The Late Braking F1 Podcast - Did team orders derail Piastri's title charge?

Episode Date: November 16, 2025

The LB boys are back together as they unpack Piastri’s admission that the Monza team-orders saga has affected his performance, debating whether it became the championship's turning point, and if he made the right call. They also dig into the potential sacrifices behind Red Bull’s late-season push, Audi’s early concept design, and close out with some Back and Forth. Want more Late Braking? Support the show on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Patreon⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and get: Ad-free listening Full-length bonus episodes Power Rankings after every race Historical race reviews & more exclusive extras! Give the 'gift' of Late Braking this holiday period with a Patreon gift subscription,⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and your favourite F1 fan can enjoy anywhere from 1 month up to a full year of top-notch F1 content! ⁠⁠https://www.patreon.com/latebrakingf1/gift⁠⁠ Connect with Late Braking: You can find us on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠X (Twitter)⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠TikTok⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Come hang out with us and thousands of fellow F1 fans in our ⁠⁠⁠Discord⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ server and get involved in lively everyday & race weekend chats! Think you can beat us? Join our ⁠⁠F1 Fantasy League⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and prove it! Get in touch any time at [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Hello and a very warm welcome to the late breaking F1 podcast presented by Harry Ead, Sam Sage, and me, Ben Hocking. look at where we are. It might not be an F-1 weekend, but we've decided we're pushing the boat out. We've actually just broken into someone's house, so we're in their lounge. Yeah, it's just their lounge. It's just the LB lounge.

L-B lounge, yeah, the L-B actually stands for lounge. That's how it works. Lounge-breaking. Lounge. I don't know. I don't think that's going to work. No? It's not going to catch up.

Okay. Rebrand. We'll come up with something new. Today's quest is how many topics can we get through until the person who owns this house comes in and it sees me brook in. What are you doing here? It's a new game show. we don't know when they'll come home.

Yeah. We'll break into your house from a couple of podcasts and leave. The worst crime ever committed. Well, and also, it's lovely to see you both, but I am very much seeing you both. It's intense. It feels like an interview,

but I'm being interviewed because you've got the two on your side. Can you shut your eyes? Oh, thank God, that's better. No, we can't see me. Good one. Shall we crack on with some F1 chat? Because we've got a lot to get through.

We might not have an F1 race this weekend, but we are going towards the end of the season, so plenty of discussion points. Some news on Audi coming up a little bit later on, Red Bull about whether their 2025 focus might hurt them in 2026. But let's start with Oscar Piastri, because speaking on the far inferior beyond the grid podcast, sorry, what did I say?

Oscar Piastri called his Baku weekend, the worst weekend I've had in racing. As to why it went so wrong, he described it as a combination of quite a few things, including his performance at the previous race in Monza and the position swap that happened between him and Norris at that Grand Prix. Firstly, Sammy, you're surprised to hear him admit this in what is very much a championship fight right now?

Yeah, I am surprised. There are some things you should keep close to your chest, and we've seen the mental games that a lot of F1 drives will play when they're going up against their rival. You saw it with how Hamwitting and Rosberg went off against each other. They're almost two separate camps in the same team. and so admitting that essentially a team swap that happened at a race has got into your head so much that apparently you had two large incidents

that put you out of both competitive sessions of a race day. That's quite a big door to open. It tells me that you can be messed with. It tells me that you're quite sensitive to these incidents happening around you. And instead of harnessing these frustrations and turning them into performance, you know, like Lewis Hamilton, we used to talk about when he grew angry. And you have like these 2018, 2019 performances of when Hamilton have a play. penalty or he get put to the back or you get taken out on a rare race.

The next time he turned up, it was almost like, oh gosh, Lewis Hamilton's here and he's actually angry behind the wheel and secondly he's 30 seconds clear of everyone. I want to see that from Piastri, not this kind of, oh, actually, this position is swapping monsoring all with me so much that I then crashed the car twice. Now, there's surely other variables going on here, but the fact that he's brought this out as a key factor in that poor performance for a whole weekend, I think it's a little worrying for someone who's in a championship fight. What do you think, Eric?

yeah it's it it's the comment you sort of expect to hear after the season's done and he's lost the championship or even won the championship but it's like uh well this did happen but mid mid fight um is an interesting interesting one to go for and maybe that's just the the change in culture of f1 but you're right sam if it was like lewis hamilton or max vastappen they're not going to be admitting any you know any uh any uh negative in their, you know, their mindset during the season, especially when we're getting to crunch time in this championship. So interesting timing on the, on the comment. And we've obviously spoken about Monza a lot, that move at Monza. But I think it was inevitable that it was going to come back and bite Piastri at some point. And it's clear it has, whether that's just Baku, I think probably it could be more than that. I don't know, because since then, it's not really gone that well for him.

But, but yeah, it's an intriguing one. I'm not sure what he's expected, why he thinks now's the time to be coming out with that, because I think psychologically it hands you an advantage to Norris, and Vastappen, he's right behind you. Like I said, you just wouldn't expect Vastappen to be admitting those sorts of things. I don't think most world champions would admit this. No.

After the season, maybe, maybe. But, I mean, most of the time, world champions don't really admit that they're wrong ever. So, no. Schumacher was famous for it. He always apologised. I'm sorry. It was his number one seg word. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Blimey, Jacquesville, nerve. I'm so sorry, mate. I didn't mean to go into the side of it. Oh, Damon Hill. I'm so sorry, but. I didn't see you there, son. Yeah, Cotney Michael.

I was shocked about this. Piaastri also goes into what went wrong at Baku specifically. So he talks about how he was very much overdriving the car throughout the weekend. He had an engine issue in FP1 that kind of hindered his progress as the weekend went on. And he really struggled with the C6 tire. Of course, the C6 tire has come under a bit of pressure this year as it hasn't operated in the way that Pirelli would have wanted it to operate. Obviously, they brought it as the softest tire in the range. They haven't used it at many locations. A lot of drivers, particularly Max Verstappen, have been vocal about this C6 tire saying

it's not fit for purpose and I think it might well disappear next year. Yeah, but they used it at Baku, and Piastri really struggled to get to grips with it, get it within that sort of very narrow operating window. The Margent Ferreira was so slim with it. Point being, he specifies three or four things that went wrong with the Baku weekend. He could easily have just left it at that. He easily could have said, that's what went wrong on the Azerbaijan weekend very specifically. That's why.

It would have been a perfectly acceptable answer. As far as I'm aware, he wasn't directly asked, did Monza, you know, hinder that Baku weekend? You know, it was, it wasn't even a back-to-back. It was two weeks between Monza and Baku, so he easily could have said that the time was enough to get over what happened at Monza. So I don't think Tom Clarkson, who he would have been speaking to, would have really followed up to see if Monza directly caused what happened. He's voluntarily provided the information and that answer, which did surprise me quite a lot. Because even if it's true, as to both of your points, I don't think he would say that now. At the end of the season, if he wins the championship, I think it's something you could say

because it's almost like, yeah, I won in spite of that. You should be worried. It does tell others that you said, Sam, it tells others that Piastri might be vulnerable and struggle to bounce back from an underpar result. And, like, Piastri had had such a strong year up until, really, Baku, that the first two-thirds of the year, really, he didn't need to bounce back. Like, he had nothing to bounce back from. He was just first, second, first, third, first. Like, he was just consistently churning out results. And now he's in this rut and he can't seem to get out of it. And to your point, Harry, I wanted to close with this. Did Monza cause Baku? He has admitted yes, at least in part, has it caused everything after Baku? maybe one of the surprising things as well because we've said all year how cool calm and collected piastri has been under any pressure like during races he's so horizontal you know when something goes wrong he's just like oh well that was annoying over the radio almost comedically so yeah yeah so now and i'm sure underneath the surface that's not true but that's just

how he's you know outwardly expressing himself to then sort of almost give that up is just an odd thing. It's a great asset to have, isn't it? Yeah, it's an odd thing to do. A highly intense situation. You know that he's the guy that just takes it all on board and is cool regardless. I think if he's going to use it as an excuse for the performance for the rest of the season, no excuse. You can't use that. I think that's, I think it's bordering on pathetic. Well, you have that good a season and you have one minor issue in your team, which isn't the first time this has happened when they're having these conversations. It's not a new scenario that's happening at McLaren when they asked to do the swap there.

You know, the similar thing happened, of course, in Hungary, and we had that whole debacle that went on. I don't think you can blame, what was it, five races since Baku. You can't blame that. He's not beating Norris once since Zangvort. That's the last time he outscored Norris. To have a, I didn't like a team order decision, affect your performance that much.

Something else has changed. Something else has been affected. It has not demoralized him that much, the Formula One driver, that he suddenly is unable to make up those two or three, There is something else going on in that team, whether it be the car, a shift in the setup, the way that they are bringing the car to these tracks. If he truly believes that it's that call that's affected him, he's got a real deep issue that he needs to work out because it will cost him time and time again moving forward. Harry, we often look at the end of the season, the end of a championship and try and look back at a certain moment, a certain race that might have been the defining moment, or at least one of the defining moments.

could that Monsa swap be the one for 2025? I think it could be because, I mean, of psychological damage aside from this, we don't know where we're going to end up points wise at the end of this year, but there's a scenario where there's a points difference, which is the loss he got from Monsa,

and he'll look back and go, he'll kick himself. Both drivers have been very loyal to McCorm, Claren and whilst we've spoken about how stupid they're, you know, racing rules or whatever are, there's the other side of these drivers are fighting for a championship. They may never get a chance again. And that's why it's so annoying. It was so annoying in the first place because they should just be fighting for the championship.

And there's a there's a real, real risk that Monsa decides the championship in a way, which is weird. You never want fans of either side to be able to call out a team. decision as the reason why someone did or didn't with the championship. Like, we don't like to go back to it. Abidabby 21. There is forever, whether you agree that the staff and won it fairly, you agree that

Hamilton should be the guy that won it. Whatever your decision, and fair enough either way, there is always the conversation of it was only done by X because Michael Massey got involved. And there is always that looming decision over the top. And no driver wants that. And no fan of a driver or a team

wants to have a, yeah, but they just want to win it. And I think Norris fans if he goes on to win, we'll want to be able to say, he was the better driver that year, he got the best points, he got the best results, he won it because he was the best driver across the whole season. Well, didn't it suddenly change after Monza? I just don't think they'll want that little bug bear in the back of their mind. I do think Monza is when everything turned on its head, and that's not to say it can't turn

back again. And I think from a neutral perspective, look, we don't have a fighter here. we just want to see an open championship and whoever deserves it deserves it, but if it does keep going the way that it's going, I think we could point to Monza as that defining moment. If Piastri keeps P2 at Monza, he leaves there with a 37 point lead in the championship,

and he's currently 24 behind, which speaks volumes as to how quickly this is really transformed against Piastri or for Norris, depending on which way you look at it. Last five races, as you've already said, some, no podiums in those five races at all. And if you look at points accumulated by the drivers in those five races, Verstappen 11, Norris 97, George Russell 82, Piastri, 42. And even Lecler in that toaster of, sorry, no, John Elkins here.

It's actually a great car. The best Formula One car ever made. Yes, my bad. Lecler in the greatest Formula One car of all time is beating Piastri as well. and Antonelli in the last five races have scored more points than Piastri. So he sits sixth in this little run. And yeah, in championship fights,

we always do try and look at one or two defining moments and see, was that the thing that turned everything? I look back to last year, and maybe it's more confirming than it is changing. But I look back to the Brazilian GP of last year, which was the whole of 2024 was Can Norris and McLaren catch Vastappan and Red Bull, who weren't as quick as they were.

where at the beginning of the season. And it gets closer and closer, and then Brazil happens. And it's just such a statement result. And this is very different, but I do kind of feel like it could be, could be Monsa that turned it. And fair play to Norris, because I think he had his version of that example, when he had the DNF, that could have been the moment that his head dropped, come back from the summer break, already behind, trying to build some momentum, your DNF.

Yeah. And your teammate goes on to win. And at that point, you sit there and you go, what can I do? bulletproof. It has one mistake a year, and it's mine. And I imagine that Norris could have had that mindset. And I wouldn't have blamed him for having that mindset. When you're a car that has so few issues, when you're the car that gets the problem, you go, I guess that's game over. What else can I do? I've got such a mountain to climb up. But he didn't let him affect it. He went on one of the best runs he's having his whole career after that point. And the other DNF he had this season, Canada,

if I've got the calendar right, next race after that was Austria, where he put it on pile by. bounce back, brilliantly. That's still the biggest poll margin of the season that Norris has... I held off his teammate who was sniffing his tailpipe for an entire, what, 72 laps? Breaking up TP. Goodness of me. Big up tailpipe. I've got this, I'll be.

Yes. Does he regret this decision? Piastri? The Monza decision, not talking about this. No, the Monza decision. Should he have gone against the team? Yeah, I think you should, but I think we'd probably. would have said this at the time as well

because like I said earlier this could be that could be the deciding factor points wise for whether he's a one time or a naught time or a champion and it will you know if he does win the championship at the end of the year we'll forget it basically because he'll

have one it won't matter but if he doesn't which at the moment is looking more more likely currently in his current form then yeah like as we're talking about now Mons is going to be I think signalled as one of the one of the turning puts because for Piastri for the rest of the year, as you were saying, he was so consistent and quick and winning.

There's not many other mistakes you can point to. Monza onwards has been a bit of a disaster class. So, yeah, I think if it does go wrong for him, if he does lose, then we're going to point to Monza as the turning point. Is there a case to say that he was, obviously we're talking in hindsight here, he needed to make a decision in the moment? Was he playing the percentages? He had a 31 point lead or so at the time.

time. He's been great all season long. He knows that we've still got a third of the championship left. He needs his team on side in order to win that championship. Could you understand the decision to say, live to fight another day? 100%. And I think that's how he's played this whole season. We've seen moments where he's been cutthroat with any moves he needs to make and he pulls out the performance out the bag early on when it was required. And then there's been times where he's gone, I can sit back. I'm ahead. I can sit back. And when you come off a win like he just had the race beforehand or your teammate didn't score any points and you go do I swap I give him a couple of extra points no issues the team are happy I'm happy they might do me a favor if it

swings back the other way in the next grand prix there's a lot of logic there when you drive at 200 miles an hour you've also got to make all these choices it's intense it's a lot going on I think in that moment I think he'd make the choice again I don't agree with the choice I think if you're going to be a world champion you've got to be as cut throw as they come and the The line that always resonates with me is, was Brazil where Verstappen was asked to help Sergio Perez out to score second in the championship after he's already won the championship. And he still went, don't ever ask me to do that again. Live on feed, over team radio, and to me, that's a world champion. I don't care if you sound like an ass over the radio.

This is your livelihood. This is your dream. This is the thing you spent your entire upbringing trying to win. You climb over everyone to win it, and you assert yourself. And I don't think he did that. And I think McLaren are still juggling around with who gets could do what. I want a driver to go in there, own the situation, win the title, move on. It was such a tough decision.

And it's maybe one of those where having the lead in the championship hasn't helped him. And it was maybe falsely comforting looking at that, whatever it was, 30 point lead saying, I can afford this. I can live to fight another day. I don't need to win this race. I can take, I don't need to finish second here. I can take the three-point deficit to ensure McLaren are happy with me for the rest of this year and are going to help me in every way they can.

It's just proof that how quickly things can change. Because I think if you had said to Piastri at that point, in six races time, you're not going to be leading the championship. He probably would have said, I've clearly had a tough run. But, hey, surely I'm only a couple of points behind, still got something to fight with. It's 24. Like, it's really changed very quickly. I think I saw someone work out that if he hadn't given up,

position in Monza and then the rest of the results have played out exactly the same way. He would have gone into Brazil four points clear rather than being one point behind at the start of the sprint race. And it's just, it's little moments like that in your mind that could be motivational. I've got to hold on to something rather than claw something back. It might just change how he approaches the race. So it is tiny margins in Formula One. You've got to take what you can get. Well, we'll see how he does in the last three races, Vegas, Qatar and Abu Dhabi. We're going to take our first quick break on this episode on the other side with chatting Red Bull.

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And Mecky said, if we thought this would compromise 2026, we would not be doing it. We know it's a price to pay. We think it's reasonable and we think it's worth it. It's an interesting one. Obviously, they've come back into the championship fight, but it doesn't look like it will be enough at this stage. Still not completely over. What do you make of what Meckies is saying here? That statement has really irks me.

there's a direct contradiction in his own statement. You know, if we did this thing, we wouldn't think it would cost us. And what we've done, we won't cost us too much. So it is costing you or it isn't costing you. Either way, it is not affecting you at all or it is affecting you a little bit. At the base of it, you've only got so much wind tunnel time. You only have so much development time that you're allowed to put into these cars. And that time is spread across your current car and your future car.

You don't get separate time to only work on the new car. you get hours. Those hours are given to you and that's how you choose to use them. You can put me in the wind tunnel for 50 hours if you want. You won't make me anymore. I would hate to see that, by the way.

50 hours. Not in a car, just you. Just me. Fighting the wind. Like that Michael Jackson. It's a bag of. My point here is, I think this is a very futile expedition for them.

To win one and sacrifice many doesn't make any sense to me. It's the old train. track analogy. Why would you divert the train to take out the group rather than the one? Wing five titles. You don't know who's in the group to be. I mean, that's true. If you could win, let's say, between 2026 to 2030, they could win three of the next five titles by not diverting, by focusing on 2026 rather than focusing on this year, you take that over possibly winning the 2025 title and not winning any of the 2026 or 2030 titles. This just feels like a real

waste for such a short, quick, almost like a cash grab, a quick wing. It's great to see you drive a win the title, but Max Verstappen isn't stupid. Max Stappen will rather see, I think, long-term, consistent development that means you can go another generational run of winning two, three, four titles again, rather than just a, oh, yeah, thanks for really trying, guys, thanks for really trying. I didn't win this one. Oh, and I'm not going to win any of the next five. Great, thanks.

It just feels like with a little bit of hindsight, a little bit of thought. This feels like a real waste of resource in time for me. I really think they've thrown it out of the bag and I think this partnership with Ford's really important you could get off to a bad start. What do you make of make easier statement and Red Bull strategy for this second half of the season? It's an interesting one, isn't it?

Because there aren't many teams, if any, that are bringing upgrades and still trying to develop that car. It's also, this is a tricky thing because if we get to 2026, start of next year and the Red Bull is excellent, then it won't really matter. I will eat my hat. Well, you heard of here first. I don't wear a hat.

but you'll have to eat it I'll find one to eat a chocolate hat you're just eating an invisible hat look at me Lauren Beckies

I'm eating my hat you should stop promising to to do that sort of thing because do you remember eating pasta yeah no one remembers that

oh you remember that cubitsa got a point yeah no it was even down it was like QBitsa was like got through Q2 or something

it was something silly I said that Cubits will never achieve it and then he achieved it and I ate pesto pasta out of my ewes I call it a slippy Wow, okay

You shouldn't, but all right You should have born slippy Anyway Yeah, if we get to next year And they are quick Then we'll forget this You know, this chat even happened But it's a real risk

And we've said this before Yes, they could win a championship In 2025 As you said, looking a little less likely now But potentially the cost of being bad in 2026 And now, I know an F1 car is not designed by one person. If they still had Adrian Ui in the team, I'd be like... It could be designed by one person.

Well, exactly. But I think I'd feel more confident about this strategy than I am now for Red Bull. And that's not to disregard all the very clever people that work at Red Bull. But, yeah, I think they run the real risk of being, at least starting next year, you know, a step back, which is a real risk. And I think we've said this before, if Red Bull want to keep Max Verstappen, they need, as you said, they need consistency. And I think there's more a risk of if it's bad next year, he goes rather than it's bad this year because we know he's staying. Could rather be bad at the end of a technical direction then at the start of a technical direction. It takes ages to rebuild.

Who cares if you slope off right at the end? Yeah. Sorry, just like if you were to sit down with Verstap and say, I don't know, before Monza or. at some point, like around the summer, Brian, to say, look, we've had a really tough runner form. We don't know if we're going to be able to recover it this year. We are just going to shift focus to next year. You might have a slow car for the rest of this year. Is that something you're willing to put up with for the sake of a better chance of the championship next year?

Do you think Vestappen understands that? Do you think he fights back against that? I think Vistappen understands that. I worry if he has other people around him who don't. That's the problem. Yes, that's the problem. He's a really switch shoppern, yes. Other Verstappen, yeah.

Verstappen Senior, which is maybe why they have gone for this. Who knows? We'll never find out, well, at least we won't find out for a while, the true fallout from the Christian Horner sacking. But maybe that was, maybe he was saying, look, we're going to sack it off this year and try again next year. And the Vostappan camp weren't happy about it. I think Max himself is very, I think he'd be like, all right,

he'd be moan about it for the rest of the year. He'd mowed, but he's probably, But he's problematic, yeah. And I think he'd understand. I think there are probably other people around it that wouldn't necessarily understand or I think maybe slightly more short term. Or it's an entire game and they're happy with it

because if it's terrible next year, then it gets for stopping out of Red Bull anyway. He's got an excuse to go. So maybe it's all a game. I don't know. But it's a risky one. And as you say, what's the reward here? Maybe getting,

I'm obviously a five-time champion five times in a row. but it's a tall order currently with any four races to go. At most, even at Monza, it was what, like a 30% chance that you could go on to maybe win this at that point? He was further back at that point. So telling him, you can maybe win this title, mate, or there's like an 80% chance when you get you a car that could win the next three.

I just feel like any normal person playing their odds a little bit, might go, I'll probably take a chance at the next three rather than maybe winning this one. Or is for Staffen's mentality a bit more race to race? spoken before how his ambition was to win one title and he didn't necessarily care how many followed it and we sometimes say like he just wants to win the races that's in front of him maybe he's looking at the rest of this season and saying I want to fight for some wins I think that's all well and good but I don't think that's true of his overall mindset I think that's

really short-sighted if he genuinely genuinely only actually looks at the next race why would you become a racing driver if you didn't want to try and win a title I mean we seem with fun of us that he goes and races GT3s around a nerve-growing or spot like he just likes going to race it. He does. Maybe he just... His hobby and job is the same thing. Yeah, it just, he just wants to do another race, so maybe it is that, do

I know. Overall, I think you're both very sensible. We are. But I agree with Red Bull going for this. I am glad they've gone for this because... I'm glad for the jump. I'd like the jamper. Well, yeah, yeah. I'm glad for the content. I'm happy they've

tried it because even if it does go pear shape for them next year, which maybe it does, I just think if you are within a shot of winning a championship, regardless of what year it is and when it falls in a regulation cycle, if you're not going to go for it, what are we doing here?

Like, there is a part of me that is just like, we're here to go racing and to go winning, and if there's a chance at winning in front of you, go for it with everything. And I've always accepted with the likes of Williams and Salba slash Audi, you're not going to put a lot of focus into 2025 because you're not going to be winning this year,

no matter you can improve the car for the whole year and get up to fifth place in the championship, but that doesn't matter. We're here to win races, we're here to win championships. And I feel like if Red Bull, and this is maybe the curse of having Vastappen, because I think if Red Bull didn't have Vastappen,

they would have shut this thing down. And I don't think there's maybe another driver on the grid that could have convinced, I'm not even sure Vestappen convinced them, but, like, Vestappen's ability would be able to convince them to keep this going. But Vastappen is that, he's that dude, he's that guy. Do you think that if he was further back in the championship come Zangvort, they go, I'll pack him?

I think that, yeah, there's a point, but I think that the threshold is different for Vestappen. Yeah. I think if any other driver is in that Red Bull alongside Yuki Sonoda, and they are as far away at Zanvort, Monza, as Vastepen was, I think they're more inclined to go No, that's it. But that Vastappan, he can drive. That bloody Max. This is a complete side note, but on the point of Vastapen being that guy,

have you seen the onboard from O'Con doing the pit lane start? Wow. And Vastappen's in front of him. And he is gone. I have not seen this. He's so gone. Like the green light comes on. And obviously Ocon's just behind him.

And then just Max has gone. He's round the corner before. I've never seen a pit exit on the limit as much as Vastafin is. Was this at South Wales? Yeah, Brazil, yeah. He is like hustling that car out of the pit. Guy. God, I love that. I live for that.

Yeah, but I think it's a very valid point. Like, will their failure this year or will their attempt to have success this year cost them the Vastappan in 2027? It's because if Mercedes come out and are dominant or not even dominant, just really competitive and Red Bull aren't there, then Toto.

is going to be ringing. We spoke about the phrase six-pointer. And it will be like that. If Red Bull come out and they're not great, that's one thing. But if Mercedes come out and they're amazing and Red Bull aren't great, it's swung both ways for the Stappen to go that way. They can lose on two fronts very quickly that the car isn't as good and they've lost their star driver in the space of a season.

There were two really interesting comments that came off the back of Laura Mekke's comments. one from Andrea Stella, one from Helmut Marco. I've seen the Stella one. Andrea Stella says we could not do what Red Bull have been doing without compromising 2026. So in really directly against what Meckies are saying. Helmut Marco has said in 2021, we went for the championship last year of a regulation cycle.

We didn't do too bad in 2022 when the regulation cycle started. I would point out Mr. Helmut Marco. Didn't start very well, did it? Well, true. Also, there was a certain Adrian Newey there at that point, but what do you make of both of those comments? Do they both have a point? Do you go towards one more than the other? Newee is a cheat code for a start. When you're on GTA, you need to enter a cheat code for the best car. You went to Newell. N-E-W-U-R. Garage opens and a Formula One car rolls out. That's how it works. And that's what Adrian Newee does. If the GTA-5 characters were F-1-R-R-R-Brus. Well, that's a beer-breaking topic. We're going to do that, later. going on Patreon. I'm going to wear the cameras. It's up there. Sorry, someone else is loud. I don't know where that's CCTV is.

You! Where's their ringed door? There's actually secret cameras in loads of different places. We've got Leaf cam. I've got candle cam. I've got Vars can. Anyway, you know, I lean towards Stella. And I think if you look at regulations in bygone eras, rarely, so rarely is the previous championship leader from the previous era, then immediately the most successful team afterwards as well. You saw that with how Red Bull transitioned into the hybrid era with Mercedes. Immediately they were a third or fourth fastest car. Okay, it was power unit dependent, but it was a power unit championship. It's a power unit championship. That's very important. That's what matters. And they got it wrong. They got it wrong. And you look at the ones that happened

before that as well with the transition, the way that brawl were winning the 2009 championship, purely because of the double diffuser, which was a loophole that they found and all else did, which was a technical change that they got right. It won them that championship. Now, Red Bull going from 21 to 22 and winning is almost a perfect storm kind of thing where Mercedes had been so dominant, I think, wanting to win the 21 championship. So they got knocked off their perch. Ferrari are Ferrari and then McLaren was still rebuilding as a team. They were not even close to where they are right now.

You've got to remember that 2017, 2018. I think McLaren were ninth in the championship, eighth in the championship. They were struggling for a lot of that season. So it doesn't shock me that actually Red Bull got it right on that one occasion. I'm much more sick with what Stella's saying now in the sense of, like I said earlier, you only have so much wind tunnel time, you only have so much development time, you're costing yourself because you're not putting it on the new coach, the whole new set of rules, moving parts are coming into play.

You've got this mum system, still hilarious. It's called mum. Mum. I am mum. Dura's is gone. Mums are in. And there's so much going on with. that. You've got a brand new power unit supply coming in in the sense of Ford, who have not

raised in Formula One for God knows how long. I think they were Cosworth the last time they're actually in Formula One. And that's a lot to deal with. New is gone. Along your high-ranking, you know, members of your team have gone. You've got the second driver situation that is still going wrong. It's too many issues collecting together that the fact you're not developing the core part, the car, is worrying. And I do think they're going to cost some self-performance. I think Stella is right. and he has way less variables to worry about. Is the outlook for Red Bull better or worse than when Mecky's took charge? Better, I think mainly because they just don't have the controversy

that's flying around that team. Tough question, though. Yeah, he's done, you know, I think he's done a good job being thrown at the deep end. You know, he just woke up one day with a tech saying, your team principal of Red Bull now, bye-bye. Hello, CEO. So I think from that respect,

being, you know, starting mid-year through the season, I think he's done a good job. He seems to be quite open with the media, but with, you know, with the drivers and everything. So, yeah,

I think, I think it looks brighter than I think it was this time last year where Red Bull were in terms of just the management, etc., the controversy around that. But I was just to say, On the point about Helmarco and Andrea Stella,

that BMW 2009, who spent all of 2008, basically, developing a car, fluffed it. Now, Ferrari 2020, yes, they started the year really well. They sacrificed 2020. They sacrificed 2021 for 2022. Yes, it started very well. It ended with the Claire screaming into a barrier and poor a car. Exactly.

That's it. It ended in France. Like the beginning of the European season. It's like 9 or 10 of the year. It didn't go wrong at like, I don't know, Qatar. It didn't go wrong. We don't even go to the summer break. Yeah.

The only team that have in a new regulation change that have dominated really have been Mercedes and I guess Red Bull. But Mercedes from the start, Red Bull didn't start this era particularly strong. They obviously won that year though. And then 23 was very strong. 24, they had challenges. towards the end. Obviously, this year they've not been at the top. And you go to look at Braun and 09, they had 09, but then Mercedes, 2010, 11, 12 or nowhere. So, yeah, even if next year isn't red, but I, I, there's not really been one team apart from Mercedes that has gone on

to dominate. So history may not repeat itself in that sense, but also with the Mercedes point, people often forget, yes, they dominated 2014, 15, 16, all the rest. 17 and 18 were fights, wouldn't they? Yeah, for three quarters of the season. Yeah. But, like, 2013, they improved a heck of a lot on what they had in 2012, 2011. Like, they, it was more qualifying based in 2013. They won races as well. It was clearly getting there before it got there.

Like, it was, it wasn't just overnight, everything clicked. I'm unsure, like, it's good not to have all of the noise. The noise being gone at Red Bull is a fundamentally good thing. But have the other issues really been fixed? Verstappen's future in the short term has long term probably hasn't but it's still a team that's too dependent on him and that hasn't changed maybe more than ever they are a one-person team

and Yuki Sanoda has not been the answer and he hasn't improved and we speak about the brilliance of Vastappan's drive in Sao Paulo going from the pit lane of P3 in the same race his teammate went from 17th to 17th and it just isn't carried across both cars. He was the only driver, not within five seconds of points. He was a minute behind his teammate who, again, started in the pit lane,

even if he did have the greatest outlap in the history of F1. And you can say, like, well, Red Bull didn't serve his 10-second penalty correctly. Absolutely true. You can say that they left him on a poor setup, and they didn't change it in the same way that they did for Vestappen. But that's the goddamn point. Like, you are not prioritizing your second. driver in any way that you are just relying on. If you don't have an outright dominant car like

you had in 2023, you aren't going to win a championship because as good as Verstappan is, he's still only one person. And they are relying on not only having a dominant car themselves, they are relying on McLaren falling back, Mercedes not having everything put together for this new era, Astor Martin and Adrian Newey, that not worth. You're relying on so many things and maybe one or two of them happen. But I don't think they're all. going to happen. So until that issue is solved, it's tough for me to say outright the future is much brighter. Yeah. I think what's crazy is if you were to remove that second red ball car from the whole season, they still be in the same place in the championship. Yeah. It's a waste of money.

It's a waste of resource. It's a waste of effort. If you're not going to bother committing something to that second seat to improve it, don't run one car. It's that pointless for you right now, genuinely pointless, because that's how few it scored the whole year. Okay, let's take our second break on this episode. On the other side, we're chatting Audi. Welcome back to the third part of today's episode and we're now going to chat Audi because it has revealed images showing what it calls a concept design of its 26 F1 car. It's R26 concept shows how its car could look under the new technical regulations next year. CEO Gernod Dolis said the team intends to be a championship contender within five years, saying we're not entering F1 just to be there. We'll get to that part of

things in a little bit, but let's start with what this car looks like. Obviously, unsponsored, unbranded, we're not expecting this to be all too close, but it might give us an idea on what colors they lean towards here. And of course, we have some other livery news that we can get to as well. But what did you make of this design car? It's interesting. I really like the way these new Formula One cars look. I didn't think I would because they look very, very different to what we grew up with. I know it sounds a bit like, oh, back in my day, oh, wow, when I was 1912. James Unwood, Roses. There are a lot of changes, but it is a new era. And that's okay. You've got a lot to learn, a lot to adapt with. But I like how it looks. I think it looks smart. It looks modern.

I like the way that the aerop pieces to be put. And of course, we didn't see everything because this is a concept car. There's going to be a lot missing. But they look very compact, one piece of material, one piece of carbon. There's got loads of bits hanging off it, the cars that we had at the start of the teams where they had so many aerodynamic features on the car. We've stripped all that back. And I quite like how this car looks. And speaking of Audi, that fanta fruit twist color that they have on that Audi is glorious. I love that almost day glow neon orange that is painting in that car. I want to see more of that color and less of silver and black.

I think they'll lean on silver. I know they will because the world hates me. Yeah. But I want to see fanta fruit twist Audi. Oh, yes. That car, I think, is going to look like a 2016. Hasse. I will explode.

I mean, silver, red, black. That's silver being the primary. Yeah, Hass was great, though, because of bird boring. Okay, yeah, it might not quite be the same. If they want to make it like the 2008 McLaren, but have the day glow orange and see it on the vulgar phone red,

I can get a ball with that. We're all a chrome Audi with day glow orange, sponsored by Fantafruit Twist. That's what I immediately thought of was the sort of 07-08 McClaren. But I need more chrome. the black on the back I didn't like it I mean controversially I've never liked that you don't like that car at all do you

no never like that livery such a weirdo design choice of a mole and what did you make it what it look like I really liked it I'm a sucker for a simple livery and that was just I know obviously as you said it's sponsored us

at the moment but yeah it was just very clean and you're right the car that's cool is in the 26th 26 style car obviously not the final product Gladsy barge boards are back obviously Big up the barge

hashtag big up the barge Big up barge simpson New merch coming, 26 Big up barge Simpson Good But yeah I thought I thought the car that's really slick And yeah I'm if it's

I don't mind the silver But I do like that 06, 07-08 McLaren So if it's something like that With a was some As you said, Fanta Fruit Twist style Kerski, insert a photo. Boys love it. Insert three boys and then love for Fantafruit Twist.

And the Audi livery, apparently. I love the Audi livery. One of those circular diagrams that I forgot the game of, then diagram. Yeah, yeah. That's it. Thank you. Circular diagrams.

Thank you, Mr. Elkin for teaching me about secondary school. But yeah, I was a big fan. I quite enjoyed that they've done this event in the first place. You know, a lot of teams would wait until next year before they, well, certainly Cadillac, look like they are. Excite news with Cadillac as well. Perez getting some track time in an old Ferrari. In an old Ferrari.

It looked cool. That's a separate point, but cars with no deliveries, just in all black testing is like the Renault from a few years. Oh, God, that black and yellow Renault is, God, they even start. It was started. Does things to me like, with the yellow three of Daniel Ricardo on it.

Jeez. So, yeah, I was a big fan. I thought it looked. thought it really slick and I know these cars are still too hideously big but you could even tell for the outside

this does look like a bit more compact It's just too long yeah it's just too big in general like four and a half meters long that's crazy

it's like 11 foot long yeah Ben was checking them up yeah that probably checked out it's Shaquille O'Neal and a bit long Shaquille O'Neal and a little bit more

yeah And his, and his, a little bit of his leg. A Warwick Davis stood on his head. Because what image? Oh, man. I think, as I said, I think they'll probably lean towards the silver here. Obviously, they've got Revolute coming in as the lead sponsor for Audi next year. But I don't think, unless I'm mistaken, Revolute don't really have much of a

colorful brand. Like, it's pretty black, isn't it? It's just, yeah. Can I say I remember what Revelyte's branding is. Hello, Revelyte. I think it's fairly nondescript. So what I mean is it's not like a BWT sort of situation where you know that's going to drastically change what this car looks like.

I think it will just roughly... Their cards are blue and pink. Wow. Here we go. Here we go. Yay. Alpine 2.0. I'm not sure how that works with the day glow orange, actually.

My instinct is that they won't focus too much on the red because Ferrari. They won't go too much on the black because otherwise they might look a lot like Haas. And I think they'll probably then lead on the silver is my instinct. Audi have always had the four silver rings, right? That is their core brand. I just, everyone knows my points on this. I need some colour, which helps because there's a new change in the rules. There is a change in the rules.

This came out yesterday, so it wasn't initially on the schedule, but feeds in quite nicely to what we're talking about here. And that is that the FIA has mandated at least 55% of your car next year will need to be non-carbonized, let's call it. Painted or stickered. Yes. I mean, of all of the three of us, you're definitely the one with the biggest opinion on this one.

Yeah, quite passionate on me coloured cars that go out there on the next track. I like a bright track, okay? I like seeing brand identity on this. That's why Ferrari's so brilliant what they do. It's red. Whether you think it's ugly or not the HP thing, but you can tell what a Ferrari is when you see a Ferrari. Now, I've got two bugbearers.

currently in Formula One, one is too much carbon, and I don't think this addresses it. 55%. It sounds great that they've come out with some kind of mandate that says you need to cover an X%. 55% is just half. Picture that on a road car. Imagine if you picked up a mini-cooper and you put a mini-cooper on the street and you put 55% of that painted and 45% of that carbon fibre, it still looks pretty carbon-fiber to me. That would cover a log of the car, so that worries me that they haven't actually gone

far enough. I would like this to be 75%, 80% would be painted or stickered, and then 20 to 15% would be carbon fibre. So I don't think this does that enough. The other thing I wanted to see that they haven't done is mate teams have a core colour that is represented by only them. We've got too many blues. You look at the colour graphic down the side of the timing board. There's about seven to eight cars, there has to be an even understand. That's how teams work. There's about eight cars all have a shade of blue that is almost identical. The Racing Ball, the Williams, and then the Alpine are all so, and then the Red Bull, which fortunately is usually so far away that it doesn't matter in Max Verstappen's case,

are all different shades of blue. And it's just, where's your branding? It's so tough to see the branding. That's why I thought the white Red Ball was so good. That's why I love it when you see the likes of Mercedes come out with something a bit different. It just produces an eclectic brand or Formula One where you can get behind your team and has actual branding to it. I think these two things need to come out properly.

I don't think they've done enough with the 55% rule that they've come out with. Yeah, I'm of the same opinion that I think they could have bumped this up a bit because this is one of the, in theory, easy ones in that no team can really turn around and say, oh, we're massively disadvantaged by this because it's the same for everyone. Like, if everyone's playing by the same rules, I'm not quite sure why you couldn't stretch to 70% or whatever it might be. What did you make of this? Yeah, in agreement, I think 55% is, is.

You look at the cars now, they're probably 55%. So we're probably getting at the same anyway. I'd argue more. You look at the Ferrari. I mean, it's got the little black bit on the back, which is not nice at all. But that thing's pretty red. Yeah. That's, yeah.

You know, I'll argue that's maybe 15% on the back of that Ferrari in total. The rest of it, red. I don't know whether this has been done for just year one because teams are already worried about weight. They have dropped the weight significant. For the 26, 26 regulations. So maybe, I don't know, maybe this will get bumped up. but it is a bit of, it doesn't, I'm glad that there is a mandate now and teams can't be, you know, there's like Williams a couple of years ago, an Alpine, they basically had no colour on them

at all, that Alpine? Oh, just like a sticker on the side, but, yeah, so I'm glad there is a mandate. It's a shame it's not, it's not more than 55. It's like they've gone, well, we can't say 50 because people are being annoyed, so we'll just go for 55. Yeah, well, I would like to see the logic for maths behind how they worked out 55%. Also, how are they going to police this? And what do they do if there's not? 55%.

What have you, 54%. Ockong will get a penalty. Five cents on every car that is under. Yeah. Anyway, interesting to see how, but is it just a person coming along and being like... It'll be me.

Cover it. I'm going to be there with a little 30 centimetre metre flexi room to get to school. Count them all out. Shatterproof. Shatterproof, of course. We want to harm the children.

When anyone think of the children. It'll be out of context. The other change that the FIA made not to liveries, but in sort of the same announcement, I think. Permanent numbers for drivers, it will be no more. So you can change. You can change your number now. Yeah.

That's stinky. I hate that. I don't think it'll affect anything if I'm totally honest. I mean, it's nice that if someone goes, I made a mistake. I was like 20 years old and I came in and I picked 69, someone please, eventually. Someone's going to pick six, seven, are they? Someone's going to do it. It'll be Isaac Hadger.

Oh, you know what, if it is, I respect it. The brisler. And every time he wings, he'll get out of the car. That'll be his pogium celebration. I get it, though. If you, I don't mind a change. I just don't want people to be like, hey, one year, I'm going to pick 23. And actually, I'm going to pick 49.

And you kind of like, can you just sit to one, please? Because obviously, the staff had picked 33 because he wanted three. And Daniel Riccardo at that point, he'd already picked three. He won't change from 33 to three. It's his brand now. My MX33 is his thing. But imagine if he did. That'd be weird.

All of a sudden, if he just went to three. I want them to be like Kimmy Reikeren and just keep the number because they had it last year. The first one available. Yeah, I had seven last year. I got seven. Got after a good numbers. I'd give me the first one. Back to Audi because, as mentioned in the quote,

there is a target that they've put in place to be a championship contender by 2030. Realistic? I don't know. I don't know. But is it realistic as at least as a target, even if it doesn't happen, is it realistic to have that sort of? It's great to have a goal. I think it's great. I think to be very competitive come the end of what we expect to be this regulation cycle.

Yeah. That makes a longer sense to me. I don't think they'll be winning titles by 2030. But if they've had race winners, if they're sitting on the podium a few times a season, I think that's solid. Four or five years on F1 to suddenly become fighting with the likes of where McLaren are now, when Mercedes had been for a decade and a half, Ferrari, who, always the bride's made, apparently.

You know, that would be very, very strong as a brand performance to go from nothing. I mean, they're taking over Salva right now, who have had one podium since, God knows how long, all the way through to maybe being regular podium cities or race winners in four to five years' time. I think that's a really successful journey. I think title contenders, a little bit overly ambitious. I could see it. I mean, five full seasons is a good amount of. time. I think with the way that the cost cap works now, it's almost easier to be competitive,

but maybe slightly more difficult to make that last jump, because despite having the powerhouse of Audi behind you, which will help, but it won't necessarily, they can't just outspend. And that's not always a strategy that works anyway. Ask Toyota. That doesn't always work, but does help. So I think 2030 is about right. What do you think, Harry? I think so. And, I'm apparently a Mario Tyson in disguise today, referencing BMW again, the last time Samoa were taken over by a German manufacturer. Assume him's related to Mike. No, spelled differently.

Oh, it's a real shame. Yeah, Mario isn't spelled by Mike. Tyson brothers. But they took over Salwa in 2006, and by 08, I know they gave it up, but they were arguably title contenders. bits I was leading the championship before they gave up on that car. Salba was also better, though, at 06. So we'll get his now.

05 Salba versus 2024 Salba. I think it was pretty Shatvillan of a master driving it. I don't think it was any different. Sensational generational generational line. Huge duo. What do you mean? That's some epic world champion and some scrub from Brazil. That's a great line.

Hey, Chapman isn't Brazilian. But, yeah. So, as you said, it doesn't all, manor doesn't always mean anything because you reference Toyota, which they spent all the money and didn't win a thing. Do you even put the car out? When they spent all that cash in, what was it, 2009? So, yeah, it might not. But I think it is 20, 305 years feels like a realistic opportunity to be fighting for wins,

at least, but maybe a championship. Who wins a championship first? Audi or Ferrari. It's always the answer that's not Ferrari. Okay. I'll remember that going through life. Sam or Ferrari? Sam.

In the wind cycle. Dave Benson Phillips or Ferrari? Dave Benson Phillips. Hey, that was good. Someone referenced out of there. I mentioned Dave Benson Phillips again. Big up DPP. Yeah, that guy might like him a bit too much.

I don't know. Keep your gung-shy yourself. Before we go to our final break, I thought it would be quite fun. We've got some bold predictions still to come, obviously, in our preview episodes for the last three races. But I thought we could do one bold prediction for the rest of this season. It could be absolutely anything. Do you want to go first time?

Alping will get a top five. you think Alpine will get a top five Yeah The other 15 cars retired Correct Do you think is it Is it a Something goes weirdly wrong

And they somehow end up there Or is it you actually believe I don't want to say the hype But believe that Brazil was Actually a step forward And not just a weird one I believe in Pierre Gasley Yeah

If I'm honest He I think he's such an underrated driver I think you give him a sniff If a good car He will drive his heart out And I do think there was something in Brazil. And I think the tracks more closely relate to Brazil that we've got coming up than they do the likes of Monsa or previous tracks where they've struggled with that outright speed.

So, yes, things will need to go wrong. It will not be a he's there on pace alone, comes home in fifth place. I need a few retirements. It'll need your crash or something, don't get me wrong. But I think him floating around the back end of the points, and then a safety car comes out at the right time, I think it could happen. And look, it's bold. It's pretty not going to happen because we've got, what, six right across the whole year as a team?

We're nailing bowl predictions this year. Yeah, it's bad. What have you got, Harry? Ferrari will win a race. Same as me. Pick a driver. And whoever gets... No, you got there first.

That's a easy-you-lose, you lose, boy. God, the biggest thing's up to Lewis Howlton ever. Luke O'No. Yeah, well, I just... I don't know, because look at the Clare's form in the past couple of races. Obviously, he got murdered in Brazil, but I'm not saying he could have won in Brazil, but I think he would have been in that, in the discussion of the, at the end of the of that race.

So I think they're I don't believe John Elkins the car's improving but I think there's something there and I think Leclare's

Hamilton is sometimes sometimes not but Lecler has been up there quite consistently I think he's got a clothing line now and that

which adds to Harry's point yeah understandably that makes the car faster yeah so it does it looks nice

wearing go faster underwear I'm sure it's all sold out but Shal if you'd like to send me the 16 hoodie well here's what

This podcast gets a lot of views, so you might need the help. Definitely more views than he gets. I reckon so. That post, when I saw it, had 1.5 million likes. We have over 10 million downloads. That's all I'm saying. The numbers don't lie. The numbers do not lie.

It's more than post? Lifetime downloads. Go away. Compare it apples with something that's not apples. Yeah, this is an empire. Don't want you got, Shell. I went for the same as you. Ferrari won't go winless this year.

I just, I feel like they'll sneak something in. Yeah, I've got a feeling about Vegas. Yeah, Abu Dhabi updates coming, lads. Dominates Abu Dhabi. Like, this just can't be touched. Ferrari won two. Like, oh, we got it. We've done it, boys.

Yeah, Vegas could be weird. Qatar, if we have this mandated two-stop, which has been discussed, maybe. I don't know. I could also see as well, if Verstappan gets a bit gung-ho desperate needs all the wins. Bowling. We're going bowling. And Piastri maybe gets a bit more desperate, needing to get the point. You could see some retirements across the top three drivers.

And then Gassley will get into the top five. And Ferrari are sick and seven. You're not having the one time the Ockon wings a race, and they'll be second and third. And then it'd get disqualified, wouldn't he? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I actually had a bold prediction about Vegas, which I was almost going to make my year one, which I'm going to say now, I'll keep it for the one that we have.

I think Anting Annie could win that race. Sure. It's not like the most bold thing in the world. he obviously did great at Brazil. I think, I do think he's on the form of his career. I think he can win that Grand Prix. That will be my prediction when we get to it. Spoiler. Yeah. Spoiler. Tune in to hear the same thing that I've said the next time. Don't need to, that. Because bother.

When I run TV shows and they do the whole coming up next time, I just give away the main plot. The plot points. Yeah. Well, do film trailers. I reveal the end. Then he killed him. Come and see the film. Flok a button to happen. You'll enjoy the romantic section at the start. How much money that you forget that was your bold prediction when we come to bold predictions. It's a 50-50 chance.

That's how old to work. Oh, man. Right, let's take our final break on this episode on the other side. We're playing back and forth. Welcome back, everyone, to the final part of today's episode. It's time for back and forth. F1. Back and forth, it's F1.

Back and forth, it goes backwards. Then goes forth, it's F1. Back and forth, F1. Right, back and forth. We are looking for today. You'll go back and forth on correct answers until one of you can't give a correct answer. Living rooms that we're binging. This one. End the game. I'll give you two strikes. I love that you don't, you don't decide the strikes until the moment. You live in the moment. It's a vibey kind of thing. I can't decide on that. But yeah. Strikes are a vibey thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was between one and two. I'm

I'm going to give you two. I want you to name the last 17 drivers to win a constructors title who have never won a driver's title. Okay. So anyone that has been on a team that has helped to win a contractor's title, but never won the driver's title. A day themselves have never won a driver's title. So we're talking number two, sir. We are talking poos. We are absolutely right. Sure. So I feel like maybe the first half of this list, you'll get through relatively easily. The second half may be more difficult. Who knows?

Harry, why don't you start us off? Sergio Perez. Sergio Perez is a correct answer. He obviously helped to win the Constructors title in 23 and in 2022, but never want a driver's title yet. Sam. Valtry Bottas. Valtry Bottas is a correct answer.

Five times, 2021, 2020, 2020, 2019, 2018 and 2018 and 2017. He helped Mercedes. Good one. win the constructed title. He was good. Mark Weber. Mark Weber is a correct answer. Four years for Red Bull 2010 to 2013.

Sam. Rubens Barakala. Rubens Barakello is a correct answer. Making a way to the naughty says here. I'm now done. That's it. The most entries on this list were six because he helped Ferrari win five Constructed titles in a row, but then also helped Braun win the constructors title in 2009.

I feel so hard to say it helped Braun like he was in that fight. But yes. Sort of. Just. Jeff. Felipe Massa, or the Brazilian scrub, as Ben's going to start calling him now. To be clear, folks, that was a joke. He's not afraid of a court case.

Yeah, he's coming after you. Oh, man, for $60 million. I told you, Char, we've got an empire over it. 08 and 07, absolutely right. Sam. David Coulthard. David Coulthard is a correct answer with two different teams. Williams in 1994 and McLaren in 1998.

Harry. Eddie Irvine. Eddie Irvine's correct answer, 1999. I'm now at a pass. I'm in pass, that's the word. Now, I'm just a pass. I'm past. Imagine that's how the game way

just went past, I don't know. I'm back to you. That's a correct answer. If you want it in, no year. Okay. It's so funny when you are having a normal conversation and you can recall so much information and then you're placing a game scenario

and can recall no information. There's two answers that you can definitely... Yeah, I know. I'm aware. I'm going on my brain. Fisichella. Fiskella is a correct answer, yes. 2006 and 2005. Harry.

Um... Uh... Frensen? Frensen is a correct answer, yes. Helped in 1997, but he didn't win the driver's title. Someone else did. I did. I don't know.

Yeah. I think he might as been his teammate, actually. The Brazilian scrum. Zadhaffield, no. Sam. Oh. I have a question. What if the driver that won the title that year

didn't come from the constructor that won the title that year? For example, Lando Norris. Lando Norris is correct. Hey! Hey, I've found the loophole. Just call me Adrian Nguer. Well, he hasn't won a driver's title. He's won two.

Can you pick something from the 90s? I really need the next one. I think I know what he's going to pick. I really need the next one. Oscar Piaz. He's the correct answer. Claren win the Constructed title last year and this year. See, we're moving on the roll here.

Back to you already. We've had four answers done. There are six answers left. Right, we've been done of three. You screwed the pooch here. Yeah, it's my fault. Thanks a response to me. Oh, man.

I only had both those in my head. I was just, well, they're not backups. I don't care what you're adding your head. Um, yeah, six answers left, Sam. Refused to answer them. Imagine if I was a silent girl for the rest of the show. You got two strikes, to be fair. We have got two strikes.

That's got the problem. The problem is having any kind of name that has been capacity ever in Formula One in my head right now, which is always the tricky thing. How far back are we going here? The furthest back is 1985. Okay. That's helped me a lot.

Good Lord. Yeah. Who didn't win a title all the way back then, and never did, but was really good. That is literally the aim of the game. That is pretty close to what the... If you haven't any of laymen's working out on how a game works, just come to me. Well, I'm struggling for an answer. I actually can't think of a name.

He's not right, but I'm just going to say it to move on to Harry, Jean-A-A-Lazy. Jean-A-Lazy is not a correct answer. But he fulfilled your criteria of didn't win a title but was pretty good in the 90s. There you go. Harry, back to you. Johnny Herbert. Johnny Herbert. Johnny Herbert wins. But not a title.

Constructors. Yeah. In 1995, he really pulled his weight, then. Sam. I'm out of answers, so I'm just going to keep moving on. But Brundle? Brundle, not a correct answer. Harry?

Petrazi. Petrazi's a correct answer, both in 1992 and in 1987. Very good. Oh, gosh. Very good. I'll give you a hint. Oh, God. I'm really a loser, Ben.

You don't need to go very far back for one of these. How far's not very far back? I'm a thousand years old. Well, you need to go back to the 1990s for all the other answers, at least. But one of these answers, you don't need to go anywhere near that far back. And we missed one from the Nortes. You might need to think about it a little bit more. Like, it's not obvious, but it is correct.

I don't like this. Not obvious, but correct. it's my least favourite. I'm trying to think of it. Have you got it? Maybe. I don't know. Have we got a standing driver?

Yeah, but I don't... I'm unsure. I didn't stipulate how many races these driving drivers. No, you didn't. No. Have they been mentioned on this podcast already? Yeah, surely they've been mentioned at some point. I don't know.

This is actually quite a sneaky game. I've realised, Ben, this, this, this, because there's a, there's, yeah. Yeah. Oh, I don't, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. So I'm trying to think of a drive that's sub-ding at some point. Like, Verst?

No, good shout out, but not Alex Verts. No, you go for it. Got any answers left? George Russell. George Russell's a correct answer. Oh, 2020. Of course. Lewis Hamilton.

On the other Mick Salo. Mick Salo, yeah, 1999 stood in for the microchie weekend. You've unlocked a door here. There are two more answers.

These are the oldest two on the two that you need to go further back. Come on history, boy. Berger. Yep, Gerhard Berger, 1991 and 1990. This last one is tough because I think he's subbed in.

What, in 85? 85. Come on, you've got history knowledge. I don't think I even know who won Who was a constructive champion is 85 Ferrari McLaren

McClaren I'm going to that wrong Stubbed in four I don't know In 85 He was This might have been his last ever season as well Like he's more commonly associated with the 70s

Crikey I don't know if I know I have Stefania Hanson in my head. Not Stefania Hanson, though. I don't know. He did race for McLaren in the 80s, though. John Watson.

Oh, Wattie. Whatty? The Wattage. Well, he stepped in in 85. Yeah, I think he must have stepped in for Louder. What was in my louder? I don't know if he finished. Did he not finish the season or something?

85. I mean, that was Louders last season, I think. Anyway, John Watson was the last answer on this list. So I think that's a pretty good job, as you say. A few sneaky ones in there. Yeah, I'm all right. Russell. I should have got that one. I think that's going to do it for this episode. Sam, if you wouldn't mind, getting us out of here. Folks, thank you so much for listening. I hope you've enjoyed this lounge that we're in this time. If you'd like to see us in another lounge, so please comment down below. Your address and we'll break you. We'll break in. We are not. Please have at least four cameras, a lighting system, and the recording studio, get store. Thank you very much. If you'd like to give the gift at Christmas, the ultimate gift, then you can pick up the Patreon gift card.

The Bingmen are welcome. Patriot City needs bin men. Okay, it's the one thing we haven't done yet. Harrying ever turns up. So, you know, the bins are piling high. They are piling high. It's free electricity, but there's no bin men. It's your shift this week, Harry.

Get on it. Where's the bin bands? The rats run rife in Patriot City. We are cleaning up. So give the gift of Patriot City to a listener that you think might love it. The comments down below, you could do a month. You could do many months. You could do a year.

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See you soon. You have a lovely little week. Oh, you take care of yourselves. And we'll see you in a week for a little bit of a Vegas preview in the meantime. I've been Samuel Sage. I've been Ben Hocking. I've been Harry Ead. And remember, keep breaking late.

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