The Kristian Harloff Show - REWATCH: Spider Man (2002) Deep Dive | The Big Thing

Episode Date: October 8, 2021

Spider-Man No Way Home will be releasing soon. There have been many rumors of who will show up in the film. Sam Raimi's trilogy of films is already making it's presence known with Alfred Molina's Doc Oc. So Kristian, Coy and Winston decided to do a full rewatch of the Spider-Man films and they begin with the 2002 Raimi film. Does it hold up? Is it better, worse?  Follow on Twitter Kristian Harloff https://bit.ly/31PePMD Mark Ellis https://bit.ly/2U1wKPa Brett Sheridan https://bit.ly/2HBltii Steph Sabraw https://bit.ly/3m0ud0z Kate Mulligan https://bit.ly/3owBneT Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey everybody, welcome back to The Big Thing. This is an exciting one. Look, we know that No Way Home, it's coming out, and it's coming out at the end of the year. And there's so many rumors about what the hell we're going to see inside of it. And if you've been watching Sith Council and listening to the rewatches we've done of the live action movies, we started talking about it. And we're like, let's do a rewatch of all the Spider-Man movies. That'll be a lot of fun and all of them because it's all relevant, which is crazy. We didn't think it would be relevant.

Oh, you just kind of watch the MCU ones. No, it could all be relevant. And I was like, I am the Spider-Man expert, right? No, but I like them. I like them a lot. And what I decided to do was I got to get some Spider-Man experts. Who better than my buddy, Winston A. Marshall, Coy, G. Andrew. We're going to be talking about Spider-Man.

Right today, we're talking about Sam Ramees, the 2002 one. It's going to be a blast. I can't wait. Let's get talking about it, ladies and gentlemen. Come on. Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen. It is the Big Thing. And I am Christian Harlow.

It's nice to see here on the Big Thing. And I am joined today for the rewatch with my good buddy, Coyceandra and Winston. A. Marshall, I didn't get a chance to put the damn thing in. They made it for me. I didn't do it. That's all good, man. I'll do it next time, I promise.

I appreciate you. I mean, not you ever on file. for awesome But awesome, Winston Marshall I get it It tracks Alexander

Anybody that I'm close to Calls me either Alex or Amar So Winston was just A industry thing Because there's already Alex Marshall in the industry So yeah

Alex Marshall Brown Do you know Alex Marshall Brown? I do not know Alex Wrenner She's a homie She's a stunning girl She's fantastic But I was like wait a second Do I know the other one?

Yeah so I'm just blaming my homie I'm sorry about I tricked you all That the entire episode Is going to be about Spider-Man or just name about my middle name. She comes in.

Like, Alex is here. No, this is going to be a lot of fun, though, because for those of you, once again, that have been listening to Sith Council and paying attention to what we've been doing, it's been a really kind of popular thing

with you guys who've been going over it, rewatching it, but we've also been tying back like how it could fit into the series and now, with the shit going down in the MCU, it's like, how is this going to tie in? And look, this is what I'm going to say

about the Ramey, well, trilogy, movies in general. I'm a Sam Ramey guy, right? I think he's, what I like about him through the Evil Dead, he does have a bit of cheese

in the way that he shoots things. It's fun cheese, but it's cheese. Even my good friend Bonnie Somerville who's in Spider-Man too, when for some reason she's just there and she runs into the camera, goes, ah! Such like a B-movie type of thing.

It works. Yeah, sometimes. Sometimes. And there is a lot of that in this movie. And all of them. In all of them. But in this one in particular, in this one in particular, there's some stuff, I mean, I love Willemdiffo. Yeah.

Love it's great. There is some laugh out loud shit in some of the stuff that he does. Ha ha ha ha ha ha. The gasp as the pumpkin glider, the ball of the glider comes in that moment, I was like, did they really? Like when they, no. And there's no way that costume gets greenlit today. No. No.

No. That Power Ranger suit does not see the letter. But I think that's part of it, though, is like, if you remember the other superhero movies coming out at the time, obviously. Obviously, you got blade, but that's a whole other can of worms. Different. Different. It's just X-Men.

Before that, it's Batman and Robin and Batman Forever. Right. And the original Superman and everything, too, right. So specifically, I was just thinking in my mind, I was like, what, Batman Forever was, what, 96? Right. Forever? Forever? Forever?

Forever? Was that the last? Batman Forever. I know Robin and Robin was later. Oh, yeah. 95. Yeah. And Robin's 98 at then 98.

Right. So we're only like four years removed from that. And it's the same kind of camp, you know? It is. Three should be filming it. Because think about it, like, you know, it released to no two means they filmed it no one. They filmed it no one.

They had to change stuff up because remember in the towers, they had the towers inside of the original trailer. But it had the same kind of hype that Batman 89 did because Spider-Man, they were trying to get a Spider-Man movie made for a while. James Cameron was working on the Spider-Roy. That script is rough. You ever read it? No, it is really bad.

It is cartoonish. Because it was written for Arnold to be Doc Ock, but it's written in Arnold's voice. Oh, wow. So you're reading this like Doc Doc Ock, you hear the Arnold. And it's just so laughable. And for some reason, Peter Parker is like really horny. Like, all the web fluid stuff is very metaphorical. Can me your horny bastard?

That's something for you. That's the James Cammar's. Do you see my arms? They go in the left. He has read it. This is the experience. It's unbelievable. Today, I will be a terminated, but with a lot of arms.

And you swing around the trees with your stuff. And I'm not kidding. Peter Parker gets bit by the spider and so does Doc Gock. Read the script. It doesn't make insane. Dude, it's that insane. Well, nonetheless, nonetheless, it didn't get to prove. I remember.

being in New York reading in like entertainment weekly or something about the script. I'm like, when are they going to do Spider-Man? Because the only other Spider-Man, which I'm sure you know about is this, it was like, was it a Japanese? Yes. It's amazing. It's really fun. No, no.

No, no. No, no. It's not a lot of us today. Bro, like the fact that like they don't have web, all of a sudden he just randomly has like a rope that he just uses to swing around and whatnot. Like it's, it is the most ridiculous, but it's so much fun to why. Have you seen it? Oh, yeah.

It's actually canon in the comics now. Really? Because of the Spider-Verce. Wow. And I remember, and the, what was the deal at? Electric Company. You used to have Spider-Man. Well, that was the only way we were getting in.

Morgan Freeman narrating Spider-Man happening. Yeah. She was from the electric company. So that was only, that was the way that we had Spider-Man. So when this movie came out, there was a lot of hype. And remember, this movie made $115 million opening weekend. I was driving back from Vegas when I heard that number. And I remember going, wow, that is amazing that number.

That was the biggest number, like, ever. Open a week. They even played an entourage. they talk about it how they were trying to aim for like Aquaman's trying to beat it. We squished the spider. I remember. And James Cameron directed it for reason because they were referenced in that script. That's not awful script.

That's absolutely right. So 115 it makes. It makes $150 million. That's a big, massive number. And it's a huge hit. Toby McGuire in this movie. And you had mentioned like there's, it's got a lot of the cheese of like the Schumacher. Schumacher, that Batman series, his Batman series, I think comes in at a cheese level of like

97% This one This movie I think is like 45 It's got a lot of cheese I put it at least at a D It's at like 60% cheese Because I was I honestly was watching it this morning

I've just been so much stuff going on And I was like all right Let me sit down and just like sit through it And Are you not a fan of it? Not anymore And I and I still has a place in my heart Because I remember when it came out

And I remember how obsessed I was with And whatnot But like the fact that it opens with like do you want to hear my story? I don't know. It's not for the faint of heart. And I'm like, that's how you open the, oh my gosh. Now, is that a bite or may?

But this is a great point, though, because you look at the way, and I think Nolan changed a lot of this stuff, right? And Nolan, Tavro. Nolan, Favro, after Nolan, of course. But, like, Nolan had made, well, no, no, no. We're going to take Batman in the real side of it. And then we're going to make it like, this is like cinema. Yeah. Right?

And then other movies like say what you want about Infinity War and all these movies. And even though there's a lot of humor in it, there's a lot. The Tony Stark stuff still. That'll that'll eat up. Yeah, people crap in the MCU. But then they're like, I love the Sam Ramey Trilch. I'm like, go back and rewatch them. Because the things you don't like about the MCU were definitely the fabric of the Sam Ray movies.

Because I rewatched it yesterday thinking about how this would be received today. Not the legacy, not the foundation, not any of those things. And I think that I definitely have a lot of warm fuzzies because I was 14 when it came out. I saw it in theaters. I lost my mind. He's my guy. Seeing Pointers around. Seeing Spider-Man posters.

That lead-up was almost part of the event. So I can't remove that experience like you're saying, the nostalgia. But watching it objectively, I don't think it would do well today. At all. And I'm curious about Dr. Strange now because of it. Well, I mean, compare it. Well, here's the thing. And I'll be honest.

When I heard that Sam Ramey was who pegged to direct this movie, I said the same thing you did. I don't know if it works today. We had that debate. I remember. We did. We talked about it for a minute. I was like, this sounds awful. Check that episode. Link to both. But here's the thing, though, too. He's also done a lot of things.

He's produced a lot of other things. And to give him, to be fair to him, that he also had a pretty big playground to play in in 2001. Because there was not this, there was no comparison. And the difference, you look at someone like Edgar Wright. Edgar Wright was signed on to do Ant Man before the MCU was the thing. He had his own movie. He was signed in.

And then once they started developing the MCU, like, well, it's like, good right. That's saying. He's like, but that's not what I want to do. Like, well, we have a direction now. Right. And he's like, but I don't want to do that. Right. And so he left.

Right. And Ramey didn't come on and go, it's one of the reasons he left the third one because they wanted to do all this stuff with it. But the MCU, they're like, dude, we got a plan. Yeah. The irony is that he left, he left a movie where they had so much studio interference. Right. And Scott Derrickson left because, you know, he had other things. Yeah.

And potentially that. And now we have Sam Ramey coming in and doing basically. Avengers 5. But, but I think, like that movie's gonna be the most studio impacted movie of any of them

because it has to conclude a little Mondavision. Like, he's literally writing and directing the movie that closes a lot of doors that just got open to phase four.

It has to. I've come around, though, on him directing it. Yeah. I'm still a little worried more. Yeah, I'm worried.

Okay. But I've come around. Because we're watching this one, I really enjoyed the fact that it was by itself. That was my favorite thing watching this one. I wasn't going like,

I wonder if that woman giving the lecture is going to be blankety blank. Am I looking for Easterer? Instead, I was like, what a movie. It was nice. The funny thing is, is I got caught in my own trap, but we're always trying to find that stuff. So, like, when he gets bit by the spider in this one at the beginning, they're talking about all the different spiders and what they can do. And Peter goes, oh, did you know that some spiders can camouflage?

I'm like, is that a Miles reference? And I'm like, wait, Miles wasn't invented yet. Yeah. Miles only dropped in 2011. So I was like... Maybe Miles was inspired by that scene. I thought about that. I was like, maybe that's what actually ended up happening.

By the way, what's the actor, the teacher, by the way, is I remember him. Oh, that black dude. I remember. That weird growl voice. But he's like, he's so serious. And like, but I remember in the theater thinking he's like, we're going to have a talk about why people. Yeah, he talks, Tony.

Why we should listen? I'm like, taking it easy guy. The delivery is so specific. It's strange. He's just, he's just so like, we're going to have a conversation. And you never see him again. They're just like, they're like, dude, that guy, he was supposed to be smiling. Instead, we cast Tony Todd's brother and he's very intense.

It was so intense. That's why I love that the fact that they almost did like its own kind of like Spider-Verse version of getting J.B. smooth for like the newer. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Which he was great. He was great. He's really good in that one. Like, so that's a type of humor to me that kind of work. But I will say this about the movie because I was going into it, remember him because I've said it.

The fans have given me shit about it. I think that basically what we've just been saying here is that I, people always talk about how they think Spider-Man too is like the greatest Spider-Man movie. I don't feel that way, right? A lot of people keep saying that's the best superhero movie. And I'm like, I'm going to go, I mean, I'm looking forward to the real thick. I know. I'm looking forward to watching it again because what I will say is going back to watch the first one. I'm going, all right, well, there's a lot of cheese.

And there is. Yeah. I had a lot of fun watching this movie this time around. And I don't know if it was the same thing. Like when I talked about, I talked about the Clone Wars and how I watched Clone Wars a little differently. And my daughter wanted to watch a Spider-Rour. Man movie. And so I took out the first Tom Holland one. And she sees the box and she goes, but Iron Man's on this. And I'm like, she's like, but this is, he's already Spider-Man.

She's like, I want to see how he becomes Spider-Man. I go, well, I haven't done that with this one. He's like, she's like, I don't want to watch that one. And so I was like, well, what about? And I was thinking of myself, my God, that Garfield one. So I show her this one. She's like, let's watch that one. And she, there was some stuff in it like that she was like, she didn't like, she didn't, she's, I just have a good kid. And, like, and, like, like, she's, I just have a good kid. And like she did not like when Harry, not Harry, Norman Osborne died. Yeah. Because the first thing she said, she's like, but that's Harry's dad.

Aw, it's a good kid. She's just a good kid. Right. But watching the whole thing, you know, and I was like, yeah, but he's a bad man. She's like, and again, scumbag guy. I'm like, he's a bad man. She's like, but he didn't deserve to die. And I'm like, oh, my God.

I'm like, my kid. I'm like, my kid. Your wife must be the nicest, because this doesn't. track. This doesn't... How did this happen? I have no idea. I was telling him the other day,

like just off the course where we were talking, and I mentioned this with Josh and Roxy. It was National Daughter's Day last week. And so she goes, so my daughter, it's like, you know, honey, it's National Daughters Day. She goes, shouldn't just be Women's Day? She's like, everybody's a daughter. And I'm like, what an incredible game.

Dude, he's brilliant, right? Bro. Write a book. Get her out a book. She's ready writing a book. There it is. Most kids are like, hey, can I do this? Can I watch TV?

She's like, can I write my book? I'm like, I'm like, yes. I'm like, I'm busy. I've got pages to. I'm like, tell me when you get your deal so I can just retire. I'm just going to retire. So my interesting take, rewatching it was that I really enjoyed it. It was a B plus for me on rewatch.

Like I tried to be objective. I tried to remove myself from it. But I really found myself enjoying the texture of it in that we don't have movies that feel complete or resolved or like tangible film anymore. It felt like a movie. Like the actors felt like they were

in their own universe. Everything, having Strom in there and not having set up stuff. That brief exoskeleton moment there was no story expectations. Exactly. There was box off expectations.

Yeah, it was a summer blockbuster, but that was it. So like the exoskeleton scene, my brain was like, it's gonna be spider slayers. And it could have been, but it didn't have to be them.

And it's kind of nice to go back to a time when that can be the movie. And that's what I hope DC does. I like if DC started making movies that were like it could connect, it might not. And that's what I feel like they're edging towards. Sure. And this felt like a bygone era of like,

that finished and I'm happy with it. Right. Well, you know what I think that Ramey did also is that Ramey was able to do his version of Spider-Man where you're not going to be able to get away with that today. Because, like, for example, this Spider-Man is not the Spider-Man we know. This is a mutant. This is a mutant. He shoots Spider-Web's out of his arm.

Again, referencing my daughter. And I was like, yeah, you know, honey, he can't do that in the other ones. He builds him. She's like, well, he should just, if he's a spider, he should have it in his arms. That's not how it works, child. Also, he gets rid of the science and ingenuity. I hated that.

I hate that. We literally had him. He had the photography that didn't feel as impactful. I did enjoy that it's a love letter to New York. That's been missing harshly since. I really love that Spider-Man and New York are like the same thing. Like to me, that's such a part of the character. And they touched on that in Homecoming, but they didn't really live in it.

And then his lack of scientific prowess, once he leaves school, it's like, well, and like, that's Peter Parker. But without the webbing, like, you don't have the, Is he going to run out? Is it this? Is it that? And that's a huge part of the character to me. A thousand percent.

I think that was something that always was a big turnoff because one of the things, and what I love specifically about like far from home, that last moment where he does, that feeling that he's kind of becoming the new Tony, that ingenuity that's there is what makes him special. It's not the spider powers. Right. You know, it's none of it's literally that he is on par with Reed and Tony and Shuri and all that.

Like he's maybe not right up there, but he's pretty... He's in that conversation. No, I agree. I like... My personal favorite Spider-Man is Holland. I mean, he's my... I think because the not just... I think they're all great actors.

I think they all did a fantastic job. I just think that everything that I remember does Spider-Man is everything you guys are talking about, and I think that they captured that inside of it. However, what I'll say about this, what I really liked is a relationship between Peter and Ben in this. Yes, yeah, you need that. What an amazing...

performance as the uncle because that was to me like it's devastating like when when he when he goes in there and he sees and he sees the the guy come out and you know you know the whole story if you're a spider man fan you watch it and he's laying there after they had this conversation because you you think about it all the time like arguments you get into people you say something you don't mean and then god forbid something happens the last thing you say you always think about that kind of stuff well it's funny that you bring that up because i agree with you that that that was a moment that really brought me in i think the flip side of it was me thinking. And this is just me getting older now.

So he gets scammed by a dude. He only gets the $100. He doesn't get the $3,000. He's supposed to get. Dude comes in with a gun, steals the money, starts running towards him. He's like,

you could have stopped that guy. I was like, bitch, first of all, you paid me less than a fraction of what you would promise me. He said, well, this motherfucker had a gun.

Right the fuck, I'm going to joke. Oh, yeah, no stop dog. Don't take all that money from the asshole. Like, are you fucking kidding me? Yeah.

No one knows that he has a spiked him apart. No, bitch. put the gun in my mouth and that would have been the end of it. Like, it's not. Right. Well, I mean, he could have dodged it. I mean, but the guy doesn't know that. Yeah. That's true. Well, I mean, what I, and I, but I do like that scene and I like, what I liked, what I liked about what Toby McGuire did is Toby McGuire played a bit of a,

like, always had a dark side. Yes. Because even in that moment, right, where. Yeah, he gets, he relishes in it. There's a moment of like, I deserved. It goes a little too far in the third when he's dancing on pianos, but like, but we'll get to that. We'll get to that. We'll get It's a choice. We'll get it to it eventually. But in this one, I thought it was a good balance, right? And I thought there was that, there were those kind of moments where even when he's like,

come on, Gabby. And he does it. It's like that, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was cartooning. It was, there was a lot of Saturday morning cartoon stuff into it that I was cool with this, this ride around because I think the fact that I know that you're going to see some of this tie in. I'm very curious of how Ramey's Spider-Man, Spider-Man, Spider-Man, and then the other Garfield. And I wonder how it's all going to play in and how this tone is going to play.

I talked about this. Unreal Rejects where I think that the tone of the different Spider-Man's might be the hardest thing for them to capture, much like Endgame and Infinity War where they're bringing in 20 different tones into one movie, and they did an amazing job. I don't know, however, if audiences are going to be ready for realizing just how different tonally Andrew Garfield

is, realizing just how different tonally Tobin Gwaior is, because you're going to see it so much clearer when they're next to each other, if they're playing it authentically. That was the one thing that always kind of kicked in for me, to be honest with you. While I agree that Holland is my favorite Spider-Man, it's because I thought that you kind of had the idea where Toby understood the assignment as far as Peter Parker. But I don't think did very well as Spider-Man as far as, just totally because Spider-Man is always so,

he's running his mouth and doing all that kind of stuff. You see it in spurts. Exactly. Yeah. So I think Garfield was the best in-suit, Spider-Man. I agree. I agree. I agree.

So that's why I love Holland so much because you get that nerdy side of Peter Parker so much better. because I feel like Garfield's Peter Parker is too cool for school and he needs to kind of be like for him he puts the mask on the confidence comes right he can say the things he wants to say off and that's what Garfield almost captured but like you said the skateboarding scene and stuff like and we'll talk about that when we get there but I think rewatching Spider-Man one Toby actually is my least favorite either Peter Parker or Spider-Man because I feel like his Peter Parker isn't likable and his Spider-Man isn't necessarily

different enough whereas Andrew Garfield is too likable and then his Spider-Man is awesome. And then Tom Holland has the best balance of both, but it's still not quite, you're right. I think that one of the main things that I can agree with on that is that his motivation is, I mean, and that's the point of Spider-Man,

right? The first was, as Ben tells him, was great power, great responsibility. But all of his motivation, and as a teenage boy would do, is a girl.

Yeah. The whole thing is all about, is all about Mary Jane. So, or not Mary Jane. Yeah, Mary Jane. So,

I was like, Gwen, Mary Jane. But Mary Jane. Don't worry, the studio heads did that too. And, Hirsten Dunst. Yeah, and that, which is interesting, too, because it's Gwen that he's with, when he's younger,

and it's Mary Jane later, and they switch, it's another thing that they switched up in the rain. And the bridge sequence and everything else, like they tied, the bridge is so tied to Gwen. Oh, right, right, right. And they made that, Kirste's Mary Jane.

They also, the Goblin is tied to Gwen. What's interesting is Fincher wanted to make a Spider-Man movie about the night when Stacey died for the first movie. It was, after Cameron passed, it became a Fincher vehicle. And he was going to do, the opening credits tell the whole origin

and then the night when Stacey died was his story because David Fincher's a dark bleeper. I don't know if we can spread on the show. So David Fincher... Winston already. Winston did him all for us. Fincher's a dog motherfucker. Fincher being who he is is going to make that movie.

So they were actually going to do a throw Gwen off and make that Spider-Man's origin through the Fincher power. And then I think they kept some of that. I think that like maybe they have the storyboards of shit. I think it's a mix of A, we've already talked about how the cheese is kind of there. They can go dark, but they're not going to go that dark.

Yeah. what I mean. And then I think the other part of it, too, is if you remember, obviously, we're just coming off of the 90s with X-Men the Animated Series, Spider-Man the Animated Series, and how popular those were, hence why they kind of got greenlit straight into films. Yes. We were following him with Mary Jane. Yeah. And so I think that if you're connecting the dots for those kids that maybe didn't necessarily grow up on the comics, they grew up on the animated series, then got into the comic. They may not know who Gwen Stacy is properly. That's fair. So you jump right into Mary Jane. But besides that, though, it goes back.

to what we were talking about earlier, and that is that there were no story expectations at the time, and there was no way to do comic book movies. People forget when you had Iron Man, now that everything kind of connects into it, and you got, oh, well, that's the way it was, and you put things together, and you still play around with stuff,

but the most part, you stick to what the lore is, right? Right. Back then, in 2001, there wasn't the big boom. X-Men Shore, Blade Shores, but it wasn't the big boom that it is now with comic movies and the business that it was. It was like, oh, this could be something really, huge. What's really cool? Well, what if you could see the meeting. What if this

time, it's not Gwen Stacy, no one's going to care. We'll make it marry Jane instead. And then the bridge thing, that's a lot of fun. We'll put her in that situation. This thing. And what if he shoots webs? It's not a thing that he makes this time. It's this. Yeah, who cares? It's not, it's not, there was no Twitter. There was no Twitter so there wasn't Twitter. That's a long

fan letter. You got to mail it in. You do that thing today. Oh, Twitter shut you down. What's crazy is they actually built and shot web shooter shots. You can actually see Toby and wire with web shooters in some frames. Like there's actually Tobin-Muire web shooters. So that was decided that late on.

They actually filmed with him with the web shooter. So it was a last-minute decision and that changed the whole lore. But what I think is most interesting is so to defend the Toby, now that I've said my piece that's going to get me hate in the comments, I think the Toby's Spider-Man has the best world. I think the supporting cast, I think the environment. I think the love of New York. Tobies is the best. I don't want to interrupt you, but your coffee is condensating under your phone.

I appreciate you. As I had my first phone swim two months ago, I appreciate you. So I think Toby has the first the best world. I think Garfield has the best Spider-Man. I think Holland has the best Peter. And I think that's why each of them feels so different. And why will be so interesting to see them all together. And I therefore think that we're going to have some really interesting moments

when people are going to realize that Toby, I think, doesn't quite land like people remember he does. Because he's, I mean, he's Molly's game, dude. Like, he's an intense dude. He's a scary guy. Like, you don't talk to him McGuire in the street. So, like, I don't think that translates when you've got a real Spider-Man on screen. No disrespect. Toby, don't help me down on screen.

I know. I know what you're saying, though. And I think that if you look at the Harry's, Osbourne stuff and all of that. I mean, I think there's a lot of great stuff that happens in this movie. Like, you know, the way that they're both born at the same time, very similar, kind of like the Vader and when the twins are born and then Vader's born, this is the same thing that happens in this movie.

And speaking of Star Wars, that this movie was the movie, Matrix was the movie that came out that overshadowed Phantom Menace. Yeah. This is the movie that overshadowed Attack of the Clones. Because Attack of the Clones, everybody was talking about, okay, here comes. this relationship now with Padmay and Anakin is like, wouldn't and terrible, like no chemistry, even though they were dating in real life.

And then you get Dunst and McGuire light up the screen together. One best kiss. All anybody was ever talking about. I mean, that kiss is iconic. Well, everybody was trying to replicate it. The fact that it was such a big deal that became a story point in the second movie to be like, let me see if I actually still feel something for baby Jameson,

and I don't because you're not Spider-Man. And I love that they set up the Harry Osborne, Mary Jane thing, like the comics in the Silver Age. So that's straight from the comic books. And the comic books, Gwen Stacey, MJ, Harry, they all like double date. So once they're in college, the four of them are like the party kids. So he grows up, and the reason he falls for Gwen is she's also a science girl. She's intelligent.

She's that girl. So that barry falls for Gwen, you said. No, no, no. I'm sorry. Peter falls for Gwen because of science. Like they fall in love intelligently, which is what I love about the character. And she happens to be a stunner and the daughter of a police chief. And then Mary Jane only self-actual.

realizes when Gwen dies. She becomes a better person. Once Gwen's loss, she actually stops partying, but she's dating Harry at the time, but she sees what Gwen was and tries to be a better person because of Gwen.

Because of that. So without that, it feels... So I have two questions for you. Because you know this stuff, like probably the back of your hand. Too well. So first of all,

Elizabeth Banks plays Gwen Stacey. Elizabeth Banks plays Betty Brand. Which is his first crush in Amazing Spider-Man 2. Okay. So that's... Oh, God, who is it? I just went over this.

It's, uh, Bryce, Dallas Howard plays Gwen Stacey and Spider-Stan 3. There it is. They died a redhead blonde and a blonde red. It's a choice. Yeah. Well, that was the first one. I can't remember the second question I had, but that was the first one because they,

oh, and the other question I had is what I thought was an interesting choice. And maybe it's part also. Does Mary Jane come from a bad family in the comics? Okay. And that's a big part of why she's a party girl. And that's dichotomy is what's great about the characters. But without Gwen, I feel like you don't get that dichotomy. You just feel like, oh, Mary Jane's interestingish.

And they hinted that with Harry. They hint it like the party stuff. but we didn't get the time to breathe, but again, this is a unprecedented film. O2, we don't do this stuff yet. And introducing Joe Manginello, who comes in his flash. Who I wanted to play Craven, because how ironic would that be? If he came back as Craven, right? Because it would have been like another Spidey cast?

Yeah, it would have been wild. Well, so does he, and in the comics, who is he dating Mary Jane or Gwen? In the comics, he doesn't really date anyone, but he's like, he's got a thing for MJ sometimes, but only because she's hot. And he eventually plays into the whole Venom story. Yeah, he eventually becomes a little bit of them. See, I know some shit? Yeah.

Yeah, he joins the military because he loves him. He loves Spider-Man. So he hates Peter, love Spider-Man. It's a beautiful dichotomy. But he joins the military to be more like his hero, Spider-Man, and he loses his legs, and then the military lobotomizes venom and makes him into a suit where he has his legs back, and it's Agent Venom. So there's no venom in this one, but there is Flash, and he has that fight.

The fight, and even the stuff, like, and what I really like, that's silly, cheesy scene, but it's fun, when he catches all the stuff, the fact that they really did that. The fact that's an actual take. Really? Oh, yeah. It was like, it's deep. But they finally got it. And so when he catches that,

There's a lot of stuff. That's like an act. He actually did it. And like probably explains why his eyes like because he's exhausted. No matter. No matter. That's two in the morning. You know he's been there all day. He threw it down afterwards. He's like,

he's like, I'm playing poker. He's like, I put money on it. Leo, he caught it one other time and got so excited. Fuck yeah. Dude, dude, he didn't have me. He goes, fuck. So then at this time he's like,

and you could see it in his eyes when he catches it. Both of them, they go, oh, I did it. finish the take and then they probably think they'll fuck to come out. That was it. Martini, we're out. We're done. But it was all that stuff.

And I think that the fight scene led to that. And it was cool how the spiky senses. And I, even the, again, the cheesy stuff that worked for me is when he punches and he looks, he goes, whoa. He goes, huh. Yeah, yeah. It's him, like, recognized and understanding it and playing with the camera work. And that, that was the stuff to me that Ramey's style worked very well with. Yeah.

You know? And it was just certain things. I'm like, Will him to fall when he, like, gets up. He breaks to the glass. There's some really ridiculous stuff going on. And why does he automatically have like Goblin Glider poses? Like as soon as he's like, I've got the power to glide. Yeah.

Like that's what a weird choice. I love it. Back to formula. That's so great. Apparently he did all of his own stunts or like 90% of his own stunts. That's actually him gliding around and like obviously on a sweet step. You cannot say. The one thing you cannot say about the performance is that he was phoning in it.

No. Not at all. No. He was saying. And that's what I'm so excited for for No Way Home is is Defoe. Yeah. I think, I mean, I'm excited for Malina, obviously. To be real with you, I know people love Molina and what he did with Doc Haq,

but for me, it was always the, out of all of the villains. He set it up. He said it up. It's so good, man. It's funny for me, it's Hayden Church, and he literally doesn't get talked about. Like, my favorite one is the one that, like, oh, right, he was in that. Because there was 75 people in that movie. That movie's like, hey, what if every villain shows like.

But we got that coming, and no way home. We're going to be balancing a Spiderverse and a Sinister 6, and we get the, like. But MCU has shown that they know that they know how to do that. Right. They try to do it in the third. and there was no structure to it. But this one, the structure is there. The reasoning, the idea of the insanity of what the formula does,

because this isn't a man. The same thing happens to Doc Ock as well. But Osborne is not a, like, evil dude. Yeah. He's just a determined businessman that gets this stuff into his head, and he turns into a madman. And there is that stuff. I did like the idea of the fact that he almost,

he looks at Peter like the son that he wanted. Yeah, that's one of the best dynamics in the film, is the father's son relationship. Because that's very much from the comic books is he wanted a son like Peter and Peter wanted a father figure and Harry wanted a friend so it's this beautiful love triangle

And Harry also wanted his father And that's the other thing that's so interesting about it is that even Harry sees it And that's what makes in two as well When the reveal happens of oh my God Peter You're Spider-Man It's like A he loved you like a father Yeah you know what I'm saying

B that was my father And C what the fuck He wanted you more than he wanted me So it just builds his hate It makes sense which is why I thought that maybe that was going to be the main focus, is that instead of New Goblin, he would have gone to taking up the green mantle himself, whatever else.

But obviously they just went their own direction. They want more toys, man. It can't be the same toy. Well, before we get into, we have a lot to talk about with this movie. There's tons of stuff that I think that worked, it didn't work, and we're going to talk about all of it. But you're talking about something that works. Ladies and gentlemen, butcher box, I have been talking about it,

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Log on to butcherbox.com slash trivia to claim this deal. I've got the link in the description. It's no joke. Go ahead Winston. Dude, if anybody was following me on Instagram and when I was doing Whole 30 during the pandemic, all of that food that y'all were seeing me, I was using butcher. Box to do. It's so.

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I'm going to try all of it. I just like, I fell in love. When they told me about Butcher Box when they said, butcher box, and I was like, well, you got me at meats. So let's see. And then they're like, and then they send it over. And I was expecting because I've gotten the boxes before where they, they sent you a lot, well, they sometimes people send in stuff.

It's like, you get like, there's like stuff on the side that you're never going to use. And I'm like, oh, yeah, yeah. And I'm like, I'm like, honey, we struck your rich. And I'm like, I'm going through. And she's like, what's going on out there? And there were two boxes. And one of them was for Brett. And I really, it took everything in me.

To have that stay for Brett. I felt like the sopranos where it's just like, I'm like, I'm going to take my taste. But like, at one point, I was like, I'm not giving this guy anything. I was like, give him the box, you idiot. But everybody again. How many minutes in until we got Sopranos reference? It took a little longer and I expected. I really expected that in the first half.

Every time. Every time. Well, this just worked out. Satriali's, they can't do it the way butcher box was. I'll tell you right. Anyway, jumping back in. Guys, but go, go to the link in the description, get that. I promise you.

After you get it, you're going to, you will be thanking me. This is not one of those things. We're just like, oh, I don't know, no, no, I don't like to shave my bulls. You have to shave your balls first of all. That's why you need to get manscape. Respect. Okay. So we can't mention.

very briefly. Like, I was the one telling y'all, too, when we were doing Bluetooth, I was like, look, trust me, do that. We're talking about the manscape. You gotta do the manscape, get, but trust me on Butcherbox, man. Like, I am a step.

It's not a joke. Like, what the fuck you think this is? Like, go get it. Meatballs. That's what I'm saying. All right, look, jumping back into Spider-Man, we're going into this 2002, Sam Ramey version,

set all these records. It did so much for the industry in general. And it paved the way for a lot of movies and the way things are done. and Sam Ramey obviously did, I mean, this is three movies that this guy directed at first Spider-Man, and the first one set it off,

and there were those moments of this love triangle that happens, and it's, and it also, what I really liked about it was, it's because Peter can't get out of his own way. And he can't, all he's got to do is make the move. And even Harry tells him, you never made a move, Pete. Yeah. So what do you want me to do? Because they have a relationship where he wasn't,

he wasn't scumbagging him. He didn't tell him that he was going after. That was the only scumbus. thing about it, but, but you're right. He saw it, he kind of, well, okay. He should have told him, he should have said, dude, if you don't make your move, I'm going to. He should have done that, but he also, if I remember correctly,

he does scumbag him a little bit in the museum where he's like, do you know that the spiders can camouflage? Oh, right. Then he goes, oh, yeah. He literally jays, yeah. He does still his line. I'm like, motherfucker fuck. Yeah, he stole his line.

I mean, he's a rich kid. And like, it just attracts for the characterization. I think it was great because it developed both characters simultaneously. Yeah. But I think the biggest thing that, like I said, the world is what works best for me. Like the world itself, like this is the best bugle. This is the best.

I mean, obviously it's the best Jonah because we're bringing Joe about. I mean, that's the character of the movie for me. Like, J.K. Simmons is Jonah Jameson. So answer me this. Mr. Mr. Expert. Yeah. And I stopped. I didn't want it to sound condescending.

I stopped that at the end. It reads a lot of comic books. You're freaking geek. No, no, no. Flash Thompson over here. Mr. Expert. I'm asking you this because I don't understand what you think. And I don't think you know yet.

J. Jonah James. Okay. So it would make sense that that J. Jonah Jameson pops in through the multiverse. But it looks like we're getting him as if he's already part of this. I think he's the first multiversal character. I think far from home takes place after Loki. Okay. I think you think he showed up.

Interesting. I think the first character we've met from another universe we've already met, and that's J.K. Simmons is Jonah. I think Jonah is from Sam Ramey's universe. And I think we're going to see that that retroactively actually kicked off phase four before we even knew it. Before we knew it. I think Mysterio did know about total divers,

and he was, he was fooling them by knowing more than he seen. Because he mentions it. Yeah. He mentions it. I think that far from him, we're going to watch back and go like, whoa,

they twist on a twist on a twist. So I think, I think JK's been there. Okay. In theory, we already have, if you think about it, um,

you've watched Loki, yeah? Yes. Okay. So if you think about it, but by the, by the pure nature of them traveling through time. Yeah.

you have created variance. That's kind of what, you know, the ancient one was talking about when Bruce was like, I need to borrow this, and she was like, nah. Right. Like you can't, you don't get it. You do that.

You're going to start branching this off. So I wouldn't be surprised, especially considering they had said, far from home is an epilogue to the Infinity saga. So kind of the idea that we're pushing this forward, we've already started to create variance. It's just we got more of an explanation

and a deep dive into it via Loki. So I don't actually disagree with that thing. I didn't think about that, but that's actually a really smart point. All right. So it also takes place five years after the snap for some people. You know what I mean? The chronology of it. And Loki is a show out of time.

So we don't know when that could be. And we don't know when that threshold happens in canon. And Wanda is happening almost immediately after as well. Have you seen that side by side? No. There's a thing side by side where the last episode of Loki, it's like 41 minutes is when that threshold happens. And in Wanda Vision, 41 minutes is,

when like the thing crosses over and start something. So they think that those two events happen simultaneously. Which would make sense if she's using chaos magic to crack everything open. It's going to cause some problems. And he's over here screwing with the timeline at the same time. That would make sense. It's interesting. How it all going to play out because if we talked about what we were saying in the beginning of this show here about how this ties and how it's going to start.

You just opened that up with the J.J.J. and J.J. Jonas thing. The question is now, how does you think, do you guys believe that it's going to tie in this movie is going to tie in to, to the movies. Now, the goblin. So obviously that the goblin's going to show up and it's going to split into instead of him going off and having this battle with Parker the way we see it,

something's going to happen where it starts to tie in with all the Spider-Man, right? Is that kind of is-ish? I got a weird theory. You got one? My weird theory is that Tom Holland goes into Sam Ramee's universe, not that they come into Tom Hollins.

I don't think those characters come into the MCU. I think he goes into their movies. No, but I think we're going to see Tom popping up In that movie. Yeah, but I don't think they're going to come to us until we meet Tom and Andrew and it's going to be at this big moment where the universe is all collide. What I'm saying is I don't, but if he goes into that, it's almost like back to the future, right? Right.

So he goes into that moment. He's going to interrupt that timeline. Yeah. Where instead of the moment where Peter winds up killing Harry or killing Norman, he stops it. And he gets, he now gets involved with it. And there's got to be that moment, the three of them by the garbage can, right? It must be. If they don't do that, we've failed.

Yeah, they're definitely going to do. But I'm curious just from the standpoint of, you know, obviously Norman dies. Mm-hmm. But then Doc Ock, the whole hello Peter, obviously, they could have been screwing with us because it's not inside a clean cut. It might be to Toby. You know what I'm saying? But that was the whole thing is that like Norman would have to have already been dead when Doc Ock finds out that Toby is. Right.

Because he doesn't turn into Doc Ock until after Norman's death. Right, exactly. So that's the only thing that's a little confusing about those two different timelines. Those, I think they're, the Tom's popping into different worlds not, because that would make it cleaner. So I think Dr. Strange, when the multiverse implodes, he gets jettisoned and that causes him to least the time. It's going to be crazy. Well, but I think already what's about to, because I haven't watched this morning's what if yet. Neither have.

But I think part of it, too, is that we are already getting the inkling that that strange supreme in that what if episode is the one that's doing this spell. because this Dr. Strange you see in the trailer is very off. There's this weird kind of sinister undertone. You think this is the other guy? I think that's the Strange Supreme that we saw in the What If? And so with that... How do they explain that though

if you have to the casual viewer, right? Because I did see that episode. I'm like three or four behind, but I saw that episode. And if the casual viewer, if that was the reason why, and they're like, oh yeah, there's another Dr. Strains.

And you're like, what? But you got to watch what if to figure it out. I would go so far as to say it'll be very similar to like the way comics would do where you'd be like, oh, and here comes Dormamo. And, hey, for Spidey fans, if you don't know Dormomu, go look at it.

Amazing Notre number 62. I think it's kind of a similar thing, where they'll do enough of an intro of this Doctor Strange. That doesn't make you seem off. Yeah, but not enough that it's actually enjoyable. I think you're going to need to not be casual. I think that, like, casual fans are going to get enough. So what I think, I think you'll be okay.

I think because, remember, regardless of the fact that we're in the MCU, there's still trilogies. If you just watched the three Iron Man films, you're going to be a little lost when it's like, hey, why is he having PTSD from the battle in New York? Right. But you can really just watch the three Iron Man films or the three Captain America films and for the most part be fine.

Sure. I think you're going to get the same thing where it's going to be a fuller story if you have kept up with everything. Yeah. But I think they're going to give us an independent movie where they explain who the villain is and why this is happening and things will be okay. So I'm slightly, I slightly disagree in that. I think it's going to be more like endgame where like if you haven't watched a bunch

of movies, end games, like who's that guy? What's a raccoon doing here? Like all that stuff. And I think we might have moments for people that aren't in vested are going to be like... And at that point, the MCU says, sorry, it's our TV show. We made a billion dollars.

That's our TV show, yeah. I think that's part of it. But again, you could just watch the four Avenger films and be okay. Right. Like, you know what I say? I don't think you can watch Doctor Strange too without having seen Loki and Wanda Vision.

Because you need the Scarlet Witch builds. And I think at this point, Kevin Feige is just going to be like, hey, we got shows. That's our show. It's how it all ties in. You know what I mean? Like, it's like you can watch a football game

and watch the next football game, but you don't care about the Super Bowl unless you, like, Well, they can risk that now. Yeah, they can risk that now because they couldn't have done that because, you know, too inside baseball, if you were, right? But that they're asking. We own baseball now.

More or less. They want, they want you to be inside baseball now. Yeah. That's the point of it. They want everybody to be in someone. And that's the fun of us because we can explain it. Like,

what, what they've done is they've made. You guys can. You can explain it. But what they've done is they've basically do what Harry did. You're like, hey, did you guys know this? Can you explain? You know, he just told me that spiders can camouflage.

All of you out there are my Mary Jane. Yeah, we're going to be edited out of this whole episode. It's going to be Christian monologging about the things he heard from us. We're not recording. This is, I'm just taking notes, and I'm going to do a single episode of myself. I sound so smart. Christian is going to come and have a skybound put, like, Photoshop over our faces. Wait, wait, wait, watch, watch, watch this.

Hold on wait. So, guys, just to let you know, welcome to the big thing. Jay, Jonah Jameson, I believe that he's actually going to be our first character in the multiverse. I came up with this theory the other. day and I was thinking about it. Yeah, I have red hair. All right. It's just a butcher box logo.

Like bouncing around my face. Like butcher box is just like bouncing right here. It's like butcher box. You're a filet. Don't you say I'm fucking chicken. It's been fun. He's not coming back for episode two. He's not coming back.

I didn't say nothing. Oh, man. I didn't say nothing. I totally like it. We lost where we were because that's saving. I was like, oh, it's so good. Speaking of Jay Jonah,

that was the one thing that I did appreciate and I think that they kept true to the comics, Jake and Jonah's a scumbag but he's honorable as shit. Him defending Peter? He would not say his name.

He would not out of his point. I love that moment. I was so glad you brought that up. That was one of my favorite to the whole thing when he comes in where he goes, where it's pocket. Or he's like,

who's the photographer. Right, right. He's like, I don't know. He's like, I don't know who he is because he's not like, he mails him. That would change your opinion

on him dramatically. And the fact that he doesn't rat, he's not a rat. No. You won't give him up. That means you go, okay, he's, so there's,

there's a lot in, this is a shell. And that's why you get, like, solo Jonah comics. Like, every so often they'll just do a Jonah issue. And you're like, this guy's incredible

because he hates Spider-Man for honorable-ish reasons, but he's such a good dude while being a monster. He really is. So that, that's going to be so important with whatever they do

with far from home, or no way home. And who's better than Jay-K. Simmons to do that. Like, what a perfect. But they've got to make sure they establish that. Otherwise, it's going to kind of castrate the new Jonah. You can't just be a cartoon character who just chomps on cigars and hates Spider-Man.

There's got to be stuff too because that moment was, I'm so glad you brought it up. That's my favorite moments of the entire movie. I remember just when I watched it, I go, yeah, man, 100%. And the funny thing is it went over my head as a kid, but watching it, I agree with you. That was a pause, the movie. Holy shit. And that's one of the things that, like you said. That's why they have Jonah comics.

That's why he's so involved. It's one of this weird things where he is a prick. But he also looks at Peter. Like there's so many father figures in Peter's life. And I know Jonah drives him up the fucking wall. But him, Connors, Osborne, all of these men have kind of plugged in as a surrogate dad. And they're just shitty for different reasons. Yeah.

So, but you know, like. It's like an episode of Ted Lassow, just a lot of father issues. Some bad extra work in this, though. Oh, man. That girl's the country. He goes, it's Spider-Man. That was almost, that was almost as bad as the Dark Night Exeter that goes, no more dead cops. Like every superhero movie needs one bad.

But that girl, though, is, is Ramey's fault. Is it? Yeah. I mean, he focuses right in on her and he goes, and it's like, that's not like someone in the back, like doing one of these things. Like, overacting the thing. This is, this is something. He put a close up on her. Yeah.

And it's probably some daughter or something to. I like Lucy Lawless, though. That was fun. What was she in that? She was the one that was like. extra arms, that sounds hot. Like the punk girl? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's aena warrior princess, man. My wife did say this, though. She's like, how late 90s, early 2000 is that Macy Gray is singing. Got to know, right? I thought the same thing. But, but, um, um, well, damn. Extra work, Lucy Lawless, Sam, Amy. Yeah, I'm getting there.

The push in on extras, the weird one. There is. Okay, okay, got you. So with half. Also, I told you this before, the Rosemary. time breakfast on. You get that shit. So good.

Clearly, I actually get a bunch of bucks. This episode is truly sponsored by book for them. It really is. The only thing that I didn't really like is when they're talking to the New Yorkers, if it had been like in an expose for the news, it literally felt it pulled me out of the movie

where it was just like, hey man, what do you think about Spider-Man? I love New York. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, if you don't, if you don't do that, but you keep the, like, where you're at, it reminds me of the end of Avengers where all the different people are doing interviews,

He was like Captain America saved my life. Right, right. Well, it was also the same thing at the end. It was like, you miss the Spidey, you miss what all. You guys, well, okay, I thought you would love that. Of course I did. But it's still, but it's still a- -prudity.

This is New York. And I said to my, I said to my daughter, I go, nobody messes New York, right? But it's cheesy as hell and it's unnecessary. And it only gets more than the second one that all the sudden is like, first thing that everyone loves. First they lift him up like Jesus. Yeah, when Doc Ock comes in and he goes,

Hey, you did you leave him alone? Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Well, and again, my daughter, who is, is an angel, is like, she's just when she was really disturbed when the kids were going to, like, his choice of save the kids. Yeah. And she's like, dad, what's he going to do? And I'm like, and I'm like, you got to watch. She's like, tell me.

She's like, I can't handle it. What is so difficult hearing stories about your kid is that, again, the way you talk about her and the way she acts, she is so grown. and then I forget that she is a child. She's nine years old. So she said, like, Dad, what is he going to do?

The kids are married, like, you need to tell me now. And then when he's just falling, she's just like going like this. And after he stays their boat, she goes, that's the moment you're supposed to have.

And that's how Sam Ramee, you can tell Sam Ramey knows Spider-Man. That scene is him knowing Spider-Man more than some other directors have. But it's just a matter of his sensibilities conflicting with, like, Spidey's an archetype. Great call.

So it's Spidey's archetype is how you interpret him. Sam Ramey's a bit cheesier on his spidey than I am. So he gets that silver age flavor. He gets that 60s and 70s Spider-Man. Whereas I like the 2000 Spider-Man, which is really interesting because they kept trying to make Ultimate Spider-Man. And did you notice the, you read Ultimate Spider-Man, right?

You know how that they always show the Einstein poster in his bedroom? That's in Sam Ramees because this was in 2002. So they literally modeled his bedroom after Ultimate Spider-Man. It's a wonderful point. It's fascinating. No matter what you think about Sam Ramey, if you thought it was his style. is too cheesy for it. You go back, it's dated.

You cannot argue that he doesn't care about Spider-Man. He knows what he's talking about. Like there's, he definitely loved the character. And I would be mad at myself if I didn't mention my favorite wrestler of all time. Oh, saw he's ready. Boosey's ready.

I love it. And it's just like, Hey, freak show, I got you for three minutes. It's so good. Well, it's also just, it's so funny also just seeing how society had evolved in that regard in that, like, Peter's, like, big taunt to him was like, did your husband give you that?

Oh, yeah, I was like, whoa. It's funny, it's funny that you say that because I felt the same thing. I'm like, you, that's not a line. You can't say that. 2002 Spider-Man's bit of a prick? No, you're not going to get that. But, like, you know, you remember what his, I'm sure you know, but like, I know this, who the original name was of the wrestler is Crusher Hogan.

Yeah, yeah. Because the reason I know that is. Hulk was supposed to be in it? No, no, no, no. The name of the rest. In the comics. It was Crusher Hogan. Because my daughter, again, she listened to,

I think it's one of the main reasons she wanted to She listened to, there's like an audio version of it And Stan Lee does all the Oh, that's incredible. And so I've listened to this a thousand times And he goes, and the wrestler was Crusher Hogan And it's like, it's, and he's, it's so good. Because with great power comes great responsibility.

I love that man. It's the whole, he narrates the whole thing. I love the Macy Gray Stanley cameo because it's just as short as the X-Men cameo where Stanley is just on the beach. Like in the beginning, they didn't have him say anything. It was just like Stanley existing.

And this one was like, I grab a child and rescue. And then that's it. I love that little blip. It's pretty funny because like all of us just haven't been in the industry. It's like watching that person that like, like you go back and watch the fourth episode of community.

And I'm just like some dude that clearly doesn't know where the fuck. Oh man. I just walk back and forth, back and food because that was the direction. You're an extra. They don't give a shit. You don't have agency. Crossing.

Crossing. Cross there. But if you give a story to the extras, it's kind of that weird thing where it's just like, like, bro. Same thing with Stan Lee, where at first he's just on the beach, he's like, oh, man, there's a Spider-Man.

And then all of a sudden he's like, and then there was this crazy thing, and I was a FedEx delivery guy, and I don't even know what the fuck happened. It was great. I mean, like, to see him in. He's the watcher, man. He's everywhere that's important.

That's true. But there was a lot, I think, that we covered inside of this. That wrestling scene we talked about in death because it leads to Ben and all that in his transformation. His relationship with Aunt May, who, you know,

I thought she, She was great. I agree. And very different from Marissa Tomey, who I think is a, I liked the change up with Marissa Tomey and making M.A. Like, you know, it is. Well, because he's younger and it'd be kind of strange. And it always was kind of strange.

And he's like, I'm 15. And my aunt is always having a heart attack. Like, it's a played out thing, whereas Aunt Bay allows for a certain amount of, like, fun and Tony and, like, all those things. And he's going to have the first, like, Aunt May knows who he is. Like, we're going to live in a world where Tom Holland is exposed to Aunt May. And that's good to have a different dynamic. Yeah, I'm so.

curious on how they're going to make it all play because watching this movie back again, I did, yeah, I want to really enjoy myself, to be honest, like, I think because I went in knowing the Ramey Cheese is part of it. It's like, it's like there's, and, but there are some, there are some, like, there are serious moments and there are those moments where I think Tom, uh, Tom McGuire does a great job. Even, even, even, hold on, sorry about that, but like, I, but I, but I, I think that what I, the way I said that that's just some moments, but I think some moments that he does a great job of being emotional.

I agree. Bringing in that those moments. Well, across the board in the sense that, like, I feel like the camp part that they put in tends to be a lot of the actual superheroing. Yeah. But then when you look at moments, like, honestly, it's a pretty dark moment, but when Norman realizes that Peter, Spider-Man, he takes off from Thanksgiving. Yeah.

And he's having that conversation with Harry by the elevator. And he's like, get what you want to ever and just move on. Like, it's one of those things where it's like, holy shit. We're seeing that he really is kind of that creep in that regard. And so the stuff messing with his brain. But also exactly, the stuff messing with his brain, but the fact that you look again at just like that ugly dynamic sometimes we have with like our fathers and stuff like our parents that we have and whatnot and all that.

Then Mary Jane being like way to defend me. Like you know what I mean? And they all and they come from broken families. Right. Yeah. The two of them, right? All three technically is what? Peter doesn't even have his parents.

Peter doesn't have his parents. But he had loving people that raised him where he was the one that had loving families. people, they don't. They're missing that in their lives. Mary Jane's got her aunt, much like Peter does. Aunt Anna is the one that introduces Aunt May to Peter. Like that's the dynamic there, but her parents are talked about way later in the comics as being abusive, but they jumpstart that here, which is a great

dynamic. And then Harry doesn't have family really. But it also then explains, which is, again, just great character work in that regard. So I give Ramey credit for that. By establishing that we all, like a lot of people know, that that stuff is generational. So if you see it in your household, then you find a partner that is also that

way. And if you think about it, Harry's not very good, to her, you know. Why didn't you wear the black dress? Exactly. Why didn't you wear the black one? It's like, because this one's nice. Yeah. And by the way, people, like, react to things, like, kind of shrug the shoulders.

Like, he turns people in his skeletons. Like, he comes down there. And it was a great moment. It was a lot of fun. But, like, you know, just seeing him how all that worked out. Because I remember the Green Goblin as a kid. And it wasn't the costume. He was, it was, it wasn't a costume, right?

It was like he, his body was. It depends on the iteration. Yeah, it's generally a costume, but it's like a goblin, like latex. Like, it looks way cooler. Okay. And I think that's what they're going to do in No Way Home. It's a little more, uh, think, think like Scarecrow. Okay, because they can't go with that.

No, no, no, it's like a latex really terrifying. They built it for Sam Rameys. They actually built a hat and everything. Yeah, like an animatronic. Why do they use it? Because there was too cosper. It wasn't cost-effective. Like they kept tearing itself apart.

Yeah, they have different technology now and make it look a lot better because, like, it looks, it looks so goofy. The mask. And he comes walking out, he throws those punches, and he looks, it's so good. But the thing you're thinking of is ultimate, ultimate Spider-Man, he's like the Hulk. He turns into a full-size goblin, so you might be thinking of that. And that's kind of- I'm always thinking of the jester one where he's got like that. Yeah, that's a mask.

Right, right, exactly. So, like, again, if you're thinking to the animated series, again, is the easiest iteration to think about. But exactly that. It was very weird that his mouth was just stuck open. Yeah. Just, ah. And you can see his eyes and his mouth move in the goblin. Here's my biggest flaw in plot.

Okay. he gasses Spider-Man. He doesn't mean. He's the whole time trying to figure out who he is. He's got him passed out. He didn't take his mask up. He didn't take his mask off. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The whole time he's trying to, it's like, he's just laying there.

He had him gas. Why didn't he take his mask? Carried him around. My guess is, my only guess is, because I agree with you, is that at the time, remember, he's just trying to turn him to his side. Yeah. So maybe he's like, I don't give a shit who you are now because I'm just trying to, like, you know, get you to come with me.

This guy is a ruthless businessman. And he's going to find out. Every manipulation tactic. Because he would say, you would have him to go, if he doesn't, if he doesn't join me, I'm going to hunt him down. And he figures it out later. And he looks to me and goes, back to formula. So you're a big Spidey fan like I am. Yeah.

What did you? I've never felt like Toby McGuire was actually Peter Parker. No. I felt like Andrew Garfield was. I certainly think Tom Holland is. But even rewatching this, I kept being like, oh, that's a guy with brown hair. Like, it never felt like Peter to me. And people love him. That's the one thing.

He has emotional moments that. work, but for the most part, there is, in the way that we say, Defoe did not phone it in, and Kirsten Dunst and James Franco did not phone, I feel like Toby's phoning it in the whole time. I feel like he's acting not Spider-Manning. If that makes it, like, I feel like he likes the, I think he read the script. He wanted to work at Sam Ramey, and he liked the concept, but I feel like he never cared about Spider-Man.

And I think our bar has moved. Like Hugh Jackman is Wolverine. Ryan Reynolds is Deadpool. So now I expect that of my Spider-Man. It feels, I agree with you. It feels very much like he just read. Okay, nerd. Yeah.

What do nerds do? And with his like, I'm just going to talk. I'm just going to talk. Can I take your picture for the yearbook? Yeah. It almost feels like a cliche. You're so beautiful. Like it's very phoned in in that regard.

Like I don't feel depth. I feel depth with everyone else. And I do in those emotional moments. He pops in the moments where he's being a dick. That's what I'm saying is Molly's game. Yes, he does. And that's not Spider-Man. Spider-Man feels bad when he's a dick

because he has some angry tendencies. He shouldn't feel more. empowered. And instead, it's like the Big Bang Theory. It's a bunch of people pretending to be nerds that are profiting off of our culture instead of actually being nerds. It's like community is written by nerds for nerds about nerds. Fired at Big Bang. And Big Bang. I feel the same. I let him have it. I let him have it. You agree. Like Big Bang theory is written by not nerds about nerds to profit off them and they're punching down at them. Whereas communities like this is how we are and it's embodying them. I feel like Tobin Waiers the Big Bang Theory of Peter Park.

Wow. That's actually a really good fucking man. It bothers me, man. Hot take. Yeah, well, either way. So how do you feel then him coming back? I'm excited for the fans. Like, I'm excited for the moment.

It's going to be great. But that's not. I hope he dies. Yeah. I think he's going to get Uncle Bend. I think they might make that the moment that makes Spider-Man a little stronger. If they go into the Spider-Verse, though,

because that was supposed to be that the Peter Parker that died that Miles first met, if they, if Toby makes the adjustment to be more of that Spider-Man, I actually think it'll be fine. I think he could too. Like he's got the emotionality. I think he can too. And I think he's also very aware. I mean, his acting obviously, like he's always been good.

He's playing cards, man. Yeah, where's he been? He's producing a lot. He's got more money than God. Like he said. That's what I meant. Which is probably exactly why he's going to do this. Because he wanted to do the fourth movie.

He was signed up to do the fourth movie. So to come back and do it. And Garfield, I agree with you. I think Garfield was a great Spider-Man. He's never got a script. I liked the first movie. We'll get into it. The second movie's terrible.

I love their dynamic in the second. Fine, but the movie's terrible. I mean, we'll get there. We'll get there. But I do feel like Garfield was a much better Spider-Man. It just got really, really inundated with Sony trying to sell stuff. And it was really, and it was really soon. Right.

And they were going back into the origin. But we'll get into that for sure, but this going into this one. Well, when the three dropped in 09? Three dropped in 07. No, no, no, it was 09 because I was, are you sure? Because I. Spider-Man 3? I've, I think it was 07.

Are you, okay. You might be right. I just, I know, I know. I know why I know. Okay. Okay, okay. The reason why I'm confused is because I went to, I was studying abroad in Japan in 2009, and there was a bunch of movies I missed, and that was a movie I actually never saw in theaters. I only saw Spider-Man 3 because everybody kept limping it. It was 07. What? What the hell is 10? I graduated by 6. That's why I knew. It's why I knew it was my first year out of high school. I told the joke about it. We both have landmark moments.

I had told him about it the comedy story. I was one of the last one of the last one. I knew I missed Star Trek because, again, 0-9, I was in Japan. But maybe it was just that, like, being in college, we didn't really have a car to get off campus. So I was just kind of like, you know what? It's not that big of a deal. Like, if everybody says it's this bad, I just won't go see it.

But it was like 2010 when Amazing! Amazing Spider-Man was like. 11. So, like, four years later, so quick. It was really close. And it wasn't only that it was 2007 to 2011. It was, there was a lot of drama with the 2004. That was, I mean, that movie was going to happen. That movie was, and the deal was supposed to run out.

That's what, we'll get into all this when we get into it. But like the reason why they were able to make that movie is because the deal ran out with Ramey. So, but Ramey makes these three movies. He starts with this first one. This movie does so much business, so much hype. People can't. I mean, the turnaround from the first movie was 2002. The second movie was 2004.

So that's quick. Most movies at that time were like three-year shots. Minimal. The two years, the Star Wars, remember when Star Wars was doing it for the new trilogy, they had to like put that shit into motion like two years, you know? And some people now look back and maybe they should have waited three. But like the 2002 to 2004 and then 2007, which was three years, but the two years in between to get Spider-Man 1 to transfer into Spider-Man 2

and looking what they did well in this movie also with Spider-Man, I thought, was that balance of what he had to do with being a hero and then still having to try to have his life and how tired he was and the things. I like that stuff that they did there. I thought that, I thought that's so important to the character because Spider-Man's one of those rare heroes that's as important as Peter as he is a Spider-Man.

Like that mask comes off. That's why there's so many images of like the half-face, half-face him walking away from the dumpster with the suit in the background, which they do well and two. There's so much about that exhaustion for his character that I do feel like Toby captures.

But when he's not in a state of emotional distress, I don't feel like he's Spider-Bad. So it's like, I need Toby to be at a nine or I'm like, I'm not buying it. And that's a tricky feeling. I have a thousand percent agree with you. and I think that that to me was the problem. It's very clear that Toby didn't grow up like that.

It's always kind of been the guy. And so that is the difference. So his neutral doesn't work. And I love it in the experience of it. Like, do you remember, what was your theatrical experience? Because I lost my mind watching this in theaters.

Because it was the first of its own thing. I absolutely loved it. I think I saw this movie a few times in the theater myself. And I was more excited about attack of the clones for obvious reasons. Right. I wound up seeing and enjoying Spider-Man more.

Yeah. When I saw the theory of the experience of it, because I think the difference was, we had already had gotten Phantom Menace. It was kind of at that point, three years had passed, and you're like, eh,

and with this movie, this is the first time, that was what Toby has, that nobody else will have. This is the first real Spider-Man on live action. Yeah, that felt like an event. This is also one of the first summer event movies

that I can remember, for me, not in life, I know Jaws, etc. But, like, as a teenager, this really changed my summer. Like, this was everything. This was a massive, massive, massive, of film and it took and like I said it was not an easy feat to take the the stuff away from

Star Wars and that's what this movie did and it's like this was for Batman 89 was for Batman this movie was for Spider-Man it was absolutely that and and I think that the difference was that Toby McGuire was never questioned for being cast though like you might look now but like the way Michael Keaton was yeah oh no I'm nearly that I mean Michael Keaton I think Spider-Man fans were just happy to be there yeah what wasn't he wasn't Keaton the comedian at the time Well, he was a comedian. I mean, he started in stand-up comedy, but he was known for, you know, gung-ho and Mr. Mom and all this other stuff.

He wasn't known for being bad. I mean, Bill Murray, though, was one of the main people that they were looking at. Nobody cared. But it was because it was Michael Keaton. They're like, Michael Keaton. And look how that turned out. Right. Never really got that.

You never heard that with Toby McGuire. But I always feel like, like, Spider-Man fans are just happy to be here. Like, I think they were just like, we're getting a movie. Like, it's cool. Toby's here. Like, fine. We're not going to be mad at it. It didn't throw it off to where it was like,

that guy doesn't fit. Yeah. You know? I don't feel like we got Spider-Man fan entitlement until Garfield. I think the entitlement came because we had three good toby's or two and a half good toby. Yeah, and it was just, and it was also because, well,

and I think that what Tom Holland did, though, out of the three of them was he's the only one that was to me the closest than age. Yeah. Because McGuire's like 25 or 26 at the time. He's pretty old. And so was Garfield. Garfield, what? I just saw the thing. I want to say,

like, Toby was like 27. Yeah. What? Toby was like 27. And he looks at Garfield was like 25 They keep getting younger But Garfield though Garfield though looks

Younger Right Yeah they look younger each movie Except Tom Holland actually like is younger That's the funniest But my girlfriend was just talking about Because like what the deer Evan Hanson thing That's like bro you're supposed to be 16

You look damn to afford it Uh huh It's kind of the same with They just throw a polo on them They're like just a teenager Yeah But like Toby same thing Toby looked like he was almost in his 30s

Yeah But he's supposed to play high school And maybe this is being an adult. Andrew Garfield was 28 when he played. Wow. He looked younger to me. He looked too old, but not 10 years too old. I probably got in reverse.

I think you were right. I think Toby McGuire was 25 then. Then Garfield must have been 28, and then Tom Holland was 21. Either way. I think he was 19, playing 16, and I think I bought it. And you buy it. And I think that it all plays out. But either way, the most exciting part of all of this is because, you know,

what it used to be is, yeah, but you're never going to see these guys. You're never going to be able to see them all together. And because of the multiverse, it's crazy. You can't end. It's going to play into when we get to it, the multiverse, which I'm, I mean, into the Spider-Verse, which I am fascinated about because I don't know how they're going to tie the animated. And you're convinced.

I think it's coming in. I don't know in what context. I don't know if they're going to be a full-on who-framed Roger Rabbit moment where there's going to be an animated Spider-Man, but I guarantee that ties in. I would venture a guess that the only Spider-Man that comes in animated might be Spider-Ham. If there's a came-a-a-a-comy. I love that idea.

Because you can do that Roger Rabbit thing. You think that's going to lose audience members, though? Yeah. You're putting in Spider-Ham? You don't think so? Think about how many animated sequences are in Loki. There's a lot of animation mixed with Loki. Not everybody.

Loki was a hit with people who watched it on Disney Plus. Sure. But when you venture off of Disney Plus into the series, you're throwing it into the mainstream. Right. Like Disney Plus, I know, I get it's mainstream, but it's also what we always talk about is if you sign up for Disney Plus, whether it's for Marvel, Star Wars, whatever.

You're not paying anything extra than you would have when it comes on. You either watch it or you don't, right? My wife doesn't watch Loki, okay? But if I take it to the movie theater to watch a movie, and I'll tell you right now that if Spider-Ham shows up, my wife is out. But I'll tell you this. I love Spider-Him.

I love them in the movie. But I'll venture this guest, though. I don't think it's going to be a situation where Spider-Ham is like then throughout the film and all the Spider-Men are rolling together. It's literally like if we're going through these different universes, Spider-Ham shows up, be like, hey, what are you doing here? And then, like, that's it. Almost like Howard the Duck.

I could see a multiverse, like when Dr. Strange is throwing Tom Holland through multiverses. I could see a full-on Peter B. Parker, though. I can see it, like, flash by. But I could see that. I could also literally see, that's how we also get a live-action miles, that they've just kept the casting super quiet. And then we, because we've already seen Aaron in his uncle Aaron. Yeah, the best, dude, that cameo is the best most.

That's actually better than Deadpool meta. Yes, because Donald is going to show up in this? I think Miles is going to show up in this. I think Miles shows. I wouldn't be surprised. If not, if not in it, I can also see it maybe as a post-credit scene. Did you see my tweet yesterday about like this? So this basically opens up Spider-Man 299 movie, a Miles movie, a Scarlet Spider-Spider movie, a Spider-Man 4 from Sam Ramey, a Spider-Man 3 from Andrew Garfield. This opens up everything, and Sony wants that.

It's a great point. It opens up Spider-Gwin. So first of all, I didn't think about that. So let's tie it, let's tie it back into this, first of all, this movie. So if, if Toby McGuire does not die, Spider-Man 4 could happen. And with Ramey Bebush. back in the fold. That's my thought. Is that partially maybe part of his deal? Is, look, I never got to make Spider-Man 4.

And now I'll do Dr. Strange. And if we tie it all in and make it work inside the MCU, then I want to do my four with Toby. I think this is exactly what got Sony to come back to the table. I think that Feigey was like, all right, I got to show my hand right now. I got an idea. This is what we want to do.

We're opening up the multiverse for Marvel in general, right? We need Spider-Man. But we obviously know this is something that for you. So you've already set it up into the Spider-verse. If you let us play and we can all play in the sandbox together, you can have ad-infant Spider-Man that you want to do that aren't MCU, and we just have Holland and we occasionally see some of them coming through. I would love to be part of that meeting where the guys,

you see that the Sony execs are like, do you understand any of that? He just said we could do more Spider-Man. I understand. I didn't understand a damn word of it, but it's funny. Well, let him do his thing and, you know, we'll profit. That's what happened, and that's what's happening. I guarantee you, I mean, we could put money on it.

Because Madam Webb, they talked about, Spider-Gwen's coming. I think all of this. You can literally do 10 movies after- So does Venom show up in this one? I think so. Interesting. Maybe, I don't, I honestly, just the direction they're going with Venom, like I haven't seen.

Have you seen it already? Maybe. Okay, so, you know, I'm talking about, trying that to give anything. Is this air after? This air is. on next next well yeah next week okay this drop so venom drops Friday this right okay so you can you can talk about yeah there are elements that make me think that Tom Hardy wants it to be involved

and there are things that happen in the movie that allow for that to the point where I think Sony's like well we've been trying to play separate let's put it all together and I think that's and at this point they're playing there the the battle lines are no longer battle lines exactly we're back when the Sony meeting happened and then venom changed and it's not a coincidence let's figure it all Also, Tom Hardy's a story credit in this movie. Tom Hardy's got more control. This is Tom Hardy's first theatrical writing credit. He's got a taboo writing credit.

Yeah. And did you like it? I did. It's insane. It's better than the first ones? I didn't like the first one. If you liked the craziness of the first one, this movie's for you. It's the Lopter's tanked scene for like 90 minutes.

It's insane. Oh, I don't like that. It's not going to be for you. That was my list. I loved it. But I love Andy Circus. It's like doing drugs. Like, it's great.

It's like fear and loathing and venom. What an endorsement of a spite of a spy on a spy on a spy. Spider-Bin, Bucerbog, drugs. It's like doing drugs. It's great. Good drugs. No, it's literally like watching...

So let me tell you about butcher box. Hunter-Ass Thompson's Venom let there be carnage. No, it's a full gonzo of 90 minutes. They put their fucking gas pedal down. They go for 90 minutes. It's insane. I want to see it as another one. Yet another screening I passed away.

It's got an Avengers-level post-credit scene, too. You can start sending him. I'll go. And you should go and talk about it on here. The post-credit. at scenes Avengers level and I think Sony is throwing way more into a shared universe than they had been. And I do think that what No Way Home is going to do is open up an Avengers level thing with all Spider-Men's. Like I think we're getting an interdimensional Sinister 6.

I think we're getting a live-action Spider-Verse. I think we're getting a potential Spider-Man 4 and Spider-Man 3 because Garfield wants it. Toby wants it seemingly and Sam Ramee certainly wants it. I think that could all happen. So do you think that Toby's not going to die? I think he could die and get a Spider-Man 4. Because he could die in this universe and still get his own movie. You're going to really, you got to really get people.

Multiversal. Yeah, but what I'm saying, the audience, you got to make sure, because not everybody, a fan asked me this not too long ago, like, do you think you're going to lose people with the multiverse angle, right? Because it's like, that's a lot. Yeah. It's a lot to handle. But it's, I understand why Marvel's going there at this point.

It's like they've done everything that they need to. Let's just throw it all out there and let's try to do some stuff. At this point, it's kind of like, what else can you do? What else can you do? 100%. You opened up. these floodgates so hard with the wrapping of the Infinity saga with the stones, which almost in a lot of ways seems more complex at times, but they've made it work.

Yeah. So you have nothing left to do other than to be like, well, there's actually a whole breath of characters and shenanigans. Into the spider versus 100 minutes. They explain multiverse to kids. That's true. I need to go back and watch that one. I loved it when I saw it.

So good. So a couple questions about the first movie and tying into this. So, Kirsten Dunst, we see her or no? In No Way Home? Yeah. You think so. Okay. You think?

No. All right. I don't think we see, I don't think we see her. Yeah, I don't think we see James Franco for a lot of different reasons, but also because of the fact that I just... It's too much. It's too much. I think Goblin, Doc Ock, for sure, the three Spider-Man.

Three Spider-Man? Yeah, we'll see. I put 80% on MJ, 95% on Toby, and then obviously 100% on Doc. My out of left fields that I think we see is Paul Gianmani. No. I just think, I just think, I just think, like, because wait, because hold on. That's the size is how everyone's going to feel. So, wait, because, I mean, I guess we don't technically.

I mean, Jamie Fox is coming back. Right. I guess we don't technically need him because you already have, what, goblin, octopus. Electro. You have electro. You have a shocker. You have vulture. And then it depends if you bring back Mysterio or if, like, but who's the sixth?

That's, I mean, that's the, it's, whether or not Mysterio is leading this through subterfuge, because he's not dead. Manganella? Does he show up, you think? I don't think he does here, but if they do a Spider-Rush movie, I think he does. Because he's such a nerd. But there's so, yeah, he definitely. There's so much in this movie, the first movie that was a fun re-watch. But we also, so as we go back and we talk about this film, though, as much as you guys

had fun watching it when you were kids, this, it doesn't hold up for you. Is that, is that right? It dropped from an A to B plus. It dropped like two letter grades for me. I would say it drops from like an A to A to B. It's still a good movie, but like, it just, it became a B movie seeing the camp. There's a lot of, there's a lot of, nine, nine, nine point two to nine eight point five. Like, it's a substantial drop for me.

It's so weird. And I don't know if it's maybe because of the Clone War stuff that I've been doing, you know, but like I watched this and watching it with my, with my oldest who was enjoying it a lot. I watched it with different eyes. I definitely saw all of the cheese. I definitely saw the B movie stuff because that's kind of what Ramey style is a lot of time to throw that B movie stuff in there. And, and but I really wound up enjoying this movie. I always liked it.

And I remember going back to watch it again and going, you know, this time it's probably I'm like, oh, this is some cheesy shit. I did feel that way, but it didn't bother me. I like reading Silver Age comics for that reason, but I have to be in that headspace. So, like, when I read like 60s comics, I'm like, oh, I know they're going to say zoinks.

Like, I got to be in that space. I think I was in the headspace and I found myself enjoying it. My rating and ranking didn't change for it. Do I think it holds up to the kind of movies that are made today in this genre? No, I don't. I think it's, they're just, they wouldn't be approached this particular way.

Even the movies like Shazam that are kind of fun and they're different the way that it's. That's a great example. I think if they make Spider-Man 4, it's going to be amblin toned. It'll be Shazam-toned. It'll be, and next year is the 60th anniversary of Spider-Man.

It's the 20th anniversary of Spider-Man 1 because they made that in the 40th anniversary. You're going to confuse the shit out of people. You really are. 1962 plus 40 years as 02 plus 20 years as 2022. But you're going to confuse people who didn't, like imagine you don't see No Way home, right? And then you hear Spider-Man 4 is coming out with Toby McGuire.

But what the hell is it? Yeah. But I think Marvel's doing that now. I think so many's been doing that. I'm not telling you that don't think it's going to happen. It's the same way, very different, but yet the same, when I saw solo. Yeah. And Darth Mall pops up at the end.

Sure. And I turn to Ken, I go, this is going to confuse a lot of people. Yeah. See, I think what the issue is, is what they should have done, and then I got to run pretty soon. What they should have done, in all honesty, is they should have changed the naming of the MCU Spider-Man. that should have maybe gone with Ultimate or something like that because at least then you could differentiate, at least with Garfield, it's the amazing Spider-Man.

So you go, it's Amazing Spider-Man 3. You can go, oh, I see what you're doing there. Yeah, spectacular Spider-Man. Peter Parker Spider-Man. Something, you know what I mean? They didn't know. I guess they didn't know at the time. But look, this is just the first movie.

We got a lot more to talk about, yeah. And a lot of these conferences, this is what you guys have to be prepared for is that every one of the movies that we talk about, they're going to keep linking back to No Way Home because that's why we're doing these rewatches. There was a lot of stuff we picked up for this one. I think there's a lot of stuff we'll pick up from the second one.

God help us. We have to watch the third one. There's a lot that we're going to watch all of. We're watching all three. Then we're going to watch Amazing Spider-Man one and two. And then we will be watching Spider-Verse to cap it off before we get to the... Get a pallet cleanser. So good.

Yeah, it's so clean after. A good steak at Butcher Box. Guys, thank you for joining us. Cojian Drew, follow him at Cois' Andrew. The Swaggy Bird. What do you guys got going on? Winston, start with you. Yeah, yeah, of course.

Blurts in the hood every Tuesday and Thursday, 6 p.m. Pacific. Definitely come hang out with me and Jay Washington. You know, it's just a good time. We're fucking wild over there. It's not for kids. Apparently, this show isn't today. I asked. You went for it. I just assumed this was S-E-N.

You could just say whatever. And then I've been hosting the Citizen app. So, you know, if you want to know what naked man is chasing people with a machete, I'm your guy. So I'll be on there sometime this week. I realize it's airing after we tape it. you know, come to hang out on the citizen. The voice of California's Florida man.

You got to rip those Florida men on the streets. What you got, you got, you find me on YouTube at my own channel at Koijondro. Also on TikTok, trying to grow that TikTok, which is a whole thing at Koijondra there as well. Just type Koi Jondru in your Google box, and I'm a lot of places.

I got a podcast, I got a YouTube show. And I want to say a B is in the top, like, third of comic book movies. So as much as we said some negative, I want to give the context to Sam Ramey fans, a B is still very high, so much love to the film. With all the acknowledgement that this show is, it's set,

It set trends. It set a precedent. It didn't set a trend set a foundation. True. The bedrock of comic movies. Thank you to X-Men and Sam Ramey, but this director's less problematic.

Well, thank you guys so very much. Everything that you guys have done, you can get this on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, anywhere that podcasts are found. Please do that. If you're not checking any, it went some dispention to S-E-N on Twitch every day, 10 to 12, on Twitch on the S-E-N,

or slow-down Twitch channel, rather. It's going to be doing a Spider-Man 2, We'll be doing that next week. So check us out there. We are still doing the rewatches on SIF Council leading up to Book of Bobavet, which was announced end of December as that's dropping. So thank you guys so much. Appreciate it. Find all those links in the description.

And there's this thing called Butcher Box. Check that out as well. All right, guys. Peace out.