The Kristian Harloff Show - MARVEL MAYHEM! How will the strikes change the entertainment industry?

Episode Date: November 2, 2023

STAND UP COMEDY! https://www.flapperscomedy.com/shows/kristian-harloff/72183/ Holy Moly! So much going on! The SAG strike is almost over? When it ends, how will it change the business in general? Rachel Zegler got herself in hot water with the Snow White comments, with the agreement that Hunger Games can promote, should Zeigler try to put out some flames. And speaking of flames, Variety's article on Marvel really shook the news cycle yesterday. From Jonathan Majors to bringin the original Avengers back, what in the world is going on at Marvel and can it be saved? Kristian Harloff is joined by Perri Nemiroff and Kris Carr! Enjoy! #marvel #MCU #SAG #strikes #TV #movies #jonathanmajors #avengers #rachelzegler  PATREON: Become a Patron!: https://www.patreon.com/TheBigThingShow

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Happy Thursday. It's Thursday, Thursday, Thursday for the big thing. I'm so excited. I'm excited for my guests. There's a lot of news going on, man. There's a lot of news. The first thing we're really going to talk about here today is the strike. It looks like at the time of this recording, we're recording this on a Wednesday,

but at the time of this recording, the SAG strike is still going on with a deal potentially happening. So there's a possibility, possibility by the time this releases that a deal has been announced. I don't know. But with the fact that we all believe a deal is coming soon and the fact the writer strike is over, the directors, they cut a deal real quick. What is the business going to be like now? What will it look like the next round of negotiations in two, three, four years, whatever the hell that is? We'll talk about that. Massive, massive news with Marvel. We talked about it briefly yesterday on the show in reports to the blade and what was going on there.

A little bit more of how Fikey was stretched too thin. They're worried about the marvels, but there's so much more that came out in that report from Variety, man. There's stuff with Jonathan Majors, and now the main thing is, is Kang going to be replaced? Is Doom going to take over? We don't know. It's a potential. It's something that we'll talk about. There's a lot more that happened inside of that Marvel. With one of my very special guests who happens to be an Academy

Award winning actress, no, who is actually an Academy, anytime it comes down to the Oscars, I'm always, or any of the awards, I'm always reaching out to Perry Nemer. All of the time. And she's got the inside of what's going on in this year's Academy Awards, where we're going to find out who the front

runners were and all that stuff and more. There's other things that we'll discuss, but I got Perry Nemeroff and Chris Carr, it's the first time they've ever met, and it's on this show, man. Yay. So I'm sure there'll be some laughs, but you know there's definitely going to be some laughs. On December 2nd, Baby at Flappers.

That's right. It is the Big Thing Comedy Show. Chris Carr, you ever done stand-up comedy? Yeah, I used to do the Comedy Store a lot. Do you want to do comedy on December 2nd? Okay. Chris Carr's doing comedy with us on December 2nd. Just announced here on the show.

Shit, I need a type 5. We'll have to add her to the bill, but Chris Carr will be on there. but myself, Brett Sheridan, Coy Chondro, Roxy Stryor will be hosting, Kate Mulligan, Winston-A. Marshall, and if we get to 600 patrons, Mike Kalanowski said it'll do a five-minute set. So there you go.

But look, we just added Chris Carr to the bill. So we're going to sell it out. Got to sell it out. Get your tickets now. It's in the link in the description. Chris Carr's like what I just commit myself to. So that and more, hit that button. We are almost like 1,500 away from $100,000.

We can do it, guys. All right, let's get to it. It's the big thing. It's me. It's Perry Nemeroff, Chris Carr. Here we go. Yeah, man. Big thing. Apple Podcasts, Spotify. Anywhere podcasts are found, baby. Today, Thursday. It's myself, Perry Nemeroff, Chris Carr, and we are back. You and I have not been on the air together at a long time. In a really long time. Yeah. Like years and years and years.

On the air. We've been working together. We just have not been on the air together. Well, I guess kind of when I was switching for you and by accident I put the camera on myself. So I guess that kind of counter. Can we count that? Yeah, we can count that. If not, it was probably like 2018. Maybe 2019.

Maybe 2019. You were on Clyde or live. You were on Collier Live a couple times. Couple times. But that was really last time. We were both focused on very different things though. When we were doing things a lot together, that was probably more in the 2018 area. So we are working together in a way that, so for what people do or do not know, we haven't been able to do it for a little bit.

obviously because of the strike, but beforehand, because Perry is such an incredible interviewer, I've always told her that for sure. And it's been one of my strengths and something that I've loved for a long time. She was looking for a studio at one point, and I had heard that through, I think, Roxy. And then I called Perry and I said, hey, listen, you know, what if you want to use the studio? And she's like, well, you know, we're talking about renting and all that. I'm like, nah, no renting. I was like, why don't just, if you get me, whatever the guest is, I'll take 15 or 20 minutes with the guest.

I love that idea. So we've been doing that. We did Amber Mid Thunder. Andrea Reisborough right before she got nominated. Oh, what did I tell you? Huge get. Oh, my gosh. Huge get.

I had seen that movie. I knew her body of work. Yes. And then look what happened. And then she got, yeah, we got, we got emails. Like, thank you guys for having her on. And that was just a few of the kids. We've had so many guests.

And we're looking to do it again once the strike. And I feel like the floodgates are going to open once the strikes over. I sure hope so. there's a lot. I'm curious to see if the studios wind up wanting to go back to anything that came out that could maybe get an extra bump if stars promote it now. But then also, you know, award season is here. We're already in the thick of it. There's going to be a lot of promoting that has to happen over the next couple of months. Yeah. So and Chris Carr, you guys have never kind of crossed past before. No, I'm familiar with your work. And my friends are very familiar with your work. We were really big dorks at Cinemicon. A segment with you popped up. I still can't believe that. And Ray, Laura Starr was like, yes, yes, Perry. It was great. That was great. So, Chris Carr, obviously, you can see her on John Campi's show.

She's, she's been on this show many times, and we love having Ron. Now she's going to be at the Flapper Show with us as well, too, so that's great. But Perry, you're also doing something right now on Collider Daily, right? What's going on? That I am. It has felt like it is about time that we start getting into live daily movie and TV news again. So we've started, you know, like a mini show, a bite-sized show. The goal is for it to be 15 minutes every single day at 10 a.m. P.T.

on the Collider Extras YouTube channel. And it is me, Steve, John Al Jets, who is wonderful. And Maggie Love it, who is also excellent. And the four of us just rotate and we talk about the hottest stories of the day. And, you know, the point is you sign on, you get the quick hits. And that's it. How long is your day? 15, 20 minutes?

is 15 minutes, but you recording my interviews, no, I have a habit of going over. So some days, most days it's a little longer than 15 minutes, but we try to keep it to that. Perry got to a place and God bless her because we got to, she asked great questions and she has good interviews, but like, we know that when we talk to the publicist, they're like, okay, you guys got her for 15 or 20 and you guys got her 15 or 20. So there's been a few times where like, I'm looking, and when you're doing it, you're not paying attention to the time. So Perry will be, and it's like, and I'm looking at them engineering sometimes, and it's like

35 minutes, 40 minutes, and I'm like, uh-oh, right? And then Perry's like, why don't you go first from now? And I was like, I'll go for it. You know what the worst is? You'll appreciate this. I moderated an award season thing for the Cobra Kai guys. It was a newish Netflix building. Is it after the strike or recently?

Well, it was before the strike because Ralph and Billy were there. Oh, okay. It was a newish Netflix building, or at least one that I had never been in or moderated anything in before. And they're like, you got 30 minutes, you watch. The clock, it's all good. I sit down, there's no clock. There's no clock.

I don't see a clock anywhere. And it wasn't until I turned to the audience and I'm like, thank you so much for being here. I'm like, oh, the clock is like right behind. Did you hit it though? Dude, it was like 15, 20 minutes over. I blew past that time so, so bad. Everyone seemed happy and finding the conversation. But I was like, oh, I'll never make that mistake again.

It happens. You get wrapped up in the interviews and stuff too. We're hoping, obviously, and we'll get into everything that we're talking about here. The goal is that, because someone said to me the other day, like, you know, you really like, you can tell you,

you really like doing interviews and you do it well, why, you know, interviews, and like, well, because there's a strike going on. And we just can't do it at the moment, but we really want to, Perry and I've been talking about it. We're going to get a heavy push on some more people as the, I mean, they even reached out to the other day because the Hunger Games signed an agreement.

Yes. That they basically said, okay, what was the actual, the details behind it. You guys know? So they have an interim agreement that allows them to promote the film now. Right.

But I always, each time these come up, and you guys might know this a bit more in depth, because even as a SAG member, I'm still so confused of, great, so for now things are okay. You have this deal that works for right this moment. What happens when you start streaming it, though?

What changes then with your specific agreement that no one else is on board with right now, especially with some of the hangups that are keeping the strike on going, like AI and that kind of usage? That's where I get a little. confused on them still. Is it maybe, Perry, because they think that, like, it's, like, they're so confident in what they are going to get that they're like, okay, fine, you know, you can sign that deal.

We should be wrapped up here pretty soon. I would imagine it's probably, I mean, I haven't read this full report because really I saw that headline. And the first thing that I did was like, you know, try to, you know, make sure it's possible in a schedule if we are lucky enough to get to talk to some of that very talented cast. But in that particular case, I have to. imagine it's probably similar to something like A-24, where those are entities that are in agreement with some of the things that sag after wants. So they are going to be willing to give

those bigger productions, or at least bigger productions, you know, compared to some of the other things that might want these agreements. They're more willing to give them the agreement so that they could promote because those studios aren't the ones causing the problems. That's true. Linesgate isn't AMPTP officially, correct? Like they're a subsidiary. Is it sub? Are they part of it? That's a terrible question to ask me because I don't have that information. Yeah, I mean, but it's probably, I mean, maybe because it would make sense if that's the case. But, I mean, you just, well, before we move into the thing, because you want to talk about the Hunger Games thing,

what I'm so curious about when, who they would give in the cast, right? You think that even if, with permission, you think Rachel Ziegler will be doing. She should. You think so? She should. You think she, A, will she be doing interviews? B, should she, which you just answered, but C, most people are going to ask her about the snow white stuff.

They're going to. I mean, her first interview, I mean. It's inevitable with anything anybody works on, though. If you do not want to be asked about any other project, I guess you need the power to get the studio, the PR folks, whoever is in charge to like make some sort of like locked in rule that nobody's allowed to ask about anything else. Or it's just, it's inevitable.

It's the way the industry and interviews work. You think she should be? You think she should be getting interviews and you think she should address that or not address it? I mean, I can only speak from my personal standpoint on that. If I were to interview Rachel and there were no rules about what I could or could not ask, what I would probably do is find some sort of

positive, meaningful way to ask about that movie, something that I would have at least a little bit of confidence that nobody else was asking, and could also hopefully, you know, find a way to celebrate her work and make her feel good about it rather than being accusatory or trying to stir anything up. I don't think you're ever going to get an interview.

If you start doing the accusatory stuff with an interview, you're going to be in trouble anyway. But for me, I would be, I would be, curious. I'd be curious about if like, because I think there's a way to ask someone so like, because I don't think she went about it the right way, the way that she was addressing. Oh, I was thinking about the picture. What did she say? I don't follow any of like the gossipy drama stuff. What were you thinking about? Like the really weird looking still that they just released. Oh, no, no, no. I was talking more so about the stuff that she caught all the blowback for the

stuff that she talked about in Snow White where she was on the, she was on the press line for D23, I think. it was with Galgado Dode, and they kind of really went after the original movie, and almost to where it was like putting down people who liked it, it felt like. It did, and I watched a lot of the clips, and there was other clips, and it just, and I don't think that was her intent. Maybe it was, I don't know, but it's like she pretty much went after the fact that it was, that in this version, that Snow White isn't going to be rescued by the prince, and she doesn't need true love, and she doesn't, like, all these different things,

and in the way that it was, and she said in the original movie, she said she picked it up once, she never picked it up again, she didn't really, really like it, and the original, was it director's son, like really came out against her.

And one of the theories is that because she got, I mean, she got a lot of, a lot of pushback from people who were on her side, and then obviously there were people who were just going to want to go after her to go after. But the rumor is that they pushed back this film because you know how the internet goes.

They get, and then they forget after a little bit. So that's kind of what. This seems very dramatic to me. I'm just reacting to how you're describing it. I didn't watch the clip for myself or anything, but I feel like there's a lot of other things that people say out there that maybe we should come down on a little more harshly than those kinds of comments. Absolutely.

This is the whole point of redoing these in live action too, is to update the fairy tale in general anyway. So when you rally against it and rail against, you know, oh, I can't believe they're going to give this princess agency. If you do look at the original Snow White doesn't have a lot of active choices. I think it was less about that, though, and I don't think I'm giving, I think you should definitely watch the clips first too, because, yes, in that particular circumstance, you want to update it. You want to make things a little differently. The way they did Cinderella.

Sure. Cinderella was done and it was updated very well in a better way. It was less about the fact of the updates. it was more so of saying, because there was a TikToker who actually did like this whole thing who said, you made me feel bad at the fact that I liked it. You made me feel that the fact that I had to go out,

that I wanted to, like not all, like the fact that she made an emphasis, Rachel Zieglu did, made an emphasis on the fact that in this one, Snowy is a warrior or a leader. And the woman, the TikToker said, not all women want to be leaders and everything. She's like, if you do, that's great.

And I love that for you, but some women do want true love. Some people do want that thing, and you made me feel bad for that. That thing went, like, ultimately real viral. And I think she came back, she came out, and she kind of had, like, I don't know if she stepped it back or not. I didn't pay as much of attention to it. All I knew is that the movie, whether the original still that came out of the dwarves, I don't know if that was even a real one, and then they did the CGI dwarves that came out.

They pushed it back, and the question is, PR-wise, she was not getting a lot of, like, positive PR. So kind of spinning back into it, if I'm her PR people, I'm with you, I'm going, talk about it. And here's what you need to say because you've got to get people back on board. I'm trying to think of what I would actually ask her if I had this opportunity to kind of lean into it, but not directly address it. I'd say what happened. No, I wouldn't say what happened. This is a bad surface level question, I feel, but I would probably try to lean into the idea of, of, here's what I would ask.

Here's a question that I actually do ask every once in a while. I've gotten to this habit of asking compound questions that ask people to consider two different sides of something because I feel like sometimes that could spark things that you didn't even realize you were thinking to begin with. I would probably ask her going into the filming of the movie, what quality of this version of Snow White were you most excited to play? But then I also want to know what quality of the character wound up

being more creatively fulfilling for you to tap into than you ever could have imagined. And then all of a sudden you tap into those ideas and what makes this character special, but without maybe directly addressing, like, in the past, just said this. What a fucking pro. Oh, she's the best.

Oh, my gosh. She's the best. But this is also what I love about our styles, right? I've always come from, like, the Howard Stern interviewing type of thing. Well, I will, for me, I'd want to have a full-on conversation with her, but I wouldn't be accusatory in any stretch of the imagination. But I would also be like, well, you know, lots's been going on in the last, like, you know. And I try to make her laugh.

You know, and I'd be like, well, with all that stuff, like, did you feel that that was the way? Like, those, let's talk about that interview at D23. Like, that's the one for me that a lot of people are talking about. You see that. You see the reaction. What happened there? Like, and- Like Howard Stern, when you say that.

But that's what I would do. Like, that's, to me, but that's, that is what works for your style, what works for my style. And why I think that people have been also signing up for the, for the conversation. but I would never be like, all right, you fucked up. Like that, because then the PR goes, no. Yeah. Do you ever get mad at a PR person for stopping an interview? Do you ever stop an interview?

That's only happened to me once. Happened to me once also. I was a little, little itty-bitty baby in this industry. I don't even know if I should, if I should say it just because, I don't know. I'm not going to tell you what the movie was, but I was talking to someone at like a regular standard junket. This person was paired with two other people. I was working for a big outlet, so I had an eight-minute slot.

And usually the mentality is, if you have eight minutes, use the first six or seven to talk about the movie they're promoting, and then ask you newsy question. So that is what I did. I turned to this person and like, are the rumors true? Whatever my question was. And almost immediately after I said that a representative walked in between me and the talent and demanded and said,

are you ever going to ask about this movie? And I think that person just walked in the room late and maybe didn't realize. I think there was some sort of human error there, but that was one of my first junkets ever. That sucks. And I'm like, I've ruined everything. So I have, the one for me was actually during one-on-one

for Krishna-Rolfe. I did, I was, I was sat down with somebody for like an hour at Collider. And remember, since gone through a couple more controversy, but you remember Jason Mitchell. Mm-hmm. So Jason Mitchell at one point, it had something to happen like this airplane or something. that happened, right? And he walked in, and I introduced myself to him, and I said, hey, before I get started,

is there anything that I don't want to talk about that I can't touch on? He's like, oh, man, I'm open back, asked me anything you want. I was like, great, okay, so that means I'm going to, it's pre-tape, it's not live. So I'm in the middle of the interview, and I, and I get to it, and it's organic, and it's a plain thing. What happened? And the PR steps says, no, no, no, and I'm like, you could have told me to cut it out afterwards, and I would have. I didn't say this to them, but I'm going, in my head, because I wanted to play nice, and I go, okay, we'll cut it out, and we cut it out. But I'm going, come on, if I'm going to be a pro, and I'm going to do my thing, I'm going to ask the question. And if he doesn't want to talk about, he also said, I'm not going to go there, move on.

I said, let's move on. I've cut out many things on interviews that we've done before. And it's because we're like, let's not, if we could, there was an interview that I did with somebody, it wasn't, it wasn't one that you had done with me, but there was one. And I brought up this whole thing, and it was like a 10 to 15 minute conversation. And then I was talking to the person outside, and they were like, I don't know, if I feel comfortable with that, I'm like, it's out.

Yeah. Because I don't want, my, it's so easy. It's so easy. But don't, don't flag me down. Just communicate your needs, folks. Just communicate. Don't flag me down in the middle of the thing. It's just like, just like, hey, we'd prefer if you don't air that.

And I'm going to say, I'll cut it out. I will say, I wouldn't like if that happened. I always just try to remind myself that these representatives are on high alert. That's true. And sometimes if they hear something that, like puts up that red flag immediately. It might be a knee-jerk reaction. And they're just trying to.

They could have been new publicists. They're just trying to do their job and protect their clients. And I always try to remind myself of that. But of course, that doesn't take away from the fact that there's, you know, there's good ways to enforce those rules. And then maybe you should.

That's it. But either way, we're looking forward to doing more interviews. Who wants to talk to us now? No, but I actually, people are enjoying talking to us. And I'm excited about it once it starts. But the question is, when will it start? So this is where we go. Now, the writer's strike, that was the one everyone said, is going to last forever.

And it lasted forever. And then they finally came to deal. And they're like, okay, well, now that this is over, sag's going to be done in a couple of days. Well, still not done. So I'm going to ask both you guys. As I said, this is Wednesday we're taping, airing on Thursday morning. Chris, is there any chance that by the time we air this on Thursday morning at 9 a.m.,

that there's already been an announcement that the sack strike is over. All the hope in me says yes. Yeah. I want, I've said this before, I want it to be like a new Pope being selected. I want smoke to just come out of the AMPTP building out of Disney, and we all are okay. We keep getting some kind of differing information, though,

especially in our sag emails, right? Of we've made a lot of headway, we've made a lot of progress, and then we'll get another message of, we are still very far apart on issues. And I just need those two ideas to be congruent. Because they don't want you off the lines. why. Exactly. And I completely understand, and I keep hearing the rumors that the big thing that we're not coming to terms on is AI. And that's one too, that for me at least, when you look at all the things

that they're not budging on when it comes to AI, when it's essentially just consent, really. Consent and your voice and your face in perpetuity, especially if you're signing up for these big franchises, it's insane to me. And it ultimately is just a big issue of consent that I don't understand why people can't get on board of of, I should give permission for what you do with my face and body. I think that's pretty fair and reasonable. A hundred percent. Do you think in any world this is over by tomorrow? I wish, but no.

I think it's going to end. My big prediction last Friday, I guess, when they said they were taking negotiations through the weekend. My mentality was, why are you going to, why are you going to, why are you going to negotiate? through the weekend if there isn't actually an end insight, if the end wasn't going to be announced, maybe not over the weekend, but in the coming days. So I do know that the negotiations are a little more complicated than what they were doing with the WGA in certain respects. So, you know, it feels silly to even do this because who really knows. But if I, like, if I were to guess at this point, I'll say early next week. There is some sort of resolution. But I wouldn't be all. all that surprised at this point if negotiations continue throughout the week and then the weekend again and then maybe we near an end. But my big hope is that, and all I've really wanted since the WG, actually since they last were heavily negotiating and then things fell apart. I'm like, oh, no, it's going to be until 2024. Then I started to think, please just end it before Thanksgiving.

Please end it before Thanksgiving for so many reasons to get people back to work and treated fairly first and foremost, but also, you know, to salvage award season, to let artists celebrate their achievements, and also just to let everybody be human beings and feel positive and good during the holidays. I have to imagine these greedy studio heads have even like a teeny tiny bit of that in them and want that to. Thanksgiving is already such a fucking nightmare if you're an actor of just, so what have you been in lately? Have you considered what I talked to you about before of going back to school? Have you thought about being a flight attendant? I think you would love that. It's very performative. It's already such a cluster that we just need

just a little nugget to go back home with of, and hey, we're getting fair wages. Isn't that neat, Grandma? A little part of me just died inside knowing that you have to go through that every holiday. I'm super lucky. I've got very supportive parents, but up until maybe five years ago, they'd be like, you know, we can still send you to culinary school. You're so talented. Yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it. The reason, another reason why, to kind of piggybacking up what you just said, you also hope that there's a couple of gigs and people could start getting back on getting paid. Because Christmas is right around the corner. And even if it's a small amount to lead up to that you can get a couple of checks, you know, if you are working and there's a show you can work on or there's a commercial you can get, there's anything you can do to add a couple of bucks in your pocket so you can, you know, buy your loved ones some gifts or whatever it might be. That's coming up right on the corner.

And I'm sure that is a consideration for sure. I do think, I mean, look, my predictions over the last week have been disastrous because I thought it was going to be over last weekend. I thought it was going to, I said, we're getting an announcement by Tuesday. But I get, you know, getting the same as, I'm in SAGs while I get the emails. And it's, it's, I do think that they're basically, we can't get people off the lines yet. We need people on the lines. And so we, and so that's why it's pretty much, and they've said, don't listen to anything

else that you hear unless you hear it from us is. And I think that's fair. I do think that we'll get something by this weekend, by this weekend. Because I think that they want to get people, because the problem also is, let's say, hypothetically, that it does, and they come to an agreement, they don't ratify it, but they come to agreement, people can go back to work in like a week and a half, two weeks, as you're saying, right? The problem is, then you've got to take another break because Thanksgiving's right there.

So you don't have any, at least if you did it now, you got to look. little bit of time, like a couple of weeks to put a couple checks together, right? And then you have a couple weeks before Christmas. As we know, the business itself, it ain't getting back together until like January. January is really when it's going to start moving again. And thank God, because it's not like we needed it after COVID. Right. Well, and it affects us really so intensely here, too, in our market because it just affects every aspect of life in L.A. It affects every business here. Same with Chicago, same with New York, Austin to a degree, right? All those other smaller markets that do stuff. And so the economy just takes this huge hit as well. And I don't

think people in, you know, in those lovely Midwestern states fully understand that sometimes of, oh no, when these strikes happen, everybody from the actor, you know, to the Greensman, to an accountant, to a craft services person, to a caterer, those people are affected to. And that's the big issue here is that it's just shutting down everything. And these guys don't need other yachts, so just like figure it out. Figure it out. And I think that they will. And the fact that they haven't, to me, is nuts. But not those kind of nuts, but nuts.com. That's right. Nuts.com. We are so excited to be with Nuts.com as well as NutraFall. We love both of them. So let me tell you about both of those

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That's NutraFall.com slash men, promo code, big thing. All right, thank you to our friends over at Nuts.com and NutraFall. As I've mentioned, many times over on this show, if you want to support the show, if you have the means to support the show, please consider one of our wonderful sponsors. All right, let's keep going with the SAG stuff because this is ultimately where I wanted to go with this. Let's say that we get lucky, and this thing is over by tomorrow, right?

Let's say it's over by tomorrow. Perry, what does the business now look like? Now that they've come to terms, whatever it was, with AI, as you were mentioning, Chris, with percentages that people get now with streaming, with residuals with everything too, because negotiations again come back up in three years, whatever it is, right? What do negotiations?

Because negotiations would be different because obviously I think that when the directors took what they did, the writer said, well, we want more than that, and we need more than that because of what we do, and then the writers got their deal, and then the actor said, well, wait a minute, they got what they wanted, but we need more than that. Because normally what it used to be is, all right, you gave them that deal? We'll take that deal, too. That was not the case this time around. So what does the business look like moving forward?

That's a big question with a million answers. Give me all a million. Most broadly what I think the business looks like moving forward is that there's still an emphasis on streaming services, but not necessarily flooding the streaming services with content. I think we're going to see a better balance of theatrical releases and streaming releases. I also think we're going to see probably a pretty significant reduction in massive budget blockbusters because the sad truth is like if you're going to spend 300 million plus on your movie, your odds of actually making that money back and calling your production successful are kind of slim to none now. Look at how many of those movies just didn't hit their necessary numbers this year.

It's kind of staggering. Indiana Jones, Fast X for sure. Yeah, that's many. I think that's going to be, I think that's going to be the big thing. And just overall, I think there's going to be less new content. And I don't like that on the one hand.

Less new content or less new big budget content? Less new content in general. Yeah. I just think we've hit up. And I think it's mostly from the big studio perspective. I still think we're going to wind up with, you know, maybe a similar amount of independent films every year.

but I think that, you know, the Netflix's of the world have been throwing money at so many projects and saying we need like X amount of new releases every single week. That's going to stop because that model was unsustainable before and now that they're going to be held accountable, it is especially unsustainable. So on the one hand, that stinks because that means there's going to be less opportunities out there. But the hope is, is that it's going to write the ship and make this industry sustainable for the long term instead of just a moneymaker right now. Yeah, what it also means is that Netflix will be a lot easier to find stuff on. You don't like just digging through there being like, what the fuck? Let me tell you. I've talked about this already, but I'm going to vent to you guys as well.

And I want to get your thoughts, obviously, too, but I have to vent to you both. Netflix, whoever's in charge of the Netflix trailers when you click on Netflix, when you're scrolling through something, should be arrested and thrown in jail forever. Because in what world, if I'm going through and I see, oh, I don't, I don't, I, I like Dermot Moroni. What's he in? And it's like, okay, well, and you scroll over and now, here's the scene. And Dermott Roney is making a ham sandwich.

And he's like, oh, this is a great ham sandwich. And would you like some of this ham sandwich too? And then there's a girl. She's like, I like the ham sandwich. Great. And it's a ham sandwich conversation. And then it's a murder mystery. And there's no ham sandwich ever for the rest of the thing.

And the little kids only for one second. It's like, that's not the movie. It's just one stupid scene. It doesn't tell you about it. Who came up with this plan? Am I? Do you? I thought you were going to complain about it auto playing.

I hate, well, the auto played a trailer, if it auto played an actual trailer, if I don't know what the movie is and it's like the same trailer I find on YouTube starts playing, great, because now I know what the movie is. Oh, that looks interesting. It's not a representation. It's one scene. It's not a representation of the whole movie. I hate it. It drives me nuts. Chris Carr, what are your thoughts on what it's going to look like?

I concur. Yes. Thank you. I want that movie to be solely about a ham sandwich then. Ham sandwich. Shaking my fist at like the kids who stole all my candy on the. Only hams. Aw.

Bastards. That's the worst. Teenage kids. Vent number two. It's Halloween the other day. So people don't, people say, oh, you're lazy if you put the candy in the bowl and say take, take two. My six shall was exhausted. Had to put her in the bath, had to put her to sleep.

So I was like, you know what I want to do? I want to make sure that the trick or treaters are still coming out. They can have some. So I put a whole thing. So looked at my ring camera. and these teenagers, first of all, you know what you're doing. These teenagers come in there,

and they're all dressed up. They're there to cause havoc. And they just dumped the whole thing. And I was, I walked outside afterwards. I left my little one for a second. I walked outside. And I saw one of the guys. And I go, come on.

You know what you did. He's like, I took one. I go, you didn't. I just watched the whole thing. I was like, you left none for any little kids. He's like, oh, we only took one. I'm like, you don't need to lie. Own it.

Own it. And I was like going back inside. But I tweeted out at one point, like these damn teenagers. I was like Clint Eastwood shaking my fist on the porch. Have you watched Trick or Treat? No, I don't think so. Oh my God. Have you what?

No. You love that movie. I need a breath right now. Didn't you interview the director recently? Yeah, we did. I haven't told you about any of this. We did the whole scary Perry horror series at Landmark Theater. You took the Trowdown name with you?

So the funniest thing was, was we were trying to figure, They're like, we're trying to figure out a name for the series. And someone actually wrote Scary Perry. I'm like, you know, that was my nickname. So I think we have to do. So we did. But I programmed four movies and we had four post-screening Q&As. And one of them was for trick or treat.

And Mike Dorety came into the Q&A. Amazing. That is besides the point. As you were explaining that, you are literally Dylan Baker's character in that movie. Shakespeare's fist. Yeah, where like a kid comes up and tries to take all the cameras. And he's literally like, don't waste a good lie on this, Charlie. It's just candy.

But the point being, next year what you should do is you should put that bucket out like that. And you should just have that segment of trick-or-treat playing in the background so they know that if you break that particular rule of Sam, the villain, the villain, the anti-hero in that movie, then Sam going to come and get you because you broke the rolls of Halloween. Well, here's a question for you. Is Sam a mortal? Ah, sorry, clip. He is. You think so. Yeah.

I like what he said. Sam's adorable. I love Sam so much. Sam is technically, you know, like the big bad, the slasher of trick-or-treat. Coolest thing about Sam is he only kills when you break the rules of Halloween. He's just there to celebrate the holiday. And that's it. Good for him.

Chris Carr, what are you thinking about all this stuff? Oh my gosh. Yeah, Perry, you don't know this about me. I am such a big wimp, so I don't watch any scary movies. Do you like Pocus, Pocus? I do like hocus pocus. So trick or treat is a step up from hocus pocus scare-wise, but I do think you can handle trick-or-treat.

Okay. It's not meant to like boo Oscar, you keep you up at night. It's mostly like, like, cool movie magic, great story. Love celebrating Halloween this way. Cool. Like kind of like spooky stuff

in terms of like magic and things like that I'm usually okay with. It's the slasher stuff that freaks me out. I have a really big problem with eye violence. People touching eyes. Look at how big my eyes are, you guys. fear constantly. And so people touching their eyes just to even put in contacts, it makes

me puke. I assume you don't wear contacts. I don't. I don't. And I won't. I will just not see. It's fine. I will die on this hill. I don't need to see things. Describe them to me. Did something happen that gave you that fear? No, I just am terrified of it. And stuff's always like

getting in my eyes and stuff. I'm just existing in this world. This is such a weird question, but because you have banks and I have banks, have you ever gotten a bang hair in your eye. Yes. Where you pull it out and it legit looks like you're pulling a worm out of your eye, like horror movie style.

It's horrific. It's horrific. But my friends were like, oh, come over. We'll watch Werewolf by Night because you can handle that. And I was like, I love Wehralf by Night. Let's go. And then we've got this other one. It's called Becky.

And it's like, uh, it's like Home Alone. But if they could do the real murders, right? And then that immediate Kevin James, uh, happened. And I just, um, had to run upstairs. Oh, like, legit. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. Well, we all, we all figured that out. I like thrillers more so than ours. I love a thriller. Yeah, same. I feel like my job is done on this show. Somehow I let horror conversations bleed in the beginning of November. You did it.

You made it work. You're welcome. You made it work. All right. So jumping back into the conversation, which I am responsible for swaying away from. Where do you think the business is going from this? Is it going in good? Do you concur with Perry?

Yeah. How do you feel? I totally echo what Perry was saying. I've got some friends who are execs over at Disney and I know that they are talking a lot about how they need to scale back tremendously because it's been so much quantity over quality and it hasn't been stuff particularly when it comes to television programming that just hasn't fired on all cylinders

and it's because one, they weren't using showrunners which was bananas when that got leaked I was like what? In what world? In what world? Everything I've ever pitched has had a show Bible and who the fuck am I? Like, you've got Disney money, do it. But I know that they're trying to scale back those kinds of things as well. I think, too, this is going to be really reminiscent of that 2007 writer's strike as well. We've already started seeing that uptick in reality television and gaming shows. Lataria, let's go.

But I think we're also going to see a whole bunch of really low-budget rom-coms, a lot more horror that you can do on a shoestring budget, as opposed to those big tent pole kind of movies, is just because you got to make the money back. And they are hemorrhaging. So not like Exorcist, where you have to pay $400 million to get the rights to a franchise? That's nuts to me.

Oh, my God. Is that what they had to do? $400 million. So they didn't really make any money out of that movie at all. Oh, they're in trouble. They're in trouble. I mean, they still have the rights. They could bounce back.

But from what I hear, it's going to be a pretty significant creative shift, given how that first one did. No one owns the rights to demonic possession except the Lord. But you know, but you can, you know what's, you're right. You can do it anytime you want. But you know, as much as I agree, that that's a very funny joke and also very true. And I'll tell you why.

Because that movie, if you, I've seen it. I know you saw it. And I actually heard on your show, I was with you 100%. Here is the whole point of that movie. It's set up really well with the actors. It's set up great. And then at one point you go, oh, this is a sequel to the exorcist because it needs to be. It's like, oh, there's the music.

There's that character. You literally could have, and I think you said the same thing. You could have made this just another possession movie, and it would have been fine, but you wanted to get the money off the IP, so you called it Exorcist. It was unnecessary. You could still call it Exorcist, but just not include that one particular storyline. All right. Oh, yeah, she didn't, yeah, it was not good.

But either way, what I will tell you, though, where I agree with both of you, is the cutting back for a lot of different reasons. One of the things that is going to change for the worst, which we're already seeing, is the change in price on these subscriptions. Because they need to now pay for a lot of different things. They're going to have to pay more for the residuals. They're going to need to pay for a lot of things

that they didn't have to pay for before that they now have cut these deals with because you could cut these deals with, you know, somebody buys a show from NBC, and they put it on Netflix, and then Netflix isn't paying the, residuals well that's gonna that type of stuff is gonna change now so this descriptions are gonna go up I love the fact that you're gonna cut back on stuff on

like again like Netflix there's too much crap on Netflix that is churned out a whole bunch of stuff and a lot of different I think Apple has done it really well I think more people will follow that kind of model but I have been hoping and crossing my fingers that something would change the studios mentality and making these 300 million dollar movies because the only like there's a very few movies to me that earn that type of budget. Endgame earned that budget. Avatar 2 earned that budget.

Those movies earn those budgets. Fast acts, I don't care how many times you made a billion dollars outside of it. You don't earn a $350 million budget. It's ridiculous. Black Adam did not earn a $220 million budget. Indiana Jones did not earn a $300 million budget. I don't care about how many reshoots or all that stuff too. Now, this will go into our other story in a second here,

but like Blade they announced. They're cutting all the stuff back on what they were going to do, Blaine, they're going to make it for like $100 million. Fantastic. I'm super into that. Fantastic idea. Give me practical vampire effects. Oh my gosh, go full underworld on this.

That's all I want. I want that for more movies like Terminator, right? Go back to the 1984 version. Start to change the industry around, right? And do like, go back to like make it look like 1984 again. Make it look like the way they shot in 1984. Like do these. They're potentially doing another robocop, but like a sequel after the 1987 version, right?

Like make it look like 1988. But not just in the set, but in the cameras and things like that. And I hope that that's what they kind of do and they scale it back that way and offer people points. I know that to them, they go, oh, my God, they shut her at night. The studio is actually offering people points. But go back to it so you don't have to pay these ridiculous salaries. I will say. Some budgets ballooned because of needing.

to deal with COVID protocols. So I don't want to knock any production if that's what added to it, but still, it just doesn't make all that much sense. But if you know that, Perry, but if you know you're in the middle of the production of COVID and there's going to be actually, even something as small as like the Schmowdown,

we had to have the understanding that our budget was going to be ballooned because of Schmodown. So we cut back costs on other things to say, okay, well, we can't spend that much money. So instead of doing a $200 million with an extra hundred because of all the COVID stuff and everything too. Say, we've got to rewrite. We've got to scale it down.

So some of the numbers that were reported, though, like those productions were so far in already that then it was tacked on. But I do get what you're saying there. But in general, I still think anything over a certain amount is absurd. And I'm a big believer that everyone needs to get paid what they are worth. And you at least need that baseline amount in order to do your job and do it well. but I do think in excess of funding winds up taking a wave and limiting the creative process. We wind up with better stuff when you know you have this much to work with you and have to make it work and you're going to find a creative solution to make it work.

And then all of a sudden you have something better than if you had thrown all the money and special tools in the world at it. 100%. I will say, I know you want less stuff on Netflix. I want less big budget stuff on Netflix, but I want to keep all the influx of shit they do. You guys, it is almost my time. It is all the Christmas movies. All the Christmas movies are going to be coming out. Oh, yes.

And they're so bad and they're so formulaic. And just, summer kind of delightful. I love them. That one with Kurt Russell was pretty good. Christmas Chronicles was sexy Santa. Yeah. I was not mad about it.

No. It wasn't mad about it at all. Didn't they do a second one? The second one was the first. They did. And then Goldie Hans there is, you know, Mrs. Claus. I saw a little bit of the first one. I thought it was pretty good.

This is my Super Bowl. This is what I get real hyped for you guys. I'm going to bracket them. Go, go for it. It's going to be great. People would love that. But if they're low budget and it makes sense to do and you can get people jobs from doing it, sure. And look, look, here's something that I read this morning that kind of plays in all this as well.

You look at that, what was no hard feelings? Is that the one that Jennifer Lawrence said? I just watched it. Okay. So before you tell me how it is, the, because it plays into kind of my point here, the movie itself didn't do great. in the theater. I think it did bad, maybe. It's crushing on streaming. It's crushing on streaming. And I've gotten so many people who have said, you got to check it out. It's actually pretty funny because I think there's something about watching it on streaming that plays better. I don't know,

but comedies in general don't do great now in the theater because people's theater experiences have just changed. This ain't 2009 when you're going to see the hangover in the theater anymore. That movie would, even that movie today, if that comes out, it's going to play. better on Amazon, I think, than it would today. I'm not talking about back then. It was fun. And I love watching comedies in the theater. It's just people, for the amount of money, people feel, I don't know what it is, but they feel

like they've got to be getting like a big event, a big thing. Look at the Killers of the Flower Moon. That one strong weekend, and then it's going to lose a lot of $200 million for that movie. Crazy. But Chris, what did you think in No Heart Feelings? Did you enjoy it? I didn't. I didn't.

I didn't. I think a lot of people enjoy this movie in the same way. People enjoy fast times at Ridgemont High. Oh, is that one of those moments? Hey, Jennifer Lawrence is fully naked. Oh, okay. And good for her. She looks great.

Good job, Jen. Yeah. There's some funny moments. The timeline of the movie doesn't work for me. A lot of the stuff that was meant to be really funny, that's all in the trailers. It's fine. It's one of those where it was. This is a fine movie, and it feels like a streaming movie.

As opposed to something you see in theaters. Whereas something like Joy Ride, right, which was hilarious. I love Joy Ride. Joy Ride was so great. And that underperforming. And of course, too, you don't have, you know, a Jennifer Lawrence star in that, but you have this incredible cast of actresses who are so funny, so good, and also deliver a heartwarming story mixed in there about female friendship.

Like stuff like that, I don't understand why that doesn't do better. Go in, go have some laughs. I had the best time sitting next to two 65-year-old women laughing at the same inappropriate shit. It was the great, like, equalizer of like, yes, we both think this is ridiculous that she has that tattoo on her vagina. Yes, let's go. Easily one of the best comedies of the year. Yeah, a lot of people raped about that one.

And I still, I haven't seen it, but I heard great things about it. Wonderful. But yeah, no hard feelings. So, Perry, that question, because this, I guess it adds into what the business will look like, right? Because a movie like that, and even a movie like Killers of the Flower Moon and Air, right? Air is one of my favorite movies of the year. It didn't do very well in the theater. But I think that they knew that and they didn't care because it was an Amazon prime release mostly.

It was a prime release. of course you want it, hopefully it does really well. But they put it out in the theater. It does whatever. And the same thing, Killers of the Flower Moon. That movie cost $200 million to make, so they probably wanted to make more than they did. But they knew it was going to be an Apple release. And then you get five nights at Freddie, which broke the rules.

This is an anomaly, that movie. Yes. And that movie did hand over fist on peacock and then hand over fist in the theater. So that one is like, now you're going to get the studios going, oh, maybe we do it again. Everyone's going to be chasing that. I think there's very few properties out there that could actually achieve what they just did with that. But, I mean, that is the other element of this. It's not just the industry and the way that we make movies and shows that have changed.

All of what they've done has completely changed the way that people take in that content now, too. And there's no going back. There's no changing it. you have showed people that you could, you know, sit on your butt at home and watch your shows and movies in the comfort of your own house. And like, I don't think there's anything wrong with anybody who chooses to do that. There are a couple of movies where I am personally so happy to see it on the big screen versus sitting home sweet home, but I can't really judge anyone for choosing one over the other. I think a film, I think a film should play great in both formats. But

the point of the matter is movie tickets are expensive and now streaming. services are becoming more and more expensive to subscribe to. And I kind of understand someone saying, I'm going to forego the movie ticket because I'm paying so much here and I'll just watch these instead. And you get so much more. And you get so much more than just one because if you go and you watch, let's see you watch Five Nights and Freddy, which I started and I bailed on it because I thought it was stink, but I also, I was tired. But I didn't cancel Peacock because I know there's a lot other stuff on Peacock I could watch, right? I go to the movies to see Five Nights of Friday, and I put $15 down or whatever it is plus snacks and everything too. And I'm walking out going,

well, that was kind of a waste because there's nothing else that you have. Removing five nights from this comment I'm about to make, the other thing going back to your point, that the theaters are kind of only for the big spectacle movie, I feel like that is baked into the distribution model because those are the movies that are least likely to be available on streaming services immediately or even quick enough, where it just creates the urgency to not get spoiled and to see it ASAP. And in that case, that is your only option is to see in the theaters. Oh, 100%. Spider-Verse just dropping, right? It's, oh, my gosh, okay, I get to finally re-watch this, but I went to that theater three, four times to keep watching it there because it was so cool

to see it on that screen. Exclusivity windows are important. Very much so. Let me ask you, Perry, how do you have the energy to do all this? I literally, before we started recording, I'm really, before we started recording, I I'm like, dude, I have no work-life balance anymore. I can't even lie about it. I don't sleep. Well, for me, it's AG1. And I use AG1 all the time.

AG1 is the best. I will absolutely. And I'll tell you a lot about it right now. Not only AG1, I'm also going to tell you about better help. I'll tell you about both AG1 and better help right now. I always get excited when I get a chance to talk about AG1. You guys know, if you've been listening to this show long enough, you know that I've been talking about them. I've been drinking them now for it's got to be at least two years.

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when we talk to, do it with them a one-on-one sessions that I do with people, though, yeah, I started doing and I love it. It gives me the energy that I need. Parents, I found new parents love this stuff, but everybody loves it. And not only for me did I replace my multivitamin with AG1 because I was never the multivitamin guy. I would try it and I was like, everyone's telling me, you got to do multivitamins, you got to do multivitamins. I can't do that many vitamins. One scoop. I put it on a water bottle. I put it in a zoo cup. I shake it up. I'm good to go. I recommended AG1 to everybody, my friends, my family, you guys, and it's worked out. It's great. I get energy. I I get a pep in my step.

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tremendously. I have people in my family that have now been using better help for the over the course of the last five months has helped them out tremendously. So it helps. So if you, if you you are thinking of starting therapy, give BetterHelp a try. It's online. It's designed to be convenient. It's flexible and it's suited to your schedule. You fill out a brief questionnaire. You get matched with the licensed therapist and then you can switch therapists anytime, no additional charge. If you want to get a break from your thoughts, BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash big thing today. You'll get 10% off your first month. That is BetterHelp.com slash big thing. Talk to someone. It helps.

I absolutely love AG1 and better help AG1 period I'm telling you it's it is the best because as I said I don't take I never took I was never like people would take so many vitamins during the day You just one scoop put it in a water bottle shake it up good to go it's the best I love it so I'm open to trying to trying to wean myself off the the chemical heavy energy drinks You should try it's not this I swear I feel everyone's like well what's on the table No no when you when you sign up to AG1 they give you all these travel packets and it's me at the Comic-Con's, like you just fire it up, go. It's amazing. So links are in a description.

If you're able to, you have the means to, and you want to support the show, please check out both age you want and better help. Before we go, I want to talk to you guys about this big Marvel article because I feel like this is going to be at least a 15, 20-minute conversation. So, Perry, when you came in today, we talked about it, and I touched about it briefly yesterday with Marisol and Adam about the blade stuff and then the Marvel stuff. So we can touch on all that that's in there. But when you read this article on variety about everything with Marvel, what stood out to you? I will preface any of these comments by saying that the article was released early Wednesday morning. Wednesday afternoon during my drive over here, I was already

seeing headlines saying Marvel refutes XYZ claims. So by the time this episode is out, it is possible that more of these claims will be refuted. But based on my initial read of that, I didn't read those other pieces because I was driving obviously, but based on my reaction to that original article, I mean, there were a million things that stood out to me. In particular, I got

very hooked on the paragraphs about the marvels. In particular, their claims saying that significant reshoots were done to fix a, like, I forget the words they use now, but

something to the effect of... It was a nice way of saying sloppy A convoluted storyline. And when I think about that, I'm not necessarily pointing a finger at the team who made the marvels and the marvels alone. That to me is likely a direct result from making too much MCU content and forcing viewers to need to watch multiple movies and now multiple shows in order to be able to enjoy your new feature release. And saying you don't have to. Mm-hmm.

Right. Doesn't make sense. You do have to almost. All of it connects, almost all of it connects, and you got to watch everything. So that was the big thing that stood out. And, you know, it's sad in me too, because that's another one. Like, what was it? $185 million production budget on that.

They said $250 million. It's even higher. Wow. One way or the other, the $75 to $80 million opening week in domestic projections is, you know, it's upsetting. And, like, I want to see three kick-ass lady heroes make all the money at the box. office and I love those three characters. I want to see their story serviced well and just to know that they're behind the scenes problems and it's not projected to do very well. It just makes me sad.

Well they also one of the reports also inside of that the Marvel's Christmas at Nita Costa, the director was was apparently supposedly. That was refuted. That was the one headline. Again, I did not read the article, but I did see that that it was refuted that like she stepped away. Yeah, apparently what it was is that she had. that she was working on another project and she left early to go work on this other project. So the inside source said that that was the case and that Kevin Feigy had to come in and do some changes and everything too. And that's why they but, you know, there's this rumor about like there's a cameo from whatever it was. There was someone I don't want to mention in case it's true.

But there's a particular character that appeared in other movies in the past and that shows up and that that was done to try to get a little bit more umph to it and get people into the theater. I don't know. But either way, that movie to me is, and as I mentioned this yesterday, I mentioned it's a few different times. It's so reliant on the chemistry of the three actresses, right? And everything I've seen thus far in the trailers with their chemistry looks great. The stuff that they've done, the dialogue, the back and forth, not being able to promote it will be hard if hopefully they can get something done so they can do a couple of interviews. It might be tough, but it's because it's coming out next week. So that might be a big problem as well. But my issue with the movie and the trailers are my same issues with Black Adam, same issues

with Blue Beetle, same issues with Shazam, The Flash, Aquaman trailer. It looks like a generic superhero movie that I have seen a thousand times. And Blue Beetle and Ms. Marvel, both had really good, strong character and family stuff is what the family stuff of Ms. Marvel, that's why you watch that show. It's incredible. That's why you watch it. The superheroes stuff, I can't remember it. I can't remember it.

It was so forgettable. Like, who cares? It's, and I was, well, it's Marvel. You got to have superheroes off. I get it, but make it more memorable. The scene that they just released recently of fighting in the living room, I didn't even finish it. And I was like, I'll just see it in the theater because it just looks like this doesn't,

it doesn't look good. And I hope I'm wrong. I hope it's great. But this is an issue for Marvel because of what you said. There's just too much. I don't keep up anymore. I am not caught up on all the Marvel series. And another thing that I've repeated that I think has hurt the franchise overall quite a bit is think about what we used to do in 2016, 17, and 18.

You only had a select few new releases. You would spend so much time looking forward to those releases. You would theorize about what was going to happen in them. then they would come out and you would promote the crap out of them and talk about them nonstop. And then in the weeks after, you would sit there and talk about them with each other and get different interpretations and theorize about what's to come. Because we get such a steady stream of new content, that kind of conversation is wiped off the map. There is no engagement on that level anymore and that dilutes the experience. I also think streaming has a lot to do with that as well too.

And with the show, not just the shows in Marvel, because I agree with everything you just said. But I also think because at that time, the 2016, 2017, there weren't a lot of streaming shows. There weren't things like Stranger Things. Like, Stranger Things to me is the last season of Stranger Things, to me, was better than the first season. I loved the last season. But people talked about it for a couple of weeks, and that was it. It's like that week to week to week, it makes it more special. And it's the same thing what you're talking about, which if you have movies to look forward in the events, that's why I do think, if Star Wars does it,

right in 2016 in 2016 in 2026 with that ray movie if they do it right and they get the right movie that movie will perform very very well because we haven't had a star wars movie since 2019 but you're going to have to beat a lot of people that are rooting for it to fail you're going to have to beat a lot of things that are for not even just the people who are rooting for fail people who are going I haven't seen a good star wars movie in a long time and I'm not talking about the haters I'm talking about regular people are just going I don't know you had to prove to me I don't know, Chris, what do you think about all this? Well, so much of the stuff we're getting lately, too,

it is this kind of flash and trash approach of, hey, here's this shiny new thing. Now let me get you a new one. Now let me get you a new one. And because we have so much content to consume, we just data dump everything. And you don't get those great water cooler moments like you were referring to here, right, of talking about everything. Not that we all go to the water cooler anymore either because we all work from home. But we don't have that anymore of sharing your theories, talking about it.

And for Marvel specifically, right? I love this stuff. My house is mostly comic books. It looks like we have children who live there. No, it's just me. And I don't think my friends should have to have me sitting next to them to fill them in on everything. Especially when they've been keeping up with the movies with me. Right.

You know? And then it is something like, well, I didn't catch all the Loki episodes. Oh, okay, well, let me fill you in on this because this happened. And that's why this post-credit scene is important and this is that. it's not accessible anymore. And I know that there's some kind of den of geekdom that is like good, keep it to us, keep out the filthy casuals. But that doesn't make one for good movies. It doesn't make money.

And the best part of a fandom is having accessibility so people can be ingratiated into it. And so you get to share it. And then if you want to learn more about it, oh my gosh, you can deep dive on this comic. You can go into this other supplementing materials. That's where all the fun, juicy stuff lies. Do you know what fandom made me feel like that recently? One piece. Yes.

I had never read anything. I saw the trailer and I said, I don't know. This might be for my daughter. And I did reactions to it and I loved it. How good is that show? I loved it. I loved it. I loved it.

I loved it. And what I was worried about was very, because I had kind of PTSD from like Game of Thrones and other things too. Like when you, if you said something wrong about Game of Thrones, the book, whatever it was too, the fandom would jump down your throat. And I was like, here we go. go. I said something wrong about the One Piece. They were the most loving fan base. It was great. They were like welcoming you in and going, oh, I want you to learn about this world and everything to, it was

awesome. I wish there were more fandoms that were like that. Come on, fellow straw hat. Let's go. 100%. I felt so welcomed by that fan base after doing all the episodes. It made me want to do more reactions to it because I was like, okay, if I do it and the people are just screaming at me the whole time and forget it. That's a show that does those Easter eggs so well too. The first time you hear that theme song done in there and you hear that come aboard and bring along all your hopes and dreams. I screamed. I screamed at my television and my friend who was watching with me was like, why do we care about this music? I was like, because it's from the first season and it's so great. It's so good. And there's just so much one piece too that like you are just, it's an embarrassment

of riches. Yeah. Because that's a show too where anime is fraught with filler. The filler on that is so fun. I love that. I love it and I love the fandom and I love that point. And then you know, you mentioned we were talking about Marvel and just the things of what they're trying to figure out, and you mentioned Loki. One of the things that you've got to figure out with Loki Season 2 is the stuff that's happening with Kang, and now they're going

into episode five now of Loki Season 2, and I loved 4, but the rumor is that, and Coy Gendro on the show on Friday brought up a good point that he thinks it's going to kind of lead us into the Marvels, but if you're not watching Loki Season 2 and

go to Perry's point, you might be confused with, it but one of those things inside of this report that you're talking about variety mentions jonathan majors and and kang what was what was the the gist of it uh well there was also something in regards to loki there in terms of setting up the character of kang in a big way for the franchise going forward and you know they're busy speculating on on what to do now and what is even possible to do now you know throwing out the suggestion of just recasting the role which i do think is very much an option, something they could consider. But then the other thing is pivoting, like pivoting to a completely different villain character

who could fill, you know, not that role exactly, but something about what they have planned for the character arc of Kang. But they got to, they got to figure something out there. They put a lot of eggs in that basket. Now, like you said before, I don't pay attention to everything that's going on. Did the trial happen? Is it open? Okay.

I have not fully read into every little detail, but the trial is still on the way. So there's still a possibility that he... I believe the variety articles says something again. I can't quote it directly. I don't have it on me, but something to the effect of, like, regardless of the outcome of the trial, can you hinge such a significant cinematic universe on someone who is going through this right now? So the outcome, no matter what you think about this, might not have any effect one way or the other

on how they handle the situation. I think it should if it turns out that he's completely innocent. I mean, I think it does. I think it very well might not be completely innocent, but I'm just saying if it turns out that they find out evidence because then that will be as much of a bad PR thing as anything else too. But with the court of public opinion, would that be enough even? He is legally cleared of everything and has found absolutely 100% infallible in all of this.

Are there going to be moviegoers who, for the most part, just didn't care to begin with? Or are there going to be other people who, well, you know, that thing happened? They will be. I'm not sure about it. And then does that make your movie audience go, I don't really want to be part of this franchise. I don't want to support that with my money. Well, but I look at like, let's say when we've talked about this in depth with the Ezra Miller situation. The Ezra Miller situation, I think, is.

was less, even less known than the Jonathan Major situation to the general public. Our circle very much in the know. Everyone I talked about that was in the outs, I remember walking to school with my daughter and her friend's parents, and I said, I did this on purpose, and I said, because he's a movie fan.

I said, what do you think about this whole Ezra Miller situation? He said, who's Ezra Miller? No clue. And this was when we were all talking about it every day. Oh, yeah. Now, the Jonathan Majors, I think, is a little bit more known, but I still wonder if, like, the casual movie fan, because it wasn't the Ezra Miller situation. If you put all of the, if you put a poll together of the people who are not watching this show right now, the casual movie fan, if you asked them, if you did a poll of like 200 people, the casual movie fan, why they didn't see the flash, I think the Ezra Miller situation would be on the lowest of the tears. I'm telling you the casual fan.

I'm not talking about the people in, because when I asked the casual fan when I was in New York doing that show, it was all, I don't care about superhero stuff as much anymore. I don't know if it ties into anything anymore. I don't really, it didn't look interesting to me, and I didn't hear anything about Ezra Miller. But when it came to people in our space,

Ezra Miller was very high up on the list. So I wonder if that would even matter, if indeed Jonathan Majors, and the difference is, Ezra Miller wasn't found innocent on anything, which is there was certain things that got dropped or whatever, too, and it just kind of like went away, and there wasn't a full investigation to everything.

I'm just saying hypothetically, if Jonathan Majors is, as you said, proven, there was no wrongdoing, there was this, if you're on the other side on Disney, you've got to say, that's what the court found, and he has the job, you got to let him do his job. Now, if it's murky and it still looks like he might have done some stuff, then that's a different conversation.

It's tricky. Yeah, I'm not going to tiptoe into speculating about any of that right now. I think it just kind of leans into the bigger necessity of needing a little bit of a Marvel overhaul right now and to stop, you know, stop leaning on the past so much. the narrative you've kind of shackled yourself to. And the other really cool thing that I liked in that Variety Report is, like, I'm not sitting here advocating for like a total MCU reboot. Like, just wipe away the pest and start fresh. I don't think that is something you should do

because they had many, many years of pristine, exciting storytelling where they brought fandoms together in a way that no other franchise has. But the variety article somewhat ends. I think it's one of the last points they make. with emphasizing the importance of the characters they got in the 20th century Fox acquisition and how the big reset but without actually resetting just while making the MCU fresh and different again could be leaning on Deadpool and Wolverine, the Fantastic Four, and X-Men. And that to me, again, I, like, I am not a writer.

I'm not a studio head somewhere out there might have a better idea than this, but from my perspective, that seems like the path to pursue right now. I talked about this yesterday. And just to reemphasize what I said, and I think you're going to agree with me because it's ultimately what you just said. And that is, and I've been saying this for a while, the audience probably getting sick of it. But you get rid of the multiverse thing, it's exhausting.

You finish it up. You do what you have to do. You get to the Avengers. You stop it. You find a way to end the multiverse, and then it's over. And then you approach the X-Men and Fantastic Four the same way you did phase one, two, and meaning do a storm movie, do a Wolverine movie, do a, do a Gambit movie, do a nightcrawler movie, whatever. And then they all come together in X-Men, the first big X-Men movie, right?

And then you can do a Fantastic Four movie, put them all together. They all kind of join together, but you have like a consistent through line. So that way you have, you know who your characters are, you know who you're, the other problem with Marvel that we've been talking forever. They have no all-stars right now. There's no all-stars. There's stars. There's no all-stars.

Build up the all-stars again. Get Wolverine in another movie. Do this, new Wolverine, they're going to introduce New Wolverine in Deadpool, obviously. You don't think so? Yeah, they're going to introduce it. I don't know. I think, I'll bet anything on it. That movie is already so overstuffed. But with the rumors of that, there's already going to be a lot of variants of Wolverine.

I think that it would be silly for them to not just say, now whether or not you find. Which one do you want? But whether or not you find out who actually is the Wolverine, whether it's, because there's rumors that Daniel Radcliffe is going to be in there, there's rumors of Terran Egerton is going to be in there. So if you put them all in there and then you go, which one really is Wolverine? That to me, it'd be a fun tease. Yeah, but you just said you don't like the multiverse. I find that the variant thing reduces the value of the actual character.

I am growing a little tired of that myself. Yeah, I'm still tired of it, but it doesn't mean that I'm not, that's not what I'm watching right now. I like what you said about having movie, movie, movie, and then X-Men movie, I just fear that they will not have. the patience to do something like that, especially because one of the other things in that report that they were throwing out there is making another Avengers movie and finding a way to bring the OG Avengers back, including Robert Townie Jr. and Scarlett Johansson. And basically, that whole paragraph to me reads as like a big old Band-Aid. Like, let's just put a Band-Aid on it and try to make it work this way.

That right there is not playing the long game. And I feel like leaning on any older, very popular characters or any, like, themes or story ideas or components that worked in the past, that's trying to kind of like plug the hole right now. I think they need to build a new foundation and take that into the future. I totally agree with. It would be very comic booky, though. No one's ever permadadad. The one's ever permade where all of a sudden's like, oh, I've got an exoskeleton. Oh, I use this crystal.

Oh, magic. Yeah, just ruins endgame now. It does. No, it absolutely does. When there's no stakes, and this is the problem with multiverse and variants and all of these things, when there's no stakes because somebody can be resurrected or another version of them can be found or anything like that, you don't care when people die anymore. Right.

So you know they're going to be back. They did a pretty good job with this with Gamora, at least, of no, that relationship will no longer exist. That's critical. Your love there is dead because this is a different person who is fully realized in a completely different way. And that was a really great kind of way to do a variant and show multiverse. and go, oh, see, there can be stakes. But you can't do that for every single character because it's the same story over and over again.

Same story, and you lose the specialty of what the Gamora thing was. So, yeah, I, it's, they've just got to get out of, they've just got to get out of this phase. And the other thing with, that they also mentioned that we talked about yesterday was Blade and that, as we were talking about before, with budgets,

Mahershaw Lee is 49 years old. You've got to figure this out soon. Not that he couldn't play an older Blade, but, you know, you would do, Hugh Jackman is having to eat all this chicken now and do all this stuff. And it's a wear and tear on the- That poor man. So many rotissaries.

Too much chicken. God. But it's the wear and tear on someone to be able to keep themselves in that. Chris Hemsworth has had an issue with it. And you know, you're 49. You're going, look, I'll do a couple of them. But what are we doing the first one? And it's like, well, probably in like five years.

They got a new screenwriter now. They're cutting the budget down. the rumor was that they were doing the emphasis on the movie wasn't even on blade it was on other characters and it's like what and the reason why I believe that is because of the same thing that had just happened

with Daredevil and they had to go in Kevin Feigy was like okay enough is enough I think Kevin Feige was thinking that he could step back more and realizing he couldn't because there's a lot of and I think he gave too much freedom to some directors sometimes I think it's another reason why we have

some of the issues that we have with Dr. Strange multiverse of madness, the Tyca movie, it's just been messy. I don't think it was about him making a conscious choice to step back and give people more creative control over individual projects.

I don't think he had a choice. Because it was too slant. I think it's at a point where like literally everyone there is spread too thin, spread too thin over the franchise, over their individual projects. That's why the VFX folks are like, listen like enough is enough

this is ridiculous and we need to fix the system absolutely this was a lot I think we could have probably talked for like two more hours That should just be the title of this episode This is a lot

This is a lot So deal with it I think that they're gonna click Just to see you guys And it doesn't even matter I could have stuck out But it was a pleasure to have you both On the show together

I hope we can do it again Chris where can the peeps find you Oh yes you can find me on Instagram It's Chris Carr or if you were interested in voiceover, speakfriendstudio.com or on Instagram. And Amy Newman and I have a podcast out now. It's called Two Filty Casuals. If you are somebody who wants to get into a fandom,

but you're kind of concerned about how other people can be judgmental sometimes or things like that, we bring in a fandom expert. There are no dumb questions. And we just talk about why they love that fandom so much. I love that. We're like five episodes in. It's a gas. What a lovely idea.

Thank you. Perry, where can they find you? Oh, my. Where can you not find me at this point? You cannot find me getting eight hours of sleep, that's for sure. You can find me on the Collider Extras YouTube channel every morning, Monday through Friday, live at 10 a.m. Pacific, talking about movie and TV news for 15 plus minutes.

And on Twitter, Instagram, TikTok. I'm all over the place. Make sure you do that. Follow both Chris and Perry. And then you'll be seeing a lot more Perry because we're going to turn this whole corner into Perry's little corner. And we will be doing a few more. interviews once we're able to. Let's cross our fingers. By the time you guys are watching this,

the strike's over. Let's hope. Make sure that you comment. Click that like button. Of course, if you haven't already done it, guys, we're so close. We're almost there. Almost at 100,000. Show a little class, will you? Hit that button. We are almost, almost, almost at the promised land. We've been trying for a little bit. So we hope that you help us get there. We hope that you get to Flappers. That's right, on December 2nd, myself, Brett Sheridan, Coydandro, Roxy Shrier hosting, Kate Mulligan, Winston, A. Marshall, and Chris Carr, all doing stand-up comedy that night. So link is in the description. Come on out.

Hopefully we're sold out already. I don't know. Hopefully. Thank you for joining us again. Love to have you here. Apple Podcast, Spotify, Everywhere Podcasts are found. And we'll see in the flip side. Bye.