The Kristian Harloff Show - REWATCH! The Matrix Reloaded (2003) | The Big Thing

Episode Date: December 17, 2021

Follow on Twitter Kristian Harloff https://bit.ly/31PePMD Mark Ellis https://bit.ly/2U1wKPa Brett Sheridan https://bit.ly/2HBltii Steph Sabraw https://bit.ly/3m0ud0z Kate Mulligan https://bit.ly/3owBneT Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, everybody. Very excited for the rewatch. Thank you for joining for the rewatch series. We have been doing Matrix. We did Spider-Man. We did Star Wars. And now we're doing Matrix. And now it's Matrix Reloaded.

It's the second movie. We've already done two of them. We did the Matrix. We did the Atom Matrix. And now it's the, well, third movie. I mean, a second live action movie out of the set. And we're excited to be doing it. It's myself.

It's Coy, Jandrew and Kate Mulligan. And we're excited to be talking about this with you guys today because we're leading up to revolutions. The revolution? Nope. Resurrections. That's the one. And we are going to see that really soon.

Myself and Koi got a screening. Kate, who's this? Who's this? Who's this? Who's this? I can't take that right now. I can't take that right now. But anyway, so we'll figure it out. Kate wasn't invited.

Great. It was not, no. Kate was not invited to the screening. She was, but she's going out of town to be with family. Priorities, Kate. Priorities. All right.

Let's get into this thing, guys. It's my Matrix Revolutions. I'm ready. Are you ready? Are you ready? Let's do it. Reloaded. Revolution's is next one.

It's terrible. All right. How's it going, everybody? Chill and Shion. Welcome back. Matrix Reloaded. That's the movie we're watching today. We watched it already.

That's what we were talking about today. I'll get with it. I'll get plugged into the Matrix soon. Revolution's reloaded. Plug it in. Look this lady. Look at this guy. It's nice to everybody here.

Excited. It's nice to be here. We're right around the corner. Coy. I know it's a tough man. But like we both, we're going to the screenings. Well, when this movie comes out. Well, then this comes out next week.

It'll be like eight days away. We will already have seen Spider-Man at this point. But when you got the screening invites for both Spider-Man and this, what are you more excited about? Ooh, Sophie's choice. So I would say between the first trailer and the second trailer, I would have said Spider-Man because I was so attached to it. But then the deja-vous trailer affected me spiritually.

It was the one-minute one. That was a 58 seconds that changed my molecular structure. Yeah. I saw the world again like I did in 99. What do you think about the latest one? I thought the latest trailer was out of control. But I'm just giving credit to the 58 seconds. I've never had 58 seconds like rewrite me.

And I was like, oh, wait, I've suddenly become a different person. So I think I'm going Matrix. Sorry. Welcome to coy superlative genre. That's what I was. I call Kate. 58 seconds that changed my molecular structure. Do I be Kate?

Every minute's got to count. I said the KKK. When you're going out of town, whatever she's at, what they were? December 19. I go, perfect. Great news. I go, the screening is the 18. For the 20th.

The 20 is the 20. It's right there. It's right. Right. Right. Right. I do think they're both going to be incredible. I have a lot of faith in both films.

And I do think we can't make our year in list movies until we've seen them both. Until we've seen them both, especially because they're so anticipated. And we did this whole episode of on Big Thing about because there's so much hype between the two of them. Like which has the bigger. I chimed in because I was proud of the Stafford digging in terms. I was in the chat. We loved it. Yeah, but it's like,

but which is the bigger mountain to fall off of? Is it Spider-Man or or Matrix, right? And it's so funny. I saw this one. It's my favorite comment by myself to a response. Because I don't, you, you've been,

you've been going in, and you got, last Matrix, you were, you were in a mood. I was. I saw you coming back to people and you're like, I'm happy to piss you off.

I was like, that's not cohesioner. The thing I like about people is when they, yeah, but you were in, you were in a, you were spicy, but I was in a little bit of spicy mood because it was funny because

someone, all I saw this one guy goes, he's like, stop comparing two different movies. So I simply responded and I said, no. So spice feels good sometimes. But it wasn't, but it's that, we weren't comparing them. We're just saying because there's so much anticipation between both of them. Yeah. Is that, you know, if, because I think that at the Matrix, it doesn't deliver. You know, people are getting hyped up again.

Nobody was asking for a fourth Matrix. Nobody, I mean, except you. But nobody was like, oh, my God, we knew what we knew. Like Spider-Man, we knew it was coming. Yeah. The, the, the, the, the, the Matrix. it was like, okay, that'd be cool, right? And then the trailer comes out and you're like,

well, maybe I am getting excited for this. The truth, too, is that we know it's not the last Spider-Man. It could be the last Matrix. It could be. Yes. And we're going to get into it. Yes, and we're going to get into that. Occasionally, I have those.

Well, you will. I won for the day. What I did like, it's a lot of the comments that it said, that what they really liked about this rewatch series is that these three different perspectives, right? You got the movie fan is watching things going, okay, here's a particular thing I like about the Matrix. And then you got the guy,

who's the hardcore matrix fan who dives into all the philosophy and all that and then you get the raging idiot no they get at the newbie who represents people who have not seen the movie before or just learning about it so also i don't know any others of you so it's been really special for me because i've been so versed in this that it's been really nice to see you're rock that that's just alarming but like there's so few people that haven't seen it so it's been really nice for me to appreciate my age because like 99 was my prior i mean i was a junior going into a senior in high school You're also well-versed entertainment and your intelligence. So there's not a lot of people that have those Venn diagrams that haven't experienced this part of intelligent entertainment.

And the reason I was spicy, which I do not really apologize for, but I went through like a lot of comments on my YouTube and a bunch of people were like, why does you always have to go so philosophical and he thinks everything so deep, blah, blah. And there were people like attacking my other videos unrelated. And I was like, The Matrix is about philosophy. And what are you doing on my blade watch? By the way, though, I'm glad you brought that up because I feel that even though there's, stuff is still in two and three, right? In both, in both reloaded.

Yeah, it dips. Because here's the way that I, and Kate and I talked about this before, and we're just going to talk about two because three is next week. Or it might even be this week. I might run two of these in the same week because we get closer. I don't know yet. But either way. The difference from what I found the first movie,

and we talked about this briefly when we watched The Matrix the first time, it is a movie that is very deep. There's a lot of meaning behind it. It is revolutionary. It is different. and it happens to have a lot of action in it. It's not an action movie. Second movie is an action movie.

It's a pure action movie. The third is even more so in my opinion. See, the second one, the reason why I think they're really, I mean, that highway scene, fun. Amazing. But it goes on so long. And there's so many times in this movie that scenes just go on because they're like, look how cool this is.

And like when he's fighting all the Smiths in the park. Yeah. It's like, look how fun this is. And so dated now, it looks like a video game. But still, for the time. I felt like it still held up. Do you? That was the one, Christian, you stole the one thing I wanted to say,

which was that I have to, I have no data for this, but I bet if we collected data, this would stand, which is that I felt that every one of the scenes, action scenes was longer than any other. Like, if I'm trying, it just felt like I was like, wow, they're still punching each other. But we already saw him fly. Right.

Well, I just feel like if you said like, okay, this is the beginning of that action scene and this is the end of it, it would be, well, that's the difference between the first. one in this one. Do you remember when I said they split the script for two and three into two movies? In the action scenes, when I'm like, oh, they just literally pulled taffy. Like they're just like, it's exactly what you're doing. Yeah. It could have been a second. It could have been two movies. It could have been an animatrix as a live action, which I, which I'm not saying do that because I love what they do with the matrix. I love the medium of animation. But I do think there is merit in the second to be consolidated into one four hour. It is. But that being said though, I do and I will say for both two and three, I enjoyed watching them both better now. And I think that it's opposite to what I. I.

said about like when I watched Force Awakens knowing that well I knew what comes after it so it's it kind of diminishes my enjoyment of it a little bit this is two and three because I know there's a fourth one coming now I don't know the fourth one's going to be good I could feel very differently once I see it and be like oh my god and now it's now they're going to get worse again but because the way that they're set up leading into the fourth one could make two and three even better right so two it it starts up because by the end of one Neil flies up into the sky he's like I'm to show these people what you don't want them to see. And he's been freeing people as you watch in the animatrix.

We see that kid come back. Kid has a massive part in the movie. Yeah. Ultimately, you know. The war is over. Right. And that's part three, damn it. Sorry.

Gotta save it, Kate. Sorry. Spoilers. The war's over. But we do see him. That's three spoilers. That's right. But we do see him that kid.

And he says the same thing that he does an animatrix, which is you save me and he was like, you save yourself, kid. Right? That whole thing. But we show, this is more about. And two and three, ultimately are more about that and even three more so, but two is a combination of what we liked about the Matrix stuff, and then we start to see more of Zion and the real world.

I think that's where these movies lost a lot of people. I think that the Wachowski's were so ready for everybody to embrace both worlds, and they were ready for everybody saying, you're going to love the human side of it, you're going to love this rave, you're going to love all this. People are just like, just show me the Matrix. Show me the Matrix. And that's why I think the fourth one is the way that it's built up.

But the rave scene is another thing. Too long. I like it. I like it. I understand it. There's a celebration. They're in the town. People want to be fucking.

I get it. And especially Trinity and Neo. But it's like and the dream that Neo is having. He sees her. He sees all this stuff. He has the visions. There's so much in here that there's that we loved about it. That really works.

There's other stuff that just. just goes on too long and they just turn it into an action movie. But also why when you're like, the machine, you guys, the machines are coming. Let's have a party. Like, it was a very weird time. It was the last party. They wanted to make sure if they were going to die. If you're going to go out, go a bone and that's what I said.

Like if you're on your way out, it's like the jerking off in the airplane thing. Like if you go down, you're taking it out and you're going to play it through peace. Okay. That's a thing. Yeah. Like if you've never thought if the plane went down what your last action would be, would definitely be getting a no face on. Like there's going to be an experience.

Like you get your last. I was going to tell my kids it's going to be okay. That's why I don't have kids, Kate. I was going to fucking life is beautiful. It's in both mall rats and in a mini truck polandick books. I was making a mall rats reference. But I do think the beautiful thing. We should go to a few rewatch.

As we get to Clocks 3. When we get to clerks, it'd be so much fun. We get to do a rewatch series of clerks one and two with Kevin. That'd be amazing. So that said, this movie, a duality. I liked this movie. So for me, the third one,

is about compromise. The second one's about choice. So while we're in choice, while we're in Reloaded, I love that the first movie was about finding the truth, and it was looking at the mirror and looking past the mirror, using all the Alice Monterland metaphor. They looked into the mirror at what we are. My problem with the second two is that it looks at the surface. It looks just at the mirror

and looking back at you. It's a much more surface approach to these philosophies. And I did enjoy like the blend of entertainment and religion, but whereas the first film felt like it was establishing its own mythology, this one felt like it was establishing like a Joel Olstein cult. Like, it established like a mega church for profit.

Like this felt much more like it was doing propaganda religion where I didn't feel that in the first film. So when they're in Zion, I loved, personally, I loved the real world stuff because that to me felt like the duality of machine and man. Like machines aren't celebrating. The reason I think we needed to see this is the only thing it separates us from the machines

is we're all trying to conquer. We're all trying to rule our land. But we live for a purpose. And that's what's so interesting about the Meravengian. Is the Merovingian, his whole approach is robot-like. He thinks we all, are, he's a hard determinist. He thinks we have one path, everything is causality.

This equals this. This equals that. Soft determinism is what Morpheus believes. Soft determinists think that our nature and nurture builds up to everything leading in a way. So a soft determinist will listen to the Oracle and go, hey, I'm meant to be this. Everything is as it should be. We are meant to be this way.

But things I do will affect things. So it's a movie about hard determinism versus soft determinism. And then you've got Neo who's literally outside all codes and all matrices, all systems. So you've got a lot going on at play, but what I loved was the Meravingian was literally the devil in so many aspects. He was in red and black. He was married to Persephone, who was married to the Greek god of Hades, all those things. But you've got Neo becoming a more and more biblical figure. Where it lost me was in the third one, which we'll talk about later.

But in this one, we had so much beautiful setup for the duality of man to choice, to taking a left door or a right door to saving Trinity or saving everyone. All of that is the matrix to me, but it felt like it forgot what it was because it stressed itself out. But that's it. That's it. It kept losing itself. It's, that stuff that you just mentioned, it's all there in this one. It's all there. But because it's like, and I also think that's part of the hype machine when you get a

successful movie the first time. Everyone's like, oh, well, and then you get, you probably get the studio heads in there. I don't know if this is the case or not. But it's like, hey, they really love that bullet time stuff. Do the bullet time stuff because there's so much of it. How many times do I got to see Trinity do the thing with the arms and go up? And it's like, they just overcook a lot of the moments. And like, again, the highway scene goes on forever.

The scene in the park goes on forever. Like the stuff that just goes on and on to when you get the really interesting stuff, the stuff that you're talking about, it gets lost in a bit. The stuff that was really fun and exciting about the Matrix in the first movie, it starts to get lost. I still had a lot of fun with it. I think the twins, I remember everyone was talking about how cool the twins were.

The twins looked cool, but they were really, they were so goofy. They glossed over their purpose, though. So there's like one line of dialogue about the twins. The idea is everything supernatural is a glitch. So the idea is like Werewolves are real Ghosts are real They've just been poorly coded

They're an old matrix That should have been That's a whole movie That's way more excited And instead they're like Look at these guys And it was so And right right

Because they started doing And he starts doing And like stupid Palpatine stuff That they do Like that's like That's not scary to me It's stupid And the conversation in the basement

About needing machines To live while we're fighting machines That would have been The first movie Like if it was paste Like the first film The scene where he's Talking about like

How ironic is it we've got these machines that filter our water, that filter our food, that do all this for us that are keeping us while other machines are killing us. And then being like, well, what's the difference? And he says,

control, but they don't have control because they do need those things. That seems genius. So that's the stuff in Zion that I really like when he comes up to him and it's just like, you know, good point. Like the whole,

the whole conversation that they have and the understanding behind it tying into all the philosophy. And then the key master and all, did you go back, did you see the Will Ferrell thing we were telling you about yet? No, okay now. But that's okay now,

but that's okay now. because now you've seen the scene. Yes. Because he goes and he sees the, you know, the, what's his face? The architect. The architect. He sees him in Argo, Everman, Mavisavisov. And there's all this stuff that kind of plays into it that these things have happened.

So, Corey, the question I have that we're going to probably find out in the fourth movie is that he says to Neo at the end of the scene. We're going to jump back and forth, by the way, whatever scenes that we kind of pop into our minds. So the architect tells Neo, he's like, this is like, what, the sixth time we've blown up Zion? Yeah. So what does that mean? Does that mean that they clone them and then they rebuild it? New batch of humans. Like people that have now been freed again.

So people just keep rebuilding. So the architect says that they built a perfect matrix and that failed. And they built another matrix. Smith says that too. So we've gone through these iterations. So the way they got the matrix to work is by having 1% of people need choice. So actually wrote down like there's a concept. Like you guys have heard of the Heisenberg.

There's a Heisenberg uncertainty principle. Yeah. So the spontaneity. Yes, I speak for both of them. He's still your point is. as well. I was going to talk about Persephone. So the Heisenberg Insertany principle is when you look at subatomic particles, they are

so chaotic you can't predict when they're going to devolve. So things atrophy at a level that we can't track. So with science, usually it's like cause effect. With math, it's like one plus one is two. But when we're looking at the Heisenberg Insertany principle, there's a time when molecules decay and we're like, what's going on? And it's actual chaos. So they make that part of the matrix where we need there to be choice.

we need 1% of people to be able to be uncertain in order for this to feel like it's not hard determinism. The Matrix didn't work when it was hard determinism because when a system starts and ends and you know everything that's going to happen, that doesn't allow human beings to have the freedom of choice. So the movie's about implementing something into the matrix, which is Neo, that is the freedom of choice and having 1% of those people. So Zion is always the 1% of people that are able to escape. And that's why Neo is a fundamental part of the matrix itself, allowing the matrix to succeed. So he's a part of the system that he's meant to. to disassemble, but the Oracle was actually misleading him in the other ones.

And this time in the third thing, he makes a different choice. It's like an Obi-Wan type situation. Kind of telling him what he needs is the same way, leading him in one particular thing, not telling him the entire truth. The mother of the Matrix being the Oracle, misleading him because he was making choices that inevitably led to the fall of Zion. And in this case, in the third film, he made a different choice. So it's a really fascinating concept.

And all the ones before him were doing the wrong thing. They were all choosing Zion. He chose to save Trinity. Because in this instance, love is the ultimate benefactor. Love is the thing that is the variable that you can't be controlled. So it's almost a variable on a variable on a variable, which makes this Neo unique. Right. Which is what I think the fourth movie is about.

And there's a new Neo comes in. So they've all, they've all been canter Reeves. Every Neo. No, no, but that's what I mean. But like every Neo has been, because I didn't know every the one, was it always Canter Reeves? That's what I used to think as a kid. But this time, I think what those cameras were weren't old neos.

I think they were options. That's some kid philosophy right there. No, no. I'm saying. Moron. I think the videos were all of the options of how he could react in real time. Yeah. So I used to think those were all the Nios, but then that wouldn't make sense because there'd only be six

in them. No, no, no, you're right, right, right. So now I think it's every variable of the options of how he could react in real time to the architect's questioning. And that's again, the Socratic method of pulling out every variable. But I was just talking about in general, like, so the ones that were, because we know that there were what, six predecessors, right? Yeah.

My question is, were those predecessors all can't erase? Were those, like that's, or were they just, or were they different people? Because I think that would imply. a certain determinism. Right. Because we can't have something be the exact same every time.

Otherwise you lose the variability of the thing that's causing the matrix to flow. Right. So the next movie, even though it appears that Neo is in it, it's not necessarily

that it's taken place after Zion. Well, we know that it has though because there are scenes of the other films. And he's watching it. And we don't know. And again,

going into, we'll play more into it into revolutions that there's certain things that happen at the end of that movie that imply that it could be that same Neo. Right.

But in this movie, in Reloaded. He's still kind of getting his powers. The agents are insignificant really in this movie because he knows how to kind of beat him up. That's the thing. They kind of ignore the rules of the agents, right? Because the agents, even though Neo can mess them up. Yeah.

And like now Morpheus is fighting them. No one's scared of them anymore. They're all fighting them now. It's like, yeah, because Neo taught us how to fight the, well, you didn't tell me that. Yeah. You didn't. And it's like. You can't make everyone's super saying.

Like, suddenly like everyone's knighted. You're all cool. Right. Because I love the idea. that and what's what's the oracles the cipher what was his name not cipher that's from the first movie but um

her protector saroff which is that angel which is like the commentary like the angels and stuff he's fantastic he's fantastic because even I love that line of just like you know you don't really you can't really truly know someone unless you fight them right and know who they are and he does that with neo knows right away that okay this is this is who this is who's supposed to be here he takes him into the park and then it's like you were mentioning

all of the conversations it well there's an A&B of this, but all the conversation, most of the conversations they have in this, like, oh, that's the stuff I love about the Matrix. That's here, like that conversation she has with them in the park, like, sit down. He's like, I don't want to sit down. She's like, alright, whatever. And she knows all these things. It is all about choice, this movie. The only question that I have, because as we go, we talk about the goof on the Wolf Feral scene with, uh, with the architect is that did they try to overcomplicate things with certain things? Because there's certain times, like, I thought that the Matrix, even though some people might be, like, confused by it, you

rewatch it, you get it. This one, they're still, if you don't watch it with subtitles, right over your head. Like this stuff, I mean, I know you're locked into it, but there's some people who are like, wait, he said, he said, what? Wait, that, that means this and that, why is that guy opening all those doors there? And that, did they overcomplicate things in two and three? I personally think that it's a matter of opinion about how you want your movies. Some movies I want to be, actually had this talk with Mark Ellis the day about Eternals.

I want some of my movies to be something I need to work. Sure. I like to work. So I think that this movie is one that expects you to work. It's not, it's, I think this is on, is a positive because I want some things to be like,

I want to look what that book is. I want to understand that metaphor. I want to understand that reference. But if, what the beauty of these movies is, if you don't want that, you can still go, ooh,

big fight. Right, but that's, but that's the thing, you know, it's not, I also, whether it's inception or the first matrix or whatever,

there's a lot of those movies for me. And even this one, I liked following this one along and going back and going, but I'm watching, thinking about it was like a first watch. Right. It's a very, it's a very complex. One of my favorite things is something that I didn't discover until this rewatch.

There's a book that Persephone pulls to open the door. And I wouldn't have ever seen the movie this way without doing the research. So it ties of what you're saying is the movie became another movie for me again. But I think that's beneficial. So the book she pulls is, uh, die well, all's one und, Wollsterling. I don't see German. I think you said that wrong.

It's, uh, it means the world as will in representation in English. And it basically talks about there's two ways that the world can be regarded. So the first way is the world of appearances and causality, which is basically the Merovingian's whole thing. But the second half of the book is once you get past a certain point of whys, which is choice, right? Why this, why that, why all these things? When the whys run out and the fundamental nature of reality sets in,

the world in and of itself, the blind will of the world takes over. So there comes a point where no matter how much you chip away at something and question something, every conversation you've ever had with somebody, eventually you're like, because that's the way it is, because that's the way it is. So the book deals with the idea that there is choice, but there's also some things are just the way they are. So it made me see the movie as a different thing because there is the choice of making choices, but there's also, I don't believe in fate. But at the end of the day, there are things that are fundamental to how the world works. And that's literally a boop.

And like, I never would have, I never looked up that book before. Well, there is choice and there's absolute choice. And there's choice for you guys to either go to the grocery store and make sure that you guys are, you know, do it in German, but do it in German. Yeah, but make sure you guys are spent. Are you spending a lot of money at the grocery store? You want to actually get a good deal. I'm telling you, you guys know, I mean, both Coy and Kate and Kate's had butcher box for a while now.

I'm getting these boxes. Can I tell you that I just bought my dad one for Christmas? You did. Oh, that's so nice. I love that. Yeah, and it's, I absolutely love butcher box. You guys know that I do. It's so great because it's so, everything about it, whether it's the better taste,

it's more ethical, sustainable, all of that. Like when my wife texted me the day and she's like, butcher box is here, exclamation point. I ran in there like it's Christmas. I feel like the same way that my, the same way that my four-year-old opens up a Barbie box, right? Or my 10-year-old opens up, she's opening up a, you know, a book. A book. It's true. I am opening up butcher box because when it comes to the meat that will be the centerpiece of your holiday meals, which we already have done with the stew and the bris.

Oh, the brisket? I thought you said brisk. I'm like, no. Different. Different. Oh, yeah. Oh, my gosh. The stew meat.

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They're sourcing decisions. They're made. What they do is they keep the farm or the planet, the animal, and all of your family in mind. So so much, you know, it's funny because you can customize the boxes. You, Kate, got me, you said that you got in the ground turkey. You got the ground turkey. So we'd always gotten ground turkey from the store. So I said, you know, Kate really liked the ground turkey.

And we're like, all right, let's try it. Because my wife is very particular. Ground turkey is like, I don't know. We got it. It's all we get now. We got ground turkey. We got the chicken tenders. Except you've got to try the shrimp.

It's really good? Oh my God. The shrimp is super. And the cod. It's so good. And we put it in like the. in a sauce. We did tacos, everything about it.

So, so good. So we did the ground turkey. We, we've been using the ground turkey for everything. I made turkey burgers out of them like everything. So it was delicious. The family loved it. Turkey,

turkey meatballs. We called them yummy balls. So good. What is your favorite thing about Portia Box? That's the question. I'm going to ask you guys, because if you have gotten it, and if you have not gotten it by listening to the show,

what the hell is wrong with you? You are not listening to The Matrix. And you are not taking your choice. purpose and the purpose is butcher box. I'm telling you there are no antibiotics or added hormones. Each box contains 8 to 14 pounds of meat depending on the box that you choose. That's enough for 24 individual meals. It's packed fresh and shipped frozen for convenience so you can save time in your next grocery store trip. Customize your own box or go with one of theirs, which is what I do. Either way, you get exactly what you want. So this holiday, butcher box, listen to this deal. They

always give the sweetest deals. I got that turkey for Thanksgiving. Oh my God. It was so Anyway, this holiday Butcher Box is giving new members one pack of bacon for free in every box plus $20 off each box for the first five months of your membership. That's free bacon for life, for life, and up to $100 off. So you've got to sign up at butcherbox.com slash big thing. That is butcherbox.com slash big thing. Man, I love, I mean, God, I love this. I made a pot roast the other day.

It's so good. It's so good. I never know what cut to get for a pot roast. So they were just, it was so easy. They were like, I have options. I love it. I love it.

It's the season for it too. It's like nice in L.A. brisk in the 60s. Yeah. You know what I also, what I do like about, and it plays into both two and three in, in the theory of like love, right?

And what love is and how important it is. And that's a lot of themes in a lot of different movies. But in this one, obviously the bond between Trinity and, and Neo. And that lady and the orgasm cake. They had a really good bond. They always,

my favorite scenes in cinema. That's hilarious. I love that scenes so much. He's like, how I give me a piece of orgasm? Every bite being a different code. That's it. That's it. That's when I start to turn into Joey Pans and go, why, oh, why didn't I take the blue ball?

At that point, it's like, why do you need the red pill? You have that, you have that cake? That's an option? Pumpty over there. I like butcher box, but send over that cake. Send over that cake. You get served that cake on the plane and that way you got options. No, shit.

But either way, man, like the theories and what they did. Monica Balucci. holy shit man she is which affection she is the maravangian's wife persephone she's the one of that just a kiss and I love that idea when she wants that kiss and she's like that's terrible I'm out

yeah she knows she's like come on that bullshit like her he wants that passion and Trinity and that I remember being in the theater when Trinity pulls the gun on her and people erupted and laughed there's like these little moments that there's not a lot of humor in the Matrix movies but when they when they do

it, it works, right? And what we're not talking about is Harold Perrinu, by the way, who plays Link. Incredible. So it's funny, because we didn't. Michael from Lost. Yes. And we didn't, we didn't. Or, um, or, um, or Mercutio from a Romanos.

Yes. So what we didn't talk about was, you know, Link, um, Tank who survives. Yeah. And I remember running into, were you, I don't know if I knew, I did not even know you yet, Kate, but like there, I used to run a, a comedy room at, uh, what the hell was it called? Lolas. Okay. Yeah.

And, and. And, well, Sebastian. No, I don't think I knew you yet. Sebastian, we used to go up there, like, a lot of different people used to go up there. We started with some really fun shows. Ari Shapir, it was fun. But I remember, it was packed. I remember one day, and I saw Tank.

Yeah. And it was this whole big thing all over the, he, you know, he left because of money. Yeah. And he wanted, he wanted more money. And they told him, no, you're good, but you're not, I mean, no. And he made a massive stink about it. And they said, bye-bye. Yeah.

And I remember seeing him like, dude, you were great. You know, I wish you would have been in those new movies. And he's like, me too. Right. And then, but I'll tell you, Harold Peron is just a different kind of actor. Yeah, yeah. He's just so, like, the eyes are such an open window of soul that you need for this character. Yeah.

Because if you don't care about his relationship with her, you don't care about the other religion. And I really care about that. Yeah. Because that really does my bracelet. That bracelet and the charm and all those things. Like that's so important for this concept of Zion because the thing that separates us from the machines is love, is sex, is religion, is belief. And if you don't have him be able to believe, then you lose that home character. And they, and they, and they, and they, and they, and they, and they,

and they, and they, and they, and they, and they, and they, and they, they said, well, sir, you know, I'm not sure we've never done it. And, because he has, he's, he's, he's, he's taking the ship because he was, he was, he was, he was, it's, and it really, I mean, if you really dig deep and you know the story, the why he's there, then you're like, oh, he replaced the dude to want more money, but they made it, but they made it work in the story. And they also made it work with the passing of, I mean, even though it's in the third movie, but they made, they made, with passing of the Oracle. Yeah. Although, and I know it is the third movie, but I do feel like that exposition was wildly out of hand when she's like, yes, sometimes I look different.

Yeah, sometimes people, yeah, I'm not with you. And I was like, we get it. She died. One line. One line. One line. But that's like that is to me, like them really serenching. Yeah, but I think it is still, I, I didn't mind that, but we'll get to it in the third. But this one, it's about choice. It's about, I mean, even, and then Smith, who is. I love his motivation in this. Because Smith's basically like, I wanted to kill you before, but now I have no purpose, except ending all things.

I have a virus. I miss having purpose is my purpose to have no purpose. Like, I love that Smith between two and three is like having an existential crisis as a machine. Or it's just like, I only know anger. Well, but it's, this is the thing is that we built machines and we didn't know how to control them all the way through. they, we wind up saying, no, we don't need you for this purpose. And then they said, well, screw you.

I'm going, we're going to go or we're going to have a revolution, right? So Smith is doing. Yeah. He's part of the system. He doesn't want to be part. He tells Morpheus in the first one. He wants out. He hates it.

He doesn't want to be there. It's a prison for him. He wants out. And then we finally gets out. He says to Neo and this one, he's like, thanks for free in me. He's like, you're welcome. Right. And it's like, and he has this whole thing.

But the only thing that I still am battling with is whether or not I'm, I'm, on board with the fact that he enters Bain's body. Like, I just, and the only way I accepted it is because they have the thing on their, on their heads and that they're able to link in somehow. So somehow the computer got in. It's the same way that I don't know if I,

he's, that Neo uses the force at the end basically and shuts down all the, you know, the sense. There are some leaps. And to me, I see Smith obviously is the parallel. The opposing an equal and opposite force.

We talk about equations in the third film. Yeah. But the equation to counter Neo. So like that's the leap is like Neo was able to be Reborn in the Matrix and thus be reborn in the real world because he was able to separate his mind from his body enough to be like I am free So maybe Smith was able to learn that because Neo was in his body But I could have used a little bit more dialogue I could have used a little bit more like and after our experience

Yeah, it became a weird horror movie with with with bane like once they once they 17s alien like horror Yes and and also the character himself it's like I always, the casting wise, it's the same thing. It's like that guy doesn't look, like it would have been more effective to me, but it was somebody like, like Roy Jones Jr., right, who was in the movie and they barely just, they just get rid of him. I don't know if he dies or what happened soon, but I don't remember. It's not meaningful enough.

If he died on the ship, then it just kind of happened, and I don't remember. Or did he die in the room? I don't remember. But Roy Jones Jr. is in it. He stands by, you know, he does, he has a memorable role. But if it was someone like that or someone likeable or had a face or someone you set it up with, that then they start. His name wasn't.

How do we not? I know that the name Bain is like if you ever. I don't trust this guy. You guys, if any, but if you ever meet anybody named Bain, wrong. Right. And then, yeah, and then there's a setup. And now we know she's in it. Naobi, by Jada Pinkett Smith, is in the new movie. But she's set up in the second movie, set up that she had the relationship with Morpheus.

And now love that trio, me too. Me too. She's, I'll tell you why. She's one of my favorite parts of both of these movies. Yeah. Me too. And in general, I have to say, like, I think I watched, listen, I, I have, had no expectations because this wasn't a, the matrix was not a movie that changed my life.

Sure. There's my, my molecules are the same place. You're aware of it. For now. Yeah. Yeah. But that, so I didn't have, there was no pressure on two or three. So I feel like I have much more.

I mean, I've got, as I said, I've got notes. You've heard, you know, I'm making jokes or whatever. But I do have to say like, it's, it's, it's, they're just different movies. They're just very different movies. One, two and first. Yeah. I feel like two. And it's funny because to me, I actually feel like I might even, and we could talk about

later, but I might even like three better. Wow. Because I feel like it's almost like a, like a scale and like it's philosophy and then there's a little bit less philosophy. I think that if you, and also. And at the very end, there's no philosophy. I'm like, great. Show me the robot.

But I also think that if you're also embracing, as I made the point earlier, the Zion part of it, you know, because one is all matrix. Yeah. With a blend of, hey, we're on the ship, we're doing this, but it's like 80, 90% matrix. Yeah. Right. Second one is like 70% matrix, 30%, you know, Zion on the real world, maybe even a little

bit more, but not much. And then the third one is like 80% real world, 20% matrix, which I think is why a lot of people got lost in that one. But again, we'll talk about that in a bit. But this one and watching what that scene and setting up the fact that choice beliefs, the idea that Morpheus is going to have his. beliefs tested, that the Oracle keeps giving this message of each single person who every single time they tells them, you've got to make a choice no matter if it's Morpheus, if it's Naobi,

no matter who it is. You've got your choice and what you need to do, especially Neo and these conversations she has to have with Neo and the meeting that he needs to have with her in order to have these type of conversations. Every time he meets with her, he gets stronger, right? And new things happen because it's not necessarily just from what she tells, but it's him inside of his head then making the choice to say, okay, well, and I have. to go this way. I have to do that. I have to maneuver. And I like the idea that he can't get to

his friends through the key master part and that whole thing. Like I like that even though went on forever. Yeah. The idea of it is like, where are you now? I'm in the mountains. And then what did bother me? And this is not Harold Perrin's fault. It's the writing. How many times is Harold Perrin are going to look at the thing goes, what's that? It's Neo. It's Neal, motherfucker. You know what is it's every single time. It's always Neo. Yeah. It's like, I don't, I don't know what that is. It's neo. If you see something that's different in the thing, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're You're on the ship. The first time, okay, you're brain new to this.

The seven time? Yeah. Come on, dude. What are you doing? You're going to get better at your job. Yeah. Right. And why do they always say operator, by the way?

Like, it's like, because we now know. I like the wizard. I like operator operator the wizard from the first movie. And then they went back. I'm like, no, we've already broken it. Like we're out. We're good. You don't need to do it anymore.

It's like, well, what I would have, what I always thought of was that because if by accident, somebody who's plugged into the matrix calls them. Great. And then they go operator, but you never see that. You never hear that. So it's just like, yeah, that's what I always assumed. It was just in case someone got the wrong number of zero. But even so operated, just like, hello?

Yeah. It's like, it's cooler, man. It's cooler. Mr. Wizard, get me the hell out of here. I love that. But set me up a little bit. It was earned the first one. And then we get like the second and third.

Come on. What are we still doing here? Right. I do like that when he goes to the Oracle, that reminds me of like what I perceive meditation as is, is unlocking new mental abilities to withstand stuff. So I've always like, I struggled with meditating for, 30 years and only in the last like three

I've been able to actually achieve it and to me that always felt like as soon as your brain goes oh I have more choices because I'm able to calm my thoughts I can actually perceive the world broader and to me it always felt like that's what like meditating was meant to be so I always love the Oracle as a way to like unlock a new level in your mind so to speak

and I do feel like they show that well in these two films there was one there was one moment that I felt like was so clunky and I was like is this the writing is this Keanu it was when he's in with the architect and Trinity's picture comes up and he goes,

Trinity. Yeah, right, yeah, yeah. And I'm like, that happens a couple different times about this series, yeah. That's the other thing. Trinity!

These movies do that a lot. It's like, it's like, but if I see you, I go, Kate, and you go, Christian. It happens all the time in these movies. It's like morphis, Naiobi, Naiobi.

That other guy. What's the third guy's name? Admiral Blanche. Blah, blah, blah. We hate each other. But it's not like one of these things where I'm like, Goy. And you're like Christian.

It's like, boy. It's just short of soap opera. Like it's just sort of like push in zoom. Right. But a lot of this stuff that happens in, you know, this movie does sit up. Like I said, and I stick by it. And when I saw it originally, I felt the same way.

I was like, okay. So this movie, a lot of people were disappointed by it, right? I liked it because I said, well, it just depends on how the third one delivers. And it's so weird after rewatching. it because I still feel now this is not, because this isn't, this isn't the, you know, okay, the, the, the second piece of it now. It's because you have now the, well, it's the second piece out of the four movies, you know, it's not just the end all deal. It's not the, it's not just the middle anymore. Right. And it was the middle, um, for a while. And it's still a four star film for me, but I'm really

disappointed in it to this day. It ended with, I'm going to show them something you don't want to see. And then he never does. Well, but no, but I wanted to see him flying around the world being like, You humans wake up. We saw it in At a Matrix, though. That's the thing. Neo? Yeah, man. Remember what he's doing?

He's, like, that's the whole thing with the kid. When the kid, he's, he's, he's been freeing people. And they talk about it briefly in this one. Yeah, okay. I know. Yeah, that's one short. Yeah, because Morphia says, we've freed more minds. Taking consideration, we have freed more minds in like six months than we have in whatever it was.

So they were doing it. They were, but, but one visual. But that's the problem is, and not even a visual. He says it in a line. Right. I would have liked a scene. Yes. Because like that's.

That's how it ended and I wanted, I wanted the whole sequel to be that. Well, it goes back to your, to your previous point of how the animatrix could have been a good, a good thing of them freeing people. Yeah. And going through, I'm going to show these people and realizing this is exhausting. Right. Because then it explains it. If he's at the end of the first movie and he's like, I'm going to show all these people what you want to see. And then the next movie is him trying.

He's like, there's too many of these fuckers. Yeah. And I don't know what to do. Because that seems beautiful when he's got all the believers coming up to him and like wanting a piece of time. And he's like, but I need you. Like they're like, Trinity says they need you. he says, I need you. That's such a beautiful scene.

It is. That should have been an entire act. Like, I would have liked more, like, if the first act of this film is freeing and seeing the people that believe and all those things, I would have been more invested in the characters. So when the fights happen, I care. But this is also why it is now harder for me. And I'll tell you, if there was not a fourth movie and we watched this movie as it is. I think I would have way more criticisms because now I don't know where it goes.

And I love that. And I love that. And maybe that's why I'm thinking Matrix over Spidey because, like, at the end of the day, there is more Spitey coming. And at the end of the day, it's got to be okay. And a lot of the same, and listen, I'm very clear. I'm very excited about Spider-Man. I can't wait to see Spider-Man.

But the thing is, for the most part, I know what I'm going to feel in Spider-Man. It's going to be a superhero movie. I'm going to see people that I hadn't seen in a while. It's going to be a lot of the same kind of tropes, maybe a couple different emotional moments. And it's a formulaic thing that I've seen before. That's fine. Yeah. And I'm excited for it.

Matrix could, if done right, could blow your fucking mind and could do it the right way in a fourth movie that you're like doing exactly what I just said. that and that's make it because this movie has the possibility to do two things it's either make two and three better because it ties in and makes more sense now or it kills the franchise because that absolutely and what higher stakes are there and that's why i think it's better to have the occasional movie that does this yeah because what we just described is spider man is i'm going into spider man with one expectation i'm going to the matrix than other expectation so if you ask me today i'm to say Matrix, but if I'm exhausted and I want to just enjoy something, I'm going to

say Spider-Man. Right. And that's why I think it's important to have movies where I look up a book. I haven't looked up before. Absolutely. I also, I felt like I understood more in two than I, I know you're saying that it was like sort of that, but I think. No, no, I don't think, no, let me, before you find your point, it's not that I feel like this, it's, it's that. It's that there's a lot of stuff that was heavy in dialogue with key ports and portals and that it's just like, could it have been simplified? Same message could it have been more simplified? I think part of, I think, I think part of the, um, what I think maybe works about these movies for me is that like, in the first one, there was stuff that I very much knew I wasn't catching.

I was very much new. I was like, I got to go back and watch this again. But this one I was sort of like, oh, that's, that looks cool. Right. Like, right. I probably missed a lot of shit, but I wasn't aware. Like, you're talking about like, and he's there and he's with Persephone and stuff. Like, I didn't know I was missing that.

And I don't know, like, you didn't feel an absence. He didn't lose anything by it. And I feel like that's maybe why I don't, I don't, I don't, mind. Right. Because there were things that you missed. I remember that we told you, no, no, this, this did happen. And it's like the hallway scene. Oh my God.

And you missed it like, you missed it for that particular thing. There's nothing that you, like that stuff that he mentioned. You don't miss anything out of the movie for not knowing that. That's just stuff that he picked up. That's stuff that they wrote. You didn't notice the Heisenberg uncertainty principle was a play in the matrix? Come on now, Kate. Right.

But I definitely felt like with the first one, I was like, oh, man, I'm not. So maybe that's what the benefit of two and three is they can be both heavy and more linear. You can have both the overcomplications. And also you're feeding both. Yeah. And I was sort of like, what a fine line that is. That's a beautiful rare thing in cinema to be like, hey, we can appease these crazies

that are going to research every book. And also like, look how dope this looks. Well, that's what they did because, but I do think that it would, it suffered from its own success of the first movie was because, like I said, there's just, and you could just, I could hear the studio execs going more bullet time, more bullet time. They like that. Everybody's doing that in the commercials now. And they just did it in Trek now.

So we got to do it even more. Yeah. How many Smiths are you got? we got about 15 he's coming out. Make it 150. Make it 300. Do a bowling pin sound. Do a scene where they're all coming running around and it's like you could, you could see that.

Like there was a lot of cooks in the kitchen. And I felt, I felt that way anyway. Maybe, maybe I'm wrong. But it wasn't, that's what I meant by overcomplicating things in general, not just with the dialogue with the too much, too much stuff going back to the highway thing because you get to the key master. Is that what he was? Was it the key master?

Yeah, I guess his name. Ghostbusters. But either way. But either way. Like, I liked him a lot because he was just kind of like a kind old man. Yeah. Gentle. I loved his gentle spirit.

Trying to come in? Yeah. Is his dog trying to come in? Maybe. Yeah. There's a sense. The curtain appears to be moving from the bottom. I've got to hear about your revolution's thoughts.

So I know, I know we got a time constraint with you, but I got a, I got a know. Oh, I think we have, I think we can start. We'll be able to start. Okay. Because I was worried. I'm like, I've never heard anyone say three is their favorite in the history of time. We'll be able to say. I'm sorry.

You're saying out of two and three. I think out of two and three, I do think I prefer three. I have similar thoughts to you that I wound up enjoying three. I've only seen three, I think once before this time. Cool. Me too. Total.

If I watched it, if I watched it a second time, which I very well might have. But if I did, there's a lot that I didn't remember. Two, two I've seen a handful of times because I remember, I think that I just, I remember seeing two in the theater probably two or three times. Yeah, I watched it a bunch. Definitely only saw once. And then I said, eh. And I think it was.

is because of the way I summarized for myself is that what I felt so fascinating about the first one, and they still had a lot of it in the second one, was the Matrix. The Matrix is nonexistent in the third one. Yes. For the most part. And even when it is, it's not the Matrix that you really know. It's corrupted by Smith. I think we're to get 90, 10, and 4.

Yeah. 90% Matrix. I did forget, I was like, wait, why is Keanu Reeves not doing better fighting? Like, why is he? And I'm like, oh, he's not in the fucking Matrix. Like, yeah, he's a dude. He's in the real world. And that goes back to the beginning of this movie, or excuse me, the end of this movie, where Neo does the thing to the Sentinels when they're coming in.

He shuts them all that. And Morphia, which I love the fact that Morpheus is so defeated mentally. He's just like, his whole purpose, his purpose has been defeated. Because his purpose is that the one is going to free him. The war is going to be over, right? Which ultimately happens. But he. Spoiler.

Yeah. But he is, but he believes, he said, well, what happened? She lied to me, too? Like what, what's going on? And then here's Neo who becomes a Jedi and shuts it all down and then passes out and falls down. And here's Bain running around the joint. And now Bain has shut down stuff. And then there's this really weird ending with the table and then Bain and then To Be Continued,

the weird horror movie ending. Yes. Yeah. Which I didn't love. Because it's just like to be to be concluded. Yeah. Which now not true. Yeah.

Now not true. Liars. Yeah. Fucking liars. Scum. But you know what I also noticed is that everybody. really has clean teeth in the Matrix and I'm sure that they all use

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Is there anything else besides we shut it down for this one that we're missing? We got the relationship, obviously, what's going on his eye on? And commander who wants to, he doesn't believe, well, he's jealous because Morpheus is to plows ladies. And then, but now he's, and it's always that guy. It's like, dude, but you got her now. But his beliefs juxtaposing on top of it. If you're worrying about it, you're going to lose her, which you don't necessarily do, but you kind of feel like he will. And during all that, you know, he doesn't believe any tells, and he keeps getting shit on every single time because then the president, if you will, he's just like, nah, you take the ship.

Go ahead. Take the Nebuchadnezzar out. And the Nebuchadnezzar, when the Nebuchadnezzar blows up, you feel it. And what I thought they did very well with that ship was they almost treat it like the falcon. Yeah, there's a loyalty. It's a personality. Yeah. And so, and when Morpheus feels it go, we feel it go.

I like that moment in the movie a lot. Yeah. I do feel like that I did, I mean, I'm obviously watching things through Star Wars eyes these days. Yeah, of course. But I did feel like there were, I don't know if they were even intentional homages to Star Wars, but like, yes, the forest. I was like, oh, I've seen this before when Vader, you know, pick somebody up by their neck from 10 feet away.

There was just like a lot of stuff like that. And also I felt like the vehicle, like, I don't know, just sort of like sometimes the look feels their empire to me too. You'll see like an anime Star Wars. Wars blend. And these are archetypal concepts. I feel like they're definitely blending beautifully. But our main, like our access to those is Star Wars.

So like that would be the parallel. Did the Martin, you know what I liked? And again, this goes, speaking of Star Wars and the stuff that I've been blue in the face about saying the stuff that I think that works with the TV with Star Wars that they've gotten back to is the stuff, the homage to the stuff that inspired Star Wars, right? That was lost in some of the, some of the sequel films. How dare you? How very, do you?

I apologize. However, I feel similar to the second matrix, right? Where there is that philosophy and there's all that stuff that's there, but by doing the stretching out of the taffy, if you will, you know, there's this stuff like that I felt like even though the martial arts is there, it was different. Like I felt like in the first movie when they're like the kung fu movie was there. You felt the impact of the blows. This feels like, and I know one of them is meant to be a dance with Suraf, but the rest feel like a dance. And you don't feel like the same. It's not the same attachment to the kung fu side of it.

Or even the Western when he's in the first movie, when he's back with Smith and like the paper bag flies by and it's supposed to signify like the dust thing. It feels like that stuff that made it. Oh, that feels like that. That was kind of lost. And it just felt like, you know, here's a video game. Because it felt like a video game.

Sorry. Good bless you. No, could you hear my stomach? A little bit. My stomach went. Mead some of those tasty weeds. Yeah. My thing and this is the philosophical approach is in the concept of the cave,

which I brought up in the first. rewatch, the idea is that the true forms of beauty, of love, of things that are the true forms is the language they use. The more removed you get from those, the more everything is a copy of a copy of a copy. The more it fails, and this is a copy of a copy of the original philosophy concept. So to me, there is definitely some paralleling of the irony of a movie about escaping the cave, putting us back in the cave. And I feel like the first movie brought us out of the cave, the second one kind of put us back in, and the third one was shackled us right back to the wall. It's a diluted metaphor. Morpheus also in this movie

was not as impactful for me as he was in the first one. Yeah. And again, not Fishprint's problem at all. It's the writing, like even though Zion, Hebe! It's like his speech is so, it's not a great speech. It's not the writing's not great, but it's him. It's him.

It's him, and you're like, okay, but it's like when you... I agree. And the one thing is, we are still here. Part of it is cool. Yeah. But part of it's like, that's not a great speech. No, like Gerard Butler's 300 was much better. Or Bill Pullman in, yeah.

Yes. And what's interesting about that speech is he's Morpheus, which is, you know, the god of dreams. And in the first film, he uses the dream metaphor of the dream pulled over your eyes to make you so you don't know you're dreaming, like the visuals. And in this one, he talks about a dream of a Zion that's free. So in every iteration, we've never seen the reality that he chooses to live in. So we've got two worlds, but we kind of have a third. world and everything is just an abstraction to morphus. He's always chasing something. He's never fulfilled the dream of reality, the dream of this thing. So that speech was kind of like muddling the

rest of his, for me, the rest of his ideals. Like if he's always chasing something, we've already got the one. We've already got these things. Bro, live in the now. And maybe that's what the character's supposed to represent is like he's never capable of living in the now. And that's why he lost Naobi. But I do feel like that speech was kind of counter to many of his other beliefs. Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot there. Listen, Sean Astin's speech as Mikey in the Goonies. I mean, come on, that's the bar. That's where that's where we go. But it doesn't lead to a rave origin. And frankly, you make a great

point though that it because Lawrence Fishburn is the reason why he sell that at all. It's his gravitas. It's what he does. And even you know, watching, and nobody's watching him from the side and like, there's, and there's a lot. And we also set up links relationship and I thought

that was set up really well with with, um, is it Dozer and Tank's sister. So, and the fact. And you like those families. Of course. And they're, and quickly. Like that one joke we got with pooh. Like there are moments of like that. And they're so rare like you said that you really like need that laugh.

Because it's not because it's it doesn't feel forced. Right. It feels like, okay, that's just a moment. They threw it. This would be funny if if so-and-so says it here and like the it's, it worked. You know what I? And you need that humanity again to juxtapose the machines. Lawrence Fishfern read the entirety of the Raven at Stanley's funeral.

And it was one of the most impactful 15 minutes of just like this man could do anything. And I do feel like a lot of the lines of the Wachowski. writer just like Larry's going to say it. We don't have to worry about it. There was one line though that, and it was the third movie, and we can talk about it now, but that did not work for me is, I think you

should drive though. It's like, that's what you're thinking about right now. That's your moment. That's the moment. But that's another thing. But the second movie, overall, I did enjoy it more.

I enjoyed watching this movie leading up to the third one, because I started to think that I was going to dread the third one, and we'll talk about the third one. in a moment. I did not, but I thought that, okay,

this is exactly how I felt. I did the same way as you guys, though, I said, this is cool to look at, but man, you could have fit so much more of the matrix

and the philosophy and the overall idea if you would have just cut out, just trim some of this fat. 14 minutes of the motorcycle. Is that how long it was? No, I mean, truly, I'm telling you,

it's a $60 million dollar chasing, $60 million because they built a highway. Yeah. So it's a circle. They literally built a circle of a highway. That way they could And it's all GM vehicles. So they literally have one company sponsoring the vehicles.

And it's a $60 million seed. I just remember. It's idiot. It's like four Indies. It's crazy. And the thing is that because that movie made, the first movie made a, it did not cost a lot of money to me. No. It made a shit profit.

It made a shit ton of money. And the, and now, now you can, here's, here's that budget times a thousand. Right. Go fucking nuts. And it's like, but that's what made the movie so special. And the technology. The first one, you didn't need it. He invented tech for the first one.

You didn't invent tech for the second one, so it felt like it was chasing evolution versus revolution, ironically with the third title. You didn't need the big budgets to be, because you had the core of the special. I mean, there are some really visually gorgeous stuff that's happening. There is a ridiculous part in this movie that I have to, I'm so glad I remembered it.

And I caught it when I saw it the first time in the theater. It's so stupid. When he's fighting all of the, what's the name, the McAvellian? Meravingian. When he's fighting that, when he's fighting that, guy, his buddies.

He's fighting everybody in the room. And it's, again, a scene that goes on way too long. There's, uh, there's an Asian dude that he's fighting on the stairs. And Neo just punches him in the face and the guy goes, huh. And passes out for some reason. And then comes back and he's fighting and Neo hits him in the head with a big thing and crushes his skull. But it's just like, watch that scene.

If you're watching, he just goes to sleep. He just, and he just punches him and he goes, it's so weird. It's so bizarre. It's such a stupid. choreography. And I just, choreography was, I think a lot of this movie, the best way I could say, as much as I don't mind this movie, a lot of it is overcooked. So for me, the first film is one of, I've only given 15 films in the history of cinema five stars. I don't believe in perfection, but I think

15 films are perfect. And this is one of them, the first one. This one to me was, was a little bit better than I was afraid. I'd remember it. Like, I was very trepidacious to reopen this. So I gave this four stars. We'll talk about the third film next week. But the drop off between one and two was, was way easier to handle than for me, the drop off from two to three. really excited to talk about that. And that said, there are more images in this than I remembered being so impactful to me. Like the Zion rave scene, the orgy scene, like, that's one of the reasons I want to go to Burning Man, like, not to be perverse, but like I wanted to see what a culture of people that were all out of technology that were all about each other, communicating

in that way. And to me, that is, and that's what we talked about it briefly last week in the first matrix with like how important I think sex is to humanity. I do think they captured sex in this movie without it being perverse. And that's a beautiful thing for people to experience. I agree with that. And I also think that there's a, you know, there's a scene we didn't really talk about that is if, you know, I do like the idea that Trinity, she's promising, you know, he knows that she's going to be in trouble. That scene's going to happen and open the one that we open up with. And he's like, okay, I didn't, the only reason she goes in is to save them. Right. Because they, the rest of them crap out in that scene. She's got to do it, right?

So she goes in and she says to him, I'm sorry, which plays in later on in the franchise, but like, and he reached, and I love that scene when he, you see. the computer code and he reaches and he restarts her heart inside because he can see it because that that makes more sense than when he's using the force

in the real world and then Bain becomes Smith like the Bain becomes Smith is a weird horror film and it's like I if someone in the common section well the reason why that works is because it transfers through the thing

I get it but it's still fucking weird but I also don't understand why they've all seen Neo die in the matrix and they know he doesn't die in the real world why don't why does any but why is dying in the matrix a threat for any of them anymore. They now all should believe that they won't actually die.

Because he's the one. Yeah, because that's the whole point. He's able to manipulate things. To a level that he hacks the matrix to a level that no one else could because of being the law. And the president even says it to him. I've seen a lot of different things. I don't under,

I don't know how you do the things that you do. Yeah. Just like when you, if you watch an Olympian, you're not like, yo, I'm gonna go. Like you can't because you've seen it be done.

You know it's possible. Right. The thing is you know it's possible, but it doesn't mean you can do it. Okay. So I think looking at extreme athletes a great way, but also like an extreme athlete, but plus the mental. Like there's a moment of hesitation.

And that's the only reason that I would accept like, well, you know, they can't kill the agents or beat them, but now they know, Neo's train them a little bit more to know how to fight them. That's a stretch. It's a stretch. But the Smith parallel to Neo is the only way I was able to rationalize Bain is that he's the mirror. But we don't learn that until the third film.

So it kind of felt like retroactive. It was, it was a strange, creepy moment in a weird moment when he's able to transfer through. it's like so the machines very similar to what you just asked if he's able to do this thing and maybe it's just because he's the one when it comes to the machines but why aren't all the machine agents transferring their their consciousness into well because I think he broke him from the code of the matrix I get it I get it but it's just again it's many leaps that's where it gets too complicated and it's like I I understand why they had to do it and I think that it allows the eventual what we'll get

to in the third movie but there's there's a lot of stretches in this movie in the franchise that I think that lost a lot of people. But again, it plays into the third movie, which we will be talking about, ladies and gentlemen, with myself. Kate will be there for the first half of that one. But Koi and I will be talking about it for sure. I hope you guys enjoyed this rewatch. Thank you so very much for joining us.

For Matrix Reloaded. If you're brand new to, who is this now? Oh, let's see. I'm going to talk to. Oh, yeah, yeah. This is my favorite. Hold on. So Greg Alba, you're on the big thing with myself.

Andrew and Kate Mulligan. How are you, sir? Coy, that hack. But I have good news for you, Greg. You're actually, the sound is on for this, for this one. Oh my God, I finally made an appearance of the big thing. Hi, Kate Mulligan. Hi, Greg. Oh. Hi, Greg. So, yeah, we were just, we're wrapping up Matrix, um, reloaded.

Oh, yeah. Coy talking about how he's like so surprised of how he loved the movie and then suddenly he rewatched it. point of views towards a change. That's the third one. We're going to get there. We're going to get there. We're going to get there on the third.

Okay. Oh, spoilers. But actually, I do need to, are you going to be around a little later on? Can I give you a shout? It's a big maybe. I know, I know. We're running high to, we're almost Spider-Man. Do you guys do Spider-Man videos?

I love your Spider-Rare. I love your channel. Everybody should be checking out the Real Rejects, by the way. phenomenal, phenomenal channel. So, um, all right. Dude, yeah, I'll try you and then you get me back when you can.

All right. All right. All right. Great, great. It's a big maybe. Yeah, we talked to revolutions last night. It was,

yeah, they're slammed. Um, anyway, okay, look, so that was, uh,

that was Matrix, reloaded. Matrix revolutions coming up next week. Myself, Coy and Kate. And I think I, it depends. I'm going to talk to,

to Koi about. We're going to try to plan it out. This might, this third one might come out next week or might come out this week. I don't know yet. We'll figure it out. You'll know soon. So thank you guys. Thank you so much. Thank you to Kate. And we shall see if you want to listen to us, by the way, on Apple Podcasts, you can do that. You can go to Apple Podcasts, check out Big Thing. We are there, Spotify, all of it. Check it out. It's a good listen in the car. All right. Peace.

If you've ever wondered what combat actually feels like, not the headlines, not the movies, but what it was like to be there. This is Combat Story. I'm A.J. Peschuti, a retired force recon Marine and scout sniper, and this show is for anyone who wants to understand the human side of war, through the people that lived it. I sit down with veterans from across generations and special operators, pilots, infantry, law enforcement, and everyone in between, and we talk about the moments that stayed with them, the missions that went right, and the ones that didn't, and what it costs during and after. There's no script and no agenda, just real conversations between two people who've walked similar paths. We're not here to create content. We're here to provide context. So whether you've worn the uniform or just want to understand those who have, watch, listen, and follow us wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Combat Story.