The Last American Vagabond - James Corbett Interview - Syria, Drones & The Ongoing WWIII

Starting point is 00:00:01 Welcome to The Last American Vagabond. Joining me today is James Corbett to catch us up on his perspective on what the hell is going on in Syria. Obviously, there's a lot of narratives flying around. Clearly, there's more up in the air than there is that we can prove. So James is somebody who has been covering this for a very long time, very, very insightful, he documents things more than anybody that I've talked to in the past. And so I wanted to bring him on to give us his perspective on what might have happened recently, but also kind of the background of the story and overlapping with some of the current conversations of today, drones and a lot of other things going on.

Starting point is 00:00:57 James, it's always an honor to have you on the show. How are you, brother? I'm doing all right, Ryan. Thanks for having me on. Yeah, always. And as I said, I really do think your long-term coverage of this is very, the word, I guess, intricate as one of the words jumped in my mind, but very detail-oriented, which I really appreciate from your work. So I know we got limited time today. So let's start with generally speaking the, you know, I guess the not so civil war of Syria and give us the breakdown on what that really was. Because I know average people tend to still regard it, even within the independent media, as a civil war. And I find that to be contrary to the truth.

Starting point is 00:01:32 So give us the background, the background. Yeah, I am very much on board with you on that. So if people want the sort of summary of this, I would suggest they check out my recent brief history of the war on Syria, in which I documented the 13 years of coverage that I've been doing on this, almost 14 years at this point. But long story short, we could go back to 2011, the early part of 2011, which was the part of that Arab Spring that, of course, started in Tunisia and was sweeping across the Arab world. And there were reports, as I pointed out, for example, in my recent podcast, the CFR and others were writing about, you know, things are happening in Syria.

Starting point is 00:02:13 And when they do, you know the Syrian government's going to crack down on this resistance. So they were setting the stage for this. And of course, inevitably some Facebook users managed to cobble together some protests, question mark. I think there are big question marks around all of that because even as the coverage of those events pointed out, Facebook is actually banned in Syria, but it's easily circumventable. And anyway, these spontaneous people protests resulted at any rate by the end of, I believe the end of January of 2011 in deadly, protests. And although it was framed at the time as, you know, Assad went berserk and started killing people willy-nilly, even the actual reports that were coming out, even in the establishment media at the time, were noting, no, they were attacking police, burning down police headquarters

Starting point is 00:03:02 and things like that in the city of Dara. And that was at any rate, the beginning of what has been called the civil war, but is clearly not a civil war. What we have seen is a foreign-backed, foreign-armed, foreign-trained, terrorist insurrection in Syria. Caviet as always, and I know that this doesn't need to be done, but I'll do it anyway. This is not to say that I think that the government in Syria was a wonderful thing, and Assad, the Assad family should deserve to rule over Syria and all of that stuff. I think an excellent perspective on that comes from, for example, Eric Margolis, a veteran war correspondent. He had a post that was reposted up on Ron Paul Institute recently on Death of Syria,

Starting point is 00:03:44 where he talks about his experiences in Syria and what. he went through there witnessing some of the terrible things that the Syrian government has done in the past. And he frames that in its proper context. He writes, for example, what are heavily biased media in the U.S. and Britain don't tell you is that the U.S. has been trying to overthrow Syria's different regimes since the 1950s. And he cites even Miles Copeland, CIA agent based in Syria in his book, The Game of Nations, which documents all of this. And he goes on to make the point. Syria's worst years were under an al-Aloid Air Force general, Hafez al-Assad, who seized power in a 1971 coup,

Starting point is 00:04:23 and until his death in 2000, he misrolled Syria with an iron hand, battling attempts by Islamist, communist, Nazarites, Bathist, CIA, Bridens, MI6, Francis DG, S.E, Saudi intelligence, Turkey, and Israel to unseat him. And Syria suffered eight coups since 1946. And these efforts led to the brutal repressiveness of the Syrian regimes. I was in the city of Hamas shortly after its terror Islamists revolted against the Assad regime. Tens of thousands were killed there. Hafez Assad did America's bidding when he sent troops to Iraq in 1991.

Starting point is 00:04:55 The U.S. long sent Arab captives to Syria to be tortured, particularly to link Iraq to non-existent nuclear weapons. And Hafez's oldest son, Basil, who was slated to replace Hafez after his death in 2000, killed himself in a car crash. In true mafia style, the Assad family forced the mild-mannered Bashar, a British trained ophthalmologist to become president. His brutal brother, Marr, became the real power behind the throne. So I think, yeah, Bashar al-Assad being this crazed psychopathic lunatic bombing his own people, willy-nilly, et cetera, et cetera, doesn't even begin to scratch the surface of the intricacies of Syrian politics and what was really going on there, et cetera, et cetera. but what this sincerely was not was a spontaneous people's uprising of just people, just the Syrian people making their democratic voices heard. That's total hogwash nonsense because when you start to look at it,

Starting point is 00:05:53 it was a smorgasbord of players outside regional global superpowers coming in to arm, train, fund, equip, and supply fighters for this civil war, no, this terrorist insurrection. the main players at the table have always been the U.S., Israel, Turkey, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, and assorted NATO members and other has-beens and also rants as well. But those have been the main powers that have been licking their chops in various ways for various reasons to get into Syria. And we can get into that and start breaking down who the players at the table were and what their reasons are.

Starting point is 00:06:32 But I think that's the way we have to understand what has just happened in Syria. and at the very bottom line of all of this, this is not good for the Syrian people. Syria was at least a functioning state in which you did have these different factions, an al-a-white minority, but you had Druze, you had Christians, Muslims, Shia and Sunni, and they all existed together in Syria, which had high literacy rates, good medical system, etc. it was not the failed state that it is now, the complete mayhem and chaos of a smoking battleground, which it has been turned into because of this foreign armed terrorist

Starting point is 00:07:12 insurrection. Right. And as we now see, as we can get into a moment, there's widespread evidence that that is exactly no longer the case, where you have religious minorities being persecuted all over this country right now. But so that's interesting. In a general,

Starting point is 00:07:25 in a broad sense, I'm really, this is again, like I said in the beginning, why I appreciate you work so much, is the objective perspective around this that clearly, from my perspective, any government, I'm never going to be the one going that government's, but I think governments are the problem, quite frankly.

Starting point is 00:07:40 But the point being is that the claims about him by and large have been fabricated and lie. It doesn't make him a good entity necessarily. But in a broad sense, with what you laid out, which is perfectly stated right there, do you see Assad in this context as somebody who was necessarily, I guess, hated by the majority to the people of Syria. It's a broad question. But I think the reason I'm asking that is because I tend to think that he's not just lied about chemical attacks and everything else, but also broadly misrepresented whether or not he committed lots of crimes like plenty of governments.

Starting point is 00:08:12 Like where do you place him in that kind of spectrum? Look, I'm not going to pretend to be an expert on the intricacies of Syrian politics because I have never lived in Syria. So I will defer to Vanessa Beale and Syrians and other people to give you that kind of perspective. But something that rings true to me is that Bashar Al-Assad was the face of the government, but the real power behind the throne being his brother seems like it is the kind of setup we see in a lot of different places where the person in front is the mild-mannered optomologist who I do not believe for a second. He was a crazed genocidal maniac who wanted to kill people. I think he genuinely believed what he was saying and what he was doing in

Starting point is 00:08:54 Syria was for the best of the Syrian people. But I think there were other forces behind that throne, as there always is in every country, in every context, and we would be naive to think otherwise. So the Assad family may be more of a power than Bashar al-Assad himself. At any rate, you are right. The chemical weapons lies and all of the other lies that we have seen over the past decade. Provable, demonstrable lie after provable demonstrable lie again and again and again and again to make Assad in the new Hitler slash the new Saddam, the new boogeyman of the week, was a ridiculous and a propagandistic effort,

Starting point is 00:09:30 but unfortunately worked on enough of the population for, I think, a lot of people to just go along with that narrative. Yeah, yeah, most definitely. I think that's the, you know, also I think it's easy for people who have a partisan reason to maybe look at it one way or the other.

Starting point is 00:09:45 I mean, that's kind of how our system tends to work more than anything today. But in general, I think that the main thing that jumps comes to mind outside of, I mean, obviously there's a thousand directions to go in around the background and that and we had 17 hours. We could get into it.

Starting point is 00:09:58 But so from that, point forward, you know, why in your perspective, your research around this, why now? What do you think was the changing factor? Because you really did a great job outlining that in the work around this, that there was clearly this timeframe that didn't, you know, 13 years and then it just on a dime, all of a sudden it just rapidly happened. So what do you think changed? One thing that's quite obvious that we could point to is that it was literally what, hours after the ceasefire in Lebanon that suddenly Syria just completely changes on a dime. I think there has to be some relation between those events. And that makes sense because, as I say,

Starting point is 00:10:33 one of the main powers and players at the table whose interest in all of this is just so absolutely blatant that I don't think anyone could even seriously deny it is Israel obviously has a strategic interest in the collapse of the Assad government and in the destabilization of Syria. Again, this isn't theorizing. This isn't, we don't have to go out in a lim on it. We have 1980, I want to say 83. At any the 1980s Ode-Dunan plan. We have the clean break document that was put together by the proto-neocons before neocons were even really a thing, but they were already working for then-incoming Israeli Prime Minister in 1996 writing his clean break, a new strategy for protecting the realm

Starting point is 00:11:15 document, which talked about the destabilization and containment of Israel's regional foes, including Syria. And why Syria in particular, hey, you know what, Baroque and clocks can be right a couple the times a day. So I will point people to a CFR.org post from last week about Syria after Assad, what to know about HTS, Hezbollah and Iran, where they don't hide the fact that, yes, clearly Israel is a big winner in this destabilization because it severed that Shia-Crescent land bridge between Iran and Lebanon. So Hezbollah has been severely weakened as a result of what has just happened. And so clearly, I think that there's,

Starting point is 00:11:56 the timing on that, the Lebanon ceasefire and then immediately transitioning into, let's bomb the hell out of Syria, seems to be related. But there are other players at the table. As I say, the Israeli slash U.S. side of it is, I think, quite obvious and blatant. But there are other sides of this that I think deserve mentioned. Saudi and Qatar, as I mentioned, have been heavily involved in arming and training some of these terrorists and supplying and equipping and sending them across the border, et cetera. but actually, I think Turkey may be potentially in a position to be one of the big winners

Starting point is 00:12:31 from what has just taken place because Erdogan, no fan of Assad and the Assad government, and more specifically, the Turkish power behind the throne, who could that be? Well, you could get an idea of that, for example, from a recent article that was up on global research, Arab countries will work to prevent the Muslim Brotherhood from long-term rule, in Syria. And it's an interview with Terik Ajib who notes, it is important to know at the beginning that the ideology and doctrine of Hyatt Terrier al-Sham, HTS, which are, of course, now the ruling clique, I guess, in Damascus, or seem to be. The HTS is very close to the ideology of the ruling justice and development party in Turkey. And during the years of the crisis, Turkish intelligence

Starting point is 00:13:19 was able to attract it, reformulate it, and adapt it, that is HTS, to serve. it as in the serve Turkish intelligence, and it seems that it has moved to the bosom of the Muslim Brotherhood. So you get the specter of Muslim Brotherhood participation in what's going on in all of this. And that should be ringing bells for people, for example, who remember my false flags documentary, where Muslim Brotherhood was certainly a part of that mix. And this is an organization that rose up in Egypt under the British protectorate, military protectorate post-World War I. And transnational Sunni Islamist movement that was on its face was against British colonialism in Egypt and was working against British. But the British used, that didn't stop the British from using Muslim Brotherhood, even covertly funding them documentably in 1942 as a bulwark against the nationalists and the communists and pan-Arabists and Nassar and people like that.

Starting point is 00:14:20 The enemy of my enemy is my friend. So where have we seen this before? Well, exactly what's been playing out in Syria. So there's a big playbook that they're working from here. And how does this play into what's likely to come next? How about this just coming from the cradle? U.S. officials say massive ISIS jailbreak possible if Turkish-backed offensive continues in North Syria.

Starting point is 00:14:44 Because, yes, the Syrian Democratic forces, the SDF are the Kurdish militia, which the U.S. has been supporting in the oil-rich northeast Syria, so that they've had control over that since 2015. But now HTS has talked about we need to get rid of these Kurdish groups and Turkey is going after the Kurdish groups. But the Kurdish militia control dozens of makeshift prison camps that hold tens of thousands of ISIS members and their families. So now that they're going after the Kurdish militia,

Starting point is 00:15:21 says, well, they're going to, obviously the ISIS guys are going to get out. And then all hell breaks loose. And they've called this essentially a, essentially a terrorist army in detention, according to a retired U.S. general who led CENTCOM from 2016 to 2019. So, oh my God, what Pandora's box are they about to open? But again, as we've seen, time and time and time and time again throughout the entire war of terror, not just the last 20 years, but the last 100 years of the use, formulation, and sponsorship of radical Islamic terrorism, this always plays into the hands of the manipulators who are the ones who foot the bill for this at the end of the day, and who can direct these terrorist boogeyman armies as chess pieces on the board.

Starting point is 00:16:07 They can move them into a country to completely destabilize a government that they don't like, and then when that government gets destabilized, they can go, hey, look, the terrorist boogeyman is there. Now we need to go in after them, et cetera, et cetera. Unfortunately, you and probably your audience know how that game is played. I'm sitting here thinking about what you're highlighting. I'm thinking to myself, maybe save for some remnants of the actual Syrian army that may still be there, which it doesn't seem that way.

Starting point is 00:16:33 What parts of this dynamic are not founded by U.S. and Israel right now? Pretty sure if everything happening in Syria right now, am I correct? Literally every part of it. In a sense, because remember, and I even cited the L.A. Times on this in my recent article, that this was not, you know, conspiracy news. Remember when the State Department funded terrorists were fighting against the CIA funded terrorists in Syria, remember? So they, yeah, they've been funding all sorts of different factions

Starting point is 00:17:01 that are now fighting each other, which gives this bizarre thing. But yes, of course, what is the bottom line of this? HTS has, and specifically Al Jalani or whatever he's calling himself this week, has specifically come out and said, We will not be using Syria as a launch pad for attack against Israel, which is weird, right? Because the entire backstory of Al-Biwani was that his grandfather was kicked out of the Golan Heights in 1967 by Israel. He was energized and radicalized by the second Intevada in Palestine. And he was thinking, you know, how can I fight for the oppressed, et cetera?

Starting point is 00:17:35 That's why he went into Iraq, where he was then sponsoring suicide bombings and participating in torture. and what have you in Iraq, gets caught by the U.S., put in Camp Bucca along with Baghdadi, the future commander of ISIS, right? And that's where they meet. And then, of course, when he eventually, Jolani eventually gets out from this terrorist incubator, which the Camp Bucca story is this whole other story. But anyway, when he gets out from this terrorist incubator, he meets up with Baghdadi, who sends him into Syria with whatever it is, several hundred thousand dollars to start wreaking havoc

Starting point is 00:18:14 and carnage in 2011, and that's exactly what happened. Now he is the man in charge of Syria, presumably. I mean, he's not the provisional prime minister, but he's the one calling the shots, and he has been very clear, we're not going after Israel. We're not going to attack. Isn't that strange? Now, why would that be? But again, it has to do with, okay, is HTS a proxy for Turkey? And how will that? Because Turkey doesn't want to fight Israel, that's for sure. They want to, They want to be a regional power that shares with Israel, et cetera. So there's some strange, strange political calculations that are going on right now. And I don't know.

Starting point is 00:18:53 These are some of the biggest moves I've probably seen in my lifetime in terms of the rejiggering of the Middle East. Yeah. Well, when I was first talking to Vanessa about this on the first, you know, it was, and she did make from very good points that I still think, stand, about how this started as more of a psychological manipulation that might have been taken advantage of. But ultimately that we're just kind of like, are we sure this is actually happening? Like, you know, you're right. It was such a dramatic and rapid move that it just wasn't sure if this was, you know, as you pointed out in the article, this is a not just a regional, but a world changing event in a lot of ways, you know?

Starting point is 00:19:26 So you mentioned the ISIS element of this. Just really quickly, I want your opinion on it, well, about the people in the prisons and so on. And you made the point about whether or not this could then become the justification. I'm really just highlighting what you said in there about whether they could either keep them and support Jelani as sort of the new leader or rather use him as the scapegoat for why they're out and then use it for the ongoing

Starting point is 00:19:49 you know, oops, hold on. That's frustrating. I'm not even sure where that's coming from. Oh, there it is. It seems to do that to me often these days. I mean, that was middle of the show. It starts playing in the background. Anyway, so anyway, so the point was that being stated as the possibility on that goes forward. I wanted your thoughts on very quickly on the

Starting point is 00:20:09 how this before this, before this caught this point, do you think that Russia and Iran in some way might have double-crossed Assad or Syria or like, how do you think that played out? Like with that looming point about knowing that there are terrorist forces, both in these prisons, that there are groups that are funded by the outside, do you think that's possible that they might have decided to kind of let this all go? I just, what are your thoughts on it? Because I'm juggling that right now and whether I think it's possible.

Starting point is 00:20:35 It is certainly possible. And I have no insight into this that I'll be able to say definitively one way or but it certainly does not strike me as beyond the pale. Now, I know that the raw, raw, Russia is the wonderful cheerleader of the world. We're going to, you know, Putin is great, are saying that, no, Putin saw that Assad wasn't going to stand up. He wasn't really going to defend himself. So they, they had to protect their interests and get out of there.

Starting point is 00:21:00 But that seems to contradict to that statement that Assad has released where he was saying, no, I was right to the last day. And I wasn't told that there was, there was not going to be a defense. and they evacuated me. So I don't know. I can't really sort that out, but I did see Syrian girl, I believe, on X was posting videos

Starting point is 00:21:20 of Syrian army soldiers frothing at the mouth, apoplectic that they had been abandoned by Assad and Russia and Iran. Just everyone had just abandoned them. And so who knows exactly what happened. But I could definitely see that there was, clearly Russia and Iran have

Starting point is 00:21:40 been propping up Syria for many years now and have been holding these forces at bay and they aren't they didn't in the past few weeks. So what deal was cut by whom and when? Not exactly certain. But certainly there was the Astana peace talks and things that were going on in Doha right before as this was happening and they were they were talking about it. And they even came out with a statement saying Assad is going to have to negotiate with the rebel forces. They weren't even calling them terrorists. So clearly there was some sort of backing. away from Assad that was going on at that time. Why at that time? Well, one, okay, here's one possibility. And I'm just thinking off the top of my head. So I, again, I have nothing to back this up.

Starting point is 00:22:20 But we do know that Russia did come out and say, Ukraine is helping to sponsor and train these HTS terrorists in Syria and giving them drones and teaching them and instructing them about that, etc. And that was later confirmed even by the establishment media. Yep, Ukraine was in Syria helping. Why is Ukraine in Syria helping terrorists undermine Assad unless, of course, it's a ploy to get Russian military attention away from the Ukraine front, right? So this is why this really is already world. We are in a world war. I mean, it's just a question of the proxy forces in, But clearly, if you have Ukraine in Syria trying to draw Russian and military attention away from Ukraine, clearly there is something much, much broader than regional war going on. So, hey, you Putin cheerleaders who think he's going to save the world, I'm not one of you, but I'll give you, I'll give you this.

Starting point is 00:23:15 Maybe Putin saw that and said, you know, okay, nice try Ukraine, but I'm not going to do that. I'm going to concentrate on Ukraine. That's more my strategic interest. So maybe he said, let's withdraw from Syria. I don't know. Again, there's so many possibilities. And it seems like the type of thing, we probably at our level of the information pyramid, won't be able to really sort out for decades to come. Right. If ever, like a lot of these, you know, kind of central moves in the past. But, you know, I, so I think I'm glad the way you frame that is good. I think that, you know, I don't know, right. The obvious information is up in the air. But the way that it all comes together just does not make sense, which is obviously kind of what a lot of us are highlighting that, you know, why they would have all surrendered? Why? it was such a rapid, you know, remove. And this is, the timing is interesting.

Starting point is 00:24:01 This is on the 8th of December. This was Sputnik. So reporting that he had resigned and called for peaceful handover, which nobody else seemed to report. Like the timing is just, you know, and none of it really lines up for me. And so one of the things I consider is that, that really, I guess, one or two things. Like, as you're highlighting that they either just made the decision that this is no longer worth it for them, which just doesn't make sense for the long term, or that maybe there's

Starting point is 00:24:23 a long term play here. Like, why Assad doesn't said anything? while, you know, maybe the play is for the larger long-term resistance element. I mean, that's maybe a little more wishful thinking. I think day by day that becomes less likely. But it's nonetheless very interesting to see how this is played out. And sadly, I think we see that the worst elements are now in control. And I am speaking about not just the people on the ground, right?

Starting point is 00:24:43 The elements that are doing this inside of Syria. So I want to talk about the aspect of these actual elements and give us, you know, a background, but also what we're talking about with not just high-trial sham, but, you know, Nusra that comes from, like the reality, I guess, like taking it back to this point, which you've done, which, where is that? Here we go. Your amazing work on the history of Al-Qaeda, like the history of what this is, kind of as a rapid course from the origin point to where we are now for the average person for,

Starting point is 00:25:11 you know, what this really is. Because I think even to this moment, people are very confused about whether these are terrorists, he's in a suit now, you know, so what is this group and are the origin point to Al-Qaeda and ISIS? And would you argue U.S. and Israel or? ultimately behind all of this. Sorry, can you repeat that last part? Well, the general point is the history of what we're looking at.

Starting point is 00:25:34 And then do you feel that the U.S. and Israel are responsible for what these groups are? There's no doubt that the, again, if people look at the history of the development of Islamic terrorism, there is no doubt that there has been Western involvement in that since its inception. And there is no doubt that Israel has been using the front of Islamic terrorism for its own purposes, I mean, as far back as Israel goes. And so, yes, there's no doubt in my mind that there is clearly a U.S. Israel interest in, not just in this particular aspect of the operation, but in the greater Middle East rejiggering plan that we talked about. And as, as I know you've pointed out, as I've pointed out, of course, we had the seven countries in five years plan,

Starting point is 00:26:23 which is 20 plus years later, and it still hasn't. you know, all taken place, but clearly there is a target list. I just don't think, you know, the pieces we're going to follow like the neocons hope they would. But given that calculus, the real question is, okay, what comes next? And does this set up the possibility for the attack on Iran? That still seems like a crazy, absolute, no doubt hot World War scenario to me. But maybe this is part of the complete containment of Iran. Or maybe they're going to try some sort of other operation within Iran to get some sort of regime change going there.

Starting point is 00:27:06 But now, anyway, now that Trump is in power, along with Netanyahu, I think it's all on the table. Well, let's talk about that. You know, the one point that really stood out to me in your article around this is something that I've, you know, it almost bothers me that we can't address how obviously. based on every metric we ever used to frame the previous wars as World Wars, that we've been in a World War since, I mean, you can go back a long way, Syria, even before, right? Multiple countries involved in multiple, not even just one field, but multiple fields of war in multiple places. So by any metric we've ever used, we've been in World War III for, I mean, what you tell me,

Starting point is 00:27:44 how long do you think that's been the case? And, you know, why, I guess first point, why do you think it's, why do you think they don't want to frame it as that? Do you think there's an agenda there? Yeah, that's a good, question because certainly there's a lot to be gained from the power structure in times of war. So why wouldn't they be gesturing at that? I mean, one way of looking at this is people could say, well, yeah, but no, this is proxy war. And that is still a form of Cold War turning hot or

Starting point is 00:28:15 something like that. It's not the full-on superpowers directly confronting each other yet. But we, I mean, as you say, it's in so many different areas and so many different aspects of it are lining up that it's difficult to deny the reality that there is a global conflict taking place right now. But as I've said over and over, I mean, World War III will look nothing like World War II. It will not be armies lining up on battlefields shooting at each other or that might be one aspect of it, but only one aspect of it. And this is going to be a war, the likes of which we've never seen before and which we can bear. fairly comprehend at this stage. And so when I see, you know, remember when China was going around dragging anchor, you know, cutting all those cables to, was it northern Europe, the internet cables. And now it turns out they were being directed by Russia to do so, at least according to the mainstream

Starting point is 00:29:07 narrative and things like this. Those are the types of things that, to me, are the sign of what, I mean, there's no doubt who the combatants are in World War III at this point. I mean, we know that the countries that are lined up against each other, and they're rubbing up in various different ways and permutations. The only point is when they start to openly acknowledge that and call it warfare. And when they do so, again, there will be many, many powers that will accrue to every power center in the world. Every government will get to claim that it's wartime. We get to do whatever we want, and we're doing it for your own good. So they will gain more power from it, which is why, to my mind, the most important thing that we need to be stressing right now before

Starting point is 00:29:50 all of this happens, before it takes place is, in fact, I've been talking about this in my bi-monthly appearance with Ernest Hancock on the Declarior Independence Radio Show. He has this idea. You know what? If we see a mushroom cloud anywhere, in any context, for any reason, whatever they say, whatever narrative they give you dirty nuke or whatever it is, that is the sign. it's off. Whatever social contract you thought existed, gone, done. We do not comply. We do not, that is 100%. We turn the other way and we do not comply or listen to anything the government

Starting point is 00:30:27 says. Because right now, the calculus is when there is a huge, spectacular terror event or some horrible thing that happens, the 9-11 or whatever, that's a big shot on the arm. The police state benefits. They get more power. They get more intelligence. Military needs to amp up. et cetera, and we give them all this power and rally around the flag and rah, rah, rah, we need to have the exact opposite perspective. The second that they say, it's warfare, guys, it's on. Oh, look at that. Dirty nuke in New York.

Starting point is 00:30:58 Oh, my God. We need World War III now. That is the exact time we need to go as hard the other way as possible and say, nope, your whole reason for existence. Government is to protect us and to secure the social contract and whatever. and you have failed. And until we start holding them accountable for their failures, instead of giving them more power and more energy.

Starting point is 00:31:21 And yes, please keep us safe, even though you've never managed to do that. Until we change that calculus, the calculus will always be on the side of the people who want war. We have to change that dynamic before the next war happens. Absolutely. Well said too. I mean, I think this is what we're all striving for is to kind of tip that scale because there's so many. I mean, I kind of think that's where it's going. It's why we're getting such aggressive kind of partisan pushback.

Starting point is 00:31:44 But, yeah, I think right now the Iran aspect is just clearly developing. I mean, I already saw Israel. I mean, they weren't even, I mean, they're still ongoing through Syria currently bombing Damascus and other military installations, which are objectively crimes because there's nobody fighting back. But they're already, Netanyahu is already putting out statements. Iran, you free yourselves from the dictator. It's already happening, you know.

Starting point is 00:32:05 And so I see that building as we speak. So where do you see that going? I mean, we've got Vance and Trump already saying that's like, I think Trump already actually said that he's considering striking Iran to preempt the nuclear discussion, which always bubbles back up, even though the evidence continues to not be there and so on. So what do you think the next steps are in regard to Iran from Israel, Syria, and so on? Well, from my understanding, Trump is the peace president.

Starting point is 00:32:29 So I think we're in for four years of sunshine, rainbows, and happiness. Oh, wait, no, reality just called. And the person who has praised Netanyahu at every step along the way, helped him with his campaign, his prime ministerial campaign there in Israel. He's called him a great leader who actually moved the U.S. embassy to Jerusalem. Did all of these things. It could not have done more to support Israel and what it is doing in the region. I wonder if they're going to amp things up against Iran and other Israeli targets in the region over the course of the Trump presidency.

Starting point is 00:33:07 All signs point to yes. So I am not holding my breath for the peace president to deliver us from what's going on over there. And I don't know what that will look like. I'm not going to make predictions because it could go a million different ways. But certainly the pressure on Iran is going to ramp up from here. And as I say, that might not necessarily be military confrontation. If it is, I can't see how that wouldn't be that hot direct superpower confrontation World War III. the second ever episode of the Corbett Report podcast was World War III starts in Iran.

Starting point is 00:33:43 And I stand by that. If they went military guns blazing into Iran, I just don't see how that wouldn't eventuate into World War. Having said that, it doesn't have to be. I mean, there's all sorts of subterfusion undermining and whatever. And oh, look at that spontaneous peaceful protest in Iran. Oh, and now they're cracking down on it. And who knows, Syria 2.0. there's many ways that it could go.

Starting point is 00:34:07 But unfortunately, I see very few ways that it could go peacefully from here. Yeah, I agree. Well, so we got about 10 minutes left, and I want to talk about drones a little bit before we end to kind of overlap that with all we've discussed. But before we end this part of it, in the context of just Israel's objective here, and this is such an interesting conversation that really deserves a lot of time to talk about it. But Turkey and Israel and that weird dynamic that you touched on there, which I just don't even think I don't think anybody truly knows whether, you know, it seems like Turkey is more in line with

Starting point is 00:34:37 Israel than not. And it seems to contradict other things. But you have the division of Syria, right, where you've got the United States with their controlled oil, wheat field, the dynamic. Then you've got Turkey that seems to want some kind of part of the northern area closer to them. And then Israel has its own little carved out area. The problem, though, is that they have a map that's quite different, the greater Israel dynamic, right? They seems to suggest that they want a lot more than what they're kind of parsing out for

Starting point is 00:35:01 themselves. So I guess the point in general is, you know, can you outline the greater Israel dynamic and whether you think that's playing a part here? And if so, how does that play out in your mind with their allies, if you will, wanting part of that? So for people who want the context of this and understanding, as I say, I've mentioned Ode, Yanone and Clean Break, people can look at policy planning documents like that. I know there were U.S. military college planners and others talking about the new Middle East back during the Neocon era of the early 2000. So there are several different ways that this has been envisioned and what constitutes the area of the greater Israel that they're going for. And I'm sure there are different opinions on that. But at any rate, they're going for a greater Israel.

Starting point is 00:35:45 And part of that is just actually literally expanding the borders of Israel. As we are starting to see, obviously, with the Golan Heights and what's going on there right now, just saw this before we started talking. Report. Netanyahu orders IDF to occupy Syria's Mount Hermon until end of 2020. until, you know, some new deal is made, right? Well, holding my breath for that to happen. Anyway, so Israel is literally expanding its borders.

Starting point is 00:36:12 But it also, an important part of that has always been the destabilization slash containment of any potential foe in the region. And at this point, after Iraq, obviously, and Israel got its way with getting rid of Hussein, and Iraq now having splintered into its factions, that, again, were being held under the admittedly brutally repressive thumb of Saddam Hussein. Again, no, apologies for Hussein or his government. But at any rate, it was another situation of these vastly different populations that were squeezed together in this powder keg that has now exploded into the different Kurdish and Sunni and Shia factions in Iraq. And now it's a complete destabilized mess. Is it even really a functional country? Well, to the extent that it is,

Starting point is 00:37:02 It's certainly no threat to Israel at this point. And that, I think, is the vision for Iran. And at the very least, breaking that Shia crescent has been an incredibly important part of that. Breaking the land bridge to Hezbollah in Lebanon has been an incredibly important part of destabilizing and containing any would-be opposition to this greater Israel idea. So it's happening. It's on. This is it. This is the reshaping of the Middle East.

Starting point is 00:37:30 And, you know, maybe we think of these. we think of Syria and Iraq and Iran as these entities that have just always exist. This is the way it is. No, these lines were drawn on maps after World War I. There's the Sykes Pico and all of this carving up of the Middle East that happened and pushing all of these

Starting point is 00:37:46 populations into these arbitrary sometimes borders that didn't always reflect reality. And maybe this is reality coming home to roost, but in the worst possible way it's being used. All of these powder kegs are being deliberately lit and set off so that they can

Starting point is 00:38:02 basically fall apart and fall into sectarian violence and people warring over the ashes of countries that maybe don't even exist. Does Syria even exist as a country at this point? Right. I guess we'll find out what happens from here. But to the extent that it does, it will be some, again, hammered, cobbled together coalition of probably some incredibly brutal and repressive regime. And we're going to see once again, certainly who's at the bottom of this and who's going to end up paying for it is the Syrian people. Right. And then as always, even if that's not the design now, months down the line, they can then use that destabilize, even as you said before, the very elements they funded into reality, they could use that

Starting point is 00:38:41 to begin the next agenda, to reoccupy whatever else. Let me just underline that because that's such an important part. All of this, it's completely and totally narrative. And the absolute clearest example of that that I could ever even imagine happening has happened in Syria over the past decade and a half. where you literally had CFR fellows writing on the CFR blog saying, Al-Qaeda, well, we need Al-Qaeda in Syria now. And that, when that was being written, was literally just a decade after 9-11.

Starting point is 00:39:17 And to go back to 9-11 and telling people, you know, the Al-Qaeda definitely did this, all by themselves, guys, totally 100% them. And they are the existential threat to civilization. And the reason that we have to tear up the world and completely transform our lives and everything. over this al-Qaeda threat and then telling someone from that time, you know, 10 years later, they're going to be the good guys in Syria. But that just shows it can be flipped on a dime. And absolutely, they could do that literally tomorrow. Hey, those guys that we were funding in Syria,

Starting point is 00:39:48 turns out they're terrorists. Oh, my God. And they will do that at the exact point that it becomes politically advantageous for them to do that. And unfortunately, again, people who just absorb the news, just let it wash over them. We'll just go along with it. Oh, okay. Oh, good. Well, I'm glad they're going to take care of that terrorist threat now. I mean, I've said this so many times over the years that, you know, the boogeyman of yesterday is there is, or rather the ally of yesterday is the boogeyman of today. It's, you know, Saddam Hussein, you know, their allies before they become, you know, or even the Kurds, who knows what that'll happen tomorrow, you know, just clearly that's the

Starting point is 00:40:25 cycle. But before we end with a couple thoughts on the drones, I think it's interesting about the World War III point that we may. mention the idea being in my mind that it's only because it's not advantageous yet, right? That we've met that metric many times. That's just when they can say now what's happening, like you just said, right? And that's what shoes going to drop at some point. And I brought up an interesting thought to me that you kind of touched on there that I've thought of before about Syria, but like with Libya, for example, you know, Libya doesn't exist right now, despite it's still being Libya on a map, still having a name, you know, and so Siri's the same way. And so at what

Starting point is 00:40:54 point do they say, yeah, that's just a balkanized area with the people we control in seven in different locations, when they decide to let that be the case, when it will be useful for them. You know, and that's what I think's interesting is the maps will be drawn the way they want them to as long as they want them to. I just find that to be interesting to point out. So go ahead and comments enough if you'd like, but last few minutes, your thoughts on the overlap to this because, or to the drone conversation, because to me, it just stands

Starting point is 00:41:19 out as a very manipulated and obvious psychological operation despite possibly being very real, obvious examples of drones. So what are your thought on how this plays into what we're talking about? We've already seen them aim numerous agendas through this at Iran, like through Alex Jones and others. Then suddenly tomorrow it's a sniffing drones for nuclear aspects. They say from Russia, you know, so give me your thoughts on how this plays out and, you know, where you think it's going. Well, that's why I think it's incredibly important that we have that idea, you know, nuclear war comply no more or something along those lines as seeded into the public consciousness right now because it is certainly a false flag card that is on the table, isn't it? that they could, oh my God, it turns out they're sniffing for nukes or whatever.

Starting point is 00:42:00 And that's why you've seen all these drones. But yeah, on the broader concept of drones and their use in warfare, I'll just point out that I recently, very recently, before this whole drone hysteria took off in the way it did, I wrote an article called the drone wars, you are not prepared, talking about the ways that drones will be used in warfare in the coming future. There's no doubt in my mind that that is going to be a significant. part of what we think of as warfare in this next iteration. As I say, soldiers lining up on battlefields shooting at each other with guns. No, no, I'm looking at drone swarms and other crazy technology like this,

Starting point is 00:42:38 and that is being seated into the public consciousness with this as well. And of course, you know, if it turns out it's those dastardly whatever, Chinese, North Korean, Russian, Syrian, whatever, whatever it is, whatever boogeyman they need. Oh my God, they're invading us with their drones. they will pull that card out of the, out of the deck as well. So I think people need to, at any rate, I know your listeners, your regular listeners are well informed on this sort of stuff. But unfortunately, it's sort of the average person on the street who spends two seconds thinking about any of this and just accepts whatever the establishment media is telling them. That's where this battlefield is really located. It is located in the space between your ears.

Starting point is 00:43:20 And as long as you control that space, then you are, also. ultimately winning this war. And that's why they are spending so much time and so much effort trying to occupy that space. I think we win to the extent that we can maintain our cognitive territory and integrity. Yes. We're all said, James. Always a pleasure, my friend.

Starting point is 00:43:42 And I'm going to end with the clip from Palantir that was played at the Army Navy game that was talking about the future of drones. Nothing to see, guys. No connection there. Just all up in the air. So thank you, as always, James. I always appreciate your insight. As always, everybody, question everything.

Starting point is 00:43:56 Come to your own conclusions. Stay vigilant.

The Last American Vagabond - James Corbett Interview - Syria, Drones & The Ongoing WWIII

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