The Kristian Harloff Show - Zack Snyder's Justice League Spoiler Discussion - SEN LIVE #346

Episode Date: March 19, 2021

On today's show, Winston A. Marshall hosts SEN LIVE in an InnerGeekdom Takeover and is joined by Mike Kalinowski, Jeannine Brice, JTE, Matt Thomas, and Dwain to do a full-on deep dive SPOILER discussion into Zack Snyder's Justice League! Kristian Harloff https://bit.ly/31PePMD John Rocha https://bit.ly/3kDuZQz Kate Mulligan https://bit.ly/3owBneT Brett Sheridan https://bit.ly/2HBltii Roxy Striar https://bit.ly/31OtGHj Winston A. Marshall https://bit.ly/3kyJPI0 Ben Goddard https://bit.ly/3e179f0 Sabrina Ramirez https://bit.ly/3ms3PfT Alex Marzoña https://bit.ly/2J60oNU Ryan Nilsen https://bit.ly/3nx0tc1 Steph Sabraw https://bit.ly/3m0ud0z Movie Trivia Schmoedown https://bit.ly/31Qwrrp Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Ladies and gentlemen, ladies and gentlemen. Yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, what's good, y'all. I'm Winston A.K.K.A. The Swaggy Blurred, and welcome to the Inner Geekdom Show takeover of SEM live. That's right, y'all. We are not messing around in this mug. We have coming in here with that hot Zach Snyder goodness. So if you do not want to be spoiled, because this will be a full spoiler discussion throughout the entire show, I would say, go watch the Snyder. cut and come back. I will be sad to lose a grip of y'all because I get it. It came on Thursday. Y'all got jobs. Y'all got kids. You can't necessarily just drop everything for four hours.

It happens, but we'll be here. So please come through and hang with us. But before we do that, I got to introduce the crew because I had to bring in a special crew in order to talk about the Snyder cut. First off, I got to introduce my engineer extraordinaire, Mr. Dwayne Burke. What's good, man? Hello. I'm ready to be back, you know? I hate you. I hate you so much. Yeah, but for show. I got the man that the DC News, movie news, extraordinary, he has been talking about the Sidercutt left

and right, he's been singing his praises, and I'm glad to have him here. Mr. Kio himself, Mr. Mike Kalinowski, what's up, man? What's up, guys? I feel like I hope I'm not burning people out on my DC talk all this week. I've been doing an ad nauseum, I would say, but it's pretty awesome.

No, man, I appreciate you doing it, just because it actually gets me more hyped about the product and everything else, and you've been singing its praises and pointing out stuff that made me love it even more. We got also in the building. This man be talking about all sorts of movies, all sorts of stuff.

He is making his glorious return to the Schmodeon this year. Mr. JTE, what's good, JTE? What's good, JTE? It's going on, man. I could not think of a better reason to come back and talk movies than something that is kind of unprecedented. Like, this has never really happened before as a film goer.

It's not a director's cut. It is like a film school thing where you give two different people, like a film and a project and you say go edit and make your own movie and they both come back with totally different films it's just it's insane to me and i can't wait to dig into it it's going to be absolutely amazing and of course you know i had to bring in the lovely the brilliant the machine herself miss jean what's up girl welcome to s en live thank you for having me super stoked to talk about this movie this is like a dream fulfilled situation so i'm hyped

absolutely i'm just sad that we only have you for an hour so i want to make sure we jump in this conversation pretty quickly so we can get as much of your thoughts as we can. And I wanted to introduce somebody to y'all that some of you already know him from Spin From the Real. He's essentially become almost like an internet little brother to me at this point. And so it's been one of those things. Yes, I'm sunning you right now. Just in just in case you're wondering, bro. But he has some pretty amazing views on stuff. He is very connected to the industry. The guy knows his stuff. So I had to bring on Mr. Matt Thomas. Welcome to SEM. brother how you doing thank you for having me thank you for having me i'm doing good i'm doing good

i'm just happy to be here right now yeah man of course and of course why you're all here uh is to talk about the zach schneider justice league that was graced upon us uh yesterday eve so um real quick dwayne do we have the little spoiler graphic or whatever to put on there just in case people didn't read the title and aren't paying attention the fact that it's a assassination gut spoiler review. Spoilers, come on, guys. You said you'll get it in a second, Dwayne? Yeah.

OK, so final warning. It is a spoiler. It is a spoiler discussion throughout this entire thing. So if you want to wait, you can always come back and do it on the replay. Obviously, I love interacting with you live, but I just want to get that out of the way. And then the other thing that's going to happen today, all support is appreciated monetarily with the super chats and the stream labs. We will, this is a Schmobot only show though, or a $30 super chat only show in the sense that we want to be able to talk about it.

It's four hours of content. And so we're going to really try and stay focused. So if you do want to put your input in there, send in the Schmobot, which is $20 on Stream Labs, send in the super chats, $30 plus. Again, all money is appreciated as far as the help, but those will be the only ones that will be read out loud today. We won't go back and read the smaller ones. So again, if you want to send in the smaller stuff, it does help the channel. It does help things kind of grow.

So we do appreciate that. But only $20 stream labs, $30 super chats today, just as a heads up. All right. Let's just dive right into it. Let's just get an initial thoughts. Thank you. Loving this All-Star Super Panel. What is this snider cut I keep hearing about on the internet?

I thought that did not exist. Janine, hope you crush it in your match later. Thank you. That's right. Miss Machine is taking on Jada Paramo the Hurricane at 2 p.m. today. And your first match of the season, correct? Yes, first match of my senior year. You're not about to graduate and leave us, are you?

I hope not. Girl, you just said senior year. And I was like, wait, what? No, but I totally get that. I can't wait for that match. We'll talk about that in a little bit right around when about to take off, but yes, that matches at 2 p.m. today. But initial thoughts, let's start with Janine.

Since I was just talking to you, what did you think about the Snyder cut? Obviously, you must have watched it by now if you're having this discussion. Yes. I really loved it because I'm someone who found things that I really liked in the bones of the original version. So seeing this fleshed out, really great pacing for four hours. The dialogue was super streamlined, not a lot of unnecessary elements they really gave you all of the information you needed great character moments uh absolutely loved everything about it there were some gripes i had very minimal gripes uh

definitely a huge improvement just so was so hyped on this version no i i a thousand percent agree there there's little moments and i'll kind of get into mind in a minute too but uh j t what about you man like what's what was uh the snider cut for you did you enjoy it are you about it. What would you like to see change? Like what was your feelings? All right. I'm not going to try to go too long. This is just introduction, but I have so much to say. What this cut did for me was took out the two big issues I had with theatrical, which was scale and tone. When I went and saw Justice League in 2017, I didn't have that same feeling as when I left the theater after seeing Avengers where it felt like this, you know, spectacle. I wanted to let this big, rousing kind of epic

come together of a team. It felt more. very much like a Saturday morning cartoon version of the Justice League that was very different from tone when you look at Wonder Woman Manisteele, Batman, Superman. Those films are grounded in reality. They're gritty. And when they went made Justice League, they kind of threw that formula out. It didn't feel like Zach Snyder's Justice League. It felt like a very pop cartoon version of it. So this movie gave me the scale. And I'm not just talking about length. I'm talking about the scale of like everything with the Amazon's was so much better. The building. of stepping a wolf of what he was actually trying to accomplish the circumstances with dark side

or he looms over this whole movie so i felt that scale in the tone again the tone is much more in line with those first three zack snider films and sorry first two and patty jackins uh and it matches it feels like it fits into that universe whereas justice league felt like a reaction instead of a continuation so to me this corrected the two biggest things that i thought was a mystic for justice It's like, no, that makes total complete and total sense. And I agree with you. I think that like, again, bringing in somebody that, you know, Helm the Avengers and him being like, oh, it's a team up film,

the same color palette. I know how to do this. I got this. No big deal. Like, great, let's do it. Matt, tell me, what about you, man? First thoughts about the Snyder cut. Well, after months and months of being a Snyder cut the tractor,

I was proven wrong last week when I watched this. Um, overall, I was, I was really happy with the outcome. I do have some grapes with it, especially the slow mo and the overuse of it at times. Um, but overall, getting Ray Fisher's cyborg, the shine that he had in this film comparatively. And giving, uh, his father, Silas Stone that Jonathan Kent moment from Man of Steel was just beautiful. So I, I completely agree. And I, to be honest with you, I feel like personally, and it's not just because we're talking about a black superhero. I think it was an improvement. on the Jonathan Kent moment,

just because for me, I think the small disconnect with that is, it didn't make sense, because Superman still could have saved his dad and not outed himself. And he's super, super freaking fast. Like, it could have worked. So that, there was a little disconnect there,

which is why I appreciate the iteration of Jonathan Kent like dying from, you know, cancer. And it's like Superman can't stop, can't, like that's a different kind of kind of, connection of Superman can't genuinely save everything for everybody at all times. But that's a whole other conversation. Before I get to Mike, because Mike obviously he's got that whole thing. Dwayne, what was your first thoughts on the film, man?

I be honest. Curtis Slope has donated $20. Thank you very much for doing this. I really enjoyed the Snyder cut. If you guys think about it when Silas was explaining what all cyborg can do, it's kind of scary. If he went bad, he can launch nuclear missiles and can make people even countries bankrupt. Mm-hmm. A thousand percent. Absolutely.

That's what's always been. That's why, in my opinion, he, outside of Superman with the actual physical strength and then, like, Dr. Strange with, like, the mystical side of things, Dr. Strange, what's wrong with me? Dr. Fate. I'm very... It's a magician. Right, right. It doesn't matter? Clearly doing this, this jump from Marvel straight to DC is messing with me because I did it. I did it on that one. What did I say on the other one?

I said, uh, strange. I said, I said, what? Adam strange. I said Adam strange. Yes. I said Adam strange. I was, I'll bounce it all over the place. That technologically wise, he, he is the most terrifying person on the planet.

And it's a good thing. Like you said, that he's a good dude because he could do that. But please continue your thoughts, Dwayne. So I wasn't. the biggest pain about how this came to fruition. Fair. I think that it was a very bad thing for cinema and art as a whole. But I never want anything to be bad.

And I am pleasantly surprised at how much I enjoyed this. Minus the runtime, it was a little rough for me watching it in one shot. But everything I saw, I love. loved. And I wish that we could get this for Green Lanard because that's my favorite superhero. And I wish that we would get a good movie for that. Well, we'll talk about that in a bit, how in an interview, apparently, John Stewart was up, apparently for the thing. And then, you know, the studio was like, nah, we got other plans with the lantern. So no, but then gave us Manhunter, which is pretty cool. But I got to ask the king himself, Mr. Kalinowski, bro, what are your takeaways from

Snyder Cut? I can take a quote from the movie, I'm just gonna say, not impressed. I reached out to Roxy. I saw it Monday night and I reached out to it. I was like, I so wanna tweet, not impressed, hashtag, hashtag Justice League and just see. Just see what happens?

Three days, what happens. And then I thought I was like, I can't because the people that do my followers on Twitter, that's a bulk is from DC stuff. So I'm like, that's disrespectful. So I didn't do it. And I'm gonna say, this because like JT mentioned and we talked a little bit about before the show, I came out of the first theatrical cut liking it.

I saw a private screening on the lot at Warner Brothers. So I was caught up in this recency bias of just wanting to just like the film and wanting to enjoy it. So in the special treatment we'd gotten. And then I backtracked it. Very, you know, foot and mouth saying, you know, I was wrong. I see all the flaws now and it's all the different, you know, in certain scenes you see you see. Curtis Lope has donated $20. I know I get hate for this, but Martian Manhunter is lame as fuck. In all interpretations, he's a wuss. In the JAL cartoon, he always gets his rainbows whooped in the 2010 JL script. He's a helpless vegetable and here his coward rainbows shows up at the end. What?

Wow. You are going to catch the smoke. You are going to catch the smoke. First of all, Martian may have a mold. multiple times has gone toe to toe with Superman whooped his ass. That's the first thing. Second of all, homely, can shadow your mind with just a thought, son. You're gonna put some respect

on his name. Third, but, huh, I can't, I can't do this. Somebody take over for a bit out, whoa. Hold on. Look what you did. Let me see if I can, he's in a movie for like two minutes, so like, where's the anger going to? Yeah.

Let me see if I can get this. Not like you was brought into the movie full force. Boy. Ooh. No, sir. Multiple times has Martian Manhunter been called the most powerful being in the universe. There is in no way, shape, or form. Is he a wuss?

Clark himself has said, if John wanted to end me, he could. Like, he openly admits that if John decided it was time to go. Like, that's why an injustice for those, like, I know a lot of people don't necessarily like that book. I like that take of that universe that's just so dark. That's great. And actually, I love that Snyder taps into this with the idea of the future scape they have to deal with. If you take out Lois, what happens to soups that he just will flip out? Because for those that haven't read injustice, Joker puts a bomb in a nuclear bomb in Metropolis and has something connected to Lois's heart. He kidnaps Lois. He hits him with a mix of kryptonite and scarecrow gas.

So he thinks he sees his doomsday. So the first thing he thinks to do is just fly doomsday. into the atmosphere or out into space and hopefully suffocate him. And what ends up happening is, because of the fear toxin, he ends up flying Lois into space, killing Lois, killing his baby, and since that device was inside of her, the nuclear bomb goes off. So he loses Metropolis, his child, and Lois all at once, and he snaps. He's like, no more Boy Scout, you commit a crime, I'm putting you down. And that's kind of the future scape that Snyder was looking to for this further story,

which I appreciate, right? But in that, the first person he merks is John Jones because he goes, I know he could stop me. So I'm taking him out. Like put some respect on the Martian man on his name, son. Okay, I'm back. Mike, as you were saying, you would like Justice League at first, but then now seeing this.

And since I've owned up to like, just in the scene, you see scenes with Affleck, like he's a different person in the same scene. Like you knew they reshot stuff. So Black Hawk donated $100. Wow. Thank you so much. And Joker have a roast session in the dream sequence. Them words be cutting deep to the soul.

Even Joker got a little bit shook that surprised me. Cleveland, Ohio in the building. Let's go. Let's go. Let's go. Thank you so much for that donation. I appreciate it. But it was dope to see.

Because you weren't going to have them fight. It wouldn't make sense to just throw him into a Justice League movie. so to agree to have the Mavaro session and to have Batman drop an F bomb. I wasn't ready for that. Yeah. But that was pretty cool. But I apologize for you being interrupted again. No, no, no.

It's go for it. Yeah, so I'll just say like this was what I wanted it to be. Like, and I'm a fan of Snyder. I love BBS. I'm a big fan of that film. I'm a big fan of Man of Steel. So this was the films, you know, and we could talk a little bit later about maybe the five films that he had planned out and would have things been differently. But yeah, this was everything I wanted it to be. And

very happy that all the characters are 180 from what we got. Like J.T. said, it's like, it's a good project. You give the same. Like people are upset, like, or the people that detractors are like, it's just still a story about three magic boxes. It's like, yeah, it is. Lord of the Rings is a group of friends carrying a piece of jewelry across the country. Mad Max Fury Road is a giant U-turn. That's all that movie is. Infinity War, it's six stones, six magic stones. Six magic stone. Six magic stones. Like people use that.

It's like, that's not the point. And, and I, there's lots of people saying it's a little bloated. I don't find, I don't feel that. Like, I don't think so. For me, one of the best scenes in the movie was Alfred and Bruce after he meets Aquaman and get back on the plane and he's just talking. He's like, yeah, I'm failing at this. I can't draft these people.

Like those little scenes, if in theatrical, that probably would have been cut, you know, to get it down to three and a half, three 15. But that's to me, why Zach Snyder said, like, hey, you're making, let me make my movie, I'm putting it all out there for you guys. Here's up here to, here's a, here's, everything I wanted. Yeah. I get that.

And I think for me, I personally, if I had to give it a rating, I'd give it like a solid like nine out of ten. I think what stops it from me is the runtime. And it doesn't feel like four hours watching it. But when you then come up for air because of life, you're like, my God, I started this at eight. It's meant I know how math works. I get that that would be what the four hours are.

But it's just like I have a. like even watching it a second time in order to get more notes for today was difficult for me because I just didn't have four hours plus actually because you're taking notes to do that. So what I would have loved personally, especially because he put the chapter format in here, is to then just release it as a mini-series almost like you could have released it all at once to be bingeable. But just like how Wanda Vision essentially they treated it the same thing. They said, this is shot and treated like a movie. We're just going to give it to you in bites.

So if you're already going to do the chapter thing, fine, chapter one, chapter two, just just do that and then let people do that at their discretion. Now mind you again, you could pause it, et cetera. But there is something to be said about even having to fast forward through the four hours to find the moment you want to find versus being like chapter one I know was this. Let me do that because I guess the other flip side of it that you could have done to save it down to 330. I like the idea of what would have been. in with the future scape stuff, I think you can cut the epilogue. I think you can cut the epilogue. I think for two reasons. The first being, who knows, maybe Warner changes their minds about it, but since the universe is kind of is kind of done, don't, don't hit me with something where now I'm like, ah, ah, like the rest of the time, like what would have been. But then also, yeah, go ahead, go ahead, Mike.

I just, I think I get your point and I do and I had the same argument with someone last night, but I think for him, and again, this was back over a course of of a year when they're making this. I think there's a different discussion that's happening at Warner Brothers right now, I think, than there was six months ago. Six months ago, he's like, this is it, I'm done. I'm putting it all out there. I'm putting this. This tease would be for like people like myself that are like, oh, I want to know where this world goes. I want to know how they finish this story. That's where it was where I think that was. And again, I think this whole thing was for the fans from a year ago. It was just, you know, they weren't trying to hit box office numbers. They weren't

trying to you know it was just let's put it out there yeah but i do get the point i do get the point of some people like they just shouldn't been there i say one thing about the epilogue yeah to me i think you know the nightmare sequence we all were looking forward to that the epilogue scene that really didn't i'm not quite sure it made sense for me was the lex luther and death stroke because that literally is setting up the batman film that ben afflick was supposed to make we know that's not going to happen. I mean, like, by some miracle, we actually get a Justice League two from Zach Snyder. That would be insane. But I felt like the one with Lex Luther, it really didn't tie into this movie at all. It was really just a setup for the Ben Affleck solo movie, which we're

never going to get. So to me, that felt like you could have kind of took that out. You could have taken that out. I get you want to show off Joe, but like, you know what I'm saying? You didn't need that. But Matt, go ahead, man. To be fair, that scene was a post-credit scene in the original film. And it was kind of hinted at that justice setup of the injustice league. And that's partly why that scene was in there. So if you're going to do the injustice league and they're supposed to help Darkside and work for Darkside because Lex Luthor brings that connection there, then it's still kind of needed. It was a parcel setup to the nightmare sequence, but I agree. Snyder said going into this, like, yeah, it ends on a cliffhanger. If you take the nightmare scene

out, it doesn't end on a cliffhanger. It's a nice, clean ending. That's it. You didn't need it at all. That's my big thing is that I get you want to show you want to if this is your one shot you want to show everything but again I think with some of those little things you make or because it is being released on a streaming service you do have that same thing where like deleted scenes because that's kind of what the epilogue felt like was deleted scenes less so than a post credit because of how long they were you could even set that up with the extra this was you know luther meets death stroke like uh you know uh what what happened to future Batman, like all, like you could have found ways to kind of plug that in a little bit. But I get it. You're like, I got to get it all out. You just got to this is, this is just a screw it, just like, whoa. But also think of the narratively the way that they did do it.

It wasn't the final scene. It was him waking up from a dream. So it led in a much manner like, yes, the Justice League won, but Darkside is still out there. Like Bruce knows if we didn't win, this is, it's going to get worse for it gets better. Did any of you guys expect that nightmare scene to be somewhere in the middle of the movie? Because Batman would be Superman. It just kind of happens in the middle and you're like, whoa, what's going on? So yeah, I was watching it waiting for it.

I was like, oh, it's going to be in the epilogue. I was like, interesting. I thought this would be something that would be in the middle of the movie, just like Batman, that hinted to what was going to come later. So I was a little surprised was at the very end. See, I felt like when Cyborg put his hand in as the key, that was the perfect moment to do it. Because you had that flash and it would have been like, okay. And then you get the long vision there and you get an idea of what could happen.

And that would cause more of that worry that he had right at that moment. That would be a big one or flash from the standpoint of like he's essentially undoing time after the explosion goes off. If he's seeing visions of what is coming by him messing with time right now since he broke his one of his rules. I think that would have been an apt moment too. The scene with Leto and it's pretty long. So I feel like if you put it in that cyborg scene, it would have really kind of killed the momentum that was building. That was during a final battle.

So to me, like, if you put it before that, and then that would have been the capper on it a little bit, I think it would have worked a little bit better. Yeah, that's fair. All right, so I want to start, we're going to kind of take it characters by characters. We're going to talk about cyborg flesh. Patrick Ford donated $30 through Super Chat.

I'm reminded by the Clone Wars where we never thought we would see the story come to a complete close. However, I do understand that the difference between these two properties is millions of dollars, but never say never. That's a good point. That's a very, very good point. I'll be honest with you. If it's a situation where they, like, obviously I would love more of this live action, but if there's like a situation where maybe like they just, you can't work out set contracts, Warner really wants to move a different direction with live action and stuff like that. I would honestly be interested in the same way that like you kind of have that transition into. to the Clone Wars where it was animated, I wouldn't hate a Zach Snyder-led animated series because the Justice League cartoon in the 2000s was one of my favorite shows of all time.

I feel like he could take that tone and make something insane with this that would be super dope. I obviously would love to see this live action continue, but I think that that could be a pretty interesting take. I mean, what do you guys think about that? I think if they did anything and knowing that it's DC and what they've done in the past, like with injustice, for example, a comic book,

because what's a perfect way drive those sales up, you want to see how this continues, go buy the comic. Same thing Lucas film does with Star Wars nowadays where you want to learn more about this little thing, go read the comic, go read the book. It's all about making money in the end. If they don't think they're going to make money putting more effort into creating a physical, like a visible film or television show media, then why wouldn't it? Yeah, I think that's definitely a viable option to do something like that. Like for me, I thought the assault on Arkham animated film was what Suicide Squad should have been and I was loving that movie because of that.

So I think it's definitely a great- I love that you said that you yeah I love that film. Yes it's so much fun that's what I wanted suicide squad to be so I think they could definitely continue the story in an animated way that would be really fun. Yeah a thousand percent so let's let's dive in because again I know we only have Janine for about another 25 minutes-ish Let's talk about Cyborg, Flash, and Aquaman. We can make the argument that obviously being this movie was kind of the vehicle initially back in Justice League to introduce us to these characters. I don't really count the little minor sequences in Batman v. Superman,

and obviously Wonder Woman got a full movie to flush out her character before this. Let's talk about them. I want to start with Janine. Cyborg, for me, I was blown away. I felt like he was the heart and soul of this film. film and everything that him and his family were going through. I mean, what were your takeaways with Cyborg? I loved everything about giving him so much more story. They set up that he's a character who has a big heart, who cares about people who wants to do good things. They set up a stronger kind of issue with his dad when him and his mom are driving and, you know, he kind of tears up just thinking about how his dad is kind of never there for him. You know, as a kind of grown man,

like a college kid, to express that still kind of upset about your dad. I really liked that. I got to like getting to actually see the accident and that impact. So it made more sense why he's so angry at his dad. Like you guys mentioned kind of comparing it to the Jonathan Kent kind of relationship. I really liked all of that. I liked how they illustrated his powers, kind of him being in, being himself kind of in the cyber world kind of going through it and watching things like that. I loved how they illustrated that. I like that they didn't kind of glossed gloss over Silas's death that, you know, he was still kind of feeling it and that kind of drove

him to the fight. I felt like I was kind of worried. Donated $30 through Super Chat. The epilogue we got was an alternate timeline that was changed from the BVS nightmare scene after they stopped Steppie and the Snyder cut. Joker said how many alternate timelines are you going to make because you won't die yourself? That's a good point. I didn't even really put, I thought maybe it was a different just. point in that storyline, but that's a very solid point that that could very easily just be a

completely different timeline of the same nightmare scape because Bruce just won't take the hell. But Janine, please continue with your thought. Well, because I felt like, you know, we have this big battle coming. So are they going to kind of just gloss over his emotions over the death of his father and just get into the fight? I like that they kind of took a little bit of time to deal with that, that the team was kind of watching him and saying, is he okay? Can he do this? And they did address it. They didn't really gloss over it. So I really like the more father and son dynamics, how he kind of came back to really respecting his father. And, you know, Diana telling him he, you know, these gifts and him realizing that and his father kind of being a part of that.

So I loved all the father and son stuff. I love the layers of seeing who he was as a person. And yeah, definitely loved how they illustrated his powers and how they work. for me that did it and then Mike I want to get your opinion on this the initial thing for me that really sunk in for cyborg and I got chills like I I didn't cry cry but like I welled up a little bit donated $49 and 99 cents through super chat people need to realize that having Emma makes more sense than GLE the he's attached to the anti-life equation law the setup for JL2 his race the Martians created the life equation that's a good point that's a very very solid point That's a very, very solid point. Well said. But with Cyborg, I love how very quickly, because obviously we're introduced to him already as Cyborg, and then they kind of do him thinking back on his life

before the accident and everything. But to cut back to the scene with his mom in the Dean's office being like, look, he out here trying to help this kid that lost the parents in their home. Like what did you expect? What did you do to help her? What did you do to help her? My son, yes, he's smart enough to hack, and he changed her grades because what is you're going to help?

her grades because what did you do to make sure that this girl could succeed while dealing with tragedy and so to set that up and then once we start getting into the dive of his powers and he goes and finds another young woman who is doing everything she can to survive with for her and her kids and just can't just left after right just can't make it happen has no money is barely making it and he uses those powers like we said we you could launch nukes if you want you could tank the economy because like he what he takes the wall street bull and I don't know what the bear references to money. I think just a baller of a bear market.

Got it. Okay. Stock market. Knocks him up, like cut it out and then goes and finds that one woman that's got maybe $25 to her name and some change and just throws her 100K and then it even writes it off as you want a contest for the bank for being a special customer. So he wasn't like he just fixed that like nothing and changed her life. I got chills.

It just at that point, I was like, Mike, how do you, I get that you got a cut for time, but how do you cut out that particular element of cyborg from the theatrical release just because, again, we know nothing about these characters. I would have been fine maybe cutting a little bit more of set action or whatever, so I have an opportunity to get to know these people

because I think that's the main difference you get, maybe from Avengers to this. We have the set up movies to already get a base for those other characters. there were three characters here that we hadn't been introduced to. So you need moments like this in order to really get them. Mike, what did you think about about Cyborg? Well, I had the pleasure of interviewing Ray back with DC Movie News years ago on the show,

and he was such a gentleman. And now to know what they were going through and, you know, him not even giving any hint of the changes or what had happened, how unhappy they were. But you just see, because he's, Zach Snyder and him kind of had this bond. And you could tell with all the behind the scenes stuff, Like, you know, he had no credits before this. He was a theater actor.

And here he is. This was a star making performance, and it was changed completely. It was like the heart of the league. And like it said, the scenes, like, yeah, the scene and with the principal's office, yeah, if you want to cut down for time, that's a scene that goes, but you want it. You want those scenes, you know. It just, he was the heart. Like, like, I love the fact of the mother boxes with him fighting them when he goes into the mother

boxes. And they realize he makes it appear like his parents. to push it together to bring them as a unity and he's pulling his family apart because he knows it's wrong. Like that was so strong to me. That was that it gave me it gave me the same vibes with Captain Marvel about the supreme intelligence of the idea of you know that like messing with your mind like it's it's a it's a it's a trope that happens in fantasy and superhero stuff like I'm gonna pretend to be the thing you love more than anything like you can have it like and it's right here. But the idea of like no, even though the mother boxes could. technically revive them though they wouldn't the idea that he'd like you said he had to sacrifice his family to do the right thing and to be that hero yeah and i think the line was i

think it's like you know you're broken in it alone he's like i'm not broken i'm not alone you know like that was just like it's so strong so strong mike to that point that that particular quote did you notice as well when he sees the family together every time we've seen him in his powers he's been him as a human in his letterman jacket etc yeah and it's the same thing that's what he's seeing of himself and his parents. But then when he makes the decision, no, I will save the world like, I'm not broken, I'm not alone. Then we cut back to him, he's in, he's cyborg.

He's not, he's not Victor, he's cyborg. And it was the same thing, that realization of this is who I am now. Yeah. Yeah, I, yeah, I pass the, pass on someone else because, yeah, I was, he was never, and he was, he's good in the, in Justice League, the first theatrical. He's, he's a great in what he was given. So to know what, and I was talking to some friends of mine, some actor friends. It's like, just imagine your film in this movie.

You've got this great script, you're working with the director, you're killing it, having a great time. Someone else comes in, gives you their script. And like, this is not what we're doing. Like, this is 180 degrees character wise. Okay, I'm under contract and I'm an actor, so I'm going to do it and we're going to work through this. And now you see the stories where like he went to, we like, hey, I've got some notes or this. And he's like, yeah, I don't take notes from even Robert Dying Jr., so. You're just like, you see it.

And you try not to let that influence you when you're, when you're watching this. Yeah, but it's hard not to. A thousand percent. JT. what do you think about about Flash, man? Like how, like there was a big, there was a big transition with Flash because we have to flush out a little bit more

about him, including his story with his dad, meeting Iris. What did you think about that, man? Yeah, first of all, they gave him the Richard Donner scene where he goes, instead of going around the planet, just gonna go around the base. I was like, I love the Richard Donner movie,

but this wouldn't actually make sense a little bit more. I love giving the flash the Superman Richard Donner moment at the end where he turns everything right. They all got. They basically all died. The explosion. And as he's like, I love the fact when he was reversing, like they were, their bodies were coming back together after being disintegrated.

So that was so cool visually. Yeah. One thing I noticed about this cut and this is something I was really curious about, were we going to get some more with Henry Cavill and Batman? And I don't really think we got that much more with those two. I think was Zach Snyder really zoned in on it. three new characters uh wonder woman definitely got a little bit more to do in this cut especially in the first half but like yeah flash cyborg aquaman he really fleshed them out which i think was smart

because they're not getting their own film before this this is literally them coming to the justice league uh so i was a little surprised that batman's german sterman didn't have a little bit more but i do like the way he approached them compared to the jocelyn cut first of all batman after the batmobile stuff he basically disappears in this two thousand This one is, he's awesome. He's out there. He's on a freaking space guns. He's got these like technology to block him.

He's like, I was like, yes, this is what was missing. Yeah, but gonlet was so smart, was such a smart addition to like him in that action. Yeah. To what you're saying. Like, I love the fact that like, yeah, all the, all the powerful people, they've got to take on step. He's just going to handle the foot soldiers outside, which is like, that's true. He would step down. You guys do this.

I'll take care of this outside. Yeah. I'll take on all hundred of the pair of demons out here. Like I got it covered. Y'all just make sure that dude that if he punches me once, I would die. That like, you got him covered. All right. And there's that cool age of Ultron slow-mo freeze frame where they're all like together.

That might be. Yeah, and I loved it. But I will say Flash, I loved his intro scene. It was very funny. When he grabs the hot dog, I was like, what's he going to do? That killed me, bro. I just, I just, I went to his. I was like, oh, he needs a snack.

Okay, that makes sense. But like that was genius. And then we're like a meat snack. I always carry a big stick. Where my dog, man. I thought he was going to take the hot dog. And I don't know why I thought this go to Iris's face and just go up her over there like a slow motion.

Yeah. And I don't know if I was used to judge the 2017 version of what that act, the character. Like is he just going to mess around with her like, oh, in her face? I literally thought he was just going to then while he finished the rest of the scene saving saving people, just be like munching on the hot dog. Yeah. Like that was, you know, but Matt, tell us what you're thinking, man.

Like, you know, Aquaman, like there was a big change here where we, that intro scene that was really truncated in the 2017 version. We got to see a little bit more of how Arthur is thinking, his relationship with that town. We even get to see him do a classic, what we used to tease Aquaman for. Oh, no, my boat's sinking. Oh, dude just swam and saved me. But like in a badass way, like, what did you think about Aquaman, brother?

Well, I actually loved the one scene in particular you're talking about the added Volko scene. I felt that that really set up Aquaman as a film itself, especially someone who, that is my favorite DC-EU movie. I know that's kind of a hot take to some, but it's a good movie. It's a good movie. I love Aquaman. Yeah. I love that movie. But no, I felt like seeing, it was weird seeing, oh, woman to foe with the long, kind of wet, wet hair.

I dug that look, man. I don't know if I did. I was like, I know how old he is. And I was like, why y'all doing this to this man? Can you not? Like, don't make it worse. If you're underwater, right now have long hair. You got long hair under water? You want that long hair.

You want to be flowing in. They gave him up. They gave him that bun in Aquaman. Hey, they did. It would just go, it would just fall on me if I was just underwater all the time. I get it. I did like the hints on the tone. especially when he's looking at his ancestors, just statues, staring at the Trident,

which I had there behind me. It just, it felt right. And I felt like out of all the moments you cut from the theatrical cut, that shouldn't have been one of them. Now, granted, there was a brilliant cut line about Mara's parents being dead in Atlanta taking her in that I'm like, okay, yeah, I can understand why that's not working because her father plays a major part in Aquaman. But overall, I just really enjoyed that, what it did for the character. You see how he's actually struggling, battling with himself, even though he doesn't want to admit it, especially in that vocal scene. So, a thousand, a thousand percent. We've got, we've got Janine for about another 10 minutes.

So if there's anything in particular you wanted to talk about, Janine, I kind of want to let you take the lead here and the things that really impressed you about the film. but we'll get our dive into Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman. We'll get to the bad guys and all that. But Janine, you have the floor if there's anything you really want to kind of tackle. Okay. I'm just kind of talking about the flash. I was a little disappointed with the scene when they kind of first fight together. I liked that he was kind of out of his realm and he needed a little bit more mentoring.

Like he didn't know what to do. Like all these other people have fought these crazy things and have had that experience, whereas he's like kind of just taking out petty thugs. he's never fought anything like this before. So I like that, you know, Batman had to give him a bit of a pep talk, like just take, just save one. You like that from the original. Yeah, from the original.

So I, I missed that a little bit. I also really missed his theme. I loved his theme. That was kind of one of my gripes that the music in this one just felt a little more generic. I loved all the nods to the, you know, Burton Batman theme and-Mollett-off show I loved all those little nods. Even as a biased Marvel fan and Superman hater that movie was a thousand percent better than what got though the slow motion and weird sections of sound track made me go that's a choice

flash breaking his rule was fucking beautiful it was it was i i i i i jean to continue with your thought but like no i do think that that was a cool moment because i think that that gave something for for flash to do as far as like i have one rule and i won't break it and obviously we're used to batman saying that and people obviously have been feeling some type of way about Batman just killing all willy-nilly in the last couple of films. So it was cool to see that Flash kind of carried that mantle a little bit of like, I won't do this unless I have to. I won't do this unless I have to.

And obviously did, but Janine, I'm sorry, you were interrupted. Also, that just reminded me of Wonder Woman just straight up murdering a dude and like seeing his blood on the wall. That was kind of surprising to me. But I mean, bro, she fought in World War I was out here slicing dudes up. But to see the blood, that was like, okay. Fair, fair. But yeah, I was kind of bummed that they did take out a lot of the music because, yeah, I loved the, you know, the Donner, like Superman theme when he first came back. I loved all those little nods. So I was a little bit disappointed with the musical changes that happened. But yeah, I loved getting more of the flash. I loved that they kind of took out all the weird stuff with him. He was still quirky and really kind of fast talking because, you know, his mind works faster than everyone else's. But they did kind of give him a little bit more heart too.

And I love that opening scene. And yeah, I think that kind of made the other slow-mo feel like a lot because the slow-mo is kind of what we use to illustrate his powers. So we're using it all the time for excessive things. I mean, I don't need to see a seed fall off of a hamburger button in slow motion. That was a lot. That was one of those things I was talking about. I didn't need that. I didn't need that.

I didn't need that. It was a little excessive. but definitely loved all the stuff with the Flash. I actually like that we got this kind of silent visual, you know, low-key story with Lois, just kind of following this routine that she does, going to the scene every day to kind of be with him. I like that we got like a little bit more Mark McClure, Jimmy Olson.

You know, he got, you know, a lot of his stuff, put back in. So yeah, just like that we got this little silent story with Lois. I thought that was really smart, just to kind of follow her in a kind of background way, around way, especially since, you know, a key kind of underlying point is that she's the key to everything. So, yeah, I like that we just got a little bit more all these kinds of little nuggets of more context. Definitely, like I said, streamlined dialogue, a lot of things that weren't

super unnecessary. I felt like a little bit more the Batman flash dynamic felt kind of like Ironman Peter Parker kind of. A little bit, yeah. Yeah, I was getting more vibes of that. The final battle, I love how they fleshed that out so much more like JT you were saying, you know, Batman had more to do. They didn't just kind of keep them. Sort of the flash. Yes. Instead of pushing a car of people like actually like,

I love it, took out that family, like, that moment where he gets shot and he can't keep going, he needs to because he's going to die because him and then the music kicks in, like that was just. That was amazing. It's, it's, there is no town. There's no people there. like it's a completely different third act.

And he's just like, I just got the wind knocked out of me. Like he's not saying I am hurt. I know. He's just like waiting to kind of get back into it. Because even though he's obviously the fastest and probably one of the most powerful because of all he can do with that, a lot of times with the flash because it's just the speed,

especially early on, it just feels like you move quickly and you can like catch someone off guard with a punch. Whereas like Batman's clearly the smartest and he's all sorts of crazy gadgets and Wonder Woman and Superman a bunch of things out of like the stratosphere. And all of a sudden, that whole tidal wave can be stopped and we can shut down all their computer systems.

So there's this level of, and you can tell with him, and they do that even with him in jail talking to his dad. He doesn't feel like he's enough. He doesn't feel like he's actually strong. So him saying, I just got the wind out of me. I just got the wind knocked out of me. Like, come on, he'll, dude, like heal. There's this level of him acknowledging he's strong.

You know what I mean? Yeah. I mean, it goes back and it was an added line. His dad says it. But he adds it in the end, like, I am one of the best of the best. It's like, you hear that and he's like, it's all these people finding their place in the world, which is great. A thousand percent.

A thousand percent. And I personally, I get what you're saying, Janine, about the mentoring thing. I thought that that was kind of fun in 2017. But the one thing that always threw me off about that, if he had enough wherewithal to make a quartz suit and do all that kind of stuff and have a layer, there's no way that he wouldn't know how to like, and I appreciate that. that that's how they made him fight in this. He wasn't like out here, like the flash we see in the comics and stuff is hitting you with like boxing combinations because he's learned over time hanging out with Black Cat and Batman and all that kind of stuff. The way he fights in this is he is dodging and then full speed pushing someone and that velocity sends them through a wall. Like that to me as his level of learning how to fight, but at least he knows what he's doing in that regard. I thought was really cool to see that.

Let's not forget he's the one who captured Captain Boomerang. It's not like he hasn't been playing crime. Yeah, it's true. Go back suicide squad. He's been out there fighting crime. Yeah, that's absolutely true. Matt, you look like he had something you want to say. I'm more so thinking right now because I know everybody loves what they've done with the Flash.

And even I do to a certain extent. I kind of have an issue with like you kind of make him seem like he's, and they still make him seem like he's learning his powers. But at the same time, he's using one of his strongest powers time travel right at the end of it. And it's like, wait, what? I'm trying to think, does he, because in this version, is he still learning his powers? Because it doesn't feel like it did in 2017, but it feels like he's kind of got a grip on him here. This is just out of his element fighting like demons and monsters.

Yeah, right. That's kind of what is out of his element. But I think he's been using his suit and doing his powers for a lot of time. He even mentions talking gorilla hands like. Gorilla sign language. He's been around. Like this is a Flash who's been through the, he's been through it. It was a weird, I mean, I didn't take his grip, but he does say when they're digging up

Superman, he's like, he's my idol. I look up to him. So there are people, and I do get this, I was talking to someone last night, they would have loved to have had a man of steel tube before BVS. Yes. Before BVS. So let Superman be Superman for a film doing Superman stuff. And I get that. So it's one of those things you got to infer that Flash was around, Superman was a public figure, you know, here he was this kid is hiding, he's got these powers and who do you look up to? It's Superman, you know. And I think he does kind of talk about how he's worked with his powers enough that when they are resurrecting Superman, he knows that if he does go too fast and things like that, he knows he can make weird things happen with time. So he knows it's a possibility.

He knows it's something he's capable of. Yes, thanks for saying that because they did such a good job of the smoke building the house. Like that analogy of how the boxes work. Yeah. Was brilliant. Yeah, I think that whole scene was a lot better, as opposed to them just kind of bickering on whether they should. and you know Bruce kind of being really confrontational with Diana like oh yeah which I don't think works I agree with you yeah this was a much more natural transition they um yeah we were all they were all

knowing yet we have to do this there was no yeah it was a good idea they realized they need him so they were all together in it they were just varying degrees of all right we're going to go along with this because I appreciate the fact that the the the actual this is a bad idea was actually coming from Aquaman of all people. Yeah. Just especially from the standpoint that the way that they framed his character even more so, the idea of like he wants nothing to do with this, he just wants to live his life, he already has this like abandonment issue from dealing with his dad and his mom and all that kind of stuff. I appreciate that he was the one that's like, how about we don't tamper with fate

here? How about like we leave this be like, I mean, we'll figure it out like let's not do this. It makes more sense to me for it to come from Arthur than it does from Diana, especially since Diana and Bruce have been on the same page, since Batman v. Superman, this war is coming because Arthur doesn't get it. He's like, I don't care about the world. I don't care about the war. That's too much. So Diana, I feel like would make that sacrifice of like, no, we need him, bring him back.

They made a good point showing not just the Amazon's who are willing to die to defeat Steppenwolf. But her, she's a warrior and they show that in that scene, like, that was what the transition was from the we didn't cause. Like, she's a warrior. She'll give you a chance to stop what you're doing. But when you won't, you're done. So she knows like, okay, we need this. We got to take this guy out or he's going to wipe out everyone. Let me ask you guys one quick question.

Frangeneeneeneene, goes, did you like the fact that Amy Adams' character, Lowe's Lane, just sees it happening? And she's right before Superman's like about to lay in the Batman. Yes. She just kind of comes out of nowhere because she saw him be resurrected. Or did you prefer Batman in this? We didn't cut being like bringing the secret weapon. And then Batman knowing that that might be what brings Superman back. I prefer this way, honestly.

Yeah. Yeah. I think they set up her kind of daily routine of going to that site and seeing him bringing the coffee and that kind of ritual she has with that situation that made sense for her to be there. That's why she was there because she was starting that usual ritual that she has. I think that why they did it though that way the first time is because if you're kind of given X amount of toys to play with, I wouldn't make a guess that we didn't probably saw Batman v. Superman saw the flashback of Lois is the key. They went too early and probably was like maybe that rang true in Bruce's head and he was like, Lois is how I reached this dude.

Lois is how I get to him. That's what I said. I didn't hate that moment in I didn't hate that. I thought it shows Batman has a backup plan. That's what Batman always does. He always has a backup plan. Because I was surprised. He didn't have Kryptonite, knowing that they're doing it

just in case, like, and Batman is always prepared with that. Like, just, there's a small part of me that was like, I think Bruce would have had a said plan, but I think there's something a little bit more organic to the revival of that like, she just was like, oh my God, I see him and that just that moment of them connecting. Because I would almost argue that maybe Bruce would have brought Martha based off of what happened last time that he's just like, hey, you're both.

Get your mom. Yeah. I agree with both these points, but I kind of think maybe Bruce, because he knows he has, he killed this man essentially. He had his reason for this. Like he's not going to, he's like, I've made so many mistakes. I'm not going to threaten this man again. And I think the lowest moment shows, and I'm a fan of the Martha moment.

I love that BVS. So I think it shows that in reverse where Lois again is the one that distracts. like comes in between them and it's lowest that says simply you know stop stop you know there's no moment so it's it's kind of you know martha would be i see what bringing martha in would be but this is lowest in the two of them and it's it's just flipping the dynamic with the two of them yeah and i was curious if when i was getting ready to watch this version if they were going to go more into why superman woke up not knowing where he was and just angry like i was curious if there might be a little bit more explanation there but there really wasn't he just kind of wakes up

doesn't know who he is and is like, who are these people? I'm going to tackle. Here's, I have a thought with this, but I want to give Janine the opportunity to plug her stuff because I know she has to take off. So Janine, tell the folks how they can find you. You can find me at Janine DeBean underscore on Twitter. Janine DeBean on Instagram. Check out the It's a Wonderful podcast feed.

We have three shows over there, Machine Mondays where I talk Shmowdown. Morgan hasn't seen where I forced my sweet co-host Morgan to watch things he hasn't seen. Right now we're talking the Karate Kid movies. And every Friday we have, It's a Wonderful podcast where we talk, So find that all places podcasts are found. We also have the It's Wonderful Podcasts YouTube channel, so we're doing more stuff over there. Check out my match today on the Schmodeon against Jader Peromo.

That's what's up. And yeah, I'll leave you with what was that terrible accent that Amber Heard was doing? Oh my God. It was so bad. Shots fired. Whoa! You're like, I'm out.

Yeah. Bonged up. All right, Janine, thank you so much for your Thank you so much for joining us. You have a good rest of your day. Bye. So the one thing that I noticed real quick, and then before we continue the discussion,

we got to do a quick ad read. One of the things that I felt JTE, what you were talking about with the resurrection and are we going to explain it more, I think that that was almost more of a nod to the Lazarus Pits in the fact that even though obviously that's not what this is, you know, every time anybody uses the Lazarus Pits,

they slightly lose their mind. Because the idea is that your body's revived, your soul isn't necessarily quite there in that regard. Like a piece of you was broken. And I almost feel like that was Zach taking a baby bit of that lore and throwing it in there. Just because if you think about it, that same kind of confusion and rage

is like the baser instincts. Every time that Ross Al-Gul has come out of that, the time the Batman's used it when Jason Todd came out of it, you know what I'm saying? That's always what ends up happening with that revival. So that would be my guess as to where was yeah but you got to bring that with you like there's nothing in the movie

even did that I see what you're saying I if Bruce had even said something on the lines of like this reminds me like it would have been yeah heavy-handed but if he's like this reminds me the Lazarus pits in you know and Amanda Parbat like if he had said something like that to connect it I could see that I agree with you but that's where my mind went yeah he didn't have to say lavish pit he's like they don't always people don't always come back you know you got to just said something a little along those because what were they think like I don't think they were expecting Superman to be resurrected and be like where am I what's happening I'm gonna fight these people like

it seemed like that wasn't really a discussion it just kind of happened and they had to deal with it in the moment which I guess makes it gives you a reason why Batman didn't have a backup plan in this version because I don't think they were expecting that have to fight Superman it reminded me like like kids with a science experiment like has donated $30 through super chat what's going on everybody great group of folks on screen right now. I really enjoyed the movie and thought it was super well done. Huge shout out to the homie Matt Thomas.

Spin from the real represent. That's what's up. Matt out here bringing the love. That's absolutely what's up. But sorry. Yeah, no, I just think they were like kids of the science experiment. Like, we don't know what's going to happen.

It's kind of like dropping the Mentos and the Diet Coke and running back like, what's going to happen? So they didn't know he was going to blast out of the machine. They didn't know if he was just going to come out of the water normally. water normally. So they're like, oh, it's reactionary. Like, we're on guard. So that's why they do keep their distance from them. And that was surprising. Like that was pretty much all in the theatrical cut. That whole, there were beats different. But the setup and you got to admit like love or hate 2017, the moment of flash running and Clark just turning his eye, that was brilliant. That's brilliant.

Yeah. Yeah. I'm glad. It was Zach Snyder. Yeah. No, I really love that honestly. And I, I'm glad that they kept that. But but the I really I hope that that's something that they continue like the only thing that I didn't like and I'll agree with the slow motion is if that is Flashes powers if you're gonna do slow motion say with Diana since she is also super fast maybe the slow motion isn't as slow you know what I'm saying maybe it's like a tick a tick faster so we can tell the difference and the same thing where soups at times has been as fast as flash, but I think even the idea of maybe the flash is just like a hair faster if he's tapping

into a little more of the speed force. Like I think that that would have been a nice way to differentiate since it is Snyder's signature to use slow mo in his action sequences, just differentiate for me so I can see how scaled these people are. That's just my take. But before we move on to the next part, we're going to talk about Wonder Woman Batman, Superman, all the baddies, all that good stuff. I got to tell you about stereo. Now the big thing about stereo, if you haven't heard about it, it is a podcasting at its best. It's two people talking. They're allowed to take messages like an old school radio show. You can just hop in there, leave questions to people. I know Mike has been using it. He does Christian and with Steph

Sabra for this old guy is getting into that stereo thing. You're getting into it. Yeah, right? Okay. So you've been doing the Sith Council thing on there. After every show of SCN, you have two people from SEM, typically Christian and Brett. They'll get in there. They'll mix it up. They'll take your questions directly, crack jokes, expand on things they talked about on the show. Stereo has been the place to do it. It is the place that if you have been looking to get into podcasting, you a thousand percent want to get in there and make it happen. So be sure to go to stereo.com slash Christian Harloff, follow Christian on there.

Again, that show happens every single time after S-EN, so you don't want to miss that. It's the same thing. We are all. You can follow us all. You can follow Dwayne, myself, J-T, Matt, Mike. We're all on stereo. you can check us out because we do our own shows, our own spin-offs and stuff like that.

But SCN every single day, the SCN after-party show, you do not want to miss it. Let me find out who's going to be on today. There was a question that I was supposed to have answered already, and I didn't know just because obviously after three hours of this, I gotta go to work so I can't be the one. But you do not want to miss it. If you're not on stereo, download the app immediately.

It is on iOS and the Android platform. Now, other than that, some of the other things to plug, as we talked about before, Janine the Machine, takes on Jada Parano, the Hurricane Paramo, today at 2 p.m. Pacific. You do not want to miss that. That is going to be live for everybody on YouTube at 2 p.m. And then the pay-per-view, the throwdown tonight, undercard, but to me is the main event,

because you know it's my boy, prime time, Paula Yama's taken on the beast, William Bibiani. They're going at it in singles competition on their road to win that singles belt. This is a major matchup for both of them. Is swag going to take it or is the quirky mercs? gonna get the best of us, you gotta watch to see. And then the main event,

the most prolific champion in Schmodeown history in Alex the Demon, going for his fifth title defense, his fifth in what, three years? He's crazy. Three years, yeah. Against the hunter, Andrew Demolanta. It is the quirky Merck's versus the stars.

It is going to be absolutely ridiculous. You do not want to miss it. That is a pay-per-view for the Schmodown. It's $10 or it's for the $10 patrons, you get that pay-per-view. And I believe it's also 10 just to have the pay-per-view by itself. We go to ShmodonLive.com to do that.

So you do not want to miss this. This match is going to be absolutely ridiculous. Both matches will. So definitely go in, check it out, hang with us. It'll be good times. And now back to the show. All right. So let's talk Superman.

Let's talk Batman. Let's talk Wonder Woman. Again, these are three characters that we've already had established in three other films, but they still got a moment to shine and grow. And I appreciate that that Zach did- Jeff Altamon donated $25. Hey, oh, I liked this version much more than the two hours cut, but I did miss Batman's lesson telling the flash to save one person that was a great hero moment.

Shout out to Matt from Spin from the Reel. Bro, they're all here for you. They don't care about the rest of us. They're all here for you, Matt. You, Matt. They're after show buddies. So hey, what can you do? That's what's up, man. That's what's up.

I do miss that element. But I think one of the things that was so cool was to see like Alfred, Batman, Lois, Martha, Superman, Wonder Woman. They're getting more character development. They're getting a moment to shine and to grow. But you're not trying to treat it like you're trying to reintroduce these characters. You're getting these moments where Bruce is like figuring out

what it means to be a leader, where Superman is trying to refixt find this humanity because obviously the resurrection has messed with his mind. The fact that like Diana is still adjusting to this other life and because she hasn't been backed at them as scarce since she left, what she's kind of absorbing from not only what she's learned, but the fact that just seeing that arrow has such an effect on her because it's essentially her mother communicating with her. Yeah. That's the only way that she's being able to communicate with her mother.

Mike, I defer to you first, man. Of the three, which of the three stories kind of really took, took you. in a little bit more. Well, I got to say, I'm a, you know, I'm a Batman guy and is tried and true or maybe is, I don't know what the word would be. It seems like he's a lot of people's favorites. That's the guy that I always, I turn up for. Like, I can watch a Batman movie without any villains.

If it's just him beating up on thugs, I'm on board. But he was just to see some of the things in Justice League, the original cut in here, just like, oh, what's the, what's the whole least after the stream? and beats him. He's like, oh, something's definitely broken or bleeding. I'm definitely bleeding. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What's going on? What's going on here? Like, and to see this, and like I said, one of my favorite scenes is him and that's just him and Alfred walking. Like, it's just the two of them talking. Like, I love that stuff. I love the scene with him and Alfred in the cave. I love that we got restored the fact that I knew through just pre-production.

Like, they were talking about the Wayne Enterprises hangar that was off away from when the Batcave. and that's what it was building. Like, so to see it, we didn't cut you're like, that's not the bad cave. Why are there windows? Like, what is this? So to see all that restored. And I got to say that last scene with Bruce, like I think Affleck personally looked great. I think this is, that was a reshoot, I think we did last year probably.

He looked healthy. He looked, you know, like that to me, he looked like Bruce Wayne. I was like, ah, I hopefully that's what we're going to see in the flash when he shows up. Like he just looked healthy and happy. And so for me, his whole stuff was like, and it just like, if, It was such a story. Like I look at these films as Man of Steel, BVS and now Justice. Like it's, it's Zach Snyder's DC.

That's what I look at as. Will we get more? I don't know. But just to see his faults as a human. And I love BBS. I love the fact that he's 20 years and he's at this point where he's broken, he's drinking. He's, you know, he's killing people.

It's like he's not who he was anymore. Now to find his humanity. And it's an alien that taught him his humanity is so powerful to me. So, yeah, he hit the strongest for me. I agree in the sense that I do appreciate that it took him developing a relationship with Superman to come back from the brink. I think that that was a nice little through line for sure. J.T.E. What about you, man, of the three of the Trinity, the Holy Trinity, which one really stuck out to you? I guess I'd have to go Wonderbroom. Like I said earlier, I feel like Superman and Batman's stories weren't changed that much,

or at least their arcs weren't changed that much compared to the We didn't. Again, the tone's different. You know, I love the fact that Batman got more to do in the third. act and the big giant well in this movie is probably the fifth six act i just love that he was more involved uh but like i feel like it was the main story arc was still there he felt bad about what happened with superman he's trying to bring the team together superman basically not the stuff that was out here didn't really change much uh the coolest scene for me was probably when he's walking through his spaceship and he's hearing his two fathers uh that dialogue was so great and him taking off, which was very similar to Man of Steel.

That was a great added scene, but when it comes down to at the end, he just comes and kicks ass, he just comes and kicks ass and takes no names. Like, that's exactly what happened in the week. Takes no names. Yeah. So, that's great. I really, for me, I guess I'd have to a wonderful,

because like you said earlier, the fact that even at point Steppenwolf is like, you should have been there when I killed your sister. He's like, he's like goading her, like, he left them behind and you're the only one could even give me a challenge. Uh, so for me, I'd have to go one or one. I mean, she really is the one in the very beginning where she sneaks in. She puts the arrow in and you start getting that whole dark side kind of, you know, I don't know, like the Egyptian drawings. What do they call us when

they raised up on the wall. Uh, high agglomics. Yeah, there you go. So for me, like, she had more to do. Her scene and her scene was way better, uh, when that whole kids are about to be killed. And people are, you know, why is she killing these people? This guy's unloading him, a K, something, a bunch of kids. This guy deserves to die. No reason.

Just for the hell of it, because they want to see the world burn. They just want to reset it. He literally had to reload. He's like, all right, I guess I'll get the machine gun. It's like, all right, great. That was a badass scene.

Which I know you're cutting stuff for time, like when you're doing the theatrical for 2017. I have no idea why you cut that moment with the little girl asking, can I be like you one day and you can be like you're losing 30 seconds for something that is so if that for something that is so powerful and speaks to who wonder woman is she not like she obviously inspires uh women like obviously there's there's there's no denying what she does for women and little girls the thing that i love and every time we've seen her iteration is that how she just inspires the world where they're like one of my favorite iterations was in i believe it was just

League War, the animated one, where a dude is clowning, he's at a protest like, Wonder Woman's the devil, she walks around in skippy outfits, how dare you? She puts the lasso on him and he's like, I like to dress like you because it makes me feel powerful. Yeah. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like the fact, like to not just have that moment, not only for that young actress, because that's a moment for her, like I was in Justice League and I got to talk to Wonder Woman,

but what that just me and what what Diana is, she's just me. she's not just to I'll chop off a bad dude's head that's trying to hurt the innocent, but that also she's standing there, strong, intelligent, beautiful, and little girls are like, can I be like, you one day you're like, girl, you can be whatever you want to be. Like that is so, how do you lose that? I don't even remember how the we didn't cut ended. She just throw the bomb in the air and all so that's it. She throws a bomb in the air.

The kids all get up and the cuts like right there. Cut right there, huh? Interesting. No. She slides with the bullets blocking and then she clings her bracelets and it cuts. Oh, that's where it cut. Yeah, it cuts without his hat dropping down, which is like brilliant. I do appreciate the fact that when she does it though, like at first I was like, isn't that overkill?

You're fast enough to get to him, Diana, but I appreciate they let us know the scale. She does that. That's as powerful as that bomb just directed outward, you know. Yeah, and they show it. They show the building just, But Matt, what about you, man? Of the three who really stuck out to you? I'm actually on the same page with Mike, and that is Batman, to see his humanity, especially considering like a lot of people's biggest complaints in Batman versus men was that he was killing people. He's trying to reatone for his past sins. He's all this, even though it's essential the same story we got in the theatrical cookup, he's only trying to undo the wrong that he did, which

which is honestly what a lot of us try to do in life when we make mistakes. So having Bruce own up to those mistakes and just try to do what's best for the world is what's honestly the most important thing and the most powerful thing for me when it comes to the story. Do you feel like that was crazy? And the we didn't cut? I feel like that story was. Yeah. And I said it was.

But there was more, you get more depth from it in this version of it. Interesting. Okay. Yeah. I think he was struggling. He wasn't bringing this. team together. He was like, he's like, I'm failing. I made a promise on this guy's grave and I can't do this. And for me, it just leads the back. Like Snyder, and I've talked about this with Christian on

on Sith counsel. Like the reason the most recent Star Wars films don't work is there was no plan. Like they didn't, you didn't need to plot everything up, but you needed a plan. And Snyder for love him or hate him, he had a plan. And he always said he's like, stick with me, man, stick with me, BVS. I, you know, it was like people like, this isn't true man. This isn't Batman. And he always had a plan of where it was going to end up. And I mean, to see that Bruce, his humanity is learned from an alien that not only enriches him, but enriches Superman of this man. Like, it speaks volume. So there always was a plan. We just had to get there. And, you know, we're there now for better for worse. No, a thousand percent, a thousand percent. And I'll speak to Superman real quick, because I would say

for me was also Batman was the most, the most compelling. But I'll speak to it in the fact that like this idea of him then refinding his humanity after Lois calmed him down so that, you know, him being on the farm and having the conversation with like that, that group hug with him Lois and his mom was beautiful. But then him going back to the ship and hearing the voices of all of his, both of his fathers guiding him and how they helped him become the man that he is and how he looked, if I remember, because I, at that point, I was cooking dinners. I was like sticking my head out and like trying to pay attention. And he sees his red and blue suit.

And he turns away. But then he turns to the black one. And what I, for those that want to know from the lore standpoint, the black suit is supposed to be one that actually allows for him to absorb more solar energy. So the idea is that he wasn't fully healthy yet. And that's where that was coming. While they don't allude to that in this in particular, which kind of sucks. The first thing he does once he puts the black suit on, though, it's literally goes up to the side. fly straight up to the sun to absorb.

So there's a nod to it. It's a nod. But we just don't, we just don't get the direct stuff. So I think that there's both a nod to us to know like the comic book fans. And again, we're like, oh. Yeah. Yeah. People say like he does, they always say like Zach doesn't understand the comics.

He understands like a lot more than than people understand like like it would have been a net. Like we talk about him coming out of the regeneration chamber. Like do we need to explain what's going to happen? This was him like, okay, the fans will get it. He's in the black suit. he's regenerating it would have taken a little more to do that and where do you fit that in right now i'll say it's a little surprising though at the very end when he's still wearing it's still wearing the black i was expecting that was interesting red and blue and i was like whoa do you guys

know the story behind that like originally i mean they shot it with the red and blue yeah but he had people on set going can we do this black if we need to i want to do it the studio's fighting me and his goal originally was like he'll eventually get back to the red and blue and earn it but like And JT. T.2, you were saying about the two filmmakers given the same project. We talk about Wonder Woman. Let's talk about the end in the theatrical. She leaps over him and cuts his axe, this sword. That head's coming off from her.

Like, the fact that it's her that does that. And I love that it lands at Darkseed's feet. And he just steps on it. I think we got to talk about Darkseed because he is such a presence over this whole film. Well, that was the next part we're going to get to. We're going to talk about all that. There was a lot of auxiliary characters that came in that that that shined the first one I would like to talk about before we even get to dark side is Steppenwolf The fact that he literally went from a joke of a character that's literally just there as a plot device to actually having a desire and a want a goal

So he was just trying to redeem himself you have you master understand his story. I don't want to feel bad for him, but you do see it. You're like oh this is you see with motivation right he's more badass the moment where he had all the arrows in him he just flexes him out I was like damn all right well even even to the point where you made him both stronger and a little bit weaker in this because I feel like in in the in the 2017 it was like nobody's even doing damage like like wonder woman punching him Aquaman's punching him like all sort of stuff he's like eh but like in this one they're all getting the better of stepping wolf here and there they just can't take him down down oh man

When he was underwater and he's cutting dudes and the water is just fill with blood. I was like, just those little things, which you know, probably gave it the R rating. It just makes him more menacing and more, it makes it feel more dangerous, really. He's taking dudes out. He's not just punching you across the room. He's like cut dudes. It added like one, they add the fact of why they go to Russia because it's toxic and they need that environment. And it the mother boxes, I think created a ticking clock where,

him having to get all three of them and like the one was starting to tear from the earth. The other was going to do the atmosphere. Like it kept this through land of the four hours like, oh, he's getting more. And when they would check back in with Desaad, which I love that way they communicated. He looked just creepy and eerie. And he's kind of mocking him at first. He's like, you're not coming back. Dark said is one thing to do with you.

When he gets to him, he's like, oh, okay, well, all right, maybe you're doing something there. And as soon as he fails, all right, all right. That's some simple crap where he goes, I knew he failed. I told you. You know, never, you say, take out the trash and his ass is like, I'm going to do what I'm going to do it. And then all of a sudden, the trash man go. Okay, now the cans didn't get empty. And now his ass got to sit.

See, I told your ass, mom. I told you, he ain't shit. He ain't never going to be shit. It's bullshit. Just like the Dallas Cowboys. It's so true. Hey, you shut your mouth. You shut your mouth.

How many rings the Browns have, huh? How many rings the browns have? You shut your mouth. But also to the, there's a few people that are already in the chat that are that are, that are calling out JTE because he's calling him dark seed. I said I say dark side. Oh, come on now. It is spelled like dark seed.

It is. That's true. It is dark side. I did say dark side earlier though. So that's true. I will go back and forth. So Super Guy was great. I like the girl.

I mean, they're all great. Yo, yo. Oh my God. Yo and Raccoon man, he was the best. Oh, he was just out here, like just. But for me, I think seeing, again, I love seeing Darkside. I love like that. And some people were asking, like they were saying they don't like Darkside as much

because they're like, oh, Thanos had a motivation. And Darkside did. Well, again, they made a tweet. It was a buildup. Right. It's a buildup. There's two things to play here. And I'm sure that if we got more of this, we would get more of Darkside's backstory

so we can understand where his mind's at. But they did that tweak and marvel because the initial thing with Thanos, then else didn't give a damn about balance for the universe. No. It was bloodthirsty and he was obsessed with Lady Death and he was like, I will prove to you that my love by murdering half the universe. How about that? And they were like, that doesn't fly.

So what we'll do instead is he saw his world go out because there were too many people. And so balance is the only way. So he's going to wipe out half the population, right? A great character development to do that, but whatever. For Darkside in particular, his obsession with the anti-life equation because he also is of the mindset that the only way the universe works, other than me ruling it, is through order. He is obsessed with the anti-life equation because the only way that the universe would work is through order. You use chaos to bring order, and that's how that works. So to go, it's not just the mother boxes, and I'm like bitter because the earth beat me one time, which can we talk about Zaddy Zeus for a minute?

Yeah. Oh, geez. Oh, my God. I actually went and watched that scene from the original Justice League. And it's literally the exact same animation. And everything's just cut, but in a different order. Right. And it's extended. I loved seeing the extended version of this because the stakes seem higher.

It seems, especially when you include Dark Side instead of it being stepping off. And you see that they actually nearly killed the man. Yeah. Yeah. A thousand percent. But the fact that you got that it's not only he's bitter about losing that battle to that world, but that he specifically was like once the anti-life equation is there, which has been his lifelong quest at this point.

Right. And now all of a sudden he has that stake. I think you brought those stakes into why Darkside is all of a sudden like, I'm going to have to F this planet up because you're not going to keep me from my prize. Right. Mike, what about you, man? Yeah. Like Darkside just, and I love the fact that they, I mean, it's interesting because like first

with Steppenwolf, like you see the design of him. And I don't know how far along in post-production they were before Snacknerner. was released and then reshot like how do you go from those two different designs like and the way he was in this film that was what the artists were showing back in 2016 they were teasing that like and even in the bvs cut with with lex luther in the motherbox you saw that's the design yeah and i don't know if it's weeding going up i'm doing my own thing or this is going to be cheaper and faster but it's you've changed the look of the apocalypticians like that they don't even look like that anymore so it that's massive like dark side and it was just enough

just enough of a tease, you know, we knew he was not the main baddy in this film, but we got behind him, we knew what he was doing. We knew like that shot of them with the heroes and he's looking through the boom to with them and they're basically like, no, don't come here. You're not welcome. And he's just like, well, they got what I want. So I'm coming. Yeah. So a thousand percent, a thousand percent. I thought that that was, I thought that that was such a nice little nod to it. And I think that's the only thing that I really wish is that we got a little bit more of him, whether that is a little more conversations or had we got in future movies just because of what he is. But I think that this was, this was the, like a very good amount

of it knowing what we got here. You know what I'm saying? I think that that was a good, a good use of him for sure. But it wasn't just a bad guys. We did get a shot of Granny goodness. She didn't get to do anything, which bums me out. She's, she's fun and of herself. I got so hype when I saw her in the trailer too. Yeah. Yeah, I think I mean they were like and again, um, you know, Snyder, I don't know if you guys saw they, there's an exhibit in Dallas, Texas by AT&T that Snyder's Justice League two and three work. Jim Lee did storyboards or designs of, of the outlines and you know where two and three goes and you know the new gods come in. And the third film is the new gods first humans, Atlanteans, Amazon's green lanterns.

It's uniting everyone against him. And you see. So, Granny Goodness would have come. Rebatch. Right? Was it like a massive, like this is. What we saw at the beginning of this one, where they all fought. Yes. It would have been like part two. It would have been like.

It would have been their end game. It would have been their end game. I look at it like Lord of the Rings. And Snyder always said like, this is Lord of the Rings. And you do feel that. Like I get the Lord of the Rings feeling. And it went to to say what you were saying earlier. You know, being in IG, like I have to watch those Lord of the Rings films ad nauseum.

And the theatrical cuts. add an hour, so it adds three hours to watching the trilogy. Do I go to the theatrical cuts more? Sure, but is someone like to say Rachel Cushing that loves Lord of the Rings, you go to the four hour cut all the time. That's your thing. Right, right. So I get, I see both sides of the cut of it.

I get it. And again, watching the film, I am drawn in enough. There is enough emotional connection and the story is moving that I don't feel the four hours while I'm watching it. I feel it the minute I am out of the world. And that was more the level of like, Jesus.

You know what I mean? Like it's not like there was moments where I was like, man, you're dragging your feet here. It's that I look up and I'm like, oh my God. Like that's more of where my mind was at with the timing. I think now that it's out, I think because I tried watching it the other day on HBO Max and you've got to fast forward of certain things.

I think like when the Blu-ray comes out or for streaming that you do is list the chapters now. So allow you to watch it all at once or just go, because this is a film, the chapter to chapter, you can watch, like you watch a couple, you come back later now that I've seen it. So which I wish they would even do that on HBO Max now that they like release it as yeah if you want here's the full thing from start to finish. But then here's also the options to watch the chapter like I think that that would

also work too just to give people that little space and brief because they actually did a good job with the chapters naturally they do a great chapter where it's like and now that is the end of this little sequence. Yeah they do a great job. I'll say this I'm waiting for that 4k Blu-ray because I'm still physical media guy and streaming just doesn't look as good as like having a physical copy. We talked about this. Yeah.

And I have a projector. So like I have 120 inch projector and when you project something streaming, it just doesn't look as crisp. The colors are. So when I get that 4k disc, I'm going to wait till the lights go down, put on that projector and I'm going to experience it almost in a new way. I feel like. Yeah, I'm with you on that, buddy. I'm it's still, you know, they might say it's stream. in 4k just there's just you're missing detail and stuff it's a little dull little

demo okay so before we get into the introduction of a of a new character let's talk about the amazonians um i think one of the biggest critiques that people had uh between wonder woman into 2017 justice league is like you're seeing this this entire tribe this entire island of powerful warrior women that are just kicking all sorts of ass like even the costumes of that they had in Wonder Woman and stuff like that. And then we get to 2017 and they go from what was maybe more practical armor and stuff like that to kind of like a more like sexualized version.

They're not really, I understand that it is Steppenwolf and the parademons, but they're still the greatest warriors on earth. So like you would expect that they would have a little bit more of their organization, their fighting ability, all that kind of stuff. I think while we still saw that they were outmatched in this version, we actually got to see the Amazonians be those badass warriors that they were. How did y'all feel about this

reimagination of the Amazonians in the Snyder cut? Was the line show us, show them your fear? Was that in the original cut? No. Because that line made the whole scene for me. Like that was, when that happened, I was like, show him your fear. I'm like, oh, they have no fear. They got no fear. This is Sparta kind of yell. Yeah, that's awesome. I love that you feel that because I talked to someone last night, a buddy of mine. And he's just like, oh, that line, like, what do they do they, do they rehearsed that. I'm like, no, that's the Amazon's, they're the Spartans. They're, like, that's being badass. They,

like, Joe and they're, this is it. This is the guy who directed 300. I know. When I'm watching them, I think like, because people talk about. How many billionaires does it take to create a superhero? Three, two to die and one to never get

over it. As a child, I always thought of my dad as a superhero the invisible man. Oh my God. And there is your SCN level of this that just came through with the jokes. Jesus. Holy shit. God.

All right. But Mike, Mike, what were you saying? I think he, Snyder gets a lot of flack or did when the original cut came up. We didn't know what was what. So to show kind of the scantily clad Amazon's, but even though the athletes that were the Amazon's in this film, they had such high praise of Zach. And they would say, you know, a lot of times we're looked at weird because of our bodies and who we are as women.

But we love Zach Snyder because he's allowing us to be who we are and he's showcasing us. So you think that Amazon, especially the ones in the tunnel that were cutting with just massive bodies and they're catching the stone. And they're how proud they are to see themselves on screen and celebrate it. And Snyder does it look at 300. It was all dudes doing the same thing. So it's not a sexist thing with him. It's just embracing the human body. Like, look at Zeus.

No, no. Look at Zeus. No, no, I get that. I think it was more from the standpoint of, and I understand, because I remember when women watched Wonder Woman, one of the praises they brought up was that, like, the armor that the Amazonians were wearing

in Wonder Woman for costume design would have been more accurate as far as what protection would look like and things like that. You know what I mean? Like, you're not worrying about, like, I know obviously the joke with Wonder Woman, she runs around in those boots. It's like, how do you do that in those boots?

It doesn't make sense. But, like, the idea that it was more a practical armor-type situation versus versus that but but I get that Snyder's thing but I think all women is there just back to 300 the why did the Spartans wear almost no armor it was almost like a but that's also a Spartan's war in history though yeah also and the reason it is because they were like we don't need that armor we're so skilled and deadly that the armor will just slows down in that scene though the women in the temple are armored right and the ones that are driving they're just the four of them that are the guards of the gate that aren't. So they are armored. It was,

they're armored, but it's a sexualized version of it. My girlfriend, she loves the Wonder Woman film. She even's like, she's like, why are they just basically wearing metal bikini tops? Like that's what she's like, she's like, why isn't it a, like the first Wonder Woman film where it's a, an ice full body, full chest plate, it just looks like a metal bikini top. Could it because of the times. I mean, back then, the 40s, you know, girls wore long dresses now. They're more. They got a little more sense of style, a little bit more like, hey, I'm a little more traditional now. It's in 2000.

I really, I'll say this. I really wish that Janine was still here instead of buying cubes talking about this. But, you know, I tried to get Steph and Sabrina, they were both working. So it happens, you know what I mean? But that's fine. Just bringing it up. We talk about it. We can move on.

Let's talk about the Martian Manhunter, man, because we got an opportunity to actually see him, realized in this universe it was a surprise. I was not ready for it. I don't know if anybody maybe knew something on the Lolo. But I was so shocked that he was there and I was so happy to see him because he's one of my favorite DC heroes, partially because my best friend's dad is,

my best friend from college, his dad is Carl Lumley. The voice of Martian, yeah, the voice of Martian from the Justice League cartoon and then obviously playing John's dad in Supergirls, in Supergirl they recast him for that one school so I just fell in love with the character because of that and so it was just awesome to see him I mean what were y'all thought seeing you know John Jones show up I mean I'll say I liked it I don't know if I love the design yeah yeah like something with the head had a little bit more of a I don't know was like

bumps I I like the character being there I don't know if I love the scene where he's playing Martha, I get it, but it felt a little bit like we need to get him in here. I like the scene at the end a bunch more because it's him revealing himself to Bruce Wayne, but I think I would need more time with the character to see if I really like the design. But just at first, it looked a little like, okay, yeah, that's Marshall Manhunter. Something looks a little off. Yeah. I actually agree with you, J.T.

Because I'm sitting there with my father and my co-host, and I'm just like, I feel like the Supergirl television design is better than this. That's fair. It looked this like out of all of this film, it looked like the most unfinished product when it came to CGI. I'll agree with y'all on that.

I think I'm more excited about the fact that Martian Manor is here. I agree with you the design did. I did kind of give a little like, you know, head tilts where I was like, that's an interesting choice, but I, but just having the character present and even knowing from the standpoint, which is very true

for John and multiple iterations where he obviously will do what he needs to do to save the world and stuff like that, but he kind of just wants to be left alone. He just wants to blend in and live is like, the fact that he only intervened just because he's like, Lois, you need to like kind of what, like stuff, you know what I'm saying? I appreciate that it was just that. And he didn't just come in and be like, all right, guys, I'm going to help you fight people. Like I don't need all that quite yet. Yeah, I think and I had found, I mean, this is a couple many years ago. Like I was on some spoiler, threads or whatever, just thinking like, I was like, someone had hinted like, what if Swanwick is

Manhunter? And it made so, if you go back and watch BVS and Man of Steel, you're like, oh, it makes so much sense the way he treats Clark. Like he treats him like an alien and, you know, and I love the fact that we don't know the backstory of this particular Manhunter. We don't know if his world was wiped out by genocide or by natural disaster like Krypton. You assume it's not natural because Mars is still be in our atmosphere. But you don't know why he's not coming out. Whereas Clark did, did and you, but you see the way Clark was treated. And he's like, well, I'm not showing myself. You know, he looks human.

I don't even look like this guy and he's getting treated like this. But then it leads to the fact of what Pa Kent said or with what Jorrell said, he's like, you will one day leave them in the sun. And he comes in various with the sun behind and with Bruce. He's like, he Superman brought these people the best thing. He's like, I can't stand by any longer. I need to come in. But I love what you said about like he wasn't going to join them in the battle.

He's like, I'll do something. And it leads to John B. a detective in that backstory of he knows these people like one of my favorite parts of the moment where he goes to bruce he's like your parents would be proud of you and someone goes well how did he know his parents he's like well one he's a telepath so he knows that but he's he is for however long he's been on earth he has been infinitely researching these people of who they all are so i thought it was a brilliant introduction to him just a tease of what we'll get eventually a thousand percent that's the problem one who might not get we probably won't get that

eventually i know that's probably my favorite thing when someone goes How he knows that Bruce was burned from dad. I'm like, you do know he can read minds. But I guess for people that, I have to remember sometimes, a lot of times people do come to these films without a comic background. So I try not, my instinct is like, he's a telepath dummy. But I'm like, wait a minute, no, they don't understand that.

I get that. Like I see a lot of people like, oh, so Darkside just Thanos. And I'm like, well, Mike, I don't know if I came before Thanos. That's what I'm saying. It's not reversed. Mike, no, no, Mike. I was like, I don't know if I believe that about you, not just calling people dummies.

see you with the studio like in full K.O. character. You're just like, I'm like, yo, it's character. Can I just say one of my favorite things about Martian Man Hunter and one of the things that I like so much, especially since we didn't get John Stewart is there's that there's that saying all the time that if, you know, anyone could choose to be anything. Why would they choose to be a black man or be black but the most powerful being in the universe chose to be black chooses to be black in America and I think that that is such a beautiful it's like just note and it's never really like touched upon because it doesn't need to be and it's interesting that you said because a lot of times you know people get upset with you

know thoughts of Superman being black or or whatnot but like man hunter was in originally white guy and it just made so much better storytelling like you said the reason why I'm making a black man so much better strength but there didn't need to me a point about it just changed I don't I couldn't tell you when it changed I have no idea when it changed in the comics or whatever but it's like it's such a better it's just a stronger point Mike I always get confused I'm trying to remember which which of the Martians between the white and the green was the green the green was the more was the the ruling kind of population and the white was kind of the minority yeah because the white

The white or what took over the Justice League in Morrison's run, the white Martians. Right. They're ultimately like kind of, but I'm trying to remember were they the oppressed? They were they oppressed and then. Yeah, the green were. So my guess is to maybe part of that while they changed that because a lot of the more modern with John and and McGahn dealing with it. Because McGahn obviously being a white Martian herself is this idea of trying to have more tolerance. I always went from the assumption that maybe seeing what the green Martians did to the white Martians back in the day, that he's trying to

almost atone and understand it from a standpoint of like, now I'm going to put myself in what would be considered a minority in a press group and kind of, you know what I mean? There's a part of me that always kind of thought that that's where that connection was for sure. Yeah. So, but either way, I'm glad we got to see him a little bit. I hope we got to see him more if this does revive one way or the other. Let's real talk. Let's We kind of alluded to the epilogue. Let's talk about the epilogue. Let's talk about Snyder's vision, and then we'll kind of wrap it up.

And even though we said we weren't going to read any of those stream labs or whatever, if we get through all of our thoughts and there were ones that were under the $20 or $30, we'll try and answer a couple of them. But again, Schmobots at 30, sorry, Schmobots at 20, super chats at 30 to be read out loud. But let's talk the epilogue. We get an initial kind of cutscenes of all the heroes and what they're now doing. Barry has got his criminal justice degree and now he's going to go work at you know

and do the job that we know him to do as far as a crime scene investigator which is dope I'm trying to think everybody Mike again having seen this the one time you're probably better at remember well Diana is look at the they should they they they allude to Diana getting away back to them ascare she's out on like like it looks like a cliff like a bluff looking out at the ocean and I I want I'm trying to remember like I know I know that I know in two and three, she learns how to come back to the Mascara. So this was her realizing that, okay, she's going to head back there. You know, Bruce and Marsh, her manhunter had his thing.

Clark had his ending. Cyborg. He accepts himself. He rebuilds the tape and starts listening to it. Yes, yes, yes, yes. That was beautiful. Yeah. Your father twice over.

Your father twice over. My father was crying or crying watching that scene. That hurt me too, or not hurt, but like emotionally just hit me just because like, I have a good relationship with my dad now. I didn't have one growing up. So there was this, we've had conversations where it was like before you were kind of just my father biologically and in the moment when you actually like became my father, like that we've had that kind of conversation.

So having that talk, like him reliving that now that his dad is gone and rebuilding the tape and listening to what his dad had to say, that was just so, so beautiful for you. for me. And to that Star Labs thing, and this kind of goes to you guys. Again, I kind of bring this out there, like, Duane, you brought this up. You know, people for whatever reason, if they want to bash this film or if they want to bash the year. And I know the Snyder Bros are, that's a toxic group themselves.

You know, it's a different thing. And they cause problems. But if you think it might be a bad idea for this film, it made or whatever, it caused a bad presence. But look at the fact that like now we have five actors, five actors of color, who's roles were completely cut out of 2017 are now like Ryan Choi is the Adam gone 17 gone the mom gone yeah iris gone like Martian Manhunter martian manor like and you see the things now people are like with stuff that comes out you don't want to i want to separate that but they're like

well who was directing it what are the allegations that have been happening why were these roles cut what's the through line and it's true so i'm like okay you might not like this film or whatever but at least try to celebrate at least try and celebrate five actors of color having their roles restored like that's a big thing you know and the characters they're great characters it wasn't just hey we've got to do diversity because this and that's why i was cut i don't believe in that it's like no ryan choy is a great character in gal simon who created that character she's been raving about that like it's important and it matters and you know to see that character and to see silas and And Eleanor Stone, like, you know, it speaks volumes.

I think of Zach Snyder's a filmmaker. And that's why, yeah. So a thousand, a thousand percent. And I think that that's the whole thing is because, you know, I already see someone in the chat to be in an ass and be like, who cares about color, care about it in the sense that like, not only with representation mattering, think about how deep each one of those character stories actually was.

And what we got getting to explore that, getting to explore still within, like what makes a good superhero movie, in my opinion, is sure you have the fantastical, the powers, the super speed, the strength, all that kind of stuff, but it's how that can tie into a very human story from like how we can connect to it. So to have cyborg in a situation where it's like,

he can help somebody out that's in need like that and using his ability to manipulate electronics to just magically make money, that's a beautiful thing. That's an absolute beautiful thing. The fact that Ryan Choi, again, being one of those, being one of the iterations of the Adam, and everything that has to do with his powers and ability

and skill set, that's all stuff. That's such a huge deal. That is a massive deal. So that's why it matters. But for me, it's like, and I get we find characters relate to DC and Marvel where we find them in our lives. Like to me, Hal Jordan is Green Lantern. But there's a generation that John Stewart

from the Justice League cartoon, And John Stewart, Jack Snyder said, he's like, that was gonna be my lantern, John Stewart. And I'm like, ah, I wanted Hal Jordan. What, I've got five other white guys in this film. I think, you know, it's, okay, Hal could take a back seat. But both that, but because the lantern core, they do switch them out pretty frequently.

Like, you could always- A great character. He's not a shoehorn. Right. He's a great character. Exactly. So I do appreciate the fact that there was, when you got that pushback about, you can't have John Stewart,

because we're going to do something else with the lanterns, that they did include the Martian Manhunter. Manhunter. For that, I thought that was a great compromise in order to do that. Because again, and that's the other thing in Zach's mind, the fact that for him, inclusion like that is important to Zach as well.

I think that that's such a huge thing to know that that's where his mind is at. And because I think that's the other thing that people don't remember, the world isn't just one particular thing, unless you're doing a subset of the world like Wakanda, which makes sense, but if you still notice,

Even though the stories about Wakanda, you still, there was acknowledge with to be like, well, Claw, he'd be out here being white. You would have, you would have, God, why can I remember his name all of a sudden? Martin Freeman. Ross. Thank you, Ross.

Agent Ross, you know what I'm saying? How that affects the world as a whole? We're not gonna sit here and pretend like, well, the only people at this point are just black people. But then the Kanda, yes, but they still are affected by the rest of the world around them. So to not pretend like the rest of that doesn't exist, is an appropriate thing to do.

But I had said this before. I think the tone of the epilogue, especially because these scenes almost felt like deleted scenes that were kind of being plugged in. They're not fitting your typical post credit because they're longer. I think that if you wanna find a way to save your time, that's where the cut can come.

You do a little bit of the epilogue stuff that you did with the characters that we've already seen. But then I think that that's where you can like literally ends with this. And here and boom. And I think that that's brilliant. I know, Mike, you feel a little different. So I do.

I mean, that's where the Justice League movie ends is all I'm saying. Like that's where the Justice League movie ends. And then everything you get after that is kind of like extended after. For one, it's like for one, that's how we didn't end his hits. Yeah. So you're like, oh, was that was the. There's a Superman open. So that's how he ended his.

You're like, all right. And I get again, it is, it is it just a, hey, I'm, Warner Brothers. this gave me 70 million and I'm telling my film I can't I don't think I'm getting two and three that's not a conversation we're having right now totally I love the fact that like he's teaming up with Desrogue and Joker he knows like you know and he said he's like you know people are upset at me because I just put the Robin in the suit and the DVS and that was it's like well I wanted to give a little nod I wanted to fill that story with this with the Joker and then the fact that Bruce's like yeah well Harley hardly died in my arms she made me a promise and I will hold

this promise I will fucking kill you like he's back to who he was before like he's gone like his world is like I love the fact that mayor was there carrying water around with her like that was brilliant like for me it it led like you said to injustice like you know I I love that stuff I love different takes on the character and that's kind of what I want to ask you guys do you feel if this film if Snyder was given the go ahead from Manistiel and said all right guys we were announcing a five film slate man to steal bvs justice league one two and three this is Snyder's films would they have been better received because people have a

problem with like bvs you're like this is not superman this isn't batman to me but because it was his take no when donated 30 dollars through super chat might hear my news about anything dc related seriously bro not hitting on you lull just saying Zach Snyder told me last night in the live queue and a watch party that they I did. They did shoot a scene with John Stewart but was fully cut. Who would have played him? Who was playing him? I wonder if they used to body double made. Well, no, they wanted to show his face.

Like, maybe they gave Tyrese's wish. No. What do you want? No, man. Please don't make, don't make Tyrese. Don't make Tyrese. Hey, Winston, you make Tyree strokes every Tuesday and Thursday. I just had to put it out. But Mike, finish your question.

Is your question. Do you guys feel his films would have been better or see? Because like, look like Winston, to injustice. I don't think anyone went into doing justice, played that game. It was like, no, that's not Superman. That's not Batman. They killed you. You went in knowing it's a different take.

And you went along for the ride. So if we knew these are going to be five films, we're not building off spin-offs. This is a contained universe. And I know we're in an MCU world. I know filmmaking has changed to where general audiences want connectivity. They want to know what's going to build to what?

I'm curious. I'll put it to you this way. I get what you're saying. And I think what made injustice work, and we only have about five minutes. So after we kind of answer this quick, I want to get everybody's final thoughts. I think knowing so deeply how their M.O.'s and their behaviors and their mindsets are tied to it, you kind of need to not just allude to Robin got murdered and that did it because remember, Jason Todd was murdered by the Joker before and he didn't go off and just start murdering people.

That's not, they like, he came, he started doing that in Dark Night, uh, Dark Night returns because he has fully lost his full rope. People have become so infinitely violenting. Now he's old and cynical and that's where that's kind of coming from. So I think my only thing with that, because I know there are people that hate injustice. I don't, I'm not one of them. I think that that comic storyline that it's awesome. They're like, that's not Superman.

Superman would never do that. I'm like, but that's the point. You put him in a situation where he lost everything dear to him. What do you? There is a breaking point that we all have mentally. and to lose it all simultaneously at his own hand it actually makes perfectly logical sense in my opinion all it takes is one bad day and he does what batman could never do and kill the joker like that too oh man and so to me i think if you would if you would at least give me enough set up as far as like

bruce like let me see everything that bruce has actually like kind of lost i don't need to see him losing his parents again but give me a moment even if it's a flashback instead of just seeing the suit if it's a quick flashback of how brutally Jason Todd or who whichever Robin that was supposed to be was murdered that would start to piece it to now all of a sudden it makes a little more set because maybe it was a Bruce was being a little too nice to a two to too nice to a couple of thugs okay and then boom in that moment Robin gets killed and now he changes his code yeah that would do it for me um that's me I don't know if anybody feels differently No, okay.

Yes, not. We got about four minutes, so let's get final thoughts. I'm going to start with Matt. Just final thoughts and takeaways from the $20. Thank you so much. The bigger talk we need other than seeing more of the Snyder versus its status as part of the Tsukannon. Zach said that it's not and WB hasn't commented yet on the status, but other two directors

said they're following Snyder Cutters canon. Thoughts? I don't know about that. source. I remember Zach Snyder saying that Warner Brothers made it clear to him when they allowed him to do this, that this is not going to be canon. 2017 is going to be the canon we use going forward so yeah he said that in several interviews yeah right and i actually got into it got into it with someone yesterday because like no the flash is going off of this movie i'm like i follow this stuff daily the flash is not going off of this movie the flash was made before which i which i also think it makes more sense to go with the 17 especially from the standpoint of you're about to you're you're

you're literally going to use flashpoint as a retcon we've already we're already pretty aware as any flashpoint story has been told that is how you reset a lot of stuff. What was going on? Could they use Flashpoint to reset to the Snyder? It's possible. It's honestly possible. I think they're running into a problem because I think for everyone that sees this film, 2017's Justice League doesn't exist anymore. Yeah. I think this is the film now. So, but again, the story is the same from point A to point B.

The core story is the same. So it didn't do some drastic change. So. Right. I agree. It's just that. Instead, now, like, oh, do the, It almost does feel like an alternate universe because obviously in this one,

we didn't have flash just falling into boobs just because it was funny. You know what I'm saying? I'm glad we cut probably the stupidest moment of the 2017 version. And just all the gratuitous shots at Gallagher Doe. You didn't want to say it at the time because this is Snyder's film,

but you're like, oh, oh, no, they purposely shot her ass several times. And Snyder has the same shot, but it's above her waist. And you're like, okay. It says, it's a lot. It says a lot for sure. But Matt, final thoughts?

No, overall, I like the film. I'm not as high as high on it as others. I probably rank it as my number four in the entire DC-you-film canon, even though it's not canon. It's powerful. The backstory you get, how Flash and Cyborg are fully thought-out and well-rounded characters make a huge impact,

especially considering one of them as a mind. minority and you see what his story could have been. It's just heartbreaking to see what happened to it. But overall, I'm happy with the film. I'm glad we got to see it. And I am glad I was proven wrong about there being no Snyder cut. Yeah, no, for sure, for sure. Dwayne, I'm curious about your thoughts, man. Final takeaways. I really enjoyed this a lot more than I thought I was going to. I still had some of the problems from the 2017. I think Ezra Miller falls flat a little bit in some of his quips as Barry. They just, I'm sorry, but it's hard to beat Michael Rosenbaum. Like, he does it so well.

So I think that falls a little flat for me a little bit. I loved the expansion of the Amazons and everything that happened on Demascara. I think that that was probably my favorite part of the film. That and then the expisional flashback to the original team up, I think we're two of the best parts of the film. Sadie Zeus, dude, I'm telling you, give the old gods their own film, bro. Let's go. I want to know what happened to make Ares hate humanity so much.

I'm very curious. That actually is a very solid point. It might be fighting over. it might be him watching them fight over that one mother box. Amniqui $1,408 donated $25. I asked my wife if him a superhero in bed. She said yes. The Flash.

I'm the one that did the other jokes too, lull. Wow. Damn. Ouch. Self roast. It reminds me of that hot girl roasting the Justice League animated show. But on that note, I would say seven out of ten, I think this is either four or five for me. Okay.

Word. All right, JTE. Your final thoughts, man. Yeah, this movie to me was a gift and a curse. I finally got to see the Justice League movie that I wanted to see. It had the scale and the tone that I wanted from the first few films. It felt epic. It felt epic like a team up movie should.

But I'm also left with this knowing that we're probably never going to get this full trilogy except for some storyboards that you go look online to me that it's it's sad the biggest thing for me i wish we could go back in some form of this movie could have made it to theaters back in 2017 with zach Snyder making his cut like think about it three hours and 30 this moment happens around 330 there's a there's 30 minutes you could cut down and make this a three-hour film end game was three hours the fitting world was almost three hours there is a world where Zach Snyder three hour cut when it came out and I think people would have been on board and they would have been a hit critically you also could have gone you

also could have gone Matrix reloaded in revolution and then and go cool here's one give the other one in six months and I I think you stick with the three hours you want to he said he wants us to be like his Lord of the Rings Lord of the Rings reached about three hours long there's three of them let's do three Justice League movies will make them epic and to me this movie proves that he could have done that yeah this movie proves he could have pulled that off yeah and it kills me that we're not going to get those other two there's a maybe there's a small teeny chance but this was a very different situation where the movie was shot he had everything he just needed special effects

he didn't take any money to work on this Snyder said he got complete freedom didn't take any money it was a passion project i just don't see Cavill and all these actors coming back to do HBO Max movie, especially Ben, Ben seems like he's done with it. Yeah, he's coming back for probably a cameo in the flash point. But I just feel like everybody has kind of moved on. And this was Zach Snyder's final gift. But like I said, it's a gift, but it's a curse because what could have been? Yeah, that's true.

Mike. Yeah, that's so well said. If I've learned anything over the past few years, it's never say never. I always said it's like Affleck's not coming back. He's done with the role. You know, I said the Snyder cut, my take on it was 20 years from now, we'll see it, like the Donner cut. You know, he'll come back and revisit it.

But here we are. I kind of think that I think there's some conversations. I think happening probably at Warner Brothers over the next week or so going, because this thing's going to be massive for that. It's a massive hit. It'll be a huge hit. It's the only thing most people have talked about for a year now, whether you love it or hate it, it's been the talk.

It was a one smart decision to do. Like JT said, like he took no more. money, he kept production houses, visual effects houses in business for a year. Like these companies would have been gone, you know, or visual effects always go under instantly when they don't have a job because they're so, you know, the way they're brought up and whatnot. But right. So here we are.

I mean, look at, look at HBO Max. As a service, it's great. But they really don't have their own content per se like Disney Plus has got this 10 years of Marvel, 10 films of Marvel and 10 shows. They don't have the content. per se of you know to build up after this what happens after this year when this theatrical day and date with home video is gone you know they need content and do you look at it going okay let's we're not doing theatrical for you we're let's do two and three streaming service films or or chapters

we build chapters like if you hear about the cast and crew they love Snyder they love yeah yeah yeah i don't not see them coming back if he bring if he's able to bring them back i don't think it i don't know what's going to happen i know the plan is there they have it they don't need to kind of create all new stuff do you think cavil and aflick would come back and shoot like because if they shot say two and three back to back it would be at least a year do you think those guys would do a whole year of shooting i think aflick is kind of saying goodbye you're right yeah there's so much but like you said like you mentioned early maybe if it's animated there was talk of doing it with jim lee as a comic it got shut down but this was years ago

before even the Snyder Cup movement happened. But Jim Lee's like, he's even said, he's like, if there's interest, we'll talk about it. Like, it could be a massive comic book. I think the animated is the way to go. I think so. I think so. Do it like the looks.

They would come back to voice it if they could come back to voice it. Yeah. So I think, I don't think this is done, whether it's live action, comic, or animated. I don't think it's done. Yeah. I'll just say that. I can totally see a comic book for sure.

No, I can see that. So last thing, because we got to get out of here. I personally would probably give it a nine out of ten. Now that's off of one view. I do need to watch it a second time because I think I'm that person that gets very influenced by the first time I see a film because I don't take notes.

And I make sure I see it a couple times before I do something like that. I come back so I could change, but I can say my initial thoughts for me personally again, not that it felt like four hours, but I've said this multiple times throughout this show today that I felt the real world implications of the four hours,

if that makes sense, versus the pacing of it. Sure. So trimming it that way. But it was so amazing. Again, I don't necessarily like how we got to this place. I thought that there was a very interesting tweet where someone put out. You see how we were able to bully our way into the Snyder cut. That's wrong way back in the sidder.

That disgust me. That's disgusting. The fact that you have the term bullying in it by itself proves that it's a problem. And I get why the Snyder cut over the year has gotten such hate from certain people because there are the people like that that are bullies. they call Snyder King, that's toxic and it's awful. A thousand percent. Bull, you're like, it's awful.

Right. A thousand percent, but what I will say that I appreciate about that this finally came to fruition was to just see an artist fully realized idea. A lot of people do not realize how much a studio will put their hand into the project. Like, ask any writers. A writer writes something, it's their vision, and then once it's sold, what they wrote, looks like an abomination to what they wrote one way or the other whether it's good or bad it's not the film that they wrote same thing with the director and the cuts that they have to give when the

studio makes there like there's so many little things that change so to see an unadulterated just film from a creator that was just allowed to run was a beautiful beautiful thing and it will go down in cinema history just because of how we got to this point in the first place so with that dwayne let me just add one thing go ahead jt go ahead you imagine showing this four-hour cut and then the Warnerberg is saying it has to be two hours. It's a no-win situation. It's a no-in situation. I couldn't imagine. A thousand percent. So hit that music, Dwayne. Thank you so much to everybody that rocked with us for three hours today. Shout out to Mike Kalinowski, Matt Thomas, JTE, Janine the Machine, Dwaynebergh. Y'all have all been phenomenal. Koi Janger, who was on for Falcon and the Winter

Soldier. Yes, sir. Thank you to everybody that watched both of these shows. If you haven't seen the content, I don't know why you sat here and let us spoil both of these things for you. But go and watch them for sure. They'll take a new perspective on it now. New perspective when you walk in. 2 p.m. Pacific, do not forget. Janine, the machine takes on Jeter, the Hurricane Paramo in a Smodon match. The pay-per-view tonight.

Polo Yama, prime time, Paula Yama versus William the Beast Bibiani, and Alex the demon takes on the Hunter, Andrew Demalanta for the Star Wars Championship. Don't miss that. Everybody have a wonderful, blessed weekend. You take care of yourself. You take care of each other. Be healthy. Be safe. We love you.

Deuces. And go check out. Christian and Kaiser on stereo right now. On stereo right now. There we go. That is who was doing it today. Hit him up. That's what's up.

Hey.