The Kristian Harloff Show - Masters Of The Universe Gets a Blank Check, Griffin Newman in Studio! | The Big Thing

Episode Date: September 17, 2021

Masters of The Universe Revelation definitely got them talking! Orko was a main point of the conversation with He-Man, Teela and the crew all doing their thing. Well Griffin Newman from the very popular podcast Black Check joins Kristian Harloff today. They discuss MOTU, The Tick, and Griffin's incredible journey in the entertainment industry. Follow on Twitter Kristian Harloff https://bit.ly/31PePMD Mark Ellis https://bit.ly/2U1wKPa Brett Sheridan https://bit.ly/2HBltii Steph Sabraw https://bit.ly/3m0ud0z Kate Mulligan https://bit.ly/3owBneT Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Welcome back to The Big Thing. Thank you for everybody who's been joining us. This is a fun episode today. I got Griffin Newman, Griffin News, Blank Check, Masters of the Universe, and Downtown Griffey Newman from the Shmodeon. We have so much to talk about. He and I. We're just going to bullshit about movies, to be completely honest with you,

but I want to talk to him in general. Last time I spoke to him was on Clyder Live, and we didn't really get to dive into the deepness that is Griffin Newman, and I'm going to get some more answers out of him. So that's what's going to happen on today's show. But to also let you guys know, if you didn't already know this, on October 8th, we're going to be in New York. Speaking of Griffin-Newman, he's going to be there on October 9th,

battling Josh Horowitz. But I will be battling the New York crowd. Once again, I'll be in New York, New York Comedy Club with Mark Ellis, getting back on that New York stage, get tickets, mark ellis. If you are in the Los Angeles area on the 26th, I will also be doing some comedy there at the 4th,000, Flappas Comedy Cub in Burbank. So please come out and check that out.

Links are in the description. But we're not talking about me anymore. We're talking about Griffin Newman. We're doing the big thing. We're going to have some fun. Join us. Here we go. Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen. This is the big thing. It's me. It's Christian Harlow. It's you. The audience.

And is this guy? Griffon Newman. It's Griffin Newman. It's Griffin Newman. Ladies and gentlemen. How you doing, Griffith? Should I, Josh? Should I be more like this? Is that the angle? I think that's the way that, you know what? Normally the other kids do it the other way, but I like the way you're doing it.

Maybe this is the way to do it. I think that's more, I think it's more attractive. I think it's more professional. Yeah. Yeah, I like that. You can maneuver around that. I like that. Look at that shirt, which...

Isn't this good? It's a really good shirt. Where did you get that? I'll tell you, the thing I've been doing is, I think, like, a lot of people, looking around your garage, I have a feeling you're the same way. Look at my garage. I mean, you're in it. I know.

I wish, uh, I was so, just being here makes me jealous of the fact that. that I live in New York and don't have a garage. Just not because I don't have a driver's license. I wish I had this extra space to put all my bullshit. It took a while. I'll tell you what, it took a while for me to figure this all out on how to do this in general.

And there was one of the main things of trying to, when I left Collider, it was in order to find a place. I had to find somewhere that I could turn into my own playhouse to where I could buy a Tony Soprano painting. And my wife is like, you're not putting that anywhere except here. Right, right.

See, I'm in the backwards order, which is I need a place to put all my stuff so that that doesn't hinder the ability to get a wife. Makes sense. Like, here's the normal place you get to cohabitate with. Don't worry about that spot. Don't worry about that. You don't have to look at that.

Yeah. Well, it's good to see you, man. Good to see you, too. What was I going to say? There was something I was going to say before I started talking about all the stuff in here at the garage. I don't know. We're going to talk. We're going to talk.

We're going to talk. It's something I wanted to do for a while with you because it's so funny. Because Alex Marzonia, he might be your biggest fan. He's up there. He's certainly put in the work. He helped me a lot. in terms of getting into Shmowdown. Yeah.

Well, that's the funny thing. He, like, he didn't have to. Yeah. We were like, you know, after we had that conversation, everything, too. But he's like, dude, you got to watch this guy. Like, he's not going to just, like, be like a celebrity that competes. He's going to be good.

And boy, are you. Right. Well, I think the thing he knew, too, is, so I, I host this podcast, Blank Check with David Sims, who's a film critic of the Atlantic. And that podcast came out of David and I being upset. with a weekly movie trivia night in Brooklyn. This bar, RIP, videology that was this great place in Williamsburg that used to be a DVD rental place.

And then when that sort of cratered, they became a movie-themed bar where you could still rent movies, which was a pretty cool gimmick. So you get drunk and go like, oh, watch this. And then you give them the $5 and whatever. And then no one returns anything. I mean, it was pretty concerned. I don't know. I don't know.

Really? I mean, you're asking a good question. It feels like, no, it just sunk cause constantly. But I think it was pretty good. I think people would sober up and go, oh, I have to watch this. And then, like, you know, get it done. But they did a weekly movie trivia night that was, like, really high level. And I liked trivia a little bit.

Yeah. I found myself accidentally at a bar trivia night last night. But I got kind of frustrated with it, like with the sloppiness of it. Yeah. And the vagueness of the questions. And this was really laser-focused. It was this woman, Maggie Ross, who was a, you know, UCB performer New York is out here now.

She was funny. She knew exactly to do it. The questions were really well crafted. And most of the people who would go to this were in the industry or critics or at the very least like current film school students. Everyone was like super high level. Once a week you'd see like a couple come in and being like, oh, this is like a fun first date. And after the first time they'd be like out of here, done. This is not fun. This is intense. Why would anyone know any of this? But David, a friend had connected us on Twitter and said, you guys should hang out.

You and David, yeah. Yeah, we didn't know each other. We hung out once. And then a couple months later, we were like, you want to do that again? We go hang out. A mutual friend of ours pilot texts us, text him, rather, and says, I'm at this trivia night. We're bombing.

Do you want to come and, like, be pinch hitter? Yeah. Yeah, why not? Second time we've ever hung out, we go to this thing. I had just gotten fired off of a network sitcom. David had just gotten out of a long relationship. And we both immediately were like, do you want to center our entire lives around this?

Is this going to be the whole thing for us? This is where we put all the energy. This is our essence. Right. So we did it for like a year and a half. And we're like very all consumed by it and became the top team there until the point where we were like, this is too much we need to move on.

And then we stopped hanging out and blank check came out of like, we need some new weekly structure to see each other. Let's just come up with an idea to do that. Someone like Marzonia, who listens to the show knows not only does this guy say stuff on the show that sounds like he has a trivia brand, but this entire show's existence

stems out of trivia night. Yeah. Well, people love the show. People love Blank Check. I'm telling you, like, there's so many people, even like Kaiser manager on the show. It's like, dude, you got to listen to this guy's show. Because getting to know you more, you can tell that not only are you a film buff,

like you've got a very fun personality, you're a good conversationalist and I think so like that's always you you want to feel no matter who you're listening to that you can that you feel if you put yourself in that room with that person you could just have a conversation with them they're not talking like down to you yes yes that's I mean as much as we you know I'm sure you do the same thing but when when you have these projects that stem out of like something I like doing for fun with my friend and then they become in any way popular it's you you have to semi-regular or sort of like step back, do a pulse check and go like, why is this working? Right. Right. This happens sort of organically.

What are people reacting positively to here so I don't mess it up and blow it? What are the things I should remain focused on and retain? And as much as we figured out what works with the show, it is that David and I feel very lucky that we found each other. Yeah. As much as that sounds like a romantic comedy thing. But it is true where it's like, oh, I found a friend

who sort of thinks about the same stuff that I do. Yeah. I have other friends who are moving. movie fans and there are other things I talk about, you know, with other people. But Dave and I have such a strong overlap in things that we find interesting, even that most movie buffs do not. And I think a lot of what has been successful about the show is people going, I never found that friend.

And now I once a week get to be part of this conversation. And it doesn't feel highfalutin. Yeah, it's inclusive. It's inclusive and it's casual and it's a hangout thing. Yeah. Yeah, you can tell. I mean, look, that's very, I relate to that very much because Mark Ellis and I, Right.

We met on the comedy scene. Right. Had no idea if we were going to, like, what we were, as far as making movies, starting a brand. Right. That was never, like, we never had an intent. It was very similar to what you're talking about. It was a matter of, he and I hanging out.

We got, our friend asked us to do, like, some point at one of those flip cams on each other and review TV shows. Right. We're like, hey, this is fun for us to do. Right. And then people start watching it, like the chemistry, like it. And you're like, okay, but I agree. A hundred percent relates to what you're saying.

You step back and you go, Because a lot of people say to me, why didn't you just keep the Shmows No Show? It was working. It's got to work for you too, and you've got to feel the right way when you're doing it. I mean, our thing was when we started, it was just sort of like, we should do a podcast. The way I think a lot of people go like, I don't know, we should do a podcast, right? And our idea was, what if we do a show that's only about the Phantom Menace? The Phantom Manus is the only thing we ever talk about.

But we talk about it through a prism of that was a failed franchise. Right. Because Lucas always says, no, you should watch them in this order, right? which I always thought was bunk, but I always also had the question, if you were to watch Phantom Menace in a bubble without the baggage of the Star Wars movies that are better, does that movie then improve?

If you're not having to constantly, because when people criticize Phantom Menace, and the same thing now happens with the Disney movies, it's constantly, well, this is what they do wrong that the originals did right. Right. And it's like, is there any way to just silo this movie and view it as its own thing,

which I thought was funny, and I also thought it was funny to sort of treat it like it was Jupiter, ascending. And it was like, well, clearly they had all these attention and they never got to do any of the other stuff. They just never got around to it. So we thought that was funny. Pitch it to my friend who was working at a podcast network for the time. He ran up to his boss and was like, I don't know. Why not? We were like, we could do this show indefinitely. And they were like, you're going to run dry for 10 episodes. And we're like, okay, you're going to be crow. We do 10 episodes. We had run so dry.

But it was fun. Like the chemistry was fun. So we want, what if we discover attack of the clones? What if it's one by one, we're unearthingness. And we're, and we're unearthing this. And we're, and we're we're discovering these movies in the wrong order. And we did that for like a year and got through all of the Star Wars movies. And that was 2015, that year ends with Force Awakens coming out. It felt like it was a nice sort of full circle thing. And we went, what do we do now? Like what is the show?

Right. It wasn't huge, but we had noticed that it had extended beyond people we knew personally. And those people were really in on it. So it feels like we have something, the chemistry here, what we talk about, how we talk about it, how deep we go into all of this. And the show, by the way, at that point, had, like, no proper name. It was called The Phantom Podcast, and then after 10 weeks, we went, never mind, it's called Attack of the Pod.

Like, it was just, like, this floating thing. But that also worked for the kind of absurdity of the show. For the joke. Right. For the joke. But there, like, wasn't a consistent branding outside of just Griffin and David, right? Right. Right. And so, like, a year in, we just go, I remember it was ironically, Mad Max Fury Road, which ends up being, like,

the perfect encapsulation of what a Blank Check movie is in the positive. Right? Yeah. And I was having some allergic reaction to something, and I show up late to a screening where David had given me his plus one to go see that early and we're aimed for it. And I'm like all out in hives, but I had had the breakthrough. And I went like, I know what it is.

The more we've been doing this show, the more we're just really fascinated by George Lucas and what this guy is trying to do. Like what his strategy was and how success affected him and the arcs of it and how you respond to criticism or wild success. Does the freedom help or hurt? All that stuff. And I was like, that's the thing. We just pick directors and it's that.

We look at other people the way we look at Lucas because as much as we thought we were looking at the Star Wars mythology, it really became about him. So then, yeah, a year in, we changed the name of the thing, we changed the format, we changed everything. And, you know, like 200 people were irate. Oh, right, right. How dare you?

It's Shmoh's no, that's not what this is. You know? And you go like, there's a natural evolution point now. I don't think there's a single person who goes like, I miss Griffin and David presents, you know? There are people who go, the Star Wars stuff was my favorite, but it also, we had wrung that completely dry. Sure.

And it was only through the process of doing essentially a different show for a year that we figured out what the other thing is. And when people ask me for advice on starting things, B-Day, like, live streams or podcasts or whatever, that's always the advice I tell them is like, you need to be very willing to throw everything away, either because it's not working or because something else is working more,

and it's not a failure to, like, rip it up and rebuild it because you sort of have to be light on your feet in that kind of way. 100%. And I just went through that. I mean, I had just went to Schmowdown. That channel had everything on it, and it was the old Schmo's channel. So it was a matter of, do I move all the Schmo down off of that channel

and then try to build, because that is a harder kind of niche thing to do for people? Yes, yes. Or do I leave it there, try to get new viewers in there, and then take a new show and put it on a new channel and show people, hey, that thing that you used to like, I'm still doing that, but I'm doing it over here. But you've got to be willing, because tons of people are like,

oh, you're separating is too confusing, never going to work. Oh, too, moving it over Twitch, oh, bad, oops, bad decision. And it's like you have to trust in yourself. You've got to trust in your gut. And you've got to trust on who you're working with and who you're talking to. Yes, that's huge. And I think also, I mean, I will say,

I think I see some people occasionally fall into the trap of doing it too much, too far, separating things too much, changing them too much. Like, you need to pick your moments. But the thing, David and then Ben Hosley, our producer, like the three of us love podcasts. Yeah. Aside from just we love movies talking about this stuff,

we really love podcasting as a medium and we're fans of it for a really long time before we were doing a show, like early adopters. Yeah. So when we step back, aside from going, what seems to be connecting with people, what do we need to make sure we don't lose sight of? The other thing we do is,

what are the podcasts we're listening to, and what do we like in those shows? and what turns us off. Right. You know? You need to also step back and, like, be able to view it as an audience member and go, like, that's smart what they're doing. Yeah.

And that's getting me deeper in versus this is starting to push me away. It's also why, though, because you're in the business, obviously, too, being a successful actor and being, and your brain does think that way, too, because not everybody, there are, I have a lot of friends that are just acting as their thing. That's what they do. That's what they focus on. Sure. Sure.

You seem to have a lot more interest outside of that. producing writing? Yeah, I mean, you know, a lot of this stuff did not happen strategically. Yeah. Yeah. Fell into it. A little bit. Yeah.

I mean, excuse me, not to go too far down the rabbit hole, but I thought I was going to just be a writer and director and not perform at all. Yeah. Why not go down the rabbit hole? That's over here. Yeah. That's what I thought I was going to do. I was like a very performancey kid.

Yeah. Would you grow up? I grew up in New York City. You did. In Manhattan. In Manhattan. Wow. Okay. The Big Apple.

Yeah. And I, like, desperately wanted to be, like, a stage kid, like a show-biz kid. And my parents did not want to. I was just, like, innate immediate. Yeah. What did you see when you were growing up that made you say, oh, shit, I want to do that? I don't know. Like, I try to go back to it, but it really is, like, because I feel people have that activation

moment story. And there's certainly things I can point to where it intensified or where I got more focused on it or I had a conception of how it was done or what I could do, but I also don't remember a single point in my life where that wasn't my impulse to do something. Like I was the kid who would ask other kids' parents if I could perform at their birthday parties. Sure. You know, I'd be like, well, you hired a magician. I can do the magic tricks. At how old? Like, fine, you know, and I was not good at magic. Right. You know, but I... And your head, you were the, you're a copperfield. Absolutely. But, you know, I had my like crappy rinkie.

kit or whatever, you know, or I want to do puppet shows or whatever it is. You know, I'd like beg teachers to let me, like, put on a play during lunch or whatever. It was just like, anytime I saw anyone performing, I got jealous and I wanted to find the opportunities to do that. But it was always through that prism of, like, wanting to be the guy, you know, doing the thing in front of people. I mean, like, yeah, and just it was immediately the thing that I was all consumed by. And then when I got to high school, and the hormones hit, and I was very moody, and I wanted to be taken seriously.

I did not want to be a funny guy. Really? Yeah. I can't see that. It was, I mean. How long did that last? Well, here's the thing. I think throughout high school, I was fighting the fact that people viewed me as being funny.

Where it was like, I want to make people laugh, and then I'm immediately hating the fact that I'm being pigeonholed into that. Do you still feel that way sometimes? I don't. Okay. I don't at all. I feel it zero percent now. I couldn't feel it less. Yeah.

Because I feel like most comedy people I know still have a little bit of like, I love to show them what I can do. And there's like, there's other stuff I'd like to do, but there is no part of me that cares about being seen as serious. Yeah, you've embraced it and you know it's a strength. But so what, as it happens to all of us in high school, a lot of insecurities in there too. It was all insecurity.

I think so much of it truly was I wanted girls to think I was attractive. I think that was so much of it. Not realizing that funny is a big weapon of attracting. I mean, I didn't, I wasn't the right type of funny in high school to attract high school girls. Like ripping farts off the side of a couch or something? No, I think I was just kind of like Kramer. I was just like so bizarre. Okay.

You know? Yeah. I think a lot of people didn't like view me as a person with interiority. Right, right. But it was all, it all, I mean, it came out of discomfort. Okay. Right. Where it was like, I think in my early team,

years there was this. I'm weird. Uh, I don't want people to judge me. Okay. I would rather be weirder. So I am in control of what they think of me. Sure. You know, so I was like doing very dumb pranks in school. Okay. And doing dumb bits, you know? Pranks on your friends or pranks on non-friends or? It was like I would use like my classroom as like a performance space and like, I understand that. Like, like here's like a dumb completely like abstract. Yeah. To what end thing I remember doing. I was obsessed with Mando. Yeah.

Which was the, yeah, like the sugar water that comes in the plastic bottle where the bottle cap has to be ripped off of it. It's one solid, like, wax bottle piece. And it was, like, very cheap at the right aid near my school. And so I bought it and I just stocked at my locker. My locker was just Mando. I didn't keep any books in there, right? It was like, I want to be the Mando guy. Like, I want to have something, right?

It was so desperately I want to have any. Hey, it's the Mando guy. Reputation. I mean, it was like, no, I was a freshman at a new school. It's like two weeks in. I'm like, what if I'm the Mando guy? Yeah. That gives me a hook.

You got a bit. You had a bit or a gimmick. I want a gimmick, right? And then I remember one day, people go, hey, throw me a Mando. And I, you know, I hit the thing open. I throw him a Mando or whatever. It was just like, I have something. Right.

I desperately need something. And history class, I gave everyone a Mando and told them they had to open it at the exact same time and chug it. To no end. My parents are like, why is there a bank account missing four? grand. Right. Right. But like that was the, I just thought it was funny if in unison, every member of a class takes this thing out from under a desk, opens it, chugs it, slams it down, doesn't acknowledge it. And it was like that was the kind of stuff I was doing or like making like applause signs in class behind the teacher's head or whatever. But it's like, you weren't,

you weren't a, you weren't a dick to people. I wasn't a dick. I was incredibly bad academically. Yeah. So I was like constantly in, in danger of getting. getting kicked out or held back or anything. And then on top of that, like, I'm doing these silly shenanigans and teachers had varying levels of tolerance for it, understandably. I look back at it now and I'm like, if I was a teacher, I would have been losing my goddamn mind. I relate.

But at some point that shifts to, now I've built up too much a reputation for just being, like, lunatic, random guy. I want everyone to take me very seriously. I'm very moody now. My heart's been broken. Right. My heart's been broken by someone I'm. never dated. And now I'm deep in my

feels and listening to sad music and I want everyone to take me seriously. So at that point it was just like, I'm just writing, I'm directing, I never want to perform ever again. Performing is like lightweight and it's silly. Even like, you know, straight acting, dramatic acting, I was just like, that's not, I'm an otore. And I went to film school out here. I went to

Cal Arts in Valencia. And I had this very set idea of like, and I'm never going to be funny ever again. Like. He's just going to shut it off. Right. Not only, do I not want to make explicitly comedic movies, but I also don't want to be a guy who makes jokes. At all. Anywhere. You're just going to be super serious.

Why don't you be a doctor then? Right. I was like nothing above a casual sense of humor. Right. You know, I don't want there to be any more design on comedy. And I got there and immediately it like, it broke. Yeah. You know, it was like, I mean, whenever people try to suppress some innate side of their, their existence, their personality, it like comes out even bigger.

I was very miserable being there. And I liked writing and filmmaking and everything, but I also just found myself being more and more drawn to the performers at the school. Yeah. And being like, I like this. Why did I stop doing this? Yeah. You know?

So I'd gotten lucky, and I had, like, met an agent who had, at one point years earlier put me up for something because they were looking for kids. It was a movie that David O. Russell never ended up making with Vince Vaughn, and they were, like, searching for kids. and I, like, met this guy, and then he put me up for it, and they maybe put me up for one other thing. But I'm in college, and I'm miserable, and I email this guy cold, and I'm like, I don't know if you remember me, but I'm, like, here, I'm in L.A. I think I want to act again.

I don't know if you guys want to put me up for anything. And his, he says his assistant, like, find something for him. They put me up for something. I go and I read, I work really hard. I lock myself in, like, the communal bathroom in the dorms. I skip all my classes the next day. Wow. you know, and a pre-ride share call, like, a town car to take me from Valencia to...

To where? To where? Farther enough away. Yeah. Yeah. To go to this audition. And they were like, huh, that was good. Who are you?

You have no thing? What are you? And I was like, I'm just trying to act. And then they emailed me back and they were like, you had really good... So what? Like, the assistant was like, so what's your deal? And I was like, I don't know. I met him and I didn't think I wanted to do it.

And now I think I do. Like, the next day the writer strike starts. This is 2000. 2008. Yes. Or 2007, right? Yes, correct. Yes.

Yes. That one I know very well. Yes, 2007. So I drop out beginning of 2008. I try going back the next semester and I was just like, I'm done. Yeah. Right. The bug came back.

I moved back to New York. This assistant's in New York. But when I came back for the holidays, I got, I met up with the assistant at a diner. And I was like, I really think I want to drop out and take this really seriously and start, like seriously doing comedy and acting. Okay. And I would take this as seriously as you would take me. And he was like, I'm an assistant, but I'm very driven,

and I want to, like, make my bones. And it would be beneficial to me to, like, have a hip-pocketed client that I can figure out how to develop someone. So we sort of, like, guinea-pigged each other. And I dropped out and just started auditioning for everything and doing open mics and having sketch groups with friends and all that sort of stuff. He's still my agent to this day. That's crazy.

Yeah. I was going to ask. But you had mentioned earlier that your parents weren't into the theater. stuff in general, right? Yeah. You're doing that. So then what is their reaction when you say, hey, I'm dropping out of school

and I'm just going after acting in comedy? Yeah. Well, so my mother was a, I say this with judgment, but I think she would admit as such a not entirely successful actor. Okay. She had a real run at that, and I think it just hit a real point of frustration,

and then, you know, had me and I ruined everything. She doesn't feel that way, does she? No. I mean, I was just the first thing, she had two kids after that. She clearly, you know, she tripled down on it, but I was the first one that sort of put the acting career on ice. But so she comes from that. And her mother, by the way, was an unsuccessful actress. Okay.

And then her biological father. So you're in a long line of unsusciful actress as an actress. So, but as much as we're kind of bringing this up, though, does that play inside of your head? Absolutely. That's why I'm bringing all this up. And then, right, my biological grandfather. was a novelist who tried very hard to become a Hollywood screenwriter, couldn't really connect. Right.

And then my grandmother remarried, the man who mostly raised my mother, was like a French character actor who, like, worked, but had a reasonable, was not rich, you know, was in some big movies and small parts, had larger parts and tiny movies. It was never a very famous known quantity, right, and lived a modest actor. Right. And then my father desperately wanted to be a sportscaster. that was like all he wanted to do and he tried it and like felt like he failed like he had his like Albert Brooks you finally get the audition and the sign collapses

and you're flop sweating and you realize you don't play on camera and it didn't really know what to do and was like very much kind of like you know young entrepreneur looking for quick money sort of stuff and he there was a regular bar he went to that was owned by like an old boxing corner man and one of the other guys who went there was this guy who was a game show producer

and he told my dad like showtime just started this new channel they want to differentiate themselves from HBO by filming plays if you can get the contracts for a play to be filmed will give you the finders fee so my dad started he had a briefcase that was empty other than

Pepto-Bismol because incontinence runs in my family and he would literally slip in through backstage doors and pretend to be some official of any status to try to get people to sign over the right so that he could get him over and make the thing. And the one he was successful with was Robert Altman's first, and I believe only play he ever did on Broadway, come back to the Five and Dine Jimmy Dean. That's got a Biff Lohman thing going on there. Yes, absolutely. But that movie was Cher and Karen Black and Sandy Dennis. It was like big movie stars on Broadway with this big director post-Popi. So he was like at his lowest point.

And my dad breaks in and is like, well, I sell it to showtime. And Robert Altman's like, who the fuck are you get out of here? Am I allowed to curse? Yeah, yeah. Who the fuck are you get out of here? You're a kid. This could be the biggest show on history. It's going to run for 20 years.

Get out of here. And then the show opens. It gets the worst reviews. It's going to close within two nights. My dad goes back and again and is like, hey, offer still stands. And he's like, didn't you read the reviews? And he's like, we could sell this. And Altman was like, I'll use this kid.

I'll get in the door at Showtime. I'll get them to double our budget. We'll move the set. From the show onto a soundstage, I'll rejigger the whole thing as a movie. Yeah. And my dad ends up getting grandfather in as like associate producer to that and accidentally becomes a producer and was an independent film producer for like 20, 30, 30 some odd years. And that was his way in. Yes.

Wow. That's a cool story. Kind of hated it. Did he? That's the other thing. It's like, so there's the side of my family that all wanted to do it and had this very realistic, pragmatic sense of like, it's very hard and it doesn't really work out. Right. And then my father, that was not his passion.

He sort of fell into it by accident. and it kind of drove him crazy. Because it's a tough industry, and you need to love it. You either have to love it or you kind of just have to be a power, money, fame, hungry monster. Which you still have to love that too, though. You have to love that. You have love one of the two. Right, and he was a pretty modest guy who I think his ultimate goal was,

I would love to find my filmmakers who I could help and protect and do this. And he had people he worked with a couple times, but then maybe they'd go off and do the bigger movie without him or their career wouldn't really pan out or whatever it was. And he did it for like 30 some odd years. And then one of his friends who he had worked with early in his career had been made the dean of the film program at Tish and called him to be a guest speaker.

And I went to watch my dad do this. And I was like, this is the happiest I've ever seen him in my entire life. And he was like, I'm done. I'm just teaching full time. Yeah. And he's been teaching for the last 20 years now. And it's like infinitely happier. And it's sort of like I can use all of my failed experiences.

You know, everything I did wrong to help these people. And he's very hands-on and like really, invested in them. Parents still together? Yeah. Tricky question. Tricky question. Tricky question.

Okay. But yeah, you know, there's that aspect of it too where it's like, here's a side of of the family that really wanted to be in and couldn't find their way in. And then here's a guy who got his way in and couldn't wait to get out. And so their disapproval of it was a lot of like... It was like protection more so. Exactly. As opposed to I think a lot of parents who don't want their kids going into this, it's because

it's like, what is this? This isn't real. Get a real job. They've been there. before it bit them or they were, or it had success and didn't like it. So they were saying, listen, trust us. We've been there before. Stay away from it.

But that's still in the same neighborhood, though, because it's like you've got to figure it out yourself. Absolutely. And it was, you know, they didn't want me to go to art school. They wanted me to go to a place where I could get a more well-rounded education. But my grades were terrible. Yeah. My real was good.

I only got into art schools. Right. I went to the most bubbly kind of conservatory school, which they weren't happy with in the first place and then when six months later I called them and go I'm dropping out they're less happy about that you know like I was sort of doing everything wrong in their eyes because they wanted everything kind of buttressed with some security plan or backup and I think the acting thing felt even more frivolous to them than the writing directing thing where at least there was more of an ability to self-start there yeah you're and you said you have so you have a brother and a sister correct

yeah oldest three and so are they are they into this at all my I mean they like it my brother works in sports and my sister works in food. Okay. So, so, so you're really the first one to go out there. And, and from everything you just told me, succeed. Like, really succeed. Not, not including your dad from what your dad did producing, but inside of acting and, yes. Yeah, yeah, you know, within, relative terms. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, just the fact that I, I've been able to work and, and do things, you know, it's only with distance, because I just went into it with such singular tunnel vision of, like, you know, a lot of it was also very pragmatic. for me where I was like, I don't want to be in school.

I hate being here. I want to be working. No one is specifically looking to hire a 19-year-old screenwriter. But I am 19 and I look young. I can work 15 at adult hours. So I kind of knew, like, there was an entrance for me into, there are a lot of parts I can audition for

right away. Yeah. Even though I didn't go to Juilliard, even though I don't have credits, you know? I just have this window. can exploit. Yeah. And an agent who's very willing, I mean, he was an assistant at this time, very willing to put me up for everything. And his whole thing he said to me, which was incredible advice, was just, I'm going to

put you up for everything. I'm going to put you in front of every casting director in New York City. And you just have to work as hard as you did for that first audition we brought you in for in L.A. Because even if you're wrong for it, just impress them so you're in their mind and they bring you back for the stuff you are right for. Sure. Yeah.

So I just was like auditioning nonstop. That's pretty great. especially when you're when you're starting out there and you're and you're you need that confidence to get there because you're very good in a room obviously you're good talking with people and I was one of the things when I got out here like standup was my thing right and I would go out on auditions I fucking hate it. Standup I came to later sort of yeah. See I see standup was the thing that that was mine. But like I hated auditioning. I just never fit into it. It's like as you know from doing stand up, for me what I love about stand up is that's that you call the shots.

You cast what is said. No one can tell you. You bomb, that's on you. Right. You do great. It's on you. Yeah. In that room, it's, there's a lot of different things going on in that casting room.

It's a lot of different things in time. There are a lot of weird variables. I got strangely good at it. I mean, it's a funny thing where, like, I feel like for a long time, I was particularly good at auditioning. Yeah. And then when I would get jobs, I would flounder a little bit. Because it was such a different thing.

I had sort of as a survival mechanism learned how to get very good at popping in that room and connecting people and doing what would, you know, make a splash there. That's very different from actually acting. You know, from having to work with another person and react off of them and be in the moment and be flexible and also contend with, you know, acting on camera is like 30% about acting as an art form

and 70% about problem solving how you do your art around all these technical problems. Because I think the thing people don't understand, and I think it's very stupid, but most acting schools and classes and programs do not really prep people for this. And even when there are acting for camera classes, they tend to just feel your light, know your angle stuff. But the thing they don't prep you for, which you have to learn on the job,

and if you're a person who gets really good at auditioning, It's maybe because you've practiced a thing 800 times in a mirror and you have this one fixed, perfect thing you can do. And the reader is not giving you much, so you're just going off of yourself and whatever. But then you get there and you practice it and you run it the way you want to. And they go, actually now because of this, this is that.

So you need to be sitting there and also can you yell all of your lines rather than whisper them because we have this background noise or whatever it is. And I would like kind of crumble a little bit, you know? Because you prepped one particular thing and then it just has to switch it on the fly. Right. Right.

Right. So as I got better at understanding the process of how to actually do the job, I feel like I've gotten worse at auditioning because they are almost such counter things. Two different skills. Yeah. Yeah. Well, so what's the first gig, though, that you, so now that you've had this, now that you have the agent and now that he's sending you in on everything.

Yeah. What's the first job? The first job I did was, the first real thing was a pilot for Showtime that Tim Rock. Robbins directed. Okay. And it was a big, very the lead. Big, a big,

it was a big ass deal. It was a small part in it, but it was a small part that would recur. Your first job in your, and Tim Robbins is directing it. Huge. And it was like Josh Lucas and Ellen Burst and Tim Blake Nelson. That's huge.

Crazy stacked cast. Yeah. That's not like a cat food commercial. No, no, it was, it was big. You know,

and I was doing student films and college humor videos and, you know, like, all the things that pay you negative money. you know, where you have to do your own makeup and whatever. But that was like my first real legitimate job I'd gotten from auditioning. And yeah, and I was just like, well, I'm set. Right. What are you talking about?

Show, Tim Robbins? Right. I got it. I'm the stoner kid. Like, great. I'm in it, you know? And then the show didn't get picked up. Yeah.

And I couldn't get arrested for a while. And it was that thing of like, you know, I go through like a year of auditioning. I get that part and I go like, oh, finally. Yeah. And I remember my mom saying to me, like, don't say finally. Right. People work a lot longer and a lot harder than you have to get their first job. You should not feel entitled to getting this after a year.

You're moving faster than most people. It's funny. You mentioned your mom beforehand, too. Yeah. As you were saying, you know, that even she would say that it just didn't work out for her. But she almost sounds like your Yoda. A little bit. A little bit.

A little bit. Yeah. A little bit. Yeah. Not always, but I mean, certain very key moments like that. And, yeah, and so then, you know, I thought like, well, now I'm in it. Right. And it took a while for anything else to happen.

You know, for a while there, the jobs were very spread out. I did a teen movie. Okay. With Ezra Miller and Zoe Kravitz. Oh, wow. And this was like, well, they're the next two big stars. Jesse McCartney was the bully in it. Yeah.

And I was like the bugger, right? Okay. Right, it was like, Ezra was the lead. Zoe was the love interest. Jesse McCartney was the villain. And I was, it was called, But where the gun? And I was the, the, the, duckie, the, I think my character's name was Horny Rob, right? I was like, the wacky best friend.

And everyone was like, well, this is just going to explode. Like, this is, you know, look at, there are obviously movie stars, you know, it was like, they're clearly going to be superheroes inevitably. Yeah, right, right. You know, we have this current pop star in this thing. There were so many actors in the supporting cast of that movie who have also become big deals in different ways. Like, Colby Minfey, who's on The Boys Now, like, the cast of that was just incredible.

incredibly overqualified. But I was like the funny character in that. And it was like very shortly after Superbad and everyone was like, this is it. Slamp dunk. Right. And then it's just like, you know,

it plays at Tribeca and it gets released straight to DVD and it doesn't make any mark. And it's like then it's another year before, you know, you do a guest spot on this thing, you do that, whatever. You have so that there's that showtime. Yeah.

Got it. Boom. Doesn't go. Right. Then you have to wait. You finally get this thing. Right. It's going to be massive.

Straight to DVD. Right. Nothing. Does the confidence waiver at this point and you go, okay, maybe this is a bad decision? Absolutely. No, absolutely. I mean, there was a bit of sunk cost fallacy. What, so I say it again?

Some cost fallacy, I think, you know, and stubbornness and not wanting to give it up, but I'm terrified. I do not feel confident about this. Right. You know, there is a point of just like, I feel like I know how it could happen and what I could do. But I'm really questioning whether or not it's going to go there, you know? And it's like working like day jobs in retail, quitting whenever I get a job and going like, I'm set and then I don't work for nine months. Right.

And I'm stretching out that one paycheck as far as I can or whatever it is. And you're living in the city? Living in the city. Right. I got very good at living very thrifty. Right. Still, it's, that hurts your confidence too, though. Totally.

Yeah. Totally. You know, I think it would have been harder for me out here just because it, it, there is a perspective you can get in New York because it is an industry town because it's so many different industries that, like, no one really gives a show. about you. Right. You know, whereas...

You live there, and it's also comfortability. There's the comfort and all of that. But, like, you know, when I'm out here, anytime I would, like, come out here to do general meetings and auditions or whatever, and I'm, like, doing, like, LyftShare. You know, everyone wants to compare notes

on which things they've gone up for. And I liked that in New York, like, I had a couple actor friends, but most of my friends were outside of that, and it was just like, this is my job, and my entire life is not centered around it, despite the fact that I'm very obsessive about it. Sure.

And then I'd say, like, my, the point where things started happening for me weirdly was, you know, I was doing odds and ends and stuff. Nothing really hit or got seen or whatever. I would get close to a lot of big stuff. That was the thing that kind of gave me the encouragement to keep going is that I would get very far along. Yeah. I would be meeting with directors and then they'd go, they really like you just not write for this, you know? And I would go like, well, enough prestigious people have. have said that to me.

Yeah. I shouldn't give up on this. Right. It's making me feel like I was close to getting in Scott Pilgrim. Okay. As young Neil. Okay. The Johnny Simmons role.

And then like, I'm trying to think of other ones I was closer. But that was like a big one for me where I was like, you know. And you've got to be a massive Edgar Wright fan. Yeah, you seem like a, I love Edgar Wright myself. Huge fan of those books and everything.

I was working at Forbidden Planet, which is a comp bookstore, is a comp store New York City at the time. And, uh, I just like, I was, in the mix and it was down to like me and two other guys for like months.

Right. And I just every day would like work and then go to my lunch break and turn my phone on and wait for the text that was you got the part so I could go up to them and go, I quit. I'm in an Edgar Wright movie. Right. You know, which is like the dream to go like at a comic store and go like, I'm in Scott Pilgrim. Yeah. You'll never see me again.

You know? Right. And instead I quit when I got the Tim Robbins show and then the show didn't go. And they were like, what happened to that guy? Yeah. Didn't he tell us he was going to be a TV star? Right. Right.

I did Just for Lafts Montreal. Oh, okay. I sort of started, I had a sketch group for a while, then that disbanded, I started focusing on stand-up. I did like a one-man show that was sort of like a charactery sketch thing. And some of the Montreal Scouts had come to see that.

And they were like, you should do stand-up. Or they said, rather, they said, do you do stand-up? And I said, yes, of course I do stand-up and started doing stand-up the next day. Right. Because they didn't really have a character zone at that point. You know, they would have sketch groups perform.

And for people don't know, JFL's like kind of the big comedy festival. For a long time was like the place that single-handedly made people. Now everything's become more spread out. The internet changed a lot of things. But it was also, but it was. It was funny that during like the 80s, 70s, 80s, it was all talk shows. It was Johnny Carson. Right.

And then, yes, the just for last, Montchall was massive. The pipeline for a while was, you know, they're sending scouts to clubs. Yeah. They're picking people who don't even have reps. Right. They're going and performing in front of industry in Montreal. And then they're now getting sitcom deals or late night appearances. And now it's like the people who get into Montreal tend to have already been on TV several times.

Yeah. You know, it's a far more sort of. Right. It's a lot more of a machinery. Yes. Yes. Yes. to get passed by them because I knew I was on their radar.

Sure. And then by the time I'd gotten good enough at stand-up, they were like, well, now we're doing characters as well. Do you want to audition for characters and doing solo sketch stuff? I was like, I haven't done that in four years because I threw everything away trying to do the stand-up stuff. Right.

But I went in and did that and got through. Yeah. And so I did Montreal, and that sort of gave me a little bit of juice. You know, I was in a year with, like, Rachel Bloom, and Lauren Lapkis and Sam Richardson and all these people who have blown up. Yeah.

I did not pop there, but it got me in front of some people who then gave me certain jobs. And it sharpens the tools. Sharpenes the tools. And then I got an email for an audition that was Paramount Pictures Untitled Brothers Project. Okay. And the sides that they send, it's like, oh, this is clearly some fake, you know, dummy title thing. The sides that they send are four brothers named Ralph Donald. Leonard and Michael fighting about why they led a woman into the sewers with them.

I was like, well, I know what this is. Right? And I'll tell the story as quickly as I can. But I was not a Ninja Turtles kid growing up. That wasn't my thing. And my mom was very protective and didn't let me watch most things. And there's a lot of stuff that I came back around to later. Like, you know, once I had a little bit of autonomy, I was all in on Marvel and Batman.

and He-Man and all these things. But, like, TNT, I just kind of fully missed, along with Power Rangers and a couple other big ones from my generation. So I had, like, almost no frame of reference outside of just osmosis what the turtles are. Sure. My brother was this big sports kid,

and he would always, like, he had so much energy. He was, like, the Tasmanian devil. He's a little guy like me. He's more built than I am, but, like, he's short. He's a short Jew, right? And he was just a really prodigious athlete, despite not having the body for it. Sure.

And he had so much energy as a kid. He always wanted to like, if my friends had parents over for dinner, he'd want them to like play basketball with him in his bedroom with his little hoop on the door. He just was so competitive. And so when there was downtime, he would like mind playing sports with other people. Like as a little kid, he would like be shadow boxing or like playing defense against someone who wasn't there. Like he was just constantly practicing as if someone was coming at him. Right?

Yeah. And in the sides for the Ninja Turtles thing, they were like, runt of the litter, he's got the complex, he wants to prove that he's tough. That was their take on this new Michael Angel. This was for the Michael Bay thing about 10 years ago, I guess now. And I was like, I don't know a lot, but the way they're describing this, at least in this version, sounds a lot like my brother. Yeah. I'm just going to play it like this. The sides are like a page.

It's like five lines of dialogue. My choice I made was he is just acting like he's fighting ninjas. whole time. Right. He's got this, let me at him, let me at him, just sort of like, he's trying to overcompensate for his lack of size. And I do that. I'm in New York. I know the main castings happening in LA. I'm meeting with a satellite person who's putting me on tape out of mind, right? Like, I almost didn't do it. I was like, why waste my time doing this? And then they call back the next day. My manager calls back and he was like, get ready, they're going to put you on a plan. They want you to play one of the terrible. That's awesome. I was like, what? So they fly me

out, I have like maybe 24 hours in between where I get my friends who are Ninja Turtles obsessive. And I'm like, crash course. Teach me everything. Right. We're watching first movie, the first two episodes of each of the series at that point. I'm reading the comics and everything. The more I'm getting into that, I'm like, what I just did in that edition does not compute with any of this other stuff. Right. Right. And I don't know what they're looking for, really. You need the energy. They haven't, well, they haven't let me read the script. It's all underlocking key. So I get out to L.A. and, um, You know, they put me in a room.

I sign all the NDAs with its, it was nine guys going up for eight roles. Is that right? Yes. It was two guys for each part and three guys from Michelangelo. But it's the four guys who ultimately got it. And then one alternate for each and then, yeah, sure. And I read the script and I'm just like, I don't know what I'm doing here. So I call up the casting director who I had not spoken to.

And I go like, I just like lay cards out in the. table. I didn't grow up with this. I don't really know this. I'm a big fan of other stuff. Now I've done this deep dive and I realize how incompatible what I did is with any previous version of the character. Can you tell me what the director responded to just so I know what I should be doubling down on? And she said he really liked your meth-y vibe. Your meth-y vibe? And I went, oh, like method, like the method actor and they went, no, that you seemed like you were on meth, but you were like doing like a Jesse Pinkman sort of like freak out thing.

That's great. And she went, by the way, don't tell anyone that you don't know this. Like, everything you just said to me, never repeat that ever again. Right. But just like, he liked, like, a lot of people are playing it safe. In retrospect, it now makes sense that you were the one person who wasn't beholden to doing an impression of the thing you grew up loving. Right.

Right. Which I've later now gotten to do that. But this was a case where I was going in pretty clean. And he was like, he just liked that you were doing something very different than everyone else and taking big swings and wherever. So I go in there. and we're doing like, they're just sending us in, it's hours and hours of like one,

one and a half page scene. Sure. And different permutations, different configurations of, let's see these four, who have the best chemistry, all of that. And the other guys are going like, man, crazy work, and that you really like, am I this good of an actor? And in retrospect, they're just like,

man, I can't believe this guy is sabotaging this, this hard. They're never going to hire him. This is way too weird. Yeah. Because I'm just going like weirder and weirder and weirder with it, it's back to your high school thing totally yeah and then the director is like

because he's like trying you know see different things and he goes uh Griffin I do you think you could play neurotic and I went look I spent 12 hours last night

in a hotel room trying to knock all the neuroses out of my system yeah if you open this bottle it's you're not getting the toothpaste back in the tube I did I said like I can do this but it's once we go there. It's not going to be able to pull back. And he was like, yes, you're bold. That's why I brought you out here. You're bold.

Let's do it. And so I do that and I start doing neurotic. And he's like, yes, more, more. So it elevates the point where I'm having panic attacks and retreating into my shell and all this stuff. And everyone's like, this is so cool. I walk out of there. I call my hands and call my parents. I'm like, I'm getting this. Everyone, I'm like Jack Sparrow. I'm doing this

outro performance in a blockbuster movie. I'm undeniable. And then like three days later they're calling. They're like, absolutely not. You know, the director was into it, the casting grudge was into it, and then they show it to the executives, and they're just like, what? Right. In what world?

He's the party dude. Like, he's the fun one. Right. We have to sell bath towels here. Like, you can't do something this odd. But getting that close for that part was the thing that actually got me momentum in the industry for the first time. It was that weird thing of just then everyone went, oh, this guy almost got a Ninja Turtle.

They don't know what? happened in the tape or why I was turned down. But it's like, here's an unknown guy and he almost got this big part. So then I started for the first time I had like a pilot season where I tested for multiple things and then I got one and then that didn't go and it got retooled. But it sort of just led to other things and other things. I did draft A, the movie. That came out of like this run where I just sort of underrated movie. I'm a fan. Me too. I like it a lot. I don't know anything about sports. So I think I'm more willing to forgive. You know, sports part of it is is really good.

But that's why I actually like it because for someone who's not at the sports, it doesn't rely on you having to know everything that's going on. No. No, it's a bit more of a fantasy. It is. We have a lot more to talk about. Yes. We have Masters of the Universe.

We have the Tick. We have more to talk about. But I also wanted to let you guys know if you didn't. And I've been talking about it. I've been raving about it. And I don't know if Griffin knows about it, but he should. And Cuts. Cuts is, it's such a great brand.

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they go, everybody in the room loving what you're doing. Not going to have them. Right, but what it does is open doors? So what is, so does that ultimately get you down the path of the tick? Yeah, I mean, it's a long circuitous path, which is I get a job working for MTV as a correspondent on a show they were doing called Nikki and Sarah Live, which was them sort of trying to do a like pop culture daily show. Sure.

Which I thought the show was very funny and MTV kind of mucked it up the more as it went along. But I became their in-house correspondent. So I was... Many careers have been built off that. Yes. And I enjoyed it. I had a lot of creative authorship in those segments. Sure.

We did two scripted in-studio segments and I did two remote pieces. I found both processes very fun. Yep. The in-studio stuff was actually live. And then the remote stuff was fun because you just get to throw stuff at the wall and, you know, whatever. enjoyed doing that. Then I test for a couple pilots in a row. Didn't get.

It's that thing where it's like, but then the momentum's building. This stupid thing in the industry that like not getting jobs can get you further than getting jobs. Right. Yeah. Because it makes people go like,

oh, why were they interested in this guy? Let's like take a look at him. Yeah. Right? Can we pick him up on the rebound or whatever? And then I get the pilot I end up getting is John Mullaney's sitcom for NBC. Okay.

Which was like this big, big deal thing at the time. I'm the only non-famous person in the cast. And that show kind of implodes for a number of reasons. A lot of, I think, really stupid meddling. Yeah. I think the pilot we made was good. Network meddling? Yes.

I think the pilot we made was good. I think the script he wrote is, for my money, still the funniest pilot I've read. It's like incredible. And then it ended up being maybe 50% of that. And then it was caught up in a weird transitional period at NBC. and it, they just sort of shrugged it off. Sure.

And I had other stuff. Like I had gotten draft day off of that momentum. I was sort of like moving forward, but that distracted me from the burn of that falling apart, which was really like, oh, this is like a dream job. You know, like I was on the live studio audience sitcom set, sitting on a couch with like some of the funniest people, you know, Malaney, but like Martin Short,

Ellie Gould is one of my acting idols. And I was like, this is the dream. I would love to do this for 10 years. Yes. Right? Like, this is all I want to do. And then when that falls apart, I'm too distracted with other jobs.

And then when the work, that momentum, that run starts to dry up, Fox picks up Malaney and turn around and retools it, and I'm dropped. Everyone else is still on. And they just cut you? Yeah. Okay.

It was like a specific Fox note. that they got to get rid of Griffin, I don't know how much it was focused on Do you know why? Yeah, I don't want to say. That's fine, that's fine. Because of... Why get yourself in trouble?

It's not even that. It's the other people. Okay. You know? So maybe if I can... I can't say why they fired me without insulting other people. You don't have to.

I'll just, I'll theorize. I'll theorize that somebody on side of the set maybe wasn't viving with you and then they complained. No, it wasn't that. It was a thing where I think the head of Fox at that point in time said, this character should not be this, it should

be this. Okay. Right? We don't want the neurotic Ninja Turtle. Yes. Just fundamentally, this is not funny. And it didn't even sound like it was focused at that guy's not funny. It was like, I don't want this type of character existing in this thing. Which in a way was more of a rejection

because I read this and I go, this is the character I've always wanted to play my entire life. Right. Then I get it on a show that's like a dream. And the network is like, this character shouldn't exist on television. Right. So it wasn't just a rejection. Oh, now I want to know about the character. Simon Rich, who's like an incredible comedy writer,

Miracle Workers and a man-seeking woman. Sure. A bunch of other things. He's written several books. It was based on him. Okay. It was just, I mean, in that original iteration of the show, the character both sort of functioned as Kostanzas.

and Kramer. Okay. And was incredibly weird. He was a little bit like how I behaved in high school. Hence, why you wanted to play him so bad. The description was, which I just thought was incredible.

Right. And when I read this, just in the breakdown, I was like, if I don't get this, I'm going to lose my mind. Yeah. It was a,

what was it? It was a broken child prodigy, a broken prodigy in the body of a dust pole child. Okay. Okay. Right. And the idea for the character was that he was like a child genius. Yeah.

who graduated early, went to college when he was like 14, got assigned roommates with Malini and Nassim Padraud's character, and they like broke him. Like once he got to college, he had never socialized. He had just been this child prodigy.

And then he gets there and he discovers beer and he's never amounted to anything in his life. He plays online poker. He tells people he's a cartoonist, but he's never been published. He's always got these get rich quick schemes. Perfect few of this role. Right, but he still acts like he's a special kid.

Yeah. He hasn't gotten out of that even in his late 20s, right? or mid-20s, whatever it was. So I, like, love this. I said, it was so funny, so much fun to do. And then the network being like, no part of this should exist. Yeah.

And every other character got retooled, but retooled in a way that the same actors could still play it. Sure. And my character got retooled, and then the whole thing got rejiggered in a way where they were like, they fundamentally just don't want your type in this.

Oh. That's the Fox note, right? Yeah. So now work is dried up again. Right. And I'm, like, really now feeling the long-tail burn of that. And living with the fear of, is this going to become friends?

Am I going to be the guy who got dropped from friends? Right. Is that going to haunt me for the rest of my life? Missing Beetle. Because especially in the New York comedy scene, I'm going back to doing bar shows, right? Yeah. And people are going, oh, my God, you're the guy in the Mullini thing, right? Isn't that huge?

And I go, like, they fired me like nine months ago. I'm back to doing unpaid bar shows for two people in a basement, you know? I get a part on vinyl, the HBO, Spousey Show, which is a show, which is. like a huge thing, but it's a tiny part. And it's a tiny part in a pilot where I get to be directed by Scorsese, best experience in the world. Bobby Carnivali, right? Yes.

I mean crazy, Ray Romano, Olivia Wild, Wilde, Wild Nuts cast. So, like, fun to be part of that circus. It's a tiny role, and they're like, if the show gets picked up, they'll turn into something. It's like the office, you're Stanley. We'll figure out. We need four more people in the office. I had auditioned for a part that my friend Jack Quaid got

and deservedly got was like the right guy for. it and they brought in people they had seen for other roles and we're like we don't have anything for you but we can offer you this and they'll figure out something right for you to do right and so I did the pilot that was a great experience and then that's happening while malaney's being reshot and retooled and I'm living in the shadow of the fear of that or whatever sure and then when it goes to season it just never really turns into anything I'm essentially a very well-paid featured extra on an incredible overqualified set. Where it's like, this is educational, but I'm not really acting anymore.

And a couple years ago, I had heat, and I don't anymore. And this was the time I came closest to being like, maybe I should like hang it up. Right. And my thought was, I'll just go all in on stand-up. I don't really need to do this anymore. It feels like I had my moment, maybe I blew it, you know? If you, so wait, so if you, when you said your stand-up, were you, You were ever, because you were talking about how you went to the rooms and you were,

did you ever feel like maybe you just pursue stand of us? At that moment, yes. But that was it. At that moment. Quitting acting because of, if the small anything isn't working out, then. Yeah,

I just felt so frustrated by all of it and it felt like, should I be reading the tea leaves, you know? Yeah. It felt like, did I get called up to the majors and they told me, actually you don't have what it takes? Right.

You know? Right. And I sort of went like, if I, because at that time, sorry, because at that time, that thought where you say maybe it's just the character alone,

You do feel like it's me. Of course. Of course. Of course. And now I'm on this big HBO show, getting to spend nice time on set and maybe every other episode have one line. I mostly sit in the background. I smoke a cigarette. Right.

And it's like, this is fun as an experience. But maybe I need to like sort of holster my acting ambition. Sure. I felt like I was getting really good at stand-up. And I was like, this year is I'm going to work on like getting up to being a guy who can do an hour, who can headline, who can this and that. How old were you doing at the time? I up until that point was not doing more than like 15, 20 minutes. And that year was like, I'm going to build this up.

Yeah. And I was able to like headline Caroline's one night and do like an hour and be able to start doing hours where I felt like, oh, and I didn't even use that. You know? Yeah. Like I had extra material that wasn't being used. I wasn't sweating to get to an hour. Right. So I felt good about that.

And that was really my mind was like, I think vinyl had been picked up for a second season. And I was like, this is a day job. Yeah. Right? Yeah. This day job contractually, I found myself in this good position. This is a fun work environment. I don't really have to do anything as an actor.

Right. I just have a mustache and I smoke a cigarette in the background and that's it. Right. But like, nice work if you can get it. I don't really want to be auditioning for other stuff. I'm happy to have this and otherwise, like, all energy. I now have an hour. I want to focus on.

So you're posting and acting and making sure that and really focusing on stand-up. That was my thought. Yeah. And I draft an email to my agents to just say like, vinyl got renewed. I don't need to pursue anything else. Don't put me up for anything. I want to spend a year where I just focus on stand-up

and we put all our energy towards that and I'm kind of done with the acting thing. And I went in for one pilot season show. It was the day the vinyl got picked up. I was waiting for that news so I could tell them like, so they wouldn't yell at me about saying, I don't want to audition for a year because I was like, you're still going to get paychecks for vinyl.

Right, right. I'm making some money for you. Right. You know, not a lot, but whatever. So the day that news comes out, I get two things happen. One is I go in for an audition at CBS for a sitcom that I was like, well, that's the last one because now vinyl's been picked up

and I'm not going to do the rest of this pilot season. Right. I was recurring on vinyl. I wasn't regular, but I was still like, I'd rather do this than do a crappy sitcom order. I can't have my heart broken again. It was also kind of my thing. Especially watching how the Malini thing got butchered with the notes and everything.

There was this whole thing of like, man, if Malini can't make it through this system, you know, and Lauren Michaels is producing it for him, and they're still fucking up the whole show. Network, man. Right, network, network. Yeah. But I go in for that CBS audition, and I'm like, there we go.

That's the last one. Yeah. I'm done this year now. It's February. The show's been picked up. I do that during the day. They call me in like once or twice a month to smoke a cigarette, and I do stand up on the road.

Like, that's my year. And I check my phone and I get the auditioned self-tape for the tech. Isn't that funny how that happens? Yeah. It's so crazy. There's so many similar stories to that where it's like, I'm almost done. And I had the email drafted to send to them. Did you save it?

I saved it, yeah. But I was like, well, I can't not see if I could get cast on the tick. Right. I need to, because like the tick was for me what Ninja Turtles wasn't. That was a big thing. Your sense of humor. All of it. And like loved the Warburton show.

My brother and I watched it together religiously. Then went back to the cartoons. Like loved it. Loved it, loved it, loved it. knew it well. Right. I get the audition. I'm like,

what part is it? It's Arthur. Holy shit. Right. And I read the script. I'm like, this one's really about Arthur. Like, Arthur's the central character of this.

So I simultaneously go, well, now there's no chance I get it. If he's really the star of the thing, they're going to want to get someone who's a proven entity. But I need to ride this out and see how far I can get with it. So I just, I get kind of obsessive about that part. And,

do a self-tape because they weren't seeing people in New York but the casting director liked me. I'd never met her before but she had wanted to put me in something else and it didn't work out and she sort of kept like, I gotta find a part for him someday.

And what I find out after the fact is she gets this and goes, this is the Griffin part. Like she in her mind was like my job is to get him hired for this. That's awesome. But that's the way this stuff happens is you over time, find champions who help you.

I do myself tape. They send it in to Edland, Ben Edlin, who is creator of all things tick and showrunner of this show as well. He likes it. He's going to be in New York, meet with people. Everyone's meeting with is like an established TV actor. But I go get

coffee with him, and I think I just said all the right stuff. You know, of just understanding the tapestry of this thing. I was trying to hide how much of a mega fan. You knew it, but you didn't want to come up like super like fanboy that way. It's like,

oh, he just, what's this going to be? If it's, is this, it's going to affect the performance itself. Well, my thing, too, my, when I was doing stand-up,

so much of my stand-up routine was like, Fuzzy Bear. I think Fossey Bear is, like, the funniest character in history. He's pretty great. And the dynamic of, like, right,

of just him backstage going like, Kerman, I got a hot one. Yeah. This is going to kill. Yeah. And everyone going like, Fosier, are you sure?

Maybe you shouldn't do this. He's like, trust me. Right. And then he goes out on, stage, it bombs immediately, right? Immediately everything goes wrong. Stiler and Waldorf do not hesitate for a second to rip into him. And the veneer comes down and he's like, guys, please, I'm trying my hardest. Yeah, yeah. You know, and I just as a kid used to think that was the funniest thing in the world. Whereas in doing stand-up, and for a long time, my friends would be like,

you are overthinking this, just tell jokes. I was like, the thing I'd love to do is say something on stage, the audience laughs at it, and then I react like they weren't supposed to laugh at that, and I'm embarrassed and they're judging me. Right. Right. And as the set goes on, I feel more and more like my confidence is crumbling. Yeah. Which was difficult and took a lot of energy.

And when it didn't work, it really didn't work. It's kind of like an Andy Kaufman-ish type thing. A little bit. Not that heightened. Yeah. But I was really interested in that energy. Yeah. And Ben, you know, doesn't talk about things in literal terms.

He talks about things in bigger sort of metaphorical terms and everything. But he was sort of talking about the iconography and how, he felt like this need to evolve and what the tick was saying about modern superhero culture. And I was like, I knew how to answer those questions to show that I understood

what the reference points were for him. And then he just sort of said, like, Arthur's really difficult because here's this character that's always mostly been like a comedic device. Isn't it funny if a guy is terrified? Right, if a superhero is terrified. But he was mostly a comic relief character.

And my whole idea for this show is, can I make him an actual protagonist? Can I make him a character with real feeling? and stakes and interiority because the tick can't change. The tick is an immovable object, right? He can't question himself that much. He is so certain in what he does. There's only so much of an arc you can give the tick

before he stops being the tick. So in coming up with this new version, I realize it has to be an Arthur sort of hero story that the tick is obviously right there for every step of the way. And what's difficult is I'm trying to deal with this heavy stuff. I'm doing this version of the show that deals with mental illness and a suicidal guy and all this sort of stuff. But he has to remain funny.

And the balance for me is finding someone who can play the actual stakes of the thing but land all the jokes because I worry about going too far in one direction or the other. And I said, look, here's what I've been working on in stand-up for the last seven years. Yeah. Right? I just sort of said,

here are all my findings and when I've tried this and when it hasn't work and this and that. I'm usually doing this thing. And sometimes my stand-up routine is, is this guy suicidal and this and that? And I played all this sort of stuff. And I just ran through like, I've been doing all.

R&D for seven years and here's all of what I found. And if you're talking about needing that specific thing, I might be the guy who knows how to do that well. Right. And also, I'm tiny. Right, right. And you need a little Arthur. Right.

You need whoever you cast to make the guy playing tick look even bigger. I go do that. My agents email me. They're like, you're Ben Edlin's first choice. I go, congratulations, amazing, Griffin. You nailed it. Unbelievable. And they go, hold on.

It's not going to happen. They were like, we just need to be realistic here. Like, we know the conversations that are happening at Sony and at Amazon. They want a star. It's really unlikely. Yeah. You know, you're still in the mix, but they are, like, sending out straight offers to so many people. And if any of those people say, yes, you're out.

You know? Not even auditioning that many other people. So, like, we're going to stay on it and fight aggressively for it, but it's an uphill battle. Right. And then the thing that happens is... But is that good? That's got to be pretty good that they did it that way, right? Because it's, like, because you're at least preparing yourself?

I think so. Yeah. The next day, uh, I get an email that the CBS I come out of audition for, the one where I was like, this is the last one.

Yeah. Um, wanted me to test. So fucking crazy. And I thought that was like the worst audition I'd ever done in my life. So crazy. How the universe just works, man. Right. I'm dating someone at the time and I remember waking up, checking my phone,

turning over to her and going, holy shit. Yeah. And she went, what? And I went, I'm going to get the tick. And she went, what? and I said, I know exactly what's going to happen here because I went through this with the Malini thing and the other times I was testing

and the Ninja Turtles thing, the fact that CBS now wants me is going to light a fire under Amazon's ass and they're going to think that there's something that CBS knows that they don't know. And suddenly I will seem like a commodity of them and that is exactly what happened. And like I had Ben in my corner,

I had the casting director in my corner, Barry Joseph and the producer eventually, Wally Fister, but like they brought me in for a screen test and they were like, we know there's the CBS, there's a ticking clock they want you to sign a test deal and for people who don't know when you're testing for shows it's like you if you're testing for a network TV show I guess it's maybe a little less with cable at this point in streaming especially in pilot season when

everything's going at the same time they want you to sign a contract locking in what your deal would be right before you even do the final audition so that if they choose you you have no leverage in negotiations. So they're like, here's your seven-year contract, right? And if you sign this, we have a hold on you until we decide whether or not we want you and you're off the table and no one else can even consider you. And so that was the fear of God they were able to put into Amazon, which my reps played very well of like CBS wants him to sign this thing like immediately. Let's do it. And he's going to do it unless you give him a test. What was the show? Can you say? The Great Outdoors with Dr. McHale. They ended up just casting McLaughen.

Okay. Chris Ransplas, a great actor. I don't say that derisively. But it was one of those things were like, I believe if I had tested for that, they would have gone, why don't we just see if McLevin's available and pay him eight times more?

I didn't want to do it. That was the other thing. I was very much in my headspace of, I'd be happy just doing stand-up. Right. I don't need to do this. But you used it as a negotiation tool. Absolutely.

I was never going to test for that thing. But I used it as a negotiation tool. It got them to bring me into the room. Is it? And there were no executives was there. It was Edland. It was Felicia Fazzana, the casting director, Wally Fister, and Valerie Curry had already been cast, and played my sister on the show. She was the first person cast. They hadn't found a tick yet. So I was able to do the chemistry test with her,

and they were like, everyone in this room wants you to get this part. The goal of today is just however much time it takes to get the best tape to send to the execs and go, come on. Yeah. And so that took a lot of pressure off of it. Yeah. And everybody was on you. All same team. There's no one, not on your team in that room. Right. And right. Right. And, And it worked. And it worked. You know how we're connected to the tick, right? Ish?

No, I don't think so. So when I was becoming a regular comedy story doing the stuff, I lived with my buddy, Adam Winkleman. Okay. And so Adam had a girlfriend that we were very, a lot of us were very creative and we would do these sketches and I would bounce stuff off of her and she would bounce stuff from me and she was a struggling actress and making her way up,

Gianna Martinez. So she's the best The best. She's such a sweetheart. I love her to death. The best. She's the best. So that was that was how Because when after you and Peter came in Right. She came in not too long after. Right, right. Right. Right. Yes. So where you guys were promoting the show and you publishes to reach out. Afterwards, I just reached out to Yada. Yeah. I was like, come on the show. She's like, hell yeah.

So she's the best. She's one of my favorite people I don't know. Down to earth. Just real person. Yeah. I mean, and that show was very difficult to make. And I was very frustrated, obviously, by how it ended. Yeah. But it was just everyone on that show was so wonderful. Like I liked so much as people and really enjoyed playing with. Yeah, I mean, it was very hard. It's one of those things where like growing up I would watch movies like Ghostbusters

or Men in Black or Galaxy Quest and go, why isn't everything like this? Like, why isn't everything a comedy that has special effects and action set pieces and everything? Right. And then you try doing that and you're like, oh, because it's impossible. It is so tough. To reconcile those different elements, the process of getting funny performances on set runs so counter to the technical precision

and the mathematical pre-planning of visual effects and even just everyone wearing these prohibitive costumes and contact lenses and everything. It's very hard to do. It is, and I know that, I remember you telling me that, I think when we start talking about Shmowdown, just on a conversation how, because you have so many different things

that you're paying attention to, You were talking about it's being taught in school. Yes. They definitely don't teach you that. No, no, no. I mean, the amount of things, the amount of problem solving that had to be done in any given scene of that show was intense. Yeah. Yeah.

It was a good burn and it was a thing I would have happily done for as many years as they let me. I'm sure. But it was like it was a lot of, a lot of work. Yeah. Well, we are here with Griffin Newman. And yes, I'm definitely going to, if how do we, he and I not talk about Masters of Universe of course. I tried to tee it up right to that point. We are going to.

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That's code S-E-N-Live only at Draft Kings, the official daily fantasy partner of the NFL. It's a minimum of $5 deposit required. Eligibility restrictions apply. Cedraft Kings.com for details. You know, getting into Masters of the Universe, so I know it was funny because when you came into

Shmodam, you had mentioned to me, you're like, well, I know you're a big master's guy. Did you see that thing that they did the big documentary? Is that where you realized it? Because I didn't even realize. There was some big documentary on YouTube where my story of how I was involved with Masters was in there. I've watched all those documentaries, but I think I don't know how. Maybe it was because we were about to do Collider Live, or maybe it was because we had just

done it. But I saw the video where you on Collider Live were running through your history of trying to develop it at Silver. So I knew it because of that before I watched the documentary. But I remember, I mean, because I'm a huge Motu fan. So you notice when someone else is, because I'm a huge Motu fan. it's not something that everyone likes Batman. You know, no, yeah.

Because I think there's such a misconception with the property where people, because it was developed because of the toys and everything too, and they wanted, and it was basically Conan the Barbarian is what they wanted to do. And then when it was developed and it came out in 80s, the majority of people fell in love with it

because of the 80s. There's a lot of great lore inside of that 80s. It's great lore. But a lot of it's pretty cheesy, you know, and a lot of it, the drawings, the animation, like tons, tons of stuff. So when the 2002 version came out,

that to me, it was like, someone figured it out and it didn't do very well. It did okay. That was like my generation. I had an older friend at Summer Camp who got me into the filmation classic stuff, but it was very hard to watch or find or anything.

But I was like being sold on that the year or two before the 2000 X series comes out. And that I was all in on. I had all the figures. I was watching the show every week. I was like that was my, the one I got to live through. Right.

You know? And, well, the lore in that one, they really expanded on it. Like, I liked the idea of the thousands of years before he made, like the house more of the origin on Skeletor. Yeah. All of it. And so my frustration with Masters of the Universe,

besides the shit that I went through, but like the idea that nobody really could grasp what this thing was live action. Right. Yeah, which it's so bizarre because it seems so obvious to me. It's Star Wars meets Lord of the Rings. It's fantasy and magic. Science and magic. It's all of that.

And Lord of the Rings, and then you see a spaceship kind of fly through it. And it's really all it is. And even if you just look at any image from the filmation show, and you just go, just imagine this in live action now. It feels like the most epic thing in the world. Even those banal images, we're just, even just down to like the purple skies of everything.

Everything. The depth of the vehicles, the buildings, the characters, all this stuff. And yeah, there's like, you had a lot of very high-level people like Paul Dini and Jay Michael Czinski who were writing on that show and were like trying to put as much into a show that could have just been a tossed-off toy commercial. Right, right. But then the fact that it is designed to be a toy commercial, give this show this weird power because they just had to keep on putting more and more into it. Expanded so quickly because they just had to keep on working in all the products. So the world just felt like infinite. Yeah.

I hope people understand, because obviously you can't really talk about Motu these days in a post-revelation world without people having, being very defensive about it. But I hope people know what the origin of this term is. But like the upstate New York garbage plate, right, which is like a dish where it's like, what if you just put everything good and learn thing? That's what I view Motu as is like a garbage plate where it was. You have a bunch of executives at Mattel who want to fight Star Wars. And they go, how do we beat Star Wars? And the pitch was, is it a barbarian thing? Is it a military thing?

Is it a sci-fi tech thing? And they went, it's all of it. Just put it in there. Just put everything in there. And the fact, I've always loved the sort of messiness of the mythology. And that, like, the mini-comics bump up against the filmation show, 2000X, you know, new adventures. The toys have their own inner mythology. But that if you pick and choose from it, there are so many interesting things you can do there.

And there's so many things like for me, I mean, not to jump ahead, but like, revelation for me is like taking this TILA plot line that's been there the whole time, but has never really been. The second or third episode in the- Tila's Quest is in the first 10. Yeah. Yeah. And it's like-one of the, it might be the second or third.

It's very, very early. And it's, that's been there the entire time. Right. You know, but that was a show that couldn't really be serialized and had to keep on pushing and this and that. And it's like, there's so many little pockets you can go in. into there and find really interesting things. Well, this is what, you were going to say?

No, I was going to say, as opposed to the tick where it was just like needing to line everything up perfectly, but also this audition email just lands in my lap. Motu was a thing where I just like actively, actively pursued it. Did you know Kevin beforehand? I had met him, I don't even know if he remembers this, but I had like doing Comic-Con stuff for The Tick. Yeah.

I had done stuff that he moderated interviewed a couple times. But that's like a very transactional thing. I didn't know him personally at all. Two of the writers who were hired onto the show, I did know. One of whom, through mutual friends, one of whom because she was the writer's assistant on season one of the tech. Got it. The one friend Eric Carrascoe who worked on Supergirl with my friend Derek Simon, who's like my oldest childhood friend. And then Eric's written for a bunch of different DC stuff, the animated movies, Justice League action, tons of stuff.

But he wrote most of the episodes that Kevin directed. Okay. On Supergirl. Yeah. Kevin brought him in, and he's, like, really deep on D.C. Okay. He likes Motu. He knows he doesn't know it as well as he could because he knows what it's like to be a megafan.

Sure. So he's, like, two, three days before the writer's room is opening, he goes to Derek, and he's like, do you know anyone who, like, knows Motu well? And he's like, Griffin. Call Griffin. And I have, like, an hour-long phone call with him where he was just like, I just want to hear from someone who's, like, a mega fan. What are the things that you like most about this?

What are the things you'd most want to see in a show? What are the things this and that? And I was sort of explaining, like, it is a messy mythology. Everything negates itself, you know? I think what's cool, like, fundamentally is that it's magic and tech. And I don't know if anyone's ever really reckoned with that. The weird contrasting energy of the... I'm not presenting any of this as if I was pitching ideas, right?

But I was just saying, like, these are things I've always liked. And it's the depth of the characters and the diversity of all these weird elements and just everything being mashed in there and all this sort of... of stuff. And then at the end of it, he went, and what do you think about Orko? And I went, well, Orko's like the divisive character. Like, you know, depending I think on what age you were and it could really be off by a year or two, it feels like for people who grew up with it, Orko is either C3PO or Jar Jar. Right. Right. It's either like, well, he's essential or, like, that's the one thing that's the one thing that's the one thing that's true. I'm on the C3PO side of it,

but you're 100% right there. Right. And I think some people like to now act like everyone always, liked Orko, which, like, I was on those message boards 20 years ago. It's not the case. It's not the case. It's not the case. Even if it was more people who liked him, it is like, if you were watching the show when you were eight as opposed to six, you might go, like, orca's a little silly for my taste, you know?

But I was saying, like, I think he's fundamental and essential and this and that. And I was even sort of relating it to, like, it's the Foszie Bear thing for me. It's the fact that he tries so hard every time he thinks this trick's going to work and it doesn't. But he perseveres in the face of that. Realizing the moment, like, oh, there are these weird overlaps with, Arthur and he's this tiny, underqualified flying dude who was trying to do the thing.

And he went, because like, am I crazy? I feel like you'd be good as Orko. And I was like, well, yes, obviously I would be good as Orko. Yes. And he was like, okay, I mean, I don't know if I have any power, but certainly I independently had that thought. Yeah. That you seem like you could play Orko well.

Right. Who knows if that goes anywhere. And my other friend gets hired there. So the one advantage I had was, I knew before the show had been announced. Yeah. So I gave my agents the heads up. Like this is...

It's coming. It's coming. Yeah. Let's get in there early. Right. And they're like, what? This? Why this part?

You know, I'm like coming off of the tech and they're like, you should be like a leading man on television. I'm like, I really want to play orco. Yeah. Like, that's the priority for me. Yeah. And I really just kind of put like everything into it because I felt it was a character that would be very easy to get wrong.

Yeah. And I also felt to a certain degree, I felt a little bit of that. this with Arthur, I felt a lot more of it with Orca, where it's like, it would be great to win over everyone who used to think this character was annoying. Right. It would be great to find a way to add a little depth to it, not in any way criticizing the people who played it before, but just the shows were different. What was asked for them is different.

This is going to be a more modern show. It's a little more adult-oriented. Can you add a little more depth and sort of emotional texture to this character? So it becomes impossible to write off. while not transforming him radically enough that he's no longer recognizable as the thing you grew up with. Which was the thing I had to do with Arthur, where it's like, now this guy is a lot more intense

and has a lot more interiority and is a lot more realistic than just being like, tick, I don't know, you know? Right, right, right. But I want anyone who loves him to hear him and go, yeah, that's right. He's not doing a take on it that has the right pitch. What I always said to Ben was like, or take in the house that you already built

and we're putting an attic in a basement on it. You know, we're just expanding the range of what can be done there. So I really was like, you know, I would like to play Orca for selfish reasons, but I also think I know how to do it. Well, certainly. I mean, obviously, I thought you did a great job. I told you that. I think my daughter who watched a series absolutely loved Orko.

And these are spoilers, by the way, so people who have not watched it, you should know that. There is, look, we've talked about this. There was a massive explosion online for, there were people who loved that. There were a lot of people who just didn't. So my thing when I talked to you, because you wanted to know my thoughts on the show. And honestly, and like, by the way,

I, when there is such a sort of like organized online backlash, and I say organized because there were YouTube channels that for nine plus months in advance of the thing ever premiering, we're doing sort of like panicky, like... What's this going to be? Uh-oh. Beyond that, like, we hear it's woke SJW agenda, you know, like, and, you know, half the things that they're leaking are correct, but they're presenting it in the wrong context.

That was my, so that's... And in the process, they're spoiling the show. And then the other half of the stuff they're saying is incorrect extrapolation, fear-based on what they think from what they know is going on there. And there's a lot of, like, misreading into it. I am very willing to accept valid criticism. And I also think that Motu in particular, all the iterations of it have been different enough.

And they don't fit well with each other enough that people have their preference. And you're never going to be able to please everybody. As much as this show was trying to pull a little something from everything. You know, I mean, the story I've told is that like when the trailer got posted on AV Club, and I was checking the comments. The first comment was someone saying, like, hard pass for me. In my opinion, He Man ended when it stopped being a cave guy who leaves his small tribe and gets a harness from the green goddess.

And it's like, that's mini comic number one packaged with the first year of toys before there's a cartoon show, before they're long comic. How old was this guy? Like 65? Who knows? Who knows? But the point is for that guy, it was done. It peaked in the very first stage. Right.

And I'm like, that's a valid opinion. There are people who like that canon of it more And they like this canon more and that canon more And so like if especially if you're trying to combine a little bit of everything It's not going to please everybody I was very curious for your opinion Because I knew you'd be honest with me And you were a fan

If it felt like it didn't hit the right boxes Or it went against fundamental tenets for you That you would be honest 100% And I said it to you And the same thing that I said I think I believe I said it on the air And I'll say it again too

The animation is gorgeous Incredible, powerhouse It's amazing work 100%. The tone itself hits it. My biggest criticism with it is not the angle itself. I think the angle of the story itself works. And I know some people like, wait, what?

It works. You don't think Hayman should be. You can replace and you can remove things. And he's coming back. If you don't think he's coming back, you're out of your fucking mind. But the point, the point. You've either never watched anything or you're being willfully up to us. But what I do agree with is I don't think you should have started with that.

I think that you should have started and gotten people reattached to this world. because it wasn't like it just went off the air. It's been off the year for a long time. So if people were then, okay, look, this is the world again. Look at what we're doing here. This is He-Man. This is Adam. This is what he does.

And for like seven, eight episodes, you're on adventures with He-Man. You're seeing what he does. You've seen him kick-ass, battle against Skeletor. And then this angle happens. I think, first of all, I think it not only diffuses, but it also gives those people less of an argument to say, that's a, that's a S-G-W thing right off the top. Because it's like it leads into it. It's part of the arc.

it seems like, and I know it's not, but it seems like this is what the show is, deal with it fuckers, it's not that. It's different. And if you have a problem with her haircut, you have a problem with her haircut, for God's sakes, who cares? Right, right. And by the way, you know,

there's this weird sort of circuitous thing of people saying like, why do they need to make everything so political, even down to the haircut? And it's like, you are the one now politicizing the haircut. It's a haircut. The haircut's a haircut. Do you want to know why she has that haircut?

because that's the haircut that Kyler Lee has on Supergirl and Kevin directed an episode with her before he started work on this and he was like, that's a cool haircut. And which it doesn't, it means the haircut did not bother me all the way. The only thing that I said was like, I like this angle.

I see the Lord of the Rings thing you're doing with Orko. I see all this. I just said it to me, it would have been so much more impactful if I had more Orko in my life for seven or eight episodes. And then he dies, yeah, in that seventh or eight episode or ninth episode rather.

And then I'm like, like, oh shit, well, they're going to bring them back, obviously. But man, I was so attached to him because I was attached to him in this because I knew him so well. But for new people coming in, it's like, he's in, he's out, he's gone. And it does seem, it does show like, well, he man's dead, orco's dead. We're going to kill all the dudes. And I know that's not what Kevin's going for.

I know that it's not. But I also understand how people look at it and they go, oh, that's what they're doing. And it's like, no, they're not doing that. I just thought it should have led up to a little bit. I'll say two things about this, that I think, I can pull back the curtain to this degree. One of which was there were 10 episodes written all at once. It was designed very much as a 10 episode miniseries.

And the thought was always that they were all going to be released at the same time. Right. And I believe the fundamental thing that messed that up was COVID. Yeah. Because sort of the first half the season was recorded, they were animating, and then the second half the season was going to get recorded in terms of the voice work three months later. Yeah. And it ended up being nine months later because they didn't want people back in studio.

Right. So that the first five episodes got done a lot faster and the second five were at a little bit of a delay. Yeah. They wanted to hit whatever that release date was. I think it was maybe tied to the hope that Comic-Con and everything would still happen at that point. And that July would be a good launching pad for that and whatever. There was sort of a game time decision of the first five are 100% locked. The second five are like 90% locked.

Right. do you want to wait another four months to release all 10 or do we want to get five out here right now? The other thing is there's the second Netflix kids show he man, which I'll get to in a second because that ties into your thing. And they want to launch it before that so there could be a classic before the re-thing. There are a lot of things that are above my pay grade. Right, right, right. I still perhaps am simplifying in how I explain it. Right.

But I think the story makes a lot more sense if you watch 10. and I do think that you know, I've gotten to read all the scripts. I haven't gotten to watch all of them. You know what's going to happen though, right? I do. And like the episodes I'm not in. I want it to read.

I don't mean inside the story itself. I mean, you know what's going to happen is because you already know how it's going to go. Yes, I know exactly what's going to be released. And all these things are going to happen that were supposed to happen anyway. And they're going to say, we did it. It was sunk the hedgehog. We got them changed the design.

Absolutely. I mean, it was like the moment the first five episodes came out, they had one week of work left on the remaining five. There was nothing changed by any fan response. But that's not the way they're going to take credit. They're going to take credit. And, you know, there are people who are never going to accept it. Yeah.

And there are people who are going to say, well, now it's good because they did this and come back around to it. And there are people who will just watch all 10 for the first time now and I think it will go down smoother. Yeah. But that I think did screw us up in a lot of ways. Yeah. The same thing happened with the Tick. There were similar mechanations where our first season was six and six that were split up because they wanted to launch at Comic-Con, and we only started filming late. And it was like, we filmed 12 episodes, and then a week later we were promoting the first six.

It was like a blur. And then, and this is another problem in the streaming age is people watch six episodes or five episodes. I don't mean to criticize anyone, but I think in the case of both the Tick and in Motu Revelation, I do not. think either streaming service did a good job of communicating. This is just half of a season. Right. I kind of think if... Terrible job, to be honest with you.

You don't, I mean, because... Horrible, I'll say that. I didn't even know when the second half was coming out. They still have not announced it. And I kind of believe that if you're going to do that as someone who is now both times, and the tick backlash was not the same thing. But I saw people going like, well, now, how long do I have to wait? Is the show canceled?

This and that. And you want to yell at people. Like, we're done. They're done. They're sitting in a hard. drive somewhere. They're the done. Yeah.

It's not our choice. We didn't want you to watch it this way. But it was bizarre to me how little that was communicated. Yeah. Where anytime I was doing anything to promote the show and I was, you know, they're not sending me out to do press. The stuff I've been doing stuff like this where it's like friends, oh, do you want to come on?

Can I come on your thing? Whatever. I love talking about, uh, he man. Yeah. I was saying this stuff as loudly as I could from my limited platform because I felt like no one else was communicating that. I think if you're going to do that, you have to sort of say, here's part one, we're advertising it is part one,

the title is part one, we're telling you before part one comes out when part two is coming out. 100%. Just wait and sit back before you... I think that's how you have to frame it because in both Tick and He-Man, I've seen people go, well, what now, what if the show gets canceled? Because we're all used to streaming services,

putting a lot of money and time into something and then abandoning it, and the story is unresolved. And that's really frustrating to people. And so if they're watching five episodes, that they think is a complete statement, right? That in their mind, they think that was all they intended to do, and they were happy ending the show at that point. It's a lot easier to get angry about it when it's like,

those are five episodes that work up to the end of empire. I agree. That works up to a low. Yeah, I just, like everything's broken, and now the drama is how does everything get put back together? Because no spoilers, but like, of course, the point of the show is to reassemble the status quo. Yes.

Having changed, you know, people having, learned and evolved over the course of this, but, like, he didn't want to just break the entire universe. Right. I don't think that was, look, I've been pretty, I've been pretty critical on, I mean, when I first saw Last Jedi, yeah, when I saw it in the theater, I didn't

really know, I didn't know how, people were like, why didn't you tweet? I'm like, I don't, I'm processing. Yeah. And then when I saw it the second time, I said, you know what, this is a really good movie, and I stand by the fact, it's a very well-made film. Yeah. It's one of my least favorite Star Wars movies now. Sure. and more and more watch it.

Sure. But I do think that Ryan Johnson intended to shift things and to move things around a bit, right? I don't think that was Kevin's intent at all. No, I mean, it was not. It was fundamentally not. Yes. And I think the thing that is a little confounding to me is there are such deep cuts on that show. Yeah. Both in writing and animation and story plot points and callbacks to things, you know, and not.

just like Easter egg stuff, but really wanting to pull from every corner of the thing, that whether or not you like what they did to like throw out the accusation of insincerity of they don't even like or know this thing at all. That's not fair. It's like clearly they do. You can dislike what they did with it. And I know it's shitty for me to say, well, you can't judge yet because you haven't seen the whole thing.

Of course you can judge. You can have your feelings about the first five. But that was not how anyone intended for it to be seen. Right. The second thing I was going to say is that in terms of, of you talking about wishing there was more of a status quote before the dramatic thing happens. My understanding, and I hope I don't get in trouble for saying this, is that, you know, Mattel really wanted to bring Motu back. It's been dormant for a while. The last couple of years,

they start doing comics, they start developing new toy lines, they know they need to do a series. This movie has been in the works forever. A couple years ago, it seemed like it was closer to happening, and they thought it would maybe be coming out around now. And they wanted a new series to go along with that, right? And their priority was doing what is. is now the show that's about to premiere Keyman and the Masters of the Universe, which is CGI, kid-oriented. It's a little more Ben 10 techy sort of stuff. It's a much more radical reinvention of everything, right, from Square One.

And that the idea of doing Revelation was more of like a pet project from some very committed people that they had to work really hard to sell on. Can we please do this? There are hardcore fans who are older, who have loved this thing at different points in time. if we're going to do this hard reboot and I don't know where the movie stands right now but the movie as it was planned a couple years ago

also would have been a pretty divergent take from what has been known before. I've seen scripts. Didn't like it. Didn't like it, right? You know, hopefully now if we get a live action movie it is more faithful. But I think they knew,

oh, we're going to have two big radical reinventions and a lot of the big Motu fans were like, you know, and Teddy Biaselli, who's the executive of Netflix, who has like a house a room in his house devoted to Motu. And he comes from animation,

he was a stop motion guy, he's like one of the few execs I've ever met, if not the only executive I've ever met, who you're like, you are creative. You actually are, you know. It's his favorite thing. And there was just this passion of like, could we do this?

Can we just do 10 episodes that are for the people who grew up with this thing? So the idea of being able to establish more of status quo to then disrupt it was like, The entire existence of the show is almost a cookie. Right. You know? Right.

I think then as it started developing, then Mattel got really bullish on it. The fact that there are now figures and merchandise and they put more of a push behind it was only when they were really getting amped by what they were seeing as it came along. And now, you know, the intention is to do another season. It's like, make it count. So they're like, so Kevin and I get it. So it's like, you know, well, all right, I could do this, but really this is the need of my story. They sort of treated it as this is the epilogue to everything that came before. And that all is the lead up to this.

That's the lead up. Right. That is the... I get it. I get it. I just think it, I think that it proves to be a little tough. Absolutely. Absolutely. But a lot of it comes down to just how many working parts there are in these things. You know? Well, look, man, it was an absolute pleasure to have you on here today. So much fun. When are you coming back in L.A., you're going to be in... I know, look, I'm going to see you in New York. Yes.

I'm going to see October 9th, by the way, if you didn't know, Griffin Newman plays Josh Harrowitz. in the undercard of the and now oh no i can't say yet i can't say it with the uh with the main event is i almost i almost spoiled the main event i can't spoil the main event yet it's for the singles championship i can tell you you you will find out everybody uh tonight on paper view between marisole mckee and ethan erwin winner of that will play chance ellison in the main event so um yeah griffin will be there and then uh yes when are you back in ellen well you ask this question i throw it back to you to a certain degree because at the time we're recording this Tomorrow, King Arthur, the first team's match of myself and Jeffrey King Kong,

happens. If that goes well, we're on to the next level. If I beat Horowitz, I'm on to the next level. Then you can potentially be out here for that. A lot of incentivization to get back here soon if I have two more matches. I love that. I love that. And that's very possible because you're playing up a storm right now.

Ladies and gentlemen, Griffin Newman, please follow him at Griff Lightening. Make sure you check out if you haven't gone and watched the 10. tick. Go back and watch the tick. Please do. Go back, watch it. And then obviously watch Mo2. So much more, Griffin News.

Check out Black Check as well. Everybody. Check out Blank Check out Blank Check. It's awesome having you, my man. Thank you. And we will see you guys next time. Make sure you subscribe to us. Apple Podcasts, Spotify.

Leave some comments. I've been responding to everybody here. Peace out, Mother Earth.