The Kristian Harloff Show - Kathleen Kennedy Officially Stepping Down From Lucasfilm!

Episode Date: January 16, 2026

Kathleen Kennedy is officially stepping down from Lucasfilm, and today on The Kristian Harloff Show we break down what this means for the future of Star Wars, Lucasfilm leadership, and the franchise as a whole. From the official exit to Kennedy's own comments on the current status of multiple Star Wars projects, this is a major turning point for one of the most iconic brands in pop culture. We also discuss Kennedy's reflections on the toxic side of fandom, her thoughts on what went wrong with Solo, and how audience expectations and studio decision-making have evolved over the years. What projects are still moving forward? What might be reworked or shelved? And what does this leadership change signal for the next era of Star Wars films and series? In addition, we pivot to DC Studios news as James Gunn responds to reports that The Brave and the Bold could be targeting a 2028 release date, and confirms that the Mister Miracle animated series is officially part of the DCU. Big leadership shifts, franchise strategy updates, and major universe-building conversations all collide in today's episode. Join Kristian and the panel as they analyze the implications, speculate on what comes next, and put these developments into context for both Star Wars and DC fans. SPONSORS: FACTOR: Head to https://www.factormeals.com/kristian50off and use code kristian50off to get 50% off your first Factor box PLUS free breakfast for 1 year. Make healthier eating easy with Factor. TRADE COFFEE: Get 50% off 1 month of Trade at https://www.drinktrade.com/KRISTIAN RUGIET: For a limited time only, head to https://www.Rugiet.com/KRISTIAN to get 15% off your order.

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So it looks like those rumors, reports were pretty true. Kathleen Kennedy, after years at Lucasville, is stepping down. The replacements have been named. What does it mean? She gave an exit interview. We'll talk about that. I know it's supposed to be capes and cows, but this story is, it's too big. The show is going to really get out of your chair.

No one needs you. it's going to all be about what is happening over at Lucasville. What does it mean? Is it a good thing? Is it a bad thing? Too hard to tell. We're going to find out it's myself, Chris Carr, Winston A. Marshall. Let's do it.

Welcome back to the show. Ladies and gentlemen, it's Friday, capes and cowsish today. But it is a, I guess, a, Seth Council type of show. because it's going to be all about Lucasfilm, Star Wars, and all that. So joining me on the show today is one Winston A. Marshall and the one, the only, Chris. Chris, you look gorgeous today. Thank you. But people don't call me Chris.

I call me Christian. Oh, you look fine. You look a little grainy, actually. Yeah, that's fine. I still appreciate that because I, I still appreciate that because I, I was very happy we started late because I've been editing since 6 a.m. So thank you very much. Yeah, we did indeed start late.

And one of the reasons why is because people have been when I was traveling, people were asking, they're going, hey, where's Game of Thrones? Where's Game of Thrones? Where's Game of Thrones? Well, one of the things that we were doing is Sam came in yesterday. We shot episode, season one, episode seven and eight, which is on the channel now. We shot nine and ten, which definitely got the reaction. people thought you're going to get in episode nine well you're going to get it and that's going to

release tomorrow on the channel and then we're going to get into a regular schedule she just came in today we shot episodes one and two of season two so that will come out on tuesday we're going to drop tuesday and friday will be game of throne so um so there you go and today when i was like i got to be on the i was going i wanted to be on the show regardless but then luke last night sent me this story and i was like well yeah we got it this is what we're going to cover because it's been it's been creeping up we knew it was going to happen so um let's get into the article itself because it's it's quite lengthy because kathleen kennedy gave a uh an exit interview so we're going to go through this holly reporter article and then we'll talk about that and so much more

about the potential future um the pros the cons all that and more so let's uh let's get it to and by the way So if you want to know, the goal right now is 112 by Steph Sabra. That's where Cap's and she knew. She knows that Capes has been the formidable. So let's get into the. All right. So if we are starting, we're going to start with the Hollywood Reporter itself, which it is now official that Star Wars is getting new leadership.

Kathleen Kennedy is officially stepping down. And we are getting both Dave Faloni and Lewin Brennan, who are now taking over at Lucasfilm. The change in leadership may mean a new hope for the story franchise or could be attack of the clones by giving fans more of the same. So let's see. After 14 years, guiding Star Wars into the modern era through all its ups and downs, Kathleen Kennedy is stepping down as the president of Lucasfilm. Her departure from the company, which is effective this week, has long been expected, but still marks a seismic shift for, one of the biggest brands in Hollywood. So someone's ruffling trash, so I'm going to do that instead.

So perfect. Thank you for who is doing that. Star Wars 14 years of modern era. It's ups and downs. Kathleen Kennedy is stepping down as the president of Lucasfilm, her departure from the company, which is affected this week. It's been long expected, but still marks a seismic shift for one of the biggest brands in Hollywood. Kennedy had also spent decades producing movies such as Indiana,

and Jones in ET when she joined Lucasfilm in 2012, taking on the role of co-chair alongside Star Wars creator George Lucas. She was elevated to sole head of the company just a few months later after Disney paid $4 billion for the brands after Lucas Exeter. Kennedy is not departing the galaxy far, far away immediately. As part of her exit, she will continue on as producer of the next two Lucas films, The Mandalorian and Grugoo. Coming May 22nd, 2007 Starfighter, she will also pursue other sides outside Lucasfilm as an independent producer. In her wake-up, executive VP and chief creative officer, Dave Filoni has been promoted to oversee the creative direction of the company as president and chief creative officer of Lucasfilm, president, and GM of

Lucasfilm business. Lewin Brennan will handle the business side of things as co-president Lucasfilm. Splitting Creative and the Business Studios is a common Disney strategy with Pixar run by Pete Dr. Jim Morris and Walt Disney animation overseen by Jared Bush and Clark Spencer. Philoni and Brendan will report to Alan Bergman, co-chairman of Disney Entertainment, has been a true privilege to spend more than a decade working alongside the extraordinary talent at Lucasfilm. Kennedy said their creativity and dedication has been an inspiration, deeply proud of what we've accomplished together, excited to continue developing films and television with longtime collaborators and fresh voices

who represent the future of storytelling. Kennedy's exit closes out one Star Wars era and launches a new one, with the elevation of Faloni and Brennan posing many questions with few answers yet revealed. One thing certain, after a period of relative inactivity as the Kennedy succession was settled, Lucasfilm could see development go into Hyperdrive under the new leadership. Polony was mentioned by Lucas and came up through the world of animation, overseeing beloved series such as the Clone Wars, before teaming with John Favreau on live action shows such as the Mandalorian and Osoka. Brennan joined Lucasfilm in 1999 and rose to the president of Industrial Light and Magic before assuming her current role in 2015,

overseeing all of business for the company. Kennedy was a veteran producer, boasting eight best-picture Oscar nominations on titles such as the Sixth Sense and Lincoln when she took over Lucasfilm more quickly to move into the new era of Star Wars movies. She quoted J.J. Abrams, direct Star Wars to Force Awakens, the $2 billion grossing feature that launched a new trilogy in 2015. It was the first Star Wars feature since 2005's Revenge of the Sith and met the moment of pent-up demand with a mix of nostalgia and new characters. It stands as the top grossing movie of all time at the domestic box office was 936.6 million. More movies. More movies. follows annually, including the $1 billion grossing Rogue 1,

Star Wars Story, The Last Jedi, $1.3.3 billion, solo, a Star Wars story, 392, and Rises Skywalker at $1 billion. It was not always smooth sailing. Kennedy fired filmmakers, Lord and Miller as directors of solo, replacing them at Ron Howard mid-production. The film became the first Star Wars movie to lose money in its theatrical run. During the production of Rogue One, she sidelined director, Gareth there was with Tony Gilroy, and he was brought in to overhaul the movie. And while that move endangered plenty of...

engendered plenty of sky is following narratives it proved to be savvy as the move became a pretty critical and financial hit and later led to gilroy's critically adored and emmy winning disney plus series and or some problems with this start following rise of skywalker which received a mixed response disney put star wars movies on pause with ceo bob iger acknowledging it produced too many movies too quickly over the past decade lucas film went through stops and starts as a promised movies that failed to materialize, including projects from Game and Thrones creators, Benio from Weiss, last Jedi filmmaker Ryan Johnson, Tygo-Watiti, a movie starring Daisy Ridley, has been stuck in development since it was announced in 2023.

There's now two films on the way, Mandalorian Grogu on the 22nd, Sean Levy's Starfighter on May 28th, 2027. While the movie side of Star Wars, well, let's let's start with the exit first here. So let's start here, Chris. Because there's so much to discuss here. And we're not even done with this article yet. There's so much more of what she says inside of it. What are your thoughts?

We knew we knew it was coming. They had rumored this a couple of weeks ago. She's been talking about the writing's been on the wall for a little bit. But now the beginning of the year, it makes sense. What do you think with this announcement? Well, I mean, for the longest time, Kathleen Kennedy has basically been Columbo. She just keeps coming back in, going one more thing.

And then she doesn't leave. She keeps announcing her retirement and doesn't. So this does make sense beginning of the year, seeing this kind of shift happen. I do want to just point out, as always, anytime we talk about Kathleen Kennedy, people are so quick to talk about all of the problems that have come with her staying in this position. And when Star Wars is good, people tend to not give her credit. But when Star Wars is bad, they put all the blame on her. Has she had a flawless track record?

No. I think she probably should have gotten out sooner. but we do have to at least acknowledge that she is a big part of why the Star Wars franchise for a long time was doing so well. Has it teetered? Of course it has. But I feel like this is the time. You know, we are having so many things kind of come to an end within Star Wars. The Mandalorian and Groo group theoretically is the send-off to this kind of flagship thing we've had on Disney Plus for their Star Wars content. And it makes sense for us to kind of have a changing of the captain, if you will.

But again, I just want to bring up everyone always loves to point out how she has done this terrible job. Not the whole time, guys. Not the whole time. So we have to give her her roses for what she has done well. Totally. She's obviously an award winning producer. Yeah. And so I equate that to Winston,

as we talked many times about sports, right? Where this is just about to go there. Yeah. This is somebody who has won championships. And every, like when the coach is winning championships, they're a good coach. And then when they start losing. in games and come in, you know, last place, then people are like, oh, the whole tenure was crap.

And it's not the case. I think Chris is right. As an overall producer, you cannot deny that she, no, she's, she's one of maybe the best. I saw some silly comment that said like, you always said that, she's not responsible for, for indoor. Never said that. If it wasn't for, if it wasn't for Kathleen Kennedy, you don't get a Tony Gilroy on

the show. Creatively in certain things, she lets certain. creators explore and do their things without interference. Tony Gilroy being one of those. And I think that that's in elements like that that where she was shining. I trust Tony. I'm going to let him do. There's other times when creatively she got involved with Star Wars

that I think she dropped the ball, which is in the same way you're talking about with coaches. And it's like, maybe they shouldn't have called that play in the big game because that wasn't the call to make. I think Lord Miller is an example of that. Right. Maybe we would take, and what's not her fault, When you look at that, what I will say, I'm not a big fan of the solo movie. But I don't blame the financial loss on her on that one. I blame that one on Iger. Iger was the one who said, you got to release this in May.

Six months after the device of Last Jedi, right? And right before Infinity War came out. When December had already been proven, it's working. Last Jedi, Force Awakens. Rogue one, and then they move it. So I don't give her all of the loss there with that. So what I do think that when producing is very different than running an entire company and running a creative thing.

And I don't think that's her strength. I think her strength is exactly what they said, finding the right producers, finding the right directors, finding the right talent. Certain things that directors do. Running the overall narrative and all that, it's not her strength. And I think she proved that. it's just and then stretch why she's leaving yeah no i agree with you i think it's funny the way that we described her tenure really is it's crazy how much sports echoes everything else this is

for those that follow football this is mike tomlin who congratulations on signing john harball which is a very similar situation as well you had 18 19 years tenure as a coach you won a super bowl early and then it was like you had success throughout but you weren't reaching the heights that the fans were expecting i think this is the same thing here where she comes out of the gate swinging. People are feeling good about the sequel trilogy. People are feeling good about Rogue One and everything. And then as time goes on, you're still seeing success in the season

and that it's still a billion-dollar movie at a Last Jedi, but the fans start to divide. And then things start to go one way or the other. And even the rise of Skywalker still pulls in a billion, but by that point, you've kind of dropped the ball. You still see some success like we talked about with Mandalorian and all but not. But again, dropping the ball. dropping the ball. So anybody that is, like you said, not giving the flowers for what she did

over the course of the tenure is being disingenuous. And I don't actually take anything that they're saying all that seriously. But to sit here at the same time and try and sweep under the rug, the direction that things have been going for the last couple of years is also disingenuous. I think we need to just have this honest conversation that she does have a hall of fame run for what happened here, but it just didn't look good at the end. And so, you know, now we really need to move on and really hope that we can turn this whole team around. I took that better for all the way. Well, you know, you know what it is though, Crystal. It works. It was good. Yeah. But with that, I think that I still would say, I don't think

she was the right person to run the overall company. I think she might have been the right person to be producing some of the movies, like clearly. And I think that in the same way we say this all the time too. Like when Infinity War and Endgame are like the biggest movies and everybody loves them, it's Kevin Feigy and Marvel. It's never Disney. Never Disney. But if a movie sucks, oh, Disney ruined it. Disney ruined Marvel.

They did it. It's the same thing with this. There's a lot that she did right inside of putting together those pieces in Rise of Skywalker. But when it started to really go bad, in my opinion, was Rogue One. Because Rogue One

was a success. But in the failure of what she had with Solo, Solo showed the failure. Rogue 1, it tricked you. Because Rogue 1, all the same shit was going on. They didn't like what was going on with what Gareth Edwards was doing. They didn't like it.

So they brought in Gilroy to try to fix it up. And they just, they happened to Frankenstein it together and make something that was pretty special. They, with Solo, you know, there's a lot, there's a lot that just didn't work. And it just looked, It just didn't work.

And it came out at that time that we said. So that's to me when it started to go south was when it started to show, wait a minute, there's things that maybe this isn't working creatively the right way. And the shows, where I will say with that one comment who was talking about that and or that was wrong, maybe this is what they meant, I think she had less to do with the Mandalorian creatively in the beginning. I think that anything that this is what I have to make very clear. there was nothing that anybody made that Kathleen Kennedy didn't sign off on and say go for it.

It's impossible. So really, oh, she didn't give her credit. You have to. She's the one that's got to check off and say, okay, go for it. So she let Faloni and Favro, or you want to make a TV show? You want to do this as a show you want to make go. I think when it became very successful, she started to getting a little bit more involved. Maybe not.

And there are other things. I don't know if the Jack Black iso thing is her. I don't know if it is Fabra. I think from what they heard, his Favre was like a fan of his own, put her in the show, whatever. What she does do and did do, she does get the hot direct.

She gets the, you know, the, who's hot right now? Who's doing this? Like, as opposed to who's going to tell us the best story? That's why TICA got a gig. I think that a lot of these, you know, this happens often. And I think that's why,

look I think Donald Glover is great I think he was the best part of solo but I also think he got a full movie because he was done because he was Glover I don't know who they're still keeping that movie in development because it's him that movie shouldn't go right now that's not the movies that they need but we'll get into that but either one I want it why can't I have the things I want true true but let me ask you this Chris let's talk about let's talk about the replacement because as they allude to or potentially allude to in this article was it could be fresh blood, could be something brand new, or it could be attack of the clones.

I'll start with Lewin Brennan. And I think that because people are going to right away expecting me to go, oh, this is the bad choice overall for these two. Lou and Brennan seems like a great choice for executive, for the business side, proven track record. She seems like good move. That's the way to go. 50% of this works for me. How are you feel about the whole pie? So when we're talking about that, then Brennan,

but then Faloni being the other point of that? You can start with either one, whatever you want to start with. I just, I wanted to address that I think that she was a very good choice. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, they're hiring from within. This is somebody who's already gotten a proven track record, who's done a really nice job of running the various divisions.

And from a business standpoint, she really knows what she's doing. And this is one of the things that to your point of what you were saying earlier about Kennedy, Kennedy's a great executive. I don't know if she's always the best creative. I think she often isn't the best creative. But I think she has some smart business savvy. She knows how to go after, you know, like you said, who's hot right now, that sort of thing. And I feel like Brennan is somebody who also can understand how to implement those things alongside a creative team to give us some really great stuff potentially. You know, this is somebody who knows how Lucasfilm, Industrial Light and Sound or Skywalker Sound, all of that kind of works together and comes together.

And so I feel like she's a really, really great pick here. And I do like the idea of the dichotomy of kind of a, you know, gun and saffron thing. Because Faloni, right, there's always that idea like gun. Oh, he's one of us. He knows Star Wars lore so deeply, so intrinsically and so loves this. However, then you have the risk of him doing his kind of thing that he's known to do of being a little insular and making this galaxy smaller by doing all these connective stories. I've said this over and over again. Lucas does this.

You know, Faloni does this. There is this Dickensian nature to Star Wars that I don't really enjoy. And by that, I mean, Charles Dickens love to have all of his characters miraculously be tied together. You know, and I can enjoy that in great expectations. I don't want that in a vast galaxy that is far, far away. I want to explore other aspects of it, which it sounds like we are teeing up for, you know, with things like the Ryan Gosling Star Wars film.

So I'm hoping that having somebody like Brennan with a Faloni or some pairing similar to that can be a, hey, cool, yes, you have great understanding of this universe. But what if we try this? Or what if we court this director? Or what if we dabble with genre? You know, because you can do a lot in the sandbox. And Star Wars Visions, honestly, is one of the things that's really proven that.

I know. I wish that they would, I wish they'd let that team have a little bit. That's a very, it's a totally separate team from other creative. I think they should follow a lot of those stories. I think they should dive into those worlds. Couldn't agree with you more. Yeah. Winston, so yeah, in the case of Faloni, to kind of piggyback, I've been pretty vocal.

I think, I think it's a terrible choice. I think it's an absolutely terrible choice to have him. Who would you have put instead of him? I don't have an answer to that. because it's like, you know, I would like to see someone that's going to expand it a little bit more. I don't mind as much as Chris does the connectivity if it's all making sense, like in the way that like Andor was connectivity, right? And I didn't, I didn't mind that as long as you're telling you should tell different stories, which I agree with. But I feel like in the way that I fear, Gunn could make it more, depending on what he is Gillespie going to be able to make a Gillespie movie and is Supergirl or is he going to be making a Gillespie movie and is Supergirl?

or is he going to be making a version of guns, notes of Supergirl, right? And I feel like I don't want to see that in Star Wars because I've already seen that. And let's make no mistake about it. Faloney has had a very strong creative imprint on Star Wars over the last couple of years. And he's as much to blame as Kennedy is. A lot of things. Like, Asoka, when I watched the first two episodes, I said, oh, I really loved rebels. I think he's a great animation director.

I think he's a great animation writer. I don't think his stuff plays. There's a few things that he directed in the Mandalorian season one and season two that I think are very good. But his overall writing is childish. And I think that Asoka, as I watched it back, I kind of, I think I co-lated myself in the first way, in the first time watching it going, oh, you know, okay, kind of enjoyed it. It's terribly written. It's terribly written. And I wonder what season two is going to do.

He holds on the things. He's writing the entire season. He gate keeps. and it's like because well George taught me so I know better than you do and that is a really bad way to go into this especially when you don't have the experience you can say whatever you want about Kathleen Kennedy you couldn't say anything about her experience now granted he's not taken over the business side of things they're going to let him do creative things but with that much power of him standing there like Vader in the hallway

it's like, well, no, I don't want to do something like Andor. I don't want to do Knights of the Old Republic because George didn't like that stuff, so I don't like it either. You're never going to see that kind of stuff. And you're going to see more live action cartoons. And I hope I'm wrong. But what do you make of this entire change with it? Well, I just wanted, before I answer that, I just wanted to ask you then, is that not where,

you know, I'm so sorry. What's her name again? It's Brennan. Is that not where Brennan is like, well, I don't care, Brody. We're co-chairs in this. She's the business side. No, I get that, but I'm saying, but Knights is going to make us X amount of dollars.

So I'm going to need you. Is that not how that kind of balances out or no? She's going to say, she's the one that's going to be handling the parks. She's going to be handling. So she has, she would have no say. I don't know. She's going to have no say. Of course she's got, she's like, you know, she can give her opinions.

But as far as who's going to be green lighting the stuff. the creative stuff is going to be him he's like yeah the only reason why i asked is because i thought that that was like i i do think about say um you know jobs and cook and all that kind of stuff when and and wasn't yet when that was that was that was balanced out is that like yeah steve was was the one that had to like kind of make it happen and like greenlit yes or no and if stuff went too much they'd be like you got to rein that back in i i thought that that was supposed to be what the relationship is and if that's the case if brennan does have that kind of influence and power. I think that's going to be the thing that helps potentially balance it out.

But I understand what you're saying, and you know obviously way more intimately than I do, that if Faloni has kind of gone off the deep end with that, that is a concern that you're going to see that kind of go that particular direction. I would just hope especially whatever that Iger wants to kind of, because I'm assuming he had some sort of say in helping decide how this was going to go as well, that there was a conversation of this is not going the right direction. So there isn't going to be. That's what I worry.

I think that they're enamored by the, I saw someone make this comment the other day, and I feel like this is the same way Filoni feels, right? Someone said like, oh, it's just the internet that has a problem with Star Wars, because when you go to Star Wars celebration, everybody loves it. No shit, everybody loves it a Star Wars celebration. Why are you going to buy a ticket to Star Wars and be like, yeah, you suck. Why do you put women in Star Wars? You know, it's like, then of course they're not going to do that.

And you shouldn't do that on the Internet either. But like the internet also does represent opinions of people who are just like, damn, kind of over. And the internet is a much larger place than Star Wars Celebration. Star Wars Celebration is going to applaud and say, look, you're doing everything great. You're a celebrity. Dave Filoni, we love everything you do. Dave Filoni has a lot of misses, a lot of misses. And he and the thing is, well, he wasn't very involved in Ackle.

That's a problem if he wasn't because he was, he had. that job of creative. He had that job a lot longer than it was announced. It was announced a year after he had already been in the role. He was very involved in the accolite. He was very involved. And so that was a problem. That's a problem. He was around when they were doing Boba Fett. And that was a problem. He was around to give some advice on Obi-1. They dropped the ball on that one. So and but to them, to him, great, very proud of what it was and what else he's going to say, obviously, but like you can't look at that and go, oh, that went over with the fan. You can't look at Obi-Wan and then look at Andor and the accolades and everything that that, that, that, that

Andor got and not say, oh shit, we should have done that with Obi-Wan. That's, you should really dove deep into Obi-Wan the way everybody thought that what we got with Andor we were going to with Obi-Wan, and we didn't. So he's as much to blame as anyone else. That's fair. I think part of it that we try and take into consideration with stuff is like obviously when a lot of this started to go full-blown sideways was around the same time that we hit the pandemic so then you get into the idea of really pushing streamers even harder. And I think what got interesting where this will be the capes and cows tie, when you look at the MCU and the same way you look at Star Wars, because of the numbers, because people were in the house,

it looked like everything was all gravy, but you're starting to see the numbers drop and drop and drop. And instead of anticipating for, you know, this is actually a decline in quality, they were probably more looking at it like, well, everybody was in the house, so we didn't really have the box office. And so people were still watching it on Disney Plus,

so it is what it is, but not actually seeing the greater problem that was kind of going on there. So I think we've all agreed at this point that Kathleen probably should have taken a step away and there should have been a change in direction a little bit earlier. And so I think maybe they didn't see it quite as quickly as they should have to make the adjustment. So if you're this worried about Faloni, it's certainly going to raise like a red flag in my brain

to know if he had that much intricate connection to some of these projects that didn't work as well. But again, I think that's exactly why you went with the Guns-Safran model of, we're splitting up the duty. Sure. You couldn't give him, and rightfully so, he knows it to give him credit. He'd probably like, look, you want me to try to take on the creative side of it and tell stories, please do. But the parks and all that stuff, that's not, that's not me in the same way that gun did, Chris, you know, like, that's not, and he shouldn't have. That's not his responsibility. And that's what they should split that up, because that would be too much for

him to do in the same way it would be too much for gun to do. But one of the things, one of the pros that I do think will happen here, and one of the things that I think Kathleen Kennedy did not well was because I will I will come back with you just a little bit Chris where I think she's a great producer I don't think she's a great executive I think she's a great producer because I think as an executive a lot of errors that she made was making announcements way too far ahead of things and doing it many times we've got Patty Jenkins to do a movie just kidding we got Benny on a Benny off and Weiss no they're not we've got Daisy Ridley coming out in the movie soon here she is on

stage that's on hold tycho artiti's doing a movie is he like all that stuff like that's she continued to do that over and over and over again i don't think feloni will do that um to give him his flowers there i don't think he'll do that i think he is very calculated in his decisions when you look at the stuff that he did in in all of his shows he waited i think sometimes waiting too long i think that he did that i think that it was he's probably behind the idea of waiting for the mandolorean and grogoo trailer let's show it at celebration give them that special thing and then we'll show it down the line. It was a great, nice model back in the day.

It doesn't work anymore. It was leaked all over the place and some of the lowest amounts of views. Any Star Wars trailer has ever gotten because people saw it already long time ago. No one cares. But I do think that he is going to be calculated. And I think Star Wars needs calculated. Yeah, I completely agree with that. I understand that completely because how many times was it the here you go.

No, just kidding. I hired them. No, I fired them. So I completely understand that. I do think Faloni will have a little bit of that reverence for this, though. You know, that idea of it's worth the wait. Just let me, let me give you this later on. And I think there will be a little bit more, this sounds a little bit ridiculous, but a little bit more pageantry around it too. Because it should be special when these movies come out. Because when was the last time we had Star Wars on a big screen, first of all? I mean, and that's where- 2019. That's insane. That's what it should be. Well, this is the pro. Again, more of the pros that will happen, right? They're going to start to make things happen. You're going to start seeing more movies, more projects will be coming out because they need to prove themselves. So that that's a pro.

The other pro is that Floney is very good on stage when it comes to exciting the audience and doing things with him and whoever it is. Kathleen Kennedy was not. She was reading off of a monitor every time. It never felt genuine. You always like, oh, there's an executive who's reading. off the thing. They don't really, and guys, we're so excited because you're excited because coming soon is a Ray movie. And you're like, and Floney really gets, you know, he knows how to tease

this up because he cares about it. And that's the other pro. Palloni genuinely loves Star Wars. I'm not, there's no world where I'm going to combat that at all. I don't think he's the right guy for the job, but he loves Star Wars. I don't think Kathleen Kennedy loves Star Wars. I just don't. I think that she liked making money off of Star Wars, but I don't think she loved Star Wars. And I think that that is a positive to have somebody who loves Star Wars. Dude, all you've really done with this conversation is it's like,

it's not to say that I'm not engaged. I am. All it made me realize is how actually perfect of a first season and a show the studio was. Because you're like the way that all of this played out, you're having your Brian Cranston of like, go give me my moneymaker crap. And like you have someone that wants to be the creative, but they're two inside baseball and they're not paying attention.

The one thing that it's done for me is just realize how well done that show was. But I, but I, like, honestly. And I, but the more, the more you talk about it, man, I, I, I, I will say that my fear where the saffron gun model, in my opinion, is not totally working right now is the fact that gun himself has even said I took on too much. Too much. I am afraid of the fact he was directing a lot and maybe Phelonian won't be directing it much anymore. Right. But that is what I'm afraid of is that you you got so excited about the dream job that you wanted, you've been wanting to do something like this for a while and

you're more attached to these particular stories. I'm afraid now that Faloni will make the same mistake and want to immediately jump into being directly involved with two, three, four projects to start things off instead of properly delegating out. And then you end up with a similar situation where I think the DCU was doing fine so far, but people are starting to go, really love that peacemaker ending, bro. Where is Batman? What's funny about that I went to know, too, is as you, I agree with you that he said he took

on a lot and he's doing too much and it's a really, it's a big job overall, right? Now, to be fair, DC is a bigger overall property with everything else that they have and all the different characters and different stories that they can tell. Star Wars is big, but like, as Chris said, they haven't had a movie since 2019. they don't have to push out. We need two, three movies a year with a TV show. It's a lot for Gunn to be doing. But what Gunn has that Dave Filoni does not is experience.

Gun has way more experience creatively than Dave Filoni does. So what I will also say is the thing is, and this is where I want to make sure that I've followed by the example that I've always talked about, and that is if the first movie, because we won't see the first movie from these two, which we'll get into, which might be this Kinberg thing, which is Snyder had a new report on that today.

Because Starfighter and Mandelaer and Grogo are still under the Kathleen Kennedy Watch. Now, they'll shepherd it. They'll make sure things are going right with it. They'll be doing that, but it's still Kennedy will be producing it. You can't judge it. People are going to, people, if Starfighter's great,

I guarantee you, oh, do you think, no, Christian, Philoni, not Faloni's movie. It's the next movie. And if Filoni's movie that he does and he announces and he puts out and he shepherds is fantastic, I'm going to look at both Chris Carr and Winston A. Marshall, I'm going to look at the audience and I'm going to go, I was wrong. He really did exactly what he needed to do. And I am happy for him. And I'm happy for us as fans. However, if the first one is the same old step and repeat, bad dialogue, all the same stuff, problems

behind the scenes is Flonie really wanted it to be like this and Flonie wanted it to be like that and they didn't let me do my thing then I'm going to go I got to ask you a question though and I understand that we're in a place of frustration but is that not jumping the gun

as well no pun intended in that we don't we shouldn't look at coaches we were using that metaphor just off of an immediate first thing that happened no of course not of course I don't know. So like, you can say it's automatically ever in great shape.

But a win. Good or bad. Good. I understand that. Good or bad. Because I even think about like, again, I'm trying to go super deep into the stuff. But we were so ready to say C.J. Stroud was going to be the dude because of his rookie season.

And then he's been kind of asked until now where he started to be okay. Yeah. So in the same breath on the flip on the flip side with Bryce Young, bad coming out. But now he's starting to figure it out. So are we going to be that quick to go? If he has one move. and it's great, we're good, or if it's bad, it's horrible. Case by case.

It depends on the history of what actually happened. If it's like, because some people will judge just on money, right? But like, if you look at, if a movie comes out and you're like, like, there's a ton, I can't remember. There's a movie recently. I just can't remember that it was like, look at the Long Walk. Long Walk was a great movie. Didn't do very well.

Great. Roof Man. Great movie. Didn't do very well. People like, ah, Derek seen Francis's last movie. no one really saw it wasn't wasn't that good he's not really doing good right now i think that's unfair because no one saw the movie so if loy puts out a movie the first movie's really good you're like okay we got we got hope now because it looks like he's making he hired the right people he's having

conversations with people to say like look this is the direction we want to go to now what we're also going to find out is some of these things that these roadblocks that were supposed and rumored by kathleen kennedy um that like don't use luke anymore more, don't tie it into this stuff. Is he going to stick by that? Or was he part of that? And I'm not saying you need Luke in order to save the whole friend. You don't.

You can never use them ever again. But I'm just curious, like certain things, right? Like where I've mentioned this many times over, it would have made no sense if Luke wasn't the guy that came in to save Grogo. He was the most powerful Jedi at the moment. If it makes sense for the story, depending on the timeline, do it. Now that being said, get the hell out of that timeline. I'm sick of that timeline. Let's go to new timelines.

And that's why I'm scared because I know he doesn't like the Knights of All Republic. He don't like the Republic. You don't want to live there. He didn't like the books. You don't want to be a part of that. And like you've got to bend the knee on that because it was the thing that Kathleen Kennedy said that's still of this day. Well, well, the thing of these other IPs have is they have books and other things that, that, you know, the other stories. And we don't have that. Meanwhile, behind her, Claudia Gray novels and, and, and, of these Zahn novels and Alexander Fried novels scattering the place. Adapt those.

Adapt those stories. I was going to say, I think the biggest mistake that Kathleen made in my opinion was because I'm assuming she had a massive part of this of essentially just being like, none of this shit is related at all. You're not, where this is all what legends, we're not, you don't, sorry, there's none of this. That's not what she said though. So what, so. No, what she said in the beginning, what, which is another, which you're in, you're in the

right, you're in the right highway. you just got off the wrong exit. Wrong exit. So what she said, there was a lot of the stuff, old stuff was indeed put into legends, right? But then what she said was we're making all new stuff. This is in 2012.

We're making all new stuff and all that stuff. The books, the comics, the video games, essentially what James Gunn said, right? All that is going to be canon now. All of it. So it all, if you hear something,

the new stuff that comes forward, but none of the old. No, no, the old stuff was then put into legend, but this news them. And then they didn't, and then they didn't stick to that. Because Flloney, Flon he doesn't like the books.

He likes the TV shows. All the animated shows are canon, but not, but not the books. And we, we can change. Which is, which is just incredibly dumb to me,

because again, I, for me, I remember the Young Jedi series, which I was obsessed with growing up. But then other than that, like, Cotor is one of the greatest stories

that we've seen in a minute. And I have patiently been waiting for them to do that. And it just, it's a kind of happen. not going to happen. Is it going to happen? Is it not going to happen? And it just, I don't know, man. I, I, if anything, you're making me a little afraid now. Like, I'm about to give in to the fear, which is going to lead it into anger and the anger will lead to hate. And that's what it'll lead to the

F and Darth side. I'm just saying be skeptical. That's all I'm saying is to be skeptical, because he's, and this is coming from someone. If you go back and you watch old footage of me, 2015 me is having a full on debate with old grouchy clinice with me right now and saying what are you talking about this is great news this guy is the guy this is the savior star wars and then you start to learn more and you realize he's not he's not he's he's a gatekeeper and that's what scares me is it's going to be this is my idea of star wars because george taught me you don't know, and we're going to do more of this stuff, and it can't just be for kids. I know that there should be stuff for Star Wars.

That's absolutely just right. I love the Young Jedi series and all that stuff that they do for them. It should be. There should be stuff that is based towards kids. But then you should get stuff like Andor. That's how you expand the brand. Go ahead, Chris. Having Andor and Skeleton Crew, I think that shows how far you can take this.

Skeleton Crew is so good. It was so fun. This is my issue here. is I'm fairly steeped in the lore, right? I'm a Star Wars fan. But when we get into things like, what is G Canon and all this other stuff, I do feel like I'm on the outskirts.

I do feel like I'm a fake fan. And that idea of gatekeeping of what is canon was not is so silly. And this is where I'm going to betray myself as an artist. But dear God, just follow the money, people. Like, Knights of the Old Republic made so much money. By 2019, that had already grossed a million. And look at last of us. Look at last of us.

And what last of us did in it, you can adapt some of your big properties. They never adapt any of their big books or it's mind blowing. Mind blowing. This is where I'm hoping. And again, this is so contrary to what I usually say on this show. This is where I'm hoping someone like Brennan, a board of someone. Like somebody else needs to come in and say, can you look at this chart about how much money this is made and how people really love this series? How people are ravenous for more of this content.

because that's where we then can meet those two things, where you can capitalize on a story that happens to make a shit ton of money and also is beloved. And that's where I think a lot of these video games, a lot of these novels are just ripe for the picking. And you can do what we've done with comic book adaptations. Change it up.

It doesn't have to follow it as a paint by numbers. You can do a couple different things. You can take that world and tell a different story within it. You can use it as a framework. And so I'm hoping that a Foloni would at least understand, hey, maybe it's not for me, but not everything has to be. And I think that's the biggest fallacy with so many of these greatest. I know, George taught me.

I know, George. Let me explain to you exactly what about the, yeah, let me explain to you exactly why the Darth Mall scene in Phantom Menace, and he breaks it down brilliantly. But it's still, there's certain things about the Clone Wars and other things that are still he's like well listen to why it's really great and you're like maybe it is really great because he explains it so well because but it's but in the overall grand scheme of things you've got to make it work for everyone if you want it to be a major brand again but that's but that to me is ultimately the sign of a good leader a good leader at the end of the day is not being not

getting in your own way yeah the idea of what you just started to say both of you of understanding the thing that you love and are passionate about can be really really good, but it is not the only good that exists. And so being willing to take other things in and let that kind of also. True. All right, we got, sorry, we got so much more to discuss on this story

because we didn't even get to the rest of the the actual exit interview. So before we do, though, I got to tell you guys, yeah, I'm amped up right now. Why? Because I have my coffee. That's right. Trade coffee. Love trade coffee. And then I'm eating well today. Why? Because I got a factor. Both of them.

Here you go. Check this shit out. Thank you to factor. Thank you to trade. Make sure the links are in the description for that. You help out the show tremendously. When you get yourself something wonderful, what a deal that is. All right. We got some more.

And Chris, my goal is every single time something stupid like that happens is just as long as I can make you laugh. And I know that I've got it. That killed me. I just got caught. What was that? So we'll have a gong in the back? What was that? Oh.

That might have been a. dog coughing. Oh, okay. Anyway, so let's go back to the article because there's more stuff in there that we can dive into. Now, I know that Chris and Winston might have to jump out a little today, normal time, but this show might go longer today because this is a story that's been in the works for the last five, ten years.

And what I will say, Chris, I don't think that Kathleen Kennedy ever actually announced her retirement and then came back. No, it catches being articles. Right. Everyone was always like, when is she leaving? I remember being a collider. She's leaving soon. And that was, I've been a collider in almost seven years. And it's like, they kept saying, it's time she's leaving. She's leaving. She's leaving. Because she stuck around for a long time. Like after a couple of different losses that you said she hadn't had a movie come out in the theater since 2019 for Star Wars. Indiana Jones did not do well. Lost a lot of money. the last couple of shows have not been hit minus and or right so there's not a lot of wins there that would keep somebody and look back Winston as we were talking about like with coaching you'd assume well you know they had a losing season again they're probably going to get fired oh they had another losing season probably getting fired another losing and sticking around

that shows you the respect that she had more so than anything else I used to joke that she had naked pictures of Bob Iger but I really also because like I'm kidding because it's the respect that she garnered as a producer. Well, the funny thing is the reason I specifically chose Tomlin as the example. And again, I know there's not a lot of people in here that watch football and those that do will kind of get it. Tomlin, again, always the winning season for the most part, kept going to the playoff. He hadn't won a playoff game since 2016. It's kind of the same and hadn't won a Super Bowl since like before the, you know, the one he won

was in like 2007 or eight, something like that. So my point is, is while you remained relevant and you would see things and be like, damn, Grogu is blowing up the chart. Like the Grogu doll is the thing to have. Like you literally, yes, that's your winning season, but then you get to the to the playoffs and you blow it. Right. Immediately. Right.

And so it feels like what's your follow up game. What's your follow up? I don't give a damn what you did in the regular season. If you can't produce in the playoffs. Right. When your playoff game is Boba Fett, you're in trouble. That's what I'm saying. Like, you, the Boba Fett should have been a layup.

That should have been a layup of a story to do because he's such a beloved character. And instead, you had people go, do I actually hate Boba Fett? Like, is that, am I, am I more concerned about the, like, essentially Power Rangers in space, like, dudes doing, like, turns and flips off their little, off their little mopeds? And that I don't, like, that is where I think this, that, that analogy works. and also just from the standpoint of why, again, it is more than been time and people have been chanting fire, Kathleen, like is because you have all of this just raw talent and IP that you can use, and yet somehow you've mismanaged it.

I know. Well, I mean, yeah, that's one of the things. All right, Chris, I want you, like, we're going to tell, let's get to this article a little bit more. We'll go, we'll dive a little deeper into the Hollywood Reporter, and then we'll get your thoughts on some of the stuff that she says here. So check this out. Here, let me just draw.

this right here. Hold on everybody. Shout out to our producer Luke here, who did this little screenshot, which I really like. Okay, let's see. Where is it? All right. Here we go. Perfect. All right. So while the movie's

side of Star Wars faltered after Rise of Skywalker, Kennedy's decision to bring in Fabro to create launch in the first live action Star Wars TV series proved to be a win beyond anyone's expectation, this Mandalorian shot Baby Yoda into pop culture and the initial seasons not only restored Star Wars golden stature, became the flagship show for Disney Plus when it launched in 2019.

Series that followed, however, had mixed results with one, the 2024 show, the Acklead being outright rejected by a certain faction, there's sometimes temperate fan base. I think that's fair, unfair. It's not just, it wasn't just a certain faction. A lot of people, there was a lot, there was a lot of people who loved that show, no doubt. But there's a lot of people just outside of a certain faction that didn't, that didn't like that. And I, myself being one of them.

and or on the opposite opposite end of the spectrum, showed Star Wars could be used to tell stories with political themes. I think that's a damaging thing to do what they just did there. I think that just leads to, that was a damaging thing what they did. They shouldn't know with that. It became a showcase for its actors and ended its run with five Emmys and 22 nominations. Overall, Star Wars series under Kennedy have landed 85 Emmy Noms.

Coming up will be a second season of Asoka and the animated mall Shadow Lord series. Lucas film in recent years also undertook reviving Ron Howard's Willow series on Disney Plus as well as a fifth and final Indiana Jones movie but neither found the hope for audience. The new leadership arrives with his own set of questions. Flonis known for his intimate arcane franchise knowledge was served him well in animation but less so in live action. Season 3 of The Mandalorian and season one of Asoka

dealt with intricate facts of interclan rivalry and Jedi witches that were perhaps two in the weeds for casual viewers. He was also set to make his live action feature directorial debut with a movie that combined characters from these series, but that movie was put on the back burner, and Favreau's The Mandalorian and Grogu is now opening this spring. Observers point out that under Faloni and Brennan, the franchise could see a continuation of many of the practices

and priorities set forth under Kennedy. After all, both have been at Lucasfilm for years and part of the institution. Others point out that the company stepped back from announcing projects, both feature and TV last year, and as Kennedy negotiated her exit and a search for successors took place. For all intents and purposes, the company was spinning its wheels. Now, these sources say Lucasum can move ahead with full force as it seeks to recapture the excitement and creativity of more civilized age.

On Thursday, Disney's top brass Kennedy gave a send-off with CEO Bob Iger recalling. When we acquired Lucasill more than a decade ago, we knew that we were bringing into the Disney family, not only one of the most beloved and enduring storytelling universe has ever created, but also a team of extraordinary talent led by a visionary filmmaker, someone who had been handpicked by Lucas himself, no less. added Bergman. Kathleen Kennedy has been a tremendous force in the industry for 50 years, and it's our privilege to have her at Disney for leading Lucasfilm for nearly 14 of them. The journey to reawaken the force won't be straightforward.

The franchise has always struggled to appease those nostalgic for the classic stories and characters, a fan base with strict ideas on what Star Wars means, and those who believe that evolving is the only way that the brand doesn't get stuck in Amber. This week, in a prophetic move, Disneyland announced a pivot at Star Wars Land. It will phase out characters and storylines created during the Kennedy run sequel. such as Kylo Wren and Bring Back Vader and other Lucas creations. Is that it? Luke, can you send me the exit interview thing that she did?

I want to see some of that in there as well. All right, to follow that up there, you know, it's like the same thing. It's like what, let's sort of the, the idea of that the galaxy's edge side of it and bringing in now Bader and changing that up. I don't have an issue with that. as I said yesterday. I think that when you look at it, business is business. If they feel like that's going to bring more people in, okay, the new trilogy had their run there. Now they're going to do some of the classic stuff. I hate this idea of, oh, you're bending the knee to people who do it. It's business. But I don't know, Chris, what do you think about that? And do you think

that was a Kennedy decision or is that part of the new strategy moving forward post-can. I feel like that's the new strategy moving forward. And as sad as I will be to, not flirt with Kylo Ren at Disneyland and try to get him to take me away. You know, it makes sense. It makes sense. You know, and this is the thing with Disney, too. Everything is cyclical, right? We have the throwback 90 stuff where then I can go and see like, oh, my gosh, they have,

you know, Powerline. They've got Max from Goof Troop. They have Darkwing Duck. They don't have those guys walking around all the time. And that's fine, because that is from the past. You can always shift out and have different characters pop in. And this is something they've been doing constantly with Marvel, you know, of having, hey, we're going to have Wolverine and Deadpool walking around. We're going to have some of our other characters pop in.

And then what they've been smart about with that do is doing them almost as limited releases. Hey, during this time, you could come see this person here. So changing it up and having like, you know, you can come see the original Trinity folks, right? You can be here and see a Luke Relo or Leo. Or we have all new characters. hey, you can see Ryan Gosling's character walking around. You can go do this other thing. I'm interested to see the new shift just because the whole Black Spire has a whole storyline to it, right?

Where you can go there and you can be part of the resistance and you can help, you know, keep the spark up and keep going with everything. Sure. And the idea of that is really cool so that you are in this almost immersive lorping experience while you're at Disney. However, I don't think that everyone takes advantage of that or wants to participate in that. And, you know, you can then utilize your characters who are staff at the end of the day, right? They're all cast members, but their staff and they're paid employees. You can use them in a more effective way that makes more sense for you to promote new movies or to appeal to what the people in the park want. Right. And I also understand that at the time when they launched it, you know, they wanted to really still promote their movies that I think at the same.

time that that, you know, that the Rise of Skywalk, I hadn't even come out yet when they started promoting that there. So, of course, they wanted to do it. But since then, you cannot argue that out of the three trilogies, it is the least popular. I had a, I did a poll on the channel yesterday, Winston, so what do you think? I asked, well, the originals, the prequels or sequels. Out of 10,000 people that voted, what do you think the percentages were? In a, in a, in a, in a general and a general, you don't be on the dot, but I'll probably say roughly about 70, 70 original, like 20 prequel and 10 sequel. You're very, very close.

72 for originals, 24 for the prequals, 4% for the sequels. At a 10,000 people, 4%. And that's only 10,000 people here. It wouldn't have changed much as it keeps going on. So you switch it up a little bit. You change it up. And that is also why I think that, you know, the narrative. needs to change. I hope that what didn't happen in that meeting with what Kathleen said,

okay, guys, I'm giving this, continue the fight what we're doing here, continue what we're doing and keep doing this and find, we'll find the stories in the same way that we've been looking for it now. Their approach has been wrong. It just hasn't worked. And you can say what you want about certain parts of the fan base. It doesn't mean that they don't buy tickets. So you, when you have, and I've always said this, when you have an IP. P like I always get I always push back on people like I've talked about look there is the side of this fan base that loves everything and no matter what you do you could fart into a bag it's the best thing that anyone ever has ever done in Star Wars and then for the same side you have the you have the same

people that just you get the best thing in the world and they hate it no matter what um but it's those people in the middle that they have to really grab and get them interested in get in star wars in the same way Marvel and DC has to do but the side of it is you know when you have um it's You have to understand, though, that both of these people need to buy tickets. The people with the fart in the bag, they're going to see everything. They're going to buy tickets. The people that hate everything, if you start giving them stuff around, you know, whatever it might be. Like, if you are listening to them, you need to because it's, it is this, it's the size.

It's the size of the audience when it comes to this IP. It's the size of the audience. It's not just, if you're making stories, and that's what I said about the acolyte. the acolyte was a smaller, if it was a smaller show and if it was just catered towards one particular audience and you made it for like $40 million, then go for it. But when you're making a show for $230 million, you have to appease everyone. You just have to. And so it's not something that you have to take on, I mean, you unfortunately have to take it

on the chin because people are, oh, you can't appease them. you're running a brand. So I don't know. I don't know what they're going to do here, Winston. Yeah, I'm, I'm not sure either. I think where a lot of studios are running into issues is they're, their analysis of why something works is tends to be off. So instead of looking at the Mandalorian and being, okay, what's working here?

They'd oversaturated the market with it to the point where then people got sick of it. So, you know, well, they brought Krogu back. No, Winston, go back to that. Because in those first two seasons, that's the first time fart in a bag. I agree. We're on the same page. Same page. But then, but then where they messed up.

They brought Krogo back. And I understand that. But then I also think about Book of Boba fat. You, again, when I mean you oversaturated, there was a point at which it was like, yeah, we do love this. What do we love about this? And then like, just keep giving them the same thing. That's what I'm saying. They didn't need to bring Grogu back.

And they bring them back because they're like, oh no, what do we do without Grogu now? Oh, no, what do we do without Grogu? Let's bring them back. Let's bring them back in Boba Fett. And it's like, just trust in your story. Because the third one was came of season three. Look, Katie is a dear friend.

She was the best part of the whole damn thing. The season was not good. Wasn't good. And partially, because a lot of stuff, as I said, and I was talking about nine of the seven kingdoms that's coming out. And someone's like, oh, should I be worried about the 30 minute episodes? No, because they write enough dialogue and there's enough stuff in there to develop characters in that 30 minutes. They use it wisely.

They're not just battling the monster of the week. Oh, here's another big, large monster. Let's laser shoot them in a cave. What about our story? We have about Contant. She's going to tell a speech. Ah, cut that down. We don't need to hear that speech.

It's like, yeah, you do, developer more for the people who haven't seen the cartoon, Dave. So that's what I wonder. going into it. But Chris, I've been talking a lot. I'm sorry. What do you say? It's okay. I mean, I am probably closer to the fart and the bad camp. I want a sentence. I already don't have a sense of smells. I'm like, it's fine in me. It's fun. I'm okay. Fair. But even I have had some moments, though, of, I don't know about this. Like, you know, to borrow from Robin John, the Vespa gang in Boba Fett was too far for me. Um, there were some moments with Groger and the Mandalorian.

I don't hate the Lizzo Jack Black stuff as much as everyone else. I'm sorry. Oh my. I just, it's fine. It's fine. Is it great? No. Is it fine?

It's fine. Um, it was what they call in some parts of town, herndus for horrendous. But again, as a, as a fart and a bagger. Yeah. I'm, I'm pretty okay with it. I have a fight to be. Yeah. But they do.

There is a difference to. to be very clear about appeasing everyone, like making something that is so milk toast that it's fine to intriguing every side of the camp. Right. And so, and I think that is the tricky balancing act here is how do you make it so it is accessible so that people who are new to Star Wars or don't know the deep, deep lore and aren't going to talk to you about the intrinsic nature of khyber crystals going to get in here. But how are you going to get to the people who go, no, canonically, that is incorrect. and you need to do this and this is so weird. So it is finding that middle ground.

And to me, honestly, it comes back to the nature of Star Wars is it's a story about uprising over a authoritarian regime. That's it. That's all it is at the end of the day. If we're focused on that kind of core story. So you can either go back to the basics of that and give me like an Andor or like a skeleton crew, whichever I end of the spectrum you want to go to, that dives into that kind of initial dynamic. or focus on the sci-fi nature of it. Star Wars is just such a weird and interesting IP because,

and I've said it before, in its original iteration, it really wasn't sci-fi. It was fantasy that put some space costumes on top of it. Fantasy sci-fi, yeah, yeah. Space opera, yeah. Exactly. At the end of the day,

it really is kind of like space wizards, you know? And so you can then either explore that mysticism side, as we've seen kind of dabbled with, but Filoni gets so up his own stuff that then we get lost in the sauce. So there does need to be this balancing act of, hey, can you explain this for me without spoon feeding me? And can you still give me a really intriguing story that is accessible for all of us, but still is going to keep those kind of glass pushing actuallys in the crowd as well.

And that's a hard thing to do. And I think it's so easy for all of us to say, here's what I would do. Here's what I would change in my Star Wars. Go write your fan fiction kids. I love that for you. Okay? And people are doing that now with AI. And I'll tell you that a lot of these,

these are a lot of these stories that are coming out on, on AI, some of these things, it's like, from Dave Falloni, I'm picking on, wait, I'm not watching that, what? Hey, maybe we should do this. Because they're making way better shit on those channels and they aren't in Lucasfilm right now. I can tell you that.

And I think if you're just not contained to like the idea of what the sandbox has to be. Yeah. Then you can open yourself up to so many more possibilities. Maybe so. I found the exit interview. Luke sent it to me. So it kind of goes over the future of the project.

So I want to go over that. And then we'll get to your questions in just a minute. 25 right now. They need 1-12 to tie. So could they get another win? We shall see. We shall see. Love that.

All right. This is the exit interview with deadline that Kathleen Kennedy gave. Now, again, she's been preparing for this for a bit. This does show the pro side of her. Like, you know, it's calculated. She knows she knew how she was going to do it. She found her successors. now she's doing her interviews.

Lucasfilm has circulated a lot of future Star Wars films and generated many hours of Disney Plus series in recent years. Talk about this combination of Flonie and Brennan and how you finally loosening your grip on the reins. She said two years ago, I went to Bob and Allen to figure out what the transition plan would be. And I made the recommendation that it be Dave Faloni and Lou and Brennan, the latter of whom who has been running the business alongside me. She comes out of ILM 16 years as a general manager and then transitioned into being the general manager for Lucasfilm. She has been my key financial partner, my business partner running the company. Dave is the perfect person to transition, but he hadn't made a movie and I worked very closely with him, beginning with Rogue One to get him a feel of how live action works.

His background is animation as he worked with George on Clone Wars. He's very talented, immersed in Star Wars. He and Pablo Hedago are like the walking encyclopedias inside the company. They always have the answers when you ask, hey, can I do this with a lightsaber or what colors were the sabres or anything you need to know what has come before? Dave has now spent all the seasons of the Mandalorian working with John Favro, who's been. a great mentor to him. And then he went off and did Asoka, which came from some of the stories he was telling Clone Wars, who was able to create the season one of Asoka. And now he's just finishing directing season two and writing all the episodes. That scares the shit out of me.

He finished that in October. But my point is, we've been talking about this for two years. That, that's, well, that goes to one of my points, guys, is that there's no world. Like, he's so possessive over Assoca. There's no world you should write that whole season by yourself. Bring you, you have so many, I have so much access to good writing. What are you doing? Kennedy, that is not happening here. I told everybody I would stick around in a bit longer than I had intended to, but I'm so ready to go off and have the chance to make lots of movies. I want to do more movies.

I want the opportunity to get back to a kind of eclectic group of movies that I used to. I'm looking forward to working with Frank again on some stuff, which of course is talking about her husband. He has been doing lots of documentaries and having a ball. I'm also really interested in new technology. I have to say, to which I said AI. Yes, I'm interested in exploring using those tools in responsible ways and working out the complications around trying to figure out what we're going to do

in terms of protecting artist's rights. That is vitally important, but at the same time, there's nothing more exciting than having new tools that it can span on what you're capable of doing in terms of creating visual language around stories. I've had a unique opportunity to be around a lot of that over the years and witness those changes. I generally feel like we're entering that moment again

where we're going to see things we've never seen before, and I think that's just really exciting. Is there some past breakthrough that compares to potential game-changing streamers? The AI stuff is very interesting too, and I'd like to explore it on a future episode. We don't have much time, so I want to get to, the future episodes things. Okay.

You just wrapped the sixth film in the Star Wars universe. Starfighter meant to be an ongoing theatrical series. It was always envisioned as a single film. Sean Levy just made the experience so pleasant for everybody. We found this 14-year-old kid out of Ireland who had virtually no experience. That's always risky. Hanging a story so much on a child actor. You're not exactly how comfortable they're going to be.

Flynn Gray turned out to be such a special kid. When you get cast, a lot of it becomes about the parents. He has great parents and got lucky there too. Not only was the other Ryan Gosling, the movie is structured in the that he had kind of a new actor coming in every few weeks he was one-on-one with matt smith amy adams and air and pierre and each one it was so great to watch him because he would just get so excited by the actors he got to work with it was like he was the best he was in the best university possibly be in um let's see more i'm gonna get more into the project of the projects themselves

hold on a second okay no bears okay so what about the question i asked earlier sounds like Sean will be a willing returnee and you've made a discovery with this kid from Ireland. Are we going to watch him grow up in an arc of pictures? We could, but this was designed as a real standalone. We have the Mandalorian movie with John Favreau coming out, which also was great in a completely different Star Wars movie. That comes out in May. And as soon as I get back into town, I'm sitting down with John and looking at that.

The whole time I've been shooting Starfighter. We've working on effects that are going into the movie. We finished shooting in November. We've had a long post on that. And so I'll oversee a lot of those effects shots cut into John's movie and I'll myself re-immersed and get that finished with Sean's movie this could go on but it's not our intention right now aka let's wait to see if it makes money we really made the movie as a standalone story but you cannot ignore the fact that this young actor is so good I will be very

surprised if he doesn't go on and we don't try to see if there be future stories aka if it makes a lot of money but it was kind of nice not going to this and not having to think that way we could just make a movie and tell a story totally fair and smart deadline what have been the highs and those running company built on such a beloved IP, which he said, the highs include realizing how many people love Star Wars, the majority of people and certain people that I run into and people outside the business, they love Star Wars, they love the movies, they might love all the shows, they might love some of the shows, but when I came into this, I realized a few things. We had walked in at a moment that there hadn't been any movies for 10 years or so, but there was still the memory

of the greatest series of movies in cinema history. So you're walking into something that is enormous expectations, yet at the same time, you know you've got to find new characters and you have to expand the galaxy and you need to think about who the new audience is. That's what I feel that I did. And that's what I feel all the people that I worked with over the last decade did, the highest bring in a new audience. I think we did find new characters that continues to find, we continue to find new characters. The lows. The lows are that you have to have a, you've got a very, very small percentage of the fan base that has enormous expectations and basically they want to continue to see pretty much the same thing. And if you're not going to do that,

then you know you're going to disappoint them. I'm not sure there's anything you can do about that because please everybody. All you can do is try to tell good stories and try to stick to the essence of what George created. He embedded incredible values into Star Wars and what it has to say. The whole idea of hope and fun and entertainment is what he's done over all these years and that's what I tried to preserve. And I wouldn't do that any differently and I wouldn't change that what we've done over the years. I understand why some people like certain things more than others, but that's not going to change what I did, why I decided to do certain things and why I decided to work with the people that I worked with. I think everybody that came into Star Wars

space, they love Star Wars and was first and foremost important. You want to have people in coming into Star Wars and wanting to tell stories, yada yada, yada. Back on I want to see, I want to get more into these future films. Let's see. There is it. Hold on a second. Sorry. It's always great when movies make us feel

one way. This is from deadline. I felt it on Oppenheimer most recently on one battle after another, especially in sinners, the audacity of Ryan Cougood of Beer, from that Solchie Blues number in that club to the imagery of people passed and present from Africa to Compton where you could see the connected tissue and historical influences past and present to form of music. Cougar went into that genre sandbox and turned it completely on its ear and made it relevant to everyone as they thought about their own trial

where it's in origin stories. I don't think I'd ever see that in a movie quite like I never thought I'd see a movie like that. I imagine you'd give your IT to have a guy like that see where he could do in Star Wars. Oh trust me, Mike, this is a part of what I try to do. Sit with the people that I would love to step into this thing. But Star Wars isn't really Ryan's thing. The trickiest thing is to find a filmmaker and say you can step into the space and he's still be you. Okay. Let's get to what the fans are eager to know. Progress on films and series by filmmakers who are committed to putting in three to five years. Ryan Johnson, James Mangold, Simon Kimberg, Tyca, where are their projects? I've got to tread care. I have to tread a bit carefully here. Mangold and Bo Willemann wrote an incredible script,

but it's definitely breaking the mold and it's on hold. That's shocking yours. Tyca has turned in a script that I think is hilarious and great. It's not just my decision. especially when I've got a foot out the door. Donald Glover has turned into script, and as you have read, Steven Sutterberg and Adam Driver turned into script written by Scott Burns. It was just great. Anything is the possibility if somebody's willing to take a risk.

I remember when I came into this job, the first thing Iger said to me was be bold. I've always liked that I, because I think you have to be bold. You have to be willing to take risks with people and ideas. Otherwise, you're just doing the same thing. Right now we're in an era where companies are so risk-averse,

and I get it. I hear all the conversations that got Wall Street to please, and I get it. but I also believe that's what contributes to things that's appearing. I just think you have to take chances. Everything I just reeled off to you is just taking a chance because none of those filmmakers are just walking in trying to do same old, same all.

I'm excited by that, but the studio is nervous about that, and that's where it sits. And then you ask for Ryan Johnson. Clearly, Ryan Johnson thing isn't going to happen. We said a long time ago. Okay. So that's good enough to kind of dive into this at the moment. So I think that the thing that Winston that makes me at the very end of it,

that I hope what made Marvel work, and speaking that we've talked about, with this being a Capes and Cal show adjacent today, one of the things that made Marvel MCU work so well from phases one to three, there was a clear-cut plan. They had an idea of where they wanted to go from each movie. They would kind of design certain things

that ultimately would go there. They'd bring in someone like a Ryan Googler, and they say, look, we want your stamp on this. We want you to make this your thing, but we need it to be able to go here. And some directors didn't like that. Some directors took off and said, well, I want to make my own thing.

And I don't know. Well, we have, we have an agenda. We've got to go somewhere. Put your stamp on it. But take us here in a way that they do like Peyton Reed and Ant Man, right? Star Wars has not done that yet. The new regime in Star Wars. And Kathleen Kennedy just said it.

It's like all these filmmakers come out of me, they have great ideas. But what's your idea? What's your idea of the overall arc that these filmmakers can contribute to. And do you think that will change? I mean, I would take what you said and say that it was actually worse than that. It wasn't just that she didn't have ideas. She would say, yo, that sounds hell of good.

I'm a little too afraid, though, to let you actually do it. Like she even said, she was like, so-and-so turn to the script. It was awesome. And so, like, there is even an idea to trust other people's ideas. And it felt like at a certain point she stopped doing even that. So I think that, yes, that is something that will have to change. Again, based

off of what you're talking about with Faloni, I hope we don't end up in a situation where yeah, yeah, as an idea, but it's so rigid, you don't bring anything in. Right. But there is something to be said about somebody that knows that maybe they don't have the full where, they know a few things, but they don't have the full wherewithal,

but they hire the right people. to do it. If you're going to keep hiring these people and making announcements that you're hiring these people, but then you don't actually let them do the thing that they were going to do, I think that was probably the biggest curse out of the last Jedi split that ended up happening and how people felt about Ryan Johnson. It put the type of fear in her that she became almost indecisive. And then even where like the flip-flopping of, well, no, Ryan's gone, but then put JJ on the rise of Skywalker. We got the- Well, no, it was before for JJ. It was, it was, it was, It was Colin Travaro and then she got rid of him.

Well, it was Ryan and then Chavarro and then you're right. And then JJ, so that that whole scenario, then again, she just listed all the different people that turned stuff in that they never like kind of go forward. To be fair, in this interview, though, to what she said, it seemed, Chris, like she was alluding to not that she wasn't willing to take the risk. It seemed like she was that the studio was saying, no, we're not taking risk. But she wasn't calling out Disney particular, but she was saying, in order to make these movies work i get you got to answer to wall street but you got to you got to take some shots that was my

interpretation too of calling out as a whole this industry is very risk adverse and we've seen it time and time again but on that same note we've seen when tiny little films with small budgets get like some kind of push behind them just because of some kind of belief you know you look at some of the stuff that a 24 is done you look at gosh k-pop demon hunters the big push that they did with that You know, you can have great success if you take that big swing and really believe in what you've put out there. And to me, that's the other part of this is, yes, this industry is risk-adverse. Yes, you do need to take chances. We need studios to stand behind those chances, too.

Because how often have we seen with Disney in particular? We're just going to kind of drop it. We're just going to kind of throw it out there. And we've talked about it on here before, too, of stand behind your choices, really, really own up to the stuff that you've made when we're When somebody feels cringy about their own content, we all feel it, right? We know it. It's the same kind of thing as when you watch the office and you feel that secondhand embarrassment. You feel that from the studios when they casually release something.

So for twofold, I think that's something that Kennedy addresses here, but not enough of we do need to take risks, but we also need to champion those risks, stand behind them, and then give the people who we've bet on that kind of carte blanche, honestly, to go, yeah, go with it. follow what you were doing instead of then doing this weird thing we've seen from Disney through Marvel through Star Wars, etc. Of then, well, let's reshoot some stuff to make it a little bit more palpable. Yeah, the devil's advocate's side to that is that Disney bought an IP that at the time was 1950s baseball, which means it was America's pastime. Yeah.

And by the time they got to more risk being made, it was now, pickleball, which pickleball is still a big thing, but it's not, it's like compared to, you know, I mean, shit, we could even call it, um, miniature golf at this point, um, because it's not, I know. Yeah, it's not football. It's not baseball. It ain't hockey. Like it's just, there's no love behind it right now.

There's just not. It still has, it still has the, the, um, potential. And so if you're Disney, you're going, hey, we don't need risk right now. We need safe because we need a win. Because the argument would be, which I've always said, look, if you go over Kathleen Kennedy's people, and I guess I'm going to answer a super chat early here.

Someone said like, you know, what would you rank her tenure, right? It depends on what you're asking me about. If you're asking me, if I'm hiring her to make money for me in the theater, she's going to get a B plus or an A minus. As far as Megan, she's only had one loss in, well, two losses, including Indiana Jones. So maybe a B, maybe a B, maybe a B minus. I don't know, maybe, because Indiana Jones is a big loss. There's no world with that movie should cost over $300 million.

It's true. I don't care of COVID or not. It's ridiculous. So minus Star Wars, and then you're pushing in a B plus because Solo, I don't really blame for her with the loss, as I mentioned earlier. Money-wise. She made $2 billion on the first one. She made a lot of, whatever you think. I'm not a, I don't like the last shot.

I made a lot of money. Rogue one made a lot of money. Rise of Skywalker, yes, it didn't make as much. You know, still made a billion dollars in the time of when movies were making a billion dollars. So as an executive, she probably gets on a Star Wars movies, B plus, maybe A minus. As a creative, I'm going C, C minus. because of everything I just said before because if you're Disney, you're going of what I just said with that money.

If you really get the creative of it, then there's no world that Rise of Skywalker shouldn't have made $2 billion. And there's no world where, you know, Last Jedi shouldn't have a... Yeah, Ryan, that's great idea. Have Luke throw the thing over his shoulders. That's going to get everybody on board. I don't give a shit if people say, oh, it was so great that they took that shot.

You cannot argue that it divided and almost destroyed the fan base with one movie. That's not smart when you're trying to build out overall. I don't care what you think. Well, it's such a great smart move. There's tons of Blashti fans. Tons of them. But it divided the fan base. I know, sure.

Chris, tons. I get into these arguments all the time about it. But you can't argue as being a Blas Jedi fan. It divided the fan base. Oh, for sure. Yeah. It did, but I would also argue that there was a way to handle it. And I don't think, let's just undo everything and throw in an ultra-load. We're just randomly alive. No. No, no. Collin-Javaro script was the best. It added both, both of those. Now, whether he would have directed it or well,

who knows. But that I think is, that's what I mean about being so scared into indecision. You were so off-put by what happened instead of making minor. adjustments and staying in the course or whatever you you did a full 180 and the problem with that is is now you don't seem like you stand by your convictions and that is where people start to all of a sudden go yo what who is running the ship what is happening right now like you you you if you are the leader yes you got to take your slings and arrows but you have to like stand up for something and that plan you have a plan Exactly. There was no plan.

Yeah. I said that back in the day. There was no plan. They made money off of the Star Wars name because it was Star Wars. The first one, the Force Awakens was going to make money no matter what. Force Awakens was going to make money. Now you had to, and Rogue One making a billion dollars was them going, all right, Star Wars is moving. Star Wars, we got this.

And then that's when it just started to fall. But as far as the other movies, I still don't think we're ever going to see a Tyke a movie, nor do I think that we should. Because in that article, she said, oh, I read it. It's hilarious. No, thank you. No, thank you. I don't think we need a hilarious Star Wars movie right now. We don't. We need to get to push back on what she said a little bit to.

And I think a lot of people will push back on me for saying this. I don't think it's just about people just wanting the old when it comes to Star Wars. It's not just about that's not what people are upset about. it's the feeling in the essence of what was there, whether it was the feeling in essence of the prequels or the feeling of the essence in the original trilogy, even in Rogue One, that feeling has been, is gone.

Like even, like, Acklead didn't really feel like a Star Wars show. Like the Boba Fett on the volume, didn't really feel like Star Wars. It is like, there's something about it. Mandalorian season one and season two did. And that combined new with a bit of the old. So you're kind of combating or contradicting yourself there because what you did with

Maint-Lorian season one, season two, and the reason the fan bases came together is because you found that formula for those two seasons of how to get everybody on board. Most people, the majority of people love those two seasons, even the haters, the fart in the back, everybody. Most people. So that's what you can find inside of it. You can do an old republic show that is. new, fresh, new characters, not Star Wars related,

Skywalker related, that still feels like the essence of Star Wars in the way that Knightsville Republic did. So I don't agree with the way that she put that. Because there are some people that, I want to see Vader and everything. Yeah, sure, those people, you know, that Vader's done. I'd like to see certain stories if he's going to pop up and you're able to use them in the way that you, and again, she's contradicting herself. They want to see some of the old. Well, you put Vader in Obi-Won. He says some of the old. did it terribly. You did, you, you, you threw in a new character in there that, nothing against her. It didn't work. Character didn't work. Nobody wanted to see that.

You know what this is coming back to, Christian? And I think it's, the, I'm starting to decipher specifically through what you're saying, where we're running into trouble. This isn't being made from a place of creativity. This is being made from a place of just business. Just business. And that will always falter. It's all business, but it can't be just business. Right. Like the, the, the, the, the, The secret of show business is the show part. If you legitimately are so worried about the numbers, it doesn't mean that you don't think about the numbers.

But if you are only worried about the numbers and how will we go make a billion dollars, you're going to suffer because why people are connecting is the passion that comes through. So what Favro and Faloni started off doing with the Mandalorian, we could feel the passion in it, and that it read like a Western, it read like classic Star Wars,

it gave us the stuff that we wanted. And Obi-Wan, at the end of Mainland was his season two, whatever, Boba-Fet walks in, Bibfortuna's there, and murders him right there and takes him out, murders him. He's like, that's the show, I'm in. And then he's like, I am Boba-Fet. We know who you are. Kill somebody.

Yes. It's like, it was horrible. They didn't even know what they were doing anymore. And it was, like you said, Power Rangers in space, it's like they lost the narrative of it. Like, so I don't buy into the nonsense. All fans just want to see the same shit. No, fans like when you do shit like you did at the end with that Bobafet scene, but then deliver on it. Deliver on the stuff that you were already setting up and deliver on good writing and deliver on good production and build on it.

Fans don't just want to see the old stuff. We want to see good stuff. And you didn't give us good stuff. And so I don't buy into that narrative. They just want to see the old stuff. They just want to see Luke and everything. It's not the case. So anyway, that's a lot of stuff.

I don't want Bobfet to be a dare officer. No. Right. Why didn't Boba Fett feel like a mix of a dare officer and Smokey the bear at the same time? They ran into the same thing that they did when they made Maleficent a good guy. It's like Boba Fett was challenged more than he was, again, to combat what she said about, you know, they just want to see the old. Well, when you brought Boba Fett back into Mandalorian season two, you did it masterfully with that Robert

Rodriguez stuff. He did it masterfully in the way that he played it and he was kind of, he had that edge to him. You saw, oh, that was the guy that I saw on Empire Strikes back. He's older now, but that's the guy. And then you turned him into this thing in season two. Even Tomor knew, I talked too much. I had the helmet on. I had the helmet off too much.

Should have been, you know, doing who Bobo was. Bro, that was, I have said this multiple times about why that Halo series was garbage and a lot of it had to do with the fact that you went outside of what worked is, is, don't take the helmet off because in Halo because it's anybody could be the master chief. You if you want to do this like the finale or something fine, but don't do it.

No. And I love the, the mysterious Boba Fet who just came in through a damn. That's right. And maybe this is part. That's right. Maybe this is part of the take chances side of it, right? Like because Favreau sold a false bag of goods with that show because what he said was,

this is going to be the Sopranos of Star Wars. I'm like, sign me up. Bro. Sign me up. And I was like maybe, maybe Rodney Soprano who lives in, in, in Jersey and hasn't like got off his couch in 25 years. Maybe that, maybe that's who was based off of. But it was, it had nothing to do with that. And like that maybe that's where the risk, maybe they had a show like that where the bad, he was just bad dude doing gangster shit.

And then Disney's like, we can't have a gangster in a kid show doing the whole thing. It's like, that's when you need a leader to fight and say, no, that's our story. That's what we're doing. You see what really responded, and how the audience really responded to him, just cold-blooded, blooded murdering Bobbifififortuna. That's the show. Deal with it, Eiger.

On top of the fact that if you do feel like you have to make an adjustment one way or the other, I don't have a problem learning that maybe this person wasn't such a bad person initially, and then we figure out why we got here. You know what I'm saying? But you need to be pushing towards. is why he kills without regard. You can't just all of a sudden be like, he didn't ever really want to do, you know, like,

it was a phrase. Someone brought up. Someone just brought up, well, what about Andor? Because Andor, we got Andrew, so I don't know. This is why I give Kathleen Kennedy credit and Flonny less. Because Filoni was very involved in Boba Fett. He was very involved in, in, Obi-Wan and all this stuff.

He's very involved. I don't give a shit what you hear. He was not very involved. Tony Gilroy is like, okay, hat, I'm good. And Kathleen Kennedy knows Tony Gilroy. She knows him. She brought him in. She had the conversation with him. It's also a reason why if anybody ever argues with the fact that

Gareth Edwards didn't direct Rogue One, well, then why didn't Gareth Edwards direct Andor and produce Andor? Why did they get Tony Gilroy to do it? So Tony Gilroy was brought in, and Tony Gailroy was brought in, and Tony Gey Gilroy brilliantly put this whole thing together and said, I'm doing my thing. And Kathleen Kennedy, as a good producer, said, Tony's got it. He's got it. I'll help you out.

What do you need? And she did it. This is when she gets the credit of, that's the idiot that said, I don't give her credit for Andor. You're wrong. Give her all the credit in the world for Andor. But it's the Flonny aspect of the creative side. He wasn't, I'm not saying he didn't have conversations with Gilroy. I'm sure he did.

But he wasn't like, he wasn't going to be like, well, maybe you should do this. this. He's like, okay, maybe you should go to the bathroom and I'll talk to you in a couple hours. You know, it's like, you're not going to tell. What do you tell Tony Gilroy? So, yeah, so that's where, that's what happened. She trusted it in, because when you have season one and season two of Mandalorian of Chris's back, I want to make sure. Um, so when you have season one and season two of Mandalorian and they do well, if you're Kathleen Kennedy, you, okay, guys, what do you got next? And they go, we're going to do this thing. We're going to do this. We're going to do that. And why they gave Obi-won such a piss-poored budget is beyond you.

thing costs like $80 million when you're giving the act like 240. What the hell are you doing? Hey, I mean, I still think the most egregious, and you already talked about it, was Indiana Jones. That was, that was the problem. That was, that was bad. Remember when people hated Crystal Skull and then Indy 5 was like, hold my beer. I like Eni5 way better than Crystal Skull.

I like Indy 5, way better. There's a lot. That is very interesting. There's a lot more to Indy 5. I feel like Harrison Ford is actually Indiana Jones in Indy 5. I feel like he's Harrison Ford in like when he when he, damn, how did I miss? Crystal Skull is terrible.

But the last one is not good. Like the ending, the ending, and I actually didn't mind the last one to be completely honest with you. I just didn't, I didn't like the ending. I didn't like that Indy was essentially placed as a side character in his own movie. but when he was there, he was Indiana Jones. I just feel like what I feel like Indiana Jones should do, and this is what I hope.

This is what I actually wished would happen. I wish that they would place Dave Floney back in animation as the head of animation because he thrives there. I would love to see a Dave Flonie animated Indiana Jones series in the vein of what they just did with that last video game. But he's not going to probably feel like it's demotion. But I think Indiana Jones could live there. But anyway, there's so much, we have so many questions still and we only have, you know,

real quick, I was going to say, I disagree with you on the indie thing. I think that that's the Spider-Man meme, bro. For Crystal Skull and Dial a Destiny are equally just, just different reasons. It's just one is Spider-Man 2029 and one is Spider-Man at the end of the Spider-verse. They're the same. Crystal, really, yeah, I don't agree. I just think Crystal Skull is so corny compared to, I mean, there's way more emotional moments that, everything worked for me. Yeah, but then I get pulled out by clearly them trying to, you know,

do the same thing they did with the Irishman where his hips don't move like that. And yet you're still trying to have him. Oh, that beginning one. Yeah. They should have just, they should, they should have done basically what they, they should have done the deep fake more so on. No, but they didn't do that. That's not true, Winston. That's not true. I swore they did because I remember the beginning that was part of the problem. No, no, no. That was that was actually not true. They, they, they put his face on Anthony and Gruber. Um, it wasn't his body. It was his young face on Anthony Gruber

Chris has decided to turn into an alien She doesn't want to be a part of this anymore She's like when they do the interview And mozay Where they're like we have to protect her identity She's Louise All right Let's we're going to get to

Put your thoughts in all this stuff I don't know Poor Jonathan I don't even know he's going to cut this all out We've got it up as far as clips So put your thoughts in there anything that we discussed, anything we talked about, what are your overall opinions on it? We're going to get to all your questions in just a moment here, but I got to tell you about Rougiette. Do that right back. Thank you to Rougiette. The links are in the description.

Please go and check it out. As I said, you help out the show when you help out yourself. You know what I want to do? I'm just the same thing I did yesterday because I'm very curious. I don't think we're going to have the same results as we did yesterday because I don't know how sure I am also because of recency bias, but we'll see. Let's do a poll. hopefully Luke is listening which movie did you like better crystal skull or dial of destiny let's see by the end let's see we'll do a community post and we'll see what the audience has i'm very curious i think i think you guys might win because of recency bias i really do think that um but i'm curious because i saw logan recently made people rewatch it because people make fun of him

because he likes crystal skull he loves it so much and that tracks for who loves is a human. Can there be a third option of they're the same crap? Because that's where I live. And that is fair. I don't think it's as corny. But we'll see. Yeah, I didn't mind the last one as much.

But there's some really bad stuff. And that there's no, that whole entire ending is ridiculous. Of what? The last one. I mean, both of them, but the last one. Do you not like when Harrison Ford went. Knowledge. Knowledge.

Brad. I should just say that the first three movies that really other ones exist. It's like those two is like Rocky Five. Okay. Burn, click one, became a member.

Thank you. A lot of great membership benefits at the moment. We have our live stream coming up pretty soon. All that and more. Okay. Nathan Drake. Everyone can grab on, Kathleen Kennedy,

all they want. But two of my favorite Star Wars things happen under her, Rogue One, and Andor. And she championed for Android getting made. 100%. There's no, there's, there's no world. Like, like you said, there's tons of, there's tons of coaches who have won big games. And they did a lot for the franchise.

And they did a lot for their, their team. And then they, as Winston said, they made it to the playoffs a couple of years later. And they just couldn't do it anymore. So it's time, it's time to go maybe to a new team. It went some championships there. All right. Next one. Gregory, Dobscher.

Who will believe is Krishna? I don't recognize this host, as you know. Chris and Winston, who is? I know. I'm kidding. I know you've been super busy. Look. I know L.A. was, what a whirlwind that was. I still don't know what time's on them on right now. Man, dude. I've been back and forth to L.A. twice. It was, it was interesting. Did you have one more trip? Not, not for like another month or two. Oh, okay. So not, not, I can't, I wouldn't be able to do that. I would, I would, physically wouldn't be able to do it.

It was, it was too exhausting to go to go to go from Tuesday, then Wednesday, Wednesday, Thursday. No, when we get back on. Yeah, total. Wednesday, it was back in the office. Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, I worked. Then we can do whatever. And then right back on the plane on Monday. So that was, it was interesting. Ray, Kathleen Kennedy, stepping down.

Coach Thompson's stepping down. We are definitely in a new timeline. We are indeed. True. Stargirl. Is anyone watching A-1000 blows on Disney? I don't know what that is. It's based on a real woman who are gangsters during Victoria in London

with Stephen Graham and Aaron Dardy from adolescence. Second season is out in Sprillion. No, I don't know. Do you guys know? that is? I've never heard of this. I'm going to Google it right now. I love hearing about new stuff. Swazi 8455. Hall of Fame run. Laughing my ass off. I would love for Winston to debate neuronic on this. The views would be so crazy for. Star Wars is irrelevant because of her. Well, first of all,

no, it's not irrelevant because of her. It's like, look, I think, I think it's devalued. I think that the brand, I think that the brand is weakened since she took power. I don't think there's an argument against that. Of course. But Hall of Fame run as far as you're, This is someone who wrote that. No offense. You just don't know the business side of things, right? Because if you're talking, like I said before, if you're talking creative, you might have an argument.

You might have an argument of where it goes overall. If you're talking business, you still have out of the movies you put out, let's say there's the Indiana Jones movie, which is a stinker, solo, which is a stinker, right? As far as money goes, Horse Awakens, Rogue One, Last Jedi, by as a Skywalker. I don't care what you thought about the movies.

Money-wise. They all made money. Executive and producing wins put you in that, all her other wins, Hall of Fame. As far as creatively, another conversation. Again, which is why I use the Tomlin analogy, I won't go super deep into it, but again, when you have no losing seasons,

regardless of you not doing that, that's something that no coach has ever done. It's the same thing. She's still pulled out billions, for these movies in an era where that is even when it was happening a lot more often, it was not a guarantee. And she still made it happen. The Force Awakens almost made a billion dollars domestically. That's what I'm saying.

So like, yes, it was. It doesn't mean you can look at Hall of Famers in any sport or any type of situation. You could look at Oscar winners and go, man, the Revenue actually wasn't that good of a movie. But, you know, it was fine. And Leo's been doing his thing. So like, you know, I don't know. I thought it was middling it best personally. But anyway, but the bear was the best part.

The bear deserved the Oscar. All right. But, but, but the argument, though, again, depending on, there wasn't enough character, I guess, characters inside of this super chat to emphasize or what he was saying, but are you talking about as far as, if you're now, if the argument is, if Winston would have said, look,

she's one of the best things that ever have in a Star Wars, she's a Hall of Fame, Star Wars executive. That's not I'd think you're wrong. She's not. She pretty much, she did dilute the brand overall creatively. She'd hurt the brand. She did, I think, creatively. But money-wise and everything else, too, I don't, I don't, I don't, you'd be, it depends

on what you're arguing. So I don't think you can puff your chest out the way that you did the right, because you didn't really, you didn't explain yourself well enough. All right. Alan Smithy, don't forget about the non-existent Willow TV show. That's true. that's another that's another loss that can't be legally viewed by anyone anymore somehow will will return wait no he didn't that that's another loss that was not that was that was that was handled

that that show I was handled really really badly man it's just stunk the first episode was like maybe this thing has potential I went to the premiere event so I mean it's potential and then oh terrible terrible my question is even with it being that bad do you agree with them just fully just like deading it completely and it just doesn't exist anymore no If you make the show, you got to, you know, you got to let it, let it breathe and live. You got it. Well, because it's not like Batgirl where it got the, you released it. You already released it.

It's like, well, we don't want anybody to see this. There's far worse things on that platform than that. On top of the fact that you already put it out on the internet, okay, the Hall of the Star Wars Christmas special, holiday special still exists. You can go and find it if you need to. I know. So it's not like you actually hit it from anybody. I know.

it's true. So Battery says, and Kathleen had also made the abominations of Indy5 and Willow. Yeah, I mean, she's got losses. She's got losses. They have big losses. No one's debating that. No. She's done some real stinkers.

100%. Nathan Drake, 253. I know you want more zombie stormtroopers. Look, they said into that in one of those articles, by the way, that, you know, that's the thing is that they said that Asoka suffered from it really being such an inside. It's so ironic, too, because she let him. him do this Asoka thing, which is about as much inside baseball for rebels you're ever going to get. Yet she didn't do the Lost Stars book because she said it was too inside baseball.

No one would understand it. Yet Asoka has these things from, if you didn't see rebels, you're lost. I feel if he's not going to give a shit. If you, you want to catch up, go watch my other stuff. My other stuff is good. Watch my other stuff. And then you'll be caught up. I feel like, oh, Sogo season two is not going to change.

It's going to be the same shit. but what I do like about Soka Season 2 is they're shooting in the locations not the volume. I like that. Ray, I think the problem with Star Wars is pholone doesn't recognize Star Wars is big enough for contradictions, big enough for writers with different perspectives. Agreed.

I've suffered because of this, I think. Yeah, I do. I think so. I'd like to get the real story of them. Because if you listen to Roka, where Roka said that he knows people on the inside that said, Pheloni was very involved in me, Leslie changed a bunch of stuff.

I don't know how true that is. I didn't hear that side of it. I've heard things, but I haven't heard that. But I wonder. I don't know. Battery, I'm not hopeful for Filoni. Welcome to Assoco Wars. Let me ask you this, Chris, because I don't know if his ego is small enough that, let's say

Asoka season, because Soka's season one, the rating aren't very good. If season two's ratings aren't good and does, and not reviewed well, Does he stick to his plan and say, no, no, no, we're sticking them what I want to do. We're doing my thing. Or does he actually open his mind and say, okay, maybe people don't want to just see my stories. If he is a good leader, he will do the latter. He'll go, hey, it's not just about me. I do need to pivot and change something.

Because Asoka, even for me, I was like, what is, what is the show? What is happening? Why? Why? And you love rebels. And you love rebels. I love rebels. And I also just kept watching it going, is this the same, Asoka?

that I, I don't know. Or more so, was it the same Sabine? And the answer was, unfortunately, yes, she was still 16 as a 27-year-old. Yeah. There was just a lot of character stuff that didn't make sense for me. Also, I got to book you guys.

Oh, I got to go teach some people voiceover. All right, you do your thing. Thanks for having. All right. Bye. All right, so we got, we'll answer Chris's things if anything comes in there. So maybe if Luke has a double,

as a new lower third we'll get through in the second. Alex, creatively speaking, I think Filoni, much like Lucas, is best kept to a story by credit. Let others pen the script and direct. I mean, I agree with that. I think, like story-wise, like I said, he knows Star Wars. You're never going to get that argument out of me.

And he loves Star Wars. You're never going to get that argument. You're like, oh, this guy's a poser. He's not. He loves Star Wars. He loves the characters. He knows it inside and out and knows so much about it. And he should be that.

guy that's like, you know, there to help people and knowing the philosophy of the force and what it is and all, 100%. But the story, he's not a good writer as far as dialogue goes inside of live action. He's just not. You're kind of talking about George at times. Totally. I mean, that's that when the funny thing is, is I was like, is that what the potentially the mentorship from George was, was like how to really understand a story, but not. necessarily how to make it a script. It's true. Alex follows up and says, thank you, Chris, for saying

Star Wars should be special. I've been screaming from the rooftops for a year. Star Wars is not content. It's an event. I mean, it's certainly going to be an event. You know, well, but isn't that a problem, though? I don't disagree that Star Wars should be an event, right? Like, when you should get really hyped for it. Anybody really hyped for Mandalorian

and Groker? I mean, I think more people are hyped for Starfighter. I'm hyped for it the way that I was like, oh that'd be a fun thing to do right like that's not star wars special no i agree the way the force awakens when a force awakens came out but that you know what's funny but what's but what's bothering me right now is i don't think that that's unique to star wars i think that because so many of these studios and the people that are in charge have oversaturated the market and have really kind of ruined a lot of the brand almost i i i will give marvel credit for

trying to build that hype with how they're doing their marketing, but I'm still in a place where I'm not like, an Avengers movie is coming. I was like, it'll be fun. I still like all the other stories of movies. You're not as invested as you were beforehand. And so that's the whole thing.

It becomes an event because, again, you lead with the passion. Yeah. And that is, I think, where we've been missing? And,

well, there's so many questions in Force Awakens. Like, oh, where is everybody? What's, what's the galaxy looking like? And Starfighter has a little bit of that.

Starfighter has a little bit of that, right? It's like, well, where is everything? And they got a great cast and they got, there's some hope there. And that, you know, one of the things I didn't shoot, I didn't bring this up, and I should bring this up real quick. Hold on.

And Jeff Snyder actually tweeted this out earlier today and said, Simon Kinberg has developed a detailed 70-page treatment for his Star Wars movie, and he's expected to turn in the script by March. The film is expected to launch a new trilogy. All right. So I find that to be, very credible, not only because Snyder's our buddy,

but also because Kinberg and Faloney have a very good relationship. They started rebels together. When the first time I ever interviewed Faloney, it was with Kinber. And Kimberg's Star Wars guy too. And so this was something that I was hoping that the new trilogy had, which was a 70-page treatment and the ideas of where it could go and the essence of we have a plan. and this is how it could further on and go places.

I think that's a good, that's a good start. That's a good start. It definitely is. I just, I think that the one thing that I've kind of said about Kenberg that makes me nervous is he, it is very hit or miss because like, because I understand I, like I haven't seen all of his Star Wars stuff.

Like I haven't seen rebels, so I can't speak on that. But like I think about how multiple, you know, X-Men movies were not good. That's when you know, directed one. ones were not, but there's a lot, you know, it's so hit or miss. You could say a lot of them what he did or not earned good, but then you can say a lot of them are great.

Like so what? Logan. Well, Logan. Yes, but he didn't. He just, he just put, but see, this is the thing. I'm talking about him as a writer. He produced Logan. He produced, uh, he did write days of future past, but he produced first class, but like

he wrote last day. Is he writing, is he writing the script though, too? Didn't you just say he turned in a 70 page treatment? Treatment. I thought that, I thought that, I thought implying that that, that was, he was going to be writing his not necessarily. He might he very well might be. I want to see

which ones. So he wrote yeah he wrote because I'm looking at it right now. I mean he wrote some he wrote some piss. Yeah he did. Dark Phoenix 3.55 Mr. and Mrs. Smith was okay. Fantastic 4 was the Farts. X-Men Apocalypse was the farts. The last

stand was the farts. Days of Future past. He wrote it. Right. But that's what I'm saying. That's more misses than hits. And Totally more racist than it. I'm okay with him producing. I like a lot of the stuff he produced. Right. But like I think about X-Men Apocalypse.

That movie is, is just a tragedy. Like, I got to see if he's writing the script or just writing a treatment. Or just writing a treatment. I heard treatment in my mind immediately goes. Yeah, you could be right. You could be right. All right. into this role like Seth Rogen in the studio, but it already seems likely.

Maybe. But that's why I laughed about the studio being so spot on. It's like that's where my mind immediately goes. It sure than could be greeny from Oz. I'm looking forward to the day that Lucasfilm realizes it has a whole world of material in novels and comics and utilizes that like Marvel and DC. Right. But here's, this is that I kind of stick.

I'm going to go against something that I said in the past, yet still championing it at the same time. I still think for the majority Lucasfilm still needs a regime change for the most part. Well, I just, maybe not, because I think that

the executive is good. I think that the team that's running the video games and visions and all that stuff, leave them. The books, they're doing good. Comics, same thing. Maybe it's just flowing. Maybe just move Floney to animation. give him a shot see what he does and then once it doesn't work out bringing somebody that knows how to do it and

it's too late now well you're gonna give him a couple years look this is the this is the positive place that he's in them and this is what people so get ready for this and clip this out whatever you want to do I don't give a shit you're gonna get videos and everybody's going to talk about what a failure the mandolorean and grogo is when it makes 500 million dollars right because it'll make between 400 and 500 million overall people can go what a failure that is. And that it's inaccurate. Because it's not the goal of that movie. I've said this many times over. The goal of that movie is to take the $150 million budget, instead of losing it on streaming, making a profit and making some money off of it,

putting out an episode of television onto the screen to get kids to go see Grogu, and then it makes $500 million. That's a win for them. So even though people don't care about Star Wars, it only made $500 million, it's going to be a false narrative. It's also going to be a false narrative for people going, Oh, the movie's going to make a billion, $2 billion. You're a lunatic. The wave that, so that'll count as a win. And Floney will get that win now, right?

Even though it's Kathleen Kennedy's win, he'll still get the win. Starfighter will get the win. That one's going to, it's going to get the win. That movie's going to be exciting. As long as it's good, yeah. Right. People are going to be pumped for that one. He's going to be working with, he's going to have a lot more hype behind it,

if he can capitalize on it. So that's why the pressure will be on him, leaving a little bit more. But he's at least going to, right now, they're in limbo. They have nothing. There's nothing out there. By the time you get to that movie,

it's like, all right, let's see what you got. Now, that movie eats shit. You can still say, well, it wasn't his. It wasn't his. But now, but if you have goodwill from the people again with that movie, then you're in a good spot. So we'll see. Yoshimitsu, 5,537,

the best Star Wars since the original trilogy are Andor, agreed. Rebels. Yeah, Calcestus. Yeah. We need someone who can reconcile all that. I'd like to see a Calcastus TV show. I know it was rumored at one point, and it was going to happen.

Very cool. I heard that it was going to happen, but maybe it was shot down. I don't know. Go, pal. Christian's rundown of Dave's record puts me in mind of sympathy for the devil. Was Dave around when Jesus Christ had his moment of doubt in pain? To make sure the pilots watch his hand. It's true.

That's my favorite Rolling Stone's song. Christopher Brickner. Are you sure if he doesn't like the legends? It's not that he doesn't like it. He won't make. There's a lot of stuff. But let's see. And O' Republic, because Flonny likes to include legend elements in Clone Wars and almost put Darth Revin and Clone Wars episode. There's, there's tons of characters that he's, guys, he used Thron. He used Thron.

He was a fan of the Timothy Zon stuff. He said it many times over. It's the majority of this stuff, the things that Lucas didn't like and things that he just won't explore. He's not going to go down. He's not going to try the books. He's not going to try all those things. He's not going to go down that road. Maybe I'm wrong.

any changes. I'm going to love to eat my words if I hear, like, they're going to adapt James Lucino's Darth Plague as a dark series on Disney Plus, Dave Filoni's first business. I'm going to go, I'm a moron and look at that. He's working with James Lucino. He's actually adapting the books. I'm an idiot and good on Dave. That's a win. But from what I hear, it ain't going to happen. So using those characters and certain characters, sure. sure but the essence of the Darth Reven's story and all i mean like Darth bain was put into the clone wars dark being was in the clone wars and mark hamill voiced them so characters sure but the overall stories and arcs and what made them special no dude reverence so cool so good hey

mr cj this will be a day long remembered hashtag i wish i know it's true uh house grove Winston and Chris thoughts on the winter anime season. I'm going to get Winston's on this. Any favorites? Since to be a hero, JJK, Ashinoco, Hells Paradise, we're eating good in 2020. I mean, we are eating good right now. JJK, I just watched the first of the three episodes that are out, and I'm already in. I can't wait for the Cullen Games, I believe, is what it's called, this next arc. And then Fire Force is finishing out, too.

Like, there's a lot of good stuff right now, especially considering my hero last last fall was good, but God, one punch man was awful. So I'm looking forward to this season of Phaname for sure. All right. The series over here on his channel, like Mission Encompass, and like now I can finally retire.

I mean, look, I'm sure people are, you know, it's, it is time for a new start. So whether or not Floney can, you know, um, accomplish the goal or not,

it's good to have new fresh blood. It's good at fresh blood. Let's just see if he can deliver. It's going to be like they said, clone wars again. Christopher Berkner Do you believe that Lucasfilm

shouldn't use Luke Skywalker anymore? No, I don't believe that. There are many great legend stories about Luke fans love and there is the band for more Luke project mixed with new stories.

No, I don't believe that. I think you can tell different stories with him. I think that you can place him and stuff like whether it was he introduced him in Mandalorian as a character. You can bring him back.

I think that he gave up the whole Grogoo thing what they did with the way he just like, oh yeah, go ahead. And they, I'm, Osoca kind of hinted or I'm going to see you again. You can absolutely use them again.

Now, whether or not they use deep fake or recast them, it's a totally different conversation. But I definitely think that they can use Luke Skywalker again. I hate that the fact that they're scared to use him again because you're worried about, no, you rely on Luke. You shouldn't have to just rely on him. You absolutely should use him down the line. I think it's the fear is coming from the standpoint of again,

they have been doing a lot of nothing but fan service for a while, though. And so, like, it's not to say that you don't use Luke, I agree with you. There's a lot of good stories. I just wish we had done them sooner. And I wish it didn't feel like at times they were almost using him as a gimmick. That I think is part of the problem. When did they use him as a gimmick?

I mean, I personally loved him at the end of Mandoah 2. I thought that that was great. When are they used him as a gimmick? But I'm saying like the way people talk about him in The Last Jedi, you were going to need to use him anyway. But like the way that they talked about it wasn't actually. but he was necessary. But that's, but that's what I mean is that instead of it feeling necessary,

it feels forced at times as part of the issue. And I think when you talk about how it feels like, well, now you use Grogo every two seconds. I think maybe that's probably where that fear is coming from one way or the other. I just feel like they, a lot of times people feel like, oh,

Star Wars can exist outside of just Luke Skywalker, which I don't disagree with. I just think that you can also not be scared to use them. And I think that there was a rumor like they were going to do like the whole, we're, Flonnie's movie that you're supposed to direct was rumored to be kind of based off of the Zon stuff, which almost contradicts what I was talking about with, you know, air to the empire of them not adapting books. I think it would be different. They have to be different because timelines

are different. But Luke is a crucial part of that. And it would also not make sense. Right. And like, so this is what, this is another thing that I'm talking about where Luke made sense to come back in season two to be the only, he's only Jedi powerful enough that would sense grove, right? What kind of degenerate would this guy be if they bring, like, I understand why he doesn't get involved in the Soca season one. He's no, he's, he's, he's not there. He's not around. Like, if you are the most powerful Jedi and all, and they bring it back, and all the shit's going down with Thrawn, the empire again, and you don't get involved, it's one of two things. You're a shit Jedi or lazy writing. He's, he's there. Like, so it's like, oh, you use Luke

again. Yeah, because he's there. It's relevant to use. He would show up if he knew he would sense it. I would know. He would sense it. He would know what's going on and he would sense it and he'd fight Thrawn. So it would make sense to use him. So I think that I heard, maybe I'm wrong, that that was more of a Kathleen Kennedy decision.

Maybe Faloni feels the same way? I don't know. Should they continue the Skywalker legacy? Now, that's another conversation. Depending on what they're going to do with it, how they're going to going to go with it, where they're going to go as far as Skywalker's. I don't know if you need to tell any more Skywalker stories in the future. I still think, Ray Ho, stupidest moment ever.

What are you doing there? I always say that with that old lady. What is she doing there? There's like a shopping cart with socks in it. What are you doing? You're just in front of my house. The only thing that would have been funnier, bro, is if it had been like a real, like a space real estate agent, taking it.

couple of us this this farm you know it was blown out by stormed me more sense who is who is this right like she was like boltering the the the Skywalker's place like and she's like well what are you doing here I've recruited oh we gotta get out of here we thought we were gonna get we thought we were gonna make some money on this thing since she's just hanging out in front of the in the middle of the desert who are you I'm ray ray ray ho it's like my mother when the neighbors would come home too late and play loud music dude oh oh what are you doing My kids are trying to sleep. Ray-ho.

Worst scene ever. Battery, I would love to see you discuss the Kathleen Kennedy legacy with Roka. He was pretty defensive and gave her time a B-minus. What grade would you give Lucasumran? I mean, I would ask Roker the same thing. I feel like Roker and I would probably be on the same page with this, though, because I think when it comes to, you know, if you're judging creatively or you're judging as an executive to make you money, I think the rating is different.

Like, you know, if you're asking me again, what I think she did overall as Lucasfilm president creatively, C-minus, C-minus, not good. An overall executive to make me money with movies, including Indiana Jones, B-B-minus. I am two-fly camp. Kathleen Kennedy taught us all the forces female. She may be a Hollywood legend, but she damaged her brand to the point of irrelevant. when Star Cruiser Hotel says high. I mean, so again, this is the thing where when it comes to the brand rating

and gave her the C-minus, because she did not help the overall brand in collectively bringing the fan base together. So there you go. Greeny from us, if you had the keys to the Kingdom of Lucas film, which directors, writers would you put to develop the next Star Wars film or even trilogy?

The only thing I'm going to be a broken record on here, I'm going to give you partially one of your answers. here I am to fly cam is um or sorry greeny um is um I would take I would make sure that my writers from my novels who have been knee deep in this material Claudia Gray drew Carpeesian Alexander freed James Lucino I make sure they were in writers rooms I would put them in writers rooms and for television shows it doesn't novel writers don't always transfer over to being able to write scripts. No, not at all. But they know the stories and they can be in the writer's room. I would have them in part of the

writer's room and I would also hire screenwriters from hit television shows to write for Dave Filoni and get his ideas and his thoughts and then turn that into and don't let him write the scripts anymore. Well, that's fair. I answer like Ham Ray movie announced three years ago still no script. Why? Because it's the same shit that they were doing. They can't do that anymore. They got

stop doing that. Hey, look, you excited? Ray and the Shanaida, Shanaida, it's coming. That's the part where, and it's funny because you even mentioned it with like some of the announcements about how, who are you saying wasn't good at doing those and it wasn't Kathleen? It's, that's the show part of show business. Like, it's not just the business of, and we have this great new product. You need to, you need to Steve jobs.

Oh, and one more thing. Boom, off bone, son. Like you, you, you, you try that with Patty Jenkins. remember she came out with the with the helmet on and she's like this story means so much to me because my dad was pilot and this like wow that's cool and then just kidding that's not happening it's like stop doing that yeah don't announce stuff until you until you're ready to start shooting we've been on the same page with that with every brand at this point like just stop it because like they do it more than anybody no i agree i like well the only one worse was the dark universe that

lasted one movie and the whole thing just i don't still think it was worse if you if you have If you went through, dude, if you went through the amount of people that they have announced and got rid of it's crazy. It's crazy. It's pretty bad. Big Bang, OT4. Go 100 years into the future with a new Jedi order. I don't know yet. I mean, let's look.

I am excited to see if they get the right writers and new leadership to direct where, I think that as Kathleen Kennedy was saying in that interview. and as I was joking yet serious, this Sean Levy movie, if it makes a lot of money, you bet your ass there'll be a sequel and they'll leave it open to having a sequel. But what this is also very important doing is it is setting up the landscape

of what that galaxy looks like five years after the new trilogy. That will also shape what Simon Kinberg does. Because he has to be led in on it. this goes back to the whole thing we're talking about with some with the Marvel side. It's like, okay, well, they're collaborating. Sean Levy needs to set this up and you would hope. And Kenberg's like, well, what is it? Oh, your thing is this?

Well, let Ray is doing this. I think Ray makes an appearance in the Sean Levy thing. And I think Ray has a big part to do in Kenberg. And I think that's why the Ray movie has been on the back burner. I think she's going to be a major part of the Kinberg. That makes sense. I don't believe that. Johnny Patrice, Star Wars Visions, you would like a film of. man i i have to go back and there are so many things in the star wars you've seen star wars visions right i the first season okay first season uh but there's there's one about like the sith like

i can't remember what it was i'd have to go back and watch it's been such a long time but there's there's tons of stuff i'd like to see some of those writers in a writer room too prady damon and aflick ron rogan they said a 25 million movie has to make a hundred million to break even that's the math and today most movies can't even break even that's why we chose Netflix for RIP. Yeah, I mean, that's, that's the way the business is going now. It's crazy that $25 million has to make $100 million, but that's that's that's that is so, so now you're, you're, it's three times. Well, 25 times. That's four times. Jesus. Well, think about it. Well, let's say, let's say at the marketing for that movie, a $25 million dollar movie is 30 million or with, but with,

yeah, let's let's, let's say $25 to $30 million on that. Plus it's got to make another 25. So it's got to make 80, right? So 80, 20 years, yeah, it's got to make a hundred, close to $100 million, close to it. So literally, so literally, yeah. You're going to make its budget back plus marketing and a couple other things. So it's, it's rough. So that, that's what I'm saying, though. The fact that it's gotten up to roughly four times, though, that's, that's pretty nice. I mean, it's always been like the budget plus marketing. Markings. Well, no, I understand, but I always thought that that was like two and a half before it was a lot of people. Either way, it's crazy. Either way, it's crazy. And the other thing

that doesn't go into it before. I think it was Matt Damon that talked about on a previous shows was that's not what's the way that they would recoup a lot of stuff is that once, well, you know what, maybe you didn't make as much in the theaters. Well, we'll make it back on Blu-Rays and DVDs

and now you don't have that anymore. Yeah. Well, the Blu-Raein DVDs are the main thing. Are gone. Well, sure. Yeah. C.B. The Legend.

How the reporter reporting that Doomsay Trailers reached one billion views. Yeah, I mean, it's getting good. It's getting good hype. That's the thing. They are building it out as an event, and I will give them credit for that. Nathan Drake.

apologies. I do love that guy. Hey, Mr. C.J. Kennedy will return an adventurous Doomsday. Maybe Galaxy Geeks. There he is. Why does anime excel a deep storytelling and world building while franchises like Star Wars struggle to maintain cohesion and vision?

To quote Chris Carr, leadership and bad writing. And also just a that you're talking about an entire genre versus one IP. You know what I mean? I think that's the other thing that makes it a little bit trickier is that there are plenty of anime that that are terrible and bomb but like the genre versus just saying star wars as like an individual brand if that makes

what is this pretty mark safe from christian's power do i have power hunger today i don't know what that means yeah you know what just because i read it so you're marked safe i can still do this watch this where is it put them in time out you can still put you in time out Maybe I can't, maybe you're right. Maybe you are safe. You're safe, son of a bitch. It's true, I can't. Oh, you fucker.

You are. Nice. Good move. He's laughing his tits off. All right. Dancing Dog 60. Mystery works. It's why Nolan and Goyer's Joker works.

Keeps changing his backstory. No fingerprints. He's a chaos agent. That's how we all know. Mystery. I mean, more mystery for sure. Ray. As long as we are airing our grievances to Moore Morrison should have

spent the $5 and let him show his face in the Asoka Flashback episode. Maybe they were afraid he would steal the spotlight and cast a shadow. I mean, I don't know. I just, it seems a broken record, bad writing and not and just too worried. Dancing dogs. You know, and I got these scars. Right. Disney should have spent.

Oh, that's what you were saying. Disney should have spent. Dancing Dog 60, this is a tip for the Pecker Pillar ad. Hey, yo. Hey, hey, yo. Don't do a tip. Just buy some of the pecker pills. Red Bear 134 became a YouTube member. Congratulations. I was happy to have it. We have a lot of new members. Derek Johnson put a lot of new people in there yesterday. Nice. Okay. Go pal, didn't see Crystal Skull, but I liked Dial of Destiny. Yeah. All right. Oh, I wonder what the poll is right now. I wonder what that. Let me see. Let me see if.

It's right now Crystal Skull is winning like 54. 46. Let's say. Uh, yeah. Oh, no, 58, 42. Oh, it's shifted. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, I figured as much with, um, recent. Oh, I'll, oh, maybe mine's behind or whatever. All right. Let's see. Uh, the G man. Hello, everybody on the issue of the announced project with Ray at Star Wars Celebration. Does the actor get a paycheck while waiting for filming to start? I don't know what her contract is for that. I mean, she signed that. I'm supposed to be like $20 million or something crazy, right? Or $12 million. Something crazy that she got. for that for coming back. So I don't, I don't know. Or maybe they just put it, maybe inside of the contract is this says something like, we're going to,

we're going to put you in a movie in general. We want you to come back for whatever the movie might be. And it doesn't necessarily have to be that movie. So that, hence the Kinberg thing and all that other stuff. The beauty with that is, I know, she's only what? 34 years old,

35 years old. Something like that. Even if she was 40, which she isn't. the age for this story works. Like sometimes you're like, you know, when we're talking about like Blade, you're like, you only do over so long

because Myershala's getting older. Right. With the, the wiser, the Jedi, the better. No, I agree. That's a character that that actually works. I mean, the first introduction to a Jedi was an old Obi-Wan. Yeah, and that's why I loved,

I loved Lindelof's take on it. Lindelof wanted to do, he wanted Helen Mirren is Ray. Oh, interesting. He wanted to do that, far into the future. He wanted to do Helen Mirren. I would have loved that. It would have been great. Dark Smirk 1. Seeing Kong versus Godzilla in the theaters tonight. I am hyped to see it. I love Mando.

Oh, sorry, Mando. I love Monarch Season 2 trailer. Excited to see the new GVK movie next year. I saw a lot of Monarch and liked it. I just never finished it. Did you watch it? No, I never saw it. Yeah, it was pretty good. I mean, another Apple show, I think. Haskell, Tweed-o-de-l-de-l-l-D-D-L-D-Loo. It's the best. I got a little new rendition to one of the, I think for season two,

got a new little rendition to that one. Maddie Watt, how interested are you guys in the live action Naruto from Lionsgate and Destiny Naruto? I mean, I am, but what my concern is at the end of the day

is always going to be casting with that. There had been a lot of rumors that they were going to put, and then people started using AI to do it, Tom Holland as Naruto, and I can't think of a worse idea. But, but no, overall I'm excited for it.

I just, you, anytime you take an IP like that, you just cannot stray too far from the lore. I worry about that. I hope they go more one piece than, you know, say,

like how would be Bob. All right, let's see. Haskell. The Game of Thrones intro is also well known. Yeah, you know, Dinklish,

Peter Dinklage, and F the Dodgers and playing Kyle Tucker four years, 240 million. Yeah, too much. Jesus. Christ.

Too much. The Gman, another loss for Kennedy. They announced Matt, Smith was cast and rise as a Skywalker. Then he was out. Who was he playing? Why was he out?

Yeah, that was a long time ago. And I, people got on me for that because I was like, well, Matt, if Matt Smith says he's a liar, because he's in the movie, he's supposed to be in the movie. And then people, oh, see, he wasn't. I was like, no, he was cast. And he put his stuff in there. He was in it. And from what I've heard, he played like a version of Palpatine younger.

Hmm. That was the rumor. I don't know. True it is, but forgive me. I got to run. All right, you got to go to. Yeah, I got out of here. myself. Get out here. All right. I'll let you know if you lose. All right. So funny you talk

about animation. Indiana Jones. Apparently was developed by visions creative, but canceled by Lucaso. I wonder if that's true. I haven't done any research on that. I should do some research. But I wonder maybe because you could see that. They got scared at the movie didn't do well and they think nobody cares anymore. But then you look at the game and it's done so well. Draw it. In my opinion, I think Lord Miller should have been able to finish their version of soul. I believe that it would have much better than Ron Howard version. Maybe. Last will never know.

No, I want to know what it was. Unheard Sirens Incorporated, 236. Christian back talking Star Wars. I originally discovered you around 2015. Remember you convinced Ray's staff belonged to Plagueis. Good times. Yeah, I was. I was totally convinced.

And I thought that it would be, that would be a thing that would make sense. That was the other thing that that was, but it's funny you bring that up because it was like, there were things that could have connected all of it together. And they didn't even connected in the third. that in rides of Skywalker it was calling for you could have connected all of Darth Plague's stuff to how he can he was able to show Palpatine how to cheat death that's why I thought they were

going with it we're going to show him how to cheat death like okay the ties all the way back to the prequels there you go instead the first time he's like George McFly on the tree look at the accolade stupid um Hitchcock. Babu Frick supposedly lived in Rise of Skywalker because Spielberg asked Abrams where he was at one point. At what point do we think Spilberg is just trolling Abrams with his input?

Ah, I don't think he's trolling him. I think he's, you know, he's, he's, he's a good old grandpa, too. He likes to have fun and that's maybe one of his, I love Bobbufric. Dancing Dog 60. Like Star Wars, the new, next generation, I'll start like Star Trek the next generation.

Went into the future to Fordger, Kirk and Spock. Star Wars needs to leave the Skywors. Skywalker Saga behind. They got to move on to Funky Town of the song. But again, like, what do you mean? Like not incorporate them anymore, not put them in there anymore. I don't disagree. I don't agree with that. But to focus on particular Skywalker stories, I don't think they need to do anymore. Haskell. Hey, Willie. Ray Ho. Unheard. Syrians Incorporated. Kennedy constantly canceling project. It's an SNL bit. Yeah, it is. And they can't continue that legacy. They just can't. King of the Wicker people in 9450. This is kind of. Kathleen Kennedy's career deserve a critical retrospective. Totally. Her time at Lucas from Cleary Show she has no clue about the creative side of things. I don't know about no clue, but creative things in Star Wars was not her strength. She didn't love it.

It wasn't her thing. She shouldn't have been running the creative in Star Wars. It wasn't her thing. She wasn't passionate about it. Creative in general, she's a creative person with other movies and the other things she wants to do. But her impact in the older classic movies is nil to no one. Yeah, I know. That's what I'm saying.

Like it's so let's see what she does in her next project before we say that she has no clue about creative side of things. Clearly she's got a clue on creative side of things from her past movie experience, but I don't think she was the person for the job at Star Wars creatively. She doesn't, I don't think that she was, she cared enough about it. I think she was trying to take on the, you know, the business aspect of it. She needed a counterpart like what she's doing with Flonian and this new new executive. Nathan Drake, Crystal Skull still had a tiny bit of the Spielberg magic. I don't remember one scene from Indy 5. Yay, Indiana is diving into the ocean, just bad.

That's fine. Greeny from Oz. Mandelorian and Grogo box office predictions. I'm going to go, I'll go $510 million. And I think that's how we're shooting it. But I'm going to go $510 million for Mandolian and Groke. And people will think that's a loss. Prady, regarding $25 million movie needing to make $100,000.

million. Don't forget the theaters take 50%. True. Any chance now, Mangold and Ben's solo movie are made. I can't believe the Mangold one is not getting made. That we didn't really talk about that too much. That was the one I was most excited about because it makes it tracks to me again.

Clooney doesn't want to visit that era. It's like the beginning of the old republic and all that stuff. It's like the beginning of the force and all that. I think he probably scrapped it or decided he wanted to do it. I, that's a total speculation. speculation. Russell Lindsay. Christian, did you see Mike crying laughing on Tuesday? No, I got to, you got to send me the time code. I didn't get a chance to. John X. Dragon. Hey, Christian, do you think the new episode trilogy will have a new main protagonist or will it likely follow Ray again, giving how the young actress of the current trilogy are still thoughts? Well, and so that also comes off the heels of the fact that that tweet by Jeff Snyder says that that could lead into a new trilogy, potentially episode.

10, 11, and 12. And they've been hesitant about calling a 10, 11, 12 to scare people off from having to watch the rest of them and speak, you know, one at a time. I think Ray will have a part. And maybe as Winston was talking about, maybe more of an Obi-Wan type character or someone like our mentor type character where you have new people that you would lead. And maybe if this kid from the, from the Roshan Levy movie hits in the way that they're hoping that he will, then maybe he becomes a character. as well. Who knows? Maybe they introduce some new new things. So I don't know yet how they're going to make that work, but I don't think they're going to follow just Ray. I think that they would want to add some new characters and new understanding, maybe some of her new students. Dancing Dog 60, I don't think it's

inside baseball to just jump in from the books. I agree. Star Wars episode four explains the goings on and the crawl, just jump in and move forward. Yeah, I mean, I agree. I think that, but that's what that's what I heard that she thought lost stars was to inside baseball. All right. So 64 is where we landed here today. And longer show. Good show. Oh, there's another one.

Last one. Sorry. 65. What's worse? Obie hiding the kid in the coat. Oh, my God. I forgot about that. Or Hux.

It was me. Both really bad. Both really bad. And don't forget, I'm on. Solo. That was pretty bad too. But, oh, man, Hux, it was me or oh, we want hiding the kid in the coat. I think Hux it was me. But I could change that. I could change that. Core Emperor, any scoops for your new show? Kickstarter. So I brought that up when I got back the other day. I don't know if you missed the show or not. But what we have is that we're now, we're now in like, pedal to the metal.

metal to the pedal, whatever it is, uh, foot's on the gas. And we're coming up with all the tears and the things. I was funny because I was talking to somebody yesterday. I was kind of telling them the overall plan of what we're doing. Like, well, that's really never been done before. That's fucking awesome. I know. I know. It's we're, we're going to be, we're going to really be offering some fun stuff. So we're putting that all together in one particular document when I, when I met that meeting on Tuesday was meeting with the, with the person who's going to be put this all together and brilliant person. So it's all moving pretty fast. All right. 66. Dgging it. Thank you guys. Appreciate it. We'll be back on Monday, myself and John Roka. So I'll be back all next week. I'm here.

I'm going to have, I shot my interview with UFC vet, Keith Jardine, filmmaker and actor now. And he's doing a lot of great stuff. So I had a great conversation with him. We look forward to showing you guys that. And that's it. So thank you again. Thanks to Chris. Thanks to Winston. Appreciate you guys. And we'll see you on the flip side.