The Late Braking F1 Podcast - Alpine or Aston? Which 'new' team will fair better in 2021? | Episode 99

Episode Date: January 20, 2021

The LB trio discuss the two 'new' teams on the grid, and their prospects in 2021, Lewis Hamilton's Mercedes contract, and play another game of F1: Guess The Year...Make sure to SUBSCRIBE! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This podcast is part of the Sports Social Podcast Network. Thank you for listening to the Late Breaking F1 podcast. Make sure to look out for new episodes every Thursday and Grand Prix Sundays. Hello and a very warm welcome to the Late Breaking Formula One podcast. My name is Ben Hocking, Sam Sage and Harry Ead alongside me as ever. And if you notice anything different about this episode, it's because we can actually see each other. Usually, even though you'll only be hearing the audio of this,

We don't actually get to see each other when we're recording this, but we've changed things up a little bit, so I can see both of their beautiful faces. I immediately regret this decision. Yeah, this is worse. Why have we done this? The voices were bad enough, let alone seeing you. The podcast list is a lucky, really.

They are blessed. Hashtag blessed, LH44. And of course, Lewis Hamilton hasn't yet moved to DTM, but we will be out with a special podcast episode if that does happen in the coming days. But there are actually a few things we're going to talk about other than that, which are Frederick Vestey joins Mercedes in their junior program, our reaction to that news. Is there any merit to putting George Russell in the Mercedes

over Lewis Hamilton? Something of a cost saving, but would it be worth it from Mercedes perspective to give up on someone such as Lewis Hamilton, who isn't too bad, all things considered? But first of all, we are going to be looking at two quote-on-quote new teams in Formula One in 2021. They are adapted versions of previous versions. Alpine, of course, taking the place of Renault, and Aston Martin have replaced racing points. So we've got two new teams going in slightly new directions. Sam, do you think that one of them has the advantage, not only heading into 2021, but looking at the next few years? Yes and no, really. It's one of those things about, you know, you can't predict the future, you don't really know what's going to happen. There's a lot of circumstances that are changing.

Reno into Alpine is interesting because not only are they changing their brand essentially They've lost Cyril A beatable Have I said that correctly? No meatful's enough A beatball Sorry Cyril

I just call you Cyril No big googlingames Anyway they've lost Cyril And I'm a bit shocked at the loss of Cyril To me Cyril wasn't doing a bad job Cyril had a bad season at one point But was slowly bringing the rise of Reno

back up again. They had pretty much my end of the season become, I'd say, the third fourth best side. They were fighting out with racing point, ironically, who are now becoming Ashton Martin, because Ferrari had that demise. And they felt stronger. Daniel Ricardo really started bagging some great performances. Ocon got a lot stronger towards the end of the season.

He led the negotiations for Fernando Alonkso, which I think is a great signing for maybe one or two seasons. I hope he brings it back in the form that we've seen him in. Everyone loves a bit of Fernando Alonso on the grid. So it's going to be spicy. and I think he was doing a good job. He brought a good atmosphere to Renault, I think.

So I was pretty shocked. I don't know if it's just because Alping is technically another arm of Renault, so they wanted that new branding, and so I guess there's a relationship there. But it's a shame, I think. And because of that, I have a little bit more faith and security in the Aston Martin outfit. The Aston Martin outfit, of course, goes back a long way.

So many teams have been part of this team. You know, they've got people who go back to that team when they were all the way back in the other 2000s, they were Jordan, right, a long, long time ago? And there's still people there from that time. And they haven't really changed too much management. Of course, the ownership has changed, but that just gives them more money,

which is fantastic for them. They've got Sebastian Vessel coming in, obviously, Los Perez, which is an odd swap. If Vessel turns up and is the vessel we know he can be, I have faith that Aston Martin, once raising your point, could be a real threat in that midfield

to pushing on to being one of the better team, If Vessel is on the beach, as he was maybe at the end of that Ferrari season, I think they're going to struggle, because Lank Stroll is still not the capability that I think he could be. He definitely couldn't match Perez, and if you couldn't match Perez, what's going to say he's going to match Vettel? But I think with the backing, the consistency, and what the Jordan to whatever, to whatever, to racing points, and now Aston Martin have been through previously gives them a bit of a hardship, gives them a bit of a shell that they can push through some difficult stuff and adapt.

So I have more faith that Astor Martin are going to turn this into something successful over Renegov now becoming Alpine. What do you reckon, Harry? Do you have more confidence in one of those two teams? It's tricky to say. I mean, you've based it off 2020. You know, you'd say the racing point, Asty Martin team are going to be, you know,

heading to 2021. With similar regulations, there's a few changes to downforce around the floor and stuff. But apart from that, we're basically relaunching the top. 20 cars with a new lick of paint effectively. So if you base it on 2020,

racing point should, sorry, Aston Martin should be the quicker team for 2021. Then then you get 2022 in it and it all changes again and you know we've said before that all changes can really shake up the field and you know, particularly in the midfield.

So I think it's hard to say and I agree with Sam there's there's a lot behind the Aston Martin outfit now in terms of backing of Lawrence Stroll they've got new facilities coming which will be ready by next year at Silverstone but then at the same time you know Alpine have got the mitre renau effectively behind them I know they're not Renault anymore but they are still Renae basically and they've had a lot of investment too I was again shocked like Sam said shocked to the loss of Cyril but

he has been there for a little while I guess and they want to shake up with it with the new brand. I mean, with any midfield battle, it's going to be super tight, I think. And, you know, Chuck McLaren in there as well. Yeah, I wouldn't want to bet either way, to be honest. I think 2021, I'd place my bets on Astor Martin. 22 onwards, I think it's, I think it's anyone's game, really. I think in terms of performance, if you were to look at 2020, of course, they finished

fourth and fifth in the championship. And there wasn't a great deal in it between them in terms of points. you do have to take into consideration a few factors that hindered the racing point team as they were. Obviously, Stroll missed one race, Perez missed two races. And whilst Tolkimer did a solid job in replacing both of those guys, it's still losing your main drivers for three Grand Prix combined. And I mean, the other thing to consider as well is that they essentially finished 15 points ahead of where they actually finished because of the penalty that they got. Not to say that the penalty wasn't fair or unfair or get into that debate, but ultimately in terms of pure performance,

they were slightly ahead of what their overall points tally showed. However, Renaud didn't start 2020 very well. They didn't have a very good first three or four races. Not quite sure what the points tally is if you take everything after that point, but I think by the end of the season, there was very little to choose between those two teams. And Sam made a good point that Ocon got better as the year went on.

And Ricardo, his couple of podium, sort of showed up towards the end of the year, as well. So I think Renault were in a pretty good spot by the end of that year and where there wasn't really much between the two teams. My view going into 2021 is this is really going to be driver dependent because all four drivers in those two teams have question marks as to how good they're going to be. I feel as if you've got a team like Mercedes, you generally know what you're going to get with Lewis Hamilton and you know what you're going to get with Alphi Bottas. you might get the upper end or the lower end of their abilities, but you kind of know the range in which they're in.

With these four drivers, I really think that it can go one way or the other quite drastically. If Fernando Alonzo is coming back after a few years, if he returns to the power that he once was, he's going to be an excellent driver. If he does something similar to Michael Schumacher and he returns after an absence and isn't the driver he once was,

I mean, that's a pretty massive gap. Esteban Ocon gave him a bit of a free pass in 2020 after sitting out the 2019 season. Does he kick on? Does he show signs of where he was at Force India back in 2017 and 18? Who knows? Again, another question mark. And then you look at the Astor Martin, guys,

Sebastian Vettel, perhaps the biggest question mark of the lot, we get to find out this season. Was it Ferrari? Was it the atmosphere there? Was it his lack of motivation? Or is Sebastian Vettel not quick enough at the moment? The answer to that question, again, is going to depend where he ends up.

up and Lance Stroll, can he kick on? He's still pretty young. He did make strides last season, I think, maybe not enough, but he's making strides. Does he continue that? Or has he met where he's going to end up ultimately as he reached his potential already? So you've got four drivers there where it's really unknown exactly how good they will be. From a more organizational standpoint, Racing Point slash Aston Martin, I mean, Racing Point and all of their previous of that team. They have been brilliant in terms of being, for me, the pound for pound best team in Formula One. Like they utilise what they've got, which isn't much compared to the top teams. They utilise it so well. With this added investment, they need to ensure that that doesn't go.

They need to remain efficient, even with this added investment. Any additional millions that get added onto their budget need to be found in points added to their points tally. It can't. It needs to correlate. But that gives me more faith in Aston Martin that they can do that and that Renaud is kind of the opposite in that they seem to always shoot themselves at the foot. Remember, I mean, they're getting back into a better position now, but essentially they're just getting back to the same position they were in in 2019. They're not any further on them where they were. I remember when Renault had this master plan to return to the top of Formula One. They're not there yet, and they're no closer to that than they were a couple of years ago.

So another thing that concerns me a little bit about Alpine is what they're doing structurally because you make the point that Cyril's not there anymore. And I think that came as a bit of a surprise. I know there had been rumblings that Cyril might be moving into a slightly more off Formula 1 role and might divide his time or somewhat. Seems as if he's completely gone. And who replaces him? I know when they've got Brivio in and whether he's technically filling the role of

Freddie Vassur that was. vacated like four years ago. Does he fill into that role? Does he become the de facto team principal? Where does Martin Budkowski? Where does he play into this? I don't know if they know structurally how that team's going to work. If you look at say McClara and a couple of years ago, they had a massive overhaul and they got the best people in the best positions and it worked for them. And it might work for Alpine as well. But at the moment, it's a bit of an uncertainty for me. Well, we all know that they're both being well Williams in 2021, because, because that's how it works.

Mo Danforce is life. So Williams are going to come to life now and they will win. I reckon at least 21 of the 23 Grand Prix. Wow. Wow. I mean, it's a conservative opinion, Matt. I don't know about that. Which actually leads us quite nicely

onto our next topic, which might not even matter because based on what Sam's saying, I think George Russell is going to actually stay at Williams even if he is off for the Mercedes Drive, considering how good they're going to be. You know, still no contract between Hamilton and Mercedes. Obvious reason for that is Hamilton's going to DTM, but we'll leave that to one side.

Get on board, people. It's happening. Down to Maracas. So, I mean, let's face it, if Russell's in that car, it is significantly cheaper for Mercedes, and you could make the argument that if Hamilton is not in the car in the last couple of years, It's Bottas who wins the driver's championship. So, Sam, do you think there's any merit whatsoever for them going ahead with this move?

I mean, it's Bottas that wins the driver's championship until it isn't Bottas that wins the driver's championship, because he didn't finish second at one point. Didn't finish second last year. Well, not the last year I mean, because Maxis for Staffen finished second in 2019. And I think the year before he didn't finish second, really, when he didn't win a single race all season. So, Bottas is not as good pound for pound as what you'd expect. Russell turns up for one race and puts one of the best ever takes

to the whole season of Bautry Bostas who knows that car back to front and knows that team back to front who understands everything about it and Russell who gets one race weekend of expertise delivers an astonishing result and it's only shafted by

his own team's downfall which is ironically when I was saying is worse performances as a team it has to happen when Lewis Hamilton isn't there maybe that's just the luck that Hamilton has the luck and skill combined

that makes you a seven-time time world champion, of course. Lewis Hamilton, for me, is irreplaceable. That's like saying in 2004, do you replace Michael Schumacher with, you know, Yarno Trulley? Yes, yes, he did. The answer is it's Michael Schumacher, right?

And Michael Schumacher gets to do it, Michael Schumacher once at that point. And I think it's very much the same here and now. If Hamilton turns up and goes, I still want to do this, you know I've got that ability, I've just won another championship, I've got a two-year deal, please.

And they give it to him, why would you not take it? And I think realistically, if Hamilton does sign a say a two-year deal, then I think Botas, I think this is his last season in Mercedes because otherwise they lose George Russell, I think. I think George Russell starts to look for a seat elsewhere

because you can't be stuck at Williams at the back for another two, three years. He is a talent that will go to waste and he deserves to prove it. So I think that Toto will go, see you later, Valtry. Thanks for your time. We'll bring on Russell to partner Hamilton for a couple of years

and then we'll look at maybe making another change in two to three years time will go big, we'll buy another drivering. People like Gazley at that point, I think we'll be looking for a drive because he won't be moving up to the Red Ball team anymore, I don't think. People have rumoured that Gassie will go to Renault, wearing Ocong or an honso move on. So, an option. So I think that Russell cannot replace Hamilton.

I think that Russell could definitely replace Bottas, and it could be a great learning curve for Russell. And if Russell turns around and beats Hamilton, what a moment that is. So for me, if Hamilton goes on my contract, you give Lewis Hamilton a contract. But if Hamilton does take that contract, you've got to keep Russell on the ball, because Russell is a phenomenal talent

and will be your next Lewis Hamilton in three, four, five years time where he's really got himself up to speed. Any merit to those saying that Russell should go in the car, Harry? I read a quite interesting article on race fans the other day about the stall in the stalls in Hamilton

and Mercedes talks. and they did note that there's a number of things it's basically money I think and Mercedes not wanting to give as much as I think perhaps Hamilton wants slash deserves as a seven times world champion but also the George Russell factor

his race in in Bahrain has kind of made things a slightly more difficult for him now I'm not I'm not saying if everything was contractually everything is fine Mercedes aren't going to pick George Russell over Louis Hamilton.

That's nuts. You pick Louis Hamilton, obviously, don't you? But, you know, the longer this does drag on, I think there will be, they'll come to some arrangement at some point before, you know, pre-season testing. Before their car launch, I imagine, they probably went in there for that.

But, yeah, the longer this drags on, you've got to think, there must be people who are starting to think, well, maybe we should go the other way. I'm not saying they're right, I'm just saying I think you know it could happen

you know back in the day I know it's a slightly different situation but we've seen drivers at S&Center back at McLaren he didn't really want to drive from McLaren it's a different situation he wants to go to Williams but it has happened where you know a driver

faces the reality that he might not be driving for a team because it can't come to an agreement and it doesn't matter how to how good you are, you might not come to that agreement. So it's, I think it's a possibility. I'm not

saying it now, please don't quote me. Harry said George Russell's going to replace it at Salmilton because everyone will lynch me. Quote it. If everything is equal, you know, everything is right in the world and they have a fair choice between Russell and Hamilton, you're picking

Hamilton. I think there's a lot of extenuating circumstances happening at the moment. And, you know, this is, this is bizarre. It's like Sam said at the end of 2004, Schumacher hasn't signed the contract. He's just won championship number seven. It's just like, it's actually quite a weird situation. It's kind of been bubbling along the background, but this is a very strange situation. He's, you know, one of, if not the most successful driver, driver is in a informal one. And he still doesn't sign a contract. This is a bit strange.

I think this is just the late breaking curse rearing his head again where he will actually be confirmed five minutes after this goes live. He's waiting for it, I reckon. I reckon he is. Yeah, he's timing it perfectly. First of all, I can understand the thought pattern of those who think that Russell should be in the car rather than Hamilton. Because on the surface, I get where they're coming from in that, you know,

Russell is Mercedes future in the same way that Leclair is Ferrari's future and in the same way that Vastappen is Red Bull's current and future. you know, Vestappan and LeClaire are all of every race that goes by, they are gaining more and more experience in those cars, whereas Russell is basically being sat in another sport with Williams if they're that slow. And he's not gaining the valuable experience that those two drivers are. And Mercedes aren't going to want to be in a position where they feel trapped. And in a few years' time, they have to go up against Vostappan and Leclair,

who are much more seasoned than maybe Russell would be. at that point. So I get the logic from that front. I also understand Russell would be a lot lot cheaper. And I also get, if you were to look at it on the surface of it, you know, if, if Hamilton isn't there last season, Bottas finishes second, Bottas wins the title. Same thing happens in 2019. So I get that that logic that, well, if Hamilton isn't there, they'd still win the championship. The problem is with all of that. And I'll start with the, I'll start with the money, actually, first of all, because Lewis Hamilton is going to want a lot of a lot of dollar and I think he's worth every penny of it from their perspective. Bear in mind as well, this isn't, this isn't a robot driving a car. This isn't a

personality void, someone who doesn't do well in the press. This is not that guy. Lewis Hamilton is worth much more than what they are going to pay him, potentially through the marketing alone. Like the amount of publicity Mercedes gets, Mercedes and Hamilton, being attached to each other's brand is great for Mercedes. Think of Tommy Hill figure. Would they be on the Mercedes car without Lewis Hamilton's influence? Possibly not. So there are reasons outside of his excellent driving ability that make up some of what Hamilton is going to want to be paid here.

From a pure driving standpoint, you know, look, Hamilton's got to be in the car. I don't care that he's five times, ten times more expensive than George Russell. And I do believe that George Russell's got a hell of a future in Formula One and he might well go on to win championships. But Hamilton has shown no signs of regression yet. He is still at the top of his game. And yes, it might not matter in a season where Mercedes are so dominant that a second driver can come in like Russell or Bottas and win a championship. But cast your mind back to a season where that isn't the case.

Castamize back to 2018. You know, Bottas doesn't win the championship there. 2017 when Ferrari have a good car, Vetta wins the championship if Hamilton isn't there. It's those sorts of seasons in the biggest moments where Hamilton comes out to play. That's where Hamilton's greatness is a factor. Maybe you do get a season like 2020 where you can get away with a slightly less than optimal lineup, but you might not. And that's not a risk you want to take if you're Mercedes. They haven't got in that position by taking senseless risks.

So, yeah, you get Hamilton. Maybe you have to do a bit of negotiation to get there. Sure thing. But he's in that car. He has to be. I mean, if you're following him on social media, which I'm sure many of you are in the Formula One world, if you do have social media,

he looks like he's fully geared up to take part in a Formula One season. He's training. He's going out on runs. He's talking about it on his posts, his captions, his stories, as if, you know, I'm ready. I'm getting my body prepared. I'm still recovering from the COVID, and I want to get going.

So he seems fully geared up to go racing again, unless there's something weird going on the background that we're unaware of, that there's maybe another class involved of racing, but it doesn't feel like that would ever be the case. So, by all intents of purposes, he walks to be Formula One. And the same is he's the only team he'll be joining.

So I've been pretty shocked if he's not in that car. I think he'd be willing to take a cut if it, if Mercedes hold out long enough, you know. And I mean, just to sort of add to the Schumacher 2004 Hamilton 2021 comparison here, one thing that does differ between their circumstances is that Schumacher had just won a seventh title. But going into 2005, Ferrari were nowhere near the force that they were in 04. I say that, Bridgestone weren't the force that they were in 04. The Bridgestone tires were so awful that season.

The only race Schumacher or Barracello won that year was a race. in which six drivers took part in. Whereas, theoretically, 2021, there's no reason to believe that Mercedes won't be just as dominant as they were in 2020. So, 2021 is a golden opportunity for Hamilton's win an eighth championship, whereas 2005 wasn't necessarily a golden opportunity for Schumacher to win his eighth championship. But other than that, I think you're right in terms of how much the two situations mirror each other. We'll move on to a driver that does know how the Mercedes-Pens work,

because he has signed a contract with the team. And that's Frederick Vestey, who has joined as part of the Mercedes Junior team. 19-year-old from Denmark is going to be competing in Formula 3 for the second year. He finished fourth in that same championship last year. The Mercedes Junior team doesn't generally get as much publicity as the other one, such as Ferrari and Red Bull. but Harry do you think that this is a good move to sign someone in and around that F3 area? Yeah, I think it's a good call.

I don't know a huge amount about Frederick. Sorry, Frederick. Big Fred. Sorry, so, Fred, mate. You know, I have had a quick scan of his junior career and it's varied, should we say. But, yeah, I think it's a sensible move to assign someone slightly lowered. down in F3 and then use that opportunity to build them up. Don't do a red ball and have another junior driver knocking at your door

when you've got, when you're too full, when your teams are too full. And Mercedes, realistically, I mean, they have Williams basically, which I think will become its B team. But, yeah, they've already got an issue with George Russell. They don't want to create another headache with someone else. So yeah, I think it's a sensible move. Yeah, he might still be, you know, become ready too soon for them. But I guess that's a headache for future Toto.

So he's not worrying about that now. Yeah, yeah, good move around. I don't have a huge amount of sake because, like I said, don't we know much about Fred, but I'm willing to learn. It's a great attitude to have. Yeah. Love it. I mean, Sam, in terms of,

what the Mercedes junior team is, as I say, the Red Bull team and the Ferrari team seem to have loads of drivers in at the same time. The Mercedes team seems to be a lot, a lot slimmer. They don't have as many drivers. Do you think that will benefit Vesti long term? I think it will benefit both Bessi and Mercedes. Should he get to the Mercedes team, of course, there's no guaranteeing that just because you are a junior driver for a team, you do have that ability long term to put yourself in what is currently the most successful team of all time. Um, The interesting thing, first, about Bestie Bang Otis, and as you pointed out at the start of your intro of the topic,

is that he's 19 years old. If it was like Mercedes are willing to steer away from what feels like the current trend of bringing in drivers at a very young age. Red Ball have definitely led this. Of course, we saw how early Gestappan came in. Science was very young. Riccardo was very young when he came in. Sonoda is not very old either.

You know, there's a lot of youngsters that go through that Red Bull drive. and a lot of them, all of them, apart from Max Verstaffling in their eyes, turn out to not be good enough. They tell them to not have developed in the time that they wanted them to, and it causes them a longer headache, so they lose a longer,

good drivers very early on. You give Almond an extra year, you give Gassi an extra couple of years, you give Sonoda maybe, an extra couple of years. They could be ready to go. They could be up and running. The staff is a generational talent.

The other guys are just considered, sorry, it's not talking about the headphones, folks, there we go, I'm back. The other guys are considered to be good drivers. They're not considered to be, you know, world beaters like the Staphanis. Ferrari are doing something similar. You know, they brought up the club very quickly. They had to dispatch a betel because it was causing friction. So we've seen negative ramifications of that. They then had to bring

science on board, which is not ideal, wasn't the smoothest. And how they've got Schumacher coming up, which is one of many Ferrari drivers. We've seen the sacrifice of I lot. He probably won't get into Formula One full time. Giovannazzi's not looking great either anymore. So the same to do things differently. They are taking their time. They've scrimmed at their numbers. they are very much a streamlined outfit in comparison to the others, which are quite bloated with junior drivers that maybe don't have the potential that they need. Vessi comes from what I feel like is, again, like Carrie, don't know too much about Frederick Vesti,

but it comes with quite a wealthy background as most of these guys do. That could bring in some sponsorship or some backups should they need it. The guy, I think, I'm literally reading it here to remind myself, the Eagle Championship of the Formula Regional European Championship. That's positive. that's good to see. He's got a couple of wings under his belt in formulas. Let's see how he does an F3.

I think he's going to be entering F1 a little bit late, though. If he wings F3 goes into F2, wings F2, okay, you might enter F1 at 21 years old. Acceptable. That's good, fine. But if he doesn't, if he takes two years in F3, as Schumack has done, takes two years in F2, as Schumach has done,

is going to be bordering 23, 24 years older. Then you're looking at people like Niphi, who is doing well in Formula 1, I think better than people expected. But Nipatifi's never going to go on to be a Mercedes race-winging driver. And maybe that's what Masegis is hoping for, Vesky. You never know, Latifi is, of course, the greatest driver of all time to be seen.

So I like it. I think it's a good move. I think that some things have got afford to place for them to really make it work. But it's good that I think they're keeping their options open as well. I think there's a lot of youngsters that are available that are very promising, that are not signed to a young driver program just yet. But good for Vestey. He's signed on to the most successful team currently in Formula One,

so you can't really complain at that. Yeah, I mean, for me, it's a really difficult one. So I think him being part of the Mercedes junior team is actually a good thing. Mercedes overall have had seven drivers in their junior team ever. Ferrari have got nine at the moment. Mercedes are very much focused on a smaller number, and it works. It resonates up to their main team as well. I'll look at Hamilton. Since they rejoined Formula One in 2010, they've had four drivers. That's it.

You know, they've had Schumacher Rosberg and they've eventually been placed by Hamilton and Bottas. And that's all they've done. They have been a model of consistency in that respect. And that resonates throughout the junior team as well. They focus their talent. They focus on a few of their guys. They've got a few guys that are in sort of carting and lower formulae than Formula 3 at the moment. But if you were to look at the three drivers who are, who have gone through their program and have been, and are old enough to have been to F1. All three of those drivers have been in F1. So George Russell, Esteban Ockon, and Pascal Verlijn. They're the three drivers that have been in their junior team

that have been old enough to have gone through F1, and they all have. So that is a pretty good sign for Frederick Vestey, if you can follow that pattern through. For me, in terms of visibility, the jury's still out. It's a bit of a mix. A bit of a mix. you make a good point that he won Formula Regional European Championship in 2019.

It was a bit of a shortened field that year. It was just after the split between European F3 and GP3. So, sorry, it was just when they came together, and that was the other championship that came out of it. So I think there were only about seven or eight full-time drivers that year, so it might not be completely representative of a full championship win at F3. level. Last year he finishes fourth in Formula 3, which I think is a pretty good effort. The one problem is that he was part of Pramer, who seemed to, for whatever reason, have such a dominance at

that level that pretty much anyone who goes in their car, it works for. They had that dominance when it was Eurof3 as well. It seemed to translate as soon as they went into F3 as well. So their drivers who would have been Schwarzen, Armstrong and Derruvilla in 2019. They finished the first, second and third in the championship. And last season,

they had himself, Oscar Piastri and Logan Sargent, and they finished first, second, and fourth in the championship. So no Primer Driver in the last two years has actually finished worse than where Vestey finished, which on the service of it,

you know, you look at fourth place, and that's pretty good going. You know that, then maybe it doesn't, doesn't look quite as good. And maybe might explain why he's not moving up to F2 this year and why instead he's doing another year at F3. I think he has to win the championship this year, very least second place to then prove

himself to go up to F2. We'll see how it works. Like I say, he's got a pretty good thing to work with Mercedes. We know how successful some of their other drivers have been. Of course, none of them have made it to Mercedes themselves, but they have made it to F3. one, which I don't think is anything to be sniffed at. So it's going to be up to him. Can he perform?

Can he not? Who knows? I think that's interesting, isn't it? I think that might be the Lewis Hamilton factor, that a lot of drivers get into Formula One, but they obviously can't take that final step to the Sengees because there is quite literally a Lewis Hamilton-shaped wall blocking you from taking a seat.

And when Botas compliments Hamilton so well, it does feel silly to risk that partnership for a multiple championship-winning partnership. Well, yeah, he just says nice things about him. That's very true. You have great shoes, Lewis. Nice one, Bono. He picked them out for him, obviously. But, I mean, just to reiterate that point,

it's like four drivers for Mercedes since 2010. Red Bull have had four since 2018. Oh, that's bad. And then Macado, Stapp and Albin and Gansley. I mean, they've got five this year. So they are one ahead in four years. compared to what Mercedes have done in over a decade. So I think consistency has been a real important part of their success.

Interesting. Interesting what you guys think listening as well. Yeah, absolutely. Let us know as we move on to our final topic of today. It is F1, Guess the Year. Jingle, Please, Harry. It's F1, Guess the Year! Thank you very much.

So, Guess the Year. We've played this one a few times before. it's Harry versus Sam to prove who is the least stupid. Sorry. You'll get a nice introduction, like one every five podcast or something like that. So I have got three facts about a certain year in Formula One history. They will take it in turns. I'll say the facts and they'll just tell me what the year was.

So, Harry, I think on our last game, I can't remember if we've played a game since, but you managed to lose quite early on. so don't lose this time is all my words sage advice would be um don't give him sage advice that's well yeah that's that's not a good idea at all harry please pick a number between one and six five number four it's a bad one all right number five oh my god okay here are the free facts about this year 46 drivers competed in the championship Oh, God. That could be a record.

It's the last season that Miquela Albreto competed in. Well, there's your clue. And Schumacher was disqualified from two races this season, and he was banned from two more. Oh, that is you, you can't. What? Shoemaker? They can say what won.

What? Mick. David Schumacher, actually. David, yeah. I didn't know Macaulio Alborosso and Schumacher raced in a year together famously

Yeah Interesting It's common knowledge I learned that at preschool actually He was what banned from two races He was banned from two races And he was disqualified from two races What a cheeky boy

Cheeky boy Well I can only think I don't know 1994. It's right. Yeah, it's 94. McKeeley Arboretto is racing in 1994? Yeah, he just about, he was hanging on, really, in the early 90s, but he was, yeah, he was still there.

I mean, 46 drivers were in the championship. I think they probably got, you know, Jackie Stewart to race in that. You're saying, all the way from 1956. Yeah. But yes, it was, 1994. Schumacher's first championship winning season. So, one point for Harry Yee. Sam, pick a number between one and six that isn't five.

I'll have five, I'll go, okay. 46 drivers. Sorry, Sam. Number two. Okay. No British constructor won a race, and that was the first time this happened since 1956. Not, 1956, okay.

Okay, yeah, that's a clue. A British driver won a race for the first time in three years. And Giancarlo Fizzacella won a race. And Giancarlo Fisichello won a race. That's the big giveaway. When did Jan Carlo Fisichella race? Cashin number four, please. Um,

um, so Fisichella's there, so it can't be really any earlier than like 95. He's not, he's not one many, I don't think, is he? No, he's not one too many, has on Fizzy. He's been, too many. busy defensive thing,

eh? Fizzy, Fizzy, Fizzy, Fizzy, Fizzy. I'm going to go

with 2004. It's not right, I'm afraid. Harry, any

ideas? I hate this game. 2003? No, it was 2006. So,

Jensen Button, won a race obviously for the first time. The first time a Brit won since over three when David Coultharham won. And McLaren didn't win a race that year, so

no British constructive. That was my I was trying to work out which year it was that McLaren hadn't won the race. Yeah. So 1-0 it stays. Harry, 1-3-4 or 6. 4. Please. Number 4. Sebastian Vettel wins the

Australian Grand Prix in this season. I've done that every single year. Yeah, that's... Exactly. Not much for clear, isn't it? Two Brits stand in for a Grand Prix, for a single Grand Prix. And the top two in the championship

were not from the same team. Oh. 2017. That's what I said. 2017. Damn it. Pulled a rest of the Jensen button. Yeah. Standing in.

Vettel, of course, finished second in championship rather than Bottas and Vettel won the Australian Grand Prix that year. So it's another point for you, Harry. Sam, can you get one on the board? One three or six. I'll have number six. Number six. Alam Prost has his second and final winless season.

Mika Hakenen debuts in F1. Nelson P.K. wins his last race. And if you really needed the clue, I mean Nelson Peky's you. Oh, okay. Thank God, because I was thinking kind of,

you know, a few decades ago. Yeah. Oh, it's the hacking and debuting.

Most overrated driving F1. Oh, there's no time for that. We're at nearly at the end of an episode,

Sam. It's not the, it's not in F, no, okay, I'm going to laugh folks. Please don't

link to me. I'm going to go with 1996. I'm afraid that's not right. God damn it! How are you? 92. Oh, it's close.

It's a good guess. 91. Oh, I was miles away that time. So, Alan Prost had a bit of a nightmare year at Ferrari that year. Mika Hakenen debuted for Lotus, and Nelson P.K. won the Canadian Grand Prix, which was his last, Steph one win. Oh, I'm embarrassing myself.

Very embarrassing. Very embarrassing. Number one or number three, Harry? Number one, please. All right, number one. Max Verstappen was born. It was the last year before V-10s were re-introduced. They were introduced.

And Gerhard Berger has his final left one race. I've definitely picked the bad numbers this time around. I think, yeah. 1997? It is 1997. he's got an absolute clean sweep. You know all back to Westapen? Is that one?

The Stapin is so young. Yeah, that's painful. And he's so young, considering he has like six years of experience left one. Okay, that leaves you, Sam, with number three. Hit me up. I got to do some deep thinking. In this year, team orders a band. A driver takes 14 pole positions in a season,

which matches the record. from Nigel Mansell. And Felipe Massa becomes the first Ferrari driver since 1992 to fail to finish on a podium all year. Oh! I didn't know. Massa had a

podium-less Ferrari season. Is it 2011? It is 2011. It's going right! I'm happy with that. Cheers. Seb Vessel was on one in qualifying that year, and Massa wasn't on one that year. Felipe, baby.

Well done, though, Harry. Yeah, Harry, you smash me there. If you'd like to smash me later, then just give me a ring. Well, it's not appropriate content. I wouldn't wait up, Sam. And if you viewers and listeners would like to go on that off a day and then, play the jingle. XF1 gets the year.

Yeah, we are getting out of here before Sam says anything. Thank you very much. much for joining this episode. Episode 99, I should mention, which, if my maths is correct, next week is going to be episode 100. How have we got to this point? Answers on a postcard, please. Until next time, if you wouldn't mind getting us out of here, though, Sam. I don't know who has postcards anymore, so don't bother send in those things asked for. But yeah, join us for episode 100. We've got the big 100 this time next week. If you have enjoyed it, follow, download, whatever you call it these days.

If you don't want to do that, don't. But we appreciate you sticking around. If you've got this far, thank you. Much love to you all. And we'll see all next week. In the meantime, I've been Samuel Sage. I've been Ben Hawking. I've been Giancarly Physicella.

And remember, keep breaking late. The podcast is part of the Sports Social Podcast Network.