The Kristian Harloff Show - Will the MCU keep The Punisher hardcore? | Jon Bernthal

Episode Date: March 10, 2023

Jon Bernthal is back as The Punisher in the MCU. Reports came in that the star of the Netflix seires will return as Frank Castle in the Daredevil Born Again series on Disney Plus. Will he still be the hardcore vigilante or will he be a tamer version for the Disney streaming service? Ultron returning in Armor Wars? A new report suggests that he might be. James Gunn says less than half of the slate was announced when they told the world about the upcoming DCU slate. This and more on today's episode of Big Thing Capes and Cowls with Winston A Marshall hosting the show and Coy Jandreau co-hosting! #punisher #thepunisher #mcu #marvel #DCU #jamesgunn  ATHLETIC GREENS: http://www.athleticgreens.com/bigthing Become a Patron!: https://www.patreon.com/TheBigThingShow OUR MERCH STORE IS LIVE: https://www.teepublic.com/stores/the-big-thing-kh-channel?ref_id=27393 FOLLOW KRISTIAN + FIND HIM ON CAMEO https://cameo.com/kristianharloff https://twitter.com/kristianharloff https://facebook.com/harloff https://instagram.com/kristianharloff AMAZON WISHLIST: https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/1KPH42T0TP0PG?ref=cm_sw_em_r_un_un_djbxgIW5ZQMMg SCHMOEDOWN ARCHIVE CHANNEL: https://www.youtube.com/c/TheMovieTriviaSchmoedownArchives Ask Kristian questions for next time! https://facebook.com/harloff Become a Patreon of the Schmoedown: http://patreon.com/schmoedown OTHER GREAT CONTENT: REVIEWS https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLSJdE28YyUT368qY7sfE0nKE4c04CqGvu TV REVIEWS https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLSJdE28YyUT1LU-t2Z9AD5UJDiWW4pS_E STAR WARS SHOW https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLSJdE28YyUT0XmfpbblkF9PY7uO2qhbN6 THE BIG THING PODCAST https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLSJdE28YyUT3KAwbzDsv6mdR-gwUiydQg

Oh, you weren't expected to see this face, were you? I feel like I did it the last time that I had to take over for Christian, you know, on like the main mic or whatever. I feel like I said the exact same thing, which is fine because, you know, he's busy. He's got things to do. So, of course, he let the kids play yet again. Coy's here. That's what's up. Brett's on the ones and twos.

We're in house. I like it. We're in house. We're in house. We're in house. Like we're not zooming. No, we're in the space. We're here.

It's great. We're here. In house, in studio. No Christian. Absolutely. But, well, that's not true. We do have to do a few things. Like, first of all, I do have to point out the fact that we're on Spotify.

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It don't cost you nothing but a quick click. We're trying to get to 70K, and we are so, so close. But for now, we're going to talk about everybody's favorite vigilante. And no, I'm not talking about Batman. I'm talking about the one that may be a jigolo in one universe and a gun-totent, vengeful, mother F, and another. So let's do it, baby, capes and cows. We own. Sickest intro in the biz.

I'm Wednesday, Marshall, aka the Swaggy Blurred. Holding down the host chair for today, but of course, I'm here with my partner in crime, the Spider-Man, or the Deadpool to my Spider-Man.

Wow, Miles and Deadpool have got to be like a really weird combo. I can't imagine the meeting. Like, how uncomfortable would that be for everybody? Because he's like, you're a little spidey, huh? Yeah. And then Miles is like, I'm uncomfortable.

Like, I don't think Miles would even want to meet. Well, especially because Miles, I know, is by. Right. So, deadpool would lean into that. He would hit on him. So hardcore. to be like, I'm just turned 21.

Just be easy. Because they aged them up recent and that'd be a little less like that. Just be easy. Do not Leo this. Because you know Wade hits on Peter or Spider-Man all the time. So like Miles in that like more spelt suit, his colors, black and red, no blue, a little bit of popping. We're talking about this today. I'm very excited.

I can't believe that that's how we decided to start the show. A little bit of hitting on Miles. Little little commentary. You know he's, Peter's a black cat in the comics right now. There's a little Alicia action going on. And I always like their relationship. because she always seemed to me like representation of his letting go

of responsibility, like the freedom of what you can be as a vigilante. So after all these these like horrible things that happened to Peter, I always thought it would be interesting if he landed with Black Cat as a way to be like I can be a guy as well as I was how it was so interesting that how Marvel and DC from time to time really can just mirror each other. So it's like, you know what? We're going to take the

top defender of quote unquote New York and we're going to have him date a cat burglar-esque anti-hero villain. that like kind of whoops his ass but also like loves him and he's kind of into it the black latex and he's like i support you know crime only right here i just i'm literally imagining like me and you now going out in the streets and just living mirrored versions of each other's lives you know like you go out like a great date with your lady and have a good time and all of a sudden

like i'm serious and then like a touch of relationship we come in i was just like you out here getting gains and i'm out here getting gains you know what i'm saying like it's just it's just it's just a full i'm just a full i'm just I'm training to be in Punisher Season 6. Same, same, same, different, different, but same, same, same. Same, same. Dude, this news, like, maybe my favorite announcement since we saw Toby's Dick bring back the three Spider-Man.

Like, this might be my favorite. Sir. God, this is. It might be. This is why Christian didn't let us do this show by ourselves. This is, like, as an adult. He's like, I need to be in the room. Well, if you're wondering what we're talking about, y'all, it has been confirmed that

John Burtonthal will be returning as the Punisher for Daredevil Born Again. Now, the news broke yesterday, well, it's Friday. So it broke Wednesday that he would be returning as Frank Castle, aka The Punisher for Daredevil Born Again. According to comic book movie, there's been talk of John Burtonthal potentially reprising his role of the Punisher for the now-defunct Netflix shows for quite a while. But the rumors really began to pick up steam following the MCU's debut of Charlie Cox

and Vincent Donofrio as Daredevil and Kingpin, respectively. The news finally broke that Frank Castle will indeed be making his presence felt in the MCU, and Berthol has responded to the announcement by sharing the following image on his Instagram account of him, toning him to, it looks like those were the Uzzies he was using at the time, or the Tech Nines, actually, and just kind of going off. Now, he's going to be playing his role, once again as Castle for the Disney Plus series, Daredevil Born again, as we mentioned before, but we don't have any details yet on how he'll be reintroduce. Now, Burtonthal has previously made it clear that he has no interest in playing a

watered down version of the Punisher, which may indicate that this show will have a bit more edge to it than the streamer's usual MCU output. So, Coy, you hear the news. Burtonthal's back, bro. How are you feeling, man? So I think this is as much a reaction to either the bad press that they're going through or the actual show is reacting. So it could be a matter of let's announce John Bernthal. It's been locked from the jump. And let's get some good press out there. Or it could be a matter of, hey, we looked at what we've been doing.

We listened to the fans. We're actually going to retool a lot of what Daredevil is foundationally. We're going to change the show. Because I do believe that John Bernthal has too much integrity as a man, an actor, and as punisher to come back and do something he doesn't believe in. Absolutely. Like there's no reason that he's set. Like, there's nothing that he needs to do.

do. Like John Bernthel's in a good spot with his career. So unless the script is good and unless like it's doing frank justice. Yeah. Because I think that honestly season one was exceptional like up there with Daredevil all three seasons. But season two was a bigger drop down for me than any of the other seasons. Like as far as just like

an A plus down to a C feels way worse than a BBC. I need to go revisit because I didn't watch Daredevil 3, Jessica Jones 3 or I only got through like four episodes of Punisher just because I don't remember what was going on. but I just got distracted. It was really good. It was like a C plus B minus,

but I thought season one was like an A plus. So, yeah, I just got off track. So I need to go back and visit it. But I will agree that all of those castings were really well done. With the exception of Iron Fist. His was, in my opinion,

probably the best. I think he probably nailed his character. Not that Charlie Cox and Vincent, you know, and Mike Coulter and Kristen Ritter didn't do it. They did. They really did. he just really embodied Frank Castle for me so, so expertly.

I don't really know. I feel like Charlie Cox, Vincent Xanafrio, Christian Ritter, they're all, my culture, are all beautiful representation adaptations, translations of the character. They all, they all do a character, whereas John Bernthal, I feel like, is actually ripped from the page in a unique way. His nose is broken the way that John Demeter Jr. draws him. Like, he's literally almost so much the punisher that he's one of the few actual. where I have to kind of shake that. Like, I look at Downey Jr.

And I'm able to see Downey Jr. Because I loved him in Chaplin and, you know, the other, the kiss kiss, Peg Bang and like those things. But I still sometimes when I hear him, Tony Stark happens and I have to work at it. And I think Bernthal is a similar level of casting as Downey, as Ryan Reynolds, as Liz Olson. There's like a certain like, oh my God, you're the character. I get you. But to be honest with you, all of those characters, I actually think that.

they, how do I put it? They, they don't, I agree that they don't match necessarily what they were in the books, but I don't think you're going to get any closer than what you see there. So I don't even necessarily translate it to a, they're doing their own rendition. I just genuinely was like, okay, like that, that matches up directly because I think they did the same thing with Samuel L. Jackson, because prior to him coming out in Ironman, that's when they started, if I remember correctly, the ultimate verse of Nick Fury. became the black ball.

We're Brent Hitch, Drew Mastick. Exactly. Versus the older white dude with the... The Hasselhoff. Exactly, exactly, exactly. But I agree with you. I think that this has been known for a while by the MCU. I think that they very much had this in their back pocket.

I think it would have been a much stronger reveal in a hype machine to have said nothing. And you wait until maybe the last trailer and you just see like the, you just see like the logo coming out of like the shadows being like I guess we're gonna have to kill some of it. I don't know whatever. That's why I think they need like this is a year out. I think they need some good press. And I think there's no better press than the goat.

But that's what I agree with you is I think that that would they bought them some time with She-Hulk when Charlie Cox did show up. They tried to use that way too early because you still had like four or five episodes before you even showed up longer than that actually. That was the issue is like it became the where's Daredevil show to the point where they had to put it in the show. Absolutely. And so, like, you had both that.

But you noticed when that happened in the same way that with Hawkeye, the minute Vincent DiNafrio showed up there, the minute Charlie Cox showed up in No Way Home, what it did to energize people. Yeah. I agree that while Ant Man is still doing fine, it did not do what they wanted it to do. I honestly think kind of a little bit of a nose dive

and people are starting to hit the panic button. And I think that they tried to be like, okay, calm down. I think it's an overreaction of people reacting. I don't think Ant Man is in a comfortable spot, but I don't think that one movie not making a lot of money and maybe even losing a little money, because it might, is a, oh my God, we've made 37 of these, and they're all failing.

Like, we've had way more Goodwill built up to this point, and I think they just needed to go like, let's plug the hole. No, no, no, I agree with you, but I remember just while we have felt how we felt about Phase 4, as a general hole, people have just not taken to it and for Ant Man not to feel like it hit it out of the park to start base five. I think that you're at that point now.

You're in a relationship, you know, and like your girl's like, your girl's like, stop doing this thing, stop doing this thing. That's the last time I'm going to tell you to stop doing this thing. We're at that point now.

If they have another situation where it is so mixed, it's not bringing the dollars it's meant to. That's why the morals is high stakes. Because Guardians is going to feel like James Gone leaving and it's going to feel like

the end of the guardians. And it's going to do well, I think almost no matter what, and I think it's going to be exceptional. no matter what. Yeah, yeah. But then the Marvels is kind of phase five movie two. Yes.

To me. No, no, no, I agree with you. And that's the other thing, just to that point, y'all, is that, like, I'm not saying that, like, Marvel is about to just fully implode. That's not, that we're, like Koi has said, we have built way too much of this up at this particular point for, it is too big to truly fail. But if you start losing this ability to actually push back on a lot of the filmmakers that are like, it's not cinema.

It's not art. It's like, whatever. Now it's actual dribble, and you're not ever crossing the billion dollar marker again. You're still hitting high millions, but you're never crossing that billion again. They have kind of built a lot of where they are now off of what this is doing. You think about the Disneyland and Disney World expansions, how a lot of those are more Marvel-based than anything. You brought in Avengers campus, but you added like the Guardians rides. There's two of them, the escape one, and then there's the rewind time one or whatever it is.

like you are continuing to use Marvel as your anchor point right now, especially because your live action Disney stuff is doing okay. And Star Wars is at least two years out from the movie. And Star Wars ain't ready. And Celebrations taking a year off, I think, to recalibrate everything. So Disney is putting a lot on Marvel. I agree. But if you look at this announcement, it's the best possible one.

Like I'm more excited for Bernthal coming back than Downeyer and Chris Evans coming back. No, no, no. I agree with that. Because that comes with plot problems. Well, I mean, it does with that. really, remember, you got a multiverse. Yeah, but I think that, well, we've talked about how that undermines the arc that was the first three phases. I don't do it.

I don't disagree, but the way they come back, they can't come back in the same capacity. Yeah, but if they come back in human flesh, it's going to feel like, oh, they're not, you're not going to, there's no way a human being that looks at Downey Jr. goes, oh, but that's a different Iron Man and feels that in their fucking soul. I disagree only because I think about multiverse of madness, even though that's not my favorite movie. Literally, John Cresensky, just chill in there. Literally, Black Bolt. That was played by a different actor. No, no, no, no, I understand that.

But like Black Bolt being there, the same actor from Inhumans. But you didn't have a lot of investment in humans, I assume. I watched the whole thing because my home boy was Gorgon in it. Sure, sure. But it's not the same as iron. No, no, no, I get that. But I'm saying if it's a capacity where it's like, same with Patrick Stewart, they're here for a minute, but they did not stay.

So, like, again, we're all anticipating potentially them showing up in Secret Wars, where we do get a variant of Tony. and we only get him for like a movie and some change at most, but that would make sense. Oh, it'll make canon sense, but I think plot-wise, it'll undermine the three-act structure we had through three phases of film to the point where when I saw Patrick Stewart in the movie,

I didn't go, oh, that's a different one than the one that I saw Diane Logan. I went, man, they needed Patrick Stewart. Like, I didn't feel like it was a variant. I felt like this movie needed Xavier, so they didn't care about him dying. Like in the comics and something comes back, you're not like, whoa. Well, no, but that's the thing.

I don't think, I don't, personally, I don't think you undermine it as long as it's not permanent. It needs to be very temporary. It needs to be a situation where it's like, or a completely different role. So if you would, you would have the theory that the AI for Riri will ultimately be Tony similar to like what happens. And it won't feel tangible. Right. And that's a key. Right.

And then you're kind of getting to have your cake and eat it too. And that's something that's straight from the comics as well. And Mr. Rogers, Stan, did I say my Stan Lee St. Rogers thing? Mm-mm. Having, having, uh,

as we get old man Steve, start through slowly through movies, make the Steve Rogers age. The old one, the 90s one, look more and more like Stan Lee. So that way all the Stan Lee cameos are canon as Steve Rogers looking over his people through time.

That's actually hilarious. So every time you saw Stan, it was Steve looking out for everybody. That's actually really funny. So you're just like, over the course of five movies starts a deep fake, like Chris into Stan. That's crazy.

I mean, I don't, I don't hate the plan. And when they talk, it's Steve, nobody looked like at 90. So it's a way for him to like check in on the Avengers through time. And that fixes a lot of people being mad that he stopped like checking in because he's been there since Stan's been there.

Well, talking about, you know, more checking in and kind of seeing where people are at. There was another story kind of tied to Daredevil Born Again that Eldon Henson and Deborah Ann Wool are not expected to return as Foggy Nelson and Karen Page. Now, obviously we were talking just now about John Burtenthal and Frank Castle this again from comic book movie being in Born Again. but it looks like two other supporting characters from the now to Funk Nightvick show will not be joining. According to THR's Aaron Couch, Deborah Ann Wool and Eldon Henson,

who played Karen Page and Foggy Nelson, respectively, are not on the roll call for the Marvel series. It is unclear whether those characters will be recast. So the rumors that both actors were set to reprise the roles did the rounds last year, but it may have been yet another case of internet grifters throwing possibilities at the wall to see if it would stick. Now, both Foggy and Karen are pretty significant parts

to the MacMernock's life. in the comics, although they don't feature in every story, and even so it would be seen as a somewhat unusual move if they didn't factor in a born again in some capacity. So they may well be recast. So again, Coy, I'll just start off in the fact that this bums me out. I appreciate what Henson did, but I am a massive DeBron Woolf fan. I have been that way since I, you know, was first introduced to her on True Blood way back in the day, like I'm madly in love with this woman. But she has been so key. Her and Rosario Dawson have been so key to like kind of being the connecting bridge for a lot of these characters in these Netflix shows, which has been really cool. But obviously been a huge part of,

you know, Cox's Murdoch and how he's operated through the world. So you hear that the two of them aren't coming back. You got Bertenthal, you got Dinafrio, but you don't have these two. How do you feel? Honestly, I think they're coming back. I, this is a year out, and I imagine they'd be in at least a couple of the arcs, but in a capacity where they could hide them. I think Bernthal's going to be shooting outdoor scenes and they had to get ahead of it because they're about to start shooting. I think that Debraan Wall and Foggy

are going to be in courtrooms and therefore you don't have to show them. So that's what you do in that last trailer. You don't have that reveal. That way you have some pocket aces. And I honestly think that if you recast them, it'll alienate the experience of the excitement of bring back the other characters. Because I understand that they're saying that

they might not be the Charlie Cox of that universe and that, you know, this is a different daredevil. But even Charlie Cox's statements on it feel like they're navigating it in real time. Like, I don't know how firm they are on that. And I definitely enjoyed Charlie Cox's different, more comedic, Mark Wade, acrobatic flavor of Daredevil more than I enjoyed DeNafrio's more comic-y take. So I think right now Marvel's going, okay, people were mixed on phase four. What worked, what did it? When we're going into phase five, when we're making an 18-episode series, we're going to keep what's worked.

And we're not going to keep what hasn't. I could see reacting to the negativity of Ant Man and the negativity of Eternals, which I love, but the negativity of some of these films that they were doubling down on, what if this allows us to get a darker overall R-rated TVMA or approaching it? Because they're like, hey, this audience was huge on Netflix. We're now 17 years into the MCU by this point. So, or 16, I think it'll be. But 16 years in, that means that, you know, 4-year-old are 20.

So you make this show dark, and you always, allowed the show to be the thing because Punisher coming back, this could spell a different born again than they had even announced a D-23. Because they are filming it in real time. No, no, no, you're right. I do think that's the one thing that Disney has been very careful about ever giving us any R-rated

installments. And I know we're getting Deadpool 3 in that regard. But just in the fact that since it all connects and part of what has made it successful is they have found, while it may live in that, you know, 18 to 30 male category, they have found a franchise that is able to reach everyone. You're selling the toys to the kids and they're getting involved.

You've got older folks being like, oh, that was pretty good. Like, you know, you got boyfriends taking their girlfriends. You got the girlfriends being like, you're going to watch this with me too. And it'd be like, I don't even like that. I just watch football. Right, right. Like, everybody comes to these movies. And so, and watches these shows at this point.

So there's always a weird line where it is easier for adults. to go and watch a Miss Marvel that might be more geared towards teenagers or young adults than it is to try and convince a parent to let their child go watch something super violent and grotesque but it's still apparently vital for them to see.

So like I think we're going to get a dark daredevil. I think we're going to get that opportunity to see some, you know, more intense stories. But I can't imagine they're going to go full throttle at least if they do, it would probably be in moments that, like, aren't vital, if that makes sense. I think the Hulu thing that we're hearing is not a coincidence timing-wise. It sounds like Hulu might become a universal company with Disney relinquishing their shares

in order to get more and Hulk fully. And if that happens, then all of the movies on Hulu have to go to Disney Plus. They're going to release Hulu to Universal. So as a trade. So wait a minute. So you're talking about a two T, a trade here. A trade happening. We're going to give you our star quarterback if you give us two first round picks.

Holy crap. And if that happens, where to all the movies on Hulu have to go? Disney Plus, they're streaming service. You're going to have R-rated TV. You're going to have, I mean, Elway Sunny is going to be on Disney Plus. Look at the Boston Strangler poster. It's Boston Strangler Disney Plus logo at the bottom. We're starting that direction.

It's weird to see. Like, you're knightly under Boston Strangler. I'm like Disney. But I do think that Deadpool is the gateway and Deadpool's right after this. What if we get all of these darker things on this network, then why not have it be an R-R-R-R-R-R-R-R. If they have already shows on Disney Plus. Have the type-in thing like we already have to do.

Like put our age in. And then like if you look at the Disney Plus shows, they're not nearly as connected yet as, as they said they were going to be. Look at Doctor Strange. Like we didn't have the zombie strange from what if, like we thought it was. Well, so I mean, Loki's obviously connected, but like.

Yeah, I think we built too much into what if because what if was supposed to be kind of its own. We were told it was supposed to be the connected. Yeah, no, I know. We were told. But think about what, Miss Marvel is going to the Marvel's. That's the first real big connection. Loki connects.

But, like, if you watch Andy Guantamania didn't see Loki, you don't miss it. Well. He who remains is good to connect for us, but, like, you don't not understand who Kang is without that he remains. I agree with you. You didn't have to see Loki. It's essentially, it's essentially like, did you ever play Metal Gear Solid? Yeah. Did you ever play five, the Phantom Pain?

It didn't. Okay. So they had, so they had, so you got to play. And it's very fun. So they did a, they did a prequel game that they released that had about like four hours of con. It was about a four hour little mini. campaign, I was called Ground Zero's, I believe. If you don't play Ground Zero's, Phantom Pain is still totally fine.

But if you play Ground Zero's, the amount of just like little things that, like, you're set up for to genuinely go is, is monumental. And I think that's the same thing with Loki. You didn't need to watch it, but what the context that it provides you, the little energy boost that it provides you going into Ant Man Quantum Man is vital. But that might be the R-rated stuff, is that DLC. Like, if you have Deadpool, you know, for reference the X-Men, but not introduce the X-Men,

then it's going to enhance your X-Men experience. There's no way they're going to bring in the first new X-Men in Deadpool, likely, because that's going to be rated R, and that would alienate the X-Men audience that's going to be PG-13. Right. But if you've got certain things happen like Hugh Jackman, passing the torch to just Wolverine, the new Wolverine, or you've got certain other things that occurred that set up the X-Men world,

that would be the D-L-C, that would enhance the world. And likewise, Daredevil could be an R-rated. This is Pipe Dream. But Daredevil being an R-rated show might allow a more enhanced whatever's next that maybe kids can't watch. Well, you want to talk about enhancements, bro. I'm going to tell you how you can enhance yourself, y'all. And that right now, it brings us to our sponsor of the show. AG1 by Athletic Greens, y'all.

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I keep packets in my car so I can just throw it in a water bottle, shake it up, and, like, be good to go. So it's been good. It's smart, man. So, yeah, definitely please. Check out AG1. Absolutely. So let's hop into our next story.

This is another MCU rumor that's coming through, but this one for Armor Wars, we know that used to be a show, but is now being moved into a movie. The rumor is that James Spader could be returning as Ultron in the Armor Wars film. Now, in the comic books, Ultron,

this is again by comic movie. Ultron was created by Hank Pim and ended up becoming one of the Marvel Universe's greatest villains. And no matter how many times he was defeated, the sinister android always found its way back into the world. Ultron even served as a cosmic batty for a time against the Guardians of the Galaxy. Now, taking all of that into account, it's hard not to feel like he might have been wasted in the MCU

despite being a fantastic villain in 2015's Avengers Age of Ultron, making him a one-and-done batty closed the door on all manner of storytelling opportunities. And again, we never did see the vision kill his father. Now, with Vision Quest and Armor Wars on the horizon, theories have been running rampant for a while that Ultron could return in the not-too-distant future. According to information obtained by moderators in the Reddit Marvel Studio spoilers page,

James Spader is indeed set to reprise the role of Ultron in Marvel Studios' Armor Wars movie. Now, original plans called for that to be a Disney Plus series as we mentioned before, with the decision later made that the story was big enough for theaters. Ultron's return sounds about right then, and it's incredibly exciting to think about the many ways that he could factor in this story. Ultron is fresh in all of our minds following his what-if takeover and his threat to the entire multiverse. And after successfully inhabiting what would become the vision's body in the MCU, he acquired the Infinity Stones and used them to fight the watcher and almost destroyed everything if it weren't for Captain Carter's teams. What do they call them?

The Guardians of the Multiverse? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, without the Guardians of Multiverse, kind of stopping stuff. So only time we'll tell whether Spader really does come back as Ultron, but we're keeping our fingers crossed that it does happen. Coy, if we do actually end up with James Spader back as Ultron, what is this putting for you on like a level of like one to 10?

Is this like a full on 10? Like, holy crap, I cannot wait. Like it's always the Ultron's back? Or is this like a one? Like, okay, I guess I don't give it anymore. Arm Wars was that like an eight for me. Okay. Because to me it's like an eye.

Iron Man 4. To me, it's Roady finally getting his time in the sun. That dude was supposed to have a number of spinoff movies and just didn't get them. And I feel like legacy characters when they're planted that early are really special. So he's like the guy I want to see. So for me, Armourers is already pretty high. And I also want to see your same Rockwell back more than anything.

And I feel like that's going to happen there. But I would put this closer with 10 with the Ultron because I think James Spader is one of the villains that was the most underutilized hard stop. And I think Marvel's very good at pulling back the villains that they hear from the fans weren't used well. I think Taskmaster coming back in Thunderbolts is us getting a Taskmaster fix.

I think there's certain villains that we've seen have been like, come on. Even spoiler alert for Quantumania, it's been out for three weeks. I think that I didn't like Yellowjacket that much, but I love how Yellowjacket landed because of Corey Stoll's performance as Modoc. So I think not only did we recently have it in what if, not only did they use Modoc, I mean, Ultron in that VR experience at Marvel, which brought us back two years before. we've had a lot of Ultron,

and this would make it an age of Ultron instead of like the week of Ultron. Because like Avengers Week of Ultron was not a long enough age. And like I didn't feel that ominousness. Even though Spader's performance was incredible, the character didn't get to flex enough. And I know he did a lot of things,

but right now we're more topical about AI than ever. If you've got Ironheart coming in, you've got the tech versus magic wars coming with Doom, you've got all these things with Reed Richards. It'd be a really good time for the conversation about how much AI is used in Wakanda, how much it's used in New York. And I think Ultron allows for a,

different kind of techie scope, and it would allow for armor wars to have this, like, paranoid undercurrent in addition to just like Sam Rockwell button hits. Well, and on top of the fact that if you have a situation where we do end up ultimately getting Tony Stark as an AI, because I think that that's the way that you, again, I truly believe that's the way that you bring back Robert Donnie Jr. without really forcing him to be back. And sacrificing, in my opinion, a perfect ending. Right. And on top of the fact that, like, you look at Paul Bettney, obviously, who is Jarvis for the longest time before, becoming vision, it's still a very engaging.

engaged role, but like you're all VR. Right. A VO, excuse me. So you can genuinely just kind of come in, do your lines when you need to do your lines and be out. And what is sentience if White Vision is separate from vision? And what is sentience if the ship of Theseus metaphor gets brought into Ultron? Right. If you're talking

about sentience in the, how many original parts do you need, remain in order to stay whole, and you've had a character stripped apart, but also multiply it a thousand times, what is Ultron to Ultron and what is White Vision to Ultron? Is that his son? Are they cousins? No, no, no, for sure.

What I was going to say is I think it then becomes interesting, because remember the one thing that Ultron and the MCU hate him more than anything is his own fathers. He hates Tony Stark with a violent passion, which in the comics, if I remember, even though it was technically Hank Pym's brainchild, wasn't it, the working of Tony and Hank working together with him? It was Hanked as the father, and later on Ultron took over Hank's body. There's like a half-siborke, but Tony was integral in, like, the tech allowing for his birth. So Tony's more like the mother.

Right. He was the womb of the tech. Which in this, the first. flip side of that was they made it, Tony essentially played the role of Hank, and then Banner played the role of Tony as far as like the support. And then also Thor was the, you know, you needed the power of Thor. So Thor was the sperm. So you had a whole triplet family.

You got a threesome. He was the spurner. He was the thruple. I would assume, I would call him more like the surrogate. I mean, you need that little zap. But also that was for vision. He didn't zap Ultron. Right, but without vision, you don't have ultra.

Like, oh, no, you're right. You're right. No, no, no. You're getting it back. You're getting it totally back. I'm on that. What's our old sponsor, Blue? I was going to say he was like the adoption agency.

Yeah, that's true. You know what I'm saying? The stepfather. Because the vision supplied. Chris is, you'll love this. This is, oh, God. God, I hate us. But I just genuinely think, I agree.

Ultron is very similar to Brainiac on the D.C. side of things. Obviously, they have very similar, this idea where one of the main characters. There's a close tying to it. obviously Brainiac was not invented by Clark, by Calell. Depending on what story you're talking about, there's parts that Jorrell had some

sure, which I never loved. It's very Osborne basement Spider-Man. We got all the sinister six down here. So regardless of when you go, but the point is what Brainiac is a Superman, what Ultron essentially is to you know, both Iron Man, Ant Man, like the Avengers as a whole,

he's that technological threat that you always think, yeah, we finally got rid of it. No, he wrote one backup, backup, backup, backup code, and he just has a brand new plan to, like, ruin everything. And I think we need that with villains, because the Marvel problem in the beginning was they always killed their villains. And we've fixed a lot of that, but at the same time, if you can bring back one that recurs in the comics

and logically recurs, how do you get rid of internet? How do you get rid of code? Well, my favorite, that's the thing. Did you watch either Avengers or Smodiest Heroes or Avengers Assemble, both the animated shows? So like the fact that an Avengers assembled, like Thanos comes. They have this whole saga of them dealing with the Infinity Stones. They finally fight Thanos at full power and whatnot.

And I believe it wasn't Vision. Tony had a robot that his dad made for him, Arsenal, that was supposed to like that was holding on to the stones because it could deal with infinite power. But there was a backdoor that Ultron happened to write his code into. And the minute he got the stones, he goes, oh, You screwed up Tony because it's me, Ultron. And then he's just like Ultron World. And it's like, oh my God, like. And that's the character.

You can have those moments and they're not out of nowhere. They're not like DeS. Machinas. Ironically, the ghost in the machine is Ultron. So it's not a DASM machina. But it works for the story because I would like to see Armour Wars have an undercurrent of threat. Also that adds into the paranoia that we're going into. We've got secret invasion. We've got Thunderbolts.

We've got Miss Marvel's end scene. We need that undercurrent of the world that hates and fears them. We need people to distrust heroes. Ultron would allow for that. I mean, again, like you said, if you end up in a situation, you have White Vision kind of running around right now. There's a very easy way that, like, if we get engaged with White Vision, if we somehow are using that to eventually get regular Viz back at some point, that again, Viz is part Jarvis, but he's part Ultron code as well. So, like, there's no way that there's no reason that you couldn't have pulled that out and inadvertently rebooted Ultron into a new version. So I'm excited about it one way or the other, man.

I can't wait to see what we ultimately end up doing. So we got, we're going to do what? I know you have to go soon, right? But you can do one without me. You have it. So go ahead. Okay. You can do this one, mine.

All right, I'm going to give you guys a story straight from my phone. I saw a tweet that blew my mind. Responding to a tweet with a KR1S1-9302, if that is your real name, he asked how much of the chapter one slate did you tell us about? James Gunn. Shockingly, James Gunn responded, and I think these three words are as big a three words as I am inevitable in the MCU. In the DCU, James Gunn is inevitable, because he responded less than half. That is bananas. I don't have a bunch of stuff to read about it because those three words are what matter. Three words, less than half. He revealed 12 properties, which means if he's being cheeky like he was

about January and it reveals at January 31st, even if that's cheeky. That means 25 properties. If you double that plus one, just to make it less than, 25 properties in Chapter 1 is bananas. So is that Chapter 1 being a five-year saga? Oh, I see what you did there. I was going to assume that it was like 26, because if you had 12, okay, put one, you're at 13, then double it.

But it depends on what you could literally be less. You could double that one. Because if you cut 25 and a half. Nobody is here for, so we're just going to go back to what you were talking about. but I give me some math but if you think about it there was a number of things that were brought up like we have been told about this themascara

like Amazon show we don't know if Wonder Woman's involved in it because it's supposed to be before if I remember correctly before she actually leaves the island so whether or not she's around I assume Wonder Woman is one of the new 13 plus that's what I'm thinking so that's a big one I think Zatana's in there I wouldn't be surprised with that we don't have any news about yes we still have the Aquin movie

coming out, but we don't really know what's going on. So maybe that's the thing. There have been the rumors of Lobo. There's been rumors of static shock, like before Gunn came in, so whether or not that's potentially happening one way or the other, there's also new static comics that are really good right now. And that's not a coincidence because they've even said the comics are going to be more tied in than ever.

I think static is, I'd put like an 85, 90%. Like I'd put static as high as Zatana and the magic element. If some people are going to try and like be like, Oh, my God, it'll be about black shit. If I guess there's a one swear, it's deep enough in the episode, we should be right. As the white guy today, I'm excited for static shock. But, but, thank you.

But I, but I just mean in the sense it would behoove, it would behoove D.C. To lean on those super popular, non, like, standard white guy characters. Because, again, look at what Black Panther did. Yeah. You know what I mean? I know what Creed just did.

Well, obviously. But I, like, look at what, Creed's numbers while things are in a weird spot. I think the industry is weirder now than it was when Black Panther 1 came in. No, no, no. So I think Creed is a real testament to, hey, make an incredible movie

about voices that need to have their voices amplified and is a story that I, like, Coy, wants to see a hundred times because it's important to me, but it's even more important to people that aren't. No, no, no, no. I agree with you. I was just even thinking just within the superhero scope.

Oh, that's just in the sense that like, regardless of what you want to say about Captain Marvel, whether you liked it or not, it still did a billy. Sure. Let's be real about that. So you've learned, any smart studio exec has learned

that this is a game that everyone wants to be a part of. So it would only behoove you to look at those characters that will bring everyone in period, especially these characters that have built a name for themselves and is only going to further

bring an audience, every button to the seat. So then when you do decide to eventually bring a Justice Society or Justice League, back, everybody's there because they're like, yo, that's my dude, that's my dude, that's my girl, that's my girl. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, it would only be smart for them to do that.

I don't think you come out of the gate with it. I think that that was smart to save that for, let's see how this first stuff goes, because you did include a Superman. You included a Batman with a Robin because we've been asking for that since the Schumacher stuff. We've been asking for a Robin and it never came to fruition. Two green lanterns, one of which is John Stewart, but I do think it's really smart to come out of the gate with like, hey, we know you want lanterns, not lantern, and also we're going to do

a show and make it long form. And on top of that, regardless of how you feel one way or the other about, you know, the end of Snyder's Justice League, having Martian Manhunter, I think is a huge thing, too, that people would be wanting to see at some point. And that, again, we haven't announced it yet, but there's always the room for that to come in a little bit later, you know what I mean? Do you think it's 25 property? We're just going to use 25, it's a nice clean number.

If it's 25 properties, do you think it's 25 properties over five years? Or do you think we literally get monthly DC between TV and film? I think the five years are going to be the 12 he's announced. I think that he's just saying that chapter one will not close until we do another whatever. So I think what you're going to get is as you're getting closer to the end of that 12, maybe around like 10, then it's like, well, you know, we're kind of wrapping up stuff. So what's next you say? Like, you finish Brave and the Bold?

You finish Woman of Tomorrow? Like, what do we do now? Boom. And then here it is like here's the most stuff. You think they don't reveal any more until these start popping out. I think it would be super stupid. I think part of what has bought James Gunn a lot of grace right now is the fact. Sorry, the dude got in here.

Always a moment. Is the fact that you did not overload people. Because if things don't go right, how do you wiggle out of it? You already see how Marvel is attempting to make a pivot because they announced so much. And then they're like, okay, we're prematurely ending phase four. because it wasn't supposed to end with and I really think they had a lot of faith in Ant Man kicking off things with Kang

and now they're like oh the thing we put our bets on Did you watch the video I sent you? Which one? I sent one to you and Christian Oh the guy's points. Yeah yeah yeah I liked most of them Okay well but including like specifically how they were saying It seems like they really retooled Ant Man

knowing that they were making this phase four, phase five kind of pivot Yeah They seems like they really retooled it to be like We really need Leon Kang right now If we give them their big bad, then, like, maybe they'll feel sometimes. And obviously, Jonathan Majors was phenomenal. Yeah, that was an issue. Right.

But, but it was very interesting how that story originally seemed to, like, based off of what he was, you know, guessing, how it seemed to kind of line up originally. Yeah. This big pushback between Cassie, because it even felt like, and I agree, it did feel like a situation where it would have made more sense for Hope and Scott to be trapped. and then you give Cassie something to do to try and save her parents essentially, her dad and her stepmom. It would have been good if that movie ended in a way where there was any consequence going forward beyond.

Absolutely. Because like the issue is if you watch most Marvel movies, you do need to have seen some of them before. Yes. But this one, which is supposed to be the kickoff and introduce her Big Bad, I don't think there's any single event that occurs where you need to have seen this movie,

especially if you've seen Loki. And that's not good to kick off a phase. So I think they are really, realigning. I think that our daredeable conversation ties into that. But in the DC vein, I also think the strength of what James Gunn is doing is I don't think they're going to need to have watched everything. I think there's going to be a universe that shared, but also there are going to be things like the Batman and Joker, but other things that haven't even been revealed to be out of continuity elseworlds. So like, you know, we've talked about how the authority is going to be in universe. I guarantee there's going to be stuff that are in these unreleased numbers that aren't within the same continuity as Batman, etc. That's so exciting. I think Swamp Thing might be really. I think there might be things that are surprising people because if he got to make the Suicide Squad rated R when they were under the old authority unintended,

then there's no way they're not going to experiment with our rated stuff. And that's going to push Marvel, and that's going to then push DC, and that's going to push this slate. So I think we might get a movie or two announced at Comic-Con, but I don't think it's going to be the other half. No, I don't think the other half, too. I think just part of it.

And I know you got to run. I got a buggy. So, hmm, there's one last story. Do you, how, you got to be there at 1230, right? I got to be on the other side of town at 1245. I can do two more minutes. Okay, we'll do this quick then. So there is one more story that came out that Avengers King Dynasty writer reveals whether the X-Men are going to appear in an upcoming event movie.

During the rounds to promote quantum mania, Jeff Loveness recently suggested he has no plans to include phase five characters like Blade and Fantastic Four in the King Dynasty. First family, not factoring into the story, but this is going to be an Avengers movie and not a Fantastic Four one. Lovelace has now made clear the King Dynasty won't be where we meet the X-Men for the first time. So I don't really get in the quote. That's enough. That was from comic book movies. That's really interesting that he came out and said,

Blade Fantastic Four, and Phase 5 characters won't necessarily be in Kang Dynasty. Because that almost implies a Shang-Chi situation where, like, Shang-Chi introduced him, but like Wong was there, but he didn't really associate. And I think that was the strength of that film, is it didn't feel beholden to the whole greater tapestry.

So hopefully the lesson learned, is let Blade be a Blade movie. It should. And like, because that first blade is arguably how we got here. All of those movies, in my opinion, they need to be about themselves. Right. Let them live in their own, because I think that was the one complaint a lot of people had with Spider-Man, is you made it so, like, Iron Man was so intricately involved.

I didn't think it was as much as people always like the hot-up. He just kind of became Spider-Man, which I like a six-film origin now, but I remember being bothered by the fact, I'm like, is it a lot of the elements? So if you let Blade. be blade, but it's interesting that Kang Dynasty, if they make it the Kang movie that I hear it is that like, you know, Jonathan Majors is the lead of this movie, I wouldn't want a character I just met to be a scene filler or like that, that'd be disrespectful or to sacrifice the

characters we want to see involved with these time hijinks because we've lived with them for five phases. Well, I agree with that, man. So, Coy, tell them where you're at, man, what you got going on, bro. You can help me down at Coy Jondro on Twitter, on Instagram, on TikTok, on YouTube, on YouTube, out. I'm approaching 20K, you guys. I'm very excited about that.

I'm doing those first reactions that Christian inspired me to do walking out of the theater going, hey, this movie. And it's been fun because I actually like walking out of theater talking to people and like the chaos of it it gives me energy.

So hunt those down. And I'm really excited about the future of DC and Marvel. I know that a lot of negativity is the internet right now, but I think the John Bernthal announcement and other announcements are a testament to Marvel going,

hey, we've earned your trust. We're going to earn it even more. Please take these with goodwill. And very excited about the Bernthal. announcement in particular because I do think he's one of the best casting decisions of all time. So I remember Save Daredevil being an unbelievable effort, us thinking that would never happen. And now not only has it happened, but it's happening with John Bernthal and Donofrio.

And I think Foggy and Karen as well. I'm very excited. Yeah. Wow. That was the longest exit. You know what I said two minutes? I wanted to make him about me. All of the X-Men, they don't matter.

It's about my YouTube. You know where to find me. I'm the Swaggy Blurred here on YouTube. on TikTok, Instagram. All that good stuff. Please be sure to follow me over there. Got some good stuff rolling here. Obviously, here with capes and cows

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