The Kristian Harloff Show - REWATCH! Batman Returns (1992)

Episode Date: January 21, 2022

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Yeah. How's it going, everybody? Welcome back to rewatch. The Batman. It's coming out soon. Soon. Talking about March. It ain't moving.

You know what it means? It means that Koi has shit sources. It's what it means. He hears it's moving. It ain't moving nowhere. That thing's coming in like a storm of comic book goodness. that we're getting ready for. Matt Reeves, Robert Patton,

and all of it. And what are we going to do? We're going to geek out. And we're going to rewatch some stuff. And we watched 89 Batman last week. And then you bastards are making me do this Batman returns. I think there'll be some things that I say that are surprising. Other things, probably not as much.

I don't know where Winston and Coy land. I just have to thank them for being my sounding board as I watched the first 15 minutes and ultimately complain to them. So I don't know where they landed. We'll see. Either way, it's going to be a lot of fun. We're going to talk about it for sure. And if you didn't do it already,

once you hit that subscribe, what I need you to do is show a little bit of class. That's all we need you to do. Just show an ounce of class and hit subscribe, hit that notification button, and you're really going to be showing some class if you do that. That's all we're about. It's classy talk here and if you subscribe,

you'll be full of class. The patron, you know about it? Well, now you do. You like these rewatches? We're going to do bonus episodes of a rewatch. Like the movies that, maybe you never thought it would be something we'd look at,

whether it's eternal sunshine of the spotless mind. Hell, Lawrence of Arabia, God knows. You know, I've never seen Citizen Kane all the way through it. Someone was like, hey, listen, you know, what you got to do for a rewatch? We'll join the Patreon and you do that shit today. A lot of stuff. Look at all that stuff going on there.

And it's pretty great. Big thing, you can do it on Apple Podcast. You can do it on Spotify. You can do it anywhere. That podcasts are found. And look at that. Look what we did for you. The great dad Williams is able to do it.

You just listen on Apple Podcasts. Scan that. shit, man. Do it. As I said, show a little. And here we go. We're going to get to get into the, what was that? Was that a little song? I would get to get again, get again, getting a bum, bum, bum, getting in. I need another espresso. All right. Here we go, everybody. It is

the big thing. It's this fucking piece of shield. What's up, everybody? Mayer's eating fish. That's what we're watching today. Mayer's Eat and Fish. It's the name of the original title of this movie. I don't know what the hell it's called.

It's nice to have. have you all here and I got a I got my crew it is it's my crew I don't know why you guys like us together so much maybe I like I like talking to these guys I'm not going to lie to you I'm not going to tell them to their faces they can hear me but I just say it was someone doing an impression of me the fuck am I talking about ladies and gentlemen it is Winston A Marshall Coy Jandrew they are here did we just see Christian have an existential crisis for three If you're watching the channel, you'd see it every day. A thousand percent.

And also, you drop you drop three. You ain't coming for me this episode. We haven't even started yet. Excuse me very little. You have cursed more in seven years. I don't even know what I'm talking about it. It doesn't matter. You have cursed more in seven years, Winston.

What does it mean? It doesn't matter. I ripped off Paddington's head today. Because he was talking shit. I said, look, Paddington. Yeah, you want a cat noise me, Paddington? I'll tell you what, you little prick. I'll rip your head off before us.

Yeah, keep going. Keep going. Who's that pussy? Right. Batman returns. It brings up the best of people. I'll tell you what, man. There's a lot of pussy I was looking for.

I thought of you immediately when that, when I came up, Winston, because I was like, that's the, that's just, dirty, filthy humor in this movie that is not for kids at all. This movie has no idea what it wants to be. And I know, look, I'm going to preface this. Now, I don't know where Coy and Winston are going to land on this movie.

I know. I read the comments last week. People, there are people who love this movie. You're going to hate me because this movie this movie stinks. It stinks so big out. It gets better. It gets better in the second half. It's watchable at least.

but you have to totally say to yourself, this is a, I understand, everyone always said how Joe Schumacher had the cartoon versions. This is why they went down the cartoon version ranked. This is a pure cartoon from the moment it starts. By the way,

Bruce Wayne, Batman is in this movie in the first 55 minutes for like eight minutes. It's not, he's not even in the movie. How dare people say that it's a Jack Nicholson movie in the last one? This guy, this, this, this penguins running around and circus clowns doing back.

flips and stupid dances and grenades going off and the cat woman falls out of a window and she's like, oh, I fell out out of a window. Now cats eat my fingers and now I have superpowers. What? Who? Stupid movie. Hey, man. Hey,

you know, I saw some haters in the comments for the last one being like, every time Winston talks, the air just gets sucks out of the room. So I'm just going to shut up and let you rain, bro. I'll let you go. You're going to, I'm telling you, if you love this movie, you will hate me. this episode. I'm not telling you that you shouldn't love it. And I understand why, by the way, as I was walking the dog last night, kind of, you know, pushing off the stink. I was, I said,

I was like, you know, I get why people love this. I bet you like Doreena, by the way, loves this movie. I bet you that she was her little Wednesday Adam's ass when she was younger and she was going out to the theater and she's, and she's watching it. And she probably just fell in love with it when she was a kid. And I get it because that goes with you. And you take that with you as you get older. So you probably have all these memories when you were a kid watching it. But if you watch this movie back for the first time or you watch this movie for the first time ever and you see this, this movie is nonsense.

It is just nonsense. And what's with Latimer from the program trying to do a Christopher Walken impression? That's why he didn't talk anymore. Second half of the movies, oh, Dad, oh, I mean, do you think she's a, what are you doing? You don't know me sound like walking. Stupid. So I liked that the first movie is from, and I didn't put this together until this rewatch back to back. I like that the first movie is about Gotham from the side of the poor looking up at the rich, and that's dealing with the criminal elements, and that's them trying to get through and get by by being criminal being the lower class.

And this is a perspective on the criminal perspective from the rich looking down at the poor of Gotham. So I really enjoyed the duality of like the wealth inequality, and I like that looking at Gotham that way was interesting. I'm finding things I enjoy about this movie. I'm like, I'm finding these things. Hey, no, no, Christian, I'm not going to let you do this. I'm not going to let you do this. It's a good movie, no, I'll agree with you. I don't think it's a good movie personally now,

watching as an adult. But there are a lot of good pros here. First of all, way more detective work. Way more detective work. Batman playing the seat, like while he's about to die, getting a CD recording, playing that for the people, looking through newspaper articles and figuring stuff out. He feel, he right away.

know something's off with the penguin. He's like, yeah, yeah, it's his parents. I hope he finds him, which he doesn't. And they acknowledge the flaws in the first film, like, Vicky just being in the cave. They like acknowledge like, hey, let's fix this. So there is, like I said, I don't, I don't hate it from start to finish.

It's just that the first 45 minutes are so bad that by the time I got into the stuff that I really, because there was, I did. My wife came in, she goes, she left. She was like, I'll watch these with you. And she was like, seven minutes. Immediately. Done.

And I said, I don't blame me on this one. I said, I really, I really don't. But as I was watching it, she came out, she came and she's like, how was it when you finished? I go, it gets better. It does get better. There's no doubt about it. It gets better.

And it's what's still there is once you accept, I mean, it's so, I mean, Michelle Fiper's phenomenal in the movie. She's phenomenal. But it's so stupid how she becomes catwoman. She just like fall out of a window. The cats start eating her. Then she starts doing back. She wrecks her apartment for some stupid reason.

And then it's like, I get it. She wants to erase what the old Selena. and Kyle is. Let me a break. And then, yeah, it's just, it's just all that's a butt. She's still easily the best villain of these first four movies. But, but I didn't understand Koi, why she wanted to be a villain. Like, it, like, that was the thing is that there's, there's stuff. And I think that I have to go over the same philosophy that I had last week is that it's the, well, this is early 90s when this movie comes out. And there's still no real big standard to hold these kind of movies to. So they're

just like this, and it was, it told you guys, my biggest concern and it's still there is that the The first Batman 89 is majority of it is Batman with a Burton spin, right? And there's a lot of Burton in there with a Burton spin. This is a Burton movie that happens to have Batman in it. You're not wrong. You're not wrong at all. I would say with Michelle with Catwoman, her objective seems actually pretty clear when she's on her path. It's just to ruin Shrek's life.

That's it. That's it. And any man that is abusive to women, like she finds the one guy in the alley. And she gets mad at her, be like, why don't you learn to sack up? It's great. It's great. It looks at the ass and does the whole thing, which is great. I just didn't love this. Like, Selena has played that timidness before. And now another no-brainer money-saving tip from Progressive. It looks like your luggage is over 50 pounds. Is there anything you can take out?

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I understand the narrative differentiation you're trying to make. But it's just that to me was super weird. And then also, yes, Undead Catwoman, that's kind of weird. That now they say it's not supernatural, blah, blah, blah. is taken from some Golden Age comics and stuff like that of a similar scene. But what the cats have? What do the cats have? They don't even show that were they like nuclear cats?

And what we? Yeah, that's what I thought. I'm bitten by an irradiated cat. She has like a seizure and like wakes up and all of a sudden. What do you mean? Like these cats going through the, through the alleys and just biting like random people, like homeless people they were laying.

And now there's like tons of cat women and cat men running around. It's like there was no explanation. for it. It was stupid. No, it's stupid. And then the idea, though, what I, then playing into the fact of the stuff that I did like, though, is once you get past that stupid crap, you know, and you have to understand that's just how she became catwoman.

And that's how the penguin is penguin, fine. Because once, because the penguin's relationship, DeVito and Michelle Fiver have phenomenal chemistry. Like, as, as the, and I wanted to see that we were working together a little more. And the fact that he gets mad at the end when he's trying, he's like, you put all out the signs. And he throws, he lets her go with the, with

their umbrella. Oh, that was great. And then their relationship, Michelle Pfeiffer and Michael Keaton, that they're essentially kind of the same kind of life. That stuff was fascinating. That was the kind of stuff that I started to really get into and then plays it at the very end. But it was just everything leading up towards it that I just, it just beat me down that I couldn't enjoy it the way that I wanted to by the time I started liking it. I agree the first act especially is rough. I do still think that Penguin and Catwoman are more interesting villains than we get in the rest of these movies. So for me, the villains are such a huge factor, especially when Batman gets so little screen time.

And I know you thought I was stretching at the beginning, but opening with the parents that mirror Thomas and Martha Wayne and having it go towards if they were let go that turns into Penguin. Whereas the opening, the last film was Batman watching these two people walked in an alley with their kid, which is the opening of his story, but from the middle class, lower middle class element. Like there's a clear use of Gotham as hierarchy of wealth structure here. And especially since the power plant is about profit and billionaires and all those things. I like that Tim Burton doesn't usually touch on those things so directly. And with Batman, he can tell more of a linear story, even in his Bertany way. I do think he got a little too much power to do whatever he wanted in the first act, where it was like, okay, we've got an hour here, and it's just circus performers and penguin stuff.

And like, you can make this a really tight hour, 40 minute movie, and it would have been a lot better. But the problem is, the first movie made so much money, he wasn't contracted. Keaton wasn't contracted, so they had a lot of wiggle in that contract. Well, I'm going to do something that I haven't really done on this show before. I'm going to compare this to Star Wars. And so what? You Star Wars? So Boba Feth, Book of Boba Fett, I think not to this extent, but suffering from the same

type of thing, right? It's like there's a lot of great stuff inside of the story itself, but some of the execution is just a bit off because everything that you mentioned, the stuff that parallels with Bruce's family, like Gotham, the idea of how the catwoman and getting them all involved, I have no issue with. It's the, it's the idea. None of these people are real. Like even though Jack Napier is a bit, is not bad, it's super cartoonish.

He's, but there's something about, I bought, I bought that him and Grissom, like he was this kind of this gangster. It's like a Dick Tracy gangster, but he was still a gangster and I bought it. And I, and they set up those rules. This is just like a cartoon that pops off. And there's no, like even, even Pee We Herman in the beginning when he's his dad, he's like the monocle. And it's like, it's like, it's the entire thing. the way it's set up and he sends him down the river and it's like I'm supposed to oh yeah I would have done the same thing to my penguin could no he's a baby yeah

comebags I'm like and then and then this movie what I will say this movie does things now like is is dark the penguin's like we're going to kill all the kids and the one guy goes killing kids isn't that a little and he's a pot there are some great moments I'm not going to say that every single thing in this movie isn't bad and I And I really think if the first 50 minutes wasn't like getting a sledgehammer to the ball bag, that I, that I would probably like this movie a lot better because the stuff with Selena and Michael Keaton or St. Elena and Bruce in Wayne Manor.

The mistletoe speeches, man. All of it. All the stuff with them is great. Even like, you know, even the end is like, Selena, you're fired. Like, it's like stupid stuff like that at the end worked. And I thought he was fine. The relationship with him and Penguin was fine. It's just, I'm telling me, this is that first 45 minutes.

It was like, oh, brutal. Christian, I got to ask you a question. Have you seen, have you seen next Friday? Have you seen all the Friday movies? Yeah, well, I've seen, I've seen the first two. Okay, so next Friday's the second one. Yeah, I know, but I haven't seen it in a long time, so I don't know how much reference I'm going to do.

First one, my neck. Exactly, right? The only reason why I ask is because there's a moment in the middle of the second one where Craig gets in a fight with Pinky, and they're fighting over the gun and all that stuff, but he's got the gun to his face. And he's still like, and you, you fire. Like, he's still firing somebody while he has a gun.

That's what it felt like when Shrek was like, Hey, Salida, you're fired. About to die, but you're fired. You know, he's dead. You know, he's dead the second Bruce takes his mask off. The second Bruce takes, you know, he's not going to, he's not going to survive. And you did forget, you did forget, though, when the penguin at the very end of the movie,

like, I couldn't remember. how he ate it, right? And I'm like, okay, here, he goes flying down and he's, and it's gruesome. Like the green blood is flying out of it. I think that is one of the main problems, and it's probably something that I'm guilty of telling myself, telling people not to do last week. And that's asking too many questions of how, right? Because there's just so much, like, why does he have green coming out?

How did he become a penguin from two human parents? Like, and this, all this stuff. Why did, why did the penguins take him? And why did they, how was he able to just control them with the mind control thing? But yet, they're putting him. Yeah. All that stuff. It's like, nothing was explained.

And she's like, well, just kind of, that's, it's the penguin. That's why. Also, penguins are chilling in the sewers. Like, that's also a thing that they're just down in the sewers. Like they said, screw the zoo. We're just going to hang down here with this guy. And it's got the same problem, Koi, that I remember in what we talked about last week where, and it was, it was not, not subtle, but it was like, we brought it up because it was a moment

that stood out like a sore thumb where Jack Nicholson throws the pen into the guy's throat and nobody really does anything, right? That happens every three minutes in this movie. Gotham is just, and at one point the mayor's like, citizens of Gotham, I know it looks like we're not doing anything, but trust us, we're doing a lot. And it's like, he's given a speech and someone just goes, thanks for the baby. And then he just scares, no cops react to the baby. No, and the clown's like, hey, look at this, look at this.

going to say, grab him. Do not let you get you out to store. This is a speech. There are cops everywhere. It's and then, and then like, it's just so over the top

with Danny DeVito and he's like, ha, ha, it's like, I think the reason I liked it as a kid is still the reason I like it as an adult is that everyone's doing a lot with their characters.

Like I really like what Keaton's doing at Batman here. I think he found his Bruce Wayne and Batman duality more in this one. I really like his talk. with Michelle Pfeiffer as Bruce Wayne feel different than his conversations as Batman. I like his like bat trance. It feels

more like methodical. Penguin is obviously, you know, Danny DeVito's going nuts and like seems to be relishing in every moment like he really got to play. Yeah. And there's nothing to me like Michelle Pfeiffer is catwoman like that. Definitely it definitely, I mean I watched this movie throughout my childhood and it's definitely like probably

detrimentally affected my perception of like what I want a woman like that performance like good God, she is perfect. Yeah, there's there's a lot lot there's a lot that works. I'm not going to lie. Like, after a while, like I'm going into it and even texting with you guys in the first 45 minutes, I'm like, oh my God, this is going to be painful. Oh, can we release the text, right? You were going at this movie.

That was five minutes in. It was five minutes in. And finally, it's settled after like, because I started to time it. Once we got to like 52 minutes, I'm like, I have just added up. Bruce Wayne Batman has like nine minutes of screen time so far. in 52 minutes. Then once that, then he starts doing a lot more. I did like the scene when, when Penguin takes over the, the Batmobile and there's, it's a little bit, he's a little more vulnerable and you don't necessarily find out how. And by, even though I like it, pretty stupid, where they're going through this entire thing where they're rewiring the whole system and they're doing that. And then it's just this dumb little thing at the end of the, that Bruce just

has to take off and he can control it again. It's like, why, why didn't they just stick that thing on the bottom? why are they spending all this time rewiring and doing all that? It's stupid. Yeah. The fact that he's what punching through a metal floor and that he could snatch it off, the thing is also very weird. Also, I imagine there's either no armor under the car or if there was,

it wouldn't have been able to attach. So like what was the point of disarmoring the car at all? And it's just, it's funny because it's, you're right, Coy, Danny DeVito is having a lot of fun with the role. What Burton directed him what he wanted to. DeVito delivers on it.

It's one of those things I feel we're having the same conversation with a lot of these movies. There's not really a bad performance, although, like I said, Latimer from the program, who I like, just doing that ridiculous accent. And like, why? Like, why? But other than that, it's like the performances are, they're good. And I just, I think that what I really liked, what I wanted to see more of,

when you had that conversation, like the Vicky Vail stuff, when, when they really got deep into, he's talking about her being a photographer and then talking to it with Alfred, like going into that and the kind of the breakdown of who he is, it's missing for like an hour. Yeah. You don't really get the stuff that really works doesn't kick in. The time you get there, you're like,

I'm exhausted. But I know, I'm telling what I will say to this for those people that are watching this right now and that are surely commenting, what I would like to know is if you saw this as a child, that if it still sticks with you that way, or did you watch it, you know, in your teenage years or in your early 20s or whenever. That's what I'm curious about because I feel that a lot of people who loved this movie as it's hard to watch it with different eyes right now.

Because I never liked this movie. It was in as a kid, so it was easier for me to, you know, continue to take a crap on it. I'm sorry, that's a good. You're good, Corey. I just, I've had a harder time rewatching these now that we've had such an abundance of. Like, I love the Nolan films. I love how we've made the post-Nolan movies have really matured in a way that feel like they're making them for all ages, not just for kids or just for adults, except for the Joker, obviously. But like most of these movies aren't made with an audience of blank in mind.

They're made as films. And people like Scorsese and whoever can argue till the cows come home. But like, these are independent of the comic books entertainment that has moral fiber and value and performances and art. artistry and writing. And like, I, I love what Danny Elfman and Tim Burton did to make this feel like its own little universe. But I do struggle to appreciate some of the choices that do alienate people. And I don't think any of this could exist today. And I think a lot of people like that. Like, I saw one hyper-aggressive comment last week, some dude, like, yelling about, like, he doesn't want Batman to be realistic. And I think that's because of these movies. He's like, I only like

Gotham, Batman, and Batman Returns. And it's like, well, I'm happy those exist for you, but the rest of us would rather most of the people get something out of these movies. And most people aren't going to get anything out of Gotham. I didn't get anything out of Gotham. No disrespect to everyone that worked hard on Gotham.

I want things to feel like it's a blend of worlds, not an alienating world. And if you hadn't grown up with returns, I think this would be very alienated. Well, this is what I like about what you just said there. You showed respect. You were nice. And we should all be nice to people. and I'm definitely being nice to you. I'll be nice to Winston.

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I can see you and so I'm not going to put you on the air until you put that down. So there you go. What's wrong? A little bitch. What happened? I had to deal with the giant all here.

What are you talking about? At least you had a chance to blow it. I know. It's just I thought we were here to talk about Batman returns, and you're just going to be, you do the Christian Petty returns is what that's shit is. Well, no, no, no, I just, I just wanted to put together two things that stunk. You know. Hey, the halftime show is going to be great, though.

That halftime show announcements got me excited. I don't know about the game, but. Okay. All I will say to the last thing we were talking about, about the, I do think that Koi kind of hits the right on the nose, and we're going to get even more of that once we get to Schumacher because he has his own stylized way of doing this and kind of leaning more towards Batman 66 and the Adam West Flair in that regard, just brought to the modern age if you really kind of look at it.

So I think that that kind of proves that there is a Batman for everyone in the same way that we said that about Spider-Man. I don't really Fs with the Toby ones quite as much. We know Koi really doesn't. I mean, we do more now because of No Way Home. home, but like for me, it was Holland. For Koi, it was Garfield. You know, so it's just, that is kind of what this evolution has become. But again, if you can make it more realistic, then it's something that we could actually believe could potentially happen. Yeah. I mean,

that's what happened. I think that's what Nolan did so well. And I think that that's what a lot of the movies have done. And it's funny, though, as much as I'm kind of going off on the movie, as I did tell you that there is a lot of stuff that they do. you that gets darker. There's some definitely darker stuff in here that I think works a lot. And it does make me nervous going into Batman Returns because just because I haven't, I probably haven't seen Batman Returns. It's got to be over 10 to 15 years, right? It has to be. So last night, I turned it on just for like five minutes after I finished this one to see. Is it a pallet cleanser or what? Because I remember seeing it in the theater and enjoying it because I remember as a kid, I just

didn't like Batman Returns. I thought it was too over the top. And I just didn't like it. But then I don't know what happened because I watched five minutes of Batman returns last night and that's next week. They give no Fs about trying to be subtle on how cheesy and ridiculous. Dude it starts off and he's just like, do you want a sandwich? she says to him. And then he and I'm like, oh no. And then he just goes, I'll get, I'll get drive-thru. I'm like, oh, that's okay. I can't watch this. And I said to myself, oh, so there is a world that next week I'm going to be talking about how I think I like Batman Returns better. I don't know yet.

I don't know yet. I got to see. But there's the stuff. It's the serious stuff in Batman Returns and the stuff that works inside of the character development that they worked on in the 89 version that did work for me in this movie. Yeah. I think you're probably going to come back and say you like returns over forever. I think it's the opposite for me and I think part of it is

again, just make your decision. Are you going to go with the more realistic thing? Which I think there was no Nolan for Burton to look at. So he was doing his own thing. You're saying it's too much. It's not consistent is what you're saying, right? Right. They were trying to find it.

And since you're trying to find it, you're not there. I make Schumacher saw it and said, I like 66. So we'll keep the better tech, things like that because we have it. Right. We're taking it back, and that's what Jim Carrey and Tommy Lee Jones. Harvey Dent is never that silly, and they make him so silly.

And the Ridler is only really that silly in the Adam West show. And in the comic books, the Ridler got silly because of Jim Carrey, but like, foundationally, the character is a lot more nemesing and a nemesing, menacing and a menacing in the way he makes his nemesing, trademark today, 2022. too. But like the way his riddles and stuff, they're a lot more violent. They're a lot more under, like your skin uncomfortable. And so what the riddler is now is an amalgamation. That's why I'm excited for Paul Dano's riddler, because that's how I see the riddler. So it's going to be really interesting to look at the Batman Forever Take compared to Tim Burton so fresh, just like it was

fresh between Batman and Batman. To me, I still enjoy this movie a little bit more than Batman 89, personally. Okay. Yeah, I'm not on that page, but I will, but I will definitely say that watching. I think that Winston is 100% right because it wasn't just Schumacher, obviously, it was the studio because I would like to see the numbers as far as box office goes on, I don't know, we'll look it up in the second here, but what this movie did as compared to the first one, because they probably thought, oh, it's, it's been three years since, I believe this came out in 92. It's been three years since the movie came out. And the first one was such a major hit. And I think Winston also nailed it before when he said, when he was talking about

Burton, three years is a lot of time to kind of soak up. Remember what that movie did in 89 and the kind of box office it did and the phenomena that it was. And then Burton's doing some more stuff in between. And it's like, okay, yeah, you're right. Look, we didn't have the contract. We got a contract now, but this is how I want to make the movie. I want to do this.

I want to do that. I want to do that. I went through my style and I want to do that. And I made you a lot of money last time. And then if it didn't make the kind of money that they thought, then they probably said, you know what, it's a little too weird. And that was the thing. So to answer that question, just real quick on these four, so the two Burton two, Schumacher,

you had 89 with the most at 411.6, forever, actually at number two with 336.6. This at number three with 266.9, and then Robin at 238.2. See, that's, well, that's what I mean. So do you, can you, let's see, can you see? That drop-off's pretty insane between 4 and 266 for a sequel. Like, I mean, 400 was astronomical, especially then. Like, no movies are making 400 million. It's interesting how we look at numbers now and it's like,

if it doesn't make 400 million in the first two weeks is the bomb because we've adjusted our all our perception. But 400 million then was insane to drop by like almost half, like 40% like that to 260. That's pretty crazy. You said 260 worldwide? I just, I did a quick search. It says 266.9. When you went, you went to Mojo? I'm looking at Mojo and it says for franchise lifetime, lifetime grows for the Dark Night, it is number one.

And that's 533, 345. And I think that's. Oh, you looked up everything, everything. I just looked at the four OGs. And so, yeah. So what I have for that. And then you're, yes, you're doing worldwide. So Batman, the original Batman did 251 worldwide.

Right? 400 from my memory 411 okay it's not it's not listing international here and then Batman forever it's not listing the international for some reason on box office mojo so either either way but you like you said significant drop off from

one to two or two to three and then people they're probably like no people didn't like the weird stuff it didn't work we got to make it lighter we got to go back to the to the Adam West kind of goofy stuff cartoonish let's bring in schumacher let's have some more fun they tried to get keaton they wanted to keaton to come back because it is in continuation with everything a lot of the characters and all that but um he was like no i'm not doing about burton but they worked together well and i think that

you're right it's just it's an inconsistent tone a lot of the times because there's nobody that's real for the first like 45 minutes of this movie that that i mean again i appreciate it having more Batman action. Yes. That was cool. But like even, and Koi, I mean, correct me from wrong here. I mean, I know that all of these villains will use different gangs to do what they need. And the penguin has used a circus before and other things and blah, blah, blah.

But even that was off putting when it's like, we just had a clown villain. And now the next dude is using clowns as his henchman. That seems like a big miss in my mind. again, the penguin has used things like this before. So I'm not going to throw the baby out with the bathwater here. It just seemed very jarring. It seems to assume. Okay, you got me.

It's been a minute, but you finally got. That was good, man. That was good. I don't even know my train of thought anymore. You broke. It doesn't matter. I see you're coming from and you're not wrong. And that's an interesting thing that continues into the next two movies.

All four of these movies have this weird, like, like henchmen gang thing where Batman's always fighting like and then Batman and Robin are fighting and Batman Robin and Backroll are fighting a myriad of henchmen in strange hijinks by the fourth and they're fighting like the Lincoln Park set and then like Blacklight Mafia like that like the one step closer music video like it gets progressively weirded that their groups are so not aligned with the actual villains but I do think that in the comic books they do tend to be more in sync with the villains like the Penguins more. of a mafioso dude he's got more like henchman right yeah well that that was the other part that

was weird to me and i get it i guess it was just burton going for it and again if you kind of look back at the old stuff there would be a lot of like bird themed stuff with things going on with him it's not that the penguin doesn't do that but yeah he really is his own version of a twisted mob boss and you sort of get that with him running for mayor and stuff like that but it's so tied to burton but all of that even like it try to go trying to go over what the motivation is for this character, right? Because at first, it's, he says, he wants to find out about his parents. And he wants to legit find out who he is. And so he's trying to go back and forth and battle with himself that he was, he was a human because he says, I'm not a, I'm not a penguin. My name is

Oswald Popapapot. And he comes in and he has the whole thing. But then after that, he starts sitting around doing the work that he's doing. And it seemed, at least from rewatching it, that he wanted to kind of stay out of it and do his own thing, do some research. And I don't know what the hell he was doing. He's like, I got an agenda. I can't be bothered with Max and Max is the one who goes because he's the crooked one who wants him to run for mayor but what was the penguin doing what was he what was he doing before that like what was he trying to do is like we know he discovered his identity so that that part we found but after that and batman drives by and he's still screwing around it looks like he wasn't he didn't was he cooking up a plan what was what was he

doing it looks like max shrek was the one who got him all crooked again because then and by the end he's like I'm out of man I'm at animal you know he's did that that whole thing and it's just It just nothing was consistent and it was all over the place. What was weird for me was the sheer horniness of the penguin. Now, I sort of get it because he's technically a 40-year-old virgin. He's been in a sewer. They say boon-pang in this. They literally say it's not just that dude.

When he goes upstairs and Catwoman just chilling, he goes, the exact pussy I was fucking far. Yeah, yeah. I was like, dude, what? You know what? My 10-year-old had walked into the room, not during that part, but like when Catwoman and Batman were fighting on the roof,

and she's watching that scene. She's like, all right, I'm going to sleep now. And then that scene popped the blade. I'm like, thank God she wasn't in there for that. Like that, like, when he's in the last villain speech where he's yelling about erogenous zones, I was like, you know, I wouldn't want to answer that question to a kid. Like, I would rather not have them ask me. Yeah, there's a lot.

There's a lot of that. It's, there's, there's, there's, there's, there's, there's a lot of adult stuff. And I think that that's probably going back to that conversation that we had earlier about Warner Brothers going, like it was, it was skewed to like there's a lot of adult humor in this. Like, like, like, we're trying, like trying to get the kids more involved because business wise kids are buying the toys. McDonald's was like a co-producer. Like McDonald's was. I thought, I thought that was on three, which is why. They wanted to be on two, and Burton was like, screw you.

And then once Burton left, they were like, okay, we're going to double down. And this is a lot of McDonald's Batman. And then by four, it was, you know, the McDonald's show. Yeah, and there was no, and we'll get into that next week. But there's, I still have my mug from three. It's dope. I'm broke. There's no, there was no, there was the Warner Brothers mishandled the property tremendously.

And I also think that because they, and we weren't in a phase where they used to sign people on the way that they do now, right? like if it was today and you knew and burton was the kind of director that he was you're like okay in in 88 when they signed him in or 87 whenever they signed them up to do it you go all right look this thing is a hit we want to sign you we're going to you're going to be contracted to do the second movie should it come you know if if it does well and we want to utilize that you got to come back and and we have the writers we're going to fall make you basically have him follow your thing but because he was in every he had every right to make the movie he wanted to make you know because he because he had the power to do so and that's

the movie he wanted to make. But it doesn't mean that we all have to like it. But I will tell you, I am shocked. I always thought, I always thought that I was, before it was doing movie talk and all that stuff. I always thought that everybody was on the same page with me. And I thought everybody hated Batman Returns. And it is not the case. I can't even tell you how many people love this movie. And last week, and I think like you, Coy, there were people in the comment section last week saying how much they loved this movie more so than 89. I respect your opinion, but it is baffling to me. I just think it's everyone's got their own, and Winston's touched on this a second ago, but like everyone has their own archetypal version of the

character. And it depends on what your entry point to the character was. So just like with Spider-Man, my entry point is going to be a mix of 60s comics and 90s comics, and that's why to me Andrew Garfield represents that. But if you got in in the 60s or 70s, or maybe even just got in through the animated series, maybe Toby's more your guy. If you got into modern comics, Tom Holland's probably your guy. And I feel like with Batman, if you hadn't read the comics or you'd only seen the Adam West show, Tim Burton's going to be like, hey, it's that thing I like,

but it's a little darker and edgier, and this is the late 80s, and things are about to get dark and edgy, because if you look at where culture was in the late 80s, it was that come down from the amazing peak of cocaine and money and wealth and awesomeness, and it was about to get really grungy and really dark, and, like, you know, things were twisting.

And I feel like it was the exact perfect time for Tim Burton to take something that was shiny and bright and, like, pizziwi, and add his darkness to it. I think the reason Batmania struck was the time, the place, the emotional tendency of the culture, everything led to Batmania. And that wasn't the case even three years later when he added so many different darker elements that was so Tim Burton. And then if you fast forward 20 years, you look at something like Dumbo, which is a different

calmer Tim Burton, that doesn't do as well because now the culture, the space, the people, we're all very different in what we're looking at our art. And then juxtaposing that, you've got someone like James Gunn making the suicide squad. He's got just as much control as Tim Burton did with the first Batman, but these aren't characters that people have a lot of access to. So you don't have three people like us with three different perspectives on Batman. You've got who is this guy, who is this guy, who is this girl? Oh, James Gunn's going to tell me his take on it.

I have no prior association. I trust this director. Let's go nuts. Make a lot of money. So I don't think Tim Burton today would get the reins of a franchise that McDonald wants to wield. I think if they wanted to do that, that's why Edgar Wright left Antman. So it's a one-of-one experience. that's happened like once in a generation.

It's just this was the first time to happen on scale. And then the sequel showed what happens when it goes to fall. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, Coy, I think you're kind of hit the nail right on the head with where was your entry point. I think what gave Burton permission, it was still very colorful because Batman's costume was more of a blue than a black.

Remember, death of the family happens in 88. So riders are kind of ramping up and starting to shoot the film and all that kind of stuff. you literally have a robin get murdered by the joker so you're given permission for this to be darker because you were literally murdering a teenager and that was by the people remember right right the phone call thing they had to call and vote and it won by a narrow margin 88 were like kill robin wow yeah let's wait when when when when burton was pitching when we actually have a sound club when burton was pitching some of this stuff he he pitched a whole bunch of ideas for penguin and there was one guy who was the only voice in the room and he was the right one and he said, do me a fellow, please. Get out of here. Get out right here, man. Shit. Yeah. But it just, that guy was fired. That guy was fired.

Yo, can we talk about the fact that he goes, Elise my nose is a crushing blood? What are you talking about? It just bites a dude's nose off. But that's the kind of stuff. Okay, so I'm glad you brought that up. That's the kind of stuff that is very similar to what we were just talking about. Then nobody's reacting to the baby getting taken. Here is Max Schrick trying to pitch this guy as the next mayor, and he bites the nose of that dude, the Tim Robbins 99-cent store guy. And then he bites the guy's nose and it gushes blood.

And people are just like, all right, let's go clean that up. And nobody is saying, hey, hey, Max, this might be a bad idea. And that's all four of the OGs. And that's why I think no one had to come in when he did. If you look at the timeline, it's actually crazy how close to George Clooney Batman, Nolan Batman is really, because it's a completely different, like, let's shake off the Gotham is apathetic to crime and makes it like Batman's trying to stop crime, not acknowledge crime.

So if you watch the, like, it's going to be so interesting when we switch from four to five, even more from two to three, because you see a zeitgeist and what comic books are. Because that movie was only a couple years before Iron Man, which led to this modern era. And it's really interesting to see this movie was 90. Blade was 98. That's only six years. And at this point, we don't even know what comic book movies are

to the point where it's like that can happen because it's just a comic movie. We're allowing mustache twirling. And then six years later, we've got Stephen Dorf and Wesley Snipes making a like thriller that turns into what I think, what the Marvel universe becomes

because it trusts its audience. Yes. Remember, though, the reason, but Blade had a step up on, and had an advantage over Batman returns because Blades playing with a very small budget and Blades playing with not a lot of expectations. It's my suicide squad thing.

It's expectation of character. Yeah, well, but even the suicide squad still has expectations inside of its DC brand. It's still in that, it's still in the, as you mentioned, the way the comic book movies are today, as opposed to six years after this movie, and there's not a lot of movies

that are around comic movies to hold standards too. I mean, even when you talk about the modern comic boom, that's not the one that is brought up, which it should be, because it was 98 or whenever it came out, where X-Men is usually the one that's brought up in 2000, right? But it was it was Blade who could show a lot of that. What Blade did was made, it made like a cool movie.

It made that cool. And a lot of people who didn't realize there was a comic book movie. But comparing that off of Batman Returns where there's like as much as I give crap to this movie, the pressure that burden is, under regardless because he's got to put he's deciding he's going to put his vision on it and he's going to make it darker and he's going to combine this bizarre take and this adult humor and he now has to prove to warner brothers and everybody else that it's going to make as much as as the first one it doesn't he took he takes a risk by doing that and ultimately i think it's why he lost the third movie he probably didn't care in the i mean payday wise he probably cared but in the long run he probably didn't care but he he did his two movies and then he walked off and did his other stuff I do think this is still like Catwoman is still why the whole time I'm watching the movie I'm waiting for more Catwoman and I do think that is a huge saving grace in the film to the point where they added that last movie movie after they rapped like there were test audiences that didn't want her to be dead so that last shot of Michelle Fiver's headlifting up and even Keaton walking down the alley was filmed like six months after rap they literally like went back to the set and the Catwoman Halliberry movie was they didn't get Michelle Pfeiffer back they rewrote it and then that movie happened years later and which is such a crazy, like, what a difference of scale.

But to me, this is why it's a little bit over the first Batman for me is because there's nothing quite in the first Batman for me that equals the power of what Michelle Pfeiffer brought. Every moment, even the demure kind of small playing at little, Selina Kyle, which does bother me, I get why they needed a duality like the Jacqueline Hyde of it that they wanted to do for the Tim Burton levels. Like I think another director wouldn't have made her as demure

to juxtapose the madness. And I think it was a bit much. But once she was Catwoman, I really enjoyed how it played with the bat cat mythology. It played with the sexuality. It played with all those things. But it never felt like we couldn't have our own Catwoman movie. And I feel like as early as 92, that was unheard of.

Like that was a character that like they really let a villain woman take away Batman's luster. And it was really interesting. And I wanted more of that. So I honestly, that's why it's a little above Batman for me. Yeah, shows you the power of Michelle Pfeiffer as an actress for sure. And, like, she, she definitely stands out. It is her movie. There's no doubt about it for the entire, the whole thing's about it.

Go ahead, Winston. Well, I was just going to say, it's interesting because you know she wasn't originally cast. It was a net bed. Yeah. She got pregnant, so they had to recast. So Michelle had auditioned originally for Vicki Vale. They said no. She auditioned again for Catwoman along a slew of other, like, superstars, like,

including Merrill Street, who they were like, now, she's too old already. She's. Like, like, all that stuff. And so, that betting gets a result. Yeah, yeah, I know. I know. It's wild that they were saying that. But, but, yeah.

But, like, what, okay, they had what? Demi Moore, Nicole Kidman, Susan Sarandon, Merrill Street, Brooke Shields, let's see, Sigourney Weaver, Jody Foster, Gina Davis. These are all women that went out for the role. And again, to come back to Michelle, who did such a phenomenal job, I agree with you, Koi. My main beef with her is just that opening. sequence and then her being apparently undead. That was the weird thing

to see her fall. Even if it was, some people were like, it's only six stories. If someone falls out of a six story building on their back. If they're not dead, they are paramount. You're going to be, there's going to be problems. But the, but the

it's more of the reasoning a lot of different reasonings, right? It's why the supernatural cats, were they supernatural? Did that happen? Like, why she starts smashing around her apartment for some reason, I guess because she's tired of her mundane life. And then

like there's it's not the way she plays the character because it's just a way I think we could have led to how she got there better. And if we if we, because you can, because once she is Catwoman, once she's doing the backflicks and she's and she's fighting them and she's doing the motivation behind

of the, that balance where we see Bruce is the one who even though he in this movie, he, he, He straps a guy to a, the champion in over the top, by the way. Throws him in the sewer and blows them up and smiles about it. So, you know, as he's. The kill count.

More bat murder. Yeah, but he's still. And then at the very end, he's like, yeah, let's just bring him in. So we didn't have that problem with the, with the, with the guy from over the top. He blew him up in a, he turned the whole Batmobile around on a stilt and said a dude that was just breathing fire that wasn't even touching the car. It's at the booster on him and set him on fire. Yeah, he's ruthless. But he, but anyway, the two of them in looking at the difference where she is just, she's all about revenge.

And when he, he changed that and the ultimate, the beginning of it was the death of his parents and to, to have revenge on the crime in the city. But he's, but he's balancing it out as he does more. And I love, and I did love the idea of like when she says, I'm tired of wearing a mask. And he's like, me too. and all that and the way that they and he even says how much how similar they are that's the stuff that's fantastic in this movie like and i and i want to be clear about that there is stuff inside of this movie that is fantastic it's just oh that whole beat up the apartment sequence was worth it for me for the hello there and the hell here sign because i love that like tim burton gives you a

visual neon of like this isn't subtle this is how i'm feeling right and like to me it worked because we had to, for the Tim Burtonness of the rest of the movie, it had to be that big of a change. But even the Nolan Anne Hathaway, the scene where she does that Christopher Reeve moment, we're like, you know, the iconic Christopher Reeve gift where he stands up and he transitions from Clark and to Superman and you see how good Reeves was as Superman.

Anne Hathaway has a really great moment where she transitions from Selena, the catwoman, in that robbery where she takes off the maid outfit. I would have loved to have had that Selena, but it wouldn't have fit in this universe, just like we got Jack Napier because that Joker needed to exist for Tim Burton's universe. So I accept those things that I don't see as the comic character, just like we talked last week about like, it's not the comics.

It's a Tim Burton comic. So I'm okay with it. But that's what it is. And you're absolutely right. That's exactly the way you have to look at it and say, and I'm okay with it. Or it just doesn't work for me. Right. And that's, I think, where I land.

I think that you're on the other side of that. Obviously, Koi. And I think you're reasoning for me, a ton. in a sense. But I think that there's just, there's just some stuff inside of the way, inside of the execution that I could have, you know, probably would have liked a little bit better. Winston? I mean, I'm feeling the same way that Koi is, and I think what had to bring me back was just remembering that. And the same way you look at every different iteration. So like ultimate Spider-Man, Green Goblin isn't a dude in a suit with a Super Sordeser.

Dude, it becomes an actual winged goblin. And instead of throwing pumpkin bombs, he's breathing fire. So it's kind of the same thing. She's not a thief. If you look in this, she's not once doing any cat burglar type stuff. She is only doing what she can to get men that abuse their power against women and to ruin Shrek's life. That's it. She blows up a Shrek department store.

She even lets the cops run. She's like, get out of here. I'll kill you. And they run off. She blows up the store. No one gets hurt. And that's her man. And she's like, come on, honey, we only get, we only get paid $300.

You're overpaid. You're overpaid. She also had actually used that whip. That was all actually Michelle Pfeiffer. Yes, it was. Yeah, like there's the motivation from her when she becomes Catwoman. I get it. Of why she's like, but I think that bringing up that Anne Hathaway, Selina Kyle thing, right,

if she was already undercover working for Max Shrek at that point and something has happened inside of it, to that led to that. I probably would have been like, okay, that makes a little bit more sense to it and and the investigation more so. It's just the two origin stories and even the origin story of the penguin just doesn't work for me. He's a little baby that gets pushed into the river and then the penguins start taking care of them. How do the penguins start taking care of them? It's just like, well, it's a Tim Burton crazy movie. That's why. Oh, okay. And that's why I'm really, like, I know we're doing this on the road to the Batman, but I'm really excited for a new generation to discover what I think of as the penguin, which I assume is what they're doing in Colin Farrell. I mean, he's getting a

his own show. I think they're going to lead into the organized crime angle. I think they're going to lead into all these. Because Gotham is the character that Batman lives in. And it looks like that's what Matt Reeves is building. And I think it's going to really show people what the comic Ridler is, the comic penguin is, the comic everything is. And it's not going to work for everyone, especially people whose entry point is Tim Burton's Batman. And that's what's amazing about this is we're living in an age where this movie was in 92. We're only in 2022. It's been 30 years and we've had this big of a revolution of character choices. But because the Batman is coming out in March doesn't mean that you can't put in your

Batman Returns Blu-ray. It didn't erase it. Stop complaining on the internet. You should do more things with your time. Find a hobby. There's a lot of beauty in the world, bro. Watch your penguin. It's fine.

But like being upset at other people getting their penguin or getting other people to explore new stuff, that's where I have a problem. I agree with you. Like I said, as I mentioned before, I know how many people love this. this movie. Do I understand it? No. Do I am I going to attack you for liking it? I don't understand it, but I, but hell no, enjoy it, love it. Like if you, if you go back and you get an enjoyment out of this and you're rewatching this and it brought in those memories that I had when I was watching 89 and that's what you had for this, that's great. What I will say is that this version,

even though I still don't love the movie, um, the gave me a, a better appreciation for both the venom movies. I don't like the movie. I don't like the movie. but you really can tell when you look at this movie and you look at the 90s superhero movies that's what venom one and two are they are an homage to those 90s superhero films that's that's that's what it is and you can feel that in it because of that and it's it's a ballsy move it's a ballsy move to go buck the system of what we're used to with the new with the way the genre is today and putting it to that throwback and it's probably why it's it's had the success that it's had in both films.

Because there are people that want that and aren't getting it. And now they are with a billion-dollar Venom franchise. Right, right. And I think, again, we're going to talk about a little later. You're talking about the Flash and you're going to get both Ben back for one last time. You'll get Keaton back for what we're assuming is one last time. And again- That's a bad for back girl, also.

Yeah, he's back. That's right. He's bad for back girl. I forgot about that. All that to be said, it further stamps. that whatever your flavor of a particular superhero world, they can all coexist. And the thing that always blows my mind,

I get it if it's not your forte, but for anybody that's a comic fan at all, we've known about multiple Earths, multiple universes, and that's the thing. They all look different. That's supposed to be kind of the point. And I think it just, to that, you can respectfully, as you've done, Christian,

be like, this is not my cup of tea. I prefer this one over. here, but they should be able to fully coexist. Of course. Every single movie that you guys, that's, I think I always, it tries me nuts when people are like, you're wrong. This is a terrible movie. It's like, no one's wrong. It's like, it's the same thing. Like, again, for that person who's writing in the comments here today, but why they loved Batman Returns, you and I just had a very different experience watching it. But you're not wrong. I don't have, I don't have your experiences when you watch it.

I don't know what it was in your life and your and your childhood and everything else, too, that you responded to it very differently. Your senses and sensibility is very different than mine. It doesn't mean you're wrong. That's, that's, and that's why I personally don't like talking about things I don't enjoy is because every single person's, every single day of their life led to a different experience of that day watching that piece of art. So it's really weird that people like to attack other people's experience of things, especially when like Winston's saying with comic books, writers have arcs and then they leave. These characters specifically in comic books are meant to be things that can be wielded by different personalities and types. Like Batman's been around for so many years.

It's impossible to have one type of Batman. And I guarantee in 15 years, maybe less, we'll have Campy Batman again for the people that want it. And that's why I don't understand the Venom hate. Because Christian brought up a good point. There is an entire market of people that want a Batman Return style movie that weren't getting it. And I think that's why I ended up doing so much press for Venom is I'm able to enjoy. the 90s movies, especially

of Venom, who's such a 90s character. Like, that character wouldn't necessarily work in the Tom Holland universe, which is why I should write Andrew Garfield, and that character works in that 90s style movie better than I think Batman does. But I can still watch Batman Returns and appreciate it because I can see what that is.

For sure. And I think that either way, you know, you look at what Burton was able to do with these two movies, he created a lot of history. And whether whether I like the movie or not, I'm never going to argue that even the penguin and Michelle Pfeiffer are iconic performances inside of the Batman franchise as a whole. There's there's no, there's no arguing that, whether you think it's goofy or weird or

it doesn't fit into your version of Batman or not, you can't argue it. I certainly can. Do I think it's ridiculous that in the middle of a speech he's chowing down on a fish and no one thinks that's weird? Yeah, I think it's stupid, but it's still, he's iconic and he made it, he, and it, and he's terrifying. He's really scary. Like he's a creepy, scary little thing. And I understood how he could become some menacing because he's,

he's even more maniacal than Joker is because he's, as he says, because he's an animal. You know, he's like he'll kill you in a heartbeat. He wants to kill kids. Like, and he's just a broken down dude.

And that's why, like, I will say, as much as I went off on the first half of the movie, the second half, if I, if someone had to tell me that I had to watch this thing again. I'd say, can I just watch

the last hour? I got it already. I understand that's fair. Like, let me watch the last hour and then I think that I review, I watched this movie in a very different life. Because the last hour, if I remember, is right around where they kid, they kidnap the Ice Princess or whatever her name is and she ends up

getting killed. And it seems to genuinely come together at that point between Bruce and Selena's romance kicking off and the penguin now that he's lost his bid for mayor is just like screw it. I'm blowing everybody up. It's less bits and more story. That's, that's what, there's a big set pieces and there's big stuff like it, but it's, it's less like, look

how quirky and kooky this is. It's like, no, this is our story now. Like, we don't really get into the story until like 53 minutes in. That's when, that's when it really starts to go. Once it's about 50, you watch, once you get to like the 53 minute mark, then you're like, oh, okay, I don't think that I'd have as much of an issue with this movie if it was just like, from that point on, like the 53 minute mark. And it's a short movie.

It's only two hours, which is crazy. They say like, that's a short movie. But compared to today, like the new, the rumors are that the Batman is going to be close to three hours, which is great. But it's still, it's crazy. 255. Is that what it is? Is it 255? Yeah.

I love Batman and I love superhero movies. God, can we please stop this trend of just going for three to go for three? Hey, man, Venom 2, 89 minutes. You got options. You want versatility. You got options. But here's the, no, don't do that. That's one thing for theme.

That's another thing for time. I would rather see Batman than Venom in a movie. So I would rather have a Batman movie that's clocking at most 120. Two, three hours. You're going to be in the detective. You're going to be exhausted in that tone for three hours. Do you know how many mysteries we've done solved and knives out in an episode of True Detective in an hour and hour a half? Get missed me with that.

I need three hours to detective work. True Detective's eight hours. True Detective takes from the top to the bottom. I want eight hours of Batman. That's why I'm getting a Gotham show. That's why I'm getting a penguin show. That's why you're giving me a setup of three hours. I want to live in it.

Yeah, I, I'm, look, I don't mind, I don't mind the idea that we're doing a long, a long one. I don't, I don't mind it. It just, like I said, that, that tone for that long can be tough. I want to suffer. Like Bruce Wayne suffers. You want to suffer. I'm excited about it. But I'm also excited, look, next week we have a, we have Batman Forever.

Then we're going to do Batman and Robin. Les Woo. Sorry about that. Oh, my God. I want to catch hands. What? I want to catch hands. I'm realizing this.

Wait, what's going on? I don't even know. Oh, man. I'm sorry. You guys noticed the tone difference in the end of our Spider-Man rewatches and the end of our Batman rewatches is Spider-Man. every one of us was like, I can't wait to see how I feel. And like the end of our Batman rewatches is like, so next week. Well, I think once we get into Nolan, though, man, like that's...

I can't wait. I hope we're back in person like for Dark Night, man. I'm pumped. I'm pumped to watch the Nolan movies again. I love those movies. And I haven't seen them in a handful. And I strongly like these movies as opposed to what the comments may say for all of our talks. But like, I think there's absolutely merit in all four of these.

It's just really interesting that we love the way we feel about these four films, and it's hard to necessarily see if they hold up as well, as opposed to the other ones. You're not wrong. I think that it, even though, like I said, even though I'm not a fan of this movie, I didn't mind. What when, like, I was going to be, I bailed, I was going to watch it on Monday or Tuesday. I bailed. I watched Darkane instead. Happy that I did it.

But then, but then going back and actually finishing it, it was, it's still a Batman movie, and you're still watching Batman. And I'm like, okay. I didn't go to bed like, oh, the one I watched that. It was, it was a beginning rough. But as I mentioned, and I'm probably playing it up a little bit more than actually how I felt by the time I got to the end because I enjoyed watching the last like hour of it. I'm not going to lie.

I'm excited to see Val Kilmer, man. I'm excited for the VK. I'm a big fan of that guy. Did you, Winston, did you watch Val yet? Not yet. Not yet. Before you watch next week, definitely watch that scene for sure. But for Winston and Koi, this was a good one.

Thank you guys so much. Really appreciate it. Once again, please go check out Patreon, everybody. I mentioned before, what I didn't mention was S-E-N-Live. It is going exclusively to Patreon. And for those people who didn't know, right now you get two episodes per month. Once we get to 250, we're only, we're at 200 patrons right now, by the way. Once we get to 250, we're going to three episodes a month.

And then once we get to 500 patrons, we're going to get to four episodes a month of S-E-N-Live. For people asking, yes, the, the, oh, Audio for S.E.N. Live will go on the podcast, their podcast feed for SCEN Live. So that will not go away. There's going to be some more rewatches. There'll be one rewatch that we do. It could be me, Winston and Coy doing an extra one. There's going to be bonus episodes. We're going to do one live episode, or whether it is SCN, excuse me, Sith Council or a big thing. And then don't forget about the podcast feed. Spotify, Apple Podcasts. I think we're pretty good in the audio. I have to tell you. Listen, you want to, you want to yell at us while you're driving and tell us how wrong we

we are about this Burton movie. You should, you should do it. Get on and check it out. But that's it, everybody. That's, that's the, that's your show. Subscribe to us. Please do that. Please subscribe to us. Tell us exactly what you think. I've been coming back, commenting back to everyone. It has been tough, but I love, I love doing it.

I think after Boba Fett, it's been, it's been tough, but I have, it takes me a little bit is what I should say. So make sure that you guys have an opportunity to comment and subscribe. but please subscribe. It is very, very, very helpful. I think that's it. So, without any further ado, we're going to hit the music. Oh, right. Wait. God! Wait, hold on. Damn it.

Where is it? Hold on. Finally.