The Kristian Harloff Show - REWATCH! The Matrix Revolutions (2003) | The Big Thing

Episode Date: December 21, 2021

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And it is the last one. And look at these guys. They like being shit cats. I like being a shit cat. But it's time. It's time to wrap up the rewatch. And hey, what a nice way to open up Christmas Eve than to calling all my listeners shit cats.

But I hope you guys are doing well. I hope you're having a nice Christmas Eve. And I hope you're ready for the rewatch that we're about to do here for revolutions. movie's coming out. Now, it's already out for everybody, the new one. But instead of putting out the spoiler-heavy discussion that we're going to do, my spoiler review is already out, I'm sure, at this point. The non-spoilers already out at this point. But the full-on discussion with myself, and it'd just be coy because Kate's not cool enough to see the movie yet. Oh, no, you know what? She might see it. But it doesn't matter. We were pre-tate that. So either way, we're going to talk about,

we're excited to talk about this one. And very interesting takes in general of how we saw it. You can say that somebody watched it and said, oh, maybe this isn't as bad as I thought it was. There's another person who saw it. Oh, man, this was worse than I thought it was. And there's somebody who said, I've never seen this movie before. So you can figure out who that was in just a moment.

But we got a lot to talk about, ladies and gentlemen. It's Matrix Revolutions. It's Christmas Eve, everybody. I'm sure you're all going to watch this next week because right now you're stuffed on turkey. You're doing it over the hell you doing. All right, let's do it. Let's get to it.

Meow, meow, meow, meow, meow, check cats, chick cats, shit cats, shit, shit. Shit cats, shit, shit, shit, shit, shit. Oh, my God, we're going to get demonetized. What's up, everybody? Welcome back. What a cool poster that is, though. It's gorgeous.

You love that Matrix Revolution's poster. All right. It's the third movie. It's Matrix Revolutions. It's me. It's Kate. It's Coy. It's the three of us.

I watched this movie. It really is a, the movie came out six months after the second movie came out. in the theaters. I remember being so excited about that. I understand why they did that because it was, this is one big movie. This is not a part two and a part three. This is one big movie. And you could feel that even the way that to be concluded at the second movie with Bain on the table.

And then I think that I stick to the point that I made last week, which is I think a lot of people didn't accept this movie because it's around. 80% real world slash Zion and like 20% of what they fell in love with and that's the Matrix and it really isn't much of the Matrix. It's the only, it opens the train stuff and the train the train guy and trying and how Neo got to that world didn't really make a lot of sense. It's like he connect. How is he in the Matrix? If he's not connected in, it's like, oh, because he's the one. It's like, oh, how is he able to fly? Because he's the one. And then he meets, I liked the scene with the family though. I really did like that scene with the program with the

family. The wife's like skeptos. Why are you talking to this guy? I think Satti is the most important thing from three for four. I think Sati's going to be, you think she's in it. She's in it, right? Yeah. And the end of three is what I think four is about. Who plays Sadi in the new one? It's the same girl, I think. Really? Yeah. I like that. Because time has passed. But what I love is, uh, actually, I want to hear, I want to hear your thoughts because I got, I got a rant. So I want to make sure I hear. It involves Sati. So I'm okay. No, I think, um, I had no, again, had no expectations. And so. what I sort of feel like this movie did well, I feel like the other movies,

there's not like classic A, B, and C storylines. This had different, this was different, well, it had different storylines. Like, I feel like we're only with Neo or wrong. And I feel like there was something about like, more direction. And there was just like, well, this, we're on this ship now,

but this is still at the Zion base. And so I felt like they were telling different stories at the same time, which is not really the way the other ones work. And I sort of felt like, I don't know, I felt like visually a lot of stuff was compelling. I love the,

the Jada Pekin Smith whipping that fucking ship around going up the pipes and stuff like that. Like it again, do I feel like it changed? Was this a movie that changed my life anyway? No, but like was I,

did I feel like I wanted to turn it off and not keep watching it? No, not at all. It wasn't as terrible. I remember it being terrible. It's not terrible for me. Yeah. I remember watching this movie

and I can't remember if I've seen it more than once. If I did, I didn't remember shit about her. Except the stuff that obviously, in spoilers, if the fact, I remember, that Trinity died.

That I remember, and I remember not liking it then. And I, and at the time going into this, I would probably think, oh, why is she dead? But now with the fourth movie,

that's what I'm saying. I think because I know there's a fourth movie and I've seen the trailer, I was a lot more forgiving on what I saw because I know it's not over. I can see that. And I think it's similar to like the prequels when Star Wars,

when you see that, when Revenge of the Sith was the last movie, a lot of people like Revenge of the Sith, and as do I have definitely stronger appreciation to it. But when the prequel, were the last thing you ever thought you were going to get a Star Wars. People were like, eh, that was it?

Yeah. And people still love them and people, and now people love them even more so, myself included, because it ties into the Clone Wars series that we got and everything else. This is similar. Because when I watched this,

it's like, okay, if the fourth one delivers, the third one I think is going to start to play a lot better for people, it certainly did for me, but if the fourth one stinks, it's like, I don't know if I ever need to watch the third one again, because they set up a lot of shit at the end of this movie, like you said, like, you know, whether it's the little girl, whether it's the fact that the Oracle

and the architect are back talking again. They had a very lost vibe to it at the end. And when they're talking to each other and having that whole discussion, it's like, will Neo come back? Yes. The answer is yes. They didn't know at the time. I expect so.

I expect. She's right. Yeah. And she's right. And she will. Now the question is, how is it all going to play into each other? how much time has passed, clearly a lot. Yeah.

Because we see that Jada Pinkett Smith has aged significantly. Is she the same Neop? And the Marivinian has aged. Oh, is he in it too? See, I didn't see him either. So in the Marivangian, watch the Deja Vu trailer. When they're doing these, uh, these, these overlap fades, one of them is Marivinian and you see him with a long gray beard and then like it's,

four frames. But now I know he's in it. See, this is why I'm so glad I revisited and rewatch though, too, because I would have been, I would have been pretty long, not lost. I just would have forgotten a lot going into it. This as a refresher going into the new movie, I think I'm going to enjoy it even more so. And I do think that it makes the third one better.

I do. I was surprised how much I didn't mind watching this movie because I thought it was going to go into it going, oh man, this is going to be a job. It wasn't. I had to go take the dog for a piss. And I was like, I'm going to get back and finish this movie. That's how I felt that.

I was getting sleepy watching it. And I was like, but I actually really want to keep watching this. Like I really did want to. And I will say that like, you know, even things like, oh, are they like just moments of suspense. Again, it's not necessarily quintessential matrix. It's just like a good movie sort of suspense. But like, are they going to get, who's going to get the gate open? Who's going to get the gate open for them?

And like we're on the ship seeing them approaching with the gate not being open. We see the kid have to get into the thing. I mean, if you're somebody who likes to see that, like I said to you, like I love like in Clone Wars, both the movies. actually I think in the movie they've got those ATRTs which are like these little like running things that they sit in. Yeah. And like those big like avatar robots that they're shooting with remind like the way that things get reloaded. I don't know. I feel like it was cool to look at.

And I felt like there was a there was a again, I do think it was a sliding scale. There's the least amount of philosophy in this. I feel like this is pure just an action movie like a war movie. But I don't know. I didn't. It did not bother me. Yeah. With groceries and housing coffee.

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To learn more, go to RocketMoney.com slash offer. Or download the Rocket Money app from Apple App or Google PlayStores. it's so the things you guys are describing as as the things you enjoyed are the things I have a problem with so that that's what I think's interesting is the experience of when I watch a movie that's in the matrix franchise I don't want it to feel commodified and I feel like when we when we commodify or turn something into profit we lose the integrity of it just like I was talking about the four like last week I talked about the forms and I talked about the essential essence of art and like what it means to have something be sacred I do feel like the commodification of religion in this film was an issue for me what what it did with making things about. this journey we've been on landing with compromise. Like at the end of the day, this movie ends with, we've gone on this journey, we've had these beliefs and all this stuff.

And then Neo's like, a lot of you're going to have to stay batteries. I'm so sorry. Like it ends with the machines and humans having to kind of have a truce, which I would like if they landed there differently. I did not feel like I got any sort of closure or any sort of, and now with the fourth one, I might feel better like we're talking about.

That's what I mean, though. But I do worry that we went on a three movie journey to end with what they did in the animatrix in seven minutes. I don't disagree with you. I think that it's a... I do. It's a major risk, though, with the movie. It's like if, because it won't change your...

If they do it the right way, it will change your thoughts on this movie. It can change your thoughts on this movie on how, because it plays into, because they're not ignoring two and three. They're playing in everything that happened. They're going to connect it all. As you mentioned with the little girl, if she's coming back, like all these different things that they're going to play in and how it all plays together. What version of Neo this is?

They've talked about it with the architect, how many versions. of Zion had been blown up before they finally did it. Did that version of the city stay open for a while because of the choices Neo made? What happened afterwards, right? Because... Now, that's the stuff I... The quantifacian stuff I don't like, but you brought up Sotty, the girl. The thing I do like is

there's an underlying concept of two worlds in all these films. There's the Matrix and then there's the dream world. There's the Zion world and the dream world. What I do like is that there's a commentary through Satti about she doesn't know the difference. There's a great conversation between Kianu, where she's like, I can't go home again and Neo says neither can I.

And like there's this moment of like what home represents, what worlds represent. And there's this underlying commentary on each world is just as real as the other depending on your perspective. What I love is when she makes the sky her own creation, to me that symbolizes you need to find beauty in whatever world you're in. And the more our world, like this actual world of ours gets more and more digital.

The more we accept our reality as being because of the internet. The more we live online digitally, the more each of us on the internet, internet jobs, spend time on Twitter and YouTube and seeing you through digitally, the more we have to accept finding the beauty in that world. And I think Sati represents the new millennia of technology. To me, Sati represents what we all kind of do for a living and it landing with a positive, even though the nihilism, the niche of like, everything's worthless, rub me the wrong way. The last bit with her makes me go like, oh, there's hope. And hope is what I want out of the fourth

film. Yeah, and I think that that's the way they kind of set up. Kate, you were going to say? Well, yeah, I, um, A, Coy Lighten the fuck I'm just kidding. No, I'm just kidding. No, I, I, yeah, I mean, I hear all of that, but I also feel like, so I guess the question I have for you is, were you disappointed by the machines and the humans working, like, that Neo, after all of these years of it being like, the humans oppress the machines, now the machines take over, the machines oppress the humans, now they've got a common enemy because as we see, whether it's us inventing machines or machines inventing machines, one of the machines has gotten two powers. powerful. You didn't like the... I loved the idea. I hated the execution. Okay.

I love the concept. We see that in real, like, all the time. That's how we should perceive things. I am with you, though, the stuff with Smith, it gets,

it just gets lazy at the end, and like when he's... And the dialogue is headhanded. The dialogue is suddenly like, we have mutual enemy. I'm like, where is any sort of subversal commentary? That's true also.

And the fact that, you know, he took over the Oracle. She knew what was going to happen. She knew, she saw it from the, this was the journey that was going to happen, how it was all going to play out.

That's the reason why she's the Oracle, right? And the fact that that's why she let him take her over, why she was able to give him that message at the end where she says like everything that has a beginning has an end. Like she's talking to him. He's like, what did I just say? I didn't mind that, right? It just, and then because then he allows himself to take over Neo

and then it blows him up, but then the whole, he's taken over the whole matrix and every single person in it has been corrupted by Smith. He's a virus. Right. I understand that. It's the fight at the end, even though they're playing that really epic music. The slow motion like kick to the chest.

Yeah. Yeah. Every rain drop is so. We've seen it. It's, it just wasn't. And the CGI there does not hold it. No, it's not as impactful. The music is even though it's like, you can make the music as loud as you are.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's not hitting me home. Yeah. And the score of all three of these is incredible. I know you're usually like the music is a huge sound. It's great. Part for you. And I felt that more because of our conversations.

But then I was like, I wish the visual is. match the way the music made you feel. It wasn't the music I had a problem with. It was the fact that I'm just, I'm not as invested in this fight as you want me to pay. Yeah, this video game cutscene has gone on a while. I'd like to play again, please. Because what you've done is you've done in. I'm like, are we still? Are we still acting out of it? You set me up. You've set me up with this now story that I'm invested in for the whole thing. And now we're now we're now you're now you're, now you're, you're introduced in the second movie. Which is overdoing the action. And it's like, we know, but we're not doing that for this movie now. You're you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you me all these little side stories. And it's fine when Niobe's coming through and she's and she's racing through. Because that's part of the story. They got to, they got to have people on the gunners and like,

I love the idea that, you know, the Sentinels are coming in. Like, I liked the Zion stuff in this more so than I, than I remember liking it. Like the, the fact that,

you know, captains up there trying to get, get them out of the way and try to, there's, there's no winning against these things. It's just, there's just not. And they have to make it to that level of like,

there is nothing you can do. We have to be on the same side. Like, I get all of that. But I think the problem with execution versus concept is if it felt like both sides won instead of both sides lost. Because I don't want to go through a journey like I felt emotionally and philosophically and existentially about this journey and feel like everyone loses because then it's the it's the Merivengian winning. It's the idea that determinism is everything is worth nothing. And they very clearly established in Matrix Reloaded that the Marivinian was wrong.

So it's like they're betraying their own underlying concepts. And he gives up pretty easy in this one. And he gives, he gives up pretty easy. So we need the end to feel like everyone won by compromising instead of everyone losing by compromising. Yeah. It's it is, I mean, there are things that just kind of don't tie in. And it also made me realize that or made me think at the end, like who's going to be the bad guy in the force? Is it the machines if we've established that the machines are not the bad guys?

Well, I think about like, I think about like just U.S. war history. And I think about how we for a while were arming the Afghan, the Taliban so that they would fight Russia for us. Yeah. How did that work for us? Ultimately, we don't have those. So I feel like maybe there's a that sort of, like maybe there is something like we've made a, we've had a truce with these people. Right. It does seem like the architect when he's talking to the Oracle at the end, it's like, we're going to do this again.

Yeah. It's going to happen again. It's just to be able to happen differently. Can you guys before I go explain to me? So she, or so Smith goes in, in facts, he's going to take over NEO. He's taken over it. Because he said he's like, do you like what I've done with the place? He's pretty much affected every single person inside of it.

Exactly. So he's, but why is it that? So then Neo just like hangs on to a sliver of himself. Like how does Neo beat him once Smith's inside? Well, it looks like he's locked into the machine mainframe. So that's the thing is, does the machine help? The machine are helping. My interpretation is from the first film, there's a commentary on getting to the source.

And then when Neo gets to the source and realizes that isn't enough, he's like, wait, it didn't just end. now I've got to go further. To me, I always saw it as the source wasn't the location. The source was the actual machine that he had to bond with. So I think once he bonded with the source, it wasn't a, it wasn't a location. It was a concept. It was a, it was a mindset. So I think once he was able to bond with the machines to that level, that's the only way he was able to overcome Smith.

So he was part of the entire. And they respect them. It's way they don't just drop his carcase on it. They carry him out. It's a Messiah style. Exactly. That's way. Because he was them in that moment.

Right. He was with them. Right. He also very willingly, like there's the moment. where he says, like he hears Smith call him Neo. And he's like, and then he, then Smith starts saying like, what did I say? And like it's almost like, at least the, it's almost like Neo knows what's about to have. He does.

Yeah, he does. So does he know that the machines are going to help? Well, yes, remember that the Oracle is part of the machine in the first place. Right, right. So the Oracle being connected to the machine in general, knowing that the machines are, the machine new right away. He's like, when he's like, you got to work with me. He's like, well, what if, what if you fail? He's like, I won't.

All right, that's good enough for me. And they plug him in. I liked the bonding between them because that's how they're going to work together. That's how they're going to like. And throughout the films, he's been part of the Matrix. Like I was explaining in our reloaded rewatch. Like, he's the 1% that causes the change. He's the thing.

So I did like that. I do think. Oh, the voice of. Which one? The Gerber face. The Gerber face, the Gerber baby yelling at me. I love that. What are you doing here?

I'm the dentsia and evil. None of us make face. as ever, but I do. I don't believe in humanity, but I'll make a human face real quick, bro. Yeah, clearly the third one bothers me. But I think the very end is just like in the first film where he has to let go and trust in the removal of self. And that's also very sacrificial.

He believed at the end. That's what I like to. When Morpheus says, he's like, he doesn't really know whether it's going to work or not. He just knows that he has to. Because it's the end of all things. And that's what Agent Smith has been leading up to all the time because Agent Smith originally just wanted to get out of the Matrix. Once he was broken out of the Matrix,

he wanted to destroy everything. And Oracle even says, like, once this is destroyed, he's going to keep destroying until nothing is left. So he achieved that in the third film up into exactly this point. So it was the antichrist. Yeah. It's the Hail Mary of like,

this doesn't work, there's nothing left. And then the faith, the belief, the and then tying into the source. Yeah. In my opinion. All right. So you're got to go.

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And I think that what we do here is that with this lead, and there is some stuff. And it's funny because, like I said, I just think that this movie, the third one, if I didn't know that the fourth one was coming out, I would just be like, all right, that's still pretty, eh.

But because I know there's a new movie coming out. It does open the problems back up and I'm positive. Like the things I want solved now can be solved conceptually. And I do like some of the undercurrents of like binary thought is death. Like things aren't black and white. I like there's a lot of like equality of religion like Sarafzine in the second one. I think it was where he's got a bunch of different religious artifacts next to like a soccer ball and stuff. And there's a lot of really cool visuals about like the equality of believing in the world.

And in this movie especially, there's a lot of being present in this world that is important for your happiness that I don't think they touched on the other two. Like when they're in Zion, that's important. When you're in the matrix, that's important. They have to see. And that's what I love about Sati so much. And I hope all of that pays off in four I hope all of those like It's weird that the third movie felt like

It was like setting up a thing that they didn't know Was gonna have 20 years later Well that's the so that's that's that's the thing is that it's it's it's such a It's such a fingers crossed for the fourth one Because I can see us walking out of that movie two different ways Because you're gonna see it together yeah And we're gonna look at each other We're gonna be like it did it

It's coming back we're gonna get or oh no We have to go record a review yeah or it's gonna be Do you like that part of the Matrix where she forgot her water? Oh yeah I do love that part. Trinity always thirsty. But it's like, but it's,

there's that, that moment that I don't want to live of just like, of looking at you and going, just, and the stakes are so high. It was. It's like, it's just,

it's so complicated. They over did it. It doesn't work. Like they tried to do something that just, it took a big swing, but they just whiffed. And I've never reviewed one of these because in 99, I was 11.

Right. And I've never, I've never done anything immediately after. And that's going to be really unique of us. We're going to be a digesting it in real time. Right. Like we're going to be actually experiencing what our first thoughts are on a movie that's probably like, you know, because we're going to pre-tap books.

Like I go into the need of it. Yeah, well, we're going to pre-tape our, like, right after we see it. That's what I'm saying. So there will be no time to Google. There won't be. And we're just going to have a fresh conversation right out of it. It won't come out right away. But that's going to be really interesting for us because we're going to have different thoughts than what normally would be my exposure to the matrix.

Right. Usually I finish one of these movies and get into all of the allegory. But this is going to be like, what's it like as a movie? what's it like as a not researched experience? Like it's going to be really different. It is. It's going to be like there's going to be that inevitable conversation that we have about. Is this the end of the franchise?

Is this a reboot to the franchise? The game intrigues me because the Unreal Engine is very expensive and the promotion they're putting into it. I'm wondering if it does well how much they've mapped out and do we get like an HBO Mac show. Yeah. So I haven't I mean at this point probably when this comes out, I will have seen that trailer. But so you've seen that trailer already to do. It ties into the story.

and everything, obviously. Keanu and Karyana are in it. Okay. So it's very much like, this is the Matrix. Similar to like Enter the Matrix. Yes. Like that was with Naomi.

Yeah. So it's very much like this is essential to the story, I imagine. But I also think they've learned some lessons about making it so it's not prohibitive for the experience. Because I remember a lot of people were complaining in 2003 about like, I don't know what's going on because I didn't play this. I didn't do this.

I don't think they'll make that mistake again. But I also think we live in a more digital, compatible time where we have Disney Plus shows, tying into the movies where we have, people are more aware of multimedia universes. Yeah. But this movie, because this, and a lot of this rewatch is going to be very relevant to what we're talking about because it's the tie-in of what the hell happens to Zion, how they protected Zion. What's the, what's the, is it Locke?

Is that the, the, the, Naomi's boyfriend? Yeah, the General Locke or whatever. Yeah, yeah. So he, he, he pisses me off in this movie, but he's supposed to because he's, he's just not a believer, right? He's just, I got to do what I got to do. And he's not wrong in a certain. aspect where he's even I like the idea of the MP when he's just like they're like we did it we saved the city he's like but you didn't for a minute he's like you saved it for a second yeah he's like he's

like he just shut down the whole system you know had you not left in the first place probably could have just whacked that out in the in right away when they came in and then we could have reset right so he wasn't wrong and I love that are our villains other than the machines and then even the machines are things we have to go like oh I kind of get it yeah it didn't it and I and the battle scenes and the stuff played for me more this time around like when, you know, you got, I didn't, I don't remember, I don't remember all the characters' names. I don't, but I remember Z is the, is, Link's girlfriend. So when Z and I can't remember the, the woman that she's running with when blowing up the,

all that girl's awesome. She's great. She's great. And like, that, that whole thing, it's funny because I remember. More Zion works for me than Matrix. Like when they're on Zion. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm into it.

Well, that's, but that's what they play into in this one. Right. I don't disagree with you at all that the stuff inside the Matrix in this one is the least intriguing part about it. Right. Initially, when I saw it, it bothered me more.

That's good. Because I think that now, because there's so many different kinds of media, the fact that I know the fourth one's coming out, because when I saw it, I was like, well, this whole thing, well, you've sold me what was so cool about this franchise,

was the Matrix. Yeah. And the idea of the Matrix and then manipulation of the Matrix and all that. And like, now you're just having me spend all this time in this city, in this post-apocalyptic world. And I don't know if I want to be there. Right.

But now. Now I'm like, Like, first of all, because I know I'm going back into the Matrix, way more accepting of it. Plus the fact that it's like, well, I kind of more so based, it just felt to me back in the day. It's like, okay, here's Star Wars, but we're not going to show you any Jedi, no force or anything too. Sure. Works in Rogue One. Yeah.

Right? So this to me played a little bit more like Rogue One-ish when I watched it this time around and saying, okay, no, again, knowing that it leads into something else. I think that it was in the lead in. I don't know if I would like this much as I did this time. I just wanted more conversations about what the movie was, the underlying stuff, like the scene in the second movie where they're talking about the machines feeding each other and like the responsibility.

There weren't enough scenes like that for me that it was like, I want to know why they see binary thought is evil. I want to know why they see this commodification of religion is problematic. I want to see those conversations. And instead it was like, let's spend 10 more minutes in the rain. And they kept cutting to stuff where I was like, but we're watching The Matrix, not Action Movie 7.

Like Action Movie 7 is $5 at Walmart. I can watch that later. Right. I didn't get enough. It did have that. It had that. Plus, and then it played into that whole, like, with Bain, you know, with Smith jumping into Bain, that that weird horror movie thing. And then those are the stuff that Kate liked. So that's great. Right. Because that's what she wanted from this movie.

And so I can't say for better or worse that other people like this movie less or more than me. My experience was this wasn't the, the thing that makes the Matrix special is it's 80% philosophy, 20% action. This was 1090 the other way. It was. And it was, I mean, there was stuff that they, there was a lot of action for sure, but I think that even more so than just the 10% of philosophy and 90% action,

I think it was more generic science fiction film than it was special Matrix film. Yeah, even Matrix film, even Matrix Action. That's, I think, more so because I don't feel, I feel like the second one is more of an action film, to be honest. I just think that the... It was Matrix action. It was Matrix action.

And even that we talked about how diluted it was. It was definitely diluted. But the third one just seems like a like a science fiction movie, which is I think maybe why I liked it a little bit more this time because I look. Your speed now. Like that's where you've evolved your taste. Yeah, but I also, I didn't. But and it's just to sound like a broker record here. It's just that it's the, it's the fact that I know it connects to something else.

I know that the stuff that I missed from this, I'm clearly getting in the next movie. Yeah. And then you get two of those movies and you got two of the, like if you bookend, because it sounds like what's what you're saying. Like one and four is matrix heavy. And then the middle is Zion heavy. can rewrite everything. This might go up from two and a half stars to three and a half. And I might be,

I might be, um, you know, putting the horse pot on the car, whatever the saying is. Yeah, cut for the horse. For the horse first.

Um, but that's what I think I might be doing already. Sure. Because I've already, because I've, I've heard responded to these trailers. The trailers have gotten you enough excited about being, because arguably the four minutes of trailers are more in the matrix than this movie was.

It seems like, you know what you mean? Like, oh, or another new matrix. It feels like the classic to me. Even though the coloring. different. The choreography is different. It still feels like the matrix. It seems like they found

the heart again in it and if it plays into and if they don't ignore the story. Like there's always that there's that risk man. And as I mentioned, we just did the whole thing on Sith about the dual of fates comic that they based off of Truvaro's treatment, right? And the reason that I really enjoyed it is because as much as I don't like Last Jedi, it didn't ignore it, this duel of fates. Cool. It played with the, it played with the, have you read the comic? No. do it. I got to send it to you. Please. That sounds exactly my shit. It's way up your, your alley. Um, and some guy, somebody made it and, and it was, it's so great. And Travaro, like, liked it and everything too, but it's amazing. But the reason why I liked it is because it, it, it didn't

ignore, as where JJ clearly ignored tons of shit that Ryan did. And Ryan ignored a lot of shit that JJ did. This combined it all. And that's what I think that the fourth movie needs to do. Now, granted, it's not two different directors. It's, it's just Lana Wichowski doing what he had done in the past. Right. Now, as long as that's something, it doesn't seem like it is. If all three, regardless of if you'd like the third one or not, it can't be ignored. Right.

Too much happened. No, it's too much. Too much. And too much is set up with the, even with the train station shit and all that stuff, is like why that's there and all that. It reminds me like a Harry Potter thing. You remember Harry Potter in the last Harry Potter movie when Harry dies for a second or whatever to it?

Something like that. And he goes and he meets and he meets Dumbledore. It reminded me of that scene. It's interesting. It's very similar, yeah. And reminded me of that and then the idea of the kind of the peaceful, the being able to get there, the fact that Trinity has to save him to get him back.

And then it plays. And that's the beginning of this and the most of the Matrix E. I think it's the most matrix at this entire movie. The moment where he's blinded and he sees only light is one of my favorite moments. Because to me I was like, oh, that represents a lot of concepts kind of landing. But then they didn't re-explore those concepts. They were like, okay, tease, tease. We're going to go over here and fight some more.

Like I just, I got a taste of where I wanted the movie to go. And I'm really hoping for is where we can take this franchise. Yeah, me too. And that's the question is, can they, can they do that? Will they do that? And the question is for you guys is, when in the world are you guys going to get butcher box if you haven't done it already? Butcher box is delicious.

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Free bacon for life and $100 off. That's butcherbox.com slash big thing. Putcherbox.com slash big thing. Okay. So there were a few things that did land for me. What about those folks looking at my phone for the notes. I'm not texting. So I did like that there's a commentary on the oblivion of being,

which there's a few philosophers who say that the entire history of the Western world is based on the oblivion of being concept, which is basically that we, we are waiting for someone more powerful than us to solve all of humanity's problems. Like every religion, every concept, we're always like, someone else's going to fix it. Even if you're agnostic, like, government. Like, there's always like, Superman. Yeah, Superman. We're always like, go over there.

Like, someone's going to solve this for us. And I like that they made the source just another system of power. So that even when he got to the source, it was like, that wasn't enough. So there's kind of this almost nihilistic version of don't let someone else solve your problems because it might not solve. And that's why I think Morpheus is so defeated because Morpheus is like, I've put all, of my belief in this thing. Oh, no, it didn't work. And even Neo has to accept a certain level of, like, defeat in order to go further.

But that's what I liked about the, the, about the naobi scene. Yeah. When she says, when she goes, the Oracle told me, you know, that he was going to make a choice. And, and whatever it was, he's, he's, I thought you don't believe in the one. She's like, I don't. She's like, I believe in him. Yes. It's great scene.

Yeah. Because that is like, yeah, no, I don't, the philosophies and the ideas, I believe in the individual at this point. Yeah. believe in what this person has done. I believe in the belief. I believe in his drive. So that's why I'm giving you my ship. Because all, I think the biggest commentary in the third film is that all systems, because the matrix is about systems. That's one of the things, like the word matrix is a system of systems. I think the thing it lands best is that all systems when they grow too too powerful overwhelm their original goal. Right. So Zion didn't get the chance to become powerful

enough to solve the thing because it became too powerful. Smith became too powerful. The Matrix couldn't handle it. The Matrix had to go to Neo because it wasn't. So I like the idea of the absolute power corrupting absolutely, but even in systems, because we see that even like, in my opinion, like the Americas as we are, like we've gotten so big, we don't know how to talk to each other. Like, there's a duality in a lot of things where it's like we need to solve these problems, but the systems are too big. So it's a really interesting commentary on how we don't let other people believe because we believe our beliefs so much stronger. Right. It's true. And the whole movie does a really good job balancing that, but then it doesn't give those scenes enough time to breathe because it's hurrying to be an

action movie. That might be the suits thing we talked about. Like, with Warner Brothers or whoever was trying to steer the ship, I think maybe they were like, ooh, too much philosophy. Let's go to this instead. And I'm worried about it. And it also depends. And what's very possible, too, is that the Wachowski's could have gotten too big inside of their heads.

You know, sometimes what happens with creators, and it's a lot of different creators this happens to is that while the first one worked, I know, we know what we're doing. Right. And then they're trying to do even bigger. Let them do whatever they want, which is certainly what also could have happened.

We talk about how maybe there were too many cooks in the kitchen. Maybe there weren't enough cooks in the kitchen. Yeah. To rein something's in. Could have also been in. Could have also been in. You know, like, look at the, like, the prequels, as much as I have found a new respect for them, there's a lot in there that somebody could have not been a yes man to George Lucas

and said, hey, we need better dialogue. Right. Hey, we need this. We need that. And the essence of the story is there, but let's not make Anakin a 10-year-old kid. Right. Let's start him out. Like, because his friends did tell him that.

Yeah. But he didn't listen to that point, point of it. And maybe that is exactly what happened with the Wachowski's. I don't know. And very similar to what happened in general, as I said, there's this appreciation for the prequels now for me because of Clone Wars, because of these other things,

these other movies, these other things that have been built up. It could be very much the same with this. But jumping back to Nairobi real quick, I thought Jada Pinkett Smith was fantastic in both of these movies. I'm not necessarily a massive fan of hers, but I think she's really, really good in these two movies.

I don't know a lot of her other work because I don't like, I don't pursue her work often. But in this, I feel like no one else could have. done it that well. Like she's such this character. And it also, the irony of Will Smith, almost being Neo, like that definitely reflects. I love the Jada Pinkett and like this. Right, right.

I thought about that as well. Yeah. But I love for me that we get a character that is so strong. You don't want to do the movie? Fine. We're going to put your wife in it. And she's going to be the highlight of two movies. She really is. But I love it. This movie for sure. Oh, 100%. Neal disappears for like 45 minutes. And then when he comes back, he's very lesser because they need it for the story. Right. And his eyes are gone at that point. He's not, he's not

the Neo that we've seen. he's he's kind of like a damaged neo right afterwards too and it's like you know there's a little bit more of the kind of on the nose messiah stuff with the with you know it can't see you know I can see but I see a very different way now like all that and it's Trinity it goes back this is the stuff that I did like about it the trust the love the idea that she just says if you tell like that's the whole point of love is right it's built on trust right and she says if you tell me that it's good which is one of my favorite scenes by the way when he goes go up into the sky she listens She never questions him ever.

And she goes up and we actually see for the first time ever the actual sky in this world. It's beautiful. And she says it. She says beautiful. And then when they die back down and you see, if you freeze frame it enough, you see, you see when she takes the bars. Yeah. And she's and it's over. And you're like, oh, could she survive?

Oh, no, she can't survive. She's at 75 different things. She's covered in. Yeah. That's my question. How the fuck does she survive? Neo, we know. They clone her?

Is that what we think? I don't know, but I think she's a, I don't know, but I think she might be a program to, to, to convince Neo. I think the machines might need Neo to believe he's the one again. My big theory right now is that they've reprogrammed Neo through time to not believe he's the one

and something happens where the Matrix itself needs Neo to believe again. So they use familiar figures like programs of Trinity to convince him to come back to the fold. You don't think it looks like that they're setting her up to be the one? I think that is how things might end up.

But I think in the beginning they're trying to get Neo to wake up. But she's going to be the one as a program. Yeah. Okay. As a program? I think I think the program is able to take control. And I think it's going to be interesting how to be. But you see her, but you see her get unplugged.

You also see her digitally for a moment. For a second, but you see her actually plugged in as a human. You see her in the tube. Yeah. So like is. She thinks that's a program. I think that might be a, uh, I think that might be something to convince Neo. Like maybe he's watching that happen. Hmm. I don't know. I think Trinity's going to be the one at the end. I just don't know how it's going to get there. And it's awesome. Yeah. It's funny because we were talking about, I don't know where the hell we were talking about this on some, I think it wasn't a big thing. But I was like, you know, in, in today's, no matter what it is, you know, no matter if you have a woman in role, someone, someone screams,

oh, that's woke. You don't hear, you don't hear that for this because Trinity's such a badass. She's been badass. And she's always been a badass. 20 years of awesome. So if she is the one, no one's going to say, shit. Dodge this is what you say to that. The question is, though, here's the, here is the question. It doesn't matter if it's a man or a woman. She's like 55 years old now, whatever she is. What's this to the franchise? Well, no, no, not that. Even if she, she could, she could do these movies for a while depending on, I mean, look, shit, Harrison Ford's still doing Indiana Indiana Jones. That's not my concern.

My question is, not even concern is, I hurt my back parallel parking not too long ago. No, that's what I'm not 55. I'm worried about those stunts for her. Is she doing those big moves because she was doing a lot of that stuff? When I'm watching some of this stuff that she's doing in the third one, I'm like, I don't want her to do that. That's my concern of 55. I'm concerned of the safety of carrying. She might be, she might be older than that.

I don't know. I'm not sure. Let me see. I'm going type in how old she is. And like it's. Because Keanu stayed for 40 years. years doing these stunts and I imagine Carrie Ann hasn't just because like why would she like in Jessica Jones she's not doing gunfight she's 54 so she's 54 years old it's a substantial like

stunt age it it's still it's like physically she's going to be able to do this role a hundred times over the question is like how how much how much because the one is different than Trinity as far as totally totally and she very well could do it and that's why I think yaya such a great choice for morphius because then you could go that direction with him for a long time like I'm so curious how they're going to play this because like Morpheus like do they clone these people? I'm wondering because like cloning is always that like tricky line of like believability for some reason like human beings. Maybe it's our apprehension to cloning where we're like, oh, like that storyline like you Star Wars Spider-Man like clones are always a thing.

But this this allows for programming and reboots and restarts. But if we do the thing, kind of like you were asking me with Reloaded, if every one was Keanu, that's kind of like determinism. So if if Carrie Ann can just come back and she died, what does that mean about our ability in the Matrix? Well, she plays, she's playing the Mr. Anderson role so far that we've seen in the trailer. Like he's the one that's kind of seeking her out. Because it looks like he's going to be the one kind of waking up and figuring everything out because he, because he remembers all. I think we see scenes from the first three matrices to explain what he's.

Well, we know that. We see it in the trailer. Yeah. He's watching like a movie or something. So I think we see that. And that's why I'm wondering if we see that with Carrie Ann in the, in the tube. Because we see so much of them. Because we've never seen her in that in the other movie.

No. And it's like, because it plays into this particular movie and how this movie plays out is that there's tons of his eye on stuff. And like, when the Bain stuff was over after he, I didn't mind the imagery of when he finally can see it. Like there's a reason. I don't know. I still didn't really understand all the way through how he's able to have these powers in the real world. Like in a- Kianu or Bain? Yeah. I think it was just the assumption of like his mind believes to such a level he can do it. Right. But that's, but that's, you know, not. Same belief is the second one. But right. There's no, there's no conclusion of, of, of, of, in fact,

if you want to say Mary Sue stuff. It is. But it's like, Gary Sue a lot in the third one. But the question is just like, it's like why.

Why is he able to control the sentinels outside? The same reason that the anti-crise is able to transfer his machine consciousness into a human body. Like all that, like that was harder for me to accept, right? And the other question then ties into what I hope they don't do.

I hope the neo nips, the Smith shit in the bud real quick. because I don't want that to start. Oh, now Smith's going to start transferring himself over into the real world again. I'm going to start to. I don't think they will. I'm going to start to check out if they do. Agreed.

Yeah, I need. We can't have the same story again. They're already treading that line by having so much of the first three and the fourth when it seems. You can't also have the same plot. No. For a second, Smith starts replicating, we're out.

It's okay to kind of replicate beats to set up. This feels familiar. Hence, deja vu. First act. Of why he's like, okay, I got to get through this. And this is Smith. Okay, that's Smith, that's Tren, that's Morpheus. I got it.

Oh, I still remember Kung Fu. I'm in it. What's my mission now? I don't think we've had a new movie of this scale. We've known this little about. Yeah. Because I think of the last time we've, like, we're having a conversation with very little facts and very little leaks. And it's a huge movie.

Right. I have no idea what this movie is. But this is why I think a rewatch of these, this entire series is perfect because it is like, I'm, I am actually surprised. I'm not surprised that you like it less. I am surprised that I like it more. I'm also surprised that Kate liked two and three it seemed a little bit more than one. No, she didn't like it more than one.

That's not what she said. She liked three more than two. She liked three more than two. She's out of those two. One was the one she liked the most. But I am not surprised that she liked three as the first watch. A lot of people watch it that we've known throughout before. Rewinded about a year ago or two years ago when you didn't really know anything if this movie was even coming.

Sure. And you showed that to her. She would probably be like, okay. Action movie. but she knows that there's something coming now. Yeah. And she knows by when she said, because you,

and it's significant when you watch the end of that movie. If you watch that move, the end of that movie in 2003, you go, you leave the theater and you go, I felt so hollow. Yeah. I felt so let down by the ambivalence of nothing.

But I watched the end of it today. And it's a sunrise. It's, now it's a sunrise that actually counts for the new day. Because when, before it was a sunrise into a day that we didn't get to live. 100% because we say, well, Neo come back.

I know the answer of that question. Right. I didn't know that in 2000. And now I care more about Sati and her views because I know I get more of her to give us context. And Canna Reeves, people laugh, not laugh, but make the joke about John Wick being in The Matrix now. John Wick is going to help this movie tremendously. Because there's an impact. There's a cultural impact.

Because of what he has, Cana Reeves is that type of an actor that is very rare. Is he the best actor in the world? No. But he's extremely likable. Yeah. he's a phenomenal action actor, right? He's a very likable actor, so you always want to watch him

because if he's a couple of goofy lines and it doesn't really sell it, who cares? He's so captivating. He's very captivating. And the thing is, he always has these resurgence and these things that he's able to do because he'll go,

classic movie that everyone's going to remember whether it's point break or whatever it is to dud, dud, dud, dud, dud, dud, dud speed. Right. Dud, dud, dud, dud, dud, dud, dud, dud, dud. Bill and Ted III. Bill and Ted III. Somehow brings back.

it is. John Wick. Yeah. And now the John Wick is the one because John Wick, very similar to what we were just talking about, where he just answered the question if a 50-year-old person, whether man or a woman, can do it. Yeah. He's been doing it. I think it's because he hasn't stopped. And that's the only, that's my only thing with Carrie Ann is my concern that she's done a lot of great dramatic stuff. She's great and Jessica Jones and things.

Oh, I didn't realize she was in. I never saw the series. Okay. So she's one of the leads. So, but there's no need for Carrie Ann to be at a gun range every other year. There's no need for her to being doing stuff. Right. He's still in it. He hasn't. it's anytime your body starts, you know, atrophying you want to stay instead of like re-learning it. Right. I just don't want Carrie Ann to get hurt because she hasn't needed to.

Well, I mean, you remember this movie shot. So she didn't get her. So she's good now. But if she's the new one, I just order to be okay. I just love her. But either way,

man, like this is, uh, it does set, it's weird how I'm much, I thought I was going to go into this movie and be like this is going to be the last Jedi for me. Yeah.

It was not. What's your Sophie's choice between Spidey and Matrix right now? Uh, probably Matrix. Yeah. Yeah. It's, It's not, I mean, it's funny.

At this point, when this comes out, we have reviews up for both of them. Yeah, we've seen everything. So people could go back and go, well, guess what? Asshole, you love, you love Spider-Man way more than you like the Matrix. Because I want us about the accountable. I'm saying it now that at the time that we taped this. Not that I don't want to see Spider-Man, I'm very excited for it, how they're going to play it, like, multi-verses and parallel universes, that's my shit. I love that.

And the fact of, like, how they're going to work with Toby and Andrew and how they're going to make that all work. And when that finally happens to be in a theater to watch it, like, I'm very excited for that. But the idea. idea of this kind of revolutionary franchise getting a jolt of energy with the possibility that if it's handled the right way could jumpstart a five and a six, I'm all for it. Yeah. And we're both TV guys. I want HBO Max to make a Matrix. I would love that. I would love to see the Animatrix and both live action and animation handled on TV. But we could we could also be very depressed. We can be very dark when we talk about this next week on camera. And it's very possible too.

Like if they try to overcomplicate it. Yeah. If they go back to basics and back to the Matrix, which it seems like we're doing with hence the deja vu and hence all that stuff, I think we're in good shape. But this one, this movie, any other year, have been most anticipated.

I love the fact that we've got two movies that any year be my number one. Two movies back to back. It's crazy. Right. Week to week. Within five days. Between this, Dune. Yeah.

Eternals. Yeah. Some good ones. We've had a really good year. Fictional. All things consider. Yeah. And like, especially since it got compacted to where we had to release everything in four months. Totally. And then next year, you know, it was gangbusters with everything we have that's kind of rolled over.

I think, I think arts in good hands right now. Yeah. I just hope that we're, especially in the geeky side because he got, even, at this point, I think, I don't remember when Boba Fitt. Bobafette's either coming out today or next week. And Hawkeye will be rapping this week. Hawkeye, yeah. Which is awesome. So, yeah, I'm, I'm getting more on board with Hawkeye. Like, I'm one and two worried me, man. Three got me hard. Three. Three, I like a lot. Three elects lie. Again, at this point, I think we're like five or whatever it might be. I think it's wrapping as we did. Okay, either way. So much, though, we're going to be wrapping up this series here. But I think is there, what's the major stuff that we mean, we hit on the Bain stuff where he comes in.

They had that scene, whatever. There's, there's a lot of systems corrupting, a binary thought. The sedinals are all over the place. The idea that they set up that thing from that short nanometrics that there were these like, what, 250,000 or 500,000 or 500, that were attacking. Yeah, one to every person that's just like a machine would think. I love that line. And bringing in that kid who from the Animatrix is ultimately the one who says the war is over, the war is over.

There's that. There's the idea of Link and Z who have there that. I love that scene when he shows up. She's like, I believed in it the whole time. I knew you'd return. And she was great. What happened to her? Is she in stuff?

That actress? No, that's good question. She was fantastic. Consistently too. What the hell happened to her? She was great. She might have been in stuff and I just don't know. Yeah, we just, it was what, 18 years ago?

Crazy. I also, I really like that they leaned hard. into the counterculture in three, like the goth club that the Marevangians running. And like you see a lot of the Wachowski's getting to go like, hey, let's bring this to the forefront.

Yeah, like we get to have some weird outside of stuff. And then Zion to me felt really beautifully fleshed out in this one where when, like the moment where you were talking about where he comes back and says the war's over, when he runs into that space, it did feel like a colony close

to the center of the earth to keep humans warm. Like I felt for the humanity that thrived underground in this movie a little bit more. Yeah, I think so. And that's why I, I mean, to be clear of the Matrix the first one did this you gotta have the real world in it and we see it

we see the real world like the i mean even like neo at one point he's he's he's who's he talking to though right like who is it morphia's is it are like who are the people who are is it is it are the people that are running it right now what is Zion like what is the threat will we see Zion and for it i wonder what's the threat and like what is it what is it so 2199 is when they estimate the first one was, when is four. Right. Well, it's clearly, I mean, it's clearly it's got to be. They've aged 20 years. Yeah, because, and, and maybe even more so. Right. Because, because, Naomi was early 30s. Yeah. Like she's not, I'm assuming Sati is Satis, so which would mean like her aging. Well, well, but she's a program. She's a program. She's a program. She's a program. It doesn't matter there. Doesn't mean. And yeah, yeah, is the big

curveball. Right. Right. So I think that for it's, I think it's significantly more like, yeah, how, they can explain it. It's so, and I'm all for it. That's why it's a little overspitey for me because I, I know Spider-Man is my guy and I can predict enough of that. But right now I'm like, how does Trinity work? How does Neal work? Right. Morpheus work. And that feels so beautifully fresh for what we do for a living. We don't get to go in a movie's like this. It's going to suck. It's going to hurt. It's going to hurt way more if this doesn't succeed than something being mediocre in a mediocre in a, then we're going to be like that's, we're going to look at each other and go, that was the explanation. It's going to hurt. It's going to hurt way more if this doesn't succeed than something being mediocre in a mediocre in a mediocre. true way um all right listen i know a lot of this was it was the tying into a movie that at this point we've both seen from from from your point of view but we were excited yes from your point of view but this is also show you on the on the on the on the now i probably will drop this on the 23rd or 24th so if it is christmas eve enjoy your christmas eve if it's the 23rd enjoy the next two days either way ladies and gentlemen i hope you're having a great holiday break i hope that you are enjoying this channel please make sure that you subscribe to this channel if you haven't done

already. Please check out Coy Jandrio on his channel. He's got a great, he's doing a lot of great stuff over there. Check him out on Twitter. All that stuff, everybody. Enjoy it. And we're going to see, I mean, I'm still dropping shit on this channel, but we're approaching the new year. It's 2022. It's coming up right around the corner. Thank you guys so very much for joining us here today. This has been The Matrix. Rewatch. Our next rewatch series will most likely either be scream than leading into Batman, I think. But I know we're doing Batman. Yeah, I cannot wait. But all right, listen, thank you, Coy. Thank you. everybody. Thank you, K. Mulligan.

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