The Last American Vagabond - Scott C. Smith Interview – EPA & Norfolk Southern Continue To Hide East Palestine’s Dioxin Poisoning

Starting point is 00:00:00 But I want to get back to one thing about the intentional explosion. It's my understanding that the vinyl cord was an endothermic reaction, meaning the rail cars were cooling down and there was no need to explode it. It's not too late for even whistleblowers to come forward from the fire department. Welcome to the Last American Bagabond. I have a special interview today, something that I've been really, I've been covering quite a lot since this started in regard to East. Palestine and there's been a lot going on around the world. And it's something that I think,

Starting point is 00:00:57 as you guys well know when you watch me talk about it, that I've been very passionate about, something that I find almost difficult to get into today because of how much has happened and how little it's being covered and how little it seems the EPA cares about it. So I decided to invite Scott C. Smith back on today to discuss the current status of what's going on there as well as some interesting FOIA requests and some censorship that he's been dealing with and just kind of bring this topic back into the focus because it's really incredible to me. how little coverage this got even within the independent media. So again, for those that haven't seen our previous interview,

Starting point is 00:01:30 which was entitled The East Palestine Disaster and the continuing EPA cover-up, Scott C. Smith is the chief sustainability officer of eco-integrated technologies, joining me yet again today to discuss what's going on. How are you? Scott, good to see again. Hey, Ryan. Great to be here. Thanks. Thanks a lot for having me. Yeah, it's my pleasure, man. And you're one of the few people who have really been consistently staying on this story. and I really appreciate that.

Starting point is 00:01:54 So, you know, we talked a lot about the previous, as the title very clearly outlined in how this started. And I'll get into some more backgrounds as we go through some of the topics. But for those that are unfamiliar with this story, the basic reality, and let me know if there's any part that I'm leaving out, essentially where we have the episode that took place in Ohio East Palestine, where the train derailed. And Norfolk Southern took it upon themselves to rapidly get this train out of the way, took action. took actions that ultimately ended up with an uncontrolled burn causing lots of pollution and dioxins and all sorts of other things and we'll get into it more again today. And my problem with this is the cover up that immediately took place, the lack of concern even in the immediacy of getting the train out of the way only to re-dig up the train tracks and all of the lasting problems that have

Starting point is 00:02:41 continued and your work has shown that they don't seem to even still, no one's even talking about the fact that they're still sick and that there's still, there's new evidence that has come to light about what they ultimately should have done. But we can get into any of that. I'd like to start today with your recent censorship, your FOIA request, and why that's important, this larger story. So please begin wherever you'd like, but I think those are the parts we can talk about today. Again, thanks for having me, Ryan. And I think independent media is actually becoming the truthful media. The so-called mainstream media has not covered this censorship story. And why it's important, and I'm appreciative for you having me on, is this can happen

Starting point is 00:03:21 to anybody listening, anybody out there when you don't go along with an official government narrative that is controlled by a multi-billion dollar company like Norfolk Southern in an East Palestine situation. I'm very appreciative for the government accountability project reaching out to me and giving me also whistleblower status. And they have been around for 40, 50 years, supportive of Edward Snowden, supportive of, you I'm on Three Mile Island. And I also know from what limited FOIA requests, there's 120 people at the EPA watching

Starting point is 00:03:58 every move I make. They're trying to get all my personal information. They're running a smear and defamation campaign. But I also want to say, I hear a lot from EPA. I've been doing this for 17 years and over 60 disasters. I just want to say, well, 95, 99% of the EPA people that reach out to me and talk to me and encourage me to do this, they're good people. At the EPA, the cream does not rise to the top, meaning you get to the top when you're basically auditioning to sell out your fellow Americans and constituents and communities.

Starting point is 00:04:32 So you can go work in the lobbying firms or you can go work for these so-called contractors that are not independent. So there's a lot to go over here. And I want to say for those of you that are watching me from the EPA, from the railroad, and if you're struggling to, look yourself in the mirror these days. You can come forward to me or government accountability project. You don't have to go public like me and they will protect you because I know there are other whistle, potential whistleblowers that don't like what they see going on. And it's going to be, you know, independent media like yourself, Ryan, that helps educate people. I'm really glad you said that too. It's such a, it's, it's, it is definitely a problem. I'm really for anybody, but specifically in the kind of

Starting point is 00:05:18 battle of the media where we tend to, and obviously today it almost seems like a good bet to to assume that most people within it might be corrupt. That's just my personal opinion, but it's still a wrong thing to do to assume that everybody within every institution is all part of some, you know, grand, you know, your point that there are still good people that work there that maybe don't know that this is, that what's going on at the top or maybe you're trying to change it from within. So I think that's an important point. You said that. Yes, reach out, Scott, myself, anybody to the government accountability, project if you've got something to say about this because it is one of the most glaringly

Starting point is 00:05:52 obvious situations of corruption that I've ever seen because of, you know, your work and previous others like Andrew Welton and who have studied, tested there, excuse me. So ultimately, let's, I want to start with the censorship, but ultimately, let's just start actually really quickly with where the problem still lies. Because obviously your point was that you found levels of dioxins that were higher than they should have been, or maybe you can kind of go into that as well, but where is it currently at? As I understand it, people are still having symptoms, still getting sick, even to the point to where at some levels feel like it's getting worse. Is that still the case?

Starting point is 00:06:29 Yes, it is. And I still have probably 40 to 50% of my testing, some of the most important testing, I'm waiting for the results. But where I am right now is approximately 35 to 40% of my test results identify hot zones, meaning dioxins in particular are significantly above the six parts per trillion background. I won't get into all the detailed science, but this is important to know, especially to counter the false narrative coming from the EPA who's acting as the PR firm for Norfolk Southern. In the situations where I say a hot zone where clearly the dioxin burden has increased post-derailment, you know, we're looking at, you know, four, four. 500% and greater.

Starting point is 00:07:19 So this is not insignificant. But in the same breath, with all the smears and defamation against me, what the EPA and the railroad, I think they pulled the trigger too quickly on me because my testing, when you look at my testing around 60 to 70% of this testing is identifying dioxins within background. So in somewhat of an ironic way, my testing limits the railroad's liability. and it focuses on where the real liability is. And if I were using these dirty shovels

Starting point is 00:07:54 and all these crazy things that I'm being accused of, these are government employees at the EPA, I wouldn't be coming up with 60 to 70% of these results in background. That's a very important point. But yes, people are still getting sick. And to put it in simple terms, February 3rd, the first event, the derailment in the smoldering burn, may likely have created far more dioxins than the February 6th second event,

Starting point is 00:08:22 which was the intentional burning and blow up. And we've got a lot of data to go through on this, and we're still analyzing it. But there's a third event, and I'm going to be out there on February 3rd for the anniversary. I've been invited to speak, and I'm going to be revealing more data related to about what I'm, because there's a third event,

Starting point is 00:08:44 and that is the excavation. in the cleanup. East Palestine has what's called clay dust. And it's my understanding from soil experts, that's the worst thing you can have for these dioxins and these small particles. So what they did, obviously, clearly, the controlled burn, many people believe

Starting point is 00:09:00 that that was done just to get the, that should not have been done. There was no need to do it, but for getting the railroad function again and, you know, getting their revenue stream going with freight. So what they did, they did the remainder. kind of backwards, meaning they saved the worst for last. And all of these dust particles, which the EPA has refused to test for dioxins,

Starting point is 00:09:26 have appeared to have since the remediation, appear to have increased what I call the burden and the contamination on the community. And I say that because I've been testing in February, in March, and then subsequent in June, I was testing the sediment of sulfur run, which is. the creek literally within 50 yards of ground zero. And what we saw were the dioxins declined a little bit between February and March. And then after April, what did we see April 14th out or about or after was the increase in remediation and excavation releasing all these different particles?

Starting point is 00:10:07 And then when I was there in June, we saw a significant increase in these dioxins. And the EPA is very clever here. They're not to be underestimated because they do not do any independent testing. When you really press them, they review the testing of the so-called independent contractors that aren't independent. And let me tell you directly, I had a direct conversation with CTEH. And your audience, you can Google them and see their checkered background. I asked them point blank at one of the public information sessions. I said, if you are truly independent, can you go test wherever you want?

Starting point is 00:10:47 Can you join me to test? No, we can't do anything without the railroad instructing us. We can't release results. We can't decide what's us. And I just kind of looked at them and said, okay, well, that doesn't seem to meet the definition of independent to me. And there's no answer. And they just look at you in a dumbfounded way. What was the full name?

Starting point is 00:11:08 And give me the quick background on CTH again because they have a history, right? Yes, CTEH. I believe it's the Center for Toxicology and Environmental Health. And there's another contractor called Hepico, each H-E-P-A-C-O. And, you know, I was threatened by them. They came out of the woods, you know, demanding to know who I am and everything going on. And I said, well, tell me who you are. We can't give you that information.

Starting point is 00:11:33 It's always a one-way street. And Ryan, I want to be very clear, I continue. And to this day, even with the EPA smear campaign and the railroad PR smear campaign, I would go back and because dioxins stay around pretty much forever. I would go back and test side by side. My offer remains open to the EPA to test side by side. I even offered it to meet with the railroad and share as long as it was reciprocal all the detailed testing reports.

Starting point is 00:12:00 They won't share those. They throw spreadsheets up that really don't have many details behind them. And then the EPA makes it appear as if the EPA did the test. testing. The EPA is not doing any testing. They're reviewing it. So that that is clear. So I mean, it is, it is, you know, you got to have a sense of humor doing what I do because dirty shovels, wild accusations. Again, the EPA, why is the government agency not working with me? Right. This in good faith with my own money, stood on principle to help this community. Why is the EPA with, think about this, 17,000 employees in a $12 billion budget. Now, I don't know where all these grants go.

Starting point is 00:12:48 I won't get into politics with the EPA, but you can read about where EPA grants go and make your own decision whether or not are they're wasting money. It's a captured agency as far as I'm concerned, and I don't think that's too harsh. I mean, I think most people can see it up today. And it's not even for $300,000, they could have done all this testing.

Starting point is 00:13:08 people have health symptoms. EPA refuses the test. Railroad refuses a test. They reach out to me. And I got involved in this because the community reached out to me on Twitter. You know, and I'm very thankful for Elon Musk buying Twitter. No matter how people feel about him, I can tell you firsthand, my Twitter platform kind of exploded after he bought it. Tweets related to this kind of environmental stuff that I did years ago, all of a sudden, we're getting traction. And a resident reached out to me on Twitter. So I got to really give credit to the independent truthful media.

Starting point is 00:13:45 And I encourage you to add truthful after you say independent. Independent truthful meter and the platform of Twitter or I probably wouldn't have been able to help the community because I didn't. And I was only going to go out twice. And that has led to 22 trips and 26 rounds in testing. And I'm told I have the most thorough. comprehensive testing of any researcher doing this in any government agency. And your background speaks for itself. You're not somebody, you're not, you're, this should be dismissed in this regard. You know what you're doing. So 22 different tests,

Starting point is 00:14:19 times testing, and it's been reasonably consistent with the alarming amount that you're finding? That's correct. And again, the alarming amounts, the hot zones, we call them, are around 30 to 40% of the testing results. So 60 to 70% are not. So this is not. So this is not. all bad news. And as I get accused of all these things, by the way, I have 25 patents to my name. And I also say regularly when I get attacked, science is acquiring knowledge in a systemic way. So the issue is, I say a lot of times of these public presentations, what to the lights in the room, your smartphones, and your computers have in common. And I'd say Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, and Thomas Edison. What do they have in common?

Starting point is 00:15:05 None of them have PhDs, let alone college degrees. Now, I have 25 patents to my name. Thomas Edison is still the most prolific inventor with over 2,000 patents issued. And he's referred to as a scientist. And also Thomas Edison doesn't even have a high school degree. So when I'm speaking about this, part of the things I like to deal with the smear and the defamation with humor, I say, I only have 25 patents probably because I'm overeducated, you know? because I only have a master's degree.

Starting point is 00:15:34 So I don't, you know. Only, yeah. So I really want to cover that because, you know, all of my patents are based on environmental work in real world disasters with third party testing that I do rigorously. I wouldn't get those patents through if I was out, you know, playing games. But basically everything the EPA and the railroad PR people and lobbyists have accused me of, they're guilty of.

Starting point is 00:16:00 And I can prove it. And to this day, despite everything going on, subpoenas, invasion of my privacy and trying to violate my constitutional rights, I'd invite, you know, media like yourself or any media, let's test side by side. That offer remains open. So what is the EPA withholding? I, you know, and I'm very thankful for the government accountability project reaching out to me. That's what Norfolk Southern, and I think the EPA, they don't know how to deal with this now because they didn't expect me to get that. kind of support. And if you don't have my subpoena response to Norfolk Southern, basically I had given a presentation on October 18th and October 19th, I got served in my driveway by the sheriff for Northford Southern.

Starting point is 00:16:52 I called my attorney and said, I can't believe they're doing this. So I even in one interview said I would cancel my Thanksgiving, go into court. and I wish, you know, Norfolk Southern keeps threatening a motion to compel. I said, bring it on. I want to put cameras in the courtroom and talk about this. They actually believe they can violate my constitutional rights, my right to privacy, and they've got the EPA working with them all along. So what was the subpoena for exactly?

Starting point is 00:17:16 What are they accusing you? All my communications with media, all my communications with residents, all my testing details that I paid for to help the community so they could continue to harass and bully, you know, residents. too. Wait, so let me understand this correctly. So you've been offering your results, even to work side by side for new results. Instead of accepting that, they subpoena you to get the same thing that you're willingly offering. Like I explained that for me. It seems well, yeah, they subpoenaed me. Well, I wasn't willing to offer because I'm a private citizen and my communications

Starting point is 00:17:50 with residents. Oh, I see. That remains private. But as far as what I offered to share with them is the detailed testing reports on the condition that they share their details and the locations of where they tested with me. So instead, they just sue to get your rules without reciprocation. They refused. It's not a lawsuit. I'm not involved in a lawsuit. I'm not a hired consultant. I'm not plaintiff. I'm not party to it. So this is kind of unprecedented with what they're trying to do these. So what the point is, Ryan, I offered to share my detailed testing reports if they share. If they share theirs with me. They refused. They only want a one-way street. The EPA continues to smear me. But they've kind of backed off now after government accountability project and the FOIA request. And the interesting

Starting point is 00:18:45 thing is they're withholding something like 2,000 documents with my name in East Palestine. So what is the EPA? Not only when they test in areas where residents, are reporting health effects. They won't test side by side with me, but they work for us taxpayers. So why are they withholding all these documents? What's going on? And you can see what I posted on Twitter.

Starting point is 00:19:10 So I go on Fox News, interview with Will Kane on the Tucker Carlson show, March 17th, and March 20th. And the limited discovery, this Barbara McCree, an EPA multimedia person, communications person, is requesting my personal information.

Starting point is 00:19:32 That's this image down here, correct? That's correct. That's correct. That's correct. And then on the other, there's some other tweets I put out where there are 120 people. I was told that three people, there's 120 people from the EPA. They literally file reports in East Palestine. I saw him here.

Starting point is 00:19:51 He did this. He talked there. So I don't know why they're so focused on this. and what are they have to hide, but why this matters to all your viewers and anybody that sees this, even if you live 2,000 miles away from East Palestine, this could be you next. This could be a train derailment, a spill in your community. Right. And you could be speaking out saying people are sick and you will be targeted like this.

Starting point is 00:20:19 So here's what I'm so, this is, this is actually what you just outlined. I want to make sure people don't miss how important that is that. So the EPA, whose only mandate is to keep people safe, keep the environment safe, like, you know, exactly what they pretend they're trying to do here. And instead, and to be clear, actually, to preface before I say this, what you, Andrew Welton has found similar testing results. Texas A&M have found, they've found the presence of dangerous levels of dioxins. And yet, and we even know that I think both the CBC and even the EPA elements, but specifically the CDC, went and half their team got sick with the symptoms exactly what you would expect from, not just dioxins, but other problems, as we can get into, the mixing problem you've talked about. And yet, instead of acknowledging any of that, they're going after you, they're suing you from the Norfolk Southern side.

Starting point is 00:21:06 They're trying to suppress your content on Facebook. Like, I don't think people can see that and not, the only way that would make sense is if they are arguing, and let me know if this is what they're stating, that what you're doing is unnecessarily worrying people about something that's not real, but your results are backed up by numerous other independent testing. So I think that's a very transparent example of them just straight up trying to suppress what the reality is showing. Am I wrong in that? You're absolutely right. And that's a great way to say it. And also I've gone on record. I'll test side by side. Let's share everything in reciprocity. And if I'm wrong on something, I'm the first to go public. I'll do a press release and announce it. And I'm here to collaborate and work with them. But what I've, you know, when they are gaslighting telling residents, it's your lifestyle. It's the chemicals you're exposed to. Here's the simple thing, Ryan, with. without my testing. These health symptoms were not ubiquitous in the environment prior to the

Starting point is 00:21:59 realment. The female menstrual cycle issues are real. You know, it's horrible what women are reporting. Children, issues with livers, kidneys, kids that didn't have asthma, rashes, burning, and strokes in everything. And I've even reached out to become friends with Marilyn Leisner, the last mayor of Times Beach, Missouri, where there was a dioxin spill. She started describing eerily the same symptoms that are happening in East Palestine.

Starting point is 00:22:32 And from talking to Maryland, these symptoms in East Palestine are happening in an accelerated pace versus Times Beach. And here's another very important point. And I've been in over 60 disasters in 17 years, starting with my own. There has never been a disaster like East Palestine with these mixtures of chemicals. Wow. EPA continues to disingenuously cite a singular exposure to a singular compound, like a benzene oil compound.

Starting point is 00:23:01 Well, there's something called synergistic toxicity, and there are no standards for mixtures of chemicals, period. And they will not say that. And what I got censored over was a very well-done piece by the Huffington Post by Chris DeAngelis, yeah, the roll of the dice. and and this is not me saying making it up or I think I've been censored. This is a fact where I provided, you know, as part of the government accountability project press release, I provided the screenshots of Facebook.

Starting point is 00:23:36 You know, Facebook reached out to me. They confirmed me with a blue checkmark. I've said, you know, in my mind, I've done far more controversial things without ever having a flag on my account. So for the first time ever, I reposted, a mixture of chemicals and a resident Jamie Ray Wallace, the leader of the Unity Council, she put it on my timeline. And I got flagged for those two that that's, you know, affected my good standing. And we also have Mark Derno from the EPA texting residents to

Starting point is 00:24:08 take down Facebook posts. Think about the government agency. And that's part of it. And these are irrefutable facts. This is not speculation. When they state that, Not that they necessarily ever even need to or do, but what are they saying is the justification? Are they claiming the posts are false? Is that what they're saying? Yeah, well, it is clickbait and false. Yeah. And then in a confirmed blue chuckmark person at Facebook, you can call and get people online,

Starting point is 00:24:36 but this is by design. The person I talked to has no clue on this. And this is where the independent journalist like yourself could really make an impact by digging deeper. And this is, what I'm about to say is speculation because it's not proven yet, but I've heard this repeatedly that Facebook makes a lot of money being paid by government agencies. That needs to be confirmed whether it's true or not. And how it works is they literally do have a Chinese wall between like whether you're confirmed or not. If you talk to Facebook, the person I'm talking to is going to have no clue about what's really going on. But if there truly is a flow of funds to Facebook and the.

Starting point is 00:25:17 government has a special person they call to flag posts, that that needs to be exposed. And again, we know that's not happening on Twitter anymore, which is why Twitter is probably the platform, if you want the truth out for independent media. So, um, just really quickly, I do think that that is a even with Facebook, I would argue that's a proven reality. I frankly, I still think it's happening on Twitter as well, but I would agree that things have gotten a lot better, even for my account, being able to share certain things. I just wonder if there's more types of manipulation going on. But either way, I want people to hear that. Even with Facebook in particular, this is something that has been proven, many times over where they acknowledge you or not. So I agree with you.

Starting point is 00:25:58 So if we indeed, you know, and there's a lot of talk this year about democracy, democracy. Well, if we don't have our constitutional rights and free speech and we have the government paying private companies to censor us, it doesn't matter. There is no democracy. So, Why don't, you know, the elected officials on both sides of the aisle, are they so compromised? They're not going to do anything about this? Yes, in my opinion. I think so. Let me ask you a couple things.

Starting point is 00:26:29 I'd like to get into both the kind of the questions about the shipping and the mixture as well as we briefly touched before on clean harbors. And I wanted to ask you more about that. But before we get past that, I wanted to ask you a couple quick things. one, you mentioned the parts per trillion. And I do think this is important. And my audience is actually pretty well versed on this. I've been going really deep or have in the past around the historical, you know, argument of the accepted levels versus what they should have been.

Starting point is 00:27:00 The stated reality is that they've, their own research has shown that they should have lowered the acceptable level a dramatic amount a long time ago and just never did. So where is that currently the stated, if you, on top of your head, if you know, the stated level of of where dioxins are supposed to be safe? And what is the actual level of where they're safe, based on your research and even their EPA's background research? And where is it actually being found right now? If you could go over that.

Starting point is 00:27:25 Well, dioxins accumulate, and it's actually complicated. Great question, by the way, Ryan. But we know the background, meaning a background level of dioxins measured by TEQ, that's basically an index because dioxins are called, there's hundreds of congeners. So it's based on the toxicity of,

Starting point is 00:27:44 the relative toxicity in an index. So based on the TEQ, it is accepted by experts that a background reading of six parts per trillion. Now, background means where there hasn't been a contamination event, there hasn't been a spill, there hasn't been an explosion. So that's what we use as background. So if you're six parts per trillion or under, that's within what we call background. Now, one of the contractors for the railroad released a report and wreaked a lot of havoc and said they were recommending 4.8 parts per trillion as as you know things above that and then the EPA and the railroad were furious with that and then shut it down. So you do see evidence, you know, there there there there still are far many more than majority 90% plus of good people working at all these places.

Starting point is 00:28:41 They're under such threat. That's why I'm encouraging more. more whistleblowers to come forward. And potential whistleblowers have been in touch with me. And I know they're scared. There's, you know, most people aren't, you know, as crazy as me willing to stand up to this. But there is. I'm glad you are. There's no better cause to stand up for.

Starting point is 00:29:00 And I'll fight to the death for the truth on these things. But back to your question. So that six parts per trillion on a, on a two, T. You basis is what we're doing with the soil and with the sediment. Now, again, you can't underestimate the spin job of the lobbyists and the PR people at the railroad. And the EPA is effectively the public relations arm for Norfolk Southern. I agree. And so what's the level that you're actually finding?

Starting point is 00:29:29 Like, for instance, I showed this report was based on your work, the show I did anyway, the title, which was there was examples up to at least 14,000 percent more dioxins in the filters you were testing in the homes. compared to the control. So does that 14,000% more than six part per trillion? Oh, that's right. Yeah, yes, exactly. That's relative to the six. And, you know, even 30 parts per trillion, 35 parts per trillion, that's significant. And we're, you know, there's some on the anniversary, I'm going to talk about some more data. And I, you know, I will say, if it's okay to say, you know, news nation is, is one of the independent truthful media sources. If it weren't for them, I wouldn't have been found by these other experts

Starting point is 00:30:15 that have volunteered their time, and I wouldn't have been able to help the community because I can tell you, all the other mainstream media outlets get shut down to try to cover a story about me because of the power of the railroad. Now, I even spoke at one, in a local gymnasian with a PR person from the railroad.

Starting point is 00:30:36 they're all ex-mainstream media. I mean, Norfolk Southern, to their credit, got a very good way they go about shutting down anybody that doesn't agree with their false narrative in that also it is a fact on opensecrets.org, Norfolk Southern spends $1.7 million a year on lobbyists. 80% of the lobbyists are ex-government employees.

Starting point is 00:30:56 That's where I keep saying the independent media needs to drill down because I know how it works in the back channels. You know, FOIA causes major issues for them, but the Freedom of Information Act. So why can't the EPA turn over these 2,000 documents to, you know, what are they withholding? What do they have the help? I think that's becoming obvious based on your work. And really quickly, I will give, I would give a shout out to News Nation and Cuomo.

Starting point is 00:31:20 The interview you did was really well done. As much as I've got criticisms probably of anybody you want to bring up, but I do think they did a great job on that. I'm glad to see other people trying to get this story out, you know. So please continue. I want to- Yeah, no, I always give credit to where credit is doing. And Chris Cuomo.

Starting point is 00:31:35 and Rich McHugh and all that, News Nation, I wouldn't have been able to help the community with, without their, and their coverage is very fair. They ask the tough, good questions. And I know, before I stopped speaking with the EPA,

Starting point is 00:31:51 the EPA is extremely frustrated because all the public information offers, they could not shut down News Nation. Right. And they really want to. Yeah, I agree. I wanted to bring this up based on the parts per trillion and just the concentration.

Starting point is 00:32:05 I think I even brought this up the last time we discussed, I had the last interview. This isn't a report from the year 2000. And this is a United States, U.S. government report. Long range air transport of dioxin from North American sources to ecologically vulnerable receptors in the, none of its Arctic Canada. The report just to sum it up really quickly, and I'll include this for the people in the show notes, is about North American sources. And this goes back to old reports, even seeing. ended, did work on this the 90s, showing you hundreds of times more than should have been

Starting point is 00:32:40 dioxin levels than there should have been in like fast food and different byproducts. The point of this report was to show you that these byproducts coming from North American sources were going all the way into the Arctic Canada. And there wasn't, I think it was 50 miles in any direction. Was there any sources of dioxins in the area? And yet it was showing up in the breast milk of the annuit woman breastfeeding their children. So just to make that point about the fertility discussion you made, the point you made about the people in East Palestine.

Starting point is 00:33:05 If they can go this far, and I believe we're talking about specifically TCDD, which is the worst level, the highest, the most damaging, most problematic, all the way that into North Arctic Canada, I just want people to realize if we're finding this, if you're finding this now in these areas, it's a foregone conclusion in my mind that this is much bigger than just East Palestine. You're correct. And the digging, what I call the third event, the remediation, digging up and releasing these dust particles in the air.

Starting point is 00:33:33 and you know, we're all breathing in dust. You can't even see it. It's so fine. So no one's talking about what I call the third event and the remediation, but when they're digging, I get all these calls with people getting sick. And they're not making it up. That's incredible. Well, one of the things, too, you said about the shovel.

Starting point is 00:33:53 I find it really fascinating that the only argument they could make is that you somehow are using a contaminated shovel 22 times in a row or that everyone else did the same thing. Like, that's just such. I just had to point out. Or I'm picking and choosing spots where I know the dioxins. Again, you can assume all that might be true, but then my results, why am I getting 60 to 70% of my results are within background? Right. And that's good news.

Starting point is 00:34:18 I mean, let's look at it. I mean, this is the data. This is the data. The good news here is I'm, you know, not all areas have been impacted and are within background. So that is good. And if I were using these dirty shovels, there's no. way I'd have the majority of my testing within background. And I had somebody accompany me for a documentary and he said he's never seen anybody sterilized shovels before. That's funny. And meanwhile,

Starting point is 00:34:47 the independent contractors use high school kids and they've actually put out videos where they're not even operating within protocol. It's the thing. If they want to accuse me of, because they know what they're doing to game the system. Right. They want to accuse me of that. So they want to accuse me of that. So again, after everything that's gone on, and they'll be watching your show, they watch everything I do. And name the time place, EPA, railroad, PR, people, lobbyists. Let's test side by side. Let's invite the media. We can revisit any place I've tested.

Starting point is 00:35:17 And we'll do split sampling. Right. I mean, if I'm going to excuse you, that's the easy way to prove it, right? That's right. That's right. And what is the EPA hiding in the FOIA request? Right. Now, I don't know.

Starting point is 00:35:30 You know, some people have said, I don't know that it's against the law, but there's a lot. I did get the attention of a lot of the so-called mainstream media with that Barbara McCree looking for my personal information. That is, that is alarming to a lot of people. It is. And again,

Starting point is 00:35:46 I'll include that for people to check out, just the alarming reality that this is from, you know, her email address, the idea that there's a direct contact trying to shut down what you're saying and on Facebook and so on. I mean, to me,

Starting point is 00:35:57 it's quite frankly not surprising at all, but I think the average person might find, that a bit shocking. I'd like to ask you something about the the actual burn. Now, first of all, you said controlled burn. Now, I think it's quite clear this was based on the idea of the lack of floven form of oxygen, that it would be an uncontrolled burn. Is that correct? Yeah, let me, let me, yeah. I used that phrase, but it was actually the more accurate phrase is an intentional explosion. Interesting. An intentional uncontrolled explosion. Okay. The weather patterns that day were the where I understand from the weather experts, it was there was like a thermal inversion.

Starting point is 00:36:35 It was the worst possible day you could have with weather to keep that hovering. Right. That's just unfortunate. Well, I want to ask you about this. Now, this is a part that I've really been harping on because I don't see very few people are talking about this. Now, this was a show I did on the 19th of July, 2023. Now, in this hearing, the investigation found that the uncontroll, that the uncontrolled,

Starting point is 00:36:59 that the uncontrolled burn was unnecessary. And that was because, and this is coming from his conversation with the, with his team and then relaying this to the, the volunteer fire chief who ultimately they pressured to make the decision, that they said it was treated vinyl chloride. And that that was all, it was, his words were unlikely to have, to explode. And then Alan Shaw and Norfolk Southern did not relay that to the independent fire chief.

Starting point is 00:37:25 When he then, and then pressured him to make a rapid decision to do the, Byrne itself. Now, what do you know about that? Do you have any insight into that? I find that really important. Yeah, it is very important. Right now, you know, the fire chief will say the EPA and the railroad and the fire chief was from my gathering of the evidence to date, the fire chief was kind of set up to say it was his decision. He's on the record saying to some degree or another that he was essentially railroaded, no pun intended, like literally said that he was pressured. And I think that's really important for the record. Yeah. Now,

Starting point is 00:37:59 the fire chief also has you know smeared her question now i didn't know he was a testing expert but let me say this i will not do what the fire chief and what the mayor of east palis north fork southern is very clever there but here's where i asked the independent media why don't you look into the has the fire chief have a new house a girlfriend fiancee wife has she been hired by the railroad has his daughter been hired by the railroad I'm closing these questions for you to look into, Ryan. And, and, you know, check the existing mayor. When they're pushing back on their own constituents of their town and not helping them, watch, and I've seen this over and over again in 60 disasters.

Starting point is 00:38:44 Now, I'm not, I'm just asking the questions, but you need to watch the local people that are going after their own affected community and just see. real estate transactions. I would encourage you to look at real estate transactions. I might know a little bit to just, and this needs to come from the independent media about this, because this needs to be exposed how this happens. Because again, for your listeners and everyone watching,

Starting point is 00:39:16 this could be you next in your community. You don't think it's going to happen until it happens to you. Well, now, I mean, what you're speaking on there, I agree with are just logical things that we should. to be looking at, but it seems that you're speaking from some experience. Now, have you seen this happen in the past? Can you speak on that? You've seen this. No, I can tell you for a fact, I've seen in other disasters where the local elected official not making much money, all of a sudden you see them driving around in a new fancy truck, new car, and all of a sudden there's a second

Starting point is 00:39:44 home in Florida. They're moving. You know, this stuff. It's very real. It's not a coincidence. But I want to get back to one thing about the, um, intentional. explosion. It's my understanding that the vinyl cord was an endothermic reaction, meaning the rail cars were cooling down and there was no need to explode it. But if you wanted to get it all out of the way and not take the time to remove it and get the tracks up and running again, I don't know how the freight works. I don't know. I think that's a major freight corridor. I don't know how the freight forward contracts, you know, the railroad, maybe they would have had a tough time, you know, and lost hundreds of millions of dollars. But, but that logic, I understand it.

Starting point is 00:40:33 And don't agree with it. But we will find out in due course. So find out what exactly? Well, we're going to find out who really made the decision. It's something. Okay. And it's not too late. You know, it's not too late for even whistleblowers to come forward from the fire department, from the police. There's a lot of funny behavior with the police and people being arrested. and Norfolk Southern hiring police at like $60.80 an hour, I'm told. Wow. Then targeting residents and being accused of, you know, falsifying receipts and all kinds of things. Now, the other thing, it strikes me, anybody who has ever reported a crime,

Starting point is 00:41:16 it's very hard to get a district attorney to immediately take up a case. But the fact that the railroad is getting so many people charged. So, hey, if someone. uncommitted fraud, they deserve it. But the way this is going down, I'm suspect of a lot of it. I agree. I agree. Well, actually, I have a question about that and the money and stuff going forward if you have any insight into it. Before we go past this point, though, so what would you argue the logic is there? So if this was, if they knew, and again, this, I want people to understand this. This was in the hearing, this was admitted to it was discussed that it was not necessary. And it was

Starting point is 00:41:52 because that what you described. So then why would they have chosen to do that? Why would they have chosen like not just the uncontrolled burn and the byproducts that caused it, but that is part of the whole decision, but just choosing not to try to deal with it another way. What do you think the logic is there? I believe, didn't they get the train tracks? I think doing the intentional explosion and getting everything out of the way was probably

Starting point is 00:42:16 the most expeditious way to get the tracks up and run to get the trains running again. So just money? that's that's that's that's a logical conclusion from this yeah and this is just hypotheticals people listen yeah you know my i honestly wondered look money would make sense right i mean it's money is pretty powerful motivator but i wondered whether there was something else involved like why they would then you know lay the track to get the train moving only to dig it back up again you know i just wondered what else was going on there so i guess the point is we don't know and it doesn't make sense I think people need to understand that, that they made a willful decision to cause this problem

Starting point is 00:42:54 when they knew that they didn't have to. And if that's just money, man, these people deserve to be in prison. That'd be my opinion. That's right. But in the issue is you've got it, again, I can't say undue influence enough. There's undue influence all over this, whether it's the local fire department, police department, it's bad. And, you know, and the EPA.

Starting point is 00:43:16 I mean, I think the EPA started out serving. the taxpayers and communities, you know, what, 40, 50 years ago, but everything's evolved. I mean, you can say this about the other government agencies too. Oh, yeah. I agree. Well, let's talk about the discussion of the actual shipment of the material. And also, and we didn't get too deep on it, but I mean, I think you did basically go over it, but the idea of the, you know, the mixing of these and that was discussed in that article

Starting point is 00:43:46 and why that is a bigger problem. But specifically, we've talked about the, the shipment. And this was my first coverage of this forcing Ohio toxic waste that were in first, it was locally on facilities that were not able to process either dioxins or PFAS. And I included PFAS because there was some level of this. And I thought it was interesting to show that that wasn't, was also not treated, but just focusing on the dioxins because and I, on both of these episodes, this one I entitled that Clean Harbors Waste Disposal Ohio scandal, I called every single location. And personally, and in these shows, it's recorded. I have on.

Starting point is 00:44:20 the record have the evidence where I have them on the record stating that they are not either incapable of dealing with dioxins or weren't even aware that was in the process. None of them were incinerating. They were all being buried for the most part. So that's an incredible important story right there that they are spreading this problem around. And apparently I guess it's under the argument that dioxins weren't that big of a problem and that, but they aren't really addressing that now that it does seem to be showing up even as they dragged their feet for, I think, like a month to test for these in the first place. So you had mentioned in the past something about clean harbors. And there was more of the story. So first, just on the issue of shipping it across state lines and how that can

Starting point is 00:44:55 spread. But what more is going on with clean harbors? Do you have any more insight in there? Yeah, I've dealt with clean harbors and other things. In fact, I went to a meeting where clean, you know, in the environmental world, clean, you know, clean harbors makes a lot of money with what I call the revolving door, hiring government employees and in deep with elected officials. So it's all about making money. And not about protecting the environment and the communities. They talk a good game. Again, they've got a lot of good employees trying to do the right thing. Right.

Starting point is 00:45:30 But these dioxins, I understand, are specific disposal should involve incineration, and that's probably too costly. Well, and on top of that, too, and you probably know this better than anybody, that my research has shown that it's kind of a debate between the highest level people at the highest level saying, and so on side, that it's even the highest level incineration, actually doesn't completely remove it. The ash shoot, I think the ash that comes out, spreads it again, even though there's some that's removed.

Starting point is 00:45:57 So there's a debate on whether it's even capable of being removed. But my point is that on the record, they've stated that they don't have it in any of these locations they're sending it to. So they don't even have the ability to use the incinerator on these things. So what would that accomplish or what would that do? So if they're shipping this dioxin, potentially dioxin-laden waste all over state lines and then basically burying it in these areas or using other processes that they aren't able, that provably will not remove the dioxins.

Starting point is 00:46:25 What does that look like to the average person? Explain what that's doing. You know, I explain, you know, I just recently rewatch the Sopranos. So it's taking the dead body and the evidence, taking it a long way and burying it, you know, burying it. Yeah. Well, here's a good question then. It's burying of evidence and, you know, spreading it around.

Starting point is 00:46:45 So do you think, and this is hyperboatsy. hypothetical, just your opinion. In the past, there's there, I forget who actually brought this up. I'm blanking on the person, but they made a great point about historically in disasters. You'll find that there's essentially two ways they can go. And it's, I think it's obvious for Norfolk, Quentin, this one, but they can accept maximum liability and minimize the problem as much as possible, or they could spread out the problem intentionally and essentially try to minimize their liability, but it increases the fallout of the people suffering. And the point being that the more they spread out the problem, the more they can make an argument that it's just the background, right? That it's not there in the longer

Starting point is 00:47:21 away they get from it. The more they can say it's for other products, other byproducts. Have you experienced that in the past? Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And it's all about they know, generally speaking, the media, the mainstream media is easy to play with all their undue influence. And they also know the short attention spans of people, the longer, if they can punt three to five years down the road, they're already positioning. You can hear the EPA saying, oh, we don't want to test in homes, people's lifestyle chemicals. So God forbid, people get cancer and start dying, which I'm concerned about. You know, as people get sick down the road, things are being set up. So Norfolk Southern can say, oh, now you smoke cigarettes in college, it's your lifestyle, you know,

Starting point is 00:48:08 it's your, well, the thing about this, if it were chemical products in people's homes like the EPA is talking about those products should be banned. It all goes back to none of these health symptoms were ubiquitous in the environment. I said before the EPA and the real in North, work Southern said, mark my words. They're going to come out and say all this stuff's ubiquitous in the environment, nothing to see here. And that's affirmative. And we can prove otherwise. Exactly. That's so frustrating. Well, so let's finish today with what's currently going on. Like what's the real level and what's the real, I guess, you know, again, it's hard to put an exact number on it. But the. real percentage of people in the area that are truly suffering and how what's the level of suffering

Starting point is 00:48:47 they're still dealing with this far after what happened well i there's something called synergistic toxicity and the way i explain it is let me give you a positive well of chemical synergistic effects and that as everyone understands migraines and i've taken you know uh aspirin combined with caffeine that works on a migraine well aspirin alone not so effective caffeine alone that so that's a positive. So the same thing with there's no standards on mixtures of chemicals. So you've got hundreds of chemicals here mixing in ways in an unprecedented way in a toxic mixture cocktail. And every human's different. If you're on, and this is, this is a fact from some of the doctors on my team. The, our vets were dismissed over these burn pits in the Gulf War. It's in your head. It's psychosomatic.

Starting point is 00:49:36 It's PTSD. And it's been proven. You know, you're on all these medications. You don't know how this is mixing. So you can below the benzene or can be below the single exposure to a singular chemical, that is completely irrelevant because you don't know how these chemicals are combining synergistically. Right. I think that's a really important, you know, the idea that almost a willful disregard, that's just the first one I grab, but there's a, there's a lot of history around how wildly damaging these burn pits are and they've known that and covered it up. But, you know, the idea being that it's, they should be testing these, obviously, right? It's the same thing you could argue with a lot of different medical aspects or pharmaceuticals,

Starting point is 00:50:18 that they deliberately do not test them alongside each other while essentially arguing you take them at the same time. So why would they not, well, shouldn't, I mean, aren't they required to do these kind of testing? Why aren't they doing that? That's the same question I have. I mean, it's, it's, the whole system is set up the joint unified command center is the joint Unified Propaganda or false narrative center. It's all being called by the railroad.

Starting point is 00:50:44 And there's a whole system that is broken. It is corrupt because you've got high-level ex-government employees behind the scenes working this outside of the FOIA system and everything else that the responsible party hires. The sad reality, I think Norfolk Southern spend $8 or $900 million. You know, the sad reality is, I believe, Norfolk Southern could have saved a lot of money. because all this money is going to line the pockets of the incestuous system, the revolving door with government employees. What did they pay PR firms?

Starting point is 00:51:19 These contractors that don't want to get, that are on record, don't want to get the contamination out of the water or anything else quickly. The more trips they make to the landfill, the more money they make. Right. And I don't want to, I'm not defending Norfolk Southern, but the system is so far gone. I'd make the case that Norfolk Southern, maybe would be able to spend only four or 500 million.

Starting point is 00:51:42 You look at East Palestine, someone's houses appraised for $100,000, give them the option to buy $200,000, buy them out for $1.5,000, $2,000, $150,000, relocate them and give them medical care for life. I could make the argument that the affected residents, probably around 30 to 40%, that the railroad not only would save a lot of money, but more importantly, they'd probably enhance their reputation if they did something like that. But the system is so far gone and so corrupt by elected officials on both sides of the aisle and how this whole system works. And that was the last thing I was going to ask you or really just get your thoughts on. You basically just went over it. But the idea that,

Starting point is 00:52:26 or I mean, you didn't, you mentioned that they were what they originally, I think, argued they were going to do. But as I understand it, they just spoke up. before the year ended, saying that at the end of the year, basically right around Christmas, that they were going to no longer be funding, you know, people to live in the hotels and live outside the town. And as I understand it, even the money they were offering for these homes were, I mean, not really pennies in the dollar, but way undervalue, which is not what they ultimately promised. So do you have any thoughts on that before we kind of wrap today? Yeah. Yeah. Well, they want to get out. It's, it's part of the whole corrupt system that I talk about because look, look at the

Starting point is 00:53:03 $25 million for a park and they flooded the businesses with money so they get all the businesses speaking out against the victims of this and the people reporting reporting health systems. It's all by design. So they can say they put $100 million in the town, but yet the people crying out for help are being ignored and they're being vilified. They're being gaslit and they're being told they're the reason for their health conditions. It pains me. I mean, it's so incredible to see this so obvious, so self-evident with so much evidence in independent researchers, multiple finding the same things.

Starting point is 00:53:41 I mean, or even again, it's like I said before, the example where the CDC sends their own team and half of them get sick and we act like it was, I think they literally said it was exhaustion. I mean, it's just absurd to see these kind of things happening. So thank you for continuing to stay on the story. I do think this is more important, even still, than people are giving it credit for. And sadly, I think it will, if this is not addressed properly, like many other examples in the past that you might have worked on, this will only continue. And that's my biggest, it might make us problem here. So is there anything you want to leave us with today, anything we didn't touch on in regard to the censorship or going forward? And let's end with talking about how they can reach out to you and help.

Starting point is 00:54:18 Yeah, I think for the viewers that are interested in no more, I think every American citizen that cares about, you know, constitutional rights and free speech should go to the government accountability. project and see the press releases involving the recent work. And also, I'm not, I don't get into politics, but there's also a local doctor, Dr. Rick Chai that I've done testing with. And he's seen the corruption firsthand. He's running for Congress. And I'd encourage people to hear him and interview him. It's not political because it's a very unique situation.

Starting point is 00:54:55 I've never seen anybody in this disasters with have that kind of integrity. willing to put himself on the line because he's seen corruption at all levels. So people can do more research on him too. But also, Ryan, I'd like to come back on maybe around February 3rd or thereafter. There's going to be a lot more developments and a lot more news on some of the stuff and work and test results I'm doing around February 3rd. Outstanding. We'll count on it.

Starting point is 00:55:21 Let's set that after the show. And let's make sure we do that. Well, you know, and thank you. I mean, quite frankly, I'm always very skeptical about politics, but I really hope and we should lean into anybody we truly think is trying to make a difference. Now, lastly, I'll include, I mean, everything we discussed today, as always will be included in the show notes. But reach out to Scott if you've got something to say.

Starting point is 00:55:41 If you work with the EPA, if you work with any of these groups, if you're a fireman that was there, and you see something that you want to share, you know something that you want to get out. Please reach out. Make sure you follow him. Follow his work because he's doing excellent work on this. So thank you for continuing to fight for the people that are being ignored. And I look forward to speaking with you again.

Starting point is 00:55:59 And anybody that wants to reach out to me, the best way is we know that Twitter is not as censored as Facebook. So at Water Warrior 1, ONA, you just flashed it out. People can reach out in private. And, you know, what I see optimistically is some of the people that potential whistleblowers, they're nervous about their lives and careers. And I get that. But they can come forward in an anonymous way to me or government accountability project. And I know there's a lot of good people at the EPA that in the police department and the fire department that they have trouble living with themselves and looking in the mirror knowing that with the corruption that's going on.

Starting point is 00:56:38 Absolutely. And that's the best point right there is, you know, if come out and prove it to the world that these things are not so far gone, that we can change things for better, you know. So I really hope that you do get some people reaching out for that. Oh, yeah, there are also whistleblowers of some of these contractors like Hepico and C. T-E-H that are very scared, but hopefully they will come forward officially and they can stay anonymous. Good. Outstanding. Well, again, I'll look forward to speaking with you in February and thank you for your work, brother. And as always, everybody out there, question everything. Come to your own conclusions. Stay vigilant. Thanks very much.

The Last American Vagabond - Scott C. Smith Interview – EPA & Norfolk Southern Continue To Hide East Palestine’s Dioxin Poisoning

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