The Last American Vagabond - Shannon Joy Interview - Fighting For Truth In A Partisan World, LA Chaos & The Impending Lockdowns

Starting point is 00:00:23 Welcome to the Last American Vagabond. I have Shannon Joy here today to discuss the chaos of the world, the independent media, upheaval and all the different things going on in the world today. We haven't connected yet. This will be the first time we've connected online, and we're really both looking forward to having an engaging conversation because, you know, I see her work in a, in a part of this field that I greatly respect. She comes at these things in an objective way, nonpartisan, trying to find the truth.

Starting point is 00:00:49 And I think as crazy as that seems like such a basic thing, but you'd be surprised if you're new to this, how many people in this field, you know, and we briefly talked off air about it. We'll, you know, whether willful ignorance or just deliberate action will fall into that category for many different reasons. So maybe we'll touch on that overarching point. But we'll get to some current events today, talk about things going on. I imagine Los Angeles and riots protests, Palantir, you know, health-related focuses

Starting point is 00:01:14 and we'll start probably wherever she sees is most important. But thank you for being here today. And Shannon, it's great to have you on the show. How are you? Oh, it's so great to be on the show with you. I'm a great admirer of yours as well and your work. The group of independent media outlets, presenters, creators that you guys have put together is just so important. So I've been really looking forward to this interview. And yeah, it's like a fire hose in your face every single day. Because everyone's lying. I mean, that's the thing. you know and and and and to your point i would say uh the most radical position in the united states of america today is one that rejects both political parties the left right and it boggles my mind every time i you know i see that this you know play out with the hegelian dialectic problem

Starting point is 00:02:15 reaction solution you know the false fads the the the the creative controversies and how they just always move us. I mean, if you, if you observe politics over a long enough period of time for me, it's been 12 years since I started my show. It was a radio show for 10 years before I moved into video podcasting and platforming two years ago. But I have been observing and reporting on politics for 12 years from this perspective. as an independent. And just to see it play out over and over and over, it doesn't matter what the crisis is,

Starting point is 00:02:58 doesn't matter what the controversy is, it doesn't matter who's elected. The infrastructure continues to be built, and it's an infrastructure of massive tyranny, unlike anything that we have seen in our lifetimes or perhaps human history, given the technological advances that we've seen just in the past decade or two.

Starting point is 00:03:21 So independent media is so critical. We have to support each other, protect each other, allow each other to disagree on certain issues because a lot of us are coming from opposite. I mean, I was a conservative, Republican, born again. I'm still born again. But I mean, my entire life grew up on Rush Limbaugh, never voted for a Democrat in my life, started my show.

Starting point is 00:03:48 And then hit a brick wall. I was like, what the heck is this? Once I started paying attention, I realized Republicans were just as bad as the Democrats, if not worse. So, you know, finding each other and allowing each other to disagree on some of these legacy issues is so important. And I think also to your point, you know, also understanding that, you know, sometimes it's not that the person is totally paid off or totally corrupt or a CIA agent or a change agent. And sometimes they just disagree with you and they're not privy to the experiences or the information that you've been privy to.

Starting point is 00:04:24 Now, sometimes they are change agents and they are CIA or intelligence, you know, and discerning that is always a struggle. But it's why I like to have conversations as much as possible with people. So, I mean, I put a lot out there. But yeah, congratulations on your commitment to being independent, coming to your own, you know, conclusions on things. and really helping so many Americans and people across the world come to the truth in their own way. So I appreciate you a lot. Well, thank you and vice versa. I mean, it is interesting to think about, excuse me, that something like being, you know, nonpartisan, I think is the best easiest way to frame it as being the most radical.

Starting point is 00:05:09 And I agree with you. It's weird to see something like that. But it's not that it is the radical thing, but it's framed as being so outside, you know, just people are so immersed. And so their identities have become so over, you know, wrapped up with the idea of left and right that they see that as just like, it's just, you know, like speaking Chinese, like an American, like something completely foreign. Like it doesn't even make sense to them. And so it's so interesting. But I'm of the mind today that it is a rapidly growing understanding, if not borderline, if not over the majority line. I really do think that people starting to go like, yeah, this just doesn't make sense.

Starting point is 00:05:43 And with people like you out there and others in this field that are just kind of hammering this home and asking the obvious question. you know, I'm of the mind that people are much smarter and much, you know, are better and want good things in the world more than we are told. There's obviously bad people out there. But I think clearly the majority and the point I would always make is the government wouldn't pretend to be fighting for liberty and freedom and democracy and, you know, human rights if they didn't think we wanted that. I think the majority of us do. And so it's interesting that if you just put the real thing out there, I'm of the mind that most people who are just discerning and some, you know, they have their own faults and pitfalls, but they'll see something basic and go, yeah, what Shannon said is right. that's obvious, you know, and it's so much momentum right now. So I'm glad we're connecting to talk about all these things because it's just so much going on and it is, you know,

Starting point is 00:06:27 it's borderline cartoonish today. And that's why it's so hard. And it's not that it's just like objectively four or year to six year, you know, you go back a decade. It was not this wild. Like the nuance versus the blatant lie. I think we're in the blatant lie territory, which is so interesting. So I'd like to start with, you know, I got a bunch of things lined up that we could get into that are kind of courage or things are on my mind. But if I was just going to say right now what's like the most pressing thing in your mind that you think is like the if I said what topic what's the first thing it jumps to your mind let's talk about that so what is that I would say I'm very concerned and I brought these concerns to my audience and to my

Starting point is 00:07:01 platform about 18 months ago during the primary process within the Republican Party you know if we reelect the guy who locked us down in the first place then I can assure you I can promise you that we will be in another lockdown scenario again. And that was the warning when Bobby Kennedy Jr. joined the Trump campaign, I said to the medical freedom movement, the health freedom movement, if he joins this campaign, especially with President Donald Trump, doubling, tripling and quadrupling down on the MRNA technology

Starting point is 00:07:37 that was rolled out within his presidency and the shots, then there is a deal. There was a deal that was made in the back rooms. And I assure you, I promise you, that Bobby Kennedy, Jr., once he gets into this position, is not going to be able to push through any of the agenda items that you think that he's going to push through. And I think that we've seen that now play out in the first four months of this presidency and in the first couple months of RFK's position at HHS. So my concern today is the eminence of perhaps another lockdown scenario. in this case using the chaos, what I think is controlled chaos. I think it is a controlled demolition, LA riots and the spillover riots and other cities

Starting point is 00:08:25 combined with some type of false flag bioterrorist events and with the military involvement using that to precipitate and justify a full-scale lockdown 2.0 that I think would pay in comparison to the original. And that's what keeps me up at night. Will they be able to pull this off? That is the big question. Typically, if we can get word out enough among all of our media platforms and partnerships

Starting point is 00:09:00 and we can get out ahead of it, very often we're able to, you know, quell the plans. Yeah. And because, because they, you know, if people are onto them, then they're not going to lock down in the same way that they do. during COVID.

Starting point is 00:09:16 I'll swing back later, but they'll postpone, which is exactly, you know, usually the best we can hope for at the moment. Right, right, exactly. And so that's the thing. We're not stopping anything. We're not reversing and saying, okay, we are going to, I mean, we can't forget, a genocide was committed. That's the mass murder of civilians by their own governments.

Starting point is 00:09:37 It was committed in 2020 and 21 and even in years beyond. and we can't even get this government or even our own people, RFK Jr. and J. Badacharya, Marty McHerry, to even acknowledge that it happened in the capacity that they hold as government bureaucrats. That's a huge problem. It's a huge problem. It is gaslighting on top of gaslighting. We didn't enjoy being gaslit by the Biden administration,

Starting point is 00:10:08 Anthony Fauci and Deborah Birx. and now we're experiencing this tragically with our own people. So that's been painful. You know, the people who built this movement and proclaimed the truth and lost an enormous amount in order to tell the truth about what's happening. We're now in a moment of discord, which some people don't like, I think it's healthy. I'm not afraid of it. And, you know, I'm just going to push through and do what I've always done, which is try to analyze each event in context of what has happened throughout history and outside of the

Starting point is 00:10:47 two-party political paradigm. And sometimes I know what's going on. I can figure it out. Sometimes it is, it's dark. I don't know what is happening. And, you know, that's the difficulty of being an independent content creator and presenter in the 21st century. Yeah, most definitely. And I think it's funny is actually the first thing that I had lined up were health-related. So we're on the same mindset here, but what's interesting that you note on, and I'm exactly one of my biggest fears in this that we've been talking about for a long time is the intersection of these different agendas. And so first is the lockdown point and how clearly, I sense that you're the insinuating like the lock, like the immigration discussion and that kind of thing that could be used in the

Starting point is 00:11:28 chaos to initiate a lockdown. But as you included there, like a biological element, which is something that I've really been discussing for a while about, you know, where that will come together. And I think we agree that if those things were to come together in one event, it's just like the, it's like the, you know, gold. It's exactly what's the best case scenario for what the government want to achieve. Right. So then you've got the immigration point. You've got the foreign invader point.

Starting point is 00:11:50 You've got the biological point. You know, so it would become this very clear. I mean, we're flirting right now with some kind of martial law lockdown dynamic. Like at the moment, most Republicans don't even want to acknowledge, which is wild, seeing us out if it was Obama or Clinton or anybody of the D, they would have been screaming martial like revolution before it even. started, you know, is it so frustrating to see. But before we get to that, because we can't, and it clearly, as we're discussing, they will intersect. Let's talk about the health side of this.

Starting point is 00:12:14 So before we even get into the overlap of how it may apply to, you know, that discussion we just had there, I did have some health points that I wanted to go over that I thought might be interesting that relate to, like, let's just say for sake of conversation, whether there will just be another like COVID 2.0. I agree with you. I think that's highly unlikely because like we discussed, people are very attuned to that. And so it's unusual that it would just be that redundant, but it's happened before. So I wanted to go over a couple points that I thought were relevant on that regard. And here was about the vaccine schedule. RFK Jr. said a compliant child must take between 69 and 92 vaccines to stay in school to

Starting point is 00:12:49 some state in some states. And not one of them has been safety tested. He said that, which we agree on. And in a pre-licensing placebo controlled trial, by the way, multiple shots they've already now approved also weren't done that way. Despite the claim of no, you know, all placebo is already not true. But it says so the people who are in charge of that. are now gone. But my point was, and yet the vaccine schedule remains seemingly unchanged. You know, make sense of that for me. Like, I wanted your thoughts on that. I mean, I think we're aligned with this mindset. But I just, if you want to comment on that, I think it's interesting. And here was, you know, I said, yeah, I said today in my show, I said with this guy,

Starting point is 00:13:22 Bobby Kennedy Jr. It's, it's one step forward, two sets back. And not even a step forward and three steps back. It's it, you know, and this has been my criticism. The MRI technologies are still on the market. They are still being recommended to children and pregnant women because of the clear-as-mud guidance now coming from the CDC after the fan dance, Kabuki Theater that we enjoyed last week of removing it from the schedule. It is still technically on the schedule. There is a link that you can follow that makes no sense whatsoever. And this is why Wisconsin is completely ignoring the recommendations and continuing to recommend for pregnant women and children, and multiple states will probably fall in that category as well.

Starting point is 00:14:08 It's because the leadership from RFK is wanting. Now, this, you know, and I said the same thing, you know, if you're going to get rid of 17 members of Aethep that are engaging in malpractice and recommending these terrible shots, You might have wanted to get rid of them before they went through the process of re-approving not only the childhood schedule, but also the MRNA. So it is too little too late, right? If you were even going to give him the benefit of the doubt on this and say, well, okay, that's terrible. I wonder about the timing because it just screams PR to me.

Starting point is 00:14:58 Yep. It screams a systematic plan to roll these things out to keep people on the hook, right? You know, watching the dangling carrot in front of them and waiting for something to happen, right? But even if you were to give him the benefit of the doubt, he says in this statement that it's malpractice to recommend childhood vaccines without the proper testing, which I agree with. As such, I would expect these recommendations and mandates to be fully terminated before the start of the 2025-26 school year and suspended until proper testing is achieved. And even if proper testing is achieved and you deem some of them or all of them to be safe, regardless of the testing outcomes, it is imperative that they move forward with recommending that all mandates for all children and all humans, are prohibited by not only the U.S. government because the idea, you know, we forget about the core component of the health freedom movement or the medical freedom movement, and that is informed

Starting point is 00:16:06 consent and bodily autonomy. You know, all of the discussions about the food and the air and the water and fruit loops and maha and all of the things, right, distract us away from the very crucial crucial center point, which is no government at any time for any reason, nor any corporation for any time at ever, for any reason, ever be able to coerce or mandate or force a human being to accept a medical treatment, a medical intervention, or an injection into their body against their will. Curious. You're here.

Starting point is 00:16:45 That discussion never happens. Right. And despite RFK saying most of that before he was in this position to some degree. And then that's the part that I have for the hardest time reconciling. Right. Well, and who is going to replace? You know, interestingly, that was part of a larger statement made by Bobby Kennedy Jr., which really irritated me.

Starting point is 00:17:07 You know, he said yesterday I retired 17 members. It's interesting that you brought this up because this is like the first in my show prep today. And I didn't get to it. Yeah, well, this is great. So I have this all, you know, written out for you. But, you know, he made the statement. He retired 17 members of the advisory committee on immunization practices. And it's the governing body that wields the responsibility of adding new vaccines to the recommended schedule.

Starting point is 00:17:34 And he said, over the coming days, listen to this part of the quote, I will use this platform to announce new members to populate ASIP. none of these individuals, he said, will be ideological anti-vaxxers, which really suck out to me. As a member of the informed consent community, I have been on the vaccine issue for almost my entire career, 11 or 12 years. And that immediately stuck out to me because the word anti-vaxxer is a slur that has been used against people like myself, also the medical freedom community that came out of the lockdowns of 2020 for decades. And so my question to him would be what is an ideological anti-vaxxer, Bobby Kennedy, and why are you using that? Again, why are you using the tools of the left and the tools of pharma and the tools of previous administrations like Fauci and Burks to denigrate those of us who have simply advocated for health freedom? And why is it so horrifying?

Starting point is 00:18:41 Why on earth is it so horrifying if there is a medical doctor or scientist or something? someone with credentials that opposes mass vaccination campaigns to be on this panel. Wouldn't you want multiple voices? Wouldn't it be better if you want true discourse? You want full transparency. You want all ideas to come to the table. Wouldn't you want half of the panel to be in support of mass vaccination campaigns and maybe the other half of qualified scientists to be in opposition?

Starting point is 00:19:10 Then wouldn't you get the best information and come out with the best protocols and recommendations. So this statement in and of itself lies in the face of what he said about trusting the science, getting to the good science, and radical transparency. And so it's what, like again, once I, in fact, you know what, one step forward, five steps backwards is what I would say. Yeah. On, you know, this administration of Bobby Kennedy Jr. And people are very mad at me for saying this. Ryan, it's the same point you're just making. It's your, it's your objective opinion. And the fact that people get mad at you from stating your opinion, is ideological control.

Starting point is 00:19:46 I mean, at the end of that you can, well, I disagree with you, but we can have a conversation about it. No, it's that you just, you just violated our agreement. Like, you know, what we keep seeing is this lens for partisanship.

Starting point is 00:19:55 And as we probably agree on, it's not left or right. It's all partisanship. But right now it's whoever's in the current power. Like the same during COVID, with the left, you could see it. But right now, there's a lens that goes through.

Starting point is 00:20:05 It's either, if it's bad for Trump, I ignore it. If it's good for Trump, I promote it. And it's very clear. And you come out, or same thing with RFK Jr.,

Starting point is 00:20:11 for example, in the Maha movement. If you come out and say, you know, this, what he did was wrong. And people say, you know, you should just ignore it because you're hurting our momentum. And even if that's correct, that's still dishonest. You know what I mean? And so it's wild to me. So let's talk about R of K. I was muted for a second when I raised my hand. I said, but I agree with that. But the point was with getting rid of those people. I do agree with the idea of getting rid of these people. But what's crazy is if you're claiming they committed crimes, which is essentially what you're saying, there's never accountability for these things. They just kicked them to the side.

Starting point is 00:20:40 and I'm glad you brought that up because I wasn't even aware of that secondary part of bringing the back in. It just kills me that he's been the victim of being called an anti-vaxxer for making valid points about it. And yet he goes around and does the same thing. So all that being said, what are your thoughts on that in where he is? Because I am completely open, if not like, sensing. Let me say this first. I'm very adamant about pointing out that what he has been doing around the medical and health field before this point, I will support forever. I don't see everything he's been doing before that has been solid and continual.

Starting point is 00:21:14 And so it really, it was so confounding for me to see this transition around Israel as well, but this right now, because it's like, how do I make sense of that? Was it all a ploy? I find that hard to believe. So I'm very open is where I was going with that about that he could be manipulated, blackmailed, but I'm never going to assume that. And really, it's irrelevant if we're just addressing what's happening. So I want your thoughts on that because it's hard not to see this as like a violation of what we

Starting point is 00:21:37 wanted from him and what we hoped would happen. but it's, you know, it's certainly possible that he's just tapping into the larger establishment. He's a candidate. So give me your thought on and where you place him and all this. I think after observing and reporting on politics for over a decade, I would have to say that you always have to work into the analysis, the potential for blackmail or coercion. Given the amount of surveillance that the advancements in technology, the, corrupt nature of Washington, D.C., both political parties, and just the proximity to power and also

Starting point is 00:22:20 vice, what we have seen with the Epstein Network, Jeffrey Epstein, the relationship between him and multiple power players, both political parties, the work that Whitney Webb has done is extraordinary in her reporting of the Epstein Network, which was really a financial money laundering network more than anything, but was also engaged in the honeypot activities. When we see what has happened with Andrew Tate and the Tate brothers, the diplomatic protection that has been provided to them by President Trump, which blows your mind, right? These guys indicted, I wouldn't say, almost 60 victims, three countries. The indictments range from child sex trafficking to rape to formation of a gang,

Starting point is 00:23:16 money laundering, you name it. Anyone who doesn't believe that people in positions of power, diplomats, bureaucrats, judges, politicians, presidents, military cannot be compromised and that they wouldn't go to sophisticated lengths to compromise these type of people, I think, is naive. I think that that is a completely naive perspective, and it is held by probably most of our colleagues in the left and the right, but I think that needs to change. Whether that's happening with RFK, I don't know, but I would not rule it out. The other part of that is that you're never really privy to that. They don't open the books for us. So speculating on that is

Starting point is 00:24:01 difficult. I will say from my perspective, I look at the fruits. You will know them by their fruit. And so I really don't worry a whole lot about the why. I just look at the discernible policy outcome. What are the statements that they are making? Where are they moving in terms of policy? What are the words on the bill? What are the words on the proclamation or the executive order? And that's really how I try to judge everything because the backstory is, you know, it's a lot of cloak and dagger. You just don't know. I will say that the first moment that I was very concerned about RFK was at the announcement in Boston in 2020. It was the fall of 2003. I traveled to Boston to report on his announcement of his presidency. And it was in that announcement prior to, I was there with,

Starting point is 00:24:59 hundreds of people from the old school, right? So the original gangsters of the medical freedom movement. These are people who have been on the front lines for decades. And there was a gathering at a restaurant of a few hundred. It was a large room. And, you know, the announcement was made. It was essentially, you know, he's going to make his announcement tomorrow. And I don't want, we don't want anyone to be disappointed.

Starting point is 00:25:26 as he's going to move, you know, forward in the next 12 months to gain the presidency. He's going to have to play the political game. So, you know, you guys want to, you might want to prepare yourselves. And so I don't think people were thinking he would never say the word vaccine ever again. I've never heard before. That's really interesting. Like priming everybody to, sorry, keep going. There was a priming.

Starting point is 00:25:47 And then, you know, the next day in that auditorium, it was really, really interesting. Because remember, I mean, you're looking at Bobby Kennedy Jr. There's a body of work, decades long. body of work, of him laying down just bold, bold truth about the childhood schedule, about the flu shots, about politics in general, the military industrial complex, the medical industrial complex. And so to even imagine at that time that he would run for president and then become head of HHS and completely omit from his talking points, from his speeches, from his platforms, the word vaccine would have blown your mind, but he did.

Starting point is 00:26:30 And in that speech, I will never forget, I was in the room and it was electric. You could tell. It was full of medical freedom warriors. And he began to deliver the speech. It was about an hour and a half long. It was unscripted. And you could hear, like you would talk about chronic childhood disease. And he would build up to a crescendo.

Starting point is 00:26:51 And you could just feel people waiting for him to say it. the word vaccine and just explode and applause. And people were waiting for it. It never happens. It never happened. And that was my first like, oh, there might be a deal made there. And then when he, when he made his concession speech and ended his bid for the presidency and all the sudden out of nowhere brought up the name Callie Means is this guy who was, I mean,

Starting point is 00:27:22 I guess the best medical freedom warrior out there, no one ever heard of them. In that concession speech when he announced that he'd be joining with the Trump campaign, again, you saw an omission of COVID, you know what I mean, of the word vaccine. So that was, you know, I reported this all to my audience at the time. You know, after Boston, I reported it. At the time of his alliance with Trump, I said, there's a big problem here. there is a big problem. Cali Means brokered this agreement. It is rumored that Callie and RFK Jr. I don't even think it's a rumor. I think this is actually on the record in reporting met in a sweat tent in Austin, Texas, some kind of metaphysical health retreat where some of the participants get high. I don't think RFK does because he's because he's sober, but I don't know. I think Callie Means admitted to being on some type of I don't know.

Starting point is 00:28:22 Mushroom or something. Health related. This is how these people. I just, I can't make it up. But, you know, somehow that meeting happens.

Starting point is 00:28:31 They come together. Cali means brokers the deal. This guy is a no name, but he has the cell phone of the president of the, you know, the incoming president of the United States and RFK. And then the rumor is that RFK went to Mar-Alogo, spent three days,

Starting point is 00:28:44 I think, in Mar-a-lago brokering this deal. And we don't really know the nature of the deal. But I said to my audience at the time, like this that it's very clear to me the deal is you can't say the word vaccine like and and you can't you know there are certain things that you're not going to be able to touch especially in the campaign process and then after you become you know head of hHS you're going to have shackles there will be there are rules and you will abide by those rules and that is the only way that

Starting point is 00:29:13 you're going to exist in hs and unfortunately i think that it is becoming clear that those rules are going to him from any meaningful, in my opinion. Yeah, I agree. And so for me, I'm a rip the bandaid off fast kind of gal. I'm like, okay, guys, love him. He's great. He did a lot of great things, but we need to move on very quickly and become loyal opposition to this administration and sadly to RFK Jr.

Starting point is 00:29:39 But it's not personal. It's business, right? And we are in the business. I'm in the business of liberty. I have three kids. They need liberty. And I just don't play. Right, right.

Starting point is 00:29:47 Well, and as usual, when you call something like that out, you know, clearly the facts are very obvious. You were correct. I mean, like, I'll let me come back to the point you made about outcome and policy. I'm so glad you brought that up. And that's the point is the outcome we can see right now. He's not doing what was promised for whatever reason. But you calling that out in 2023, 2024, clearly that's at a point. I guess the point is when you call out the truth ahead of the two-party paradigm, everybody hates you.

Starting point is 00:30:14 You know, and you experience this, right? And it's just, and it's so, regardless of whether you flush out as being correct down the line, it's, you know, it's almost like it's, you're that far ahead to the point to where nobody even recognizes that you were saying that when the time comes to pass. And but it's valuable because you did reach people by doing that and you helped people, which is, I argue why we're really doing this, you know, so just hat tip to you for doing that and being ahead of the story. But the outcome point is so interesting because I'm really adamant about this. And it's one of these things again, like the, like I said about the two-party illusion to start,

Starting point is 00:30:43 it seems like this would be just basic common knowledge. but the idea that we shouldn't be engaging with what they say they're going to do, what they say, you know, what they promise, you know, whatever the different things are, the narrative. We should be focusing only on what they've done so far, the precedent, and then what is happening. What is the outcome? And it's not to say that we know that they chose not to. Maybe they got stopped.

Starting point is 00:31:03 Maybe the other side stopped them. But at the end of the day is it's just the government and the outcome. And if we actually only engage with those things, they can't really fool us the way they're doing right now. But it's just people just don't want to get invested. It's the identity politics of the left and the right. the woke of the left and the right that seems to drive everything. So I'm just really glad you made that point because I think it behooves us all to really

Starting point is 00:31:21 stress that. Just focus on what is the outcome. What are they doing? Not what they're saying. I think it's difficult in an era of very sophisticated fear propaganda. Yeah. And very sophisticated sciops because so much of this is dependent on very real and very profound fear. It has an impact on the human.

Starting point is 00:31:45 psyche. And so when you are in, when you're in a foxhole with someone and you are very fearful and you are taught to fear the other party or the other religious group or the other race or the other culture, whatever that conditioning is, then it leads you to imprint on people who are then presented to you as a hero. And that imprint, I think, is psychologically and even spiritually, very hard to break. Yeah. Because, because people then, and I can't tell you how many times I hear, well, I trust so-and-so. Right.

Starting point is 00:32:24 I trust this particular party. I'm like, no, you have failed Politics 101. You never ever lead with the words, I trust. Right. Won't do it, right? Like, that is, that is an indication that you have been propagandized. Absolutely. And instead you are being manipulated by your own fear.

Starting point is 00:32:44 And I would say really quickly, even if they do, even if they can be trusted, like the fact that you're choosing to try, like they could be played, they could be lied to. And you're still playing. You know, I love that you said that. It's so important. And you don't know how many layers are there. Right. And you don't, we don't have all areas of information and all aspects, right? We all have our own experiences and, and the stories that we focus on. And so, you know, navigating this is, is difficult. But I would say, yes. Yeah, the focusing on only the outcome has been absolutely critical for me in my career. And it's been almost like a safety net for me. Like it keeps me on the straight and narrow, keeps me from falling out into different factions or different, you know, because there's a lot of fear out there. And it also helps me to not be so afraid. And, and, you know, it's scary times. It's hard to not be afraid, but you got to battle that every day.

Starting point is 00:33:41 Well, and I agree. And it's not hyperbolic to say that. I mean, there's a lot of very, very intent, whether it's just warfare or dramatic changes and what we always thought were like foundational ideas. Like there's a lot of upheaval right now. And it's very, you know, it's, it's, I think it's important that people in our position don't like,

Starting point is 00:33:56 like I'm sure I'll make some comments of people as we go through some tabs today, but people that are being hyperbolic and fear mongering about World War III or revolution, you know, when those things are very real and possible, I wouldn't ever say that you shouldn't be concerned, but to just name these things without ever really, you know, there's a, there's like a fear factory in the, independent media, mainstream alternative media right now that just just grinds away at keeping you on the edge of your seat like it's a reality TV show, you know, and it's very, very prominent.

Starting point is 00:34:21 And we'll get to that in a second. But you brought up Epstein. So I wanted to touch on this, which I thought was interesting so we can kind of come at two different things. We're talking about the two-party paradigm, you know, and the false binary as I see it. And this Epstein overlap point is pretty interesting. So let's talk about both, right? So Elon Musk, we've all, everybody saw whether it was theater and feel free to comment on that

Starting point is 00:34:40 because I'm very skeptical about whatever just happened with all that. but they had this little tiff, you know, and it was very strange. But I'm of the mind that a lot of them in that inner circle really don't like each other, but that's not what it's about, right? There's a larger non-binary kind of agenda in this government. But he did say that Trump was on the Epstein list, which I think, frankly, is probably the case with all the evidence we have, but I can't say I know for sure. But with what's going on with the administration and like Cash and Bongino that seems,

Starting point is 00:35:03 I mean, even their own team seems to hate them right now. They're all ridiculous. And, you know, it's just so clear that there's manipulation. Yeah. Do you want to comment on that real quick before I go further? Feel free because it's interesting. No, no, go ahead. You can, like, you finish and then I'll tell you what it's hilarious.

Starting point is 00:35:16 I just, I just think that whole thing with the two of them is just, it's comical. It's hard to watch. It's particularly, right, right. But Elon says, you know, I regret some of my posts about President Trump last week. They went too far is what he says. You know, so they're trying to patch it up, it seems. And I think it's clearly being like drawn together because of like the L.A. situation.

Starting point is 00:35:33 Now they're like, high five, we're on the same team again. That's what I'm sensing. And Candace says, what specifically do you regret? Do you regret telling the lie that Trump is in the Epstein files? Or do you regret telling the truth that isn't the Epstein? file. So, you know, wherever you want to take that, the Epstein point, I think is interesting. But I just think all of that is hard. He's interesting. Go ahead. I mean, oh, gosh, like this thread with Trump and Epstein, Trump and the Tates, Trump and his proximity to predators and sexual abusers,

Starting point is 00:36:05 Trump and his statements, Trump and his multiple wives, Trump in his creepiness, Trump, you know, groping young, you know, Miss America pageant contenders. I mean, Trump grabbing the you know what in his discussion with Billy Bush, Trump making disgusting comments about Megan Kelly. Like he has been a degenerate since day one. He has always been demeaning. and likely, in my opinion, abusive of women. There are multiple cases that he's been, you know, or multiple accusations of various sorts of, you know, sexual advances or even abusive behavior from women. One thing really quickly is to say these things is objective reality. Like, you can still argue that he is saving the country or that you think he's a good guy or maybe he's changed

Starting point is 00:37:01 or half of those things are misrepresented. The point, though, is to are, to clearly point out that there is a track record. You can read his books, but yet people will call that Trump derangement syndrome because the partisan side ignores things that are uncomfortable to what they want to achieve. So I just want to point that out because this is a nonpartisan conversation. And I argue both of us would make just as many statements about how ridiculous Biden is. But I just, it's funny. They circle the wagons around the person they like.

Starting point is 00:37:25 Please continue. Well, yeah, they snucked that out. They essentially erased in the course of the first four years of the Trump presidency. they were able to, through propaganda, erase his history. Now, I will say you want to go back like almost 10 years. You know, when he came down the esdiculator, I was just on the radio at that time. And I did a deep dive into Donald Trump and found all of this, right? I mean, it's not a question.

Starting point is 00:37:54 And most concerning to me, which I brought to my audience, I'll never forget it. And this is actually what got me originally blackballed. I was still kind of a conservative. Then I was on conservative radio and it was my initial, I rejected Donald Trump from the very first day, well, from my very first round of research and really never changed my tune throughout the past decade. And it was the naming of Donald Trump on the Lolita Express. It was Jeffrey Epstein's private jet, nice ed guys. And then there were also many reports. I mean, Donald Trump was not just an associate with Jeffrey Epstein.

Starting point is 00:38:32 Donald Trump, according to Jeffrey Epstein, and about, you know, hours and hours, maybe dozens of hours of audio recording that were done recently by an independent reporter. I forget what his name is, but he was able to get Jeffrey Epstein prior to him suiciding himself in federal prison. They were not associates. They were like best friends. They went out on dates with each other. I've seen new very intimate details of Donald Trump's life. It was a well established fact, fact that these guys were out on the town. They were with very, very young women.

Starting point is 00:39:11 And this was just an established fact. And I said to my audience at the time, this is a problem. And we just got off years of Sean Hannity raging about Lolita Express and Hillary Clinton and all of Jeff, you know, and they used that. They wielded that as a political weapon to go after Hillary Clinton and the Clinton administration. But then, you know, the moment Trump came onto the scene, they did not want to talk about the fact that not only was Bill Clinton on the list on the log, but Donald Trump was also on the log as well multiple times. I'm like, this is, you know, they can drag this up. They can bring this up again.

Starting point is 00:39:51 And it was just so interesting that Elon brought it up, you know, he said, and I wouldn't be surprised at all. I would not be, nothing would surprise me. These people in these positions of power are, in my opinion, in order to even get there, you have to be some version of a narcissistic sociopath. You know, they're just, they don't think like you and me. They aren't like you and me. Most of us would never go into politics because it would require you to sacrifice your soul in order to do so. But, you know, that these power structures attract people who want power and they are quite comfortable with. cracking as many eggs as necessary in order to get to power.

Starting point is 00:40:31 So again, why people can't understand this, I don't understand, but it's the fear campaigns and the propaganda. And then, I mean, to come full circle, he has been covering up for and protecting the Tate brothers. And so has been conservative media. And so that was really the final nail in the coffin for me. I'm like, this guy in real time has sent a diplomatic, special envoy to the president, Richard Grinnell, to Munich, to strong-arm Romanian officials on behalf of the Tate brothers,

Starting point is 00:41:06 so that they could hop on a private jet, fly back to the United States of America, be met on the tarmac by none other than Roger Stone, who reportedly had cigars for them at the time, and then move in. I mean, I think they spent two weeks in Florida, and then Ron DeSantis had his way with them, and chased them out, which was glorious to watch. So President Trump is notorious for protecting pimps and pedophiles and rapists and criminals. And so I don't know what to tell people. I mean, there's so much there. It takes a special amount of gaslighting for people to just ignore the facts.

Starting point is 00:41:48 But again, the partisan nature of politics today really inhibits people. from seeing it, which is a shame. Yeah. Yeah, they blatantly ignore facts on both sides of the paradigm, you know, but the, the, the tape thing is so interesting because, I mean, I can point to many people. I think, what is it, murder by crayons or, or milk bar TV, you know, and milk bar TV as well. They've been breaking this stuff down for, I mean, since the moment, it was really a major

Starting point is 00:42:15 focal point. And just, I mean, this is what's so wild to me. And this is what we're kind of addressing in a larger sense is, you know, these aren't like manipulative videos. They're, they're simply a compilation of what they themselves are claiming they've done, evidence of showing what they have done, you know, like, like it's provable, undeniable documentation of like, you know, or literal things that they say on Tucker, on Candace Owens,

Starting point is 00:42:36 that they just literally didn't do. Or that's the crazy part to me is not only, you know, the Trump aspect, but how you get these commentators who just give them a platform who are supposed to be journalists that are just lying about what they're saying. You are supposed to be Christian conservatives. Right. These are Christ is king.

Starting point is 00:42:52 Like, even if you erased all of the charges, which are horrifying of the Tate brothers. Even if you raise the charges, they are self-admitted pimps and pornographers. Right. And good. Right. I mean, so that, you know,

Starting point is 00:43:11 Candice Owens will scream Christ as King at people. I don't know. Anytime she's backed in a corner, yet multiple times throughout the past 18 to 24 months, she has lied for the Tate brothers. She has platformed the Tate Brothers. She has deceived her audience about the nature of the crimes, the, you know, the severity of the crimes. And she has done that as recently as just a couple months ago.

Starting point is 00:43:42 Grab your mind around that. It's confusing to me because there's, I mean, I, obviously she's very partisan, but there's plenty of stuff that she's doing in plenty of categories that I think is pretty solid. So it's just going like, what is the point? Why would you do that? Why would you knowingly, like, she's not stupid. She knows that there's video evidence of exactly what they're claiming they're not doing. Why? You know, it's just, that's the same point is I'm not going to assume.

Starting point is 00:44:05 I'm not going to guess. It could be any number of the things we discussed around RFK. You know, there's plenty of movable factors that could make people act against their interest. We could even go in a crazy direction as Catherine Austin Fitz would discuss around like neuroweapons and things that get you to like literally act against your own attention. I don't know. But it's just so frustrating because you're right. It is very clear. and it's interesting you bring it up in this context because, you know,

Starting point is 00:44:27 we could point back to someone like Charlie Manson and all the evidence that suggests he was just an Epstein of his time, you know, or maybe this aspect. Interesting. Oh, yeah. Well, it's a whole thing, it's whole rabbit hole. It's worth looking into. Like the overlap of the Hollywood scene, even the whole story we know about with, you know,

Starting point is 00:44:41 with, uh, uh, uh, uh, Sharon Tate, interestingly enough. I was making sure, like making a mistake there. Oh, yeah, right, right. The tape. I need connection. I don't know. Yeah, you don't know, actually. But, you know, the whole story is interesting.

Starting point is 00:44:53 and there's a lot of overlapping alignment there. And I think that's what it was. I think he was just, you know, he had this harm of girls. He was connected to these, you know, it's a whole story. But wondering whether or not the Tate aspect is just another part of that today. It's hard to say. It's worth looking into. But the point is about the cover up from the highest levels of power and what that really

Starting point is 00:45:09 shows you about the power, you know, and it's nonpartisan. It goes both ways. You know, it's so interesting. But back to the Elon point that you brought up about Epstein, because that's the back on the tweet, you know, it's so, it's either way, it shows you what a lot of of us have been trying to point out, right? That they're just being dishonest with you. So if your point is that Elon, whoever out there, Candace is the point she's making there, if your point is that Elon is lying about this because he's mad at Trump, well, then they're being childish and

Starting point is 00:45:35 petty and that's what they are. Or if your point is they're finally telling you the truth, and they've been lying to you the whole time for their political agenda. No matter which way you look at it, it shows you the kind of thing that we're highlighting is they will lie to you about anything to achieve their ends, left and right. I think that's important. Absolutely. And didn't Elon, didn't Elon Musk's brother, or someone was in, Elon was involved with the Tate's through one of his close relatives as well. So Elon has a history with the Tates, I believe. I don't know, maybe it was up.

Starting point is 00:46:07 No, no, maybe it was up. I can't remember. I'm not going to say it because I can't remember. Yeah. I don't know the interconnection between on the rest, but my point is that there are the levels of power connected to those people is just, it doesn't make much sense. I mean, they're wealthy, but, you know, Because it out it's fake.

Starting point is 00:46:22 I mean, the two dads fighting. Everyone's head exploded. I mean, con ink and bizarokan did not know what to do with themselves for multiple days. Because you have two idols, right? Two political idols right here. And so I'm not surprised. It had to have been, there had to have been some kind of agenda for that. I don't know what it was.

Starting point is 00:46:41 But it was very bizarre, very weird. And, you know, Elon's weird too. Like with the bobbing and weaving. It's just all so weird. somebody threw out a really interesting possibility just for the sake of conversation because it clearly is not that far effect with what's going on the world.

Starting point is 00:46:57 But people are saying, always on drugs, which is probably the most like Occam's razor. It's a simple that he's just taking ketamine, right? But somebody was like, you know, weird images of him like looking up and with his eyes, it's really weird, right? And they said, what if he already has Nerling?

Starting point is 00:47:10 And he's literally like going through grok and like every, you know, mass considering possibility. You know, it's like, that's, I don't think, that's not where I would assume, but that's... Nothing would surprise me. That's my other, this is my other. other rule about conspiracy theories, right? There are lots of them out there and like some of them are wild and I try not to go down the rabbit hole too often because you'll stick your head in the

Starting point is 00:47:32 oven. Right? But nothing would surprise me. There is nothing, there is no level of depravity or weirdness or evil that would surprise me at this point with these leaders. Yeah. I, I, I think the point is like my general point saying question everything, but the extra part of it is while considering all possibilities. You know, like you're saying, nothing is these these things like what we just said there is in a very small step away from being exactly what would make sense. You know, even right now, the idea that he might have already done it. You know, it's like, and I'm not even saying that's what I think. It's just an interesting time to consider how that wild statement is like, you know, it's all very possible. They're doing all this right now.

Starting point is 00:48:17 You know, some distro. They say they can do it. Yeah. I mean, they're all excited about it. They want us to, you know, they want a nanobot us and interface us with computers and read our minds. You've all Harari. I mean, screw you. I don't want that.

Starting point is 00:48:32 But I mean, they're all very excited about this. And, you know, they're telling us that they can do it. And they're telling us they're going to cure cancer and, and, you know, pinpoint pandemics before they even start. Well, how would you do that? Well, it's by, you know, biological data collection. Surveillance. Yeah, real time. You know, that's why I see.

Starting point is 00:48:50 I mean, that's terrifying, too. That keeps me up at night a little bit, you know. Yeah. That's my big thing. The nanotech overlap, like the thing that scares me, like the idea of what, like, how do you even fight something like that? You know, and that's, and I've done long. Jesus. I've done that.

Starting point is 00:49:06 I believe in Jesus. Yeah, I mean, that's where it kind of takes you. It's like, this is like, it's might as well be some, you know, it's just so outside of their own possibility and like the way we see the world, but it's definitely coming in this direction. But before, so what's interesting is, let's talk about that and where it goes, AI Palantir. But before that, let's talk about what seems to be, and even what we're just kind of highlighting about, like, the fight. One of the many things that people consider of why, what are they trying to pull your attention away from? Well, the Palantir thing is almost embarrassingly obvious. And you get the Joneses of the world.

Starting point is 00:49:37 And people like doing this like tap dance. Like, look over here or like Palantir is a small company and it's left that are pushing it. It's like, wow. Like it shows you how desperate it is to try to not, you know, people do, they don't want people looking at this from like a, you know, the hierarchy enslaving you, they, like the power structure, in my opinion, because it's a nonpartisan agenda to roll all this out. But my point would be that there's a lot of reasons they're trying to drive us there or distract us from it. So let's talk about the L.A. Overlap, which already is being pushed to use Palantier,

Starting point is 00:50:07 or they already are, in fact, for surveillance, for immigrants. So it all kind of comes together. But I feel like we should address this topic today because it's such an interesting kind of inflection point that's being used. and there's a lot of different agendas that crossed through it. So I thought we could start with this clip that I do think was pretty interesting. This is Sam Tripoli on Joe Rogan in 2023, basically laying out the process, basically moving away from the woke ideology,

Starting point is 00:50:32 rolling into immigration and then having the riots and stuff take place today. Now, it's not that hard to see that coming. I mean, I feel like myself, I made a similar point about, you know, that woke, as I've said even recently with USAID, it's just, I don't believe that any of these people are, you know, from the highest levels of power are really caring about whether you use pronouns. It's about an agenda. Some people absorbed it,

Starting point is 00:50:53 but really it's a shoe in the door for the regime change kind of a thing. That's how I see the larger point anyway. Or compliance test or what are you willing to go along with? I think that they love to get us to go along with the most absurd things because that is evidence of complete submission. When we turn our brains off and we say, yes, two plus two does equal five, that's when they're like, okay, we got them. they're ready to be completely.

Starting point is 00:51:19 Yeah, exactly. I mean, it's very clear that, you know, there's any number of different things that these things can achieve and, you know, just, you know, awesome. One of them just getting people to check out because it's just too much. And so that's the best case scenario. Ethan McDonald's, go to Walmart, just sit back and not care about what's going on. You know, that's what they want.

Starting point is 00:51:35 But so this, this clip is interesting. So somebody did a juxtaposition of the two things. Sam shared it of just him saying this. And this one, I think, is better because it shows the 2025 and happening. And so this came in 2020, again laying this out, basically Mel Kay, who he discussed, you know Mel Kay, right? She's, you know what I wanted.

Starting point is 00:51:52 She does good work. And so her talking to him about this, and I just think the timing is interesting. We're in the Bolshevik war right now, bro. And right now what's coming up is the, all the pride stuff is going to be, okay, so I had this woman come on my podcast. Her name's Mel Kay.

Starting point is 00:52:06 She goes, I've been talked to some people in the intelligence, and they go, this gay pride stuff is going away. And the next thing you're going to see, are immigration riots. This is going to be right around the next election. So hand of God, we do this episode. Next day, Starbucks is like, we're banning all the pride stuff. And now you start seeing these little, they're putting little breadcrumbs out, man. Little breadcrumbs. Oh, I saw this one thing in Chicago. Oh, yeah. Illegal immigrants are upset about where they're staying. And these illegal immigrants who speak no English are holding up perfectly written English signs saying we're tired of how we're being

Starting point is 00:52:44 And now you're starting to see this over and over again. Eric, so everyone's always like when all these Republican governors are like sending these immigrants all over the country. And it's like, yeah, you're showing those Democrats. Bro, they're moving assets. I know it sounds crazy, but that is 100 what is percent well. What do you mean they're moving assets? What do you mean? Dude, these guys coming into the country, bro?

Starting point is 00:53:07 Have you seen them? A lot of them are Chinese and a lot of them are military-aged people. And I'm telling you, they're moving. I'm telling you they're moving, and this is what's going to be right around 2024 election, immigration riots, people going nuts. And listen to this, and you'll start seeing all the little bread crumbs. I'm telling you, that's what they want you to think. You're buying it. They're moving assets, bro.

Starting point is 00:53:31 They're moving assets. What do you mean? Like military people? Dude, study the Bolshevik war. It is happening in real time. 100%. But I just wanted to get that out to everybody because I'm trying to warn people. This is what's next.

Starting point is 00:53:45 This guy right here, I forget his name now. He's an actor. You know, he's always the naysayer. He's always like, I don't know about that. Like this guy. I swear, they play role. They do. They have rules.

Starting point is 00:53:55 They play them. Before we get into all of it, what's interesting to me is so basically, I don't necessarily agree with everything he laid out there. Like, I think what's clear, like the, I should, to be, to clarify, like, the idea of the military aid and Chinese, like, all of that is real to some degree. Like that, but I don't know whether it is the point that, like, I think it's a non-partisan effort to drive us in this direction. And so I think it's very,

Starting point is 00:54:18 it behooves us to not fall into like the partisan angles of it. They get you thinking the Democrats are doing this to the Republicans. Because, and let's talk about this. I don't want to lurch into all my opinions first, but it's very interesting to see that the narratives just don't make any sense right now about why that they would be doing this. But what is interesting is the, the very clear timing of moving away from the woke direction and not in everywhere, but in like the mainstream push.

Starting point is 00:54:42 then having this come to pass. And it does very clearly work for where this agenda is going. Like one step, you know, one, two, three kind of threw Biden into Trump, probably Trump into Biden back to Trump. You know, and so what, give me your thoughts on that and then what's going on in L.A. and everything. Yeah. Well, I mean, for me, my knee jerk is clearly staged. Oh, yeah. Clearly. And, you know, for me, it was very reminiscent, to be honest, of the J6 rallies in Washington, D.C. protest, what they believe was a stolen election. So you take a group of people who are good, normal, pretty much law-abiding American citizens, and you rile them up about something and you press the emotional buttons and the fear buttons. And they all congregate in Washington, D.C., Palantir is there. scooping up all their facial recognition data. You place a couple very strategically placed agent provocateurs.

Starting point is 00:55:45 People like Q the Shaman, if you remember, the guy with the weird head and the whatever, ushering everyone into the Capitol. You had the Ray Epps character that was rattling everyone up. And so you can really move, you can heard a crowd into a dangerous situation. and a potentially violent situation by just using a few strategically placed change agents or or intelligence agents. And when you look at what is happening in L.A., the imagery, the picture of the flag, it's just all too perfect. To me, it seems like a theater production. And so, you know, the good, and that's, that is the front facing.

Starting point is 00:56:30 That's the narrative. The narrative is to do what? Well, to build a control grid, right? to justify, you mean, you combine violence in cities across America or perceived violence in cities across America with a potential bio terror attack that they have been talking about and also simulating in the past couple months on July 4th, for example, which is the date of the attack that they talk about that, 2025, with an economic meltdown or crisis. And you put all of those things together.

Starting point is 00:57:05 You have a Tinder box. And then this is the perfect opportunity for them to solve a lot of problems for government, right? The biggest being the, you know, 30-some trillion dollar debt and deficit and the fact that the currency is about to collapse and they're going to run out of money, right? So they're in this process. I mean, all of this, I think everything always comes back to money. It's the economy stupid is what Bill Clinton said. And I think a lot of times these distraction campaigns are designed to, solidify their power and their control base, which will solidify the money or whatever

Starting point is 00:57:39 transition we're making into a new global currency or a digital currency or a digital control grid, but also then give the rationale for full-scale military suppression or a military police state. Now, I say that. That's like kind of the worst case scenario. I, you know, I had nightmares about a military police state during the lockdowns of COVID-19. I think all of us we're like, where is this going to go? Are they going to roll tanks down the street, rip us from our homes, put us in a gurney and shove a needle in our arm? Is that where this is going to go?

Starting point is 00:58:09 What I learned through COVID is that actually achieving this agenda is quite difficult, right? 365 million Americans, all in various, you know, locations of the country, it's very difficult for them to, and even with the most sophisticated propaganda operation I ever saw, and that was during COVID, right? They were not able to fully lock us down. They wanted to, they wanted vaccine mandates so badly for every American. And they tried, but they weren't able to actually achieve that. They always need some level of compliance from the population. We're always going to receive some level of compliance.

Starting point is 00:58:49 But if there is a loud enough minority and a well-connected enough minority, we have the ability to very easily put them down. right they can try these things and what i love about the recent siops the crazier they get the more people are like this is like a freaking cartoon right this is ridiculous this is like this is like the roadrunner and the tasmanian devil wrestling off a cliff like that's the way i look at these the democrats and republicans and and elon and trump like it's not it's almost and not to say that violence in l.a is is laughable it's not yeah there's definitely violence there's There's definitely, there's also real people protesting.

Starting point is 00:59:29 You know, it's, it all happened. And quite frankly, a lot of those real people are probably nice people who just care about immigrants. I mean, like. Or more so care about the fact that ICE is verifiably breaking the law. And that's not to say that immigrants that are illegally here shouldn't be deported. Like these things can exist in the same conversation. Right. Right.

Starting point is 00:59:46 Like you could. We could solve so many, so many problems in this country actually quite easily. And I mentioned this on my show yesterday. They're like, oh, well, what would you do, Shannon? All the crime. And listen, I'm like, I appeal. interestingly enough to a more, I guess, Christian conservative kind of audience. And, you know, we have been propagandized with the scary illegals and the gang cartels and the, I mean,

Starting point is 01:00:10 it is relentless. And those are big problems, right? It's not okay that we are importing terror cells, terrorists, terror groups, you know, cartels. That's not okay at all. But, you know, people are like, well, what would you do, Shannon? And like, everything's going to, you're going to have crime in your neighborhood. I hope the terrorist comes to your house. I'll get that sometimes. Right. And I'm like, you know what?

Starting point is 01:00:34 It's actually quite simple. Like you turn off the money. You turn off the money. You give them 30 days and you say, hey, you know what? We'll pay your plane ticket home. And that's it. Everyone with most people would self-deport because the reality is that most immigrants stay here because they get free school, free health, free rent, all of the benefits from the federal

Starting point is 01:00:55 and state governments through organizations like Catholic charities and non-governmental organizations and all of these these orgs tethered to the government. And so if you just cut the money off, oh, that would also have the added benefit of, you know, slashing our budget in the federal government, right? If we're really concerned with, you know, curbing spending. I mean, so all of these things could be done. They aren't being done because once again, they have succeeded in dividing this country so that we can't have conversations where a debt. Democrat or a liberal would say, well, I'm worried about immigrants. And you could say, okay, well, we've got to figure out something here because I'm sure you also have a fence around your house,

Starting point is 01:01:33 a door to your house and curtains on your window. And I'm sure you wouldn't want some illegal coming in and camping out on your couch and getting in your fridge and taking your stuff. Like there's got to be some kind of private property here, you know, where we don't just let them pour in and get, I mean, come on. That's insane. It comes back to the manufactured nature of this where what you're alluding to there is that both sides are benefiting from the ongoing problem. And so it's like there's narratives about what needs to happen vice for like that very clear moment in, I think it was Biden's administration or was it, yeah, it was and where the Texas border became that big focal point, right, with those things in the water with the razor blades,

Starting point is 01:02:12 whatever weirdness that was, which is crazy. But then prominent conservative report were like, okay, here's this border with the, with the, they're all up at the gate and it's locked and they drove down to the next stop and the gate was swinging open in the way. And you're going like, so they can't just walk down. Like, we're being played, guys. That's not the thing is not illegal immigration, but they're creating these buzz stories to manipulate people, you know.

Starting point is 01:02:34 And so the crazy thing is clearly there's a lot of factors involved with the immigration point. Like, I think obviously the main point is if someone is here illegally, that's breaking the law. They should be dealt with. That's the bottom line is there's already laws to deal with this stuff. That's why we'll have to manufacture all these narratives to be like, oh, it's because they did this, therefore we can't do it that way. There's never an argument for me that I'll agree with that's we can't follow the, you know, we can't, here's why the Constitution doesn't apply right now.

Starting point is 01:03:00 The Republicans made the same point during COVID and said there's no asterisk that says, except when there's a pathogen. It's the same point. You know, you've got to follow what's real. But the point is that clearly there's other acts of factors like U.S. foreign policy that's literally using your tax dollars to destroy entire civilizations that then people flee and then seek for some. And what's crazy to me is you got the Republican side of this or both sides, really, still spitting this lie that it's like, they're only kind of.

Starting point is 01:03:24 coming here for a better life and they want to be here because freedom and democracy. And then when they actually try to do that in many cases, there are people right now in this country that are going through that process legally, a citizenship through legal channels, you know, but yes, there's also criminals. But it's just a crazy dynamic where it's being, you know, they want one side to think that it is about only criminals. They want the other side to think that they're only arresting innocent people, whether illegal or not should be here. Most people in the middle who are nonpartisan are aware of the fact, they shouldn't say they're all nonpartisan, but aware of the fact that there's nuance to it.

Starting point is 01:03:58 You know, that they're, and the point being that the government is using both those narratives to achieve a lot of different ends. And at least that's how I see it. Yeah. Well, and I remember, you know, I advocated for my audience and remember the summer of rage in 2020 when like we were all locked down, but they could go and burn cities and like protest for BLM. Remember all that. So, um, and, you know, we, I remember just being like the, the fear was really setting in.

Starting point is 01:04:23 And, you know, we were thinking like, this is going to start. bread and it's going to come, you know, to every city in America and, you know, I was very concerned with what they were going to do in order to quell that. And, you know, I looked out my window and I said to my audience at one point, I'm like, listen, like 99% of the United States of America is peaceful and quiet and people go to bed at night and they tuck their kids in and they are safe, you know, things are okay. These are moments. These are highly public. moments in cities that are designed to make you think that the government needs to take some type of extraordinary action in order to take care of it. No, these are highly isolated

Starting point is 01:05:08 and we just need to like keep calm, carry on and cling to our constitution. And don't have you bastards get away with using our fear. 100%. And I'll say too that even if it was the extreme situation that you think they're framing it as, the answer is still not to violate the Constitution. You know, that's what's so insane is the only guideline we have. And I would even argue that, I mean, clearly the government for a long time, both sides of it does not care about the Constitution, but they know that we do. And so they have to constantly give lip service to pretending to care about it. And that illusion is being flirted with right now to being brought, removed, right? Like right now. But what's crazy is they are, they are bound by it to some degree,

Starting point is 01:05:47 even if it's just because they need us to think that. So we, that's like the last tendril of hope. we have in a state of society, different conversation, if that's what we want to live in. My mind is we could live in a world without government, but since we're stuck here, the Constitution is important, you know? So these are the conversations we need to have about this stuff because there's people out there that are interested, that would otherwise be interested in hearing a nuanced argument, but they just don't know where to find it right now because they're, you know, algorithmically jammed into the partisan, you know, commentators out there.

Starting point is 01:06:19 Yeah. I think there's a total bottleneck there for sure. Absolutely. So I wanted to go to a couple of the points I thought were interesting. And this is, so basically, we've seen, so the development of this is being, like we both seem to agree that this is being used, you know, whether or not it's exactly the way it looks to you or that the reality is that it is still being used to achieve these ends. And so the point we're making is that the reality of them, like, for example, deploying the military, which I don't know if you, the National Guard, the military, at this point, as far as I can tell, it is a direct and provable violation of the Pussy, The Comitatis Act. And that's not just because they're deployed. But now what I found really interesting is where I had pulled up right here. Where was that? I'm just jumping ahead a little bit.

Starting point is 01:07:02 Okay, here we are. So this is interesting because the airman, it's a lawyer. He basically just came out. And this is directly citing from US. This is from ICE posting this. So ICE confirms they are using California National Guard troops deputized over there, over the objection of Gavin Newsom, which I think is a monster, to support ICE operations. And so my point is simple.

Starting point is 01:07:21 So they are. enforcing the law as well as we all already knew just some pretending otherwise therefore based on the exactly the posse comitatis act they're they and because interestingly enough they were deployed under federal authority because you didn't have didn't want to which is a whole state's rights discussion but trump is it anyway and so the point is this is a textbook example of a violation of the posse comitatis act and this is not debatable guys this is all very very clear but yet it'll still be ignored and so you can touch on that if you'd like my point is the broader idea that there's a lot that's being done through this that is unconstitutional, that is illegal. And the only argument you're getting

Starting point is 01:07:55 is that it's about a Mexican invasion, which interestingly then gives them the excuse to argue it is an insurrection or a rebellion, which then rationalizes why this wouldn't matter anymore. And I'll touch on that next. But what are your thoughts on that? Yeah, I think that there are probably multiple rationales for this being a violation of the Constitution or an overreach of executive authority by the president and gosh, I wish that we could have those kind of conversations in the country. I think even outside of the Constitution, I think it's a terrifying expansion of power. And I think that that coupled with the military parade, the movement of all the tanks and all of the, I mean, it's just, it's just frightening.

Starting point is 01:08:43 I think it frightens people and it should frighten people and I hope that it frightens people. And, yeah, I mean, in some ways, you know, listen, the Constitution is the law of the land. It is our governing document, right? We are absolutely engaging, at least politically, in a post-constitutional moment. Okay. There is no way, either political party or this president or Elon Musk. Musk, the co-president, our co-dad in government, okay, is, are operating within the boundaries of the Constitution. The coup de Doge, which I covered on my show extensively, involved Elon

Starting point is 01:09:30 Musk walking in with technologists and basically siphoning off and sucking up trillions of dollars, potentially, in the most valuable data on the face of the planet and doing whatever they want with it. Okay. So handing it to Peter Thiel over at Palantir. I mean, we are looking at so many aspects of a rogue cartel government. And this is why I really appreciate the work of Catherine Austin Fitz and Whitney Webb. I think that Catherine nails it. I think we are dealing with criminal enterprises here, a criminal cartel. I think that Biden is part of the criminal cartel. I think that Trump is part of the cartel. I think most of the front-facing people that we see are actors in the, in a sense. They don't really wield the power, but they do play a role. I think they know what

Starting point is 01:10:29 their role is. I would even say that Elon Musk, you know, and Catherine would call him an operation, not a man, right? You don't run seven massive corporations, tweet all day and play video games all day while having junkets in the Oval Office and with, you know, Trump's cabinet, if you don't have a team of people pushing that messaging out. Right. So there's a point to the Elon. There's a point to the Trump. And it's criminal in nature.

Starting point is 01:11:01 So grappling with that as an American is difficult. But the answer, though, is, and you mentioned something earlier, we should probably wrap it up pretty soon. I don't want to, I think I'm, yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm, coming up against the meeting. Absolutely. You mentioned, you know, the thing that they don't want to do is to have people, like, tune out or not, you know, not play ball or be involved.

Starting point is 01:11:25 There is a part of that, though, that I think is incredibly powerful in, if we just turned off the Washington, the Washington, D.C. show, and we retreated back into federalism or localism, even more important than federalism would be localism, right? The municipality, local governments, your town, your village, your family, your community, your civics organizations, right? And basically just said to Washington, D.C., I mean, you have no jurisdiction here. So you can play your little games and you can try to, you know, roll in your military.

Starting point is 01:12:04 Like, try to suppress the United States of America with your military. Like, I mean, you can't do it. There's no way. There's just absolutely no way. And then when you see, then when you begin to see the actions of governors like Ron DeSantis, making gold and silver legal tender and beginning the process of establishing a state sovereign bank, and then, you know, starting the process of real real estate reform, tax reform, where you don't pay taxes on real estate anymore because that's also a violation of constitutional principles.

Starting point is 01:12:35 And then you see that other governors like Governor Abbott in Texas is mimicking this. And you begin to see the states emancipate government. And the more we emancipate from the federal government, the money part is really important because when you are able to have a sovereign bank, which is also constitutional, right? And I think North Dakota has had a sovereign bank

Starting point is 01:13:02 since 2019 or 1919 or something, whatever, like 100 years. Then you realize that, But the only tether that the federal government has on us is through the money, the bennies. It's all the money, the largest coming. So we send all of our money to Washington, D.C. They launder it. They steal it. They hand it out to their people, right?

Starting point is 01:13:26 They use it to enrich their partners. And then they give us like some crumbs. Right. To back to the states. That's what we get, right? When we realize that we don't have to go through that money laundering process, like they don't have anything if we don't send it to them. And then you have, you know, people operating at the state level in self-preservation.

Starting point is 01:13:46 Because at the end of the day, I think people still want to survive. I mean, we want to, I don't know, like, like fall in love and get married and have children and pursue happiness. And build a house, plants a garden, have brand. Like none of that will ever change. That's the human experience. That's 5,000 years of human history. That's never going to change. There's always going to be a con.

Starting point is 01:14:10 they're always going to be relationships. The question is, are we going to turn off their ridiculous show? Right. Start getting to the work of building up, you know, our own infrastructure from the bottom up. Absolutely. That's part of all that, of all of this. And, you know, the other part, too, is I think it is much, they like to project, project strength. Their technology, their tanks and their guns and, right?

Starting point is 01:14:36 They want to, they want us disillusioned. they want us depressed, apathetic, terrified, and they do that through that projection of strength. I don't think they're nearly as strong as we think they are. I agree. And I don't think they know what to do if we really, enough of us, not even a majority, just a loud minority, stand up and say, you know what, we're just not buying this anymore. You're done. I agree.

Starting point is 01:15:01 I really do. I mean, I think that's such a, you know, the problem is so many people would dismiss that as just impossible, not, you know, without even giving it the real, thought that it deserves and understand that in any circumstance, like taking a local point with police and engaging with a crowd, they have a number in their mind. Maybe not the individual people, but the people who are in charge, they know we can't take more than this number. And this is a very important point to think about. And if we do, if we notice that's happening, we strategically pull back. And that's why you see those moves where they just let things continue to happen. The government knows that. Whether it's continuity of government, you know, large term play,

Starting point is 01:15:34 they know if this many people in this country resist, we can't functionally do. anything other than just come at them with full force, which that would be, you know, that's, arguably that's not in their interest either, you know? We saw it with COVID. Right. We saw it with COVID.

Starting point is 01:15:48 The only country in the world that had, we've probably had 35, maybe even 45% or not 40 of the, of this country, refuse the COVID vaccine to great detriment, right? That's like extraordinary. And they were not, that was a major problem for them.

Starting point is 01:16:09 I agree. It will continue to be a major problem for that, for that. So we can see it working in real time. We just have to expand on it. 100%. Yes. Well, since you have to go soon, I was going to just play one more clip.

Starting point is 01:16:21 And you have time for that? Yeah, yeah. Okay. So two points to end with, I think are interesting. And then we should definitely connect again. I think there's plenty more we could get into. There's plenty of never an end of stuff to talk about.

Starting point is 01:16:31 I agree. I agree. Oh, I have to have you on my show. So now you have to reset. We got to do the reciprocal. Yeah. On my show because it's down on it. I'm looking forward to it.

Starting point is 01:16:40 I knew I was going to like you. Well, it's weird. We start the show out. We're like already on the same page with where we're going with the stuff. There's something there. But so I tweeted this today. And this was just another article in Texas. You mentioned Governor Abbott is already saying he's going to deploy the National Guard

Starting point is 01:16:55 because there's a protest that's scheduled. And I'm like, okay, this is, see, this is, and this is not new, really. We've seen this kind of thing happen before. But I just want to point out, deploying military before a planned protest, not due to violence, but simply to claim that it could happen. We're, and this is my opinion anyway, we're being destroyed by fake America first Zionist. I think that's a really large part of this. And so I want to play this clip of Trump.

Starting point is 01:17:15 You mentioned the military parade. Here's what Trump just said. Very short clip. You probably saw it. I think this is alarming that this is where we are. Not if they do this, but just a stated fact if they protest. Yeah. Big on Saturday.

Starting point is 01:17:26 We're going to have a lot of, and if there's any protests that wants to come out, they will be met with very big force. Okay. That's not okay. For those people I want to protest. He said three times. With very big force. And I haven't even heard about a protest.

Starting point is 01:17:38 But, you know, this is people that hate our country. Let's go, Ryan. Let's go protest. He says it three times in a row. And I'm just like, okay, there's no nuance there. Like he's saying if they protest, they'll be met with force. And they, like, so everyone that might protest automatically hates the country. Like, guys, these are like inherently anti-American sentiments that he's pushing out.

Starting point is 01:17:58 It's just so important that we acknowledge these things. And back to the larger point about what's happening with all this. And as both of us discuss, how it's being used. Go ahead. No, no. We have to resist that. And we might have to go protests. I mean, we might have to go and stand up and peacefully, regardless of our opinions about immigration or ICE or any of those things.

Starting point is 01:18:18 Because what Governor Abbott said is horrifying. It is blatantly unconstitutional. We have the right to speech, right? So we have the right to free speech. That means assembly. We have the right to assemble, period. And if we want to go and protest President Trump's little military parade, then we should be able to do so. And in fact, I think we probably, we are probably compelled to do so.

Starting point is 01:18:47 That's outrageous. It is. That's outrageous. And it's just alarming how many people will, like, know that and agree with us, but fail to call it out because of who's saying it. And that's what the, you know, one of the driving points today is, you know, it's about principles. It's about what you believe is right. And you know as well as I out there listening that what you're seeing is, in many ways is making you uncomfortable.

Starting point is 01:19:06 And obviously, if it was Biden, you'd already be yelling about it. Well, they lose their minds. Yeah. Lose their, Alex Jones. His face would be so red and his gains would be popping out of his neck. Bongino, too. Like, all, they would go absolutely fat shit crazy. Right.

Starting point is 01:19:26 I mean, crazy. Since you point that out, just to end, I think this is one of the things that I, oh, let me show this since I mentioned it as well. Catherine shared this simply highlight. that these protests are being funded by groups. I just warn us to think that it's a left-right paradigm thing, whether it's left groups or not. I think what's happening doesn't,

Starting point is 01:19:44 what I was going to say is how you explain to me what the argument from the right is is the left wants immigrants to be here, yet they manufacture chaos that drives the outcome of not letting immigrants be here. Like, these things don't make sense to me, but they are being orchestrated. We both agree on that. I just think it's important that we remember that it's, you know, a two-party illusion dynamic.

Starting point is 01:20:02 But I'll show you this video before we leave, and I wanted to highlight things like this. You know, Alex saying the Democrat finance-controlled insurrection is now spreading nationwide. Oh my gosh. And insurrection being used, in my opinion, because that's what gives the government the justification to not have to worry about Posse Comitatas. And then this one about Mexico, I'll, I got to go. So I'll play this one on the way out.

Starting point is 01:20:20 Just so I think that's important, as as James says, seeing is no longer believing, head on a swivel, y'all, things are about to get wild. And I can play this on the way out. Or you want to, would you like me play in there. I can give you a couple more minutes. I mean, yeah. That's okay. This will be the last one.

Starting point is 01:20:34 And it's, let's see. Oh, that I forget to grab it. Here, let's see. It's what it is basically is it's a video of just somebody showing the capabilities, not to say that she necessarily, you know, this is what's happening at these places, but simply showing that the capabilities of these platforms today to basically, you know, do not necessarily deep fakes,

Starting point is 01:20:55 but I guess that is what it would be called, a false video of what you're seeing. And so this is just something to keep in mind with all that's going on and now you're being driven to hate a certain side. Here is a video that I think is compelling with James Lee shared. Okay. I live in L.A., so I decided to go downtown today and talk to people and find out what's

Starting point is 01:21:13 really going on, what's their side of the story, to only get attacked and realize that they're all full of shit. Okay? Can't believe any of them. They're all full of shit. Did you catch that? It's a, it's a, it's a, or what do they call it, a filter you put over on TikTok or whatever else that makes it look like you're beat up?

Starting point is 01:21:31 You know, it's... Oh, no way. And these are everywhere. You know, people are using this. Now, my point is always is you'll always get people just to watch the world burn that want to come out and just throw something in that makes people upset. But there's also very clear intelligence and political agendas. I just think that's important to consider. You know, discernment, wisdom, sobriety, I think is going to be critical moving forward because there is just so much deception out there.

Starting point is 01:22:00 That is wild. And I'll tell you, Alex Jones is an utter tragedy. A tragedy, I can't like, I don't know how anyone can take him serious. I mean, well, I mean, he's clearly, he's clearly a propagandist. I mean, in every sense of the word. I agree. At the very least. No, I agree completely.

Starting point is 01:22:23 I just think that it's agreeing with you. There's a hundred examples over the process of a week that show you dishonest tactics or just flat out incorrect information. And, you know, it's not about hating somebody. It's about showing people that you're being deceived. And whether he knows it or not, which I find almost impossible if he doesn't, you know, there's a lot of people like that out there. So the message is just question everything, right?

Starting point is 01:22:43 You don't fall into these ideological bubbles because they're using you, you know? Right. Yeah. And, you know, we can make it, we probably give a million examples of Democrats doing this too. Exactly. It's the people in power. See, I follow the powerful.

Starting point is 01:22:56 And so when the Democrats are in power, I'm going to scrutinize them. when the Republicans are in power, I'm going to scrutinize them. We're in dangerous times. And so I'm glad that you and I made this connection. I so appreciate your work. I really, if there's a wavelength, we're both on it, for sure. It's very rare that you meet someone. You're like, you know, but I really appreciate you, having me on. And I just cannot wait to introduce you to my audience as well, because this has been a long time coming, I think. And so here's to hopefully a lot of, of future years in collaboration.

Starting point is 01:23:31 We have a lot of work to do for sure. Yes, here, here. Thank you. And I'm looking forward to it as well. I'm sure, you know, I think that there's, like we were saying earlier, that, you know, there's an effort out there to stop certain people from collaborating, in my opinion, call me a conspiracy theorist, plenty do. I think it's interesting that there's a reason, you know, you can see why when people,

Starting point is 01:23:48 especially with audiences and you overlap that, like, you gain momentum with these things. And I think the system more than ever that we saw right before the selection of 2024 and 2025, that people were just, you know, we're going. you know, question the two-party illusion. Maybe don't, maybe vote for their, vote for, don't vote or vote. And people lost their minds when we were saying that for years. The system is desperate.

Starting point is 01:24:08 It is vulnerable right now. And I don't mean to collapse the country sense. I mean the sense of the power structure is trying to control you. And it's a time right now, as you say, for real change. And I think that we do have, let's put it this way, we do have a lot of work to do. I'm looking forward to it. Absolutely.

Starting point is 01:24:22 They do so much. Appreciate you. Yeah. And as always, everybody out there. Thank you for joining. Question everything. Come to your own conclusions. Stay vigilant.

The Last American Vagabond - Shannon Joy Interview - Fighting For Truth In A Partisan World, LA Chaos & The Impending Lockdowns

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