't have it. But they made, Zeus a goof. I think I land right between you guys. So as we saw with last week's Ragnarok,

I'm not as big of a Ragnarok guy as most. A lot of people have in their top 10. It's about, you know, 17, 8. It's in the middle for me of the whole MCU, which is perfectly fine because to me, the beauty of the MCU is that it's a franchise of 30 plus properties that all average in the A to B range. My lower MCU is still a C.

I think I've got like 2D. So it's an incredible franchise for consistency. My issue is when you look at the overall MCU, the strength that limits it is that it all feels like it could exist together. That's what I think DC does really well as they've accepted, hey, we're going to make Joker and the Batman and the Aquaman and like very consciously separate. My issue is the MCU was built as a structured thing that feels like the oneness that it is.

And I love that directors are getting to make their independent styles and independent things. But to me, this and Ragnarok don't feel like part of the MCU without the glue that is Infinity War and Endgame. And Infinity War and Endgame managed to make Thor both funny and, like, has pathos. And I thought Ragnarok tasted that. This didn't even try. You know what it is.

Like there's nothing. You know, it's interesting is you go back and you go back in time and you look at something like Ant Man when Agarite was supposed to be on. I know the MCU was very, very different. It was just not even a thing when he first signed on. But the reason why he ultimately left is because they had this kind of plan where they wanted him to not do an Edgar Wright movie per se.

They didn't want him to lose his style, but they wanted him to do. an MCU movie directed by Edgar Wright. Right. The last two movies have been a Sam Ramey movie. And a Tyco Waititi movie. And I think that's a strength. I just think that we need to adjust to expectations, and I haven't done that yet.

But it's hard to do after with 30. How many movies? That's what I'm saying. It's the ratio. Yeah, just how many movies have been set? I'll feel like. The only thing I would say, because it's not that these two aren't the only one.

I would say the first real taste of that was Eternals. If you think about it. Yeah, it's very much closer. Because Black Widow Shing Chi and. Spider-Man were all very within the ilk of whatnot, but you were starting to get to that there. I don't know, the Winston. I don't know. The difference though with that, though, is that she, her style was there for sure. She used her style. But it didn't feel like an overpowered, like Chloe movie. It just felt like... It did to me. It did to me. It did to me. I like this more than Chloe movies, personally. I didn't, I didn't love Nomadlandland, because it felt like it was like an exploitation of... Right. You were saying internals. I like to turn it. I did love Nomadland. I know what you mean. But I just think that with the writing and I think the writing, I think the writing, still felt like a Marvel movie inside of that, like, I'm just saying that when you watch this movie,

and again, I'm realizing there's going to be a lot of people that are going to, the same way like Guardians too. Like Guardians too for me, it just felt like it took away from the development, because people bring up like the Big Thor in end game, right? He's funny, he is,

but there's so much other stuff going on in that movie. And I think what I, and at the end of the day, this is also in the middle of Marvel for me. So then to the end of the day, this is still like the A minus B plus range. I still really enjoyed my time in it. So that's the negative.

I always try to front load negative, land positive. In that I really had a good time, but I think I need to adjust expectations more than I was able to. I did enjoy this one more than Ragnarok personally, because I went in going like I've had Ragnarok in my life. I know what I'm adjusting for. So I'm able to go like, this is a post-Ragnarok Thor versus a post-Dark Thor.

I think the other thing to keep in mind, and it's one of the things for all the people that are like, well, you don't know what they're doing, me, me, me. I think the one thing that a lot of us keep for, getting and I understand that there's like 11 years of precedent now, we've hit the reset button. Right. So to that degree, we are resetting expectations of what things are. Thor is the one that it's hard to reset.

I know that and it's the same with Dr. Strange technically, but both of them kind of got hard resets. Because if you think about how that's going, if you think of it in those terms where like the same way Thor has been around in the comics forever, but this writer's run is over. And now we're starting a whole new drink. I get it. That's literally what I'm saying is going to be the thing I, I coy, need to experience to make this. You know, I think I'll always hold the first three phases in a separate regard of phase four.

And I like phase four. I just need to click into it's going to be directors movies, which is a straight. But why fix it? It's not broken. I think that it would have gotten stale. I think, you know, inevitably you want directors to have that art. I know, but they still, you still, I mean, the Russo brothers still use their style and make some great movies. going like Russo Brothers are hacks.

Like it's already a thing. Like you can, what? Oh, dude, the internet's turned on the Russo brothers like already. For one. Because it's four years ago and that's old for 16 years. Well, either way. It's young people going and that look at the market. But a young person that that generation is still like,

give me more Sam Ramey. Sam Ramey's like a 60 year old. But they don't know them. So they're seeing something shiny and new. I don't know. I'm just saying Twitter discourse on film is saying. But this movie, this movie is going to crush. It's going to crush.

And everyone are going to people who love this movie because it is, it's a very funny comedy. Yeah. And I just think as you said, and I think you said it really well, was that it's just, I am used to a lot of the dramatic moments that play into the comedy. And for people who, this guy doesn't like humor. I love humor.

And I also understand there's a difference when it comes to Star Wars humor and Marvel humor. I understand the kind of humor that's in Marvel. I get it. Like there's, there will be a joke in the middle of a really serious scene. I get it. But as you mentioned, before, that stuff with Thor in the beginning with the Guardians, like, he's just full on Spacoli now. He's like, there's, like, like, never serious really anymore.

And the scene that bothered me the most, and I said this to you, was Lady Siff, when she, she, we haven't seen her. He was so mad. I was so mad about this. I love Lady Siv. I love her. We're wondering, is she going to be back? Scheduling why she couldn't be back for Ragnar.

So here's his buddy, all of his other pals. And you remember from the first and second movies how, like, he was he he those were those were people yeah and he would like die for them and he was like he was so like locked into those were his soldiers she's dying on the battlefield and he's just like die and you know you got you you know lose your hand and you're probably just going to go off and die now it's like he was just for the joke he said he said he said she was like no I will let me get you to a medic she's like no I will I will die on the battlefield so I can make it to Valhalla he's like well well your arm's gone so your arm will probably make it's probably

right but that's but that's my point that joke very funny yeah Very funny, but it's like at the expense of the scene. And to me, that's my issue. You either not going to have an issue with that or you are, I did. I feel like one of the things I love about Thor is he's always on a walk about. He's always trying to find a sense and self. He's a god trying to figure out what it means to be a god and a man. Like I love that in the character.

I feel like the more we've added to the comedy, the more we've lost that through lines. Right. I'm agreeing with you. I think the reason I'm able to enjoy it is I'm seeing it as like he's lost sense of self. So it's more reckless abandon. but the fact that I have to rationalize isn't a good sign for my experience. The fact that I have to go like,

this is why I can enjoy it means I have to think about why I can't enjoy it. And I think that ultimately that's what I will wind up doing when I rewatch this movie. Yeah. I think I will... I think I'll like it more the second time. I think so too.

My wife and I love... My wife loves the Thor movies. And she liked Ragnarok a lot. And I think that she's gonna get a lot of laughs out of it. Now that I know kind of where it's going and I know even more so as where you accepted it right away. And why I liked it more than Ragnarok,

I had actually. expectations. Right. I'll go back in and now watch it because I thought there's a lot of the positives from the, there's a lot of positives. Goats are great. The goats are the screaming goats. Never got old. Never got old. Somehow. This is the only way that I knew that Christian was a little over how comedic the movie was. Every time the goats screamed, Christian lost it. It's so funny. I love that. I could tell he was getting a little tired because then by the end we were getting to a more serious part of like, okay, it's like the final battle with Gore and the goats are screaming and Christian was quiet. And I was like, oh, he's tired. He's tired. He's kind of, he's tired. It was funny because I, like, the joke came up in the beginning. And I was like, that's going to get old. And then it didn't. And then by the end, I was like, this is where I'm at. Like, I've accepted screaming goats as.

And I like, I like the ghosts. But what I did, the other stuff that I, that drove me nuts was that. And I get that they did all the stuff with the kids. And I get it. But by the end, the kids are running around and they're able to fight gore. And they're doing all these moves. Well, it's very like Shazam toned. I know.

And it's like very, which isn't necessarily Thor. No, that's what I mean. It's like, it wasn't. It was these things, and you could see Tyke in the room going, well, this would be really funny if we did this and that, we can move, and it'll be so much energy. And like I said, this is very similar to a conversation I was having about Star Wars in general,

was that this movie is going to play very well to just general audiences. Right. And I think general audiences going in looking for like just some laughs, a fun time at the movies. Yes, but people who have been paying attention to the, not only the Thor movies, but the MCU in general, I like the balance. Same for me.

I like the balance of, because I understand that you'll get a moment like Last Jedi in Marvel with, hey, your mother's on the phone. But that stuff works in the MCU for me when it's combined with serious tones. It just played like a full comedy for the first 45 minutes. The Jane stuff with the cancer stuff. God, I love the Jane stuff. I'm glad they went down that way.

I think that Natalie Portman, the best in this. I think Tessa Thompson didn't have a lot to do. Well, see, I love Tess in this personally. I thought she was great. When she was on, she was great. She did not use her well enough. She didn't have enough to do. And it's funny you guys say that because I both completely agree

and think she's the MVP of the film for me. Because what she was able to do with the 10 minutes she had, I was like, that's an A. That's everything I want. Which is fine. I think I don't disagree. She was phenomenal. She said nothing to do.

She's King Valky and we don't get to really explore other than she has to shoot commercials and kiss babies. And that's like it's in the trailer. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? And like, I just want the same way that having us just gone back to Ragnarok, there was a lot for her to do in Ragnarok. Well, and apparently they made like a, you know, the assembly cut of this movie is substantial. And then apparently Tike it like finds his movies in the editing room.

They've got a lot of interviews been saying he just shot a ton and then cut it down and made this thing. But I feel like a lot of the things they cut were the dramatic moments. And I feel like we landed yes. Because he made a movie and then we got a comedy. And that's what he said. Not me to say comedy. No, no, no, no. Well, what Winston just said was that she had a lot to do and not as much because the thing is she

had an arc. She had a dramatic arc in, in Ragnarok. There was stuff, and, and I'm very aware that Ragnarok was goofy at points, but like I said, I just think it blended better because there were these moments, even the stuff with, hell of those stuff with Thor, the stuff with, uh, with Odin the beginning and how, like, Thor's never, the only time you really see him start to drop a little bit in that the silliness of Spokoli stuff is the, is when Jane, right? And that, but that takes about 50 minutes to almost an hour and 20 minutes before we get that Thor. I, I think part of what it and again we were just kind of talking about that is that Marvel is loosening the reins a little bit.

So before it was a, I remember when we were in middle school, you know how every boy was trying to just cover yourself an ex-body spray. Yeah. And if your parents were around, they'd be like, one spritz, enough. And that's what you saw out of Ragnarok.

Yeah. Whereas this, it was like, all right, you're good, you're going to whatever. And Tygo was just like, great. And so that's where I'm torn is because I want directors feel able to make the movies they set out to do. And I think that the MCU, you know, sometimes did.

direct from studio. And this is showing they're not the studio directing it. It's the director's directing it. But it's hard. It's hard to bring your 36 installments into one format like we've been saying. This is episodic television at this point. And I don't, and I think that this also proves a point to a lot,

what a lot of people have been saying. What is this, phase four? Yeah. I don't think there's a full grasp on what phase four is yet. I think there is, we're going to find out at Comic Con. And I think there's going to be a big announcement.

And I think there's going to be like, oh, those pieces. And I think what they're doing, which I think is completely fair, because it's what happened in phase. But again, we're, yes, we had the idea we're getting to the Avengers, but do you notice how none of those films actually really fit together until they came together? Well, retroactively, Kevin Feige does even making Thor Dark World Revolent.

Like, what you can do is go, like, that scene is important when it wasn't. Like, you can make it look like it was, which is what Phase 1 did. So I think knowing that we're at the beginning of the storybook again, we are literally allowing us to be in this wide scope so that when it's time, when we get to Young Avengers, Dark Avengers, whatever, then we narrow the few. And we're looking at it,

which we weren't doing in phase one. In phase one, we were like, oh my God, a Thor movie, oh my God, a cat movie, oh my God,

and now we're like, how does this? We're looking for a puzzle that does exist, but we've not been given enough pieces yet, whereas in phase one, we weren't even looking for the puzzle.

But look at it, and you just said this before, Corey, like, how do you, like, because every single movie that played in phase one through three, at least in my opinion, you could say,

all right, well, Ant, man, I could see how that plays an Iron Man and I could feel like the tone's not so far off from that too. Like this phase Love and Thunder and you put it next to the Eternals. Yeah. Or even Dr. Strange. It'll fit next to Spider-Man.

Dr. Strange fits next to Eternals. This fits next to Spider-Man. But this doesn't fit next to Spite. Yeah, it does. Not, maybe not Aunt May dying, but the, oh, you, me, you, you, you're talking to me, Peter. But that's a moment. Yeah, I would say no way. There's a lot of those, though.

But the whole, I'm talking, but there's a lot of dramatic, like serious moments in No Way Home. And it's blended. There's humor. I'd say, I'd say No Way Home is a 70-30 drama and this is 30-70. And that's a hard line to. You know what I mean? If you look, if you look at 50-50. You're saying 70 comedy and in New England. And Love and Thunder, I would say 70 comedy, 30 drama. And you're saying, Spider-Man is the other 70-30. And I would say the best Thor has ever been as an Infinity War because they were able to match Ragnarok Thor with Branagh Thor. Thor. Yeah. I think what they did in Infinity War is, It's a high art.

It's a perfect concoction because him talking to the rocket is both comedically and dramatically overwhelming. Yes. But I don't think we've come back to that level of high blend acting and writing since. Well, look at Thor. But look at Thor in endgame, right? And in the beginning of that movie, you see him as serious Thor who is just so upset that he couldn't stop Thanos, cuts off Thanos head. And that sends him into a dark hole.

And that turns him into the big Thor to where he's like, he's just. that tone that we see Thor when you first see him, that's how he is in this, in, wait, when he's playing the video games, that's how he is for 80% of this movie. And if they'd had that commentary on that, if they had,

like, say big Thor is, I would have loved at least a couple lines of dialogue or a couple moments that implied that he lost the weight, but he's still broken. I would have loved a couple moments of like he might have trained

out of being dude Thor, but now he's caught in candy now. Because he doesn't feel like he's broken, he just feels like he's trying to be funny. I get it. I think part of it, you see flashes of it in this movie actually. Thor does not become serious Thor

unless he's kind of on a bloodlust like quote unquote revengers mentality. Because think about it, the minute Korg gets, we think Korg gets killed, he instantly goes back to that Thor and murders the out of Zeus. Right.

It's not even, obviously Zeus survived. But you know what I'm saying? Yes, yes, but that's my point though. And you're not, you're 100% right. However, the problem is for the previous 10 minutes or whatever long that scene is of the goofy thing and the throwing the clothes off

and joke, joke, joke, joke. That by the time he throws the thing through him, you're like, oh, he just killed Zeus. You're not like, oh. And then, and then by the way, Zeus is alive. The post-credit scene with Hercules coming back was great.

He's here. He's there. He's everywhere. He's very welcome. He's going to. He's Roy. I want both of the same time. That reveal was fun, right?

That was a fun reveal. Great post-credit scene. Because that felt like an old, like an old-school. phase one post credit scene. It was. Oh yeah, but, but, but that whole thing that you just watched was Zeus that moment, Zeus is all right, Zeus. So I feel like phase one and four more similar than people are giving them credit for. And I feel like phase one and four, it phase four to me is phase one, but with more director freedom. And that's why I have hope is I hope that I adjust to that and then I'm able to enjoy it as we go into phase five as it starts to congeal.

So I feel like these are all three act structures. And by the time we get to phase six, it's all going to be one cohesive thing. Here's the other thing I would say, and you brought this up about this not getting stale. Obviously, the people that love the MCU, love the MCU, how many of the critics that are not on board with it are like, they're all the same. We're now getting to a situation where they said, fine, you want something different. We're going to give that to you. And that's why I'm trying to be understanding. And I think that that's the point. Like, if someone, because they do these interviews beforehand when we were there watching them. And I had told Winston, as we're going into it,

I'm like, I said, a little nervous about it. Because I'm wondering if it's going to be like, is this going to be an MCU Thor movie or is this going to be a straight up Tyca movie? And which I like Tyka Watita and I think he's hilarious. I think he's hilarious. But even like the Mandalorian episodes that he did, there's a little bit of that Tyca stuff up top with him. But then it's just like a full like serious like Mandalorian episode with some humor that pops in there. But it's a great episode. And I was like, is that the kind of Thor we're getting? Because I'm on board. Yeah. And then they were interviewing Kevin Feigy. And they said and they asked them this question. They said, what genre is this? Because I'm like, okay, well, we've talked about this. And one of the

things I think that works so well with the MCU is the spy genre, the horror genre. The horror genre. which is a little bit more so, I think, what Dr. Strange was, right? And he says, this isn't anything except the Tycho Wattiti movie. And I went, uh-oh. So you're immediate, but that's going to make so many people happy, which is why it's a buzz phrase. Yeah, and it's not an uh-oh, because I don't like Tyco Watiti. On the contrary, I love Tyco Watiti. I think he's a rock star.

And I said, that's why that's you as well. And that's why I said, that's not trying to play with other things. I'm a little nervous about Star Wars now. I mean, that's fair. That's your, you know. I guess the part that the part that where I pushed back and why I loved it so much, because I've said, I need to see it a second time because I'm just going off of the premiere at this point.

It's broken top 10 for me. Wow. I wouldn't put it, it might be right at 10. You said it in your review, and I was wondering if that was like post-walk hack. It's very possible, but the thing is, as most people know about me, my favorite movie of all time,

I consider Rush Hour 1 and 2-1 film is Rush Hour. Right. And so knowing that, that is literally nothing, but Chris Tucker and Jackie Chan talking trash. That's why I love the, jump series and all that kind of stuff. So for me, I was like, I'm totally happy to buy into that. You know what I mean?

And I think, I guess that's the whole thing is knowing that they're giving that free reign to do that. I was able to jack into the comedy. And I felt personally it was balanced the foundation of it with Jane and with Gore. That actually felt pretty balanced to me because when we got to those moments, they weren't a joke. They got real series. It was literally Jane smashing the same.

sink because she felt herself dying or falling over. That's the stuff I like, by the way, with the stuff where Tesla Thompson, they did use her well with the relationships that she had with the two of them because it was that and the idea of why, because some people are just going to complain to complain like, oh, we don't even a lady Thor. I thought the reason why the way that they actually explained why she was and how she was and sending up. And here's the thing that people are going to either love or combine it because if you don't

accept it the whole way through him continuously having these conversations. conversations with the hammers. The relationship with his weapons. Yeah. So it's both of his exes. I love that like it was a love triangle between hammers. I know like it wasn't between Natalie. I mean,

she was involved. He became the God of Ramers. So I've been saying a lot of my negatives, but like I just looked. It's my number 12 right now. So it's high. But I do feel like my top. Oh, sorry, not 12.

Sorry. 13 or 14. Uh, 4, 8, 12, 13. Sorry, it is my number 16. You put this over Ragner Rock. I put this jest over Ragner Rock. My Ragnarok is 18.

Yeah, this is way. So 4, 8, 12, 16 for me. It's, uh, what's, that's 12 plus 4, 16. So it is, it is right at the middle, smack dab in the middle. But my top 15, there's a big gap. I personally love Iron Man 3 a lot. And this is right below Iron Man 3. Yeah.

I would say Iron Man's an A. This is a B plus, a minus. It's a decent size gap. But I do think going into it a second time, knowing what it is, I don't think it's going to pass Iron Man 3, but I think it might close that gap. So whereas you're thinking like, it's in your top 10, it might drop a little bit. bit. I'm thinking now that I know what this movie is, now that I'm happy that Marvel's

taking bold choices, now that I'm happy to see all these like, you know, broader adventures making the universe bigger, that's all very, very positive. I think I personally need to shake off my expectations of film because that's not fair to the film. Just like with Spider-Man, like Tom Holland, I was like, man, I like him. I like him as an actor. I like these stories. Doesn't it feel like Spider-Man. Then in No Way Home, they gave me a six-episode, a six-movie origin story, and now he feels like Spider-Man. I understand that, but I don't think that's just purely expectations, as opposed to what you've, like, when it's like I look at like Major League, the movie Major League.

When you look at me, or shoot, let's even go even farther back. That's or running the same time, Gremlins. Sure. The first Gremlin's movie is pitched as like a horror film. Yeah. With these crazy kind of gremlins and running around. And there's some deep kind of disturbing moments, especially the scene with Phoebe Kate's talking about our dad as Santa Claus

and how he died and all of a sudden. It's, it's kind of creepy. The second one is a full-on farce comedy spoof. Right. Right. And so there are a lot of people that, like Scott Manson, Bibiani swear by it. I can't stand it because it's not the first movie that I was given. Sure.

And it's like, and I bring up Major League. Major League won, it was a rated R kind of sports comedy for sure, but it's still dealt in the real. Two is a PG-13 kind of spoofy, kind of goofy film. This movie is similar to that to me where it's like, It just each movie goes in tone. And maybe that's what the genre is, by the way. The genre is a full-on comedy.

And it's a full-on comedy. And I think that there's more moments in Guardians, too, that are more serious than Locked in. Oh, I agree. This is the biggest comedy as far as comedy. Yeah. This, to me, again, rings sort of buddy coppish with Jane, but it really is just centered around Thor because even with my reaction,

a lot of the comments, which, I go subscribe to the Swaggy Blurred all over the platforms, baby. We down here killing it. But a lot of people, people were just like straight up like, well, this better not be a situation where it's not about Thor. And I was like, it's about Thor.

You get your way, bros. It's about Thor. It's a thousand percent about Thor, but like I would even say it's less of like a buddy cop. It feels more Beverly Hills cop. It feels like it really centers on Thor and then all the supporting characters get that moment to shine.

And it is funny. And it is action-packed. And Gore is fantastic, which is why I can't give it less than a B-plus personally because it did what it set out to do. my wanting a different character take isn't on the filmmaker. And that's what's hard for me as a, as looking at it judging it. If you look at it as a comedy, does it, if you look at it as a, it succeeds.

It does. If you look at it, the performance as wise, a well shot film, entertaining, absolutely. Right. There's no doubt about it. It's just a matter of, I mean, it's not, but it's not, I don't think it's fair to just say what kind of expectations because it's a matter of like, once again, when you're, you're watching a show that you're, like, if the boys just completely switched shifts. I push back only in the sense that both of you don't watch Atlanta, do you?

No. I do. Okay. So did you see the third season? No, I'm watching it off from the jump again. I want to do it. Right. So that's the one thing that I would say in that in that particular regard. Right. Right. So you get a little bit of that in Atlanta and like the first. They completely switch it. So in the first season, it's pretty consistent with all of it. But then you randomly get an episode where they're like making fun of PET. Ragnarok is a major shift from one and two. But I think that at that, point it needed it because one and two and two was pretty stale in a lot of people's points right like they when you when you saw that movie dark world it's it's regarded as one of

the least most least popular emceu films so the shift was needed yeah i don't think that this dramatic and i do think this is a dramatic shift from from thor rag and rock people aren't going to agree with me on that but i think that as you mentioned with tessa thompson as you mentioned there i think that there's a more of a blend there's a lot of comedy it's 50 50 and this is 70 30 i'd say Ragnarok's 50-50 comedy. I agree. And that's 1% is substantial. And it's substantial. And that's, to me. Sure. And I think there's going to be a lot of people who love this movie.

We think it's hilarious. But if you're looking for a lot of dramatic moments that blend, I think you'll be disappointed. I mean, I would even go so far as to say, Christian, because again, and that's the beauty of us doing the rewatches, I would not say it was a huge jump had I not just rewatch Ragnarok. Having just rewatch Ragnarok, you're exactly right about that 50-50 split. You can feel it because there are a lot a very serious moment. And Dark World was like 90-10, so that was a leap when we went to 50-50. Right. Right. Right. I just think that I was able to appreciate this more because going from 90-10 to 50-50 felt way more jarring than 50-50 to 70-30. But I do think 70-30 is a very difficult line to walk,

which is why it might be a struggle for people. Because I do think 70-30 when it leans 70-percent comedy is going to alienate some people, which I think it might have alienated Christian. Like your experience of it is like, what is this thing? It's, like I said, it's not one of those movies. I don't, like, I will say, People are going to ask me, because I've made it very clear that Guardians 2, I just not a fan of. I don't think, I think this movie I'm going to be able to watch again. Sure. And I'm excited to watch it again. Yeah, I think I am too.

And I think that watching it as a comedy, I'm just going to go, okay, I'm just not going to. It is similar before the internet explodes the way that I feel like when I watch like Rise of Skywalker, right? Because Rise of Skywalker, the way that I, it's just like cotton candy to me. Now, I think that, I think that this movie is better made than that movie. I think this movie is more clever than that movie. I think this movie has a lot more going for it as a straight up comedy. But it's not deep.

And I went and I saw three movies the week that I saw this movie. I saw Black Phone. I saw Elvis and I saw this. So excited for Elvis. I go Elvis, Black Phone and then this. Elvis, you like more than Black Phone? I did. Oh, I'm excited now.

Because I love Black Phone. So do I. So do I. Okay, cool. And I loved Elvis. I just think that, and I was expecting if you were going to to ask me, I'm like, probably Thor is probably going to be the one I love the most. And then probably the other two will blend in there.

But I got more out of that experience for me. And I think that when people are going to the movies, just a movie theater experience, they're going to get a lot out of this movie. I had an interesting moment walking out of this because I enjoyed Doctor Strange. But I didn't feel like it moved the story forward except for Dr. This is a way more fun movie than that. But then I walked out of this and I was like, I certainly had fun. But I didn't feel like I needed to.

one of the things I love about the Marvel movies and it's selfish for my career, but I love that I like to dive deeper into the comics I've already read. I like that I like to get in. When I walked out of both Doctor Strange and Thor, neither of them felt like I had a month worth of work to do. So I would, I would, the two. That's next.

I have the story to tell a story blog, but you don't know what? I might as well, listen to guys, story blocks. Let's go and cut out of story blocks. Here we are. I did, sorry. Keep, hold that point. Hold that point.

Hold that point. For a lot of people, You're talking about making movies. You're talking about making videos. You're talking about all this stuff. You need to help yourself out as a creator, man. And StoryBlocks exist to help you bring all your stories to life. And you don't sacrifice your vision, whether it's time, budget, resources.

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from the show you go to story blocks tell me about it and put it in the comment section i've been screenshot doing a screenshot i send it to the to the podcast reps and they love it they love hearing it they love talking about it and and when you guys do that that helps out this show tremendously so go in the link in the description go to storyblocks dot com slash big thing and help yourself out today all right moving on so Winston yet a point. So the two things that were going through my mind, the first just as far as finding that 70-30 balance

again, I think what served this movie exceptionally well is that the cold open was about gore. And I think the reason why, if you tried to go with Thor blowing up a temple and then come back to this, it's, you can't.

You can't recover from that. And so they did a very smart job of like, damn, like what is this guy? Oh my God. He lost his kid. Oh, these gods are awful. Yeah. You immediately go to that place and you get it. You know what I'm saying.

I'm going to be nervous about that scene, though, about the tone of the movie in general, because bail was so good throughout. He looked creepy, looked terrifying. He was, and I was glad what, he wasn't crack on a lot of jokes. No. And if he was, it was, it was consistent with the character. Yeah, they were uncomfortable jokes. Like, the joke in the cage was like, oh.

That was the only one. Right. And it was also like he would make that joke is dark. Right. It's like his humor, which worked. And I think that that was the difference we did like Guardians 2 were like, anybody shows up and cracks a joke. That wasn't the case for this.

That wasn't my issue. It was the overall tone itself. But the stuff, again, with Gore in the beginning, it's such as this devastating moment where he loses his kid. And he's just broken down. He believes in the gods. And I thought all that was great. And then who was the god that he approaches in the beginning?

The sun god or whatever. Ra was it? I assume it's the sun god? No, because there was an alien planet. Whatever the god was was in charge of like water. harvest or some shit. Whatever it was, the second that that guy popped up on the screen, like that was a director's choice to have him act the way that he was.

And I get that he had hubris and I get that he was arrogant. And that's such up Zeus later. Like Zeus's portrayal is. 100%. But the problem was it felt like he was in a like a goofy comedy in this scene where here's this guy that is just broken, tragically lost, willing to just give himself over to the gods because that's what he's done. And he gives all the sacrifice.

And it starts. I wasn't as locked in because this guy was such a goof. And then when Gore kills him, like, all right, well, that's, that's, this guy's going to be a force to reckon with. And he is. Whenever he shows up, he's a force. And then the sword is so cool the way they've made it really. It's great. It's great.

And that's what I mean. There's a lot of great stuff. And if you, and that's what my overall score was, I still was scored pretty high, 3.4 out of, at a five Schmo's overall for, for what it was as, as a film. I thought it was, you know, it worked. And it's funny that that, that, that guy didn't work for you. It worked perfectly for me because I felt his rage. It was a situation where like

Who's rage? Is the God's rage? Gorge rage. Yeah, me too. I felt that too. But because the God was such an ass. If the God had been even slightly more serious, I'm better than you type stuff and been and been more grounded.

I don't think I would have been as angry. But I didn't need him. I didn't need him to be serious. Like he could have still been arrogant. He could have still been, you know, pompous with a bit of the sarcasm. It just, it was the tone. It felt like it was two different movies. It felt like a goofy comedy character and it felt like.

And whenever it was in Gore's world, I did dig the movie. The black and white sequences. Me too. Yeah, it was crazy. I agree. I agree with that. But I guess, and that's where I think it's just a difference thing of an opinion.

Yeah. A difference thing of opinion. I think for me, the more ridiculous that that God was, not obviously not all gods are that way, like, but you were just showing how much apathy. Yeah. And how infuriating that would be for. You just watch your kid die. Yeah.

And this guy's just a jerk off. I liked that. It just was too much. Yeah. It was just a way that it was directed honestly. It wasn't that it wasn't the scene that bother me. It wasn't the story point to bother me. It was the fact that I felt like that actor was too much.

Was directed in like a 21 Jump Street, whatever it was as opposed to this other character that's going to be super serious. But I think that you're absolutely right. I think that this is going to, and I think we're going to see it in the comments here today. Yeah. I will tell you that I believe that most people are going to. going to be on your side of the fence here. And I think that the second most people are going to be on your side of the fence. I think that there's going to be few people that, and I don't dislike this movie.

I just think it's, I, because it's top 10 for you. It's mid, it's mid, it's mid, it's mid, it's mid, because I'm not a child. High middle for me. And then it's, it's in the lower tier for you. I don't think lower tier yet, because I think that I have to, I'd like to probably go back and see it again. Because it's, I won't say, like, if it wasn't funny, if it wasn't, if it wasn't, wasn't a funny movie, then I'd be like, oh, they tried to be funny and the humor was terrible.

But it was funny. It was funny. And it was really well shot. And it was, and it just were certain choices where people, if you're on board with it and the kids are throwing the stuff at the end, you're like, yeah, me. I was like, oh, this is just, let's put the kids in. What was your second point? You said you had two. I did. I'm laughing because I made a comment before we started taping because when we were at the premiere, we were in the area where a lot of the fans, who were cosplaying were there. So this isn't my point just as a side. I'm laughing because the people that were,

the people that were hardcore cheering when the kids were going. And I love the kids going. We're the fans that were cosplaying. So I remember at one point, like something happened where it was, it was something we knew. It was like Jane grabbed Muley up for the first time.

They're like, whew! And I'm like, can y'all shut up? She's trying to say something. And I felt myself go full old man But they again started cheering during the kids And I knew at that point The Christian was like, okay, this movie was fine But I'm not for me at this moment

Yeah, but that's but that and that But those people that you're talking about Are gonna love this movie? I agree. And so your second point. So my second point and I think that's even part of what you saw With that scene with the kids If you want to talk about Faggie tipping his hand

Remember this is all pushing towards the Young Avengers Right. The fact that we're dealing with Wanda's kids is Marlis Bradley, Miss Marvel, Heimdell's kid, Gore's kid. And now it's turn it. What, America Chavez. It's true. That's true.

That's true. Are setting up the future generation. So that's why you kind of need to do that. And I get it. And look, it didn't come out of nowhere because they set these kids up from the moment that Thor even has that conversation with a kid. And I actually thought that moment was funny again to where Thor comes in. He's trying to have a conversation with me. He gives terrible advice.

And the kid goes, just get out of here. Just leave, dude. And, and, but that's, but that's what, and it's, and I'm, that's my point, I think, with the movie in general. It's a very funny moment, but it's like, Thor's not really likable in this movie. He's likable because he's Chris Hemsworth. He's likable because he's funny. Yeah.

He's likable because he's got charisma, but he's not a likable character. Well, it never has been. I don't know about that. Like, he's, he's, he's likable after about 50 minutes after, you know, when he, when he finally locks into Natalie Portman. What's going on? What are you looking at? I'm trying to figure out there's a character that that little girl is. That's a combination of two characters.

And I think she's going to be, yeah, she's in the comic. She's in the Ultimates, which is Ultimates volume three, which is the third iteration of the Avengers in the ultimate line. And she's like a combination of two characters. And I think she is going to be a young Avenger, but she's from a completely different realm than the other young Avengers. So I was surprised they included her. So here's a question then.

Is this, and it's probably what I'll wind up. this episode, is this the best Thor movie thus far? Matter of opinion. For you? For me, yes. Yes, it is your favorite. Wow, I hate to say this, but it is and that does kind of cement. You think it's your favorite?

You think it's your favorite Thor? I mean, he liked it more than Ragnarok. Yeah, and I liked Ragnarck more than the first two. Yeah, but what my moment of realization was, it is, but that kind of cements the Thor corner as my least favorite of the serialized movies. You don't think that they've done Thor and you growing up as a kid the way that you saw Thor, you don't think it's been brought to the street. I think infinity war is exactly Thor.

And I think we saw Infinity War Thor. So I've seen that it is possible and that makes it harder to know I can't have it. But I think the balance of comedy and drama is possible. I haven't seen it. But I think part of that is what you're actually seeing and this is no knock on any of the directors that have helmed Thor movies. That's the Rousseau's. And they've been playing catch up.

Right. The other directors are trying to piece together the puzzle. Because the other thing you have to remember, too, as we've seen with Infinity War and Endgame, and they talk about this in a lot of behind the scenes, there was essentially like a roundtable of the directors. Rousseau's at the head of it in charge for those two films, but those directors coming in to direct the scenes

that had dealt with their character. So it was clear you got input from Taika, you got input from James, but it's still the Rousseau's that are running the show. And it's in a team setting, which is a different animal altogether as far as balancing tone. He can be the guy that talks to Rocket about both. He can do those things.

Do you know what's really funny is the fact that the guardians for their momentary appearance honestly weren't really the guardians. They were so serious because the balance. And Starlord was like supportive. They didn't really do that balance. That was a completely different tone. And what did I tell you though? Because we were talking about it.

How long they'd be in it? I said, dude, they're going to be in the movie in the beginning and you're not going to see them for the rest of the film. I thought they might swoop back in. I thought they might swoop back in. I said maybe at the end they would pop back in. But there's no, but they didn't even need them anymore because it was just to, and the message of what it was, it's like, I just go off do your thing. You've found a family now.

And those moments were funny, but it's like, I just always feel that they, again, it's, as you said before, Winston, it's a difference of opinion. But for me, the comedy, when it's, there's a couple of moments that are really serious and then, boom, you hit them with something big. It just hits more for me. Like, when it's like a joke every two minutes. or every 90 seconds. It's like, here comes the next one. Here comes the next one. I always say the best villains are the ones that you identify with as much as the heroes of the punches land twice.

Like in Daredevil Kingpin, every time Daredevil punches Wilson, you kind of go like, I see where he's coming from. You see where both people are coming from. And I feel the same about comedy. If you're emotionally invested in the comedy, it's funnier. But if you're always laughing, you don't have time to emotionally invest. That's why I say Cotton Candy. Yeah.

And I guess that's where. But it's also a matter of opinion because comedy is subjective. Because the flip side of for me, this, this, in the same. way it felt like Jump Street a little bit. When I look at Gore and what he's dealing with, and then I look at Jane, and that sort of gives me almost like the movie 50-50 vibes. Yeah.

Oh, yeah, I love that. You're dealing with such heavy content of Jane. Like, yeah, my life is over. Right. And this is what she's kind of leaning into. And Gore fully just being like my whole life was taken from me. Right. For me, those moments of reprieve,

those were the, you've been underwater this whole time. You come up for air for half a second. And I think if it was even 60. But you did feel that that happened. See, I, I didn't feel that happened until about 55 minutes into the movie. And I think if it was even 60, 40, because those moments were incredible. If it was just a little bit more drama, I would have been more invested. And then the jokes would have been funnier because most of my personally, most of my favorite comedies, the comedies I rewatch, the comedies I recommend to people are all really dark.

I love imbriuge. I love kiss, kiss bang, bang. I love 50-50. I don't tend to, I like, you know, a nice Apatow joint, but I don't watch it a lot. You know what, like, I think of if you go and you just, you just, you just, you just, you know, you. Endgame, right? Again, like a joke to me that I think works well in a serious situation as when Thanos, was it, Endgame or is Infinity War actually? I think it's Infinity War. It's when, it's Infinity War. It's when it's when it's when it's when, what's that, what's Thanos is a dude who is

general, the skinny dude with the creepy hair? Are you? Not Graves. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, hang on, Christian too much. God. Hold on. Ebony Maw. Okay. So, so, so when he comes out, when he, when he comes out and he's, and he's trying to, when, in New York, when he first and they start fighting him, you know, and Ruffalo won't, can't turn. Right. And they're fighting them, they're battling him, and Wong comes in and saves him. And Stark goes, you got an invite to the wedding. And he goes, and he goes through.

Great joke. And he goes back to the seriousness of the fight. And it gets a big pop on the laugh and then you move on and then you go. And it's like that type of stuff is what I respond to. Sure. It's like when it's like boom, boom, boom, boom, joke. Like, here's the story knocks down this entire tower and the guys, I don't want to talk about it.

Let's not talk about it. I don't want to talk about it. anymore. And then it comes back. It keeps, and it's like, but that's, here's the difference though.

Tycoeatia is a comedic genius. 100%. He's hilarious. I've, I've had conversations with him in person and the man is, is just a natural, but he's just a natural comedic genius. The problem is that when you,

because as you're watching this stuff, it's all funny. But as you said, it's like, it's just, the connection of the 45 minutes into it, when they finally, start diving into that stuff because the makeup on Jane was great when she was as as as when she looked like she was really sick and when you finally start to see Thor's like that thing crack again I was invested in it yeah it just I between the the gore stuff in the very beginning I was invested in the Thubbley store because Bale's such a great actor also but what moments and even the stuff like when when the rock rock creature help me cork cork when cork when cork gets killed we think killed and he's just a

He's like C3PO. He's like, when that happens, it's like that for a split second, I had emotional attachment. It's like, oh, he's okay. He's just, he's just. And the scene of Valkyry talking to him and like her, we finally get confirmation that, you know, that her lesbian lover and like all those relationships that they cut from the first film because Marvel's transitioning. All of that really worked for me.

I think that's, actually, that's what it is epiphany in this moment. The reason Valkyry is my MVP is because she was the 7030 I wanted. It was mostly drama with Valkyrie. And when she was funny, I was emotionally invested because Tessa Thompson brought the drama and the comedy, she didn't have a ton of slapstick to do. Because of her limited screen time, I got the mix I wanted. So I think the reason she's my favorite character is because she was in the movie I was looking

for. And again, that's not on the filmmakers. That's my experience of comedy. And that's why I think I can't rate it lower than a B plus. And that might be why it's my favorite four movie only because I think they succeeded at what they set out to make. And my experience of it is just I need to see it again before I decide.

And I think the other reason that it just works for me, I think part of it, a lot of it relies on Jane. And I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that... Jane was great. Right. I fully agree, obviously. But part of it is A, where I'm at life right now. So, like, this past year of, like, living with Kristen for the first time and all that kind of stuff,

that weird attachment that's going on with them, like, we're nowhere at a spot where people are about to break up. But the situation of, like, they're both working too much. Right. What it means to, like, kind of live together. All that, like, that was resonating, let alone with the fact knowing where this was going with Jane and knowing it seems pretty clear that Natalie was totally clear to sign on, but she wasn't trying to be a part of this for some extended period. They're going to kill Jane by the time this is over.

And they did it in a good, and I think they did it in a good way. And she has still come back as a Valcary. Which is cool. Right. Which is part of what they do in the books. I would correct me. Yeah, she's Alchre.

She literally, well, not just that, but like when she is Lady Thor and she's the Mighty Thor, it's a situation where it's like, the hammer's killing you. Right, right, right. Exactly. And so I. I knew that's where we were going. And I think knowing that roadmap in my head prevented me from getting so lost

in it being super hilarious because I'm like, she's got to die. There's no way where she makes it out of this alive and knowing that this is the last time she has as a hero for the first time to be with the man she loves. All of that, I think I was balanced knowing where we were going to end up. I see you're saying.

That balance of it, that it was that stuff that worked for me. There was 20 more minutes of drama. Maybe another cut of this. is my dream. But you know what, Coyne, maybe just a little earlier.

Yeah. Like if you watch, if you watch it again, and I want to watch it, I'm going to obviously see, watch this movie again, but I, I just felt that once you,

you started with that guardian scene, it just didn't let up and get you emotionally attached to anybody because they were just really, it was like you were in a really funny comedy club for a while. And then by the time you, you meant you start to pepper in the stuff with, with Natalie Portman, that she's sick and that she has to do this.

But it's like, You don't really have those serious moments until you start to get into about 50 minutes into it. And they worked for me. I just felt maybe they could have peppered it in a little bit more the way that they did in Ragnar. I think that's why I say Ragnarok to me is my favorite Thorpe, because it's more balanced like with the stuff with Loki, the moment that they go through when, because here's another thing,

the difference with like when Loki comes in and he's got to have that serious conversation with Dr. Strange. Yeah. And Dr. Strange shows him the portal. But they throw in a great joke, I've been falling for 30 minutes. So whatever it was, boom.

Then you get to that scene where it's just Odin, I feel the difference in this movie as opposed to Ragner Rock. If you had the scene with Odin in this movie, Odin would have been cracking some kind of joke. There would have been in some kind of scene where the comedy would have been a little bit more heavy in the middle of this because Thor didn't have those moments like that scene. Thor was pissed.

He had funny moments in Ragnarok. But in that moment, he stayed in the series as opposed to that Lady Siff scene. I felt like when that Lady Siff's scene would have shown, that's when we could use more drama. Like when he shows up there and just my friend, like he should be the one. You're going to go there.

You're going to do that. And maybe she says, I don't know, I just had this battle and maybe it's only my hand. Then he goes, all right, it's a good point. If it's reversed and she says it.

Yeah. Then maybe he's like, all right, because he's the one that's serious. I think it's hard because the straight man isn't our lead. So like, you know, in comedy,

the balance is really tricky. If your main slapstick figure is your lead. And we've seen him serious. And we've seen him serious. And then everyone else around him is a mix of slapstick and straight man. Right. We just don't have the opportunity to really, like, breathe for a second. That's the, that was, that was, and what's funny to me is, like, I think Tyca, out of the entire MCU, all 35 properties,

I think Tyco is responsible for two of my five favorite villains, uh, with Hella and Gore. Yeah, but see, that's what's funny. I don't like Hella. Oh, really? Rewatching it, there is some of that that I get the idea of, like, my dad fully scorn me type stuff and back to Odin being a bad dad. So there's part of that that I get. Yeah. She feels, when, when, when you're considering that's around the age of Voltcher.

and Kilmonger and Thanos, she was actually very boring. Oh, you know, it's funny, I got rid of Loki in my head because he's pretty much good now. But she'd be six if I count Loki,

because Vulture's my four. I still like Cher's well. The thing that they definitely brought back, and this, I think this is the perfect example of this movie, right? A great scene that's very funny, but also is just there for the comedy. And they did it in Ragnarok,

but the Matt Damon scene. Which didn't land as big this time for me. It didn't be, Because it was like... Because we were already laughing. We were already laughing throughout the movie. And it was already, it was just another comedy scene that played. And this time it was...

Lucartney hit for me, though. But it was... But see, like, that was the thing is that it just... It was one of those things that were again... This is... This scene is only in there to make you laugh. That's... This is where the 21 Jump Street thing comes.

This is a pure 21 Jump Street moment. And the reason they did it is they played off of what they had done in the past. Right. And then they brought in... They brought in Melissa Carthy. They brought in her husband. You know, they brought in... in.

Who's her husband in it? Her husband was at the very end. Is he the very end? The very end. He's the director. Oh, that's great. And so they did that, Ben Falcone.

So they did that. And I was like, okay, that's when I was watching him like, this movie is just a comment. That's actually a really good example of the balance thing. Because like,

it hit in the first movie because we had just had a dramatic scene where we needed a laugh. And this time, we'd already been laughing. So it's not like, so for me, like laughing is a relief,

a release of all this tension. I didn't get tense to laugh. So like, when I watch it, comedy it's because I need the release. If I'm already joyous, then it's like, ah, neutral. Like it feels neutral because you're already in that state of joy. Unless you're going, unless you buy a ticket to a pure comedy. Exactly. But I think that that's where people will have the pushback and saying, but dude, this is a comedy. You knew this was a comedy. Ragnarok was a

comedy. And I think that that's what you and I are saying here is that the balance was just a bit off. But I'm telling you. And I'm very curious to see this in the comment section because I feel like this is going to be one of the most comments. videos that we've done because of this. People yelling at us. Not necessarily. I think it's a conversation of, of, I'm, I'm very, I'm very curious to see if the balance is the thing that people had a concern with.

Yeah. Or if it was, I went straight into this thing as a comedy and said, or if it bothers as much as you, because we are three different tiers. I feel like, I feel like A, B, C is correct. I think I lean a little bit more on your, like your point of view, because I can see myself seeing this again, watching it again. Like, I didn't. I don't want to watch Guardians 2 ever again in my life.

Sure. Like, I don't ever want to watch that movie. Ready for the rewatch for Guardians 3 next year. This one, I do want to watch again. Right. But I want to watch it as, okay, I know, because I know what I'm going into. I know that it's more of a straight up comedy. I know that there's certain moments I'm not really going to love and I'll probably,

there are fast forward moments for me, but there's some stuff that really works. And you might be closer to me on the second viewing because of my experience of Ragnar because of yours. Because your expectation round two might be my expectation around one because of my experience at Ragnarok. Right. So you might enjoy it more. Or maybe.

Round two. Maybe. I think that that's why, that's why I think that this is, and I think that for me, I like the character of Thor. Mm-hmm. And I think that what, and I think that the stuff with Thor and Jane worked the best. This is the most locked into any big budget movie that I've seen Natalie Portman be in thus far.

And I think that, and I think that Tycho Wattiti brought that out of her. And I think gave her a lot to do. She had a lot to do. The character had a lot to do. And I think that was a, that was a makeup and a well. and a well done make up for the, how kind of underused she was in part one and two. And then the last thing I'm going to ask,

because I know we're starting to wrap up, I think part of that, to be honest with you, I think they didn't really get Natalie in here because of being a superhero. I'm sure she was excited about that. I think it is the cancer stuff. Of course.

Yeah, it has layers. You had some layers to it. Yeah. That's what I'm saying. I think that's what Koi and I are saying, is that when the layers, when the layers are there and the layer inside of it, And then a joke hits.

It makes that scene, it elevates that scene more. Because even the stuff, like towards the end, when she sacrifices herself and she's able to kind of give it up, and then we have that scene with, when,

when Gore ultimately says, all right, take care of my daughter and comes in. That's why the second half, and I have mentioned it briefly, I enjoy the second half of this movie a lot. Yeah. I think the second half of this movie really works.

What are you looking at over there? Trying to get the blue girl's name. It's driving me crazy. Who is it? I think it's blue. No. So the girl, the daughter is like an all power.

powerful being, and I'm really, I wanted to have a wrap-up conversation on the post-credit scenes. So the idea for me would be that... There's two scenes, right? There's two scenes. But the final five minutes of this are amongst my favorite five, favorite five minutes of Marvel. So I was trying to find her name because I feel like I'm failing this city. Thor is a dad. Thor is a dad is a beautiful way to show that his walkabout has ended.

But that's, but that's also, I think the cool thing about it is, again, if you think about the setup, I know that this is the moment for, you know, Sam to be cap, but you're kind of also setting up now the parent figures. And that's what's interesting is like she's more powerful than him, which I dig. And also like he's been on a walkabout for four movies. And I did definitely struggle with the arc of Thor

being, I'm always looking to find myself times four arcs. Like I love it in the first movie because it's a man realizing that he's a god, but he also has to be a man. And then in the second movie it's how do you handle that power? And then in the third movie it's him basically realizing gods

aren't necessarily good. And then I'm like, okay, we're in the fourth movie, how many times can this man try to figure out himself? So I love that it lands with I have found myself in being a father. And I love that the ending was the title. I love that it was like love and thunder. That was beautiful. That was great. So the ending for me is probably what elevates this from a B to a B plus. Just those five minutes at the very end. Because it honestly shows why this movie needs to be here. That said, I'm very curious about how that will tie into what Young Avengers will be because she doesn't totally fit with the rest of them at all. We've got all straight level. None of those kids fit with each other. No, you don't because

once you get Wanda's kids, I don't think they are. I thought they were until Dr. Strange. They don't seem real. Yeah, they exist. That's the thing. They exist somewhere. But they didn't have powers in that older. Because which, which multiverse do we bring in? How does that work with continuity? I promise you. I promise you. I will put money on that. That the kids are coming just because of what they

mean to the Young Avengers. Sure. I think storyline would introduce them. If they, you wouldn't introduce them if you're not going to, have that as a payoff because if it would just been them and not Elijah and not America and all these, then I would agree with you. But the fact that you've introduced all these other kids, you were really setting it up for the mentors to try and help these kids kind of be the next stuff. And that's definitely Kate. Yeah, yeah. But that's the thing is you've got the mentor relationship with all these kids. What I'm saying is even the mentor relationship with Wanda's kids, they're humanish, they're enhanced. Yeah. She's a full on cosmic being. So,

I'm really curious how you involve a cosmic being in the tone of the young Avengers. So the last thing I know we're getting high up there on the thing. So what would each of you rank the Thor movies? I guess we're not including Avengers stuff. So if you go all four, the four Thor movies, Christian, where are you at? So I would go three one, four two. Four one, three, two. I would go four three, one, two.

So I think we all agree that Dark World is the lowest. Yeah. Okay. And I think that the gap between four and three is now. not huge. It's not for me. And honestly, the gap between three and one is not as big as others might because I like one quite a bit.

I think three is, to me, three is far superior. So your gap between. Yeah, because I think three is, three is what I, and I think to not really push back, but to make a little bit, I guess counter what you were saying before, the expectations, right? Like, I think that three was what I was expecting for to be. Like that blend, that 50, 50 blend. Like had that been, because when people, because.

I just didn't want to go into little responses on the comments. We're like, well, what did you expect? Ragnarok was the same thing. It's not the same thing. It's different. And Ragnarok, that blend, that blend of drama and comedy with Tika's really funny humor worked a lot for me. And it was, it's amazing how much that shift of the 70-30.

And for me, boy was what I wanted Ragnarok to be. So I think when Ragnarok was funnier than I expected in the way that I didn't feel the depth of it, I think my experience of Ragnarok is you're, experience with Love and Thunder, where the balance wasn't what I wanted. And thus, I was like, and then when everyone loved it, that was really hard. When everyone loved Ragnarok and I was like, I feel like I missed the joke. Like, everyone in the comedy clubs laughing except you were like, am I dumb? Like, I felt like, am I dumb, Ragnar.

Well, that does come, and that comes into an expectation thing for sure and an idea. Absolutely, because of where, when you go into this movie thinking you're going to get the same type of thing that you got from the same director, though. Right. That's the thing. When you, when, I think that's the difference. Taking over from Alan Moore, Game of Thrones guy. Yeah.

Tyco Watiti, then you should absolutely expect it, but I don't think I'm out of, I don't think I'm crazy to expect a similar movie from Ragnarok. Is it Alan Taylor? Alan Taylor. Okay. Sorry. The writer. I was like, wait, is there two Alan Moore's?

No, no, you're right. Not Alan Moore. Alan Taylor's. I'll just save me the comments. Yes. Thank you. But, but yes. So that was, that for me.

And I think a rewatch is, it's been fun. Well, here was the other thing I was trying to remember, though, because Tyca didn't write Ragnarock. At all? I just saw the credits. There's no chance he didn't put a lot of that. I'm sure that he had some influence because of who he is. It's so directly his humor?

Yeah, it was, I mean, look, it says there's what eight writers on here. So, yeah, no, he's not. Eric Pearson, Craig Kyle, Christopher Yost, and then a lot of the story elements and blah, blah, blah with him. So I think he obviously had more of a say in this one, but I think it's a, yeah. So the screenplay and story. Story by was him for this one.

So that's the other part that I think is going on here. He didn't, he did not, right, he obviously influenced Ragner Rock. Whereas this, he had. He actually had full rain. And I guarantee you part of why they did that other than to Ragnarok being so successful, but if he won that Oscar for Joja, they said, dude, go. Dude, listen. Same as Sam Ramey.

Like, he's earned it. I turned to you and I said, Taika Watiti is a rock star. Yes, he is. The dude is a rock star. So, like, when you have him, he's, there are very few people right now, whether it's a Nolan, a Tarantino, Aratu, all these different directors that are there are very few that can carry a movie on their name alone, right?

He can tell. He's there now. He is even more so than those other guys I mentioned, and a Catherine Bigelow, and I think is someone as well. And even now, Greta Gerwig. I agree. I think Barbie is on her name a lot. I mean, obviously the leads are huge,

but I think she got greenlit because of her. But Greta Gerwig also, falls in a Taika situation because they're also major online, I mean, excuse me, in front of the camera stars as well. And, and they're, they're, Tyca is electric on everything that he does. Yeah. And whether it's an interview. He's in like year, also playing. But yeah, but that's what I, that's what I mean. Yeah. Is that so he's able to do this. Plus he's, he's, he's like the rock where he is, there's got to be 40 of them. Right. Because that's how, you can't stop, won't stop. You won't stop working. And he's consistently like always working. Um, so when you have, um, so when you have, he has, he has, he has, he has to, he has. Um,

have a guy like that. And he's like, I want to make the movie I want to make. And you're like, all right, people love what you're doing to do it. Yeah. And I think that that's, as much as I think that I'm going to have an issue, what I did have an issue with the first half of this movie, this movie's going to make a lot of money. And I think that there's going to be, and that's why I'm so pleased,

comment your faces off on this one, because I'm going to read everything. Because I want to, I want to hear all the different opinions. And I want to see where it's sway. So on our next conversation, we can say, look, from what we saw, In those comments, it looked like people, this is my prediction. My prediction is that people are falling. Oh, I think it's going to be everyone's favorite. I think Winston, I think Winston is going to lead the majority of what people are going to.

And it is my favorite. I just think it's my favorite with a B and it's other people's favorite with an A. I'm talking about their experience in general watching this film. I think people are going to just overall, there's not a lot out in the theater right now. There's not a lot of comedies out in the theater right now. I think people are going to absolutely be in Winston's camp and love this movie and love the humor in it. And then I think that there's going to be people like me who were just like, I wanted to see a more serious thing.

And then I think the people who are like, I want to see a rewatch. I want to watch it again. But it was a good. And I really hope people don't misinterpret this as that meme going around with Zeus, DC and Zeus Marvel. I do think that the Zeus they did and the gods they did are more akin to what I perceive this story as.

But I do also think that I wanted more drama. You know what God? He hated the dumpling God. Oh, the bow. Yeah. The bow got the fully animated. I hated that. Because that was,

but that was my point. Yeah, it completely out of, it's a, it's a, it's a, that's, that's where it felt like

top secret. Also, there was no gods in there that really, like, I'm still pretty sure that's boss in front of them and they just didn't do

anything with it. Like they didn't set, and then, and not, I could have used the eternal. And it's not like they need to set up everything. You got the celestialials.

Sure. I was so sure that that boss was going to show up. I was sure that, that, uh, God, Conchu was going to show up. And I don't have to have everything lead to the next thing. I don't, but I'm in a scene of gods.

But it would have been interesting to at least see them there. How do you not throw any Moonnight stuff in there? That was weird. So it's more a lack of how it doesn't this connect to things. Because also we have the field of reeds and Valhalla, and they don't really explain the two different perceptions. Like what religion is in this world. They're setting up a new mythology and Miss Marvel with the gin.

They're setting up the field of reads with... This Marvel's crushing it, by the movie. It's really good. But that's what's interesting is like every... It feels like Phase 4 is mythology building. Like phase two was don't trust your government. Phase three is don't trust your heroes. Phase four is let's build mythology's out.

But it doesn't seem like any of them are calling each other. It doesn't feel like there's a team meeting. It's amazing, though, when Marvel is coming out with a bunch of stuff, Star Wars is coming out with a bunch of stuff this year. And my favorite stuff, hands down this year, Top Gun. Yep. Stranger Things and the boys. Hands down.

My favorite stuff are mid-budget, mid-budget. I can't wait for you to get to this season, bro. Dude, I'm so excited. But yeah, like for me, the boys, Top Gun, everything everywhere all at once. The black phone's up there for me. Like, it's been a great year for the mid-budget stuff that I missed. And I don't know if that's because I'm, like, so overwhelmed with all the regular stuff.

Yeah. This is probably, if I think about it, if my top five movies now, if we're halfway through the year, it probably goes everything. Love and Thunder Top Gun. Wow. Batman. I don't even know what. You see the Northman?

I haven't seen the Northman yet. I'm sure that that'll take a spot. I don't even know what my number five would be. Not yet. You told me about that too. There's a lot. There's a lot there, man.

So I just got to see what my number five is because what are the movies? I don't even know this cracks my top 10. This is my number 13 of the year. I got everything everywhere, Top Gun, Batman, Jackass Forever, Black Throne. Jackass Forever was so good. I forgot that was this year.

That unbearable weight of massive talents over this for me. I have that too. Sitting on my shelf. Yeah. The new scream was good too. It wasn't great, but I like. it.

Sonic 2, Northman. Oh, Sonic. Okay. Adam Projects. Lost City. Scream. There's a lot. Chip and Dale.

This is a dope. Anyway, listen. So we had a, it was a good show. We break down our stuff. It was a good show. You understand why now we can do two shows? You know, I should another show.

It's correct it up. We got out of. Guys, I'm going to be 25 minutes late. Let's do another hour. That's turning red. Turning red. It's a good year. All right.

Listen, this is, this was the show. We did a full-on. spoiler-heavy review of Thor, Love and Thunder. As I mentioned to you guys, comment away and let us know what you think. I want to get this conversation going. Please click like, do everything that you have to do. And if you're brand new to the show, once again, please subscribe to the channel. Hit that button, do the like, do the share.

I'm assuming we're over 50 at this point, 50,000 subscribers are trying to build out. Now the goal is to get to 100. And we need your help to do it. And to do it by the end of the year, that might be tough. But hey, anything is possible. Right, Kevin Garnett? All right, here we go. We're out. We'll see you guys next time. Peace out, everybody.