The Kristian Harloff Show - JAMIE CAMPBELL BOWER talks Stranger Things, working with Kevin Costner, Game Of Thrones and more

Episode Date: June 25, 2024

Jamie Campbell Bower is already having an incredible career at a young age. From Twilight to Harry Potter , Stranger Things as the series best villain Vecna. Now he is in Kevin Costner's new epic fwestern, Horizon An American Saga. Kristian Harloff discusses the roles he has played, dealing with social media and much more. Join and enjoy! 

How's it going, everybody? Welcome back to the big thing. It is Tuesday. And so for those peeps who have been looking for the UAP show on Tuesday, we moved it over to the Down to Earth channel with Christian Harloff, you just search Down to Earth with Christian Harloff, and you'll find it. But a lot of what the Tuesday show is going to be, whether it's a live stream with me, we're going to try to get it live in studio show also.

But when, and I mean, we're really working on getting more guests on the show, when I get a really great guest. The Tuesday episodes will be where the guest interviews land. And what a way to start that off with Jamie Campbell Bauer. So he's got a new movie coming out. It is the Kevin Costner epic, the American saga. That it is, Horizon Part 1 in American Saga. And Jamie Campbell Bauer is, he plays Caleb Sykes. And you also know him obviously from Stranger Things. He's, I think, Next to Robert Pattinson, the only actor that was also in both Twilight and Harry Potter. The list goes on and on for this guy. He's going to, and he's a very accomplished musician.

There's a lot. There's a lot with him. So I was excited to sit down and talk to him for about an hour. And we talked about everything. And what a cool dude. He is, man. He is very, very open. Talks about things with his past.

He talks about his process. in general, talks about how he relates, how he connects to characters, how he does so. And you can tell it's just like, like us all. We're constantly learning. So it's a really good conversation. We laughed a bunch too, which is always a good thing. So I'm excited for you guys to check it out. If you are brand new to this channel, we've never been here before, we do not just interviews

and all that, we do out of the theater reactions, we do reviews, we do it all. So hit that subscribe button. and we're trying to get to 200,000 subscribers, and I think that we can do it, but you've got to hit that button. So, without any further ado, this is myself talking to Jamie Campbell Bauer, talking about his new movie Horizon,

and a bunch of other stuff. So check it out. Here you go. All right, guys, as I mentioned, I am very excited to speak to my next guest. Now, obviously, when it comes to his work, you've either seen him on, again, so many different things,

whether it's the Twilight movies, whether it is Harry Potter, whether it is Stranger Things, of course. Ed, I am so excited to talk to him about his latest role as Caleb Sykes in the new Kevin Costner Horizon. It's part one. It's an American saga.

I'm so excited to speak to Jamie Campbell-Bower. How are you, Jamie? How are you doing? I'm very good. Thank you so much for having me. I'm glad that you can be with us. So, yeah, man, listen, this movie, it is exactly what it says it's going to be it is a saga um it when i'm watching this movie and i'm

watching you in particular here and my daughter is 12 years old and she is interested in theater she's interested in acting and when she got cast in the jungle book when she was younger she was uh sheer con and she didn't want to play a bad guy she don't want to play a villain and i said they're the most interesting because the thing is about the villains and the things the ones with the issues is that they feel like their point of view and what they're doing is right. And I feel that you have made such a career in a lot of those roles, not all of them,

but a lot of those roles. And this one in particular, I think Caleb is very challenged. What would you say about approaching this particular role with Caleb? I mean, first things first, like when I read the script, I felt electric from the word go.

You know, all these characters, this whole world. I was like, this is, this is perfect. So I knew I had to, I had, I had to be in this one way or another, you know, by hook or by crook, as it were. And then, you know, discovering Caleb and coming to him, first of all, there was just a level of kind of intuition and understanding for him and with him and a love for him to you. I think I always have to love the characters I play. If you don't love for them, how can you fight for them, right? And then to figure out, all right, well, we see a relationship dynamic with his mother and his father a little, but his mother, you know, she, without giving too much away, you know, there's a physical, there's a physicality between them. And that for me speaks volumes. I really do think it's always interesting to figure out the reasons why people are the way they are and trauma is obviously a big part of that. And I was just saying to somebody earlier, you know, you can't beat the person out of somebody.

You know, you do that. What's going to happen is they're going to come back bigger, meaner, harder than ever before. And Caleb is no exception to that. So it very much took that and was thinking about, all right, well, what does that create? It creates fear, which then creates hatred, which is rage, you know, rage manifests itself. And then how does that affect him? Well, that probably is going to affect him in a way where he is probably going to feel more comfortable to be in the position of power and control in most, if not all social situations that he finds himself in. Because it feels comfortable because for him, they're bullied.

You know, he's not bullied anymore within that world. And so that's kind of emotionally how I discovered him and how I kind of felt. in love with him. I love like the, just to hear you the way you internalize that is, and so I guess that is one of the things I wanted to discuss as well. And with working with Kevin Costner on this film, like when you have that, when you're able to look at Caleb and say, okay, everything that you just described to me just now, do you approach that with him and say, and are there new things, do you have a lot of freedom

with it? Does he know the character and the character so much that he gives you a lot of what you just told me or you also are, it's like this collaboration because obviously he's such a a phenomenal actor himself that he he gets it. And so how does that process work when working with Kevin was obviously he was so passionate about this project in general. How much do he know about Caleb and how much were you allowed to be creative with that? I mean, Kevin knows, Kevin knows everything about all of that world.

You know, this is a world he's been living in since 1988. Yeah, for sure. But he understands the importance of trusting his actors and trust. the intuition that we will bring. Otherwise, he wouldn't cast us in the films. You know, he could cast, he could, you know, do whatever he want to make it, you know, make it CGI if he wanted to. There's a level of humanity that all actors bring.

So we were fortunate that we were able to do a lot of exploring on set, you know, within our characters. We do the work at home, you know, that's part of the job. We do the work, we figure it out, we bring that with us. And then you get onto set, and you're in the space and you're feeling each other out. And you've also got another person in front of you. You've got that human being.

You're reacting to what they're giving you. And you're also just kind of living. You're living in that moment. So there was freedom within that. But what I love about Kevin, and what I love about Kevin. And what I love about working with him is, is he's been around long enough now, I think, to kind of figure out that actors, we have our tricks that we love

and that they help us sometimes. but the best directors in the world always bring something new out of the actors that they're working with. And that's what Kevin does. He's very excited by what you can bring to the table and then he'll go, and try that. And you're like, okay, great, that sounds like fun. That sounds like we're going to dig in here.

Sure. And I love that. I love that about him. I really, really do. Of course, you know, within the script, there are great stage directions. You know, Caleb takes chicken from the pot that lies on the table. Fantastic. Yeah, that's great.

let's go for it and and other things like that and then you bring your own stuff to it so yeah it's a combination you know i think that's that's also what the best directors in the world do the worst thing that you find the worst thing that one can find as an actor is you step on to set and a director's like all right here's what you're going to do you're going to stand there say that stand there say that and then you're going to leave and that's it your day's done and within that it's like well why am i here what's the point like i i can't give you any that you haven't already come up with in your head, you know, I want to serve your story, but equally at the same time, let's try and find some, it's trying to find some mistakes in

that. Yeah. Well, it doesn't let you play. You don't get a chance to play. You don't get a chance to explore and by, and you can tell there's so much. And the one particular thing, and I'm not, I don't want to spoil if people haven't seen it yet, but there's a fantastic scene with you and Kevin. And where like that, when it's just the two of you guys. And I can't even imagine. as everything, what you've just described, how much fun, A, that could have been, B, for me, I'm thinking of it like, somewhat intimidating, I'm sure, where you got the guy, it's, first of all, it's Kevin Costner. Second of all, it's his thing. You want to make sure you're doing the right thing. But I'm also sure because you're so locked into it, because you can tell me,

you're so locked into this role. It's like, as I mentioned to you off before we started, Josh Harwitz is a good friend of mine. I watched your interview with him, and you're just so open, you're so outgoing, you're so, in, I think what I really took away from that particular interview is how, I don't know, I was saying brave is the right word, but I also think how you are not afraid to just show exactly who you are and you bring certain things that have come with you in your past and things into your roles and you see this with this character. But all that said, this particular scene with working with Kevin and being in that with Kevin and without spoiling the scene itself,

can you tell me how that particular day was and how you approach that particular moment? You always hope for when you're making any art, whether it be music or film or painting or whatever it is, you always hope for these moments of electricity, these moments of magic, they're unscripted. They really are. They come from nowhere and you just have to be the vessel for them in that moment.

And we were very lucky. We had a lot in that particular scene with Kevin. They just kind of presented themselves and you got to grab them and go, all right, great. I see you. I feel you. I'm in. You mentioned fear and, you know, sort of wanting to do the best for Kevin. Yes, it's absolutely right.

Like, I do want to do the best for Kevin, but it's not out of fear. It's out of love. This man is so open and generous with his heart and with his life and with his stories, with his passion that is an actor or as a human being. He's our commanding officer in this scenario. I would follow him anyway. I'd follow that man into battle 100%. And yet, it's like, it's like,

playing sport with somebody who's better than you, but then also having somebody there to kind of pat you on the back and go, keep going. That scene is, it's so much fun. It's so varied and diverse in what's happening in it. I've been describing it like a rubber band that's been, you know,

it's being pulled and then released and then pulled and then released and then pulled to this point of great tension. And you think it's going to, is it going to snap or is it going to? And you just don't. know what's going to happen at that moment. It's classic Western cinema, but like, it's also just great storytelling. It's a good ping pong match too. It's a really, it really is. It really is. I'm sitting there watching that going, what is going to have? And I'm just, it was such a great chess match, really, between the two of you. And you can tell. You really can. It's great work, man. I'm very proud of the film, the performance. And I'm glad that I had an opportunity to show you.

it out. Thanks, brother. I'm really glad you said ping pong and chess rather than pickleball. I can't do the pickleball. You know, I ever even tried. My aunt who was like 72 years old, every time I'm at a,

at a dinner, you got to play pickleball now. You got to play pickleball. I'm, I hurt my, I hurt my back parallel parking. I'm not doing that. There's no chance.

That's no chance. Have you tried the pickleball? Listen, you're on at 72 years old is perfectly entitled to be playing pickleball but I think you know if you're at a certain age pick up a tennis racket

you want to play ping pong don't bring it on my tennis court I don't even know I think people just make things up and because of social media everything too you catch one thing and everything goes viral I mean I was just talking to my wife this morning it's like the things that go viral now Jamie I can't I don't know like this

Haktoo girl that's not like is everywhere She's everywhere. She's everywhere. You can't scroll on Instagram. I'm trying to find things about Bluey for my six-year-old, and I got the Hoctoeie girl popping up. That's terrifying. Terrible.

Terrible. Terrible. Anyway, so how do you do? I got to ask you because when it comes to with social media, with things and that come out there, and do you find yourself, I know the answer. I know the answer is obviously, yes. When you have to do things like this and you're talking, you've got to protect everything that you're saying. and you don't want things to be blown out of context. How do you feel about social media in general?

How do you feel about, like, how you navigate it with what you do? That's a really interesting question. I mean, I've had a, you know, an interesting relationship with social media. And I think that that comes with just personal growth as well. There was a period of time where I was like, you know, I'm just like, I'm not interested in presenting any part of my life because actually at the moment I don't feel like my life is in any way something that I want to be sharing. I need to figure some shit out.

And I think, you know, there is a flip side to that, which is obviously nowadays, people are like, well, you know, share everything and life is varied and beautiful. And I agree. I totally agree. Life is varied. It is beautiful. It's important that we have a discussion surrounding things that are difficult and perhaps not as shiny as we would, you know, hope the world's to be all the time.

But how do I navigate it? I think I just go with gut. Like I just kind of, I'm like, I'm not trying to, I'm not trying to be anything other than myself on there. That's for sure. It can be a very funny place. I quite enjoy the hilarity of it sometimes. The kind of chaos of it and the carnage of it is quite enjoyable.

Yeah. But I imagine that for younger kids, you know, I'm 35. I can definitely imagine that for younger kids, that's a pretty weird world. And everybody's judged against everybody else. And God knows when I was younger, before social media became what it is now, I felt like I was judging myself all the time and pitting myself against other people anyway. I remember speaking to my long-suffering UK agent when I was probably about 20 and being like, well, you know, by the time the Beatles were whatever, you know, they'd made Abby Ross.

road and by the time this person was my age, they'd made this. And he said to me, love, you know, you're not that, you know, you, you're going to have your own path. You're going to have your journey. Which at the time, I was like, oh, fuck you. That doesn't help you all. That's not the answer I wanted. You're supposed to tell me that's going to happen tomorrow. Exactly. But he's right, you know, he's, he was absolutely right. So yeah, my relationship with it is, is I just kind of take it at face value and I'm like, this can be fun. And, you know, I'm an independent. artist and my music as well. It's a fantastic tool to be able to present the work that I do.

And the art, and as you were saying, the movies that I do, there's a level of personal connection that I have to everything that I want to be putting out. And in that, you know, you are discovering me. So it's not like I have to kind of go out there and say anything else. Right. Because what you're getting is you're getting a level of authenticity with everything that I put out. social media is just the tool to sort of say, hey, this is out there. You want to kind of discover more about what it means for me to be a human being.

There you go. I couldn't agree with you more. I mean, for the same thing, I mean, look, there's parts of it for especially for what you do, for what I do. We need social media for our business as well. And one of the things that I always tell people, people I feel can get themselves in trouble too much because they feel too comfortable with it. They pick up their phone.

They go, you know what, I feel like saying this right now. It doesn't matter who I offend. And you're like, well, no, that's probably not the best option right now. And now there's a backlash of it. And here's the hurricane that you just created. I say, for me, what I like to do in this business is post and run. It's just post and run. It's like you say you want to, is there something important you want to say you want to put it out there?

If you're promoting your work, you said promoting your music, promoting this interview, whatever it might be, that's how we use it. But what I will say is something that you did. And again, to reference our mutual friend Josh Horowitz, is that. when you posted, my brother passed away in 2018. I lost my brother and it was, you know, it was, there was a lot mental health-wise, things that happened. And I, and that's why I mentioned up top with you that I thought it was very brave and said the way that you're very open about your past struggles and how you use that in your roles, but also how you did use it in social

media. And one of the reasons I'm bringing that up in the social media is because you spoke about because I think when people, especially after the run you're having right now, you know, people are looking, there are people who are looking to you for advice. They're looking for you. And I think that's a very important way to use social media. When you made that particular post about how you've been sober and you've been able to get your life in a position where you're happy about it, did you know, was there any hesitancy of putting it out there on social media? It's like, no, this is something absolutely that I need to do.

Yeah, it was never any hesitancy. I've been quite vocal throughout my career about mental health and my sobriety. It took me a long time to feel comfortable enough to kind of express it in a very definitive way. You know, with my band that I used to play, and our whole record was made around my getting sober. and dealing with a lot of my unprocessed emotions within that. And how I would describe that at the time was I would say, well, I went through a very important change in my life. And it's felt like kind of just dipping my toe, you know,

just more and more so submerging myself and being like, all right, well, this is my story now. Sure. And I'm no stranger like, yourself to loss due to mental illness or due to addiction. And particularly with men, you know, I grow up in England or grew up in England. I grow up. I still do grow up every now.

Of course, you never left. You never really left. I grew up in England where the statistics are, you know, between the ages of I think it's 18 and 45. The most likely cause of death for men is suicide. And I work with a charity called Calm, the campaign against living miserably, which is predominantly a men's mental health charity

about bringing forward the discussion surrounding mental health. And so it's both something I understand on a personal level for me and also my friendship group as well. And, you know, I mean, without kind of getting too deep into it, it's sad. But like, I think the overall feeling I'm, I get left with when I lose somebody close through something like that is I just wish I'd fucking known. I just wish I had known.

And I don't know what that looks like. I don't know what that means for the individual. I don't know if it's whether or not they just needed to feel comfortable enough to say it or whatever. But having the discussion surrounding things like that opens the space up for people, I hope to feel confident and comfortable enough to be able to say it and for us all to help each other. I think, you know, I've said this recently in another interview. I often need other people more than other people. And whether or not that's my Britishness coming through.

But I do. I need to hear other people's stories. I need to be able to identify. It's the same thing we find in cinema. It's what we're looking for. We're looking for that connection where we're looking at somebody and going, that's me.

I can relate to that. And I need to hear other people talking about things so that I know I'm not the only one that's completely fucked. Right. Of course. Of course. Yeah.

No, I mean, it's, well, no, a lot of that hits home, man, to be honest with you, because the same thing. It's like, what could I have done? What could I have said? I wish I knew more. I mean, like, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it has, be able to say it to it makes it's, it had, you had that feeling of, oh, some, there's, I'm not the only person that goes through this.

I'm not the only person that feels this particular way. And that's why I brought up the emphasis of how I think it's so important that when you did that. So for people who, there who's seen in it and for again people of me who can relate to it i thank you for that post because and i know that it's it's one of those things where it is it it is you said there was no hesitation to it but it is it's incredibly brave the fact that what you were able to do it's it's very admirable so uh i just wanted to thank you thanks brother i appreciate that

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That is join B-I-L-T dot com slash big thing. Let's move on to something that I wanted to, I had to bring this up to you because last night, it's Sunday night and every night on this channel, I am watching House of the Dragon. I'm watching Game of Thrones. You've got a, you've got an interesting history with Game of Thrones.

I do. You do. You're cast in the pilot and then there's scheduling issues. You can't, you're not able to do it when they come back to it. And then you get cast in the prequel in 2019.

And it's like the big prequel is a incredible cast and then it doesn't, it doesn't wind up happening. What and when? What's my curse? But that's what I was going to say. Is it really a curse? So because, and I think, and you can correct me if I'm wrong here, but at 2019, you're cast in that.

If that goes through, do you do stranger things? Right. Right. So maybe it wasn't. So at the time, as you were saying before with the Beatles thing, you're saying with you're like, oh, this is, they had this. They did that. And take it easy.

Take it easy. And at the same time, I'm sure you thought it was a curse. What the fuck? I have this thing. I'm in Game of Thrones. I'm going to be in Game of Thrones again. And now I'm not. And then you become one of the biggest villains and one of the best characters in television.

So two questions there with that. Speak on that. What we just talked about, about how your process of did you go through all that? And then the other is we have to see in Game of Thrones eventually, right? Oh man, I mean, look, we can condense that into a very short answer, which is everything does happen for a reason. Of course, you know, of course, whenever, whether it be an audition or something you make, you don't get it or it doesn't go, I would be remiss and I would be lying if I didn't say there

is a personal side of you that or me, I would say that it was probably the same for any actor that feels like oh fuck god damn it like i really wanted this and i wanted this to work but you don't know what's around the corner and i think i said something like that when i spoke about this before you just don't know what's around the corner you really really don't um and uh and you know life happens in a very mysterious and beautiful way and you just kind of have to roll with it sometimes um so that's my kind of a both feeling and opinion on that. And do we have to see me in Game of Thrones sometimes?

I don't know. Third time's a charm. I'm hoping. But do you keep open relationships with those guys? I mean, have you spoken to them at all? Like, is there any of like, hey, listen, we know it didn't work out, but we really want you in Westrose, man. Like, is that, does this stuff, does that kind of conversation happen? I haven't.

I mean, I, you know, it's funny. I had a great, I had a really good relationship with the David's on, on that, on that first, that first season. and when I went in and did the pilot, you know, so much so that actually when they, you know, like we were saying, talking about the scheduling issues, when they did go to make the show, I believe it was them that reached out and said, you know, we really want him to be a part of this. And by that point, you know, we kind of already, I think life had happened and we already committed to working with stars, I think, at that point. You know, as far as kind of how that has progressed and changed, you know, it's its own

world and its own machine. I get to see the wonderful Matt Smith every now and again. I don't know how much weight matters at my has in the casting call. So, yeah, but like, you know, of course, I think it's one of those things where if it's right and look, I'm so glad House of the Dragon is working the way that it is. And I'm so glad that the fans are feeling honored by that by that show because it deserves it. It really, really does. And that world is really important. So, yeah, I mean, you know, I'm an actor.

I'm a complete whore. I'll take it. When it comes, when it comes at you. You're going to get it. Haktua. So when, but, okay, so let's, so we, let's stay there then because you, you, that doesn't happen. And then more things start to come your way. We get hit with all this, the pandemic. You get, you know, what the hell is going to go, go, is going to wind up going down.

And then Stranger Things arrives. How does that all come to play? Like, do you know, because, and I want to preface this to the audience that's watching this, too. If you haven't watched Stranger Things, season four, I got to dive into some spoilers here, so you've been warned. There you go. Because, again, I mentioned my 12-year-old. She is obsessed with the show.

I'm obsessed with the show, but she just got into it recently. And I told her that I was talking to you, and Jamie, this is the face. Oh, bless her soul. She was like, are you really? And she thought you were coming in. She's like, can I come in? I go, it's not in the studio, honey. So, but she was, she was, and everybody else who's watching it, so invested.

And I'll tell you, and I said this, and you can go back and watch footage of it, not saying it, because you're sitting here. Season four is the best season at all. It's the best. I love one, but four is the best. And what is it about that character? Because you said some things, man, that when I, in certain interviews that I think you just nailed it in the way that, like, this guy has just been tortured throughout his life and what he is. And the way that you relate to him, you particularly, is why that character works. When you hear you speak about him.

So let's dive into this real quick. Let's talk about learning about this role, thinking, you know, okay, this is the way this reads on the page. I really want this role. And now you get it. Tell me about, tell me about all of it. I got to hear about you and Vecna. Got to hear about it. Yeah.

So it was around Christmas of 2019 before, um, before the world exploded. Yeah. And, and I was, I was out here. I was making some music with my brother, and I got a phone call saying, Carmen Cuba would like to, would like you to tape for Stranger Things. And of course, I said, fucking drop everything. Let's go.

My brother was with me. So we went back to my place in downtown Los Angeles. and I was given, I was given sides from Hellraiser and from Primal Fear. Oh, yeah. And I watched, I'd actually seen Hellraiser before, but as far as I remember, I don't think I'd, I don't think I'd ever seen Primal Fear at that point, which is, you know, which is a sort of movie lover is sacrilegious to say, but there you go, you get honesty.

And so, again, you know, I just kind of did my, thing with it and we taped and we sent it off and I'm getting on a plane for Christmas back home to see my folks and again Scott Melrose who sat with me in this room right here is on my right calls me and he says they really liked it now they want you to try some sides from the shop. Yeah. All right. Again, we literally like get through the door and of my parents house. I'm like, hi, yeah, nice to see you again. Bye. Don't fucking talk to me. I got work to do. Love you. And so we taped it. And then of course, it's Christmas. And I have no idea who this character is at this point. I figure that, you know, I'm a fan of the show,

but I figure there's some sort of darkness to this character just through what I'm saying and through what I've been presented, but I don't know the name of the character. The original name of the character on the page. And I think I'm all right to say this now because I'm working on season five and I don't think it means anything was was ashy. We don't know why. We don't know where that came from. It just was a thing. And then of course, Christmas happens. So everybody is away. Sure. Yeah. It was away for like a good three weeks. Actors are like notoriously bad. I mean, I'm notoriously bad, but I think all actors are pretty notoriously bad at like when we don't hear feedback, it hurts. A hundred percent.

Of course. It's just, yeah, like, they didn't like it. It's like, no, the person, they're in the Bahamas right now. They're not thinking about it. Yeah. There's an amazing, there's like an amazing guy on Instagram. He's a comedian kind of dude. And he does this thing where he's like pretending, he's an actor and he's calling his agent. He's just sort of calling for a chat just to kind of check in. And then he goes, any news? No, no, I didn't think so. No, that's fine, which I just can relate to 100%. I've managed to dial that part of me. down now. And so that's what you were doing during all of Christmas, just trying to like just waiting, waiting, waiting, so it takes you about what, how long before you find out? It's about, well, so the story continues. Okay. So,

it's about, probably second week of January. Scott calls me back up and he's like, all right, Duff is now wanting to meet you. Get back to L.A. I was like, all right, I'm on it. Like, we book a plane, I get on the plane, I come back to L.A. I've got maybe three or four days,

before meeting Matt and Ross. And in this period of time, I'm like, something in me is like, all right, there's more to be had here. There's more to be had. What can I do? So I start printing out pictures. I start printing out all these pictures of the upside down, of the characters, the world, and then I start to build on that.

I'm like, well, what have I been given? I've been given Hellraiser. I've been giving primal fear. So I know that there's something going on here. What are the other kind of characters that I like from this world? What can I do here? So I start to build more around that. And eventually, after two days, I step back from my wall.

there's this mural of darkness. And I'm like, all right, that feels great. Pull it all off, put it into a folder, jump in a car, go meet Matt and Ross. And I say very little. I say very, very little. By this point, I figure that they, I figure now, but I didn't know at the time, I figured they had been like, all right, this is our guy. We just kind of need to, you know, want to meet him.

I was like, they just want to meet me to make sure that I'm not completely insane. and so I go and I meet with them and at the end of it you know they've been speaking and they go we'd love to show you something can we show you something I said absolutely and they come back with these 3D renderings of Vecna and they're like this is this is who we want you to be are you comfortable being in makeup for eight hours I was like yes of course I'm comfortable being in makeup for eight hours I was like can I show you something

and pull up my folder you know like a kid that's done his homework and I start showing them these things and they're like, have you read the script? I was like, I've literally seen what you've given me and that's it. And they're like, this is perfect. This is exactly what we want.

So we left the meeting and then, you know, get a phone call saying it's on, it's game on. And then the pandemic is. You get to do the read through. You get to do the table read. And I'm sat behind Millie. Bobby Brown and Wilona comes up and introduces her. And we do the table read.

Millie's there and I'm doing the stuff as Henry. And she just turns around and looks at me as I'm doing Henry. And I'm like, there's so much trust here. There's so much love. This kid is so open and so ready to receive. This is going to be absolute fire. I just feel nothing but good shit here. Then the world shuts down.

So I have April, May, June, July, August, September, October, seven months. Seven months, like we all did, of being locked down in our houses, but I knew I had something I was going to. And I was given this blessing of time. And within that, what I did is I just fully submerged myself and immersed myself in Matt and Ross's brain and in their souls and went back and looked at all of the things that I know the show takes and all of the things that I love as well and figure, all right, well, what can I, what can I pull that I really like?

And what do I know that they like? Okay, well, they gave me a help raise. All right, well, we love that. What about Freddie Kruger? Oh, yeah, it's a bit of Freddie Kruger there. Or what about, I don't know, Stephen King, just in general? What can we pull from that? And the thing, you know, all these great, all these great movies.

And so we get to October and we get to do the test. And in this time, I've been able to kind of try on the suit as it's being developed and whatever. Anyway, we get to the shooting test in sort of October, November. I've not done the voice in front of anybody. This is all stuff I've been doing at home. And again, magic moment, right? Just kind of open your mouth and hope for the best. Yeah, yeah.

But it worked. It worked. And Matt and Ross were ecstatic. And yeah, and I'm just so lucky and so grateful to be a part of that. And then, you know, you asked me about the psyche of Henry and the psyche of this character. Again, this idea of resentment, again, this idea of being contained of having the person beat out of you. And I've now been fortunate enough to go and see the play in London. I was going to ask you about it.

Yeah. Yeah, so that continues. You know, you get to find out more about Henry. You get to find out more about his family. You get to find out more about his relationships. Well, let me ask you that because the first shadow play, which is you saw it in London, right? Yeah. Okay.

So, and you said that that helped you understand some things about your character for the final season. Do you think that it is important for viewers to have seen that play at all? Or do you think that there's things inside of the play that changed your approach to playing the character going into this new season? No, I don't think there's anything that's changed my approach from watching it. I think what it has helped me do is, almost like sort of confirmation bias in some way kind of have a lot of questions that I had asked myself

and also answered myself, but have them confirmed and be like, all right, so where I was at with that is right. That's what they were thinking, even though we didn't have the discussion about it. There are certainly things in the play

that if you're a super fan and you're a fan. Look, if you're just a fan of the show or you want to go and see an amazing stage production, yeah, go, see it. Absolutely. If you're a super fan, you've got so many Easter eggs in there,

you've got the opportunity to mine for gold. There is a lot of really, really interesting stuff going on in there. And those are some of the things that I was most excited about when watching the show. I was like, oh, okay, cool. I'll take that, and I'm going to start asking questions about that. But as far as going back to, I just want to say, as far as going back to like my approach, I'll always fight for the characters that I believe and I'll always fight for them because I fall in love with them.

That's how we work. That's how we do things. And so, you know, there are definitely things that I will continue to always fight for for Henry. And I do feel for him. And I say it when I'm at work now, I will look at things and I go, man, I just feel sorry for this kid. I just really, really do. I feel sorry for this guy. And I hope that, and I figure from what conversations I've had with people,

that that's what people can relate to with him as well. That's why people like him. Well, yeah. Yeah, he's tortured. I mean, you can tell there's things, there's things about what he's got to go through and everything with his family and the idea of it. And even watching it back with my daughter, and there's that scene where he's legit, you know, really trying to help all of it.

And he's trying to give her, he's, you know, he's still using things for himself and knowing, using her his escape. But I think he's still giving her bits and pieces. And the idea in that and what he, you know, he seeds, I feel, and you can tell me if I'm wrong, but he feels, he sees a bit of himself in scene 11. And it is like the exact opposite, really, of where she goes to where he goes and how they use their abilities. but you said the thing about the fact that when she banishes him and puts them out there you're like what a shitty thing to do yeah one one crap thing after another for the poor guy no wonder he's so pissed right he's pissed but um you know do you pay attention to these like the the fan theories and stuff too or do you try not to not to do that as you lead into season five

do you ever kind of look in the internet look at those things um yeah i do i mean i'd be lying if i said that I didn't. And I think that when you join something like that is the same thing I actually weirdly going back to something that we've spoken about before had with Thrones, you know, figuring out what people think. And it helps you to kind of form your own opinion. There are certainly some things that I read where I'm like, no, I don't know about that. But there are other things where I read. I'm like, oh, no, maybe. And where does that take my brain? Where can, where can I go with that? You know, there was a great theory. I think it was in season four where we'd heard

we'd heard the clock chime in season one and we'd seen a shadow but we didn't know what it was we just kind of assumed it was a demigorbid I don't know we hear a clock chime you hear a clock chime in season four that means Vecna's about

I love that I love that he's and then 11 obviously says it was you it was always you right it's amazing how it's you you got like the Vader role man It's so sick. Got like that video.

So let's talk about cremone. So it's a body wash that I just got introduced to, not too long ago, but I love it and wine. I've been working hard. And when I get in and it's been hot. It's been hot. I'm stink like an alley cat. But I want to just go home. I want to take a shower.

I want to relax. And I really like to just enjoy it and say, oh, I feel good. I feel clean when I, my wife was like, what are you wearing? Is it a new cologne? I didn't buy any new cologne. I said, no, it's this new body wash that I got from Cremma. You want to elevate and you want to enhance your hygiene routine with Cremont body wash. It combines a rich lathering and hydrating formula with meticulously balanced, multi-layered

fragrances for a superior shower experience. You really do just feel wonderful. Get that regular shower, it makes it feel like a luxury experience. You get the bourbon vanilla body wash. right away after stinking up the joint. I was like, oh, I smell good. They have a new bourbon vanilla men's body wash, which is great, and it's worth trying out.

It's like you never tried it with the scent. You'll step out of the shower, and you're going to feel like a new man, I promise you. Yeah, it's really good. And what makes it different is that it's got a distinct layered scent, and it evolves as you wash. It's great. You can find the cremone men's body wash

in its new distinctive bourbon vanilla scent at Walmart. If you go to walmart.com, it's it. go to Walmart. Walmart or Walmart.com. So make sure you check it out. It's Cremont. They're the best. So you're going to love them. There's no way you're going to be able to elaborate too much on them, but I got to ask you. You talked about how this season is bonkers, the new one coming up. You said it was just absolutely crazy. And everybody talked about, oh, he says it's bonkers. It says it's crazy. Like, what, like, what, what, what can we expect? What, what kind of bonkers? What kind of crazy? Is Will getting a haircut from Vecna? Is that what we're going to

That's really funny. You know, I think it's important that I apologize to my Britishness with using the term bonkers there. You know, I think everybody's always looking for something to say about this show, right? But I think, you know, I walked on to season four and felt really a level of excitement of stepping up within myself. I remember walking onto that set, Vecner's layer, the mind layer. And just seeing the scale of this fucking thing and being like, Jesus Christ, I have to, I have to, like, I've got to grow here. And I've got to go grow quick. Like, there is no hiding in this set at all.

I've got to own this space. Same thing, actually, also with Horizon as well. But season five is no different. It's no different. It's a, there's a, there's a growing. And that's what I mean by Mad and Bonkers is it's just bigger, more expansive, just. just more, more, more, more, more. And it's, it is wild.

It is wild. I'll double down on that. Fuck it. It's wild. Good. I'm excited to see you, man. I'm also excited to pick up on something that you said earlier is that you're, you know, when you're talking about how you hadn't seen Primal Fear and that as a movie

buff, you're like, oh, I can't believe it. I can't believe it. But so you're big, are you a big movie guy? In general, you're movie or TV? A movie. No, yeah, definitely movies. I mean, don't get me wrong. I love TV, but movies particularly.

And it's funny, like in my older age, you know, there are certain films I just like continually go back to now. Like which ones? Which ones? I need to expand. Which ones? Which ones do you go back to? I will always go back to Lord of the Rings.

It's just like a huge comfort film for me, all three of them. I think are vitally important. I'm not there, the Bob Dylan movie. I'll always go back. too at well where we got the Oscar for best supporting role. What else do I go back to God? I'd have to go through my sort of Apple TV or any other streaming service, by the way. Yeah, but Jamie, I feel like you kind of manifest things to happen without even realize.

Because you were a big Tim Burton guy kind of growing up, right? Oh, yeah. And then you get, and then you get Tuts for your first one. And so when you talk about Lord of the Rings, are you paying attention? or Peter Jackson's producing the new one and the Nanny Circus is directing it. Do you go, hey, when we have free time, let's make a phone call.

Or do you, or you just kind of wait and you see, you know, if it happens, it happens. I'm very much that guy. I'm waiting. I wait to see if it happens, it happens. I have discussions about, you know, with the people that I love and I work with the, you know, about the things that I do love.

And but I am very much that kind of guy where it's like, if it happens, it happens. And I'm a huge fan of Mifford Clark. I absolutely adored St. Maud. I think she is just, I think she's the tits. I really do. And to see her in that show is awesome. Yeah, yeah, I mean, look, I'd love to go into that world.

I was out in New Zealand a year or so ago. And of course, you know, drove out to Rotorua and on the way, you know, visited Hobarton, of course, absolutely. But no, I, you know, again, you talk about kind of this idea of manifestation. Look, for Horizon, I'd finish season four, and I'd spend so much time in Georgia. And I love, I love the South. I just love the South. I love the music of the South.

You know, I love New Orleans. I love Memphis, Nashville, Atlanta. Like, just there's something about this place that just has something going on for me. And, of course, I soaked that up. And I got back home and I did this cover of run on, you know, which is originally recorded by Odetta and then obviously made famous by Johnny Cash. We shoot the video and I'm carrying this fucking nine foot crucifix up a hill, you know, and then setting myself on fire. But there's a Western thing going on with that, right? It's like, cut to four months later.

I'm on a flipping Zoom call with Kevin Carson, you're talking about a Western. And it's pretty, it's pretty nuts. So just let life happen, let the beauty happen and follow, follow your heart. That's what I do. Yeah. Well, I'll tell you from those stories alone, I want to go to Vegas with you. That depends. That depends on who I'm with and how I feel.

Yeah. Last time I was there, I was with John Beavers who actually, you know, if I ran into Johnny. How tall is that guy, by the way, John, but I want to hear your story. He's, because you're my height. You're like six feet. He looks, he's giant that guy. He's massively intimidated. dating. He's about six foot four

and he's very handsome and and I loathe him for all of them. But you guys, and to play and to bring it back to horizon, the chemistry between you two, like I said, I've got when you have that sibling rivalry and certain things and there's certain things that your brother

if I could just tell you what I really feel and you, why are you getting in my way? And there's this back and forth you guys have and it was really, had you guys met before? No, no, wow. We never met. And, but we instantly trusted each other. You know, Johnny's got this great power, but also this really open heart and open love.

And I, we kind of met each other there. We were like, all right, let's meet at that spot. That feels good for us. Okay. So you go to Vegas with him? I got, no, well, no, I'm in Vegas with my, with my girlfriend. And, you know, like, we're at the, we're at the roulette table. And I see this tall, really handsome guy out of the corner of my eye.

Jess is looking at me. She's like, what's up? And I'm like, I think that's John fucking Vivas. I think that's my brother. She's like, no way. I'm like, no, that's my fucking brother. Like, oh, my God. We call him over and we end up spending the night together and gambling. And he's teaching Jess, you know, and I'm just enjoying their company. So, yeah, no, Vegas can be good for me, but Vegas can also be bad for me, too. Get me there for a night and I'm good any longer.

That should be the cardinal rule for anybody. That's the cardinal rule for anybody. Why don't I enjoy a show, what we're going to do? And you talked about with New Orleans, you talked about, I want to go into your music background also because all those spots you can tell to where is Kevin Costner's so passionate about. And, you know, obviously we are passionate about film and TV, but there's a particular thing with Kevin in the way that he's putting this together.

You seem to have that particular thing for music, right? And you've been playing music for very young age. And you started with violin, I believe? Yeah, yeah. God, you've done your research. Yeah, I started with the violin. I learned via Suzuki method. And I mean, you know, sort of young enough for me to kind of not remember the specific age,

if that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. And then moved on to piano and my voice. And then French horn, trumpet, trombone. And then I wanted to start playing rock music. My parents are both in the music industry and turn around to my mom. I was like, I want to play drums.

Can I get drum lessons? And she was like, absolutely not. If you want to learn a rock instrument, you got to do it yourself. I was like, all right, fine. I'm going to throw all my attention at this. So my next door neighbor had an old pearl drum kit, this black piece of crap and sounded awful, but I bought it off him for like 50 quid and set it up in my garage and just started to play. And then same thing with the guitar as well. You know, we were fortunate enough as my school where we had, you know, communal guitars that people could use. And I just spent all my time,

all my time in the music school learning how to play this thing. But yeah, yeah. So, I started very young and I love it. It's been great. You know, somebody asked me the other day, you know, what do I love more? And I love them both. I think when I'm making a film or making a TV show or making something that's going going to go on camera or doing a stage play, I will write music. But the music I will be writing will just kind of fit in with that world just because

I'm kind of feeling it. But then when I'm not working on a movie or not working on a play or not working on a TV show, I have something creative that I can fall back into that fulfills me and that fuels me. And that is a real blessing to have because otherwise I think I'd go completely insane. I mean, I'm insane

enough, but I'd go like even more so. Well, I get it. I mean, so for a very long time, my career was stand-up comedy. You know, it was with a comedy store and being up there. And there's an energy that you have and there's a thing that you do that you kind of bring in anything that you

are doing, right? And so when you're on, I'm sure that you can relate to certain ways that when you're performing this, you can relate to things that you're doing in performance to music that others can't do on set, because there's a certain, like, kind of rhythm. And I, like I said, with manifestation and all those things, I'm very much into that stuff, but I can feel like energy, I can feel those types of things. And I feel like with music, it's like, and I think music's the most underrated thing in film. I think music's the most underrated thing in, in television. I think it's what, I think people don't realize it because especially when a really good piece of music, it's,

music is there. You don't even realize it's there and it's emotionally just taking you and it's presenting you. And it's bringing things out of you that you can't even fathom. So I'm sure as a musician, all of that kind of comes into play when you do. Because I'll be honest, we talked about this scene with concert. That to me seemed like a musical piece. Yeah, I mean, two things I want to say on that.

I think, you know, this idea of music, I'm a huge fan of Nick Cave. and I love the schoolwork that he does, you know. And I love his film work that he's done with Andrew Dominic as well, you know, how Andrew has been able to capture Nick's life and present it in, I think it's three or four different ways now. But the music that Nick created for, you know, for a movie, like The Assassination of Jesse James, it just, like you say, it just elevates pieces to these great heights.

And then thank you for saying that, you know, about kind of, musicality in general i i'd never really considered it before and i i worked with the director recently who said you have such a wonderful musical ear for the way the words come off the page and i was like honestly i mean you know 95 percent if that is the words better be fucking good i can't i can't sing it if it ain't good right um but but there is that sensibility of of being able to inject rhythm and tone and nuance and, you know, crescendo followed by diminuendo, you know, do you play a legato or you soto or, you know, or do you just go full forte from the word go? And yeah, I mean, I'm fortunate enough that clearly my brain has soaked all of that up over

over a duration of time and it does definitely lend itself, lend itself to performances. And, you know, going back to Horizon and that scene with Kevin, you know, I mean, Kevin's also a musician. We get it. You know, we, we totally get it. And it's like, it's great that you're talking about this. It's like when you're in a room with a band, you know, you're jamming. Yeah. You play, you play off each other.

You just, you feel it. Sometimes, sometimes it doesn't work. So it doesn't work. It's like, yeah, it's like, it's in anything, in music, and, like, improv and any of those things. And it's just, it's not viving. And then you have someone that you're like, whoa, that is just the rhythm I didn't see coming. And you're able to, and, and use.

thought of a lyric at that point in the middle of it. I can remember, as I mentioned with stand-up comedy, there are certain times, I have the set and I have these things, but the energy in the crowd, if I'm vibing with it, I'm laughing, like, oh, they just gave me something through that energy to say, there, and then you hit it. And it's the same thing in a back and forth when you're having a conversation. Even the conversation that we had here today that we're talking about, there were certainly, you didn't, we had never met before, but like, okay, I'm comfortable talking to you, you're comfortable talking to me.

And it's just, we just, boom, boom, boom, we can just say things. that you have a rhythm. Otherwise, it's just going to be a long hour. So, but yeah, so I know you have a long day and you're going to be doing more of this. So I wanted to ask you just a couple more things before we let you go here. And that's when it comes to, now you, this movie, major accomplishment, working with Costner, you got season five coming up, strength, your things. there are

as a movie fan there are certain things that you want to do are there things inside of like because you've mentioned Lord of the Rings you've talked about that there's there's Marvel out there

there's Star Wars out there there's D.C. out there. There's other things outside of that. There's working with Crossezi. There's working with Nolan. There's so many major goals that I just thought of. Now, what do you

do you think of if there's one thing that I can really want to do? Is there something in particular that you can say because there's certain things you're like, I'm not fucking telling you, dude. I can tell you, maybe off, maybe off air

one day, but what is it that you can say that you go? You know what? I love to check that box. Look, I'll be deadly honest with you. At the moment, you know, I'm in love with this world. I really am in love with this world.

And sometimes, we was talking yesterday, an interview was talking about this idea of glamour. And I was thinking about this whilst I was getting ready this morning. I think my response to that was I had the moment I have no interest in fucking glamour whatsoever like the dirtier the better for me right yeah and and like I do I I kind of stand by that like I really do I want to I want to tell great stories I want to figure out more about what it means to be a human being um for all of us in our own individual lives And if I get to do that, then I'm a lucky man.

Of course, if Martin Scorsese calls, you're not going to say no. But I'm just really focused on wanting to tell really, really great stories at the moment. And to have these great moments of catharsis, to have these great moments of explosion and to be in an environment to be free enough to do that. That's what I want. That's what I strive for. to play great music with great musicians in both the acting world and the music world. Yeah, I just hope for more of these moments of magic.

That's all I hope for. And within that, all I do within that is just so deep gratitude for what I have right here and right now. And I got home last night and with the press conference here as well today, I just feel nothing but an immense sense of love and gratitude. gratitude and and pride for Kevin, deep pride for Kevin. I just focus on that and hope, hope that one day I'll get another job at some point. I feel, I feel like you're going to be okay, man. So anyway, I wanted to really thank you for joining me here today. You should be very proud of the, a performance, the film. I like being in the world just like you did. And it was a

pleasure to see your performance. It was a real pleasure to be able to sit down and talk to you for an hour. Thanks for being so open and kind. And look, well, hopefully we'll do it again. And congratulations on everything. And we'll see you at season five, man, right around the corner. I'll be there. Thank you so much again, man. This was a real pleasure. And I appreciate all the hard work that you did coming into this as well. So thank you. Thank you, Jamie. All right. How cool is that dude? Right? It's just a really open, genuine dude. I root for people like that, man. I really do. And he was, is still, just sitting there, as I said in the interview, I'd never met him before.

And we just, two people having a conversation. And you got to listen to people. You got to bounce back and forth. We're talking about that rhythm that was going on. I feel like that was there. And like I said, I root for him. Go and check out his performance in this movie, Horizon, especially if you like Westerns. And I said it to my out of the theater reaction.

very much plays to me like a miniseries. And that you want to, part two is coming out in August. And they sent like this little teaser, what's going on part two? I was like, how does it all end? I don't know. And then obviously all the stuff he gave us with Stranger Things and looking forward at season five

and how that's going to play, that dude's got to be in Game of Thrones. You got to get him in Game of Thrones. You have to. He's perfect for it, whether it's House of the Dragon or whatever it's going to be. All the new stuff that they're going to do, you've got to put him in it.

Anyway, what did you think of the, interview. I hope you liked it. Put your comments in there. It helps the algorithm. It also helps get people like Jamie on the show because the more people that see it, the more the reps go, well, what's this show? Oh, that was a nice conversation that Jamie had with that dude. What's this? Let's get them on that show. That's how it happens. So if you comment and you click like and I'm going to put some clips from this interview, share those. That's what helps the channel out. And subscribing. obviously helps the channel out. So hopefully if you found the channel,

you've subscribed to see more interviews like this. We've got some really great interviews lined up. I always jinx myself when I do this because it always falls through. I got a good guess. I'm not going to jinx myself. I have really good guests lined up. I have good guess.

So I'm excited to tell you guys all about it. But thank you for joining me here. We're available on Apple. We're available on Spotify. Everywhere Podcasts are found. Thank you for joining us here today. Thank you to our wonderful sponsors. if you want to help out the show, get one of our sponsors, get something for yourself.

It really, really helps the cause. Thank you. Appreciate it. Talk to you later.