The Late Braking F1 Podcast - Did Mercedes IGNORE Lewis Hamilton's advice on 2023 car?

Episode Date: March 12, 2023

Good news for those of you who don't like Harry, it's just Sam and Ben hosting the latest episode of the Late Braking F1 Podcast! The duo discuss whether Lewis Hamilton has been ignored, the potential for a no-DRS trial this year, and give their hot-takes in Pump The Brakes... VOTE for us in the Sports Podcast Awards: https://www.sportspodcastgroup.com/sports_category/best-motorsports-podcast/ SUPPORT our Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/latebraking JOIN our Discord: https://discord.gg/dQJdu2SbAm JOIN our F1 Fantasy League: https://fantasy.formula1.com/en/leagues/join/C3CCEW8P704 TWEET us @LBraking BUY our merch: https://late-braking-f1-podcast.creator-spring.com/ EMAIL us at [e-mail] SUBSCRIBE to our podcast! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This podcast is part of the Sports Social Podcast Network. Thank you for listening to the Late Breaking F1 podcast. Make sure to tune in for new episodes every Wednesday and Grand Prix Sunday. Hello and a very warm welcome to the late breaking F1 podcast presented by Sam Sage and me, Ben Hocking. No, how are you today? We'll see a massive shame, but we'll carry on without him nonetheless. we're here on a non-race weekend Sunday to discuss the latest F1 news. Sam, since our last episode, you've had a birthday and you're hung over.

Great. Yeah, I'm bringing all of the energy to this Sunday recording. And I'm now a year older. So I'm now a thousand and sixty-three, according to you guys. I've lived for eternity. How are you? It makes you still younger than Kimmy Reichenen, I guess. Yeah, yeah, we're all very close together.

Yeah. I'm a bit concerned. If I'm the one that needs to bring the energy to literally anything, then you know you're in trouble. Yeah. I'll pick it up. This might be a, to be honest, this one might be a shorter one anyway. This might be a shorter episode with no Harry Ead.

Obviously, usually it's difficult to shut Harry up. So you've got the two less talkative people on this week's podcast. What a chatterbox he is. Before we get into, he's got the editing power as well. I don't know why we stitch ourselves up like this. Before we get into the bulk of today's topics, a quick shout out to ourselves, weirdly. We've been shortlisted for Best Motorsports Podcast at the Sports Podcast Awards, which firstly, how, why, amazing, I don't know, we've been shortlisted,

which is incredibly humbly because there are some great names in the industry that are alongside us there. And we would absolutely massively appreciate any votes that go towards ourselves on that. So there will be the link in the description. Harry's going to be delighted. There's another link for him to remember to put in the description. It will be in there and he will signpost it very clearly, won't you, Harry? Follow the link. Create an account. It's free, super easy to do. And then you can vote for the podcast of your choice. Hint, make it us. That's part of the process. And then you'll just need to submit your vote.

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if we actually go on to achieve glory in the award ceremony, then we thought we'd give you the listeners something a bit different. And that would be that the banished Laura, Ben's lovely partner, came up with this fantastic idea that the three of us should all impersonate each other for an entire episode where Ben would play myself, I would play Harry, and Harry would play Ben. And we're not allowed to break character for the entire episode.

So if you want to see us taking the absolute Mickey out of each other for an hour a bit straight, pretending to be each other and doing the most silly impressions while talking Formula One, of course, then we just like to not come last. But if we do wing, you might see something that's funny, silly, and get good, F1 content. So if you do want to vote, we massively appreciate it, and you'll get to see something stupid in the process. So thank you very much. Yeah, being shortlisted by itself is such a massive honour. So thank you to all of you that continue to support what we do. It is so great. He appreciates. With that, let's get on to what we're discussing today.

So we're going to be talking a potential exodus at Ferrari in terms of personnel. It seems to have already started. Is that going to continue? Should F1 trial no DRS at a race this year? Myself and Sam give our views there. But we'll start with Mercedes and Lewis Hamilton more specifically. Mercedes didn't listen to me, Lewis Hamilton. He was speaking to BBC 5 live after the first.

first race of the season saying that the team didn't listen to his input on the 2023 car, saying that last year there were things I told them. I said the issues that are with the car. I've driven so many cars in my life. So I know what a car needs. I know what a car doesn't need. And I think it's really about accountability. It's about owning up and saying, yeah, you know what? We didn't listen to you. It's not where it used to be. And we've got to work. Well, I mean, these are pretty jagged comments from Lewis Sammleton. Sam. Do you think that he is within his right to call out the team in such a public forum? Do you think it's a good idea for him to do so? It's really a changing in character and narrative from Lewis Hamilton.

And I think it shows that when everything was on the up, when it was all, you know, moving in the direction, the off and to the right, as they like to say, then, you know, Lewis Hamilton was very happy to keep things internal to give some nice comments over the radio and to the public. And if there was anything ever that happened, you know, for example, the rivalry with Nico Rosberg, a long of it was discussed in-house. You know, okay, between the two drivers, you might see a bit of drama. But they rarely, you know, slacked each other off publicly to the camera and said, the team aren't handling this.

The team aren't doing this. Neither of them really did that. So this is the first time we've ever really seen Lewis Hamilton come out and publicly blame the team for something. And I guess, realistically, what we're seeing here is, a tolerance level being met. I think Lewis Hamilton last season putting a lot of work.

We saw the whole first half of the season. It was well known that Hamilton was the one running extreme setups. He was running censors on the car that Russell didn't have. He was trying all different types of things that was hindering performance right and centre. And of course, I guess to top off

that lovely season that he had to endure after winning that many titles, George Russell went on and won the only race that they had in that whole season, not Lewis Hamilton after he did so much of that development work. So I can imagine that as much as it's Lewis Hamilton,

he's got over 100 race wings to his game, I imagine it would touch him a little bit to go, okay, it's great that we got a wing. We liked it to have been me after I did all that work, and I've been here for so long, but hey, and of course to come through that winter break and to give so much input and so many suggestions, and it's just, as he said, it's not been listened to,

and he's seen that the car hasn't worked again. I think, I wonder if he's had reservations the whole winter and gone, okay, I'm going, keep quiet until race one. And if we're at the front, I'll hold my hands up internally and say that, you know, well done, guys, you got it right. If we're not fighting at the front after race one, I'm coming out swinging. And he has come out swinging.

And George Russell's already come out, almost supported the comments by saying we should big off the season. We should just use it as a big test and we should get the car right because it isn't where it needs to be. I think Hamilton has every right to have a complaint. Do I think it's good for him and the team? No. I think that it might cause tension.

I think there will probably be a lot of hardworking folk in the factory, in the design centres that will find this frustrating. But at the same time, it's part of the job. It's a sport. And he has every right to sit there and go, I want the machinery to win me races, as is George Russell. And we're not getting that. Even though we gave you input to suggest otherwise,

you haven't listened. And I can imagine that is frustrating. So I don't think it will do anything brilliant for relationships, but at the same time, that team knows that it wants to be at the very top. And it has very, very high standards. and that's why it's got a seven-time world champion in its ranks. It needs could do better. So he's right to be frustrated.

I don't know if maybe just coming out like that is the right thing to do. I think it might cause some tension deeper inside the Mesaigis factory. What do you think? I mean, they can't afford that, right? They can't afford those sorts of tensions where they're not in the spot that they want to be. Yeah. Like if they're third or third or fourth quickest team when your absolute intention is to be first, and you've got so much work to do behind the scenes

in terms of developing that car or changing that car or whatever the approach is, you've got a lot of work to do. And I don't think a rivalry between Hamilton and management or the prospect of Hamilton leaving or Hamilton getting Russell getting Russell on his side in terms of a bit of a driver revolt. None of these things are going to be helpful for them this year or in the long run.

I feel like a lot of it is just based on Lewis Hamilton has high expectations of himself and of his team, and rightly so, and its previous success that has really got him to the point where that's what he expects. He has, for the better part of 10 years, been at Mercedes enjoying and contributing to the dominance that they had on the sport. So once you've won seven championships and you've won, I know, before Vestappen's two championships, if won like five of the last six or whatever the stat was, your expectations have to change as a result of that. We know that you don't celebrate your 20th poll in the same way that you celebrate your first one. You don't celebrate your ninth race win the same way you do, you celebrate

your first. I mean, if Hass, Kevin Magnuson got a poll position of Brazil last year, you'd have thought that have won the championship based on their reaction, right? Charles Leclair gets of pole position. It's just another day at the office. And that's because your numbness, I guess, to winning and to success goes up and down, depending on the previous success that you've had. So whereas last season, George Russell was in the best car that he's ever been in, Lewis Hamilton is in the worst car he's been in for a decade. And I think you can allow one year off based on the amount of success. Again, I don't think Hamilton was happy with where the car was. of course he wasn't, but you can allow a year, allowing two years at his age and his usual success,

is tougher to do. And if he thinks that this is a right-off year and he doesn't yet know that next year won't be, then suddenly these questions start to become asked. I don't think, I don't think his comments were appropriate and I wouldn't have gone about it that way. I don't think what he said was outright bad, but I also wouldn't have gone with that as the approach. Because firstly, I find it hard to believe that Mercedes ignored and didn't listen to his comments, because I think there is a difference between someone not listening to what you're saying and not taking it on board or not going ahead with it. Like, I can listen to Harry wanting to talk about Fernando Alonzo for seven topics straight.

I can listen to him. And us not going ahead with that doesn't necessarily mean it hasn't been listened to. It's just, it's not a good idea. And that might be the case with Lewis Hamilton, because as great as Hamilton is behind the wheel, he's not an engineer. And, you know, he might have an idea where I think we should do this. And people that are more in the know about exactly what is capable with the current concept might turn around and say, okay, we listen to.

to you, we understand why you think that's a good idea, but it's not a good idea based on X, Y and Z. It doesn't mean he hasn't been listened to. It's just other people have overrode him on that. So I find it hard to believe that he hasn't been listened to. And in terms of the comments, I'm not sure what it's going to achieve, because it's not like it's going to give Mercedes a kick up the backside to, you know, it's not like they need to be put the work here, right? They are already acutely aware of the position they're in. They put out an apology letter based on a fifth and seventh place. If that doesn't scream, we're not happy with this. I don't know what does. So they're already going to be flat out behind the scenes working as hard

as they can to change this up and to make it work. So I don't think Hamilton's public comments are going to do anything because they're already there. If they were not flat out 100% on this, then maybe Hamilton's comments would actually serve some purpose. But I don't think they actually do anything here to contribute behind the scenes. I don't know if you'd agree with that or not. I think what they're doing is Hamilton is very cleverly trying to change the public perception of the comics that are going around in social media, a lot of new viewers maybe, you know, the sense of, oh, you know, you have to have the best Carter wing, and Hamilton hasn't got it, he's struggling, that kind of thing. I think he's very cleverly trying to not shift the blame,

but I think he's trying to realign the social perspective that is going on with everyone looking at Mercedes right now. And we've seen this within races, this kind of attitude, where the moment Mercedes are actually challenged one-on-one, you know, we saw a little bit of it with Ferrari in the 2017-2018 season. We saw it again when Red Bull came to permission, rather at the most recent couple of years. They very quickly fall apart. Mercedes are an absolute eyeing fist when they're at the most recent couple of years. they are the ones who are technically at the top of the regulations. But the moment they have, they're the underdog, they don't they have the upper hand,

the culture and the dynamic there seems to really shift very quickly. And we've seen that here again today. We've seen it with this race that's come through. Toto Wolf called it on his darkest days of racing. They've released the apology letter, which people have mocked because they've gone, your team's got a fifth and seventh. You've got people out there like, you know, there's people not, of course, thousands, millions of people, fans of Williams, fans of hearts who have gone,

I've never seen my team, you know, I think I've been watching, I've never seen my team take a wing, or I've never seen my team pick up a podium, because, you know, I'm newer to the sport. I've struggled for a decade, watching my team cruise around. They at most. They might get a tenth. And yet they're getting a fifth and a seventh, and it's the worst thing in the world. But it seems like Mercedes overreact a little bit when things aren't going very, very well.

And I think Lewis is kind of saying, well, you know, this isn't on me. I haven't been a part of this. I say something else. You know, it's the team that I've got to do it. And it shows a bit of friction there. And Hamilton is in his latter stage of his career. And I don't know if he'll want to stick around for as long as Fernando Alonso is here for, as racing is late into. I think Hamilton is very much ready to pick up that eighth title and then essentially call it a day and move on to other operations.

He is an entrepreneur. The man's got fingers in many a pie. So when he's seeing it be delayed and they're delayed and delayed and delayed, it's It must be so frustrating to know that you've got so much potential, so much success, that is on a finite measure. It is runging out. And if you can't be given the machinery to show off that ability you have in such a small amount of time, I can imagine it's quite frustrating.

So I think he's making these comments, not to give him a say he's to kick up the ass, because you're right. I think they already have it, but more so to shift public perception of what he is doing within that team. Yeah, quite possibly. He speaks to accountability in that state. and he needs to be careful because he's not pointing fingers at any one individual directly. He's more collectively, they didn't listen.

But Mercedes do have a very clear culture of we don't blame people. Like we look at issues and we solve them together, but we don't blame people. There's a no blame culture within that team. So I think Hamilton needs to be wary to stick to that in terms of that overall culture. The statement, and I've seen as well, much it's been mocked by fans of lower teams. I think it's a good sign because if the team is that embarrassed by a fifth and seventh place, it's showing absolutely no signs of complacency.

It does read as really ridiculous for a lower team to see, you know, if Williams turned around and got a fifth and seventh, they'd be cheering in the, in the pit garage for hours after the race finished. But Mercedes, on the other hand, are writing an apology note. It just shows, I think, that we're not happy with this in the same way that you're not happy with this. We might have finished third last year. We might be on course to finish third this year, but we're not happy about it. And we are still, that standard of excellence is still the same.

We're not hitting it, and we're sorry about it. So it was a bit corny, but I think it's a good sign overall that they are embarrassed by that result. I think it only proves something if they can rectify it. I think these words will fall very quickly into nothingness and won't be respected. And people, especially, you know, Mercedes fans will look at this as a fickle statement if change isn't made very soon. If they keep coming to races in the next four or five races and they've got no major updates, you know, the car, the floor hasn't changed, the cypod maybe hasn't changed,

the philosophy around the car isn't shifting. and they're not seeing that, even if it means that Mercedes don't initially get quicker, but they're not seeing an attempt to make a change. I think a statement like this can very quickly cause anger amongst the passionate fans because you go, well, you've said X, but you're not doing anything. You're not changing anything. It's just words at this point. So they have to be careful with such a heartfelt, I'm using quotation marks, folks,

a heartfelt apology. You've got to deliver on the other side. You've got to take action with it. It's all good saying something. they have to show change. And again, that doesn't mean they start winning from, I don't know, Baku by this point, right? It's going to take time. But you have to show a deliverance of change somehow if you're going to make statements like this.

It's a really good point because I think there was a certain amount of power that came with that statement, but you can't keep making that statement and expected to have that same message every single time. So they might have finished fifth and seventh in Bahrain. Let's say we get to the next race at Jeddah and Stroll is back to full health and Charlelele doesn't retire, would it be a shock if Mercedes finished sixth and eighth? It wouldn't be, right?

So what do you do at that point? Do you send out another apology note because if you've done even worse than Bahrain? I mean, but if you do that, then suddenly what, what, is it just an expectation after every single race that they do? And again, that's got no power to it because nothing's getting better,

as you alluded to. So it's almost like a bit of a, they've used their one joker card, right, in terms of getting that statement out there. They can't really use it again, at least in the foreseeable future. So they better hope it doesn't get worse. Otherwise, that doesn't look good at all. Yeah, they don't want to be seeing as the team, you know, the boy that cried wolf, the team that cried wolf, so to speak. They don't want to go, you know, oh, we're really sorry. And then actually, it's the same thing for the rest of the season.

Like I say, I think the Sagey's fans would be accepted. of, let's say, a sixth and eighth in the next few races, if they had the communication afterwards that, yeah, we are, we have, the car you're seeing, forget it. We're just having to get, we just need time to actually bringing a new floor philosophy, a new cycle of philosophy. If they are told we have actively and massively overhauled the philosophy of this car, changes coming. I think that will buy you more time than I, we're sorry this wasn't good enough. The team that cried Toto Wolf. exactly, there you go.

There we go. A quick note just in terms of Lewis Hamilton and his patient, do you think that his patience is quickly running out? I think out of all the drivers on the grid, he and arguably Fernando Alonkso are the two that have every right to turn around and go, I want a car now

and not just because of their age, but also because of their pedigree. You know, they're a scale that work together. There are drivers on the grid who are of similar age to those who drivers. You've got, you know, slightly younger than them,

you've got Checo Perez. You've got, you know, Holkaberg is back on the grid. We did have Vettel last season and Vettel would be in the same category for me as the Hamilton Alonso, but the Holgerberg,

Checo are a separate group. Checoeco and Holgerberg have never had the same success that Hamilton Alonso Vessel have had. And as you said earlier, Ben, you make a really,

really good point that once you achieve a level of success, your expectations and your standards of yourself, have to change. You have to adapt to that. You can't win seven world titles. And every time you win a world title, oh my God, this is the best thing I've ever had in the entire world. It'll never be matched. And then the next year you do it again, go, oh my God, it's the best building in the world. It will never be matched. Because obviously, it just was matched. The point is you go,

this is something special. And now I'm going to go even better. I think Hamilton at his age. And where the dynamics of the Formula One grid are, Hamilton is it going to start team hopping. He's not like for Daniel Ongso, who's what, raised with four or five different teams now. Hamilton's here until the end, and it depends when the end is. And if he knows in his mind, if he has said to Toto, well, I've got what? Two seasons left. That's what I want to do. I want to be done by 2025.

When those new entry regulations come in, I don't want to be here after that point, that's all you've got. Then he sees the car acting like this and sees how far ahead Red Bull are. He's a smart man. He'll have seen how long it took Red Bull to overhaul the difference from the last generation of cars up to Mercedes. it took them year on seven or eight years to become a race-winning car every single race. How much it doesn't have that time? He does not have that time.

So he's got every right in his own success, which of course he's there to think of, so questioning it and go, is it coming? Are you going to make it happen? I don't blame him for being a bit impatient after last season in the amount of work he put in, but I do think he just needs to be a little bit careful in the public eye with who he's, you know,

sending accusations to, because it doesn't make for good, reading from a public point of view. No, it really doesn't. And I don't know. It just feels like last year he was, it's almost like he had a sentence, right? He had a sentence for a year to work on this, by comparison, at least, this awful car. And it's like, oh, yeah, you've got to do that again now.

Oh, okay. Like, his expectations would have been right. I've put almost like I've put in my time. Like, I've put in my time to develop this car. And this is the year that that hard work pays off. Nope. You've got to do the same thing again. That has to be tough for him to deal with. And I feel as if his patience is probably wearing Finn. I agree with your point that I don't see him team hopping in the same way that Fernando Alonzo has done over his career. You know, he does see Mercedes as a family. He has been associated with Mercedes for, what, 25 years, I think if you go back all the way to his early karting days.

like he has been linked with Mercedes, either as a team or as an engine manufacturer for so long. And I think that's probably, that's going to help his patience be a little larger than perhaps it would be for another driver at another team. But that patience will run out at some point. And it's just a question of when that is. We know that Hamilton is not limited in terms of what he could do on this earth

and already what he does on this earth. Like he, outside of F1, he's already committed. to other things. So he could well dive into those even further. It's not like he would be lost without motorsport in, I could be wrong in this, but the same way that I think Fernando Alonso might be lost if he were to leave motorsport completely.

I don't think Hamilton would have that same issue. So I think he's still got time in terms of what he's willing to put in. But it's only so much. We'll take a short break and then we'll be back for our next topic. Okay, F1 and DRS has obviously been connected for over 10 years now, not far or 15 years, that DRS has been a thing within Formula One. We've seen this year that it hasn't really changed much versus last year in terms of its application. We know that at least at Melbourne, it looks like there will be more DRS zones,

which was initially planned for last year, but didn't go ahead in the end. Sam, I'll pose this question to you. should F1 trial at a race this year or multiple races or however you think it should go, should have one trial no DRS this season? I mean, I'm not against a trial of the action at all. And we've seen complaints. The three of us on this podcast have regularly said that, you know, DRS can falsify and manufacture competition.

You know, it generates it where maybe competition doesn't exist due to the regulations. And I'm not against that because I want to see cars passing. I want to see people moving up and down the grid. I don't want a 20 car train that if you qualify at pole regardless of track, you finish number one regardless of track. But we do need to move into a world where the regulations lend themselves to multiple corners of wheel to wheel racing where moves on surprise moments of the track become more regular.

For example, look how much we all talked about the Fernando Alonkso move at turn 10 on Lewis Hamilton at Bahrain. That was a sensational move. It was unexpected, but that is what we should be getting every race. I want to see cars sending it down the inside on random corners. I want to see wheel-to-wheel battles, you know, through four, five, six corners. I want to see battles happening over multiple laps. And DRS, while it does provide great, sometimes great late braking action, to use the brand name,

it also sometimes they get it wrong and they make the DRS zones too long, for example. And you'll see cars whizz pass so far in advance of the braking zone that you're like, well, there's no point even really showing it. You may as well just say that an overtakes happen and they just groan straight past them because it's not exciting. It just is a free pass. And I want every pass to be an action thrilling moment, you know, a really field moment of, well, they touch, they're side by side, who's getting the move? Let's see that real bravery in the car. Who's got the best control? So maybe a track such as, such as Baku, right?

where it lends itself to, you've got quite a long straight anyway. So, you know, a good exit is imperative down that, you know, start, finish straight that you might need. But at the same time, you've got enough time with some management of your ERS attack mode to get yourself up alongside. You know, it could be functional there. Another one could be circuit to Jill Villeneuve or maybe even Silverstone, right? The track, we've been proven already, you're able to follow, you're able to be combative, you're able to be close to the cars in front, but at the same time,

there's enough width in the track, there's enough space in the track that a late-breaking maneuver is possible. I'd like to see it happen. I don't think the cars are quite there in their current guise to actually produce regular, exciting races without any DRS assistance. But I would like us to be there in future

where maybe certain tracks just don't have DRS because they don't need them. We've had it proven that they don't need them. But I think we're a little way off yet. Bringing up turn 10 at Bahrain is a great shout because you're right. Everyone coming out of that weekend was talking about that one singular move. Now, tons of moves were made into turn one and you can add them all up. They're not being talked about as much as that one move at turn 10.

And I've always said this that it's not the number of overtakes that make a good Grand Prix. It's the quality of the overtakes. You can have a great Grand Prix where there's 20 overtakes combined. in the race, you can have a bad Grand Prix where there's 80. It can work that way. It's not just the number of overtakes that happen because you're right. If you have got overtakes that happen down the start-finished rate where there's powerful DRS and the move is made alongside the start-finish line and not in the breaking zone, there isn't a great deal of skill associated with that. There's not much in terms of action in that. You're not clamoring to see that. You're not clamoring to see that.

a viewer. So, you know, what worth is that anyway? They should be made in the breaking zone and it should be, you should have to work for these overtakes. It shouldn't be a walk in the park. So I'm agreeing with you there, absolutely. I feel like they should trial something this year because, heck, they're trialing everything else, right? They're trialing new qualifying formats and they're trialing this and they'll trial that, sprint races, let's try six of those. they'll try anything, right? So might as well throw this into the mix, hey, F1, like, give it a go. And even if you're not bold enough to go straight away, let's try no DRS, at least try one zone of DRS where there's currently two or one DRS zone where there's currently three at a circuit.

At least scale it down and see if that has an impact at all. You don't have to go full hog in the first instance. You can at least try and do it in stages. And it feels like rather than reduce, there doesn't seem to be any discussion in this. It doesn't seem as if this is being considered at all. I mean, we're talking about this because we think, you know, at some point it's probably worth the trial. But it's not like it's come from F1 a try and this. We're reacting. It's almost like we're proactively bringing up the debate here.

So it doesn't look like it's going to happen. And in the case of Melbourne, it seems as if it's going the other way, which seems absurd. the whole point of these regulations was to help cars drive closer to one another and aid overtaking. So very simply put, and I understand that there has been some benefits, maybe even a lot of benefits to the new regulations. But until DRS is no longer needed, the new regulations have not 100% worked. Until we get to that point where DRS is not necessary, the regulations have not completely worked. You can say they have 90% worked or 80% worked, fine, but they haven't 100% worked until we get to that stage. Because if the whole point of bringing in DRS in the first

place was an artificial fix to the issue of there's not enough overtaking, and the whole point of the new regulations was to help cars follow closer and aid overtaking, surely you don't need the first fix if the second fix is working absolutely fine. But at the moment, we still do. So, some point you're going to have to trial it. I think the circuits that you mentioned are a good prime candidates for that. I actually didn't think of Baku, but thinking about that's probably the main one. I sort of threw Monza out there and Spar maybe as well. Maybe Monza because Spar could do with a good race after a few duff ones. But, you know, with Monza, let's say Monza as an example, you could keep the DRS on the back straight after the Lesmo.

I can't remember if that straight as a name of them. And then the start-finished straight, you don't have DRS there. So between Parabolica and turn 1, there's no DRS there. Then suddenly you're asking cars to make breaking moves into turn 1, which is not an easy place to get an overtake done. And there is the potential to fight back as you go down into turn 3 or 4 or whatever the next turn is after that. So maybe that would work.

But I feel like it's just they need to try this at some point. how will they know one way or the other? You might get a race, which, let's face it, we might get a race and it's dull because there isn't the IRS. At least you know at that point. At least you can move forward and say, well, maybe the regulations are working as well as we want them to. Back to the drawing board.

Do you remember a long time ago now in one of Hamilton's first season? I can't remember if it was 07 or 08, and he was attacking Kimi-Riking when he was in the Ferrari going down to Turn 1 in Monza. and he must have sent it back from about 150 metres. It locked up the brake, but he got that move down. It was, I'm being ODRS around at that point. And it was so exciting to watch him hit the brakes right at the last moment and get that car slowed down.

I think Kimmy Rikers had a bit of bad luck at that car, because I think Daniel Ricardo is exactly the same thing. Yes. About six or seven years later. Yeah. So, yeah, but that was so thrilling. It was so thrilling. Monsra is actually a really good candy at four.

I mean, if you want an example of where regulations are working and we're seeing action all over a track, you only have to look at your junior formula to see where that action is working regularly. Yes, okay, you know, they might have some assistance in certain areas, but how often in F2, in F3 are you seeing cars two, three wide coming out of traction zones, going into braking zones, swapping positions multiple times throughout a lab? It works in the junior formula. If you're not finding Formula One that threading, I implore you, go and watch the junior formula because actually for on track action, they are sensational to watch.

And it is silly that I think for a long time everyone's made the argument that a lot of the time the junior formula will produce a more, you know, topsy-turvy, no idea what's going on kind of race. And sometimes you'll get shock winners. Sometimes you'll get cars out of nowhere that are doing well. You'll get big crashes. You know, it has it all. and it's silly that the top tier of formula in our series doesn't have so many of the positive elements

of the junior formulas that seem to work so well. So a trial I think should definitely be on the cards and I think the fact that we're bringing this up, not Formula One, is somewhat worrying because as you said, Ben, it was a fix. It was brought in to bring some kind of on-track action because we were seeing so many dull races which were just training after training after train,

session after concession. You know, I remember sitting down watching the TV as a kid, and a lot of the time, you know, my parents might start cleaning the house with it on because nothing's happening, you know. Someone might be, you know, doing something out and about starting dinner because the race isn't thrilling. And it needed something. But the point of the new regulations that we had a couple of years ago now were to reduce that element. But it seems like the FIA or Liberty, I'm not sure who is this, behind those decisions, are enjoying DRS. They like the effect that DRS has. And they've always forgotten. that these regulations that have been brought in

were meant to stop DRS and they've gone, more! I'm hungry with power for DRS, more! And now Melbourne has four DRS zones, which just feels ludicrous. Yeah, I mean, at Melbourne, you might as well just count the amount as places on the track

that don't have DRS. It'd just be quicker at this point. Everywhere that isn't a corner, put a DRS zone. Hey, I mean, don't give them ideas. They might start to put them in the corners as well. Like, it's an interesting, like, just to go back to the first point in terms of that Alonzo move at Turn 10 at Bahrain, a great move and it's getting all the plaud as it deserves, but your point to the junior categories are spot on because that was, I think, maybe the third or fourth time I saw that move that weekend.

Like it happened in F2 and F3 and no one makes a big deal out of it, partly because it's not as big a series, of course, but also because it's expected in those series. Why are we just settling for, it's an incredible move in F1 because you wouldn't ever expect to see it. Yet in F2 or F3 that move is made and it's like, wow, that's good. Like, yeah, I'm not surprised at all to see it. Why is that not what we're going for here? Surely there needs to be a push towards,

we want these moves to be daring and bold. And, you know, if you're overtaking on a start-finished straight and you do the move before the breakings, There is no decision-making process, really, that needs to happen from a driver's perspective outside of getting slipstream, move out to slipstream, make over take, carry on. Like, there's no hard decisions that have to be made there. To your point about the Lewis Hamilton, that is a decision. Yeah, exactly.

And I'm, you know, I'm not going to put Sam's driving down at all, but there isn't too much impressive about doing that on a motorway, right? Like, it's your standard driving. But if you'd like to take the Lewis Hamilton example with Kimmy Reichen, he has to make a split-second decision knowing that it could easily go wrong and he goes careening it off into Reichen and Seipot and they're both out of the race. That is a very distinct possibility. He's got to make, in the moment, that decision of is the risk worth it for the position?

And again, going back to it's the pinnacle of motorsport, that's what we want to see in the pinnacle mode sport, right? those split-second decisions having been made by drivers. And sometimes DRS means that we get rid of some of those. Interesting or what everyone else thinks when you're listening, please can you, if you're on the Discord, let us know, of course, in the podcast chat channel that we've got. Or if you want to follow us on social media at all breaking on Twitter, go and get involved in the debate. Come and tweet us, have a chat with us, have a conversation. We'll be very interested to hear your points of view.

Absolutely. We'll be talking Ferrari straight after this quick break. Before we get into Ferrari, if you want to hear even more late breaking, we do have Patreon. And the first exclusive episode for March is now live. So your normal podcast, only for a Patreon subscribers. Massively appreciate anyone who's already signed up. But if you'd also like to sign up and listen to more of us, you're able to do so. Just make sure you follow the link in the description. If Harry has remembered to put all the links in there, because I appreciate there are about 12 now.

Thanks, Harry. Cheers, I appreciate it. Let's move on to Ferrari. So quite a big figure within Ferrari, David Sanchez, left the team about a week ago. So he was only around for the Bahrain Grand Prix and is now has moved on. It's been there for about 10 years, head of vehicle concept at the team. One of Bonotto's guys very closely associated with Mateo Bonotto, the ex-head of Ferrari at the team.

It's believed he'll be moving to a British team, which really narrows it down. And it's apparently not related to the Bahrain Grand Prix at all. But he's going to go on gardening leave now. So it's expected that wherever he ends up, it's probably not going to be for a while. And rumours that actually there might be some more big names leaving the team as well. Lauren McKeys has a rumor going around that potentially he will be on his way out as well. Sam, what do you make of this? when you look at it on the surface, it's a really weird thing to happen, right?

He was one of Bonotto's guys, and he being at the team with Bonotto a long time. They were very close together. And you sit there and if you just look at it on the surface, you don't dig into the detail. You see this and go, right, Bogotto obviously got removed and they bring in Freddie Vass. And it's almost like David's gone, all right, I'll give it a couple of months and see how it goes. So actually, I don't like it anymore. Don't like it here anymore. I'm going to go.

everyone, I'm going. And it looks, sounds really petty. It's like he hasn't given it any time. But obviously, when you dig into the detail, he's been poached is what's happened. Someone's turned around and gone, what's a team that's doing very, very well in their design centre? And we've seen this a lot throughout the grid. There's a reason why Mercedes designs are no longer as good as they used to be.

A lot of their head designers no longer work for them. They work for Reg Bull. That's where they went. They all went to Red Bull. They all got bought out by their contract. by Red Bull, and they've gone to the competition, and a similar thing is happening here. David has been, I would say, poached, I guess, but I think he's looking for a new challenge, and he's been talent scouted, and I have a hunch that he's going to Williams.

I think that, you know, a certain individual that's taking over, Mr. James Vowell at Williams and started to look for talent outside of the Williams base, and he started picking up individuals. They need people, right? They need people. They need people to succeed. And while Ferrari- No head of technical. They're lacking.

They're lacking on the personnel. And while Ferrari have not won championships since Kimmy Riking than over 15 years ago, you can argue that their car has been better consistently than the Williams car has for the last 15 years. So maybe by one season. So my point here is that he's gone, okay, who's looking for an opportunity? Who wants to step up? Who's had credible success?

And who maybe wants a new chance? challenge. Well, Big David wants, Big David needs, you know, Big David wants to have something new come his way. And if he can move into a more senior role, you know, the head of technical or something like that, and maybe create a new wave of success for a team like Williams and a new management, it feels very logical. And like, like Ben said, there's already others that are in the rumour mill of departing the team. And I wouldn't be shocked if Ascom Martin and Williams are the two candidates that are still looking to pick up more and more. talent in the current process as they continue to push their way back towards the front.

Williams especially, I wouldn't be shocked if that's where a few Ferrari personnel end up going. Yeah, I mean, there would be great coups for Williams, right? They, as you say, they need the personnel. They haven't got the head of technical at the team at the moment, which you might want to think about filling that at some point. Quite a big role. Yeah, fairly big role. But yeah, I mean, if they can get hold of some of the top talent within Formula One,

then that kickstarts a process of getting them from the back of the grid towards the front. Like, they've been there for so long now that they've got to try something. And it feels like poaching the best of team staff is probably a good way to go about it. I'm not, I'm not shocked by this at all or by the timing of it, really, because we know that when it comes to vehicle concept, it doesn't run in parallel with the season. So if you're looking at this, you might think, oh, well, he's left after one race. Surely it's just as a result of the Bahrain Grand Prix not going very well. Not really, because, you know, the vehicle concept for next season, you know, that starts now.

And there's a process that it doesn't really follow the calendar in the same way that the results do. So I don't think the timing of it is surprising. And he was one of Bonotto's almost one of Bonotto's sidekicks, right? He was very closely associated with him. And if Freddie Vassar is trying to put together his regime and put together his own stamp on Ferrari, then it's not a surprise to see him try and do it with his personnel and to bring in guys that he trusts. I would caveat that with, I don't think personnel change by itself is going to transform Ferrari. I think there is structural process-led issues.

the team that do need to change and it doesn't matter who you've got personnel wise. But certainly if Vassar wants his own, he wants the team to be created with his goals in mind and his overall way of working in mind, then it makes sense for someone like this who is so closely to say to put Bonotto to eventually go. And that might well apply for other team members that, you know, Laura McKayor or others that are linked to the older regime. do you think that this is perhaps slightly led internally by Ferrari in terms of Freddie Vash trying to implement himself within the team?

I mean, logically, that makes sense. In theory, it makes a lot of sense to see. If you're someone coming in, let's just say that, you know, Ferrari's a wounded animal and it's being a wounded animal for 15 years, and you go, well, you're not healing this animal, you're not fixing this animal. Well, why should you still be here, really? I'm going to bring someone in who has fixed an animal previously. You know, Freddie Vassar has worked with a lot of technical minds.

He's a very technically minded gentleman. He's, you look at his history, the amount of understanding of engineering and aerodynamics and chassis work that Freddie Vass has is phenomenal. He's an incredibly smart bloke. So he's going to look at car design and direction and go, this isn't how I see it moving. This isn't how I see it transforming. I want to now almost wipe the slate clean. I don't want any, you know, old hands in here that might try and, you know,

cause friction or have a different direction. And it won't be necessarily a toxic thing or a problematic thing, but it's understandable that when you're sitting here wanting to create a new culture, a new wave, it makes sense to go, you were a bastion of the old format. Well done. You have achieved a lot. He has had a lot of success. They may not have one world titles, but I would argue that, you know, those who have been at Ferrari aren't ever going to go. 17, 18. Yeah. They're not going to walk away and go, I was a total failing. They're not. Ferrari have never been a total. failure. They're just not winning championships. But when your goal is, we need to win championships and it hasn't happened for 15 years, you have got to, you know, dust off the old stuff and throw it

in the bin and go, thank you for your service. We're going to make something new now when we need to do something different. And that's what Freddie Bass is doing. But sir is trying to create a network of people that he trusts, he knows and believes in his vision. And it will create a great team dynamic in the long run, if he's given the allowance to do that. If he's allowed to put the people in the places he wants them, it will create a positive mindset. It will create a driven goal that they're all working towards. And there won't be any old minds that are going, well, two years ago before you came in, actually, this was the vision. And I want to carry on doing this. And Freddie Bass will then have to have internal conversations. It could lead to friction. It makes sense that at the start of a

new regime like this, you take the key hegs and you maybe change them around, recycle them, you get people on your side. Makes a lot of sense to me. I think he's got every right to do it. You see it in every team when someone comes in. James Vows is probably in the process of doing exactly the same thing at Williams. Yeah, and I think with Sanchez as well, like he can take a lot of pride in terms of what he's done.

And it hasn't worked some years. It has worked in other years. You know, in terms of, you know, the beginning of the hybrid era was difficult for Ferrari. And 2020 and 2021, particularly 2020, was really rough for the team. But if you're going to put together a list of what went wrong for Ferrari in 2022, car design isn't exactly at the top of that list.

It might be somewhere on the list in terms of it wasn't quite where it was versus Red Bull at the end of the year. But certainly if you're looking at why did the Ferrari season of 2022 not work out? Well, you'd probably look at strategy and you'd look at a few driver errors and you'd look at this that happened and that happened. But the car, at least in the first half of the year, was in a really good place. So, yeah, this is a talented guy,

and whoever picks him up is probably going to be very happy to do so. Do you fancy pumping some brakes, Sam? Oh, go on, Meng. You know what? I'm on preview again, aren't I? Hang on a minute, folks. Let me just get on to live. Oh, bloody soundboard.

Going live, going live. Go on. There we go, right. We're live. Now we just need to find the pump the brakes jingle. Just talk amongst yourselves, folks. There's going else to talk to, Ben. I have to talk to you.

Oh, well, everyone apart from Sam talk amongst yourselves. Talk to a family member, you know, make yourself a drink. It might be here a while. Who knows? Ah, here we go. Pump the brakes. I swear to God, you better work. This is hilarious. You're on live. I've pressed play.

and you're just doing the spinning wheel of doom, aren't you? Whereabouts is it on the little... Pump the brakes! There is. All in good time, soundboard. Goodness sake. Anyway, pump the brakes. Myself and Sam will give a potentially controversial opinion

and the other one will have to say whether they're okay with that opinion and you keep thinking that. That's absolutely fine. Or whether they should absolutely pump the brakes. because they're being a moron. And of course, if the answer is, pump the brakes, that's where Dave Benson Phillips,

children's TV star gets involved with the awful gunging noise that I now remember plays louder than anything else on this soundboard, so I've turned the volume down before I preview what it sounds like. Well done, Ben. That's the same one.

And he's played the wrong one. You've been absolutely synced for a bag of chips here, mate. Gunge sound effect click. There we go. There you go. And we paid Dave Benson Phillips like 50p for every time he gets to gunge one of us. But of course there's only two of us.

So there's maximum amount. Yeah, exactly. We've actually raised it to 52P to account for inflation. You're welcome, Dave. All right. Kick us off, Sam. What we got? So, folks, because we were a little late to put in the sketchy together,

the sketchy wedgy, we don't have a lot of time to think about pump the brakes because Ben did forget that Harry wasn't here, so he had a game ready, and now we can't play the game. So that's good. So my pump the brakes is quite a classic one, I think, in the fact that I've been doing some research for a potential series that is going to be coming up, and this might give you a hint as to what that is about folks. But I believe that Alan Prost is the most underrated world champion of all time. Explain yourself. of. So, firstly, look at his junior record for a start, right? The guy only started carting at what, like 14 or 15 years old with a hobby, very late to come into it, if you consider the competition

that he was up against at the time. And then he immediately went on to wing. I think it was, what, Formula France back to back. He then won Formula 3 and Formula Euro back in two successive years. Then gets picked up by McLaren. The teammates he had going through the years were sensational. You know, you look at Kelly Rosberg, you look at Louder, you look at Sena. The people that he goes up against can beat on a regular basis. Sensational. And yet, when you listen to greatest of all time lists, when you listen to who should be in your top five, your top six, Senga always goes in that list.

And yet Prost regularly got the better of Erton Sena. Now, I know that obviously people may be taking into account the future ability of what Erting could do. And also the qualifying pace of Erting was better than Prost. But I'm talking about underrated here. I'm not talking about, you know, the best of all time. Prost achieved some incredible things. And he was there for so long. His longevity in Formula One was immense.

So I think just in terms of pure underrated ability, he for me is the most underrated. He never gets us. Because he's a four-time world champ. He never gets the same plaudits that people around that level of success pick up. And I don't think his championships were gimmies. I don't think he was, you know, I don't think he ever had, you know, a championship that was so easy for him, but it was a doddle, you know, walk in the park. So I really do think that people should put some more respect of Big Prosky's game.

Big Prosty, I love that. Oh, yeah, so he's underrated. I have absolutely no doubt about that. And I just need to work on whether he's the most underrated, because to your point, like, his career was exceptional. Like, I think it was about 30.5 points or something like that that prevented him from being a 10-time champion. Like, he was so close. And every year he didn't win the title,

he was right there in like almost at that point. So, and to your point, his teammates are exceptional. When you can list the likes of John Watson and René Arnoux as being your worst teammates. Right. I can mention them. And rightfully, so, because all the other ones you've mentioned are even better than those guys.

And I can't think of who is even his worst teammate would have been. René Arnui was a great qualifier. And John Watson was seriously good throughout the 70s and early 80s. So he was a great driver. Certainly in terms of underrated world champions, Alan Jones is definitely on that list. I think Alan Jones was far better than people giving credit for. No, I agreed.

And there's probably a few others as well that I can think of too. Certainly Alan Jones and Prost would be the first couple of names out of my mouth when thinking of this conversation. I'm going to say you're absolutely fine because I can't immediately off the top of my head think of someone that I can say, yes, he's definitely more underrated than Prost. Because I'm very much with your opinion. Unlike a day, Vincent Phillips, the money is firmly in my pocket today. you. Now we get to go to my one. And I mean, we've done pump the breaks for a long time here on the podcast to the point where I can't confidently say I've never done this one before. But if I have done this one before or someone else has done this one before and you remember it, I'll just be quiet. Yeah. Or call us out on it. It's up to you. I'm going to say that in qualifying, in all qualifying sessions, we talk about. We talk about potential changes to qualifying and how it doesn't need to be tampered with. We had that discussion very recently.

And actually, no, I think there should be one change to qualifying. And that is that if you bring out a yellow flag or a red flag, then your lap should be deleted. And you should not be able to go out there and qualify on poll. So basically what the IndyCar rule is at the moment. So I think if you bring out a red flag in qualifying an IndyCar, you're, top two or three laps are canned and don't count towards your qualifying effort. I think if you bring out a red flag in qualifying, you should be automatically put to the back of the grid or the back of whatever that session is. And then if you bring out a yellow flag, at the very least, your

fastest lap time should be discounted. Maybe your fastest two lap times, I'm not sure. So for my own understanding, just, and also for those listening, the reg flag, for example, for example, Charlotte Claire in Monaco, right, brought out the red flag and you picked up pole position. You start 10th. Yeah, okay. And then with the yellow flag, so let's just say Max Verstappen were to set the poll time on his first lap of the final shootout session. But then he goes out for two more laps. and on the final lap, he doesn't prove with the second on the final lap, he then locks up and causes a yellow flag. So you're saying that the pole lap from two laps ago should then be deleted.

Yeah, so I think, I think with IndyCar, it might be more than one, but just based on Formula One, generally you only get two runs. I would just say your fastest lap is removed if you bring out a yellow flag and you have to go with whatever your second fastest lap is. okay all right i the red flag bit i 100% agree with you on i think you should be punished for ruining other people's sessions for a start and i also think that you shouldn't be rewarded by shutting down the circuit essentially um and we saw that both in bacu and in monaco with the ferrari's um you know over the last couple of years they both brought out red flags they both managed to pick up pole positions because of it and it feels a bit unfair you know we lose the excitement from the session. We lose a bit of drama at the end of it. And again, we've

had controversy, especially around Monaco in the past, where people have, oh, so I've gone off into a side road and I can't get the car out there and now it's a red flag. Did they accidentally lock up or was it real? You know, and I'm not going to start naming games, but there have been that you can find very easily find it, folks on Google. There have been those conversations around certain drivers in the past that have done that around street circuits. So I 100% agree. There needs to be some kind of punishment for a reg flag. The yellow flag one is what's making me a little bit more hesitant because I think obviously if you bring out a yellow on your lap that you're wrong,

that lap is going to account for you anyway, right? It's not going to be any kind of improvement. You'll probably have come off the track. You might have damaged your car slightly. Your time is not going to be competitive, nine times out of ten. But if I'd set a lap that was the fastest one seven minutes ago and everything was fine, I don't know if I feel like it would be fair that I was punished for something that I did seven minutes ago. But then again, is it the same with the reg flag?

Because with the red flag, if I'd set the lap seven minutes ago and then brought out a red flag later on, I believe it's a tough one. You've really muddled my brain. It's probably worth more thought than this because it is difficult, like you say, especially with the yellow flag where you almost want it that someone is punished if they ruin someone else. his lap, right? Because you could cause a yellow flag and nothing happens. In which case, I don't really care if you're punished or not, but how could you mandate if does your yellow flag cause someone's lap to be deleted? Like, could you properly police that? If you could, then I'd like for that to be the rule, but probably worth more thought. I think I'm going to let you off this one. I think I think I agree enough with it. And I think it actually is a good debate topic that maybe we should implore,

maybe either for a Patreon exclusive or something else further down the line. But I'll let you off. No money for Dave today. No money for Dave. All of my effort in terms of lowering the sound volume of the gunges essentially gone to nothing because it didn't play the first time around. And we haven't actually needed it because we're both very smart individuals that know what we're talking about, clearly. Or we're equally as stupid and agree with each other.

People say that a lot, though. Yeah, they do. Great. I mean, no money for Dave, no 52P inflation included for him today. But if you wouldn't mind Sam getting us out of here, next episode will be the Saudi preview where a certain Mr. Harry Ead should be back in place. That's right, folks. We're back into the action in the middle of the week where we talk about the second race of the season. Will Red Bull maintain their dominance? Can Fernando a long-so challenge at the top? And do Mercedes or Ferrari have an answer for anything that's going on up the front? hopefully you'll join us for that and you're looking forward to the rest of the season. Of course, we're going to be here every single Wednesday and every single Sunday, whether it's a race or not. So I'm at your tuning.

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