The Kristian Harloff Show - REWATCH! The Dark Knight Rises (2012)

Episode Date: February 25, 2022

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in our ever-capable lineup of SUVs. Kia, movement that inspires. Call 800-33-34-4-Kia for details. Always drive safely. All right, everybody. It is the Dark Night Rises. It's the last movie that we're going to rewatch before we get into seeing the Batman. All three of us are going to see the Batman.

We're going to do our spoiler-heavy big thing on Monday, the Monday after it comes out, obviously. So we're pumped about that. And man, the Dark Night Rises is the third movie in the Nolan trilogy. It is the seventh movie that we have watched so far. Why do we only watch seven? I wish I knew. Well, we only had seven weeks. to do it. So we have a lot of things going on, obviously. Make sure that you guys subscribe. Look at that.

I got a like button in there for you, too. For those people who already have shown some class and subscribed, you can now show just a little bit more by clicking a like on this video. Subscribe to this channel, hit the notification button, do all of that. It is very, very important to do so. And I'm so excited to get into this with Coy and Winston. And I have to be honest, the main reason is to show you guys the thumbnail I made. Look at this. Welcome back, everybody. You should just like talk over this And not even show our faces That thumbnail is so sexy

I just I find it hard to believe that Joe ass Went into like after effects Actually set up Did you actually draw that Or you found the images When you just did a good job Well I don't Computer computer genital

Hey man you know Christian doesn't do anything In a week to put us together Chris don't do a damn thing man Drew it Drew it By hand Yeah I did I drew it Via computer dog

I did it Look I couldn't even draw stick figure in a computer. I just found the image. I found a bunch of images and I put it together and I and I went through and I look at that. Look at that. That's impressive. Isn't it good?

That is impressive. So that's that's what I'm going to. That's the thumbnail and I'm very excited for this. So that's it. So that's it. It's a thumbnail ad. That's all this is. I did it.

It's just a teaser for next week. I'm excited for the movie. It's coming out. So Winston and I are going to see it today. Coy's going to see it on Wednesday. Yeah, got to do that on Wednesday. That gives us enough time that we'll be able to kind of break it down, similar to what we did with Spider-Man, and we're ready to rock. But I saw Winston had texted.

We always do these little group texts before, as we're getting into it. It's like we're watching it. Yeah. Winston had wrote was that it's a good movie, but it's sloppy, right? There's definitely some sloppy stuff. And somebody editing is sloppy. And that's so strange compared to the rest of Nolan's work. It's true.

And I don't know if it was rushed or not. But like, so you know what I, what I noticed that kind of. And I think that there's, you could see the whole thing, I think, in the deleted scene. When they show, there's, there's, they show the, um, one of the lawyers that the first guy you see when he goes out into the ice and he falls through the ice, you see that. They, they do a montage of the courtroom with Bain standing in the same. Yeah, you see it again. Right. You see it again.

It's a really bad ending. It's like, it's clear as day that that was what it was. The exact scene. Really bad. But they also, and this is like, I mean, this is, whoever hates me on Twitter is going to hate me more. But I worked on this movie and they shot that scene like over. and over again and from different angles. So it's almost like they knew they needed a few options to use in a montage.

Because like filming it, like we covered it. But they're like, no, let's get another one. And I was like, what was? And then it's funny watching the movie seeing, oh, that's why we covered that so much. That's why. And there was a scene that I'm in that literally I didn't know we were filming. Like they were sometimes just using B-roll. So like I was one of Bains Hengen, so the guys of the Red Scarves and stuff.

And there's a shot where they cut to an IMAX shot and all the cars are stacked up blocking Gotham. And there's two mercenaries like wandering around and they point up at the cars and all that stuff. I'm one of those guys. we didn't know we were filming. I didn't know we were filming. So there was literally like a thing that I didn't know I was in when I was watching the movie. I was like, that's me.

So the movie was not the precision that the Batman Begins and Dark Night felt because you wouldn't not know you're in a scene on Dark Night. What was the time frame between Begins Night and Rises? Begins was 2005. Begins with 2005. The second one was 2008 and this one was 2012. Four years longer.

But if I'm not mistaken, inception was in between this. Yeah. I just have a gut feeling that it was just... Year before, I think, or two years before. Something like that. And so I think what's just going on here is maybe there's just too much on Nolan's play. Yeah, and we'll remember also, the other thing we got to remember is that the script changed

dramatically because of what he was doing. Granted that he passed away in 2008, but there's still, there was, it wasn't set in stone. I remember being on the lot of Warner Brothers and them talking about, do you think he's going to do the third one? And it wasn't set in stone. They didn't know. Like, yeah, I think they really want to push him to get to that third one. And so it wasn't like, yeah, he had four years.

It was it was negotiations in between. It was a matter of trying to get it all done. So I do think that time was probably an issue for short. It's not a small film to squeeze. No, it's not. And it's really, and it's a fantastic film. I would argue one of his best, like after watching one of mine, too, I would say, which is crazy.

Now that I think about it, two of my top five films of all, all time were Nolan. And they were back to back. We're back to it. It was Dark Night and then in the inception. What was the prestige? What was it? I really liked the prestige, but I always saw it recent.

But I'm just saying when went. 06. 06. It was right after begins. It was right. Which is the other reason why it's kind of crazy like that that he did it that fast. Hip hop prestige between Batman and Dark Night. Like, oh, made that.

Here's the thing. There's a lot of good stuff in here as far as like a, as far as like a Batman film and stuff like that. But the one thing, if you want to talk about films and be like Batman's not, in it. I know people love to say it about the Dark Knight. That's more about Rises. It's like, I'm not Batman, I'm not Batman, I'm not Batman. Okay, I'm going to be Batman for five minutes before I get my back broken.

And it's like, I'm not Batman, I'm not Batman, I'm not bad man. I got to fix my back. I'm back in Gotham and there's a war. There's way more, there's way more Batman in Dark Night. But I will say that even though this one, out of the three of the movies, if I was to rank them and I definitely rank Batman begins higher. I always liked it. But after this, but to me, after this rewatch, it's not higher than Dark Knight. but it's closer than it was in the past.

Agreed. Sure. So I have, I still have Dark Night as number one. I have Batman Bingis is the second one. This one is the third. But what I will say about this movie is even, I still thoroughly enjoyed watching it.

I think that Anne Hathaway is a great cat woman. The perfectly fit cat woman for this realistic tone. I totally agree. She does not get enough credit. No, she's really good in it. And she plays, she can turn it on to slim.

What I love what she does. And she slides the ears. That's almost the Christopher Reeve stand up for me. It's that same becoming. It's how she turns it on, though, because she's a con, she's a con woman also. Like when she, one of my favorite scenes, oh, I love that scene. Dude. When she's pretending, when she's pretending that she is, you know, in peril, and then she winds up just, you know, taken off and stealing it.

She's great in that role. Their relationship, by, bye, I understand why they both understand each other. So there's a lot of stuff in this movie that I really like. You talk about somebody who disappears. Alfred disappears in this movie. Well, because he literally leaves. I know, he literally leaves. But, like, he's gone.

And it's like, that dynamic. is lost with Bruce. And the Talia death scene is one of the worst death scenes of all time. Of all time. Like actually. Oh, her getting her. Mary and she legit goes like this.

And that my father's thing is, it's so bad. It's like when seven-year-olds play dead. It should the sound. She makes the seven-year-old sound. That's not her fault. That is Nolan's fault. Yeah.

100%. She's incredible. She's great. Why? And how great she. This is half the count. of Inception. The editor signed off on that.

The director signed off on that. Like how many people I feel like, how do you look at that and you go, that's good one? It's in the final cut. It's terrible. Were there other cuts? Did they just get it in one?

It's really bad. What I also hate is like, I understand making like choices as a director as a writer to like just, you know what? We have the source material. We're going to change it a little bit. Yeah. I even understand making what essentially is Robin and Joseph Gordon

and Joseph Gordon Levitt a cop because you do have the origins of, or you do have the connection, and I'm sure you know about this, Coy, about Dick Grayson at one point becomes like a secret agent instead of a superhero. Okay. So if you want to tie him to some sort of,

I'll buy all of that. But just name, just be like, you should use your legal name. Oh yeah, it's Richard. Do something like, Robin, that's cute. What? Come on.

The last third act. Like literally so far in that you're like, is you robin, he's robin, he's robin, robin. Stupidest thing I've ever. Just call him Richard or something and then call it a day and you go, oh, shit.

Well, because what I think they were going to try to do, it was, and they certainly, it looked like that, by the way the movie ends, it looked like, you know, if this is successful enough, we'll give Joseph Gordon-Levin. His franchise. And people are like, eh. Yeah. It's not that he's bad in it. And he's fine. He's fine in the movie. I actually really like his character, to be honest with you. I like this character too. And I think that what he's able to do and his, and his motivation, I think is there with the orphans and the fact that he's an orphan and the idea that he figures it out really quick. I was, I was going to say that's more, ironically, that's less Dick Grayson. that's more Tim Drake. And that's Robin of the era that everyone kind of pulled from with this movie. Right, right. That was more Tim Drake. Yeah, exactly.

I don't know if you know Christian, but essentially what happened is Tim Drake being obsessed with Batman and Robin and then realizing that Robin had left was just probably the greatest detective amongst all of them. I actually did know that, but I have to say, but I have to ask this, who is Drake? I don't know that. I don't know that. I wish I knew. I wish I knew.

That's why we're here. But he figures it out. on his own. He literally, with his detective skills, goes, I have deduced the Bruce. Is him Drake the second Robin or something? Yes. The third. The third. Jason Todd is made. Yeah. Jason Todd gets killed by a Joker. And then, that's why Batman's like no more Robbins. So he's the first. So he's the first. So how does Grayson? Dick Grayson's the first. He moves on. He goes up to nightwing. He's tired. He's tired of Bruce telling him what to do. So he says, go through yourself, becomes Nightwing. Goes to Blood Haven. So Todd gets smashed with the

Crowbor. Yep. And then Batman's like no more Robbins. And then this kid's so smart. He has no choice because he figured out as everything. Which is a cooler origin story. arguably than anything because it's like I'm a detective too let me in and and this robin's definitely much more Tim Drake Robin but this one plays nightway but what I will say of agreeing with Winston's text as much as so there's two things with this movie this movie to me is the most kind of commercial superhero Batman movie out of the three of them sure got some weird Adam West flavors yeah I mean they're well the bomb and and the but they're I mean not as not as not as Tim Burton it's not as Schumacher stuff but there is it's got more of that kind of there is that more

of the cartoony Batman, but like it's one that you would see on TV. But this is a cool, a cool cartoon, right? Because you've got to suspend a lot of disbelief for a lot of things in here. Because they never explain, like nobody can get through. Nobody, he needs, he shows up. He shows up. And it's not like, well, he's Batman.

Yeah, but the thing is he's there to try to find Morgan Freeman. Right. He's there because he needs to get his stuff. So how did he get in? No, so how did he get in? At that point. That's what I'm saying. Like he's not.

Yeah, they never explained how he got in. Wait, wait, wait, get into, get into the city. How did he get into Gotham? Okay, I will give a pass on that one. Okay, tell me how. The reason why I'll give a pass on that is it's damn Batman, bro. No, but, but that's the whole point. He's going back there to get all his stuff.

Right. You're saying, you're saying, wait, wait, wait. He's Bruce Wayne at that point. He's Bruce Wayne. He doesn't, like, so the question is, like, he's got the mind of Batman, but doesn't have anything. I'm okay. Like, if you answer me, he's Batman, like, when you start to say, well, how did he get infiltrate, you know, Bain's stuff and all that.

He got his stuff back from Frost and he's running around doing this. Okay, great. Because in the same way that when he disguised himself in comics in the animated series, his matches Malone, just because he doesn't have the cowl on, he's doing all the, and he still has the resources. I know where he's broke.

No, he didn't. He didn't have the resources. Time out. I know he doesn't have necessarily, I've got my full cow and all that. I'm saying Bruce Wayne for I'm broke is never really broke. Homi is able to get cross, cross the world in what like 12 hours

because the bomb's about to blow and him getting him getting in that's just what he does I give a pass for that honestly but the thing is like so I know how he got out of the hole he climbed up he did this thing a great scene why we didn't see him in Gotham all of a show me how he got in just so bro we were almost at three hours

you wanted more I wanted five minutes for that that's a big one just for that's a major one that's because because if they didn't make such a big point out of the fact that no one can get in no one can get in and I get that they said If anybody comes in, they said if anybody comes in, well, we're watching. Yeah.

So that basically means is if not, if it, hey asshole. To, to Bruce Wayne. No, what you say to Bruce Wayne is, hey asshole, why don't you show the cops the secret way in? If nobody saw you come in. Well, because. But I'll tell you why. I'll tell you why. You already got 3,000 cops that are just waiting to be set free.

That's the first thing. And second of all, nobody Batman like Batman, bro. They're going to obviously run their mouth. They're going to say something too loud. They're going to kick because guess what? They sent them in. I guess. And they got killed.

And they still didn't know that Talia was Talia yet. They were like, how do they keep figuring out what we do it? But I like, I like the Talia stuff in the way that they did in the setup from the whole, the way, even what they did. Who was the actress that played the young girl? She's somebody. The one who played young Talia. Oh, young Talia?

Yeah. She's, she's been in stuff. It's not, it's not Joey King, but who is it? I've seen her in other stuff since. I also, I feel like, I mean, we haven't talked about one, the climbing scene, we got to acknowledge the the sound design on that is so cool because it was hundreds of fans yeah they had people send in them doing that chant and they put all the the fans together so that's joey king it was joey king oh that's awesome oh wow okay i said wow it was joey king how do you what i did i find it is put

young no no no no not not that i'm looking on i'm db that's not what i'm talking about i meant uh the the chant i never specifically know what they were saying i know it translates to rises yeah i don't think it's in my it's been my phone ring yeah it's been my phone ring for you i did No, that's great. So we used it initially for corruption's theme song. And I kept it on my phone and I still have it. That's hundreds of Batman fans. I just love that.

And it's my, and so. Kissing Booth girl, got it. Yeah, so it's my daughter last night. She had, she wandered in. She saw me watching Dark Night Rises and she heard that part. She's like, is your phone going on? That's so funny. So we haven't talked about Bain yet.

Yeah. I, really? I like him more than people do. I'll tell you. I'll tell you. Do people not like Bain? No, no, no, no, no. I liked him until this watch through.

And I'll tell you why. And it was something that you said. Everything building up to it because people were actually like, who has better bars, honestly, Thanos or Bain? And I kind of think you got to give it the edge to Bain, but like how his mind is working. It's closer to the Bain that we want. What I am getting sick and tired of,

stop making Bain someone else's goddamn henchman. I understand that. That's the part that frustrates me. So, so, I feel, When it comes to that, because they set him up as this kind of indestructible kind of beast, right? But I do like the idea because the one thing with the tear, and he gets taken out pretty easily as, as Catwoman comes in, blows him away with the thing, and that's the end of it.

Yeah. So he does go out quick. So I'm going to, I'm going to agree that I don't love the way he goes out. But overall throughout them. I like the journey he's going with him. I like that his intelligence, he's a techition. He's got the mind. His fighting?

Yeah. The brutality of that first thing where he breaks the cowl. And even on the. on the steps. Yeah. That's the beach. I felt like I was watching Warrior again.

Yeah. He's throwing those shots. But that's the thing. I think it's just from the standpoint of if you spent all this time like we're going to go to Disney World. It's going to be awesome.

Oh my God. Look at all the attractions. You show up. Mickey's there. You're shaking hands with Captain America. This is incredible. I can't wait. We're going to go on the Guardians ride.

It's all I really wanted. It's finally time. And you get there. Folks, ladies and gentlemen, I am so sorry. but Guardians is broken. Everybody get off. And that's what it felt like.

It was all this buildup, all this build, oh, God, he's killing it. And then it was like, you're actually just someone's kind of henchman bodyguard all over again, which we hate. Just like you did with Poison Ivy

in Batman and Robin. And I just, I don't have a problem with him being more associated with the League of Shadows. I also don't have a problem with him associated with Talia, but to make him essentially the second, that's not.

I know, but you, remember what you said, though. You said the other day where you believe this to be like, if not the best, trilogy of all time, right?

Yes. So in order to do that, in order to link that in, you've got to wrap it up. You've got to link in stories one, two, and three. And that's exactly because they do that very well in this movie. That's as much of the, as much of the criticisms that we can definitely say, whether he shows up. It's more of a three-act act than we, the entire movie plays into all of it. It starts from the Harvey Dent stuff, which is a very prominent role in this, and how it's, it's plaguing Gordon.

Gordon needs to get it out there. And he's not even the one that does it. Bain is the one who ultimately does it. But that whole thing and how that ties into Dark Night. And then the connection of him leaving for all those years, but then jumping back to Razal Ghul and the League of Shadows and the stuff that they did and the scene that they do and they bring Liam Neeson back in.

If Bain is just this one kind of rogue guy on his own. I don't disagree. Yeah. But I think he should have been leading, not following. Right. I would have happened. That's it. I think there's definitely being the instead of being the Tali.

Or a partner of Talia. Like the subservient nature of it was. That was the issue. It's not necessarily the reveal as tall. but if they had genuinely been as leaders of. Yeah, but he's indebted to her, though. He's like, he's indebted to her.

But it doesn't feel like in what regard. Dude, because her dad and the whole week. Her dad was the one who sent him off. Went back to rescue him after. Yeah, so like his life, you know, is in his hands. But I guess that's the part that's like weird to me in the sense that like, I move that stupid thing. I can't see your face.

There we go. I think part of it is the fact that the more you look at it, it's this idea of like the baby was in trouble. was in trouble. Yes. And he kind of came in as this like protective uncle. And then after that, he's like,

cool, thank you for saving me. And now I, like it genuinely feels like I did one for you. You did a solid for me. We're partners in this. And like I, I don't,

I don't, she doesn't, she doesn't order him around. She just, it's like he's, but you feel like the rest of him. He's indebted to her.

It just, it's indebted to him. See, I can balance that back out real fast. Sure. Sure. I mean, they're even Steven at this point.

I don't, I don't, I never got the, I mean, maybe at the very end when she just basically tells him, but look, they all follow the rules of the League of Shadows, though. That's the whole point, is that it's not even necessarily of being a henchman. It's you're following the rules. And the rules, even, even Bain does it when he says it to his guy. He's like, no, my brother, they need to think some of us are on this plane.

Right. And the guy just goes down within it. And that's why I think this movie is better than a lot of people think. I think a lot of people crap in this movie. But that, that beautiful, react structure of this. And also the League of Shadows being used as this under. like we said it about killing murphy yeah killing murphy's in all three movies because it doesn't do the marvel problem where they kill the thing i like that the macro of that is the league of shadows like

not only do they bring killing murphy back for that great courtroom scene showing how you know messy gotham rogues are and he still survives it looks like too yeah and and to be honest like you guys couldn't really see it it's not as clear but um that the the courtroom scene is one of the scenes i did so they shut down um pen station or the whatever the train station here in in la and they actually practically built up all those desks so that was a practical set So you walked into the set and there's hundreds of deaths stacked up. And Killian Murphy is like a fairly small guy, he's a little dude. So he's just walking around.

And then once he climbs up there, you're like, oh my God, it's the scarecrow. Do you know what I remind me of? So do you guys watch, have you ever watched the best Transformers movie, which is the 1986 animated? Oh, yeah, movie's a drug trip. It's the best. So there's a scene in that movie where they're like, guilty or innocent. Yeah.

And they say, innocent, innocent, and they kill the innocent ones, right? So it reminded me of that. when he's just like exile or death. Yeah. And he's just like, fine, death. Yeah. Cool death. By exile.

It reminded me of that scene so much. And I think that what was a bummer about is I really enjoy that scene. I really enjoyed the idea of this kind of kangaroo court thing. But that scene was more on the day is what I was saying is they had Scarecrow. He had the things coming out like the animated series and they had the mask. And the movie had more going. Like they had a full comic comic book accurate scarecrow. And Baines in that scene in the background like doing stuff.

But he actually interacted. And they. There's actually, I don't know if they even filmed it, but I think that it's a deleted scene. I'm pretty sure. There's a scene that I don't know if they filmed where Bain and Scarecrow fight and Scarecrow ties to tear. Yeah, uh, scare, you know, talks to them. Yeah, but Bain's got the filter and he just pummles Scarecrow. There's like tons of super comicky stuff.

What would have been awesome to me and I think that this, if you were still kind of kept the core of the story and I bet you this is what Nolman would have done is if Godham would have done is if Godham is, if Godham is, if we have Heath, then like the Joker. kind of running rampant in one area. Yeah. That, you know, you have a scarecrow in one area. You know, you don't necessarily want to introduce the entire rogue's gallery. But if you haven't really killed all of your villains off, you have this moment where now he has to come in, stop a nuclear bomb, but also prevent the rest of them from just kill, like that would be crazy. Yeah. Then you bring a nightwink, you need them.

And Nightwing's taken care of certain ones. He's taking care of other ones. You've got Catwoman taken care of. That could have been another movie. But it was, I mean, it was already bloated giant three-hour movie. But it was interesting to see. the macro of the League of Shadows work and land. And I think we don't give enough credit to the dialogue of Bain.

I do think we were talking about Thanos bars. Like there's a real beautiful musicality to what Tom Hardy brought to this role. And other people give the voice crap. But I think- It's so incredible. I like it. I think Bain is so slept on. I'm a fan.

I'm a fan of the of Bain a lot, actually. And I think that he's pretty menacing throughout the entire film. And even like that one thing he does even to Ben Mendelsohn, who he just puts his hand here. The feeling control scene. That gives you power over me. Do you think that you are in control? Yeah.

And like that whole, everything about it is just, yeah, I really. The Wall Street sequence, the red, all of it, and I even,

you know, reminds me, it's Rocky 3. And I remember bringing this up during our review. This is Rocky 3. He's, he's clubber lane.

Yeah, 100%. And, Oh my God. He is. He's got, he's got, he's got the bars and he's got the beat down. Holy crap.

And I'm a mohawk. But he's clever laying because, because the, and Alfred is Mickey. Alfred is telling him. He's going to. He can't do this. You can't do it. You can't do it. You can't do it.

And he's just like, you know, it's like, I can't, I can do it. He's faster than you. He's like, do one more. He's like, he's like this. And he even says to him, he's, I'm doing this one thing and I'm out. He's like, you got to do this one thing. And then he goes and he fights him in that match. And he gets his asshole kicked in.

And dude, the back break works cinematically. Yeah. Ellis hates that fight. I love that. I thought that fights. I thought that fights amazing. And I love the catwoman set him up, feels bad about it, you know, and even she tries to haul ass and get out. I mean, man, it's like there's so much, there's a lot of great stuff in this moment. I would say, some people are probably going to push back on this.

I would actually say that Anne Hathaway is a better catwoman than Michelle Pfeiffer. I mean, Doreena just woke up a dead sleep. Dorena literally just started putting a hex on my name, but I say it only in the sense that. Hold on. I'm going to call Dorena right now. Oh, my God. Dude, you're dead in advance. You always got to be starting to something.

I just want to see. We're about to see Bain backman happen. My only reason why and honestly, and obviously she likes. Let me see. It's happening real time. She might not pick up. I mean, it's noon. She might not pick up.

See what happens. Good luck. I don't agree with your statement either. So I want to have it. I'll explain why. I will. It's got to explain to Dorena, though. That's the problem.

She's not going to. She's not going to hear anything. Please don't. She's not going to pick up. It's okay. I'm going to get a text later. Yeah. When this air.

Oh yeah, tomorrow. Sometime tomorrow. Yeah, I'm sorry. Someone will go, hey, DeRita, you need to watch this. This will turn into a Twitter problem. This is now a Twitter problem. That's fine. That's fine. The reason why is just this.

I do not take anything away from Michelle and what Michelle does for certain people in the same way that you can see iterations of different characters. Some people prefer Cavill over Reeve. Not a lot, but there are some people that feel that way, right? It's interpretive.

I think it's very, I think for what the difference is from what you're saying here, Winston, which I agree with you is that for this role and this version of Catwoman, this is an. excellent catwoman in the idea like you couldn't put Michelle Pfeiffer's catwoman in this. Right. It's it's purely,

it's purely from the standpoint that the Michelle Pfeiffer version, again, we're looking at Batman returns and it feels not as much as forever and Robin, but it feels more kind of Adam Westy kind of movie. It's a lot bigger. This is more of the comic book accurate Selena Kyle that I'm used to. And which is why I'm also very excited about Zoe Kravitz because everything I've seen, it's giving me the same level of kind of sass. but like assassin versus the silliness of kind of like even if she was using a whip,

which the Catwoman still does from time to time, like instead of the kind of dancing about it, I would see Selena being like, oh, flip you on a table, like, and even the point where she's like about to use a gun and he's like, no guns. Why you take him a fun out of this? And then she's like, I feel different. Like there's a different level. And I'm honest, the different movie tonalities is why the Nolan trilogy and those four movies stand separately.

But I do feel like that's some of the flaws of this film is a lot of people wanted the more groundedness of the first two. And this one not, it didn't touch Schumacher-Burton, but it got closer to that. Are you wearing a, are you wearing a, are you wearing a, are you wearing? I felt like it was appropriate. Yeah, it was. I always tried to do a little bit of sad. I thought the fur.

No, I'm dead serious. I looked at my glove-in. I went a little fur, actually. The only thing funnier than that is I almost, because I got for Christmas. Because you wore it last week. I got a coat. You wore your Bay-Code one with the, with the, with the, the, with the, the, the, and I almost wore it.

I was like, I'm going to be too hot today. I tried to do it subtle. I tried to be a little, just a little reference. Is she calling back? Every week? No, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's going to have, he's going to have nothing valuable. Yeah, he's calling from his van right now. He's on the river where they dropped that guy off and the fucking water.

He just dropped him off. Exile. If anyone was a Bain Hinchman, it's been stock. 100%. Absolutely. It's like, what do you need? That guy? Also, I got to tell you, dude, see and Tom Hardy walk around with the mask off and having the,

makeup and the tan lines where it was. It was like he was wearing underwear in his face. Like you just had like white right here. Yeah. But he was still terrifying. Like Tom Hardy is sedgeman. He's huge in that movie. What I liked about it also is when he, when he gets in when he, when he, when he, when

Bruce finally hurts him at the end when he, when like, it starts breaking. Yeah. And it's like, even then he doesn't go like, oh, he just knows he's in trouble. Yeah. He just knows. You know, he's a life. Well, he does. This is why I think Tom Hardy is such a good actor.

He does it with his eyes. Yes. If you look at him every time it happened, the first one's like what. How did you, and then he starts, you can see him starting to do what Bain does as a character. Yeah. The minute the venom really starts going or Batman gets some sort of up, he starts, he starts berserking.

Right. And that's what you were talking about. We starts punching the pillar because he's just so frustrated. He's just like, I have to do this or he's going to beat me. It's true. Well, what I would say, the detective stuff isn't as present in this form in the last one. But the tactician stuff because of the Bain is. But I will tell you this, guys, if they were,

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It's secure, and your security, obviously. NordVPN, it encrypts my traffic on both the web and mobile, and you're not worrying about unsecure websites or apps. It's really great, especially if you're on the run. And for me, right now we're on this, we're at studios, and we're doing studio shoots, and if we're doing live events, it's refreshing because I don't have to worry about who's doing what behind the unsecured public Wi-Fi networks.

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I wish I knew. That's right. So anyway, back to, NordVPN's awesome, by the way. You guys should check it out if you haven't. Yeah. No, it's something that I'm trying to look into now.

And I'm probably just used the code because I secure your sites, man. Dude, just did the amount of cyber attacks right now. Topical. If ever. Dude, this movie, man, I don't want to get into too much, but man, watching this movie when we did.

I know. I know. Just like, I don't want to dive in, but it's been, well, it's been harrowing. All of it,

man, watching. And the idea, And I did like that because what it does do, as we mentioned, even though the detective stuff isn't there as much, what is there is the idea. And you guys have mentioned it many times over. Gotham is a major character. Yes. Yeah.

Well, because we talked to Batman begins how each film is a different kind of structure for what perspective of Batman it is. Well, it's who the main character. The first one is definitely Bruce and Batman. The second one is the players of Gotham. So the commissioner. The high up, the high up. And then this is the actual city. The lower.

Like the first one is paralleled. The second one is top down. This one's ground up. And that's what people were saying. I was being hyperbolic about Batman versus Batman Returns. I love that to me, Batman Returns starts from ground up and the next one's higher class down. This does it in a three-act structure. So we actually get Batman first, then the up and down of Gotham.

And that's such an important part of what Batman comics are is it is about the hierarchy of wealth. It is about inequality. I am telling you. But I am going to change your nickname in this modown. What do you got? I'm going to call you almost accurate Janjrew. It's like, whoa. That's how I smote out.

That's how I smote. Because last week, last week we were talked about the guy that was, when I brought up my trivia question about the guys who have been in. Oh, and it was a senator, not a producer. I'm like, which actor was in it? And Koi brings up this guy about he's, and first of all, not only was the guy not an actor. He was a senator. And he wasn't in Batman and Robin.

He was in Justice League and something else. Yeah, he's a producer. So I was almost I agree. So Nikki Kat was the guy that he's the only one. So he gets to showdown points and I was right adjacent. I was right to Jason. Wow. You weren't wrong that the guy was in other movies.

Multiple bad man movies. It's like if some of a certain point of view, you were right. And that's how I live. And I called coy and he told me, apologies. And that was it. That's how we settle things here. That's how we settle.

See, I love just being in a studio again because I'd be like, oh, really? Oh, is that true? Oh, wow. Tell me more. Yeah. We need some milk. That's you after Dr. Doreen calls later, by the way.

That's you. That's coming. I just want any career for it. I'm just saying it's my fault. I said it out loud. Yeah, no, you said it's my fault. Yes.

I think each villain is right for their universe, but I would never compare Fifer and Hathaway. It's not safe. Well, it's an opinion. But I do understand, I understand though for where you're, for where you're going.

Where I'm coming from, right? On 100% as far as you couldn't, for how it's set in that world, like the same could be said for Anna Hathaway. You try to stick Anne Hathaway in that Tim Burton movie. Or Bain in the Bain role. Imagine putting Bain and Batman and Robin. And George Clooney's bat nipples are like, what's going on with this?

Like she goes, she goes, okay, come on, Mr. Monkey. Who are you calling? Right, right. Right. Can you imagine? I mean, so I mean, so I mean. He pulls her out of the dark cave. Like the dog is molded by it.

The other thing I read, though, too, is by the way, and we didn't talk about it in Batman forever. I didn't realize how much Joel Schumacher hated Val Kilmer. Oh, that rival was real. It was in that Val documentary. Wait. Well, they touched on it. But like watch, like he won, he, he was warned, and I know this is not Dark Night Rises, but it's something that we didn't cover.

He was warned not to work with Val, but he's like, yeah, I've worked with some big personality before. He said the guy was just impossible to work with, completely, like, super difficult. And like, they argued all the time and so much so that he asked Warner Brothers to fire him at one point. Wow. So it was like, it was, and yeah, Joe Schumacher talked about it pretty openly. And then George Clooney's just chill, like trying to be Batman.

He's just trying to get by. He's going to refund you. on the street. How do you not love George George George Clinton as a guy? Just the best. I wish I knew. He's got a tequila company. He seems to just go to places. Oh, there is. There he is. Okay. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. Come here, dude. Oh, no. Well, we'll go. We'll keep it going. We'll keep a good. I think Bain is unfairly maligned. I'd say of comic book movie characters.

I think Bain gets more crap per good than anyone else. But I think the only reason why is, and it's just because you and me know him so well, both in the comics and other iterations of it. That's the more accurate. Right. This was as close as we've gotten, and we may probably ever get, if I'm being honest.

No, I think we're going to get an actually, like, race-appropriate one. And there's going to be a tactician and stuff. That's the one thing that's lacking in that regard, and that's all I was saying before, too, is instead of, like, kind of, oh, it's the fact that he's a 40-strong man. Right. He's doing this, like, and I think it's a cool choice. Versus, versus, versus.

Yeah, Bay, just about the fact that, you know, Bain being from Santa Prizka and that whole kind of like, you know what I mean? That is an element as well as his prison raising. Yeah, because he's Latino, right? Yeah, exactly. And that's the whole mass. I don't think that. So as great as Tom Hardy is with the world was very different in 2012 that is today,

I don't think that flies. He doesn't get cast. And that's why I'm saying we will get a more accurate one because I think that's something Matt Reeves will want to do. I think Matt Reeves will want to. You think Bain will come in? I think if they do more than three, yes. I don't think they're going to do more than three.

I think this is going to do well enough. They're going to need to do it. I don't think. I don't, I don't, I can't imagine Oscar Isaac or Pedro Pascal getting that big. But either of them with the acting chops. We need to find, uh, Pedro Pascal's not too. I'm sorry, like France. But I, he's an average bill.

Can we find, we can find more Latino actors and just Oscar Isaac and. Oh, of course. Of course. Of course. I'm just literally. They're using him for everything. No, I don't disagree with you. I do think we need to go outside the box here.

If there's some unknown talent, I'm just saying it, give me that kind of acting chops from either one of them. And then you just need to find somebody that's bigger. That's why I said I didn't think they would necessarily work because they're not big enough. I'm not big enough I'm never going to, because look at Kamala. Oh my God. Camel and John. Thank you. Got you.

Like Kamala Harris. Yeah, right. Camel. But he got cut. He didn't get shocked. Are you kidding? What is like a bucket. Relative to he was, but like what he wasn't from.

I'm saying you got to get a too much. You got to get like honestly, you don't. Also, Tom Hart. he has some tricks though because Tom Hardy changes his trap to lat ratio and I wonder if Camel's gonna keep and they shoot him creatively that dude is probably only about two bills but he looked three I wonder if Camel's gonna stay that big for he so far for obi one he stayed it like he loves he's like he's a gym rat now I respect okay because he's gonna be because he's gonna be a pretty prominent role people pay at least a million dollars well yeah but that's the question to get that

jacked you would be too to get there but the question is they're not gonna pay him to stay there unless they're doing eternal. To an extent. To a, yeah, well, and then that's, that's a whole other question. The nutritionist is the real thing. It's not even the gym,

it's the nutritionist. Of course, the main. But that's what's cool about Tom Hardy is he'll even talk about it. Like, you've seen legend where he plays two. He changes his physicality

where one of them looks more brooding and bulky. And it's the same day, or like the same week. And I think Tom Hardy is just one of those actors that's physicality radiates off them more than the actual physical body. Sure.

Because he's only like half an inch taller than me, but he looks like six foot two. Right. Like, and they shoot him super creatively. Yeah, the Applebox is cool. Yeah, the Apple Box is real. They shoot him super creatively, but like he's also not that much bigger. Like, he just knows how to move his body to look huge. And they frame it really creatively.

Yeah, dude, he's not tall. So here's the other question. He's 5-9. Yeah. So here's the other question. Then how tall is bail? So then that's all a stunt dude? Says the short guy.

Is that all a stunt dude for the fight? No, it's Appleboxes. No. Moving Apple boxes. Yeah, no. Boots with the fur. He looks taller in those fight. He looks

Like when Bain and Bain and Let's see Batman fight Dark Night Rises He's a real creative framing man I just I just He looks much taller

So I don't know if maybe he's fighting Which is I would give you that on the stairs But you're talking about in the sewer They look like they're standing on level ground So that's why I was like is that a stunt I mean they look like Gambleau and Frodoer stand on level ground Like they make that you can make anything work Not this one because this is this is at the stairs

I'm talking about in the sewer when the bat Type try a try a not final fight Yeah, it's back. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I'm not going to, I'm not going to be able to show it to everybody. I'm probably not even put the sound up. Yeah, don't want to show. Yeah, they're really creative for that frame.

Because he's good four inches on them. I'd say it's not even three. It's four. Because that's the thing. Bain is massively hulking, not just in muscle mass, but in like physical stash of autopilians. Like, they really do a good job. When you look at it, they're not even standing next to each other. Not yet, but like, we'll get a shot in a second.

But also, I love Christians. Like, I'm getting my ass whooped. Christian Bale. Yeah. Getting on the ground. The ground is smart going to that. But I guess, yeah, right? They don't really ever stand.

The best part is kind of at the end here when he's about to break his back. I love what it catches him. Yeah, exactly. Like, you can't tell. Also, like, yeah, it's like the way that it's shot. They shot it really well. You're right. Also, if you look at, like, where he put on muscle,

it's like largely like traps and shoulders because that's what you're going to see and that's what you're going to throw up like this. Some of the lines, too, man. Some of the lines are, like, even when he's like, oh, you think. think the doc is your ally like all that stuff like that's so quotable so quote it's so great like so i don't i i didn't really know honestly that a lot of there's a ton of kickback i love i think bane i mean i i i loved them too i my my only true problem i one was again i and we just talked about it

i'm sure in the future they will they'll cast a latino or uh actor but then the other is like i said it's just i didn't like the subservientness to talia i if again if it had been a partner thing but we've already discussed all that you're talking story wise as far as far as It's like the end choice, which happens. Whereas performance, I think we all agree on. Yeah, which is the weird thing. And even the beginning, dude, when little fingers up there, and he's, and he's, that whole scene, everything,

he's like, why would you shoot a man before? Yeah. For you? And all of them. Why would you shoot him out of the plane? That is little finger. I would try to put my finger on who is that, no pun intended. He always talks the side of his face.

Yeah, yeah. That's what, uh, what's his name does, uh, from Heroes and This Is Us. Yeah, dude drives me crazy. Oh, well, he's got like a thing. He's got like a tick. Whereas this dude just does a, It's a choice. Rocky's son.

Yeah, he's got the same thing that Rocky has, where it's not a choice. Where's this dude, like just as acting? Yeah, well, he, but they, but that whole scene in the beginning, I mean, that was the scene that they showed everybody in IMAX. Yeah.

When it, before, like, when they opened it up. I remember it was like Mission Impossible. I can't remember what it was. It was some movie that we saw, and it was myself, Catherine Reitman and Ellis, and we were about to review something together, and we saw something in the theater,

and they showed, and my oldest was, had just been born. Yeah. Like maybe a year or whatever. And this movie's 10 years old. This movie's definitely, this is all. It's, it's nine years old, right?

No, 2007. 22. This is 2012. You're right. It's 10 years old. It will be this summer. So yeah. So then my, my, because my daughter's going to be 11 this year.

Yeah. So you had seen the preview earlier. I was just sorry. I saw the preview. Yeah, no, no, no, no. And I saw the preview and I remember. And if you remember this, they had to convince Nolan to go in there and work on Tom Hardy's voice because.

The modulation through the. because he wanted it to be more, like, pure of, like, where you, because you couldn't understand him. Because the plain noise plus the way he's doing the choices, plus the muffled. They used the actual sound from him talking as opposed to, like, the voiceover stuff that they ultimately wind up using, which, watching this back, it's clear as day. You can understand what he's saying.

Like, now you can, but when you saw it, they had to go in, they fixed a lot because you couldn't understand him. People were having a big problem with not understanding what the hell he was saying. When I remember that, like, I don't know. I've always been able to pick up accents really well, and I can decipher more than some. But I remember thinking like, oh, this isn't going to be approachable

and this is a $200 million movie. I remember thinking like, oh, this is going to be a long-term problem if they don't fix it. I think they did, and people that complain you can't understand them. I think that's just, that's pretty perfectly.

I understand. I had no problem understanding him at this point. What did they fixed it up for release or something? I don't know. It's possible. I mean, ADR you can do. I mean, they were changed in visuals in Spider-Man, No Way Home in theater.

You know, hilarious though, they, really? Like, it was already released and they, Then we went back in the portal scene with Andrew Garv. Yeah. Spoilers. The portal scene. I mean, it's been,

it's about too much. I got nervous. I kept his secret for so long. It still feels like I'm tattling. Bro. The amount of time. Too, Billy ain't no goddamn spoiler. Nobody seen it.

So the scene where he jumps out of the portal, the background of the one I saw is now not playing. It's a different background of his portal jump. So they literally change the portal sequence in real time. I'm embarrassed to say I've still only seen it the one time. It's different. I've only seen it once. Yeah.

I just haven't had time. And then the Omicron. So Winston. Yeah, yeah, and then all the cronels. Yeah. Yeah. So I've seen it three times and the third time was a different portal. Yeah.

Wow. Yeah. So it's changed in movie. So you ADR could obviously be done in post if they're actually changing. So I mean, and I think that there's, what's funny is that we were watching as we started our rewatch all of the Batman movies that we watched were available on HBO and now only the Nolan trilogy is available on profit. Really? Where do they other ones go? Uh, Hulu.

Hulu or Amazon? I don't remember where. I watched, I watched Batman and Rob. because I was watching on an HBO Max and took me like four days to watch it because I just couldn't get through it. And why did it take me the long? I watched it twice.

Yeah, dude, that's brave. That's brave. You watched it twice? Do you guys remember? Because I said I watched it not paying attention. And then you had to talk about this so I wouldn't put it out again. But watch it not paying attention

is not watching it. Oh, well, it's there. Like it's like it's talking about it actively. Like we're at mid-minute. What are you going to say again? I remember that. I have to hear the same shitty dialogue. Just because it's so what?

So I watched a full episode of Bachelor of any of my wife, even though I was like, You're an expert. Come do a rewatch. Do you know how often that happens? And I actually enjoy watching that stupid-ass show, man. I don't know what's wrong. I can't watch a Bachelor anymore.

I can watch, I can watch Bachelor in Paradise. I can watch all day long and I will sing to the mountains. It is only for like the first four episodes because it's a complete car crash. And I enjoy watching the trash TV. We need this cast in a Bachelor series. We need Bane. We need Scarecrow. We need Catwoman.

Why? You return by. phone call. He needs the milk. I wanted a rose. Did you think those pants were your ally? Just really sassy about outfits?

You merely visit the mansion. I was born in. Oh, you said, no, no, no. You know what he would say. Are you here for the right reasons? Here's your rose. That's exactly right. I think it holds up.

It is a slightly lesser film than the other two. Yes. But I do think. think it's better than people remember it as being, while also being messier when watching them back to back. Well, why don't we rank them? Why don't we rank them for the ones that we watch? The seven Batmans? The seven Batmans that we watched live action. Give me a second. Yeah, so we'll, we can do that because we've done it for the other movies. And like we said, this one, this episode is probably going to be a little shorter today, but we are going to do an episode next week, by the way,

where it'll be a little bit, probably of a very brief non-spoiler on the Batman. We're not going to go too in depth with it. But what we will do is then probably cover all the other movie news that we've got. And then on Monday, a week from this Monday, a week from this Monday, we're going to do our full spoiler discussion on the Batman. Question, is this personal preference or what we just think as far as movies? I think the same way that we've done it in the past. This is not necessarily for best film, but the ones that you enjoy the most,

what your favorites are. And I'll, and I'm going to go ahead and I will rank them. Let's see. So everybody had it was going to have there. There's seven, right? What am I missing? After your rewatch, after your rewatch, after your rewatch, which ones you enjoyed watching the most?

So that's how we're going to do it for this one. And I, I'm going to, definitely, it was funny because if I, if you asked me what I thought my list was and what my list is going to be, it would be a little different. Yeah, mine's changed a lot since seven weeks ago. Let's see. And this does not include yet, Lego Babel. Batman, the Snyder Batman.

I'm just letting people know when they inevitably say it in the comments. This is just for our rewatch. This is just for our rewatch. I think I've bookmarked what I put because somebody asked us, Coy, I don't know if you remember. Somebody asked me and I tagged you guys in it about what we rank them. I'm curious what I had before. And okay, great, I had it right here.

So we can actually start from one to seven on this one because I think everybody's going to have the same number one. Number one for me is the Dark Knight. Yeah. Number two for me is Batman begins. Yep. Batman, three for me is Batman at 89. Four is Dark Night Rises.

Five is Batman forever. Six Batman returns and seven is a toilet. A toilet he lived on twice. Yeah, why did I even put it in the list? I wish I knew. So who's, who, so what do you got to? Yeah, I got to move something around, but I can, I can do it just by looking at it. So we start off, we start off the same, Dark Knight, then begins.

Yeah. Then for me, it's forever. Okay. Then rises. I had originally wrote down returns, but I'm going to flip it. I'm going to say 89 returns and then Batman and Robin. Okay. What do you got?

I'm different. I got Dark Night 1 begins to, I'm keeping rises three. Then I got returns 89 forever, Robin. And I would say 89 and forever are closer than any of them. Like that's the nearest tie for me is like that five spot is a swap. Yeah. I mean, the reason I have forever still at number three for me, me is like I can't shake the nostalgia as much as I want to.

And there are still enough redeeming things about it. You have your original one, right? Yeah. Because I do too. I want to hear what our pre-rewatches. So this was my personal ranking versus objective filmmaking. So my personal one was night begins forever. So it's kind of stayed the same.

Yep. Then I guess I should just strike the ones that we didn't do. Sure. For now. That's not doing it. Okay. So if that's the case, then I had Rises, Batman and Robin, 89 and then return. Whoa. You had the...

Batman and Robin. I had... Yeah, and the reason why it's just again, my intro into Batman films started with Forever and Robin. So I just, from pure nostalgia, though when I did the objective ranking, I had Dark Night Begins, 89 returns forever Batman and Robin. And that's closer to my rating,

because I think I've been able to shake the nostalgia a bit just because I was less attached necessarily. So my original was Knights begins, Batman Returns, Batman, Dark Night Rises forever Batman and Robin. I'd really wish that I wasn't stuck on the solo. I mean, do you know,

I know how to work it if you want me to go over there for a second. What? Oh. I didn't know about you solo. I didn't know. It's fine. That's like kind of looking at you. It's your reaction.

Hey, thanks for doing my coverage. I appreciate you. I got you. I got you. Ladies and gentlemen, this has been the Winston. Welcome,

bitches. I didn't. I kept seeing you go and think of my left and I was like, am I boring you? And I didn't realize it was because you were like, oh, it was like, I was like,

it was like, It's because I got a text in the middle of it. Do you have the keys? I immediately got self-conscious there Winston's like, I'm done. I was about to try and snake and be like, I don't know which, like, I know how to do it because I don't want to use OBS, but I was like, which one it was. I'm like, how did I bore Winston listing seven movies? I'm like, I'm giving very brief thoughts here.

You know what I realize I need to do is the next, in case a situation like that happens, I need to create a two shot. Winston just staring at himself while I'm talking. So I think, uh, The Winston show is better than Rises. No, I think, I think Rises went up a little bit for me. Yeah, what was your, can you give me your ranking again, Koi? My ranking is of just the seven we watched.

Dark Knight number one, begins as number two, rises number three. Returns, 89 forever. Returns over 89. Yeah, returns over 89. I love Catwoman, dude. Michelle Fiver's perfect. She's really good at it. But it's weird because I used to think, like, if you listen to old episodes of it,

whether Shmows or whatever, I would, I always thought that yeah you know maybe 89 was was overrated I and I definitely probably a nostalgia thing for me too sure I loved watching I loved watching 89 this time around like I really had a fun time watching it I think that and this goes back to what we were just talking about a better film I think I think Dark Night Rise is a better film um although 89 is a beautiful film for the for the for the way that it was just went up because I had to look at it objectively I also I got to own some my own toxic fandom I personally love Heath Ledger's joker so much that I I get really mad at the Jack Nicholson being better conversation.

So I have a hard time separating that from my bad 89 experience. People are like, oh, he's blah, blah, blah. I'm like, that's Jack Nichols and makeup. And it's hard for me to separate that enough to let that movie be fair. So that might be my Snyder problem. He just set the standard, though. And I hear, but I didn't live it. But I think the other thing about it, why I give,

I understand why you get upset about that, but I think I can just separate them and be like, okay, that's your opinion. I don't feel like you know what you're talking about, but whatever. I look at Nicholson's Joker, similar to Hamel's Joker. Those characters seem to be very, closely modeled after each other and how they treat with walking the museum.

Like how often has Hamill's been like, oh, this is absolutely crazy? Like they feel very similar. Sure. So I can actually really appreciate what Nicholson does because for me, even with as good as Heath Ledger did and he did incredible, my personal joke is Hamill. Your Joker is the, yeah, the clean comic book. A lot of people feel that way too. And some people, I can't even tell you, it's been years, but people still want me to use

the inch because we had Mark Hamill cut an intro for the Shmo's No Show. Dove. I didn't know that. It was, it was the, it was the intro for Schmo's for years. We just found out. I didn't know that. The Schmo's no intro for years was Mark Hamel's Joker saying, I've been friends with Schmose for years. And he does a whole Joker intro. That's amazing.

And we had it, we had it for years. And people are like, you ever going to bring that back? I'm like, well, the show's not on the air, so no. But, but, but I understand why they're asking. That's incredible. You know what you should do? You should get, you should take it and you should have, I've been friends with it and then get the Schmobaut to go, Christian Harloff.

Free? Years. When we do Basca the Fantas and we can look at Hamel's Joker again. To be honest with you, it sounds so weird because we just watched Heath and I just said how upper echelon, one of the best acting jobs ever. There was just something very particular. And I think the other part of it is I have so much media of Hamill doing it and being so consistent in God knows how many different ways from the pure rage to the insanity like kind of laughing. You look at him in the Arkham game. You look at them in the animated series

and the movies that came after. Like, he's just flawless as the Joker on it. For me, and that actually sets up my Rises feelings is what I love is that we have Liam Neeson's control where he's in and out of control world and he's trying to control it in his close-minded way in a very pointed way. Heath's Joker is the center film that is chaos

and that changes everything. And in mid-word, Heath was able to like surprise himself. Like, you know what I mean? Like that was such a ventriloquist performance where someone was like, and then Bain is kind of the anti- Both of that where he's tactical for the Batman. As we get to the Batman,

you mentioned the Joker, we feel like we're going to see the Joker again, right? Yes. So we get the Ridler, a very different riddler than Jim Carrey's version, 100% for that we're going to see very, very soon. So we'll be ranking Paul Danos villain very soon. They're already talking about doing a second one.

Yeah. They're already because we haven't heard too much yet as first. Have you heard anybody who's seen the movie? I loved. Somebody that's going right now. it and they've loved it. Yeah. I've heard one person that was a reluctant to decide without seeing it again,

which is impressive at three hours. Yes. But four people I know have been like, it's everything you want from the trailers. Great. So that's high price because those trailers slag. That's great. So, well, that being said,

and then it looks like they're going to get a second one. And a Penguin series. Well, that we know from HBO match, right? So are we, do you think that will the penguin be the main villain in the second one? Or do you think they're going to bring the Joker in the second one? Will they bring the Joker and Penguin in the second one?

The thing with the, the penguin that's so interesting. Sometimes he is kind of at the center stuff. He has a tendency to be this dude that is a big shot, but his insecurities kind of kick in where it's always somebody else's game. And he's like, why don't you pay attention to me? I feel like that's where he's going to live.

Especially since he's getting a show. I think he's going to be the guy like running stuff over here. If I had to guess, he maybe is the start of what Batman's kind of dealing with when we get into the movie. But then the Riddler is the real Zodiac Killer kind of threat. And he maybe gets a little pissed. But like I don't think he becomes so. I think he will continue to be usurped.

I think we built Joker slow. I think Joker's not villain too. He's in Joker. He's in it more in the next one. I think he's in this one a little bit. We build him up more. I think we get a Mr. Freeze or Clayface or a new villain in this next one.

And I think we stay psychological. Maybe we get Matt Hadd. I do. I do think he walks in. I think the penguin will walk in. Just the pussy having looking for. There's your R-rated Batman, everybody. God damn it.

It's like, it's like, I'm, I cannot believe it. How did that fly? Yeah, dude. You got to add that to your soundboard. He has said on Mr. Freezes, somebody wants.

Oh, that's sweet. Just the pussy have been looking for. Yeah, I'm going to put that on my soundboard and people who don't know what it is, it's going to be this. Oh,

yeah. Flagged so much. Yeah. So, I mean, that's hilarious. But now I think that it'll probably be, they're going to double up on villains again.

I mean, they're kind of doing it in this one. We got a few in this one. Yeah, they're doing it in this one. And Falconi is going to be a big deal, man. Falcone. Who's playing Falcone?

John Totoro. Okay. So I think that's going to be a bigger deal when people are counting on. Also, we haven't not doubled up on villains since 89. If you think about it, returns to Forever 2, Robin 3, begins two, because you have both Scarecrow and Falcone and Falckel 3. What? Then you essentially had, you could count all the mob bosses as one, so that's three in a Joker

and Two-Face. Harvey Dent. Yeah, yeah, right, right. And then this last one, you had Talia Bain and... You can even put the Scarecrow. And Catwoman and Scarecrow. And you can combine Liam Neeson and Scarecrow's one. Yeah.

Because he's got a little moment. And I would say, you know, we're going to have Falcone is a bigger part than people are expecting, especially if it's Long Halloween as much as I think it is, because Long Halloween is about the crime boss's kid. So the whole movie is a detective story about like sins of the father, like Bruce Wayne and the Falcone's kid. Because you've got Thomas Wayne's kid, Bruce, and then you got the Falcone's kid.

And I think there's going to be a lot more at play. I think the Ridler is tied to the Falcones in a very direct way that I don't want to spoil in case it's true. I was really hoping that we were going to see that the whole Ridler thing maybe is, I don't know yet. This is just a prediction.

If it's actually Thomas Elliott and it's this whole idea of, so for those that don't know Thomas Elliott, his whole thing is where he is an expert hush. Expert plastic surgeon. He intentionally will go out and change his face to whatever and what he's done in various iterations,

change his face to look like Bruce. So he can get a hold of Bruce's money and do whatever he wants. That mask is very hush. And that was something real quick, the Dark Night Rises that I liked, too, the fingerprint thing. Yeah. The way they changed it.

That was the detective. It was ultimately the Talia making, everything that he thought he had power on, she took away from him. We also have only said the one thing about Talia. She's great until that point. I want to say, like, she does really good work as Talia.

She's intriguing. She's sexy. She's enticing. And you've got that fun love triangle with Catwoman and Talia. And they both are playing manipulators. very well while also endearing you as the audience. Like you want to root for the question. How long was he gone?

It was what, two months? Three at least. They said the cops had been down there. Because the only thing that I would have really loved if they weren't going to do it. It's too much. But if the bomb, let's say, you write the story that the bomb takes 13, 14 months to go. And remember, he had sex with Talia if all of a sudden you made a Damien in that process. That would have been cool.

I forgot. Yeah, right. Well, then, and what we haven't talked to. about and it's probably the last thing we can talk about before we leave is the bomb itself and at the end of it when he when he flies off did you guys think when you saw the movie initially did you think that they were going to be ballsy enough and and kill him or james bond it yeah i remember i remember being at my office when i was working at the time and people were i didn't think they were going to kill him but i thought if anyone wanted to know one it's no one i thought maybe they did to be honest with you i finished watching the film and even with all the things that i heard because of how nolan loves to leave's thing ambiguous. I thought maybe Alfred was hallucinating. Yeah. And he could have been still. And he still could have been. Because you were still on those inception fumes

though too. Probably. Is it still spending? I was still high on inception. That's probably exactly what it is. So here's another question that ties into all of this. It provides me of something. Go ahead. Yes. Yes or no. Bale shows up in the flash. I'd love it. I hope he does. I'd love it. I hope he does.

They throw enough money. You can say yes? I think no because they haven't, how many Batman have they, they, they, they,

bat fleck and Keaton. Yeah, they would too, so, so that's the thing. If you remember Flashpoint, you go in with one,

Bruce, you end up with Thomas and you end up with a different version of because things have altered. And I think we're going to end up a different version of Kurt Keaton,

a different take on Keaton, not, and that's like, I think Keaton's going to be Thomas. I honestly think that he's going to be, yes, he's coming back as Batman as Thomas Wayne. Interesting.

That's my guess. That's my guess. He's coming back. Keaton's coming back to be part of this overall universe way more because he's already mean, Batgirl. Right. I think he's coming back and he's Batman Beyond that. Bruce. I think he's going to mentor Back Girl as Terry. I could see that. I don't know enough about the flashpoint and everything to it. Now the rules work, but if I'm looking at it in the same way that like the multiverse was working, right? I think that because if you want to get that mysterious pop. Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. I think the safe answer is no. I think it's safe. But I'm going to,

I'm going to go. What if bail is Thomas? That's the move. So the idea, Christian, long story short, when Flash goes back in time and Flashpoint, the ripple effect for Bruce is that when the murderer comes, the murderer doesn't kill Thomas and Martha, the murderer kills Bruce.

Yeah. And then that, and so Thomas, Joker. Martha becomes the Joker because she goes insane. And Thomas becomes a very violent Batman that uses guns. So that's, I would not be surprised if maybe they snuck this in somehow.

and like Christian plays Thomas and then we don't need to necessarily see him again. I think if we get bail back, it's brief, but it would be the Toby pop of No Way Home. I think that's basically what it is. If they're going to bring them back at all, it's a pipe dream, but what a pipe dream? Because the thing that you guys are talking about,

Marvel too. But here's the thing, you guys understand everything that you're talking about. Yeah, no, no, but I mean, what I mean is that day-to-day audience. They're going to have to explain it, though. Well, but that's what I mean. They don't have enough time to explain all that. That's not true.

It depends. They did it in No Way Home, But wait, wait, wait, what I'm saying is they have too much time. There's not enough time if they're going to have bail in it, right? So the other stuff with Keaton, they're going to explain all that stuff. That's going to be set up for you. If Christian Bail, again, if he's in this movie, which no one is saying is. But if he is, this whole thing of like, well, he got killed.

The father got killed. And that's a violent Batman. None of that stuff is ever going to play in this movie, ever. I get it. It's just because having seen a 90-minute animated version of Flashpoint that explains it exceptionally well. You can do it. I understand what you're worried about with, with like, you have to explain the actor and why they're doing this. But I honestly think that all you need is that moment of, oh, Batman. And it's like, he's like, you, you look a lot like, but you're not

Bruce. And he goes, why did you say his name? And then all of a sudden it's like, oh, crap, you're Tom. And then he can explain. You can do it. But I guess, I guess. I still think it would be two audiences. I think what I think will happen if they put him in. He'll be the same Bruce Wayne that we knew older, though, sure that, you know, the same way they did it in No Way home.

Yeah. They enter whatever part it is in his life. It's a mentor role. He's been retired. He was off with Anne Hathaway doing whatever the hell he's doing and it opens up

and whatever happens. And that's why I think Keaton's the Batman Beyond is I think he's retired and comes back. And especially since he's in Backgirl, I think Backroll's gonna basically play the Batman Beyond parallel. Sure.

I get it. And the last thing I was going to say because you brought up the bomb and this was the part that was funny to me, did either of you? Because it's attached to the Batwing on like the string, right?

Yeah. Did you ever think at any point that bomb was going to hit a building and boom. Dude, that was the most Adam West out of all. That's what I said Adam Westie. I was like, that's full on. Like, we. Who got the bomb dangling from the, come on,

that was an Adam Westy thing. It reminded me the most of, I think that's why the most Batman kind of cartoonish. Because it accelerated. Yeah. And like there are alternate endings. How did it get away? You just dropped it and just flew off.

And he just killed all the wild way. But it has a sit, but it also has a, well, there's a really funny, look up the film theorist and they do, Batman actually. killed Gotham and it's about how the radiation, you've poisoned the water, it's six miles

wide, they said the explosion was six miles, he could not have gotten away that fast based off of how fast this thing was going. You should watch it, but all I was going to say was I got really upset. I love that they tried to, every movie they've had this chase, right? And the funniest part of the chase when Batman comes back is like he's

using the EMP or whatever cop shoots the gun and he just looks at him like, you son of a bitch, he's like put it away for you hurt yourself. but we didn't get the same like narration from the cops that we loved quite as much. He was in it. One of the guys was in it. He's like they promoted him.

He's running around with Gordon. Gordon is, Gordon is awesome. You didn't like Gordon as well? No, no, no, no. I loved Gordon. I hated lieutenant commissioner. Oh,

Matthew Moodyne. Matthew Modine. I mean, he's meant to be. Matthew Modine in this movie. I love Matthew Modine. Sure. Matthew Modine in this movie. because Vision Quest,

did you ever see Vision Quest? Yeah. Vision Quest, I feel like that's like that's my jam in my age. I was going to say, how that's not what I was going to say. But Vision Quest to me is Matthew Modine and Full Metal Jack and in his movies.

But he is one of the weakest in this movie. There's no doubt that. And it's not necessary. And it's just like he's, his character, there's no depth to him. And when he's sitting in the thing and at one point,

what does he say? He's like, he's just like, yeah, you want to get that guy. You want to get the Batman. You want to get the Batman. Bro, and not just that. It's the,

It's even the way he died where he finally is like, he, like Gordon says, I'm not asking you to put on like your, your dress blues, but he comes out in his dress blues with the gloves, right? So he's sitting here shooting to people and then Talia's like,

and kill that guy, kill that guy, kill him all. So it goes from him doing this, cut the Talia singing, and then he's just, yeah. Well,

and that's an editing thing. They do that, they do that a lot of this. They do that. Like four of Bain's kills are, are like that. I bet this was three and a half hours. When he does that,

when he does the thing to his, to the nuclear, the nuclear doctor. Yeah. And he twists the guy's neck. They do that move where they just turn away from the camera. And it's like, I get it.

You're trying to keep the rating down. But you still could have done it a different way. You could have done it a better better. Penciled the dude. Yeah. This is, I think that this definitely, as much as I like this movie,

this is definitely one of Nolan's sloppiest movies as far as editing goes. I totally agree. And I did like the Juno Temple, like almost Harley Quinn flavor. I did like the nod that they did. I did like Josh Stewart, who was kind of like a dead shot parallel.

Like they did. When? The dude, the main assassin, the main, the main, the main, Bain Hinchman.

Oh, he was like, he was supposed to be dead shot? It was like a nod. Like, I don't think it was ever, who was supposed to be Harley Quinn? Juno Temple,

Jen, the catwoman's roommate. Oh. They did those things, kind of like my Mr. Reese thing. Like they were just building out because he knew there was,

I sort of get it. I guess I just don't, I wouldn't have necessarily called either one of those only in the sense that like, the, the roommate of catwoman in that regard. You'd have to really put it together. the hell out of that dude. You also wouldn't call Mr. Reese, the riddler in Dark Night Rides

like I was saying, a Dark Knight, it's just kind of like, his name's Mr. Reeves. It's a little bit of a he-he. Like, I thought you weren't going to put on the soundboard. I thought you said that was, that was not on the side. It's not on the soundboard. I still put it on the soundboard. I can be a selective of who you used it in front of it. Also, like, Glenn, I forget his last name,

the dude at the Wall Street thing. Like that that was a bad death cutaway. Like, there's A lot of moments. There's a lot of those. There's a lot of those. But I look, so we have a full episode here as Dark Night Rises. Before we get going, I do want to let you guys know, this is drop it. This is Friday.

Tomorrow, ladies and gentlemen, the Shmodan is back. Season 9, it is back. It is the best it's ever been. And I'm telling you that factual. Both of the gentlemen here, Winston and Coy, we're both at the studio. They know the new vision of it. We haven't explained all of it yet. That'll be explained tomorrow on the pay-per-view.

So that's my question. I just want to clarify, because this. This version of us is airing on Friday. So it's Friday, right? It's happening today or it's happening on Saturday. It's on Saturday. I just want to clarify that. So we don't talk in yet.

Speaking of which. Who's back? The smasher is back. You out here talking about fights. You want to fight this person. You want to fight that person. Well, Bub, if you're looking for a fight, then let's fight! You know how you're going to start this season with an L?

I'll see your punk ass next season. That's it. February 26th, everybody. You don't put that snake on my screen, man. made me look at that. He's right here. He's right here. Everything I did for that boy.

It's going to be a great match. And not only you're going to see Kevin Smet's battling, he smashed cancer, he beat cancer, and now he's got to face Chandrudan Duponni. And that goes down tomorrow night. And then the wildberries, Josh McCughey, DeWere, are back together against video, Drew and Claudia. That's going to be a lot of fun. It's a very special announcement of everything that's about to come. We are going to have a special Batman match between Kevin.

Evan Smets and Mike Kalanowski exhibition, but it'll be available to everybody. So make sure you go on over to, and I'm going to put the link in the description for that video once it's up, but it's the Batman match. There's going to be some, there's going to be a lot going on. So make sure you're subscribed to that channel.

That match, that match. Oh, man, it's going to be fun. The Batman match. Oh, yeah, it's going to be fun. It's going to be a lot of fun. So make sure, guys, that that's everything you want to see. Go to the movie Tribune, if you've never seen it before,

or you used to watch it, or you watched it during the digital, age, you're like, oh, you know, I don't think it's for me anymore. Watch this season. This season is a complete, it's called reboot for a reason. It is the best the show has ever been. It's the reason I took it to Skybound in the first place. It's the sexiest the show has ever looked.

Ever. I'll be honest with you. Like, just, you can already tell from the promos and how they've gone so far, but when you guys get the full experience of the set and how this is set up now, this is the best. Ever. It is ever looked. Ever.

And it's, and you'll see more, like, once the pay-per-view comes out and an announcement comes out of what we can talk a little more freely. Then we can talk more about like the idea behind the new changes and everybody will understand it. But once again, please go and check it out. It's the season premieres tomorrow. That is Patreon exclusive, but then it's going to drop on 10 a.m on March 4th. But I would recommend checking out Patreon. Patreon.com slash Shmodown to check that out.

All right. For Winston Marshall and Winston A. Marshall and Coy, Jandrew, thank you guys for joining us on this rewatch. We'll be back next week. And because I like you guys so much, look at that thumbnail. Look at it. All right. Look at that.