The Last American Vagabond - Dennis Kucinich Interview - Trump's Iran War Blunder & Its Threat To The American Way Of Life

Episode Date: April 22, 2026

Joining me today is Dennis Kucinich, here to discuss the US government’s ongoing war against Iran, the illegal nature of the attacks, and the role that Israel, Netanyahu personally, and Zionism played in the creation and elongation of this war. We also discuss the possibility that there may be a larger design behind the war, and what those designs may be from a domestic and international perspective.Source Links:(21) Glenn Greenwald on X: “March 21: Trump said he’d “obliterate” Iran’s power plants if they didn’t open the Strait within 48 hours (they didn’t, so he extended it by 5 days). March 28: Trump again extended the deadline by 10 days, claiming Iran asked (they didn’t). He said he’d obliterate their” / X(21) Zachary Foster on X: “Shiran Mlamdovsky Somech is an Israeli founder & CEO of a company called “Generative AI for Good.” By “good” they actually mean “evil.” Since they’ve been caught creating fake AI victims of fake sexual assaults to pin on Iran to convince US Americans its ok to murder hundreds” / X(16) Jvnior on X: “Trump is begging Iranian leaders to not execute 8 AI-generated women. This is the funniest thing I’ve ever seen. https://t.co/bZWzLksf15” / X(10) Furkan Gözükara on X: “Prof. Mohammad Marandi confirms Donald Trump intentionally sabotaged the ceasefire. Iran agreed to open the Strait of Hormuz, but the White House arrogantly refused to lift its illegal siege on Iranian ports. The Trump administration is entirely responsible for the crisis. https://t.co/1fATdjq7Ez” / X(10) Fox News on X: “🚨 BREAKING: Iran has reportedly attacked multiple ships in the Strait of Hormuz after President Trump extended the ceasefire. | @MattFinnFNC @foxandfriends https://t.co/uh6l7s2DKw” / X(10) The Kobeissi Letter on X: “BREAKING: US oil prices rise above $93/barrel after Iran says they have “no plans” to attend peace talks with the US on Friday. https://t.co/MNIAZ47tZM” / XNew Tab(9) The Last American Vagabond on X: “Just going to deliberately misinform everyone? The IAEA publicly stated Iran had “more than 400kg (1000 pounds)” “enriched up to 60% U-235” and that their “stockpiles remain under safeguards in accordance with Iran’s comprehensive safeguards agreement.” https://t.co/Ha1krgKhSF https://t.co/JnzAKbuppI” / XBitcoin Donations Are Appreciated:www.thelastamericanvagabond.com/bitcoin-donation(3FSozj9gQ1UniHvEiRmkPnXzHSVMc68U9f)The Last American Vagabond Substack is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. Get full access to The Last American Vagabond Substack at tlavagabond.substack.com/subscribe

Welcome to the Last American Vagabon. Joining me today is Dennis Kucinich to discuss the ongoing Iran war, the many different points of discussion we can get into from the illegalities of the starting of the war, to the discussions of the ceasefire, to the lies of the Trump administration, just to get into how chaotic it all is and just to have a good conversation. How are you, Dennis? Hey, Ryan, good to join you. And I look forward to our discussion.

Yeah, thanks for joining me today. You know, I think you've been doing this a long time. You know, you've been in and out of the government. You have a unique perspective on all this. So I figured it'd be good to get your take for my audience. That may not be familiar with your work. So let's just kind of start, you know, where's your mind in all this? Let's start with whatever you feel is most important around the many different things we could discuss some of the ongoing Iranian conflict.

We're in one of the most dangerous periods in world history. That, you know, I know for some, that sounds like an overstatement. But when you look at the arc of history and at the decline. of civilizations, and particularly when we're speaking of Western culture, of which America has been a major exemplar. We have militarized our society, and in pursuit of militarization, since World War II, America has been involved in overturning countless governments, most notably, Iran, Libya, Iraq, of course, or not, well, attempted. They overturned Iran when they knocked out Mosaddegh in 53.

And the Iraq war, which I led the effort against, the overturning of Gaddafi's government, which I also led the effort against. And now this adventure in Iran, which could bring the whole system crashing down. That's how dangerous it is in so many ways. It's dangerous militarily. It's dangerous economically. It's dangerous in energy supplies. It's dangerous in forming trade blocks that the United States will be shut out.

or have limited participation is dangerous to the US dollar, to the petro dollar, to the elasticity of the US economy, at a time when there are signals that there's instability in the economy because of what's happening in private credit markets. Look, this is the wrong war, the wrong time, and I'm glad to join you, so that we can unpack some of the many foibles and miscalculations that have resulted in where we're at right now in a period of ceasefire where the U.S. policy has stumbled into what I guess in chess,

Zug-Lang where you don't have a move one way or another. You're kind of trapped. Right, right. Well, I mean, since you mentioned that, you know, the intelligence was clear. It's been widely discussed. So one thing that there's two ways to look at this in a broad sense, you know, is that obviously you have the U.S. interests and agendas and, you know, what the U.S. government seems to be fighting for.

And then you've got more of the, and there's many nuances to that, too, and, you know, just get into. But then the point of the larger conversation. And I want your thoughts on this before we get into the smaller view is do you feel that there's any other factors than just the typical foreign policy conversations? And there's many views on that alone, but just in your mind, is there a larger drive to, you know, let me put it simply. There's a lot of very high-level conversation about whether some of this might be about trying to reimagine the way the global structure works or redesign the way the global energy flow works. Do you see anything like that or do you feel that may be a secondary agenda? How do you see that fitting into it?

Well, there's no question that there's an attempt to agglomerate the U.S. acquisition of oil and gas supplies using the U.S. military as a weapon. I mean, that's clearly what happened in Iraq, in Libya, in Venezuela. And of course, Iran has access to oil. And in that region, the oil is much cheaper to bring out of the ground than it is in the US. So, yeah, energy policy is one factor. But I think in this case, in this case, there's another element.

And that is the influence of a metastatic Zionism, which has been advanced in the United States by various groups, famously. So APEC, the American-Israeli Political Action Committee, which has purchased support in Congress for a far right-wing agenda, which has unfortunately, has unfortunately, involved genocide in Gaza, ethnic cleansing and theft of lands as well in the West Bank, a murderous attack on South Lebanon and in the North as well, and the bombing of Iran. you know, whether Israel leads the dance at time or the United States leads the dance, they're dance partners. And it has, it is a toxic relationship that has resulted in the deaths of countless innocent people.

and a diminution of America's role in the world. And I would, and Netanyahu, who, you know, sat in front of me in a committee meeting 24 years ago, where he promoted the invasion, the attack and invasion of Iraq, this is part of his plan as well to attack and dominate Iran. and he made several trips at the White House to encourage or even entice President Trump to execute that attack. And it has blown up in the administration's face and has trapped them in a war, which is not going to be easy to extricate from, particularly if they, make the decision of ending the ceasefire and continuing the bombing because the one thing about Iran, unlike Iraq, Iran has the capacity to fight back in a way that the U.S. should have known

and with the consequences for Israel and the entire Gulf region. Yeah, I completely agree. And, you know, the Zionism part of it is a different element on top of all of it. with the prophetic sort of perception of how this all leads. And I was more so addressing sort of like trumps and more so like the, you know, just the idea of control over these systems and whether that might be driving the military side of it. But the Zionism element is absolutely a part of what I see all that playing out into. And so it's just interesting to wonder whether or not there's some larger plan around it,

which we could theorize about. But let's take it back to the original part of this, because this is one part that I was interested to discuss with you in particular, is the legalities of it all. Like, I'm still confounded by where it is right now. There's been a couple pushes. Both the House and the Senate have had something happened, but both are voted down in regard to trying to, you know, using the War Powers Act.

We, you know, there's no authorization for military use. There's no congressional approval, and there was no imminent threat. So I just, you know, I've confirmed. We have to confront it as Americans, but what that really shows us. You know, how do you get around that? What are your thoughts on that? Is that Congress, I'd be getting its duty? Is that, you know, how do you see all that playing out?

Well, you know, I spent 16 years in House of Representatives. I sued three presidents over their misuse of the war power, President Clinton, George W. Bush and President Obama. I've seen the executive branch, and this has been going on since Nixon, at least, assume more and more power over Congress by basically taking initiative in various policy areas and ignoring Congress. Congress has authority, doesn't assert it.

There's partisan reasons for that. There's campaign funding reasons for that. There's the influence of these various groups, one of which I mentioned, that plays a role. The founders of our nation made it abundantly clear. They put the war power in the hand, of the Congress. Article 1, Section 8, Clause 11, Congress was given the authority right from the beginning of our country to take this country from a position of peace to a condition of war.

And Congress has ignored and failed in its responsibilities. We have a constitutional crisis in that regard. We have one branch of government that's dominating. both branches and the third branch and its influence in the judicial side is something that is also very troublesome. So, yeah, it's illegal. No question about it. It's illegal not only with respect to the U.S. Constitution. It's also illegal with respect to international law. We do not have the right to threaten, let alone to bomb another country just because we're America. and any treaties that we cite, including the Geneva Convention, become part of the law of the United States of America. So this administration in particular seems to care less about the restraints of federal,

constitutional, or international law. But they still have taken it upon themselves to execute an attack on a country, kill its leader, which a religious leader at that. And to murder 168 school children in Menab, Iran, no apologies. This is, I don't think that Americans truly understand how dangerous this attack, this preemptive. attack on Iran is, not was, is. Because what we have done is to show that we not only don't we not care about law, we don't even care about the lives of children. And that's reflected also in the funding of the genocide that we do with respect to helping support the Israeli government

in its activities in Gaza and in the West Bank, as well as in Lebanon now. So you You know, yeah, this really raises the question about what does law mean? Right. Is it just, are we just in an era where it's all about rule of force? And if that's where we are, what makes us think that we're the only country that can do that? Right. That's a big concern of mine, you know, whether it be Israel or any other element out there, which all governments in my mind are capable of all of this, if given the opportunity and the power,

that this will just become the new norm. and then I wonder, is that the objective? You know, maybe from the mind of the biggest military in the world, that seems like the right path. But I still don't even think that that's where the, you know, let's take a thought experiment in that direction and say that does become the norm. Do you think that the U.S. government would be, maintain its preeminence, militarily or otherwise? Look, let's go over the step by step. A well-armed military certainly gives a country, any country, with malign intent, the ability to perform theft, piracy out in high seas, grabbing resources, oil, water, gold, whatever. I mean, this thing's been going on, you know, throughout human history.

The United States, under this administration, has shown a willingness to disrespect the very principle of sovereignty, which then opens the possibility of grabbing Venezuela's oil, of threatening to just take over Greenland, of threatening China and Mexico, and threat, threat, threat, threat. you know, wait a minute. A country that doesn't, that's what's happening with this administration, is creating enemies all around the world. Allies have turned against us because of this conduct of menacing, threatening, and using tariffs as a weapon.

We, all of our policies, are reflecting an instability that comes from inside the administration and, and like, dissecting fractures in an earthquake. And it, where does it lead? Not to anything that's good, that's for sure. Right. And obviously, it goes without saying it's completely antithetical to everything we pretend this country represents, right? And that's what I honestly think is most confound. for what I believe is the majority of honest people in this country, whether we all disagree with what that direction should be. None of it. None of what was promised is happening on either side of the paradigm. So I'm of the mind that most Americans are unhappy with what's happening.

Well, they are. They are. And, you know, I mean, polls, which is one measure, show that. What are what are Americans unhappy about? They're unhappy about inflation. They're unhappy about the price of food, about the price of energy. They're unhappy on our mortgage rates have gone up. Financial pressures on American families are really extreme, and particularly since the system is designed, not by just this administration, but by a series of administrations, to accelerate the wealth of America upwards. And, you know, the wealth is going upward. People are holding debt and credit. It is a it's a situation where you know we're we're entering into a recession. We're looking at, you know, whether someone's in a recession or a depression depends on whether they

have a job can pay their rent or mortgage, pays or make their car payment and meet their basic needs of food and utilities and things like that. If you can't do that, you're in a depression. There's more and more Americans who are experiencing difficulty. So we're seeing that reflected in the president's approval rating now hovering around 30%. And, of course, another thing is people do not want this war. There's a widespread disaffection with the president for having promised to end the wars in a way that was very specific. He knew the concerns of Americans. Joe Biden was getting ready to escalate a potential nuclear war with Russia in the closing months of the 2024 campaign.

So Trump's recitation of a desire for peace resonated with the American voters and was, I think, a principal reason why he became president and Biden lost the election. election. So people, the American people do not want war. They're still, you know, I still, I still consider myself a patriotic American. I love this country. I don't like this, you know, what this administration is doing. I didn't like what the last administration was doing. I don't like America being on the war path. I've dedicated my life to peace, diplomatic relations, and to trying to focus the resource of the country on things that matter. and addressing people's practical aspirations for health care and housing and decent jobs and good wages and goods and safe schools and the kinds of things that really, you know,

a safe and secure retirement, the kinds of things that that enable us to live our lives in a way that is that is attuned to, you know, just enjoying life. But that's not happening today in America. I mean, you talk to people anywhere, and there's a concern, and there's also a trepidation about the president recently announcing that he was going to end civilization over in Iran. No, no, no, no, no, no. He's the president.

He's not narrow. He's not Jesus Christ. He is one man who is privileged to serve this country and has a, unfortunately and on occasion taking leave of his very narrow responsibilities to keep this country at peace and to have the benefits of peace redoubt to the American people in terms of an economy that works and it's fair for everyone. And again, I think it's very clear that especially conservatives, but people in this country are aware of that.

And I think that's important for average people, everybody, to reflect on. And yet we get this weird fixation focus from the mainstream alternative, mainstream media, on this like false conversation amongst people that pretend that both sides represent the entirety. That's my opinion anyway. I think it's worth thinking about out there. Now, let's go back to the point of the actual ongoing dealmaking. I find this so interesting. And, you know, again, you have insight into these kind of dynamics from a government perspective as an individual.

And so I just think, it will actually bring up. a good tweet from uh glen greenwald put this out this is not even exhaustive there's so many more you could add to this but so donald trump is you know he just kind of quickly goes through to make the point march 21st trump said he'd obliterate irons power plants if they didn't open the straight in 48 they didn't so he extended it by five days march 28th trump you know extended the deadline by 10 days claiming that they didn't they asked but they didn't you know they are begging for a deal every other day and then they deny the deal you know so what's your kind of high elevation view of this ongoing back and forth i mean the dishonesty's

self-evident, but what's going on there? How do you read that? Well, they don't have, they don't have any plan at all. They're making this up as they go along. There's no coherent vision of international relations. Our involvement in Iran is being propelled by the influence of Netanyahu on Donald Trump. Yeah, period. That's where it starts. Now, there are other things, you know, to try to control the Strait of Hormuz and the oil. That's kind of secondary. But, you know, this is really about Israel's influence over the President of the United States. As far as what Glenn Greenwald has laid out in his tweet, the recitation of threats, pullback, threats, pull back, threats, pull back,

what happens is that credibility is no longer there. The U.S. doesn't have credibility in negotiations. One of the things that is essential to even enter into negotiations is trust. The U.S. is not trusted. Why isn't it trusted? Well, we've killed two sets of peace negotiators already. And there was some back channel information that the peace negotiators from Iran who were returning from Islamabad on the way back to Tehran after the last attempt to come up with an agreement went south. they left Islamabad and they changed their route and means of returning home because they had received

intelligence that their plane could be targeted. I mean, you think about that. They're just kind of, and they had reason for concern because look at, you know, among the people who have been murdered by the United States and Israel is Ali Larjani, who was an incredible statesman and negotiator. You know, they killed them. And there's, and here's the thing that, that I find quite chilling, Ryan. We participate in this, in these summary executions, whatever the technology is used. My God, I mean, and then we turn around and say, we don't have anyone to negotiate with. I mean, this is an evil cynicism.

And so we wonder why we don't have peace. Well, there is no concept of what it looks like. There's not trust in negotiation. Now, could it still occur? Of course. I mean, the whole history of the world is about peace being reached by people who, you know, didn't trust each other and found a way to come to an agreement. But we cannot have a situation where Israel stands in the background.

The U.S. becomes a proxy of Israel. Eleven calls are made from the White House directing the Vice President, as happened recently, about what he should do in negotiations with Iran. And even, you know, Israel weighs in on those discussions as well. No, if there's going to be an agreement, Israel has to surface. Israel has to be a tripartite agreement. Right. Because nothing the U.S. does on its own can be guaranteed unless Israel is part of the agreement. And that that Israel has stayed in the background. And it's not a silent partner.

Is there anybody in a world who doesn't know that the U.S. and Israel are working together on these matters? And that they can claim a distance from certain events. but they're basically simultaneous in this Middle East policy. So, yeah, there has to be an agreement among all parties, and Israel has to be brought forward to participate, not behind the scenes, not picking up a phone in the middle of negotiations and trying to get the U.S. to do something that the U.S. really would prefer not to do, and we end up in a situation where, you know,

we could end up in a war for a long, long time if we don't change the way we look at the world, A, B, the way we deal with peace negotiations and C, have a structured approach that makes parties committed to what they sign on to and that there's penalties if they don't. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, that's the accountability here is what's obviously lacking, as we make the point about Congress, is there seems to be no element from international or domestic to truly hold these people to account. And on that note, you mentioned the different attacks on diplomacy. I mean, we could talk about Soleimani, same point, under a guise of diplomacy in the Iraq airport. It's just not new. You know, so I want to actually direct question about Kamini and these targets, because I believe I understand this, but maybe, you know, make sure the audience, here's this and let me know if I mean incorrect or not is would you consider commini or even the diplomat you pointed to as a military target because in many people's minds they're involved with Iran's you know of course they call them all terrorists but in a military sense they are still planning and they are still involved with the government but I was in the impression that those

things are off off you know not military targets so what's the what's the legality of that how can you have a military target in an illegal war well exactly that's the most important point but Hypothetically. No, no, no, no. And, you know, how do you turn a peace negotiator into a military target? That's what you have to look at because what that points to is a monstrous lie about the even an interest in peace. If you have an interest in peace, you don't, you know, it's common sense. You don't kill the peace negotiators. There's no interest in peace. And where does that come from? That comes from Netanyahu and is right-wing Lekudnik government with Smotrich and Ben-Gavir, who, you know, are okay with, you know, murdering Palestinians, right, a wholesale and stealing their land. And, you know, they're licensed to do

that because of the Netanyahu government. So Netanyahu, in order to avoid going to jail for his own crimes in Israel, is using the United States to continue to chase this, this phantom of Iraq having a nuclear weapon. I mean, this is the same game, Iran rather, it's the same game they played in Iraq. Weapons of mass destruction, weapon's of mass destruction, whip up the population, get them to say, yeah, let's go, knock them out. And then later on that it was a patent lie emerges, million dead people in Iraq,

pass the biscuits, right? You know, this is a reckoning that we as Americans have to come to about what our government does in our name, about the millions of innocent people who get killed because of these lies, because of the very narrow concerns that some individuals might have

to advance a particular agenda in order to protect themselves, which is what Netanyahu's doing. doing. You know, we're dealing with somebody here who is a criminal in his own country, but he escapes any kind of accountability because he keeps saying, hey, look, you know, I'm, you can't, you can't drag me into court because I'm protecting our country. Yeah, he's also bringing it to ruin, but that's up for Israelis to decide. And frankly, they, you know, most Israelis have bought into this idea that Palestinians have to be eliminated.

Oh, my God, have we traveled so far from the Pacific tenets of Judaism that have informed the concept of Tikun Olam to heal the world. We've journeyed from that to Zionism and destroy the world. So I'm, you know, we must push back against this interference in U.S. domestic policy and or changing U.S. domestic policy. So we no longer pretend to be a nation above all other nations so that we become a nation among nations so that we can have trade agreements that are based on equity. so that we can have international relations that are free of threat and militarization so that we can get rid of all nuclear weapons so that nuclear isn't being used as a threat or a boogeyman against anyone. So that the threat of the use of nuclear weapons cannot have any effect later on

because there aren't any nuclear weapons around. I mean, we have a lot of work to do to be sure, but we cannot pretend that America can continue. to surf the tides of history as a unipolar force. All that has changed. That was so yesterday. We are in a world which is multipolar, and it's time that we started to act like it.

Yeah, and I think this is an interesting point to make right here, an important discussion point, and also to be cautious about, like you were saying before, about the idea of how these things can be, it's kind of like a problem or action solution. There's a lot of people that are rightly concerned about how that could just be another transition into another type of power structure. But it's obvious, like the point was the left, right thing or the war and how it was an obvious

reaction to lean away from Biden and his threats against Russia and towards Trump's offers a peace. You know, and it's right to be concerned about this. But it's also, I think as always the right, this should be something we consider and then we're open to. And that we, you know, because right now it's obvious that this is going in the wrong direction. You know, I think you know my mind, Dennis. I'm going in the direction away from government in general.

but the step away from that, even in the direction towards no government, would be into a more multipolar dynamic away from a singular power structure in the world. And I think that's important for people to consider. But do you sense any of those same concerns about what may just be like another recreation of the same kind of problems we have today with bricks or whatever else? Well, first of all, you know, having served 16 years inside the House of Representatives, Having been in committee meetings where the Inspector General of the Department of Defense in 1997 revealed that the Department of Defense had over a trillion dollars in accounts that it could not reconcile. I mean, my belief is they couldn't reconcile because things were being stolen. And now today that amount is in, you know, multiples of billions, a trillions that can't be tracked.

They set up accounting system so nobody can follow the money. Got black box and intelligence budgets. Nobody can follow the money. Wage war is on a credit card. So we have a $39 trillion debt, interest, a trillion dollars. I mean, this system, and we saw the bailout after the subprime meltdown, Wall Street, and the banks got bailed out, how the military is poised to get about a trillion and a half dollars annually in the 2027 budget. What does all this prove?

our government's become a racket. It's a racket. It's a war racket. It's a credit racket. It's a Wall Street racket. And all of the people out there who are good Americans, who love this country, who may have served this country,

who may have sent their sons and daughters or grandchildren to serve this country. In some cases, had sacrificed and given their lives and their self to the country. they've been betrayed. There's a betrayal here that is so deep because when people cannot afford a roof over their head, they can't afford decent medical care,

and they can't afford to give their children a good education, they can't afford a decent retirement, they can't afford to pay utilities, they can't afford to fill up a car with gas, they can't afford the food, at the supermarket, and on and on and on, hey, does that not reflect on the nation itself? And isn't it time that we looked at the stewardship of where the money goes and who's profiting from it and how the wealth is accelerated in this country and how these defense stocks have gone through the roof

in times of war? You know, it's a predatory system. Right. And most people, 90% of the Americans, are being ill-served by it. And this isn't about Democrat or Republican. Be very clear about that. I mean, Iran is an independent in the last election

as a way of demonstrating my disgust with the two-party system because it doesn't really provide people with a choice. You choose Democrats, you choose Republicans, you still get war, you still get poverty, you still get systems that don't serve the people. Now, are we looking at, is there an opening here where we could see a restructuring of America? Absolutely, that could happen. I don't know how much longer the American people can sit back and view a government that is working against their interests, because that's exactly what's going on.

Absolutely. And to that point, actually, there's information coming out suggesting that Kamala was intending to go to, you know, the direction was toward war with Iran as well. Now, whether that's even accurate, my mind is that's obvious personally, but the point is that either side left or right, as you said, it's that generally the same policies, the same problems with different wedge issues and color shirts. Let me do an example, Ryan, how this happens. In 2006, I was continuing, well, from the beginning of the war against Iraq when there were

planning it right after 9-11 to blame Iraq for 9-11, which Iraq had nothing to do with. I saw that and I started to organize against the war and I put together 125 Democrats who voted against the war. So I saw this discontinuing effort to deceive the American people about the purpose of the war and the weapons of mass destruction chant I talked about earlier. Well, that war cost you, American people upwards of $5 trillion. It cost a million Iraqi lives. It cost 5,000 American servicemen and women's lives. You know, where are we going with this kind of thing?

What makes us think that we can continue to pursue a murderous conduct around the world and it's going to work out to our benefit? I don't know if that answered the question, but I'm... Yeah, no, I mean, it's obvious. I mean, this is back to the point before. about how clearly Americans in a general sense are, you know, not just unhappy about this. Like at the point to where, and this is kind of the point of like possible change, like you're pointing to there is that clearly there's an opening where people are aware far more than I've

ever seen in my life. We've talked about this in other discussions in the past, right? That clearly it's something that is changing. And that's why I argue this is a point of transition for the government because we're in a point of transition for people or we're becoming aware. We're asking questions we've never asked before. We're seeing through two-party illusions. We're seeing through the conversation of Zionism.

These are things, these are like important, like influential political dynamics that are being discussed, ripped apart that have never even been allowed to be discussed in the past, right? You know, that people weren't willing to look at. And I think that is such a powerful moment. It is. You know, some I forgot to mention. Ryan, excuse me, or something I forgot to mention that I, you know, when I talk about Iraq, I poured my soul into fighting that, into trying to stop that war, into trying to limit it when it ignited,

in trying to come up with a plan to end it. And by the time I was, you know, near the end of my service in Congress, I was exhausted challenging these wars and the government and thinking about all the innocent people out there who were, lives were being cut short because of it. But the Democrats took control of the House in 2006 on a promise end of the war. They got, you know, they got the power. And they kept funding the war. I just the kind of stuff that goes on where it's unfortunately like a fulfillment of the prophecy

that was in a song by Simon and Garfunkel called Mrs. Robinson and the lyrics are something like this. Go into the candidates debate. Laugh about it, shout about it when you've got to choose. Any way you look at it, you lose. We cannot have a condition like that be maintained in America anymore. We have to, I think we need a third way, at least in American politics, to open up the politics of this country to a more independent position that's not tied to the false choice, which you've just alluded to that's presented between Democrat and Republicans, particularly on foreign policy questions. I mean, there might be some difference on domestic policy.

But the truth of the matter is you don't get to domestic policy if you're spending 80% of your, any percent of your domestic budget goes for the military. You know, this idea that somehow we can give people a vision of what America can be, and then we're still spending money for war. Really? Oh, what a, what a fake out. Yeah. And again, I'm glad to see that people are seeing through that, you know.

And so this is the point to that transition where we have like bricks from international perspective. We've got domestic elements of transition, you know, network state conversations. Like, you know, all these different things, whatever, you know, who's to say what is going to, what has the focal point of the government or not. But it's right to be aware of the opening as well as be concerned that as historically, as you know, these are moments when the government will take advantage of what we want, what we see to fill it with something which will simply progress their power structure, their agenda.

And so, you know, where we are right now, what's your advice to people with where we are, with what happens next, with choices they should be making, you know, how do we, how do we effectively, which is a big question, right? But how do we guide them in that us together in that direction of what we're talking about, you know. Number one, don't quit on America. I mean, I can understand why some people would, but don't quit on America. We have to have confidence in our own ability to affect the change that we desire in our government.

Right. What does that mean? That means that some of us will be candidates, that some us will be involved in campaigns, that some of us will attend a political event supporting some, some of us. one or an event where we state what we want as citizens. And it's not just something we can do online. One of the casualties of political involvement is to think that, well, you can actually get people to do something en masse online.

That doesn't have the same impact as nine million people being out in the streets of America on a no king's day. Right. People need to be visible. We need to step forward and be heard. It's never more important for people's voices to be heard. I don't care if someone's a Democrat, Republican, or independent. I basically am not interested in a partisanship. But I do believe that as Americans, if this country is going to survive, we have to stop the militarization of our economy. We have to stop. We have to stop. using our military as a weapon instead of just, you know, serving our country and standing by to defend it. Right. You're on the offense. We must stop that. We must change America's role in the world, to be a nation among nations, to be a beneficent force, which is what we all believed in when we're growing up. We're the good guys. You're not the good guys when you're out there participating in the murder of innocent people.

You're not the good guys when you're bombing people because their leaders will not yield to your demands. We have to insist that our government take a new direction and to focus on things here at home. I mean, we were warned at the beginning of our country at the founding, founding of it, to be aware of roaming the world, seeking, you know, seeking monsters to destroy. Poverty is a monster. Here at home. Poor health care is a monster. Low wages, monster.

You know, retirement security is threatened. That's a monster. Schools that aren't, don't have the resources to teach our children. That's a monstrous condition. So, again, you know. We focus on America. And in a sense, that is what America first was supposed to be about. Right, right.

Not America Uber-Alas. America First was supposed to be about taking care of our own people here at home first. Somehow that was twisted, distorted into, you know, an approach of, of hubristic domination, imperialism, regime change. It's not what we're supposed to be about. So we have to, this is a really important time for America to do some, Americans to do some soul searching about what do we really want in a country.

What is it, what do we want our own lives? What are our practical aspirations? And for those whose aspirations are violence, we need to question that. We need to help people work through that. But for those whose aspirations to live in decent neighborhoods and to be able to have a life where you can enjoy friends, family, and to enjoy the blessings of liberty that we were promised, we have a lot of work to do to get there.

Yes, we do. And I still argue, whether left or right, but in this case the right point of it, that I think most Republicans, conservatives that wanted America first are feeling lied to, you know, and that's, and that's because what they wanted, whether we disagree in what that looks like was not what Trump actually gave. No, they were lied to, but, you know, it's, I mean, the, you know, the, the, the, the, the, the, lie is the, you know, it's preliminary to the destruction of a nation. Yeah.

Well, what I mean is that they believe in wanting this country to be put first. what regardless of what you know if we disagree on what that like and they want america to be first for americans yeah exactly exactly and what i was going to say is i think it's important to think about that for a conservative out there or democrat that it's that recognizes the problem but then holds back on calling it out because you feel like you're somehow challenging them double-crossing them like you're you know you're you're you're going against your team that that's that's the that's the what when you're going against your team or going against this country is not saying something. It takes courage to stand up and call out the thing that is wrong that it is not America

first, even if it goes against the person pretending to be America first. That's really important because so many people, I think, self-censor themselves today for fear that they're going to hurt the party's agenda, which, you know, as we're highlighting today, is not America first, right? So I think Americans just need to find that courage and stand up and embody what Dennis was talking about. You know, my larger opinion, you know, is to hopefully go in direction where we get away from government in general. But I think at the moment, it is important to lean into what gives us the freedom that we have within a system of stateism. And I think that's what this is, at least fight for those elements of freedom and believe that we can make something change.

And I think what we do every day, Dennis, does make things change. And I think we have to keep fighting for that. Well, Ryan, thank you for that articulation. I believe that government, which governs least, governs best. Right. The hand of government has reached so sinisterly. into America's individual lives. You know, there's a cell phone, and how many people think that our cell phone communications are free of prime? They're not.

How many people think that, you know, even this computer that I'm watching, that it somehow can't be used to dive deeply into someone's individual life? I mean, our right to privacy, which to me is central. to who we are as human beings. Chipped away, chipped away, chipped away, chipped away.

The Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act and the Patriot Act after 9-11, which passed without my vote, because I read it, okay, I read it, diminished us as Americans and continues to through this foreign intelligence and surveillance act, which gives the FBI the ability to look into anybody for any reason. This is crazy. And so, you know, to me, being an American is to stand by the Constitution and to stand with the aspirations of Jefferson and Washington and Adams and the instinct of a Lincoln to keep the country together and the fortitude of a Roosevelt in a time of a, you know,

of economic stress, to find a way to make sure the least of our brethren had a means of food and shelter. And you know, and you take Ronald Reagan, who, well, I may not have agreed with some of his policies. He did something very special for America. He gave America a vision of a country that was bigger than all of us that was a country of our dreams. He reminded us of that. And, you know, we, and this, so this isn't about partisan politics. This is about us reconnecting to a deeper meaning of what America's about. And in a way, we have to relinquish that.

We have to have these discussions. We should be having town hall meetings, not to just debate what's going on in Iran. And it should be debated. But to talk about what's America? What are we about? What do we want our country to be? What can we do to make it the America that we love? I mean, these are conversations that are essential to a reawakening of our instincts for liberty, for freedom, and the long-term survival of our republic. I agree. I think that's why this is so important. People need to have these conversations amongst yourselves with your families, make a podcast. You know, this is important. And now more than ever, in my opinion, as we discussed today, very much so. I think there's an opening right now more than I've ever seen. You know, I've only been doing this so long, but it's an opening, right? And so there's moments for change and it's time to take advantage. So thank you, Dennis, for having this

conversation. Your insight's important. And I hope people can listen because I do believe it's quite obvious and, you know, to take that opportunity. So any final words for us on the way out? I like the buffer sticker on your computer there that says question everything. Right. That's what I did in Congress. There you go. And, you know, I'm not in Congress anymore, but I'll tell you, I'm glad that I asked the questions when I did because as I asked Mr. Netanyahu when he said that he wanted the U.S. to attack Iraq in September of 2002, I asked him, who else would you bomb? Right.

And we know the answer. Right. And the list is there. I'll just play. Go ahead. Brian, thank you for your personal commitment to freedom because it's that instinct towards truly being free that we hope our Constitution will protect. that enables us to expand the deeper meaning of what it means to be human.

So thank you, Ryan Christian, and see again. Bye now. Thank you, Dennis. Have a good one. I thank you everybody for tuning in. And as always, question everything. Come to your own conclusions. Stay vigilant.