The Kristian Harloff Show - Loki S2E3: Ultimate Breakdown & Theories with SPOILERS! | Capes and Cowls

Episode Date: October 21, 2023

Become a Patron!: https://www.patreon.com/TheBigThingShow SPOILER ALERT  Join Kristian Harloff as we dive deep into the latest episode of Loki Season 2, Episode 3! We'll be discussing all the twists, turns, and surprises that this thrilling episode has to offer. If you're a fan of the Marvel Cinematic Universe and love dissecting every detail, this is the perfect discussion for you!  We also discuss Superman and it almost had a very different take if Matthew Vaughn would have been hired to direct a trilogy about the Man of Steel. He described what that trilogy would have been. Deadpool, Daredevil troubles. The Marvel Cinematic Universe needs a win. When will it come? This and more on today's Big Thing Capes and Cowls with Kristian Harloff, Winston A. Marshall and Coy Jandreau.

How's it going, everybody? Welcome back to the big thing, capes and cows. We've got a lot to talk about, man. Loki, episode three, season two. Look, apparently this panel was in the minority. Everybody loved episode two. We didn't, but we loved this one. At least I think, I love this one.

I don't want to speak for the guys just yet, but I think that they loved this one. Matthew Vaughn has been doing a lot of talking. He's been talking about kick-ass, doing a reboot of kick-ass and where that goes. But he also talked to our buddy, Josh Harowitz. about potentially him directing in the DCU, but his take and his pitch on Superman.

So we'll talk about that also. There's some renewals going on in this joint. Looks like Gen V is getting season two, and that's amazing. I haven't seen one episode, but I will. And then the other thing is invincible. Season two is coming out. Well, they already said season three is coming out.

So we got that and more, and there's more stuff that we'll come up with today. on the show. But that's what I got for you. If you haven't already done it, man, we are 4,000 away. 4,000 away from 100,000. And if you hit that button, you can help us get there. So show a little class, hit the button. Let's do it. It is a big thing. It's me and Winston and Koi. Here we go. Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen. Caps and Cowles, big thing. returning from New York Coigandro

Winston A. Marshall The gentlemen are back in town How was your trip overall? One of the best I've ever had, man. I had more pizza this trip than I've ever consumed in my life because I miss it. I've missed it more,

so I like made it a focus for the first time and book into it with Prince Street and both times were the best Prince Street I'd ever had. And I don't know the rain was nice. It was just good to be in weather. It was good. I was also in New York

at the same time, but not at Con. How was your trip? It was great. It was amazing, which is so funny because I was sitting at a family dinner and they're like, how come you're not at the thing? It was initially was the goal was to be there. It was to be there because Katie was going to do a show. And then with the strike still going on and everything, too, we're like, I don't know. Plus the fact we've had one episode that has aired with Bryce Dallas Howard. It's hard to maintain.

You've only aired one? One with a guest. We've done, the other ones have been just her and I. So we have tons of guests in the can. We haven't done it. So what was the point? Jesus. So, but I also had a lot of pizza when I was there.

It was certain places. And speaking of pizza, before we do that, Winston A. Marshall. And Winston, did you see them this week? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Which nights? Just Saturday. Where were they? They were at.

Pladium. Yeah, you have no idea. We're done. Ruther Jules. Oh, you know, Rother Jules. What mess with me It was hip hop, man Today, today I was like,

or the other day, old school too. And those guys are from New York, show a little. When I was back at renting a car, these guys were young, they must have been there early. Probably, you're age as you younger, right? They were maybe 30. Working at this Hertz rental. And I start talking about old,

this is old school. And I go, let me stop you right there. I go, old school to me is slick Rick and tribe. And they go, all right, all right. when the strips were written. I know. It was cool to be in New York. I listened to only New York-based hip-hop while I was there to, like, get in the space.

Because I'm usually a West Coast hip-hop guy, but in New York, like, I definitely feel more connected to, like, Naz and J-Z and Wutang. And I listen to Wutang. And I listened to Wutang here, but I'd never been to Staten Island and I listened to Wutton. Yeah. Oh, for what? I just wanted to do Wutte. Like, I wanted to, like, because I got, like, way more into Wutting in the last two years. So I wanted to, like, go through those areas and, like, listen to it in the space.

Because when I was listening to Wutang, I was a kid in high school. And then now that I've rediscovered them, I wanted to put it together. And it was such a different experience of being in New York that way. Did you hit these pizza shops in Staten Island? No, I didn't find out like call demand it. I didn't know. I didn't know better. All right.

So here's the other thing to we'll get into it as well, too. The Patreon is going well. Winston, you're at, so what I want to tell people this, because people are like, oh, you guys are at 600 already. And Winston's like, what? Not 600 yet. We're almost 400 because what Patreon started doing, which I think is cool, is you can do, you can follow people on Patreon, but not be paid. Those are followers. Those are followers. So the paid members is what's going to get people to be able to, we are going to be able to pay Winston to go.

So, so we're right around close to 400 for that, but Mike Kalinowski also has one now too. At 600, Mike's going to do a five-minute stand-up set. Oh. Yeah. That's amazing. So when we get the 600 patrons, that's what we're going to do. But that could happen before, like. That could happen.

Yeah, the end of the year. But as far as the pizza stuff goes, we're going to, as you guys saw, we're going to start, Frank Janice and I did like two pizza reviews and and I say this I show you I'm a when it comes to one bite pizza and did what Dave Portner and he goes I watched a lot of I think he I think he has changed the pizza business oh I totally agree small businesses is special oh he is he is elevated what was so silly and I talked about this in the live stream yesterday we get people like wait a minute wait a minute you can't review pizza because Dave Portnoy reviews pizza then I want you to go into a time machine and I want you to tell anybody that reviewed movies on

YouTube after 2008 that they're not allowed to do it because Mark Ellis and I did it first. So dumb. However, if that's the case, shit, you need to go tell Eddie Murphy, Dave Chappelle, Chris Rock, Martin Lawrence. None of them can do stand-up because Richard Pryor did

it first. I felt they all had pizza reviews for like half a second. I was like, do you tell me where to find a Dave Chappelle pizza? I know. But no, but when you but reviewing stuff and like the other thing, speaking of of Barstle, they started doing their, they did their their trivia show.

Jeff Lowe, who created that show, was a major Shmodown fan. The DMs to prove it. And he came up with a show, and they made competitive trivia two years after the Shmodown. Is he not allowed to do it? Of course he's allowed to do it.

He did his own style. That's the thing. It just has to be your own thing. If you're doing like a decimal, if you call it, you know, one by every does rules and do a decimal point after saying it. We're doing A, B, C, D.

Very different. And it's like, and that's the thing is it's such small-minded thinking of like, well, someone said, like, no, don't do pizza reviews. We don't need you to be a Portnoy clone. That's dumb. Yeah. Congratulations to Portnoy for having such a market that he

seemingly has cornered it. And no one's touching it. No, but that's the thing is like... That's not what I'm doing it. I'm doing it because I want to show people to say, where do you go to do L.A. pizza spots? And I would like to know more better at pizza. On top of the fact that you've been slobbing the knob of pizza since I've met you. That's all you talk about. You talk about like a three

things. This tree that you can never win a war against. And we'll do that too. My battle. Your baby girl who was apparently a mafioso. Which ties directly into the pizza. Pizza. Yeah. Those are the three things you don't even talk about movies. That's all a veiled fucking just like

whatever, just allegory from pizza. Can I play you guys something? Because you curse and I'll probably do it to you. Can I show you what I did to my countenowski? Sure. Oh my God. So I'm going to play this. So this is, I told Mike, because Mike was on the show the other day and I told Mike that he could curse. Oh, wow. It's got tied directly into.

his five minutes. So this is what I did. Do you hate it? No, but that was your thing and everyone thinks I hate it. Come on I can curse on this show. On this one? It was fine. I can curse on this show? It was fine. I just had a day. Fantastic. He has no idea that I did it. No, but that was your thing and everyone thinks I hated it. Come on

give me a freaking. It was fine. You can curse on this. It was fine. I can curse in this show. It was he's really good at Walmart in himself. That, like, censoring was solid. I do that to him maybe seven times during the show. He has no idea. He has no idea. And that's probably because, like, editing is grueling.

And I'm sure that was exciting for you to go find the moments. I was laughing my face off because every time he did it. Because initially I was going to let him curse. And I was like, no, you don't be funny. And I found a donkey sound. And I just kept putting donkeys on there. And a couple times I probably did, actually, he probably did slip out and curse. which was one time where I go, you know,

because every time, even if he said shit, I would do it. But I literally, I go, ah, what is that shit? And then he says it and I don't get him. Just his. Anyway, so we're going to be doing a lot of new stuff on the channel. If you can go patreon.com slash the big thing, showing the reason I bring it up with pizzas is that if it becomes popular on the channel

and you do like it, then Frank and I will probably go to New York, Chicago, Arizona, all these different places that we want to go to try some of the pizza out there. And then we hope that you can, that you support it. I was surprised that when I put the poll, like 78% said that it would be interested in watching out of like 1,500 people. That's not bad. Yeah, it's attention. I'm getting old. You got a coaster.

I feel guilty of just putting this on this is a nice-ass table. That'll worry. There it is. All right. Mail. Here you go. Let's get into it. Loki, Season 2, episode 3.

It landed last night, everybody. And it was. one of the better episodes so far because why I enjoyed it is it said oh this is what this story is about and they also the question of what kind of role

will Jonathan Majors have will they kind of bury him with all the stuff legal problems he's having the answer is a resounding no they are telling the story that they need to tell and I think that it was a great episode and it really portrayed, it was, it showed a lot of he who remains of what, of his overall plan, it showed, man, that little clock is a butthole.

It's great, man. Real butthole. She's insane. Yeah, real butthole. So I really enjoyed what I was. She's a pygmy girl. She really, my God. Are you guys surprised, though, with how much, I mean, God bless them.

But I was, I was shocked how many people did not agree with us last week. I was arrested. episode two. I just, I mean, yeah, there is a sense of, if you like a show,

you like a show that I think was part of it. I also think there's a sense of like this is better than a lot of what we've gotten. So I think there's, but I think that there's also anytime you say

anything is good or bad in the internet, the, you don't see the people agreeing with you because they're, they're quieter. It's the people

that are like, rah, around the cage. So it's surprised. To be fair, there were a lot of people in the comments, though,

were not aggressive. They weren't angry. No, no, but I'm saying, like it's more likely that someone's going to say something. Like if I don't like something and I'm talking to someone that does like it, I'm more likely to have more points.

It does take, especially in this world that we live in a society, that like at this point people are so reflexive. He's right. It's not the people that love stuff that are either going to write you a dissertation or going to speak up more often. They go,

cool, Christian agrees with me, they move on. If you're like, episode two sucked for me. Politely or impolitely. It's just, it's More likely you'll see the... Right, because I want to tell you what they... Yeah. I actually really enjoyed the conversation that most people were like... I'm sure they were.

There was one guy that was... People don't realize this. This is what I'm going to tell you in this channel. Yes, we are trying to get to $100,000. But I am picky with who lives here in the community. I love when people have... Like, there was so many. I'd say 90% of you were out there last week saying,

look, I don't agree with you. And I'll tell you, you made it seem like the sponsorship was so much and I didn't think that was a problem and I liked it because I love all that stuff. You start calling people names, you start saying things and insult, even little insults. I don't hesitate. I ban you. You're gone. And it's not a matter of saying like you can, I disagree with us all day long, but have a

conversation with us like you would if we were sitting across from you at a coffee shop. If you start insulting Winston or you start insulting Coy or myself and calling us names or things of that nature, you will be banned from the channel. And I've done it even like on the UAP show. No morons, the reason, you're gone. I don't even read the rest of your comment. You're gone. Someone was saying something about me?

No, I'm just saying. Because I will go James Hellibob on their ass. I will find Jim Bob in, in Pensacutky, Kentucky. I'll go whoop your ass. But it's just a matter. It's just the conversation. Like, I love the conversation. I was happy to see how many.

And I make the comment. I make that comment. where it was so few. There was so few that I had to do that to. Most people were like, and most people did not, especially me, did not agree with me on that episode and said that I blew it out of proportion with the McDonald's stuff.

They were expecting so much more. And that's totally fair to them. I still think it was, they beat you over the head with it. I think they beat you over the head with it. But people don't agree with me. Yeah, no, I mean, I said that during the thing, I didn't have a problem with it at all. Like my only issue, and now I'm curious

to go back and read the comments, because normally I do, I was really busy this week. It was just too much going on. And I didn't feel like we were getting to the point of what specifically, there was a lot of really great moments discussing again free will and all that, but I didn't think we were getting to the meat and potatoes of what this season was about. And I stand by the-and-this episode does. The pacing being a mess was my issue.

Like episode two, I didn't mind the McDonald's. I didn't mind the Brad stuff. I didn't mind some of the things you did. But my issue was one that I shared with you. I think I just, that thing bothered me more. So I think that's also interesting and like what is bothering people. But what would you like about it? Do you like this one first of all.

Yeah. So I want to say like all my issues with the second episode, which were pacing, were solved in this episode. I have some new issues of this episode, but it's way better episode. Like it's just like this is much like with Age of Ultron back in the day. When Disney bought Marvel, there was this shift where like the using the Pinocchio song didn't bother me with Ultron because it fit the narrative. Sure.

But when they made it so. central to their theme. Suddenly it's not like, oh, that's clever and we have the rights to it. It's this feel shoehorned. This episode, I gave like a, I'd say an eight, nine, it's almost an A. But it did have moments where I was enjoying,

I loved everything Majors was doing, his choice to play a Victor Timely that way. I thought was genius because he's a showman. That's what you'd have to do to adjust to those times. It was different than Kang, but it was even more different than he remains, but you could see elements of your remains. Is Victor Timely in the comics?

Yeah. And I love that the way he played him is like three different characters. That's what I want. But my, my issue was by the time it got to the third act of this episode it was so disnified that there was like so much like we're set in this setting beautifully loved the setting

but we've got to turn that old timey music up to an 11 to make it feel like you're on like Toad's Wild Ride in Disneyland to make sure you feel that like it's whimsical remember how whimsical and I was like I get it we're having a whimsical time I think I think you're having a moment you're having a McDonald's movie it was the whole thing from the entire third act was bothered because I the whole time it felt like a Benny Hillskin Okay, that was, that, that's definitely, so.

Go ahead and sponsor us now. There it is, brought you by. Did it work? Did it episode two work? As there was a particular kind of nitpicky that I had, that I'll admit, it definitely I think that's your. That might be. Because I was so in until then.

That didn't bother me. Well, especially the reason why that definitely didn't even cross my mind is, is from the facts, when you throw in the idea that, like, that's the kind of how. how that era was with a lot of like the, like any sort of three-stuge-esque, because that's what it became once he started becoming that comment. It's like, oh, I gotta get out of here. Yeah, yeah, it's the setting use.

You know what I'm saying? I just thought that it invalidated the tension. Oh, no. If anything, it amped it up for me and also just kind of gave more serious reprieal, like, like a more serious, like, um, look at it when we get to those moments where Miss Minutes has lost her goddamn mind and he's literally thinking he's about to get, like,

sort of killed by, by a swim fan AI. That beat was incredible. The final view in this, minutes, and that, like, just wanting a body, the use of AI, the commentary that clearly they're not listening to when they watch the episodes that Disney's using AI for is really interesting

while we're building towards things like that. I thought it was a really well-done script, unlike the second. I thought it was a really, and not that the second was awful, it was just moments of the scripts did bother me. This episode, like nothing about the script bothering me, nothing but the pace bothered me.

I thought it was a big improvement. It to me was one of my biggest concerns, which I did see a criticism a pushback against my criticism which I don't agree with what I said in two was what is this?

Like where does it connect overall and someone's like where do you always need everything to connect because it's an MCU show it isn't just something where you need it to connect because it's an MCU show where we're trying to get to an Avengers movie

I didn't come up with this format. They did. It also connects to season one. It's the season two of a show. Right. It connects to something and it hasn't connected to anything yet then this does.

This connects to all of it. This tells you, calm down, dum-dum. This is everything. They found that this is that post-credit scene from Ant Man that they showed, and this is them finding

Victor Timely, and this is them saying, you know the version that you saw in Quantumania, and the other version that you saw with him is very different, very different,

and he plays, Jonathan Majer plays him and, I mean, it's such a different character. It's just such a different character. And the way that they kind of, look at this guy and they're both fighting over this guy. I love that Mobius the whole time is like,

that's the guy. Like I really, the way he played it with all the tension and build up and like almost tears in his eyes of fear of Loki is doing more to make Kang interesting than the MCU has. And then you've got the jump cut to Owen Wilson being like, wow. Like it's beautiful to have since he wouldn't be afraid of him. He'd have no impact.

I was expecting more. It's just genius. And like the way they're writing Owen Wilson is still some of the best I've seen since like Shanghai Noon. They're so good at the voice. He's having fun, which is, you can tell he's having fun. Yeah, I'm so happy for this set. Like, everyone on this set, I'm like, good for you guys. Yeah, and it looks like the fear that they put him in, the fact that Loki is trying to protect him in that thing.

Oh, I will say my biggest criticism was the dopey guys following him around. Wanting their money back? Yeah. That was the Benny Hill element I was talking about. Okay, so that, I mean, but I thought you just meant the- The music was the worst of it for me, but the whole sequence, I was like, this has gone on twice as long as. I'm, I'm, when he comes back in the, is that what you're talking about? It's a bit much.

It's a bit much at the end. At the end of it when it's just like you're knocking on the door, where are you? Like they don't send anyone around. It just totally didn't fit the rest of the show. That's what I meant like. And we're talking to drop from a 9-2 to an 8-9. Like I'm not saying this is criminal. I'm just saying I have a negative note.

You got to remember you're doing dimension and time hopping. And anytime you've seen you got you talk about how much you love Bill and Ted, things are going to be real different back like chilling with like, you know. What I mean is that in, I think what he means is that fact that it's just overdone. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's okay. It's okay.

It's okay. When he shows up when he first is, especially, look, this is a black inventor on a stage. These guys are going to be like, what are you doing? They're going to treat them like crap. I could sense it, and I was wondering how they were going to handle it. They said Boyer the capital B. That was real. They did.

And I heard it. I was like, all right, they went there. Well, because that's that does drive me nuts. I'll be honest to you. It drives me nuts when they don't acknowledge that's the way that it's almost like they're ignoring that that's what happened. In real life, yeah. And they didn't do that because sometimes they'll place like, and at first when, and what's the shoot, main character of a, oh, shoot.

You got to give me more. So the two that are with, the clock and then. Miss Minutes in Raven Rensselaer. Rensselaer. So when Renslayer walks in there, too, the same thing, I was like, she's not getting cyanide and she started to get cyanide. Because it does drive me nuts when it's me almost like they're ignoring it when they're just, oh, no, no, no, it's okay. This is a different history in the 1800s when black men, black women could walk around.

Everybody's cool. Like, that's not how it was. Yeah. It's not how it was. And I think it's a disrespect to do it that way. So, and they've done it in a lot of different things. They've done it in a lot of different programs. My point was that they acknowledged it inside of this episode.

And it added attention. It did. So what we're talking about is the fact that you have that scene, which I thought was powerful, it worked, and then he kind of dupes him. And then when they go to four, find him again. It's, I guess, he's right there. And, like, there's no tension.

There's no. But the other thing is, too, if you're going to go to the house and you know the guy's running away from, you have five guys, why are you all coming through the front door? Go around the side and flank the- That was the small place. That's just really, the tension of the show felt like, okay, good, we're going to live in this world. That could be tense.

It's like that's showing up with a helmet. It's that. It's the same thing. If you remember, when we're chasing, Brad Wolf, you had the same comedic. I'm running away from you, which, which, again totally fine I think what doesn't bother me about it is because once we get

to the end of the chase shit always gets really serious and it was great I was looking for a negative which is why it does I think it doesn't bother me if it's like oh we caught you then I probably would have probably been on the same side with you guys but knowing that it was just the avenue

if he said it like that I probably would have been on board we're going to a musical it's going to be a music out of da da da da especially his majors he'd pull it off But, like, in two, when they catch Brad Wolf, you know, all of a sudden it's Loki's shadows pinning him against a wall. And I will, I'll kill you, bro. You know what I'm saying? So same thing.

They, we're going to get you timely. And then all of a sudden it's like, wait a minute. And then he just magics. He's like, oh, my bat. Yeah. And then they run up. The fact that you then remind everybody that Loki is still Loki. Yeah.

I don't mind it, especially when you consider in season one, we're dealing with alligator loki. That's true. child. Well, they did it again, though, too. And this one, no, too. What they did with Loki, which I thought was a baller move when Sylvie says the thing about gods. And it's like,

we are gods. Yeah, that conversation was genius. It was great. There's some really well-written stuff in here about, like, philosophy and fate and time that I'm really enjoying. And I'm really curious. I know you said episode four was everything. And so far, like, episode one really established like this incredible tone.

And then episode three is spectacular as well. Two does dip. So I'm really curious where it ends with how Disney is like, okay, four episodes. Like, there's always that thing where they send four because that's, that's a flavor. And then the five is like this penultimate climax. That's where we had like a lot of the crazy stuff season one. Yeah.

I'm super curious like what the gap is going to be. I can tell you again, not spoiling anything and we still know as well. Um, I understand why they didn't send five. And that's, that's what I don't send five and six with the screenings. I understand completely. So I can't wait. You'll get it. You'll get it immediately.

So I, what I'm saying is like three brought me back. Yeah. Well, three brought me back to like, oh, we're talking one of the best, if not the best MCU show. That's what I want to say about three. Like three is back to being, this reminds me of why I love season one. And so like I think me starting with the negative is going to make people

be like, it's only negative. No, no, that's my only foible. Three is back to one good and thus right up there with Wanda Vision for me. Yeah. It delivered, it got me back on board immediately because I also reminds me of

that's why you do television. There's tons of my favorite shows. I've been, I've watched sopranos and gone, well, that one. And the next one is fantastic, and I'm on board. It's just, it's consistency, right? It's consistency. And so far, out of the three that have aired, two out of the three, in my opinion, have been great.

And then for most people, judging by the comments last week, three out of three, it's been great for them. Which makes me happy, because I know that a lot of people been wanting this like home run that Marvel needs again, because, you know, we said it from eight months out, Guardians was not really phase five. And so I really want a home run for Marvel because I know they're trying to restructure. We're hearing all this stuff out of that book.

That book is fascinating. We have so much to talk about it. I want to make sure that I can acknowledge both two of our wonderful sponsors because tweeting is a really bad habits sometimes. But you can beat bad habits with good habits. And I know how to do it. I know how to do it. I'll tell you both about fume and I'm also going to talk about AG1 to keep up with good health

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I brought four travel packs of age you on to New York, and every morning waking up after no sleep, I would just open, Poland Spring, because I miss New York, open up a pollen spring, and literally pour in a travel pack, and I'd start the day with like, okay, we got this. And it got me through, man. Paul Spring, not a sponsor, could be. But there we should move into it,

because let's start with the first part of that book. All right, this is comicbookmovie.com, part of that book, Marvel Studios, new details emerge about Kevin Feigy's clash with, Victoria Alonzo and why she was fired. This is part of this, so much of this book, but this is part of it. We talked about this book yesterday

on the live stream with Brett, where they talked about the Lucas film and the Marvel stuff, they were essentially kind of forced, allegedly, forced into announcing some projects prematurely. But this is another one. When Avengers End Game was released in 2019, Marvel Studios really could do no wrong.

Since then, we've seen them expand their big and small screen offerings leading to issues with quality over, excuse me, quantity over quality, and a leader, Kevin Feigy, who has been stretched too thin. Many blame outside Disney, everyone's blaming Bob Chappack for those issues,

but we first learned of tensions within Marvel this year. Victoria Alonzo, who was the president of Fizzle and post-production, VFX, an animation production. She was fired after 16 years. There have been conflicting reports about what happened,

ranging from her taking time off to promote outside projects to her anger at Disney for its stance on Florida's divisive parental rights and education bill, which is commonly dubbed don't say gay in media reports. In the newly released MCU, the reign of Marvel Studios book, more insights are shared about the divide between Feige and his former right-hand woman that says, Alonzo had broken one of Feige's cardinal rules. Don't speak out publicly against the company. A source close to the matter said that later

that year, Feigey suggested to Alonzo that she had outgrown her role at Marvel. He reportedly cautioned her to keep her head down and do the work. In early 2023, Alonzo refused to act on Marvel Studios' request to remove LGBTQ pride symbols from quantumania for foreign markets. The atmosphere of the studio was tense. The Department of Yes had said no. Di Esposito outsourced the VFX for work anyway and act Alonzo regard as a betrayal. Alonzo, who is lesbian, making these moves isn't surprising and many will agree with her taking this stance. Disney and Marvel, meanwhile,

continue to insist that she breached her contract and Alonzo has since been blamed for Marvel's toxic work environment towards the VFX artist. It also sounds like she started exerting her creative control over projects similar to what happened with Ant Man and the lost quantum mania and that proved to be the straw

which broke the camel's back. Chances are we'll never know the full story but these latest insights are food for thought. It's ultimately a shame that the relationship broke down and her actions may have played a role in the VFX artist deciding to unionize. A lot there. That's that's one portion.

A lot there. It's a big old book. It's a big old book. I haven't got it yet, but I have to. I keep, I thought it'd be one of those books where because of our job, I'm not saying like we are more plugged in than, I'd say we're more plugged in than average,

but not so plugged in that like, and then this is so many surprises and twists and turns. This book's really impressive because it's revealing stuff that I had no idea about. We always said that we wanted to see this kind of stuff with Lucasfilm. Right. It's like,

what happened there and apparently they did, like, some of that stuff with a lot with the Marvel. And it's such a backhanded book of like, like the age of Marvel as if it's concluded. Because I get, I get where they're coming from, but it feels like a tell-all is usually shows a year's later.

They're down right now. They're kicking. That's what it feels like. Who wrote this? Oh, Coy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Guys, I'm promoting my book. The stuff you didn't know about Marvel.

You Jada Pinkett. Guys, you know what? Frankly, I am Tupac. Yeah. So, dude, the Jada Pinkett's stuff this week.

God day. It got to. I just, oh my God. I never wanted to know less about someone's personal life. I have never had something so thrust in my face. That's what she wanted. I had it. I let it go.

I let it go. You could have. I let it go. They will. It's right there. It's right there. No, but I let it go. Chris Rock ready to care of that. Oh, man. Chris Rock ready to care. What a what? I just, it's. Will Smith's response, though, classy. Will Smith's response was great. Do you see his post?

No. He just posted the thing and said, my official statement over him sitting in a chair. And he opened his mouth and then it zooms out across the planet. Like, I was very, another conversation. But so you hear this though with Alonzoly too. So what I'll say first is that, that of course, of course she's going to take that stance as she should with, you know, wanting to promote and everything to. I will say that I understand in the marketing side of it in certain places where they're like, look, in order for us to, and the business side of it, whether it's the right moral

decision or not, where they're coming from, whether you agree with it or not, I understand where they're coming from with it. But I also understand where she's like, why she would feel betrayed. I understand why she would be like, well, wait a minute. Why don't you guys, I've been here for years, and this is important to me. We've got to, in order to make change, we've got to have this fight.

But Disney being a corporate entity that it is and representing different sides, made their move. Now, that's part one. Part two is I have on a much, much, much, much smaller scale been in charge of a lot of people and been in charge of things to where it's working for a company, whether it's Collider or whether it's skybound.

And if people inside of the thing that I'm working, to start to do public going after people and doing this and going after each. It's like talk about it first inside and have the conversation. Brandon Hannah just causing problems. It's true. So I understand it not necessarily for this particular thing, but I understand where Kevin Feige has that rule of let's talk about things first before going after it.

But that is one particular circumstance that I actually think she was in the right. My personal stance. The other stuff, though, that I do think was probably led to her employment demise was, I do think from all the reports, and maybe it'll come out that it's wrong. I think she leaned really heavy on those VFX artists. I think she pushed it. Not the only one, but I think she pushed pretty hard on them. And I do think she got involved too much creatively,

and I don't think her creative choices were the right choice. And that's why, if that's the case, Kevin Feigy's got the right to say bye-bye. That's the whole thing. There's so many things in life. I guarantee you probably to everybody here, we're all human. Nobody's perfect. So that means that on a job, in a relationship, whatever, you probably have some flaws that are like sitting around and maybe pissing somebody off or giving them reason to take pause, but you are bringing more positive to the table than the negative. So they'll overlook it. But the minute you do something that is like really going to cause whatever sort of riff, and I agree with you, I think that she was in the right person. but as a company, when people love to talk about the idea of free speech and all that, yeah, you have free speech that prevents you from getting persecuted by the government. But if a company is like, hey, this is how we stand on something. You need to fall in line or we got to have a different conversation. It is what it is.

And so that's a situation where I guarantee you they were probably overlooking the VFX stuff. They were probably concerned because the projects weren't hitting, but they're letting it go. And then the minute you got into a situation of like, dude, I need you to stop. And she wouldn't. and again, I think she did the right thing. That's enough. That's a rap. You know, the other thing, though, too, quite, another, everything I said, I agree with.

But the other thing is that, you know, when they're also going to go, hey, wait a minute, we need to talk, when your projects aren't making money. I was going to say, your timing is also like, I also think it's worth noting that a lot of people pointed fingers at her for the toxic environment, VFX, which I didn't hear personally until after the firing. It was, it wasn't a conversation I heard for, when I. So you need to be scapegoat stuff? Because look at the visual effects to how they're treated now. They had to unionize. Like I think that maybe a seed was planted. Well,

they said they unionized because of her. That's what I'm saying. But it's now who do you point at? I'm acknowledging that maybe things that happened with her with a seed that grew. Sure. But I'm also acknowledging that we heard about people being moved from one project before it was finished over to Wakana forever. We heard about things happening where these five properties are all at once

are being spread thin. The stuff right now, she's not been there for like a year and a half. Like I guarantee you the properties, we're seeing right now that have rough visual. Quantumania couldn't have been all her because she wasn't there for the end of it. Like certain things like that.

She was there for the end of quantum. I thought she got fired at her. Was it after? Yeah, it was after one. Oh, oh, it was this year. Okay, but the complaints about visual effects, we have been complaining. Yeah, like, I don't know when I am.

But the complaints have been going on after her. And I don't know how far along they were. I just think that for a while people are going to be like, oh, she's the problem. And she might have been the seat of it, but I think we should have to acknowledge. There's more than just. We should acknowledge the unionization.

is necessary to scale for any major company for people who have rights. So I just want to make sure that, like, I would hate for her legacy because she was there from Iron Man One. Of course. And those visual effects are to this day incredible. And she was there for when they were treated well.

I just don't want her to become the face of evil if she was not all of it. Yeah, well, that's, again, one of these books. Who knows what else comes out of it? But Marvel in general, this book, not the best time for them. Because the other thing that Winston, right after we filmed last week,

because we filmed last Tuesday. We filmed last Tuesday because I was going to New York on Wednesday. And so Winston was like, oh, my God, look at us. And he sends us a report of the daredevil stuff. And we didn't get a chance to talk about it. We almost got out of Zoom. We almost filmed in an extra scene for you guys, behind the scenes. Wow.

So we talked about this with Mike and I the other day briefly, but I want to get you guys take on it is that, you know, and I saw your tweet about it to which, you know, every time you tweet I sweat, but. is the big thing can't take because Paul he said this is the word again. Will I have to call my friend and stop him from career suicide?

But I actually did like your tweet what you said. No, this time. But it was essentially what happened for people that didn't know was that dare devil was in trouble. Daredevil was in trouble. Yeah.

You don't understand why I'm laughing so hard. What happened? I guess? I just know. I just, I, we're like, Every time you tweet I sweat, I was like, man, like, every time a white dude walks at a store with a Confederate flag on his t-shirt, I'm just like, so what's about to happen right now? It says Christian scrolling where he's like, oh, no, I see his name.

I see his emoji. What's going to be? It's either just going to be like, hey, I just got, you know, what was it, the general out back? And I just like to ride in my car or I'm about to get called boys. Those dupes boys were real nice, but the rest of them. There's people that in our circle that when I see their tweets, they go, oh, no. Every time, here we go. You're just, you're just, you're like this.

Yeah, mine's like, it's just mentioned in your mood. Yeah, no, I can't. You can't be skipping down the street or you have a bazooka in. That's what I'm saying. I love stuff. He sees his entire life flash before his eyes. But so I saw, anyway, so the tweet itself. I wake up a memento every day.

I'm like, oh, was it good? Yeah, well, look, the tweet itself. You know, look, before even do that, we're going to get into all this stuff. I'll talk about Daredevil. This is going to tell you a longer conversation. So, anyway. We were talking about... Daredevil.

Now, Daredevil, this is what Mike and I talked about, I want to throw it to you guys. So Daredevil was announced at the... Was it 18 episodes or whatever it was? It was announced at D23. They had more stuff that they were talking about or they did a presentation at D23. And then there was all these different rumors.

I got scared for Daredevil when... Not for Sheehlk because I thought Daredevil was fine in Sheeholt. I got scared with Kingpin in Hawkeye because Kingpin was terrible in Hawkeye. Kingpin was not the terrifying menace that he was in that Netflix series. And a lot of people are going to definitely Disney-fi the daredevil

and not do what they did. And then the word comes that they scrapped basically everything that they were doing on this series. They just rewrote it everything. So much so that Vincent Nunafrio not only defended it on Twitter

to say, hey, hey, listen, And these things happened to where he got so frustrated with all the backlash on it. He quit social media. What? Oh, yeah. Oh, I love him online. He left Twitter. He left Instagram.

Wow. Because he was just over it. Good for you. So take note. You're not wrong. You're not wrong. Our entire jobs weren't on that platform. I know.

So either way. Either way. This is what Mike and I thought. And I'm curious to hear if you guys agree or disagree. Did they, and this. is where your tweet came in. You said, like, look, at least they did it. Yeah. At least they looked at it and said, hey,

it ain't working. It gives me so much hope. I agree with you. And as opposed to be putting out, like, well, we shot it, we got to put it out. They can't afford to do that right now because their shows and movies have not been great. Is there a possibility that, was it Karen and Froggy?

Is that, Froggy and what's the girl's name? Karen. Karen. Oh, okay. I'll talk about the actors. Yeah, yeah. Froggy and Karen. And Foggy. And Foggy. Foggy. Foggy. It's Foggy and Karen Because they were apparently in this report They were supposed to be killed off

And that's what That's what led to For the first like four episodes Daredevil's not even his costume Do they bring Foggy and Karen back? Yeah. Do they Netflix it up? Do they finally because I think they wanted to do this thing

Where they were like No Netflix we're not It's not our series. Do they say maybe we were wrong And maybe this is Daredevil season three I mean they recast Vanessa So that worries me Because like not that I had

You know anything against the new action but it shows a line in the sand between the old universe and the new universe. I think it'd be smarter of them to at least totally aim for what Netflix was. I don't know if they're going to make it a season four. I still don't know multiversally what everything is because they've been very,

they've been playing it fast and loose. And either it's my mega optimistic side where it is a multiverse where we've met different universes already. They can lean on that though. But that's what I'm saying. Optimistically, the only way to make all these tonal differences work is by bringing it all together,

clean slating it going forward. Right now there's two different universe flavors. And it worked in phase one when it was like the spangled flavor meets the god flavor meets the tech guy flavor. Like all of that still felt like when they came together. It was funny to be like a guy talking about his drapes and towards a god of thunder, all that stuff. But by the time we get to Spider-Man and he swings by the tree in Hawkeye, those don't feel like they could share a frame. So I think the issue is now not only what Winston was talking about last week with no Avengers level event to tie it all together, not to have a crescendo and all those things.

But also, by the time we get to the Avengers, I don't know if it's going to feel like we're experiencing one thing because we haven't mentioned Celestials. We haven't mentioned all the big stuff. So I think what they need to do is either narrow their focus to make things more familiar or they need to clean slate this with Cere Ors and Relon to the universe. Winston? So many thoughts. Yeah, I have a feeling, and that's even in the title of Born Again, the whole idea.

was that they were trying to kind of wipe away. You kept Charlie Cox, you kept Vincent, but you're trying to wipe away what was Netflix. Because to that point, as we saw it, if you go back and watch Netflix stuff, there are nods made to the MCU. They kept saying it was a part of it. Technically, they were just doing their own things.

You'd hear about the green guy, and you'd hear about whatever. I think the only way that, like, the Kingpin and Hawkeye, make sense is that it would have to be a different version of him. The only other way you could have done it is if you would really lean into him being like, I've retired. If he had been like,

I have retired from that life. I was off on an island doing, but you messed up my ish and now I'm back. If you had done something like that, otherwise wearing Hawaiian shirts and just being like, oh, just felt off. Yeah.

Like, you know what I mean? So I think they took a step back. I think they genuinely looked at like, because there was a report that came out this past week as, well that was like Marvel was confused that quantum media didn't slap the way that it thought because it was like we thought we put out a banger and critics and fans were like what the hell was this you know what I mean and I think that that this is the time where they're genuinely

looking at something and going okay if we're going to get to at least the finish line of what we want to do with this set of phases we can't have any more missteps you've run out of runway to be able to do anything like that. And I think they really just took that moment. And considering it wasn't pressing, it wasn't coming out tomorrow. And because you have the time, because Lord knows how long since we are back in the thick of the strike

again since the studios have decided to walk away, you have time with the writers now to really sort out what you really want to do just because I'm at the mindset now. We'll probably get out of the strike before the year is over, but nothing's being done until the new year. There's nothing else will be shot this year. Well, that was the other thing.

I guess transferring over into like Deadpool was the other thing, right? Yeah. Because Sean Levy was out, was talking about how that Deadpool three, they don't even know now when it's going to come out. It'll probably definitely get pushed to July or something to. Because even if I agree with you, I think that they'll probably end the strike around like the Thanksgiving area.

And there'll be like two weeks that people can work in December. This town doesn't fill. No. After like what's, if you're not from L.A., L.A. does this amazing thing. I'm saying sarcastically where November one hits. And everybody's like,

You know, it's almost Thanksgiving. And everything slows down. And then after Thanksgiving, you're like, we're a little tired. And then I can see Christmas. And then they just don't open the doors again. And the New Year's happens. And then it's February. They literally get theitis from Thanksgiving through the New Year.

It's insane. Like senioritis in L.A. is a three-month cycle. And like, it's exasurable. That's why I miss New York. I know people like, people like will do the, they'll like scramble to like that one or two weeks in between to try to do some stuff in that November, December area. But January is really going to pick up. I agree.

So that means that Deadpool's definitely going to get pushed for sure. And I think that that's why you got a chance to retool. They're not going to put Daredevil out and when they were supposed to. That'll be pushed. I guarantee you that that, because if you notice the timing of when this all happened, if I remember correctly, when did that news drop? Which one? that we text about.

That would have been Wednesday. Tuesday. It was the same day. It was the same day. Yeah, it was the same day. Yeah, you texted me that night that we were, we should jump back on. I think it was like two hours after we were.

Yeah, literally it was like. Because I'm just trying to remember when the studios walked away. That happened like on Thursday, Wednesday or Thursday. So that would have been Wednesday. Okay, I was just going to say just being in the thick of it and whatnot. And I'm sure that that's the whole thing. It was announced Wednesday that the studios were walking away from the table again, right? I guarantee enough of that is being talked about within the various studios and the companies

that they were already contemplating. Do we just kind of, do we start over? Like, what do we do? And the minute they're like, oh, dude, this is not going the way we thought it was going to go. They're probably like, okay, that's the last sign we need to screw it. Just we're going to start over. Like this isn't because, again, it's one thing if it's like because the talks were going so well that this is over last Friday, in which case then you got to have them look at the

the terms, have the ratification, it'd probably be over next week or the, or something like that, right? Right. The minute you find out that that's not the case, they were like, no, if there was anybody having any issues with anything, just whatever. I'm curious about Echo now. Because, like, the big sell and I don't think that's coming out. That's what I'm saying is like the big sell and Echo was the two of them. I think they will put it out. But they squashed it to one day.

Right. And they just released a new logo, which is a really funny way to be like, we still have this show. They're going to dump it all and put it and put it out of one thing. like they got Echo. They're going to do, I think, they're going to do the same thing with Echo that DC's doing with Aquaman. It's like, put it out.

We made it. Put it out. We made it. Put it out. See how it does. Maybe people, because in Echo, Deer Devil and Kingpin are supposed to show up. That's what I'm wondering, though. What if they're tonally more like Kingpin? That's my concern.

Marvel's a mess right now. They're in a, I think this is the worst they could be. Yeah. With how strong they were pre-pendemic. And that's what, I think a lot of it is having to reshuffle. We reread that our, that confirmed a lot of our theories about Falcon Winter Soldier, where it was going to be people like chasing down people causing a virus that's decimating

the population. They'd be like, not storyline. I think there were a lot of things that really had this really tight plan that couldn't exist after the pandemic. And now they didn't fumble the ball as well as they had to to survive. And now we're just snowballing negativity. Yeah.

And I think that that, you know, I think they got a rough patch to go with for a bit. Somebody asked me on the live stream yesterday, if the Marvels, especially after the Marvels is tracking, I think the Marvels is going to lose money now. I don't think it's going to make money anymore. I think it's going to, it'll barely break even, if anything. I think it's going to be in major trouble.

And I think that... It's in like a few weeks and nobody's talking about it. And they can't promote it now. Right. So they're in major trouble with that movie. But they said, is that the, is Marvel going to be in serious trouble? Yes and no.

Yes. And the fact that it's like it's going to continue on that just punch after punch after punch. And then Echo will be another one punch. and then Deadpool is their opportunity to turn it all around because Loki right now is good

but Loki's not going to be able to carry it on its back because it's a television show it can't and even though people are watching it what's bizarre is the ratings are good but I've never I mean I'm looking to people that normally do really really big numbers on the Marvel shows

yeah I don't see it translating to what it used to on the feedback loop right and that's important because that's your only kind of promotion right now right that's your only promotion. Like, I did reviews and reactions for one piece that did 30 to 40,000. My last Loki one did 3,000. Wow, a 10th. Eight it. Eight it. That's. Aet it. Almost so much I was like, I'm not going to do this anymore, but I was like, yeah, you know what, I'll do it. Yeah. And I don't even know this as, as of we're recording this now, my, my reaction is up.

I don't know if it did bad or good. I'm going to guess and say, I, I released it at a different time. So I wonder if that had anything to do with it. I'm talking to myself in the future. I have no idea. How am I doing, Christian? Yeah, am I doing? But I mean, at this point, I'm just excited to have other mediums to, like, talk about stuff, like, because I do think this is lasting through the year. I don't think we get to do any Oscar really promotion stuff with actors,

which is going to be fascinating. It's just going to be Scorsesey out, talk to my killer. You'll do, you'll just, you'll just, by the way, foggy is in killers. No way. He doesn't say a word. What? He doesn't say a word. Silent Eldon Henson? He says, no, nothing. You know, he was the knuckle puck kid in my ducks. Yeah, he was. What? Yeah, yeah, he was. No, knuckle puck

was Keenan. What are you talking about? It's knuckle puck time. That's that's Kenan's whole thing. I know which one you mean. The first one you mean. The first was that he's the slap shot. I did the wrong term. I did the wrong term. I was like I know I can visualize it. You are not going to erase a black man. Do not take in the 90s? We had just Keenan. I used to look up to Keenan. My guy. We only had Keenan. No, the sideways puck, the violent kid in the first one. The slap shot. He's the one that comes in that's, but that's foggy. Yeah. Foggy's in I noticed him in killers. He's like, I'm like,

oh, there's foggy. And they just, like, panning him. He was a day player. They're like, I don't know if they, I'm like curious about it. I love that. Yeah? Okay, good.

It's a great movie. I'll only watch it once. Three and a half hours. That's not why. Oh. It's emotionally draining. Got it. I could see that.

Very powerful movie. Yeah. But the killer's out next week. That's my most disciplined movie the year. Nobody's talking about it. Yeah. It's based off a French comic. There's a Fincher comic movie coming out.

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You got to go to rocketmoney.com slash thing and sign up today. You will be thanking me for it as well. All right. Thank you to our friends over at both Qajabi and for Rocket Money, both very beneficial. And I hope that you use them. Links are in the description.

I always pin it to the top. All right, so let's switch on over. Let's get to some of these other stories, which are interesting ones. All right, so Invincible. Season 3. Invincible comic creator Robert Kirkman, appeared at New York Comic-Con,

23, on the weekend, where he confirmed the Amazon animated series is well into production on a third season, at the Old Shmodown set. Speaking just a couple of weeks ahead of the show's second season premiering on Prime Video on November 3rd, Kirkman says that the finishing touches

on the second season will be ongoing right up to release. However, he adds to the third season is far enough along that a bunch of casting has already taken place, and it'll include some from the Walking Dead series, which was also based on the comics. His comments are the following. Finishing touches on the last few bits of season two are being done right now.

Season three is very far along. When I talk about the actors we have for season two, it's a minefield. There's so many in season three we have to talk about. If you think the cast expanded for two, just wait until you hear about who we're getting in three. That might give you an indication of how far we're going. There's just so much big stuff planned. It's possible that there may be some walking dead alums that could be popping up at some point. Okay.

So it's funny, I got to get back into this series because I was watching. I figure what episode I'm on. I'm on like season one, I don't know, episode four. So you're like halfway. Is it, is it eight? I think it's 10. It's eight or 10. Okay.

I mean, three or four episodes in. Okay. And I really enjoyed it. I was watching it when my family was out of town. Yeah. I don't know for some reason I didn't get back into it. It wasn't going to enjoy it. It's been long enough that I'm like, I might rewatch.

Yeah, it's only about to get. You need to get back into it because you never saw the end of season one. No, I don't know. I know, I know. I know. Oh. On top of, did you see the Adam Eve special they did? Yeah.

Great. Absolutely great. Yeah, there's like an 11th episode that came out last, no, this favorite. So season two hasn't dropped yet? No, no, no. Okay, so you watched her first three. Did you watch them with the Real Rejects? No, no, they're not out officially yet, but like the show's going to come back. Yeah.

Show's going to come back real special. Yeah. Oh, I see. Okay. Well, great. So this is, I mean, for people who did know or did know, I was working at Skybound when Invincible was on. And we actually, the reason I made that joke to Shmoto thing, is that we, the building that we were shooting Shmona, like, the Invincible Office was right there. All floor two.

Yeah. Where we did the spectacular, the last spectacular. Oh. Above us, they were actively making, too. We just, we were working out of like two different buildings for that last season. So I was just like, there was a second floor there? I literally was trying to think of the other studio. Right, right, right, right.

The one that we closed out on. But either way, that's, that's great that they. that they've got three gone. People are excited about it. And you've seen the three they're good so far? Yeah, yeah, they're incredible. And it's really smart

how they bring it back and it's also really, really fun time. The first season is a really good job playing with the timeline of the comics. The second season comeback does as well. Okay, you told me about

as you were walking in, I guess, again, this will be about a day old at this point with GenV. Yeah, GenVe officially got a season two right as I walked in. GenVee, I'm loving, I'm up to six.

Seeks? Seeks? It's so good. The show is just so, so smart and inventive. And it plays the boys' lore. I actually rewatched the boys pilot last night because of how much I'm enjoying GenVee. And I was curious about starting pilot age boys

and all the lore, how much more violent and how much more intense and all those things. And they're really, really incredible parallel shows. Because even the cinematography in GenVe, there's some little nods I didn't catch from the pilot of the boys, the way they start the world out. Like, it's so clever, man. I don't know why.

I just keep forgetting. That's really what it is. But also, and I don't remember, Kalanowski, I think, and I were talking about this. It's the same day as Loki, which I think is hard. But I've seen the first four already.

So what I, for Loki, what I do is stupid. I'll wind up like last week when I could have been watching that. I watched the Lost Boys. Oh, that sounds stupid.

I know, but I watched, on the plane, I watched Willie Wonka, the first one. I watched, and Grandpa Joe is awful. Just the worst.

He's the worst. He sucks. He sucks. He tries to tell, you. Just getting on his. No, no, no, but like, oh, that's up. Three up.

The other one, Dase and Confused I wind up watching, watch Beetle Jews. It's because we have to watch stuff for work. Sometimes it's nice to just throw on a night's tail. But I'll also tell you why. It's one of those things that, like, I know it's something that Amazon is trying to build out now. Like, they have been, obviously, for the last, like,

call it a decade or so. But, like, it hasn't been their main focus. You know what I'm saying? I think in the same way with, like, Apple TV, it's like, yeah, they're putting out some bangers, like shrink. shrinking was amazing.

Right. But like, it's not their main focus. Yeah. And so I don't, I sometimes completely forget that Amazon is doing stuff. See,

I'm the opposite with like, Netflix has been such a disappointment and they're upping their prices again. And Disney Plus has been such a disappointment and they're upping their prices again that I'm kind of like

that underdog thing where I'm like, well, screw the empire. I get it, but I literally do not even remember to watch things on Amazon. I deleted my Netflix app

so I'm more likely to go away. I might get me. I'm cancel my Netflix. I think, I think I'd just bring it back for like strange. things. Yeah, yeah, I'm just, I'm going to cycle in and out like I did with other streamers. My wife loves Netflix, but I just, there's nothing on it. It's just like,

she finds a lot of stuff. No, no, no, there's there's there's there's a lot. They're just, what it is right now is they are pushed so hard on that reality side. Which I don't mess with. Well, no, no, I get that. So like, for example, my girlfriend watches selling sunset. They put something out with that every couple of months. Like the love is blind. Yeah, I just so I think it's a great thing for some households. I think my six year old would probably start breaking kneecaps if I did it. She will. Injago. Oh, yeah.

Oh, bro. Yeah, that's not going to work. It's not going to work. Anyway, so... Good luck with your next pizza review. For real. Let's get into the last topic, and I do want to talk about this Matthew Vaughn thing because it's got Superman and I want to talk about it.

Matthew Vaughn, we talked about this yesterday, but I said I was going to wait about the Superman thing, so I want to talk to the guys about it. All right, I said I wanted to wait for the guys before we get as yesterday. We talked about some of the Vaughn stuff, but I didn't want to talk about the Superman thing. So he did talk to our buddy, Josh Harwitz, about it. about Superman. And he said, not only about DC, he was talking about DC, and he said he's reached out to him and Gunn and Peter Safran.

They've been talking, never say never. At the moment, he's enjoying creating his own things. The franchise is in the best hand, so let's see what happened. Because he was, of course, he was rumored for the authority. And he talked about Superman. And this is what comic book movie said. It's not as if Vaughn would reveal which movies or TV shows they've discussed, but he did confirm past reports that he and comic book

writer Mark Millar approached Warner Bros. To pitch a Superman trilogy before Zach Snyder made Man of Steel. He says, Mark and I sat down and plotted out a three-film trilogy. Pitched it to Warner Brothers before Man of Steel. We pitched how to do a trilogy of Superman movies and Warner said they weren't interested and that's as far as they went. He said, I would have done a modern version of Donner. Our big idea is that Krypton didn't blow up.

It does eventually. The dad was right, but he got his timing run. Vaughn added, when Superman has grown up, suddenly there's some. mass exodus and all hell breaks loose, and that was our main idea. It's a bold take on The Man of Tomorrow, and one which suggests that Vaughn would be looking to also shake things up with the authority. However, some fans are already convincing themselves that he must be on the DC payroll after the writer and director praised the Flash in a separate interview with ScreenRamp.

He said, what really freaked me out was that I really enjoyed the Flash. I thought it was a really good film, and it died at the box office, right? I'm like, wait, this is a good movie. What happened? And I don't know whether that was the superhero fatigue or you've just seen it done. So even now that we've made it well, there was some really, really complicated, hard, and quite especially unique filming in that film, which I don't think Mushietti got enough credit for what he did. Vaughn would go on to elaborate and say, I think there's been so many bad superhero movies as well,

as like when the Western guy, you got so many that you get bored of the genre, not because the genre is bad, but because the films are bad, I was oddly enough, sadly, when Batman and Robin came out, and it was terrible. I was a big Batman fan and we were like, ah, that's when superhero was stopped and then they came back. I'll be intrigued to see how the Marvels does. I think great point on Vaughn, but let's start with you, Koi, on Superman. Personally, and I love Matthew Vaughn. I'm a very outspoken Matthew Vaughn fan.

I think he is one of, I think he directed the best X-Men team movie. I do think a Superman that stays on Krypton is undermining the importance of Superman. not what he said. No, no, no, no, no. He says on Krypton for a time he's an adult and then there's a mass ex-us. His dad sends him, but his dad was wrong about when it blew up. So Superman's already on earth. And then all of a sudden all these Kryptonians show up being like because I'm cooler with that. I miss I misinterpreted the statement. Thank you for

correcting Matthew Vaughn, you're back in my good grace. No, no. I still see, that's how conversations should go. If you, you like no, no, it was this. Oh, my bad. All right, cool. Yeah, I just verb the wrong noun and now it makes more sense. And now here we are. I still though, the funny thing is though. I will kind of copy what you were saying except understand what he said. Media literacy.

What I start with, what I start with is that I love Matthew Vaughn. I think he's great. I don't love the idea of Krypton not blowing up because it's so formative. It's what it is. It's less bad of a change than mine, but it's still not super many.

And there are things you can change. They're archetypal characters, but that seems fundamental. Well, again, living in a world, we live in a society, where apparently there are multiverses. I don't have a problem with the idea of, because think about the different type of trauma that would be. If, like, you get sent off as a kid because your parents are concerned, like, oh, everyone's going to die. This is my only way to save my child. For him to only find out his dad was wrong.

And he's been living for. And he's been a lot of, it's a different trauma. That's a different trauma. I just think that it's tricky to Superman because they haven't gotten them right in so long. That it's just that character if that's the argument I'll give you that it's like we haven't had the the cookie cutter Boy Scout just follow this main story and tell something within that realm that sandbox if that's the argument then I'll give you that but I don't see you starting with him It's just it's so important to get the foundation right that's the only reason Superman I think is so I love how like he's Vaughn's given a lot I yeah the Western parallels genius

Well that's very true people have said that before no no no but it's rare a filmmaker comes out and goes hey we're looking at at the data the same way you fans are, we're concerned about making these. I think he's one of the first filmmakers I've seen so publicly be like, I'm worried how the next thing does, because I'm attached to some of these. Well, because I understand what he's saying, though, because all three of us thought

the Flash was fine. I think that the, like the film, I'd like that movie. I had fun. The first, the beginning is bad with the, the, the, the, the CGI is bad. It's real bad. But not enough to where, I would have, I think that movie, if it comes out,

five years ago does significantly better. I think significantly better. It's just there's so much that does, I think he's right. Aquaman, I want to see how that does, which is interesting too to where he said. He didn't say, let's see how, I'll be looking at what Marvel's and Aquaman does.

He's working at DC. He's working at DC, for sure. And he knows, I'm looking to see what the Marvels are going to do. I don't think the Marvels are going to do well. I don't think Aquaman's going to do well. And by well, I mean, maybe make profit. I'm very curious about the analysts that go like, well, these two billion-dollar first movies, their sequels dropped 80%. I think we're going to see two of the biggest drop-off being first to sequel in history.

I mean, I don't know. So Deadpool is going to be the next big superhero movie. That's the next big one. Yeah. That's it. I'm really curious how Thunderbolts gets moved because I don't think it's as big as Marvel wants it to be. You've got to move that move. But at the same time, well, I don't think they've been able to film anything because you've also got the issue of like, look at the cast.

The Thunderbolt's cast is not only stacked, but now, now that you're the same. that we've got this, how long is this strike been 100 days for actors? We're approaching 100 days. I think by the time we aired it's like 98. That's all everyone that had triple stacked schedules for the next five years. Like if you're, if you're, if you're, say, David Harbor, you've got to film Stranger Things and Thunderbolts at the same time. And in one of them, you're a skinny guy with no hair.

And in the other one, you're an overweight guy with a beard and long hair. How are you going to both get like there are things like that, the fundamental issues. I don't think people are addressing. Well, they're going to do prosthetics for the weight. And they're going to add. Or they, but that's what scares me is like how much. And with the rewriting that happened because the pandemic is what got Marvel in this mess. Because Marvel had a plan.

Now it's got to adjust its plan a third time. It had to adjust once for the pandemic, once for the fallout from its fall from grace. Now it's adjusting for the strike. That 10 year plan is gone. And that's why I think it's like, start over. Yeah. Well, I'm not really religious dude. But what is that?

The old saying is like you made you make a plan and God laughs or something like that. And that's essentially what has happened. And I think that's the AMPT. they laugh. Well, they did, they laughed at themselves? They're a malevolent God. All I'm saying is that

you have a situation where I think what I have complained about with Marvel and with DC stop giving me your 10-year plan. Yeah, yeah, don't announce anything. I understand that the film industry is a business,

but when you're dealing with something especially that is art and the business pays for itself via the art being good, Stop telling me about what you're going to do in that. Focus right now. What am I getting in the next two to three years? I want to know that.

And let's make that happen. In that book, they tried to just pass that off on Disney, where they said that Cheapek was responsible, or Disney and Cheapac was responsible and pushed both Kathleen Kennedy and Marvel to announce projects prematurely, right? And I said, sorry, I got to say, I got to call out a Smelly Fart.

because that's, to me, Kathleen Kennedy, well, that was, the 2021 was when that happened, right? What about Colin Travaro? What about the, Bennoff and Weiss? What about all?

Who hasn't been attached? Right. Now, the thing is, and as far as Marvel goes, Marvel was extremely lucky where they did those big announcements at the panels back in Hollywood that one time,

and not all of those came to fruition. the one, I forget one of there was one movie that was scrapped. In humans, that's what it was. And so that happened, but they were in such a glory years that people were like, ah, it's okay. It's also one. That's the problem is that when we

got to the end of end game and we got to that Comic Con, okay, what's next? Right. Cool. Black Widow and Wanda Vision and Ant-Man and Ant-Man and Guardians and Ant-Man and Kang might be around and Blade and so the problem,

was it is one thing when like again we get into phase two and it's like hey guys here's what's coming we're going to close up the iron man trilogy caps get another movie we'll get another thor movie and then Avengers that's you're literally told me what's going to happen essentially for the next four years they decided to give us a seven to 10 year slate and that's too much i think another huge issue on top of that that's a i think b on top of that is the fan entitlement so that's the bad side in the suits the bad side in the fans is every time there's a D23 or Comic-Con and they give us all that, then they're still like, what about the X-Men of the

Fantastic Force? They feel pressured to give more things as like a, you know, a spoonful of sugar. No. No, no. Focus. I agree with you. I'm saying, but that's not the answer. But that's the issue is I think they let the pressure leak more. So I think it's not as clean as JPEC. I think it's not as clean as blaming

any one person. I think fans going, why aren't we getting 10 years and then them giving 10 years, which they shouldn't do? And then now when things fall apart, it's every problem at once. And that's, I think this, I mean,

the next Marvel book is going to be fascinating. You know, you know what it feels like, bro? It's like, you brought your girl flowers one time and she loved it so much.

Every Thursday, you got a flowers. Not only that, you didn't just bring her the one bouquet of flowers which she enjoyed. All of a sudden, you show up with a whole truck

of flowers that have filled the apartment. And she's like, that's nice, but like, can you take the trash out? Right, right, right. I don't, I don't necessarily,

I'm not a flowers person. I like pizza. And if you like pizza, then, And what you should do is at today. So we're looking for the review with myself and Frank Janice. I'm going to put that out after this episode. But I want to thank the guys here today.

This was a really good episode. We have a lot of stuff to talk about. We will have more once the strike is over. There's no doubt. But right now with Loki and all these other stories that are coming out, and now that the writer's strike is over, by the way, I still think that we'll start getting a couple more stories that will pop in like the ones that we've been getting.

but I'd like to thank my panel here today started with Winston A. Marshall. Winston, where can they find? Find me at the swaggy blurter and all the platforms. I do game time with Roka on Tuesdays where we break down the previous week in sports. I'm obviously here every Thursday and then my content on my socials come say. What's up?

All right, Coy, where can they find? Hop me down on social media at Coy Johnro. And also, if you're looking forward to that Spider-Man game dropping now, my good buddy, yoie, my good buddy Yuri Lohenthal came on my show. We did a pilot for my new talk show. That's a great question over in Real, a full hour of Spider-Man talk with Yuri over on Real Rejects.

I'm so stoked about it and it's the first of many. All right. Well, there you go. And you can find me at Christian Harlow. And once again, if you haven't been here, brand new, hit that button. We're almost there. We're almost there. And if any of you are able to get one of our wonderful sponsors here today, whether it is

Qabbi, Rocket Money, AG1, or Fume. They're all in the description of the video and they're a pin comment. So thanks to Coy, thanks to Winston. Thanks to all of you. We'll see you on the flip side. Bye.