The Kristian Harloff Show - JALEEL WHITE talks Growing up Urkel, Sonic, Skeleton Crew,Adam Sandler and more.

Episode Date: November 26, 2024

Very excited to sit down and talk with Jaleel White. We discuss a lot of different topics. He has a new book out about his experience growing up as the popular TV character Steve Urkel from Family Matters. We talk Skeleton Crew, Sonic and more. Enjoy! #urkel #steveurkel #familymatters #reboots #remakes  VIIA: Try VIIA! https://bit.ly/viiakristianharloff and use code KRISTIAN! MANDO: Control Body Odor ANYWHERE with @shop.mando and get $5 off off your Starter Pack (that's over 40% off) with promo code KRISTIAN at http://www.shopmando.com #mandopod

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It was a slow process throughout that week of them just discovering things that I could do. And then by the time we got in front of a live studio audience, the laughs I had heard all week were just exponentially bigger. And then we had this fraternity in the live audience that was chanting the name Urkel in between the scenes that I wasn't in. So even that's like, you know, in between scenes, I'm peeking in the wings too. Waving to the guys and everything. You like that? I'll be back. I'll be back.

That's hilarious. Because as a kid, all you want is approval. What's going on, everybody? As I mentioned throughout the week, I was very excited for my next guest. Obviously, we all grew up with this guy. You know him from Family Matters. He's got a brand new book. And it is called Growing Upal.

He's in the upcoming new Star Wars show, Skeleton Crew. He's the original voice of Sonic, the Hedgehog. Ladies and gentlemen, Jalil White. What's up, man? How's it going? It is really good to have you on the show, and I wanted, and I said it off air, thank you for really diving deep into your world, your history. And it's not easy to do that to share your life with people in that way in kind of a vulnerable place. Yeah, no, I think it's, it ended up being a book about humility and, you know, going from being humble to being aware.

Yeah. and in doing that you got to start in the mirror you got to be like okay well what was my role in that so it was kind of cool because I called up some of my former cast members especially Darius and Kelly and we had some really good memory laying

conversations we've always kept in touch so even the idea that we don't is completely false we just keep it out of the spotlight but you talked about it in the You said there were times when you had a little bit of breaks and that you even said on the set, you're like, this is silly. Why are we doing this? Oh, yeah.

Well, that's when I talked about my relationship with Kelly. Yeah. I definitely, I talk about my relationship with Kelly very candidly. Okay, so Kelly is Laura to you guys. I will never call her Laura to her face ever. But that's okay. We get it. But I just had, I have such a deep admiration for her that's very personal.

And I'd rather not even paraphrase it here. I really would urge you to buy the book or get the audio book because I actually do the audio myself. Yeah. And I think that people should absolutely do that because as I was saying, what I thought was really good about it. The second you start reading it, you can hear it in your voice, you can read. You just feel like, you just feel like it's a conversation like we're having now, right? And you, I could be, I was on the set with you when you were talking about these things. But the other thing I thought was really great was, again, how vulnerable you were able to do because you were a kid.

kid, man. You're a kid going through this stuff and like the first crush is the idea of being able to handle this crazy fame. You tell a story and again, I don't want you to go through the whole thing because you can read it in the book, but I thought it was so telling was when you you get, you weren't even supposed to be a regular cast member. You blow up, you have this appearance and then you start to get this crazy fame and the Laker game story. Can you tell as much as you can without giving away the whole thing? You know, you have these seminal moments before social media where you learn you're famous. And for me, there were probably about three or four moments that kind of happened in succession.

And one of the key moments was me getting invited to a Laker game by one of our producers. And the whirlwind of events that took place that night, I'm 13 years old, I idolized the Lakers. and now I'm an official guest of Jerry Bus at the game, and I'm like because of my producer. And that night, just who I met, and it was such an eclectic group of people, too. It's like Jeffrey Tambour and Edie McClurg, the Reverend Jesse Jackson.

Right? And it's like, you know, some people might see it as a name drop, but it's not. I'm trying to show you the eclecticness of show business, right? and in the past that you can intersect. And then I ended up going into the Laker locker room after. And that would be that, come on, you're 13 years old. And you idolize Magic Johnson?

Yeah, we talk about magic at the apex of who he was. And in that locker room, there were a lot of really cool reveals. Yeah. Again, read the book. Read the book. Really. Totally. And more than one.

Yeah. One than one reveal. Well, but that, in that particular story, it was very telling to me because, as I was telling you before we started shooting, I lived, I grew up in New York, moved to L.A., lived there for about 25 years, just moved back in June. So there was so much, and you had mentioned at one point that you can really tell where you are as an actor, like, as far as the fame gauge, if you can walk around L.A., if you can't walk around in Los Angeles.

you know, go, if you can walk there and people like, hey, can I have your autograph? You know the apex of where you are at that point in your career. Well, that's something I just kind of learned. You know, Los Angeles can be a very jaded town. Can be. His reaction is everything you need. Right. But it's also my hometown.

Yeah. So you got to learn how to navigate your hometown in a way that it makes it feel like home to you. And so I really do enjoy what it is to be. basically walk around in L.A. And, you know, go in and out of businesses, et cetera, et cetera. And you don't even realize how you do it. You know, you create normal roots for yourself that feel normal to you. And I'm not necessarily, you know, I'm not a celebrity in those moments.

You know what I'm saying? I'm just a dad that lives in this area, whatever. So in L.A., when all of a sudden your little daily roots, as a public figure, you know, as a public figure become, you know, laden with people wanting autographs, wanting selfies, he was like,

yo, yeah, what's going on? Why is everybody asking me for a selfie now again? If that's happening in L.A., L.A. sets a high barometer for who they're going to go after. Sure. You know, only Travis Scott and Taylor are going to cause stampedes in L.A.

You know, otherwise it's everybody playing cool when they see somebody that happens to working in a Yeah, but not Jolil White in 1990s. That was different. 1990 is a, and let's talk about that, man, because again, being a kid at that age and realizing, as you mentioned again in the book, where that show was the network, and they still do this type of stuff today, scrambling with Cosby Show, it's a hit. What do we do next? We need a show about a black family. Let's do it. So they do family matters. And it's doing okay. So they introduced the character of Urkel in season one at the end. and you go in there and I think you break it down really great at how you're just getting ready. And before you go into that, I actually wanted to talk about something.

So I had the opportunity of interviewing both Sholametta Dwenia from Cobra Kai and Blue Beetle many times. I've been interviewed him since he was like 16 years old. Yeah. I'm a fan of his, man. I wrote something, Matt, actually with that kid in mind, the star. He's a great kid, man. He's a great kid, no boy. No, he's not.

It was just crazy. I seem as a kid because I interviewed him when he was 16 years old, right? And so the other person I bring up here. And I also will take, you say that there's no, there hasn't been a lot of great reboots. And I'm kind of battling with you because it's half movie. Now, Cobra Kai. But Cobra Kai is also based off the movie, so I'll give you a little.

No, we can get into it, though. Because I don't consider that a reboot. I consider that a re-envisioning. It depends on what your definition of reboot is. A definition, okay, so I'm glad you're asking that. A definition of reboot to me is you go do the exact same show with the exact same cast, or as many cast members from the previous,

from the previous IP that exists. I mean, with Kobe Kai, Kobe Kai is genius. I mean, I watched it when it was on YouTube Originals. You know, I was an early adopter to that. It didn't catch on until it went to Netflix in an acquisition deal.

If people don't get these things sometimes, like, when that thing first popped on, I was like, oh, what is this? And they took one element of the movie and put it in each, episode so that if you knew the movie you'd be like ah this is from the movie this is from the movie they built it around zolo um which he had nothing to do with he was not an original cast member at all what are you talking about was ralph machio um so i just feel like they created

that's a re-envisioning because they took a movie and they created an entire universe around that movie i yeah i i push back a little bit only because reboot for me it was always mentioning of where because we make reboot, right? Reboot is like we're rebooting it again, giving it some new life and pushing it forward, right? But was Cobra Kai ever an existing show? No, I mean, it wasn't, but the characters they use, we could, I'm telling you that you and I could probably debate this for a

final. Hey, let's go. I don't want to waste it. I don't want to waste it. Because I just want you to understand. It was just like, okay, no, that is a re-envisioning. No, it's not. Fair enough.

But the point with him and the point, And also, so did you see Prey, the Predator movie on Hulu? I did not. Okay, so Amber Midthunder was another. By the way, that was the most polite disagreement you would ever see on an issue between two people. I would say re-envisioning, he says reboot, and we just politely move on. 100%. If only our country's politics could work the same way.

It does not. This is why I turn the news off now at this point. But where it comes to those two examples, the reason I bring them up is something that I started to hear in my head when I'm, reading your book and that's the family that surrounds all three of you. Sholo's mom very strong in his life keeping him grounded. Amber's mom, same with you. I know it's both your mom and your dad had a lot, but your mom keep me on track and I love the story about the car because as a dad with two daughters like, yeah, you can have your own car. Yeah, you got your own money, but take care of this thing first and then get it. But what is it about your family?

family that really kept you because you don't hear a lot of stories about you, man. How like, because someone at your age you could have heard really going down the wrong track. And you didn't, you know. And so do you definitely say this is my family upbringing? This is a reason why I'm able to have these morals that I do. Yeah. No, listen, you, I say this is the one thing I shared in all my talks about the book. You know, is one of the key quotes is the first miracle in your life is who you're

born to. And, you know, somehow your comic past life creates that for you. And you enter the game to start anew. So for me, I was blessed with two parents who were very young. They came from extremely humble beginnings in the Crenshaw district in L.A. But they had an instinct to pour a lot of love to me and protect me. My father was a huge protector. I outlined a very key moment. And my mother was, for better or for worse, a helicopter mom. So, you know, the point of bringing that up of her being such a helicopter

mom is, as much as it was a pain in the butt for me even at times growing up, helicopter moms like mine or perhaps Zolos, you know, they send a clear message to predators that someone is here, loves this kid, and is paying attention to what's happening to them. You can't just drop off your kid on a movie studio lot and expect them to just return home at the end of the day like it's a school and the bell rings at 3 o'clock. It's like, no, no, no. That's an adult working environment. I can only imagine how many people we may have even worked with as kids back in the 90s who may have had rap sheets. They were not, their backgrounds, checks were shodian stuff, man.

Well, it was funny you bring that up, though. I mean, that situation is not funny at all. Right, I know what you're saying. But Audit you brought that up, but quite on set, the Nickelodeon documentary. I did break down and watch it for the sake of writing this book. And I found that to be a very key moment. when his father and his father, the mother came and basically upended the father's place. And the father had odd feelings about this particular guy.

But in a co-parenting situation that just wasn't going well, the father was displaced. And the second he was alone out there, that's when the offender went to work. So, you know, I really salute the parents that figure out that there has to be some type of supervision. on your sets. If your kid is working and show business, I don't care if it's Broadway, I don't care if it's TV, if it's movies, I mean, the music

business, oh my gosh, that gets even wilder though. But that was my mom. My mom was a helicopter mom and she wasn't going nowhere. Well, what also I thought was pretty telling when it came to both your parents was that, and I think relating to what we were just talking about here is I think that the greed

and the carrot can be dangled in front a lot of the parents. And they see it And they see the money and they go, oh, okay, well, I just kind of turn an eye, my kids making the money. And then, oh, what am I buying for me? And your parents didn't do that. And they just, you guys lived in the same place for quite a while and all that. And to me, that's very telling, dude. I had the same cracker box bedroom.

As a matter of fact, I think it was, we started going on so many trips for work or for appearances, Hawaii. You know, obviously I talked about going on staying at the plaza, hotel in that particular room. And when we would come home, no joke. Our house was starting to become smaller than the hotel rooms we were staying. And it was like even that was starting to be like, mom, how much longer are we going to stay here? Sure. Yeah, but do you think, do you feel, did you take that into some of your parenting? Because your kids definitely grew up a lot different than you did because of the success that you had. So do you, when you're taking it into your parenting with your daughter. Do you feel that this is something that you took with you?

Oh, I take a lot of different things from my mom and my dad. It's amazing how when you have a child, how instinctively you actually lean on whatever your parents did to you. Right. And you got to be careful too because you got to unlearn a lot of stuff that your parents did to you. Sure. that may not be appropriate anymore or may not be applicable to your kid. I don't think a lot of people pay attention to, I'm not going to say a lot of people, I don't think enough people pay close enough attention to their children's gifts and their children's proclivities and what they're naturally drawn to. So much as adults were just kind of conditioned to project everything that was us and our past

on to our kid. Right. And I just, I got lucky in that way in that, you know, I basically like if, like my dad wasn't allowed to,

I would say this from the book, like my dad, my dad's very athletic. He never played sports. And he asked his mother, you know, to sign a permission slip for him to play football.

And she said she had to talk to God. And God never got back to her. Right. And so that was it. My father never played on a sports team. Because of that, my dad made it a point to sign me up for everything.

And so I never felt pressured, and I always felt that I could play anything I wanted thanks to my dad. So that's a positive and where a negative happened to my father, and he turned into a positive in my life, and I think both he and my mom

did a really cool, cool job of that, and I try to emulate that as well. Yeah, I love that. You're welcome. Yep, I gave you the gift of Vaya. That's right, and I'm going to give it to you again. If you want to break from the crowded stores a endless gift list. You restore your Zen and you embrace the natural power of cannabis this

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No, there's a title, a chapter in the book. Entitled a little shit. Yeah. That's the name of the chapter. Yeah, and that's why I said when I opened this up, the honesty of it, because it's like, it's, you know, like, oh, that's what I did. and you guys were the wrong ones. It's like, there's a lot of things that we're human.

It's a human. It's human. And as you said, before, it's humbling to where you understand the things, the things that you did, the things that you did right, the things that you did wrong, the things you want to change. There's so much peace, though, on the other side of accountability. Sure. It really is. Yeah, I don't want to sound like a preacher at all or anything like that, but I'm like, just,

just look at the mirror and being like, what did I do in that? Right. And I don't know. It's just, it's something that is. that has served me so much better in my adulthood, and I was completely oblivious to how many people just, they can't do it. And even when I watch something like quiet on set,

you know, I just see that you can, from person to person, you go, okay, this person is choosing to be accountable. Oh, this person just wants to completely ignore it. Right, right. And it's like, and I thought that comes with the, for some people, power of age and understanding and wisdom, you know, as you get older and things. I had some take that I had on my show the other day, and I saw a comment that said,

well, the reason why you said that is because that is you getting older and mature and understanding. When the gray's come in. A hundred percent. Yeah, looking at that. But to jump back into you in this role and what you did and the idea of taking that role, which was just like, hey, I'm auditioning for something. I get this part as Urkel and I walk in. Can you remember, though, that particular day, because you dress the part, you auditioned with the part, all that.

But the day on set, and because you're what, you're 12 years old at that point? So can you take me through that moment of right as you get on the stage and the cameras are ready to roll? And like, did you just feel yourself become? No, I just, I think. So for me, the moment, I'm on stage, but it's my first time rehearsing. So there's no cameras there yet, but it's just me rehearsing with. Kelly Williams and the girl who was playing Penny her best friend and with the local school diner

and they called me to Saturday night that was my first day working with Rich Correll and Rich Correll is like a legendary sitcom director his father was one of the ten one of the duo of Amos and Andy and so he came from a huge comedy background and Rich comes from the old school directors to where he would position you he put his hands on You stand here. You stand here. You can't touch nobody now.

Right, man. And I remember him just right off the bat. He was just like, I want to see something here. He said, you know, he's like, you seem like you're an athlete. You like playing basketball? I heard you like playing basketball. I was like, yeah, man. And he taught me a trick of how to hit a door with my foot and then snap my head back.

So that people actually are reacting to the sound, but you never really hit your head. And so for him to be able to show that to a kid and a kid doesn't, and it looks believable and he doesn't get hurt. He's like, oh, okay, okay, I've got a toy I can work with here. I've got something to work with, right? A lot of times a sitcom director is actually trying to hide what an actor or an actress can't do. So when you reveal to them that you can do something, you can sing, you can take a frat ball, you can lift something or whatever.

Oh, you're giving them a lot to work with. So it was a slow process throughout that week of them just discovering things that I could do. and then by the time we got in front of a live studio audience, the laughs I had heard all week were just exponentially bigger. And then we had this fraternity in the live audience that was chanting the name Urkel in between the scenes that I wasn't in. So even that's like, you know, in between scenes, I'm peaking in the wings too.

Waving to the guys and everything. You like that? I'll be back. I'll be back. That's hilarious. Because as a kid, all you want, approval of course from any and everybody yeah and then for as you were saying though because as we mentioned earlier where family matters was doing okay and here's the introduction of Steve Uracle you bring him here he is

and then it's like the writers were probably then and the director and everybody producers were probably having a field day going wait a minute wait a minute we think we got something here more so let's start using this kid and they do they make you a regular cast member in season two and that's when it all Yeah. Happens. Is there, and I know you kind of touch on a little bit, but is there, once you start really becoming, because every time you mention family members,

the first person they think of is you. You don't have to say it, but I can't. And it's the first person that they think of. And is there at that point, you know, maybe it's season three, maybe it's season five, that you're feeling it from the other cast saying, hey, we're here two? Does it ever feel like that?

Or is it always like, no, no, no, no. This is, we love what's happening in with Jalil also, and they were very supportive of it. No, I mean, it's well documented, you know, things were bumpy in the beginning, especially in season one, when I wasn't even really a confirmed regular. I just got signed to the back nine episodes, and there were definitely on-set differentiators. Your dressing room is over there. Your parking lot is still way over there. I mean, your parking space is still way in the structure. And, you know, I wasn't a part of cast intros or any of that kind of stuff in the beginning. And I don't begrudge that, actually.

You know, that's why when those things changed in season two, as a kid, you're excited. You feel like you earned something, actually. But we quickly became a family. And I remember the, this, I can remember things sometimes episode by episode. You know, Boxcar Blues was the episode. I really felt like Reggie and I developed a almost Laurel and Hardy type chemistry. and we were trapped in a train together and with no way of getting off

and Steve is just annoying the living heck out of him. And I can make Reggie break character like just by making certain faces and just do it. You know, he would just crack up. That's the reality of what our relationship really was over the span of nine years. Reggie was the number one comedy scene partner and then it's a toss-up.

It's really close between Michelle Thomas, miss you rest in peace, who played Myra and Kelly, my second scene partners where just magic would happen when I was in scenes with these people. Well, you bring up Michelle, and there is something that you mentioned

when it comes to, back to our conversation of reboot and remake. Here we go again. The debates back home. Yeah, it is. But, no, you had the conversation, I think, was a really great intro to it, of how you get into

all of this and you have the meeting Bob yeah you have the meeting with Bob and he so many different people have been trying to get you to do the reboot or to try to get to try to get you back to do um it wasn't so many people no no no I mean I actually like to clarify that okay it's like I was never really offered a reboot it's just the easiest way to talk about it I was I was offered by our top executive producer who is still with us um I was offered a blind contract with the studio that basically said, you sign here, you will be paid this amount of money, and we'll take it from there. And we'll tell you what it is when it's signed.

And we will tell you what it is when it's done. Right. And I'm like, hold on. Hold on, man. So, and his pitch was, you know, Steve and Laura get married, and they have a kid that's so similar to Steve. And in my opinion, I've always called that. It says, that's the Twitter pitch.

Yeah. I can literally go, and I have gone on Twitter and be like, oh, I see 12 different versions of this, you know, tweeted out by somebody else. And how dare we embark on this and call that IP that you own? Are you serious? So, and the other cast members were always discussed in a very, oh, and they'll drop by. Right. Right. So it's like, so even that, I'd like to help the narrative that somehow I put myself in front of,

everybody and I'm only thinking about what's going to serve me. I'm like, no, no, no, no. I'm actually trying to avoid a situation again where cast members from past think that they want to do it better this time in their favor. And oh, you're back for all episodes and you get your old payback and oh, no, no, no. That's not what they have in mind for you. You know, that's one of the thing just even about life, information tends to filter down. Sure. And especially today. Yeah.

If you don't know what you don't know, you could be speaking crazy about what the possibilities even are for yourself. So yeah, that was the extent of the offer. There was no script. There was no producer, writing producer attached. We just want to secure you so we can do it. Yeah. Once we have you, we can go make a do.

we can go make a deal. Right. And what was that? Was that 2000? It was around 2016. It was 2016. So that was right around, like, as you mentioned in the book, when it was the full house remakes, there's happened and all these different things that people are doing that

and pushing forward, hey, let's get the nostalgia stuff back. I actually thought it would be more interesting if Urkel's kid was the exact opposite of him. That would have a lot. Listen, I was actually open to a lot of ideas. I had a very simple ask. Show me some stories. Right. And suddenly that became a top-tier ask.

Well, you know, we're going to get writers then. They'll figure it. No, no, no. We're here at lunch. Just pitch me a couple stories. Right. Because I knew it couldn't be done, but I wanted to hear it anyway. I'm like, humor me.

Like, what? We jumped the shark. We put people in porta-potties, and we made them cool, and we transported entire families to Paris. And we created a universe that was only acceptable in the 90s, And it's fantastic for the 90s. And it's almost kind of like a Bugs Bunny cartoon. You know, those are considered violent and dangerous for kids now.

But to us, they're classics. Woody Woodpecker is a serial killer at this point. Exactly, right? But, you know, made back then. Right. And appreciate it now. They're classics. Right.

So that's why people can still enjoy, which I think is amazing, that people don't even realize that family matters, there's never a cell phone on our show. There's never anybody, not a smartphone, or rarely anybody. call it. I mean, Steve all had every kind of phone device, but I mean, just like in a traditional sense, a phone is not a part

of our narrative at all, and kids today are still watching that. So I was looking, my goal was like, okay, if we're going to make something, let's make something that advances the legend of family matters. And, like, you know, one of my favorite skits is

the key and peel skips. I was just going to ask you about it. I was going to ask you what you think. Did you love it? No, I love that. I, Jordan Peel actually, he FaceTime me, and I was skiing. And it's one of my greatest screenshot regrets. I never answer my phone either when I'm skiing. I keep that thing in my pocket and I enjoy my day. But I was getting on the lift, and I had the helmet on, goggles, and everything,

and it's snowing, and I feel it buzzing, and I'm picking up. And it's my boy King Batch and Jordan Peel. And that's a little secret in famous circles. with certain famous people, you know, FaceTime you. It means they got something good on the other side. And if they don't, it means they'll call might not be answered next time.

So I answered. I get to take my mittens off. I wear mittens. I don't wear gloves. You keep my hands more. And take my mitts off and answer. And it's Jordan Peel and King Badge. And he's like, hey, this Negroes in the snow.

Right? And it's just like a moment where it was like, and it's like literally two years later, like he won the Oscar. And I'm like, why didn't I hit that button? Because it was such a surreal moment. He was like, man, I thought you would be mad. You would be upset.

And I was like, I said, Jordan, my criteria for anything has always been audience satisfaction. And is it funny? If it's funny, we got to find a way to do it. And that skit, it was as if they had a mole on our set that just took, you know, behind the scenes energy. and made it into an S&L skit. Now, the show that I would envision that's more inspired by the book would definitely be tonally different.

That's the skit that Jordan did is over the top. But there was something about the meta-acknowledgment of it all, right? When he just goes on the rant, and he's like, Steve Urkel builds a machine that transports Carl to Mars when he was going through the red, right? So you were losing it when you saw it. Exactly. I'm losing it, I'm like, oh, man, this is, I think this is what people want to see in our, if there is to be a reboot. It's some incarnation of this. And that doesn't even necessarily involve me all that much. That would mean hiring, that would mean casting a kid to play the central character. And if it was all about me, I'd just be trying to work out something where I'm the star and I get the highest check and I get the highest check.

I get the parking spot and blah, blah, blah, blah. But I'm like, no, man, it's, especially in this day and age, you have to consider the audience. Like, I just went to see the Beetlejuice remake, and I loved it. I could tell, I could feel the difference when Tim Burton is working for the studio. And having fun. And when Tim Burton is in his bag and he's having fun. Yeah, he's using all the claymation stuff again.

Exactly, exactly, right? And it's just like that's, that's what it takes to make a hit, is you, you, you, I want to see Tim Burton happy with the audience's response. Not just Tim Burton happy, but happy with the audience's response. Totally. And that's a great treat for us. I agree with that. And I talk about it all the time in my show.

One of the biggest problems, too, is the overspending in studios. They overspend with when it comes to the movies. It really is, man. They spend, like, look, I love The Rock. But spending $250 million on a Christmas movie is not a Christmas action movie. And it is 35 million opening weekend. It's like, it's a different time. Well, let me tell you something. I want to work with the Rock one day, so I completely disagree.

As I should. As you should. And I, and I love, I love him. I love him, but he's not the only one. There's tons of people out there that are spending way too much money on these movies. But to jump back to your point when it comes to, you got to do it for the right reasons and all that. And I wonder, inside that, because you said you were open to it. Yeah. But inside of that, is there that thing? Shilling stories. Right. But when you leave that show initially, and you're going, and I'm sure, because I talk,

to Mark Paul Gossler not too long ago. And he was talking about his time as Zach Morris, you know, and like, he's smart dude right there. Very smart dude. And he was typecast for a bit and it was hard for him to find work. Like what's that, you know, and you talked about it. But what's the transition period kind of like from, all right, now the here's this. I'm at the height of my fame and people know me everywhere I go.

I'm going to, I'm going to Laker games. I'm meeting Magic Johnson. I'm taking pictures of Michael Jordan. And then the show's over. Where do you, is that point of like, oh, my God, what am I going to do here? Everybody sees me as a dessert. Well, it's deeper than that. I'm so happy you actually threw out a name like Mark Paul Gossler, right?

Because that's somebody who has worked steady. And I know the ones who have worked steady. Transitioning to your next big opportunity that people will actually know and remember you for, it's tough for anybody, man. You remember the old series chips? Yeah, of course. Eric Strata. Yeah.

And I go do my research. I get my Guglay on. Yeah, yeah. Um, is, uh, but it wasn't, but I love that you just said Erica Strata too. What was the white guys in there? Exactly. Isn't his name? Wasn't his name John exactly? Okay. I don't, I don't, I don't remember quite either, but guess what? I know who his son was. His son is Chris Bond. Wow. See, that you do know that. Okay. So that's that is, I did not know that. And, you know, that guy after Chips had a tough time finding work. Right. And, um, And he and his wife, when I read their story, I mean, they did some real things to make ends meet. You know, it's, I think it's a little deeper than typecasting.

It's, according to the rules of the business, the executives that run our business, there are very few who will be designated a TV star, even when their TV show is no longer on the air. I can't find a moment when Ted Danson wasn't. designated a TV star, even in between shows. Jewelry Drifis, TV star, even in between shows. But a guy like that, you said, Eric Estrada, you couldn't even tell me his name, but he's iconic. And, you know, I would put that in line with more or less somebody like a Mark Paul Gosler,

you know, where I love showing other examples so that people can just have a respect for what it is to stay alive in the big. business period, no matter how you've been, you know, imaged or branded. And I just, I just have real, like, I see the guys that put in the work. I see the guys that go jump on the stage and do something on Broadway or write books or, you know, direct. You know, some people make entire, entire switches into directing. And then they return to acting. And, but this, this notion that you're going to get to do one thing act,

forever in consecutive years, uninterrupted, and your pay's only gonna go up. I only know one person who gets to do that, it's Tom Cruise. I was just gonna say, Tom Cruise, yeah, yeah, Tom Cruise, for sure. So I respect that journey. My dad always brings that up too, is like, you know, even when I told them,

because I went to LA for a bunch of different reasons, but when my dad was always like, you remember that there's, it's a very fickle business and there's the percentage of people that stick around, even if there's big things that happen, big things will happen, but you gotta always, have backup plans. You always got to have ideas and things you do because you get that role. And especially as a kid, you probably think, this is going to go on forever. Actually, it was the opposite for us.

Really? Because your parents? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We kept waiting for the other shoe drop. Right. Right. So you always prepared and that's why saving and those things. Again, why it is so, I'm telling people to go check out this book because you really get such a grounded perspective of this. And then, so when you're done with the show and you're trying to find new opportunities. When did Sonic come into play? Oh, Sonic actually was like my high school side hustle. Oh, it was?

Okay. I thought the candy was the side hustle. Yeah, like, that was my middle school side hustle. Right, right. Sonic was my high school side hustle. Okay. Yeah, I was, I barely even wanted that job, which I talk about. I was so headstrong about wanting to do an Urkel cartoon, which just felt more organic.

and I'm so happy I did not get what I wanted. That's another thing that I try to share with people. Any of the stories I share about myself are actually just salad dressing for the life lesson that might apply to you. That's the whole point of the book. That was where I was sneaky with it, but now the book is done and I can tell you.

I'm like, when you read a story, look and see how it affects you. If we always got whatever we wanted, Think about how miserable you'd be. Oh, 100%. If you got every girl you ever wanted. If you got every car, every job you thought you deserved. The movie I said I wanted to get so bad, even in the book,

turned out to be one of the worst films that year. They got a razzie for everything. So you have to put yourself in a mindset of being prepared, but being welcoming of the blessings that are really intended for you, which means not being jealous of other people, not being envious of other people. And also, you know, this is the part that comes with age. And you can't expect young people to understand it.

Is respecting patience. Yeah. You know, because people ask me, talking about this is, why now? Why is the right time now? And I'm like, I have many different answers for that. But the simple answer for it is that there were these incremental steps that just kept pulling me towards the opportunity with all of its supporters. It even, you can't see her.

but it even started with my brand manager at the AP Brand Group introduces me to this literary agent. And I turned her down at first. I'm like, I don't see a deal here. I had somebody advising me. And then a year later, Alexi comes back from AP Brand Group again. She's like, you know, that girl still wants to talk. And it's like, all right, all right, all right.

And then I get introduced to Yadon Israel at Simon & Schuster and another publishing house too that I won't name because they were nice people. But the second I got on with Yadon, it was just like, Oh, all of those delays were supposed to get me to you. Right. And that's similar to what you're saying. And that's what happened with Sonic.

That's even what happened with Sonic. It was like Sonic was put in my path to help save my future. Wow. I have my when I go to Comic-Con's or I hear from fans, it is it's damn near split. Really? It's damn near split. Wow. The fans of Sonic the

Hedgehog are as loyal as you would ever imagine. That's why I was like, you know, not being included in the movie. I was going to ask you, any talks in these movies at all? No. It was, and I talk about it, you know, in the book because I don't never want to feel like I have sour

grades, but that's just the way it goes in our town is that it's an IP, it's an intellectual property, meaning Sonic. Sure. And Sega licenses it to whoever they want to. And when it goes to somebody, you know, everybody wants to put their imprint on it. And, you know, when they got Jim Carrey to be in the film, everything else became secondary. Sure. And so that's how I kind of missed out being in the Sonic film.

But the new one coming out this year, but isn't there something, obviously, maybe not. with the voice because they've got someone doing the voice of the character. But even showing up and there's been no conversations. I'm telling you, that's not my, it's, it don't work that way. You need to have, you need to essentially have a fan that happens to be on that program. Okay. Or that, that movie or, and they are in a place of influence and they say, hey, I want, I want to make it happen.

Share the clip. Let's get this guy in number four. That's the whole point. We're going to share this clip and get you in number four. I mean, listen, I would, I would welcome it. Trust me. I'm a big fan of Jim anyway, and I've met Jim through Jeffrey. and he's everything I thought. He's everything I thought he would be. I mean, the man's a genius.

But that's just the way those things work out. You would, fans at home think that they're being considered so much. They're not considering you, bro. They are considering their Roman office politics. And, you know, if the thing makes a whole lot of money, then they look good as the stewards of the project. Yeah, that's true. But social media is powerful, man. Social media is Power. Look at Rosario Dawson. She was on an interview with my friend Ash Cross and I actually, and they were mentioning Assoca, and the fans had put her as Assoca in that clip. She's awesome.

She's awesome. And then it went viral and she got Asoka. So who knows? Let's get Gillilin's in number four, please. But speaking of Star Wars, we got Skeleton Crew. What are you talking about? Oh, you can't even talk about. What is going on?

Well, we know you're in it. What are you? Am I? Is it one of those? Am I? You're not? We don't know if you're in it. Am I?

I'm a huge Star Wars. The World Universe failed. I can tell you, this is how powerful Disney is. Because you and I have been having a very good boom, boom, boom. I say that, and you just went silent. So nothing. You can't talk about skeleton crew whatsoever. Do you like Bryce Dallas-Hauer as a director?

I can say that. I can ask that. I loved all the directors. You do like all the directors. I appreciate that. It's quite a lineup of directors. They have done that. Can I ask you what you thought of the trailer?

Can I ask you about what? Did you? Yeah, I think there's a real. I think that I think that skeleton crew definitely has a chance of restoring

a lot of the magic that's associated with the Star Wars. You know, just they, I can tell from this trailer they spent a lot of money and they spend it in a lot of good places.

It looks like it, yeah, because I actually had an opportunity I met John Watts outside of... He's dope. Yeah, Star Wars celebration. Not that I've met him.

No, no, he's just... Yeah, right, sure. And I saw him, it was myself, my friend, staff, and my friend Mike. And we saw him outside of our hotel. And they had just done this big presentation on it. And they kept pushing, him and Favreau kept pushing the fact that this is Goonies, Amblin type of thing. And he goes, look, just because there's kids in it, doesn't mean there's not going to be some kind of...

Yeah, no, it's not that I can say. You know, it seemed like we were more comfortable in the 80s and 90s with kids being the central characters of... of more elevated storytelling. And, you know, think about, you know, films like The Lost Boys and, you know, that was pretty, that's still a seminal vampire movie, right? Totally. Nothing but minors at the core of that story, right?

Great movie, yeah. But something happened. I don't know if it was the emergence of Disney Channel and Nickelodeon or what, where it's like if a minor's at the center of a story, the story can't be taken seriously. Right. So, you know, it definitely rises above that, I promise you. Okay, I'll get you away from the Trouble Zone at this point. We'll move on.

I want to talk about a movie that I feel is super underrated. I loved it. Hustle. Hey. I love that movie. Oh, thank you, man. I loved that movie. Thank you so much.

And I remember watching it. Because, I, look, I'm an Adam Sandler, classic, happy Gilmore, Billy Bennett. He shouldn't have you get more right now. I know, I know. I was supposed to go to set, but I can't find the time to get there. I'm excited for that. And I can't wait to talk about nostalgia, right? I'm looking forward to that.

But to me, Punch Drunk, Love, Hustle, the movies that he's really, like, you can see, I feel like there's a lot of, like, real, and you know better than I do, but like, real Adam in there. Uncut gems, but that definitely I don't think was real Adam, but who he is in the court, but he was a great performance. So tell me about that, because you have a great relationship with, obviously, he wrote a nice thing about you in this book. Tell me about your relationship with Adam, getting that role and about working on that movie. Man, hustle is one of those. those again, just one of those blessings. They just kind of came out of nowhere and it had the

perfect timing. So many great things happened because of Hustle. I mean, I got called out of the blue. Middle of pandemic. Worst of pandemic. The thing I'm most impressed with Hustle as a production, I stared at that screen in every corner. Not a single mask in any shot on the ground. Even in basketball scenes outdoors, I'm like, there's got to be a mask on the ground. Not a single mask on the ground. Everybody was masked up and six feet apart for the shooting of that film during the times when they had not yelled action. I literally would be talking to Adam on the set and someone in a flag jacket would come up to us

and say, you guys, could you, you know, separate please? And I mean, that's an annoying thing for a PA with that amount of power now suddenly to come up and do. and that dude was super gracious. Adam was super. Oh, sorry about that. So I would take my cues even from him. It was like, all right, if number one is going to observe it,

then, hey, I'm going to follow suit. But I had to quarantine at the four seasons in Philadelphia, 57th floor eating peanut butter and jelly sandwiches, 10 days in a row before it was safe for me to be around Mr. Adam Sailing. And I was actually going through some personal stuff. at that time so it was kind of like a it was almost like a breakup rehab I was I was actually texting with my future wife oh really from quarantine um and uh Adam calls me up one day and he goes at the end of the 10 days he says hey man we're we're gonna play some basketball

uh you know I know you've been here but you know if you want to come play you know let me know and and I was like oh yeah sure you said well you know how soon do you think you can get packed up And I said, oh, I don't know, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm going to sit down for you right now. Oh, wow. And, and, and then it hit. I was like, oh, he's saying, pack your shit, bro, you are out of the four seasons. Welcome to the bubble. Right, right, right. And so, I'm so I canceled. my lunch and went back my stuff and and into the bubble I went where they were on it we were living on a compound they were living on the compound I went to join them and I was one of basically like six people that were allowed to play basketball with Adam on this private property and that's what we did for the next 10 days and then the next eight days we got down to filming and it was just magical man

the people the parade of people that came through who have a love for the game that's the other thing people don't really notice about the movie is every single cast member of that movie has an attachment to basketball. I noticed it. Because I know Adam's a big ball. But I mean every single cast member, if you look into their background, has an attachment to basketball that is authentic. So that's all the whole set we just talking basketball. I think I think Hustle is one of the, I think Hustle is a top three basketball film of all time. It's a great movie. I only put Hoosiers up there because Hoosiers, it's just Hoosiers. I'd say Hoop Dreams next, and I'm not even lying.

I'd say hustle is number three. No blue chips? Hustle is number three. So it's absolutely, it really is. It was a solid, and my wife who's not a big sports fan. She's not. Well, that's the best sports movie

is a movie that tells a human interest story that somebody who doesn't even love that sport can get into. She loved it. And it was a great, great movie. And so did you meet, did you know Adam beforehand through? I played with Adam in the NBA Entertainment League, the famed Secret Society NBA Entertainment League.

And this was a period between in the early 2000s where the NBA sponsored an actual entertainment league for people in the entertainment community. And we wore the actual uniforms, you know, like authentic Laker uniforms, Celtic uniforms, etc. And this was before cell phones were allowed to film anybody. So Will Ferrell was in that league. Donald Faison was in that league. Josh Dewamel. I met everybody in that darnly. Steve Howie or boy, Steve Howey.

And it became like a fraternity. Yeah. And so I hadn't seen Adam since 2019. There was a fundraiser softball game in Malibu for some fires that happened out there. That was terrible. And Adam showed up. And I remember him, we introduced our daughters, and I remember him looking at me. He goes, I have something for you.

Like, I might, yeah. And he only said it, like, in passing, like that. And when somebody says something like that in our business, you take it with a grain of salt and you just, you know. But now when he says that, you're going to believe it every time. Yeah. Right. I mean, it was like a year and a half on the dot, and I get the call. And so it's just like, it, because of all those connect the dots,

Yeah. It's, having been in hustle, it's something that just means a lot too. And you guys are pretty tight. Yeah. Oh, yeah. He's a match, man. He's a special one. And before I let you go, you mentioned Faison.

I know he's a big Star Wars guy. Yes, he is. He's a big star. So that's where he found me because I hosted a show on Collider was a Star Wars Jedi Council. Okay, okay. And he used to watch it. So when I used to run into him at like the premieres and stuff, and he would talk Star Wars. And he got a voice.

He was in one of the animated shows. I had no idea how much he was into stop motion animation. He loves. It's his passion. His life passion. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So he would geek out about Star Wars. So I'm sure the next time we talk, we can talk about more Star Wars conversations.

I'm sure you guys will have. I have my idea of this guy's talking about me. Me either. But what I do. Tantons and jumps all over. That's what I do. That's normally what I do. So, Jillo, thank you so much for joining me here today, man.

I appreciate it. I want people to go and check out the book, please. And then it's out. It's out now. Yeah, no, it's out. It's out on audio. I do the audio. That didn't sound great right there, but I do the audio version, which I'm kind of proud of that took a lot of hours.

But I wanted to add another level of authenticity to it. Well, I'm glad that you did. Thank you so much. It is a read that everybody should, especially, look, whether you watch Family Matters, who didn't. Or if you didn't, you should really check it out because it is, as you said, a very, very, it's a great story. And told in a great, I could hear it. As you're talking to me, I could hear you. I didn't listen to it. I read it. So reading it. I can hear your voice. So thanks again, man. I appreciate it.

Dude. Yeah. Thank you. Seriously. Go watch hustle. Yeah, watch hustle. Hustle.