The Kristian Harloff Show - Spider-Man: Across The Spider-Verse SPOILERS DISCUSSION

Episode Date: June 6, 2023

Join the website! http://www.thekristianharloff.com Spider-Man across the universe is the sequel to the Oscar winning Spider-Man into the spider verse. Miles morales and Gwen, Stacy reunite to try to save the world. Kristian harloff, Winston A. Marshall and Coy Jandreau give their spoiler heavy thoughts on the highly successful Film. #Marvel #sony #spiderman  EXPRESSVPN http://www.ExpressVPN.com/thing. Don't forget to use my link so you can get three extra months free. That's E-X-P-R-E-S-S-V-P-N dot com slash thing. ExpressVPN.com/thing to learn more. ATHLETIC GREENS:  http://www.drinkag1.com/bigthing OUR MERCH STORE IS LIVE: https://www.teepublic.com/stores/the-big-thing-kh-channel?ref_id=27393 FOLLOW KRISTIAN + FIND HIM ON CAMEO https://cameo.com/kristianharloff https://twitter.com/kristianharloff https://facebook.com/harloff https://instagram.com/kristianharloff AMAZON WISHLIST: https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/1KPH42T0TP0PG?ref=cm_sw_em_r_un_un_djbxgIW5ZQMMg SCHMOEDOWN ARCHIVE CHANNEL: https://www.youtube.com/c/TheMovieTriviaSchmoedownArchives Ask Kristian questions for next time! https://facebook.com/harloff Become a Patreon of the Schmoedown: http://patreon.com/schmoedown OTHER GREAT CONTENT: REVIEWS https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLSJdE28YyUT368qY7sfE0nKE4c04CqGvu TV REVIEWS https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLSJdE28YyUT1LU-t2Z9AD5UJDiWW4pS_E STAR WARS SHOW https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLSJdE28YyUT0XmfpbblkF9PY7uO2qhbN6 THE BIG THING PODCAST https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLSJdE28YyUT3KAwbzDsv6mdR-gwUiydQg

Oh, back to do, back a see, back to do. Oh, wrong, wrong, wrong thing. What's up, everybody? Welcome back to this show. This show is the big thing show. And today, it's a capes and cows, big thing, spoiler-filled episode of Spider-Man across the spider-verse. If you have not seen this movie, then you are doing yourself a disservice by watching this episode because you will be spoiled. However, if you're just one of those people that like spoilers, well, at least we told you.

And that's why you're here. So we're going to be talking about this and a lot more in the world of Spider-Verst, where it goes, what we thought, how it was, did it move us, that and more. Subscribe to the channel. We need to get to that 100K I want. I'd love to do it by September. I'd like to do it by this year. And hopefully you guys help us do that.

You're going to be in New York? We'll get your butts over to New York Comedy Club on June 23rd. Look at that crew. It's me. It's Mark. It's double-ta. toasted Brett, Jen, Kate, we're all going to be there. Thechristianharloff.com.

You can also get live streaming tickets. All right, let's do it, everybody. Let's get into the full spoilers for this. I'm excited about it. So are you. So let's do it. I'm ready. You're ready.

Cool. Welcome back, one and all, to the big thing, special capes and cows episode. Myself, Winston A. Marshall. Got my, got my Miles hoodie. What up? And Coy, Gendro is here. Hell yeah. I said this on the episode on Friday.

There were so many different times, I was like, I need quite to be here to ask these questions because there's so many characters that popped up into this movie that I was like, that's got to be made up, who is that person? And I would see like an actual cover of a comic book. I'm like, maybe it was real. And then there's these other things.

Is there really, let me ask the most important question. Is there a spider horse? Yeah. There's also a spider India. I know so Spider-Man. India. Yeah. Somebody was like,

That's not real. I was like, yeah. There's also a spider T-Rex. There's a, that I remember. Yeah. How I remember that. I mean,

it's hard. It's an image. That's a hell of an image. I remember that. But the spider horse. I'm like, is that real? And then so who was the Nicholas Cage one in this?

So I was Andy Sandberg and that was Ben Riley. And he was playing Nicholas Cage. He was doing a Nicholas cage like, uh, Ben Riley is one of my favorite characters in all of comics. And that's what I dressed as in the premiere. Okay. And he is?

Oh, I love Ben, considering how convoluted that entire story is. That's why. anything about it. Okay, so the clone saga is a story where in Amazing Spider-Man 151 back in like 1973, uh, Spider-Man encounters a clone of himself and seemingly has to kill it and he throws it into a like a smokestack.

So it's like this moment of like, oh man, that was almost really bad. 20 years later, uh, in the 90s, basically the idea is that the Spider-Man we've loved this whole time was the clone, that the real one died. And that caused every fan to be like, no, no, no, that's some bull. Like, like we're not with the clone. But then the, the clone comes back as Ben Riley, who's this guy that's like blonde, he works at a coffee shop, he's younger. The reason I like him is I've always seen it as Peter Parker, to me,

is power and responsibility gone awry. Like he's too stressed. He's too responsible. He doesn't know how to live. So he uses comedy as like an outlet, like a laugh. Like a Guardians of the Galaxy, you laugh because you're like in so much pain. Like there's that.

So to me, Peter Parker is always like, I'm under a lot of stress. I'm always overworked responsibility. To me, Ben Riley is like him having a mental break and kind of externalizing a midlife crisis. And it's all there. It's like the blonde hair. It's working at a coffee shop.

It's being the younger guy. So I've always seen Ben Riley as like an existential crisis. for a man that has too much responsibility. So I wrote into it a story that wasn't actually in the comic that made me love the character. Did you know that he was going to be in it? Yeah, I was so excited. And the character himself is this like, I've got so much in my past. And so to me, that's this beautiful way to say like, guys, you got to take breaks.

Like even if you're responsible. And so Ben Riley, the way they showed him was really beautiful to me because it kind of tied into my own head canon of that representing a thing. And then talking with like, you know, the Phil Lord and Chris Miller about it, they have a similar perspective on all these different spider people. use in the web of what Peter Parker is. What about Daniel Kulululis guy? Because he was...

Oh, Spider-Punks, great. Hobie Brown, man. Yeah, he's in the comics. Well, yeah, he is. What threw me off about it is that at first, I'm so used to Kaluya doing an American accent. I thought it was Boyega. And I was like, go for Boyega.

Hell yeah. And then I saw it the credits. I was like, oh, that was Kulia. Man, I'm out here just confusing my Black Brits. That ain't, that's not cool at all. He crushed, man. He would, to me, I. I think he was my favorite character of the movie.

They took him away from us too fast. But I think, he had an impact. I love that they did that on purpose, though, because I think we'll probably, because was he in that last montage of people? Because it was all the old school.

No, because I think he's going to come in to save him. Okay. Because he was very relevant, obviously, to where he gave, he takes off. I love the whole thing of the anarchy stuff

and how he gives the baby props and all that. Sitting on the establishment. Yeah. As I said in the thing, I think this movie, there's definitely laughs, as we just mentioned, a whole bunch of them, but we definitely lost some of the laughs that we did in the first one because, as you said, and you said as well, too, this kind of has that empire strikes back type of feel and it's supposed to be a little darker at points. So they had to tone it down just a little bit and show the seriousness side of what this movie could ultimately be. But his lines, the punk, he was hilarious. And even when he takes off and leaves at the end, but he comes back without coming back by giving. giving her the watch, like giving the setup.

Like, he had a lot of the really funny lines throughout it, but still, but with, but staying serious. You know what, you know what he actually felt like to me? He felt exactly like what Mbaku did for me in the first Black Panther. So this idea where he comes in at first and you're like, this guy. And then by the end of it, you were like, actually, love this guy. You just are a man that stands by your principles and you're actually great. And you've become like this, this awesome kind of advisor to the actual main character.

He had one of my favorite lines in the whole. movie, which is when they're in Umbattin and the castle is singing because of spot. And he goes, oh my God, what is that? A metaphor for capitalism. And I was like, ah! Like, what a good lot. That was good, too. And also, but even when he's in the elevator and he takes his mask off

and then Miles says to me, he goes, how are you cooler when you take your mask off? Yeah. I mean, that whole thing, that whole setup of how that worked out. And like, there were, I mean, even when I'm thinking about it, but there were a lot of funny lines even when he's like, what do you mean? You toothbrush there? You sleep over there? Yeah. Like, it's that relationship that

Miles does have with Gwen. And I love the way that they actually opened it up. This entire, like, they, they opened it up with Gwen and Gwen's story. Now, you guys probably, you probably know the first one inside and out. I've seen it twice. If you told me certain parts of it, oh, yeah. But like, when she came back, was her Peter already dead in the first one? Yes.

She was, right? Because it seemed like she went back. They had a lizard flashback. So they did. Do you remember the scene where Miles is freaking out because of his uncle? dying and they were all like, we've all been there. Mine was my bed. In his room. In his room.

Mine was my best friend. So that's why the continuity seemed off in the second one. It seemed like she came home from the multiverse and then that's what happened. The only slight continuity off a little bit, but they were kind of almost doing like a, here's a little bit of a flashback, is that at the very end of Spider-Verse, the mid-credit scene, It was the same spot of Miles on his bed. And then go ahead and be like, hey, Miles. Yeah.

And so the- But he's older now. Right. So the continuity off was he was the same age that he was in the first movie in that little mid-credit. Whereas when they redid it here, he's grown out. Grown. She even brings it up. She's like, you've grown.

Yeah. So that's the only continuity off. Sure. Well, so the continuity wasn't off when it came to the Peter Parker thing? Because it seemed like it did. Because in the first movie, he'd already died. Right. And then it seemed like she went back.

And then it happened. Oh. Right? Because she would have gone back and then kicked out by her. No, no, no, no, no. Because if I remember correct, because, again, in the first one, that's when all of the time travel stuff was messed up. The Peter Parker thing was already, he was already, when she got to die the first time. Well, it was the same thing here.

Remember, it was Peter didn't die in that vulture scene. That was just the scene that we got to let us know where we are in the. present. She was giving us that this is what happened to me, blah, blah, blah. Yeah, but she got kicked out of her house by her dad. Yeah, she got kicked out of her house by her dad after the whole Vulture scene. Oh, right, right, right, right. Lizard had died and then months of hunting down Spider Woman. That's what we're both

forgetting. The dad was hunting Spider Woman for all those months she was living there. The point that he kicked her out is after they finish on Vulture, he's like, you're under arrest and starts reading her rights and she's like, Dad, can you just be my dad for a minute? He just keeps going until then finally, like, looks to the other two ago.

Can I come with you, please? Right. So I guess, you know what I'm like. Seeing Peter was a flashback in that universe. My brain was just not connecting. I was like, no, it was fine. I just couldn't remember why. That was a flashback two months earlier.

So when she came back from all of it, that's, she was still in the midst of the dad huntinger. So yeah, okay. I guess. No, does that track? I guess so. What I will say is that as much as this thing could be confusing, they do a very good job. And I honestly, I don't want this to be a crap on. MCU episode, but I think

they handle the multiverse so much better than the MCU. As MCU is so confusing. You're like, who does what? That variance is the same. That one's different. That one's this. This is like as many people as there were in this. Because there's tons of Spider-Man that could have been like that is just overwhelming.

But they put them all in like an organization. Yeah. And it really worked that way. This did everything multiverse of madness should have. Yes. This did this. And not only that, but this is the spoiler talk. It did something I didn't think would which is bringing live action. So who was the Asian woman, by the way, when he goes...

From Venom. That was from Venom. That was the story. That was Ms. Kim. Miss Kim from the, yeah. Which is why it's like, this isn't weird to you. And it's like, no, it's not. I've seen Venom.

I've seen Venom one and two, but they've gone. And he grabs Venomized gum. The gum says venomized on it. Yeah, the spot. Well, that may, so, but that's, and that's exactly right, though. They, they put it together their universe really, really well where it all makes sense. And even like, the thing. the Donald Glover stuff.

Best came me on the history of cinema. That was amazing. Okay. Do you know why it's even more fantastic? I'm thinking you're going to tell me. I'm going to have to. Okay. So Donald Glover, his campaign for Donald for Spider-Man is part of how Miles Morales exists.

So Brian Michael Bendis credits Donald Glover as part of shaping Miles Morales in general in life existing. So Miles is in part because of Donald Glover. As a thank you years later, Spider-Man homecoming cast Donald Glover as Aaron Davis. He references his nephew being a kid. Yeah, I remember. That is, so he's playing the prowler in that movie. They don't get to set him up to play the prowler again until this movie where he is fully the prowler. So not only does this cameo give us a sequel to Spider-Man Homecoming giving us that, not only does it reference him looking knowingly at Miles knowing that's what he almost was, but in real life, Donald Glover made an album because of the internet, which is one of the first metamodonist art pieces that does what Lord and Miller do with their style of comedy.

So Lord and Miller are referencing metamodernism in a metamodernist film by casting him as a character. he's based off and he's playing his own uncle in canon while being in canon in the movie in four different ways. Breathe. It's amazing. Breathe. It's best game of all time. Breathe. It's beautiful. But it's true.

But look, it was really fun. It was fantastic. And I like that they didn't just do a one throwaway thing where he's just sitting in the cage. They bring him back again. Because what that gave me the acknowledgement of, it almost felt like they were directly like giving a little tip of the hat to Heath Ledger because it immediately made me think of the Joker in the prison. No, yeah, easily. Easily.

It's also he's Hobie Brown in the comics from Peter Parker's timeline. Prowler's Hobie Brown. Hobie Brown in this movie is Spider-Punk. He's Aaron Davis-Prellor in this movie, so it offers references the multiverse. And also by having him be the prowler as Aaron Davis, it's giving us a tease of the end where Miles Morales is also the prowler, because it's also a great metaphor for one decision losing the dad versus losing his uncle Aaron is what leads him to the dark side. So Donald playing the prowler foreshadows Miles being the prowler later as a duality of man moment.

What I liked about that entire thing at the very end, though, like the way that they played it at the end, like even where he comes back, what I liked, eventually you go always in the wrong universe, right? But the reason why I thought they did it really well was when it's so subtle. But when it shows up at first, it's like, oh, you change your hair. And the reason at first of all you think, like, oh, nothing's wrong with his hair is because he was hanging upside down and maybe his hair was like kind of whatever. And then his haircut. Yeah, but then as the conversation starts to go a little bit more into it, you're like, wait a minute, something's not right. right. And it was a great reveal. It was a great review. Because, because to be honest with you, this is where I think they were so brilliant.

There was just enough off. I felt like they gave the audience spider senses for that split-second. Because that has always been what the whole Peter tingled, that's always been what it has been described as. It's like, it's not that you know exactly what's happening, but something is off and you're pointing you in the direction of what's wrong. My favorite is the color use. Did you notice his hoodie? So in the original continuity In his universe Because he grabs a jacket off the floor In the new universe

So it's that universe's jacket In our universe he walks around upstairs With his dad's speech In a dark dark dark green Pretty much black jacket with a red hoodie That's his outfit he's red and black When he picks up the jacket To hide his spider suit

It's the colors of prowler He's got a purple hoodie with green So when he- You pick that up right away? Yeah I missed that When he walks into the light He's literally wearing prowler colors

Our Miles is dressed as prowler I was like oh And then that whole sequence is leading us to find out he's the prowler. Yeah, see, this is, but this is the benefit of having people like Lord and Miller clearly are like super fans like you. They're like me. It's beautiful. And like, this is why a lot of people will say, and I'm sorry, I know,

I know, I always bring it back to Star Wars. But like, but this is what, but this is what people always say, like, they push back on whether or not people who are running this stuff should be big fans of it. Like it does, it's not necessary. No, it's not necessary. Man, it helps. It does. Look at Fygie. Look at Lord.

Lord and Miller now, like, Lord and Miller have just proven, like, these guys are like Uber nerds about this stuff. Dude, Phil, Phil, Phil, Lord, I went to an early screening and afterward, Phil and Chris stayed for an hour and talk to everybody about stuff. But it was really, really wonderful to see the different types of conversations. He was talking to people about, like, just the movies talking about just Spider-Man. But then he and I got to have, like, the nerdy conversation, he clearly doesn't get to have. Because the excitement of those two guys going, like, the artist we brought in and he was able to teach them this. And we got this style. And one of my favorite things that Phil in particular told me that he loved was Rick Lee and Artie's style is really angular, the Spider-Man 29-9 artist that I love.

It's really angular. So they used this thing where they basically had his mapping around his face be slightly ahead of him. Do you notice that like his line work is like his cheekbones are out here and stuff? The idea behind that was was he's in the future so he's not fully written yet. Decisions that he makes, he's always a little ahead of himself. So he's literally visually not fully formed in the present. No, the Spider-Man 299. How his line, Miguel O'Hara.

Oh, okay. So his cheekbones and everything, because he's in the future, so it's not fully complete, because decisions can change the present. And the art style represented that, and they hired the comic artist to make that. I love that. I like Winston, we always knew, because we saw this trailer, and we thought they gave away a lot. Turns out, didn't really give away as much.

No, because, like, that scene where Miguel has him on the train, I thought that was a giveaway to the ending. It seemed like, you know, there was, okay, well, this guy clearly is going to be, the bad guy. He's not the bad guy. Jason Schwarzman is the bad guy. It's the bad guy. That's who that was. I was trying to figure out whose voice that was. And because for the longest, and that's sometimes where Vio can

get you because people have similar tone inflection. For a while, I was like, Ryan Reynolds is in this? Like, I was completely off. I'm out here thinking John Blankin in the movie. I think Ryan Reynolds in the movie. Another multiverse. You saw a different movie. Is shortsman also Canadian? Yeah. So there it is. I can use my Brits and I can use it. Shortsman's from here.

Oh, I thought he was. I thought he was. from the Coppola family. Really? He's part of the... Talia Shire's... Nicholas Cage is related to Shortsman? Yeah, that's fascinating.

He's Shire. He's a freaking Talia Shire's kid. Wow, blow on my mind, real time. The spot, though, I mean, you and I talked about the trailer. I didn't think it was too revealing. You thought at the time it was. At the time. At the time.

And then we thought the spot was going to be like a B-level villain, which I love that they made that, the commentary that led to his villainy. I thought the spot was one of the best. upgrade villains ever. Yeah, no, that was, that was, to, to, to essentially make the spot, does he ever get that powerful? He doesn't become like an OGOP, like he doesn't, well, but, but for them to essentially, because you told me that originally it was supposed to be Mr. Negative was that was the villain.

That's what I heard from, well, to essentially make the spot Mr. Negative and to fuse those characters together, I thought was pretty genius. Yeah, what, what I, what I heard was like the video game bringing him in was going to be, so Mr. Negative is this great character. I caught that. It was a super early rumor, super early rumor, but the rumor was since Mr. Negative did so well in the video game, they were going to try to incorporate the video game universe into the Spiderverse and they animated.

And I was like, that seems like an interesting idea. And then ironically, they do have the video game. Like my buddy Yuri is in this as, you know, the insomniac video game. So I do think there's going to be elements in the third film of bringing in more,

like, video game, insomniac plus live action, plus I think we get Tom Holland. I think they very consciously saved those things. And I think if they had done Mr. Negative and Stev, wouldn't have worked. because we would have been waiting for that. So I think the spot decision was better,

and then they made him a way better character. You got references of all three of the live action Spider-Man. You got reference to that kid and Dr. Strange. You got that reference right off the bat, and you saw that in the trailer. You saw Andrew Garfield in live action with the kind of whatever that little hologram, whatever the hell that was.

With Stacy after. And then you had, obviously, the Toby McGuire that they showed as well, too. So there were so many ways to throw it in. And that was someone had asked me, are there a lot of cameos in there that are just like, oh yeah, I know that thing? And I was like, yes, but it's relevant to the story

and the reasoning behind it. Like when you're going through that hall, you would see that stuff. Yeah. And so it makes sense in a way that they played that out. But I want to jump back to the beginning of it with Gwen in the way that they set the opening up and the relationship with their father

and how that played out. and then ultimately leading into, you know, this, this, that the, the vulture coming in and, and getting the hell out of there and then have that, that big, that moment in general, how that plays out in the introduction of, what's it, it's both Miguel and then what's the woman's, is it Spider Woman? Jessica Drew. Jessica Drew. Yeah, so Jessica Drew. And they bring her in, and then it's like a 15 minute opening or whatever, maybe 10 to 15, and then it's like, there's a really powerful opening that I thought worked really well. I completely, I completely agree that, like, at first I was like, wow, they're just jumping right into the movie. But then for you to essentially just realize that that was it, we're just, we, Miles is still our, because you told me some people are out here saying that he wasn't even that, like, people are, what I saw, like, I can't even, like, anybody, the complaint is going to, oh, it looks like Miles is going to be buried in his own movie.

He's not. He's like, it is his movie. Right. It just opens with Gwen showing, like, how this, and it's a great introduction to the team. The multiverse team. Right. Well, because what it feels like to me, because this is even,

correct me if I'm wrong, you've seen Empire a million times more than I have. It's the same thing that happens in Empire where like since Luke gets knocked out and is dealing with the Wampa, that like you focus on Han and Leah at first and on Hoth base and freaking out about him and all that kind of stuff.

In the beginning, yeah. I mean, in the beginning it's Han trying to find Luke. Right, right. But I'm saying to that point, all you're doing is you could make the, the clear argument in the same way that like Ray with the new one it's really about her, that the OG trilogy is about

Luke, it doesn't mean that those other characters don't get massive time to shine because it is an ensemble piece with a main focal point. It's the same thing. This is an ensemble piece with a main focal point in Miles. See, I think Miles is the main character. I think it is definitely an ensemble for sure. And I think that, you know,

the way that they brought Peter in with a baby, I thought worked really well too, and the fact that the baby has powers and the idea that he's taking around on adventures and stuff too, and he has a new purpose. It was hilarious. And Jake Johnson was hysterical. The stuff, the emotional stuff that I really liked,

they reminded me of kind of Creed, the first Creed, where Creed was, you know, that everybody talks about this moment in Creed when he's like, I just want to prove him not a mistake, right? It's ultimately that Miles is trying to figure out once Miguel goes in the reveal. You know, like this is a reveal of that he's really the big anomaly where he wasn't supposed to be bit by that spider.

Such a great reveal. Is that the origin of the comic? So what's so cool is they kind of made the way the comic publishing went, the canon, because the ultimate Spider-Man is Peter Parker until they bring in Miles Morales. But then the ultimate universe started imploding. It wasn't selling as well. Like in our life, ultimate comics weren't selling as well. So they were like, we don't need to keep printing these ultimate line, but we love Miles Morales.

Like Miles Morales is great. So the newest secret wars is literally a way to bring Miles Morales into our universe. They have an incursion event that ends the ultimate. universe by bringing in and crashing it into us to just basically bring Miles in. So an entire event comic is just because of how much they loved Miles. So instead of doing all of that, because that's way too much story to tell. And obviously they're doing Secret Wars later. They make it so the spider causes an anomaly and they bring in all the lore of Spiderverse and allow us to have him be a technically abstraction.

What do they call him an abnormality anomaly? Whichever word that is. But they were able to do that with this story in the same way the comics were able to do it over the long game with just that spider. So it's slightly different, but it's the same landing. Yeah, yeah. I mean, well, one, I love the fact that, and then they really drove at home with how much the animation styles

clash with each other from all the different spider people. Yeah. I don't think I noticed that the spider that bit him was so animatedly different in the first one than the rest of the universe, but you notice it this time when they're like, that spider's not from here. And then all of a sudden you go, oh, shit. On top of the fact that with the 42 on it,

I just thought that was spider number 42, that's a direct reference to that being Earth 42, which then doesn't have that spider. Is that spider the one that it was supposed to have bitten Peter Parker as well? It was supposed to bitten that universe is Peter Parker. Okay. And then Miles's universe is Peter Parker is Chris Pine, Blonde Spider-Man. He was supposed to stay alive because he saved Miles.

He died. So all of that, which is wild, but I think the thing that specifically drives it home for me, it's absolutely beautiful. It's a fun ride. The action's great. I think it's the two main themes you brought up the first one about being about this idea of being a mistake because everybody has that kind of mentality. Gwen is out here being like, Dad, I just tried to be like you to be a cop. Like, you know, and like apparently I'm a mistake.

Miles and this like whole thing of him being whatever the said mistake is, the mistakes that people make leading to bigger catastrophes. So the idea that, you know, Ben Parker dying originally, you know, was the mistake of Peter's hubris of essentially. just being like, whatever, dude, screw you, and the guy kills his uncle. It's how those mistakes actually make you who you are. And so they even, they start touching on that and specifically about like, nah, these canon events that are mistakes that hurt have to happen in order for life to go forward as it is. So this idea of playing with that and then just really playing with parentage, I'm sure as a, parent, you must have been eating this up because Gwen Stacy with her dad, Miles' relationship,

with both his parents, specifically his dad, but his parents, but also Uncle Aaron, and that kind of back and forth, his relationship with Peter and how he raised him to be the Spider-Man that he is. Miguel freaking out about like, well, I'm going to go be with my daughter, but how that imploded an entire universe. They really drove that home over and over again, and that's why I was so hooked in. And everybody's like, you said you cried like 50 times. I cried so much. This movie really got me. It was Gwen finally hugging her dad when he's like, I, quit the force and then finally like rectifying a little bit that was the moment for me but i had a really interesting thing where i cried so obviously with guardians i cried because of the

intentional emotional like through line to make you cry like that movie was like these are the things that'll make you cry i had a really interesting thing with this one where i cried over beauty in a way that i don't think i've done since like the movie's gorgeous like there were moments where there was animation that i was like this isn't an emotional crying i'm crying because i'm seeing something i've never seen like it emotionally brought things out of me it is beautiful the what they're able to do with the comic book. They did that in the first one and then they did it in the second one. It just feels

like a comic book coming to life but not but not in a way that it's like jarring like this is just a gimmick. It was like it just you just blend into the style. You know the added little thing I've wondered if either of you clocked it they started doing because they didn't do this in the first one. They started doing the little text boxes yeah. They sometimes did

in the meantime in the first one but in this one they put the little glossary footnotes like when you're reading they're like oh if you didn't read Spider-Man 9 That's where the lizard ended up stealing all of Manhattan. So, like, they started putting those of like, oh, in Earth 42, this is whatever. And I was like, oh, that was a really cool element. I think a lot of it was my inner child feeling validated. Like, there was a lot of, like, tears that came from me being like, look, they did the thing that I always dreamed of and they did it right.

And I was unprepared. After seeing how, I mean, this is about as comic blended, not in a way that it loses you, but it's like if you're, I can see if you're a massive comic book fan, you can see why this could potentially be your favorite Spider-R spider-M. I believe this is my favorite comic book movie. Yeah, but I can understand why. Because it's about as blended it is into comics. And especially if you've, it's like for me again with Star Wars, where I'm always hoping for like the novels and stuff to pay off in a way that I've been invested for so long and spending much time with certain novels and things.

I'm like, just show me my investment was worth something. Even if nobody else who's watching it understands, like, Nights or Republic. Show me like the certain things. But all your investment paid off in this movie. 30 years of loving a character was given a love letter that felt like it wasn't just for me, but it was like from people like me. Like it felt like a very justified shared love of something. That's why I love talking to Chris and Phil so much

is because it's such a love. Like it's not we're making a movie. It's like we did this because Spider-Man is us. Right. What's the antithesis of gaslighting? Yeah, right. Is it just validation? Is that all it is?

Aggressive validation. Because that's essentially what you're talking about. It's like like you said, you put all that time and energy into it. You would love nothing more than to feel validated by your love of something. And that's essentially what you're not. But it also, but making it relevant to a,

story that pays off to where you're also being, not just the fact that's like, oh, there's the things that I love. It's also with emotion, making sense and all that. And what I, the crazy part is like when he goes into, Miles goes into the universe at the end with, because he goes to the university we're supposed to be bitten.

Or Peter's supposed to be bitten. And the whole world is in a mess and not safe. And they also don't have ExpressVPN. ExpressVPN would keep you safe. But if you were safe, you like being safe, whether you got bit by a spider or not.

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I hope that I confused you again. Like I always do it. That was nice work. The tangent's always strong. I was unprepared for an express. Happy to hear. So what are we, overall,

we knew the ending I didn't, I'm not going to say I don't love the ending. It's not true. I really love the ending. But it does leave you going, huh, because it's clearly just, now go, wait, don't worry.

Wait until March. I think I knew, so I didn't mind. I honestly hope that it does not go the way of matrix reloaded in revolutions, but it literally felt the exact same way. And you could say the same thing about an Infinity War and Endgame. You ended it at literally an intermission break. Like they're independent movies for sure, but you just wrote it for essentially a six to nine month intermission break.

But clearly the movie is already done or almost done. Oh, it's happy close to them. Yeah, yeah. Sure. I felt very good about how it personally felt good about how it ended. I know some people didn't, but for me, it felt really interesting to go, hey, it's a cliffhanger, but it's not doing it in a way that's like challenging you. It's not like, aha.

Like it doesn't feel like, Infinity War didn't feel like an aha. It felt like, man, you've got to resonate on this. Well, I think that's the difference, right? I think that clearly Infinity War is a cliffhanger, but there's such a big epic buildup by the time you get to that moment and all these things looks like it could be the ending, and then it's not the ending. It's not even close to the ending.

That's why that cliffhanger's like, well, this one's just like, there's a big reveal. There's a big reveal, obviously, that Miles is to prowler and that he's going to need help and that Gwen has this great conversation with his parents, which was amazing, and their relationship in general and the fact that now they have to kind of team up to find him, there's things that they're setting up,

and that's why I could see why you guys would equated to Empire, for sure. But it just, there was something, it just, like, I don't know, maybe it wasn't as epic. See, for me Is this what epic is now? It's a little bit of the bully McGuire dance You look like your old white man trying to dab Like

Epic I never thought I'd see Christian Harloff cranked dead soldier boy And I just did You It felt It felt I mean for me it felt very Hot is gone

He is in boba's clutches He's gone off to the to the huts and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and we're going to go bail him out. That's exactly what it felt like because he's tied to the bag. You find out, you know, other miles is prowler and then you see the reveal of Gwen with all the original spider crew plus a couple homies like you're like okay.

Like it felt it felt like Luke got his hand. We're on the millennium falcons. Oh there's stakes. Oh, there's no doubt about it. I mean and it's so funny because I'm normally like my my thing is that I, it wasn't the formulaic thing that I usually have a problem with, which is, let's build up some character, let's build up some emotion. Then we need to spend a lot of money on a big, huge ending.

Yeah. Let's do it. And I didn't dislike the ending. I was just kind of like, oh, it's over. I think that's what it was. Not that it didn't have impact. Not that it wasn't the right ending. It was.

But it just, I sat there going, oh, it's over. And there's no post-credit scenes. There's just. Yeah, I noticed when Miles was right. running the signage. But even before he got to his room, the signage was different, like the billboards in the background.

I almost didn't, I got confused for a second because, and that's what I'm saying, they did a great job of making us feel like we had spider senses. When he's running by, remember in the first one,

we saw Coca-Cola versus like Cola Coke or something like that, right? When he's running by down Manhattan, it just says soda. Did you see what it says underneath? It's a drink or something like that? It's a generic brand. It says soda.

It's a generic. brand and I was like genius yeah and that makes you go like wait a second I didn't like all I did is I was just like yeah and I was like what the hell is that because they hold on it longer than normal so you have time to go like wait a sec and for me as soon as that started I had a thing where I was like oh no it's about to end oh And I didn't want it to end. So I think maybe that's why I like the ending more because I got the emotion of building those stakes up to where like, oh no. Whereas if you hadn't clocked that,

it might not feel like the buildup you wanted. Right. Well, you know what's funny is that it's a long movie. It's like, what, 2.30? But I think you said this. It doesn't feel long. No. It doesn't because I think that it like there's,

I, there was a movie recently. Maybe it was fast X or whatever it was. There was some movie that I saw that it was like, it was long and it just shouldn't have been as long. It wasn't as necessary to be long. There could have been things to cut out. I don't know what you cut out of this movie. It's so much.

I really don't. Like the detail is there and like every little thing that they put in there. And even I really like little moments that I enjoy like when Miles is trying to break out of the spider quarters and he, you know, he goes invisible and he's working a computer and to get himself to the next dimension. That was a really great scene. Like there's so many just really memorable scenes that if you start to use your mind and go, wait, what about that? Oh yeah, that was really great. That was really great. It's like that's always to me.

what quantifies like a really great movie is like can you remember the movie and then when you do and you start thinking about it you almost can piece each part

and why it's necessary and why it's necessary the spider society scene I think was could have gone horribly wrong yeah two scenes that could have gone really badly are the canon

scene which I'm so glad wasn't in the trailers I'm so glad there was no talk of canon because I made a great plot so the canon scene could have been very cheesy instead they did everything

I wanted multiversa and more and then the spider society scene could have felt like they're just doing Easter eggs But instead, it was all the spiders having plot-driven ways of attacking that narratively worked. And I love little details like my guy, Ben Riley, Scarlett Spider is like of the 90s and he's got those great lines. And he's very 2D.

He swings angularly. But all the 90s art is very angular. So when they had him swinging in at the very end, he's like changing his vectors. But then the 60s Spider-Man, that's like, I can do anything. He can only go straight and flat because that's what the animation would have allowed. So the canon of the animation style only being a singular vector versus the 90s being a multiple vector allowed that spider society scene to tell a narrative while being Easter eggs. Who's the Spider-Man when Gwen comes when she's looking for him and she goes back to his original world, the Spider-Man that's there like waiting and she just like chucks him to the side? Oh, I think that's Jack Wade.

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, what do you mean? There's a Spider-Man, when she comes back in, there's like a Spider-Man that's like on like doing patrol or whatever and she comes. comes in and she takes the, she takes the wrist thing, and she throws them through it and it disappears. I don't know which Spider-Man that way. I mean, not that I would have known. No, no, no, I know. I'm just trying to remember that scene,

because I vaguely remember what you're talking about, but for some reason it's not ringing a bell. It's fine. But it doesn't really matter. So it's probably someone that you would know. So when she first, you know, when she goes back before she runs into his parents, you know, and when she gets to the world.

Oh, I thought that was Riley? Because she, doesn't she dispatch? Oh, is that Riley? Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I know there's a scene with Jack Quaid and her, and that's the one like Jack Quaid Spider-Man. So that's the scene I thought you're talking about. But yeah, no, that's the Ben Riley, the guy in the hoodie that I love. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay, cool. Yeah, so I think that there's really, I mean, that's the majority of the stuff. And I love the scene, by the way, the whole barbecue scene and the stuff with his dad's parents and the cake stuff. His dad. When he's doing the stuff with the cake, though, when he's flying through and he's got it, I'm like, that cake's going to be a disaster. I love that. And then he opens up and it's a disaster. I'm not.

proud. That was that Lego Batman or Lego movie like humor right there where you open it up and the cake specifically I'm not proud. But there was also but even being able to relate that to he's trying to tell

his parents. He wants to tell his parents and he has this thing but then and then Gwen has this thing where she does tell her dad and it doesn't work out for her. She's like don't do it. Trust me. So like he's got he already had doubts and now he's got the girl that he that he's fallen for, tell him don't do it.

So it's like, and then when he finally does it, it's in a different universe. And it's like even at first, and I still didn't catch on right away when he told the mom. I was like, oh, maybe the mom doesn't really know a lot about Spider-Man, does she? Because you never really see it. I was like, oh, maybe the dad does. And I'm like, wait a minute, no.

But that was the other thing I was noticing. There is a very, and that's, again, the spider sense is going off. How many different times whenever one parent is there, the other one is almost always there. Right. The two exceptions I can think of out off the top of my head are in this movie when he's talking to his dad after the first spot fight. And he's like, well, maybe you should let your son just do whatever he wants instead of stopping. And the other one was when he was talking to his mom when she was just like, I'm going to let you go.

But like, you need to make sure that you stand up for yourself and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I was like, why is he having this full conversation with his mom? And his dad is nowhere to be found. I was like, oh, shit, his dad is dead. This is, again, another Spider Sense moment where I was. was just like they did such a good job of telling you everything without telling you anything until it was time. You know, so it was, wow. Yeah.

Two little things I got to remind me when you were talking. The Gwen Stacy Miles' upside down sequence is one of the most beautiful things I've ever seen in film. That whole relationship and the way they shot it and every moment of that is just so beautifully written. And I love that this was a metamodernist drama versus a metamonerous comedy because it allows you to be so sincere while in a very absurd. setting. Like the sincere irony and ironic sincerity is usually used for humor like a 21 Jump Street like cocaine bear. But instead they use true

sincerity in absurd circumstances to tell this really beautiful drama but that allows scenes like Gwen and Miles to be upside down as spider people talking mask off. And as kids and it's a 10 minute scene. It's long and it doesn't feel boring. It doesn't feel and you're just like breathing in this love.

Yeah. So that's again, I hate to do this all the time. In Lorien. Season three. When we had Katie in here, she's talking about, you know, they had this scene

in Mandalorian 3 where she's talking to all the Mandalarians and giving them that William Wallace speech and they chopped it to bits. And it was like that much of it left

where it could have been this longer conversation that instead of this incorrect philosophy of faster, stronger, more intense, instead of that,

it's like, no, let them marinade on the, looking out at the city upside down, let them have conversations, build on the relationship, build on the emotion. And that's in a two-hour, two-and-a-half-hour movie. Add it for another five minutes in a freaking television show. That's what's confusing. You had a full, what, 10-episode season and you

couldn't let that breathe? It's because of this, I think, again, I don't want to make this Star Wars show, but I think it's also this, in television, they think you have to go to that animated kind of faster, stronger, more intense, the George Lucas way of things. And it does not work for television. It's why Endor worked. It's genius. It marinated. And week to week, episode

to episode, you wanted to go, okay, I need to catch up on my breath because of tension, not because of action. The tension is what you need to recover from. But that scene that you're talking about is it could have been a quick scene upside down real quick and that's it, but they let it build

because people traditionally will think of an animated film and go animated films are like an hour and a half. That's it. That's what people have the patience for. Yeah. But it just goes to show you that if you put a good story together and develop characters right way, you can make it as long as you want because, like I said, I was watching this movie.

And the only reason I knew it was long is because I looked at my clock afterwards. And people had told me it was long, but it didn't feel long. I never felt like I was watching a really long movie. Right. No, I completely agree. And I think this is why I started having that conversation about this getting a Best Picture nomination. I think we've talked about some of the other themes about, you know, the parental child or protege mentor relationships. We talked about, you know, this idea of your mistakes can actually lead to stuff.

But I also think they really touch on this idea of the canon event. No, this is how it has to be. This is how it's always been. You just need to deal with it. Otherwise, everything's going to fall apart. And there were little nods to things. There's little Easter eggs. I'm not going to bring it up.

Some of them have a political tone to them. I don't want to get into that right now. But there is this moment, at least with that theme of like, Miles is the one that is not just going to stand still and like, this is a tradition, this is what it's supposed to be and whatever. He's the one that is the quote unquote major mistake, but he's also the evolution. If you notice, he takes on the entirety of the spider verse essentially by himself and his escape

and is able to pull it off and he wasn't even supposed to be there. So this idea that we can all. grow and evolve and that's actually how we become the best that we possibly can instead of just be like I am stuck where I'm at this is what it has to be. Well this is a question for both you guys and is this how the third one is going to because why

did the spider bite miles right and then this anomaly happens and then these other anomalies happen through miles and the universes don't crash upon themselves in the way that it did with Miguel because when Miguel Think TVA

so that's what the whole spider verse army squad is at this point the same way the TVA goes in and just starts pruning things. That's why they show up, get Da Vinci Vulture, lock him up, and send him back. It's there, it doesn't crash because they keep catching

these things before they get out of hand. But why did it crash? So it was crashing in the first one, and that's when the collider opened up, and that was causing a giant implosion, and that's why Miguel hates Miles the whole first act, because he's like, you caused this giant hole that started me having to do this. Like, he's

repairing all those holes. No, no, what I'm saying, is why didn't the universe implode when it bit him? No. So part one, yes, but the question is Miguel tells this whole story about how he went back to replace the Miguel that died. And

so he could have a family. And he did, but in doing so, that whole universe imploded. What he was implying with that, and that's why they were showing the sequences of him with the daughter, is that the longer those incursions go, it's just creating more and more things just unraveling. So you're, I guess what you're asking is, why is it that

because Miles has now been bitten, why hasn't his universe imploded yet? I think essentially kind of what's going on there is he was affecting too much at that point is kind of what they were getting at. I'm trying to remember what did he specifically do that unraveled the universe? He took over the body of the Miguel of his universe and was raising a daughter as his own and was trying to save everyone. But there was already, my head canon for that is in that universe there was already another Spider-Man. and it was our Peter B. Parker, because remember he's like, you were there? In my head canon, once Peter Parker dies, that universe still needs a Spider-Man. So Spider-Man is just Spider-Man.

So Miles doesn't cause as much change because he's doing what Spider-Man would be doing. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, but I just don't understand why it would implode in one place. Because in that universe, there would be two Spider-Man. There'd be a Spider-Man 29-9 and a Peter Parker Spider-Spider-Man. Whereas in Miles's universe, once he's bit, the other Spider-Man dies, and then he just takes over doing whatever Spider-Man would have done. So it's like a, it's like a swap. Because Chris Pine's gone.

Had Chris Pine dies, had Chris Pine not died. Then it would have imploded like 299. That's what I was thinking. But that actually makes it. It's not that Miguel went to a Peter universe. He went to a Miguel universe, but that Spider-Man was supposed to be dead. Yes, because then it would have been Peter. You needed a spider.

I see what you're saying. You needed a Spider-Man in 1610 and the one that our Miles is from. Yeah. So he just filled in where Peter is gone, whereas there was not even supposed to to be one in that universe at all. Right. And then Miles's universe that's missing a Peter altogether is that's why it's still there and stable. Wait, there wasn't supposed to be one?

No, in Miles's universe, that was supposed to be Peter Parker. They got bit. But I'm saying like since there wasn't double Spider-Man, that universe didn't implode, it had no Spider-Man, which is by New York's on fire. I, what the universe you're asking about when Miguel tells the story of I went to a new one where I could go be with my daughter and then that universe imploded. That universe was not supposed to have a Spider-Man there. He went there.

He's not something he's saying. There was two Spider-Man there because remember Peter B. Parker was there. He said, remember, you were there. The universe that Miguel went to had two Spider-Men for a time. This is what I'm saying. Nobody really knows. No, no. The universe with Miguel taking over the body suddenly had two Spider-Man because Peter B.

No, no, no, no, because that universe is gone. Peter B. Parker went back to his universe and got with Mary Jane and had their kid. He went home. I'm saying the universe Miguel imploded was a universe where there was no more Spider-Man. man, that Miguel died. Right. And he went in and took over that dude's life. So that's why it fully unraveled because that anomaly had plenty of time to just completely

destroy that universe. That's why. But I thought that was a Peter Parker in Miguel's universe. In his original one? Yeah. Who knows? I need to rewatch it again. That's my point.

Nobody knows. That was like seven minutes of getting us back to the same neighborhood. Nobody knows what the hell is. So nobody really has a real. I mean, look, maybe that's an answer for you guys. Like, if you know why. Watch it again. Yeah, exactly.

to see it again. If you knew why Miguel, his whole universe imploded, but Miles didn't. And my initial thing was, maybe we'll learn in the third movie why that is. I don't know. Call your buddies up. When we go beyond the Spider-Verse. Yeah, I think that when that comes out in March, that'll be a nice amount of time to have a beautiful,

full-arcing story. And I really want to have those press conversations of like the journey of the three. For sure. And I think Spot surprised us all. I really didn't expect him to be that great. I like the way that he went from being. a bumbling moron to like trying to take an ATM machine. Yeah. And I love that line.

What do people call it an ATM machine? It literally says the machine is the M. And then that mirroring with Peter Parker, India, where he's like the shy tea, the redundancy. I love that. I love that Spider-Man hate redundancy. It's that. And I also love that they brought the attention to when Peter Parker says to Miguel, he's like, you're literally the only Spider-Man that doesn't have any humor.

Yeah. Which is true in the comics, too, which I loved. Yeah, yeah. So anything else that we're leaving out of this one? Spot, score. I think the score was amazing. The score was so good. I was pissed that because of the screening and when it was that I didn't get to go listen to the soundtrack.

The sound, not just the scoring. The soundtrack is insane. Yeah, it's really good. And it was produced by Metro Boom. And so it gave me the same vibes that when Kendrick produced the original Black Panther soundtrack, same thing where I'm just like, this is a fully comprehensive piece that's just going to be amazing to listen to over and over again. Yeah. I'm so glad Miguel wasn't.

the villain. I'm so glad they, he served exactly the purpose of having to make the trolley problem work. Like this whole movie's the trolley problem. Like you have to kill one person or kill all these people on the train and he's fighting for what he believes is right. Yeah. And not in a way that a villain does. It's in a way that he just, you know, it's like, we've all had that boss or anybody to just, not necessarily, not a bad person. Just like they have the, by the book way that they do things with no, no, no, mindset to say, no, no, it could be different. It's got to open up my mind a little bit more and do this. And I think that he's probably going to come around in the next one. But Oscar Isaac was great in that role. But that's it, man. That's the overall

spoiler episode for Across the Spider-Verse. What were you guys thoughts? Like any theories that you have? Where's it going to go? Did you like the ending? Did you love the ending? Did you think in general that this was, where do you stand on as far as the Spider-Man? Is it one of the best? I mean, I understand totally where these guys are coming from, but do you kind of run back more to the camp of the live action being the best, where do you stand? So make sure you let us know. And if you want to follow any of these characters, Winston, where can I find you? Find me, you see my name right there at the Swaggy Blurred. Come join me over on TikTok, Instagram, YouTube. I've been doing my Breakfast Am News series and a lot of other fun stuff.

You find me on TikTok, Instagram, and YouTube, Akoy Johnro, the tip of the iceberg of all the Spider-Man covering where you do it, including a video just on that Donald Glover cameo because I only gave like half of my madness and they understandably told me to calm down. Sorry, if I'd talk too much the episode of this movie tomorrow. All right. So anyway, guys, thank you so much. Really appreciate you. Hit that button. If you haven't done it already, you can find more episodes of the three of us. You find some more episodes with the rest of the crew and some interviews here and short form, long form, all of it. And then you can come see us at New York, June 23rd. Check it out, man. Thank you guys so much. We appreciate you. And we will see you on the flip side for myself, Coy and Winston. See you next time.