The Kristian Harloff Show - REWATCH! Batman (1989)

Episode Date: January 14, 2022

Follow on Twitter Kristian Harloff https://bit.ly/31PePMD Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

If you're looking to get a new car, you could really cut expenses by bundling your car and renters insurance with Progressive. Sure, you love your old car, but you know it's not normal to give instructions on how to open the window. It should be self-explanatory, but it's not. And notice how when you're in other people's cars you can feel cushion in the seats? That's pretty nice, right? No, it's just normal. So bundle your renters and car insurance with Progressive and put the savings toward a new car. It's time.

Progressive Cash, Caut Insurance Coverage Coverage provided in service by affiliates and third-party insurers. All right, everybody, we're back. That's right. We're back. And what do I mean by back? Because I've been around. I haven't got anywhere. But the rewatch series. We're excited to get that's rewatch series. I was so so excited for the movies that we did in Spider-Man, rewatch. We did Star Wars. And you guys have just been so fantastic.

And I was a Matrix. It's been so fantastic in the feedback. And there's been more questions as far as what movies are going to rewatch. How are we going to do it? And we decided that we're going to line up whatever the big releases are. And if there's enough movies to do that, right? And obviously the big release this year, my most anticipated, and a lot of people's most anticipated is the Batman,

with Robin Pattinson, Matt Reeves directing, so many great people inside of it. So we're like, okay, well, we got about seven weeks to do this. So how many movies are we going to watch? What are we going to do? And who are we going to have to be on the show? And I know, I know you guys love Winston and Coy, but unfortunately they were both available.

So we got Winston and Coy. So we're going to be doing myself, Winston Coy, going to be talking about Batman because there's only seven weeks we're choosing seven movies. There's going to be some where you guys are like, oh, you missed this one. You missed that one. And I said, I know, I know. But there's going to be an explanation as far as why. If we miss some, how we're going to make that up, don't worry about it.

But what I will tell you to worry about is subscribe to this mother effing channel. Do it. Hit the subscribe button. Notification buttons also. Apple podcast. Spotify. We're moving up on Spotify. Really cooking on Spotify.

But you guys, whether you listen to this show, on YouTube or not and you'll pay attention on video, please subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Helps tremendously helps keep us on the air. No donations here. But I'm ready to get going, man. We're going to do the rewatch of Batman 1989. Tim Burton, the one who really kind of kicked us off into the Batman live action, not including the Adam West one. I know, I know, but it's this is a big one. This is, this was still gold standard to a lot of people on a superhero movie. but we're going to talk about all of that and more Jack Nicholson, Michael Keaton, Kim Basinger, Robert Wool.

Man, where's he been? All right, let's get into this. Come on, it's the big thing. What's up, everybody? Here we are. It is the big thing. And it is. Oh, look at these guys. Look at these guys.

I'm even going to give them this. Boom. Look at. It is the big, and it is Winston A. Marshall, Coy, Jan Drew, I have been away from these guys because it is a stupid time. I mean, I won't lie. It made me kind of sad.

You whatever joke you did about like, you know, I know you guys love coy. You guys love Winston. And unfortunately, they were available. So I, I, I hardcore laughed, but I was like, I'm fucking muted. If we were at the same place, you would have heard me in the back talk about, ha! Yeah, that was a full. cackle. Like I, like, it'll like a list in the full, like, well-down. Thank you.

Thank you. I like the fact that within within three minutes and 12 seconds, you guys being on the air, probably within 75 seconds, Winston has already dropped an F-bomb, so that's good. There it is. I got it out of the way. I got it out of the way. There'll be more.

You can't control him. He's at his house. My favorite is that when people are like, why you're being so tough off the F-bomb, he curse all the time. They're in a regular. And yeah, but this is this Batman. And kids are tuning into this. When it comes to big thing, it's like you let it fly a little bit.

I mean, if you heard George Lucas and Morgan Freeman and Jeff Goldblum on the show on last Thursday or yesterday, you would know that F bombs were a plenty. And we're probably going to get some more here. But this is, Coy, we talked about it off air, man. The Batman series, we figured, okay, we got seven weeks until we think Batman is coming,

the Batman is coming out. We chose seven movies. You want to tell the audience which seven we're going to do? So I figure with the structure of the four movies kind of feeling like a unit, you go from the Keaton to the Schumacher as a unit, you've got the same Alfred there. So those films definitely feel like weirdly a quadrilogy, and they're actually packaged together.

And then Nolan is three, because you've got his trilogy. That's beautifully seven. I love Ben Affleck's Batman. I think Batfleck is one of the best. But conveniently, it is a year of three Batman's because we have Flashpoint coming out this year. So what we can do is watch these seven now and then watch all the batflex leading up to Flashpoint.

That way we reflect both series and it kind of gives us more of that Snyder flavor leading into Andy Mochietti's Batman. I think that's the move. Yeah, Winston, I was thinking of this, man, is that because to be honest with you, we probably could even done the Batman, the Burton Batman's plus Schumacher to lead up to the Flash or Flashpoint or whatever because that almost ties in even more. It's Keaton more directly. Yes, but the Nolan movies, the Nolan movies to me, if you look at the. the tone of what we've seen in the trailer thus far in the Batman. That to me is the best rewatch out of it, but we already kind of, we've got

seven weeks, we figured why not, and we can use it as reference later on, because Batman App's supposed to show up in Flash also. That's something, and if and when they move the Batman, we can watch a mask of the Phantom and some goodness. No, no, no, I think that that's a smart move, just looking at how the math works, we would have done, we would have, between

I'm sure all of y'all are aware of this, if, you know, the world didn't decide to re-end all over again. We would have done more, but it's this is what time is permitted. So I think that that's the perfect solution to the problem, because we'll still cover everything by the time the year is out, since we have two Batman films to work with.

But yeah, I think this is a great, a great game plan. What a gift. I know. Well, it's a good start also because we, it was, if we wait any longer for us to get back in studio, we probably aren't going to do any of these movies at all. So we figured, let's just, let's just do it. I've been taking guests. I just had Josh Robert Thompson on. I'm having Freddie Prince Jr. on. Danny Fernandez is coming on. We got, we have Bobby Moynihan coming on the show,

Jamie Kennedy coming on the show. We got a lot of, we got a lot of guests. Are you going to talk screaming Jamie Kennedy? Because that is. I have to. I want to see, I want to see if he's seen it at that point. But Steve Zaragoza, Jessica Chobot. We have so many great guests coming up.

Send my love to Jamie Kennedy for whatever reason yesterday. I decided to rewatch Malibu's Most Wanted. Oh, man. And, you know, the funniest part about that movie is, Definitely Anthony Anderson and Tay Diggs. That was insane, but, but it's, it is quite the movie. You know who I reached out to before we get into this? My main thing, who I also reached out to was, are you guys,

were you the one of you guys Sopranos fans? I forget. Not really. I haven't seen it. I haven't seen it. All right. So on the Sopranos is Steve Sharipa, who played Bobby Baccarloff for a handful of seasons, a big part in it.

And his show with Michael Imperioli talking Sopranos was like a massive hit over the last two years, especially in the lead up to many Saints in Newark. And Steve Sharpa followed me back on Twitter because he actually booked me for a comedy when I opened for Jimmy Walker back in Riviera Hotel in Vegas. And I reached out and we started following me. So I reached out to him and I said, hey, so you wanted to go on the show. He's like, I'm not doing press at this time, blah, blah, blah. And I wrote back, I go, I ain't press with in presence these queens. Get him.

Big Bong. I learned about Big Bang. yesterday on S-GN, bro. You just learned about Bing Bong? I just, I didn't know what it was. I had no idea what it was. And Inside Out. TikTok's another language. Yeah, see, I'm

talking about Inside Out, so I have no clue. Oh, it's apparently a New Yorker thing. New Yorkers are just out here talking about Bing Bong all the time at the end of everything. Young New Yorkers. All right, let's TikTok New Yorkers. Let's do it. Here it is, Batman 1989. Dude, this movie,

it's funny, went back as I'm gearing it up to watch it last night. I remember, and I've said probably over the years, similar to what I think with, like, Ramey, right, with Spider-Man movies, I was, I remember saying it on the air a couple times to Batman, to Ellis,

that Batman 89 might have been dated, overrated, all those types of things, too. I certainly didn't feel that way watching it again, and I don't know if it was the nostalgia that was kicking in for me because I remember, because you, you Humps, I don't think you were born when this thing came out, but like, I was one. We won, okay,

and Winston is probably like, so, I was too, dog. I was out of these streets. That's why you said Sopranos, I was like, bro, I was like seven. I'm sorry. Like, I just was. Sopranos, you're talking about it. You can watch it on, it's, it's streaming, it was a streaming phenomenon over the pandemic.

So I don't want to. Yeah, but I had Breaking Bad. Like we, we, and I respect that breaking bad's only because of Sopranos. When Sopranos started, I was like seven. I was like, I was too weak. Whatever. So, but this, but this movie came out of 89. It was, it was a massive, massive,

phenomenon when it came out. I remember, I was not one or two when it came out. And it was, about as big of a movie event as you could get at that time because it wasn't like now it's like every other week you you might get a big spider man comes out that's a massive one whether it's end game or these big movies that come out it's like okay people boom boom boom it wasn't like that in 1989 there were no like this this thing it's set off a craze whether it was the merchandise the fact that they got jack nicholson is the joker like and they had a lot to they had a lot of

positives that they don't have today, right, that if you were making a movie like this. First is that you're really the first one out of the gate. We're not including the Adam West one. You're the first one of the gate minus Superman because Batman was pretty far removed. The Superman at that point, Superman Ford come out. It was a mess.

People don't care about superhero movies, all that. Batman's darker. So by doing that, and you can manipulate, and that's probably what we'll talk about a lot here, is you can manipulate the actual lore of Batman, whether it's Jack Napier and all that kind of stuff. And no one's really going to care. Because it's not like today.

If you made a Batman movie and you did what they do. Oh, that's not the origins of the Joker. People go nuts. But you had that. You had that. But casting Michael Keaton is something that probably doesn't happen. And almost didn't happen in 1989. Bill Murray was supposed to be cast in this movie.

So Tim Burton, him coming along. So there's a lot of stuff in between. But just the setup for this, the big event feel. Now, Winston, because you're a Batman guy. So when this movie, like, when were you first kind of made a wear of this? movie? When did you see this movie for the first time? And the first time you ever watched it, not with the rewatch. What did you think? Um, you know, it's funny. I only saw it for the first time. Uh, I might have been in my early 20s. I had seen, I had seen the, the, uh, museum scene

a million times just because, uh, one of my best friends, uh, growing up, his mom worked for HBO. So she had it all in the house. So randomly, the museum scene kept coming on. And as a kid, I was out be like, yo, the Joker's cool. Like, he just out here playing music and destroying things. Like, yeah. Like, same thing with the money drop, right? I had seen Batman returns and then subsequently Forever and Robin a million times. Like, I have all three of those movies pretty steadily memorized. But watching this film, man, I remember the first time seeing it, having this mentality

of both, like, man, this is a little bit cheesy, but it's not cheesy in this. the sense of like when we were talking about like Spider-Man where it was like over the bike like like none of that it's 80s yeah yeah 80s and that and that's it so it keeps that seriousness it keeps that groundedness but it's just very 80s yeah and once you kind of acknowledge that it's really easy to jack into what is like actually kind of a gripping story to be honest with you it was coy so the the other thing that I there's a lot of reference not references but I guess homage to the Adam West series. There's a lot of times it looks just like you could if you if I sat someone down and said, hey, especially some of the stuff in the museum, right? But if I like, you know when when the Joker comes in

to first introduce himself to Vicki Bale and they're playing the Prince music and they're messing up the paintings and right before as they come in, they're gassing all the people and people are like falling into cakes and stuff like that. Like that's as silly as it is, that that's kind of plucked right out of the Adam West series. It's so smart that Tim Burton being the master of tone that he's, he is was able to add the Gothic style, especially in Gotham's architecture, with his dark sensibilities, but still reflect both sides of Batman, because every time a new Batman comes out, including the one in March, everybody's like, oh, it's either too wacky or too gritty. There's never anyone happy, because I think Batman's one of those characters that people see in two ways because of

Adam West. There are people that love the Batman in blue and his underwear on the outside, and there's also people that love the detective gritty Batman. So I think what they did, especially in those scenes, is they allowed by using the Joker to blend those tones so everyone was happy, which is something that to this day I don't think we really get to do because we pick which lane we're going in. You can't have those hijinks in the Battenson movie, really? And Tim Burton was able to do both. And I think that's one of the reasons it stands up so well over 30 years later. It does.

And I'll tell you this. The other thing is I was looking at it and watching this movie, and I remember one of the big criticisms, or not even criticism, but just a statement made by a lot of people, myself included, was that, well, how much is this really a Batman movie? and more of the Joker origin story and the Jack Nicholson movie. And a lot of that is true where there's a heavy focus on him and understood because of the star power that he brought in at the time. Remember this is 1989.

Jack Nicholson is Jack Nicholson. The biggest paydays of all time is this movie for Jack. And he got like points on the movie and all that. So he's like 52 years old, whatever he is at the time that he does it. Michael Keaton is a comedian that Mr. Mom that nobody thinks should be in this movie in the first place. But I will say that watching this movie back, Winston, there's a lot that is in depth with Bruce Wayne and who he is and the character

and the fact that they're trying to find love and all these types of the thing. And there's some homages, by the way, to like classic film. There's a moment after Vicki Vale finally discovers that Bruce Wayne is, is Batman? And he's sitting in the cave. Alfred lets him in. And they say, like, whatever she says about love, is it possible to love, blah, blah. And it's plucked right out of like a 40s or 50s movie. And it works really well in that particular scenes. Did you see that as well? No, I think so. I think that there's a lot of stuff in here. I keep trying to remember if, do you, have you ever danced with the devil in the pale moonlight got more popular because of this or if it was from something else? I think it was this, right?

But there was a lot of those, a lot of those moments where you're seeing pure filmmaking. I mean, we'll get to the Schumacher films, which have a special spot in my heart for how ridiculous they are. Like, you know, bat nipples and all that stuff. But you could see, like you said, as Koi said, yeah, and badass, exactly. Tap a badass, type of badass. So either way,

the idea that you, like Koi said, you get some of the zaniness. Again, the moment that sticks out more than anything other than the museum is the money drop, which is then immediately flipped with mass murder. The tonality there, that's the Joker. Like, so by picking,

the Joker, you have that option where it's like the whole concept of the Joker is chaos and the chaos of the tone mixed with the greed of Gotham, which is a huge problem throughout the films because Gotham is a character and what we perceive as trust. The guy had just poisoned all of our cosmetics and immediately, which is straight from the comic books, and immediately going into murder, both sets the tone, allows for the tone, and is the character. And for me, I've always kind of thought, you know, the best combination of Bruce Wayne and Batman for me has been Christian bail. I love Ben Affleck when he's in the suit and I love a lot of them out of the suit. But there's definitely moments where I'm like, oh, there's Ben Affleck. Like I definitely, when he got

out of the car in the first appearance, I was like, it's the prick from fashionable male because Kevin Schittes ruined Benzeman. But when I see Michael Keaton, I'm able to go like, oh, that's Bruce Wayne in a different way. The scene in his house when he's like following them behind, looking at all the, uh, that's like to me one of the best Bruce Wayne scenes. And I didn't remember that until this rewatch. He goes, It's from Japan. It's like,

and how do you know that? Because I bought it in Japan. It's the most Michael Keaton response. It was so great, but it was so well done. And he really looks over and he's just like, Bruce Wayne. And then as he's leaving,

what does he say to him? He goes, oh yeah, and get a, get an ox grant. It was so, like, it's just Bruce Wayne.

It's Bruce Wayne mixed with Michael Keaton, which really works. And it said it, it painted him like right away. I mean, it made Michael Keaton more of a massive star. And, rightfully so for the way that he was able to play with with with with Burton

Burton knew him trusted him obviously and I did so be it'll just be it'll just come first be it was first wasn't it I think it was like two years earlier I think Michael Keaton is the Andrew Garfield of Batman's I think Michael Keaton is the one that people forget I think he's the one that actually embodies both characters yeah I think he's the one that's more directly from the comic books I think Val Kilmer is your Toby I think George Clooney I mean George Clooney is your Toby and Val Kilmer is your Tom Holland Val Kilmer should be great on paper in the cinematic essence. It didn't work because the right.

George Clooney is certainly the weird choice like Toby is. You got your Michael Keaton. That's both. He's from the comics. We'll get into the Val camera stuff when we get to that movie. But I know so much more about that and all how that work after watching Val. I don't know if you guys have seen the doc. Yeah. We'll get it. I would recommend Winston before we get into that movie to watch Val because that's a

he gives a lot of insight or at least a part. I mean, the whole movie's great. But at least the part where he's talking about Batman, there's a lot of insight in there that we can use for that movie. It's on Amazon Prime. It's A24's first documentary. Yes, it is. And it's Andrew Freed, my good friend, Andrew Freed from Borwick, which has produced it and found it.

Oh, it's incredible. Congrats to him. That was good work. Yeah. All right. So as we talk about this movie and how it starts out in the tone of it. And Winston said it too. I think that what I definitely step back on things that I said, this is really beautiful filmmaking.

For 1989, there is a lot. Of course, there's some camp. There's some stuff that happens to, like, that you can today, in 1989, you can give it a pass, but it wouldn't fly today as far as story and plot points. Like you spend all this time with Vicki Vale and the Joker climbing up the tower to figure out how the hell to get up there. And then random thugs just keep showing up. Like they just get up there. And then the stupidest thing, by the way, the stupidest thing that I remember as a kid watching going, cut that out.

And I even audibly. Commissioner Gordon, the bell falls. And Commissioner Gordon goes, what are you doing? Get out of you. Five seconds, he's like, all right, come on, let's go. You should have said that the second the bell fell down. Get out of there. What are you doing trying to push it?

Do a sit-up. I mean, I think the biggest thing that sticks out to me with some of these action moments that you mentioned, I remember people getting so mad at, and understandably so just because of where the tone was, but people getting so mad at Snyder about, Babers just are killing everybody. Like, what the hell? And it kills so many. Here's the thing. He starts off not killing. He starts off holding the guy over the thing and whatever and you go, okay, cool, Batman's not going to hurt nobody. When he realizes that the Joker is the one that killed his parents, he goes to the factory, drives the car in, puts the shields up and blows up a factory of like 50 dudes.

Yeah. And he's merciless. Straight up just machine gunning people down on the float, which and then, and he tries. And I don't know how he didn't hit the Joker. He shoots two guns. Four rockets and a machine, two gatling guns, and he misses everything. That's the kind of stuff I mean, like, they get away with that 89. You can't get away with that today. But like, and the other thing I'm going to throw, I'm hoping to throw some knowledge on Koi here, which I only get a couple of these every once in a while. Corey, do you, did you read the adaptation of the, the comic book of Batman?

The stuff where Billy D. Williams becomes Two-Face and all that? I don't know if that happens in the end. this is just a straight up adaptation of the of the novel that of the excuse me of the the movie that they made until they're very this off of the story very um detailed and leading up to the release of the movie and then afterwards and it was like a massive seller again this was you were you were either you were one i think that the 90s or they like a late 80s adaptation i read in the 90s but i haven't touched it since so do you remember what the difference between the movie is and the comic book in the float scene that Winston was talking about when he's gassing everybody.

Nope. The money is not real. It's it's Joker face. So it's Joker bucks the way Usher did that at the strip club? Oh, my Lord. Also, the money looks fake in the movie. That's fake. It looks fake.

And that's why I was looking for it because the reason I think they maybe cut that part out or decided not to go with it is because in the in the comic book, people are going, what the hell this is, this is fake? And then he gasses everybody going, ha ha, got you again. But he does it. And the reason I think they make it look real is that everybody on the street is still jumping for money. And here he is ready to gas people.

Although, once the balloons are gone, everybody's like, all right, try to kill us. That's cool. Nobody, nobody, if anything, I don't know if you notice, people start then running at the bags on the float and just stealing money out of the bags. He's like, he looks at his dude and goes, can I borrow your gun? That's for screwing this up. All right, get him out of here. I don't want nobody here.

That bothered me, though, back then and it bothers me today. Bob was the only one loyal to him throughout the entire movie. And it wasn't Bob's fault. It wasn't Bob's fault. And Bob was he takes out Bob. Agents of chaos. Yeah, but I just felt that was a little out of text because I felt like he was pretty, he liked Bob throughout the entire thing.

And he says, there were tons of idiots you could have killed. His, this, his thugs, again, a pass for 89. His thugs are very similar to those stupid idiots in, in Hawkeye, the track suit in morons. It's very similar. It's like, who's going to be intimidated by these guys? But he has more of a family than Boba Fett does in his show. So there's that.

I feel like the Jack Nicholson and all gets a lot of a free pass. But to me, it definitely felt more like Jack Nicholson with makeup on than the Joker at any point. And a lot of people are like, he's my favorite, blah, blah, blah. And hey, respect to you. Everybody's got their own opinions and preferences. but to me, I never felt like even as a kid, that was the Joker. I felt like it was Jack Nicholson doing his like, I'm a crime boss thing.

So I felt like the killing of the guy was at least a little chaotic as opposed to Jack just being jacked most of the movie. So that didn't bother me as much as like there aren't a lot of Jokerisms except for the plot-based ones. His acting just feels like Jack Nicholson to me. Yeah, I mean, look, that's also a product of by the time that you saw, what did be like 10 the first time you saw this movie, Coy? I think I was six. I was pretty young.

So it's in the mid-90s when you're watching this movie. And by the time you really grasp who Jack Nicholson is, you're probably 15, 16, whatever when you really start to appreciate his work. So that's a lot of time removed to become even more of a star inside of that, that zeitgeist, right? To you. So Jack Nicholson is Jack Nicholson. He's the guy at the Laker Games. He's a guy doing all this stuff.

And so it's hard. And we've talked about this before when you put big movie stars into these roles. like this it's hard to separate um for me it's not that because i was definitely aware of jack nicholson at the time i saw this but he didn't have that same type of thing that he's got maybe in like late 90s or 2000 when you saw it uh as as a as a teen then um but but i thought that he adds a lot of insanity like some of the stuff that he does and the choices that he makes like even when he's like sitting at the desk after he kills jack napier and he's like who who he's just losing his mind like there's certain insanity choices that he makes that it's almost like plucked from some of the stuff he did

in one floor with the cuckoo's nest and all these roles in the way that he's able to he it is it is a really great performance it really is i definitely caught some shining nicholson in there for sure like like like the like the and i guarantee you that's probably why they tapped him for this yeah well say design wise as far as the joker i didn't love the permanent smile the way like it's different than what they did with ledgers because with those scars the way they are, he can still emote. That's the thing with the Joker. Everything is a joke to him,

but there are some serious moments where the Joker is mad, where the Joker is upset. And so production-wise, just looking at that, that might be a critique I might have on that, but I loved him readily playing with regular makeup to look like a normal dude

and try and trick people in that regard. I thought little things like that really well done. That's why all this is so like as I mentioned that the look with a permanent smile. That's why I mentioned earlier on that it's okay that they got another, they get a lot of passes in this movie and rightfully so.

One of the passes that they get is you can mess with the lore. You can mess with these things because this was this this wasn't the same type of fan base and it weren't the same type of executives making movies at that point. You know, these are people there are a lot of old school people making movies who probably didn't understand what the hell was going on with the

Batman, but here's this hot shot director did uh did beetle juice did all these movies let's get him in here fine let's get burton he's gonna do he's gonna do batman for us well superman hit maybe batman will hit for us and and you know and and that's kind of how it all went down because the look itself there's some that's why i mentioned the adam west stuff they there's a lot of adam west stuff even this thing with the but mixed as you guys mentioned before mixed with a very dark tone with it where the perfect example of that is when when napier meets with all the crime bosses and then tony whatever the guy's name is he he this silly thing, he buzzes the guy to into a skeleton as the guy burns him and he's like,

I'm glad you did. I'm glad you did. Like that whole thing is so good. But it's so stupid. Like what does that buzzer do? Like what is it? Where do you get that? And he says, he goes, where does he get these wonderful toys?

You have a buzzer. That was my thought. My thought was like, bro, you have an acid flower. You have a shocking buzzer. You have a gun with a little bang flag. And then you pull a massive reverend. Balford you use as like an anti-aircraft gun? He's got a lot of toys.

A lot of the toys. Yeah, that's that's the envy of the Joker. But the other one is Robert Wool, right? Robert Wool pops up. And who would have thought he's as Knox? He really adds a lot to this movie. He really does. He has a lot of personality to it.

And I love the idea that he's just, he's trying. So he's, he strikes out more than the worst player on like the Yankees or any of the team. He keeps going. He keeps going after Vicki throughout the entire movie. And she's just like, yeah, cut it out.

Here's a kiss on the cheek, stupid. But he keeps trying. He tries to cock block Wayne a couple times. Your friend Wayne's really screwed up, huh? And she's like, do you realize that you're probably running me back into his arms because I want to try to help him now? And all of that stuff. There was, but he was great.

And his comedic timing worked very well. And he leads us into the story inside of how no one believes that the bad is real and nobody believes of these things and how he's ballsy as hell would go up to Harvey Dent. I really wish they would have capitalized more on the Harvey Dent storyline with Billy D. Williams. I know they were probably going with that eventually.

That was the third one. That was the plan. They were building him up and then they were going to have Billy D. And that's the thing. You take an actor as amazing as Billy D and that's the thing with Harvey Dent. Super charismatic. So then when the tragedy befalls him, it is such a fall from grace.

So I hate that that never came to fruition. There's a comic book out right now. They're on issue 6 of Batman 89, and it's Batman 89's story continued, and it's Billy D. Williams' Two-face. So they actually adapted what would have been the third film into the comic with Wayans as Robin and everything. You've just sold me on a comic book,

and I've read a comic book. Yes. You've got to send me that link. I'll read that. It's incredible, too. My whole life's mission accomplished. Probably because I just watched this. But I do have a lot of questions as far as the mechanics

on how certain things work with... I love the Batman. Mobile in this one. I still love it. Yeah, that's my favorite in the flash. I love that when he's just like shields. And it all those, the way that that plays, the one question I do ever, yeah, Batman's suit though, that's the one thing.

How does he shave his balls? That's what I, that's what I, that's is he shaving his balls? Nobody knows the question to it, but I think I have an answer, gentlemen, I believe that Batman is using manscaped. I really do believe so. I believe that he is using manscaped, and I believe that this is exactly the

exactly, exactly what he's doing. And I'll tell you why. He's excited. We're excited and cheers to all you guys to 2022 and resolutions that you can actually keep this year. How about having clean and shiny bowls all year round? Our sponsors are Manscaped. They're here to save your bowls and make the ball drop. You like that into 2022.

It's the cleanest and sexiest ever. See your New Year's resolution with good intentions and join those 4 million men worldwide who trust Manscape. But you got to use the exclusive offer. Go to manscape.com. Use the code. Big thing. Appropriate. For 20% off and free shipping.

So many things I'm going to be doing. I got, I have a lot of this stuff, the nose hair stuff. I got the ear hair stuff. I don't know. Look at my grandpa. My grandpa did it.

Like wires coming out of his head. I don't want to do that. I want to be able to use the, this is what I use often. I use all this stuff, to be honest with you, shampoo, body wash,

all of it. It's a new year. It's a new me. The global leaders, and below the waist grooming. This year, take your package to the next level with performance package, 4.0, and it's got that brand new ultra-premium body wash. I love this stuff.

Grooming routine, it's not complete. You got to use the crop preserver and the crop reviver before showing off your 2022 self. This unique formulations take care of the smelliest part of your body, and it's a big boost to your confidence into the new year. To complete the set, Manscape threw in their shed travel bag and their anti-shaping boxer briefs as a free gift to keep all those goodies stored comfortably. Now, whether your resolution is to work, out more or travel to new places. You've got to be sure to travel to manscape.com for the exclusive

offer, 20% off, free shipping, but you got to use that code. Big thing. Choose it. Choose it right. And cheers to new balls in 2022. Get 20% off free shipping with that code. Big thing. Manscape.com. That's 20% off with free shipping at manscape.com. Don't forget to use that code, big thing. It's a new year. No pubs in 2022. everybody. Don't do it. Man scaped. All right. Let's bring him back. Let's bring him back. How'd you like that transition? That was great. Because we saw off guard. I was about to talk about how he can't move his neck to save his life. But I, but his bat balls are smelt. They're no chafing. Dude, you don't want, you don't want, you don't want that stick. You don't want all that hair getting tangled up with that latex thing.

You're talking about that. That's a wonderful toy, Jack, right there. A lot of stuff that's going on in this movie. I'll tell you, though, I love, love, love Mike Kane. I love, I'm loving Andy Circus. But I'll tell you what. And Jeremy Irons, but this guy, this is my favorite Alfred. Four of them. I mean, he just, he's got the light.

I'm wondering if there's anything they play around a flashpoint, because the fact that we've got one Alfred for three different Batman's is interesting. Like, I don't know if that becomes a thing. I don't know if they make a lot of dialogue about it. about it. One Alfred. Is he playing, he's playing the same Alfred for all three? Yeah. And obviously back in the 90s, they didn't care about continuity. They didn't care about multiverse stuff. But you kind of, you can't Gordon and Alfred and change your Batman. I misunderstood what you're saying. Because they, remember, in the Val Kilmer one, they,

they treat it as if that's, that's Michael Keith. He's the same Michael Keith. Yeah, but I, right. Yeah, because it doesn't make sense. Right. They still a reference to Vicki Vale at one point, but it's such a different tone and different movie that it's you're right doesn't make sense but this movie plays very well um with you've got i mean people who are watching it now and trying to put a nolan spin or a matt reeves spin on it or hell even the zack snider spin on on batman you're going to be super disappointing because that's not what this movie is as coy said and there's a lot of corny stuff there's a lot of 80 stuff but there's a lot of stuff that um i think that took big risks and and and kind of paid off and i think that there's it's the relationship with vicky

Vale and Bruce Wayne that really worked. The chemistry is great and Kim Basinger was just a fantastic choice for this role. Oh yeah. And Jack Nicholson and the Jack Palant stuff in the beginning. Because you are my number one, a guy. Like that whole, that's, I mean, how many

times does that quote at all this? I think Sam Levine quotes that when he wakes up in the morning. Jesus Christ. Yeah, he looks, he looks in the mirror and he just then he walks out of it. But I, but yeah, man. So Winston, and talk to me a little bit about some of the stuff that stood out to you in this movie,

particular scenes that you really enjoyed? What do you got? Yeah. I mean, one, I think this is probably my favorite vehicle design across all the Batman films. I never really liked the idea of the Batmobile turning like more and more tankish, not that like it doesn't have tank stuff, but like the idea of like essentially a James Bond car, but with like Bat emblems. Same thing. I think it's the best Batwing design. The fact that it just is that perfect kind of circle just with the back cutouts. It's all my favorite stuff in that regard. And I think about that all the time.

I also love the fights, even though sometimes they can be a little corny. You get a little bit of the Indiana Jones thing with the sword guy that, uh, kick to the face. You know what I'm saying? Twice. Yeah.

Yeah, there's two separate overly acromatic thugs. Yes. The dude that jumps in with a kick and they do the zoom in. Like, I don't know if y'all have seen undercover brother, but there's one point where he does a flying kick. and he's flying for like a good 10 seconds.

So the dude, you see his leg just, yeah. Undercover brother. How about the big black guy that kicks the crap out of Batman? And then, of course, he gets murdered. He instantly, Batman goes, you know what, enough of this,

and he hits him to the bell and throws him off the town. Someone can beat me and murder him. Another guy's out. You were beating me to a pulp. I'm going to grab you like a Sean Michael's move in 1994 and flip you down and watch you die. The body count of this Batman, is insane. It's high, bro. It's high. Yeah, it is. It is. He tells everybody. And he even says to the

Joker, he goes, I'm going to kill you. Yeah, like, he's not a good guy. And like, that's cool because it's Michael Keaton, but it's also like for me, not Batman to me. I think, I mean, I don't know about not a new good guy because I mean, a lot of times, like we see, we've seen, we've see people in our movies that are good guys that have to go through like John McLean, good guy, kills a lot of people. But like in the comic Batman would have gone in. and lord all the thugs out and then he would have dropped the bomb. You're saying he makes different moral choices. Doesn't mean he doesn't mean he's not a good guy because he goes there for a lot of reasons.

Matt positive guy. Right. It's all his all his look. They even Robert Robert Wolf says it. Your dude's messed up. Yeah. He'll murder you and throw you down. And as Winston said, he's not even if you are not, if you don't have.

a line in this movie, he's going to drive in, not even driving himself, he's going to remote control your extra ass and blow you up. Like that's what he's not even worth his physical time. No, he gets the extras. I mean, realistically, Batman has a tendency. If you look at like the D&D scale of what kind of character, normally Batman is lawful good. He's not going to murder anybody. He's always going to do whatever. In this case, he's more chaotic good where he's like, at first he's like, get the job done. And the minute he finds out that Jack Napier's, the same dude that killed his parents, a switch flips where he goes from,

I'm going to lightly maim you to, I don't care anymore. I'm blowing up factories and throwing people off of bell towers. If you ever had the opportunity to curse and get away with it, it was right then. And you blew it. The opportunity, he had the opportunity to go batshit.

I mean, I'm trying, Christian, you have to understand. I tried to turn the switch down. I couldn't let that one go. But there's a lot in there. But I think that he does,

I was comparing and not saying which I like better, just comparing the versions of like Bail and this Bruce Wayne, right? And Bail, his Batman was just kind of when as a kid, off the cuff, just getting angry, trying to kill Falcone, doing all this stuff. And then has to be trained by Razag Gould and does all these. And there's just so much more to the training that you get. And you see why every version of Batman is messed up.

and rightfully so. But this version, like he's, he's got a screw loose. I mean, he's a good guy, but he's got a screw loose. And you see it a couple times.

The one that stands out to me the most is not the big over the top. You want to get nuts. Let's get nuts. That, I mean, that was calculated. It's when the Joker,

by the way, getting away with things, throws a pen into a guy's neck. There's a cop that's to stand in the back going like this. Bro. Bro. There's a bunch of cops watching murder happen on the steps. And he's like dancing around.

Nobody says anything to him. And then and then, but Bruce, Bruce Wayne is standing around and just gets clipped in the arm. And he's just like, no, that right, seven of these jackets.

And it's just like, it's, it was, it's just that those little moments, those things kind of stood out to me more in this than, uh, than they had in the past. Well,

I mean, I've always liked that Bruce Wayne is the, the, the broken. mask that Batman wears. Like Batman is who he actually identifies as and Bruce is the facade. I do feel like in this iteration Michael Keaton is able

to get that deranged in a really beautiful way. I feel like we're going to get a very interesting, like the clenched fist of Robert Pattinson's going to be interesting because it feels like him fighting thugs is his therapy. Like he's a broken violent man. I don't consider Michael Keaton a broken violent man. I consider him more like pathological, psychological.

He's got more like inner demons. And I think that was going to be reflected more in the Ben Affleck stuff because we saw that bat they built where he was going to be looking at the like the entity of the bat concept in a different way. So I feel like Ben Affleck's and Keaton's Batman are the most similar to me. Because Val and George Clooney are kind of similar in that billionaire playboy element. And then bail to me is a just sociopath. Like bail doesn't relate to people.

Bale is just training and trying to fix himself. But he's got that Bateman thing going on. So they're all really different. But to me, Affleck and Keaton are the most similar in their take on what Batman is. Yeah. I think so. I certainly think so. And I would also make that argument that you said, Coy, that I think Bales specifically, I think is more Batman pretending to be Bruce. Yeah. Whereas for me, Keaton feels more Bruce, who also happens to be Batman. You know what I'm saying? To me, to me, it feels like a coping mechanism. Yeah. To me, that.

the mask feels like a coping mechanism as opposed to like I've always seen Batman as Bruce Wayne is the coping mechanism. You know what he says it? It has to do publicly. I agree. You know what he says though inside of the, that's why I think I lean with Winston where I see like this bail, bail once he's Batman just seems like that's who he is. That's who he is. That's who he's supposed to be.

As where Keaton even says it in the movie, it's a job to him, right? And he says it. It's time to go to work. It's time to go to work. And like to him, it's a job. Whereas I think for bail, that's who he, is and he's just he's putting on the facade. Because you see if you've seen

the ballerina thing. Yes. For me the ballerina thing is that is the bail moment of okay how can I use Bruce Wayne for Batman to get what he wants? Or him studying Aaron Eckhart at dinner as Batman but wearing the mask of Bruce Wayne to get into the dinner.

That's why I think because in this he really is Bruce Wayne trying to explain the other side of him because even that whole scene where he's like I'm Batman. He's trying to get it out. Like he's trying to, he's, so it is him trying to give any even, but he breaks it down. He breaks this conversation that we're having down in that scene. And he's just like, you ever wake up in

the morning and you do this and he's having this whole, he's just trying. And he's, he's failing miserly at it. And even says like to a, a, a reporter who is on the road all the time, never sleeps. And he's like, you have that person, that person is this. And she's like, no. He's, no. I forget it. I don't make it work. And it's like, it's a great scene. And it takes those. And it was the risk, I think, that you can understand studio executives at the time who may be inappropriately a lot of, not improperly.

That's not right. Right. Who are not not justified, judge people and serial tape people going the comedy guy, Mr. Mom, who's going to do this, the guy that was in, whatever TV show he was in. That guy, really? and then when you realize that because you see this is this is the brilliance of what michael keaton did he allowed other actors he opened the door for a lot of actors in that in that capacity of because you can have that conversation we were going to put jim carrie in a in a serious movie

well michael cat and keaton did a batman like how many times and how many times do you hear like when people like the reverse of this when he ledger was cast nobody thought he should be cast as a joker right right and then people started to say a few things in that side of that argument and it was yeah but everybody said that about keaton and batman and look how that played and now that's now now they're in the same category we have people said that about keaton and batman people said that about ledger and the joker let's wait to see what they can do patinson and batman man every one of them like it feels like the everton's a tradition turn over that up because christian's gonna go right back to me being on cloud alive with him

and i went at paterson for a minute oh dude patinson's gonna crush were you an anti-batsin i think so he wasn't so he was so he sat down for collider live we sat down we talked and i and roxy and i we're ringing the bell for Pattinson before he was cast before he was cast and then I that might even even be the time Winston came on before he was even in cast and I and we said like hey we want him he's and Winston's like the Twilight kid no and I said you got to watch the rover you got to watch party time where the movies called and and those are the movies you got to watch with the Safdi brothers when he did and that this kid is a great actor he's a great actor he just there's the problem is that

very similar to what we're talking about here. That's what I mean. The parallel is a lot of times you cast outside of the public perception of the actor. Because he was seen as a Knight's Tale in 10 things. And like that guy's one of the best actors of all time. Yeah, Keaton comes in and does this stuff, but uses those comic sensibilities in scenes like that.

And that's how you balance alongside Burton, this hokey with dark tones. You don't have actors that can play both sides like your Nicholson, like your Keaton, like all these people. You're not going to make this movie work. There's just master performances in this in this movie and in Kim Basinger as well and and there's just so many perform the performances and the tone in the back and forth and watching these pros these kind of legends go at it. You can you can see these moments and why and why it just plays and it's funny like I and I think that we've said this so many times about some of the movies we've watched in this rewatch series and I'm glad we're, and one of the reason I'm glad we're doing this is because I think that as you get older and you watch movies more in a different way you can appreciate them in different ways. And I had such a, I had a such, I had a stance tone on two of them.

And this one for sure where I said, okay, maybe it's in that Ramey, maybe it's a little overrated. I don't feel this movie's overrated anymore. I really don't. I think that it for the ground that it set, the tone that he was going for and everything that he really tried to put into it. I loved it. And the other one was Batman Returns. I hate that movie. I hate it.

I'm wondering. Really? I hate it. But I'm wondering. wondering, remember, I have, I refused to watch it. I haven't watched that movie in maybe 15 years. So, so I don't, why, why do you hate? Because the 1989 movie is everything that you were just saying. It's Batman mixed with Tim Burton. It's about maybe 60, 40 Batman over Burton, right? Batman returns is 80% Tim Burton and 20% Batman. So you're not a Burton fan or you don't like that it's sacrificed Batman? I just don't like, I do like, I,

Beetlejuice is one of my favorite movies of all time. Edward Sizzar Hands, I love. I love old school Burton for short. There's no doubt about it. I just, I felt that when the director does it, it's very similar what we talked about in Spider-Man, right? Sometimes Ramey overpowered Spider-Man. Got it.

And I like the tone to compliment the material more so than the material just showcases the director. I respect that. You can definitely tell once you get to returns, and I re-watched it, you know, helping Chandrew, prep last season. I don't like it as much. I'm gonna watch it as I did as a kid. I'll watch it.

I it's ironically I can I can say it's a better film than Forever and Robin, but I put both Forever and Robin above returns for me just because we're watching them. There is there is a nostalgia there that just jacks me in. We are gonna have such different rankings this show as opposed to returns. is next to Dark Night for me. But return. Oh, wow. Yeah.

No, yeah. Dark night return for me. Wow. So it's going to be interesting. Doreena loves Batman. I think Returns is like honestly one of the best superhero films. I got to,

I got to see it again. I'm not going to. I'm just telling you for, that's why I enjoy the rewatch because even watch, like I had, I really had a lot of nostalgia watching it last night. And here, and we're not talking about it enough.

The music is out of control. Oh my God. Danny. And not just Elfman, Prince, right? Prince, the, the original songs. Like all that stuff, like the party man, the stuff that he's going on. This is why. Trust. Yeah.

But this is why I keep trying to tell people how big this movie was when it came out. Because Prince, this is 1989 Prince. So Prince is Peak Prince, right? Yeah. Peak, 1988 Prince. And they got him to do the whole soundtrack. Plus, you had Danny Elfman doing the score. He had all this.

I mean, this, when I tell you. that they were for for weeks there were lines around buildings to see this movie like it was 400 mil especially at 89 that's when movies were like $6. Yeah cost like the actual ticket

Yeah 89 was that's that's massive it was huge and I think that at that point it's like you just you do want to go back into a DeLorean and tell some of these idiot producers at the time who were old school producers right and a lot of them going

get start making more of these things put them all together get turn it get batman get christopher reeve and and michael keaton in a movie do it because people forget before the avengers it was almost unheard of to get those types of movie stars in movies together and prepare them all up again right it's it was it was impossible to do um and because as a kid and i'm sure as action fans for you guys growing up how bummed are you not be able to go into a category a catalog and watch a prime Stallone and a prime Schwarzenegger together, right? It just never was going to happen back then, but that's why

the Avengers did such a thing, but to see Michael Eaton and Reeve together, that would be awesome. Apparently, they wanted to do Nicholas Cage's Superman teaming up with Keaton was the goal. Like, they wanted to bring in that Superman, and the end goal was a world's finest movie with the two of them against Lex and Joker was the goal. And

apparently the third movie was going to be Two-Face scarecrow and Joker's coming back because there was a Joker daughter, and Nicholas was going to come back as like the ghost of the Joker. The story's insane. So, like, the third movie was bananas. Yeah. I just, that's one thing I will say about this that I didn't quite love.

It happens from time to time, but the Joker is never spurned on by a love interest. You have Harley Quinn, and there's sort of a love that, but he really just abuses her. He doesn't really, so for him to be like, that's why the characters, yeah. So to be like, oh, this woman, she's so, she's perfect.

I have to do everything to get her from this. That threw me off a little bit. That's what I'm saying. You can't do that for this movie when it comes to... Adaptation translation in the 80s. Like it's an adaptation of Batman, not a translation of comic. The whole thing with Jack Napier and the, or like the Joker shouldn't have an origin story. A lot of people will say, right?

And then it's like, but he does. He does in this movie. He doesn't do this the way they did in the comics. That's not what now you can't get away with that stuff now. You can't do like it because people are, let me, you can try. And that's why I'm very curious to what's going to happen with like, say like, uncharted, which is a game that people just love, swear by and are ready going,

that's not Sully. I've said it. That's not selling along like Sully? That's Sully? It's Mark Wahlberg. Come on. That's not what he does. That's not how he is.

And when you have enough reference at that point, people are like, oh, there's a Batman movie coming out. That's cool. I'm going to watch Batman. No one was saying, I wonder if they're going to connect it to this. They were like a pocket full of comic book nerds, but they didn't give a crap because they were just happy that Batman was coming on screen. That's all it was.

So it's like, we're spoiled by it now. We're spoiled by it. We see movies like every, and