The Last American Vagabond - IMA: The Encroachment Of The Bio-Digital Control Grid & The Epstein Overlap

Episode Date: July 8, 2025

Today the Independent Media Alliance (IMA) brings you a panel focusing on the newest steps taken in the direction of the bio-digital control grid and how this overlaps with many of the current media focal points and political agendas. We also discuss in-particular the Epstein story, currently consuming the news cycle, and how this relates to the larger technocratic agenda being rushed into reality, as well as how the MAM is reacting to this wholly expected development.Source Links:(11) The Solari Report | Catherine Austin Fitts (@solari_the) / X(100) The Fast-Approaching Digital Control Grid: A Checklist of Trump Administration Actions to DateThe Fast-Approaching Digital Control Grid: A Checklist of Trump Administration Actions to Date | Solari ReportIMA: The Fast-Approaching Digital Control GridIMA Archives - The Last American VagabondToon of the Week | Solari ReportNew Tab(21) Magdalena Winkler on X: "The bigger picture: As Catherine Austin Fitts warns, wearables represent components of “the control grid” — systems integrating health surveillance with digital currencies. When combined with central bank digital currencies, this creates a digital gulag https://t.co/Bb8kgBWJPE" / X(21) The Last American Vagabond on X: "Levels is about wearables & RFK told us that's the plan. Levels raised $12M in seed funding from Andreessen Horowitz. As well as Marc Randolph, co-founder & first CEO of Netflix, Dick Costolo, former CEO of Twitter & Michael Arrington, founder of TechCrunch. #QuestionEverything" / XNew Tab(9) Jason Bassler on X: "Leaked emails indicate that ICE is now using 'Mobile Fortify,' a facial recognition tool that lets agents ID anyone just by pointing a smartphone camera at them. It may start with "illegal immigrants" — but make no mistake, this technology will be used against you next. https://t.co/f3fVFjNhcG" / XNew Tab(18) XNew TabDOJ/FBI Claim Epstein "Had No Client List/Was Suicide/No Blackmail" & Weather Manipulation For AINew TabInside Trump's supercharged version of Bush's "War on Terror"Trump’s Palantir-Powered Surveillance Is Turning America Into a Digital Prison - CounterPunch.orgTrump’s Palantir-Powered Surveillance Is Turning America Into a "Digital Prison" - Global ResearchGlobal Research - Centre for Research on GlobalizationThe WIRED Guide to Protecting Yourself From Government Surveillance | WIRED(11) Libertarian Party on X: "Trump promised to drain the swamp. Instead he’s feeding it classified datasets. The executive order he just signed is the blueprint for total information control streamlining every federal agency into a single mass-surveillance organism, powered by Palantir and built on your https://t.co/ZaDawuRWgx" / XRon Paul: President Trump is unleashing a ‘Great Big Ugly Surveillance State’ – Daily BreezeDOJ To Prioritize Revoking American Citizenship & Trump Bill Greatly Expands Biometric SurveillanceTrump’s megabill expands biometric surveillance | Biometric UpdateNew ICE mobile app pushes biometric policing onto American streets | Biometric UpdateSwitzerland prepares to introduce biometric ID cards | Biometric UpdateWelcome to the Palantir World Order(21) Truthseeker on X: "‼️AI Kill and Control System Palantir by Greg Reese Report👇 https://t.co/EgKBOgYW2i" / XNew Tab(21) Daniel McAdams on X: "President Trump is Joe Biden. He will be killing more Russians while at the same time LARPing as some kind of mediator. This is seriously the biggest clown show in history." / XNew Tab(21) The Last American Vagabond on X: "🤦‍♂️ https://t.co/EJd1CLPY8X" / XBitcoin Donations Are Appreciated:www.thelastamericanvagabond.com/bitcoin-donation(3FSozj9gQ1UniHvEiRmkPnXzHSVMc68U9f)The Last American Vagabond Substack is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. Get full access to The Last American Vagabond Substack at tlavagabond.substack.com/subscribe

We're going to be discussing the idea of the false binary. What an illusion of choice does establishes the baseline assumptions and nobody questions. This is part of the fifth generation warfare that we've talked about. Voting for the lesser of two evils. Definitely an emotional psychological trap that people are in. You're cheerleading for an insane ideology because you think you're winning. The role we have is media. How do we help everybody understand?

This is theater and you need to get back into the real world. If you're opposed to the agenda, you should. oppose it regardless of who's selling it to you. Welcome to the Independent Media Alliance. We're here again today to discuss quite a few different things, but we're going to start with discussing kind of the recent steps, continual steps in the direction of the building control grid, and, you know, what else is happening that's distracting us from that and the different kind of moving parts that are all coming together in front of us.

Catherine, Steve and Charlie here joining today. Let's kick it off. Anybody want to say hello? Let's kick it off with Catherine, giving us her updated points on where, you know, what we what we talked about last time on the steps and then falling up today into what steps have happened since then and go ahead and kick us off katherine how are you so um we've been collecting a collection of the what the current administration is doing to build the control grid and it's definitely accelerating and it's accelerating with um uh the big beautiful bill which was filled with money and

and provision for the surveillance grid in the United States, you know, very much sold to you under the guise of immigration. But when you integrate it into what's happening, it's an enormous lift to the sort of the building of the control grid. Derek did a great article that is one that we've linked from the collection. And one of the reasons we're updating this collection every week is literally there's so much happening. Even I can't keep it all. You know, I need to go back and go through the list.

It's quite remarkable. Another thing, Brian, I'd love to discuss today is I've, you know, as we've been watching what's been rolling out in the Middle East, we're watching a lot of control and surveillance technology used in the Middle East, including, you know, to engineer the killbox. And we're now looking at a machinery that implements control all the way from surveillance to invasive participation through the financial. and legal system all the way up into the killbox. And it's very much an integrated system using integrated data.

So, but, but it was such that our wonderful Jeremy Nell of Germ Warfare does our cartoons. And he made a cartoon that sort of reminded me sometime how I feel. I told you earlier, when I keep walking through airports listening to Christie, Noon pushed the real ID. And this is exactly how I feel. I don't mean to interrupt when we when we flew back into San Francisco airport

yesterday morning from Denver we went from the construction workers or lizard people to AI as your best friend like for all of the propaganda on the walls and it was just I mean wildly dystopian it was yeah unsettled absolutely

Absolutely. Absolutely. And you have the tsunami of events, many of which are important and because it changes accelerating. But it can feel very overwhelming. And meantime, you're watching that digital control grid sneak in. Right. For those in the podcast, what we're looking at here is a person sitting at the bar fixated on the screen next to him that says digital control grid and then 99% of the rest of the bars crowded on one side looking at a screen packed with wars, Trump, politics, you know, and that's the general. is that we're being distracted. And I will add to that, you know, it doesn't mean that wars and different things are irrelevant. Clearly, they are very relevant, but that's why you do the best manipulations involve the truth, you know, and they're using that to drive us away from the obvious. So why don't we start with on top of that? Steve, Charlie, you guys have any thoughts on currently where the control grade is and where that's going? Well, I, it's piggybacking on what Catherine said about the airport. I used to think that the worst part of the airport experience was

that you would be force-fed CNN while you were waiting for your flight. But apparently now you get Christy Noam on top of that chilling for real ID. No, it's gross. It's gross. Yeah. I mean, we've just, we watched this expand rapidly over the last couple of years. The big rollout, of course, being during the COVID lockdowns when everybody got to sit by themselves and get comfortable with the idea of isolated,

digitally provided life. And all of your groceries, your meals came delivered. All of your information came through your device. You weren't allowed to go touch grass. You weren't allowed to go. They were ticketing people for being on a beach or surfing, stuff like that.

Like if you're by yourself in the middle of the, oh, you're going to give the fish COVID, really? Is that what you're concerned? about like no this is a there's an obvious agenda being played out and now that you've softened the populace up dumbed them down and have them desperate for some sort of connection you can hand them all of the AI chatbots which gets them really used to the idea of governance being done in the exact same manner and the amount of like cross-cultural programming that's involved in this is manifesting in people trying to marry their chat bot or people

trying to, you know, seriously think about uploading their consciousness in some way, shape, or form, which is preposterous. That's the way you upload your consciousness is when you go to heaven. Like, that's plain and simple. I wonder. So are you seeing more, go ahead, Charlie. Well, I was just, I wonder if, if part of watching the wheels fall off of government is part of the plan.

It's to get you to the point where it's universally. accepted that the current iteration of government is so deeply flawed with human beings because human beings bring their own prejudices and desires and wants into it that maybe we should consider the concept of a government run by say computers that could be programmed to be fair and balanced and take all. Did you see Rogan? Rogan said it on his show. I can't believe I'm saying it, but we need AI government.

That's what he said on his show to the largest podcast audience in the world. That's a real bad idea. Yeah. I just don't know how else to say it. And it feels like maybe we're being walked into it that, you know, you throw your hands up and go, anything's got to be better than what we've currently got. Sounds like US sanctions. That's the logic of the U.S.

government, right? They push you in a place where you're vulnerable, where you're, you know, almost where you'll accept, even though you know it's a problem, what they're presenting because it feels better than what your current you're living in, you know. But let me ask you guys a question. question in a sense of like the COVID-19 timeframe. You know, there's a lot of theories around what that was, what they tried to accomplish.

But Steve made this an excellent point that I think we've all considered, you know, is it possible at least in part or in whole that what that was was just to prime us for this massive shift into the digital control grid and the future? You know, it seems like it lines up in a lot of ways. What do you think? So I just think it was part of the Going Direct Reset. So Debbie Lerman just, I don't know if you've seen her new book, it's called The Deep State Goes Viral.

And she does a very good job of proving what Sasha, Lati Povina and Catherine Watt have already proved, which is it was a military intelligence operation. But she goes through it in great detail. And what you see is, you know, this was a group of people who were basically authorized and promoted by the military and intelligence community. And they couldn't care less what the scientists or doctor said. That had nothing that bore no relevance to what they wanted people to do. And if you look at the economic and political result, it was very successful at producing enormous political and economic centralization, you know, tremendous move of assets off of Main Street into Wall Street.

And it was very successful if you look at it as a part of the Going Direct Reset. And we know the Going Direct Reset was voted on in August or reviewed by the central bankers in August 2019. the Fed comes back, starts intervening in the repo market. And then by March, you have the COVID-19 operation basically implementing many of the things that you wanted to do. So it's to me, it's just part of the ongoing, you know, I call it a financial coup. At this point, it's a full-blown coup. But it's just part of the coup. And the thing that Charlie was describing of getting.

you to want certain kinds of changes in government. I mean, literally what we've seen since the beginning of the latest administration is you have a group of people, go to Washington, steal all the data you need for a social credit system, and then leave, right? And there you are. And it's part of privatizing government, whether you're moving the functions into corporate contractors or you're just stealing the data and doing it all privately. you know, the people who got the data, because X-A-I, you know, Doge moves it out,

X-A-I then does it deal with Palantir, and then Palantir gets huge contracts from the U.S. government, another huge route. Right, and Black Rock funds X-A-I, which is becoming a point that is like suddenly coming out, but it's been around for a long time. It was publicly discussed. You know, you can see all the, or even more so before that, that X-A-I was a DARPA program, just like total information awareness became Palantir. you can just see this kind of the pieces being set in front of us. But yeah, I think it's

kind of at all, it's, there's a lot of moving parts, but it does seem like the answer is yes, that this was all kind of a way to prime us for what they knew we would largely not be okay with, or rather force us into it as you're highlighting in financial ways. But I think it's pretty clear that this was something that was trying to prime us for what's coming next. You know, so can I can ask you something about the genius bill, Catherine, and what your thoughts are on that? Sure. There's a lot of conversation around what that is and whether it means what people think it does. You mentioned that in your list about the digital part of it.

So I think the stable coins. So I've read the Genius Act, but I haven't seen the final thing that passed, but I'm assuming there's not a big difference. It still has to go to the house. It's called the Stable Act in the House, and they still have to be reconciled and then signed in the fall. But I'm assuming that will happen by fall. And what you're seeing with the stable coins is there is a plan underway to basically market through the mobile payment systems to every country in the world where you can get in on the mobile payment systems, which presumably is not every country, to get people off their local currency and into the dollar. And it's much more subtle. You won't see it in the Genius Act, but I believe part of this push.

will be to unleash an amazing amount of credit, including farm credit for farmers all around the world to get them, that's part of getting them off the local currency and onto stable coins. What this will do if it works is will create a huge new market for treasuries because stable coins are fully collateralized. So presumably a lot of the money is gonna go

into either bank deposits or treasury bills. But it's also gonna unleash, you know, My guess, and this is a guess, this brings a whole new meaning to the expression helicopter. And the potential for a dramatic inflationary impact that's going to rock the world of the American people. And people all around the world is extraordinary. And, you know, it will certainly rock the American people. If you look at a country where they get off the local currency and get onto the American currency, you know, it will really rock them.

One of the big questions, and I don't know the answer, is the new Fed Now system designed to work with stable coins. Because if it is, we know they've been negotiating with Ripple. And Charlie, you may know that. One of you guys may know this. If it's designed to work with the Fed now system, you're literally seeing the Fed is going to sort of basically be running a much bigger part of the market share of the global currency market. It's quite extraordinary. Now, has anybody seen the perfectly dreadful movie G20? No, I don't think so.

You look like people who are far too intelligent and far too busy to ever go see a movie called G20. But let me tell you, we recommend it on a movie of the week. Here's the storyline. The storyline, Viola Davis plays the U.S. president, and she's a former Marine. and her big platform to promote to the G20 is she wants to launch stablecoin around the world and make credit available to all the farmers thus bringing democracy. Okay? And everybody's skeptical of this plan. They see it is self-serving America promoting the dollar.

She goes to the G20 meeting in South Africa, and I would like to point that the G20 meeting this year is in November in South Africa. She goes to South Africa. Another crypto group are terrorists who are trying to shut down the G20, you know, adopting the stablecoin plant. So you have the pump and dumpers on one side versus the stable coin people on the other. Needless to say, the president wins the day and G20 realizes stable coin, they want a supporter in the stable coin plan. Right, there you go. There it is.

Now, it's so funny because it's. It is, in my opinion, before I saw the movie, I happened to watch this because I came upon it on a, on a long, very long flight. But I was stunned because this is the plan. I mean, this is what I was saying was the plan until I saw the movie. And I went, oh, my God, somebody started two or three years ago making this to help market the plan. Right. And that's always. It's unbelievable.

Yeah, the predicted programming of it. But I mean, just the cartoonish nature of that where they're dress and the gun, like it's just so, it's just so, yeah, it's perfect to where we are in the country. I wrote about, I wrote about 10 jokes immediately. I did.

I can't say any of them, but I wrote 10. Well, you know, and it's funny, you look back, you can see these different movies and prime you for these things, you know, like the exact kind of like,

you know, there's so many. And I think the whole point of it, as always, is that they put it out like this. So when it starts to actually become to be clear, then people go, oh, you got that from that movie. You know, like it's dismissible.

Like, oh, that's just that thing you saw on X-Files or whatever. It's like, oh, well, you know. Did I ever tell you about the Soprano TV show story? I don't think so. Okay, so from many years, I'm trying to warn people about the mortgage fraud and trying to warn them about the kind of fraud that's going on in HUD, including the basic fact pattern fraud that's like the base of all mortgage fraud. And in fact, it's the fraud that destroyed.

my neighborhood when I was a kid or destroyed the housing values in my neighborhood. Anyway, so I had this wonderful roommate from college who, because I was dealing with so much physical harassment, she came to Washington and with my roommate and at my house for a while just to help protect me. Anyway, so she leaves and I give up on Washington. I move out, I leave Washington. And then a couple years later, I'm living in Tennessee. I'm driving down the highway and I get a phone call from her. And she said, Fitz, have you seen the new Soprano TV show about HUD fraud? And they had done a series of four HUD frauds, and they were very good. And they really sort of nailed the fact pattern. It was very, you know, whoever wrote the script really knew what they were doing. And anyway,

so I said, yes, I've seen it. And she says, well, I guess what you've been saying is true. I said, wait a minute. I'm the, I'm the former assistant secretary. housing. I'm the former lead financial advisor to the Department of Housing and Urban Development. But you didn't believe me until it was on the soprano TV show. And she said, that's right. So that's what I said. So I said in America, fact is fiction and fiction is fact. And that's why when I saw G20, I said, oh, maybe my theory, you know, is really the plan. That's just terrifying. You know, I mean, it's a so. So Steve, I'm dying to see. or 10 jokes. You can put them in the chat.

Well, when you come on my show and we do, you know, we do, yeah, in front of that, I'm trying to be respectful to everyone who may be listening and I want to ruffle any feathers for the IMA. Ryan is very distinguished, so he's going to have a more distinguished audience.

I have significantly less distinguished. Yeah. That's true. It's undeniable. Yeah. Well, then it's the perfect time to talk about Epstein. Yeah, most definitely. Well, before we go into Epstein, though, one point that I wanted to show that I thought was interesting that we could discuss that goes in the, like, not just the many obvious clear developments in the direction of this, but the normalization of it through like Mahan stuff. And one of them was this interesting development, right?

The wearable point from RFK Jr., which I think overlaps, you know, all these are moving parts to sort of the control dynamic, the social credit part of it. But not just that he said that this was the next. kind of, you know, the focal point. But then I saw it was interesting that Tucker Carlson, you can see in his show, it says brought to you by levels, which levels is about wearables. And you see funding from Anderson Harrowitz and, you know, Twitter people, an interesting point and all that. And I just thought it was interesting to start that conversation about the wearable point,

the direction of the, you know, the tech and where it goes. So this thing that you, you know, that this tweet is of an article by Josh Stamman. And here's what happens. So Kennedy in testimony says his vision for America is in four years everybody's wearing wearables, which means, you know, really moving, making sure everybody gets into the surveillance system. And so there's a huge pushback, one of which was me who said that he was the Judas goat leading everybody into the control grid. And then Charles Eisenstein, who's wonderful, who used to be his chief speaker, writer came out with the defense of what Bobby said, at which point Josh Domain wrote the piece

that you're pointing to in that tweet, which is excellent. It's a substack. And he talks about why wearables is part of moving into the internet of bodies and how dangerous it is. And he does an excellent job. It's very well done and it's very detailed. And it helps you really see the control grid and why wearables are so dangerous. just your opinion any of you all of you do you think RRFK Jr. is aware of what this where this is going not whether he's

blackmailed or something behind it but just that he's aware yeah I agree I mean if I know where it's going right it's true no I mean dumb guy like the dumb guy logic of that like you know what I mean like that applies on so many levels including the Epstein thing which we're you know going to get into

but yeah If I'm aware of it, if I'm sitting here in Mill Valley behind a computer, and I'm aware of it, the people who have had access to all of the information that we only glean from through what we can get publicly, they know. They know and they're lying and they're lying because it benefits them. Or he's paid not to know. Yeah. Yeah.

Again, the weather, you know, again, blackmailed is something that's certainly possible, but I think it's irrelevant to whether or not we're going that direction, which is the point. point, you know, because it's clear. Right, but here's the thing. What Bobby did was he wanted to go in because he wants, you know, there's an inside game where you try and move the machinery from inside, and there's an outside game. We play an outside game. We don't want to play an inside game.

Bobby's trying to play an inside game. And the problem is, you know, we've seen, he tried to choose a really good person for FDA. That nomination had to get pulled. So he's getting blocked and stopped, and it's impossible to tell. you know, exactly why he's doing the compromise he's doing. But if you look at the last sort of series of four or five compromises, they've been very difficult. And so, and part of the danger is the administration has made it clear. They want MRNA technology.

Right. The reality is also very clear. MRNA technology kills people. We just published an interview with Suzanne Humphreys. It's one of the top sort of people writing about the history of vaccines. And it's all about the mysterious ingredients in mRNA technology. I mean, you have nanoparticles in this stuff. They come together in your body.

They aggregate and they create things that look like circuit boards. I mean, the whole thing is in complete violation of informed consent because you've got secret ingredients that are clearly not natural. And if you look at the number of people who are dying with circulation problems, blood clots, heart attacks, strokes, I mean, this stuff is a killer. And literally, we have thousands of children every day still taking this, even though it serves no medical purpose. Right. So this administration, whether it's HHS and various people or the president, who within three days of the inauguration, came out with a huge Stargate initiative. you know, promoting MRNA vaccines, you know, and the president keeps trying to say he accomplished great things with the MRI vaccines during the pandemic. And he's, you know, he's literally getting

boot off the stage for it. So they, as a political matter, they are absolutely committed to poisoning Americans. And think about that in, in contrast to the fact that they must know how unpopular that is with their core base of support. So, I mean, every time I think of that overlap, I go, okay, why then? You know, is how are they, you know, is that because of a foreign country? Is that because of some internal lobby? I mean, or is it just that they don't care? It's such an obvious contradiction.

Right. But the American government does not have financial sovereignty, and it does not have information sovereignty. And if you look at, you know, how many people in the government and in the Congress have dual citizenship and are loyal elsewhere. I mean, we're talking about a government that doesn't have sovereignty. So the question always is, is who's giving the orders and what are they want? And why are they doing?

Is this just a way to build the internet of bodies? Are we looking at a full-blown bioweapon that's a depopulation plan? That's the question. Yeah. I mean, just to add to, go ahead, go ahead. Well, two months ago, Rasmussen did a poll, and I think said, 50% or more of the people polled knew somebody had been killed by the COVID shot. I've heard so much more than that, I imagine.

Well, if just, you know, because I spend basically five months a year, two and a half in the fall, two and a half in the spring, driving around America. And what I will tell you is everywhere you go, people have stories of earlier sudden deaths. And it's everywhere. And everybody's experiencing it. Now, some people don't want to face what's causing it, but there are a lot more people who faced it. And they know. And here's the thing.

You don't have to persuade anybody what caused it because ultimately the deaths will persuade everyone who's willing to listen to something other than entrainment. And I still argue, I think that's a vast majority of people today. Like, I think that she was dropped. I think they're just trying to maintain the narrative, just like they are with Israel and a lot of other things. I don't know if you guys agree with that, but I think, even on the left, what was the last number we heard from, I think it was McCarrie, that it was something like 11%, like a really low number of the first responders are taking any of these shots right now. So, I mean, even left and right, people are like, no way. The evidence is out. And I think that's profound.

It shows you the fracturing of the whole control. Well, but, you know, as we're realized, you go. I just I agree with that as I said we talk about it all the time Ryan but there's uh the thing that that gets me is that there's such a a wide net cast in the mainstream alternative media apparatus that serves as you know this sort of like catch all for anybody trying to escape you know just completely manufactured media get into reality and we were talking about it on Union of the Wanted last night where you get this period of about 18 to 20 months after someone comes into office and before the midterms where reality sinks in and disillusioned with government and the various you know okay well it is a uniparty after all sinks in and people start to migrate towards us and that's when that drag net gets activated where you can try and you know, mainline the hopium to the masses in terms of, okay, well, it's 5D chess because

Trump has the Epstein list now and he's going to use it against the deep state. That's what Alex Jones was telling people. Um, or, you know, okay, well, this might not look good, but, you know, let's not lose hope patriots and that kind of thing about it. And yeah, it's, that, that is a, frustrating element to it. Ryan, you mentioned the COVID era about whether or not this stuff was intentional or you know can you imagine the sort of psychological profiles they developed during COVID all the information that they were watching for in advance they knew this was coming and and how they could measure and quantify that and build digital voodoo dolls of each one of us and know just where to put that pin to make us dance and who will take the shots who won't take

the shots if nothing else it's it's it's game footage that they can review and study in advance of the next operation that the military runs on us. And I fear that they learn from their mistakes because there were a lot of mistakes during COVID. And obviously, things happened, but I think in retrospect, they would do some things differently. But now, boy, after running through that recently, understanding how we'll behave, you know, like how the rats in the maze will run, depending on which sort of additive we put in there.

Or maybe it's Bill de Blasio offering a cheeseburger to get you off the fence to take that jab, you know? I mean, like it got to preposterous levels. And you start thinking, like, is this, is this real? Is this real? Is this messaging for me? me or is this messaging for for stupid people that are you know getting lottery tickets to take jabs and things like that and and I just wonder about that in the in the after you know in at now that the haze of war is kind of over and looking back in that like how much data did they gather on the way

we react and how we respond to stimulants or fears that they inject yeah I think they learn their lessons like you said and I think it's more than just the one you know how we respond I think it's all the things we're discussing. It's like, you know, getting us prepared for the next step, watching how we respond, seeing if we all jump at toilet paper, if they decide to make that the point. You know, it's like it's clear. And I think today we're seeing that in a lot of ways to segue into the Epstein point. You know, I think it's clear that with anything right now, we're like, like a good point is on the side are things like we saw with Twitter, like the fog and the drones, despite there of being things to discuss in there that they just go, if we just poke this in there,

can we just like overtake the entire conversation for two days? Can we control what they say and thinking. And I think they know that's the case with a certain crowd at certain times. And so Epstein is another interesting overlap to that. You know, and one more thing, let's not forget with the shots, the MMR weird shift, you know, or the self-amplifying COVID shot they support or, you know, any number of things, the platform for bird flu, you know, all these weird things that should get so much more attention, but because I think this mechanism we're discussing, it just falls on its face, you know? So, so let's talk about Epstein and the weird response to it. Well, actually, before we even get into that, what are you guys thoughts on the way it's

going first before we get into the kind of overlap what people are saying. Steve, you mentioned Jones and, you know, anybody who would start? Go ahead, jump in. I was, I was still remembering the, the, uh, program with the, the shots for shots. Remember that where they were offering people at bars, uh, a beer in a shot if they would take the jab, which is so dangerous, it's ridiculous. Like, and that's the thing that they actually wrote into Illinois law, state law. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. I was back there for a moment. Come come get drunk and get a shot at a bar because that sounds an actual shot in your arm. What could possibly go wrong? What's the stranger put an needle in you? What could possibly go wrong? My brother literally knew somebody at the bar he went to where he lives

that was a person, a nurse who snuck shots out of her, out of the hospital and had him in her purse and was trying to coerce people in the bar to get these shots. Swear to God. And I, this is a real story. I mean, you know, question it because you don't know my brother. And it's my third, you know,

I'm telling the story, but that's insane. And we know the level this got to with these nurses and people that got so riled up with they thought, you know, righteous, you know, indignation that they were out there doing stuff like that, which is just violation of everything they believe in. It's weird. But on that note, so let's, if you guys want to talk about Epstein, I think it's relevant to all this, you know, go ahead, Charlie. Well, I hope, I mean, I know that there's a segment of society that's very disappointed

that there's no Epstein file dump. And I just hope that the people that are fixating on the trafficking component realize that that's a small part of what he was up to. And that if you think that's interesting and it is and gross and all those things, wait until you hear about everything else he was doing. And so if that becomes, if nothing else, then it becomes the entry point for people to understand. about the eugenics side of things that he was dealing with, the Martin Noak at Harvard financing evolutionary dynamics and population game theory and all that weird stuff. And of course, selling arms and Southern Air Transport and Les Wexner.

And I mean, like I sort of described this last night, Steve, on our union show was, if you want the Epstein list, go by One Nation under Blackmail Volume 2. That's it. That's essentially, you want the Epstein files? It's that. Like, go read that. And you'll know all the players that are sort of in that orbit. And then from there, hopefully that will lead you to ask further questions.

So I'm taking this as a net positive as long as people recognize that that trafficking was only a part of what Epstein was doing. And that if you are interested in learning more about that, that'll take you into some, some, some, some, very dangerous areas. Eugenics, transhumanism, you know, the Harvard overlap, right? I actually think in a way what we're seeing today with, we can play it from Trump acting like, are you still talking about Epstein? They're trying to put this to bed, I think, before we overlap with the very work they we're doing and where this goes, like even like the Lieber-Langer overlap with the nanotech stuff.

Like I think there's all of this is coming from the same realm. I'm interested in what you think, Catherine, on where this is and how it relates. Well, I wanted to find a video for you. I don't know if you're willing to pay a video on this. But I'm going to go find it. I don't know if you saw it. Lawrence Wilkerson gave an interview recently where he talked about the people at the Pentagon complaining. So let's go back on the timeline.

Epstein is introduced by Bob Rubin, then the National Academic Advisor. He's taken to the White House for the first time. Rubin, of course, then becomes Secretary of Treasury. when Ruben comes Secretary of Treasury, $21 trillion starts to go missing from the U.S. Treasury. We get this huge bulge of missing money. Meantime, between the time, according to Whitney, between the time Epstein is first introduced the White House to the time that the Clinton administration ends, I think he was at the White House some fantastic amount of time, something between 15 and 20, but constant.

visitor at the White House. Then we know Bill Clinton gets on a plane, you know, as money's disappearing from DoD and HUD in enormous amounts, he gets on a plane with the Clintons and starts flying around the world. And countries around the world magically find hundreds of millions of dollars to donate back to the Clinton Foundation. It's quite remarkable. So I believe Epstein was primarily a money laundering operation. You know, he was the swift system for the money. disappearing from the federal government, among other things. But anyway, so Wilkerson gets on, and I'm going to find the link for you. And he describes in the early 2000s as this money is going missing and things are happening. He said, Musad took over the Pentagon. They didn't even need

an ID to get in. At one point, Rumsfeld complained to my boss, meaning pal, you know, that literally Lussaud was more powerful than Rumsfeld at the Pentagon. Have you seen that clip? I have that clip. Go ahead. Keep talking. I'm going to bring it up right now. Okay. Okay. But it shows you because you have this triad between British intelligence, Israeli intelligence, and U.S. intelligence. And in my experience, they're very much operating together. And I'm just assuming that Epstein was part of that operation and part of that operation to literally engineer a financial co. And if you look at how deep, if you look at how deep, if you look at how deep, deep those relationships go and their connection. So give you an example, because the Trump administration,

you know, sometimes I say Trump and his administration have an Epstein file the size of the Encyclopedia Britannica. Les Wexner bought a house for Epstein on E-71st Street. Then he bought a bigger house next door, moved Epstein to the bigger house, and then he sold the house to Howard Letnik, the current Secretary of Commerce, and I think for some ridiculous like $10, and then Lutnik took out a $4 million mortgage. So he got $4 million of capital on the deal. And you tell me whether you think there was a connection, you know, through the basement or in the garden between the two houses, you tell me.

But if you're running a major money laundering operation, there's a reason you would want one of the 24 primary dealers in the treasury market next door, right? Okay. Do you really think that, that, you know, if you release the Epstein file, that's part of the discussion you're going to have. Now, we know J.P. Morgan Chase, Deutsche Bank, a lot of the big banks had huge settlements. I mean, they have paid out millions and millions of dollars on their settlements on the Epstein case. That's why when people say there's nothing there, if there's nothing there, why are the most powerful banks in the world paying out, you know, millions of dollars to settle these cases? and take them dark. Why did the, why did the attorney general for the, you know, for the, what was the island that sued J.P. Morgan, she says, it was the Virgin Islands. You know, why did they get fired for bringing a lawsuit against J.P. Morgan about their financing of, you know, the Epstein Network?

So I just think we're looking at an operation that was very successful. It worked. it's intertwined very much with this administration and many people in Washington, and it's at the core of the intelligence agency's power. Why, you know, those files are worth a fortune in terms of blackmailing people and operating control. Why would you give them up? Information is the most valuable thing, as you argued in the world. But, you know, the, go ahead, go ahead, Charlie.

No, you wouldn't give them up. You never, that's why I thought it was unrealistic for people to think. think they're going to you know we have if you want to know who's in his orbit you can you can find out who's in his orbit there's there's a lot of but if you want the goods the tapes themselves why would they give them up that's worth so much you know i don't need to blackmail you if i control the the guy who is blackmailing you that's all i need to do right so when he goes away they just take over his franchise and they've got all the they've got the info there so now i mean what's the difference between Epstein's version of organized crime and the FBI.

To me, it's just a different brand, but it's still organized crime. Well, to your point, Charlie, about the network, you know, it just, you know, obviously we were talking about much larger things these connected to, but even just the point about the network itself. That isn't even about the actual trafficking. It's about that being used to influence control, right? To be able to blackmail people in powerful positions to get them to do what they ultimately want.

And so, Catherine, let's go back to that video really quickly, since it's such a very important point to highlight Wilkerson saying this about the Pentagon and interestingly how right now, and actually before we play this, let's start for people that maybe didn't see it because we're all talking about this as if people knew the report, but it came out them claiming that there was no blackmail, that there was no client list, that there, what was the other part? There was basically just dispelling the entire story. Oh, and that he took his own life. Right, exactly, that he sued, that he killed himself, that there was no client list and there's no blackmail. Put it all to bed. And now Trump's going like, what are we all talking about this

for. So here's the, here's why. And I think the covering up the blackmail part is because of this, in my opinion, one of many points. It's unquestionable that the Epstein business was heavily influenced. Let me put it that way, by Mossad. And so that's somehow emblematic on these huge geopolitical issues. Yes, I watched Mossad take over the Pentagon in 2002. The Pentagon was infiltrated by Mossad. They did not need any identification to get through the river entrance to the building. They went upstairs to Douglas Fife, the Undersecretary of Defense for policy, the third most powerful man in the Defense Department. Occasionally they went to the second most powerful man, Paul Wolfowitz, the deputy secretary of defense, and they had run of the

Pentagon. Donald Rumsfeld, the secretary defense, said to my boss one time, hell i don't run my building massad does so i bring up the fact that the latest report is two congressmen one from new york and one from new jersey is now suggesting that we give israel stealth bombers and fucker buster bombs man despite the fact that we've claimed we've destroyed all nuclear capacity there right which we always knew was what narrative or not or even if that was the case they still weren't going to stop because it's not really about that but to add to that point as well that ever this is a part that we all know that's now newly making the round through certain, you know, certain circles, but that this is a, an old, you know, that he, and I actually read directly from it,

because it's not just that statement that is the main part of it. It was this part where he says, he'd been, basically, he'd cut the non-prosecution deal with one of Epstein's lawyers, and he had been told to back off that Epstein was above his pay grade. I was told Epstein belonged to intelligence and to leave it alone. He told interviewers, and I think one of the most important parts is they told he said this to the trump transition team who they write who evidently thought that was a sufficient answer and went ahead and brought him on the team you know so it's like insane i think that speaks volumes and then uh what i think overlap with this but i also think is relevant is the the point charlie's making and others about the bigger aspect of this is let's not forget

this this is from 2023 epstein's calendar contained multiple meetings with peter teal and then the new one from new york times epstein invested with peter teal and as a state is reaping millions interestingly on that site note about the epst the estate still you know there's still things that seem be moving around all this that no one wants to acknowledge anyway anybody guys think about all that any direction i mean it's not it's not a surprise the whole transhumanist component and the whole yeah of the you know of epstein whether or not that's an international operation or if that was just something that he you know personally wanted to be a part of and the various people that he funded throughout it's not just peter teal it's like stephen pinker

in the Kurtz, while, you know, all those guys receive this money. It speaks to what a larger agenda is, I think, for the, you know, tech billionaire and the billionaire elite class. Like the desire to become, you know, extra human or superhuman or something like that. And then the narcissism that allows you to think my lineage should rule the world. so I need to effectively clone me, you know. We still don't know what was at Zorro Ranch. And we still don't know whose fingerprints are all over, you know,

whatever alleged, you know, breeding programs and things like that are. But I guarantee you there's a very short, straight line to the people that were involved in Epstein's Let's All Live Forever projects. Yeah. That's the point you made there in case people don't know is the idea of him, like, what was the mindset of spreading a seed across the world? You know, the idea of like, you know, what was it going? You know, I don't. He was so convinced of his own genius and an acumen that he quite literally wanted to be the dominant genetic, you know,

a progenitor for the future of humanity. That's creepy. Not a megalomaniac at all. But so, so, oh, go ahead, Catherine. I got to say goodbye. I've got to sign off. but it's been a pleasure to be with you guys. And, you know, we have to keep our state of amusement.

And you guys really help me do that. So thank you, Ryan. Thank you, Charlie. Thank you, Steve. And I do want to see those 10 jokes. Yeah, yeah, no, we'll connect. I need to get you on the show anyway. I would love to.

Thanks, Ryan. Bye. Awesome. Great talking with you, Catherine. Well, let's keep going on that same direction. I mean, let's get into the, you know, let's get into the absurdity of all this, if you guys want to since we talked about it.

Like this one more than anything, I think, or a couple of these that we talked about. I'm trying to find the ones. Like, here's the one I mentioned since I brought it up already. Of Trump saying, you know, are we still talking about Epstein? The guy has been talked about for years. This is crazy.

What a weird thing to say. Like, I mean, here's my point is that, as I said, actually, I did comment that I said, it's your base asking that question. Once again, showing the reality of the two-party illusion and the shrieking sycophans who now parrot this statement despite moments ago telling you Trump would expose it all, and it was paramount are showing us the reality of teamsport politics. But, you know, they must know that.

So that goes back to that point of like, why? What is driving their actions? And not to answer to the same question. I just think it's worth pointing out that I think something else is driving their actions. What do you guys think? It's the black hole we talked about before, Ryan, right? It's how do you measure the black hole by its effects on other, on things around it? Good point. Why is Trump behaving in this very peculiar way? Yeah. I wonder what sort of unseen influence is warping the, words that come out of his mouth or, you know, putting him in an unusual situation. But it's, I think we know what's, what's been going on with a lot of this. I mean, he belongs to intelligence. Okay, yes, which one? You know, that's really maybe the follow-up question for Alex Acosta is,

are we talking about just hours or foreign? Multiple foreign? I mean, Bob, Maxwell was a multiple foreign agent as well, right? So there's there's a kind of a semi-family tree, family shrub from the Maxwells and Epstein. And, you know, why wouldn't he be a dual agent? I don't, you know, or working for three intelligence agencies as Robert Maxwell was. I'm of the mind, though, that you can't be, that they're only, uh, there's only one. Yeah, what's the word I'm looking for? they only are honored like they only hold true to one of them like because how can't you how can you not you know that you have because at the end of the day it's really about sacrificing other relationships

for the interest of that goal you know so that's going to my six didn't give robert maxwell a state funeral right interesting uh you know his state funeral goes in a different country right yeah maybe that's how they measure it by where you're treated as a hero in in the afterlife yeah tony blinkin's step father didn't eulogize Robert Maxwell at the Rose Garden. You know. Try to find the other ones here.

The one about this was just to Alex Jones keeps doing this. The Epstein jail cell security footage is missing a full minute. Is this a setup to make Trump look guilty? I just can't effing believe that this people are doing this right now. Or the other one which was what, that, oh, they think that he has the list now and it's a trap

to set up the deep state. Yeah. I mean, of course, we should consider these things. They're certainly possible. But it's like, fuck, know how many times they can drive this without any evidence just about, you know, flailing into like what we can make, you know, conversation about to make this not feel like what it obviously is. It's just wild. Any, any answer except the undue influence of Israel is what they're going with. It's like, it's, they're betting on like the field.

Like, what do you, what do you think the answer is? Literally anything other than Israel is involved. Yeah. Right. So the thing that drives me nuts is that you had Pam Bondi out there saying, well, you know, there's horrible things being done to children on these tapes where it's not, it's not as if we could show them to you anyway. Okay, well, then who was doing them?

Because maybe you should go arrest them. Right. You know, wouldn't that be step one? Or the clip that we're all talking about, which now they're trying to wiggle out of, which is right here. Saw your appearance at CPAC with Ben and with. By the way, does she not look like like a, like a step one? a woman joker. Am I crazy? Like the way,

like it put out makeup on? I'm sorry, I had to say that. With Ben and with Ted Cruz, and one of the things that you alluded to, and this is something Donald Trump has talked about, the DOJ may be releasing the list of Jeffrey Epstein's clients? Will that really happen? It's sitting on my desk right now to review. That's been a director.

So, of course, you could argue that she just meant in broad the whole thing, but it was a pretty specific question, you know? And so now they're trying to wiggle out of that and saying no. to your point, Steve, I think is the most important. This, in conjunction with the claim of all the video and all the things they were seeing, you know, you can't make, the point today is it's not like we're trying to downplay simply having, you know, distributing child porn. That's horrible that you go to prison. But they're the ones making the claim of trafficking. They're the ones making the claims that require to charge that there's some kind of transaction. So they keep making

all these allegations, but they're not arresting anybody. And most of the Republicans I'm seeing are the ones going, you know, it's not even about that really. It's about where are the Democrats you told us to be arrested. So everyone's calling this out. They're also confirming that there's lists. Yes. Yes. Well, like, it's not us saying that there's a list. It's them saying that there's a list. So it's like, they're like, well, why don't you guys get off the list thing? It's like, well, you're the one that brought it up in the beginning saying that the list is on the desk. So what are we talking about? Like if you were, if you misspoke, say you misspoke. And before that, though, talking about how it was all of them, Bondi, Cash, Bonino.

All of them telling you that this is the Democrats, it's all about the Democrats. We have a, they're going down. You know, I just watched a clip of cash in an interview before this. Went point blank, you know, no, I know the FBI has it. And they know, like talking about the actual client list. You know, so they've dug themselves such an embarrassing hole. I don't know why they thought, like this is where I go back to that same mindset, you know, like why would they have done this if they knew they would come to a point to where,

you know, I feel like this country's being sabotaged in a lot of people. Don't they? Like, doesn't Trump have to get rid of, like dump them and just. just, you know. And then they're going to join the America party. Array. But it feels like they're being set up to just be thrown overboard. It does.

It does. The excuse that Pam Bondi gave for the missing minute, too, is, well, it's an old system. And when it resets to do the loop thing, it does that every time. And what do you want from me? I don't know. It's not like you could have updated the system in the Manhattan Correction Center. They don't have any money. neither barely scraping by.

Or the cameras that they swore were not working until suddenly now they are, but we have it. You know, it's like just, this takes a special kind of willful ignorance to not acknowledge how obviously this thing's riddled with holes, you know, but the, the internal aspect, too, did you see that about the bottle on the beds and all these different, like, there's just no way you could logically make this case or the autopsy with the hyoid point and how it's not possible with the amount of blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, you know, and they're just out here just really trying to force this in in an embarrassing way, you know? Because they have somebody, you know, they have such a

entrenched media apparatus that's paid to support them. I'm not talking about the people that are like Fairweather or anything like that, but like there's a full on multiple Trump propaganda arms. He's got his own social media network. You know what I mean? Like it's the, the, The amount of money that's being put into getting a, you know, ever decreasing percentage of the population to buy into this nonsense is incredible.

Yeah, it's wild. But again, diminishing number. I think we can all see that right now. But why don't we, unless you guys have any more thoughts on just the general social commentary of what this is, what is, how does this connect for you guys? Which was kind of the arc of this, you know, Epstein, all this, which control grid, you know, what I think we all can sense is the real story. around a lot of this, whether it's Israel's involvement, Mossad, Zionism, technocracy, through it all,

you know, the AI, all of this stuff. Like, how do you feel all this connecting, you know, with where this goes? Because it kind of arching back to the AI grid and everything else. It, it proves for people who are still trying to fight this red team versus blue team nonsense, that like once again, you've fallen for it. Yeah. Can you at least admit that you, all you MAGA people who thought, It was going to be, this time it's going to be different and you gave all the excuses. You've been had again, like admit that this is, that that's what's going on here. As long as you continue to cheerlead for, for, you know, or make excuses for your guy because he's on your team, you're forever going to be, you're forever going to be ruled by these people.

So at first, I just want people to have a sort of honest assessment that they were wrong, and it's fine. I mean, we all get it wrong. But if you thought Trump was coming in and it was going to be different, this time, he's fighting for us because they tried to kill him and all this. You've been had, just admitted. It sucks to, it sucks to admit it. But if you do, then you'll start the process of actually seeing what's going on here. And that these two teams, they work together. It does not matter who is in the White House.

This is far more important than who occupies that space of real estate. This is a much bigger agenda. And it rolls on regardless. In fact, Trump has been installed in there specifically to get all these right-leaning maga people to embrace this digital technocracy. That had it been delivered to them by the Harris. administration they would have rightly been opposed to but because it's their guy and their ideas and you know they're willing to look the other way or accept it or not do any research or whatever

like you have to treat both of these parties the same you why this start from a place of distrust yes and if they earn some of your respect over the years by doing things the right way Ron Paul. Then you, you know, you say, well, respect is earned. But the idea that of just blindly trusting your guy. Yep. In the White House is, is delusional thinking. And you'll get poorer results every single time.

And I think that connection of the Epstein point is because they're like we're highlighting. There's a lot of moving parts beneath that isn't just Epstein, just one part of it, right? But it gives you the window into this massive thing that I do think connects with all the things that are coming. And so this is about trying to put this important connection to bed before. That's what I would argue. And to your point, Charlie, you know, it's, it's okay that people, it's not, we don't hope for it. We don't want it, but it's okay that people, that you

were fooled. We've all been fooled. I was fooled. We all have a moment where you come past at the point is not to sit there like from our side either and be like, you all suck and you were wrong. But let's, let's be okay. We did it. We made a mistake. Let's come together and finally, like, you know, that's what a lot of us have been doing over the years in different moments, like even before the selection, and we got all screamed at, you know, but it's like, the point is, is to try to find the reality of the unity that we are all on the same side, fighting the power structure, not ourselves, you know, that's the kind of message I think to take from this is don't start.

Because what happens a lot, I think, is that then one, the newest element of the manipulation is to have these bots go after them all, be like, you're all more representing people who are on the other side. So then they get like this dug in feeling, like even though we're wrong, I hate that side. You know, it's like it enshrines division. Let's move past that. Well, and even in the naming, the Biden's build back better. What did the Republican base say?

Boo, that's terrible. What about that? Now, big beautiful bill. Same thing, dude. That's the BBB for me. Right. Exactly. That's what I'm saying is that it gets rebranded, resold, marketed to his, you know, to,

just a new audience, but it's the same, it's the same stuff. It's just with a new rapper on it. Yep. I don't know. Yeah. No, I mean, I agree, man. And I think this is, like, really starting to resonate with people. I think people are truly starting to call this out and see it.

I mean, yeah, I mean, I think we can see that, though. Like, that's my point about the many different fracturings of the current, you know, the current got, you know, part of the paradigm. Because it, you know, it depends on who's currently in the power structure. but you know when the left is in COVID and you know they had their own moments but right now for crying out loud like with with the whole which we should wonder whether it's building the america party but the whole trump and Elon split the Iran thing you know this reason epstein thing I mean we all see it Twitter is like oh wash with this right now of those trying to make it all make sense and do their tap dance and everybody else going like what the fuck is happening and so it really shows you that this is breaking through you know and that's what it doesn't mean we're going to succeed from it right like they could wrap you back into the next lie but it is one of those moments of clarity like I think I saw this the beginning. beginning of the Israel genocide, you know, where people kind of woke up from the haze going like,

what the fuck is this? What? Oh, yeah. I'm casting like it's the morning show, Steve. I'm forgetting. I wasn't good to say anything. I was just making notes in my head of the right Christian F-bomb tracker. Right. When I see you in the three, I'm feeling like we're on the morning show. So I apologize for cussing. I don't usually do it on the IMA or T-Lap. Anyway, go ahead. So, I mean, okay. So we're, we're watching. the controlled demolition of the political system, I think, with AI as the replacement government in the background.

And this to me reminds me a lot of the exposure of Joe Biden as, you know, a brain-addled kid sniffing incompetent who in no way, shape, or form is leading the country as the elected president. You know, like there were multiple mask off moments for, for Biden regarding that within the first six to 10 months of his administration. With the Trump administration, it seems to be like the same brutal reveal, but in a different way to the MAGA base. Whereas, you know, the Democrats, you know, were making every excuse under the sun of why this was the sharpest Biden ever and he's on it and he were, you know, all this. now that it's Trump and he's doing everything that we said was going to happen that we all got called crazy for it's making every excuse for oh well there's 5d chess with the deep state and the PayPal mafia is in there because they're the good transhumanist billionaires not the bad transhumanist billionaires you know it's so it's weird how that inversion is played out

but to me it looks like the exact same reveal I agree and it's a good way to look at it because what it shows you is that it's not unique to the caricature they're putting in front of you. It's just that, and you could argue that you pick people who can be used, Biden because he's senile Trump, because his hubris will run his decision-making process, and you can present him with false choices and he thinks he's in charge, or maybe not, you know, but you can look at it like that and see that the mindset is, you know, get people in position that we can simply snow and use for the larger agenda. It makes sense to me. It really does. You registered something with me, and if you guys want to, let's end on the topic of the,

you know, the America Party, which I do think. is really interesting. I was going to talk about it in my show yesterday, but I didn't get to it, like the weird split and almost the kind of like we all expected this moment. The third party shoe, how long we've been waiting for that to drop, not the real, you know, finally rise of third party fighting from grassroots, but like when they would take that and use it against us, is what my point is. And so suddenly we start seeing this. Elon, who's been cheerleading for the Republicans that are going to save the world. Now we're like, it's all the one party system. It's like, how do you take someone seriously like that, you know, or all these different

things. And what you brought up, Steve, what I think is fascinating to think about. He's been pushing the AI through Doge. He has XAI. Now he's rolling the America Party. How long until that shoe drops? And Elon literally promotes it as AI government. Like, that's an interesting way to come around to that. And we'll see if that happens. Okay, what do you guys think about that? And just the America Party in general. It feels like that's a logical progression for him, right? It's a one nation under Neurrelink. Yuck. That's a terrible thought.

With SpaceX and Starlink for all. That's terrible. What do you guys think about the America Party part of it, though? Do you feel like there's some genuine nature to that? Like that Elon might genuinely have woken up to the problem and we should hope for that, right? Anything that throws any kind of monkey wrench into their plans I'm in favor of. but when it comes from Elon who's getting government contracts, it's really tough for me to think of it as an authentic movement.

Ditch your government contracts then. You know, like, let's see what you got, which of course won't happen. They need each other. So it feels a bit like pro wrestling to me. Like we're going to form a new team, and we're going to come get Hulk Hogan the rest of those guys.

I mean, it just, I don't know, man. When I see Elon involved in it, look, I do believe that there is authentic frustration with the system. There is, obviously, that that's real. There's a real resentment towards the way things work. But that's the system is, as they say in Barnum world, the system is doing exactly as it was designed to do. That's the thing, is that you can't fix this system. The system is not fixable. It is running by design. You need to build a different system and then lure people away. And Elon Musk of all people should know that. Being somebody who likes to kind of reimagine, I don't know, the car industry and not, you know, and do things quite differently. He needs to build it first and then draw people into his way of thinking. And maybe that's his plan. Maybe this is all just theater. I'm, I'm, uh, I'm not voting for any of these people anyway, so that doesn't matter to me.

Yeah, yeah. What do you think, Steve? I mean, okay, the one business entity that represents the new face of government, who according to Alex Jones is the second most important person in Space Force, who has not just the Starlink contracts, but the Star Shield contracts and the SpaceX program and the boring company and the Neurrelink technology. That guy is so frustrated with the overall system that in order to save it, he's going to form his own political party because once one or two people from that party get into DC, they're going to fundamentally change the system from the inside out.

That's correct. That's correct. And this, you know, it really is. It's like, remember when Hulk Hogan and macho man Randy Savage were tag team partners. And they would, they would, you know, just run roughshod over the rest of WWE. But then there would be that moment when they fought and then they broke up and then they had different tag team. Like, this is exactly what that feels like to me. I'm going to agree with the Charlie on the pro wrestling element of it.

Oh, yeah. We're going to go into Washington here. And what we're going to do is we're going to kick out the swamp. We're going to drain that swamp here. Yeah. And, yeah, people are going to fall back. I am a real American. It's going to use the AI to drain the swamp, though.

See, this is how it's different this time. because it's going to be AI government, don't you see? And they were the white hats. The white hats have to, you have to have the good brain chips before you get the bad brain chips. I mean, we all know how it plays out. This is the, this is how you incrementally move society towards technocracy. Yeah. I mean, I think the obvious point is about, you know, whether you ignore, whether you don't agree,

you know, maybe you don't agree with all the points you're making about where this seems to be going, consider it. But even aside from that, you know, you're taking a system that Trump and Elon and everybody else's conversation has spent years criticizing left and right, not just because you need a new party, but telling you that it doesn't work. They've broken this, they're cheating there, they're lying, they're telling you the deep states controlling everything. And now he wants to start a new party through that. How do you explain that? How do you make sense of working through a controlled deep state Democrat run pedophile system? But we're going to do it it the right way. It's like, I just, it's, it's just so inherently stupid when you think about the facts,

but people will want it, you know, and I, we don't write a head of files in there this time. That's the missing component. And we all get it though, right? We understand why people want an answer. They want a savior. They want because we are living through a very ridiculous and dark time by, I think by design, but we're trying to call attention to the facts. And if, you know, if we, if you want the head in the sand, snowy vision, you know, you can find that every day out there. But the truth is important because we're trying to change it for the better, not just pretend we live in what we want, you know. So, but I'll end my personal point.

I do again think that the vast majority of Americans from an American perspective are willing and ready to start asking and talking about these questions. It's just about trying to get, you know, it's like with COVID-19 where we're in that limbo moment where we were trying to say, look, you're not alone. You're not the crazy person in the corner like the media is telling you. If you look around, everyone's feeling like that right now. We need that breakthrough watershed moment right now. That's what I would argue.

And that's hard to make. It really is. But I'll leave it with that if you guys want to have any comments to end with. No, these are just, these are always fascinating. And, you know, thanks as always to Catherine for coming in and giving her time. Yeah.

Yeah. I agree. We've got to have the talk about it, you know, so that we know what's out there and so that we can plan accordingly and do what we can to gum up. the system or as James Corbett says, salt your information. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Absolutely. Well, you know, you think it's important to keep having this conversation. You know, we will be having more. There's plenty more to come. And I'm looking forward to the next one, guys. So we'll leave it there for today. And I'll have it as anything else. Nope.

Thanks for, thanks for having us. And as always, everybody out there, question everything. Come to your own conclusions. Stay vigilant.