The Kristian Harloff Show - The Current State of Comic Book Movies with Special Guest JOHN ROCHA

Episode Date: September 1, 2023

Join the website here! http://www.thekristianharloff.com Comic Book Moves were in its prime from the start of Batman Begins up until Spider-Man No Way Home. Since then, there has been a rapid decline. Is it over? Or can it bounce back? Who has had the better run over the last few months? DC? Marvel? Will James Gunn fix DC? Will Feige drop some stuff of his plate and get Marvel back to its glory days? John Rocha joins Kristian Harloff on this episode of Big Thing Capes and Cowls edition. #mcu #marvel #dcu #dc #superman

What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to the Friday episode, Capes and Cowls. I might not have Winston and Coy. Who needs them today? I'm just kidding. I got the legend with me. That's right. John the Outlaw Roker is going to be joining me today.

We're going to be talking. I mean, this week that James Gunn thing happened with the comments on Tim Burton, again, another post that he made years ago that they bring up, and they're talking about that. There's other things I'm curious about John's opinion on. whether it's the box office that's happening now with superhero movies and other things that are happening. When are we going to see some of these?

Is the Marvel's going to be pushed back? We'll talk about that. All that and more. But really, as you saw from the thumbnail and the title, the question is, what's the state of comic book movies right now? I mean, there is always that age-old question of, is there comic book movie fatigue, right? But I think now is the most prominent time

where you can probably look and say, maybe because when you look at all of the when you look at all of the titles that have been Marvel's not in the shape they were years ago DCEU certainly went out with a fart and they still have one movie left what's happening with Aquaman so we'll talk about all this and more to be a long conversation

with me and John so if you're brand new to the channel we just hit 90,000 subscribers not too long ago so we're on the way to 100 we just need you guys to help us out so hit that button subscribe show a little will you and go to, you can go to T Public, the links in the description there. We've got a whole bunch of things going on. And that's it, man. So it's myself, it's John Roka, it's Capes and Cowles, Big Thing.

Let's do it, cool. Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen. Capes and Cowles, Big Thing. It's myself, Christian Harloff, here on YouTube's the Apple Podcast, Spotify Anywhere Podcasts are found. And I'm here joined by the one, the only host of the Hot Mike. He runs the John Roker channel. outlaw nation himself, John Rook.

Hello, everybody. How's it going? Good to have you, man. I'm glad you were able to make it because it was so, it's funny how we could just kind of find these things out we use, because you and I text each other often. Yeah, yeah. And I think we were talking about Asoka or whatnot. And then you were coming up here to, you were on the picket line. Yeah, yeah.

And I was like, well, hey man, you should come in if you're able to jump by the show. And lucky enough, you were able to make it. So welcome. Thank you, man. We've been trying to do this, you know, before the Dan one, we've been trying, we were trying to do it for a while. So I'd be able to. So I don't need Dan Merle here.

No, she's... The horseman no more. No, but it's good to have you. And as you said, like, what are the topics? And I said, you know, look, there's... Right now, especially with the strike, there's so many different things that, like, you... Yeah. You're like me.

What's funny is you, me, Dan, I think Greg Alba, a few other people, Mike Kalinowski, if you people feel the same way, me, you and Mike are all in the union. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I don't feel, I mean, I am 100% in support about everything that both the WGA and SAG are doing. I don't think SAG has been as clear to influencers and stuff and critics. There's kind of mixed messaging here and there and that's not a lot of information. And look, they got bigger fish to fry it. I understand that.

But there are a lot of people in our space that aren't talking about anything. Yeah, yeah. You decided like me that you're going to talk about it. Yeah, because, I mean, I'm an actor and I'm a SAG act. and for me, I look at it like I'm promoting the acting and the writing. And that's what I focus on. The acting, the writing, the director

when I'm reviewing, when I'm talking about stuff, when I'm getting into anything. And so that's my approach. And I, in no way, think anyone else is deciding not to do it, doesn't have a right to do it. You know, walk your own path. It's like masks.

You want to wear the mask, great. You don't want to wear the mask. Fine. Everyone should walk their own path and do their own thing and whatever they're comfortable with. Yeah. I want to uplift.

I've always been about uplifting the performances and actors and writers and directors and obviously being honest to my critique, but I like to do that. So for me, that's what I focus on on my channel now, is I'm covering this stuff, but I'm focusing a lot on the creatives,

even more than I usually do. Sure, and I think that one of the things that a lot of people don't realize because what they did when they wrote back to me, was that if you're a professional critic, and it doesn't fall, you're not crossing any lines. You're doing it that way.

And I think that, especially we're both in, I'm in BFCA, you're in the LA critics. Yeah, yeah, yeah, the HCA, yeah. HCA and so right and then both certify rotten tomatoes and all that and then so the argument that I've had not argument I shouldn't say but I agree with you I think that there are people that if you feel I don't want to even attempted then by all means I respect it but I think that one of the things that I had said to people was what they don't understand is because I've had a few people go well I'm not a professional critic so I can't talk about it was like if you're on my show and I'm paying you to be on the show and you're critiquing television or movies you're a paid critic yeah it's just you might not be paid by virile You might not be paid for, but you're a paid critic. And there's one thing if someone is sending you, like if Universal's like, John, we want you to cover Fast X for us. And here's a thousand dollars for the channel. Then you're doing something wrong.

Right. Because that's, but that's not what we're doing. No, no. I've never received money from the studios. And I'd be real hesitant to take any money from the studios. You know me. I'm an asshole. I like to, oh, can we can customer you.

I like to walk my own path and speak my own truth, whether people like it or not. Sometimes it's good. Sometimes I step up my own toes. and whatever, but taking money from a studio for me, for me, I would have to become something else or would have to be very clear to them that I will not be kissing the studio's ass or not, you know, that I'm going to be telling my truth.

But either way, you can't escape the difficulty. I had a campaign for Jurassic World 30th. And it was, we signed two weeks before the strike happened. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And again, to be to give us to add more than a lot of credit, But they said, anything that you have that was signed before the deal, you should honor. But yeah, for me, it was Jurassic Park, fan of the movie, fan of the thing. So I did go through it, but you can't do it afterwards.

You can. I mean, that's part of the, that's part of it. So that's what also influencers and difference from influencers and critics are. But nonetheless, you've been doing a lot of stuff. I mean, I tell you all the time, I still think, and this is, this is a compliment. Please don't take it as an insult. I think the hot mic's the best thing you've ever done. I think it's your best show.

And it's so it's, I think that there's a reason why you get almost like 1,500 people watching weekly, live. People are always looking at the stories that you guys are breaking. Can I break your balls just a little bit? Sure. You're afraid if you don't want it and you'll cut it out. But like, you know how much I love you. You and I have been friends for 20 somewhat years.

Sure. There was a story that came out about, it was a fantastic four. and one of those shit went down. Yeah. And I had posted, look, on the hot mic, Jeff Snyder posted Vanessa Kirby,

on the hot mic, make sure you check it out. And, blah, and broke it sends me a DM. He goes, you go, out of you wait,

not to mention me. I go, it's your show. You got to say my name, but it's your show. I'm pointing them back to hot mic. They're going to you. You're linked back to it.

You're linked back to it. But this thing I have to confront when I do this show with Jeff, because people don't know the history of it. Like, I came up with the show. Yeah. And I pitched the show back at Collider, like for me and Jeff at Collider, and they wanted to change it.

They wanted to put, no offense to Perry. They wanted to put Perry on it because they were really focusing on her, Perry and Jeff. And I was just, I was so when Jeff was in a place where he was worrying about what he was going to do for a job, because there was a period of time where he was being like, oh, from a number of things. He reached out to me and he's like, hey, man, anything. And so I pitched them. So we talked about it for six months. Oh, really? Yeah, before we put it together.

And in that six months, he got hired by all these people. Okay. Is that what kept? Kept pushing it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so when he got hired, so I was like, okay, okay. And then finally he texted me, he goes, okay, man, I want to do this show. I'm like, great, let's put it together.

So, you know, I pick out the topics. Jeff, you know, gives his two cents and proves whatever, but he brings the scoops. He brings the rumors and stuff like that. He's Bradley Cooper and the, what was the sniper movie? Yeah, yeah, right. He's the American sniper. It's great. Yeah, yeah.

I built the military. He just joined, yeah. But we do it together in terms of doing the show, and we have great chemistry, and I knew it would work because we're great East Coast guys who ball. You know this. You're a East Coast guy of ballbust. And so, and Jeff is great because Jeff is willing to be wrong. And he's willing to go to toe to toe with me.

And I'm willing to do the same thing. And I think that makes the show unique in airwaves. Absolutely it does. And I think that's what it is. Because you have a very, you've always had strong-headed, which is great, which is where you've been so successful. And it's, but when you don't have anyone to challenge you, it just becomes one thing. Yes.

It becomes a little boring. And it's, well, that, I don't know, for me. For me, I'm saying. For you, yeah. But I think that it's one-sided, right? So, like, if you get someone in there who doesn't have your point of view, they don't feel represented. Right. So, like, when you have someone like Jeff, who is not necessarily, and I don't, I'm not just talking about politically.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He will just go and he, what I love about him is even if he's, and tons of times I don't agree with Jeff. But he stands true to what his opinion is. He doesn't he's wrong. He'll sit here and have that conversation. Like, I thought your conversation on the whole thing was Sound of Freedom, Sound of Freedom was fantastic because it just represented two different, sides of, and he wasn't coming from the, you know, the radical side. He was just coming from the side of, look, I'm looking at this as a movie. And you're coming from someone who's been

really well-adversed and real red on the subject. So it's, yeah, it's a really good show. If you haven't to check it out, go to John Rokas channel. And on the channel shows that John put together, it's a hot mic, and you should go and check it out because it's a really, it's a great show. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I did see somebody that was funny the other day because I mentioned Jeff. And they're like, they go, don't, I don't listen to Snyder. Sniter doesn't like Marvel at all yet. He posted all the time because he's just looking for hits.

And I was like, he's a reporter. Yeah. That's what he's going to go for. It doesn't matter if he likes it. I mean, there's tons of people at CNN and Fox and whatever, too. They don't like a lot of the stuff that they have to report on, but they know it's going to get the views and they get a report on it. Can I talk to you about something?

Sure, go ahead. I'm sick of what's this puritanical approach to this whole thing that's been happening lately. Like, people have A world or in movie space? No, just a movie space. The tribalism that is going on in the movie space now is getting a little ridiculous, right? Well, fair. I guess I'm more in tune with it now that I have been

before. Certainly living in San Diego keeps me out of the old L.A. bubble there. But like the idea that these critics are sitting here and some of the people in our space are like, I'm a proud, I would never with an influencer, this kind of nonsense. You mean as far as a strike? Yeah, and just everything. It just

needs to stop. And people need to stop reaching for pitchforks and and torches and trust me, I know it's ironic that I'm the one saying that, but like it needs to stop. We have to create space a little bit more for people to kind of figure things out as they go along and if they want to have a mixture of criticism and influence

or they can do that. Like you just mentioned the thing with Jeff. Last week Jeff and I went toe to toe about this kind of stuff because he was saying that he got all this negative reaction for his bottoms tweet for the film Bottoms. And I said to him, Jeff, you're looking at it all wrong because it's like, they're all judging me as an old middle-aged guy.

I'm not even middle age, but shouldn't I be able to enjoy the movie? And I said, no, no, if they're reacting strongly, that's a positive. You know, if they're quote tweeting you and they're thousands, that means your opinion matters. They think your opinion matters. And so you should hold on to that and let them

cry about influencer critic or what is he or what is and not. Screw that. Just fucking walk your own path. And then, and I realize that. And I think after that and door tweet, that really changed my mind about so many things about how I approach this. And seeing how many people enjoy being controversial and getting

their points across, I think that's one of the reasons I like about Jeff, as you said, he stands his ground. He does. He'll tweet out and I think sometimes he's, there are people, you're right, like, they're like put the Dukes up before they even put the send button. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I just, that's not my thing. I've never been that way. I just, God bless you. You're, you're still looking for shit on Twitter. I'm old. But I still can do it. Shaking your fist on the porch. I can still get the ring.

But it's like, But a lot of those. I'm no Kalinowski, though. Oh, my God. He's hilarious on Twitter. I love Kalinowski. But what I will say, again, giving you credit, like I saw you kind of change your stance

a little bit on some things too, because you were going to bat for Rachel Ziegler for a little bit. Yeah, it was. And then you looked at that situation and said, well, maybe she's not approaching this the right way. Yeah, certainly the snow white. Watching those interviews, and I love Rachel, because, I mean, one, I think she's incredibly talented.

Be beautiful and see a Latin actress. And there's not a lot of Latino actresses that are getting a chance. And starting to rise in prominence. Yeah, exactly. And to lead franchises, you know? I mean, you could look at West Side Stories and Music, but look at all these other things that they're looking at her for, you know, the Shazam 2, and then what we've got coming up with Snow White.

I mean, that doesn't happen a lot for Latino actresses. But, I mean, the response is on the red carpet. And look, Gal Gadot should not get away with, without some of the blame here, too. They both were just, like, responding in such negative ways about it. And I get it. I'm a cisgender straight male. I totally get it. But there's a way to say it.

There's a way to do these things where it doesn't come across like you're being a shitty, snarky person and shitting on people's memories of an animated classic that they love. You know, there's no reason. You can't do your feminist take and not try to make fun of people

who like the original thing. That is still being passed on, by the way, generation to generation. It is. And I think the problem was, I also think to, maybe not the, defend her, but to say, you know, maybe I can understand that she wasn't thinking about it,

like, where she's going to have these conversations with friends. Yeah, right. She's going to be talking about it. Like, you know what, I'm doing this movie and it's going to be a different take of this and this. And look, she's, she's been in like three movies or something or two of us. And neither one of them is done well. Yeah. But she is rising and people are hiring her.

And it's a big, it's a really big. Yeah, she's got a Hunger Games movie coming. She's got a hundred games coming also. So she's probably, you know, she's having these conversations like, I get to do this and I get to do that and she gets the mic. She doesn't have the training. Yeah. That's the other thing is we have gone through a very different period now because of social media where the talent is not trained in media the way that they used to be.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because this. Yes. You can do this and you can sink a movie like that. Now she did it more so. I mean, because this movie's going to, it's going to have its struggles now. Oh, yeah. Big time.

This is, this is a case where I don't think the AD, old, any publicity is good publicity. I think this is bad publicity. And I think that she's, she's trying to kind of get herself out of the hole. But the other thing that I will say, people forget about things pretty fast. Yeah. And there'll be something else that people are, you know, getting upset about. You taught me that years ago. Yeah. My first controversy on Twitter, you said that. You were like, don't respond. Let it blow over. In three days, they'll forget about you, move on to the next thing. And that has always proven right. I've seen it happen

so many times. Yeah, it's also... Remember the AI issue with secret invasion? Who the fuck is talking about that now? Right. It was the show that they're pissed up in. It's a big thing. People, because people want things to scream about and the only... There are sometimes though that I wish that it would stick and there's other things I'm not want to get into a whole political conversation, but there's some

things sometimes that in the political world that people like, oh, we got to change this, we've got to change this. And then just look, it, happen again. And then we're mad for three days. And then they forget about it and then happen because they're going, oh, man, mad, I'm mad, and it's like, that's the type of stuff because it's, it's part of the same cycle. Yeah. It's like, because there's, it's like the cat on the string.

It's like there's a new thing to get either upset about or get happy about or a new viral video to watch. It's how we are today as a society. We've been conditioned to be. Right. So that's why I think, like, the one thing, though, people won't forget once the movie comes out, though. It'll circle back up again. But I guess it's relevant to the conversation of the James Gunstuff. Yeah.

So, you know, by the time this comes out, it might be a couple days old, but whatever. I had seen it and John walked in. I said, you see this thing that happened with James Gunn, and it's their old Facebook posts. Yeah, 12 years ago. Yeah, where he's talking about it. Because he's a comic book fanatic. It's one of the main reasons he got the gig. And he does not like the Tim Burton movies.

Yeah. And he said it as much. And the one that got me was the Batman Begins. Yeah. He doesn't think that's a good movie. No, he doesn't think that, yeah, the first. one. Yeah. So, you know, I don't think Tim Burton's going to be working with them anytime so, though, because I do think, though, even though, because this is still, this is, how many years,

is it 12 years ago? The tweets are 12 years and comments. Yeah, so what was that? It was 2009? 11. 11? Is that what it was? Oh, yeah, 2011. So 2011, so that was three years before Guardians or two years before he really shot Guardians. So, you know, he wasn't, he wasn't the James gun of today, but still. He still was getting gigs and he was still doing stuff. Maybe you don't do that in a public form, but social media also was different back then. Yeah.

He's an interesting cat because clearly, like you said, about me, I'm like he has, he's got strong opinions about what he likes and what he doesn't like. And those strong opinions have led him to create quite a number of really good movies that people like and enjoy. And so if you're going to go back and pick apart something he said 11, 12 years ago, I think you're just looking for something to. be upset about. And I've never seen anything like this where someone is

already trying to be undercut from the beginning before they actually issue a movie that gives you a general idea of what they're trying to do with their universe. It's mind blowing to see people jumping on top of him about this. And this is just more fuel to the fire, but

I don't think he's 100% wrong. And it's my opinion. It's a Tim Burton. It's a dated movie. It's a dated film. It is. The only good scenes are the scenes with him and Nicholson. Those are the only good scenes in the movie, in my opinion. And even Batman Begins is okay.

Oh, I'm going to disagree with that. Feel free. To me, Dark Knight is the jewel, is a crown. I agree. But Batman McGins is, fine, it's a good movie. It's just not something I go back to and watch all the time. Ellis just woke up in a dead sleep. That's all right.

For sure. Yeah, I... He also likes returning the Jedi, so please. Well, he and I got into conversations about this all the time, and it's funny, I actually have found... I loved Batman 89 when it came out because... Oh, sure, of course. But it was because of the event, right?

We remember, because it was like lines... Where were you at the time? You were in Washington? I was in... Yeah, I was in Virginia. Okay, so lines around the block. Oh, yeah. It was like the kind of event that doesn't really happen

in the same way like Star Wars happened. It was ET. Barbie. Compare Barbie to 1989. That's essentially what you got. But even Barbie is, you don't really get that now because you can reserve your seats. Oh, right.

You don't even get to stand in line. I'm talking about lines around the block for a while. And like that was, it was a very different. I remember the Batman shirts were everywhere. Yes. It was the thing. And Nicholson was the reason why people were talking about because he was the one thing that sold the movie.

He was Jack Nicholson and Keaton was a Mr. Mom at that time, right? So, you know, the movie itself, I remember, again, I don't like the second one. People love the second one. Batman Returns? Yeah, I think it's so. Oh my God. I don't like Batman Returns. That's way better than the first Batman.

I think it's too Tim Burtony. Oh, my God. it's way too Tim Burton. I think it's got the it's, it lost its style. It's more, it didn't lose its style. It became a Tim Burton movie. I think the first one is a good blend of Tim Burton and Batman.

You can't argue that the first, I mean the second movie, whether you love it or not, it's about as Tim Burton as you get. I think the Penguin side you can certainly sure. I think with a Catwoman though, I think it's much more mature than 1989. I do like the Catwoman aspect of there's things I like about it. I think it's terrible.

It's no Batman or Roma. But what is? Right. No shit. But no, the whole, but either way, pop culture, you can't argue what it did for it. But then we did a rewatch for it on this show for myself and listen.

Yeah, I remember you guys did that. Yeah, and I wound up really getting like a nostalgia kick for it and really enjoy watching it, the first one, the 89. And so I understand why people have this love for it, but if you try to like compare it to like other Batman movies, I understand what he's saying. This guy, it has, it does have an Adam West feel to it times. Well, those Adam West movies

are to us when we saw 1980s Batman as now 1989's Batman is to people nowadays who watch the Batman from that week. I think that's the comparison. Yeah, the Tim Burton stuff can be quite campy and

you can go back and we watch it and you're like oh my God. Like him mixing the freaking thing with the penguin you're like the Prince soundtrack and everything too. Yeah, yeah. But we'll talk a little bit more about James Gun in his comments and how, because I think John brings up a great point of that

when you're in that position, you get, and you haven't had a movie come out yet, people, and that fan base, I mean, the next person, whoever it is,

whenever Kathleen Kennedy decides to not do Star Wars, even if it's 100 years from now, but like, that person that comes in is not going to have this, like, oh, thank God, Kathleen Kennedy's gone, whoever it's going to be, they're going to get some crap too.

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Chef, everybody. All right. Once again, thank you to our friends over at AG1 and Green Chef. I've been telling you guys about them for so long. Age 1 has been with us for a bit now. And Green Chef. Have you tried Green Chef? I have not. It's first I've heard of it.

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So the way to help us out, if you have the means to, find a sponsor that you like. It's in the description. I always pin the links as the first comment below. Okay, let's get into some of the stuff that we're talking about with James Gunn because I think you make a great point. It's not, you've got to know that. He's another guy. You think you're bad on Twitter. This guy, I'm on.

Not that bad on Twitter. You're not great. My stance with James Gunn is very similar to yours. I think he does too much on Twitter. Yes. I think there's times where it's very, it's nice to have the guy out there. You're like, oh, maybe James Gunnell respond to me.

And oh, he gave some information out there. And now it's, there's a part of that that is pretty awesome. Yeah, sure. But there's other times just like, dude, just step back. Don't start fighting with people because you're giving other people, you know, ammo. Yeah. Just stay, what are you doing?

He's on both that and threats, by the way. He's doing both going back and forth. people on both platforms and not the same commentary threat. So clearly he's on both going back and forth. If that's him, which I imagine is, it sounds like it is. I think it is definitely him. So to me, I think James Gunn is like George R.R. Martin. Remember people were like, why the hell are you doing all these other things?

Finish the books. And so I feel this way about James Gunn is like, I don't mind occasionally pop it on there. It's fun, as you said. But like the constant amount that he is having to contradict stuff and go after stuff and try to correct the record. Let him talk. I like, yeah, let them all talk. because they're all going to show up for your movie. So what do you care when they're speculating about all this nonsense?

You're going to be the one that's going to set the record straight. You'll be the one that announces the casting. You'll be the one that tells when this film is coming out. And at the end, you'll be the one responsible for people's reactions to it. So why are you engaging in this shit? I think there's some people, though, man. There are some people that just can't help themselves. And it's like social media as much of an addiction as anything else.

I agree with that. It really is. And like I said, as much as I bust your chops, it's like there is a time. I look and I go and I see your tweet. I'm like, oh, don't do it. I'm like, all right, all right. And I, because, like, it's, there's tons of people in that whole Shmodown universe.

And as you mentioned, like, Callin Aliske. I don't, I don't, between, like, the mental health of it all, I don't understand why people do it. I just don't understand. It's a great point. It's so easy for me now to, I, I mute people left and right. Oh, ditto. Yeah, because if someone comes, will, will say something, instead of going after them and doing this thing where if they say something, then you get into this whole thread and go back and forth. And then you, when you put that thing down, they're either smile.

in or whatever, too, and now your day is like this, as opposed to just mute. And it's like, there's one thing, I think that it is very, very helpful to post stuff up there. Yeah. Every day. For this show, this show will get posted up there. This show will get posted on all social media platforms. And I think that that's a major benefit from it. It allows people to get the word out, especially because YouTube's notifications suck.

Yeah. So that, I get it. But it's like when you're the head of a company and you're doing this and you're trying to, like, as you said, you're trying to develop stuff. But what he walked into, and I think this kind of. is the reason I wanted to have this conversation today. So this guy's had such a crazy journey. I mean, he really has.

You go from, hey, he was, they think they wanted him to do, it was between him and Peyton Reed who was going to do Guardians. Because I remember when we went for the Ant Man set visit, Kevin Feigy told us that, because it was right around they were working on, we were there for Ant Man.

He was talking about Ant Man. He was talking about the stuff, and he said that Peyton Reed was very close to getting guardians. Wow. But they went with James Gunn, and James Gunn gets. And James Gunn, probably going into that, going, you could tell this guy's a comic book movie fan. He added his own sense of humor to it.

It is what scares me about Superman, by the way. But I'm excited about it, but it scares me, the humor, the certain sense of humor. He's got a very, like, I think it works brilliantly for the suicide squad, brilliantly for peacemaker, scares the shit out of me for Superman. Yeah, I agree. But anyway, he goes to this journey. He makes this unknown property. I remember McCuga during the Shmo's days going,

this thing's going to bomb, and it becomes this huge thing. The second one, I love it, but it's gotten better over age. And I think the third one is the best one out of the three of them. But in between that, you speak about tweets that got pulled back up. He was one of the people during that time that people went after him, and he was one of the, he was kind of the poster boy of going through Twitter and finding old tweets and then going, hey, and it has one for, was it for people like Batista.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Going to Disney and saying, I'm not coming back to Guardians unless you get him. So I don't know what you're going to do. They all signed a letter, but Batista was spearheading that effort. Yeah. 100%. No, I know.

He got caught in this quagmire of where the right wing pushed back on him because he had been so overtly left wing. The right wing, some right wing, I can't remember the guy who runs the show. I don't know if he's still doing the show, but he's the one that found guns, tweets, and then put them out there. Okay. And it's finding in those tweets, putting them out there, and that's what ended up having Disney kind of like take him off the project.

But incredible groundswell of support for him. And it swung all the way back around to where he got back on the project because I think people realized like, it's funny. He got caught in the trap. And then he also got caught in a positive way in the backlash that people were starting to have about, quote, unquote, all this cancel culture, which, you know, it's a term you can agree with or not agree with. But certainly it's what it's called.

And that kind of helped him out in the end, for God's sense. It did. And I think that it would also not only help them out, it kind of, it's like when you're in this relationship and then you don't want to break up with you and you were cheating on me but I wasn't. I'm breaking up with you. You're out. Get out of here. And then you go to your new girlfriend. Yeah.

Or new boyfriend. Right. And you're like, okay, cool. I'm going to hang out of you for a little bit. And then the old, you know what? I'm kidding. I want you back now. All right, I'll come back for a little bit. For a little bit. And now I'm going to run their company. I'm going to run the girlfriend and boyfriend's company. And that's what happened though. Because he went,

he got inside the system. And once he got a system of The Suicide Squad, because the Suicide Squad didn't do well. No, no. It was awesome. It was my favorite movie, my favorite comic movie of that year. Right.

Did you like that movie? The Suicide Squad? The Suicide Squad? Yes, I did like it. Yeah, I thought it was really fun. I mean, and Idrisub is one of these guys that hasn't quite become that big thing. Like, everybody knows him,

but he hasn't been that big success. So showcasing him here was so good for him. And then Sina, it was so great. And that leading to peacemaker, which I think is the best James Gunn, best unfiltered, honest James Gunn project ever. I agree. That is James Gun top to bottom when he gets it 100% right. Made me a fan of Sina because I always thought Sina was, I thought Sina was terrible in Bumblebee.

Like, terrible. And it's not necessarily his fault because of the movie. He was in the wrong movie. He was directed, like so much of it said, we're not doing Michael Bay stuff for this one. We're doing something different here. So can you switch that performance up? and he's been kind of cheesy and he took kind of that cheesiness

and stuff that he had done in wrestling and a lot of his performances and I'm like he's doing a full thing and then it was the suicide score I went he's good in this role so maybe I am interested to see him and he is fantastic in peacemaker like fantastic either the second or third episode

when he breaks down on the bed talking about like his dad playing with himself and talking about his dad that I was like there are actors currently working who've been doing it for 20, 30 years. We can't do what he did on that bad. I agree.

He won me over. But he also understand, as we were talking about, the Batista thing, you get why people fight for gun because gun brings things out of people in a way. He's able to, with performances and writing, he's not just to, hey, make my joke work. He's got very close relationship with these people that he works with. So I think that's one of the main reasons that people are excited for. It's why I'm excited about the corn and sweat and brought. Hosnihan of Superman.

But what I was going to say, though, is, and this kind of, again, leads into this whole thing with this DC and Marvel thing, where it is right now. The Golden Age was from around Batman begins, I mean, someone could be traced back to X-Men, but I think that when really started with the MCU and everything too. Batman Begins, though, for DC,

starts this trilogy of films of Batman Begins, Dark Night, Dark Night Rises, and they're just like this beloved things. And when the Dark Night comes out, it's the same year that Iron Man comes out. Yeah, 2008, yeah. And that's what kind of jumpstarts the MCU. So until around like 2019, right after Endgame, like, it's just like, I mean, that's a stretch of, I mean,

DCU had their problems. And they had a couple films that popped, but they had some movies that made big money. I mean, I know you're not an Aquaman fan, but that thing made a billion dollars, which is crazy. And it was just in this golden age since then, because I think a lot has to do with the studios of saying, okay, you know what?

Yeah, let's just put out of every show you can do, make three Marvel shows there, put four movies out there. DC's like, we have to do this, this, and this. I don't know what we're going to do, but we've got to catch the trend, catch the trend. And they're both just kind of right now. Yeah, because I also think with Marvel, it was more a matter of you saw them trying to go

in a different direction, where they were hiring younger writers who didn't have the same experience as the older writers had had who had made the golden age of what we enjoyed about the MCU. You saw them taking chances with new directors and new approaches

and what have you. And in the end, it didn't really work out. If it ain't broke. Yeah, and you can even stretch it out to Star Wars. How many of those Star Wars series really nailed it in the way people were hoping they would nail it? That's all under the Disney umbrella.

So I think they were all just trying trying to take certain chances at a certain time, thought they could write it out and put it together. But now clearly, there's damage on both of those brands. And DC has been destroyed of the last few months. So it's like, we'll see what Superman Legacy does. And certainly the bounceback of Blue Beetle on National Cinema Day was great to see.

Yeah. As we're seeing, you know, a few days away from it as this is coming out. But like, it was great to see that. We'll see what that leads to. And Superman Legacy has got to show us because nobody gives, I don't think anybody gives a shit about Aquaman too. Get it out. It's time. Get it clean.

Yeah. tough. I'm glad you brought that up because there's a lot of things there with, this is kind of one of the things I don't envy about, and we don't mention saffron at all. Nobody ever does, right? Right, right. Gun and saffron together, they did not pick up an easy gig to start with. No, no. Because you go into it and they go, okay, look, you guys do your movie, announce your slate, but help us promote all these other movies we have. Yeah. Because even though it's not fair, you're going to be tainted with, if it does bad, it's going to put a stink on the stuff that you do because people who go to see movies in, you know, Idaho,

they don't have any idea what a DCU is connected to a DCU connected to this. They just see Batman, they see another Batman, they say they don't pay attention to this stuff. So we got to market to them, but good luck. Yeah. And that's why you get comments like The Flash is one of the best comic book movies of all time from James Gunn because he's trying to sell it. And Zazlov, too, yeah. And Zazlov, which, again, I'm watching, I'm watching for the third time with my,

my wife. I don't mind the movie. Oh, I like the movies. Yeah. This, they're, at the, every time I watch it, though, there are a couple times with humor and a couple of things. I'm like, not the best. But it's still, I enjoy it. I like the movie. I think it's a, I think it's a pretty. There are blood holes in the film, but it's, it's still an enjoyable experience. I thought so. Yeah, I thought so. But either way, so he's, they got to do that. The Black Adam thing could have been fixed. If that movie cost $120 million, like Blue Beetle did, and they gave The Rock a ton of points.

and back end and other stuff instead of the big salaries and put Jama doing a freaking $260 million movie. That was the stupidest decision. I love The Rock, but that cost way too much money because that movie makes the same exact money that it makes and it scaled down. People are talking about how brilliant The Rock is right now. And then Shazam 2, as I mentioned,

the worst part about that movie is Zach Levi, playing a 12-year-old when he should be playing an 18-year-old, which I thought Ezra Miller did a much better job of playing an 18-year-old than. And Zach Levi did. But I didn't mind that movie either, but it ate it. Right. And then what was the third one? It was the third one?

Was it the third one? Was Blue Beetle the third one? Blue Beetle was the third one. Shazam 2 Flash and then... Well, no, so the Flash, right. So Blue Beetle was the fourth one. So, yeah, the Flash, even though we both think it's a fine movie, was one of the biggest bombs of the summer. Of D.C.'s entire slate, which is kind of crazy to think about

with how they promoted that movie. Right. But I think with the Aquaman two thing, is it's a really difficult situation because everyone's like, but it made a billion dollars, but it made a billion dollars as you totally release it.

It made a billion dollars years ago. During the golden age. And so now you're bringing out Aquaman too after the debacle of these last few decent films. Yeah, you've got to. I know, I know. But anyone thinking this is going to cross a billion dollars

is out of their effing minds. It is going to tank. It is not going to do well. A lot of people don't want to see Amber Hurd with that, after that whole situation. It's got some, it's got some hurdles. It does.

And a lot of people that I've spoken to have seen it have said it's not good. So there's always reshoots. Yes. People when they go, oh, reshoots is always reshoots. One, maybe two. Big films, yeah. Four, dude. Four reshoots and James Gunn putting the last round of them.

That's not a good sign. That's a $260 million movie. I don't know why he's touching it. I would have refused to touch anything that I didn't create. I know. No, David. Let just let it play. Let them.

Stop spending money on it. Exactly. They stop it. You're not going to make any money back. Maybe they think they can save it because Mamoa's got, Mamoa was the best part about Fast Axe. Yes,

100%. And so he stole that movie. He does have something about him that you're just like, I think he is very similar to what you're talking about with, with Idris. I don't think the Mamoa has had the opportunity yet. Even though he had a billion-dollar movie, I agree. He just,

there's still that thing. I think he's a movie story. I thought it's a thing. Remember what he fought? What was the movie he fought with Stallone with the Axe? Do you remember that movie? Oh my God. Remember that movie?

Yes, I saw the movie in the theater. He was the villain in that, and the movie was terrible, but he was great. And he fought, Stallone with an axe. And I was like, that guy's a star because it was during the Game of Thrones days. It's a two-word title, I think. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I think that the movie, the only reason, I tend to lend more on the agreeing with you that I think it's in trouble. Yeah.

But the only reason that I think it has a shot to make money, it doesn't really have much competition in December. there's not a lot of things going on at that time to see. People like to go to the movies in December. And who knows if it's even going to come out because of the strike, but if it doesn't have Momoa to promote it, dead in the water. They can't push this again. They can't. I mean, they just push Dune.

Well, Dune is different because June was a success. But they need Mamoa to promote this movie, dude. Like, they even, they even, they did some, like, mathematical stat. even a movie like Blue Beetle with Shola who is great, he's great, but he's virtually unknown for the most part, right? But he's got a very charismatic

personality that he would have helped the movie. Like, would it have pushed it into a profit? Probably not. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it would have helped. And he's also had a younger generation. He probably would have gotten more people. Probably would have gotten a lot of people out there to see it.

But Mamoa, you need him out there. Now, you don't put him or her in anywhere near. Right. You put Mamoa out there. And the same thing like Shamaulet, I can't say his name. Salame. Thank you. He's not going to be able to promote Wonka.

Right. You know, so it's like there, there's, Warner Brothers is having, it's getting kicked in the nuts. This is our own fault. This is another dangerous thing about December. You're saying it's not going to have competition. It is from its own studio. Right.

Because you've got Wonka and the Color Purple coming out within 10 days. They're all coming out within 10 days of each other. Wow. All three of those films. Color Purple is a very different audience. But, but still. It's competition. It's still competition against your own...

Family competition. Against your own studio. 100%. I do always think when color purple comes up. I like Elizabeth Banks, but I always think about that moment at whatever award show that was. Remember? Which she gave up to Spielberg? When she gave me to Spielberg?

She's like... And just curious that Steven Spielberg has never had a female-led movie before. And then someone goes, the color purple. And she goes, um, the color purple. Okay, I was wrong. Don't say anything. Unless you know. unless you know that Stephen Spielberg hasn't done it, don't say it.

I would love to see what the hell happened. Oh, no, I know. She probably sent him gifts and, I mean, come on. You don't come for Spielberg. No, such a mistake. What are you doing? Anyway, so, like, just every time someone brings up the color purple. But yeah, you're right, though.

They have three movies coming out in the same month or same span or whatever it is. 10 days. So that's why I do think it's possible that they move it, that they move something. They move something. Yeah, a lot of rumors have been saying that we're going to move Wonka or color purple. I tend to agree with you on the Shalamee stuff. You need him to promote.

People love Shalomay. Dan Feinberg tweeted some of those really funny. He said, released Dune and Wonka in May of next year. Make that your Barbenheimer by calling it Shala May. And compete against yourself? Salamee, though, like M-A-Y. But you're going up against yourself. Those are two different studios.

That's true. or whatever thing. But, uh, yeah, man. So, like, you, you don't envy Gunn and Safran for that because... And I will say this. Mamoa. Mamoa was a star. Momoa was a star, and he stole FastX, but FastX still underperform.

Because it costs $400 million. How much you think these reshoots are costing? I know, I know. It's going to be like 400 for Aquaman too. These movies, this is my... This is, I have become the rent is too damn high for, for these movies because it is, man. It's too expensive. And that's why, so...

Speaking of Blue Beetle, like, if Blue Beetle would have cost $250,000,000,000, but it cost $120 million. And because of word of mouth, like, I think you and I, for the most part, are on the same page with the movie. I think Shullo was absolutely incredible. I think he's a movie star. I think that the family stuff was exactly what I was hoping for. It was very similar to Miss Marvel for me. The stuff that I thought was the least interesting was the superhero stuff.

It was generic. It was the same stuff. I'd seen a million times over. And I thought Susan Sarandon and her henchmen were one note. But that's not why I went to see the movie. I went to see the movie because I go, let's see if, A, he's a movie store. He is. B, do I care about, and that Bruno, Bruna, what's a?

Brunner, Markazine. Yeah, yeah. She's not only stunning. Yeah, beautiful. Really good actress, too. So there was a lot that came. I thought it was charming movie. I thought it was charming.

If this comes out in 2008, it's a huge movie in 2018. in 2000. It has that vibe to it. But we've wanted better from our villains since 2008, so it gets caught in that trap. If it had a better villain, a better setup, it would have been a lot more fun. I think Greg Alba said it

really well. He said that it felt like a phase one Marvel movie. Yeah, yeah. He's 100% right. And I think that one of the things about it is a problem. And like, well, what's wrong with that? Well, there's been phase two, phase three, phase four. We've moved on. We've seen so many different versions of this story. We've seen this story so many times.

I like the fact that he's, that hopefully, I think you will say Trudeau's word and bring over Sholo. I hope so, too. I don't think it needs to be. They said it is, it is a, the character is DCU, but the movie isn't. Right. Why?

What is it? It doesn't connect to the DCU really at all, does it? No, no, there's not hardly anything. He mentions Superman. There's some Manist Steel references. I think, yeah, George Lopez mentions Batman as character, Uncle Rudy, but just Batman, right. But just Batman, not the specific Batman.

Right, exactly. So you can play with it. I think that you could, if you want it to, you could make that movie. People want that family. back. I hope that it is, as you say, like I thought that the $4 movies would definitely be able to help it and it boosted it up. And word of mouth and that's another one that it doesn't have a lot of, there's not a lot of competition right now. And there's, I mean, the only thing is like Grand

Turismo. I will say this though, as much as I love, as much, I don't know where you stand on Grat Treesmo, but as much as I love Sholo. Yeah. If someone said to me, what, just a movie fan, not a comic movie fan, like a movie fan was like, I want to go see a movie. What should I go see? I'm sending in the Grand Theresa. It's a better film. Yeah. It is. It's just fantastic.

And it's even more like you didn't expect this thing to be good at all. At all. At all. I forgot Bloom Kim even did it. Yeah, right. By the time his name came up at the end, you're like, oh, my God. But yeah, when you watch, I was really surprised at how well he directed the movie. And that is a film that is absolutely helped by the direction of that movie.

Absolutely is. It is so well. And Harbour is great in the film, but Jaman Hansu shows you, levels that you've never seen from him before. And I came up a couple times. Yes, especially at the end. And the kids, I can't remember the kid's name, but he is really good. He was.

And he will be someone that I think a lot of people are watching going forward for sure. Yeah. And so that's the only competition I really see Blue Beetle having right now. And that movie is getting word to mouth also. It's got a much better audience score. Because speaking of generic, people think that it's a very kind of paint by numbers kind of biopic thing. Yeah.

That's what the critic has been, I didn't see that. I felt it. I felt it very differently because I guess maybe I wasn't expecting anything. Yeah. Because I really enjoyed that movie a lot. And that's it. I mean,

so Blue Beetle could have a chance, the same way that elemental did. I think that's what we're looking at here. There's a possibility that Blue Beetle becomes an elemental type of thing and carries us over into December possibly if word of mouth keeps building. It doesn't make a profit, though. At the very least, it'll break even. Yeah.

Because, like, elemental didn't even make a profit. It's still under. performing for Pixar Elemental, even though it's going to be $500 million, probably by the end of its run. Right. But what did it, but through, it was like a $200 million movie to make and then plus marketing. So you probably, with all the theaters, you got to pay and everything too, it's, it's, we'll maybe make $20 million or something like that. But that leads us into kind of the end of Aquaman is, gets us in December.

And I do agree with you. They should put it out. Yeah, they have to. At the very least go, okay, let's take. it on the chin we know black adam barely broke even shazam ate it flash ate it blue beetle might break even but it's probably going to take a loss what do we do just take the loss and move on to the next phase because the next because i would say the reason i say yeah go to the next just put it out because if you put it out in 2023 2024 you got nothing yeah nothing and you don't have anything

until 2025 when superman comes out and you give it you give it a chance to to breathe. You push it again into March and April and then it's still, like I said, the casual movie fan is going to, oh, was that connected to the MoMAO thing? And you're going to be like, well, actually, no, it's not because people, my uncle who goes to see these movies, he didn't know what

the hell of any of this stuff is, like this bubble that we live in. Yeah, it's like, and people are tired of the superhero stuff, and that's kind of the basis of this kind of conversation. You can sense it, you can feel it, and the reason is, and the reason is because the quality is gone down. A hundred percent. And I think

Rightfully so, the fans are not going to see these films because of that. Yeah. And that's telling the story. You know, totally respect Koi. Koi and I, we don't always see how to eye. Him telling people to go see Shazam to or else we're going to lose these movies. I think that's not the right approach. Now, it doesn't mean Koi's approach is wrong overall.

It's its approach. It's opinion. But for me, I think that's the wrong thing to say. Because if people keep going to mediocre films, guess how much effort the studio is going to make about these films. mediocre efforts. You've got to vote with your pocketbook, and if you don't go see these films or your wallet, whatever,

if you don't go see these films, then you're telling the studio, do better. And I think that's what you have to do. I agree. I think his point, his point, though, is maybe in the, because this is from being someone

who's worked in that studio system, the one thing that you could see is the studio's kind of doing the old, well, looks like the fad is dead, and let's just kill it. Right. That's probably kind of where he's coming from. This fear is the overall.

I think it's the overall. and that's kind of where he's coming from with it. But I think you're right. It's like that was the problem is once, and this is what I talked about recently. It's like Feigey, which we'll get into Marvel in a moment, is that it's like,

Figey's stretched way too thin because of the whole thing that, what people always do a lot of times. I'm sure you get it on your channel. I get it on my channel all the time when they're talking about Disney and they're like, well, I don't trust Disney to write a good Star Wars show

and a good movie in this. Disney has nothing to do with the writing of the show. They have nothing to do with it. They give them the check. to make it. If there's certain things they think aren't going to be right for their standards or something, they'll give notes. But the decisions that are made that are like, I don't trust Disney Star Wars.

It's Lucasfilm Star Wars still. Disney owns it. Disney owns it and there's certain things. But Lucasfilm is the one that puts out the stuff and anything like you want to Boba Fett, you want to blame Boba Fett? You don't blame Disney. You blame Lucasfilm. You want to give props to Mandalorian season one and two. You get props to Lucasfilm, right? You give props to Disney cuts them to check and they collect

money from the revenue and stuff of movies and TV and merch and all that stuff. That's what they do. But when this whole thing of like, well, it's, it's Disney's fault because Disney was the one who, who, who added this and told if I could do this, well, they were still part of it with Endgame. Yeah. So is that Disney, Disney? Yeah. No one says, yay for Disney on that. It's funny how that works. It's right. It's right. It's always, it's always the, and then what I do think is Disney's fault is this. This is something you can blame Disney on when there's all the success and Marvel's making hand over fist during the Golden Age and Endgame blows up. Like, oh, you know,

we got the streaming service. Kevin, can you give it? us two or three shows a year? Can you do that? He's like, that's a lot. We want three of them. And can you give us three or four movies a year? It's a lot. We want them all. That they can do. And they have done that. And I think that's been a detriment to the Marvel brand. And before we get into it, I want to tell you guys a little bit more about Marine Layer and Better Help. Here we go. Support for today's episode comes from Marine Layer. You guys know I love T-shirts. So wear them all the time. They sent me the softest T-shirt ever, like ever. Imagine like the softest thing that you ever touched.

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All right, so there are tons of times, especially for me. I've just kind of been up late, thinking too much. So don't think about that now. Don't worry about that now. Just go to sleep, go to sleep, and you can't. You just have thoughts racing through your heads, keeping you up at night.

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It is so helpful and so convenient. So if you're thinking of starting therapy, give Better Help a try. It's online, and it's designed to be convenient, flexible and suited to your schedule. What you do is you fill out a brief questionnaire and you get matched with a licensed therapist and then you switch therapists anytime, no additional charge.

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We did for a long time. They sponsored us, and we're working through them, hopefully, very soon again, on our new platform. But great stuff. You know, Christian, you know what?

You and I've talked about it off mic and on, Mike. Mental health is an important, important thing. It's something to save my life in 2016. And I love that Better Help exists. I love that they offer that mental health care for people that needed at prices that they can afford

and convenient ways that they can have these things addressed with them. It's important, man. It is. And I think that we, as I mentioned, in the read, and I mentioned like my, Roxy Shrier, who's been very vocal on the show, because

of this show, and because Better Health was sponsoring this, she was able to reach out. She's talking to somebody at the last like, four months, five months, she's been so happy with it. People in my family have been using it. It's been super helpful, so we're glad to have a marine layer. Let me tell you, I loved soft,

I love soft shirts, and I got these pants, dude. Like, I was worried because I saw these pants, not these, but there's like, and I can't do the skinny jeans thing. I can't do it. I can't, but I can't do it. But for these relaxing pants, and God bless anybody who doesn't, but they give other options. And I'm like, okay, so I'm

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All right, John. So we talked about... Hold on. Stop first. Go ahead. I want to ask you something. Go ahead. Who came up with this idea of the light blue wall?

I love the way that it has progressed in this studio. Because it's been a while, so I've been here. Yeah, yeah. You haven't seen... The light blue wall was new, and I noticed obviously watching some of the content in the last few months. But who came up with these design behind you? Was this all Christian Harle? I'm not going to lie, John.

This is all Brett Sheridan. Well, I should say that. That's a son of me. which is good for something. I should say this. We talked about it. So, like, beforehand, we,

when I went out of my own after Skybound, yeah, Brett and I came up with an idea of what we wanted to do. So we went through, like, Amazon together, and he's like, what do you think about this?

I was thinking of this. And I was like, well, yeah, and so my wife actually, to be fair to her, because I know if she watches, she said, wait a minute. My wife actually came up

with the blue bricks. So smart. Yeah, she was the one that came up with that. She was a lot of credit. And then, so Brett, put them all up, did that. And then we, what we did was, because I didn't know, I was like, look, I'm going to have to build.

Yeah, yeah. And I thought it was, I thought this would take us around a year and a half, two years to even come close to what it is now. Yeah. But we put an Amazon list out there and said to the fans, like, hey, if you want to help us out, please do. And we still have that Amazon list. I got something, someone sent it to me like last week something on the list, too. And it's like, it's very supportive. It's awesome.

And then, yeah, we call these like the first rate Nate lights because one of our viewers, he got all the lights for us. And it was, like, the monitors. It's just, it was, it was very humbling, to say the least. But thank you. Yeah. It's, it looks. And then, you know, gentle giants sent a bunch of stuff. That's, it's awesome.

Like that Bruce Lee thing, I love. So it's, I use a green screen because I can't get this, replicate this look at where, in my house where I do my stuff. So I'm just envious of the fact that you can make it look through as inviting as war and as warm as you do. And then we have, you know, we have the Katie set, but we're going to probably start using that for, because we got other things we're doing with her. Are we moving on that set next or no?

We, so, you want, you want to shoot in that set? What did you say? Are we moving on to since. Oh, yeah, we're going to move on to set, too. Yeah, no, instead of Marvel, we're going to talk about the set for sure. But we, but no, that whole set is, we did a thing that, doesn't it bum me out? Like, when you work on, like, a segment, you work on something or a new show. Yeah.

And it doesn't do what you want it to do, right? Since the Collider Days. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so we did a thing that I thought was, and people that watched it loved it, but it was called film treatment, right? And it was basically Brett on the couch given a review, but me acting like the therapist. Oh, yeah. And he would go and see a movie and he would do, and he did like Fableman's and he did something else. Like, oh, he talked about whether or not Tony Gleroy was going to follow the K2S O canon.

Right. And I thought they were really, really funny. And they just didn't do what it was. So we, we, but it just showed you, we killed the set. And then Katie wound up using that corner for a bit. Yeah. things happen for a reason. Yeah, for sure.

But going back into leading, we'll close with James Gunn on this. What times you're out? I'm good. Okay. Yeah. So James Gun now is going to basically, if he gets lucky, Aquaman 2 makes money. Yeah, yeah.

It's not anything that these movies do. He can't be judged for it by Zazol. I don't hang anything on James Gun. Yeah. Not a damn thing. Well, the audience, a lot of the audience, audience will. I know. It's frustrating. But like Zazlov can't. Yeah.

And shouldn't. Hey, well, you came in. You're supposed to promote these movies. It's like, no. And I don't think he would do that. But Superman legacy is everything. Yeah. If that movie bombs, it's over. Yeah. It's over. Yeah, I saw one of the guys that I follow for box office. Louis Fernando, I think his name is,

he was saying, well, the first movie doesn't have to be, doesn't have to do well, box office. You're insane. False. You're absolutely insane. People are waiting with knives out. The Snyder Bros are absolutely waiting to tear them to pieces. But some of the DC fandom is also a bit upset about everything. So if it comes out and it does not do well and it is not well received, it's over. It's over.

It's over. Because it's one thing if he was, what's the Commandos movie that it's called? Yeah, yeah, Halting Commandos. Oh, no. The one that David Harbors. Right, right, right. But in that one, if that one comes out first and it doesn't do. The animated one, right.

Is that the creatures? Creature Commandos. Oh, that's animated. So, that's an event. Bad example. That's a series. So, I don't know, Swamp Thing. Okay, we'll say Swamp.

Let's say Swamp. I'm just thinking of, let's say Swamp Thing comes out first, and Swamp Thing comes out, and Mangold puts it out, and it eats it. It's the first movie. Yeah. Not good, but not detrimental. Right. Because it's Superman. It's, right.

It's Superman. And Superman hasn't had a massive movie. Remember, I love Henry Cavill as Superman, and I think he got screwed. I really do think he got screwed. And I would, and I was. excited to have them back. But let's not pretend that Man of Steel was a billion-dollar blockbuster. I love that movie.

Yep, me too. And what the funny thing is, it's $700 million is a lot of money. And today, I mean, Guardians did what, $800? Guardians 3 did $800. It's a lot of money. But in the golden era, it was looked upon as like, ah, it didn't do that good. It did well.

It did really well. And it didn't even get a sequel. They jumped into Batman v. He got screwed from the start. But Superman hasn't had the Superman. kind of the feel that we always knew. Snyder took him in this kind of darker tone, which I thought was a good choice at the time.

But now the Christopher Reeve kind of hoped Superman, we have not had that in a long time since Brandon Ralph, and it didn't work. Even that didn't work. Didn't work. So this is going to be the first time. And he's also going to be, if it does well, he's going to be the guy that leads your universe.

He's going to be your Iron Man. You know, so yeah, the bombs, it's over. He put, this is, he's putting the tent pole in the ground. Yeah. To let you know that this is what everything's going to spring from. It's the tree. And if the tree is rotten at the core from the beginning, you're not going to have a lot of really good branches of films coming out from that tree.

Because their contract went from what, 2023, the beginning of 20203 until 2027. Yeah. So, or is it 22. 28, 20, I think it's 28. No, it's a four year contract. Oh, okay. The four year contract. No, it was four, because I initially thought it was three and people correct me to say it was four.

but I just don't remember if it started, I think, did it start at the end of 2022 or it started beginning of 2023? Probably 2023, I would imagine. Either way, let's say hypothetically the beginning of 2027. Sure, sure. So, 27, and if Superman eats it, you're going to have one or two other movies that are going to be able to come out in the interim, and then they don't get re-uped.

Now, Superman crushes, and they still, they have a couple movies that, you know, continue on that legacy, but it does go into that fear of what's, what's Gunn going to do with Superman, right? Is he going to be able to not gun it? You know, because like every other movie, like you mentioned, Suicide Squad, Peacemaker, fit his tone. Yeah.

Superman, to me, doesn't. Well, that's why I think the authority is in there. Right. The authority is going to be the James Gun commenting on the Golden Age Superman. Yeah. You're going to have the Golden Age Superman. You're going to have the Golden Age Superman.

Then you have authority making all these comments, scatological humor, all the shit that he does to balance it out. But is that going to work? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Let me ask you. What about Wonder Woman 3?

What are your thoughts? It ain't happening. Right. They already said anything. What does she say? Do you agree with her or do you agree with it? What happened to you? I think it was the same thing that The Rock was doing.

I think she was politicking in the way to say, you know, hey, I do think people like me in this. Just letting you know. I will tell you. I do think that, remember what happened when they had these first initial announcement before any of these movies came out that bombed? What did they say?

Well, listen, we're not saying that the door's not open for any of these people. When in reality, it's like, if these movies, bomb, this door's close. But I know you love. The door's open. Same thing they told her. Which probably they shouldn't have.

But they're like, same thing is. Yeah, but AF like, oh, we'll bring you back to direct a movie. Right. Or Cavill, oh, yeah, down the road. You'll be coming back. But this is specifically Gunn and Safran who are just like, look, we're trying to figure it out. Because Patty Jenkins was like, well, I want to fit this.

And they're like, we're not doing that. We're doing this instead. And she's like, I'm out. And like, okay, well, and they announced, so it doesn't, it's just not fitting. We'll, maybe we'll find something with Patty down the line. Yeah. With Gal there probably, let's see what happens.

Because they still had that, they still had her in two movies. They had her in Shazam and in the Flash. So they were playing nice with her, but they, they shouldn't, they should have just said, let's see what happens and then we'll revisit. Or they should have said, which I thought they should have in the beginning, if you're going to say no to Cavill, then you reboot the whole damn thing. That's what they should have. For confusion,

purposes. And so I think she was out there. And she said, look, I had a conversation with them. And they said, we're going to develop it. And this. And meanwhile, Gunn is like, oh, no. You know, and Safran, like, oh, no. And then he nipped in the button and said, or Warner Brothers, somebody didn't. It said, it's not, uh, that ain't happening right now. God hasn't said a word. And we just talked about a few minutes ago about how he goes on social media a lot. If he hadn't said anything about it, that tells you it's not happening. Right. And I think that that's, look, and I think that that for Gallagadot, of course she wants another Wonder Woman. I will say this if they were going to do it and the Calan Askin and I talked about this is that I think that they should have just said look we're going to do one more with Gal to close out the trilogy but it's an elseworld's thing it's the same thing like Batman. Yeah they said it's just like the Batman

it's just like Joker it's because we've had two movies and we want to finish out of trilogy we want Gal to be able to take Diana home one more time it's an else worlds project I think you could have gotten away with that but having her like when it was a rumor that she was going to actually come back as Wonder Woman I was like that in the DCU, I'm like, that's too weird, man.

That's too confusing. So, yeah, I think she was politicking. You know, and she's, I mean, you're a little more harsh on her than I am. I think you know, like her. She's not a good actress. I don't mind her. Everybody fucking knows this. I don't mind her.

She's good in the first Wonder Woman. Yeah. She's passable in the second Wonder Woman. But that's not really her fault. That second Wonder Woman was not a good movie. All respect, Kalinowski. But like, he owns it. He owns it.

Red Notice is terrible. And did you see her in the most recent one? No. You said you shut it off, right? Yeah, 30 minutes in. My wife was watching and she said she couldn't get through it. Yeah. But I don't know.

Is that her the movies that she's choosing? Cut it out. If she wasn't pretty, would you feel this way? Hey, stop that. Cut it out. Stop that. I mean, look, she's definitely, she's, as Lou Santini says, she's not ugly. But she's, but she's, I do think she's better than people give you, give credit for.

I do. Okay. I do. I hope your faith gets rewarded. If you're able to pull that, my faith will be rewarded when the aliens show up. Don't get me started on this. I'm sure. Please.

You're short. My girlfriend's brother's daughter saw something in the files. It must be there. Don't get me story. That has nothing to do with it. See, you're one of those people who have... Yeah. I believe in aliens, by the way.

We'll talk about some other times. Illegal one. Different show. Different show. But that does lead us. And again, look, we're not even done yet. Every time John's on, we do the multi-ep... No, I love it.

The multi-epic episodes, I think the last time that we did the the damn one, it was like two hours long, and we did a big show. That leads us to Marvel. Marvel ain't in that place that they were. I think people ask me, like, what do you think, and I'm not talking about box office. I'm talking about what movies have you,

and shows, have you enjoyed more in the last couple of years, D.C. or Marvel. I mean, you've got to throw a peacemaker in there. So if I throw a peacemaker in there. The Suicide Squad? The Batman? Joker. Or maybe Joker was.

2018. So maybe we'll say 2019, but either way. And again, I like the Flash. Yeah. I didn't mind Shazam 2. Blue Beetle I liked. Yeah, Blue Beetle I liked. And I liked, I actually, I acknowledge it's not a good movie, but it's a late 90s.

I had fun watching Black Adam. I did. I did, I did. I know. But, but. That's because you worked with it. That's nothing to do with it. It was a, we wrote for the rock. Watching the movie, and if you said to me, if you gave me all your points of why you didn't like the movie, There's not one thing I'm going to say right and I can disagree with me. No, I just enjoyed watching it.

I just enjoyed watching it. Yeah, because it was like when I just the stupid smile on my face, the score is fantastic, by the way. Yes, I don't disagree with that. Yeah, but anyway, then you go to Marvel. I thought, I think we're on the same page. Dr. Strange 2 didn't love it. I just hated that movie.

Pure, pure Tim, excuse me, that's Sam Ramey. Pure Sam Ramey movie. Nineties. Yeah. Black Panther 2 is fine. It's fine. They shoved in too much, but what they didn't shove in really worked.

It really worked. And there was just... And look, they had a very hard thing to fight back from. So, but nonetheless, it was okay.

Thor, Love and Dundra's atrocious. You like it. I'm gonna do the Christian Harlem. You can tell me all your points why you don't like it. Fine. But for whatever reason,

Thor Love Unda worked for me. Okay. It's atrocious, in my opinion. That becomes like Last Jedi for me. Like, every time you watch, it gets worse and worse and worse. And I haven't even been able...

I've watched, I tried to watch a little bit with my, with my daughter. Class Jedi? No, no. Thor, Love and Thunder was trying to watch her with my daughter and I was saying, we can't do it. I can't. It's made for your daughter too. That's crazy. It's so bad. It's so bad. So that one and then what, but Guardian

Guardians 3, I love. Yes. One of my favorite MCU movies. So touching that film. Love that movie. And then Ant Man Quantumania, which again saw it in the theater. Love the science fiction element, but same thing. Like I just, it's, the end is bad. The end of that movie is bad. It's a chaotic mess. But I don't mind the

movie, but the end of it is a chaotic mess. I think DC's had a better run. And the show, Secret Invasion. Yeah, that did be a lot. She Hulk. Yeah. But then you get, you get certain ones at Wanda Vision that did good. Wandavision's great. Loki is great. Loki is great. I like Hawkeye.

I thought that was a fun Christmas... I like parts of it. Film. Or series. Winter Soldier and Falcon, I liked. You didn't like it? It just... I didn't like it because it presented something that it didn't address fully. And I'm all... We can't do Disney racism. Okay?

If you're going to bring up systemic racism, Marvel. Marvel Rota. I'm saying, Marvel Rota. Don't bring it out. I'm saying don't address it. Because if you're not going to fully address it,

don't waste my time trying to address it. It was a green book approach to racism, and it was frustrating because there's something much more nuanced and deeper, especially when you see what you got from Andor, which is under the same umbrella. If you had done the Andor approach to Falcon and Winter Soldier, I'd be singing its praises from the mountaintops. So after you list all those movies and shows,

now granted, Marvel had some more, so to either say, well, they had more, so of course they were better, or they had more to fail. So, of course, who's having the better run since endgame? Man, you could make a case. You made a really good case for D.C. I hadn't put it all together in quite that way, but yeah, you might be right, which is ironic. I'm not talking about it.

Yeah, yeah, right, right. You're talking quality and enjoyability, if I can use that term. Yeah, yeah. You might be right. I'm going D.C., man. But I also think people have a higher bar for Marvel now. So the frustration is immediate. It's like being the sports team, right?

It's like, Yankees have a good lineup. They got a good lineup, but they're just too many injuries, and they're just not playing good. Right. So it's shitty manager, shitty GM, it's overcastle. But look, and I don't think that the GM inside of, I think the GM problem

is a Lucas film thing, but I don't think it's a Marvel thing. And I think that Kevin Feigey stretched way too thin, but like this secret, I know I saw your tweets, I watched two Secret Invasion. Didn't go back. Still haven't gone back. Yeah.

Didn't watch more. I mean, by the end of our reviews on the geek buddies, I was just wondering if we even needed to finish the reviews, you know, because it was like Willow. I was like, do we even need to finish these reviews because no one's watching, but, you know, you're committed to them. Well, yeah, you're not wrong. You're better man than I am.

Because the way that I do it now is that if I enjoy watching the show and I want to talk about it, then I'll do it all the way through. But if I'm like, if I start talking about a show and the audience is like, hey, we just want to get your opinion on it, and then I'll keep doing it. But if I'm doing something and I'm going out like, and they, like I did those secret invasion, nobody gave a shit. Nobody cared about it at all. And I was like, I'm not doing it.

I don't care about. I won't watch this thing. I don't want to. I mean, and I've never felt that way about the MCU stuff because I always felt like I needed to know what was going on. I feel, and I've said this many times over, and I'm curious you feel the same way. I felt by the time we were into phase one and phase two of Marvel, even though, yes, they had standalone movies, but at least with the taserac and other things, you kind of knew where they were going with it. What the hell is this thing? Yeah.

What is it now? Yeah, they've got themselves in a problem because of the multiverse stuff. Yeah. And it seems like they have fumbled a ball quite a few times on the multiverse stuff so that people don't have a very clear idea. And I don't mean the nerds who have like fully mapped it out. I mean regular people who are not into that bubble and are just trying to watch good movies, they're not making the connective tissues with this stuff because you've been clumsy and awkward

and fumbled a number of opportunities to make them cohesive. And that's been an issue. And it's also one of the, as you said before. Like there's a guy, there's a big structure in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean. They acknowledge it once. They acknowledge it once I think in like She Hulk and like in that newspaper rat or something. That is massive. Dude, that and then they set up that thing at the end of Dr. Strange with Charlie Sterron.

She's like, they haven't called me. I don't know when I'm going back. Right. So they clearly just want to throw in a cameo, right? And then there's these other things like the stuff that we've talked about in nauseam in this show is that what drove me nuts is that they've done this thing. Now, they used to do this thing where there was one storyline, and they would bring in the directors to have their vision on it, but they had the storyline involved, and it was like, yes,

we want you to put your touch on it, but you've got to fill out what we're doing. Now it's like, no, go ahead, Sam Ramee, make a Raimi movie. Tyca, make a Tyca movie. Chloe's out, which I like, I like Eternals. I know. I like Eternals, but it is a, but it is a close out movie. It's a close out movie, for sure. And it's like, so that whole thing has now become,

And kind of a loss because the Dr. Strange part of it, they didn't even read the scripts for WandaVision. That was insane. Insane. Yeah. What are you doing? But that's a Figey problem. Right.

Kevin Figey used to be like he would call in, I remember what video it was, but he would bring in people to go, okay, this needs to match up here, and this needs to match up here, and these people need to know about this and this. That's a Fyggy thing. And whether he's stretched too thin or not, it's like, dude, make sure everybody, like WandaVision makes no sense. because of, or Dr. Transchemy's no sense. Are these kids to show up?

Who are these kids? It's the same. You might as just, it was Wanda Vision all over again. She was learning the same lesson she'd already learned in Wanda Vision. So it made no sense. That's why reading the, if you were not watching the show or reading the scripts and you're making the movie, then there's no cohesive. And I think where Fige got caught with Ramey, and Figey is not said this specifically, but I'm taking his comments about Ramey. He was hero-worshipping Ramey.

Yeah. And that's tough to tell your hero. to do certain things if your hero doesn't want to do those things and maybe Faii got caught a little bit there but this is way too important right to be getting lost in that kind of shit and so this is an atrocious rumor that was going around he might that he might Sam Ramee might be directing secret wars yeah was that you guys mentioned that to me I don't know if we I don't know we broke it but Jeff mentioned that to me and I I couldn't think of a worse idea

terrible idea yeah and I think that goes back to the hero worship thing yes I I think that unfortunately, here's the thing. What I will say is this. There are a lot of, and the guy is a revered director, right? He's just not my, this is not my thing. Neither am I. But there are ramy heads. I took my buddy Derek with me to the premiere, and he's a ramey head.

He was like, oh, do you love it? I'm like, not really. He's a ramey head. Kevin Fying, he's a ramy head. So he probably loved the movie. And that scares me because there's been some great humor in these Marvel movies under his guidance. So to him to slide into that 90s, Dutch angle mess of a humor that

doesn't work for me. Now, are there some scenes in the film that are incredible? Certainly the note stuff, the musical note stuff. It's ingenious. Yeah, it's a gimmick. It was ingenious. You hadn't seen something like that before. But the zombie stuff was wasted, and then the whole thing with her

and the introduction of America was absolutely piss poor and not necessary at all. Do you know what the best? Besides No Way Home, the best multiverse stuff so far is what if. Yeah, what if was fantastic.

Everyone thought what if was going to be combined into the multiverse of madness. Yeah, yeah. Which it was just kind of chaotic green screens. Yeah, yeah. And although the movie did almost make a billion dollars, by the way. Multiverse, yeah, I know. It did.

It made almost a lot of... Hey, look, Transformers. The new one? I'm saying all the Transformers have made four. Well, they've... Oh, yeah, that was a point, again, not this topic, but a point that I disagree with you so much

when you tweeted it. And it was this, oh, everyone says Michael Bay, he's horrible. Well, look, since he left, they've declined. Yeah, why do you think that is? Because each one, his movie, his last one was so bad with Stanley Tucci as Merlin. It was so bad that because of that, they didn't even put Bumblebee in the Transformers in the Bumblebee title to try to get away from that. And that hurt it, by the way. He was still the executive producer of that film.

Yeah, but Stephen Spielberg was too. I mean, how involved is he? Yes. But either way. Yeah. I get your point. Either way, what they need to do with Marvel is they need to have kind of a storyline that we're following. It seems like, we'll find out in October, it seems like Loki, season two, is the path there. Am I wrong?

Yeah, yeah. I think so. But again, though, Christian, we're caught in a weird space because of the Jonathan Major stuff. Right. Is he going to stay? Right. trials right beforehand. Right, the trials are a point. So is he going to stay as Kang or not? So even if we're going to get a cohesive thing

that maybe kind of resets everything and gets us going in one direction and we're all on board, we understand what's happening, now we're going to have to deal with whether Kang is going to stick around or not. And if he doesn't, then we'll have to add another element to this, which is somehow he was reborn as someone else to look like someone else.

And it's not the same as Don Chudeau walking in as Rhodes. This is your main bad villain for the next big Avengers movie. movies and shit. That one was dumb too. They asked the director, so when was Rhodes Scroll? Was that I think somewhere around you think you should know

homie? You should know. 100%. What are you talking about? You think. You should know. Like that's the kind of stuff. Like everybody should, it just seems like it's not, not everybody's locked in the way that they used to be. What do you think? It's more than just being stretched then. Don't you think? There was too much of it. Right. But what do you think is going on here that he is

dropping the ball quite so much? Remember though even though, even one or two TV shows. There were no TV shows in the height. Right. There were no TV shows. So they didn't have to like... And no agents of shield does not count. No, not that link in or Daredevil. It doesn't, it doesn't link in. So like, I think that the way that I always thought it's gonna, they do one show. They should do one show, maybe two, maybe one in the beginning of the year, one in the end. But don't just do the

whole Oprah. Everybody gets a TV show thing. Right, right. Echo doesn't need a TV show. Well, yeah. She doesn't need a TV show. And apparently from what they were saying about the actual show, it's not that, it's not that good. That's why they're dropping it all on the same day. Right. And then, oh yeah, they are definitely releasing it. And the other thing, like Ironheart, right? Yeah.

I think that they jumped the gun with Ironheart because Ironheart, popular in the comic book storyline, she didn't pop the way they wanted her to in that movie. No one's talking about Ironheart. And they put, and I didn't love, again, I thought the movie was good. didn't love that storyline because it felt like they were trying to set up a TV show. And it's like, let's actually put together stories that are going, like what they are doing if they do it right in Star Wars. With Mandalorian, this is something I always wanted to see. Mandalorian, season one, season two, whatever you feel about three, Boba Fett, Skeleton Crew, Asoka, probably season one and two. They're all going to lead to Filoni's movie.

Right. Do that. Let them all lead to something because I don't know, to seek, you saw secret invasion so you can, does it look like it, does it look like it's leading to anything? It's launching armor wars off of what happens with Cheeto in this film in that series. That's what's leading to. But the Scrawl stuff,

they pretty much handled by the end of secret invasion. And so it may pop up with the Marvels, but I think that's them closing the book on it in the Marvel. So it seemed like a waste. Yeah. And that's, well, that's, and that, I guess, and that's a way for us to transition into the Marvels. Because does that movie get put?

Because here's my reason why I think that if you don't figure out the strike by November, then you have to push it back. And the reason why I think, because this comes out in November, right? It's supposed to. The reason why is because I feel it's very similar to what we're talking about, Blue Beetle, and Ms. Marvel. The superhero part of this movie is not what they should be trying, even though it's Marvel. It's the chemistry of these three actors. Yes.

if it works and it plays, that's what's going to sell this movie. You need the three of them to be all over the circuit. Especially Amman Valani. Yes. And people love her. I love her. Look, Teona Paris is great.

Certainly there are people who defend Brie Larson and don't like Brie Larson. It depends on what camp you're in. But Amon Valani, universally beloved. Yes. And so there's an energy from her that's really great, and you need that young energy, especially if you're a studio. They don't care about us old fuddy dutty.

We're going to go. It's the young people they want to get in there. to hook into their universe, to watch multiple movies for the next few decades. And I think this is where you're 100% right, which is why you were right earlier with the Blue Beetle conversation. Jolam out of the Wiena, going on LAD Bible, going on all these different things, would be so fun to see him play with the rest of the cast, with Lopez. Like there would have been a lot of fun content that would have motivated people to go see Blue Beetle even more.

I think you're 100% right here. The ladies have to be front and center going on all these talk shows, going on all these YouTube channels to try to drum off interest in the movie. 100%. So we both don't think that it's going to wrap up. If the strike, what do you mean? The strike?

No, I don't think the strikes go. I think strikes go until 2024, if not longer, into the spring of 2024. So they've got to push this movie. They've got to push this movie. I guess so. Because, I mean, it's just, this is a, because Disney is not in the same place.

Like, D.C., even though nobody wants to lose money, they at least can go, well, let's see what happens with Superman. Right. They're already playing the game here. Like, if the Marvels doesn't do well in November, they need this movie to do well. What about Loki season two?

Do you push that? Are they, is there? I don't know if it's connected or not, right? Yeah, and I think that that's, I don't think necessarily because this is kind of going off through your point with the Jonathan Majors thing, right? Jonathan Major's trial is like September. Yeah.

And then Loki's October. Right. So I think that the benefit that, the strike gives Marvel and DC at this, excuse me, Marvel and Disney at this point, is that they can go, okay, let's say that Jonathan Majors is found guilty

and found like that they found this evidence against him and that he can't be in Kang anymore. Now they have enough time because if they're going to push the Marvels, if they're going to push out of this other stuff, they have time to set up their new Kang. Now the flip side, if he's

if they find all this evidence to where he's innocent and that there was stuff that there were information out there that we didn't have. And it turns out, no, he's able to do it. Then they can still formulate a plan now with him to say no. I think that actually, and I think Marvel and Disney actually handled the Jonathan Majors thing. Yes, I agree. I think that people were like, because right away they were saying,

when all the Ezra Miller stuff was going on, people were like, well, how come they're just judging Jonathan Majors? They didn't say shit. Yeah. They didn't fire him. They didn't do anything. The other places were like, we're not going to go. ahead and renew, we're not going to go forward with this movie right now that we have. Right.

Because the movies hadn't started filming yet. They didn't, they're like, they're doing the same thing. They're basically saying, let's see what happens in September. If we were wrong, they were going to go back on our knees pleading, saying, I'm sorry, and we'll give him his gig back and all that stuff. So that's what's going to happen, right? But as a business, whether you agree with it or not, they're just like, we're going to step away from it at the moment. Marvel's locked in. Yeah. Marvel's really locked in in contracts and all that stuff too, as far as like, they put this guy, he was the, he was the lead. He's the lead. guy. He's the new Thanos. So they're waiting to see and they didn't make, I think they handled it right so far. Yeah. But, you know,

this is what's going to happen in this trial, man. This trial's going to really set it and it gives the strike, gives them a little bit more time, I think. I think Marvel's, if it doesn't have any connection to Loki 2, will be pushed. But if it does have, then we might see both of them getting pushed, which would suck because I think we both want to... But it all depends, though, because if it doesn't have a

connection to Locke Season 2, the other option is that Disney may know and from a lot of people's reactions to the trailers may know that they don't have a good movie and they might just put this thing out, get past it. Yeah, yeah, get past it and then look forward to doing something else with this whole situation.

Deadpool 3 seems to be the one that's going to do the most. Oh, yeah. Because Deadpool 3 is rumored to have everybody in it. Right. And if you believe a lot of the rumors that Deadpool's going to essentially kill the Fox Marvel universe and then set up the new stuff

because this is where, and then this is a debate I'd love to have, I'm not debate. It's a conversation. You might be on the same page of me. You might not be. My thought process is, because in the real multiverse,

I've been so fascinated with, for a long time, multiverses, interdensions, like all the parallel universes for a long time. But now it's like, since Marvel and DC

started doing your movies all the time too, it's just like, oh yeah, is that, you like it? Because of the end game? No, I've been fascinated by the quantum physics

and all this kind of stuff. It's a big Oppenheimer fan, Chris. I was. I love, a love film. Did you like it? Yeah.

Four times now. Love that movie. Love that movie. But I think that the multiverse is a mess inside of the Marvel. And I think it was a big mistake. I think that once they wrap this thing up, you can spend 10 years just doing X-Men films and Fantastic Four. That's all you need.

Because with the same way that they did phase one, two, and three, you have a rogue movie, you have a Storm movie, you have a Cycop's movie, you have a Wolverine movie, and then you have the X-Men. That's the movie. And then you have a fan. Fantastic Four movie. You have a Doom movie. It's like, that's it. All these different side characters because they had success with Guardians and all this stuff too. That's not working.

Yeah. And Shung Chi, where's he been? Yeah, right. One movie. Yeah. He's been on the Barbies. That's what everyone said. I tweeted, I tweeted that out and I said, where is he? I was like, he hasn't been, you know, like he's, I know that it's, they don't know no one his second movie's coming out, but the other thing is, he hasn't even popped up in post credits. Right. It was this whole big thing with him and, Long has shown up more than Shang Chi. Yes. Yes. So I don't know, man. It's like, where do you think they should go after Secret Wars?

I think they should do exactly what Iger is doing, which is slow the F down, reassess everything, take it slow and figure out which are the ones you want to put a lot of time and attention and get the right creatives behind it, and then let Fige relax for a little bit so that he can spend a lot of his attention on these separate. projects and have some time in between them. I think Chapic is the one who won it because of streaming and COVID and all of that. All of these series at once, and the movies and tie them up.

And I think the aspirations were great, but clearly we see the results have not been good. So slowing things down, focusing on things. I hear your point. Certainly X-Men, Fantastic Warworks, but you're still got to have other characters here who are going to be connected to the Marvel Universe. And if you're going to come back with Tom Holland,

who is possibly going to come back, as he said, for the trilogy, I think that, Fourth. Yeah, and I said this years ago, I think even back on Collider Movie Talk, that I think eventually Tom Holland, Spider-Man is going to lead the Avengers. Because he did in the comics, right?

Right. And so, and they probably were lining up to Chala, Chad McBosman unfortunately passed. But if you go Ms. Marvel, people are not going to like that. And I think Spider-Man is the way to go to Tom Holland, because everybody loves to them. Yeah, and they were leading, it looked like they were leading towards, you know, Kate Bishop and

Ms. Marvel and all, but I think that... Right. Young Avengers, certainly. but doesn't mean Spider-Man can't still be because he's somewhat young. Agreed. In charge. But you can't get results off streaming shows. You've got to get results off movies.

Right. Now, there's no results on it right now because it's just so chaotic. Well, we talked about a lot, man. Yeah. We talked about a lot. So very curious what you guys think, man. As far as DC goes,

that's the first question. Who's had the better run in the last like five years? Is it, I guess, after end game, after a game. Because I guess with that question, people go, well, they did have no way home. So after no way home, after no way home, who had the better run? Very curious to hear what you guys think about that one. And same thing, I guess the future. Who's going to lead the future?

Is it going to be, is it going to be D.C.? Is it going to be Superman? Is it going to be James Gunn and Saffron? Or is Fike you going to turn it around, man? And it's phase six, seven and eight going to be exactly what we thought. I'd like to thank John Roka for being with today. John, you got your channel. Tell him where to go. Yeah, you go to Outlaw Nation there on the YouTube networks, at YouTube.com slash John Roka says. I've got my other podcast, the Hot Mike,

and the geek buddies that are out there for people to enjoy, and the Cinephiles, which is my big one, that we break down one classic or good movie every week or every couple of weeks for you all to enjoy. All right, so thanks for joining us here today again. Thank you, John. Thank you guys. And if you haven't already done it, guys, like I said,

we hit 90, now we need to hit 100. We're almost there. That's been the goal. And I think we can get there, about October, November, but we need your help. So make sure you hit that button, hit subscribe, get us there. And for John Roca, I'm me, you're you. See you on the flip side.

Bye.