The Kristian Harloff Show - REWATCH: Spider-Man 3 (2007) Deep Dive | The Big Thing

Episode Date: October 22, 2021

We are back with our Spider-Man rewatch. It is time for Spider-Man 3. Sam Raimi's final Spider-Man film. So much going on in this movie, Sandman, Harry Ozborne, Venom. Too much? Does this movie stink as everyone remembers it stinking or was there some good stuff in it that was missed? Kristian, Coy, Winston are back to discuss the movie. Follow on Twitter Kristian Harloff https://bit.ly/31PePMD Mark Ellis https://bit.ly/2U1wKPa Brett Sheridan https://bit.ly/2HBltii Steph Sabraw https://bit.ly/3m0ud0z Kate Mulligan https://bit.ly/3owBneT Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What's up, everybody? Welcome back to Big Thing. It's the Spider-Man rewatch. It's the third movie. Man, am I not excited about this one? This is a movie. And we're going to be talking about it. If you are joining us on The Big Thing,

and you're brand new to the channel. Thank you so much. I don't know if you found us through the DC fandom videos that we did or some of the reviews that we did. Or you just stumbled upon us and said, hey, we want to check this out. Well, we do rewatches.

We're doing the Spider-Man rewatches leading up to No Way Home. We're doing Star Wars rewatches for Sith Council. Lots of great stuff going on in this channel. And we're very excited to have you guys with us. Myself, Coyce Andrew, Winston-A. Marshall. We're going to have a blast here today. Excited to have you with us. Let's get into this happy horse shit as soon as we can.

It's Spider-Man 3. It's the re-watch. It is the big thing. Let's do it. Why did they make this movie? There's too much going on. Venom is a bitch. Eddie Brock sucks.

What's up, everybody? I like this new theme song. The lyrics are different this time. I'm saying. Also, we were talking, see, he's still kind of hulking. But, like, when he's Eddie, I'm talking about. So I think they thought, yeah, yeah, and I think they thought it'd be more linear to be like, let's make it different. I think they thought the strength of ultimate was the weakness of ultimate and vice versa.

So they adapted the wrong part of what made it work. I need you guys to stop speaking German. So we are doing the, it is the big thing episode. It is the rewatch of Spite. Spider-Man 3, the Sam Ramey version. It is the last movie in the Ramey, and it was not supposed to be the last movie, and there was a lot going on.

So as this movie gets a horrendous rap, and a lot of that is warranted. So Winston and I spoke on the phone the other day we were talking about this movie, and he said something that I felt rang very true. You do not feel this way, Corey. But what he said to me was, this movie is bad,

but it's not as bad as I remember it. I feel the same way. It's a fucking mess. Oh, yeah. It's a mess. And there's so much shit going on and too much shit going on. And you could have focused just on the Sandman. And that would have been the villain and I'm good to go.

That would have been absolutely. Like, I would have even been okay with keep the black suit spidey, which I have a personal gripe with the design. I always loved the fact that when the symbiate suit is on him other than like also getting that venom symbol. But the matte black, there's no texture. It's just the, The suit is alive shit. Like that needs to be like,

like they've done with Venom now. It needs to be like a texture. It needs to be alive. It needs to be life. But instead they went with the textured weird. It was a color. It was a palette swap. Yeah.

Like it was literally a palette swap. Black. They just went like click, click and they activated. But long story short, I think if you had done Sandman and even had black suit spidey and some of the repercussions and you want to say three ends on a cliffhanger where he rips the suit off, it falls on Brock.

and then we're on to a new movie, I think that would have been phenomenal because... Even with the build-up to Gobblum would have worked. You even could have balanced Goblin Sandman, which is a lot. I agree with that. Even that would have worked. Because because of the fact that there's this... There's so much shit going on, it gets lazy,

and they throw in fucking amnesia, for God's sakes. I mean, and it's like... Anytime you throw amnesia in there, it's like, oh, here he's coming out, do you, bong. And first of all, not only do they do the amnesia, it just shows everybody, every character is an... awful human being in this. Everybody.

And we didn't talk about it in Spider-Man 2. We brought this up the other day. You and I took it. Saman's the only one. And, and May, Aunt May. But one of the things we didn't touch on in Spider-Man 2 that I brought up to both you guys that drove me crazy was at the end of this movie in Spider-Man 2,

and it plays into this, so I bring it up. But Mary Jane is about to marry J. Jonah Jameson, James' son, who disappears. Yeah. Who disappears from this movie altogether. What a nice guy this guy is. All he does is try to encourage her. He's around for her.

He asks to marry her, right? And this fucking asshole, I'm going to use mine right now. Leaves him at on the aisle, right? And let's the dad pay for the wedding. That ain't cheap. That's part one. Okay. Part two is not only does she do that, she thinks it's a riot.

She's running back. Smiling, laughing in the streets of New York. to a really nice person. Yeah. And then she goes and then she goes to Spidey, tells him, go do your thing, Tiger, and then gives him crap about it and that's one. Make up your mind, girl. So, okay, now mind you, real, real quick,

there's two things that come to my mind when I think about that. First of all is the fact, how does Peter Parker still have a job? Because it is very clear that Mary Jane is not dating Spider-Man is dating Peter Parker. Right. How the fuck does Peter put, that's my one. And I needed it for that. Dude, you left my son at the altar. I paid for the whole for him.

Right. I pay him $100 to take photos of Spider-Man. Why does he have a job still? Yeah. It's that, but it's, you know, it is little things like that, though. There's detail in that. And it's just lazy. And I think it goes back to the fact that Sam Ramey was pushed into this movie.

I also didn't notice it because I've never, I've watched them all back-to-back, but in one day. I've never done week-to-week. And I think you get a little bit more time to breathe. So I need to discuss the fact that I want to paint you guys a picture. Yes, please. You got your act one. You got this amazing opening action set piece, which is stunning, beautiful, reminds you why I love Spider-Man. Late Act 1, you've got a science experiment gone wrong with a lot of big over-the-top acting, push-ins,

crazy science, and something goes wrong where a likable character becomes unlikable. Then in the second act, you've got this insane opening event in the live in the center of New York. It always kind of looks like Times Square. Something happens causes a female love interest to be in peril. Right. You've got a kiss that happens also at that scene. And then going into the third act, you've got something involving a train, and then you've got something that happens involving Harry Osborne,

which movie today has just described? I know. All three of them. They're the same movie. It's the same beat over to end. How is that? It's a remake of itself. And the Gwen Stacy stuff is lost.

Like they throw it in there. They make, like they do that upside down kissing at the key to the city moment. But then he uses her to get Mary Jane jealous. Then she's gone. And by the way, he puts his hands on Mary Jane. Yeah. We can't like him. Ever again.

Well, okay, hold on. We can if we actually explore it. Because if you think about it, remember, Mary Jane's whole arc as she comes from a beauty. Right. So if that's the line that he crosses, and he has to be like straight, like, I mean, I know that's the breaking point for him

where he's like, I got to get rid of this thing. But like, if there is some sort of proof and we're seeing that he's actively trying to redeem himself and like that genuinely wasn't me, I mean, it was because I did it. We don't explore it. We don't explore. That's what I'm saying.

The movie ends with a cemetery scene in the rain with Mary Jane walking away. Also, it keeps happening. Let me tell you, yeah. Let me tell you another thing to show you how, they're the same movie. How this movie had no impact on me. I had no idea and totally forgot James Franco died.

Oh, really? I remember that. I remember that. Because it's a spectacular Spider-Man 200. Like, it's literally the cover of a book that I love. I completely forgot. And all of that, by the way. And there's so much, again,

playing into this angle that Mary Jane is a real a-hole, is that not only does she do all that stuff to, Jay Jonah Jameson's kid. Then when Peter is trying to tell her, he's having a conversation where she's like, she's worried about getting fired and too and have the critics. And he's like, well, you know, Spider-Man,

I get this stuff too. She's like, this isn't about you. And what they're trying to do is they're trying to get you like, oh, Peter's being selfish. He's not. He's giving his experience. Well, I don't care for what they're trying to do.

I don't care what they're trying to do. Hold on. Hold on. Just give me a second. Because it eventually gets to that place where he's starting to get it. But he's giving his, experience. He is making it about, he's swinging into the city and he's getting like, look at me. Woohoo. He's doing it. But he's, she's just like, I don't want to hear about it. This is, this is, this is me, not you.

And then what does she do when he, she does get upset and he's an asshole again and, and kisses her, which is a stupid thing to do? It doesn't make sense why he would think that's exactly there and he's also not. Why do you think that that's okay to do? He's not venom. He's Peter. He's Peter. There's no reason for that choice. Sure lay it on me. Oh, sure. It would, it would be okay for you to do that. He's right there, and you're on TV, and you're cheating on your girl. If he has the symbiate as a part of his system, that's one thing. But it wasn't there yet. But Peter Parker would never have done that. So he's in the wrong.

That's what I'm saying. Everybody in this movie is awesome. And the opening, remember we talked right before air that, like, the moment for you shifting was the venom moment that everyone thinks the movie shifts at. Right. For me, it's actually the moment of the kiss because he's up on top of the thing, acting like he's already got the symbiate. Oh, they love me.

I've got no mask on. I'm making decisions. Everyone knows you're Peter Parker now if you're standing on the edge of the building of your mask off off. Because if they know that's where he's coming in from. They're going to look up and look that guy. And then he dives in and acts arrogant. There's a lot of lazy moments like that.

Well, we've already established they really don't give a rat's ass about Peter Parker. We know Peter Parker, Spider-Man. Then swing in without the mess. And Aunt May clearly knows. On May has that Spider-Man combo for the third time. Again, it's a remake. It's the same thing. But then, but the part that I'm trying to get to here, too, is Harry gets Amnesia and

starts to be a good guy again, right? And gets away from this stuff. and then she goes over to go and cook with the best friend, okay, who you used to date. Yeah. So you know what's going on that. Then you kiss him and turn him back into the rage monster, right? And he goes back into it.

He hears Willem Defoe's voice and he never comes back again. And then the Alfred ripoff comes out and says, Your dad was killed by his home glider. Which I could have told you before the Indonesia. I decided to tell you now when your face is burnt off. Yeah. Now that you've suffered and nearly died. So much lazy crap in this movie.

Hold on timeout. There is a few things. You're trying to be nice to this movie. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. But there are some. He's me last week. Yes. No, it's what you said at the end of the other.

There are some positives to take away. There are. There are. So again, Sandman is an incredible. Gorgeous. They did an amazing job with that. I was the whole movie was about it. If it had just been about him and maybe he did the final arc with Harry, great.

That would have been enough. Yes. You also have the fight between Harry and Peter. when Peter is pissed. Dude. Do you know that it's shot for shot, the final fight of him and Goblin? Yeah.

So like that you wonder. Well, no, no, I mean the, the fight, I mean, in the first movie. Yeah. So except it's now it's flip. So now Peter's the aggressor instead of Green Goblin, the point where Green Goblin's punching through the windows, Peter's punching through the windows.

The point where Goblin throws him and Peter hits the banister and flips down in that abandoned building, he throws Harry up and hits the banishment. That's cool. So that was really good filming. I like that. That's why I agree with you guys that I think that it, If it's the Harry Osborne story coupled with Sandman,

great. We get it, we get it, because we understand, because you have led up to that point from one, two, that we have this lead up to what everything Harry is going through. So he's kind of this thorn in the side. Meanwhile, you have this other story with Sandman going on, and you don't need the big sand monster. Like the stuff that he does with his hands.

So gorgeous. That's the stuff that works. Like the big, ugh. It's like, why? It's the Sam Ranii Monster thing. It's, I can't.

And what I liked is that the redemption arc for him forgiving himself for Uncle Ben ties beautifully into Harry forgiving him for me and Peter Parker. That parallels all you needed. It's a three-act story. What are Spider-Man 1-3 about redemption? And then what you do is you have him like, I love your idea of, ended on him having the black suit, dripping down. You have Venom in the fourth movie, and that would tie into the black cat being introduced,

which was supposed to, and Vulture, because you could have had him loving her as venom, and that the way the Mary Jane thing works. This is a kind of book question that I don't know. Because I was taking more reference off of the venom that I saw from the first Tom Hardy movie after I watch this back. Is Eddie Brock a jerk from the get-go? Eddie Brock is an asshole. He always is.

Because he's a jerk. He's got a thing about him in the Tom Harnie version, but this guy just like, he's an action. Do you think so? As an anti-hero, not regarding Peter, yes. Regarding Peter, because Tofer Grace is a, there's nothing likeable about Toaddle.

You want Tofer Grace to get hit by a bus. Immediately. Well, Eddie Brock, as he was initially introducing that, and correct me from wrong here, is a complete tool. And so it is this thing where he is, Eddie Brock is doing crappy stuff. Obviously, Peter and Spider-Man is like,

I can't rock with the symbiates. So that's why when they come together, they both hate Peter. 100% hurts. And they're like, and the other thing that piss me off about this, you went away from the idea that again, it is a,

it's not talking to him. Exactly. It's, I hate you so much. It's like, no, we hate you. It is venom as us,

not just. It's a lot. This thing doesn't seem alive as much as it just seems like a kind of weird. In the comic books, Eddie is, a reporter that is wronged by Spider-Man because there's this villain that he exposes and then it's proven to be false. So instead of photography, he's a journalist. And in the comic books, he's like this bodybuilder, angry, rage-filled monster who's unlikable, he stalks Mary

Jane. It's very uncomfortable. It's way worse than what he does here. But as soon as you remove Peter from the equation, you see that he thinks he's justified in the violence of saving others. And that's why I'm saying he's more redeemable. Tofer doesn't even have that quality of, I'm a good guy Except Peter. Right. Whereas Peter only... And Tovri even says it. Because Spider-Man tells him,

he goes, get that thing off him. It's going to... Yeah. And he's just like, I like being the bad guy. Because he's the lethal protector. He's not the bad guy. That's what I'm saying is the difference. Venom hates Spider-Man, but...

He gets there eventually, though. Because remember, he was a villain for a long time before they... Right. He was a villain for a long time. I want to say the change was around when Carnage got introduced. A little before, but not much. A little before, right? Yeah.

So that was the point where he, again, similar to what you're seeing in the... these Venom movies, obviously you can debate whether they're good or not. The idea of for the symbiate, it's like, I just want to eat people and like whatever. And like Eddie being the person, be like, no, we need to protect them. Like, if we got to go to extreme measures, fine. So Venom was 88 and then Carnage was 92. And in between there, there's this great storyline, Eric Larson drew, where he's on an island. And he's got like Spider-Man's skull and it's like this beautiful iconic imagery.

But he talks about wanting to help people then. So that leads to the carnage stuff. But they planted the seeds about a year later because they were like, this guy looks too cool to waste him. So first of all, everything that is. you guys are saying how detailed this is. This is the perfect, just hearing the two you talk about it, there's no reason that this story should have been in this movie. Correct.

It's because what happens is they're setting Brock up that he's trying to take Peter's job and all this stuff, and then it's just so random. He asked Jesus to kill Spider-Man, and then he hears. God was like, I got you, bro. He's right here. Right. It's such a bizarre scene.

And then he just happens to be at the same point. place in the same and then the the the freaking suit or venom falls on him and gets him and just like now he's venom and there's no of this stuff that you're talking about which is why i think venom was such a popular character because it was complicated because there was so much development inside of it it's just thrust upon you and it and it takes away the sandman stuff in the beginning as you were saying Winston with his daughter that scene when he comes in with his daughter and he's trying and he's just and puts all the letters with his ex wife like i'm not a bad dude No, all of that.

And when that's in it, you take away from all of that because you're not giving a time to grow. And you look at what you did with Doc Doc. And we all agree that Doc is the best villain. And because it's all you got. Sandman could have been. And one more sandman would be in the same regards as Molina. If we had a little bit more same. I think you'll give more time than just one scene.

But like Malina caliber performance. But I'll give you this. And I mean, we'll get to it when we get to the MCU. I think the best out of all of them that were portrayed, honestly, is Michael Keaton's vulture. Yeah. But it comes from the same area. A hundred percent. 100 percent.

He's in my top five MCU villains. Nobody talks about it. Like I'd say Voltcher's right because he's different goblin. They do the goblin stuff, but what Voltra Rocher will talk about. The best villains. The best villains are the ones that always feel like their purpose is real, but there's also there's like a humanity about him when you understand. Like all the stuff that we're talking, we'll get, again, we'll get the Voltra when you get to him.

But there's stuff that he's doing. You're like, you shouldn't be doing that, but I kind of understand why you are. Yeah. Kill longer. Right. And I finished. And I finished a different conversation all together, but I finished what if. Nice. Finally, welcome.

Fantastic, right? Even the motivations that happen with that character. You see why I was read about Eternals? Because of the way what if ends, I was like, because I didn't know. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I can. No, no, it's not a spoiler. It's not a spoiler. Just an awareness.

A reminder for people to, because this comes out on Friday. Well, I'm going to be doing my separate short, non-spoiler review of Eternals that will come out on Sunday. But then Koi and I are going to be doing the big thing, Eternals, non-spoiler review. And then we'll be doing a spoiler review. So Eternals will be coming out just a reminder to you guys. But you know what's funny you just described the vulture? Spider-Man is the opposite. Everything he does should be likable and it's not.

Every choice Spider-Man and Tobin-Muire makes, I'm like, this guy's awful. And when he's like, he's being mean to the landlord, he's being mean to the landlord's daughter, he's being mean to Gwen Stacy, being mean to Mary Jane, being mean. Like, who is he good to? He's not a hero. And that's with or without the symbiate. And that's why I've never really, as an adult felt Toby McGuire was Spider-Man.

As a kid, it was my option. It was my experience. I was young. But as an adult, like, Toby's just not Spidey to me. Yeah, I... Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. When he's mean to the landlord of the daughter, he's definitely, he has a suit.

Yeah, yeah, but I'm saying he doesn't change nearly enough, as he should. And a lot of choices he makes aren't good even as Peter, and then you're like, because it also, there's the speech from Doc Connors where he's like, it enhances how you already feel. I'm like, are you saying Peter's a monster always? And it just brings it out, and then he's like, and aggression.

Like, they added a line in ADR. It's a, honestly, at that point, it's a massive, it's a massive metaphor for, like, what happens when people are, like, drinking excessively. where like all of a sudden the rage monster comes out and etc. Which I think the landlord says it. Landlord says he's a good boy. He's having a bad.

Something must be wrong. He's a good boy. Because then even when he ultimately then it hits Mary Jane and it wasn't like they're having a conversation and he smacks her. It's he's fighting the bouncer and then he swings back. Absolutely. But I think that that's Coy's overall point, which I agree with is that even when the landlord says he's a good boy. I don't believe him. I believe that Spider-Man who's helping people is good.

I mean like that stuff. But then we even see in the beginning of this movie, without the simbuit, that he is, that he's really doing it for the applause. Right, he wants the admiration. That's not Spider-Man. Also, when Harry gets killed, spoiler alert for the- He doesn't give a crap.

He just looks him in the eye and he's like, huh, my friend just died in front of me. He has no reaction. It takes him like a minute to go, Harry! He has to stab him, look at him die, lift him before he yells. He does a sociopath.

Even when he wax- Spider-Man, sociopath man. Even when he hits Mary Jane, he's like, yeah, I probably shouldn't do that. Yeah, and that you could say bad writing with the symbioteeat, But Spider-Man would be fighting that inside. Peter Parker fights the symbiates urges. He's just acknowledging it like,

better go do some jazz dancing. But see, this is that, that would have been the moment that I would have really liked because even in the rendition of like the 90s animated cartoon, even though he doesn't have the full conversations the way that Eddie does with the symbiates,

he still has some moments in his mind. He's like, what is happening to me? And it's like, I'm making you better. And he's like, no, you're not. You're making me worse. There's no conversations in this. And that's what I did. I mean, I don't love,

I haven't seen the second venom, but I don't love. I love the first one, but I love the fact that everything we're talking about here is that there was this conversation, conflict that Eddie had with Venom and it was taken over. They had to meet together to agree, okay, okay, you can live here, but we got to make some agreements together. You got to pay rent. And that formed. That's what I'll say, but that formed.

That doesn't happen yet. At all. The second Venom is cotton candy. It's not, there's no nutritional value to it whatsoever. You don't look at it and go, this is amazing, but you watch and you go, I have fun watching this because it is a weird rom-com But either either way that doesn't happen in this one. Doesn't get a chance.

And so what do you guys, speaking to Samman, how do you feel about the stuff with Uncle Ben? Going back to understand that Sam, because Samman in the comics doesn't kill. No, nothing to do with it. It was a weird rewrite. Just to give him a reason to beat the ever-loving crap out of him. Like it wasn't, I don't know why you needed to do that.

It felt like they were like, we need the venom rage. How do we make him care about Sandman some? much. And then they're like, he killed Ben. And it doesn't work for me because it's kind of like the Batman Joker thing. We're in Michael Keaton's they were like hinted that Joker's actually the one that killed like they have that tie in with his parents. And I was like, that's not the Joker. Joker's chaos. Why would you make Joker? Joe chill and Joker don't work if Joker's not chaos. And this does that retroactively where it's like we should care. This is why I brought up what if because this to me now this what if and the multiverse and all that helps this movie

tremendously. Sure. Because when you're looking at what the Watcher is talking about and all these different universes and multiverses. And it's like, in this version, the Sandman killed Uncle Ben. So it's like, okay. It's like, because I know in another version, that didn't happen. Yeah. So it's like, when it's the only those three movies. Good point.

When it's only those three movies, you're like, well, wait a minute, that's like you said, that's not the Joker's stuff and all that comparison is right. But now, especially when you know, at least we know, well, we do know that this universe is going to transfer over into the MCU. We know that in that particular universe, that's how Uncle Ben does. died. Yeah. In another universe, he died just by that one guy or somebody else. Yeah. So it's like, so that's why I'm, the multiverse has, has, has helped bad writing.

Retroactive continuity is genius. Retroactive continuity is saving lives. Also, this universe to me is what if Toby McGuire was a sociopath as Spider-Man? Like, it just doesn't work. But it, but it is like, what if he was more angry? It was like, because it would be really funny if Tom Holland's like, wow, I'm kind of a dick in this other one. Yeah, right? And I said that on one of my shows and they were like, I'm like, the tone isn't going to work because I don't think Tom would get a lot.

with Toby. Like, Toby's Spider-Man, I'm like, not really. Like, I think people are going to be really upset when they see them side by side and go like, oh, maybe this isn't what I remember. I'm so curious.

You know, we all know that they're going to do that scene with the three of the three. Oh, they have to. If you don't do it, then one, I don't truly believe Fagie has been behind all this. I think that this has all been a sham.

Because Faggy wants that scene. It was a bunch of seals in a tank, like the South Park just putting that fucking ideas in a ball. Like, there's no way you don't do it. Especially since you already... What's that from, Either way.

The animated show from the 60s. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And it was it actual, was it? Spider-Man, I'm Spider-Man, you're Spider-Man. Yeah, was it actual Spider-Man? Or was it, people just dressed up in suit for two of them? I thought it was him and Mysterio, was it not? It was Mysterio, him, and there was one other person.

But it was, it was just as, like, hijinks-y. Is Jake Gyllenhaal gonna be in this movie? I think so. Yeah. I would say the fact that he unleashed Peter's identity, I feel like you gotta maybe have a callback to it, but I've been trying to figure out what the Sinister Six is going to be in this regard. Well, so.

And another reason I bring up No Way Home, considering the reason we're doing this series in general is to relate everything. But is there a concern? Because as we talked about, this movie's biggest problem, Harry Osborne, Sandman, Venom, Eddie Brock, and then you get... Gwen Stacy, so much stuff going on, right?

And then you get Amazing Spider-Man 2, which is the same problem that they had. Does No Way Home face the same problem? No. And the only reason I say no is because the simple fact that we've gone, on inside baseball to bring Toby McGuire's universe and Garfield universe. You are known ahead of time.

You need to do your homework to be here. You didn't get that luxury in Spider-Man 3, which is like, here's a new adventure, but we're going to throw a bunch of stuff at you. Same with Amazing Spider-Man 2. Here's a new adventure. We're going to throw a whole bunch at you. We've been given time to get ready for this.

So this is almost an end game to the Spider-Man saga that has spanned since 2002. So I think that's a great point, too, because we, in this movie, We'd only really spent like a little over two, four hours with Toby before Spider-Man 3. And Andrew Garfield, two hours or a little over two hours before we got the Spider-Man too. Yeah. Tom Holland, we've seen in the Avengers movies, Civil War. Like, we're so comfortable with him already as, and he's been in, granted, he's only in two movies, but he's been in so many other movies as Spider-Man.

Right. That by the time you get there, and that is the overall premise. And they're leaning deep with all this, again, not a spoiler for you, but like this stuff with the way that the galaxy works and who's in charge of what and all of a sudden. The way they're really leaning deep into it, whether it's Loki, Eternals, like this stuff, they're going all in. I think that, and we'll talk about it, heavier in Eternals, I think they're going to lose some people.

I think there's, there's certain casual fans that are not going to get Eternals. It's going to go right over their head. Sure. But this, many. And this might lose people the same way that like when Dark Ball showed up in solo. It is. This is shiny enough. They're going to be fine.

And I love your end game comparison because, like, 10 years ago, I pitched them doing basically a Sinister Six movie where they do it as the Sinister Six of the Leeds and Spider-Man is the villain. And I was pitching like an Ocean's 11 heist film. So you fall in love with Shockery, you fall in love with the beetle, you fall in love of these characters.

And they're day-to-day people. And then they're just trying to get home like Sandman, but you've got Spider-Man always getting in the wind. They're like, we're just like down-nar-luck guys. Like, go mess with venom. So it's basically like a rags-to-richist or villains, and that's how you do to Sinister 6.

That's actually kind of fun. Right, and that a dope. Sony, come on. I gave it to you. But what I would do now is have the origin story of all these characters you've met through all these other things, but have them be kind of the likable ones with, you know, Sandman, with Electra, with Jake Gyllenhauls, Mysterio. Get the ones that are the goodish guys, then have sociopaths Hobo Maguire as Spider-Man, like maybe being too aggressive. I think that you're, that's a fantasy of yours.

It is. Truly is, tinfoil hat firmly on. I'm just saying. That's what I would do. Because I think the reason why is, although you make great points of why he's not the Spider-Man that you knew and grew up with, people love him as Spinolellan. They do. And there's no way that you're going to be able to make him the villain. You can make him a little jerky.

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That's right. So jumping back into it. So as you're watching it, you know, there's this and nobody, they fake out that everyone dies in this movie. Like, it's like, oh, he just blew up Harry's face.

I mean, he just blew Harry up. Nah, just his face. He's okay. How do he survive? Don't worry about it. Okay. And then Sandman. He's mud. How do he survive? Don't worry about it. Venom probably survived because he was melded with the symbionate at the end. Even though he saw a skeleton and now he's going to come back more venom than ever.

He was probably going to come back in the fourth one with 75 villains. The sinister six days don't call it that. It's just I actually think that it was, I know people were bombed obviously at the time because what a lot of people don't know, we mentioned it briefly, is that there was a big deal. I think 2010 they were in jeopardy, Sony was in jeopardy of losing the property back to Marvel. because in their deal they had to make a movie within a certain amount of time where they lose the property.

They couldn't get Sam Ramey back on board. They couldn't figure it out. They were supposed to do the fourth movie. It fell through. They couldn't do it. Toby was going to come back, but they just couldn't get the deal done. So they just said,

the hell with it. Cast somebody else. And then that's how amazing Spider-Man came to be. When you look at the way that the progression of where we are today, I think it was, again, multiverse, who knows what happens if they make that fourth movie,

you don't get what we have today. You don't have Spider-Man inside the MC. It actually was the best thing I think that happened. Well, I bet you if you do that, I don't think they go, well, I guess Ironman had already, this movie was what? This is 0-07. Iron Man's only next year? So Iron Man's already in production.

I was going to say there's a possibility if Sony loses Spider-Man that that becomes their flagship to try and get back in. Yeah. Because it is a gamble to go with Iron Man because hardcore, hardcore comic fans maybe are big fans of Iron Man. But you can be more experimental and your budget's lower. Like you can make an Iron Man for a lot cheaper than a Spider-Man, and they did, and they were not even done writing it.

Like, that movie is a lesson. And, whoa. They were writing that movie on. On the day. While they were shooting. Yeah. So when you say they were in production at that point, I don't know. I mean, they might have been thinking about making that movie for sure at that point.

But it was pretty. Well, this came out in 07. It has to have been because it came out in no eight. The post-production is going to be a year. May 08. Mayo 8. So they shot it. They had to have been in the middle of it.

And there's no way it's not nine to ten months of CGI. Minimum. So, like, I want to say they were probably a year into production on Iron Man. And that's insane to think about the tonal shift of this to that. Because this movie has, like we talked about in one and two, all the New York we love. It's got the Spider-Man, this friendly neighborhood, all that. But it's really interesting how we just don't do that with the MCU. And I think that's what we might get back to when Sony has Spider-Man back.

You know what else the cops don't do in this movie? Anything. Well, okay, hold on. Wait, wait, wait. They shoot and say, but they shoot and say, but they get their ass-wool. But okay, that's, that's once, but that's once in that one particular thing. So, so here's, here's the thing that drove me crazy. At the end, when here's this big thing, and they had this ridiculous news broadcast,

and then a woman telling us, and the cops are just watching, nobody's helping anybody. I'm that's the most realest thing about the movie. You've been LAPD? It's, but it's cops. But they're right there. And it's like, and so, Harry. We tried. We can't get up there.

Every time we try and go, the sand guy just knocks us back. I'm only getting $60 an hour of pension. So there's a big sand monster. Where's the president? Send the jets. Send the jets. Also, did you notice they said Uncle Ben's death two years ago? All this happened in two years and Toby age 20?

Send the jets. They never showed Toby from like the here down. They cut to his back for the venom shot. Homeboy had a belly and they were like creatively shot around it. And they were like, that was only two years ago. Oh, dude, it drove me nuts. As a fitness dude, I was like, yeah, Toby, go to the gym. If you're going to be Spider-Man, get some curls in.

He didn't care anymore. Didn't care. Get a little under chin. Come on, brough. That hair. Dude. So we haven't talked about this at all. Yeah, we haven't gotten to the juice.

So all the nonsense. And my wife, you'll get a kick out of this. My wife walked in as I'm watching it and he's doing this thing. She's like, she goes, oh my God, he's so white. Ah! And he's just doing this thing. And it's just like, my question is this. I know he's supposed to be.

jerky in this moment. And I'm, and it's, I don't know if anybody can answer this. I know how you're going to answer it. Does he think he looks cool? Yes, he does. Do you think so? Here's, here's the problem. Here's the ultimate problem to me. If the idea it's cartoonishly bad. And it's so much

longer than you think it is. Well, it really is. If the idea is that the symbiate is bringing something out of him and all of a sudden he's able to charm the pants off of Gwen Stacy until she realized she's being used. And why are women looking at him on the street like he's not a lunatic? No, but did you notice that? They did this thing where they tried to make it so not his perspective.

They were uncomfortable. And then they showed his perspective and they were like about it. But then he does that to Gwen and it works. So they're giving exact opposite messages. They were like he's achieving it. He's not achieving it. Like at what point isn't like the symbiate being on him bringing out this? Like I know it's bringing out this false confidence.

But why isn't it making him a little more coordinated? Like he's much stronger as Spider-Man. Why is Peter Parker can't he all of a sudden? He's just such a dork. And then the stuff. 82 public thrust. And the stuff, and the Sam Ramiisms, which are not as present in this one as it is as it is in the second one.

News broadcasts. The news broadcasts with the Sandman. I hated that straight. And then the Spider-Man, what are you going to do? And there are is a camera like Doc Ok to. You know, there are there are isms. But they're just not as heavy as in two.

But in, but the one that, oh, where was I? I had one that he did. Oh, stuff the, the, find us some shade. Oh my God. Where are we? Eddie Brock, like, I'm going to put some dirt in your eye. What was that expression? Right.

No, I mean, look, we've talked about this before. He kind of went Silver Age with this entire trilogy. But none of those lines of dialogue are in the first two to that level. Like, all of a sudden, like, what's he's saying? Jay Jonah Jameson does what he's allowed. He's 60. He's the only character in all three films. Hot legs.

Yeah. Which has been consistent and been the one shining light through all three. That's why he came back first. That's why we welcomed him. Welcome to him. Welcome to the MCU. The little kid with the camera. 100 bucks.

That's high robbery. That's so good. And the film's extra. And that's straight from the comic book. That is exactly Jonah. I'm surprised Jonah didn't offer her a job, though. Because that would have been the ultimate, like, you'd be like, fire me in 20 years, kid. I respect the hustle.

I actually liked a lot of the bugle stuff. Oh, yeah, always. I thought it worked pretty well. Oh, the pill stuff was great. Amazing. Because he has a heart condition in the comics. Yeah, when she keeps buzzing in and he's trying to keep it down. See, that was funny.

And it showed you, it actually showed you Elizabeth Banks' chops. Yeah, at that point we didn't really know. And it also, like, yeah. Also the Betty Brandt scene where he's like all up on Betty Brandt and she's okay with it. There's so many scenes where like he's assaulting women and we're like, that's fine. I mean, the times, it was actually 15 years ago, those aren't acceptable times. But like, why are we like Toby is the good guy if he's like licking strangers? And what no, it was, to me it was less about that because he wasn't, because he wasn't a, he was, because he had the same unit and he was doing this stuff.

to me it was less about why is he doing that and more about why is she hot for it. That's what I'm saying like the waitress at the jazz club she's like oh she seemed a little pissed off though they did both yeah in the beginning it seemed like it yeah it's true so here's the other legs he calls her I've gone back full circle as to why Parker has a job at the day of the movie yeah and I'll tell you why though

he throws the dude in the glass and they're like oh we're just horsing around he says well well it's not even it's not even that again you are now dating my son's ex-fiance who left at the altar for you, right? So I can see Jonah being like, I need his Spider-Man photos, so you'll never get a staff visit. They don't explain why Peter never is offered the staff position. That would have been a good, throw-in. If you do that, I will not give you the staff-a-sit because of what that is.

One line. One line, if he says to him, he goes, how come I don't get it? I've been here forever. How come I don't... Because you stole Mary Jane Watson for my son. Because the girl that you're dating right now left my son, and I spent thousands of dollars on that wedding. That's why you don't have a job.

And then literally, when he comes in and bust Brock and at the same, now it still makes sense where he's like, damn, I guess I have to because he did do exactly what I need a journalist to do. Yeah. But before that, that is all you need to shut him down. But what it shows me is that if that whole scene happens when he throws him into the glass, if I'm getting an argument with somebody in the, I'm going to throw them into a bathroom stall and go, we're just, we're just forcing around. There's no rules in the daily Google. No rules. We're just, it's crazy. Yeah, it's all right.

We're good. And then, you know, it's, there was just too much. The movie is an absolute mess. I thought it was worse than I remember. So at the top, we said you guys thought it was better than, it was bad. I was, but I was expecting, like, oh, my God, when is this over? I didn't because to me, when I was watching the movie, I'm going, this could have been better if you did this. That was a really good scene.

That moment was good. There was some emotion. And I was right. Everybody's crying in this movie. Everybody cries in this movie. Peter's crying when he, when Mary Jane leaves him. He's crying at a different point. He does cry when Harry dies.

He cries when he's happy. Maybe he's in shock. Harry cries at one point. Mary Jean cries. Bruce Campbell's scene was funny. He seems, yeah. Bruce Campbell's him was funny. Even the way that the movie ended.

So it ends with them having the final conversation and then they hug. And it just credits roll. It was so abrupt. It literally felt like, you know what's a soprano's ending. After two hours and 20 minutes. After two hours. After two and a half hour movie to end with the same ending as the first one and credits is just unacceptable. But you said consistency

Jay Jonah Jameson? He's the most consistent. There's one of the person is very consistent. I'm going to say Danny Elfman. Oh, the strings in this. The score is... The score is pretty great.

There's a part where he's... With that classic, and he's going up and then he gets hit and it goes into like a different... The music is fantastic. The goblin fight in the opening holds up way better than I would have expected. And it's way more Sam Ramey's directing

than I give Chris. credit for. So there are certainly good things. But to me this is like, it went from a C to a D-D-minus. It's bad. It's just the, it's the Fred Flintstone bonged that like turns him into, that's my best palpete. That goofy smile the whole time. Yeah, he's such a weird like, what was that, what was the character in

Tropic Thunder that Downey plays before? Special. Frank Lazarus? Simple Jack. Why is he Simple Jack the whole movie? Like, it's a really uncomfortable. Stiller does that. Stiller is Simple Jack. So yeah, he's simple Jack and he's like just like, go up and along. I love my friends and die for him.

When he's got the amnesia part, yes, I still, but the, but the, who, the, the butler,

whose, whose dad is that? He was in all three, but like he did, that was the one moment that like we, like you said, someone's dad,

he should have played a droid in Star Wars. Harry, your father was so good to me. I'm glad. And by the way, I could have told you this two movies ago, but Spider-Man didn't kill your father. Do you want me to get

some takeout? Sam's so upset that he hired that guy six years ago. He's like, I gotta use him with its continuity. I've got it. And again, this is the only movie he stood out to me. I didn't even realize there was any other two movies. Yeah. Knock rate. No. I just don't. He's gotta be somebody's somebody. It's the best boy. I just, there's so little

redeemable in this compared to like what there needs to be and I really was hoping to defend it. And that's why I wanted to start by saying it's not a good movie. I just remember from everybody really crapping on it all the time and saying how terrible it is. It's like it just, it's disappointing. No, it's just disappointing because there's like, if you would have,

and I don't blame me for this because of all the, because of how open it is of how meddling the studio was, this was three and four in one movie. Yeah. And it should have just been three. I love your cliffhanger idea. Like that would have been exceptional, especially introducing the villains that were going to introduce

actually tie in nicely. Yeah. I just, I just, it's funny, just looking back on, on this, Spider-Man 2 is not nearly as untouchably good. And Spider-Man 3 is not as, like, disgustingly bad. I think, again, for Spider-Man 2, it drops from, like, an A-to-an-a-minus for me, and then Spider-Man 3 comes from, like, an F to, like, a D.

You know? And maybe, you know what I'm saying? Because, again, there were small things that if you would just change course just a little bit again, watch what if? We both see it as a D. It's just yours was lower. I think we're at the same page.

Mine had just been higher. You started lower. There are certain movies when you watch it, and, like, especially you feel like anything, like, where it feels like work, and you're like, ugh, I can't believe it. And that's how I felt going into this. Yeah.

Watching it, though, I didn't feel that way. The opening act really won me over. Like, I was just watching it. And I was like, okay, I don't, I don't hate that I'm watching this movie. It's just like, I don't like it. But I don't hate that I'm watching it. You know what doesn't make sense to me? This is the symbol of him becoming a bad boy.

His stupid hair. The hair is so soft. Again, my wife goes, what's with the hair? That's emo is hell. That's not angry and aggressive. That's emo is my chemical romance. Like, Peter Parker. It was so silly.

It's nothing. to do with the actions, nothing to do with the character, and it doesn't work at all. If he had slicked it back and it'd been like that kind of like sleep, then I would have bought that. Good acting. Good acting is done with the eyes. It doesn't need to be done. Like, and I know it's taboo to bring up Mill Gibson, right? But like one of the best performances I've ever seen in a film ever is Braveheart where he's, it's the Battle of Sterling.

Or no, it's not Sterling. It's Falkirk when Robert de Bruce betrays him. Yeah. So if you know the movie well, I know you do. So, um, he, no, no, no, you know, it's even, you've never seen Braveheart, oh my God, calm down. But, but, but I'll just, I'll just give you the, I'll just give you the, I mean, it's history. So, you know, whether it's, whether it's, it's kind of revised history anyway, but, but, but, but either way,

he gets betrayed and he's on the battlefield. And when you see, he doesn't say work. Yeah. He's just in his eyes, it's like, because the character is just this, boom, boom, boom, go for it, freedom, everything, you know, and his heart and he just doesn't give up. You see him quit. Yeah.

On the battlefield. Robert Bruce even says it. I saw it in his face when I took it from him on my battlefield. Yeah. And you saw what he's talking about. That's what's done in the eyes. You don't need a freaking haircut to show it. You don't need a haircut to show you.

In your eyes, in the movements and everything, this stupid snapping thing. Dude, the hair flips. He does two, like, it's atrocious. He's doing this just unaccepted. This is Sam Ramey going, let's make this fun. And it wasn't fun. It just became a Sam Ramey moment of this,

that that was, the directing was bad there. I don't care how much studio involvement was. The dancing and the snapping and the jazz club nonsense. What I hate is that the song that is associated with him going over, the, like I actually like that song that remix they did, except because of the action associated with it, it's completely just bastard eyes going forward.

Also, his actions in the jazz club while that's playing are even more revealing than the train scene. He's actively acting as Spider-Man, to the jazz club. He's swinging from chandeliers. He's climbing and he's jumping up like, guys, Peter Parker's Spider-Man. Right. Nobody is like, he does tons of stuff like this. Like we talked about. Which is unacceptable.

What's that? The wasting Gwen Stacy is unacceptable. Like the use of Gwen Stacy. So Gwen Stacy, the beauty of Gwen Stacy is she matures Mary Jane as a character. The beauty of Gwen Stacy is that she's Peter Parker's equal in intelligence. And they did that in the 60s. He made her dits in this. Gwen Stacy was like, what's that 67 they introduced her.

And that means this was when women were like barely allowed to vote. and they made her a mental equal to our scientists. That's so progressive. And then they make her a model for some reason? She's kind of a... Which Mary Jane actually is. She's not a bad person in this. She's just kind of ditsy and just kind of like...

They mentioned she's a lab partner. Yeah, right. Tight. And the thing is, though, when you realized... At the time when you saw it, you didn't know this, but when you realize what Bryce Dallas Howard is capable of... Oh, my God. And even when you hear her speak...

Yeah. Just as a director. You're like, that's how you used Gwen Stacy? Yeah. Yeah, it's extra insulting. Yeah, extra insulting. You cast perfectly and then you waste her and then you make her a lesser Mary Jane. Right.

In reality, Mary Jane's kind of a lesser one's crazy. Because what they're thinking is that because I think the whole direction of what they did with that relationship between Parker and Mary Jane, they wanted you feel a specific way with them because, like I said, when she's running away from that wedding, we're supposed to as the audience go, yeah, go to him when you're not even considering what you're doing to that guy and his family. It was just the wrong choice because Peter has had a number of love interest. This is a moment, especially if you're teasing the idea for Spider-Man 4 that Black Cat comes in, have Felicia Hardy come into this. Yeah, yeah. And let that be, because Felicia has always been a little, like she's, she comes from money, I mean, my money, but she comes from money,

so she's a little hoity-to-dy, but she pulls out the bad side of Peter. Right. So if you do that, and he's leaning into this, and Mary Jane finds out, that wakes way more sense than him using Gwen as a pawn. I just thought they used the, to waste. And I think it's also from the time. of when they're filming, but I think that they rely too much

for the three movies on the love story. It's too much about just Mary Jane and just the relationship is bad. Right. It's unhealthy. I think that the way that they do it was Indyah and Peter, it's like he clearly is in love with this girl,

but the missions and everything else that they put forward. That's the main thing. But it's so powerful that the relationship that it has with her that it's more meaningful. Yeah. And you understand.

And when she's accepting, of it. And even in the trailer for this new one where she's just like, he's essentially doing this. And there is that selfishness. He's doing it so she doesn't forget. Yeah. She doesn't want her to forget. So like that stuff it works when it's not like, it doesn't need

to be the focus of everything. He's driving in the dopey scene when he loses the ring and then he, the ring apparently is falling for like 20 hours and he finally catch a day. That doesn't make sense to me. Even with slow motion and everything, I'm like that, yeah, that would have hit terminal velocity real fast.

So you slamming into a wall, having time to be like, bo, pooh, bo, bo, bo, bo, bo, bo. And then jumping out. It's a ring. It's a little bit. Also, he has a spider sense so he can kind of sense things a little better. He doesn't have Superman's supervision where he can be like, it's all the way over there. And also bothered me, speaking of the spidey sense, it also bothered me how fat. It's similar to my problem with Iron Man 1, right?

Like when I was messed up. Jeff Bridges, Zebediah. Obadiah. Obadiah. Obadiah. Obadiah. So an Obadiah. Zepadaya.

That's a good one too. His brother's up Adai. Obadiah liked that technology too much to the state on the fall. That's right. But Obadiah, he just even has the conversation with Ralphie from Christmas

story. And Ralphie says, he's like, how come Tony figure this is? I'm not Tony Stark, right? But yet at the end of the movie, he just knows how to maneuver it and it was always my biggest problem with Iron Man. It's the same thing with Venom here. He just, like, he starts slinging the web. Yeah. I know Venom knows how

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G-E-T-Q-U-I-P.com slash big thing. That is quip, the good habits company. Gotta love that quip. That one I know. I brushed my teeth after ate the meat with quip.

Also, but real talk, God, man, why are you thinking all of the things I already use? I've used quip for a number of years. Also absolutely amazing. It also makes you realize nobody's brushing their teeth long enough.

Nobody. And nobody's replacing their shit quick enough. That too. That too. And so it has a two-minute timer so you know, and it'll let you know, cool. You've spent 30 seconds on this quadrant. You spent 30-30. So it just lets you know to do better with how you're brushing your teeth.

It's great. It's smart. And the fact that they have all this technology that they're using with the now two. Clips's great. We've been having, we've been having quips since Shmo's no days. But the fact that came back, we're having, I mean, look, I've been very happy with then I will also jump in once again, guys. Thank you so much for the support that you've shown us on this channel.

We made a big move by taking everything that was non-Schmo-down related to moving it over to this channel. I think the channel had something like 7 or 8,000 subscribers when we moved it to this channel. We just hit the 18,000 subscriber mark. We're trying to hit 20,000 by the end of October. It's a goal, and then we're going to try to hit 25K by the end of the year. That's what we're trying to do. We would love your support. If you're brand new to the channel, please hit that subscribe button.

Please hit notifications. and all of this, like, I understood, like, when you get the Shmodown channel, and everything was on there, whether it was SEM live, Schmodeown. It was a lot. It's a lot. It's a lot. And then it's also, why am I hitting that bell? I'm getting notifications all the time for this.

What I'm telling you get notifications for, three big things a week, which includes this show, obviously, for the rewatch. You get the, the, the, Sith Council rewashes that we do in the show in general, especially when BobaFet comes out, we're going to be doing the reviews of that. And then trailer reviews, reviews, all of it. But I don't bombard you on this channel. We are consistent, but we are also considerate. So please subscribe.

Hit that bell notification. It is very important. And that way you know when we're uploading new stuff. And Apple podcasts. And podcasts and forums, people are really enjoying us on the podcast forms. Hell yeah. It's been going good.

Do you know what else butter end through is missing? What's that? Quips. There was nothing funny. No. You know what? You're right though. There was no,

no, no, I thought you were making a toothbrush joke. I was making it all back together. But you're right. He didn't have that spiny thing. And I know that that's the point. He's kind of miserable. But not the whole time?

The whole time he never had it. He never threw it at the, no jokes at the Sandman. It's literally why I actually prefer Garfield over McGuire. It's because McGuire had a couple of them like the Here's Your Change. Yeah, that was a good moment. Like, hey, Gabby, like stuff like that. But it's like when he called Brock Chump, though. That was good.

Yeah. No, Trump was good. Trump was good. But I give a lot of credit and we'll get into it because that's the next two films we're going to watch to Garfield and that, whether it's the writing or whether that was him doing that instinctively, that was just done a lot better in my opinion.

I'm more excited to rewatch the Amazings than I was these. And that's interesting, just feel. I'm like thinking about next week, I'm like an amp for amazing one. This is where I'm, only because I think it's way more fresher than this one was, I am looking, I'm not looking forward to Amazing Spider-Man too.

That's fair. I haven't seen it a long time. I am because that's going to love. In the way that I wasn't looking forward to this. So I'm wondering if it'll be the same kind of feel. But I remember being in the, like, I wasn't reviewing movies when I saw Spider-Man 3. I certainly was when I saw Amazing Spider-Man 2.

And I remember looking at Ellis being like, why do we do this? Over Sex of the City, too? Because I remember that. That was amazing. Sex in the City, too, we walked out. That's the only movie that we bought out. That review was amazing. It was really, really good.

Like once I had done the Shmowdown and I had like gotten to know you and all that kind of stuff I was like let me see what Mark and Christian were about and I remember you bringing up for Sex and the City 2 review I was like okay I get it now Yeah that's how that's yeah like that I'll show you the end of that before it before we leave It's one of my favorite reviews that and the dumb and dumber reviews that and the dumb and dumber It's probably two of our classic reviews The original dumb and dumber or the one here the boy The dumb and dumber

The sequel no no no the most no no the most recent one the one the one that that they did dumb and number two. Yeah, well, they had one of them thought he had a kid. And they were trying to figure it. I don't remember it. I saw it on TBS for the first time like a year ago. It's not good. It's fresh.

No, it's not good at all. We were excited for it and that went away fast. But either way, there's a lot going on, man. In this movie, for sure, a lot going on. We got going on. I mean, as we said, we just did this one. Like, we have asked this question, so I might as well ask it. I think less than the other two.

Besides the obvious ones of the things we've already brought up, No Way Home tying into this one. Do we think it ties in at all? I want Sandman. Because I think that'd be the only way to redeem this one. Not want. Do you think? I think it's possible.

There's a very quick scene where it looks like Electro attacks sand in the trailer. So it's a possibility. If we need all six. Electro's in the trailer? Yeah, I remember. Very briefly. Jamie Fox spoiled. Jamie Fox's Instagram.

Well, you saw, you saw like a small, like a small, little beam of lightning, you saw a goblin grenade, and then you saw Alfa Milina being like, hey, Peter. And you also saw three frames of, it looks like the lizard coming at Peter in a room. Okay, so that's what I was trying to figure out is which, what our six are. Obviously, Malina, Fox, and Defoe, we know for a fact those three. I'm assuming you're probably going to end up with vulture. Because again, it's sinister six.

They're not going to throw every single villain at him. So then, so then what's left? What, do we want to say, what, Venom maybe, maybe Sandman, maybe Lizard, maybe Shocker, because you had Shocker. Is this the most complex movie that Marvel's ever going to do? Endgame. Yeah, Infinity War Endgame. It's got time heist.

True. It's got time heist and every... Because Eternal is pretty complex. Yeah. Okay. But I'd say it's the most complex Spider-Man movie. Yeah. Yeah.

I like the end-game parallel a lot. The reason why, not just because end-game, though, the reason why is that you're playing within the sandbox. that you've built throughout. But that's a 20 compartmentalized sandbox. It is. It is. There's no doubt about it.

But you're still asking the majority of people who are seeing that movie that hopefully you've seen those other movies that lead up to this, right? You're asking people now to not only see those movies for previous Spider-Man, you're asking them to see other movies

that came before them. Possibly before they were born. Before they were born. Which makes me uncomfortable. But that's just fast. But that's why I'm saying, though, but that's why I'm saying is it, it's... Both of you can burn in hell for that.

It's a risk. It's a risk. I do agree, but I also think that Spider-Man is such an icon. And explaining Tobin-Muars Spider-Man is so simple. Explaining Andrew Garfield, Spider-Man is so quick. The villains are going to be the thing. And that's why I think there's a possibility that Tom Holland goes into their universes instead of them coming to ours. I think he might meet them in their worlds. I think he might get trapped going through multiverses and have no way home.

I do like that theory. I know that theory. Oh, man, they got so mad at me. I like that theory. Oh, did they? Oh, dude. Spider-Man fans are the worst. I love Spider-Man.

Because you said Tom Holland might go to theirs, Spider-Vervus? His idea is called No Way Home. My idea is that at the end of this Spider-Man film, he has no way home. He's not in the MCU anymore. And the Spider-Man Twitter is a lot. So I just like acknowledge that I can't deal with them. I even made a tweet like the first rule of Spider-Man Twitter is don't engage a Spider-Man Twitter. Second rule of Spider-Man Twitter, don't engage a Spider-Water.

They literally were yelling at me like I wrote the damn thing. And I'm just theorizing. I even wrote, I'm just telling y'all, I think maybe. I put all the caveats I could. Yeah. It's called No Way Home. And he's jumping through multiverse. This is all your fault.

It is. Guys, I wrote it. I'm sorry. Why would you tweet anything? Who do I think I am? Just turn Twitter off. Just do it here. And don't look at the comments.

Just, yeah. Talk amongst friends and then just do that. You're smart. You're retweet. You just like, you let other people get the heat. You're just like, I'm up. There it is. That's it.

You just stay out of it. Unless you need to push a De Smodown thing, you're just like, I don't. How often do you guys see me? Schmode out only. It's always weird. When it happens, I'm like, although I did an Eternals thing the other day.

I put my thoughts out about Eternals. And the other day, like someone had told me about, which I've been singing at the rafters about, they're talking to David Chase about a prequel series. Yes, yes. Not movies, series. Series. Serious Sopranos.

No, no, no, for Sopranos. And I, and I, so I did, yeah, my eternal. So I just wrote, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. And that was it. That checks out. I saw your Returners review and I was like, man, he did like this. Look at him on Twitter. Look at him making a character count.

I know. Yeah. I will say the one thing that has been funny, and you kind of call that this would happen with our Spider-Man 2 talk. We had some people be like, I respectfully disagree with what you're saying for these reasons. We said people, these guys are effing moron. How dare you? It definitely devolved from one to two.

That's the greatest comic book movie of all time. They clearly don't know what they're talking about. You know what's funny? I saw less of that, though. You saw Langellas. When we were with a hell of people when it was premiering, or not hell, there was one dude. Oh, watching it live. But we're watching it live.

There was one dude that was just like, they're boomers. They don't know what they're talking about. Oh, they kind of called his boomers. Boomers made me laugh so hard. See, the premiere, I didn't see the, I didn't see the live chat. Boomers. I paid attention to the comments to the comments because I respond to everybody. Yeah.

So that's why I knew how had a lot of work. The live chat, yeah, whatever. It's another animal. It's fine. It was hilarious. They're clearly boomers. They don't know what they're talking about. And then he tried to explain because someone was like, they're not.

He's like, boomers means this. The guy was like, no, it doesn't. Exactly. Like, I get that it is taking a slight slang term to just mean like you're acting like an old fuddy-duddy. Yeah. But it was a stretch. Like, on top of the fact that. if you literally go right outside that video and look at any of the things that the three of us are doing.

Or perhaps our Spider-Man things. I actually had a conversation with somebody about, speaking of Sopranos, like, so someone's like, well, you clearly aren't telling the truth because, though, I'm like, or I didn't see it the same way you saw it. Art subjective? We watched things differently. And like, so we're going to have opinions on whether it's Amazing Spider-Man, Amazing Spider-Man, too, and the New Holland movies, right?

And there are some people out there that just hate the Holland movies because they're the MCU. and that's the only reason they hate them. Like, it's so funny to me. Like, there's such a divide in it, which is so bizarre. It's like people who treat both D.C. and MCU, like you're either rooting for the Red Sox or the Yankees. It's bloods and crazy.

But what, and both are guilty where a DC comes out of it. Well, it can't be good. Or a Marvel movie comes out and goes, it can't be good. There's none of the movies that you like. None. Like, you see the most hardcore DC fan. I know.

Every movie that you put them, You didn't like one of them. And in the MCU fans who watched, well, the DC's too dark, there's not one of them that you like, get the fuck out of here. And that's the thing that's so stupid about that. She was like, oh. I'm saving mine for me. It's just such a stupid stance to take.

It really is in the sense that, don't get me wrong, there's a large chunk of the DCU that needs some hardcore revamping. There's a lot of the MCU that is exactly the same. I agree. Honestly, like for me, and that's why I like the Turnals, it goes away from the formulaic crap that they keep doing. And that's what I've heard about so far, other than somebody in the industry almost ruining the idea of press releases.

I stayed away from it. Yeah, we talked about it too. But I, like, Jay almost ruined it multiple times because he was like, bro, you're going to open up the internet and it'll be there. I was like, no. I didn't touch the end of that entire day. And like, I tweeted out that I avoided it. And then someone tweeted it at me.

And luckily I didn't. You know what's so funny, though, is that, and again, we're not going to spoil anything of you. But like, even if I would have gotten spoiled for that particular thing, I wouldn't know what the hell is going. So it would have affected me a lot more than you. We're going to talk about it in the spoiler review. Like, I legit turn to Quaygo, explain that to me.

There was literally like four or five times. He was like, what's what's going on? That's why I brought him. I was just like, I was Wikipedia. I was like, I had to pee real quick. I said, I'm good. Coe's there. Yeah.

I was like, come back. I was a blue link. You came back. You're like, click the link. Let's explain what's going on. And that was it. Just let me know this. How are Camille and Brian Tyree Henry?

Exemplary. Okay, great. That's all I need. If they're good, I don't give a crap if the movie is complete garbage because I love both of them. Not good, not great. Exemplary. There's no way.

Any person that sees this movie and says it's complete garbage, it's an imbecile. If they say they don't like it, sure. Garbage is bad filmmaking. Right. Garbage is not going to make a bad film. Dude, it is so different. Does it need to be 240? No.

That's my only concern. Am I cool with it that it is 240? Oh, well, that's all I need to be here. So, but it's not, it might not be for you. Save it for the, save it for the non-spoiler, Chris. We got it's coming. We got a lot. We got a lot.

We're going to talk about Eternals. That's coming out on Monday, so you saw a little preview of it. My short review of the Eternals is coming out on Sunday when the embargo lifts. The Eternals non-spoiler episode of Big Thing with myself and Koi will drop on Monday. And then when it's, I think after the movie comes out, we'll drop our spoiler review. The following Monday after the weekend. We're not going to be monsters. We don't need to do this until, until the right.

right when it comes out. Maybe like, you know, the Friday or... Because I want to see it again before as well. I might have to ask off for Friday next week because I need to go see Eternal. You're going to see it, man. I guess I got to see it.

And then June, and I'm going to do... And I'll put my review up with June. There's going to be three... We have three videos coming out tomorrow. Or today, actually, rather. It might even be up at this point. So, Dune... I saw it last night.

Did you like it? I love something. All right, so let's... You went to the Greg's... Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, listen. That's our show. I'm excited.

I'm excited. that we did this show. Next week is Amazing Spider-Man with Andrew Garfield. We are going to, man, we're plowing through these. We finished the three. Now we get into Amazing Spider-Man one and two, and then we're going to get in. We're not doing Civil War. We're not going to do end game or we're just

going to do, we'll do the two Holland Spider-Man's, then we'll close it out with him to the Spider-Verse. But that's it as we lead up to No Way Home. Please subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts or Spotify or anywhere that you can find podcast. even if you are listening to this overall, or excuse me, or commenting it and video, like it helps us get phenomenal sponsors

like Butcher Box and Quip. That is what helps keep us on the air. We don't do donations here. We don't do Shmobots. I don't do any of that stuff. So we need your help. So download our episodes, and thank you for subscribing.

Listen to something else. I was just going to say what we could probably do because I know that people have already done this, we could just, instead of watching all of Civil War and Game and Infinity War, just watch the cut-out scenes of Spider-Man,

because I think it's still important to the lore of what's happening with the Holland movie. Should we do an episode of his scenes and movies? Like, should we do a... Maybe just adding it, maybe just adding it to... To homecoming, to homecoming, or maybe even before we start homecoming. We could do Civil War attached to homecoming,

Infinity War and Endgame attached afar from home because they connect so directly. We'll figure it out. Okay. We still got Garfield to go. Either way, there's a lot to come, and we're going to be doing rewatches of Matrix and so much stuff going on in this channel, guys.

Thank you for joining us. Very happy to have you here. Thanks for joining us on the Big Thing. See you next time.