The Late Braking F1 Podcast - Did Verstappen deserve a penalty for his defense from Hamilton? | 2021 Brazilian GP Review | Episode 160

Episode Date: November 14, 2021

Another quiet, normal 2021 F1 race in Brazil... The LB boys are here to break down all the talking points from a dramatic weekend at Interlagos, as Lewis Hamilton took victory and closed the gap in the championship.JOIN our Discord: https://discord.gg/dQJdu2SbAmSUPPORT our Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/latebrakingTWEET us @LBrakingSUBSCRIBE to our podcast! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This podcast is part of the Sports Social Podcast Network. This podcast is part of the Sports Social Podcast Network. Thank you for listening to the Late Breaking F1 podcast. Make sure to look out for new episodes every Thursday and Grand Prix Sundays. Hello and a very warm welcome to the late breaking F1 podcast, presented by Sam Sage, Harry Ead and me, Ben Hocking, Brazilian Grand Prix Review, where Lewis Hamill, He claimed victory and narrowed the championship advantage that Max Verstappen holds.

Bit of a boring one, wouldn't you say there, sir? Yeah, I mean, the warmest thing about it is the fact that I've left the heating on by accident today, and I've had to take my jumper off in the middle of November. I'm quite warm. The rest of the race, incredibly dull. I don't know what anyone's going to talk about for this entire podcast. Yeah, it's continuing the run of dull races in 2021, to be honest. Can't wait for the new regs.

Amen, Harry. Yeah, that's one. Bring on the regs. Bring on the regs. That was a bring on the wall reference, folks. That was, yeah. Neesh British TV references already in. If you haven't ever seen Bring on the Wall, go and look it off on YouTube.

Good, holding the wall, I think. Hold in the wall. But the cat phrase is, he goes, Anton Dubeck used to say, Bring on the wall. Oh, wait. You say Antoni Beck. It was Dale Winton before him. Sorry, God bless you, Dale.

We have gone well off course here, just like Max Verstappen and Lewis Hamilton at turn three. We need to get back on course. Nice, save. Yeah, we're going to be talking about that one later on, surprisingly, as well as a host of other F1-related things, not just niche British TV references.

Lewis Hamilton, of course, getting the championship advantage down to 14 points following his victory. Max Verstappen did pick up a couple of points in the sprint race, which means it was just a five-point swing between the two drivers. Hamilton, of course, having a very difficult weekend in terms of the five-place grid penalty and being disqualified from Friday's qualifying and still coming back to win. So Sam, do you think that this sort of result just proves that you can't count him out until it's mathematically impossible?

I mean, it's bloody Lewis Hamilton, isn't it? He's got seven world titles. He's got the most race swings of all time. He's got the most pole position. and then if I keep risking records, the podcast is going to be about four hours long. The man is incredibly successful for a reason, and it was a true classic Hamilton performance this whole weekend. The fact that, you know, I think Lewis kind of half-sass Toto Wolf on the final, the cool-down lap, the in-lap after the race finish, where Toto kind of said,

Lewis, that's how you overcome a 20-place disqualification. And Lewis was like, 25-place, man. you know that's how i do this thing it's like yep you've just gained 25 places and still manage to win a race you're right i kind of said in austria max wastappen has got this sewn up it is a done deal we are over and out championship is finished louis hamilton has said enough times it's not over it's not over it's not over still we rise he keeps saying on his social media and i think he he is thoroughly proved that until the uh the old fat lady sings until we cross the line for the final time in abadabby this championship is still very much on with only 14 points

between it, if Mercedes can carry an advantage into Qatar and Saudi Arabia, it's damn skipy going to be close when we get into Abu Dhabi. So, yeah, you definitely can't count out the seven-time world champ with only 14 points between him and another world title. Harry, what did you make of his performance on the Sunday specifically? We'll get on to his drive in the sprint race, because that is deserving of a topic in its own right. But what did you make of his race out there? Yeah, I mean, it was, I think the writing was kind of on the war yesterday to say,

with the sprint race, but it was highly impressive. And I was shot, I know we waited what felt like days for that decision, the kind of inevitable decision that he was thrown out of the Friday mini-pole, quality. But I saw so many people saying, you know, what a huge turning point this is in the championship, it could be game over. And I was thinking, what, like, if it was anyone else, I'd have been like, yeah, okay, maybe, yeah, if it was Routhery Potter's been thrown to the back of the grid,

for sprint quality and had another five-place penalty come. No offense, Valtrey, but I would have said, yeah, it's looking pretty difficult now. But it's, it's said, it's bloody Lewis Hamilton. So, yeah, so I found that an odd one for people to be calling it over. Because you know that, I think, honestly think Hamilton, and maybe this is a pump the brakes opinion here, but I think Hamilton is at his best when, I mean, he's good all the time, obviously.

because that is very best when he is back up against the wall. It feels like the world is against him, and whether that's through the FIA or whatever, I think that's when he performs at his best. So I absolutely did not write him off for the win this afternoon because I just think that's when the best of him comes out. So, yeah, it was ridiculously impressive. You know, he's got that straight-out speed very helpful.

still want to utilize it and he did to massive effect. So yeah, it's like not even shocked. It was so impressive. I'm just not shocked because it's what Lewis Hamilton does. On your point on, is Lewis Hamilton at its best when he's facing adversity? I would 100% agree with that. And I think there's a reason that Mercedes and Lewis Hamilton have over the years tried their best to paint the picture that they are the underdogs and they are up against it. And a lot of the time we will laugh and say, you're not the slowest, come on. Don't be real with us here. But I think there is a reason why they do that.

And it is because the more they can paint themselves as an underdog, the more Lewis Hamilton has that extra bite to him that he goes out there. And he tries his absolute best to overcome those odds, whether they actually exist or whether they don't. There's no doubt about it. The odds were definitely against him this weekend. and what he was able to do was nothing short of remarkable. They said towards the end, when I say they, I say the commentary team in the UK,

they were referencing towards the end of the race when Lewis Hamilton is all said and done and they look back at his best ever races that this might well be a good part of the conversation. And I 100% agree with it because what he was able to do on any, if this happened on any race weekend, it would have positioned itself amongst one of the best. but just based on the situation, him knowing that if he takes another loss, that could be the championship over. The best perform when they absolutely need to. I made this point a few weeks ago. And today was just further proof of that. Lewis Hamilton had everything against him from the DRS disqualification on Friday to the five-place grid penalty.

He was able to overcome all of that and that's what the best do. I think his race was utterly flawless out there today. You know, he started from 10th place on the grid. We know that typically drivers that start on the front row of the grid go on to win, as they do at most tracks, but even more so at Brazil. Winds from outside the top sort of three or four very rarely happen at Brazil, yet he was able to absolutely nail the start. And he just came through the field so wonderfully well.

It felt as if he was always in control. Every overtake that he makes, there is an element of risk that is attached to it. there's an element of risk behind absolutely every overtake that happens out on track. Yet with Lewis Hamilton, you have such confidence that every time he's not going to take any undue risk that's going to result in a crash. Even when they are breaking from high speeds down to very low speeds into turn one, you still feel as if he has completely under control to the point where nothing bad is going to happen in that spot.

And you're right in what you say in terms of how he came through the field because you know, you could say he did have very high top speed. Yes, he was able to quite easily pass cars, definitely the weaker cars into turn one. But, you know, Valtrey Bottas was stuck behind Perez for a long time in that first day. He needed the VSC to get past him. Louis Hamilton didn't need that. Lewis Hamilton needed just two bites of the cherry. He needed, you know, the first attempt very nearly worked and Perez did very well to fight back. Second attempt, he got it done. and Bottas within two laps he wasn't able to do the same thing so yes you know that having the fastest car on the grid definitely does help but today really prove that you need you need much more than that and he was able to convert a wonderful race win and if he does go on to win the championship still a big if at this point this will probably be the race that we turn to and say yeah this is the one that decided it for him flipping it over to the red bull perspective Sam, do you think that there's anything they could have done to avoid defeat here?

Because, of course, Max Vastappen did hold the lead for a significant chunk of the Grand Prix. Hope that there were two Valtry Bottas and one one Vautasas, I think was probably the most that they could do. It was tougher for Red Bull because at certain moments of the Grand Prix, it really felt like it flowed their way. When they've made the second pick call and they brought in Bostappen early and got the undercut, I think social media, I was paying attention to you, and our Discord channel, almost erupting a little bit of what is this strategy call that Masegis have gone for here?

Why are they keeping Hamilton out for three, four laps afterwards? Why are they not responding? He had a slow stop, he got caught behind, the Williams on the exit, which delayed him a little bit further. If Hamilton had put in a great in-lap, and they had a standard pit stop and a good out-lap, he would have had him there and then. And I understood that uproar,

but Mosegis didn't take that chance. And I think that there was where Red Bull had some. nail that moment right there. They had to exchange as much as possible. But Hamilton with a fresh ICE and Hamilton, as we've already said, facing a varsity, back up against the wall, when you've won 101 Grand Prix, and we've just watched what was possibly

one of the top 10 Grand Prix that that man has ever raced, it's hard to put a stop to that regardless of who you are. Whether you're Czechos parades or whether you're Max Verstappan, whether you're the one person that people tout as being the only guy that can stop Lewis Hamilton winging another title, I don't know what more Max for Staffen realistically could have done here today. He got the lead on the first corner.

He pushed on. When Perez was defending from Bottas and Hamilton, he grew with the lead by about four seconds. He kickstarted the safety car, the VSCs brilliantly well. I don't really know what more Max could have done. Maybe try the one stop and hope that holding track position that a little bit longer might have helped. But it feels unlikely. It feels like the tide was already going in Lewis Hamilton's way. So I think second place actually, unexpectedly, is really good damage limitation for Max for Staffing.

He still has a 14-point lead. He was helped out by Perez on the last lap for getting that fastest point, which stopped the gap going down to 13 points. I think Max did well to get second. I think actually Bossas possibly should have done a little more in the future race to trouble him for that second place. Bottas did come with the Regina and say, we've thrown away a 1-2 here. Bottas maybe should have had the place to close that gap down at the end. So I think Max did well to hold on to second. What do you think from Red Bull's perspective strategically or in terms of performance?

Was there anything they could have done here? Strategically, I think they were spot on. I think they were better strategically than the Mercedes were, to be honest, because I think they made that cool, especially on the second round of stops, they made that cool early because they had to because they risked being undercut. But I feel like that almost caught Mercedes slightly off guard. Obviously, that Hamilton came out and still managed to overtake him in the end anyway. but I don't think there's much else they could have done.

They got unlucky with the Perez, with the BOTAS, sorry, VSC stop because I think potentially Perez could have finished in front of them if that VSE hadn't come out. So I don't think Bottas looked like he was going to get past Perez any time soon. But yeah, so strategically, I don't think they could have done anything else. I just don't think they had the performance in the car to match what Hamilton was doing. Yeah, I agree with you. think Red Bull and Max Verstappen

100% nailed this. You know, if you look back into the first stop, they were able to wait a lap. They had the gap where even though Lewis Hamilton was closing up by that point, they knew that they had one lap in hand. So Lewis Hamilton could go first. Max Verstappen could lap the immediate lap afterwards

and get away with it and still have the lead. So I think they absolutely nailed the first stint. if it was two laps, I think Hamilton probably gets the undercut on Max Verstappen. So they absolutely needed to pull the trigger on the one lap after Lewis Hamilton came in. He did so. And I think they nailed that part. And then ultimately, I think for Red Bull, because of the nature of their car, you know, Red Bull were very good in the second sector,

but they were at a massive straight line speed disadvantage versus the Mercedes. I think Perez and Vostappen might well have ended up as the 19th. and 20 of fastest cars in the speed traps. So, you know, their advantage was the middle sector, not the straight line speed parts. And as a result of that, this was always going to be about trapped position for Red Bull. As long as they could stay in front of Mercedes,

they had a fighting chance. The second Lewis Hamilton gets passed by via an undercut, that was it. That was the race done. Because there was no way that Red Bull was going to be able to overtake that Mercedes. They could have been, I think they could have been three or four tents going into the last DRS range, and I still don't think that had got the overtake done.

Such was the advantage of the Mercedes straight line speed. So realistically, on the second stint, at that point, Lewis Hamilton was inside undercut range. So if Lewis Hamilton pit, I think he probably would have come out ahead of Max Verstappen if he had undercut him. You have to go first if you're Red Bull. You have to. And then you at least have to make Lewis Hamilton work for it on track, which he definitely did have to. You can't give it away in the pit stops.

If you give it away in the pit stops, that's it. That's race done. Lewis Hamilton at least has to work for it if he's out on track and he has to make the overtake happen. So I agree with both of their pit decisions, Red Bull. I think Max Verstappen raced very well. I don't think he could have done much more. I think this was inevitable, despite the starting position of Lewis Hamilton,

despite all of the troubles that Mercedes had during the weekend, I think the combination of Hamilton Mercedes was just too much for them out there. And there's nothing they can do about that. Just in terms of the VSC stop, looking at Perez versus Bottas, is it lucky, is it not lucky? I tend to side more towards it's not actually luck, because when you send out a driver longer on a stint, you are playing into the possibility of a VSC or a safety car happening.

It's one of the advantages of doing that strategy. You know, it doesn't always work out. In fact, more often than not, it doesn't in terms of a safety car on VSC, but it does occasionally. It's always a possibility, and Valtry Bottas took advantage of it. So, you know, that's the benefit of a split strategy, I'm so. How, if you're Red Bull, Sam, are you happy or unhappy leaving this weekend? Because you could look at it as both ways. Lewis Hamilton starting P20 in the sprint race, and he's ended up winning, obviously not great.

But ultimately, Max Verstaffman has still only lost out five points. points on a track that looked like to be a very strong one for Merck. How would you view it? If I was Red Bull, I'd find it very difficult to be on this podcast because I won't be going to speak. It's going to be a corporate entity. Right. Mute him now.

That's it. Okay. That is bad. Red card. Banned. Come on. I'll be serious. I'll be serious.

All right. Go on. You can answer. I think Red Bull will will be unhappy. I think when you take the. lead in the start of the feature race. You know, you've muscled past Valtrey Botas. He's sliding around all over the place.

And both of your drivers have moved them into first and second. And Lewis Hamilton doesn't even start inside the top five. When you're your championship rival, I still think you're unhappy to see that man come past you and beat you regardless. Because it's not just a sign of what's happening. It could be a sign of what's to come. If that Mercedes can continue to deliver that output of power, if they can be that close skilled through the twisty winding sections that we are going to see in Qatar, then there's every

chance that we can see some domination from the saying is going forward. I think that's what Red Bull are going to be unhappy about. I think Max could be happy with the fact that, you know, he picked up good points in the sprint race, as you've probably said Ben. He only lost five points this race weekend, which is not as much as it could have been had the sprint race not being a thing. But, yeah, I still think, you know, Max is a feisty and is a feisty character. It's incredibly competitive. And he wants to win his first title. Of course he's going to be gutted. And we saw how resilient Max

was to hold on to that first place. You know, the debated issue that we're going to speak about later on the podcast of should Max Westappen have received a penalty for that defensive maneuver on Lewis Hamilton, I still haven't seen the onboard of Max Verstappen's car from that corner. I don't know how much he opened the steering wheel or not,

but he will have tried absolutely everything. He threw absolutely everything to stay in front and we wanted to give it all to beat Hamilton here because he knows that if he beats Hamilton here, he's got over a race wing to counteract anything that happens for the rest of the season. As we say in the race preview podcast, it's removing the variables. And what did we say about the variables being one of those key ones? The sprint race is a variable that Red Bull will not want.

And I think long term, it may have backfired for them. Because I think if the sprint racing exists and Hamilton was removed from qualifying for the feature race, is the result the same? Does he come from 20th to win the? the race or is moving through the traffic too much of a stretch for him. We don't know. So yeah, I think Red will go away from here. I think they are unhappy.

I don't think they're actually gutter. I don't think they're kicking themselves. But I think they think they probably could have done more. I do think they'll be annoyed that Perez didn't finish your front of Bottas. What do you think, Harry, points left on the table or not? Yeah, it's, I think, if it depends where you look at which point at the weekend you look at, because I think after Friday practice, I think Red Bull might have been thinking,

what, I guess actually, sorry, straight after quality on Friday, thinking this doesn't look like our weekend because I think Hamilton, you know, that qualifying lap was almost half second faster than Bostappen. Obviously then the penalty comes or the disqualification comes through, so then they might be fancying their chances, but then they have the sprint race

and Hamilton gets all the way back up to fifth, and I think then they must be thinking it will damage limitation already. Yeah, I, I, I think they can... What struck me was how remarkably calm Max was after the race on the team radio and in interviews. I think that's this year for staff, but I think it's probably his biggest, I don't know, change,

and it's part of maturing as a driver, but he was all very, very calm about it all, you know, despite losing out on the race win. I know he still got a lead. But I think that kind of speaks as to where their head is at. they know it can swing so easily as it has done in the past two races. So, yeah, they'll be disappointed, but I think this was not inevitable, but I think it was something that was quite highly likely to happen,

despite where Hamilton was starting. So I think they'll be pleased to take the points away that they did. Also, and this isn't related to your point, and I know we've discussed Prince Racing. spin races a lot already but I've gone from there it could work to in the bin Ben I'm getting in your bandwagon mate

I hate them Come on Join me That's terrifying Yeah I know I hate to agree with you It's true you do Yeah I just We've had three now

And I know it was It was yesterday's was the most exciting we've had But that was because what we had was basically a reverse grid with Hamilton at the back and that's what made it exciting because apart from that, not a lot happened. Anyway, sorry, that's detracting, but I've just decided for the record,

sprint races, hate them. Everyone was wondering where you would stand on the issue. It often takes a while for you to take me a year to come to a conclusion but you're welcome, folks. That was a big fence you climbed down from. Huge vents, huge.

I would say overall that Red Bull, and they might not see it this way right at this very moment, I actually think they should feel okay about this weekend. And I understand that Lewis Hamilton starting P20 in the sprint race, you think it's a massive opportunity and ultimately Hamilton goes on to win and in the constructors as well, they lose out. So I understand, I just think overall consistency is key. And I think they have done. and this is actually a bit of a theme.

I think they have done better on Merck suited tracks than Mercedes have done on Red Bull suited tracks. Now, it's really weird this season because the form book that was already in Tatters might as well go in the bin along the sprint races because no one knows. Weekend to weekend, it is so random. You know, USA Red Bull turn up and they're good, apparently.

In Mexico, that one kind of did follow suit, but it just seems as if weekend to weekend you cannot tell and it's just swinging back and forth. We've got three races to go now, Qatar, Jeddah, and Abidabi. And I've got no idea. I've got no idea which... You know, we could... And got a clue.

We could go into Qatar thinking, well, Mercedes have got their straight line speed and I just don't have any confidence that anything is going to translate weekend to weekend. That's just how it's going at the moment. So actually, I think given the state of the track, given how good Mercedes were in a straight line, I think Red Bull can probably look at it and go, yeah, that was probably about what we could do. I think Max Verstappen in P2, that was his max. I don't think there is anything more that he could have done. Sergio Perez, should he be disappointed that he didn't get Valtrey Bottas?

I don't know. I think P4 might have been his best potential as well. he got the fastest point to go with it as well so it's 13 rather than 12 the thing i think they might be most disappointed about actually is that peres couldn't do more in the sprint race um he didn't get anything from the sprint race with carlos signs beating it to p3 so i think that's probably what he's going to be most disappointed about um but yeah i think overall in terms of definitely in terms of the drivers to only lose five points on a weekend where Hamilton could come from P20 to P1, I think you probably take that and you fancy your chances going into the last three that not

every weekend is going to be as Merck dominant as this one has been. In terms of the constructors, maybe that's a bit more disappointing because that was closer to begin with, but I don't think this is disastrous for revenue. Should we have a look at some driver of the days and some worse driver of the days? and some worst driver of the days. An obvious contender for drive of the day, but we'll see if any other names crop up. Harry, who've you got?

I'll go for the obvious one because I don't normally get to go first on these. So Lewis Hamilton gets driver of the day. Yeah, driver of the weekend, quite possibly. So, yeah, he don't need to say why. We know why. He came from 20th to 5th, then 10th to 1st. a very very good day all around for mr l hamilton sorry sir l hamilton i should say i mean i feel like last week we were i i struggled to keep up with this i think last week we were a hamilton hating

podcast so it's only right that this week we're actually a hamilton supporting podcast i think yeah that's what we like to do um so i'm going to go for lewis hamilton as well there are some race weekends where I look at driver of the day and there are like five names and I have to make a decision between them. This weekend I didn't really have to think about this at all. And you know that someone is an obvious driver of the day when I agree with the masses.

He was actually the official driver of the day which it very rarely happens that I agree with the people. I think the people are idiots, generally speaking. I'm joking. I'm joking for most of you out there. I like to offend country to country then but you're just offending everyone efficiency Sam

come on why offend country to country when you can do everyone in one go I'm going for Lewis Hamilton he was I'm not even going to say a second contender because I don't think there was one Sam well the message was spoken

and I am if you say mass the other way around it says Sam so I agree with the masses well you're on fire tonight Wow. Slaying the game. Honestly, there isn't another contender, and that was one of the

classic weekends from any driver, I think. I think when you look on drives of a career, that one actually might stand out as a conversation maker. So Lewis Hamilton is driver of the day by a long shot today. Yeah, as Sam said, or as Sam, backwards, is Massa.

Conspiracy theory. Belipo, baby. oh god well Felipe Masa will be crossing his fingers hoping that he doesn't get worse driver of the day I don't think he's a contender for it but could be proven wrong

who have you got Harry I feel like I've given this person of worst driver of the day a lot but I'm going to give it to UK Sonoda because he forgot what the brake pedal was again used Lance stroll instead because don't need to break

just use another car and yeah and obviously that in his race where it went downhill from there and you know Gansley was P7 and Sonoda was 15th it was just

what it was nowhere near making that move it was not even close that close I'm on UK I know I know you planted one

on Fernando Alonso in in round one but it ain't gonna work every time son just not gonna work every time and it didn't sorry UK Sam here you go for

um we've got real lack of variety here, but I do feel like Yuki watched Hamilton's move on Norris in the spring race, you know, in the replays at bed and went, I'm going to do that, that's great, I'm going to do that tomorrow. And then at first try, I went for it and just, again, went, do I have to hit the brake pedal, or do I just bounce off the car and that will slow me down enough? It wasn't good from little Yuki, and I'm not going to bother wrong about some other drivers that I thought were, you know, not perfect, not great, because there were some

slightly below average performances, but Yuki really mucked this one up, I think. So, yeah, Yuki. Break. Yeah, I think there were at least a few contenders for this. One of them being Mick Schumacher, he had a tough one. A couple of others out there as well. And I've given this award to Yuki Sonoda quite a few times.

So you might think, based on you two already giving it to him, that I might give him a break. Unfortunately, I'm a bit cruel, so I'm going to give it to you. He said Fatality. Sorry, Yuki. Yes, I think what he probably did do

was look at Norris and the Hamilton move from the sprint race for, yes, that looks pretty cool. I think I'll go for that. But he forgot one of the most important rules of racing and guys, you can have this one

on the house. You need to be within five miles of your opponent in order to get a move done. Do you think he was surfing the web and, you know, on Amazon,

and he saw a special offer. He was at Junkal. I think, you know, is there on Amazon a special offer, Black Friday's coming up, and he's going, oh, one Hamilton on Norris move. I'll order that, please, next day delivery. It's arrived, he's installed it, brilliant, but the break hasn't been included in the delivery,

and he doesn't know what to do now, and that's what the issue is, I think. It's actually just a really bad knockoff, so he didn't notice that it's like Lewis, spelled L-O-I-S, and it's one of those... It's a bait. Yeah, it's an absolute fake Can I

whilst we're on this subject Because we didn't actually see this happen live Because we watched about three days worth of replays after the start What was that about? Well, TV directing today Absolute I was in several I swear with it then

It was It was terrible It's terrible So I'd like them as well They're always so accurate Honestly I've seen more anger of Norris getting a puncture from Sykes' front wing

than I have of my own face and I've been alive for 26 years. Oh dear. Yeah, it was when it was Lewis Hamilton, the graphic came up in the replay of Lewis Hamilton having started 10th and was now 4th. And I was like, well, if he's 4th, that means we haven't seen an overtake here

because Charlotte Clare was definitely in 4th. But yes, it was good to see that Lando Norris' wheel, we can confirm it did come. off because we did see it 26 times and that was the case moment of the race what have you got harry um michael sassy as i'm going to call him now uh just had enough had enough of all your team managers getting on it get get out my grill i don't answer emails during the race and i'm going to stop answering your call my pleasure my pleasure my pleasure why do they talk to him like there bit terrified of him and he's actually like you know like your dad talks to you when you're a child

it's like leave me alone children i'm busy and they're like um thanks for receiving michael my pleasure red ball now get out of mid bloody eggphones he was so done with him i just think you've done with every f-1 team and you know toto that now very memeable shot of toto wolf pointing the camera apparently he's confirmed that was aimed at michael massey so um that's not going to please I love that Toto's now resorted to sign language and cameras to try to get a message to him. Toto walks actually writing lines in Michael Massey's classroom right now. I will not be having that. Michael Massey for a race weekend. So it's sassy Massey for your moment of the race.

Sam, your moment of the race? I think it's got to be the Vestappel. Hamilton fight for what felt like it went on forever. We had obviously the off-track incident. I can't wait to review bold predictions. And then we obviously had the move itself. So the fact that we got to see the two at the top of the championship, both in championship contention,

and we saw a move on track for the lead was brilliant. It was fantastic. I can't remember the last time we really saw that kind of pass with only a couple of races to go for a possible championship, deciding move, who knows. So for me, yeah, that really was the moment of the race. I thought it was fantastic. My moment of the race is a bit of a weird one

because it's kind of a non-moment of the race, but I feel like this probably happened. So you'll have seen at the start of the Grand Prix, they show a few of the key corners, they show a previous incident that happened at that corner. And one of them was into turn one when Fernando Alonzo overtook two cars back in 2012. And there was a moment in the race

where Fernando Alonzo was behind, a couple of, I can't quite remember who the two cars were. It was his, I believe it was his team name, someone else. And you could just tell that that sort of a move could be shaping up for Fernando Alonzo, but it would have been very risky. So I can just imagine the team radio between Alonzo. And Alonzo's like, yeah, I can do this. And no, Fernando, play it.

I can do this, I can do this. It's not 2012 anymore and you're not in a good car. Don't try it. I can get both of them. And he ended up settling for just one of them. But I feel like Fernando will have just remembered that moment and gone, oh, I can get both of them. I can do it.

Hashtag El Plang. And he ended up getting the second of the two cars on the next lap, which kind of proves that maybe he has matured to that point now. But it would have been fun to see. That's what Fernando. Reviewing bold predictions. So my bold prediction, was very specifically that Lewis Hamilton and Max Verstappen would nearly crash going into turn one.

I did not account for Lewis Hamilton getting disqualified from qualifying and getting a five-place grip penalty. So that didn't work out for me. What was your son? Mine was that both Max and Hamilton at some point would end up going off the track onto the grass and having a bit of a moment off the track. Which is a shame because they didn't go onto the grass. Hard luck, Sam. Good try. Get in a bing. Cook a bing more ride. I did not see either of the drivers on the grass.

Did you, Harry? No. It was a good try, Sam. Get in a bold prediction bings. Let us know in the Discord. Should Sam have that? Should that count? Bear in mind that if you do need a definition of what grass is,

I will be in the discord waiting for you. There was some dusty. Astro-Turf that they definitely had to go over that kicked up some dirt. But then you've got to say, Hamilton of Verstaffin will both go off on the dusty AstroTurf. I'm sorry, when you were playing football on AstroTurf as a kid and you ripped up your knees, did anyone turn around to you and go,

why did you do that? It's just grass. I want it to be on the record, from everyone listening, how much I despise these two people that I have to do this with every single week. so I mean that's that's my bowl prediction wrong that's Sam's ball prediction wrong what did you what did you have Harry

I don't remember someone about it was probably wrong on the podium um is that one said what did I what was mine well he was on the podium so I'd assume you did say that yeah I know it was a oh did I say Ferrari and McLaren on the podium or something yeah he did you see likeson Ricardo or Norris something

Well, yeah. It's almost then. That was about as close to happening as Sonodas move on stroll. True. And I did say this to Ben before we started, but, you know, McLaren had a terrible race today. But Ferrari gave it all their best to try and make it bad for them as well by going from mediums to mediums and making themselves to a two-stop.

No one else did that. No one. Ferrari at it again, it seems. They really do try their best. They will always find a way to mess things up, Will Ferrari, even when you don't think it's possible. It's like they forgot what tyre they put the car on and went, hang on a minute.

We've just done it the same one again, haven't we? Oh, we have to bring him in again, hang a minute. I reckon the driver probably had to remind them. I reckon Charles LeClair was going around lap 40, like, guys, we have to use a different tyre. And then they were furiously typing away trying to invent. investigate the rules. Like, do we have to use

another tire? What? What is a tire? Question. So you're saying it has to be a different colour to the first one? What? Can't confirm that. You haven't got any gold tires.

Should we use the wets? That is true Ferrari footage. That'll be in the Netflix Drive to Survive series. It's not an avatari. They're going to put the wets on. Don't be ridiculous. Oh, I love a bolt.

So before we go any further, Beer 52, great friends of the podcast, clearly heard our first fantastic ad read, so they're interested, great friends of the podcast, and they know it as well. They are the largest beer club in the world, and getting ready for the Christmas period,

you can get craft beer from them. Eight free beers, plus an extra two free beers, which if you do the math, Sam, that's 10 free beers. Thanks, Ben. Mr. Statman over there. Did you know, when we got the email through,

I thought it was the B-52s, you know, the classic band that sang Love Shack, and I thought, are they going to get us to maybe perform like New Year's, Love Shack parody songs, you know, the jingles that we do, maybe in New York or somewhere special, but it turns out it's even better, because I get free beers.

And you might get free beers if you follow this. So, if you do want that, go to www.b52.com forward slash late. I'm going to say it again, because sometimes you lot more about volume. www. Beer52.com forward slash late

as in late breaking luckily it's the late bit and not the breaking bit which you all spell wrong as well and just cover the post dig shusks of £5.95 each month members have sent a case

with a different theme the themes are crazy I've actually had Beer 52 personally myself outside with the podcast we once got this strawberry beer and it was surprisingly really tasty so crack on with that

if you get that, it's lucky. Usually these beers are from a different part of the world. It comes with a magazine, a little snack. So you can have a little reading, a muncheon or something while you have a little beer. If you don't like dark beer, you can choose the light option as well. So everyone's a winger.

That was wild. I was going to say, well, Sam's obviously had some beer 52. I've not. Ben doesn't drink beer, but they are going to, the kind people at beer 52 are going to send us some beer. But right now we don't have any.

But I imagine it tastes. delightful. It is delight. I cannot imagine. I've had it and it was absolutely delightful. Well, if there's one thing I know about Hugh, Harry, is you never get anything wrong. So, it could be fairly confident you're right with that. Great. Okay. Well, folks, you can pause or cancel at any time. I mean, Sam said this 15 times, but go to www.b52.com for us slash late, if you didn't realize that already, and pay 595 postage to get all of this. Now. Remember this, you can get two extra free bs which has been pointed out makes 10. Quick maths.

Let's move on to an incident that we have to discuss. It's written in our contracts that definitely don't exist. Max Vastappan, Lewis Hamilton, side by side, both went off track. It was noted by the stewards but not investigated despite the best efforts of Mercedes for them to do so. So no penalty for Max Vastappen. Ultimately, the result didn't really affect things as Lewis Hamilton was able to get past him regardless. But Sam, do you have a thought on whether Vastappen was right to not be penalised? Or should they have looked at this further?

So I am a huge fan of the theory of, you know, let them race. I want the two in title contention to go hang it, wheel for wheel. I want to push each other right to the edge. I really do love that fierce competition that they bring to each other in wheel-to-wheel racing. But we are starting to see a bit of a theme where when they, these two go wheel to wheel with each other, one or both of them always end off some point off the track, whether it's over a curb or whether it's on top of the other one, car to car that is folks, thank you, get your minds up the gutters, whether it's in the barrier, in Silverstone,

you know, we have seen several moments of these two coming wheel to wheel and at least one of them coming off the track. And it was no exception today, absolutely no exception today. something that I can't make a decision on because I still haven't seen it is the footage of Max Verstaffin's steering wheel going into that corner I don't know if he's opened up his steering wheel and I guess I'm going to have to base it on two separate theories

if Bastappan is clearly holding his steering wheel as fast as he is and we don't see his steering motion open then he's understeered and it's gone wrong right it's a racing incident Hamilton's done well to avoid contact they've both gone off and I guess the staff has probably come out better than Hamilton. If we do see that footage come up

if it is ever released and we see that Bastappan suddenly goes from having the steering well on a hard left to leveling it out to left again and Hamilton has to take evasive action and Bastapen has come out with a lasting advantage which I think either way he has done

then yeah, I feel like a penalty is on the cards there because you have as I think I can't remember which Masege's employee was came over to Michael Massey who was already fed up with them but he said, oh, so just crowding cars off the track is fine. I love the way that they sassily asked Michael Massey stuff, and he's like, I'm not bothered.

Leave me alone. Please, go away. Please stop talking to me. It's been done. They kind of rightfully said, is it all right to crowd cars off the track now, is it? And Michael was like, well, no, it's not. But that's not what happened in our view. So leave me alone.

If the steering was opened and the staff at has, once again, I would argue, run a car off to the side of the road without space, which he got very closely doing with Botas as well in turn 1. I would argue that a penalty should be given, a five-second time penalty, because it's not fair racing. The racing has to stay on the track, and we need to make sure that the fight stay on the track for as much as possible. So, yeah, if we do see the footage, the skeering wheel is opened,

the Stafford does deserve some kind of action against him, I believe. If you lost control of the car, then you lost control of the car, and there's nothing you can say or do about it. I'm afraid it's a racing incident. It's all depends on if it was intense. behaviour from Dostappen, which I can't see. So I think the right thing came about. I think it's good that Hamilton managed to still get the win.

Otherwise, I think there will be a lot of fans in uproar today because the decision might have had a massive impact on the result of the end of the race and therefore the championship. But that isn't the case. They finished in the places they were going to finish. How a penalty been giving anyway. So I'm willing to let it lie. But I will still very much like to see the spicy on board footage from Max

Westappen. Harry, penalty, no penalty? see. Similar vein to Sam here. It's very tricky without seeing what he was doing with his steering. I've already said in the past and I think it's slightly different opinion to you guys which is I think if you're ahead then you have the right to the corner and you can't, you know, Botas and Vestapp and Turn 1, I think that was fine. this one I think is different because I'm not convinced

and it's not the first time we've seen it this year I'm not convinced either of them we're going to make the corner but Vastappen Morso and I think I need to go and watch it again but

I don't know this has been such a good year I'm now like I just leave them to it when we were having the debates well we weren't having them the stewards having the debates

about you know the part of Fermé stuff with Vastappan and Hamilton's DRS slot. I was like, just put them to the back, put both to the back, let and get on with it. I'm kind of done with the FIA or the Stuers getting involved because we've said so many times that they're so inconsistent and I'm like, at this point, at this point I'm just, I'm over it,

just let them get on with it. If they crash into each other, they crash into each other, as we've seen before. But, yeah, I think there's just a bad precedent that's now set. A, because you can go off the road, there's run off there, there's not grass, unfortunately so. And B, because there's so many instances where it happens now, and drivers can get away with it. So they're in, they've sort of painted themselves into the corner here at the Stewart's because, you know, other people have been run off the track and have got away with it. or I've made overtakes to look at Kimmy in Austin.

Yeah, so it's just all a mess. Maybe I'm tired, but I'm just done with this group getting involved. I just want these dudes to go and just fight it out for the last three races. I don't want anything. And like, Sam, I think it made a huge difference that Hamilton still overtook him at the end. Otherwise, you know, I think it would have been way more controversial than it actually is now. I don't want anything decided off track

unless it really needs to be you know, a legal DRS system or a DRS slot or whatever, fair enough, but... Oh, let them race, Harry, let him race. I'm not, I'm not, I feel like I can come across as like an old fogey, but...

You are a bit. Yeah. The, I mean, the second youngest or the second oldest out of us, I guess, I mean, that's the middle child, Harry. I have the difficult, middle child there again that's my conclusion folks

thank you that the truth also I feel like Sam we're the wrong way around in terms of ages here no in my family the youngest sibling outshines the others considerably all the time anyway so I'm well that's why I think we're the wrong way around Sam you outshine us

oh oh you flatter me I only say that because I'm going to disagree with you in a minute so oh god I'm going to leave us podcast. Oh, hang on a second, boys. What? Breaking news live on the podcast. Lewis Hamilton's been summoned to the stewards for use of safety belts. Don't know what that means.

Is this going to cause another one of those incidents in the driver briefing? Do you remember when they put those on YouTube? Yeah, yeah. Oh, I hope that happens again. Back to the incident of having the penalty. Firstly, just a note to the inconsistencies of the stewards because there wasn't a penalty for this one. And there were multiple five second time penalties applied at Austria. You might remember where there were.

Sergio Perez decided that he should run absolutely everyone off the track that day. And he got two five second penalties for it. Consistency, who even asks for it. For me, this is a slam dunk of a penalty. this is 100% a penalty for me and this is where I'll disagree. I don't think it really matters whether we see the onboard footage of Max Verstappen or not

because I think it's a penalty regardless. If I go into a car park and I don't pay for parking and I do it intentionally, I get a parking ticket. If I accidentally forget about it, I still get a parking ticket because my car is in the wrong place at the wrong time.

So I don't think it really matters whether he was supposed to be out there or whether he accidentally was out. out there. Either way, Lewis Hamilton can't carry on with his line and he has to go off the track. I will say, I will agree that if we do see his footage and he does run him off the track, then maybe that warrants a more severe penalty, but I think it's a penalty regardless for me. In terms of Lewis, would Lewis Hamilton have made the corner or not versus Max Verstappen? I think there is a good chance he wouldn't have made the corner. But the point is you've got to give

him the chance to because if Max Verstappen doesn't drive him off, if Max Verstappen always leaves one car one car's width and Lewis Hamilton still goes off track at that point you know you say I've left I've left him the space he couldn't get there and that's on him at that point but if you are not giving him any space and he doesn't make the corner as a result of that because of course he can't then you haven't even allowed him to try so you can't definitively say yes or no one way or the other and Just for clarity on this, because I'm probably coming across as an old fogey here, and I should let them race. But that's my point is that I do want them to race on the race track that is literally put out there for racing. I'm not saying this out of I don't want to see side-by-side action.

I do want to see side-by-side action, but I'd like to see it on the track. And the only way you see it more on the track is if you penalise it, when it's not on the track like it was out there today. I feel like you have to penalise this because that's not what, that's not the racetrack. And if that was gravel or grass, Sam knows a lot about grass, if that was the case, then it shouldn't be any different. Whether it's, whether it's tarmac, whether it's gravel, whether it's grass, whether it's fire, shouldn't matter. The same penalty should apply across the board because it's still not the race track, regardless of what's on the outside of it. I don't think you can allow, and I don't want this to just be about Max Verstappen as well, about this specific incident,

because you're right when you're saying that it didn't end up mattering for the race results, so maybe it's slightly less controversial, but this is about precedent, because the next time this happens, it might well affect the actual overall race result, and you want to make sure that you've set the precedent right to races beforehand. And I just don't think that's happened here. I want to see side-by-side racing, and I want to see it on track. and I want to see when you force a driver out wide, I think you should be penalised for it.

So, yes, I think if there was intention behind it, maybe penalising more, maybe give him a 10 second rather than a 5 second, sure, completely understand that. But I think when you drive someone off the road, regardless of whether you mean it or not, you get a penalty for it. And I was disappointed at the stewards. Not only didn't give a penalty for this,

they didn't even investigate it. I think that was massively disappointing. I'm just going to read a tweet from fellow content creator and Sim Racing legend, Jimmy Broadbent, who I think actually sums this up, and I think it's quite a fair summary. He's tweeted, I hope you guys know that this is much more than a Max versus Lewis thing, much to what you said there, Ben. Those decisions the FI make set a precedent for is and isn't allowed in racing. If you allow mag stuff like that, then that's what racing is going to become.

I don't care who wings and who doesn't. I just want it to be fair. Getting DQ for a tech regulation is fair. Getting a fine for touching other person's car is fair. Driving someone 15 metres off the track to defend, regardless of whether you're in control, is not. So there you go. I think that is a very ironically fair point

that Mr. Broadbent has made, and I think that's something that we all generally agree with. Whether we see the footage of steering or not, you're right, a precedent has to be set, and it needs to be followed, and I think that can be said with all penalties. Regardless of what the ink thing we're talking about is, we've seen a lot of inconsistency from the stewards in Formula One as of recent

and maybe going into the new regulations, that's the time where they can take a step back and really lay down the law. Yeah, I think that's spot on, to be perfectly honest. And just before we move on, because I haven't quite had enough of a say on the stewards yet, you know, they've been given far too much of an easy ride by us guys at this point in time. Taking one day to make a decision might be a new record for the stewards, so well done on that. But it's literally a technical regulation.

It's not one that has any opinion behind it. It needs to be under 85mm. And they should already have, like before the season, they should have something in place where if your car does not meet this standard, you get this penalty. And you don't even have to wait to make a decision on it. Like you've got the regulations.

Just make it beforehand, before the season starts. if you don't meet this part of the regulation, you get this penalty. If you don't meet this part, that's more severe. You get this penalty. And you don't even have to wait a day for the stewards to make a decision on something like that.

I know I understand why, because Mercedes, well, I guess one of the arguments was that the Stappan touched it and that may have caused it. But, you know, I'm totally with you, Ben. I don't know why the, the Stap won't take time fine because they've got to analyse different angles and stuff. But it's just straight up, your car didn't read,

it doesn't, it doesn't, you know, meet the requirements. A match just happened. He's a strong lad, probably. But that rear wing's under kilos worth of downforce. I don't think it's going to break it. I just don't think that's going to happen. In the words of the immortal Karun Chandok, friend of the podcast,

and we can actually legitimately say that. Yeah, that she is, wow. He's been on the podcast. He's actually been on. he said Andre the giant could have sat on it and it wouldn't have moved it So I don't know whether Mercedes view Max Verstappen

as being like the incredible Hulk Like you know just be able to rip it apart But I don't think that was ever going to happen And we'll move on Out of 10 Looking at the sprint race specifically We're not going to rate the sprint race Because again

Blood pressure need to look out for that Harry if you had to rate Lewis Hamilton's performance in the sprint race specifically out of ten how would you give it? I'm going to give it a solid nine I just pluck that one out of the air yeah

it was bloody brilliant and and you know he did 15 places in 24 laps which is redunculus I guess the only I won't give him perfect 10 because I think it was and I'm not this is not me taking it away from

what he did, because as I already mentioned, he had to utilise that new engine, but I think that new engine definitely helped. There's also, this is another gripe with sprint races, Ross Braun has said that because they had a sprint race, it was better because Hamilton was able to make up places

after his disqualification. And I was like, that's not a justification to have a sprint race because one of the championship contenders got disqualified and qualifying. I was like, that's the weakest argument of ever. I know this is not about spring races, but Jesus, come on, Ross.

But yeah, anyway, so I'm putting in hand. I'm giving it a nine because it was bloody epic. Sam, out of ten? I'm going to give him an absolute solid 10 out of 10, rude boy, because with the effort that Formula One, I try and make sprint race Fragua by stuffing the positive propaganda down my throat about sprint races being the best thing ever,

which they're not. They are rubbish. And the only reason this one was any good was because essentially Lewis Hamilton was running a reverse grid race and managed to do really, really well. Yeah, he had a new engine, yes, he's in a Mercedes. We've seen what Bottas has with a new engine in a Mercedes. It isn't that. The man made up 15 places in 24 laps, which I found a statistic that I believe is true.

I'm going to quote it anyway, is the most places gained in the shortest amount of time ever in terms of a finalized Formula One race where they crossed the line and the race was finished. It was very impressive. He made every single thing happen as it should have done. And that move on Landon Norris could top it off was spectacular. Absolutely flawless. So, yeah, for me, it was a 10 out of 10. This whole weekend for Lewis Hamilton was a 10 out of 10. It goes down with one of his best moments in his career, which I think says a huge amount when you've done what he's done. So sprint races, get in a being, Lewis Hamilton, 10 out of 10. Get that on a T-shirt. Yeah, I'm going to give it a

10 out of 10 as well. I take your point on board, Harry, in terms of the new engine definitely helped him out. It certainly did. But even so, I think he absolutely maximised this performance there. The start, you know, the start, he had to overcome this weekend two starts to races, which, as you know, 20 drivers within, you know, a couple hundred metres of one another, that can go wrong and it didn't go wrong for him on both occasions. And he actually made up significant positions both times. So he had a very good start, clean start. What I found most impressive about his performance was not necessarily as overtake on Lando Norris, as spectacular as that was.

For me, the best part was when he managed to get through that DRS train one at a time, which can't be understated how difficult that is to do. There's a reason even the best cars often will get trapped behind these DRS trains that run four or five cars deep. It's so difficult when DRS is, neutralised, it's completely equalised, to actually make these overtakes happen, yet he was able to do it one at a time. He managed to get past the likes of Alonso and Ricardo. And it was impressive to see when the DRS is equal, even with a better engine, really tricky overtakes to make any still did

it. So, you know, this was, there's such peril in overtaking that many cars in a short space of time, 24 laps, 15 spaces. But again, I mentioned this earlier on. He seemed so comfortable. doing so. So I'll give him a 10 out of 10 for this performance. I'm very impressed. And to round out today's podcast, Sam's favourite driver of all time, Valtrey Bottas, third place at the end. He managed to get fastest overall on the Friday, managed to, sorry, no, he didn't, he managed to get the lead away from the sprint race and go ahead and win that one, but couldn't keep the lead at the start of the actual race going from P1 back down to P3 as he let both Red Bulls passed. So Sam, do you think it was a positive weekend, a minus weekend for Bottas?

He did beat Perez. I think leading up to the sprint race, not sorry, leading up to the feature race, he was looking really, really strong. He was doing everything that Mercedes needed him to do. Obviously, Hamilton got like disqualification. He was right there ready to go. He then beats for stabbing on the soft tire, which people thought wasn't going to hold out to then take the other pole position for the actual race they need to come up with an official game because it gets very confusing.

Or they could bin it. Or they could just put it in Wilkins' Just put it out there. Yeah, I think we could get the Biffer out, you know. Oh, Biff has made an appearance on the podcast. Fantastic. We love that. It could go in there for all I care.

Yeah, he did well. He did really, really well on both Friday and on Saturday. He did more than enough, I think, to one backup Lewis, and when Lewis obviously had the issue and got brought back to the back of the grid, he was right there to pick up everything Mercedes needed him to do on his own. I was really impressed with that. When it came to the start of the race, he didn't get a great start off the line.

He was immediately joined alongside by Max Verstaffin, who quite comfortably pushed him out off the track. And as Harry said, I don't really have a real proper issue with the wheel-to-wheel fight on turn one. You've got to kind of get your elbows out. And I think Bottas is a little bit nervous sometimes of getting his elbows out and actually having a bit of grip between his teeth and going out. on first, I'm having this place. And he let that slip.

And because of that, Perez then got past him. And his actual pace outright wasn't amazing. I know that he didn't have the fresh engine of Lewis Hamilton, but that Mercedes was still clearly potent around that track. He did have to give up nine years to wait for Lewis Hamilton to pass him into turn one. And I understand that that may not have been a brilliant strategy for him. But there was enough time to make up, and he didn't really make it up. And I feel like the only reason he beat Perez was due to the VSC.

He never really looked like threatening him when he was behind him. Actually, I felt like dropped back lap after lap after lap while he was behind Perez until that VSC happened. So, I think the first half of the weekend was very, very good for Botas. I think the race part of the weekend was okay, and he got, like we said, there's no real luck in waiting for a VSC or a safety car. But I think he got lucky that it did work out in that manner for him. And I think it looks better on him than maybe it could have done if we had to completely, VSE safety car free race So it was good not great

Harry Good not great as Sam said Do you think that's a fair assessment Of his weekend I mean the Saturday He did all he needed to do on Saturday Perfect In terms of what he needed to do

Sunday Nath It just I don't know He's just not a Sunday guy is he He just loves a Saturday Not a Sunday guy Maybe I'd

If the races are on Saturday, he is the sprint race champion, I guess, because he's won two of them. Does that count? Sprinty sprint race. First of all, of course, Valdry Mortas has won the most sprint races this year. You could have called that at the beginning of the year. Go on.

Yeah. Yeah, so today just wasn't quite, you know, he got muscled out by turn, you know, turn one by max, then kind of made the mistake at turn four. and lost out to Perez. And I think, as I've already said, and I know, you know, the strategy is kind of hoping for a VSC,

but I think without that VAC, he's not getting past Perez and it's P4. So, yeah, it wasn't great. The only thing, you know, the only good thing from him today was being quite so sassy over the strategy. But he was trying to beat Michael Sassie on the old SaaS level, but he didn't quite manage it.

I mean, just to say, actually, on that, it's a very good thing that Valtry Bottas doesn't race for Ferrari because as we know, Ferrari drivers need to be their own race strategists, which if that was the case for Valtry Bottas, he would not have liked the result because a one stop was not happening Valtry. I'm not quite sure how he managed to get to the verdict that they threw away a 1-2 by going on to a 2-stop. I won't judge him too much because it was a very in-the-moment comment,

but yeah, I don't think you were on the right track with that one, Valtry. In terms of the Saturday, yeah, he was exceptional. And who knows? Maybe that one point that he took away from Max Verstappen or the two-point swing in the Constructors' Championship as a result of that. Who knows? Maybe that decides it.

You never know. So that might come back to help them. But yeah, he did everything that he needed to do on the Saturday. On the Sunday, you know, not... It was an all right start, but he basically had... had what happened to him, what he did the day before happened to him on the Sunday. So, and really that just left him out of shape to then be attacked by Perez. VSC did help him out. I've already given my views on, you know, that strategy and how that helps out.

I think he was fine on the Sunday, but, but nothing better than fine. Just to look at that first corner incident, we saw Vestappan and Bottas, side by side going into the corner, Vestappen had the inside line, and that's what allowed him to take the race lead. Sam, I'm going to be a bit naughty with this question, to be honest. A bit naughty. Given that, for Hamilton's sake, Max Verstap and DNF wouldn't have been the worst thing in the world, should Valtry have just kept going and then if a crash happened, that was your fault, Max? Could that have been something that Mercedes talked about prior to the race?

Oh, Ben, you're a naughty, gaudy boy. I am indeed. Funny enough, I was I was alone in the house at the start of the race and I even said to myself while I was making a cup of tea

out loud, yes I talked to myself I said wouldn't be shocked if Mercedes have in the background said to Valtry if you go wheel to wheel with Max and it looks a little bit you know oh not sure what's going to happen here keep your footing it

if you two come together then you two come together we don't mind I would not be shocked if that's being said quietly somewhere you know, back of a car, on the churning out of a race weekend or something like that, would not be shocked. I think Vowdhry Bottas is a very good team player for the most part. 95% of the time, he really likes to help the team along.

We've seen a couple of weird moments like that one in Spain where he decided to challenge Hamilton for about three seconds and then backed out of it again, whatever it was. But for the most part, he's very well behaved. Do I think that he would purposefully fake a... I've kept my foot in it and I've taken Max for stepping off. What a shame. It was definitely an accident.

Moment? No, I don't. I don't. I think Valtrey Botas as much as he desperately wants to win. I don't think he would go to that extent. I don't think Valtry ever want to purposefully cause a crash. And also, it's not for his own championship.

So I don't think he cares enough to put that reputation on the line. If they said to him, Valtry, if you win this race or if you don't score points of maximum, score points of this race, you could be world champion. He might think about an accidental slip of the throttle that means he goes straight into the staffing on that corner.

I don't know. But in this instance, it may have been asked for, I believe there might have been a conversation. We can ever prove it. We don't know. But I don't think Valtrow ever go ahead with it. Let's face it, folks. He is the greatest driver of all time.

And he's just so gracious. He wouldn't ever let that happen. Yeah, fair point. Fair point. Harry, what are your thoughts on this? do you think that Valtry Bostas had grounds to be more aggressive than usual into turn 1, knowing that the effect of a crash would probably be worse for Stappan's chances in the championship versus Hamilton's? He definitely has grounds for it, but I think, you know, what happened was, I think,

what happened on track at turn 1 was kind of evidence of where Bottas is as a driver slash position in the team. I don't think he wants to... I don't think he's that sort of driver anyway. We've already said he's quite a conservative driver doesn't tend to get his elbows out. And I think it goes both ways, whether he's on the offensive or defensive. He's not the sort of driver who crashes with other cars.

He sometimes bins it in Kuali. But in the races in general, he doesn't tend to get in scraps with other cars. So I just don't think it's in his DNA to have an accident with Vostappan and you know it risks i know it would take Vastappan out but it risk taking botas out as well and and from a constructor's point of view is that is that one Mercedes wants so yeah i don't think it i don't think it's in his in his DNA yeah i don't think i think you're right it's not in his DNA to intentionally take anyone out and i don't think for a second that he

ever would do that i think my my question was more on the lines of you know could he get away with being more aggressive, knowing that Vastappan can't afford contact, whereas Bottas can. And I said earlier in the year in terms of the decision to take Russell instead of Bottas for 2022, I completely agree with it. But the timing of it, I said that at that time, they should leave this until the end of the season. So Valtry Bottas has got everything to fight for right up until the end. You could argue that his performances as of late have been stronger as a result of that confidence of being at Alfa Romeo next year. Maybe, maybe not. But if he still had something to fight for at this point in the year,

would his approach to turn one have been more aggressive? I think there's a chance that it would have been. Because, you know, if there had been a crash at that point, not saying that Bottas would have done it intentionally, if there had been a crash, you could just go back and say, well, actually, Maxwell Stappen has done what he usually does at turn one and taken the space out of anyone else's line,

can, you know, you shrug your shoulders and say, well, that can happen. If you're willing to do that and you're willing to take the move aside or we crash, if you go with a don't move aside, then you crash, then kind of, have you got any defence? I think based on Bartas's demeanour, I don't think. He's never been too aggressive in any aspect of the race, really. So I'm not surprised to see that this was the case. But like you, Sam, I wouldn't be surprised if there was a conversation beforehand just to say,

you know if you keep your foot in there if you if you keep side by side with him he need you know he's more likely to relent here because he's got more to lose than than you do maybe that discussion took place maybe it didn't i think then we'll finish off the show here uh but the shows don't stop we've got another preview episode coming midweek third of the triple header sam until then i'll let you get us out of here they just keep coming and they just keep coming and they just keep coming and they just keep coming and they just keep coming that was a smash mouth meme reference there folks folks it's what a crazy weekend of racing we've had and we've been really treated this season and this race was spectacular let's hope the last three are just as good and we see some craziness going on if you want to carry on that conversation

if you're going to be more involved in the f1 world you want to hear what we've got to say and join in those debates, make sure you tune in for the preview of the Catarian Grand Prix. Is it Qatar? Catarian, Ben. You know these things. Katarian doesn't sound right, but I'll let you go with it. I quite like it. The Grand Prix of Qatar. We've got a preview coming in a week, and of course we'll be here for the review.

We'll always be live on Twitter as well, at Elbreaking. And join the Discord. It's down in the description. In the meantime, I've been Samuel Seed. I've been Ben Hocking. And I've been Harry Eve. And remember, keep breaking late. Bring on the wall! Find more great shows or join the team at sport-ssocial.com.

Cast is part of the Sport Social Podcast Network.