The Late Braking F1 Podcast - 2023 Japanese GP Review

Episode Date: September 24, 2023

Back to business as usual for Verstappen who comfortably won the Japanese GP and sealed off Red Bull's sixth Constructors' Championship. Ben & Sam are here to run through the race from Verstappen's dominant display, McLaren's double podium, Mercedes' strategy, and Perez's mistakes and penalty. As always, they review their predictions, name their drivers of the day, and listen to your moments of the race.. FOLLOW us on socials! You can find us on YouTube, Instagram, X (Twitter) and TikTok SUPPORT our Patreon for bonus episodes JOIN our Discord community JOIN our F1 Fantasy League BUY our Merch EMAIL us at [e-mail]   & SUBSCRIBE to our podcast! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This podcast is part of the Sports Social Podcast Network. Thank you for listening to the Late Breaking F1 podcast. Make sure to check out new episodes every Wednesday and every Sunday. Oh, and a very well welcome to the late breaking F1 podcast presented by Sam Sage and me, Ben Hocking, today, reviewing the Japanese Grand Prix, won by Max Verstappen. It was just a one-week absence, nothing more than that. Max Verstappen dominating the Grand Prix. by just over 19 seconds ahead of a double podium for the McLaren driver,

switching positions based on where they qualified Lando Norris yet again in second place, and Oscar Piastri claiming his first podium in third. I've actually got someone to join me today, and it's Sam. No Harry, of course, but Sam's here. Golly, Harry, of course. That's a given. I felt bad leaving you all on your own just for the one episode of qualifying, so I thought I'd get up early come and join you.

Harry, I imagine, is, I don't know, sleeping for an eternity, wishing we could as well. We do get to make up an excuse as to why he's not here, so we could say that he is snowboarding in Norway. He's not cool enough to do that, so I think he is passing it picking in South Wales. Oh, no, he's not cool enough for that either. Never mind. we've got plenty to get on without him anyway. So moment of the race submissions coming up later on. Sergio Perez having a difficult race,

retiring from the Grand Prix and involved in a couple of incidents. We'll be discussing his race. Mercedes versus Ferrari was an ongoing battle today. McLaren will discuss that double podium, but we'll start out front with that Max Verstappen win and indeed the fastest lap that came with it right at the end. Pretty impressive performance, right? So, I mean, what did you make of it?

It was Vastappen back to his absolute best, wasn't it? It was what, first thing, all three practice sessions, picked up the pole quite comfortably when it mattered, and then absolutely dominated. The only time we didn't lead the full session was, of course, when he had to make that pit stop, and I think Russell and Sikes maybe got a lap to themselves out front. But it was truly dominant.

I mean, we all discussed this technical directive coming into the Japanese weekend. if it will make a change, but realistically it proved to be technically irrelevant when it came to that performance. Red Bull, again, back on true form. They were so incredibly dominant. Max was staff in doing what he does best. Constructors champions, six Constructors champions for them as a team now, too, in a row. Crofty really struggled to say that multiple times on the live show. A lot of season, yeah, yeah.

And someone who is quite tired was really starting to lose my rag. So, yeah, I've fair play to him. Smash it. as you say it was a very dominant run and it was one of those where some races you get where into term one there's a bit of a question mark if the other driver can get ahead maybe they can make something of it here you felt like even if lando norris or indeed oscar piastri managed to get ahead of vastappen at the start which of course nearly happened in the case of norris but didn't quite it wouldn't have mattered anyway this was this was a vastappan win from the off all he had to do

was avoid a catastrophic error or a mistake or some really awful luck, which he did. And that's why he won. This was one of those where he won by 19 seconds and you feel like it could have been 39 if he needed it to be. And he got that lead fairly comfortably after the VSC and the safety car periods, extended it out enough and then sort of managed it from there. He could be a bit more relaxed when it came to. He didn't have to worry about undercuts in the same way that pretty much everyone on the grid did.

So a pretty dominant victory for him. Do you reckon this sets him up potentially as Singapore being the only blemish for the year? It would drive me mad. If I was part of that team, if I was Max Verstappen, and I knew that in theory, I guess Vegas is coming. And we literally, as we discussed in our, was it, our Patreon episode? Yeah, on our Patreon episode, we discussed, you know, what could be the biggest curveball for Red Bull, you know, in the last. latter stages of this season, we all kind of put Vegas at the forefront of that. But yeah, you've got to look back at the season at how dominant they'd be

and how they've barely been challenged. I mean, even Perez could challenge for Stapler has barely been there now. And you think we couldn't capitalize on that one track of Singapore? I guess you go, wow, amazing. Look at what we've achieved. Like no other. We could win, what, 22 races of 23 or wherever it's going to be, or 21 or 22. and Singapore is going to be the only thing that causes us to not get that 100%

there will be a little part of every competitive person that is going to kick themselves for that. And I wonder if they've learned yet what caused such a downfall at one track. Yeah, it's probably going to confuse them for a while. I mean, in all honesty, they've probably moved on from it enough now that it doesn't. It doesn't really matter. It's academic at this point. obviously constructors championship wrapped up this weekend. Driver's championship could be wrapped up in two weeks time at Qatar,

potentially in a sprint race. The words that Ben Hocking never ever wanted to hear is that the championship could be decided in a sprint race. I feel like, yes, definitely. But quite a lot of people are probably on my side on this one. I don't think anyone wants it to be decided a sprint race. I'm on your side entirely. I think it is, I think it almost should be illegal for it to be decided not on an actual Grand Prix.

Straight to jail. Straight to prison for you, FIA, for making this possible. Yeah, so I think it's entirely possible that he does go undefeated for the rest of this season. It wouldn't shock me in the slightest. Certainly this victory here at Japan, I think was Vestappan's most dominant since Hungary, probably, which given we've had at least maybe four races, between Hungary and now. It's pretty impressive to get back to where he was at that point.

But even in a season full of dominant victories, this was probably towards the top end of those dominant wins. Certainly, if you're looking throughout the season, Hungary is up there. Spain, he had a very dominant win there. There were a couple early in the season as well that you'd put alongside that too. But this one, this one was right up there. of course as well he was fighting by himself

do you think him winning the Constructors Championship essentially by himself today obviously not throughout the season but securing it himself today is almost an indictment of how this year has gone I mean what's crazy is in theory I reckon by the end of the season he probably could have won the Constructors

Championship by himself with how dominant he's been but yeah it is a real metaphor for how the battle between the two sides of the garage between Max Mustafa and the Sergei Perez has run out this season, that one driver retires and has a farcical conversation about having to potentially come out of retirement to serve a penalty so we don't get penalized again for my mistakes in the next Grand Prix. And the other one is, remember after a safety car, able to put out a 20 second lead and still

bring home the title all by himself. It could not be a bigger shining example of how this season has gone. And we're going to get on to the likes of Perez later, but it was pretty devastatingly bad this weekend for him. And it really shows the golfing quality between one of the greatest of all time, which I think we could probably say now, Max Verstappen, and someone who is, no disrespect to Sergei Perez, just a really, really solid midfield up a midfield driver. That's not bad. Most people will never get to where he is, but there are levels between someone like Sergio Perez and Max Verstappen. what do red bull do now so they they've officially secured the constructors championship obviously it was

kind of known from i don't know five races in that this was going to happen but it is officially done now from a constructors perspective and it is more than likely that in two weeks time the other championship will be decided in red bull's favor too but Perez himself arguably still has a bit of a fight on his hands to secure second place in the driver's championship probably ahead of Lewis Hamilton, certainly Aston Martin, not giving Fernando Alonzo the car necessary to fight for second at the moment. It's still an outside chance for Hamilton, but do you think that Red Bull fully transitioned to next season now, don't care if Perez finished his second or third, or do they leave a little bit left in the tank for this season to try and secure that one, too?

I think if you're Sergio Perez, obviously you want to pick up second place because it gives you contract negotiation power, right? It allows you to go, right? I finished second behind Max. I did my job. Yes, okay, it was closer than maybe we've liked, but I was still there. I was still the guy that was backing you up.

I think from Red Bull's point of view, it depends what record they want to chase. I think that's all it's about for them. Do they want to sit here and go, keep developing the car, keep pushing the car, keep doing everything for 2023, and we want to bring home, you know, 21 out of 22 Grand Prix wins.

We want to have the most, in theory, highest wing percentage you can ever get in a season over this many races and break this many records and in theory, Maxwell Stappard could take home one fifth of all of Lewis Hamilton's wings in one season, which is genuinely terrifying, you know, at how many he could pick up,

or do they face a different record, which you can look at it in this manner of when we want to win a third consecutive title, which is stop all development now and focus every single piece of your energy, of your development, of your build, that 2024 car and do what Mercedes did so well through their dominant era, which is build your car so early that your competitors don't have a chance to catch up because Mercedes will

still be focusing on getting second place in the constructors. Ferrari want to make sure that third is in the bag. McLaren are desperate to make sure they beat Ascom Martin and they're going the right way about it. Ascom Martin went on flounder too much. They end up finishing in fifth. Everyone else is preoccupied. Now is the time to strike early. Get the blowing before anyone else even sees you coming. and get a jump start. I think if I'm Red Bull, I go straight to 2024 and go, Sergio, it's not been good, has it?

It's not been brilliant. But, oh, well, we still managed to get the title we wanted. We're going to crack on now with 2024. Cheers, thank you very much. But I think Sergio might want to argue slightly differently. Yeah, I don't know what value second place should mean to Sergio Perez this year. I don't know if it does, but I don't know,

I don't think it should. Certainly to Red Bull, there's not really any value in it being 1-2 versus 1-3. If they wrap up both championships, that's job done for the season and they move on to it being the job for next year. From Perez's individual perspective, could he look at it and say it's something I've never done before, finishing second in the championship?

Could do, but ultimately, I don't think it should be something he cares massively about. He's claimed a couple of wins this year. He's helped the team win the Constructed Championship. And that should be the objective again next year. So anything he can do to help himself out into 2024, I feel like that's the better play here. Certainly, he should be able to secure second either way

because he does have that gap on Hamilton, Alonzo and the rest. What about your driver of the day, Sam? Who have you got? I'm going to have to be really boring. And I'm going to give it to Max Verstappen. This was probably up there, like you said, Ben, at the start of our little segment, probably top three most dominant races of the season so far

and in a season full of dominant performances where they've obliterating everyone, race after race after race. It's impressive to say that this one comes in at one of the most dominant and again there was a safety car and he had to get off the line well and it was a bit touch and go,

but it was so easy for the team and he was turned down on the engine on his abilities, on he's pushing from 10, 15 maps before the end. He could have pushed it even further. The guy is, driving like no one else at the moment. He is a league above the rest. He deserves his time. So for me, yeah, Vestappan driver of the day. Yeah, I think for me, the shoutouts include the two

McLaren drivers. Certainly Piastri getting his first podium is impressive. But if you're looking on the day, who was the better McLaren driver, it was Lando Norris quite comfortably, even with the disadvantage of not having a, I wouldn't say a VSC pit stop. It was more of a half VSC pit stop, wasn't it, in the case of Piastri. But even so, he had an advantage in the pits there when Norris had to make the move on him, which he did, and he still ended up comfortably gaping Piastri by the end. So both McLaren drivers are within a shout.

I think from Alfa Tari's perspective as well, I think both drivers performed pretty well out there today. I think this was Liam Lawson, despite getting points at Singapore and not getting points here, I think this was Liam Lawson's best race so far. I was encouraged that him and Sonoda were neck and neck for the entire race, which right now, that's impressive from Lawson's perspective. So I think both of them deserve a shout,

but like you, it's difficult to go against Max Verstappen here because if you were to pick out what went wrong for him, you'd be here for a while. Is there what, okay, he didn't get off the line. as quickly as Norris. That is the one thing that did not go his way today. Outside of that, he got the fastest lap, he got the win, he crushed it. So it kind of has to be him, right?

I know the fan vote went with Piastri, which I think the fan vote often does go with more sentimental choices, let's say, versus what we give out, where we're looking maybe slightly more objectively, which sounds weird to say. but yeah, I think Vestappen overall watch driver of the day. Yeah, I do agree. I think the TV do like to give almost like a good boy pat on the back. You know, a great job from the fans watching. And Piazziro deserves that the fact that he's picked up that podium.

And I tweeted this, when McClaren picked up, we get onto it properly. You know, in their first race, they were 17th and had a DNF. And now they've comfortably beaten Mercedes at a track like this, which is incredibly aerodynamic, you know, importance, holds a huge aerodynamic importance is incredible. I also want to shout out Lawson. The fact that we had the Ricardo and Senoda contracts agreed at the start of this race weekend.

So Lawson's driving without a drive now and he puts in a shift like that. Maybe he used it as further motivation, but to start well from behind Senoda, beat him on the day at his home grand prix, it was a really, really impressive drive. I'm fully on board the hype train. He is impress me more than I ever thought he could have done.

I think my expectations for him were like the Zhou level. That's where I was coming from. And now I look at him and I'm like, you are above that stage for me. He's already got more promise for me. So I hope he gets a seat soon. Yeah. And as I kind of mentioned, it was good for him to actually have the measuring stick of Sonoda out there for the entire Grand Prix. So suddenly there is that representative teammate that he can look against it and compare to.

and they were right next to each other for the entire corporate. I know Lawson won by, was it, seven tenths at the flag or something like that, but there was, you know, Lawson led in the first stint, Sonoda led in the middle stint, Lawson led in the third stint. So encouraging that they were so competitive. Worst driver of the day, who've you got? So, Super Race, I'm sorry, there's no real, there's no real other option. Some drivers have a bag one, you know, Logan Sargent,

punting Valtry Botas just off the field, for example, was not his finest moment. And a lot of people at that moment immediately called for Logan to just, you know, see a later, sunshine, there's no drive for you here. But when you commit multiple prison-worthy offenses that, you know, you'd be jailed on the street for, you just don't have an excuse for it. In a car that's that good that can win by over 20 seconds,

in a car that, you know, was on pole by that level, and you're mucking it up time after time with such simple errors which is just so uncharacteristic the wheel to wheel racing was atrocious the overtaking before the pit entry line on the safety car terrible

every single part was just so bad for Sergio Perez it might be his worst race of the season which is awful that I'm saying it might be isn't categorically because he's had some proper shockers this year as well it's not good at all

but he really needs to be called out for this one this has been a bad weekend for him. Yeah, I feel like with Sergio Perez, obviously we've become accustomed to seeing this year poorer qualifying performances, which in fairness to him happened earlier in the year. Generally speaking, his qualifying has picked up throughout the year. But certainly when he was going through his really crazy run

of not making Q3, he was still recovering most of it in the Grand Prix itself. Like he was making 14th to 6th for driving. And it was often a topic of these review episodes of did he do enough should he have gone from, you know, 13th to 3rd rather than 13th to 6th or something along those lines. But realistic, even when it wasn't a great recovery, it was still a recovery. Here, it wasn't. And it was a self-inflicted error that meant that he took no further, well, quote marks here, took no further part in this Grand Prix. I am struggling to not give it to Perez here because the move on Magnuson was similar to the move on Albin in Singapore.

It wasn't quite as bad as that one, but it's just, why? Why are you being so impatient with this? It's a has. If you notice the Has cars, even in practice, their tyres went off after like four corners. Just wait. They have not got the pace to try. They didn't have the pace to trouble anyone. let alone Red Bull, just wait a second or two.

It doesn't need to happen at that corner. Wait until you get to spoon cover. Wait until, even if you have to wait until turn one, at least your car's in one piece. We saw it was a high attrition race. It was, what, five retirements in the year? Yeah, 15 finishes. Take, yeah, take your time.

So I agree with your point on Sergeant, but I have to give it to Sergio Peres too. Big brain strap. What have you got? There were two contenders for me, and I wonder if one of them might go to you. But so I'll already talk to one, and we can maybe bring it up afterwards if it isn't brought up. But I'm going to have to go. Mercedes, again, have proved me correct with their inability to have good strategy

and that their brilliant engine and car and drivers in their dominant period has saved them from embarrassing themselves. But it's all coming out now. It's all coming out the woodwork because you've got George Russell bleating on on the radio. and I think he makes, and again, we'll get onto it more detail later on the show, but I generally think he makes a strong argument of, we saw it work with science in Singapore, let me give Hamilton, DRS, until the end of the race, and I will swap over on the last lap, and it protects us both,

because Lewis's tyres are better, so he can defend better. And then they swap over anyway, cool, sure. But then Hamilton's already two seconds off up the road, and then on the radio, they go, oh, Louis, he just back off, give George the IRS and by that point, Sykes is essentially about to go alongside him anyway and Lewis has now lost the gap. It would have been a categoric failure had Sykes then got past Hamilton as well. It was only for Hamilton's great driving at the end that made sure they kept one of those positions. So, ah, just embarrassing again from the Mercedes strategy team,

big brain award on how to keep positions. They didn't. It was not good. I will go with, I'll go with the Red Bull decision to take the five-second penalty on Sergio Perez in the Grand Prix itself, rather than risk a penalty being dragged on to the next Grand Prix. I think there's a bit of inconsistency as to what actually would have happened if he would have had a grid penalty for Qatar or not. But I mean, just you might as well play it safe. If you can get the car out there and take the penalty, might as well do it. because there's really nothing to lose at that point. Certainly it's something we don't see as much in F1 versus say IndyCar,

where there is a retirement or a big incident that essentially nullifies a car and makes their progress in the race impossible. But in IndyCar, you do often see these sort of, they do turn it into a test session somewhat. And you don't really ever see that in F1, which Red Bull declined to do that. But I don't see any reason not to go ahead with it. I don't know if the FIA need to look into it to try and make sure teams don't do that. But, you know, fair play to Red Bull.

They were on it. Yeah, yeah. And it was a good example. Great, great big brain, Ben. You have got a great big brain. The other one I was thinking of, which we commented on in our little text chat, was Ferrari trying to send McLaren for a dummy and then pitting on exactly the same lap as McLaren anyway.

And it just made me giggle because it's so Ferrari. Got him. That's how you do it, dummy, right? We do the same thing. Okay, well, we're going to reflect on that. We'll take our first break. We'll be discussing the fortunes of McLaren right after this. A very good day for McLaren indeed.

33 points they take from this race, thanks to Lando Norris for getting second place, and Oscar Piastri getting his first podium in third, not including spring races. So a very good weekend for the guys in Orange. Question on this. Is fifth place doable? I believe the gap is now 49 points between themselves and Aston Martin,

who did not have a good day? I mean, fifth place, is it doable? I feel like it's going to be a romp at this point. It feels like, you know, Francoll O'Lonk's, what, picks up four points, McClaron pick up 33 points all to themselves. And realistically, realistically, realistically, if something happens to Fasdapin,

they are the only ones in for a shoe in to take victory. I don't know where the pace is going to come from. At the start of the Grand Prix, I was thinking, Alonso looks alright here, actually. It looks like Ascom Martin had found a little bit of pace. You know, he was a heggen and the Seiz. He was challenging. Good start merchant.

Good start merchant is Fernando Alonso. The Ferrari looked a little bit under threat. And then it all just really fell apart. You could tell it fell apart because Fernando Alonso gets this toning his voice over the radio. He gets a little bit shouty and a bit stressed. And he's kind of like, fix it. Fix it immediately.

I can't be dealing with driving around behind Esteban Okong for my entire life anymore. And again, we commented that O'Con is probably driving around cackling in his helmet. But he went, you left me and we're not friends anymore. And look at me now. I think Al Pee even tweeted the three lying emojis when O'Kong was defending like a in front of Fernando Alonso, which I thought was a fantastic mini reference. Really, really fun on social media. So, yeah, I mean, Ascom Martin to me, they just don't have what it takes this year.

They do not have the developmental ability. They've been outdeveloped. The incredible turnaround, like I said, to go from 17th of DNF in Bahrain. I don't think they picked up even close to points again in Saudi Arabia. And now, at this Grand Prix, they were by far the second fast. team. And if both drivers in Red Bull were Sergei Perez and not Max Verstappen, they all won this race quite comfortably. So the turnaround has been nothing short of phenomenal. The big question is, while I think McLaren will get Ashton Martin come the end of this year, McLaren can't let it

slip again. We can't have another season where they make a great resurgence throughout the year and they're fighting for podiums, much like we had with the Ferrari McLaren battling 2021. They have to come back to 2024 and do it again. They need to be there consistently. Landon Norris will leave you if he has to sit in 15th place again for the first six races of the season. You're missing out on valuable points of money. Get it done from race one. Certainly if you look at again, yeah, 33 points gained by McLaren today just four for Aston Martin. That happens twice more. Just twice, they have the lead. So it's, I, I know today was maybe an extreme result in that Aston Martin were really, really slow,

and McLaren might have had their best weekend of the season so far, on a par maybe with the likes of Silverstone. But we've got more than two races left. There's still a long way to go. We are not at the point in F1, where the end of September means there is one or two races to go. There's still a lot to play for. There is still Abu Dhabi, Brazil, Las Vegas, Qatar, like all of these are still to come. And they don't need to gain 29 points on

Astor Martin every single weekend. They can gain probably 10 points on them. And that will be enough. And based on today's evidence, that is entirely doable. It's something I mentioned in the qualifying review. You've got Piastrian Norris qualifying second and third and finishing second and third. You've got Fernando Alonzo scraping into Q3 into 10th place, finishing 8th, which realistically was the absolute best he could get from that car, and Lance Stroll not able to finish. And I appreciate today might not have been on stroll himself, but qualifying definitely was.

He couldn't make it into Q3 the same way that Alonso could. So, yeah, I could, I could very much see fifth place becoming an option, which is a shocking thing to say versus, you know, based on what we had at the beginning of the season, not just from a McLaren perspective of they were nowhere, but also from an Astor Martin perspective, they were Red Bull's best challengers for a limited time. And despite that, they are going to be, they're going to be a long way off Red Bull.

They're going to be comfortably off Ferrari and Mercedes. And yeah, they might well be losing out to McLaren as well. It's slightly, slightly worrying. My only concern, not concern, my only hope, rather, the opposite of concern, works, folks, apparently I don't, is that Aston Martin saw Red Bulls advantage so early that they decided after the summer break to not do anything to this current car and every bit of work has gone to 2024. And they've said to Fernando, it's going to be hard. You're not going to get

the results you want after the summer break. But Bahrain, 2024, would have done seven, eight months of work on this 2024 car before anyone else, you know, put the work in. It's going to be a beast. and that's what I hope they're going for. Because if they turn up to Bahrain and they're finishing seventh and eighth, it's a disaster, an absolute disaster for Ashton Martin. Yeah, I agree with you on that. And certainly from Fernando Alonzo's perspective, I agreed with your observation that his tone was that of the McLaren Honda days.

Now, obviously the situation is nowhere near as dire as that was. But certainly, at least with the McLaren Honda days, there were no glimpses of potential or success, right? It was just a constant rubbishness. Here, he kind of saw what the car was capable of at the beginning. You've given Alonzo hope and stripped it away from him. That ain't going to work. Hope for Alonzo is the worst thing to have.

Yes, exactly. Right. And I felt like today there was a completely different tone to his radio messages versus anything we've seen so far this year. Because, yeah, Aston Martin have had some poor races so far this year. The Spanish Grand Prix didn't go very well for them, if you remember.

Last time out of Singapore, obviously was a disaster. They've had a couple around the late European season mark, which haven't gone very well. But it felt like here was a completely different tone where I don't know if it was the fact that, I know we joke, I don't know if it was the fact that Ocon was ahead of him

that might have triggered it because he moves away from Alpine in the hope, that it's a move up the grid. And for a time, it was. But now, based on where the car is, right now, it's a bit of a sideways move. They are, roughly speaking, where Alpine are. I know he finished ahead of Gasli and knock on,

but not by a lot. He finished ahead of one position. Yeah, yeah, exactly. There's just nothing, nothing in it. So I don't know whether he's, he just saw Ockon ahead of him, unable to catch the slowest car in a straight line and overtake him. Alonzo might be in for a long six or seven races or so, I think.

Yeah, I bet he's already praying for that preseason testing to come round in February, March time, and hoping that the car they give him, I think maybe next season, you know, could be the last chance he really gets at taking home race wings. So let's hope for his sake we get that. And just to focus on McLaren for a little bit more, because Norris Pius, Piacstrue double podium, I'll get onto something Norris said in a moment, but that is McLaren's first double podium of the year, obviously, based on it being Piestri's first podium. Ferrari, haven't had a double podium this year.

Aston Martin, haven't had a double podium this year. Mercedes have only, I believe, done it once. I think they did it at the Spanish Grand Prix with a two, three there, but I don't believe they've done it a second time. So if you're looking at all the teams around McLaren, and you can look at three other teams around them and say, only one of them has done it once, and here we've done it at Japan, that feels like a pretty respectable mark.

And I'll go into what Norris said, and I discussed this very briefly on the episode yesterday, after Piastri signed on for a few more years, Lando Norris claimed that he thinks they've got the best line up in the world, which I didn't agree with, but also I don't think it's ridiculous to think in a couple years, time, that might be the case? What do you think? I think it shows that Landon Norris is confident and committed in this current McLaren format. And I think they were benefiting by Sergio Perez

being diabolically bad today. I think if Sergio Perez was able to even pull out 80% of that Red Bull's capabilities, then maybe the double podium wouldn't have been on. I don't think they earned it on true pace alone. I think they got a little lucky with how the secondary Red Bull worked. But hey, isn't that the case with how Mercedes' double podium came along as well and how many podiums have come along with the fact that Sergio Perez hasn't been putting it in the top three? So you're going to take your opportunities when they arise and they really did. Now, Ben, I think you're probably going to come up with this point as well that when Lando crossed the line today in Suzuki and he looked up at the TV, saw Piacari also in P3, he said, Red Bull, we're coming for you.

You know, we're not resting on our laurels. And that shows you such a level of ambition and belief in this team. And I need to hold my hands up because, you know, four or five races into this season when they hadn't scored a single point, I was calling for Zach Brown's head. I was saying that he's not done enough. I was saying that Landon Norris needs to get out of the team, get to Red Bull, otherwise the success will never come. Now, it still hasn't fully come.

They're not winning races. They're not going to be winning championships anytime soon. but they might get closer if they continue on a trajectory like this. And the overturn of teams like Ferrari, like you mentioned, and especially for me, Mercedes, is quite astonishing the fact that they have managed you properly, it feels like leapfrog. You got to remember they buy their engines off of the Sees. They are a customer of that team, the team that was winning eight constructors titles

in a row, no less than three seasons ago. And now, Mercedes can't pick up more than four or five positions. gives us in a season and McLaren are on the double podium when they were no points for the first five grand prix. The turnaround is nothing short of phenomenal and the speed in which we've done it because how often, Ben, do we say that, for example, let's take Freddie Vass at Ferrari. This isn't his season. We shouldn't expect the Freddie Vass culture and foundations and updates to come into effect really until maybe the last few races, but mainly 2024 is when we will see the first entry. But you've got Stella now at McLaren and you've got these three heads of

departments. And it feels like McClaren have picked up these updates perfectly within six or seven races. And they've gone from being a team when they got their first upgrades at Austria. And they were, all right, fifth, fourth. That's great in comparison to where they were to second and third easily. Ferrari could touch him today. My Mercedes were nowhere near him, asking, what's the point? It is a phenomenal turnaround. and it should not be understated that they realistically are the closest team to catching and beating Red Bull right at this point. And I hope they push on.

And I hope Landon Norris gets the reward for his loyalty. And I hope Piazri can continue to thrive there. Because I don't, I agree with you, Ben. I don't think they have the best driver line up in Formula One right now. But are they miles off? No. I say maybe 10, 15% at a maximum. I think it's Mercedes.

And then maybe Ferrari and McLaren currently are neck and neck. with having the overall best driver pairing. The Stappen, of course, is being, I think, unfortunately weighed down with Perez. But yeah, I don't think they're far off. It's not an audacious claim. I could happily listen to him say it and not be, you know, offended by ridiculousness. So, yeah, I think it's looking incredibly positive for the Papaya Boys.

Yeah, and before we go to our next break, I just want to mention you, you spoke to Lando Norris's ambition on the post-race radio to say, that we're coming for you, Red Bull, and I did pick up on that. One I picked up on even more was actually Piastri. He gets his first podium, his first career podium in F1. It is a memorable moment, and what does he say? Didn't have a great race. He wants more.

He gets third place at an F1 Grand Prix, and one of his first initial responses is he didn't have a great race, which is probably fair. He finished a fair way off Lando Norris, but that just shows, what he thinks he is capable of. He thinks he is capable of much more. I think most in that situation

are just delighted to be on the podium and kind of stop there. I don't know. I like that. That showed me what he's all about. You know, it reminds me of Lewis Hamilton in his first season. The amount of drive

that immediately was kicked into Hamilton when he came onto the scene. And Vettel very much the same, actually. We're seeing it, I think, in Piastri of a, he's been given the cards, we've given the upgrades later than Norris. He's immediately performed. No one can say there's a negative about Piastri. He needs time to get up to Landon Norris's ability. And Landon Norris is one of the elite in F1 at the moment. And he's only, is that close already, big things are coming for Oscar Piastri. Yeah, damn right. And to think as well, like, they're younger than they seem as well. Because Lano Norris has been in F1 for a few years and because Oscar Piastri has already

so mature, you forget how young they are. I mean, you add their ages together, they're not far off and under Alonzo. So they've got a lot of years still to come, put it that way. Right, let's take our next short break. We'll be discussing Mercedes and Ferrari right after this. One of the ongoing battles throughout the Japanese Grand Prix was Mercedes versus Ferrari. Charlele-Clau finished ahead of the four drivers, then followed by Lewis Hamilton, then Carlos Seins, then George Russell. We saw George Russell go for a different strategy. He went for a one stop where I think everyone else went for at least two. What did you make of that strategic decision going from the mediums to the hard sum?

I think the first thing that I want to point out is we got George Russell back where he was commanding from the car. And I feel like we've been lacking that over the last few races. And I think it's fair to say that George Russell is not having the season of his life. you know, he's closer to 100 points now behind Lewis Hamilton. He's regularly off of the actual final pace at Hamilton. There you go. That's huge, the fact that he's level with Norris. I didn't know that. Thank you for that little stat man. I do it higher, but I am very tired. You know, Hamilton has been deploying consistent pace. As you said, Ben, I think in our,

maybe our summer break, you say, you know, every race, 8.5 out of 10 from Hamilton, it's always incredibly solid. But we got George Russell back where he was willing to be a bit gutsy. asked for this from the drivers, especially Mercedes. It feels a little bit shy, a bit, you know, reserved. And Russell again goes, right, this isn't working. We've lost the undercut now. We're going to go to plan B. We're going to try and make it work. And it didn't pay off. He became the final finisher of all four of those cars, as you mentioned. And the ties had gone off by the end. But overall, what did he lose? Four points, six points overall. Okay, sure. But he tried to give himself a completely different position where if a safety car comes out and there was a good

chance of one, we had enough incidents, he's suddenly in a position where he could pit and he might come out in second or third place and suddenly he's on fresh tyres and he's a heck of them all. And it's decisions like that, which might cost him. But more often than not, I think it might help him. I think it might lift him up. I just hope he doesn't get too silly with it. You heard it with Oscar Piastri, the engineer came on the radio and said, safety car comes out now, We could get the scout of these tires or we could pit onto softs, but we lose three places.

If you asked you immediately, I'll take it, give it to me. I love that aggression, that ambition in the car. And Russell deployed it. But the strategy overall from Mercedes, it felt faulted. It felt, again, recessive, negative. Ferrari, as much as they did the silly dummy, they sacrificed Sites immediately. And LeCleur was gone. He was clear.

There was no fighting LeClaude. They couldn't catch him. And Sites held his own. got beaten by Hamilton. I think realistically, he did all he could to get that pass. He was seven tenths away from making it work. And I think Ferrari relatively outshung, Masegis to go. Hamilton was really good, even with the damage on the car cut and the stakes, but I think that was minor damage caused by that. He beat George quite comfortably again by commanding a two-stop. So, Mercedes seemed to be losing their team ethos, whereas other teams around them seem to be starting

to pull together more often. And we need, Mercedes can be more gutsy because I think it is now generally costing them. But I think it was good from George despite him finishing last out of the group to be a bit more ballsy in the car. Yeah, I think the strategy itself was probably worth a go in that he had to be pulled away from the fight in that he was told to let Lewis Hamilton pass. But at the point where he's deciding whether it's going to a one stop or not, he doesn't know that a Ferrari of Carlos Seines is going to be in the mix come that point in

the race. So if it was a straight fight between Hamilton and Russell, which it was prior to Hamilton's first pit stop, yeah, I mean, they kind of worked as well as each other. Would Hamilton have got past Russell if he needed to make the overtake? Maybe. But Hamilton was just ahead of Russell to begin with anyway. So actually, pace-wise, they kind of worked out the same. Of course, Russell had to sacrifice himself, essentially.

come the end of the race. But I thought from a one-stop perspective, it was worth a go. He was the only one who tried. I think the two-stop was probably just about quicker if you timed it perfectly with the undercuts every time. But he had a decision to make because he was right behind Lewis Hamilton. Certainly we had the incident at Spoon Curve, where they both went off. He nearly got past him at the hairpin as well.

If you remember when Lewis Hamilton ran wide at the second Degner, So there were a few opportunities for George Russell to get past. It felt like he was slightly quicker than Lewis Hamilton early on in the Grand Prix. So, yeah, they had a choice. I think Russell, based on Hamilton having first dibs on pit stop, he could either come in the lap afterwards and know that, okay, Hamilton's got the undercut. He's going to have a two-second advantage over me.

I'm never going to beat him. Or I try something completely different. I go to what I'm guessing was Plan B based on its team. radio messages. And he gave that a go. Did it work? Not quite, but he was probably losing

to Hamilton either way. So might as well try something different. I agree. I think that's why we saw them tussling more than we've ever really seen them going wheel to will here at the Japanese Grand Prix. And I think that's because

Hamilton was with that minor damage fighting that undersea. It makes that mistake in Degna 2. And then he's obviously challenged all the way through the hairpin and spoon curve. sorry, I'm croaking. And I think at that point, Hamilton knew pit window is about to open up.

And I'm only just the lead Mercedes here. And if I give it up now, I give up the pit command, which means that I then get undercut, which means I have to either run long on these tires, which he thought, clearly, not a viable strategy, or I come in the lap later and I'm then two, three seconds behind them, I've got to make it up again. So I think the reason we saw Hamilton shut the door and Russell and both cars kind of run off the track a little bit was because he, he knew how pivotal getting the pit mapping at the right time was. Maybe I'm overreeding it, but if that is the case, it shows you how intelligent these guys are for knowing what really matters at that time. Now, of course, there was the early decision by George Russell to

one stop rather than two stop, but then there were more strategic decisions to come later on where George Russell desperately wanted to play what Carlos Sines played against him from Singapore here at Japan. So George Russell was the lead of the three cars himself, Carlos Sines and Lewis Hamilton, in the order of Russell Hamilton signs. But of course, Russell are much older tires at that point. Mercedes made the decision that George Russell will let Hamilton go. Russell is then overtaken by Carlos Sines as well, but Carlos Sines unable to get the overtake on Lewis Hamilton. So they kept one Mercedes in front. They weren't able to keep both. Do you think, that Mercedes played that correctly, or should they have followed what George Russell said

and tried to play the DRS game that Ferrari did the week before? Now, I think with this strategy call, for me, either works. I don't think either one is right and either one is wrong. What really frustrated me of this about this scenario is how indecisive Mercedes were and how unclinical they were and how sloppy it all turned out to be. Now, George Russell's suggestion. We saw it working Singapore. Sizuka's a very different track. There are far more overtaking opportunities, a lot more big open straits. So don't be tricky to realistically ensure that Hamilton can be behind to a good degree where he isn't wheel to will to will with Russell because he catches up every DRS straight due to the bag of tire wearing increased traction,

whilst also keeping sights behind both. But in theory, it could work. And you've seen it work at the race before. So I like the idea from Russell. Do think he was trying to be cheeky in the hope that actually it will come around to the last lap. Hamilton's tires might have overheated and he might have dropped back a little bit and Russell could go, it's too late guys, I can't give the position up. I might end up losing it to sight and he ends up finishing where he finishes. And I don't hate that either. You're a racing driver.

You're trying to make it work for yourself. Fine. On the flip side, if you as a team are making the decision to let Hamilton come through, again, I have no problem with this being the option. Just let him go through and get on with it. Don't then go, oh, we feel a bit bad because we want to be everyone's friend. Lewis, come back now, help George. Oh, F1 friends.

Oh, F1 friends. No, let Lewis get on with it at that point. He's got those new tyres. He needs to utilise them. And at one point, before we heard the radio call, the gap was two and a half seconds between Hamilton and Russell, who had still got Carlos Lank's behind because Russell let Hamilton through at the perfect moment at Suzuki,

going into turn one. There was not another proper opportunity to overtake until the hairpin in turn two, in terms of sector two, and most people can't get the move done there unless you have a real big advantage. And then the next opportunity is either spoon curve or 130R. And if you're defending well, which Russell Tengs could do, for the most part, then Hamilton had built up the gap. And you saw that because Hamilton only then dropped back into DRS range for Russell

at the end of 130R going into the Cassio triangle. He lost two and a half seconds in half a lap to give Russell DRS. And by that point, it was too late. Science was right behind him. the traction was so much better, then immediately pressure Hamilton. So I don't care which of these two strategies they go for, but you need to give 100% commitment to one or the other. And it's so, it sounds really harsh.

It's so Ferrari of Mercedes to not be clear and clinical in what they're doing with their drivers and it costs them again. Because realistically, I think Hamilton either shouldn't have had the pressure, or George Russell probably could have gotten away with beating Carlos Sites a day if they played it clever. We don't know it's hypothetical, but go with one or the other. I blame Mercedes for not being clearer,

concise. I don't blame me the Hamilton or Russell for wanting one of the other decisions. Yeah. So obviously from George Russell's perspective, he is going to try and go with the option that benefits him the most. But he did present a very realistic choice,

which of course, as we know, worked last week. As you rightly say, Sam, Suzuki is not the same track as Singapore. There's no guarantee it would have worked in the same way, but it was an option. Their two options here were, option A, secure 16 points for, which is fifth and seventh, but you're not going to get 14 points. So you've kind of secured 16 points, like you know that's going to happen. So that option was realistically letting Hamilton go, George Russell trying to hold off Carlos

signs, but kind of knowing it's not going to work. But at that point, Carlos Sines isn't going to get Lewis Hamilton. So you've secured fifth and seventh. You've secured 16 points. The other option is the George Russell option, which is try your best to hold on to the 18 points that they had available to them, which was fifth and sixth. But there is the risk that signs gets both of them, and they end up with just 14 points. So it's almost like you either go for the safe middle ground of, yes, we're going to get 16, or you go for the riskier option of best case scenario, we get 18, worst case we get 14. That's kind of what they had available to them. And I agree with you, Sam, in that they kind of committed to one, but didn't commit in the right way. As soon as Hamilton gets

past Russell, Russell is not going to be able to stay with him. No chance whatsoever. Or you're going to have to compromise Hamilton's race so much to the point where it's still a risk that Carlos Sines is behind them both. The only reason I think you need to let Hamilton go is if you are then planning to then build that gap so Sines is not a threat to Hamilton anymore. They didn't play it that way. They were trying to be too clever, I think here. They were trying to be too clever to say that, well, if we get Hamilton in front, he's the quicker of the two cars, but he could tow George Russell along. George Russell's tires are so dead at that point that I don't think DRS was ever going to save

him. He just, he doesn't have the tire life left. DRS is very helpful, but only to a certain extent. You still need some life left in your tires, which he did not have. So I think, yeah, I agree. I think both were options, the option they were going with, which was Russell in front of Hamilton, giving Hamilton DRS to defend against signs. I think that would have been a perfectly okay option.

option to try until the end. It wouldn't have been my preference because I think Russell's tires were off off a cliff at that point. And I think with a few laps to go, it might have all come tumbling down. But equally, I'd have been okay with them sticking to that. But yeah, if you're going to let Hamilton go, let him go off into the distance as fast as he can before Sines gets past Russell. Because at that point, there is going to be no fight Sines versus Russell, no matter what you do with Lewis Hamilton. So same with what they did with Charles LeClaire. They let LeCler go into the distance. They sacrifice signs. Fine. But they stuck to it. They're committed to it. Mercedes didn't do the same thing, which I think they should have done. Something we've already discussed today a little bit.

Sergio Perez is retirement. We've seen mistakes creeping in over the last couple of Grand Prix. We didn't actually see the Alex Albin incident from Singapore on TV, which is probably a good thing. a social media special. Before 9pm. Yes. A social media special. Not safe for under 18s to watch anyway. It was that interesting.

Perez has been known throughout his career for his consistency, his race pace, and generally limiting these sorts of errors. Here we've had two races where they're not even, they're not marginal ones. They are pretty blatantly obviously Perez's fault. Why do you think this is happening? This is a really sloppy race from Sergio Perez.

And we've seen historically his wheel to wheel ability is not sensational. It's not his strong point when it comes to racing. Sergio Perez is brilliant. If you can isolate him on a track or by himself and say, Sergio, you just need to keep pumping in consistent laps while managing the tyres. He is a tire wizard when he's all on his own, he's allowed to do his own thing. and a track where he has got to recover all the way from the back to the front

without proper DRS assistance we saw overtaking was hard here has cost him big time because he's panicked and I think the stress of this season the pressure of the performances is the comments weren't right but people like Helmut Marco publicly shunning him are going to start to creep into your mindset

and if he's still committed to being in Formula One long term then he's going this isn't looking good for me at the moment I need to now deliver. And I think he's gone, oh, I've made a mistake. That's not gone well. I need to recover. I've rushed it.

Oh, no, it's gotten worse. I need to now recover again. Oh, no, I've rushed it even more so. And it's just like, it's one of those films where you know that every single time the main character tries to solve something, it just gets worse. You kind of go, oh, of course it has. Why have you bothered to do that? From outside here, from us watching, you go, it's so simple.

Why didn't you just wait for a minute? Why didn't you just overtake, you know, down the straight? or why didn't you utilize the advantage your car has? And I'm sure to Sergio, it really isn't that simple. But when you look at the likes of the Staffman Rangoff to the Giscans, how Norris is driving, how Piasker, who is a rookie is driving, how both Hamilton and Russell are so comfortable, how Carlos Sykes in Singapore was one of the most intelligent things

we've seen in a Formula One car, and yet Sergei Perez can't execute a basic pit stop under the safety car environment, it has to make you ask the questions of what's going on in Surgey. Prez's camp to really think this was shocking. It was not good. Proper, you know, zero out of ten performance. But also, what is giving Red Bull the hope to go, yeah, we'll keep you on again?

Well, we've got the full trusting you to do it again next season. Because if McLaren, Masegis, Ferrari are closer. I'm not sure they will be. But if they are, Sergio Perez has proven already in his career. He hasn't got the ability to bring home both titles for the team when it counts. He's done it in two years where the car is comfortably the best car, and Verstappen hasn't been challenged. I don't believe he does it again next year if the cars are closer.

So why should they keep him on? And I think this performance is essentially the line under the, you know, the incident that says he hasn't got it. He is not a constructors championship level material when it comes down to it. And I think this race says it all. given the dominance that Red Bull have had so far this year Perez for all the questions we raised about his comebacks through the field when they were necessary

about whether he made up enough positions for all of those debates he did what he needed to do in that the car is at such was and is at such a level that scoring solid points as long as Vestappan's winning has been enough So where he does get back to, I don't know, fifth place, fine. Like that was fine for him earlier in the season. And he did generally go about it in a non-risky way, but it made sense to.

And for whatever reason, there seems to be more desperation creeping in. I don't know whether it's desperation or whether it's we've wrapped up the championships now, so I might as well take some more risks when I need to. Either way, it's not the same recoveries that we were seeing earlier in the season. It's not the same approach to overtaking that we saw earlier in the season. It does only take one split second decision in Formula One to see a race completely capitulate. I appreciate that. But it's, I don't know whether it's worrying.

It might just be the time of year and the situations that they're in. but certainly if you're looking at the last two races, it's one of the poorer two race stretches we've seen from a driver in quite a while. And yet, we're being harsh on him. He's had eight podiums in 16 Grand Prix. He's got a 50% rate. Are we, am I being too harsh on him?

I don't know. But I think in that car, when your teammate has won, you know, that many races in a row, it's hard to not be critical. But maybe we are. Maybe we're being overly critical. I don't know, because you have to let us go, folks.

All right, let's take our last break. Sam, what did you make of the penalty? Well, the penalty and the way that it was sorted out post-slash-not-post retirement. Yeah, it was weird, wasn't it? Don't see it a lot. And this showed again that the FIA are really inconsistent with their understanding of their own rules, and they don't seem to implement them properly,

and Red Bulls seem to understand that with the type of penalty that Sergei Perez had, which was a time penalty, it meant that if it wasn't served in the Japanese Grand Prix, which he couldn't because he'd retired, then equate to a five-place grid drop at Qatar, the next Grand Prix, which is interesting because Logan Sargent

had a very similar penalty in Singapore, and he didn't serve it in Singapore, but came to the Japanese Grand Prix, and he never had to serve it, even though he started from the pit lane, he never had to serve it, and he's never been told to serve it even at Qatar, because he still hasn't served it.

But what a lot of people found farcical was that when that decision was understood somewhat, they then said, Sergio, you've been retiring for, what was it, 16 laps at that point? We're going to send you out for one lap, serve the penalty, and bring you back in again.

And a lot of people have gone, that's ridiculous. That's absolutely farcical. Now, I think there's two sides to this story. One is, if the rules are allowing it to happen, then Red Bull are quite ingenious, in making it happen.

And it's a tiny sacrifice next race that they probably have to make a Qatar, but we've seen Sergio Perez is struggling in qualifying anyway. So why not give him every advantage by doing this penalty, and serving it now and mitigating any issue later on?

And at the same time, you think, that's not fair. Sergio Perez has retired from the race after hitting people, breaking the rules, being given penalties, and yet he's allowed to come out and do a lap, serve a penalty, which is of no benefit to anyone

else. It's no punishment to him, really, and he gets away with any punishment later wrong. Now, you might also be, if you're new to Formula One, think, well, I haven't seen anything like this before. Is it normal? Is it common? It's not normal. It's not common. I believe the last time this happened was Felipe Naza at the 2016 Italian Grand Prix, when he had an incident with Jolian Palmer, he was giving a 10 second penalty, retired, came out of retirement, served the 10 second penalty, and went back into the pit lane and retired the car again, stopping him from getting a grip penalty at the next Grand Prix. Now, that shows that there's precedent that this is an okay thing to do. Whether you agree that it should be the rule or not, personally, I don't. I think if you can't

serve your penalty while you are live in the race actively, you should move it on to the next race if that's the rule, then he's done the right thing and they followed the ruling base. But I do think there should be a review of this incident and the way it is served after this Grand Prix, because this can't be a regular thing that can start happening. I'm struggling to know what can be done here. It's an awkward one in the, I don't know whether the way forward is that there is some sort of official declaration of retirement when it comes to a Grand Prix. So certainly as far as I understand it, you are still within your rights, regardless of whether you retired on lap 1 or lap 50 or whatever, you can go back out at any point. You can go back out on the last lap if you wanted

to. As you know, you'll be 50 laps, 60 laps behind the rest of the field, but you can do that. I don't know whether there needs to be some sort of, okay, we're out from this point on. And at that point, you cannot rejoin the race. I don't know whether that solves anything. It's just tough to know what can be done here. It's awkward. because the stewards have to give out the penalty as they see it at the time. So I think, you know, they have to, you know, as soon as the incident happens, it's a time penalty that needs to be applied. You know, can they, you know, I don't know what you can do because you could have them retire.

But then if you say, well, you can't just go back out for a lap and take that penalty that doesn't work, I'm sure what Red Bull would have done is take the penalty and then trundle around really slowly for the rest of Grand Prix, which is not all that risky for them, and they still get to take the penalty. So, or maybe you say, or maybe you start to implement a time limit on these penalties to say that you have a five second time penalty, but it needs to be applied within the next X number of laps. And if it's not, then it's converted to, a bigger penalty or a grid job. It's thinking on the fly here in terms of what the solution is, because it's not, like you say, Sam, it doesn't come up all that often, but it is one where

the rules have been relatively easily bended here. Like, it didn't, well done to Red Bull for thinking of it, but it's also not rocket science. Like, it's right in front of you as a solution. So I honestly don't know what the right way to go about this is. Yeah, I think another concern for me on is if you think your car is damaged beyond the ability to race properly in the Grand Prix, so you've retired the car yourself, to me, there's a safety concern there. That means that you shouldn't be running the car out on the racetrack, right? You as professional engineers have decided, this is, this car isn't working the way it should be doing. We should not be out here circling around much slower than what is capable of. Bring the car in, retire the car, protect the car,

protect the driver. Don't think send it back out onto a live track where everyone's going much faster than you. And in theory, you are carrying some form of damage or some form of issue just to serve this penalty. I just think, I think the rule should be if you retire in a race after X point where you haven't served a penalty, it should be converted to a grid drop for the next race. So, I don't know, it should be, you know, if you get a penalty of lap 15, if you're still in the race 10 laps on or something, then you've had ample chance to serve the penalty and then you retire through something else. Okay.

But if you're, you know, not able to serve the penalty in that time, it then gets converted. I'm not sure, but there needs to be a way of punishing people for breaking the rules and then we're not getting away with it later on on a freebie. Because it's not fair to people like Kevin Magnuson, for example, they've got absolutely spanked up the backside and then was trunding around in the back of the grid for no fault of his own. And I think that's the issue with the competitive side of what's going on here. it feels a bit unfair, unsportsman-like.

So I don't know what the change would be. I like some of your suggestions. We'd love to hear what the people listening think should have happened in this scenario. But I do think that much as much as it was clever, it was a bit farcical. Or the alternative is to say that actually if you pick up a penalty and you can't serve it because you've retired, ultimately that penalty is less than the actual penalty that you've been given, which is retirement. You could say, well, you get a 10 place, sorry, you get a 10 second penalty or five second penalty. If you're unable to serve that because you've retired, it doesn't get converted to a grid drop for the next race.

But actually, you haven't scored any points of this race, which is far more than a five second, 10 second, drive-through, stop and go. All of those penalties are still, in theory, less than actually retiring from a Grand Prix. So maybe that's an option. I don't know. Either way, you're... I don't mind that issue. They do need to clear it up. I think my one gripe with that is, that should only be the case if you've retired

because of the incident that caused that penalty. It shouldn't be, you know, oh, I've taken Kevin Magnussing out, five second time penalty, 30 laps later, I've then retired for a completely different problem. It's like committing a crime of burglary and the police not being able to put you in prison in time and then going, oh, actually,

we're just going to put you in prison for giving someone a big of a slap around the face on a night out. That's 20 days, but the three-year prison sentence is null and void, and you won't get punished for that. You know, it feels like then you're not justifying the penalty for the crime that was committed on track. So this is a big debate, one that maybe we should have at another time. But, yeah, it's just an interesting one

because we don't see this incident very often. Was it your moment of the race? I don't know. It was a weird moment of the race. it. It was a strange moment of the race. Do I have a moment of the race? Of course I do, but what is it? That is the big question. I think I'm going to go with, then this is a very silly one. It's not silly. I think a lot of people don't know it's a get, but the wheel to wheel fight between Liam Lawson and Yuki Sanooga, I thought was really, really brilliant and it lasting for quite a long

time. And that is proper wheel to wheel racing, like fighting it out, great battle between. between teammates. Neither teammate got caused any trouble. And it was, the glimpses that we saw were really, really fun. And I think a lot of people maybe would miss it. So if you didn't go and see it. But yeah, I really enjoyed that wheel to wheel battle. I will go very much on the same lines, but I'll go with another teammate side by side, which was the Mercedes guys through the Cassio triangle, which saw George Russell temporarily get ahead and Lewis Hamilton play it pretty cleverly to then get back ahead again. That felt like that was that was George Russell's chance. Because I think at that point, if he gets through and he makes it stick, this one stop strategy, it all becomes

null and void. I don't think he goes down that route because then at that point he has first, his first dibs on the pit stop. So it was an influential moment, I think, but also we like side by side racing. So a great moment for racing as well. But of course, it is not just us to supplying our moment of the race. We also have plenty that have come in via Discord. We'll get through as many as we can. We have had a lot of submissions again. So thank you very much to anyone who's taken time out of their day to do that. If you'd like to get involved in every review episode, we do these. You've got to be quick. Straight after the Grand Prix we record. So if you get your moment of the race, audio submissions in in our Discord. Link is in the description if you're not there already. And we'll play some out.

Let's start today. Should we go to Texas to start? We're doing a live show then, mate. We should definitely go there. We're doing what? Yeah, I know. If you haven't heard, we're doing a live show, sold out. Damn. Didn't know that.

Anyway, Norm from Texas kicks us off. Oh, hello, my late breaking friends. It is I, Norm from Texas. Coming to you for my birthday weekend. And oh, man, oh man, did we get a beautiful present? And that is my ups and downs for this race. My up, Ferrari, spicy overtakes. Oh my God.

And guess what? Both of them being a menace on the radio. It was great. Downvote for the race? Mercedes Strategy. Mm-mm. Mm-mm. Not working.

Anyway, keep breaking late, guys. A lot of sass there from Norm on his birthday weekend. Yeah, happy birthday weekend, Norm. I'll even forgive you for, again, slightly creative interpretation of what is moment of race, we've gone for ups and downs this time, but yeah, thank you very much, Norm. Let's go on to what is undoubtedly the best name this week, Leclerical Era. Great. Brilliant name.

Unreal name. Hey, boys, Leclerical Error here. Longtime listener, first time submitter. My moment of the race was watching signs pull away after the final Ferrari pit stop and getting to breathe for the first time all race interring potential three-stop strategy. Love the pot and see all in Texas. Bye. Oh, yeah, see you in Texas, Leclericalelers.

I hope we don't have any Clarekolaics in Texas. I mean, if that's the worst we get away with, I'll be happy. Right, let's go to, it's got a Rai guy. Hello, late breakers, this is Rai guy. My mom of the race is whatever happens to Yuki, the hometown here, good, bad or indifferent. It's almost midnight here where I'm at, so it's bedtime for me. I can't stay up for another three to four hours to watch what happens. so I'll watch in the morning when I wake up,

but I love you guys do. Keep on breaking. Keep on, keeping on. Keep breaking late. It's late. It's worth it, I promise. It's late. Bless him.

Just keep on breaking, guys. Keep using your breaks. Hey, it's good advice. It's great advice. Yeah, this was, as much as we complain about an early morning start, this was a tough, tough one for those in the US as well. so appreciate that.

Let's go to Vig and Spiker next. Pointlessly peddling Perez to pit for a poor penalty, preserving position next race. After take five, try saying that five times fast. Lot of peas. The president of the plosives there. Good stuff. It is all good always.

Highlight breaking. Wow, so many moments of the race. even pick. I mean, I blinked and then it became a 15 car race. So, I don't know, my thoughts are kind of scattered, just like how this entire race went. But if I had to pick, I guess, Red Bull winning the Constructors Championship, even though Checo did absolutely nothing. I mean, it's like a school project and he free rides off of Max. Oh. Yes, the team won. Anyways, love you guys on the podcast. Bye.

The sass are all good always. All sass always. Love that. That's great for me. Elpland Sam. Hey guys, Sam here. Moment of the race. Sam here.

Was most definitely Red Bull, I don't know, thinking they were, you know, in 2005, I guess. Sending Perez out and honestly kind of proving again that Red Bull just escaping consequences. You know, Perez last weekend literally did the exact same thing to Albin, no penalty. This time, they sent him back out like 30 laps later, just

to negate the penalty and raise control to nothing about it. It's pretty shady. Also, Oscar Piastropodium. Love. Love. Pretty shady, pretty shaggy, but within the rules.

And, I don't know, she brings up a good point in that we might well be discussing the FIA, admitting that, they got it wrong in terms of Singapore qualifying and a Vastappan penalty. That might come up at some point, I reckon.

Oh dear. Reco Perez. What's up, latebreakers? This is Kick Catastrophe, long time listener, first time smitter. Obviously, moment of the race could go to Reco Perez with his unretirement, but I think

it's the anime-esque battle between signs and the Mercedes. where signs admitted that the Mercedes were using his own trick against him. I think that was just damn cool. It's a trap. Yeah, just like a silent nod of respect. Like, yeah, I played that last week. Is that, is that Sykes realizing that he's smarter than the entire Mercedes garage?

Maybe. Maybe so. Let's go to, we've got real dad on the submission. I don't know if it is just real dad. Might be James, but maybe it is just real dad. Let's find out. Morning guys, real dad here with no James, unfortunately, moment of the race. Checo Perry is basically thinking he's playing dodgums at Clacton Pier. Checo, what are you doing?

You are basically putting your position under fret. Liam Lawson or all these other drivers waiting in the wings. Just, yeah, carnage. Anyway, over and out from me, have a great Sunday and keep breaking late. Wow, that is heart. back to my childhood, Clacting on sea. I once went camping in Clacting on Sea because I grew up in Essex,

which is where Clactin is. And the Dodgers on the pier, cricky, that is a real slam dunking salt on Sergio. Yeah, if you've ever been there, you know it's an insult. Turn around and go back. And lastly, beef is tired. Hello. I'm a tired lady.

My moment of the race Oh God. Was. Checo. Okay, bye. Great. She's also got on at Donald's breakfast. So that might be the worst submission she's ever done.

My moment of the race. Use your words, beef. That was like one syllable. Yeah. Somehow. 15 seconds of one syllable. Yeah. Right.

That is the last. one. Thank you very much for everyone who's submitted. And again, you can get involved in these. Just make sure you join the Discord if you're not in there already. And we'll ask for some more when we come back for the Qatar Grand Prix. No race next weekend, but we are back with another episode midweek, of course, where I think it's all three of us, which is cool. But Sam, if you wouldn't mind, getting us out of here. Yeah, the rare three podcast hosts will once again be back, despite this being literally our love and joy. Thanks for listening. I hope you enjoy the Japanese Grand Prix. We will be back mid-week to talk all things general Formula One,

who is not a member of your military, I'm sure. All the links to the description of all the things you might need. So yeah, Discord. Patreon's there if you want two extra episodes. Everything on Patreon is ad-free as well if you're a subscriber. You also get beer with breaking every single month if you're a top tier and your own special birthday shout-out, which we will be doing in that midweek episode for you September birthdays. We will remember, I promise. We're also social media, it's late-breaking F1. We're also on you. YouTube, Late Breaking F1, so you can get subscribed over there. If you want to and see us in video format, a lot of people commenting that we look

nothing like what people think we should look like. So maybe do a drawing of what you think we should look like when you do see us and then compare the two. That would be funny. I think that's it for now. Harry says he loves you all and he promises he will be back. And to all Sergio Perez Fags, I'm sorry that it's been a tough time. It'll bounce back.

In the meantime, I've been Samuel Sage. My apologies. Before we go. Very quickly. Bold predictions went horribly. Sam said Ferrari was going to win. They did not win. Harry said there was going to be a podium for Ocon. He did not get a podium. And I said there'd be two temps separating the top five in qualifying. Vestappan had one of its most dominant qualifying sessions of the season. Nort out of three. Abacuses don't move. I've been Ben Hocking. And remember, keep breaking late. I hate bold predictions. This podcast is part of the Sports Social Podcast Network.

I think.